Green Light with Chris Long - Jalen Brunson's Legacy After Delivering a Knicks Championship with Tim Legler

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

The New York Knicks are NBA Champions and ESPN's Tim Legler joins Chris to break down Jalen Brunson's winning pedigree, San Antonio's future potential and the Washington Commanders 2026 season outlook. Chris opens the show with some Knicks love, talking about his STL Memorial Award Winner from the NBA Finals, AJ Brown's final interation with the Philadelphia Eagles and remembers Aldon Smith following his passing over the weekend. Legler says Brunson will now be talked about as one of the greatest Knicks of all time after delivering a championship to the city. He also describes the San Antonio Spurs' Dylan Harper as a future 1st Team All NBA caliber player and says the Spurs have many more opportunities to come. Legs ends the convo with an analysis of his Washington Commanders and how Jayden Daniels can impact the 2026 NFL season. (00:00:00) - Intro (00:00:42) - Knicks Are NBA Champions (00:09:49) - NBA Finals STL Memorial Award (00:15:32) - AJ Brown's Final Moments In Philadelphia (00:22:49) - Remembering Aldon Smith (00:34:38) - Tim Legler on the NBA Finals Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline presented by Zone Nicotine and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open: ‪[phone]‬ With the return of the Layup Line, make sure to check out the playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=YP1-ffQ3T_yUDRnJRhDtOw Check out Green Light's ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where you can catch all the latest GL action: Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

He's the most improbable, unguarable player I've ever seen because it's balance, footwork, strength, IQ, and then this other rare quality of not being affected by the moment. In fact, being built for the moment. There were people sneaking this guy running up behind this guy. It was terror. The guy took three steps and it was like the Red Sea parted. And I was saying it on the broadcast repeatedly. I don't understand.

in why they're not initiating these sets with Dylan Harper. I don't care how old he is. I don't care if Dylan Harper was 12 years old. If that's what he looks like and he looks that comfortable, let him go, man. Welcome to the show. Today I've got Tim Legler on the heels of the Knicks winning the NBA finals. That doesn't even feel real, saying it. Some people waited a long time for this.

Some people wait a long time for this. I'm one of them. I grew up a Knicks fan, talked about that on the show. before honestly had a hard time believing that they were going to be able to win the finals against either of those teams coming out of the West. When I talked to Ryan Rosillo two weeks ago, I wasn't real bullish on it. But then that series going seven and the attrition and just kind of the mental aspect of it, I think, favored the Knicks so much.

But I thought that series was going to go six or seven games and the Knicks would win it. they only needed five. Talked to legs about it today. That series could have gone either way. I mean, it could have gone 3-1 in either direction, but when crunch time happened, the Knicks used, I guess they used their experience

because the spurs just kind of folded. They folded like a lawn chair. And I got a lot of respect for that team. I'm going to enjoy watching that team win a lot over the next decade, but it had to happen. It had to be done. It had been a very long time. before I was born the last time the Nicks won a championship.

They had two of them in the 70s. But, you know, like the 90s were tough. The 90s were tough. It was a wonderful time to grow up a Knicks fan. It was a wonderful time to, and if you're wondering, like, how did I become a Nix fan? When I moved to Virginia, when I was a little kid, I had become a UVA fan.

And they were orange and blue. And the NICs were orange and blue. and I guess the Washington Bullets didn't really wet my whistle. There was no NBA fandom to be had in rural Virginia. So for me, it was like turn on TV. Which team do you like watching the most? And the little 9-year-old, 8-year-old kid in me really enjoyed the Knicks. And then as the 90s went on, it was fun not being a front-runner.

I was kind of hoping they had won a title at some point, but like it was fun watching the Knicks. because they always came close. So it was like, if this ever happens, like I'm not like a Bulls fan or something like that. You know, I'm not some front runner, you know. Had to watch them lose to the pacers, to the heat, to the Bulls, the Rockets in the finals in 94, whatever it was.

I, you know, they got swept by the Spurs. And when they got swept by the Spurs, it was kind of over. Like, you know, the next 25 years, there were moments. You know, there was like Carmelo Anthony's run. There was Lynn Sanity. There was, you know, there were ups and downs. But you kind of knew the Spreewell era was kind of the end of the good times. And then, you know, slowly but surely they became relevant again.

And, you know, the whole James Dolan thing, people were like, they're never going to win a title with this guy's the owner. And he got his moment in the sun the other night, took the microphone and went Howard Dean. that was fucking that was otherworldly i don't know if he preloaded that that statement but it was like he'd never seen a microphone before i didn't know if he knew what to say he sounded like howard dean and hopefully it won't take that long again it was super fucking awkward but here we are they got the win uh i felt like a 41 year old kid the other night it was crazy my my son who's 10 years old like he'll know if i'm

and it doesn't sound great, but he knows it's not a good thing to do, but he knows if I'm betting a game, and he's always on the other side. He's not gambling. Obviously, he's 10 years old, but he's rooting for the other team. And so, you know, kind of on principle, he was the biggest Spurs fan in the world because dad's all over the Knicks.

And man, staying up with him until midnight, game four at the beach last week, I'll never forget it. is the highlights of my life when it comes to sports fandom. When you become a professional athlete, you kind of stop being able to, like, the NFL. Okay, I like the Eagles, I do.

I like Eagles fans. I like, you know, I like having played in Philly. I like being a part of that thing. But I don't, I'm, people ask me, who's my NFL team? It's usually whoever I bet on or whoever I, whoever I talk about in a positive light on this show because I want to be right. Like I care about this job. It's hard to be an NFL fan once you've played in the NFL.

It's hard to be like a fan of a team, right? Like a true fan. You know, when I've watched it, I've been watching the Eagles since I retired and increasingly less. Or there's been a big decrease, rather, of players that I played with. So as the years go on, I'm less attached to the outcome of every Eagles game. You know, I'm more just hoping the fans are in a good place. I'm hoping they're excited. I want them to be happy.

There's only, I think, one guy that I played with that's still in the Eagles. So I think it's Lane Johnson. So I'm invested in that team's success as I watch teammates. But as time goes on, I'm not as, you know, I don't get to be a true fan. and when you play in professional sports, like it does, it takes a way that I don't know if it's because you've seen behind the curtain or like, or what, but like you lose a little bit of that

that childlike sports fan magic, right? And baseball, I grew up being a Yankees fan and then snapped out of it and was like, you can't be a front runner your whole life. Plus, I kind of lost interest in the professional game played it through high school, but like did not watch a lot. I think for me, in true front runner fashion, it ended with Luis Gonzalez singling up the middle

and losing the Diamondbacks. You know, for me, I was like, okay, I've kind of lost interest. So baseball, I was never like a fanatic into my adult years. Football I played in the NFL. I lose the ability to be, you know, a kid watching a game. Hockey, that blues run was fantastic. but that's fandom that I picked up when I played for the St. Louis Rams.

So I was an adult. Now, while it was incredible, I'll never forget where I was when the Blues won the cup and they got to beat the Bruins, which made it even more sweet. And that same year, UVA basketball won the national championship,

I was a real fan that year. It felt like the year of the fan, Chris Long. But I don't get to be a fan a lot. I don't get to be a true fan. And the Knicks, for me, are the only team that I've enjoyed from, you know, my eighth year on the planet to my 41st year on the planet. You know, 33 years I've enjoyed the New York Knicks and, you know, some years less than others. But to get a chance to see that was awesome. I got a little misty.

Got a little misty. I'm not going to lie. So in college, I used to, if I got a sack, I throw up the L. People are like, oh, it's Chris Long. Well, I got it from Grandma Ma. Because, you know, Larry Johnson was on those late 90s, next teams. I love that dude. I loved all of them.

I was watching Charles Oakley fight stories yesterday. I love Charles Oakley. Charles Oakley should be back in the garden. Okay, we've got, you know, I've got Chris Childs. I've got, you know, I've got John Starks. John Starks has been on this show. Patrick Ewing has not been on the show. I met Patrick Ewing at an NBA camp in Charlottesville.

