Green Light with Chris Long - Green Light Exclusive with Jeff Fisher

Episode Date: January 4, 2020

1:00 - Catching up: Fisher on Social Media, Fisher and Chris working on the Rams. 6:00 - Pranks. 10:53 - William Hayes. 15:25 - Titans vs Patriots, NFL and Jeff Fisher in Nashville. 29:02 - Brady and Belichick. 37:27 - What do you miss about coaching. 47:17 - Quick Hitters: Facial Hair, Outdoor Bucket List, Most Underrated Players About Chalk Media: Following the unfiltered voice and vision of Chris Long, Chalk Media is the interactive online community for you, the intelligent and humorous sports fan. Driven by access, Chalk delivers a unique perspective that cuts through the canned talking points and provides a variety of content from your favorite sports and entertainment celebrities. Here at Chalk, we don’t take ourselves too seriously, but we are rooted in challenging the perception of professional athletes. We embrace the “real” with a unique combination of humor and intelligence. Chalk is a community with a voice beyond 240 characters that brings a perspective and vibe to a traditionally brash and boastful sports media space. Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more. Nothing is off limits at Chalk - hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Greenlight. This guest is awesome. I got my coach, Jeff Fisher on here, my former coach, longtime NFL coach. Not only one of my favorite coach is one of my favorite people, and he's joining me at technical difficulties at his farm in Nashville. Now he's over at. Where are you at right now? My daughter's house, Sarah and Justin Millers, and my granddaughter.

It's good to see you. I love the hat, man. Thanks, man. Yeah, it says JF, but, you know, it's, not Jeff Fisher, it's another thing. I'm glad you got it. So now, Fish, you know, you're out of coaching a little bit. You've taken up social media, which is awesome.

The day I saw my coach on Twitter using gifts, interacting with people, I thought it was cool because it shows people a different side of you that when people see you on the sideline, scowling, looking intimidating, and they're like, what's Jeff Fisher like? I'm like, he's the funniest most chill dude. I mean, he's badass, but he's chill. What do you see on Twitter? What's your social media experience like? Well, here's the deal.

You know, after we have something in common, we both parted ways with the Rams. And I went after you did. So after that happened, you know, I guess the best way to describe it was I had my rear end drugged down the asphalt for two years. And, you know, there's a difference between, you know, constructive criticism, people's opinions and things that aren't true. And so, you know, I just wanted to kind of set the record straight. And, and the needle was so far one side on, you know, the seven and nine and all that stuff that I wanted to move the needle back to the middle. And I wanted people know who I really am. You know, I mean, there was, you know, I had, I won 10 in a row and lost the 11th game one

year. And, you know, I had MVP's in the Super Bowl team and all kinds of stuff. And, but the narrative was always seven and nine and the seven and nine things spun out of the hard knocks thing where I was ripping into the team for some stuff that went on you know at night that were we're team violations and stuff and actually saved the guy's marriage because of it but I catch shit for it so anyway I wanted to move the needle back so it's been a lot of fun and and I not I would say I'm not surprised but there are a lot of really good people out there yeah to come to your defense that think think that take you for who you are actually. And then also there's the whole other thing where like you actually have a voice and you're not like a punching bag or something like you can't talk about Jeff Fisher anymore because

Jeff Fisher's on Twitter and now you've got to stand by your comments. Like if you're if you're giving an unfair criticism or whatever like people act differently when there's actually like a chance that the person is going to see what and you got to stick to the facts more. And and yeah, you had some great teams and when we were in St. Louis, my thing is we never could get over the hump. I think a lot of it had to do with Sam's injury. You know, I thought we were so close. Well, it's funny to bring it up because I was having this conversation a couple days ago and that, you know, before I got there, you guys, now you weren't there the whole

five years, but you guys, the Rams had lost more games than any team in the history of the NFL in five years. I mean, it was, and I remember the first team meeting where I stood up there. I recognized three people. That was you. That was Sam and that was James. Yeah. And it's even.

Yeah. And it's just we went from 2 and 14 to 7, 8, 1, 4, 1 in the division. But it's important to point out, I took the job because of the owner, because of Sam, a franchise quarterback, and the fact that we could build a defense around you guys. And year one, we do well, year two, he tears his ACL, year three, what happened? He tears his ACL. So the question is, what would have happened head, he stayed healthy? Yeah, that, and listen, I always remember that Cleveland game.

because I thought that year when we were coming in we were loaded like we had a badass defense I've had a lot of people that loved the defense I was on in Philly that loved that defensive line now we got to win a Super Bowl

so everybody inflates like everything about the team now we were a great team we were very complete but as far as like the D-line is concerned the best D-line I was ever on was in St. Louis and you all put that together

and our defense played with an edge we played tough and we were starting to figure out how to play complementary football we got Sam rolling and then that that you know Jake who was really you know injury prone towards the end you know a lot of miles on the tread there he got beaten that Cleveland game Sam Torres ACL and that was the first one right or was that the second one that was the second that was the year we were rolling we were going to roll that year yeah but the first one was here before Carolina there was that there was a little stuff going on between you I missed I missed the second half of that game some of their offensive guy I missed a matter of fact You may have missed on that game. Yeah, I did. So anyway, you know, we were on track.

