Green Light with Chris Long - Ep. 22a - College National Championship and NOLA Review. Luke Keuchly Retirement. NFL TE John Phillips in Studio.

Episode Date: January 15, 2020

National Championship and NOLA - 1:40. Burrow Tweets - 14:00. Ringer with Ryen - 18:40. Positivity - 21:28. Luke Keuchly - 30:38. John Phillips (interview begins) - 37:17. Chris and John at UVA - 38:15. NFL Tight Ends - 43:10. NFL Training Camp - 51:45. Learning from Brees and Rivers 1:04:36. Playing for the Dallas Cowboys - 1:14:45. Luke Keuchly and Health in Football - 1:28:10. First Fall out of Football - 1:35:40. Best Coaching Hire - 1:37:00. About Chalk Media: Following the unfiltered voice and vision of Chris Long, Chalk Media is the interactive online community for you, the intelligent and humorous sports fan. Driven by access, Chalk delivers a unique perspective that cuts through the canned talking points and provides a variety of content from your favorite sports and entertainment celebrities. Here at Chalk, we don’t take ourselves too seriously, but we are rooted in challenging the perception of professional athletes. We embrace the “real” with a unique combination of humor and intelligence. Chalk is a community with a voice beyond 240 characters that brings a perspective and vibe to a traditionally brash and boastful sports media space. Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more. Nothing is off limits at Chalk - hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Greenlight, episode 22. I can barely talk. I sound awful. We're going to talk about why I sound awful. We're going to talk about the big NFL news, the surprise retirement that happened today. Stefanski. We're going to hit the Rooney Rule at some point in this pod.

And I just want to go to bed. This is Greenlight after dark. It is 9 p.m. I wasn't ready for this. But we got to do it. Content to be made. I might surprise retire from this pod. I might surprise retire from this pod.

Bro, I've gotten like 18 hours sleep the last two nights. How about you? Seven. Huh. Not bad. Better than I thought. Yeah, but still, not optimal. Nah.

Welcome to episode 22. Thank you. You're welcome. This is the Emmett Smith episode. That's right. We're grownups now. Over 21. And this is Greenlight After Dark.

This is the latest. we've shot. My liver is limping over the finish line right now. I'm high tea making alongside low tea, Chris. Yeah, we got to do something about this because I am... How was New Orleans, pal? New Orleans was great. For those of you listening, again, I am Chris Long,

host of this Greenlight Pod, and for the loyal listeners who also watched the live show. stream. This is Making Gunner, Real Estate Extraordinaire, live stream extraordinaire, and co-hosts of this podcast. He did not go to New Orleans. I want New Orleans to watch the tigers, all of them. Did you hear a lot of this? Just dueling tiger rags. Is that tiger rack? Yeah, that's not. I can do much better. Somebody. But it's late. Somebody said that and excuse my voice because, as I just mentioned off air,

making brag that he has gotten about how many hours of sleep the past two nights? 18. Yeah, I've gotten seven or so. And we'll get into that. But somebody joked that the winner of that game should get Death Valley and the mascot. Well, Death Valley, I agree with. It's just there's a lot going on that. They seem to be kindred spirits, very geographically different.

Also, Clemson and LSU fans seem to get along very well. I don't think I saw a single, I don't know, altercation. And I was out on Bourbon Street last night until nearly 4 a.m. The first night I got there, I stayed out way too late. You know how like when you get to a trip, you have two, three nights staying out with your buddies. I had to do some work and I had to make some content. but my boys were down there, Ryan's down there, Riscilla's down there,

Dan, Big Cat, PFT, Stanford Steve, a whole bunch of guys that you don't see a lot. So it was kind of like the boys are together, let's hang out, we're not going to miss a night, we're going to go out to dinner at Desi's, which is a wonderful steakhouse. But that dinner turns into, you know, midnight. And then it's like, we make a pack to go out until 2 a.m.

We're going to stay awake until 2 a.m. And then that turns into four. And I always say the first night drinking is always worse than the second night. I don't know about you. You got to break through that wall. I can only do the one. You only do one. Yeah.

When did you stop doing two in a row? 27. 27. Yeah. That's my problem. So that was seven years ago for me. And I can still hang, but this is the result. Yeah, you're usually our ringleader.

I mean, were you down there? It sounds like you were being dragged a bit. I was being dragged the first night. Ended up at a casino. I don't even gamble at casinos. I'm watching Big Cat play Blackjack. You know, Cutler was down there. Hadn't seen him in a while, Jay.

Man, talk about a guy who's very happy. I think Cutler catches a lot of flack for his personality. And some people have issues with his decision-making on the field. I think he's living his best life in retirement. I don't think he even misses it. The guy looks like a movie star, well-dressed, happy, smiling. Also, one thing I like about Cutler is, if you're going to be a jerk to drunk fans, just do it.

You know, just say, no, I'm not taking a picture with you right now. I kind of respect that. He was that guy. No, he just, he's not, he's like somebody stumbles up drunk and wants a picture and an autograph or whatever, he's just going to be like, I don't really do that. Which I think is okay. I always go out of my way to take the time, but secretly sometimes I want to be like him. And kudos to him for acting on that.

I don't know where you stand on ethically answering people's cries for a picture, an autograph at 11, 12, you know, 2 a.m. It can be a little bit cumbersome. Well, it's also the, it's college football. Khan, you know? I guess Jay didn't have the most standout career at Vanderbilt, but you're around football fans. They're going to know who you are.

They're going to want a piece of you. You got to figure that. And I'm always, I'm always like the opposite. Like I'm afraid to piss anybody off or having anybody be like, yeah, that guy was an asshole. And by the way, on this pod, I'm not going to cuss.

Okay. Assholes about all you're going to get. No, asshole, but no F words and no S words. I'm going to get through the whole pod without doing it. Okay. I was thinking about that on my, a 10-hour ride or trip home today. Did you drive?

No, I flew and it was, there was fog in New Orleans and then fog in Charlottesville. I can attest to the fog in Seaville. We have visibility of about 10 feet outside. It was brutal. And that's what I get to, I mean, listen, it was a business trip, yeah, making some content. But to go down there at 34,

ambitiously, one night on Bourbon Street. The game, by the way, was terrific. But for me to do two nights in New Orleans, that's what I get, lesson learned, long flight home, my voice is gone, I was screaming the whole night. You know, you just scream at people.

They're right next to you. I did that for two nights. Also, the first night, I almost quit New Orleans. I was back in the room, 3 a.m., and I said to myself, like, what am I doing?

I just want to be at home. Like, I can watch this game on the couch. Let me get on kayak. I don't know if you ever get on kayak. Dot com, yep. Yeah. And I'm going to book a ticket in, like, Irish goodbye this trip. Like, not even tell the guys,

I'm just going to go to the airport after I do my appearance tomorrow and watch the game on Wi-Fi. You know? Like, I was ready to do that at 3 a.m. Luckily, I rallied, and the second night was much, much better. The game, I never understood going to football games, like personally, because the last 11 years,

I don't really get to go to football games. Definitely not pro football games. Tried that with Packers, Bears, and my brother's game to open this season. I did not like it at all. That game last night, slightly different level of intensity, but it was amazing. I mean, I totally get it. and the atmosphere was like a home game for the tigas. What was the disparity in the stance?

I would say it was 60, 40, which isn't terrible. You know, maybe 75, 35. And I was sitting in the LSU section. And that's a pretty damn cool little thing they got going there in general. People are very passionate about that football team. And you know what's cool about seeing the game in person was, you got to see everything on the back end. When I watch on TV,

where I could use some reps watching football now that I'm a fan is watching the back seven. And I don't feel like I really get to watch the back seven on TV. I'm always focused on the linemen. And being able to see all the route concepts, the coverages, and how those skill guys played last night, it was unbelievable. The whole first half, and I had at the very last second,

I loaded up on LSU. Good idea. Yeah, it turned out to be. It was nerve-wracking. They were backed up on their goal line the entirety of the first quarter. But it was like the minute they got off it and they got a break.

That free play they gave Trevor second possession, I think it was, nearly killed him the first half. I mean, they were down 10 before you could even blink because they never got off their own end zone. But the rest of the game was, it just showed the way they outscored. them down the stretch, they're historically good.

I mean, you could argue along with maybe the Nebraska teams in the 90s who beat a bunch of top 10 teams by like an average score of 30 points or the Miami teams or you could go even further back. But LSU, do you think it's the best team ever? That's lofty. They're going to lose like nine juniors. And they also, the box score jumps out when it maybe didn't off the screen at least.

I mean, Edwards Lear over 100. The receiver over 200, Chase, Jefferson was over 100. Burrow was Burrow. And it just, it just, it looks so easy. It wasn't, what are you thinking right now? How about 11 in orange? 11 in orange is a stud. I wanted to call him an effing stud, but I'm not cussing.

He's just fun to watch. Like I said, when I went down to show, Charlotte and we were sitting there on the field for the AC championship. He walked by me and I knew who he was but at the moment I had to reshift my understanding of who this guy is as a football player because again, built like a outside backer, runs like a

free safety, can cover, gets involved in the run game, can add, like he does everything. And he had the the 11 number, and when he walked by me the first time, I knew exactly who it was, but I'm like, who is this guy? Looks like a DN, got a skill number, don't get it. Probably might be the best player on the field.

Looked like a New York giant to me. And we'll see how Burrough shakes out. Right now, gun to your head. Is he going to be, is he going to live up to the hype or not? I think it'll be good. But not great? Yeah. Okay. That's what he looks like.

Give me a comp then. Better than Tannahill. Better than new Tannale? Yeah. Or Miami, yeah, yeah, yeah. Better than new Tanna Hill. I'm all, I'm, I'm, the big question for me is, is, and again, Brady, Joe Brady, who we saw today, headed up to Carolina,

how much of Joe Burroughs ascension in college football this year had to do with the skill, players, Brady's influence, which is essentially Sean Payton's influence as we were just talking about. And we'll find out. We'll find out if he can overcome likely playing in Cincinnati. You know, I don't know if Taylor's the answer up there. You know, I was texting with somebody today that was like, do you think he, he pulls an Eli Manning and says not going to Cincinnati? As an Ohio kid? I think that's the only reason if he was not an Ohio kid. I would feel awful for him. I'm really excited for him.

I think I'm biting the cheese. I think he's going to turn that program around somehow. He's just got... Hall of Samer? I don't know about that. What about Andrew Luck? That's a nice comp. Okay.

You know, the thing I like about that comp is that Andrew Luck was a thrower first, but a great athlete. Yeah. And Burrow, the way he moves in the pocket, he's really, I don't know, he's like high-hipped, moves well, with the ball in his hand. I mean, that's a skill that not a really, you could be fast or athletic,

but moving in the pocket is like a, is a second athleticism, and he has that. And some athletic quarterbacks don't move well in the pocket. I mean, within the pocket. So he makes plays to extend. I think luck's a nice, a nice comp. And also the probably coolest college football player

of all time. That's such an interesting call. We got to be wary of recency bias. I don't know, man. With that Stogey, and the brilliant marketing by LSU. And he just doesn't give an F. Nice.

