Green Light with Chris Long - DESEAN JACKSON! DAN QUINN! DeSean's NFL Career, Commanders 2025 Outlook + Aaron Rodgers to Pittsburgh!

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Double feature Tuesday! We've got two great guests and plenty of the fellas from GLP! Chris kicks things off reacting to Aaron Rodgers signing with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Then Chris catches up with Dan Quinn to talk about Jayden Daniels, the Washington Commanders and Dan's early days coaching DLine. We then throw it back to last week with Chris and Beau hosting their former teammate DeSean Jackson to cover DeSean's NFL career and his new career as head coach of the Delaware State University Hornets! (00:00:00) Intro (00:02:47) Chris reacts to Aaron Rodgers signing in Pittsburgh (00:19:30) Dan Quinn on the Washington Commanders, Jayden Daniels and DEFENSE (00:50:20) DeSean Jackson On Coaching College Football, Relationship with Michael Vick & NFL Career Make sure to pre-order Madden 26 at the link below. https://www.ea.com/games/bundles/mvp-bundle/buy Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ Also, check out our paddling partners at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Appomattox River Company ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. Green Light's ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where you can catch all the latest GL action: Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the back of Gino's Stakes with a Philly legend and now a head ball coach. DeShon Jackson. What up, dude? So my boy, man. Say you got a bad-ass receiver who's scoring a bunch of touchdowns and let's say he wants to back pedal into the end zone from the 20-heart line. What are you doing? Dawkins came on the sideline and he was like, if you freaking bumble again, I'm like, damn, I'm my bad, I didn't try to fumble. Matt was a dog, bro. I think he don't get enough credit. I agree. He's a top 10 quarterback, I think for sure, bro.

Who threw the ball that would hurt your hand? Mike, I'm like, Mike, I'm right here. Like, you ain't got to throw it that hard. He is a stone cold, get after a killer. Adam knew certainly before any of us, and he knew it right away, man. He was the first player we evaluated together. To get somebody on the team, you know, of Laramese, caliber, like, that was a big deal for us. Same thing, you know, with Debo.

Welcome to the Greenlight podcast presented by BetMGM. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use Bonus Code Greenlight, and you'll get up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your. first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code Greenlight. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. If that bet loses, you will receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets. Just make sure you use bonus code Greenlight when you sign up. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast. It is double feature Tuesday. We've got two great guests for you today. Dan Quinn Head Coach of the Washington Commanders. He talks with Chris. They talk

Jaden Daniels, Laramie Tunzel, the commander's defense, and Dan's love of coaching the D-Line. And then it's Deshawn Jackson, D-Jack's, former Eagle Great and teammate of both Chris Long and Bo Allen. Bo jumps back on for this interview. This is another one handled in the back of Gino's stakes. And the fellas talk all about Deshawn's upcoming season as coach of Delaware State University, his NFL career, and why he is uniquely suited to coach these young men. To kick things off, Chris talks to Aaron Rogers that deal he signed with Pittsburgh Steelers and what it could mean for the Steelers in the 2025 NFL season. Enjoy it.

Have a blast and a half. We'll catch you later this week with a few great guests. Aaron Rogers signs with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Listen, that happened last week, like right after we finished recording. Usually I would rush back in and record something, but like what is there to say? I mean, of course I say that, and now I'm going to give it a shot. Listen, it's another team taking a stab at a legendary quarterback that's past his prime, and I don't think he would argue with that in his 40s. I mean, like coming off of an Achilles two years ago, which I think, like, if you're speculating, what is the good version of this signing look like? It's him having a lot more mobility, right? Because I don't think he had it last year. It was pretty clear to me that he

wasn't comfortable and physically not capable of being the guy we saw in Green Bay for the longest time. So, like, as somebody who really enjoyed watching him play when he was at the top of his game, it would be fun to see him look like the old Aaron. And there were times last year where he looked like the old Aaron Rogers, like he really did. But the little moments were brief. You know you could see it and i'd be like damn dude like it's still there like that arm still works right we talked about that a lot last year but i just worry about the wear and tear on the body the age um and sure like there is more of a precedent and i'm sure this goes into it is like saying hey a guy first year off achilles is going to look a lot worse than the second year off achilles but

we don't have a huge sample size of guys 41 42 years old off an achilles right like we build this sample size and it's um it's a sunny forecast for a guy if he were 30 31 years old 27 28 years old like I don't know what it will look like um he's one of the best to ever throw the football so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt like right but but I don't know that this signing is going to help them win the division like that's just not something I see happening this year if they do that I would be surprised and I would wear it right like here I am June 9th. Like there's a lot of football that has to be played.

There's a lot of training camp. There's a lot of, there's a mini camp. You know, he hasn't been with the team. You know, he's been going through some personal stuff, I guess. So it's probably a good time for him to take his time. But, you know, not for nothing. In the past, we kind of put a magnifying glass over this. Like, hey, did he get enough time with his receivers thing?

And I don't think it's the best group around him. I don't know that you'd meet too many football fans. that would say, hey, listen, I think there was a major upgrade moving from Pittsburgh to or moving from New York to Pittsburgh. Like, I don't know that this offense is much better, right? I do think having a serious offensive coordinator is a good look, right? Arthur Smith is the real deal. Although I don't know that his preference when it comes to calling plays is a perfect fit for Aaron.

Like, right, like a lot of outside zone, a lot of play action. Nolan and I were talking about this. It's hard to imagine him fully unlocking the potential of an offense that has, it's been termed as an offense that wants to be run first, right? So how are they going to get to that stuff? And I don't think the tackle plays fantastic. Like, young players, they could take a big jump year two and three, right? Broderick Jones, Fattano.

Yeah. You know, we didn't see much of Fattano last year, right, because of an injury. I think the strength this offensive line is inside. And that's probably good news for a guy like Aaron Rogers, right? Like, you've got to be able to climb the pocket. And I don't know that he always could do that in New York. So, you know, there is a universe that exists where, hell, he gets a lot healthier and looks a lot like the guy from two, three years ago.

And that's the thing that's confounding, I guess, if you're making a decision for Mike Tomlin. You know, and for the Steelers like, hey, number one, we're the Pittsburgh Steelers. we got to put asses in seats right like any organization feels that way but i feel like the steelers especially have to feel that way like i think they can read the room and maybe they read it incorrectly because there were always going to be some people that didn't like you bring it in and erin rogers but like read the room your fans are tired of this this qb carousel thing with half-ass names um and that's no shade towards a 34 year old or 35 year old russell wilson or however old he is or Justin Fields trying to, trying to, you know,

develop him into somebody, right? Like, Mason Rudolph's of the world, like the, who was the guy named Duck they had a couple years ago? Duck Hodges. Like, who could forget? Like, they have been on a wild ride since Big Ben. And I think seeing the forest through the trees here, like, there was a long spell where they didn't have their franchise quarterback, like truly, like,

you know, elite franchise quarterback from Terry Bradshaw to Ben Rathesberger. Like there were a lot of years in there where that great organization was trying to find the guy, right? And I know they had some good quarterbacks, but they're in the process of doing that again. And it really hasn't been when you zoom out. It hasn't been that long a time, right? But for Steelers fans who are used to, you know, XYZ, it has not looked that way since Ben. And even in the latter years of Ben, like at times, they look like limited offensively. They're looking for that guy. And I think, like, if you know what the gamble's about, it's like, hey, maybe we can, we can take a stab at this thing.

And Rogers for a year will look like the guy from two, three years ago. I hate to do a big 180 from what I said last time I talked about the Steelers. I thought they were offloading pieces. I thought they were preparing for next year. I still think there is like, there is a reality in that building that's like, hey, this year might not be the year. Next year is the year. Next year we've got a ton of picks. you know and some of those we can package up to move move up in the draft you know if things go the way

you want them to go this year like rogers wins you 10 11 games like you're not going to be picking in a premium spot but then you have to look at like who's actually after a franchise quarterback next year and maybe the line's not as long as in years past right um because there are a lot of young quarterbacks that that currently organizations are investing in right like Bryce young's rebounded Houston's found their guy. You know, Trevor Lawrence is, he's got a second chance here. You know, we go up and down the league, like Caleb Williams in Chicago, they're not going to be looking for a quarterback.