But what we did, what there was, we continued to build. And so we built that team. And, you know, obviously we saw the success or the hard work just the last couple of years. And I'm happy for those guys. But anyway, it's just, that's the NFL and that's how things happen like that. No doubt about it. And you do want to get back into coaching one day, huh? Yeah, I saw I saw the funny the funny clip you put out with the dogs

Where you were feeding you're still coaching that's what I said I'm still coaching yeah Hey you're a hell of a dog trainer um you're also you're also one of the best prank uh I wouldn't I don't know if you're a prank artist but you really like pranks you're a prank connoisseur Is that fair? Well that's the thing that people don't understand is is and correct me if I'm wrong what I wanted to do was when you pulled in the parking lot to the facility. I wanted you to run in the building. We couldn't wait to get to work. Yeah. And that was the environment that we created. And so you got to be able to make fun of

yourself and prank and do this. And you guys took it to another level, which was really fun. But I mean, you were there when, I think you were there when we started a couple, we started OTAs. And, you know, our middle lineback came in a little heavy. And I did that thing. on the stage with the skit stuff. That was totally random, totally spontaneous, but I love that stuff. And I know you guys did too, because you can make fun yourself,

make fun of you guys. And, you know, there's, what you do is you have fun and then you work. Yeah, and you know what I like is you had this thing where, listen,

we had fun all the time, but you had your rules. You had a few rules that you were like, okay, you just don't break these rules. And I describe this a lot when you talk about coaches. Coaches have idiosyncrasies.

And some of them might make no sense. sense to you. But if you respect and love your coach, you just follow the dumb rules that they have. Now, one of the rules you had, I actually thought was a very good one, which was no sleeveless shirts in the cafeteria. I remember the first day I walked out of the locker and probably hadn't showered all day. It was a sleeve of shirt. You're like, hey, man, sleeves. I never walked back in with sleeves on because I'm like, I like my coach. I'm going to follow the rule. Now, there was the rule that surprised everybody was, you don't like rookies singing at the beginning in camp. That's one form of hazing you're not really into.

Explain why. Well, I mean, the background behind that is, if you treat a rookie like a rookie, he's going to act like one. Yeah. Okay. If you haze him and he doesn't want to come to dinner because he's got to stand up and sing because I had to do it. I was a rookie. I made him fake and juggled and sang my fight song the first time I stood up in front of those bears,

and I had to sing every day. And so you get to the point where you rather not go eat. Yeah. Because you got to sing. Yeah. And so the common things that are important to win in are, you know, taking care of your body, eat. So I just did, I just, there's times to play around with the rookies and treat them like rookies.

But around, and in the work area or the work window there, I just want them to be professional. I thought it was unique. And I told people that the rest of my career. I was like, okay, y'all, y'all make rookies sing and that's fun and everybody likes it. But, you know, I kind of saw that side of it. When you said that, that's right. Because we came in the first, your first. year and we were used to we were like hey rookie get up there and you were like no we don't make the

rookie sing we have a lot of fun but these guys were going to depend on them to make plays and as a vet I hope I did this and not necessarily I'm not asking you but I'm just saying in general I hope that rookie and young players that dealt with me through my career would would say that guy took care of me and treated me like a vet I was never big on treating rookies like shit because like you said I'm going to need that rookie and also I had vets that treated me good so why would I want to you know, I mean, and there's a thin line. Now, when you sung in front of the bears, how intimidating was that? I mean, that group.

Well, yeah, I mean, I looked around and I mean, you talk about Alan Page. Yeah. I mean, Alan Page and Walter Payton were in the cafeteria. Yeah. And I'm singing. I mean, yeah, it was intimidating, you know, but I heard about the NFL. And back then it was a little different. Yeah.

Yeah, so I just felt, you know, I always felt, and you learn things along the way. and you learn things by experience. And I just wanted the rookies. Our job, and your job as a veteran, whether you like it or not, is to try to get that rookie up to speed as quick as he can because we're counting on it. We want to win games. And if you just beat him down or treat him like a rookie, he's going to become indifferent. And then you got all the other things.

So it wasn't, I mean, you talk about rules. I didn't have a whole lot of rules. No, but the few you had people, because you don't have 50, you know, you pick, you have your ways. Now we're not talking about football rules. There's non-negotiable ways to play good football, and you have your philosophies and ways to do things. But from an auxiliary standpoint,

there's coaches have to decide which, you know, which push to pee on. You know, like, and for you, you didn't pick 15, but the ones you pick, and I think this is a good coaching philosophy in general, is pick the stuff that, you know, the idiosyncrasies that you think matter and do it intentionally. And it makes sense. Like no sleeves in the cafeteria. I don't want an armpit hair in my lasagna.

Yeah, and plus you have females, you know, they're serving food. And, you know, they don't want to, they don't want to smell your armpits. They don't want to smell William Hayes's armpits. And I wanted to get, by the way, William Hayes, for those of you listening, is my all-time favorite teammate. He was the other left end with me. There was no backup in, and, and, and, uh, starter. In fact, towards the end, when I was hurt, he took my job. I wasn't even mad about William Hayes is a great football player.

William Hayes is one of the most underappreciated football players I ever played with. This guy was as good against the past. He was against the run. He could rush inside out and fish brought him and a bunch of guys. By the way, you brought over Cortland Finnegan, Will, a bunch of guys. Greg brought over guys. Some of my favorite teammates of all time. William Hayes, though, as good a football player as he is,

and he's still one of my best friends, believes in mermaids and does not believe in dinosaurs. Can you explain when that started? Well, I mean, that started back in Tennessee. The mermaid thing started. And, you know, for, you know, for a year or so, when he's standing up there talking about mermaids, you're going, all right, eventually he's going kind of crack a smart like you just did and go, okay, I got you. But no, he to this day has never cracked a smile.

He believes there is such thing as mermaids. Yeah. Well, his, and it's hard to argue with his logic. His logic is that, and I quote, I believe, I might be paraphrasing it, you mean to tell me with that giant motherfucking ocean that there's not one goddamn half fish, half woman looking motherfucker in that entire thing. That's what, that's how

I didn't hear it put exactly that way, but I can see him talking about it right now. It's hilarious. And he deadpans it and he believes it. And no dinosaurs. The government planted the dinosaur bones, as he calls him. Well, yeah, because they charge admittance at the museums, you know?