He seems not to give an F. And I even dug into his tweets, like I did the old tweets thing, with my breath held. Yeah. All I found was a guy who's actually pretty good at Twitter and has been since like he was in high school, which is remarkable to me.

Well, he's smart as hell like Andy Dufrein. Looks like Andy Dufrein. What else would you expect? Listen, the guy's tweets, I mean, here's what I found. And I didn't want to do the thing where I retweeted his old tweets to invite people to do that, right? Right.

That would be a bad move, right? Right. Even if you liked the tweets because it's inviting it. It's inevitable. People have already combed through them. The reason you haven't heard about it is because there was nothing bad. But there was, I mean, there were tweets,

multiple tweets standing up for NCAA athletes asking for them to get paid. He owned Gottlieb. he was talking about Chris Collinsworth color commentary stuff we all do he's doing this at 18 19 years old he's ahead of his time

now a couple tweets that I thought were controversial he hates zoos with a passion oh on board you're on board with that and I I don't want to assume but I assume you think the animals are better off elsewhere right I would agree there but there are some animals when you read up on it

that are better off in zoos. Just standing up for zookeepers. Zookeepers. Also, I felt seen, and I'll read the tweet and quotes. This is exactly what he said. And I think this is the only red flag here in his entire draft stock picture.

Birkenstocks are the worst thing ever created. I loved him until I read that. also hates SEC announcers. That was a tweet from like 17. Okay. And then he had one really, really bad tweet. As a Cavalier basketball fan, please do not trade Wiggins.

Yeah, nah, good trade. That one didn't age well. That's the one tweet he wants back. But if that's your bad tweet, if that's your version of a Geronimo Allison tweet or a Josh or Josh Allen, you know, tweet, like, you're not doing too bad. Are you going to talk about neck on this podcast?

Neck? Yeah. Come again? It's in your notes. It's a song, the LSU band plays. Oh, I don't want to, I'm not going to fall, I'm not going to fall into that trap. I'm not really setting a trap.

I just saw it in your notes. One thing that I noticed was that, and I've heard this on TV, but it's, it's louder in person. Yeah. When they tell you to put your mouth, on the tiger unit, comma, B-I-T-C-H. It's quite lewd.

It's very lewd. I mean, I'm not going to stick my nose up at that, but it was very vulgar. And people were passionate about it. Think about the kids. The children were probably chiming in. The kids were like, tigers have. All right.

But it was an amazing, experience like that was one of those things that I rallied I did not book my ticket on kayak I made it happen I rallied for the second night we had a great night uh drank a hundred beers um and I saw a college football game that I'll always remember super cool experience and there was something magical going on there there were a lot of people on the sideline cowboy reed mentioned this before going on he he hadn't seen so many celebrities or names at a college football game you thought ever i don't know oh yeah they did that college football 150 150 they had a bunch of the top 10 up there very controversial right now it is oh yeah people are not happy with it on the internet

um and yet bugger macbarlin i mean doesn't get much bigger than bugger boog was there yeah dude he was out there for the coin toss you might have been you two margs deep you think that point was he was he slurring i'm talking about you oh me no he wasn't talking oh so what i had to do yesterday by the way I went to bedbath and beyond at a nice little Sunday. So we're gone. What did you get? A shower liner. Organizers.

Right. Not an organizer. I'm going to organize my shower today. I think I'll go to bed bath and get a bunch of... Nah, there were some necessary purchases, but... So I had to do the ringer pod. Dealing with FOMO, though, so I had to do that. Yeah, you had to do something.

Just keep moving. Yep. Just keep swimming. We had to do the ringer pod. Me and Ryan had to do it. So we both were all out of bed, just like, you know, let's do his pod. I'll meet you at the hotel. All right.

So I don't think you have to alter your voice. That's how you sound right now. Okay. That's true. So I get there and he's got the setup and we both just feel not unprepared. But when you've been watching the games hanging out, it's not the same as sitting there with notes. We shot a solid pod. Didn't feel great about it.

I always hate every pot I do. You hate it too. Yep. So I leave because I've got to go to this appearance on the Louis Armstrong boat, which is very cool. Nice. I like boats. Yeah, it was the coolest boat I've ever been on.

Like ships? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a ship. And I'm three hours in and I'm like three or four Clemson Orange Margs in. And Rosillo calls. He goes, hey, buddy, what's you up to? I'm like, nothing.

Like, why are you calling? Something's up. He goes, how would you feel about doing that podcast again? And I was like, man, it was that bad, huh? He's like, no, that's not really it. I was like, so what do you mean? He goes, we didn't get the audio. Wild.

Over an hour of hard-hitting analysis from your boy and double R had to do it again, happy to do it again. But when I got in the room, I was like, I'm kind of almost drunk now. And I've kind of said this stuff. already. Yeah, I've told you, I don't listen to that particular podcast. Yeah. Don't care for Ryan one bit.

Yeah. I'm just kidding. Close friend, dear friend. Dear friend of the program. Yeah. There's no competition here. Two S is two L's. I listened.

Yeah. To, I don't know what day it is. It's nearing Wednesday here in Seaville, Chalk headquarters. I thought you sounded great. Thank you. Maybe the Margs loosen you up a bit. Oh, maybe I appreciate. appreciate that.

Yeah. But you know when you're sitting there and you know you're, you're kind of drunk already and it's day too drunk, like where your faculties are kind of like, it's not the ideal time to do a pod, especially with the very critical ringer bros that listen to the ringer. Apparently, I needed a bit more of a critical ringer producer down there in New Orleans.

Apparently something happened with the audio. What if you had just said, hey, man, Chris, you just, you weren't bringing it. Can we run it back? I would have said I'd be happy to because I hated it. Yeah. And I would have probably been just as bad the second time. So I did two pods, did some, the little content with Big Cat.

And it was great. I do want to do a quick positivity shoutout. I want to start doing some positive stuff. One of my New Year's resolutions is to be less negative. Okay. How am I doing? Fair. Okay.

That didn't seem real positive. But I want to shout out Jason Van Camp, Green Beret, decorated, great dude, natural-born leader, came up to Kelly with me, he's got a book coming out. It's called Deliberate Discomfort. You can get it on Amazon. Actually, I read it because he was gracious enough to mention your boy in there.

And I was like, I got to read it to see if I sound like a huge, God, I want to cuss right now. I want to see if I sound like a baby in the midst of all these like military heroes. He's listing in the book. And then there was this charitable jerk named Chris who played football. Who was a wimp, is it? But actually, he, he was great.

I mean, for a guy to be Army football player, Green Beret, philanthropist, here was a guy that when I summited last time, I had to fall back behind because I was trying to get Helodianata up the mountain, which was the most challenging couple hours of my life. And our group kind of breaks off in different groups sometimes. And guys, to stagger the summits because some guys are guys and girls could be amputees they could be moving a different pace you got to get them up and down quicker some guys might be moving a little

slower because they're 340 pounds like a lotie heaviest man to ever summit probably a heaviest thousand feet ever in the history of mankind i'm gonna go out on limb and say at that altitude heaviest man of all time anyways jason and james king um go up to the top they summit they're coming coming back down the mountain. They've been walking about 15, 20 minutes. We're 15, 20 minutes at top of that mountain is hell. And they turned around and summited twice with us, because that's the type of guy that Jason Van Camp is, that James King is, and that that should tell you everything about him. I mean, for him to be Army, football, Green Beret, do all the charitable stuff he does, and now be an author, congratulations to him. Go check out the book. He's a really bright guy.

a good guy. Steve Gleason, again, I mentioned it. He's getting a congressional medal tomorrow in DC. I'm really excited to go see him. So shout out to Steve Gleason. You deserve that more, dude. Pearl Jam, tour and album coming out. Six-year hiatus. I know you don't care for Pearl Jammer, do you? Pearl Jam's fine. What's your favorite Pearl Jam song? I'd be happy to tell you my favorite Pearl Jam song. Can you do it in under three seconds? Yes, I'd be happy to. My favorite, one, two, one, is daughter. Oh, is it? Yep.

What's your favorite part of that song? The middle. Yeah? Yeah. What's your favorite? Probably immortality. Okay. Anyways, or release.

Release, immortality. I've got a long list. It's really hard. I'm sure you do. I know. Sorry for liking me. music or being positive about anything. Please suck the energy right out of this podcast.

I'm sucking the energy out. Also, Diego the turtle. Very important turtle was brought from, he's a giant tortoise. I think he was brought from the Galapagos Islands to try to help save the species. He was 80 years ago. He's 100 years old.

This dude made 800 turtles. offspring out the wazoo. He's like a benevolent Gingus Khan. I mean, think about all. I mean, Gingus Khan, many offspring, but also did a lot of negative things. This turtle, Diego, done nothing but positive. And they're going to bring him back to the islands now

at 100 years old. So he can go off and make more offspring. Not interested in Diego the turtle? When we were in high school. Yeah. And we had to be awakened by her parents. Yeah. Mayor once woke me up with a box turtle she had found in the driveway.

Yeah. She's like, wake up and then right in my face was this turtle. And I have this weird sort of fear of turtle. They do that slow neck extension and like a snap. Yeah. Dr. Fax has had a snapping turtle from the James River for well over a decade. In his possession? Dr. Fax, Nate Collins, NFL player also.

green light spot or uh what do we call that moonlighter um spot relief guy yeah he's a he's a relief pitcher and dr fax has a snapping turtle that we dr. fakes has a snapping turtle that we dr. dr. a decade ago and that thing grew to be pretty big he had to send it to his dad to take care of hey dad i don't know what you'd rather get your kid's dog because he doesn't have the time or energy or a snapping turtle um nobody wants to surprise dog you definitely don't want to surprise snapping turtle where where where are you on the odell fake money thing first question is it fake so it looked very real to me on the field and of course for those

of you listening odell came out on the field after the game gave a couple players what looked like a bunch of c notes um with cameras everywhere then they're claiming lsusus claiming eight hours later that it's fake money, which would beg the question, what was the point? Yeah. Well, hey, pay the players. It is a nice stunt. It's a nice stunt. I would hope that the players knew that they were getting paid before they got paid.

The compliance, NCAA compliance folks are no joke. No, I know. So what I don't want to see collect. We all know that the vacated national title, Clemson has won. We all, 2020. We all know. I mean, I think I assume we align exactly the same on amateurism in college sports. I don't know.

I mean, should we pay players? It's pretty simple. Yes. Okay. You hesitate. It is a hesitant. It's a hesitant, yes. We can get into another time.