Detroit's going to be too good. Minnesota is given JJ McCarthy a shot. Like, look around the league. I'm just bouncing around. Like, maybe their thought is, hey, there won't be a lot of people to jump in line, you know, if we need to make that play. say that's accurate, Nolan. I have kind of a pop quiz here. No, I absolutely think that's accurate. And I also think, like anytime I'm thinking about QBs in the league and teams that need them,

I come back to what DJ said on the show before the draft, especially if you're an AFC team, when you're evaluating your options of quarterback, if you don't see a ceiling that's Mahomes, Lamar, Josh, Burrow, what's the point? Like, you know, as far as like, you know, warging in the future for that player investing in that player. So for them, you know, the Steelers, this is, you know, it's a one-year deal for a reason. I wonder who those teams that, you know, in a year are going to be picking high in the draft and needing a quarterback. Like it is hard for me to figure. I mean, like you could be looking at Cleveland. You could be looking at a team like that. Maybe New Orleans, see how it goes with their situation this year. You know, the job.

Giants, you just never know how quickly they've moved from, you know, taking a guy in the first round. The Jets, we'll see how it goes with fields. There are some, but I think you're right. I think it's probably not as many, and maybe not as many as it sounds, or relative to the depth of what it sounds like this quarterback class could be in 26. Yeah, I mean, it's never too early to look at a 2006 mock draft. No.

And what I'm seeing here is you've got to be. the you got the saints the jets um possibly the raiders possibly the colts like so to uh to tankathon dot com's point there's always somebody popping up who's going to need a quarterback um and that and that's a pretty it's not a quarterback heavy draft from a needs perspective as we pointed out but there are some teams you might have to leapfrog but but you could do it right you know so i I'm not saying, what I don't want to get caught up in saying is like, signing Rogers eliminates the opportunity of getting your guy next year. They got a ton of capital, right?

They could package something. But it does make things harder. You know, conceivably it makes things harder. If things go well, I don't think this is a Super Bowl team. Like, I don't think the, I'm, here's a spoiler alert. I'm not going to be putting the Steelers in the Super Bowl. If they get there, what a story that would be, right? Um, so I guess what I'm trying to say is, uh, success for them is fun.

It puts asses in seats. Roger Goodell is probably happy. It's competitive. It's good for, for the NFL. But it's not getting you any closer to the future. Right. Um, unless you believe that just having success prepares the next crop of players in, in your organization for the building process with a new guy.

I mean, there's also the question of like, if Roger, looks really good like are you like let me bring him back or is there just an age with quarterbacks where you're like hey not everybody's Tom Brady so there's a lot to think about I think one of them is like hey if you're Aaron Rogers listen I know he's got beliefs I know he has things you know off the field that he likes to express himself on and so did I when I played like I just didn't have his bigger platform like and it's been polarizing he's going to talk, he's going to speak his mind. But more than anything, just be there with your teammates and finish on a high note in that respect. I mean, like, he's got mini camp, he's got training

camp, like get on the same page. I'm sure that's the aim. And hopefully, you know, at least on the field, we can see Rogers having fun and his teammates having fun and see some of the things that really made him so magnetic as a quarterback for the Packers, some of the rare throws that he can still make. I think lately he hasn't been as much of a chance taker, right? Like the ball's going to be out quick and that sort of thing. Again, we talked about play action pass the way it might look, how to get to those outside zone schemes with the play action looks off of them. For a guy like that, there are ways, but it's not perfect. You know, D.K. Metcalf thing, he's not like on a scale of wide receivers, the most dialed in on landmarks.

and the specificity of where you want this route broken off. And you just think about all the back and forth that I used to watch with Seahawks quarterbacks and D.K. And it always felt like maybe somebody was on the wrong page. That's a thing that's been a sticking point for a quarterback who likes to do things his way and likes guys to get on his page. I mean, when you're as good as Aaron Rogers and you're used to having a great rapport with guys like Randall Cobb or Lazard or in the past Devante Adams, like it can feel it can feel probably like fuck dude like i don't have time for this shit but you're going to have to opt into that situation um and you know if dk mccaff's not running on the red line on the right side of the red line like which that could come up right i would just say as an

analyst and as a former football player i'd love to see those things being handled in-house like i think if you're a steelers fan that's what you want to see and i'm not going to get up here and say this is how Rogers should do his job because I know better. Fuck, half the player he ever was. But what I am telling you is, as a teammate, I see how that stuff comes across. And I think for Rogers, he's got a great opportunity to walk into a building with a lot of history and a coach that's a strong personality. I think it could be a really good marriage if he just concedes a little bit, you know, and just gets back to probably what made him good when he was young, which is like have that young player mindset. So I'm interested.

It's one year, 19 and a half with incentives, 10 million guaranteed. So not a huge commitment, but a big name. And so, like, if it's not Aaron Rogers, we'd probably be analyzing this, like, hey, there's this quarterback who was fantastic back in the day, but he's a bridge now. He's a vet. We're rolling the dice in this guy, a la Matt Ryan or Philip Rivers. I don't put it in the context of, like, Tom Brady coming to Tampa, obviously. You know, this is a different deal. And the returns could be very similar.

These things don't always work. You know, Kirk Cousins last year in Atlanta. Like, the list goes on. There's a lot of these instances where older, really good to great quarterbacks, in Rogers case, legendary quarterbacks, like they don't work out. You know, but Steelers got to take that chance.

Fuck, I can respect it. Hey, being a football player, you always want your team to, and I usually try to stay consistent on this. My analyst hat says, hey, punt for a year, nothing wrong with picking high, right? Like, this is part of the process. But my teammate hat says, my football player hat says, like, let's try to win. So if I'm a stealer, I'm happy you're trying. And let's not forget, they've got Will Howard, who, I don't know how he's going to look as a pro,

and they've got Mason Rudolph, who's played before. I wonder what the TV is going to be tuned to in the quarterback room. I think I have an idea. But it's going to be interesting. It's going to be interesting. Two years from now is the year. Not this year, in my belief. Two years from not.

This year could be interesting, fun. You know, my prediction is, hey, listen, it's tough sledding in that division. and I don't think they got good enough around him where they're like serious players in the AFC. But if they become serious players in the AFC, hey, a lot of fun the floor with this team is 500 every year. Right. And, you know, not for nothing, third option, as reported by Shephti.

Sheffty says, hey, they wanted Matt Stafford. They even preferred considering Justin Fields, a guy who they went away from last year before they considered Rod. So I don't know exactly what to make of it. It seems like it took some thinking around for the group and probably for Rogers. And I'll just say this. You can say a lot of things about Aaron Rogers, but he definitely loves football because there's no way that when you're getting into this stage of your career where you've done everything, your third option for a new team that's not incredibly talented on the offensive side of the ball and you want to go play for him.

I mean, he's got enough money, he's got enough accomplishments. The guy obviously loves ball. And so I hope, as a football fan and somebody who does this for a living, that it is, it's fun to watch. And I hope he has fun. And I hope his teammates have fun. And I hope we don't see some of the stuff that we saw last year that it feels like we're growing accustomed to seeing,

where it's like it's about anything but the ball. And I'm not talking about getting on a podcast and talking about what you think. I'm talking about getting on a podcast and talking about the people in the building. Because I don't think Tomlin's going to like that as much, right? Right. Anyways, that's news, the news.

Aaron Rogers to Pittsburgh, and I'm a couple days late, but, you know, I had some shit to do the other day. So, oh, Jerry Alexander, let go by the Packers. He's from Charlotte. something to think about. So here's a great interview with Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn is awesome.

I love Dan Quinn in 2015 or whenever I got cut by the Rams and was looking for a new place. That was one of the places I looked really hard at. Atlanta and New England, I've talked about this before in the pod, but like getting down there and visiting the Falcons, if it wasn't for the traffic in that city, you know, in the fact that, well, and Dan and I don't talk about this in the interview, but Dan wanted me to be his Michael Bennett. That was the wording he used, as in, like, play a lot of four-eye.