That's his philosophy. And he's dead serious. So Fish, I'm taking him to Tanzania this spring. Oh, good. Are you taking them up the big mountain? Or you just taking him on a... No. So full disclosure, again, for people listening,

I do waterboys.org. And kind of organic moment here. Fish is the reason, or one of the reasons, that hundreds of thousands of people have clean water because Fish gave me permission to go climb Kilimanjaro, and that's where I got the love for this water thing. You climbed Killip before me. How was that, and was it like to hear one of your players

that's your highest paid players on defense, come to you, your first off-season to say, hey, how's that mountain? And you were like, oh, it's great mountain. I'm like, I think I want to climb at this off-season. You were like, I don't know if I like that. Yeah, when you're going to, what part of the off-season are you going to climb? Yeah.

Well, I mean, I was really excited that you did it. I mean, I did it with a Wounded Warrior Project. Yeah. And I did with Teddy Bruske and some guys from the league, Chad Brown and some other guys from the league. And we went up with four soldiers and I went up with two single amputees. And unfortunately, we went up with like you probably experienced, we went up with 11, 8, you know, 3 got the altitude sickness. We finished with 8, but we had a single amputee finish. One did not. But the cool thing was is we took a spare.

prosthetic leg up to the top of the one that got the altitude sickness and all that cool stuff it was just an amazing experience and I'm sure you you got to the summit as the day was getting locked

sun just comes up and it's beautiful it's beautiful and it's emotional too because I don't know about you including training camp or Greg Williams 40 up downs which I used to train for obsessively and then he would do like 20 the first day

and be like, got you guys, I hope you trained. When I'd get up to the top, I was so shot and so tired and emotional. I'd cry. I wouldn't cry. After we won the Super Bowl in New England, I did not shed a tear. Three weeks later, I'm on the mountain with these vets, you know, because we do our Conquerring Killie thing, and we've had single amputees. We had the first woman above the knee amputee to Summit and Kirstie Ennis.

We had a blind dude summit. We've had all types of people, and you know just watching them will their way up the mountain and lead these big baby NFL players because you weren't there with a bunch of big baby NFL players. I've had some big babies that lead these guys up. It's emotional, man, and it's very cool. So maybe one day we'll go back, maybe. I'm up for it. Okay. Okay. Let's talk about the game this weekend because you're a fixture in Nashville. I mean, if there's one city that you should, that you should be happy to be good in, it's Nashville, and people love you in Nashville. What's the buzz like there right now

with this team making this seven and three playoff push being on this tear? You know, it's really changed, you know, because I did. I actually attended as a guest of the Titans, an early game in September against the Colts, and it was a close loss, and a lot of people were disappointed. But to watch things change week after week after week and then watch them finish the way they did, there was a great deal of excitement here. I mean, I run out and about today, and it was like, Coach, what's going to happen? What do you think? I said, well, as long as the fire alarms in the hotel don't go off tonight, then I like their chances.

The last time I was there in a playoff game, sure. Yeah, they went off at 2 o'clock in the morning and go figure it's only 10 degrees outside. So anyway, I like the game. I like their chances. You know, you can't ever pull against New England, especially in the playoffs. But I like what has come together with respect to the Titans offensively, defensively. If they can cure that kicking ailment that they have, that they didn't address all year, then I like their chances even better.

But when Derek Henry takes charge, which he has the last month or so, I like their chances. because it just simplifies things for Ryan, and that gives them a chance. And you talk about Derek, you talk about Ryan, and we played Tanna Hill in Miami, and it's no secret. I don't know about you, I did not see this coming.

When he was waiting in the wings, and I was saying to myself, I don't think Marriota is the answer. I love the kid. I don't think he's the answer. The backup's not the answer. I played against from Miami. We know who he is now.

How does it happen? Is it a case of, is a combination of Gase's scheme didn't work for him? and vice versa. Is there something that Tennessee is doing different, or is it the complimentary football that he's afforded and the complete offense that they run?

Well, I think this is the central issue here. And when you play them in Miami, you probably weren't concerned about their run game. We weren't. Okay. Even though they had Kenyon Drake, and even though they had your teammate for a year, J. Jaya,

they didn't believe in them. and they didn't run the football. That makes quarterback play hard. And this is not a shot at anybody other than those are two good running backs that went on and had, you know, did some damage in the league. But the difference is with respect to Ryan Taneyhill is they believe in Derek Henry. And he believes him in his self now. And so that makes quarterback play a little bit easier.

Plus I think, you know, since Taylor came back and he settled in after the suspension, He's playing a little bit better second part of year. I think they're better up front. But the Derek Henry, this is the reason you have guys like Derek Henry on your roster is to win playoff games. And I think, you know, that's what, obviously that's what New England's focused on. Right. So if they become too consumed with it, then they're going to be some plays down the field. But that's where they got to start because that's the difference in this game, I believe.

Yeah. And New England's got to be focused on Derek Henry. I think one thing that the Titans can take advantage of is the Patriots have not been great on the perimeter in the run game. If they can run some off tackle stuff and pound the ball on the edge, they could make some, hey. Now, I know the Pats probably load the box. I got to figure.

But play action, Tannenhill has been more aggressive than anybody in the league. 13 yards in an attempt. I figure if they can get that run game going, it's going to be a long day for New England. That's all I'm saying. But would you rather limp in? as the Patriots have done in a home playoff game or would you rather be the hot team on the road?