We'll get into another time. Yours is a yes? Yes. And to me, like, I don't know how we figure it out isn't really the question I'm asking. It's should guys be paid for putting on that. that show last night and making a bunch of people a bunch of money. Not just the TV deals, all that. Like every city these guys play bowl games in, the hotels, you know, the, the, the great city of Miami and the Orange Bowl, your favorite city? Miami, in quotation marks. Miami Gardens,

Hollandale Beach, Hollywood, Florida. Somebody else said that this weekend. Oh, yeah? Swear to you. We were sitting at dinner. And I forget who it was. Maybe it was Steve. He was like, I don't know, man. Like Miami, it's hard to figure out because you don't know if you're in Miami when you're in Miami. It was probably just a listener to the pod. Steven makes sense. So Odell handing the guys fake money, evidently, I get the camera thing. I just hope he tipped them off

because I'd hate it if one of them gets in. I know they're done, so in essence it's fine, but I hate if they became collateral damage to the stunt, which could be a stunt that might move the needle. I doubt it. The needle's not moving. it doesn't seem.

You're not going to be changing Dabo's mind. No, Davo. That's a ton. The funniest thing is I saw there was a meme that I retweeted, which people got mad about, of Dabo yelling at his players in a big circle, probably from the pregame. And it said, and this is after the game,

that's why we don't pay y'all. Yeah. So poor Dabo slept on all year, only to go play a road game. Because he, I don't know how many times he pointed that out, and get their butts kicked by the real tigas. LSU is looking into whether O'Dell Beckham Jr.

handed out novelty money to players. Yeah, we'll see about that. The big news in football, and I've got a special guest coming up here in a little bit, John Phillips, longtime NFL stud and Virginia Cavalier, good buddy of, I mean, we call him a friend of the program, him, right? He'd never been here.

But I'm going to sit down with him and talk to him about, you know, he'd been on the Saints. I want to talk about Drew Brees. I want to talk to him about the hires in Dallas. He played in Dallas. And Antonio Gates was a big retirement today. He played with Antonio in San Diego for a long time. So he knows Philip Rivers, Antonio Gates.

The surprise retirement today, we just learned about it as we're firing up the paw was Luke Keekley. Yep. Luke Keekley, 28 years of age, eight years in the NFL. 2012 NFL draft calls it a career just as we were going to tape. So

I think I think it's a concussion thing, definitely, right? We haven't read anything. We're talking about this blind. And he put out a three minute video, we haven't listened to it. Yeah, it's got to be. It's got to be. I mean, the guy, the guy had a lot of scary impact hits over his career already. And

you know there was one that he was visibly shaken coming off the field and I don't know if that was a concussive symptom he was crying on the field but when you see guys exhibiting those symptoms I think nowadays you have no choice but to confront it head on because the minute a guy gets dinged you know at home the camera goes to him it's like when you watch the bailer QB in the sugar bowl against Georgia. It's not just, you don't just see on the bottom of the screen out with a concussion. You see what he looks like when he gets up. You see that it took minutes for him to get off the field. He looks confused, disoriented. His fourth concussion on the season, right, or on the season or in his career. Oh, golly, Chris. Not a bunch. Yeah, he's had a bunch. Luke the same way.

You see those symptoms. It's scary. This is a bright guy. very bright guy, by all accounts, probably football for him, although he could have been one of the best to ever play the game at that position. And for a short bit there, in my opinion, he was, one of the best players I've ever seen in my time in the league and played the game the right way, but a ton of high-impact collisions. And look at Vanderec, today, next surgery. That's a career that might not go on a while the way he plays the game.

It's a rough position playing at that second level. The hits are scary. These DBs coming downhill, linebackers coming downhill. The collisions are different than offensive linemen and defensive linemen. And I can't blame him. He seems like football for him is just part of the puzzle.

It's not everything. ACC defensive player of the year in 11 at Boston College, defensive rookie of the year in the NFL in 2012, 2013 defensive player of the year in NFL seven-time pro bowler. Amazing, amazing, amazing, and a class dude. You know, it reminds me on a much larger scale and a more surprising scale.

I don't know what's more surprising. The Andrew Luck thing or this one. I think probably this one. Yeah, I don't know. I would say luck, but interestingly enough, same draft, 2012. But the problem was with Andrew,

there were all these injuries and it had been a tough couple years. I think more surprising, I guess, would be the timing of Andrews right before the season. Yeah, that was a surprising part. I wasn't even thinking about him retiring. You know, I don't know if people in Carolina knew it.

I don't know if it had something to do with the changes in coaching and saying, this would be a good time to bow out. And we'll get to who they hired as an offensive coordinator because he has to do with LSU. I mean, we're going to find out. Can I read you some names in this draft? Yeah.

Luck went one, RG3 went two. You have Keekeley at 9 to Carolina. Stefan Gilmore at 10. Yeah. To the Buffalo Bills. Patrick Cox at 12. Mm-hmm. Michael Brockers at 16?

Brockers at 14. 14. Boom Tower, 25. Pats. Good players. Really good players in that draft. Jack Rabbit. Jack Rabbit.

39. Jay Jenks lockdown. To the Rams. Alshan at 45. A lot of guys who you've played with in this. Yeah, and also that just goes to show you how old we are because that class, you got guys retiring. Yeah. And looking old.

And to me, I remember. sitting at a bar in St. Louis watching that draft because I was seeing who we were going to take. We took Brock. I remember Fletch getting drafted, so time flies. And it's never a bad, it reminds me on a larger scale of Chris Borland.

Chris Borland was a tremendous linebacker right out of the gate in San Francisco. Wisconsin guy, a very cerebral guy. Seemed like football was, again, part of the puzzle, not everything. So when he retired, like,

three years in, it's a guy that I thought would play 10, 12 years. It was a shock. And he kind of was one of the first guys to say, I'm out. Now, Barry Sanders obviously being won, but explicitly talking about head trauma and health concerns, we're getting more and more guys who are saying, no more. One year for Chris Borland. Yeah, one year. Crazy. And he was so good. Played in 14 games. He was so good right out of the gate. Yep. So it's a trend. you got a monitor. I think nowadays, now the guys are getting more taking the... When I talked to my dad about this, when he was a player, you had to grind for 12, 15 years to make your money. You know, he was defensive player you're making a million dollars. And for me, you know,

high draft pick or any of these guys, you're set after your first contract. So for me to get my second contract, that's icing on the cake for me. It's big money again, but you're good. I could retire. I could have walked away if I wanted to. I don't know how I would be if this trend came five, six years earlier because it was always in the back of my mind like maybe I should step away.

Maybe it's not worth it. And then eventually you play too long, you're like, damage is done. What's three more years going to do? So kudos to anybody who has the balls to make this decision and go against the grain in five, ten years. This might be a lot more normal.

Oh, well said. I'm going to get into the hires today. I'm going to get in Stefanski, obviously the head coach of the Browns at this point, the 10th since 1999. Boy. Yeah. We're going to talk about Joe Brady a little bit more, and I feel like there was another higher. I'll get there. But I'm going to have JP on.

I'm going to let you get home and get some rest. You're very gracious to come in here and bring the energy. Anything for you. But lights out for me. 10 p. Yeah, so it's 9.34 p.m. We've got the boss hog, J.P. in here. We've got big John Phillips in the chair here. John, you just, that's a microphone, you just speak into it. Yeah, I got that. I got that. He's media ready.

John Phillips, how many years in the league? 8, 9, 9. 10. 10? 10. Shortcut me, man. Come on. Yeah, 10 was a big That was a big landmark milestone for you. And you started in Dallas. I did. Drafted in Dallas, 2009. Then you ended up in San Diego next? Yeah, four in Dallas, and then I went to San Diego, three there.

And then New Orleans? I was in Denver for eight games and the last eight games that year. I was in New Orleans, re-signed with New Orleans for another year, and then last year, Arizona. So your voice sounds great. Yeah, I feel good. I mean, I wasn't up at 4 a.m. Boozing last night, so. Who said I was boozing?

I did say I had 100 beers. Yeah, I think you did. So we lived at the Meat Mansion, which was a house full of eight dudes, senior year, my senior year in Fry Springs, legendary place, mythical figure here, not just at UVA as a tight end. And for a while there, we were tight end you. Yeah, we were churning them out. I mean, you had Heath, Estes, Tom Santee,

Stu Par played for a while. I mean, we were really churned them out. Linebackers and tight ends were really popular. That's kind of what we did. And offensive linemen. Yeah, I mean, like grow that like five years there, man. I felt like we were putting multiple guys, like handfuls of guys into the league consistently.

I mean, I would rank us up those couple years with almost any team on the East Coast. Yeah, it was like, listen, we were good. We were like an eight, nine win team when we could be. We were seven. No. Okay, so we won nine games my senior year. Right?

Yeah, we were nine and three and then we lost the bowl, Texas Tech. We won seven, five the year before, five and seven the year before, and seven in the Music City Bowl year, which would have been your freshman year. Yeah, that was my first year. So we were a good team, but we weren't as good as probably our professional stock, because we did have some good pros. Make, you take care, bud. Don't take care.

Okay. Okay. So, and for any of you watching on YouTube, JP is wearing pants, they're just camouflage. Absolutely. I mean, I watched the show, a few, you know, the show, and you're always in sweatpants. So you do have a computer. Yeah, but, you know, you're always comfortable. And I'm sitting there, and this is like, I'm hanging out, you know, put the kids asleep. I'm like, he's comfortable. I'm going to be comfortable. Got to be comfortable. And this is a comfortable guy. Yeah. But I will say when we were in school, we had better pros. I think Al Groh did a great job of taking what he knew about the pros and looking at it through that lens. And he knew how to recruit guys that would project very well to the next level, especially in the front seven defensively and offensively on the line.

Yeah, he had a model and that's what he wanted. And years later, you talk to him at weddings and on the phone. And we do a lot. Yeah, like he's more of like a mentor now. And you just find out like he had a specific type of player that he wanted, you know. He always like big, tall, fast, you know. Oh, yeah, he's a measurable guy. Like in how Davis.

Yeah, wanted all the tangibles. But he wanted to build an NFL style team. And, you know, he recruited me. That was, that was his pitch. He was like, you want to play in the NFL? You want to play tight in the NFL? You need to come to Virginia and play in a pro-style offense. I mean, I remember going to Dallas, and as a rookie, we're installing the same offense that I ran for four years.

I mean, a lot of the similar packages, a lot of the same, like, words concept-wise. I mean, and for a 16-year-old kid, you're like, hey, you're going to make a lot of money to play tight-in in the NFL. Can you run a pro-style, and I wonder about this now, because I thought some of, listen, some of our schemes were so pro-style, it was hard. And that was before the air raid stuff really took over. So you get away with a little bit more. Can you still run a pro-style college program? I mean, I think you can, but you have to be successful. Right.

Because everybody wants the big scores now. Everybody wants the big bombs, the big West Coast, you know, let it fly go. But I mean, look at the Titans right now in NFL. They're just matching up. Like, I think the speed of the game to match up with the air assault, like you're getting these smaller linebackers who can run and if you can build a team that can put a fullback in there big guys and just go right at them heads up

and some of these guys you can run a 4-4 but can you take on a fullback in the hole? Well and that's the thing. It's almost like because it is a copycat league some people get so down that road that if somebody breaks the mold and can do that effectively what Derek Henry's doing right now and that's an anomaly.