And I was at an age where I was like, you know, I kind of, at this point, I should probably get outside. So I signed with the Patriots to be an outside linebacker and got moved to three technique about a month into the season. And that's how it went down. And, you know, like in the Super Bowl, down 20, to that group and I'm like fuck I should have listened to Dan Quinn huh but I just I love being down there and visiting him and visiting the Falcons and just the energy they had in that building like

that guy's all about energy he's all about competition all the guys from Seattle who I'm I'm good buddies with with at least one of them and you know I I still talk to Cliff Averill and those guys listen they loved him everybody loves Dan Quinn if you play for Dan Quinn you love him he's like like a player. And if you're a D-Lyman, he's a, he's a, he's the rare successful coach that comes from the D-Line room, right? There's just not a lot of guys that put D-Lyman first as they ascend through the ranks. He never forgot where he came from. He wears that personality on his sleeve. And he's all about competition. He has people in there shooting baskets to start the, the day. He was a perfect, he was honestly a perfect match for people. He was a perfect match for

Pete Carroll and those groups were, those groups were hell to deal with. And it started with him. And now you saw it last year in Washington. Listen, I did not think that they were going to be as good defensively as ended up being like competitive, disruptive. We talk about that. A lot of the stuff he got out of guys like Armstrong Fowler, they had their best years in a long time, right? If not ever. So very, very excited to have Dan on the show. You'll enjoy the interview. And Eagles fans, like, you just got to deal with it. Like, the commanders are good right now.

We're going to have some commanders' guests. It just is what it is. You know, like, hard not to like this guy, even if you're a bird's fan. You've got to respect Dan Quinn. Oh, and don't forget, after Dan Quinn, we got Deshawn Jackson. See?

Give you a commander's guy. They'll give you an eagle. All right. Here he is. All right, this is a treat. one of my favorite coaches in the NFL guy that, man, I almost played for him. We talked for a while. Coach Dan Quinn, coach, how you doing? Man, it's good to see you, dude. It's going good, man. We're having a blast up here. I'm not too far from you right now. That's right. From Charlottesville

here up into Ashburn. But it's going cool, man. Good vibe with the crew here and just getting ready to get rocking with our mini camp. Well, I got to say, growing up in Virginia, I'm on various group texts with about a combined 50 Washington fans, and they let me know it all the time. I thought their vibes, speaking of vibes, was really high this year. Does it feel like, was there any moment last year knowing Washington football recent history where you're like, you look up in the stands and you're saying, hey, we haven't done it yet, but it does feel like we're moving in the right direction because the buzz around that team was, you had to feel it up there.

Yeah, it's a lot of emotions. I would say, one, like for me, like I grew up in New Jersey. So it grew up, like, loving football about the NFC East, and it was the Giants and Eagles and Redskins and Cowboys. And it was like it was always on on Sunday afternoon, you know, like those games, those matchups. So I can remember it well. And I knew the fan base here, what it was like.

And I knew coming here with Adam, like, this had one time been one of the crown jewels of the NFL. And then sitting through games where there's half the crew at the stadium is in the other colors. It was like shit. And I say the last game, Chris, the last game we played the Falcons on a Sunday night. And although losing at halftime, running in like feeling a stadium's energy and then to win in overtime, that was the one to make it feel like I remember how important the fan base is to this organization and vice versa. So it was in that night all the way towards the end. There was a couple moments that were good, but there had always been a couple of games like,

damn, this is damn, they're 50%. But it was in that moment that I was like, this is cool, man. This is the fan base that I knew was here. And so that was a really cool night. Yeah, you've coached some places where they get it loud. Yep. You know, Seattle, Atlanta, not to mention Dallas when it's rocking. You know, I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, but this place feels like it can be a different kind of rowdy.

Yeah. And in D.C., it's cool, man. Like living around here, it never gets old seeing like the monuments and the Capitol and that. And then on those times in that game to feel like the importance of this franchise again in the NFL, it meant something. I still remember leaving Dallas and Jerry Jones saying how important, you know, the organization was to the NFL. And that spoke to me from all the way back into the 30s to one of the old heavy hitters in the NFL as the Redskins and now commanders. And like that carried weight with me knowing that like, you know, this has been one of the crown jewels. And it's been cool reaching back out to like, you know, a lot of conversations with Coach Gibbs and some of the old players that were here. Wow. Doug Williams is here. And so it's cool, man. Like to know where you want to go, you also need to know like where you've been a little bit.

And so no question. I see the Darrell Green. I see the Doug Williams on the wall back there. That's awesome. Yeah. Like those two are like absolute heavy hitters, man, in our game. And I wanted to get to know them. and what made them different.

That's awesome. Well, you know, look no further than the schedule. You know, when the schedule comes out and I see, what, five primetime games, that to me says, well, you guys got to go out and replicate it and earn it, obviously. Yep. It's a new era. Yeah. When it comes to the expectations placed upon your team on national stage,

I mean, that to me says the world wants to see y'all play football. How do you get your team prepared to be the hunted, right? compared to what you were last year, which is, hey, we're going to surprise some people. Yeah, and I think it's exactly where you want to be. After from you playing and for me coaching, they've had times when you were and times when you're not. And so you have, you want to be in that space, man. That's like the type of team and energy that we damn sure want. We want to take the approach of the hunters.

As you said, like, we haven't won anything more. So, you know, we had a good season, postseason, one, two, lost one. So we got a lot to prove and a lot to, you know, see where we can level up on. Good news. It's a really cool crew here, Chris, of players. The locker room, the players, the standards, our guys, like, all the way down, you know, through the special teams crew of like we covered more kickoffs than anybody. That was also part of our identity, man.

Like, we're going to run. We're going to hit. You know, we're going to be about it. And so it was cool to see that begin to come to life. we feel like we've got a long way to go in terms of that, but like the steps we're taking. Is it a lot less stressful? I mean, football is stressful no matter what sometimes,

but there's a lot less stressful when you enter an offseason and say, hey, we have our guy. Yes. Right. You know, the kid's amazing. I know there's going to be a, well, he's got to do it again and that sort of thing, but you can see it right off the bat. Does that help you just, hey, we're going to go hit this position,

we're going to adapt to this premium position. We don't have to worry about the biggest thing. Yeah, and it was evident, man. He's got a really cool blend of confidence and humility. So he can vibe with the teammates in the same way, but like he is a stone cold, like get after a killer in terms of the preparation and what to do and how to go after it. And so, yeah, to help surround him, you know,

with other players and adding some pieces to that, that's a big deal. You know, firsthand what that's like when you got the right guy, you know, behind center. and all that can mean. And we, for damn sure, do no flinch in this guy. Like, he's a real dude, Chris. Yeah, and Zach Gert said he might be the fastest player on the field sometimes. That was something that blew me.

I was like, wow, the stride on this guy and all those got-to-have-it situations. You talk about like the end of the bucks game in the playoffs comes down to, I think you were in the high red. And he pulls one. And it's just, it's a nightmare. I see this all the time. I'd hate to be playing left end against that guy. Yeah, because the play that went in the huddle and the play that gets resulted, they ain't always the same thing. And, you know, like, good play.

And it's cool to see what can happen. And that's part of the evolution for him, too. Early on, it was pull it down just to run. Right. And then it really evolved to remaining a passer. There's explosives that come that way too. Then they want to stay back, go and attack. And so it was good to see, like, early on, got out of the pocket to run.

then it turned into, got out of the pocket to extend and more explosives that could come. So a little bit of both with him. But yeah, he puts it in, man. How did you in conjunction with the GM and the owner know he was the guy? And then when was it confirmed that you were right? Like was there a moment, whether it was in, you know, minicamp or camp or during the season where you were like, yep, we got him? Adam knew the GM, Adam knew before, certainly before any of us. And he knew it right away, man.

He was the first player we evaluated together. And so as we were going through an LSU game, he said, hold on, let me show you something and went back to him at ASU against Oregon as a true freshman. And he was definitely the number one player on our board for a reason. And, but it was definitely Adam, man. Like, he was the one. He knew it. It was a cool concept to go through and evaluate all the other quarterbacks.

You know, we went out to L.A. We went to Michigan. We were down in North Carolina, down to Baton Rouge. You're there for a few days. And so I had never gone through that, you know, during my time in Atlanta. Matt was there the whole time. And Dak, obviously, I was coaching on, in Dallas. I was coaching on defense, but Dak was there the whole time.