Well, I mean, it seems like over years, New England comes in. Anyway, I mean, they either limp in or they come in on fire, but the fact is they get in. Now, let's go back to the run game thing a little bit. The last time in a meaningful game that the Patriots had to shut down the outside zone play, the stretch play, was in a Super Bowl. Right.

And they basically laid the rest of the league of blueprint on how to stop the Rams. The difference here is that I see there's more variety in the run game out of Tennessee than there was with the ramps. Okay. So the outside zone is the stretch where you just set your edges, which you were the best at and keep that thing inside, that's not the extent or the limit of their run game. They can do some different things. So there's going to be a chess match in here. interesting to watch because as, as you know, you know, you got, you know, you got understuffs. I mean, you got Breivu, who's done a great job. Look, the last time I got a

check was 2008 from them, so that made nothing to me. But the point is, is he, he has game planned against his former head coach. Right. And Dean Pease is there. Yeah, peas, yeah, as well. The question, I think, remains is that who's going to do the better job adjusting? Right. in the game. Now, they're both going to have their plans. They're both going to go in. Okay, what are they doing differently? How do we change? How do we adjust? Can we adjust? So, you know, you've got to give the upper hand to the veteran staff. But there again, I'd like what I've seen out of Arthur Smith and out of Dean Peas and Mike's staff here in Nashville making some adjustments. Now, there are there are some questionable end-game decisions that I just, seen but that's just my opinion and i'd never second guess a coach because he's the only one that has the information yeah why did that happen but i think the big thing is right now is what are they going to do with with with their their place kicking yeah i mean this is a historic

bad effort this year with with a field goal percentage well hopefully they're they're going to be a figure in the snow which is it seems like it's going to be bad weather that's what i just heard so I could be wrong. Somebody could have been being sarcastic, but let's say the weather's bad. You know, maybe they get a pass there because both kicking games

might get canceled out and we see a bunch of fourth in short situations and plus territory. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. All I can tell you is I was part of the team

that went back, went up there in the snow in a regular season game, and I was proud that we just held them under six. That was the ugly one. Was that the game William Hayes got hit in head

with the football? Oh, no, that was Kansas City. Can you tell that story real quick as an aside. Yeah. Now, this is shortly after, so we go to Kansas City the time prior, and we had two, how about this, two 100-yard rushes in the game. Okay, I got Chris Johnson and Lindell White, both had over 100 yards. When's the last time that happened? Yeah. I mean, it's going. So the next time we go to Kansas City, Kerry Collins is playing, and, you know, Kerry wasn't going to get hit. And, you know, he's standing back there and he doesn't like what he sees.

and the pockets collapsed, and Kerry just cuts the ball loose, and he throws it away. And, you know, the ball comes, like, to my right, from my right to my right, and I go, all right, good job, Carrie, you threw it away. Here we go. It's second 10. But as the ball came over my shoulder, I heard this weird phone. I mean, it wasn't just like you hit a chest or something. It's like it hit a melon, and it did. It hit him right in the temple, I heard.

Well, in the ear, right above the ear in the temple. And Kyle Vandenbosch was already struggling, and we were down to three ends, and now Will's out with his concussion, and the ball hit him. Oh, yeah, thanks for bringing out of it. I heard he thought somebody from the crowd hit him in the head because he was so disoriented. Now, you mentioned Kyle Vandenbos. Is it true? He used to run through the end zone every play.

Is that in practice? He would run like 60 yards. All the way down. He chased the play. He was the hardest playing guy. Was he the hardest playing guy? Yeah. Yeah.

And remember, I think it was Nike came out with these low glare contact lenses. Yes. And they read. And so Kyle wore him because, you know, he had eye issue, whatever. But he liked the sunglasses effect in the game. But he would go out as a captain for coin toss. And, you know, it seemed like every other week, the officials would come. coach are you sure 93's okay his eyes are really red i go yeah they turn red every time he gets on

the field you know they thought he was a mess yeah Kyle was really he was he was awesome um getting back to the game here you've got a j brown right how does he fall that far like what was the did i miss something and yeah i don't know i mean he's got 45-yard plays in four straight game yeah i mean i mean i you know, obviously, you know, you can blame everybody else for him falling that far, but you got to give them credit. Yeah, for grabbing him. And having a chance to

draft. What was the knock on him? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I didn't evaluate him. I like the TV scouting, and he's a big, strong physical guy that can accelerate and go get the ball. And, you know, when it comes down to you, someone making a play,

put it in, just get it close to him, he'll make that play. And he's going to be manned up on Gilmore some, and Gilmore had a tough time last week down in Miami. How do you see that going? Because a lot of times I know the Pats will put Gilmore on the two and double the one. You think there's a wise move if they manned him up on AJ?

It's interesting to watch early in the game to see what the philosophy is, what they're going to leave him outside and get the matchup or we'll try to move him around to create a better matchup. but, you know, Stefan's a good player, and, you know, inside is a different world.

Yes. And he handles that inside. So we'll just watch them move around. But I think they're both going to make plays when the game's set and dog. Now, do you man up if you're, if you're the, the Pats,

are you worried at all about Tannenhills' athleticism to a degree that you adjust how much you play man? I don't, I don't think so. I mean, you have to be concerned. but I mean, you can, you know, you can mug rush or whatever you guys do the best at it. You know, you know how to do that, much rush and keep them in the pocket.

I know how to do it. I know how to do it. I know how to do it. Yeah, I know, but that's where you get. I mean, that's where you win games. I mean, early on, especially on third, go get them on third down. But, you know, on the early play pass downs, you know, make sure you keep in them inside and make sure the ball's coming out on time because then you got coverage to affect it.