Yeah. There's only been a few big backs like that. Yeah, true. true but you have to be successful yeah i think if you do it because if you're not successful you're going to get crushed in the media on social media about because it's by the analytics it's not yeah it's not it's not it's not pretty yeah i mean getting four yards isn't pretty anymore sustained drives is not something like it's not you're on your fantasy guys they're gonna like you know when you build your team you know inside out mean like your your guards like a really

smart center you know guys that can do all these combinations but i mean you can be you I think he can be very successful. I think if your run game is dominant, I think this is classic 101 football, if your run game is dominant, then your play action game is crazy. Like you get a fast guy that can hold up. The Vikings got where they got this year.

I mean, and you know, this Stefansky thing came up and we can get to that. But talking about trends, obviously tight end here and more of a throwback tight end. You could block your ass off. Not everybody can do that anymore.

In fact, other than Kittl, you know. Yeah, Kittle gets after it. I actually enjoy watching play because he sticks his face in there. Like he's not just doing it to get through. Like he's legit trying to drive guys off the ball, like finish guys, laugh, shove. I mean, he's as a tight end who played the position, like I actually enjoy watching him. But the only reason he's allowed to do that is because he can catch the football the way he catches the football.

Now, I even in my 11-year career, when I got there in the beginning, I would play like that guy in San Diego, that big guy. with the long last name. Polynesian dude. San Diego? Yeah, he was in San Diego. He was before you. Oh, before me, okay. 285, 300 pounds, tight end.

Algae Crumpler. Oh, I got you. You know, guys like that, you know. Yeah, yeah. There were even pedigrew. Like, I remember guys like that. He was in my class. He was more, he could block.

Yeah, he was long. And he was a big guy too. Big guy. Big. Like, guys are, they're going away from that. So where do you see in there? five and 10 years going offensively in general for that position. It seems like it's been maximally important from a passing standpoint,

but these guys are basically wide receivers. Yeah, I think it's shifted, like especially in my career. It started shifting. You had those basketball guys, like we're going to talk about Gates and, you know, Gonzalez, you come in these basketball guys, and it's all of a sudden, like, these mismatches can be exploited. Like, we can exploit defenses with these mismatches. and in my career, it separated so much where it's like,

hey, we need like a guy who can block in the run game, and then we just need a guy who can run. Right. And we'll just create these mismatches, and if he can just hold up a little bit in the run game, like kind of keep you play a little bit honest. Just position block. Yeah, just like position block,

back side, then we can get you on a linebacker, or we can get you on a safety, get matchups that we like, get guys in space. And I think you have these types of, athletes that are coming out now like bigger, stronger, faster. I mean, I play with the guy, Lederius Green, who literally ran like a 4-4, but like a long strider. Like when he got his engine up and he got his stride down, I mean, he was gone. He was hard to catch. He cut like a basic against the Chiefs and it's a house call. Yeah. Two safeties converge and it's like,

and that's, once again, that's kind of where it's going, that big play, that home run threat. Now, you mentioned that there is a trend on the other side of the ball where I think slower trending but real defensive ends are harder to find anymore guys that play both the run in the past i think that's cam so so as cams one he's a beast i think he's a beast i think he's bosa's one now uh both boses uh now and there's there's a number of guys we're forgetting but those trends coinciding i think it's going to allow tight ends to get away with it in the run game because, as you can see, and listen, Everson Griffin's no slouch in the run game,

but it didn't look like either of those guys are real interested in playing a cutoff block Sunday or Saturday it was in San Francisco. They were getting big movement. Kittle was getting big movement on those guys, and you know as well as anybody, that's six technique, that's easy. That's where you want the guy head up on a reach block

and you get the bump for that zone scheme too. Yeah, the zone scheme. That way you can double up to him. You got a bump. with your tackle coming with you, like everybody's going in unison. You know, Sean Payton, you always would like ride the wave.

You know, and you have thousand pounds of bodies moving in this wave and you just, like a surfer, think of a surfer, let that running back get in there and then just ride the wave. Right. And, you know, when you get in a sixth technique, that's a disadvantage. That's stealing for a tight end,

because I'm gonna, I'm gonna take an outside footwork when I hit that edge, my tackle's gonna engulf you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm one of the linebacker. Well, all you need to do is, And it's not even so much. It's not the bump on the shoulder from the tackle. And for those you listen,

is when you're engaged with six techniques, the head-up, defensive end. And I talked about this the last two pods. I thought that was a big mistake by Minnesota and not getting their guys on the edges a little bit more. I know it's not what they do. But, you know, play them in a tight nine. Let the support guy, you know, play that big C.

Even if it gets a little big, I'd rather do that than get the end washed and five yards off the ball. Now, you look at tight ends changing. Okay, Kittles an anomaly, but what does he do well when you see him blocking? I think he's just aggressive. Like his initial strike, like he's very aggressive.

He's low, plays with a good pad level. But, you know, blocking's a lot of effort. Yeah. Like blocking, you really got to, especially like these tight ends, you're talking about these past catching tight ends. Like a lot of it is you don't want to break your hand or get hurt. I remember talking to guys that like I just don't want to break a finger in there.

But he throws his face in there. Like he's got good footwork, but he really explodes off the ball. He's low and he just gets into your chest. Hand placement's really good. Yes, I'm saying. He gets into your chest and he like runs his feet really well. Like, you know, a lot of guys that can explode off and get tall, you've got these guys can kind of miss, but he's such a good athlete that he can explode off.

He's in balance. Yeah, the counter guys, like the Von Millers of the world are just straight counterpunchers. I remember when I used to play him. I'm like he's so quick, but he's really just wanting to counter off your leverage. He's wanting you to lun, get you a little off so he can go around. And the minute we take that, we'd call it a club or it would be a crash. We had an option in Philly where it was basically it is up to you. Now, sometimes they'd sell it as, hey, it's up to you.

Take that inside move on tight end on an out block anytime you want. But then if you got gas, no, if you got gash, no, no, it was like no repercussions. just do it decisively and a support player will play off you and then you get gashed and he'd be like oh well you should have you got to tell the support player so you know and by the way I think support players who are five yards off the ball should be good enough at football to be able to adjust to your movement if you're decisive but what you're speaking of is totally true taking that crash or or you know making a tight end whiff once early in the game takes a lot of lead out of his pencil and he's not going to be but kittle is never out of balance So I don't think you can crash him. I haven't seen him, you know, land on his face because he gets swam inside, but maybe once all year. I think he does a pretty good job. I love her point because I played in Denver for that half a year.

And I remember talking with Vaughn. And I used to be like, you know, you're annoying to play with because he does that inside move. You know, you're doing an outside zone to him. You're supposed to widening. Like you're in a nine technique. You have contained. And he'll just, he just looked at me just. straight stone call is like they pay me to get sacks and tackles for losses yeah he's like if i go

inside and y'all gash me for 20 nobody's saying anything they're saying go make plays depends on your contract like exactly like big like big players like have that leeway and for a guy like me who's really technical they're annoying like you know you go play at the steelers they're going to be in contained you do outside footwork they're going to do outside footwork you're going to widen them like um so those guys are always they're always fun it's kind of a challenge always always like playing Vaughn because he does so much stuff well but who was the biggest nightmare i'll tell you what the guy i always say is is demarcus a good friend of mine demarcus wear and uh i played with him four years in dallas and the battles i had with this guy in practice that nobody will ever see

when it's like inside run and i'm the young guy like just trying to earn my stripes yeah which which which i'm just going hard yeah and i'm going at him hard and it's now it's paschra and they're putting a tight in with like one of the best past rush for the game like he he's just so explosive like so strong so explosive like and long yeah just yeah good hands I mean I remember him doing single like squats with like 315 and it looked like it's like it's like the bar and it's just like it's just dumb with the bar like that Smith machine you know what I'm talking about where it's kind of sitting there it's ridiculous but he was just he was so good and I just have so much respect. And like I said, that's a lot of me playing against him in practice for four years. I mean,

just a nightmare. And I heard those Dallas practices are tough. Oh, they were grinders. They were grinders. Now, Wade was good. I mean, Wade back end of his deal, you know, Wade was a player's coach. He really took care of you. But when Jason got in there, Jason was real, um, physicality inside run is live. You're in pads. Do you think they ever got worn down? Do you think, I mean, like, do you think there was ever an element to that team I think certain players needed well like I think it made certain players really good like I remember when Tyron got there

you know he's the left tackle he's the young kid like they would bring in pass rushers just to wear him out like they would bring in guys off the street like you just got to give this guy a speed guy and then they'd bring a guy out of the street that was physical or strong just to make him kind of the player he is and I think that's really good for young players The counter side of that is when you have some older guys on your team and you're still just beating them up and they've got all these games on their bodies, shoulders, knees.

I mean, it can be tiring for guys. I understand the philosophy. Like, I understand the philosophy of like you need the physicality. Like we want to be the more physical team, kind of our DNA, our identity. It's kind of like, as I got older too, I'm just like, man, those are some grinders. Even the drills, like, you know, I always talk about people with like our wrists. We used to do ball carrying drills with the linemen

with clubs like punching our wrists. I'm like that was some unnecessary punches on the wrist. Yeah. Like every Friday. And the order you get, the more you're like, I don't, I know what it's doing, but I don't need, I could go sit over there during this drill.

Yeah. And that's the problem is, the coaches, and you saw the Joe Judge press conference yesterday today, he says pads, he says live tackling, And you lead with that in the press conference. If I'm an older guy over 30 and I like Joe Judge, I'm sitting there at home like, darn. Like, I have to deal with this guy.

Like, that's what it's going to be about. But I will say, to a coach's credit, it's hard to tailor a practice plan to everybody on the field. I'll tell you what. I really like, once again. You can't treat every, because the 32-year-olds are going to be one attitude about a drill, the 23 year olds it doesn't matter what you think you're 23 i'll tell you what i gotta refer to to sean again sean Peyton on this and he's just he'd be in camp and new Orleans camps are just i heard they're

brutal you're outside like you can't underestimate the humidity like in the middle of summer in new Orleans like they're awful and they're grinders but sean will get up in the meetings and be like young guys like y'all got to go yeah like i got to see it every day from you guys he's like you older guys You guys pushing 30, like, I don't got to see it every day. I see it. But when I got to see it, like, and he would let you know. He'd be like, today I need to see it. Yeah.

He'd be like, guess what, guys? We're going to do two, you know, these drills. We're going to do two of these live periods. He's like, I need to see it. You older guys, I got to see it today. Like, you know, I have to show it to me every day. Right. Like, but I got to see it eventually, and I got to see it multiple times in camp.

I'll give you some heads up. Young guys, you don't have a choice. Y'all got to go. So, you know, when I was a free agent once or twice, I used to take the Saints, not off my list, but just because I heard the camps were, and here I am coming off two injury riddled gears. I'm like, the last thing I need is to go down there in the bayou and just getting, it's hot, man.

And just getting, when you, like, we even would do that. A hundred milligrams of CTE every day. We would do the walkthroughs, like, in the indoor, and you would just walk out to start practice and, like, the sweat, like, just immediate back sweat. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like. There's nothing worse. It's just like swampy.