So it was my first real experience of, like, the whole process all the way through. And after watching the tape and then being around him down in Baton Rouge and then here, yeah, it was pretty clear like this is a real. Yeah, no question. And I mean, you say it was your first time doing the direct quarterback analysis, getting ready to pick a guy. But one thing I'm sure you're no stranger to is as a D-Line guy looking at the offensive lineman and saying, hey, I like that guy. Or, you know, I've watched a lot of tape on Tunsell or whoever it is that you bring in. Starting with Laramie Tunsell, what was the reaction when you tell Cliff or Jaden, hey, we're going to get Tunsel? Yeah, I remember I had called Jaden.

I said, man, I love you. You know who really, really loves you? Adam. And we laughed because to get, you know, somebody on the team, you know, of Laramie's caliber, like that was a big deal for us. And, you know, same thing, you know, with Debo. And so to have an opportunity to add two heavy hitters, you know, to a strong crew, that was really important to us. So adding that, that was a big deal. And so not just the length and size of Laramie, but it's the feet, man.

And that's what makes him, you know, so challenging to go against. But you're right. You and me probably know the O line as well as anybody else because it's studying this guy and this guy and this guy. And so going against him when you played against them, whether it was that, you know, Houston or at Miami, you know, finding ways to beat this person, you know, like the tape was really, really short. Right. Right.

Yeah. I imagine you're not scheming that side up too much. Yes. You're not wasting your good stuff on them. Yeah. And so those were the ones I can remember, like way back, you know, in the old NFC West back in your early days, like, I don't think that you and Walter Jones were ever in the same time. Jones was early in my tenure there.

You ever play against him? I didn't. But if you remember James Hall, he was in edge Russia, he was like big brother to me. But when I'd ask him, I said, who was the best ever? He was like, it's Walter. Yeah, like, they didn't even know what like a chip was, you know? I was like, no, no, no.

But it was like, there's certain matchups that it's like, man, this ain't a great one for us. Yeah, you can erase a guy. I mean, and by the way, not for nothing, Walter Jones, one of the nicest people I ever met. Yes. And it was just like one of the best offensive tackles, I think. I was coaching D-Lyline during the whole time.

And like I said, a tape to see how to beat him. It better be on a stunt. It better be, you better have a great get-off. You better have something because it wasn't going to be much. That's exactly right. Guys with that good of technique, Zach Martin was that way in Dallas, man. Like he was always in control, Chris, like just in control in the right spot. He didn't overset.

He didn't make mistakes. And those sometimes are the hardest guys to beat. They just don't give you anything. No question. Well, not just Tunsell. You got a young draft pick in a, Conner Lee and, you know, obviously the Cosmianjury popped up at a tough time last year. I think it's, you know, probably instructive, and you already know this, but like you can never

have enough guys up there. And it feels like you have a surplus now. I don't want to forget about Coleman, who I thought did a really nice job last year and probably has some versatility. What do you see in his future? We're going to move him inside to Garp. Great. And he had experienced at both at TCU playing inside and outside.

We're going to keep him on the left side. And, but as you men, like screens and getting out and downfield. And when you create space on defense like we do with our offense and no huddle and spread it out, like the linemen who can get to the second level and get on people and stay on people, like Brandon Coleman can do that. He's got the quickness, Chris, of a tackle, but the size of a big guy. And so for your listeners and you know this, sometimes the best athletes or the outside guys, but they're not the biggest.

and then the strongest guys usually inside. And so in this offense, having guys that can get to the next level of talking about Cosmi and Brandon Coleman and those at guard, that's a big deal. Well, I mean, it's a great segue into talking about Cliff because I think one of the things y'all did such a great job of last year is you made people defend the entire field. Yeah. You know, with some of those looks outside, I mean, it's stressful to watch. You know, even as an edge guy, imagine having to plant my foot and run.

Yep. times a game. Was that really the calling card that you imagine Cliff would have? I thought he did a great job last year. Yep, I did. And coaching against him, it was always challenging. There were tempo issues that you had to be ready for, you know, personnel groups and splitting out into empty, the ability for the quarterback, you know, whether it was just a quarterback draw. I can remember that with Kyler and spreading everybody out and trying to game up the front to stop them. then the second play begins, you know, and the quarterback out on the edge.

But it's the ability to get back on the line, get going quickly. We run a lot of no huddle snap. So I like being different in that way that no one else does it to that amount of times. So I think sometimes being on the front end of things that are different, that's a good thing. Yeah, no question. Is there a consideration with your defense when you do go a lot of tempo to say,

hey, guys, you got to be ready. Not all these possessions are going to go 10 minutes. Yeah. And what we try to do is see if we can go, we roll big crew, number one. And then offensively, even though we're no huddle, we're usually at our best if completions and runs, they're 55 and over. So if we're getting to that space, we may still be no huddle, but now it's a 10th play, an 11th play, a 12th play, and a drive.

And if we're doing those, and we go forward on fourth as well, so. Yeah. And some of that's due to Jaden, but also knowing, like, we want to keep the peasant. down on the people. And so those are some ways I try to combat it. Chris, I think if you were so conservative and did no huddle, it would really, really tax your defense. Right. You better have some boldness to go on fourths. You better have some boldness to make sure you can stay in the fight so the defense isn't on the field the whole time. No question. Yeah, that's really. You're going to think of it like in both ways, man. Otherwise, you could really get yourself out of whack.

No question. I don't think people at home are always thinking about that balance. but obviously y'all are as the people design and the MO there. Debo's edition, I think as a defender, again, like, I know how much time he creates for opposing defenses spending in the film room, alignment, versatility, focus on tackling, like, extra practice, extra meetings. Just from that standpoint, I mean, that's got to be a great perk to know you have a guy like that that creates a lot of stress. for an opposing defense.

Yeah. And as you're talking about with Laramie, like first hand saw it, you know, with Debo, whether it's a catch and run play on a screen, a shot play on a deep over, or him honestly being into the backfield. And now you want to match people, are you going to want to really, you know, put a smaller player inside when he's into the backfield? So going in, it was an easy fit in terms of how we would feature him in some packages, whether it's two backs or three.

backs or um no backs and he's a back so like all of those things can kind of add just difficult matchups and uh the hardest one honestly isn't like gardener tackling him like he's fast but like he brings it man and so like you better have your tackling right yeah he he uh he he he's what's he listed at like 220 or so i don't know how much he actually weighs but like he he he he appears to be about 250 with the ball in his hand. Yeah. With the ball in the hand, he definitely is bigger. I don't know how you explain that. I don't know how to explain it.

Almost like 20 pounds. Yeah, exactly. The strength in his lower body, man, like when he puts his foot in the ground, there's like an explosiveness that you feel and that gets generated. And so in this offense, you know, we're trying to get guys out in space and making plays.

And so he's really applied himself this offseason to make sure you could know it and learn it and really let it rip where you don't want to have to take those weeks to get to feel comfortable. So that's right. You put that pressure on yourself to really get it down. You know, we talked about one, one group that you guys added to.

I also think the secondary, it seems like you really attack there. Trey Amos at Ole Miss, you seem to have a type coach when it comes to corners. Yep. Lank, physicality, right? Ball skills. He seems to have those things. And versus how much how much of that is because of your experience or did you come into the league liking those kind of corners? Or was it like, hey, my time in Seattle, it's just, you know, or here or there.

Yeah. No, it wasn't that way, man. Like when I first came in from college into the NFL, everybody just kind of like, think of yourself, like, you were in a three, four, and you were playing over a tackle. And like, you could have been rushing the whole time, you know. But it was like, this is how we play and this how you do things. And then it probably was like during my first in the NFL, Chris, I was at the Niners, Bill Walsh was just finishing up, like, as a GM and then a consultant.

It was like, what unique things does a player do? And how would you feature them? And that, like, left such an impression on me that if you found out what they could do and then put them into those spots, that to me is, you know, the best way to do it. And in fact, we signed another one of your older teammates, Dietrich Wiles. Yeah, I like him. to be an inside guy to play some of the base techniques that he had played and been familiar with in New England.

Not to say we wouldn't play him in and penetrate him up, but we're going to try to feature him into the things that make him that strong, that heavy-handed and allow him to be in those spaces. So it was started early because I think in college you just recruit players, you know, and like that's the end, this is a running back. So it got to be more specific as I got in the NFL in Seattle. And Pete definitely pushed me more in that spot. and then getting to be in a bigger role in that, you know,

probably over the last, you know, 10 years through Seattle and Atlanta and Dallas. And then to hear, man, it still comes back like, what's between the rib cage, bro,

like, where's the dog? And, like, what does he fight? What's the competitiveness? And when you add all those to the unique traits of somebody, then you know they're going to fit.