But I see him, I don't see him, I don't see any called runs to the quarterback, but I see him, you know, as I always used to tell you guys this, boy, if the quarterback pulls the ball down and runs for a first down to two-minute situation, odds are them winning that drive are pretty good. So they've got to watch out in those specific situations, two minute before the half, before the end of the game, where he's running, using his legs to keep the drive alive. Well, the way those backers are built, the way that they spy guys,

I mean, they're all my size. I mean, whether it's Jamie Collins, Calvanoi, Dante High Tower, or tremendous players. Now, what they don't do is they don't rush the passer that well, truly. What they do is they create pressure, and they don't have guys who win rushes. But they've been right up at the top of the league and getting pressure, and a lot of that's manufactured.

Now, on the other end of it, the Titans have given up a lot of sacks. If you're the Titans, are you keeping a lot of people in in protection? Are you just more focused on getting the ball out quick? Like, what do you do? Well, if you're the Titans, I think what you do is you have to show something a little different on those critical downs, those third downs, the three to six, seven to tens. Yeah.

You know, if you stay consistent with the same personnel grouping, the 11 personnel group in and, you know, try to change maybe a protection here, center to tight end or way tight, things like that, they're going to collapse the pocket really quick. They're going to take advantage of it. But if you show some things that they have been seen, you know, on those critical downs, then I like your chances. That's going to may even include some, you know, play action protection, you know, where you're turning and washing everybody. And, you know, the one thing they can't do and the one thing you guys, you've always been good at it, but the New England, and you can test, testament to this is that, you know, when they're going to keep a tied end in and either six-man, protected free release of back or go seven man protection with a tight end in or play action the tight end should not end up all by himself on the defense event no and and that happens it's still happening in the league and it's frustrating and if it happens if it happens against new england new england

is going to win that down quick yeah yeah no doubt every time i see it every time i see a tight end manned up on a rusher uh especially a good edge rusher i'm always i'm always confused So Saturday, it could play out any number of ways. Let's say hypothetically Tennessee gets the win. What do you think happens up in New England? Do you think that you see Bill leaving? Do you see Tom leaving as a domino effector? Do they really have that window still open up there?

Well, I think, you know, clearly their windows open. Yeah. You know, I think you got a better chance of watching them, or of them potentially moving on, after they win another trophy. You know, then you could say, okay, well, how many more you want to win? Right. You know, exactly.

There's enough, nothing. But you can't speak for that. I mean, you know, they had such a, you know, an iconic, amazing run that I just. It's unprecedented. But, you know, I don't know. You know, at some point, it's going to end. But do they leave together or do they leave one by one? Because I don't know, whenever that is, it's like, how do you, how do you, it's probably

Tom first because of age. I mean, it's just got to be. Wait, I should be asking you this question. You spent a year inside that building. Yeah. Well, here's how I think it'll go, Fish. I've actually thought at different times this year, and I had this crazy theory that Tom would end up

back in San Francisco because of the team they were building. When I looked at it in the preseason, I wondered if things go sour this year, I knew all year that New England was good, but not the way they've been. And people fell for the, you know, they fell for the oky-doke on the defense being historically good.

They're very good, but they were feasting on bad teams. And I said to myself, Jimmy G, I didn't know he'd be this good. Okay, I thought the sample size was too small. I thought maybe Jimmy G. would enter a rut, and you'd say, hey, we built this beautiful football team full of powerful, powerful scheme. You know, we've got Debo Samuel going. We make a trade for Sanders. Like, they can beat you in any number of ways.

The defense is really good. I thought Tom, growing up a Niners fan, might head out to the bay. Now, I've also heard Chargers. I've heard Chicago, you know, as possible destinations. I think it'd be kind of weird for him. I know he sold his house. There's all this stuff going up. And I play with Tom, but it's still shrouded in mystery.

People, they don't talk about it, you know, and that's the hard part. So it is, it's, I don't think anybody can get mad up there at people forecasting what will happen, because we don't have anything to go off of. And Bill, I mean, you've got the Dallas job. You've got the Giants job. Those are jobs that if he wasn't in New England, I would see him in those spots. But Gettleman's back in New York,

so I don't think that's going to happen. I still think there could be some wild card chance he ends up in Dallas somewhere down the line, but does he want to deal with Jerry? I don't know. It's interesting. It's one of those franchises. We can't picture it without them.

And I don't know what it's going to look like. It would be completely different. And I think, and a lot of people are saying the same thing. You know, as you move over and you look at what Josh is doing, you know, just, if Josh is just, he's staying there because he should be the guy to step up and take over for bills. Do you think he stays? Yeah. So I don't know.

I mean, I don't know. It's been a remarkable run and amazing place. One that I have total respect for. You know, I was excited. You got that. opportunity. I mean, I have respect for the craft family over the years, seeing what they've done. And Bill, you know, what he's done has been amazing. They're tremendous. You know, when you look at these coaching jobs out there, which one do you think is the most ready made? If you're,

if you're a coach looking at an opportunity, which one are you like, that's a car I'd like to drive? I mean, that's, they've got it all there. Well, they're all different. You know, the difference here is there, I don't believe, you know, in my personal experience, I stepped into two teams that were two and 14 the year before. I don't see any two and 14 teams out there. These teams are built and they've been built well. I mean, Cleveland has some players. They just have been dysfunctional and need some leadership and they need some stability and they need to figure it out or they're going to continue to do what they've done for the last decade. But they have players. And Cleveland, I think someone's going to like that job because Baker has a chance.