Like your whole body's swampy. And I mean, I'm one of those guys. Like, I really did love football. I thought you were going to say, I'm one of those guys that done the shower. No. Oh, gosh. Heck no. You couldn't stand me in a meeting.

But like, I literally love the grind. And I think it's a necessity, especially for a little bit of camp. But there's no doubt when you get older. I mean, it was some, it was some intense practice. Buddy, you should have seen me when I was 33, 34. You would have been proud of me. because I was not, I was not interested in doing the, now when camp, in camp, I'm all about the first two weeks,

I got to prove myself every year. And I'm going to be competitive. You can't put me out on the team period without me being competitive. Yeah, and we were also in different deals. I mean, I was more of a special teams, do what I'm told. And that's kind of my MO. It's like, I'm going to, I'm going to work, I'm going to drive the whole unit.

You know, I think that's part of the reason, you know, they got me into Arizona last year. Like, hey, when I come in, I'm working. Like, I really believe you get in shape and practice. Like, you run your routes hard. Like, you really grind. Like, you do it. And I really do love it.

I mean, I love everything about the game. I love the practices. I actually liked, really did enjoy the hard practices because they are hard. And when you got done with them, like, you really did something. You feel accomplished. Yeah, like when you got done with the practice, it's like, man, it was, that was a grinder. Like, you're sitting around with your boys in your locker. Like, you'd be with your D-line.

Or, you know, I'll do with the tight ends be like, boys that was a that was a doozy did you like early practices in camp i did i did see i'm cool with that but don't make it before 8 a m yeah i like i like getting out there like i like nine off the the cobwebs in the morning but you also understand the later the day gets the hotter it gets so was there like a story down there in uh where would they have camp and metery or yeah right there at the facility or the green bar which i wasn't there then but that was close to my home so two part question was there was well i'll start with this was there one anecdote that you could share with me about camp in new Orleans to illustrate how hot and you know just brutal it was i mean uh all the

top of my head is this was before i got there but they tell a story drew tells a story of the conditioning test most teams do a conditioning test like the first day of camp and you know sean does a lot of like crossfit like he's a big crossfit guy like he's a big crossfit guy like push the sled and then finish it with, you know, pushups, like all these different variations and obviously four cycles, four quarters, typically NFL thing. But they were like the year before I got there, they did this CrossFit thing outside, I think. And they sent like three guys at the hospital. No.

They had like some heat strokes. Like they sent like a couple guys in hospital. They were like, like, people were literally like just, like not literally dying, but they were just dropping. And they were just like, maybe this is a little bit much for day one. in the heat in New Orleans. I'm like, man. Listen, you remember Beelin, right? Oh, yeah.

And that's our boy at Virginia. But I remember we were practicing down in the hole. And if you're a football player, the lower the altitude at your practice field, the worst is going to be. So a lot of these fields are dug in. In Earth City, Missouri, where I practiced, and that wasn't New Orleans, but it was rough.

I mean, it was north of 100 a lot of days. And when you hear the trainers hearing that little yellow thing around with the heat index on it, and they say 120 or 125, or like, you're like, is this safe? At Virginia, though, we used to do Oklahoma drills. And like college practices are brutal. College camps, you look back and you say, my body right now, I could not do it.

Physically, I could not do it. And you did them for a month straight, and they were two days every day. That was different. Al Groh ran camp. Two days. Full pads, two days. You only had one year.

of the old CBA? Two. Two of the camps where it was full pads and then they did the new one. So our careers, we were kind of lucky, but we also got the foundation where we saw what it was like to have two of days in the pros.

But in college, it was brutal. And one day, one of our coaches was down there yelling at somebody who was doing a full body cramp, laying on the ground. You know, when you see a guy in a full body cramp, you know the story, right? Yeah, I love the story.

I love the story. So it's, it's, 105 degrees. We're in the hole doing Oklahoma drills. This is probably the 10th iteration of the Oklahoma drill. Like after a while I was numb to doing Oklahoma. We used to do a drill called Two Spot, which was just,

the Outgrow would start every practice with Two Spot. It was two dudes, instances, whistle, boom. Like just. Every position. Every position. Like receiver, DB, offensive, Laman D-Laman, tight-in linebacker.

It could be hot. It could be week, you know, not week 17. It could be week 10. It could be training camp. You're starting with that drill and you do it over and over again. Anyways, we're doing, you know, Oklahoma. Dude, of course, full body cramp. And if you've seen a guy deal with a full body cramp, there's nothing you can do about it.

Because what happens is it starts in your, in your calf, then you reach down for your calf and your tricep goes, and then you're sideways, and then your oblique goes because you're twisted aside. and then you're on the ground and you can't move. And it's the scariest thing I've seen guys on planes, get full body cramps. It's scary when you're in the moment, but I just can't help but laugh because I've seen so many of them. But it's funny because you know they're going to be okay. In the moment, you're like, oh gosh, we got to get some data rates.

But when you look back on it, like I see all these images, like you said, of guys on planes, like they kind of get out of the chair. You see it happening. It's like a hammeringer like, oh gosh. And then all of a sudden it's like rigormor just kicked in. and they drop. And they're running ice too on my. They're in the exit row, like laying flat. And people are like, yeah, the trainers are running up.

And anyway, so the guy, one of our detackles is on the ground, writhing in pain. He's, he's, what's the word, gyrating. He looks like a sizzling bacon. Like, he's just cooking on the field. Beelan's crushing. And Beelan runs over, and he's like, no mercy. Hey, son, what are you doing, son?

Get up, that's all. And next thing you know, Beelan, I see Beelan's trap. and Beelan twists his shoulder and I'm like, oh no, is Beelan's shoulder cramping? Is his trap? And then it's his neck. And then it's his low back. And then Beelan's got a hamstring cramp.

And then Beelan's on the ground, sizzling bacon, right next to the player that he was just yelling at. So you got two dudes 25 years apart in age. One's a coach. One's a player. But at that moment, they were on the same level. And that was on the field. Hey, the funniest part of that whole story was not watching.

them riding pain next to each other and the irony of it all it was when I walked in the training room they were on the table right next to each other hooked up to ivy bags and it all started because a coach was yelling at a player for having a full body cramp and was calling him soft like you're so soft like you're so weak like I'm sorry there's nothing I can do about it my body has said enough when God created human beings or evolution took over whatever you believe we skipped a step it's like the industrial revolution we went from zero to a hundred with pro football like cavemen we're not supposed to do this there was nothing this is not natural my body has said no i'm not doing it's too hot out here i'm gonna push your body that much it's the force coming back at you too

yes i mean you're going i mean you're pushing these guys are 300 pounders going right at each other it's just something's got to get and the older you get you're in camp you wake up you go outside and all of a sudden you usually stay in a hotel so you go outside and usually you go in through the back entrance because you don't want to go you know players don't go through the front so you don't have to mingle with regular people because god forbid we talk to normal people um you know we we got to just talk to each other for three weeks and stay at the uh at the sheridan and go out through the back exit to this this private parking lot wherever you played i guarantee you we all had this experience you walk out the first thing it hits you in the

morning during training camp is you breathe the 105 area. It hits you like a wet hot blanket and then you smell basically burning garbage because the door to the back door to the hotel the players go through is always next to the garbage. That's like that's like very insightful. That's so true. It always always right next to like trash and it's like the night before they have it all. The dishes piled up and you come through. Right.

For sure. We got we got to be sequestered. That's pretty good. And then you walk out, wet blanket, heat stroke. You're sweating immediately, like you said. Oh, yeah. And then you're like, oh, this garbage smells terrible, but it's not going to smell as bad as we're going to smell.

As we're going to smell awful in a little bit. And so that's training camp. And that's, and on New Orleans, though, there's a couple things floating in the air. You know Drew Brees really well. One thing, tell me one thing that makes him great or an anecdote that illustrates why he's great. I mean, I think he's a technician. I mean, I think he's so precise and he's so well prepared. I mean, you know, like all the great quarterbacks, he lives, you know, lives in the film room, lives to break stuff down.

But the way he goes through a practice is so methodical, like to his steps. Like when you see him in walkthroughs, it's kind of twitchy. He's kind of like jerky twitchy, but I mean, he'll literally go through a walkthrough rep in the hotel where he's taking his drop. And in his mind, he's either like, I'm throwing here, and then I'm coming here. And if it's cover three, I'm going over here. And he'll, like, pump fake and, like, kind of point to you, like, I'm coming here. I'm coming to you next. He's like, cover two.

I'm coming here. I'm coming. And he'll go through it so methodically. And, you know, I think when you watch him play, he gets this, he gets this feel and this this understanding with his receivers, and they do it in practice. And he gets these throwdown, throws down. You see it in the game where it looks like he's looking. looking over the lineman.

I think he throws, I think throw some things blind. Yeah. I think he throws things blind, but he's so good and has done in his mind so many times. Yeah, he's just going to turn, and he knows it's there.

He knows, and he kind of sees a, and he throws it, and the ball is there, and it's unbelievable to see when he can just cut it loose and the ball goes. I mean, he's just,

like I said, he's really a technician when it comes to how he prepares and how he goes through his steps in practice. But a lot of guys in the NFL that are that brand, and he's very branded. Now, don't think I'm going somewhere.

I'm not. I love Drew Breeze. He's very, he's very cognizant of his brand. He's very positive. He's doing the pump-up speeches. He doesn't cuss. But I think what you see is what you get with him. He's actually the genuine article.

Genuine. Where some guys, I'm like, ah, it's kind of, I know you. Like. Yeah, it's not fake. It's not fake hype. And, you know, he got away with some of the pregame talks, but it's a lot of just his, his energy, like ready to get, let's go to battle.

Like, let's get together. Like, this is what we prepared for. Let's go. You know, he's probably harder on himself than anybody. I mean, somebody's, like, he misses a couple throws, and you might get the helmet slam down or, like, some four-letter words, like, mad at himself. Yeah. So he does cuss.

Yeah, he does cuss. Now, Phil does not. Phil does not. I contend that he wants, and I'm not cussing for this whole pod. It's an experiment, but so I'll take a break. One time I heard him say, bitch. Yeah, I don't know if. I mean, I've never heard it.

I mean, I was with him for three years. I mean, we even had a softball league together where we're fired up. I mean, he wore like a mullet coming out playing shortstop on like an old men's league softball team. We're just grinding out there. And you did say that he is. And let's take it one team at a time. So you got the Saints. You've got, you've got Breeze, who's a meticulous technician.

He's a perfectionist. Perfection. And I say that he's genuine because I saw Reggie Bush take a video of him when Reggie was doing a game. before he went to break the record. You saw, he's like, this is why he's great. That's him. And most people, they'd be like, oh, it's so staged.

Like, he knows. It's not. It's not. It's not. That's what he does. On a Friday after walk through, an hour after walkthrough. Yeah, I saw that, I saw that video. And like, the way he was like taking his drops and going through his progressions, that's

how he is in all walkthroughs. So that's how he is, like, all the time. Like, I'm telling you, like, the hotel, you go through the openers, like, everybody starts with like a 15-place script or something. And it's basically you want to get the defense's coverage in. Well, you always go through these openers in the hotel room. He's in the hotel room, like, going through each of his progressions. Like, this is where I'm going with the ball, and this is how I'm getting to you.