Like, when you bring them in the building, you already are certain and give them that belief of what they can do. And as you know, like, Leaves powerful, man, like letting somebody know what they can do and how they get down.

like that's a big deal. I got a dog for you. How about your young guy saying we're still? Yes. I'm struggling his name. Do you shorten his name in the building? Everybody calls him Mikey, so it's real easy. Mikey.

Okay, so how about Mikey, man? Because he seems like a dog and a versatile dog. Yes. What's the most impressive thing he does as a young corner? He in this season played both inside and outside. And you've seen that some with some older guys. they might change year two. We're going to play him a nickel.

When we selected him out of Michigan, I'll say a quick story about Adam. I remember leaving Michigan and telling Adam, like, we were there to work out McCarthy and saying, like, man, I really want to coach Sammore still. And I said, he was running routes on like pro day at receiver. Like legit, because he played and started at receiver there early. So I saw all these ball skills.

Like, all right, I see where this could go. And so then during the draft room, I'm like, all right, here's my guys. Like, hey, bro. Like, don't say shit. You're like, we don't want anybody to know how much you like him. So when we got him, I thought he was going to be, we play him inside only. And I knew how competitive he was. Then eventually we moved him outside too.

And he just said, man, let's put the two best guys outside. And so it was a good lesson, as you're talking about like competitors. Sometimes it doesn't matter always on what length or what size. Even though you had parameters, there's some guys that just are ready to do their thing. And Mike Sainer still was one of those. But I love the fact that he can play two spots. That, to me, adds the versatility. It allows you to sign a Jonathan Jones, who's played different spots because now.

John. Yeah, I was old teammate too. And so I like guys that, hey, man, I want to match up here. We can do it. You want to put me outside. Like, we're good with that, too. John's awesome. He was an adult as a rookie.

Yes. He was just one of those guys. I can see that. He flew his plane up here for mini camps. That should tell you, the adult. version of Jonathan Jones, his own plane. No way. Like a little Sessna? Pilot, yes. And

damn, John? Yeah, what a really cool squared away professional, yeah. Yeah, for real. You got to be squared away to be flying a plane. Brandon Cooks, he was another one that was a great pilot. Yeah. So I haven't been up with either of them, but if they asked me, those are two that I would trust. Whoa, all right, all right, all right. Hey, it's more trust than I would have, and I know Cooks a little bit, but I don't know

if I would get up. So, so D-Line, I just want to ask you about, like, I thought you and Joe did a great job last year. Joe Witt did a great job. You know, and this is no disrespect to anybody. I thought coming into the season, there weren't headliners on the outside, right? Like, and I think Fowler would tell you that. I think Armstrong would tell you that. We're not household names necessarily. I thought they played great, and obviously Fowler's in Dallas now. I thought Armstrong was great. You had a core inside, right? And so I wonder how you think about things philosophically when it comes to, hey, do I need a headliner outside? When I have that rush inside, how do you calculate kind of that mix on the defensive line? Yeah.

I want to make sure there's enough guys that have the traits to do it, Chris. You've got to be able to beat somebody to the punch. And if I know that's there, just maybe because they haven't done it, doesn't mean they can't. Right. And so there's some guys here that I think after the season's over, we're going to say, okay, that's somebody we didn't know about. But I know what I've seen out here on the practice field, where they're at, how they're going to go after it.

I liked how we featured Louvo, you know, going forward and as a blitzer and rush some. So we'll find our ways that may not always look traditional. But at the end of the day, you've got to be able to rush. And inside guys, we'll lead the way. and then we'll do it in a different way outside. But at the end of it, man, like beating guys to the punch and leading their get off and using their hands, working our stunts well.

We can do that at a good level, Chris. I think that's how we'll work. And you've coached a lot of really good defensive linemen. You guys, I'm sure, have teaching tape. Yep. Who are the guys that show up from back in the day? And if you could pair them with what you liked about what they did, whether it was like, hey, if we're showing power,

I'm showing this guy. if we're showing, you know, down the line. My, when I talk about being spoiled, like the first two teams that I coached D-Line for, the first one was the 49ers and Brian Young. And like the toughness, the standard of defensive tackle. Like from then on, it was hard to look at it. Like, well, he's good. He's not B-Y, but he's good.

So I love that, dude. But it was his ability to, like, use his quickness. You know, he wasn't 315.15. He was 290, 295. He would jump on you, man, with his quickness and really overwhelm the big guard. So it was an awakening to see you don't need to out muscle the big guys inside as a rusher. You need to win and beat him to the punch with get off and quickness and speed. And then the second person I said, another hall of him with Jason Taylor.

He had such a good knack of determining at the line of scrimmage. Now, this is a run. This is a pass. And I think for the listeners, that's what the best of the best. do. It's not the playbook, you know, like everybody plays this version of three four or four three. But like on this down, it's second and five. I know it's passed. I'm going to rush this dude like it's third and ten. And for the players that can figure that out, whether it's a three point stance, a big stagger, something that is the tell, that's to me like where the separation

begins for us. So teaching a defensive lineman, well, this is what the front's called. But if it's a pass, you should loosen up. If it's a run, you should tighten down. And like that to me is like in college, guys didn't do that a lot. And so coming into the NFL, they're like, okay, right, where's the back? You know, and so knowing calls and where people are, that's where to me the best teaching comes from. And then I love, you know, the guys that are here, Ryan Kerrigan and Darrell Tap, who've played it. Yeah.

We've got a number of guys here, man, that could have seen it through the lens of the helmet. That's important to me. That was linebacker with Ken Norton and Anthony Lins here running back and, you know, different guys, Bobby Ingram at wide receivers. I wanted to have a deep staff of guys that had like, not coach speak, like, this is how it has to go down. And I thought their experience alone could give you that. I've learned more from players than I have from coaches through my 20. 25 years in coaching because they knew where the hand had to be exactly, you know. Yeah.

The coaches could draw it on the diagram good, but people like yourself who could like actually explain, no, no, guy jumpsets. Now this is what. And like I learned how to long arm from Jason Taylor. And those like, man, they're near and dear to me, Chris, because that's who I learned the most from through D-Line. And then I can apply it into the coaching. What drills do we need to do to?

enhance that or keep working that. And so those were like some of the people that were like super impactful for me, especially early on. That's awesome. I got my Kerrigan jersey in the garage there. And then the last one for you, a quick one, fun one. Yeah. How long do you think Pete Carroll could really coach football?

What age do you think? I would say, how old is he today? I think he's 73. Yeah, I would think like into the 90s, I would think, right? Like at least. How many practical? He thinks he's like 33. So like, you got to add like not what he actually is, but what he thinks he is.

And then packs of, so I'd say into his 90s for sure, like Mr. Magoo or somebody that can still, you know, rock on. Then I would say packs of gum. I think you probably got to go by like sticks of gum because I don't ever see him with a packs. I would say. So it's just, yeah, because he's got a gum guy. Yeah. I'm thinking like 100 sticks in a game. Hoo!

If I'm going, you know, like if he's really working it, you know, like maybe it's over. overtime game, you know, there's a lot to think about. Yeah. Well, I used to, I used to enjoy, even though we didn't win a lot up there, playing against you guys every year and watching Pete chew the shit out of that gum and watching your defense fly around. So we split a bunch of games between St. Louis and Seattle, too. Yeah, we did. We split some. Sunday night games to go to the playoffs. Some bloodbaths. Yes, bro. And there was a goal line stand we had one time in St. Louis that like during the team we had, it was like, I don't know how we did it. But I appreciate you very much for coming on the show and congrats on all the success and enjoy watching you guys.

Yeah, back at you, man. And keep kicking ass. Yes, sir. All right. See you, bud. Okay, brother. So now it's Deshawn Jackson time. Listen, this interview was shot in the back of Gino's.

Check us out on YouTube if you're just listening. It's a pretty cool set. And it was fun. It was fun talking to Sean. I mean, like, again, maybe I don't know how old I am, but at this age, I'm always shocked when one of my peers is like a head coach or, you know, making their way through the coaching ladder, like being a coordinator, being a, I mean, it just trips me out, man. And somebody like Deshaun who was like at times a guy that a coach would be like, fuck, how do I control Deshaun Jackson? Right?