New York. You got a young quarterback that can do things. You've got a running back that can do things. You can through free agency now, you can go in and plug in who you need to plug in, you know, as you saw. Dallas, you know, Dallas is a, I would think everyone would agree that Dallas right now is a 10 and 6 football team. I think people thought Dallas might have been more of 11 and 5 or a 12 and 4 to start this season. Nonetheless, that's a good football team. So it's different. Now, you know, obviously Washington, you know, they made a good decision with Ron. I think the one to watch is Carolina. Now, Carolina probably needs the most work from a personnel standpoint. You have questions at the quarterback spot, unlike the other jobs. Because, you know, usually when jobs open, you know, you've been playing with a backup quarterback and you need to go draft a franchise quarterback.

and da-da-da-da-da-da. None of these are the case with exception of Carolina. And, you know, you just don't know what's up with the big guy. You know, if Cam comes back healthy, then he's still got some years left. So be interesting to see how it all shakes out. Yeah, it's funny. I feel like in this culture now in the NFL, the attention span on coaches and the leash is getting shorter. So to your point, you could have, you could, you know, pardon me using the analogy twice, but you could drive a pretty nice car off the lot. you know that just somebody scrapped because they were impatient and and I think that's what you see and some of these these projects I think could turn around pretty quickly I actually like Josh in in Cleveland because I think what they need there is a people manager somebody who has that New England edge and has like all the knowledge that he got there now to your point he might not leave because he might be waiting but I think the job would mean a lot to him being an Ohio boy too if you've been around Josh you know Josh he's more personable than some of these cliche New England guys,

I think he could manage some of the big personalities. I said the same thing. The Carolina job needs the most work. It's the most question marks. And Dallas, to me, it's like they got a great team, but the window's closing. So you've got to do it now, right? I mean, they're getting older and whatnot.

Well, yeah, they are. But as far as Dallas is concerned, the thing that's different now than, say, for example, when we built the Titans and sustained them, we did that through the draft. didn't do it through free agency. Right. Now you can plug in the pieces through free agency if you have a foundation, as long as they fit.

Right. You know, and you can, you know, you can get over that hump quickly. Yeah. The question is, is really who's making a decision. And it comes down to this. You got, we have 12 teams left. Okay. The one thing that these 12 teams have in common is they have teams that have a GM and a head coach

did a working side by side together. Yep. Okay. And someone would say, well, continuity, this and that, but no. In San Francisco, those guys haven't been together very long, but you know what? They are together. Okay. And I made this comment to the night and you appreciate them.

I mean, every head coach and GM are going to hug after the game. Right. After a big win like that. Okay. But they grabbed each other's asses. Yeah. Okay. When they hugged.

I mean, the point is they're doing this together. So that's what it takes. You have to have guys. working together. The rest of the league, I mean, some of the teams that we've talked about, you know, you got a GM that's just left and one that's going out and one doesn't know if he's going to be there. And, you know, you just, and now who's hiring the head coach and things like that, there's no chance for continuity or stability. Right. And, you know, you got to close the door and lock yourself up in a room and have a plan and put that plan into place.

And that's not, I'm not seeing that, you know, with the other two-thirds of the league, right? right now. What's one thing you miss about coaching and what's one thing you do not miss about coaching? There's nothing I don't miss. The, well, yeah, it would be not being able to see Montana in the fall. I had to guess. Yeah, that was going to be my guess. So I'm one for one. Yeah, you are. I know the second one. And the thing I miss is you guys. Yeah, there we go. That's the bottom line. I mean, I love to come to work every day with you guys, you know. And, you know, I just see myself as what I got. I'm not out there on Sundays, busting my ass,

and putting my career on the line to win a game for a bunch of guys around me. But that's what I miss. And what's cool is to be able to stay in touch with you or, you know, Taborne or, you know, I mean, they're staying touch. It's funny when you get away from football, and the same thing with, like, Woff and me. Me and Woff used to fight, like, cats and dogs when we worked together. And we never did. like, you know, my D-line coach Woff and I, because it's his personality, my personality,

whatever. But when we got away, we talk every week. And I'll be on the phone for 30 minutes with Woff. I love you. I love you, man, you know, that whole thing. It's like the bonds that get created, the people, that's what I miss. You know, like, I miss that. You know, sure, you miss the opportunity to make big plays.

You miss the roar of the crowd or whatever. But the people, to your point, if you're in the right situation, it's a people place, you know? Well, it is. And it goes beyond, it goes beyond the rock. And that's what I think people lose sight of is it it should extend all the way out to the front, to the guard shack in front of the building. Yes. And where, you know, that's where, that's where it's fun and that's where the challenge is, is getting everybody on the same page. And going back to what we said earlier is, you know, it's one thing to have the players hustle in the building because they're looking forward to coming to work.

But everybody needs to come running in the building because it's a fun place to work. And, you know, it's that we versus them. You know, anybody can stand in front of a team after a win on Monday morning, but how do you handle those tough times? Well, unfortunately, in many organizations, in those tough times, those people are pointing at, well, they lost. And that's the challenge. It's cool the organization together.

It's called leadership. And I think that's lacking in the league. Yeah, I would agree with you. And you made a great point. Some of the places I've been, I remember the people that weren't on the roster, as much as I remember Jimmy Lake in St. Louis, whether it was Playmaker,

the equipment guys, you know, silk. You know, our boys and guys that you remember or in like Philly was Big Dom Security. If you ever met Dom, he's the man,

you know, the guys in the kitchen. And you did. You treated everybody really well that way. So moving on from coaching a couple quick hitters before I get you out of here. Competition committee.

You spent a lot of time on it. What's one thing you want to see change? And what do you think of the PI thing? I can't let you out of here without asking about that. You know, I think you, I mean, you have to go to officiating. You know, the one thing that, one thing I'd like to see change with respect to the league is that at some point, somebody needs to highlight the great calls on the field. Because the, as the youth football leagues across the country are staring,

at these NFL players. You have young officials, aspiring officials, that like to officiate the game, that are looking up to a mess. And there's not, you, you, it's a hard job. There are great calls every week. Here's an idea for your segment is, why not highlight a great call?