I lost my top, dude. Anthony Mason, like the list goes on, you know, Alan Houston, even in the Spreewell days. Like, I just, and it was cool to see all those guys or a lot of those guys in the building, you know, even through the years like Amman Shumper wearing his own jersey, walking into Madison Square Garden, Carmelo Anthony

you know embracing the Knicks like dudes back watching the game that was incredible it was like it was like my childhood but now I'm an adult and this team kind of fit that persona they were a tough team they were tougher than the Spurs man Spurs got a lot of talent

they're going to be here a long time but the Knicks were tougher and the Knicks closed games out I mean fucking I've never seen anything like that I love that team I'm always going to love this next team forever they're stamped they pulled the sword from the stone i want to give out an stl memorial award though um i know we do this in football season s tl memorial award would be the award that we give to somebody that probably didn't get enough credit and this whole thing and yeah on the court i could

probably give that that i could give that to a number of nicks role players i thought alvarado was awesome. I thought even though Josh Hart missed the layup and didn't shoot the ball well at times, he was fucking, he was nails in some big situations. He does all the dirty work. I'm going to talk to legs about that.

Mitchell Robinson guys like that. But I want to give the STL Memorial to the Spurs fan in the Dennis Robben jersey. Absolute tank. Now if you followed the Knicks through the playoffs and especially the finals,

and let me just say this I hate it I hate seeing fans beating up fans because it's not a it shouldn't be a hot take but we do kind of live in an era where you know you sit there in your inbox and you're typing out you shouldn't beat up opposing fans

just for wearing another jersey like and I'm like and I'm like fuck it people are just going to argue with me or question my fandom we live in a time and a place where that's controversial, you have to, you have to pucker up before you deliver the take

that you shouldn't commit violence against people that wear a different jersey to your arena, your stadium. That's so fucking Bush League, dude. And I know some people are like, you know, they're going to be listening and saying, well, you're not a real Knicks fan, you're not from me, I don't give a fuck. The gatekeeping's also a turnoff.

Like the gatekeeping of celebrity fans, like what do you want them to do? They're going to sit close to the court and they're going to be there. whether there's Ben Stiller or Taylor or Taylor Swift or like, not everybody's going to be Spike Lee same place, same time

every game the last two decades, dude. It's just the gatekeeping's out of control. You know, people questioning you a Knicks fan or you a Knicks guy. I didn't see you at any of it. Like that's just so fucking lame, dude. But the lamest thing is the beating up fans

in other jerseys. I know that's a minority of fans. It's not the majority of fans who are running around like beating up opposing fan bases. I mean, even Knicks fans, like, that's a, that's just a couple people, right? But it's more than a couple, isn't it? I mean, you're watching these videos and, like,

they're not even fair ones. Dudes are just getting beat up for, like, wearing a Genoblee jersey, and that's fucking Bush League. It made me want to beat some people up, honestly. And you can take my Knicks fan car, whatever. I don't, the great thing about turning 40 is you just stop giving a fuck what people think. And I really could care less what people think about, like, am I a true Knicks fan or not? Like, I was so happy to see that Dennis Robben character

dogwalk, a number of these cowards that are trying to jump Spurs fans in the concourse. And I don't know how this fight started, but I'm going to assume that people were instigating it with Dennis Robman, the guy in the Dennis Robman jersey. But it was a magnificent showing by this tank of an individual. The guy looks like he played D1A football and maybe was a three technique or a guard. The guy's a brick house. So if you're wondering what it's like to run into a football player in hand-to-hand combat, some of these punches weren't really landing with the authority that people thought they would. There were people sneaking this guy running up behind this guy. He looked, you know it reminded me

coincidentally of if you watch the original Ghostbusters Staypuff marshmallow man he was just it was terror the guy took three steps and the fucking it was like the Red Sea parted after a couple seconds people realized

that this guy had basically had like fleshy riot gear on you couldn't you couldn't take him out and there's people running up to sneak him and but the crowd is just he takes and he wasn't running He was just walking. He was walking people down.

And it was like the running of the Bulls. People were just moving out of the way. Somebody would come in, take an ill-advised shot at this guy. And he'd just turn around calmly with his phone in his hand. And he would walk the next guy down. And I was wishing it would have gone on all night because you weren't, this guy was going to, this guy was going to, he was collecting some souvenirs. I fucking love this Dennis Robman jersey Spurs fan. Love that guy.

Hats off to that guy. Love to get him on the show. I don't know who you are, where you are. But that guy was the star of the show for me. And the Knicks still won the series, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But like, some of those fans should have gotten beat up. And I'm not talking about the Spurs fans.

I'm talking about some of the fans that were jumping people and that sort of thing. It's just beating people up in the concourse because you're wearing a different jersey. Like, fuck off, dude. Like, that's loser behavior. Yeah, I'm not from New York. I have no idea what that's about. But if that's what it's about, I have no interest. You know, I've already seen the Empire State Building.

I'm good. But it has just loser behavior, dude. Just beating up fans because they got some, you know, a different jersey on. I've never liked that. I've never liked that. I love that Dennis Robin jersey wearing guy, though. The gatekeeping was lame.

The gatekeeping was lame. All right, you know what else is lame? And I'm not calling the person lame because I think, you know, I've made my stance pretty clear on this guy. And we're going to transition now into the NFL real quick before we get Legler on. I think because I like A.J. Brown. And I've said this the entire, his entire time in Philly. I've loved A.J. Brown, the player.

And I also understood a lot of his frustrations with the passing offense. And I also think it's lame to see people kind of armchair quarterback the thing and litigate it through the lens of like it's all an interpersonal thing, which, you know, like I have no interest in gossip. And, you know, I really am not interested in hashing it out, whatever happened between Jalen and A.J. Brown off the field. But I know what happened on the field. It was easy to see. You know, I think it's a combination of, and I've talked about this already. J. Brown, losing a step, and we'll see how that manifests in New England. I truly believe he physically had lost a step a little bit. And I also think he was supremely frustrated with the passing game. And the quarterback, Jalen Hertz, who's been a fabulous player for the Eagles, up and down at times,

but I mean, Super Bowl champion, Super Bowl MVP, and he's the quarterback of the team, has left a little to be desired at times throwing the football. And, you know, like, as a receiver, that could be frustrating depending on the city. Cause the passing offense has been up and down. Whether you're a, whether you're a hurt stand or an AJ Brown stand or you just love the Eagles, you can admit that the passing offense has been up and down. And the quarterback and the receiver share responsibility in that. But I think watching him kind of spiral,

I don't know if it's equal parts frustration. I think it's probably, mostly the field frustration. You can talk about whatever was going on off the field. I have no interest in that. Do I think it's lame for people to go back and be like, oh, now we know because there was some rumor online about what happened.

It's all that. And AJ Brown's just a total diva. And that's what it all came down to. I think a lot of it came down to execution as well. So I don't want to do that whole thing, but I will say this. What he wrote on his way out in Philly only fuels speculation

that he is a diva, you know, the best to ever play here thing. Either you're a giant troll or you have a totally inflated idea of who you are as a player. And I don't like talking like this about somebody who I think is a fantastic player, far better than I ever was, but AJ Brown's a fucking stud. But when you say things like best to ever play here, it forces people to talk about you in a negative light. because although there's nothing inherently negative about saying you are not the best football player to ever play in Philly.

It's almost an asinine claim because T.O. was the best receiver to ever play in Philly. T.O. I'm sorry, but A.J. Brown is a fucking spectacular player, but he is not T.O. T.O. is one of the best two, three receivers to ever play the game, in my opinion. you know in any order Calvin Johnson Jerry Rice T.O. And I might be forgetting a couple guys, but like, you know, Harold Carmichael did it a long time in Philly. You know, there are guys at other positions. It depends on what AJ Brown meant. But like, again, we don't have to get into this because maybe it's working.

Maybe he's just trolling everybody. Maybe he's trolling me. But like Brian Dawkins, Jason Kelsey. Reggie White. Let's start there. All probably better eagles. You've got to consider longevity and all that stuff. While AJ Brown was here, he was fantastic.