Like I'm trying to say this properly. Like, he's turned into a ball coach. And it was fun sitting down with him and hearing him apply the lessons he learned as a player. And always a fantastic player. And in my experience, always fucking, he used a lot of fun, dude. Deshaun was a lot of fun and a cool guy. But I just never saw him being a head coach. Like, I just wouldn't, I wouldn't imagine it.

And, you know, after sitting down and talking to him and seeing him in Philly, like, for the, for, I think it was a playoff game. he's just grown up a lot like as we all have dude and so i think it's really cool to see him um take a stab at this thing and and obviously a hell of a player and now a football coach so we want to get up and see um Delaware state play as well maybe Norfolk state that's going to be a big one the mike vic deshawn jackson bowl that'd be incredible so uh anyways here's coach to sean jackson all right i am here in the back of gino state with a Philly legend and now a head ball coach, DeShon Jackson. What up, dude? So my boy, man, that's my daughter. You know, it's crazy. We're the same drive cast. I know, man. I was looking at, I was running back through that class, man. How do you feel when you watch Callais Campbell still doing like?

Man, Callais is a monster. I played with him. My last year in Baltimore, I played with him and I'm like, he's still walking all slow, but when he get on that field, the boy, he got a motor still, man. He speeds up. He speed up, man. He speeds up. He's the last one. He's the last one. Yeah, 2008. Yeah. Anybody from your class still doing? A couple guys, yeah, a lot. We're a little younger than us. I'm a spray. I'm going to spray.

No, I was 2014, actually. So we're teammates in Tampa. Yeah. We miss each other in Philly. Sure, yeah. Missed other in Philly. Well, weren't you in Tampa when in 18? Were you in Tampa in 18?

Yeah. I think I was there 17 and 18. Because I remember we were, we just won the Super Bowl. We come back. We go down there to play. We two. And y'all were back. Yes, and you hit a bomb the first.

Yes. You know, what a shocker. Every time I played Eagles after, you know, I left in 2013, I just had to some on my edge or on my shoulder. I had to get all my chest. But, yeah, I remember that play. It was hot to sell that game. Hell yeah, dude.

Yes. I know y'all probably was. We didn't like it. Yeah, I didn't want to play that. That's major home field advantage going down there to play. They start firing the cannons. Bro, it's scary. Yeah, you're like, what the hell am I?

I don't go, I feel like my first training camp during 2017, bro. remember like it was hot as hell i'm like man i don't think i could play all here bro i literally like had like a heat stroke bro it was hell yeah dude it was bad you need some days off at that point you were and i was like i was like i was like 32 33 like i don't need to work this hard at that age i want to get into football because there's so much i'm interested in from your career but i'm super interested in the fact that now you are a headball coach sure and you know i think we saw each other at a game recently yeah congratulations sure it's it's just crazy to think that people my age are so damn responsible and i'm still so

a big kid and you are in charge of how many guys on a college team now i mean we we can up to like 105 105 years so so talk to me what's what's one thing that surprised you as being a little harder than you thought and one thing that's actually a lot more fun or easier yeah man i honestly to talk about the head coach and road like i it's surreal sometimes like i'll be thinking like man i'm really like a head coach like i was i was i was leaving a facility today and i'm driving And sometimes it just hits me out of nowhere. Like, I'm a Division I head coach. So I think for me, honestly, man, it's a blessing.

You know, it's a big responsibility. But, I mean, you know, I'm able to change a lot of young kids' futures, man, young man's futures. And, you know, for me, I know what it takes. I know what the NFL is looking for. I know the do's and don't. So, you know, I made every mistake. I wouldn't say every mistake.

I made mistakes, you know, did some great things as well, too. But I think for me, just really having a, like you said, a ball club and, you know, a group of guys that they're on, like, anything I say, it's like a drop a dime, they're going to do what I say, you know what I'm saying? So it's a big responsibility, but I will say this, man. It's a lot of fun, man. I get up every day.

I'm rejuvenated, man. It's fun because it's just like it's ball, man, you know, to go on the field and train dudes and you see them taking the stuff that you're giving them and implementing it to their game. I mean, it's a good feeling, man. Yeah, I mean, and you played with so many good head coaches. You had some head coaches that probably weren't as good. Are there things that like that? We're here.

The same team we played on, man. I couldn't stand near a cutter, man. It was like we did not get along. Yeah, I mean, we had a tough year in 2018 that year. But do you kind of take things where you em- Yeah, not that day, not week two, but you emulate certain things from head coaches. You're like, yeah, I'm going to do this the way Andy Reid did it.

Also, I'm not going to do this the way Chip Kelly did it or that kind of thing. Yeah, no, for sure. I think for me, like you said, playing for some head coaches like Andy Reid, obviously, Sean McVeigh, Rahim. I mean, I play not John Gruden, Jay Gruden, but have a great relationship with John Gruden as well, too. Like, I've learned from the best of the best. And I think one reason why I liked certain coaches

is because they understood the player. You know, they knew how to, you know, work us hard and then they knew how to pull back to it as well. So I think for me, having that side of it where you know, like, you know, you got to be strict, you got to be hard. But, you know, sometimes I find myself being hard on my players, and I'm like, here it was. I did the same things that I'm, you know, getting on them for.

So I think for me it's just really knowing I was very successful and I did it my way. But at the same time, like, I think back sometimes, like if I would have just did extra work or did things a little different, I would have been that much more or better, you know what I'm saying? So I think being in this position now, I'm able to say, like, you know, do this or do that and things that I kind of was taking a shortcut out on them.

You know, I'm like, man, if I was able to do what I did and took the shortcut out, like maybe, you know, if you guys just listen a little bit, you would be halfway as good as I was. Well, that's real. Because it's real if you can say, I wish I did this a little bit different. Sure. I think kids respect that. Yes, sir.

You know, they don't want to be bullshitted. They don't want to be like, I was perfect. Because nobody is. We all got regrets. For sure. about what do you do i i was super curious about this you got some really good say you got a badass receiver who's scoring a bunch of touchdowns and let's say he wants to back pedal into the end zone from the 20 what are you doing man you know that's that's the happy media man i'm like you know

in a sense i'm like do your thing but then i'm like don't penalize the team you know and i used to all yeah protect the football and don't penalize the team so you know i was i was a bone-haired dude yeah i made some bone-head mistakes but i mean like you say in life you know no one perfect you know you do it just don't let it happen again you know so some bonehead things I I did once I didn't repeat them but did you do a bone head twice but listen I did it when I was in high school that was the original time okay then the second time I thought I was in the end zone I just happened to drop the ball before you dropped the ball before I got the ball I got the ball you did that yeah but see the first time I flipped from like the six and thought I was going to make it

into the end zone and I dropped the ball like at one so that was a little different you know I've had that problem a lot too yeah you know it's crazy though is that you you made it look so cool and you did, you were so great as a player that I don't remember you doing that shit. Yeah, that was, so the first one was in the All-American Army game. So, that was a long time ago. Yeah, I think it was, what, 2004. Yeah, same year. So you were in there with Tommy Blake and all those guys.

Mark Sanchez. Yeah. It was a lot of dudes, man. Jake Long? Yeah, Jake Long for sure. But yeah, no, I didn't remember you dropping the ball, but I just think about like. I got the MVP, though. Why are you talking about dropping the ball?

I got the MVP still, too. It didn't drop that ball. Despite, despite dropping the ball, he got the MVP. Still got there be people. But I mean, you know what? Like, that's what's so cool is like you're the perfect guy to talk to a guy that like, you know, and I always say you'd rather say woe than sick him. Yeah. I'd rather have a guy tone it down than have to be like, hey, be more confident or be more, be more aggressive.

You know what I mean? Definitely, man. I think that was why I had to edge to my game and I had the success because, and, you know, I wasn't no big guy. Y'all, y'all dudes is huge. You know, I had to play against dudes your height. I think that kind of made. I wasn't going to come near you, I don't think. You tried a few times.

We played y'all the first. game in the season. Y'all came to Philly with St. Louis. I can't remember the dude the corner's name, but I caught a pass over. I'm like a freshman. I mean, a rookie. So we were bad.