I mean, I remember about four weeks ago. That's actually pretty good. there was a game where there were three toe tap barely catches, two on the sideline, one, the end zone, and they're all ruled correct. And there were great calls, but no mention about it. So the point is, is we got to shift the perception of the officiating. Now, how do you do that? Well, it simply starts with that type of thing. Because you want people to want to officiate your boys, whether it's soccer or lacrosse or whatever it is. people don't want to do it because people look down and the fish a thing is not a cool thing. Right. Okay.

So, so number one, that would help the NFL. Now, what do you do? How do you do that? I think that's an idea. That's a possibility. Two, I really believe that this mall in my opinion, Dean Blanino needs to go in. They need to pay him. And he needs to be the guy.

Yeah. And he needs to get this thing under control because in my time in the league when Dean was there, that was a good time. Yeah. Okay. You know, it's like the stock market was great, the economy was perfect, and, you know, that was Dean Blandino stuff. Yeah.

You know, because the officials on Monday, you know, you lose or you win. I lose or I win. They lose every Monday. Yeah. The fish, yeah. So here's number one. I'd like to see that change. Number two, who knows what, what they, where they went wrong with pass interference, but they do.

Right. And they need to get that clean done. Yeah. And any time as a rule, as being as part of a competition committee for a long, long time, I was a co-chairman for a long time with Richie, you know, we understood that if you have a knee-jerk reaction and you try to change a rule because of one play, the unintended consequences will be devastating. And that's what we saw this year. Nobody knows what past interferences. Nobody knows whether to challenge or not challenged or whether it's going to go to the box or whether New York is going to change it or what's going to happen. And because of the fact that one play was missed last year and the Rams went on and New Orleans did it. Yeah. So there's stuff there that needs to get cleaned up. Safety's good, I think.

You know, as far as I can tell from an outsider standpoint, but get Dean back in there and recognize how hard their job is. No, I agree. I think there's, we rail on it and I complain about officiating because now I'm, a member of the media, and I also have Twitter. So that's like, you know, double whammy. All we like to do is complain about officiating. I have this theory that officiating has always been what it is, but our vantage point as fans and as people consuming the game

is accelerating past the, you know, acceleration of officiating and proving. And to your point, they need to groom people more from the ground up and make it something incentivize it. Like, I want to do this. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the pool is there. The college football has eight on the field.

You know, there's things that can be done. And everything is political and everything, whether you've got a union here, you got this or that. People don't, you know, it's just figure out what's best for the game and get the best people want to do it and reward them. It is hard. Now, to your second point there, there's a human element. Okay?

And that's part of it. It's subjective. They're going to make mistakes. It's okay. So let's be able to correct the, the, the, critical mistake, which we have the wherewithal to do that through replay, but there's always going to be a human element in the game, and that's officiated, and it's okay. But let's give them the tools, or let's at least at least recognize the fact that these guys, their

jobs hard. I mean, I sat in the, I sat in the meeting, officials meeting and summer meeting with Dean and a bunch of back deep officials, and we watched 20 parties that were either were or not pass interference. Yeah. And 20 guys couldn't make up their mind. It was split down the middle. So if you got every official in that room and they're looking at plays and they can't agree on the whether it is or not, you have to understand that that's how it's going to be called.

Yeah. And so, and that's just kind of, that's the human element in it. And I think that what's great about it. But I just, I feel bad that, that now if a guy has a, a, enforcement mistake and he's enforcing a penalty incorrectly or doesn't get something or something, then that's a problem

because the school book's not that hard. Would you say the Oakland play was like that? The slide play maybe on the sideline. Derek Carr, they were playing the Jags in the last game against the Raiders. He slid down. And I guess when a runner gives himself up, the clock's supposed to stop.

And it slid and he went out of bounds. The clock stopped. and they were icing it, then Jacksonville got the ball back. I mean, they should have got the ball back with like damn near nothing left. I don't know if you saw that play, but check that. Well, it didn't play, but what you're describing,

if he slid in the field of play and getting himself up, yeah. Okay. You know, that clock's running. Yeah. You're saying they stopped the clock. As I understood it, it was like the clock stopped, and he's thinking he's sliding down on the sideline.

He slid inbounds and out of bounds, and I guess they stopped the clock. And then Jacksonville gets the ball back and goes and rips their heart out in the last game of the Oakland Coliseum. It was a disaster. But I agree. They need to fix it. But I also, I see your point, which is that, hey, man, show some good stuff because they do make some good calls.

They make great calls. They do good jobs. I mean, and none of that stuff is recognized. And that's part of the NFL. That's part of society. Yeah, yeah, of course, it is. But, you know, you got, hey, you're going to, the player made either did his job, made a great play. made a poor point.

And so, I mean, that's the same with the officials. Yeah. And it's all, it all should be recognized. So let me, now I'm going to, a couple quick hitters real quick. Last time you did not have hair on your upper lip, Jeff. Well, come on, man. You asked me that before. Have I?

I think it was, it was, I was in high school. I was, early in the morning, I was eating some fruit loops and the cat looked off my mustache. Outdoor bucket list that you haven't crossed off. I have a few places I'm left to fish. I've been really lucky. I've fished from Argentina to Alaska and copmost species on a fly rod. And I have a few places that I'd like to fish. And then I just love the outdoors, man.

I love the mountains. I love when it gets right up there above 10,000 feet and hiking around and not knowing whether you're hunted or you're the hunter. What's your favorite place then? Well, I mean, I spent, you know, the last couple years I spent half the time in Montana. I got into Wyoming for a couple weeks this year, which was cool. And been into Alaska. Alaska is an amazing place.