While he was in Philly, he was fantastic. But just to write something like that on the way out, now I'm starting to, I'm starting to, like, listen, like, you can't be like, hey, you're always looking at me and then write something like that on the way out and play the victim about it. like, you know, you kind of bring some of it on yourself, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And that's not news to a lot of people because a lot of people have had him pegged as being a

diva or bringing a lot of it on himself. But like it is a very ironic way to leave your mark on the building to make a claim like that and to get people all up in arms. And I have seen some people kind of counter it as if it needs a counter, myself included. But like, that's kind of the cycle of the AJ Brown saga is, you know, you do something small or, you know, something that might not have anything to do with football that draws attention to you, the player. And then when people rail on your or push back on a claim like, I'm the best to ever do it in Philly, you probably say, see, nobody likes me. Everybody's always out to get me. Well, no, they're not. You just made a ridiculous claim. And I'm not even tearing you down because I think you're a fantastic football.

player but like no sir not even i would say not even close sounds disrespectful but you ain't t oh um and he might have just been trolling so if you are brother great job i you got you got us all um the funniest thing that i saw about a j brown uh was and this is like let me just google a j brown push-ups because I want to get the whole quote. They were like New England B writers. They were like, man, really good sign. Like, AJ Brown's making headlines because he's using push-ups

as a tool for accountability when he drops past. Like, he's out there doing push-ups. Like, this is going to be a great marriage. You're in the honeymoon phase. That's what the last guy said. Right? So I think it's just

receivers are funny, man. receivers are always going to be funny to me. They are always going to be funny to me. Not to psychoanalyze entire position groups, but I'll do it. They are a funny group of guys. I still think AJ Brown's going to play some good football in New England, even if he's taking a step back. And I'm glad to say this is probably the last.

I'm going to talk about him as it pertains to Philly. But that headline in the deadest part of the football sports calendar, you got to expect people to rebut that. I mean, come on. You know, played in Philly four or five years. I hate saying here as if like that's my main team. I only played there two years and I didn't do half of what he did. But that doesn't disqualify me as an analyst or a sports fan of saying like, dude, no way.

You're not the best eagle ever. Come on, bro. Come on. Before getting a Legler, I just wanted to talk about Alden Smith, man. Alden Smith died the other day. if you watch football when I played, you know who Alton Smith was. And if you didn't watch football when I played, you should go back and watch his highlights. He was one of the best football players I ever watched play at the NFL level.

You know, there was a lot made about he had Justin Smith and Justin Smith. I mean, I got some jerseys on the wall in my shop. And Justin Smith is my favorite jersey. that I traded in the NFL. And Justice Smith was a fantastic football player. A lot of people made him out to be the reason. Like, you know, they ran some grab games and that sort of thing. You know, where if you watch them play,

Justice Smith might get a hold of the tackle or the guard and Smith had loop or hit the edge. And, you know, they also said, hey, we played on a great defense. That's a lot of the reason. But I never saw anybody. very few players dominate the way he did off the edge and he was a technician and you know some guys are like gumby he had like a gumby bend to him like not a Chandler Jones kind of Chandler Jones was kind of he had his own way of moving around and that sort of thing but Alden Smith was a very

unique flexible explosive long player and his long arm and the complex off of that thing he used to just drop people. You know, when I talk about feel, I talk about, you know, feeling the weight of the blocker and knowing when to disengage and how to bring him. We had a defensive line coach named Mike Waffle. And he used to talk about rushing, you know, there's a triangle and it's upside down. And the apex of the triangle, let me double confirm this before I make a big geometry gaffe here. The apex of a triangle is the tip of the triangle. Yeah, it's right here on Google. Confirmed. The triangle is upside down. It's between the rusher and the blocker. And he used to talk about bringing people to the apex when you are going to shed somebody in pass rush or bull pull, like bull jerk, bull pull, long arm to pull by.

It's all predicated on an understanding of timing, weight distribution. and not every guy has that feel. Alden Smith had an 11 out of 10 feel for that. And he also had an 11 out of 10 feel for how to get somebody in a panic to where they are going to shift their weight distribution towards you. And you can then pull them down towards the apex of that triangle. It's an upside down triangle between the rusher and the offensive tackle. So he had the best of both worlds.

He had the length to create panic. He had the explosiveness to jar you and make you feel like, damn, I need, this is too much distance. I need to come back and I need to set my anchor. And then he had the rare ability, the feel to where he could get somebody on the ground. And so many guys miss sacks because they got garbage hanging on them, which is a lot of the reason we talk about shedding blockers. or Aaron Donald would talk about getting to the back of a blocker, which is like an insurance policy so that I clear the garbage. You don't just win, you have to win again, right?

Alden Smith, he did all that. He did all that. And he was lethal on the edge. I just very few rushers I ever saw took the league by storm like that. I think he had 33 sacks and 32 games, his first 32 games or whatever it was. he went on to miss years because of substance abuse because of not being able to quite get it together and ended up with 50-something sacks and you know kind of kind of unrealized potential on the field when he realized it for that short span of time I was in awe and I also got a chance to talk to him a few times

and, you know, I told him when he was a young player how big of a fan I was of his game. And, you know, when the troubles begin to start off the field, you know, I gave him some words of encouragement in passing when I saw him. It's just somebody I wanted to win. And he was a, he was a sweet person. He was a good person.

You know, you could tell that through the limited interactions that we had playing across, playing on opposite sidelines in a rivalry and talking to him after games and seeing him around the league. I mean, he was a guy that you really hope would get the hang of it, not only on the football field, but obviously in life. And I don't think he ever quite got the hang of it. And it's so sad.

Yeah, I can't speculate as to what happened. Obviously, more information will come out on that. But, like, 36 years old, Alden Smith should be wrapping up a haul of of Fame career. Like, we should probably, in a parallel universe, the headline is Alden Smith retires with 170 sacks, 160 sacks or whatever it is, man, like, he was that good. He was that, he was that good. And, you know, it's, it's easy to get caught up in the football side of it, but it's just sad knowing that he probably struggled on some.

some level his whole life. And now I don't know what causes death, but I heard him talking a week ago on a podcast of some sort. He's sitting in a barber's chair and he's talking about, you know, he's had a hard time lately and, you know, he doesn't want to talk about it, but, you know, it's just been a trying time. And by all indications, he has struggled throughout his life. And, and, and that's very sad. It's sad to me to think about somebody obviously passing away at 36. And, but somebody never found peace you know substance abuse mental health challenges those are tough things and um i hate that that guy never never found peace it didn't seem like and uh it sucks man being 41 is crazy man because you know i was on the river with my buddy who played in the league 10

years the other day. I got off the river and found out about this. I got a text about it. I told my boy and he was like, man, I hope it's not. You never want to speculate, but I hope it's not like a self-inflicted type of thing or, you know, because and my buddy said, hey, I've lost 10, 11 former teammates or guys I knew in the NFL because of things like suicide or substance abuse and um i think i think anybody who's 40 or or you know kind of at this midlife impasse if you're lucky enough to see it you lose people you know and you see people that you played against or worked with or you know personal friends or people you went to school with and uh you know you see people dying and you know you know you'll be you know you know

bad things happen. It just feels like it's, it's an increasingly common thing, the older you get. And I guess I'm just saying at this age, you got to start counting your blessings, man. I said this, I said this a few weeks ago talking about Coach Mack, but like when somebody dies at 36, somebody who had so much talent, so much potential, it's just like, man, we're lucky. You're lucky every day to open your. eyes you're lucky every day you know some people get depressed about birthdays i'm not gonna when they get a certain age where you're like damn i'm getting older i'm getting old being getting old being old being old is a privilege man you know um getting older is a privilege getting to getting to see

getting to see 40 years old getting to see 50 years old and i'm um i'm still a young man but when you play a sport like i played you you you see more of this than i think most people see um And it's sad. It's really sad. And it breaks your heart because he was a, he was a, by all indications, a kind person doing his best, but just couldn't shake his demons, man. I don't know if that's what caused his death, but he just couldn't shake him. To hear him talking last week the way he was talking, you just wonder what he was battling. And then to see what he was doing the day he died, he's delivering pizzas for a charity. You know, somebody who's doing his very best. And, you know, you know, It's a reminder to give people some grace. Because you never know what they're going through. And yeah, he seemed to perpetually be going through a lot. And so rest in peace, Alden Smith, one of the best football players I ever saw legitimately.

And I think in a parallel universe, he's getting fitted for a gold jacket. So appreciate every day you have. You never know. And getting older is a privilege, man. And anybody my age, I think, knows that because you do see more and more of this. And so super sad. Turning the page to some basketball here.

We're going to talk finals with Tim Legler. He was on the call the entire series with Breene and Richard Jefferson. And I think it was his first finals he'd ever called. So way cool. I'm sure he's buzzing. Either that or super tired. We'll find out. but Legs is the man.