And the, here's the, we came up there and y'all beat us probably 34-7 or something like that. Y'all had Westbrook, Trey, Dawg, Ronion. Like, just legends. McNabb, yeah, no, for sure. That's why me going to Philly, it was crazy. Like, because I didn't have to, like, wait.

Like, obviously, you know, you don't want to be disrespectful to the team to draft you, but when you go that high, you know, you're coming into a situation where you're not as good, you know what I'm saying? So for me to go second round to kind of fall a little bit and to come to a team that had guys, like you said, Legends where I instantly came into the league. I knew what it looked like. I knew what it took. And, you know, like Brian Dawkins, he used to get like, I did.

I fumbled versus Charles Tillman. He punched the game out. I fumbled way Hawkins, I mean, Dawkins came on the sideline. He was like, he don't cuss. If you freaking bummed again, like, I'm like, damn. My bad, I didn't try to fumble, but I was like, his neck. Yeah, he was, you know, he was the weapon next.

He wasn't Brian Dawkins on the foot. He turned into a whole different creature. Weapon X can cost. Brian Dawkins doesn't cut. But he never cussed though. That's what's crazy. Like, he would cuss you out without cussing you out. Yeah.

He would say, I'm disappointed in you. But a very aggressive way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Very aggressive. So do you have, I mean, the punt return's got to be your favorite touchdown? Man, I have so many, but I think all time, just because, you know, we sent New York home.

And, like, you know, all New Yorkers, me and I think you know that was to send them home for like they would they was literally I think the year before that they won the Subaru of the year I don't remember but I know like they was feeling themselves and they thought they was going to get back there so for me it was just like to send them home they was on the high horse and it was like go home was like think that but I mean I had the 80-yarder Mike Victor to me Washington that was Monday night I had some few Dallas ones I mean I got a lot of but yeah I think ultimately is probably that point about you

the par return that's my favorite you're favorite you're favorite I'm saying you're favorite touchdown. My favorite touchdown? I actually did have a touchdown on a block punt in college. Oh, black punt? No shit. Yeah.

Was it backed up? Just jumped right on it. It was backed up. Yeah, yeah. It was backed up. So I got one. So coaching here, like, you're coming into the coaching profession that may be the hardest time to ever coach.

Man. And like for us, growing up and watching college ball, I'm sure we were all like, oh, like you're like me. I want the guys to get paid. I want them to get theirs. They're adding something to the recipe at a university or in a community. They should get theirs. You should be able to leave if you don't like a situation.

Because, you know, we've been in bad situations. Been stuck. But, like, how do we find the happy medium? Man, I think it's tough right now. I think college football, it's really like the NFL. I feel like it's like free agency. I mean, it's like paying guys now. So I think they're going to have to figure out the cap somehow or some way.

Because, I mean, you got the Alabama's, the Oregon, these big-time schools with, like, smaller schools that can't compete with the budgets and how much they're paying these guys, NIL money. So, I mean, it's survival of the fittest, bro. I mean, I had a young guy coming in my office. Like, coach, I'm going to be real trying to waste your time. I'm going to the highest bidder. I'm like, damn. Like, I might not be the highest bidder.

I mean, my name will hold weight, but I don't finance as wise. I mean, I'm at HBCU, so we don't really have the resource some of these big schools have. So, and that's just the nature of the game. Is it cool to see Mike and those guys down at Norfolk State? Yeah, we played them November 1st. And hopefully it's at the link. We pose a player at the link, too. So I think Vig could do a good job as well, too, man.

You know, that's the big comedy. So we're going to play each other. It's going to be crazy. It's going to be surreal to see each other going with headsets on and coach. I'm like, that's crazy, bro. What are your pet peeves as a coach? You know, some guys, they probably have a bunch. You know, like, when you play for a guy, you're like, that's the one thing you don't do.

Like with Chip, we had to always wear a team issue gear. Always. You couldn't wear no black socks. You couldn't wear a no. Dude, I would have had a hard time. Why you think he got us out of here? Yeah. We weren't going for certain stuff.

It was just like we were doing it. It's one of the most well-known rivalries. between players and a former coach, you know, hearing you and Shady talk about it. And like, listen, I'm just talking for me, like, there's coaches I really had problems with. But then like, once I'm out, I'm kind of like, yeah, whatever.

Is there any chance ever? Like, what if you guys ran in? No. I don't, I mean, he said. You know, he took millions of dollars off the table for me, you know? So that's a real thing. Yeah, I mean, should you know,

if somebody take millions off your plate and your plate, you know, how you feed your family, your kids and stuff. You know what I'm saying? Like, that was the big thing for me. But to say a pet peeve, like, as a coach, I'm pretty lenient, dog. Like, I allow my players to be their self.

Like, you know, I don't like to control. For one, I'm not police. And for two, I'm not their dad. So, like, for me, it's just like, I just expect you to do the right things, you know what I'm saying? Oring off the field and I give you the league way. But it's probably not just putting in your full maximum effort. You know what I'm saying? I just feel like when you in between the white lines, give it your all.

But besides that, when I see people cutting corners, because, like, I was one of those guys before like I remember not finishing a push-up or if I had 10 I would stop at 8 like you know the tricks yeah you know what I'm saying so it's like for me it's like that's why I'm like how good I was dog and I still cut corners so like I'm just like for me knowing now I'm just like I just want my dudes to just put the work in and don't cut corners you know who a guy that me and me and beau both played for was Bill Belichick for sure and he was not a control freak about little shit yeah like he really it was all kind of like what you're describing it's like you think about bill you think control you think like bunch of rules but his rules were all football yeah you know like we were out

there like whatever you wanted to wear at practice you could switch your jerseys around like you know you could do whatever guys were like kind of like crazy swaggy fits at practice I thought it's kind of fun you know what could feel good but the workouts was hard though yeah yeah it was tough I mean it was tough I had a lot of conditioning so you know it's crazy workouts so you know y'all you y'all play with nelson aglow right yeah no so nelly used to tell me he was like jack he said you you wouldn't you wouldn't have been oh excuse me he's like you wouldn't have been able to play for uh for coach the strength program yeah like like it's like college for real it's like college yeah like yeah like and i was old when i got there so i was

like man i'm i'm not squatting every damn right right i know this might sound good in theory but i'm just not doing it it's crazy because like mike vick and shady will probably tell you stories like if you ask like man how dj was in the way room like literally we had to go in the way room i'll probably be out like 15 minutes they'd be looking up and like i'm in the locker room chilling this shit i'm like man What do you want me to do? I'm going to be the fast. That wasn't your game. You know what I'm saying?

So it's crazy. Well, how fast do you think you'd be right now if you lined up and ran a 40? I think you would smoke your receivers? Yeah, I already didn't race a few of my receivers. I'm still fast. I mean, I'm going on year three, retired. So, like, last year I for sure think I could have played in the NFL. Right now, it would probably take me about two or three months if I got back in shape, like, consistently every day.

But, like, I think I could do foo. I'll probably be like a foo right now. Did you have a favorite stop? besides, I mean, I don't want to say besides Philly because we just talked about coach, but like a part of your career that maybe other people don't realize it was like a really fun year for you.

Man, I had a lot of fun at Washington, man. When I left, because I mean, just everything that happened and then to go to a team and division. Yeah. I mean, you know that right down the road, DC, they call it Chocolate City, man, Chocolate City was fun. I had a lot of fun.

They had a little club back in the day. It's not, it's no longer open no more, but we have some fun. Which one was it? Stadium. Okay, yeah, I've heard of stadium. This bunch of my buddies is from D. Yeah, so stadium, man.

We used to have a lot of fun in there. They had a few nights clubs. Okay, all right. Washington was fun. Yeah, well, I mean, honestly, though, Tampa was fun. I had a lot of fun everywhere I went. L.A., played in L.A. Baltimore was all right, played in Las Vegas.

So I played in Vegas. Yeah, the same year I played in L.A., I went to Vegas, and then my final year was in Baltimore. So I think if I would have played in Vegas, a young D.J. Or a young D.J. In L.A. and a young D.J.C. in a young D. It would have been bad.