And you kind of know coverage-wise, this is what you're looking at. And so I guess I'm wondering then, knowing how much he puts in the football, he's got a beautiful family. I'm sure he's got a ton of passions outside of it. How much longer does he have, and what the hell is he going to do when he gets done? Yeah, I don't. I mean, he's got those three boys that are just wild. I mean, they are full energy, man. I mean, I don't know if you ever, like, after the games.

Was he, like, in the, what was it, the Pro Bowl a couple years ago? He was, like, trying to do an interview, and his boys are, like, on the field, like, wrestling. And he's, like, he kind of gets mad. He's like, guys, like, the game is going on. Right. I'm sure he'll, I'm sure he'll be coaching. He'll probably be out in California, like, Delmore. I think he's got a spot out there.

So he'll move back to Cali, you think? Probably. You know, I think he spends a lot of off-season there. I think they enjoy it there I mean the weather The schools are pretty good But yeah he's ingrained Like when he's like when the season comes

Like you're invested Yeah Like I remember we had a sleep specialist come in Like we brought in a sleep specialist To help guys like understand sleep And you like kind of like a counselor To help young guys But really like informative stuff

And he was like so intrigued by her And was always meeting her like How much do I how much sleep do I really need Because she was like big on like this rims like realm sleep or whatever, REM sleep or something. Ram realm. Something, I don't know what it was. It's but like the first four hours you need to function.

Yes. And then like the next four hours is like where your brain compartmentalizes what you like learned throughout the day. And he's like like a kid studying like how much do I really need? How can I get to the maximum? How can I get to this stage? I don't know all the right names where I'm like, how can I get to this stage? Well, what if I took a nap here and like so you know he's like pushing pushing for time to get all

the stuff that he wants to get in there he's the perfect um marriage of obviously ability um and smarts but also it seems like and there's guys like this in the building and we all know them because in pro football a ton of resources are going to be made available to adult men it's not like college where you have to go see a sleep specialist or uh you know a nutritionist or a sports psychologist like teams have he seems like guy who would take advantage of all of them all 100 because he wants to no stone unturned. So the question I would ask. Any advantage he can get.

Do you think that he's going to be the type that will be able to know, and I don't think he's there by any stretch of the imagination, he looked great in stretches this year. I also think that his arm being fresh at the end of the year due to the injury to the thumb helped him down the stretch. So I think next year will be more telling than this year to see where he's at. Do you think he's going to be a type that can say, this is the time I get out, or do you think he's going to be a type that just is going to ride it to the wheel? fall off. I don't know. I mean, it's hard to say, and I know he always, he always sits back and

tries to weigh, you know, the family, his boys, like where they're at. And I mean, clearly, he's doing it for strictly the love of the game. I mean, it's clearly not for the money or, you know, he's chasing another Super Bowl. I mean, I clearly think he's just dying to get another Super Bowl. It's almost like you win it earlier, like it's almost like you didn't win it at all. You might feel. If you're that competitive and it's been a decade. And just me kind of playing with him and kind of looking at him, I feel like he's always had like, you know, undersized, like, you know, the whole thing in San Diego.

And, you know, it's just like I feel like he's just trying to prove everybody. Like, I'm going to throw for 400 yards on everybody. And he just goes about it that way. I think he came underdog. Did it come from the San Diego situation where he felt like they kind of, That came out, didn't it? Some, like, article of the coaches, that would be the worst mistake you ever made.

Now, there's that. And I believe that. I believe that. I don't know. If you think it sounds like him or not. I mean, I can see that. I mean, he's, I mean, he's fiery. I just, yeah, like, going to, like, Purdue,

like, not like a big, huge school, I guess. I mean, you know what I mean? I just feel like he's always trying to out, like always trying to prove his worth, like, always trying to come out and get you, like, really wants to, like, legitimately wants to go. out and beat you, like into the dirt, like beat you in the ground.

Like, I remember when I first got there, it's funny coming from Denver where our defense was phenomenal. In offense, we're just letting, like, hold the ball, like, get field goals. I get under New Orleans, and at that time, our defense wasn't that great, but he's really, like, we're scoring every time we touch the ball. He's like, I don't ever want to punt. Yeah. And, like, very serious, like, no, when we touch the ball, we're scoring.

And we're scoring touchdown. That's the expectation. And we're scoring touchdowns. That's the, like, I'm scoring touchdowns. Like, I'm going to touchdowns. you up, like, like methodically go through and figure out what you're doing, how you're trying to beat me, and I'm going to hit you with some home runs. And, uh, and I think that's, you know, that's Sean, too. Sean's one of the best minds in the game. So going from, and you've been,

you've played with a lot of good quarterbacks. You can play with Tony Romo. Yeah. Um, who by the way, is about to make bank playing. Oh my gosh. She said like 10, 14 million. Are you surprised at how good he has is at his job? You know what? I'm happy. I'm having for him. I think he does a good job. I think I think he's like colorful like kind of makes fun of himself a little bit. Yeah, he does. You know, I mean? Like it's, it's good. And I'm really happy for him.

The quarterback of the Cowboys is that pressure right there in itself is just kind of ridiculous. It's funny. He doesn't have the Monday night job. You know, Bougar has that job. And, you know, people feel how they feel about Bougar. But I think what, what's interesting is he did. He goes from Dallas quarterback to the color commentator on one of the most popular

networks in the most popular sport in the world and it's so easy to sit at home and crap on coordinators yeah or yeah not coordinators uh commentators it's easy to crap on the coordinators too um he went from what the job that everybody says they'd want but probably is the hardest job in the world was the cowboys uh quarterback to talking about football in front of millions of people every sunday and those are pressure-packed jobs yeah but like I said I think he's doing a good job No, I think he's great. I think he's the best. Does he, is he pretty cool under pressure?

He was, that kind of his thing? I mean, I was kind of understood. I think he really understood the situation he was in in Dallas. As in, like, there's nothing, there's so much media in Dallas, and they have to fill up the slots, and there's nothing better than building this guy up so he can have a bad game to tear him down. And they're just waiting for that slip up to tear him down.

But good news is, everybody likes that comeback game to building back up and it's just this huge like roller coaster of emotion any of these big market teams yeah and it's just like you're the like it's like they always say it's like you're the dallas cowboys I mean they always like when we're there it's like you know the new york yankees Manchester united the Dallas cowboys like big franchises like worldwide franchises and it's like it's hot you have generational fans people who are fans like great grandparents are like die-heart fans and people feed into it like the media is just on you for every little thing and when you're the quarterback it's the top spot you got all the pressure but there's

the upside though too oh it's it's great to let me tell you if you're winning in Dallas you love yeah when you have a star on your helmet and you're in Dallas and you're winning life's pretty good man it's pretty nice you can hunt wherever you want yeah you go hunting I'm big hunter like you get all these ranches letting you come down but the restaurants are nicer like you You just, people want you in there. People want to be around you. Yeah. Like I was drafted there, so I was a young 20 year old there.

It was pretty nice. Yeah. And of course, honey, come on, man. Charlotte'sville. I'm wearing camo pants, Malsi Ogh. You probably just walked right out of the woods. Was there one cowboy and there's a ton of personalities? I might have a feeling who you might say, but that was the most misunderstood.

Ooh, misunderstood? Who are you thinking I was going to say? Well, I'll let you think about it. I want you to tell me who you thought I was going to say. I think you were going to say Des. Misunderstood. I, listen, I'll tell you what, Des actually is a grinder.

Yeah. Which is like, I don't know how people, I don't know how people perceive Des like with the media. I think the perception is he's a wide receiver divo and it's not true. Yeah. He's actually a tough-ass football player that was super competitive. I think,

I think Des needs good people around him so he can't scatter brain and go in different directions. But when he's playing football, like he loves the game. I remember when he was a rookie, like he hated to be tackled. Not in the sense where he hated the contact. He didn't think people could tackle him. He literally in his mind, practice game was like, y'all are going to have to bring three or four people who are going to get me down. And we used to be on special teams, be like, eventually, man, on special teams,

you got to go down. Like, I think he tore his ankle up doing that. Right. He would, like, wrapped up and he'd still be spinning and twisting and contork. And I'm like, you're going to get hurt, man. And I was like eventually it's like they got you, especially on teams when guys are getting a 60-yard deal. But he just won the ball. He always wanted to play catch.

Like I like Des. I was always throwing to him. Little known fact is we had some quarterback issues. And I was like the emergency quarterback. Every time he's got like a receiver like emergency. Like worst case. The Eagles could have used you. Yeah.

Like worst case. So I used to throw slants to him after practice on Fridays that one year. And like he was the greatest guy. He was like, oh, I love it. He was like, JP, we get in there, man. I'm gonna kill him on the slant, man. I'm like, Des, dude, I love you, bro. Just keep me and you, man.

You guys were cool. Well, that's why I had a feeling because, you know, I think people think of Des is this big issue because America's team playing in the position where you do have a lot of divas, big personalities. But for me, I always looked at it like, I'd rather have to reel somebody's passion back in than make them care about busting their ass on the field. And his problem was never effort.

but I think some people you look at it. He gave great effort. He worked hard. He could really catch the football. Like in his young career, he was like the passion thing. He would like getting arguments with like the opposing coach. Or like just like I'm gonna crush you up. Sean Payton gets an argument.

Oh he gets fired up too. He gets fired up too. But we used to have to like rain him in like I just always remember like that is like, stop wasting energy. Tell him this guy you're gonna beat him. Just go beat him. Yeah. And I don't know.

Yeah, you're yelling. Don't waste your energy now. Like it's a long, it's a long game, but I'm fired up, man. Like he could really catch the football. I mean, I really like, like I said, he needs good, I think he needs a good structure in place for him to keep him. Like, it's just everybody gets there. You have bad influences in your life.

And I think he just needs a good structure to keep him and kind of focus. But once he's there, I mean, he's. So who was? Was there somebody that used to catch a lot of unnecessary flack and you thought was? I mean, there's so many guys. that are, I feel like, I feel like the question was guys that are like misunderstood. I'm not sure exactly the way. Well, Marty was very misunderstood.

You play with Mark Charles Bennett. Marty might be misunderstood, but also perfectly understood at the same time. I feel like Marty's got a lot of, a lot of different avenues, a lot of different personalities that he taps into. Uh-huh, uh-huh, he sure does. But like 6-6-280 pounds. Could have played tackle. Could have played tight-ed. Oh, he used to play basketball with him all the time, doing 360 ducks.

I'm like, that's, that's not right. Yeah, that's not right. I don't have that in the tank. So you played in Dallas and then you played in San Diego. And this is when I first called today, I said, you want to hop on the show? You see who retired, your buddy, Antonio Gates. What sums him up?

And, you know, a 16-year Hall of Fame career, all that stuff. But the personality, because I don't feel like anybody knows him. Oh, he's a great dude. I mean, you know, football-wise, I was talking today, football-wise, his ability to stop and start, I feel like what made him so great. that in Philip Rivers. Yeah.