So I've been hoping we can get them on the show at some point. I'm a big, you know, I like talking basketball. We just, we, this is such a football-dominated show, but on a day like to like this, would you rather go through this or the, the economics of the Patrick Mahomes deal? I'm sorry. The next just won a championship.

So enjoy, Tim Legler and we'll be back later in the week. I got, um, there's a big, interview coming up on this show. I'll just, I'll tease that. I'm not going to say who. There's a pretty big interview coming up on this show. I'll let you kind of, maybe you can guess in the, in the comments. So, so here's Tim Legler. Make this tournament one to remember with BetMGM's two up

early payout. Just place a pregame match result bet on any world's game match. And if your team goes up by two goals at any point, your bet is paid out as a win. That's right. You keep the winnings, no matter what happens next. This offer is available every match, so be sure to get in on the action. And if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code Greenlight, and you'll get up to a $1,500 new player offer

on your first wager. BetMGM, make it legendary. If you've ever played sports, you know the competition can get pretty heated. Same goes for the all-new flavor of zone nicotine pouches. Introducing jalapeno lime. It's a burst of citrus,

meets a subtle, fiery kick. Each pouch is a premium nicotine experience with intensity and flavor that lasts. Now available in six and nine milligrams. Want to learn more about zone nicotine pouches? Visit zonpouches.com and remember to join the loyalty zone for exclusive rewards and offers. We got basketball. Of course, we got basketball today, as I talked about in the open. And we got a great guest lined up for you.

Tim Legler, NBA analyst at ESPN, and a, dude that got a front row seat to that series. Tim, have you gotten any rest? What's it like wrapping that series up? Very little because, you know, as a, as a crew, you also have like a celebration when the season's over, you know, no matter who wins. Like, it's just what you do because it's such a grind at the end.

There's so much travel involved. Everybody knows that, hey, man, you know, you put your heart and soul into it, but now you're going to maybe get to go see your families for a little bit. Reintroduce yourself to your dog. I had to show my dog the phone bill to see my name is on the address. I wasn't a stranger coming in the house. It's such a rush. There's so much adrenaline that goes into it,

the live element of it and just particularly that series with five consecutive nail biters where you just have to be so sharp and on your toes the entire game at no point of you're relaxing when it's over. Kind of celebrate. So yeah, we were up into the wee hours. And then it's like everybody's catching six o'clock ubers, you know, and car services to the airport and flew home. And then, of course, everybody at home is happy to see you.

So, yeah, to answer your question, very little. But I'll get back on track here over the next few days and catch up with my sleep. What an incredible experience that must have been. And I just, you got, be honest, man. Did you think it was going back to the garden? Going into the game, I kind of felt that it would because these games had, had, literally a handful of possessions over the course of the first four games, literally five possessions.

I could have just gone back and changed the outcome of sprinkled amongst those four games and either had a sweep, probably in either direction. Yeah. Three one in either direction. I could have made it two, two, if I just was able to move. So that's how tight we're talking. The margins were so small that you kind of felt like now at home the spurs would get like maybe the breaks they needed at the end

or they would get that big shot to go that they hadn't, that big stop, that they weren't able to accomplish. So yeah, it did kind of feel like the way that this thing had played out that the Spurs could get it to a sixth game and forced the Nix to go back to the guard. But the Knicks, man, oh man, it's to watch a team,

and particularly watch D'Anlon Brunson just be that certain of himself in that level of pressure. It was pretty incredible. He's a rare, rare player historically that separates himself from everybody else on the floor with how he can process things with the game hanging in the balance just at a different level. His heart rate doesn't even go up. He's almost more comfortable in those situations than he is the rest of the game. It's a rare quality and it really, to me, is what separates him from other guys in this league and separated himself for everybody else in this series.

Yeah, I guess we could start with Brunson. I didn't know where to start, but there's so much crazy. shit that happened in this series. And I, with Brunson being, and I'm a Knicks fan, like, when we signed Brunson, I'll admit, I didn't think this was going to happen. I did not think that was the signing. And, you know, you're kind of coming out of that era in the NBA where it's like, it's all about star power and it's about super teams.

And now we're, you know, we look up and we're six, eight years out of that era a little bit. But Brunson wasn't supposed to be the Blue Chip signing. I mean, he didn't get the rave reviews. And if you watch him in Dallas, totally different player, how do you put into context the move that the Knicks made four or five years ago to bring this guy in? Because I'm watching that series. And I don't know if there's a lot of guys that can score the basketball in crunch time at will

that I've ever watched in my adult life watching the NBA. He's the most improbable, unguarable player I've ever seen. because you're talking about a guy that basically all of this gets done because of a number of qualities, right? It's balance, footwork, strength, IQ, and then this other rare quality of not being affected by the moment. In fact, being built for the moment. And that's just not a lot of guys historically have had that. when he came to the Knicks, that summer, it wasn't a super strong free agent class. Jalen Brunson was one of the headline names.

And look, I probably missed his ceiling as much as any player I've covered in the NBA. I knew he was going to be a good NBA player. I thought, at the time, I thought, coming into the league, I thought he's either going to be a starter or sort of a mid-level type team or he's going to be, he could potentially be like a backup guard, a combo guard on a great team, a contending team. And he was that in Dallas. He was sort of that player. That playoff run that he had when Luca was hurt and playing alongside Luca

kind of changed my opinion of his upside. I still didn't see this. I don't know that anybody saw this. I'm not even sure that even he did or his father, Rick, did, who had coached him his whole life. I'm not sure that anybody really saw this. And I think to me, it's the one thing that you can't quantify and look at a player. You can see their athletic ability.

their size, some of the metrics that I just talked about. You can see those things as handle, like all that's the shooting ability. You can see all that. The one thing you cannot gauge and cannot measure is a guy's ability to navigate these moments when your team is basically looking at you to decide matters. And some guys can navigate that. They're built for that. The lights get turned up.

The lights get turned up. That's when they're at their best. And that's the one thing that we didn't fully know about Jalen Brunson. Even though he won a national championship, he did that at Illinois 1-2. Still, you didn't know. Could he really do that as a team's best player? Like navigate an entire postseason run and operate in that way every time his team needed it. That's the thing you don't know.

And now we obviously have the answer to that. And that is what has made Jalen Brunson, this incredibly special player. It makes him almost impossible to contain in those moments because he's got an answer and he got a counter for whatever he sees. Game four, just an absolute riot to watch, dude. It was amazing. But the last 15 seconds of the game, with Brunson, am I reading into it too much as a football guy? I'm watching and I'm thinking he takes the inbound pass and he's got Wembe out on him and he's got two defenders on him. They're ready to like blitz him or whatever y'all would call it. And he takes the three. Is there an analytical approach to taking that three? Because it's not a high percentage, shot necessarily. Does he know it's going to be a long rebound,

a tip-in opportunity? Is that a smart basketball play? I think what he's thinking and processing in the moment is it was like a soft blitz. It wasn't a full-on blitz. It wasn't like DeAren Fox ran over there, you know, full tilt to force him to give the ball. If that had been the case, he would have passed the ball, probably back to actually to OG and Anobie, who would have just stepped in bounds, caught the ball at 28 feet. Then who knows?

Does he have time to try to attack the rims? he shoot a pull-up or a three. The fact that it was like a soft blitz and he never forced the ball in his hands, I think Jalen Brunson basically made up his mind before the ball was inbounded. He wanted to decide matters. And that's why a lot of times, in fact, I said on the broadcast, before the ball's inbound that I said, I would expect Jalen Brunson to go one four flat here, meaning everybody get down below the foul line so that he doesn't bring a screen up because a screen coming up

means there's a good chance he's going to be blitz and be forced to get. the ball up and spurs have big guards very active hands their traps look a little different than a lot of teams there's a chance you get a ball tipped on a pass out of the blitz so i that's why i expected him to go into a one-on-one situation i don't think he expected to see victor web and yam in front of him that's first thing so if he's eight 10 feet back but he's seven five so he can put a hand up and still contest so i don't know that he necessarily expected that and now out of the corner of his peripheral, here comes Deerrin Fox headed toward him. And I don't think, like, was he thinking I can shoot this, miss it and OG's got a great run at this? No, I don't think he's processing

that in the moment. I think he's processing, I want to be the one to decide matters. It's my responsibility to do that if I can get a clean look. So even though that was a really deep shot over Wembe, in Brunson's mind, that's a very makeable shot. And as it turns out, he got it up there softly enough that you had a miss that was capable of being offense rebattling. If that ball is really short or it's a little bit flatter, the ball is going to hit the rim and it's going to kick off in a totally different way. And the game's, that's it.