That's what I was going to ask. I had to wait a later later in my career to do this. that if I did that early it would have been bad being back home bad that's tough like if I had got drafted if LA like if y'all would have been in LA instead of St. Louis sure would have been bad but like I don't know if you you got a relationship with AD right yeah and Donald so he was like you know to be in st. Louis and then to go to LA he was like I was redruvenated like he was like me LA like the stars and like how big you become you know like it's just for him yeah you know for the money he can make off the field I mean he's doing it now

I mean only thing is bad though is that damn state taxes though and I'm from LA. So that's the only thing. We didn't have the taxes about it, be like, yeah, let's go to LA. That's why I gotta stay down in Florida. Florida, I thought it was gonna box, you know. Sure, hey, I was loving that way. I was getting that money.

I said, ooh, them checks were looking good after that taxis. Yes, sir. So you mentioned BDoc, you played with BDock, but who were the guys that like, not that you have fear? Yeah. But you had to respect the possibility they're gonna knock your head off.

Air Reed, smack me. Mike Vick threw a bomb up. We is in Baltimore, man. When I looked up, that boy was in the middle the field by the time that boy came down i caught it well on the side like tumbling tossing turning i was out best safety of all time i would say top three top three i would say i mean sean taylor obviously in my eyes i mean i know he was cut short you know r a p to sean taylor and then i would say like ral wood but for sure air he was he was a different type of dude for sure how about corners was there somebody

that ever like a body type that would give you trouble to lead was like really to lead and d rc besides that like I mean, obviously, I'm going to give Revis. It was, I ain't going to never disrespect a guy, but, like, I just feel like a lot of guys that guard me always had, like, safety help. Right. Like, there wasn't too many guys that were just going to guard me and not have no help. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, I used to tell dudes, like, when people asked me who's the best corner you played, it's kind of hard because didn't, like, even Darry was here.

He didn't want to cover me the whole game. You know what I'm saying? He did not want to play man-a-man covers the whole game on me. So, like, for me, it was guys there was longer. they had like a FRC or TILAD, they had long arms that could like move at the line of scrimmage. Then was kind of a little more hard for me. No question.

What about like we got Chad here? Yeah. Bide receivers that you played in the same era with that you really respect their game. Is there anyone? Julio. Yeah. For sure, T.O. Chad, uh, Marvin Harrison.

Yep. Um, Jerry Rice, obviously. Yeah. Go, Randy Moss. I mean, them, them dudes for sure paid away for me. Um, Steve Smith. Yeah. Is there anybody now that reminds you of you at all?

It's a little different. I mean, Tyreek Hill is a little more bulkier. I feel like, you know, he's a little different style of play. But, I mean, similar, Tankdale, I think, you know, kind of a smaller guy, two to add well. But, like, there's different about me. Like, I play outside. Like, a lot of these dudes now they're more in the slot. They're going in motion.

Like, that wasn't really our game. Like, Andy Reid's offense wasn't that. Like, we would just line up and we would go, you know what I'm saying? So I see the offenses now. I'm like if I was playing now like in all this like what he got like 2,000 yards in one year Tyreek like I mean 17 18 19 like 130 catches that's it's crazy the numbers are hard to compare I wasn't getting a ball like that like I would have to maybe like 80 targets you know what I'm saying but I wasn't getting 100 200 targets like I wasn't and I didn't like I play with so many

different quarterbacks like I didn't have like a Matt Ryan or or Drew Breeze or like Aaron Rogers to just play with like eight years like Matt I talk about Antonio Brown. He had Ben Rothettigberg, like six, seven, seven, eight years in a row. Like the most years I play with the quarterback was two years, one and a half, two years, Michael Vick, two years, Dom and Meneb, two years, Kevin Cobb, Nick Fodes, like, I could go on and on, James Winston, like, you know the whole list probably. Like, bro, it's crazy.

Fitz Magic. Fitzmagic. Yeah. Like, my list is crazy. Kirk Cousins, you know what I'm saying? My list is crazy. Matthew Stafford, like Derek Carr. Okay.

All right. I want to stay here. Lamar Jackson. Who throws the. The most catchable ball. The most catchable. I thought you said who was that going to like. The most catchable, Matthew Stafford.

Yeah. Matt was a dog, bro. I think he don't get enough credit, man. I agree. We talk about this all of time. He's a top 10 quarterback, I think, for sure, bro. He's a Hall of Famer. He's a Hall of Famer.

Hell, yeah, for sure. He's got aora. Yeah. He's got sleep number or. And he's a dog, though. Yeah, he'll sit in here and take a throw. Like, he's a dog, bro. Dude, I remember, what was it, the Detroit game,

where he went up there when he was with the Rams. And he got smacked, bro, and had to play it off like he wasn't out. That's the kind of guy that makes you want to line up next to him. Tough guy, man. Who threw the ball that would hurt your hand? Mike? Yeah. Like, Mike, I'm right here.

Like, you ain't got to throw it that hard. And he got, like, a little curve to it, too, it's good. But, like, I think overall, like, me and Michael Vick are connection, dog. Like, it was, I mean, obviously I had good connections with other quarterback. But I think Michael Vick just understood. Like, he was like, I'm going to just put air on it, and I'm just throw it. And I'm just throw it on it.

I got one for you. This is what I always want to know. Wider Sears, we are D-Lyman. Such a different game for us. So, like, the thought of catching a deep ball is wild to me. Like, what's the hardest part about catching deep balls? It's tracking the air, like high pointing it. I think for me, man, I play baseball. I was in the center field, man. So I think, like, you know, like, tracking out a little white ball, like,

helped me from, like, now you've got a football coming. So I think the hardest thing is, you know, just gauging the ball. Like, you know, sometimes you're running and it's thrown from so far away. it like it may look like it's underthone or overthrown and like or it over carry so you just got to like gauge that bro and like you don't want to run too fast I mean overrun the ball you know what I'm saying so I just think really just practicing and gauging like you know where's that ball going to I don't think I'm to over overrun any deep ball no you're not but you know who tracks the fuck out of a deep ball and he just changed teams George Pickens I think I think that dude has incredible

ball skills crazy yeah George Pickens a dog I love George Pickens again he's a but they call him NFL young boy yeah like the NBA young man at the NFL he's wild that's gonna be scary though him and the CD together yeah it's gonna be who would you pick so in that in the NFC East best receivers what receivers you're gonna take well I think picking still like respectfully has something to prove like to your point talking about like work habits and like just kind of not letting the little shit bother you and now I know yeah he's dealt with a lot of bullshit with quarterbacks right like and that's got that's got a Jason Rudolph yeah so and I'll like Terry.

Scary Terry. So you think Debo Sammy going to do anything over there? He's getting a little longer in the tooth, man. And like, you think about like your game. Yeah.

That age as well. If you can keep your speed, that age as well. He's more physical, too. He's not like a speed guy. He's been a bunch of car accidents. So, you know, like, to me, I'd love to see how that works.

And, you know, it's a different offense a little bit that he's going into. So any last question, like, favorite receivers to watch in the game now, that maybe don't get enough credit or that you think are next. That's a good question, man. Ooh, I like Christian Kurt, man. Yeah?

I like Christian Kurt's game, man. He's very physical. He can run a row. He gets into and out of his break. I know he's surprised. He's like, yeah. But I think, like, if he could stay healthy, but when he was in Jacksonville, it was hard because I just don't think

Trevor Lawrence was the right fit for him. The placement's a little off. But I like him because, I mean, he's fast. So Christian Kurt is very fast. I don't know. I don't think a lot of people really realize how fast he is, and he can run a route. So, like, if I would say, like, somebody that I would say up and coming

with Rouse and taking that next step, I think it would be Christian. That'd be awesome. I love CJ. I think CJ Strauss incredible, so that would be fun to see him. Yeah, I didn't realize he was in Houston, too, man. Thanks for keeping me up to that. Well, dude, it's that point in the off season where I'm like, fuck, I forgot it. It's a lot of people.

I'm looking up. I'm like, dudes are, like, everywhere now. It's like, it's hard to keep it. Like, now we're not playing. It's like I'm looking at one of my boys, Van Jefferson. He's in Tennessee. He's in Tennessee. Now, I'm like, you was just in the stillers.

So it's like, I don't even, you don't even hear a lot of this. Dude, you have another job. There's a lot going on in your life. I got to win. I got to win now. We ain't rebuilt. I got to win now. Let's go, dude.

We'll come up to a game, man. I'm just super excited for you. Congratulations on everything. Thank you, bro. A lot of respect for you, man. Always, man. Appreciate you, Jack. My boys, yes, sir.