It's just mother nature is unlike any place else in Alaska. Yeah. So it's cool. I do want to go. I don't know if I can handle the, they say the bugs are bad up there. The flies? You go and where you go. Okay, good.

to tell me then. Okay, so most underrated player from each team you coached, not each individual team, but each franchise. Well, that would have to go back. So I go back to Houston, I guess, most underrated. We got there at the end. Well, I thought Ray Childress was really a good inside, interior player. But we got him at the end of his career.

And I don't think he got his due. there. So I'd say maybe Ray, but then we were still oilers before we moved. We had some good players. You know, I have to say probably through that whole, that whole part, you didn't get to really get to know him. And, you know, I miss him every day, but it would be Steve McNair. Right. You know, just an amazing, amazing man and athlete and football player. Probably not a top three or four. They used to ask me on the time, is Steve a top five quarterback?

This was in year three or four. I go, no, he's probably not a top five quarterback, but he's a top five football player. And so I'd probably say Steve, you know, just with an amazing man and a tragic end to a beautiful life. But, and then, you know, I mean, you know, the last stop. I mean, there are a lot of good players. We had some good ones. Sorry? We had some good ones, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, and unfortunately, you know, when you're having tough times in the franchise and you're not winning games, the attention is not drawn to those really good players. And, you know, they just kind of go off. So I hate to single any out, but, you know, you fall into that category, all serious aside. You know, there was, I mean, there was some really great defensive efforts, an individual effort, and they weren't ever recognized. I still think Robert Quinn doesn't get enough credit, man. He's got the quietest 80 Saxon football. Yeah, he doesn't, and you love him. I love him. I remember, and Jerry and Stephen called me on him last year. They wanted me opinion on him, and you better get it done and don't think twice about it.

It's been huge for them. I mean, he's been their leading, the season's over. He's their leading sacker. He's the leading hits guy, the whole nine. And zero surprised to me. You get that guy on turf, as you know. There's nobody like that 19 sacks season. Dodge each other in the back of the pocket.

Oh, yeah. You know, over and a hundred times you have to do that. We were a little bit close for comfort sometimes. Actually, if it wasn't for Robert Quinn, I don't. It was my, the Green Bay. game. Remember, I took an inside move and he ran by and we ran it and Bactiari

ran and broke my tibia. So that was what sent me out. So it happened to be my bookend. We ran into each other. It was very ironic. You say that. Yeah, but you... We would fish hook with him. We never fish hook with you. I wasn't... Because it's hard

fish hook the other side. Nothing about athletic ability. Well, it was more... When you got one guy that probably runs a 4-5-5 or 4-6. Yeah. But yeah, I always say him, William Hayes, Michael Brockers, who it took him going to LA for people to realize how good he was. Obviously you guys nailed

the Aaron Donald thing. How close were you not to drafting Aaron Donald? I wasn't close at all. There were other people that were close. I know. I know. There were other people there that thought he was too short. No brainer to me. Last question.

Favorite, and I know we had some ups and downs in St. Louis, but favorite win, most memorable win. in St. Louis. Yeah. I think it, you know, what was really fun was when we went to Washington after the shutout against Oakland and had back-to-back shutouts. Yeah.

And then you remember you came to me on the coin toss and said, because I mean, I was so into the freaking game. And, well, yeah, that's a great idea. Let's send everybody we got an RG3 trade out for the coin toss. I remember every time I'm in that locker room, I remember where I was sitting and you were walking by and I came up. It was like, hey, fish, man, you know, you deserve some credit for this trade, man. We need to send these guys out. I said, let's send all the guys out from their trade.

You said, we better fucking play well. Yeah, and we showed him out. Yeah. And was that Greg's, was that the same game there that Greg just couldn't, he couldn't get the ball through the yellow post? No, yeah. And I made it put the ball against the locker after the game and got him out. of his slump. Yeah.

It was the same game. So I would have to say that was one of the, one of my favorites. But, you know, we won on the road, too. That's the thing. People don't realize. I mean, we went into Arizona. Todd's rookie year. Remember when Todd's taught down?

Todd looked. I mean, you're just like, go to Seattle and win. And, you know, the hardest one I thought was the tie at San Francisco. That was the game I got drunk and fell down the stairs on the bus in front of you. I don't know if you remember this, but I had been drinking on the bus ride to the plane and I tripped. I didn't trip because I was drunk.

I tripped because I tripped. But I remember sitting up and me like, I was like, oh, fuck, that's fish. I tripped right in front of fish and you go, hey, buddy, you played a great game. Yeah, let me help you out. But that was the weirdest game. I was going to say, to me,

to me, it was San Francisco at home. We wore the throwbacks. That was the most physical football game I've ever played in. That same year, because we went into overtime again, and this time we won, and we almost tied them twice in the same year. Yeah, that was the year they went to the Super Bowl. And we, I'm telling you, that game was like a wreck on the interstate over and over again.

They had Brandon Jacobs. They had, you know, was it Leonard Williams as an extra tight end? So I was lining up in a four-eye on Anthony Davis and then head up on Leonard Williams, and they had IUP potty, Frank Gore. people about those games it was a bloodbath uh so we had we had some good times man it we may not have gotten over the hump in in st louis but i'll tell you what and on a serious note um before we close out the players loved you fish and we loved each other i still talked to those guys on regular base and the most special thing the super bowls they were great in my career but was that d-line room

we had in st louis so i appreciate you putting that together and uh every week helping us go play with an edge so thanks fish yeah like i said it was fun it was really fun and that's how this game should be and people lose track of it. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Hey, well, I'll see you soon. Maybe we'll get up the mountain. Stay in touch. Okay, buddy. Thanks.