Because them two were like two kids in the backyard playing ball. And he had that leeway. We're talking about like with linebackers. He had that leeway to like when I have you beat, you're beat. Whether that's at five yards or 12 yards. Like when I run a corner route, I'm breaking it at 10 yards, give or take a yard. That's where I'm breaking.

If that's what the sheet says, that's what I'm doing. Yeah. And Tonya is like, I'm going to play basketball and I'm going to find your leverage. And when I beat you, then I'm breaking. And Phillips going to have that quick release and sling it to me. and we're getting the first down. So that's football-wise, personality-wise. I love Antonio, man.

He's always cutting it up, always laughing, a very likable guy, a great locker room guy, like always playing cards, like playing the little basketball games, like chopping it up with young guys, old guys. Like, it didn't matter if you were just got there as the undrafted rookie, he'd be like,

hey man, like, shoot a couple foul shots on a little mini-hoop. You know what I mean? And his laugh is very infectious, just like always wants to laugh, like crack a joke. Really a good team guy, great teammate, like had a lot of dinners with him, hanging out, played a lot of cards on the planes with him. Is he any good? He's pretty good.

He's pretty good. He's got some of JP's money? I used to claim he would cheat in spades. We played a lot of spades. I'd be like, stop giving signals, man. Like stop giving the signals. Like spades, if y'all know the spades, the partner game. And it's a notorious cheating game.

I stay out of that whole. thing um you know because i look up there on the plane i've various times in my career scene guys gamble a lot of money away oh yeah yeah i mean i try to stay out of the big like the big one was boo-ray which is like a version of spades and i'm just like that's that money gets crazy i mean yeah what's the craziest you saw the money getting i mean we're not going to put a name on the i won't i won't yeah i won't put it or the franchise we both played on yeah respectively combined 10 franchises i think so you know like seven franchises so don't assume that it's any of the places we play but do you have a high number that you saw and i i had a

flight back a three-hour flight back or a rookie lost like roughly 45k and it was like and a guy that he lost it's don't get off the plane yeah which was funny because one of the guys it's like an i o you game which is so funny it's like dumb and dumber like i oh you and you've got these guys literally with these little napkins of like, I owe you 10 grand. That's a car. It's like stupid. It's exactly what he did. He rolled in.

He was like, I'm going to go buy me a car with my Burey money. I can't tell you how much money he won. But he was holding the big note on that 45K. And he was like, I'm just going to go buy a car. And he told him, like, drive it. I feel like if you take $45,000 for me, you're going to get it. But I'm going to have to fight you just like, I'm going to fight you. I'm going to fight you because I'm so mad at you.

And then I'm going to give you the money in principle because I lost it for being an I couldn't sleep. That's I would never, it would be awful. That's ridiculous money anyways. So, Phil, might be his last year, might not. What's your read on that? I think he still wants to play. I think he still wants to play.

I mean, he's so competitive. He's such a competitive dude. And I think if he gets the right opportunity, the right situation, I mean, everybody keeps saying the Colts thing with Frank, because Frank was out there as quarterback's coach in our OC. A lot of guys actually from that early San Diego team I was on coaching out there. But I mean, you know, he likes Tennessee. You know, he's kind of from that area.

I think Tanahill's got the good. Easy, man. I think my boy Ryan Tanahill has got that on locker. Yeah, I mean, they're looking pretty good right now. It's just a lot of. You think Indies' possibility? You think maybe Tampa with Bruce Ariens? He did the Carson Palmer thing where he had a guy who was up there in years.

obviously Carson wasn't as old as Philip is right now, but I could see that. They got weapons down there. Defense is pretty good. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of options. When you look at the outside of football, though, I mean, he's got like, oh, my gosh, what is that? Like a 13-person family now?

I mean, he's got to uproot a lot of people. Yeah, it's like, I think he has to weigh that in. You get to these guys that have these family deals, you know, and they moved to L.A., I don't think he was a big fan of the move to L.A. I know. I think he wanted to stay, like, he wanted to stay in San Diego. He thought it was San Diego, and he wanted to be there. I think he might even have a place down in.

So we might be a lot of them. And you know who's down there. You know who's down there? The quarterback whisper. He's been whispering to James all for. And James doesn't want to throw the ball to his teammates. He wants to throw the ball to the other team. I think that him, if Phillips still got it physically,

in Bruce Ariens' offense, one or two years would be a nice way to ride off in the sunset for him. I mean, I'll come out of retirement and go down to Tampa and play. I never actually said I would come out. I would come out of retirement to go down there and play with you and Bo Allen. Oh, that would be awesome. If Philip Rivers goes to Tampa, let's go. Now, with Phil, we said he doesn't cuss, but he's wildly competitive. You told me a story about softball. Oh, love it. We got our softball team was great. he wore like a mullet like at the band with a big mullet wig um and like not a good shortstop either like you want like a real mobile nobody here's thinks that philip rivers is a mobile quarterback but he did

but he was our he was our shortstop man he was our short stop and he could still sling it over there but he made sure oh yeah he could still get it over there but it was like so competitive i remember a softball game we literally lost in like a championship game or something and i'm like you know me i'm so but I'm like, I'm fuming. Like, I don't want to talk to. Like, I'm ready to like punch somebody. But there's like families. Yeah, it's like, it's like an old, like an old man,

like an older gentleman's league, should I say. And we're in the parking lot and me and him just sit in the parking lot for like 30 minutes and just talking about like what went wrong with our softball play. I'm like, I'm so mad. He's like, I'm mad. He's like, we're going to do. We're going to play bass salt. Like, what do you want to do?

Yeah, he's like, yeah. He's like, yeah, he's like, we go win at another sport. What can we do right now because we're fuming because he lost the. The softball game. The funniest thing about the whole thing is that the elephant in the room was that he was a crappy shortstop and not athletic enough. I didn't think that he was a good. No. It was a good fit, but you're the captain, man.

Yeah, you're the captain. You're playing the shortstop. I'm good enough to be the shortstop. That's it. And I can do it. That's it. It was a legit softball team, though. I'd say we had Danny Woodhead out there in center field, him and Eric Weddle, like, don't hit the ball in the air.

Somebody's catching it. And we're bad. We're bad. We struggled. Our back. Weddell should have been in the shortstop. Or a second baseman, easy. Weddle played center.

Him and Danny were like, you play with like four outfielters. He's played an extra player. So they were like our two center fielters. And they caught everything. I know how to do stuff. And Weddle could crush. Weddle is one of the best all around athletes as far as like basketball, golf. Yeah, I can see that.

He can do like everything. Like he's one of the best. Sports guy. Pound for pound just go out there. I can play it. Yeah. Not me. But our back lineup in that softball team hit a lot of pop-ups.

Like, come on guys. Well. Can everybody. to be a home run hitter. You know what I mean? You got to know your role sometimes. Know your personnel. So it might be some big changes coming in L.A.

I keep saying San Diego because we're toggling back. Now, I don't know that Phil retires, but we were just talking about a very shocking retirement in Luke Keekely. In fact, we all learned about it as you walked in the building. What do you make of these guys leaving early with health concerns? And then you, somebody who, when we talk about this very openly, before the struggles that come with retirement or am I done or like, you know,

we both left the game this year. What do you think about the mental side of it, the fear of breaking your body, of staying too long? I think it's per individual in each case. And each guy, I think the information is out there. And I think guys now are a whole lot smarter than I am. Yeah.

Don't study. Like, was. Like, they really study. These concussions are serious. Yeah. I mean, the research is out there. They're pretty serious. Like these injuries, I mean, we all know players that have played and played too long.

Yeah. I mean, I played with the lineman one time. I remember he retired. He had a bad year. And we were out having some drinks one night in the offseason. He was like, I should have retired. He goes, I played one year or too long. He's like, I'm not going to be able to play with my son.

Like, he had a bad hip. Like, he worked on this hip, and he just kept playing through it. And it's hard for me because I'm always been the guys like, I just love it. Like, I'll play until I can't play anymore. Right. Like if somebody called me up, so you want to come hit some people? I'm like, yeah.

But I think people now are smarter. They understand their bodies. I think people understand that there's a whole lot more to life after football. Right. Which is something I never, I was always just like, I just want to play. I want to hit. Like, I never thought about busting the wedge. I was still a wedge buster when I first got in.

And it's just like, and I used to kind of pride myself on it. Like looking back at it, It's like, you know, Washington used to always run the four-man wedge. And they had like Seleck and Alexander. They used to like knock people unconscious. There's a play where Sean Lee got knocked unconscious. And I used to like was like, well, it's my job. He'd be like, dude, go down their head.

I never was thinking about my head. I was thinking I need to blow this detackle up running full speed so we can make a play. Right. So to your point, I think guys are way more conscious than I was at 22. I was just trying to, whatever they told me to do, run through the wall, I would do. I think guys are like, listen, running through the wall is great until my head's done

and I'm in my late 20s and I can't remember anything. Right. And we both have friends that we talk about who are like, dude, I forget stuff. Yeah. Like you're 20 years old and you like can't forget your kids at school, you know what I mean? And that's like, it's like sad to talk about,

but it's like, ah. It's also something you gotta talk in terms of, we only know one, thing and that's like I don't know what how forgetful I'd be without football I have ADD dude like I have ADHD I think we all do so that we can't ignore that factor so when I forget that the shower's on and I go downstairs to cook cook eggs or something that probably happens if I'm an executive at a local bank like that's just the way I'm wired so but I think what makes it scary is Our antennas are tuned to look for things that are signs of,

all right, I'm losing my mind. Or, you know, maybe I got hitting the head too much. And that's what you think about. Like for us, we think, well, there was a cause and effect to it. Like, wow. Like, my wife forget shit. My wife never got hitting stuff. Stuff, yeah.

You cussed one other time, too. I let it slide down. Really? Yeah. What did I say? It was the A double S. A hole. Yeah, but it was.

I was trying to. not say the S word or the F word. So that's pretty good. I mean, not saying the F word is good. I mean. But I forgot to the point. It's all good. To the point. You forgot. Ever forget. Happened to me. Ron White. So what were we talking to? But I think there's that. And then there's also the existential crisis of leaving football. Something you've been doing since you're a kid. And we both on different levels to probably struggle with it, you know, quietly or out in the open. It's not easy. And there's no easy way to just. It's not an easy. It's not an easy. It's not an easy. transition.

No. But, and like, some people say, like, the courage or the ability to walk away. I mean, Luke is, like, he's one of the best linebackers playing. Yeah. I mean, I told you this, like, when we found out and I walked in, I'm like, I used to, like, there's some defensive guys you watch on film that you enjoy watching. I'm like, this guy, his reads are so quick. It's like he can't ever do the same thing twice to him.