Yeah. But because he got enough arc on it, height, touch, he was able to hit the front of the rim bounce up almost perfectly for OG to run in there and time it to tip it in. So I'm just, you know, he can speak for himself. but for me, that's kind of what I was seeing he was processing in the moment. I mean, we could go to Aaron Fox here, but I want to keep it positive for a second, talk about one of my favorite Knicks, Josh Hart,

who does so much dirty work. He had an opportunity to kind of blow the roof off the building with about 120 left. He misses the layup. He made some huge plays defensively. Can you talk about what Josh Hart means to that Nick's team? Yeah, he represents all the want-to that you have to have on a team. And that's what the coaches love.

That's what endears them to the fans. The amount of energy that Josh Hart spends in the game, I don't think there's anybody on the floor that matches it. Yeah. And so you think about this is what this has been now for several years, one of the best rebounding guy 6-5 in the league. And even historically, when you look at his rebounding numbers per minute for a guy 6-5, it's rather incredible.

You go back to even to game 1 and 15 rebounds in a night when he had no offense going. In fact, both games in San Francisco. Antonio to start the series. He had nothing offensively to contribute. He was still a dominant rebounder, dominant defender. He's still actually, when they go with their starting unit, still the most capable advance the ball up the floor ball handler besides Brunson. That's one of the things that I think they don't really have. They've got straight line drive guys in half court. They don't have guys that can advance the ball against pressure. And that's what San Antonio was doing. I think it really affected the Knicks for large portions of these games. In fact,

Brunson is the only ball handler they had. Because it's a totally different thing to bring it up with a guy picking you up 75, 80 feet, turning you a couple of times. Josh Hart represents the only other guy really capable of doing that, that starting lineup. So even there, he's helping you. He can switch on the multiple guys.

He plays bigger guys. He gets low fronts. He gets into their lower body so they can't establish leverage in the low post. You know, how hard he attacks the offensive glass. And the way that guys have to sort of chip on him in the lane, when you see him coming with the head of steam, it opens up offensive rebound for Carl Anthony Towns, Mitchell Robinson when he's in the game.

There are so many things he does to help you win on a given night that you will never see show up inside any sort of data analytics. And that's why Mike Brown loves him. That's why the Knicks fans who are very educated fan base love him because it's obvious to the naked eye. This guy's just playing a little bit harder than everybody else, even though at the NBA finals lever, everybody's competing at a high level.

Josh Hart still stands out. You know that whole football, basketball debate? Could the basketball players play football? We've dipped our toe in it. Josh Hart is on my short list of guys. I think he could play safety in the NFL. He's just got that reckless abandoned, explosive athleticism. Love the dude.

And like I said, I thought he had some huge defensive stands late in that series and was able to put that mislayup behind him. Just a mentally tough team. Mitchell Robinson also made some huge plays, huge offensive rebound and just with Kat being in foul trouble so much, having to play a bigger role than he probably anticipated. Also a huge role player for them as well, huh? Mitchell Robinson, Jose Avarado. Oh, he was great.

Shamit in the beginning of the series, not so much later, but his defense was still a factor. That's what thing he's come a long way because now you can leave him on the floor even when he's not making shots because he competes so hard defensively. But here's one of the things that was interesting to me. You mentioned on all these guys going into the series, one of the things that we loved about the spurs all year was their depth. They were playing every night 10. There were nights they were playing 11. And going into it, you know, the Knicks,

you knew their bench rotation was going to be shorter. And in general, just more inconsistent, like, production. Like, you don't necessarily know what those minutes will look like for Mitchell Robinson. And if they start fouling him intentionally, does that mean he's even playing less. Shamit was a guy, started off the year. Great, had an injury. Deuce McBride sort of took all those minutes,

but then McBride starts struggling. So now Shamet's thrust in there. Going into the Cleveland series, Mike Brown said he didn't even know if Jamet was going to play in the series. And he ends up being a major difference maker. He's playing more than 30 minutes a game early in the series in the NBA finals.

Alvarado was a guy that came in. Everybody loved him. There were nights. He played 18, 20, 20 plus minutes, get to the postseason. that gets shrunk. Look at the role he played, particularly in that game four comeback, when Brunson was getting worn out with all of the pressure he was seeing in the amount of offense creation. And like I said, the only guy really able to do it against that level

pressure off the dribble, Mike Brown said before the game, we may go to Alvarado and Brunson together. They barely played together all year at the same time. It changed the game in the fourth quarter. Alvarado playing with him. So I looked at the end of it and go, wait a minute. Nick's bench, more impactful other than Dylan Harper, who is just going to be an absolute superstar in this league. They had one guy that Knicks had several guys show up every given night. It was a major tipping point in the series, the production and contributions and impact moments that they got from their bench. Mitchell Robinson included. Yeah, it was great.

Wasn't it in game five, like the Spurs outscored the Knicks bench like crazy? and a lot of that is obviously Dylan Harper. Harper. So when you look at Dylan Harper, just an aside here, I didn't realize how good he was until I watched this playoff. And the kind of resolve he plays with at his age, what's his ceiling? Because is he a superstar?

Or is he like an elite supporting cast guy? like he's a six man now, but is that a forever thing? I mean, he's not going to be mono genobly. Yeah, Chris, I think he's a future first team all NBA player, which if you're talking about guys in that level, you're talking about guys that can be the best player on a contending team. Yeah. That's that short list. That's where he's going.

His three points shooting and just in general, his deep shooting off the dribble, he's got to tighten that up. He's a he's a rhythm. confidence deep shooter. If he gets some stuff in the paint early, he becomes a better outside shooter, but it's still, but no question his one weakness offensively. And there's going to be nights and he had some in this series. He drops a one for eight from the three point line, you know, in the same night. So it's still his weakness. He's got to address it. And I think he will. He's got a little bit of a sideways rotation because his wrist kind of turns just slightly on

release. He's got to work on a little bit mechanically, more confidence from out there, more rhythm from out there. That'll come. Here's the two things that are without questioner there now. If he has one guy in front of him, he's at the rim. And you rarely see that. He's one of the strongest one and done guards this league's ever seen come into the NBA. He plays through contact with his shoulders, his forearms, his wrists, the way he can play through rakedowns, and he just plows right through it and still finishes. He's got creativity on his finishes too. He's got some English and some touch he can put out with either hand. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And then the other thing is he's an absolute dog defensively.

He competes more than most guys his age coming into the week. They have an excuse not to compete. They've never been forced to. They're part of the one and done and AAU culture and no one's ever really challenged them to guard. So that's like guys' excuse the first two years in the league, why they don't guard. This guy from the first time I saw him, even in Vegas Summer League, I couldn't believe how hard he was playing defensively. Like obviously this matters to him. He wants to be a difference maker.

Actually, that was ahead of his offense at first, the beginning of the year. His offense caught up as the year went on. And then there's this last component. Like Brunson, he was the one guy for the Spurs that was super comfortable under pressure. That moment was not too big for Dylan Harper even at 20 years old. So he's got all of this stuff going for him. I think within five years, I think he's a guy that's going to be in a conversation for first team all NBA. You know, listen, you call it experience.

I don't know what it is, but, you know, if the spurs played like they played, they led for 173 minutes. You know, so I don't know if they're worn out because of the intensity they play with on defensive end of the floor, or they're too young to finish or whatever it is, but when they figure out how to finish, how scary is this team? Because, I mean, they have some young adults. what I mean by that is you just talked about Dylan Harper. Castle is a fucking stud.

He's got it between the ears. You know, all these guys, man. And Wembe, obviously, are they the most likely team in the NBA to rattle off more than one championship over the next seven, eight years? Yeah, I mean, you look at them for the next decade. And at least depending on, you know, Wembe. And they've got Castle, he's got Harper. even a guy like Carter Bryant, we didn't talk much about it.

His minutes got reduced in this series. Carter Bryant is going to be a major factor for them. Freak athlete, elite defender in a couple years, and then his offense will catch up. They're so young at their core, and of course, Wemby, and they're tough. They're tough. What they didn't have in this series and separated them from the Knicks,

they didn't have a clear-cut way of determining games. How are they going to play late? And you could see the uncertainty in their eyes. And the Knicks don't have that because they've got Jalen Brunson. So it's clear what they're going to do. And then guys can just play off of him. But he is going to be the guy that's the balls in his hands. He's going to either operate on an ISO or a ball screen and everything will flow out of it. But you're certain the balls in the hands are the right guy. And there's no question coming up the floor. Spurs are looking around. at each other. They're not exactly sure. And the reason for that is Victor Wemagnama is not

quite ready to command and demand the basketball in the areas of the floor where he's most affected. In fact, I don't think he's even come close to mastering the area of the floor that's ultimately going to make him unguardable. That's 15 to 20 feet. He doesn't really operate in that space. He's either screen all the way to the rim with a rim run or it's pop back. There's at 7-5, that kind of shooting touch, to be able to operate with a jab step or off the short roll and catch the ball at the top of the key, rise up and shoot over anybody in front of them, ultimately, like, and not the whole game, but that element, like in a Dirk Novitsky style, that area of the floor, with that shooting touch, high release, he doesn't really understand

how to process to get the ball there. And now it's impossible to figure where the double teams are coming from. He's got at the middle of the floor in a very makeable shot. He's going to get crowded up. One step he could be at the rim. He just didn't really seem like he was comfortable going to that area of the floor. So they didn't have a clear cut to find this is what we're going to to determine games. The Knicks did. It was the difference in the series. It's the only way you can explain the spurs leading to the extent they did in these games but not being able to close out four of them. Yeah, and Mitch Johnson, young guy did a great job. Obviously, him and Wembe have a real connection. It was fun to see that shot of him and Wembe. I think it was in the Western Conference

Finals, but it was him and Wembe having a deep conversation on the bench and they pan up to Pop and Tim Duncan in the booth. And it was like, this organization is just, you know, like, it's incredible. I, uh, but Mitch, how much of this does he wear? Because you blow all these leads, you know, the main lead that everybody thinks about is game four, which has seemed insurmountable. You blow that lead. Um, you talk about, you know, a lack of having a finisher or a finishing strategy. I think conversely, Mike Brown had a series that vindicates him because he's got a decorated career, but it like, it stamps him. I mean, on a level that. that I don't think people realize how great a coach he is.

I mean, the stuff he did with the lineups, we cat down. And, you know, you mentioned the lack of real depth. And, I mean, you're playing the Spurs. They allegedly have the best player on the planet. And that title's been passed back and forth. It feels like somebody will have it for a month in today's NBA. But like, so how do you put the coaching jobs that were done in context here? Let's start with Mitch because I would love it at some point you got even

15 minutes to talk to Mitch Johnson. Yeah. How much respect you would have for him. He's so smart. Everything he says carries weight. He doesn't give you any cliche answers. He never comes off uncertain. He thinks before he answers a question because he wants to like let you understand, let you

know, like what he's processing. The guy is an elite coach. Now, where can you question him in this series? I think there, I think the main one. would be he, I don't know if I want to call it stubbornness. It was his belief that he just would not let go of in Deerrant Fox to initiate offense in big moments, particularly game five. And I was saying it on the broadcast repeatedly.

I don't understand why they're not initiating these sets with Dylan Harper. I don't care how old he is. I don't care if Dylan Harper was 12 years old. If that's what he looks like and he looks that comfortable, let him go, man. And I think it was like we're going to keep going back to this vet, the vet, the 28-year-old, I think he is, who's, you know, average 25 points a game in this league three times in Sacramento. And a guy that in any night could get it going. And we talked to Mitch earlier in the series, and he stayed with the air.

And he said, I don't know, I'm staying with the Air Foxx because at any point, and he's right. He still has it in him. And anybody that wants to just absolutely trashed here in Fox down and say they got to get rid of them move. Well, first of all, they own $200 million. They owe a lot of money coming forward. So that's not going to happen. The other thing is he wasn't healthy fully. I'm not making excuses for his decision making.

Some of his inability to hit shots that I've seen him make his entire career in this series. Some of that was probably psychological, a little bit of pressure, especially after some of the issues he had earlier in the series. But something just was he didn't have the same lift. He was it hurt to jump every time he jumped. He's feeling something. So let's see what his bounce back is next year. But I thought, I just thought in the moment.

particularly game five, how you're not initiating these sets with Dylan Harper in a two-man game or Dylan Harper even with an ISO. No one on the Knicks kept in their front the entire series. Yeah. And go there. He was locked in on how he wanted to coach with that, with his sets.

And I thought that can be questioned. And just his rotations sometimes. He talked about getting Wembe more rest going into game five because he looked gassed in game four with that big comeback. Well, they're up. I think it was 11 or 12, four minutes to go in the third quarter the other night. It takes them out of the game.

I said on the air, well, if they can extend the lead or maintain this, then he can buy minutes for him through the end of the third quarter. And he'll be fresh to go for the entire quarter if you need to two and the fourth. The lead actually went to 15, and he still put it back in the game. Like a minute and a half later. And so like right there,

said what he was going to do. He said what he wanted to do. And in the moment, he felt something that was forcing, so just even something like that, rotational decisions. And the sets, I think that was more about personnel looking around and looking uncertain. And Wemby's still not there yet as a player to get the ball where he wants and do what he wants. So there are some limitations there from a head coach you stay up with what you can call, what you can do. You know your players better than anybody. You know what they look like. You know the uncertainty in their eyes. you know their limitations as players. So I'm not going to put all that on.

And you get Harper and Castle, they're not like they're going to go get a pull-up 28-footer if they want, like Brunson can. They're not complete offensive players yet. So he had some things working against him in that regard. He could be questioned. He can be criticized. It's all fair.

Some people take it too far. They go overboard with this stuff. Listen, I mean, and I'm not one of those because the first thing that comes to mind is the players have to make the plays. and you said it, this series could have swung the other way 3-1. I mean, Wemby had good looks. Oh, yeah. Game 2 or whatever it was, which feels like a month ago,

I'm sure for you, it feels like three months ago. But he had an open look. He had a good look at a three the other night. You had Deerrin Fox with the obvious gaff, you know, putting his head down and trying to make the layup, and Ogie walks him down. How about that thing right there? because Fox has taken a lot of flack.

You mentioned he's the 28-year-old guy. He is the veteran. The irony is he makes probably the most boneheaded play. And the young guys. And, you know, I think that's a lesson. It happens in football, too. You always talk about experience. Experience is overrated.

We talk out of both sides of our mouth on this thing. But, like, I remember when I was in Philly to go down a football sidebar, they had the guys that had won a championship talk to the team. and you know my message was i've seen guys that have been here 10 times make these mistakes and you see guys they're playing in their first super bowl their first you know divisional round game and they make the heads up play experience is not something that just buys you a clean sheet you you got to you got to have the composure and i think fox making that mistake really hurt them um obviously how do you get over that as a player and move forward and then how bad when

put that in the context of other mistakes that you've seen deep in playoff runs, is that mistake? Let's go. Let's go look. And I'll get to that one in a second. You're 100% right. Look at the end of these games. One, two, and four. One, they let the lead get away.

And then when Benyama, this is a 19-footer, clear look. And here's where he's going to learn for that. Why are you falling down on the ground backwards? You weren't touched. He'd go up, shoot the shot in rhythm. bug from Gildjus Alexander. Yeah, yeah. He just, it's like, it's weird because I watch, I watch some of this stuff now in the league,

and I'm like, I was a jump shooter, deep shooter, and I don't recall ever falling, like without, without getting touched, like on a jump shot. So, like, there, that's a learning process. He'll go back, watch that, be like, yeah, you know, if I just go up and land, I'm shooting that shot over Mitchell Robinson. Mitchell Robinson has got a lot of praise for that contest. I'm telling you right now, the guy 7-5 with a high release. He wasn't really bothered by the contest.

He lost his balance for no reason. So that's one. Game two. Tie game. Get the stop you need. Again, indecision. Are we taking the time? Did they talk through?

Are we getting the time out if we get this stop or not? I don't know that anybody was clear on it. So Wembe gets the rebound. It's the fine castle, takes his hands, and he pushes him toward the ground. Like that pump the brakes indicator. like, okay, let's slow down. There's like 12 seconds, whatever it was when he gets the ball, tie game. Now you can make the decision.