Like, he'll run one play and you might get him or it happens. And as soon as he sees it, like, the play. is like just starting and he's like you know what screw this i'm shooting this a gap and i'm tackling you for a loss and it's like those instincts those abilities to see stuff with the athleticism oh yeah i think he was just really good but i remember the earlier podcast the one where he got hit and uh he was emotional which is a side effect by the way it is and i've seen a couple guys but i never want to assume that it was he could have been frustrated yeah but i think it was but i've seen a couple guys get hit and that's kind of a reaction and that's just scary to see and that's got to be

scary for his family like your like when you see that when you see a guy go and it's like it's like when you see a boxer you got knocked out exactly it's like it's it's scary you worry about your mental health for the longevity of it i mean i'm sure he's made unbelievable money there yeah eight years but eight years wait a 28 i think i saw yeah it's it's it's it's early for football players especially of his caliber and even like listen you like I said you got kids imagine you go back you take one hit the wrong way your kids are old enough to see you on the field twitching or like yeah you don't want to like you don't want to see that or you get up crying from a concussion like that's just like

that stuff can scar people you know like and that's the reality of the game and we love the game I mean I I you know I when I walked away and we talked about this a lot like I was a little bit torn. I hated so much of pro football, but I still love Sunday. And I still know I could play still. I think we both feel that way about, you know, respectively, you know, we both think we can still play, but, you know, getting out of the game with your health and, you know, spending time with your kids and you got kids, it's, it is a great tradeoff. I mean, I think summing up retirement for me, and it's weird, it's your first fall back in Charlottesville. First off for you from Bath County, Virginia who hates electricity he hates you know like he I don't like crowds he hates

he hates TV people bumping into you has always been like he's a log cabin guy oh 100% I always I always say the last frontier like if my wife would be up for it I could get a live like that I'll niki is the same all that absolutely in her own right was a tremendous athlete really great soccer player professional American here all American UVA so she so we we hit it out of the park we have athletic. No doubt. So our kids might be athletic. Oh yeah,

and she puts up with me, which is the saying in itself. And that's my point is like the twisting of your arm to move to a city of 50,000. Oh, yeah. Was like you'd have thought you were moving to, you know, I don't know, Shanghai. Yeah. From Bath County. But this is your first fall.

And I would sum it up like this. For me at least, it's okay, man. the highs aren't as high, but you don't have the lows. It's just smooth. It's smooth. And if you can get used to live in a smooth life and we're conditioned to live in this highly,

I don't know if there's a word, adrenalized or adrenaline, like your adrenaline is constantly working as a pro football player year round. You're never comfortable. You don't, even in the off season, it's a dark cloud is looming over you. Am I doing enough?

You know, what's going to, the month before camp. Always there. Good enough shit. You're used to being under stress. So it's almost like when they take the stress away from you, if you don't think of it the right way and identify and be self-aware with the fact

why you're uncomfortable is that you're used to being stressed, it's okay to be relaxed and to be a little bit bored sometimes. I think that's what guys struggle with as much than anything. I don't think you can handle that well. I don't think you do good with boredom. I don't do good with boredom. That's why I'm doing a podcast. Yeah, I think you have to have.

Am I'm pretty good with that. Right. He needs to like, yeah, this dude's insane. I mean, he was at 4 a.m. and we're here doing a podcast. He's like grinding. So anyways, I just think that's retiring in a nutshell. We can get another time in depth on retirement.

Before I let you go, you're a great football mine. You look at these coaches. You know a little bit about them, probably varying degrees. Give me one pro-hire you really like. Stefanski got hired today. Judge last week, you had Rule come from Baylor. Is there somebody that jumps out at you? I mean, I like what the,

Baylor guys saying like I've watched a lot of his a lot of his stuff at a collegiate level but I always hires it's like how are you going to how are you going to do with this team? Yeah you know how is you know you come into Dallas and now you're a part of the Dallas Cowboys yeah and how is your offense going to work with this game this guy I literally it's so cliche but it's like every team has got its own little deals own quarterback run style own DNA how much can you you know NFL difference I can draft my personality right I can maybe draft more of my personality to fit in. And it's just so different.

You know this. The NFL, like winning and losing is so tiny. Yeah. And some of those decisions the head guys have to make, like, and just be right. There's no 41. There's no 41-7 games. I mean, there's a few. But it's like that fourth and inches that you went for or didn't go for or this situation,

hey, I'm telling my OC, hey, you got two downs to get it now. Or, hey, we're not punting here on the fringe. either going to get it or not you know those little decisions in a game can be huge between you know you're seeing like a nine and seven team getting in or you know an eight and eight team you know i mean like a team sweeping in or you're being you know you're at the bottom end of it yeah you know now you're seven and nine and you have no chance and to your point when he's a bailer he can one week he's he can play a cupcake and when you're in college you get a week off the stress and that was just and that was just the guy that i was watching today i think i was watching some some talk he had and

I was like, hey, he's saying all the right stuff. They all do. It's just, yeah, and it's just, it's, you know, I compare to people that I've been with. And, you know, I think you know this. I have a high respect for Sean Payton. I think he's one of the best offensive minds in the game. I really do.

In history. And he just, the way he breaks stuff down, the way he can, like, and the way he talks to players too. Like, you know, every player's not treated equally, but every player's treated fairly. Right. Like, he knows he can jump my butt and it's just made me more productive.

Right. Like, you know, he knows you can be like, hey, I don't like it. Like, I don't love it. Like a tick wider on this motion to get this slant a little open. Or maybe we need to move. And, you know, the stories of him at 3 o'clock in the morning, like, rolling in, and they do an hour or two hours on one play.

And he'll be like, I don't love it. We're scrapping it. And then he's like, comes back. It's like, I fixed it. I fixed it in my mind. And this is how we're going to do it. I fixed it in my brain. And then you, you'd,

you run it on the game and you have all this window dressing to throw a touchdown but it's like that's what wins game yeah and so like i really respect him but he's he's proven it's hard to like it's a it's a crash it's like it's like so hard to say i like this higher and all the reason like i said all right through his name i was of watching some interviews you know you probably you probably like the last thing i'll ask you because you know joe brady of course the ls ucaught that was formerly with the Saints, and you knew him from when he was young in the game. He was 30 years old.

And that was like his first gig. He was basically like an intern, assistant. But he spent a lot of time that tight-in room for two years. Like he was in our tight-in room, mostly breaking down film with us and stuff. So you know him. One, is he going to be, is he going to work at the pro level calling plays? Two, was it him or was it Joe Burrow this year? I mean, he had the guys.

It's a lot easier when you have the pieces, man. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think you really show a coach when you don't have the athletes and you're successful. That shows your coaching. And there could be a little more pressure when you do have the athletes because you're supposed to succeed. So I think Joe did an unbelievable job in New Orleans of studying,

understanding what Sean did, digesting it, taking notes, learning how to do that run game they do. But the past game, the understanding. standing space. I think he digested that, did it well, and then he went into like a perfect storm. You got the receivers, you got a guy that can throw, any throw,

big arm, can throw the home run, can throw the touch underneath. And when you have the athletes, and then you can put a system in, it's really good. It'll be interesting to see what he does when he's now in the front of that room. Yeah.

You know, guys are looking at you. And you're 30. Yeah. And then he's never really had any failures either. It's all success. You're undefeated as like a past game coordinator. What's when the stuff's going bad, how you're going to counter it, how you're going to, it's just a different game.

And there's the resentment factor of, you got this job easy, the perception. So we'll see how that goes. Yeah, I wish he, I hope he does well. Like I think he's likeable though. Yeah, he's likable. He's smart enough to understand, hey, I'm going to learn from these guys and I'm going to, he implemented it. They won.

I mean, you're undefeated right now going in. I hope he does well. You're 30 years old though I mean you're going to have guys older than him And you're checking your temperature Yeah and you got to make sure And that can be a

That can be a pressure situation I remember when I was in San Diego I mean we had a first time head coach And it's like you know It takes a little bit to understand You're standing in front of a room With some grown men And you got to

You can't fake a message in the NFL I think in the NFL I think in the NFL you can't fake People will call you out on it They'll let you know It's a very upfront deal which is why another reason why I love the business. It's like, you know, you call people by their first names a lot.

Like, it's like, hey, like, we're in this together. We either win together and if we lose, we're all getting fired. So let's just, let's work together. But hey, man, he's going to go there and figure out how they do it. See how they sling it around. He'll go get to C-Shon twice a year too. All I know is David Tepper is not messing around. And this guy here knows about as much football as any dude I know.

I mean, because you play with a lot of great quarterbacks. You've played with some great coaches. So great insight. Anytime you want to come back to the studio. Yeah, man. Coming to the big city, I know you're in the outskirts now. But traffic's out of here, so we're good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I kind of like this late night thing. I don't know if Cowboy Reid likes it. Thanks for stopping by, bud. Appreciate it, brother. Yeah, yeah. So that was John Phillips. One of my favorite people, again, roommate, teammate, 10-year NFL vet, really good player.

Also, really bright football mind, and played with Tony Romo, Drew Breeze Phillip Rivers played for Sean Peyton a bunch of a bunch of really good coaches a lot of coaches

who are in the news right now Jason Garrett so it was really cool having my buddy in and also really worldly guy when you get past the camo pants camo hoodie

camo bed sheets all that stuff he is the real deal though he's not a fraud outdoorsman He's like, he's like a Cabela's mannequin came to life and just went out in the woods and lived there intermittently. But he's very worldly, very bright guy. Also, I've been known to Don Camo before.

It's not like I'm, there's not, I got nothing against that. I love to hang out in the woods. But I'm like this training wheels outside guy. This guy is like part wild animal. So if you like having John Phillips on, we'll have him back. I haven't checked with him on his schedule and availability, but I will promise that. Also, if you like any guests we've had, comment, I do read that from time, time, although it's not good for my self-esteem if they're shitty comments.

So try to be nice. If you think of a guest that you'd like to see on here and you haven't seen before, let us know. I was going to talk about the Rooney Rule, and I was going to talk about Stefanski. but we're going to put that in a totally different pod that we're going to release later today. We're running along. JP was supposed to be like a 20-minute interview. You kidding me?

College roommate, it's going to be an hour. So stay tuned for that one. It's going to drop later today. It's going to be all about, you know, the Stefansky hire, but how, you know, it plays into and relates to all the Rooney Rule chatter this past week. By the way, I think it's a good hire,

but we have to address the elephant in the room, which is the lack of black coaches being hired as head coaches in the NFL. And there's a lot to talk about. So 15 minutes when I'm going to do it. Check it out later today. Also, look for us on Friday, dropping, or Saturday morning, dropping another green light pod,

another live watch this weekend, with Macon and friends. Maybe Coach Wookie, maybe another surprise guess. We had got who do we have the first week. We had, yeah, Rob Ninkovich. Then we had Stephen Jackson this past week. So we had Big Cat surprise, surprise guests. So you never know who's going to pop up in these live watches.

Check them out. Check out everything we got going on on chalk. Thanks for listening. And please, later today, I'm going to talk about the Rooney Rule for an hour. If you're going to open it, don't complain about me talking about race. Okay? Deal. If you're going to complain about me talking about race, just don't fucking open the video.

I cussed. Sorry, I'm supposed to not cuss for this whole pod. I'll probably cussed later in the second video. But check it out. Please listen. hear me out anyways take care check all our stuff out