Are we going to play a call timeout? What are we going to do? Instead, Wemby starts dribbling. So Castle goes, oh, okay, I guess he's bringing the ball up the floor. So he starts to peel out. Wemby throws a pass off his back. And then fouls because he's panicked trying to make up for it. So there's two right there that you're talking about margins are razor thin

and they lose both of those games. And then obviously game forward at the Aaron Fox situation. So here's what I'll say about that. the play that can never be questioned. No one would ever question Deer and Fox getting the ball veering off to the sideline, making them chase you for a second and a half, two seconds at the most, take the foul, go to the line. You're an 80 plus percent foul shooter, knock the two down, you go up three,

and now you force them to take three point shot. No one is going to question that. Here's all I'll tell you. and listening to him after is he had so much faith in his being the quickest guy in the court that hey all right well i could beat him to the rim lay it in and then we're still up three and then you didn't have to make two free throws i got to lay up because he thought he had a window in an angle to do that bad decision clearly nandobe was too close closed a gap too much and that by the time he goes to release it

all that space is taken away if you could do it over again And he didn't say this because he was actually saying, man, no. He said to us the next day he could count on one hand the number of times he'd ever been tracked down with a step lead on anybody in the open floor. Yeah, he's quick. So that's kind of his instincts took over to try to get it to the rim. And I'm going to tell you this, Chris, there are other guys in this league who would have made the same play he did. Probably. Because they thought there are.

It's not like he's the only guy in the history of the game that would have done that. Now, like I said, you're never questioned if you go the other route, ever. Yes, you absolutely need to be questioned for this decision in this moment because you didn't get there. You didn't get there. Now, if he lays it in, people might still be like, hey, man, I can't believe he tried to score. But, okay, at least he got it to go and you back off the criticism. But he didn't get there. So it's one of those deals.

It's risk reward. You better make sure that you get that layup to go if you make that decision. And he didn't. So now he's open to all of that criticism. and you saw what happened. Rest is history. And OG is, he's fantastic in those situations. You know, where you're going to the rack and he's like a flash.

And he's got such great length and body control that he can make those plays without fouling. That's another guy that, like, I think gets overshadowed. You know, he's not a superstar, but how good is OG and Nobi? Especially after this series, what will people? talk about, how will people talk about him now? I think he's elevated himself. I mean, this is a guy, people inside, like, you watch him, you know this guy's stud.

But some of the things he was able to do offensively in the postseason, and then particularly games three and four in New York, got to a point where, like, going into game five, I mean, I think Brunson probably, I had a, and I had an MVP vote, finals MVP vote, I think Brunson still probably was going to win it if they both played like good games. Yeah. But like if Annoeby played out of his minded game five and Brunson struggled with his shooting at an inefficient night, there's a decent chance. O.G. and Nobi could have won the finals MVP.

Now obviously what Brunson did put all that to bed, you know, with that, a performance for the ages to where he's unanimous. And that's how great he was. I'm glad he made it simple. Yeah, he did make it simple. And look, and I'm not and I'm just trying to, what I'm really trying to do is just show some praise for OG. because that's the level he had just played at.

And he was good in the first two games, too. But he was sensational in games three and four. In fact, we're going to tell me that tip in until the end of time. Like, my first grandchild was born like two months ago, and I said this when my grandson is 50, that play is going to be in the open for the NBA finals. Yeah. It is.

That's how iconic the play was. But I go back to where his shot making earlier in that, that game, if he doesn't carry them for a stretch offensively, it's not a 29 point deficit. It's a 40 point deficit. That's right. And now that's not happening. 29 still shouldn't have happened, but 40 ain't happening. So I go back to that, keeping your head above water with his shot naked.

So his offense, his consistency, his efficiency, his shooting splits were insane throughout the postseason run. He is now, yes, he's elevated himself to where now going into. the next year, like he's genuinely a guy that because of his defense component, he's genuinely a guy that has a shot at making it in all league team. And to round it out with the Knicks roster, I mean, Kat, I don't know that anybody has done more to not rehab the reputation, but to just elevate the reputation as he's done in New York. And, you know, there's people that question him throughout his career. And I thought, even if it was just game one, coming out,

and bullying Wemby. I mean, they fucking needed that. And, you know, and he was in foul trouble a lot, and there were some games where late, I'm like,

fourth quarter, he's taking three shots. I don't love that. But, like, his aggressiveness early in this series, it felt like he was the tone setter for this whole group. Yeah, he went out Wembe,

and I think it affected Wembe dramatically, um, offensively. Yeah. Because he's not used to guys going out of to that extent. Anthony Towns, and you go back to the Oklahoma City Series.

Remember Chappenheim and like how he looked at the end of that series, particularly, you know, he gets a shot blocked early in game seven. He gets dunked on early in game seven. He was shook. There's no other way to put it. He was shook. Took two shots in a game seven and you remained third team all NBA. Okay.

And go back to now game one, Carl Anthony Towns. One of his first drives against Wemby, beats him off the dribble on a close out, thinks he's got to lay up. Wemby comes from behind, blocks it out of a playoff. bounds. And it was like, wow, we were marveling at this recovery length that he has. The very next time Carl Anthony Towns caught the ball, he went right at him again and got to the rim this time and finished. And it just showed you the confidence, the tone, how physically he was going to be with him, he was going to go at him and it make him work. It affected him.

Now, he wasn't, Carl Anthony Towns had foul trouble issues from after game two, basically, the rest of the series wasn't as big of a factor offensive as he was earlier in the playoffs, still a major reason why they won. And the one thing that never changes with him, he rebounds the ball, whether he gets shots or not. I've loved that about him since he got to New York. His whole career, really. You can pencil in 10 to 15 rebounds,

even if he's not getting a lot of shots. And some guys stop working on the glass if they're not touching the ball. So give him a lot of credit. The other thing was amazing to me with the Knicks. When they went to this reinventing themselves against Atlanta down 2-1, you know, Mike Brown said a light ball went off.

We have to change our offense. Carl Anthony Towns has to be more corporate as a password, take advantage of his size, his skill is a passer from the top of the key elbows. They did something very rare. They took a guy that's an all-star caliber player, and they somehow went to him and were like, hey, look, here's the plan. You're not going to get as many shots. You're not going to score as much, but you're going to be more important than ever.

What do you think? And like, that's not a buy-in for guys in the NBA. Like, you got to, that's your sales pitch. But yet, because of who he is, he said, I always wanted to showcase my passing. I wanted to be considered that. So even though his shots went down, his inclusion went up. And as a result, his general vibe exuded positivity and confidence. And it changed the dynamic of their offense.

It made Bridges a better off-ball cutter to now all of a sudden he's putting up historic shooting splits for a wing for like a 10-game stretch. And it'll be the same. So I give cat credit because his, when your scoring numbers drop, your shots go, down. Usually guys are ticked off about that. And maybe they mope a little bit. Maybe they don't rebound the same. They're not bought in mentally. It affects the locker room dynamic. None of that happened with him because all he wanted to do be included and get credit for it. And he did. And it kind of changed their postseason trajectory as a team. This is a fun topic for me because I think the NBA,

and we alluded to it earlier, like, or at least I did. And I could be wrong. But I feel like the super team era is kind of, it's in the past, at least for now. there's been a pivot to building the right way, the right way. You know, and the Knicks are kind of an example of that. The Spurs are certainly an example of that. The Thunder are an example of that. I just, you got three guys that played at Nova together, you know, and then you got one guy who's an Eagles fan in Carl Anthony Towns.

So you've got this Philly contingency. But what's it mean to have a team that's close in today's NBA? Because they're not all that way. It doesn't seem. And you got three guys that have been playing ball together for a long time, taught by one of the best coaches in college basketball history. And you talk about the making unselfish decisions that this team does. I mean, it just their character seems high.

And I think back to teams that like when I was growing up, not that I didn't love watching the Lakers or whoever it was, but like when the Pistons won, I don't know, it was 04 or something like that. I think I was in high school. I remember thinking like this is the most gritty, unselfish team. There's no quote unquote superstars. Maybe it's the Detroit thing that was kind of,

that was kind of bleeding into the brand for me. But like, where do you put the Knicks in the pantheon of unselfish, gritty championship teams? Yeah, they're going to be a team that's going to be looked at for a long, long time as having some of the best chemistry.

Chemistry, yeah. That you've had. And it's on end off the court. It's guys that grew up together because you kind of grow up. There's formative years coming out of the A.U circuit into college, playing for a program that embodies what that's all about and the selflessness with which you have to play, with which you have to adapt to certain ideologies from a coaching standpoint to fit in. And there were guys, not every guy that Jay Wright recruited did, and they didn't last very long.

They didn't have success in that program because they couldn't adapt for the greater good. And that's what all of these guys knew how to do. And now you all come together on the same NBA team. The only guy that you feel for a little bit is Dante Di Benchenza, who was that other Nova Nick that now ends up in Minnesota. And of course, he had a horrible, you know, Achilles injury at the end of his season, right in front of us, you know, 10 feet away from where we were sitting. And so you're sitting there looking at him and go, man, they almost had four of these guys. And Ryan Archie Diakino was on those. teams as well who was the point guard on the national championship that they won on

Chris Jenkins big shot he was on the next for a short period of time so it was like Nova 2.0 but like that matters you carried these friendships that you had during those formative years you know each other's families you know your their parents first names there is a connection and a bond that a chemistry that you have when you care about people on a human level it carries over to how you feel about them on the basketball court um and the leadership of course qualities that they all have. It was incredible to watch. And then, you know, of course, not all these guys were from that mode. You get Kat. You make that trade. Going in, everybody's like, wondering, how is this going to fit? How's it going to work out? Randall

Kat? You go get OG Annanobie. You trade all the picks to get Mikhail Bridges. So they not only did they identify Brunson as the guy, it's the other pieces that they that they chose to add and they hit home runs, man, on all of these. Even though at times, these guys could be criticized in different ways. When push came to shove and the opportunity, the path was in front of them because of kind of the way the East looked this year. And I said to myself many times, and on the air, if not this year, when the hell were they going to win a title? When you had Boston missing Tatum most of the year, Halliburton's out for the Pacers. Pistons don't have enough shooting.

The calves we know like struggle in pressure moments and supposedly, this was the year. to go get this done. And they did it because they came together exactly the right time. But that chemistry on and off the court, a big deal of why this was able to happen. I got to hit this before I let you go here. And this is my first take moment. You know, I grew up watching the Knicks and some great players.

And I do think for the record they probably win. One, maybe two titles of Jordan is never born. But this is, you alluded to it. it's a good time for this team to have a shot at it, to have a crack at it. We're kind of in this transition period. Looking at history, where do you rank Jalen Brunson as a Nick? I know some people have been debating that among all the all-time great Knicks. You know, I think it's so like to me people, and this is obviously so subjective, right?

So people can go and have their definitive opinion. And so this is what social media has created. Oh, man, don't get me started. People don't have opinions anymore. They don't have opinions anymore. They just know more than you. They know. Right?

They just know. No, no, it's a fact that this guy's better or this guy's better or whatever the hell it is. Right. So it's subjective as hell. I always look at it. I always say this. There's no wrong answer. Right.

Just make your case and have just argument to back it up. Jalen Brunson is right there in the conversation with the greatest Knicks of all time. and there's no question about that. Now, the longevity is not there yet as a Nick, and that's going to maybe people want to say Patrick Ewing, like if that's your guy or Clyde Frazier's your guy and they were there a lot longer, then that's fine, man. I get it.

If that's a big part of the criteria, problem is like what Jail and Brunson just did in this run and how great he has been and how great he was. So that erases a lot of the longevity conversation. So okay, so forget about that. But now what if he goes on to have another four, five, whatever I many years as a Nick at this level playing great. And maybe never wins another one. Then with that longevity to now get into that conversation for the people that that's a

big part of the criteria, fine. Then no other Nick's going to have this. And now he separates. So I guess my answer to your question is it's not, it's unfinished, man. We've got to wait and see what else happened to Jell and Brunson going forward. But there is no doubt he has thrust himself into any conversation of the greatest Nick of all time. And his name has to come up in that conversation now. And I think going into this postseason, I don't think anybody was going to say that necessarily about Jalen Brunson. Because at that point, it's like he'd have to play 10 years at this level, maybe never get a

championship. And then, okay, he's been here for 10 years at this level. Now he's in the conversation. Guess what? He just thrust himself there in one postseason. Now it's, does he claim it? Let's see what happens going forward. All right.

Game four, you look around the crowd, who's a celebrity you were most excited to see, and then who's somebody that you were, you spotted maybe with not so great seats, so you were surprised they weren't sitting closer. You know, two of the guys that kind of were like, you know, Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle, I looked up at home point, Dave Chappelle, Taylor Swift was five feet in front of me. You're going, you know, I'm not like a huge, like Taylor Swift music fan, whatever. It is what it is. I've never been to one of her concerts, but I do know this.

that's one of the most famous people on the planet. On the planet. I know that. And she was five feet in front of me. And I was like, that's pretty cool. Ernie got a picture. Oh, man, Ernie, man. And I'm like Ernie Johnson.

He's the greatest. And we had known each other a long time. But now obviously they're part of our team. Yeah. So I got to spend time with Ernie throughout this postseason run and the finals run. And I got to know him at a greater degree. And I'm going, this dude, is he walk into it or what? Not only does it, you get that picture.

It was like, it was literally as if they were in some sort of a studio getting the shot. That's how perfect the picture was. It was one take, one take one shot. That's all you get. Go ahead. I would probably have one eyelid closed or something about trying to pull it right. And yet, 30 Johnson, it looks like they went and staged it. And it happened in a blink of an eye as she's like walking past the set.

Oh, that was unbelievable. I love seeing Larry David. I hated seeing it because Josh Hart missed the layup. But did you see he almost hit the deck when Josh Hart. missed the layup. I did. I did. You know,

one of my favorite reactions, by the way, was Jerry Seinfeld's reaction. He genuinely looked like, he just kept saying, no way. No,

that didn't happen. It couldn't have happened after OG's tip in. Oh, it was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. And you got to see it. It had to be as much energy

as any building you maybe ever been in. But it's for another day. I've never seen an environment, like never seen an environment like that. The last thing I'll ask you is this, what's your commander's prediction

for this year? This is a football. Man, oh man, We got legs on and, you know, he says he's a commies fan. Yeah, you're talking about our last Super Bowl in 91. That's how long it's been for a proud team. I know the Knicks.

You like the Knicks. Yeah, man, the long suffering. So you can appreciate my cynicism. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. And look, Jane Daniels changed a lot of that for me. Yeah. For all of us.

And we go to the NFC championship game two years ago. And it was kind of an unexpected. Like, man, we're here already. Like, damn. And then, of course, you know, what happened in the Eagles game that, you know, they got smoked, they'll turn over here, going, okay, it's fine. It's fine. But they need this lesson.

And, like, we're there. And then they come back and they win, what, five games? He's hurt the entire year. So now, I'll be the first two minutes. I don't know what the hell I'm about to expect. I do know this. The schedule's brutal. Yeah.

And if he doesn't find a way to stay upright and not get tackled as much as he does, his career, unfortunately, he's not going to be what we think. So let's pray. they've learned that lesson. That guy gives you a chance every night. But looking at the schedule, bouncing back from the injuries, so some uncertainty changing both coordinators,

I'm going to say, conservatively, let's go nine and eight. Nine and eight. This is a, you're one of those really realistic NFL fans, and I appreciate that because you didn't come on here into a 17 and oh,

man. No, man. No. You're a Washington fan, dude. Van Peltz a commanders fan too. and we go through this every year when the schedule comes out. I'm always on the show. We go over the schedule and he starts reading off every game.

And like every time he did it, we would laugh because I would come back at conservatively, 13 and 4, that sounds like to me. And he would say conservatively. Yeah. But I have to temper things this year with what we went through a year ago, man. I just have to. But I'll be there. I know that.

I got season tickets. And I'm an idiot. I fly up for games down in Florida, a lot of good part of the year. I fly up for, again, you game and fly back. So I'll be there. You can count on that. I'll see you at one. Maybe you come up to the link.

Yeah, please. Come say hello, man. But yeah, Tim Legler, man, appreciate you so much. Thanks for joining the show. Always enjoyed your work. And definitely enjoyed it this week. The Knicks of the champs, baby. Appreciate you joining us.

No doubt. All right, buddy. You got it. Chris, anytime, man.