Green Light with Chris Long - Jeff Pearlman! Author of the Book Behind HBO's 'Winning Time' Series, Chronicling the Rise of the 1980's Los Angeles Lakers. Kobe Bryant, Barry Bonds and Bo Jackson. Worst Pro Sports Logo Draft and Mailbag.

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

(2:22) - Hello, Layup Line, Who Deserves a Biography and Answering the Age Old Question; Does Listening to a Book on Tape Count as Reading? (20:05) - Jeff Pearlman Discusses the Upcoming HBO Series 'Winning Time' Based on His Book, "Showtime" About the Lakers 1980's Dynasty. Stories about Barry Bonds, Bo Jackson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. (1:33:37) - Worst Pro Sports Team Logo Draft (2:05:55) - Mailbag and What Would You Do if Stuck in a Time Loop? Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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In Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey, and Virginia call 1-800 gambler. and in Michigan, 1,800-2707-1-17. In New York, 18778, Hope, N.Y. Tennessee, 1-800-9-9-7-89. On the Greenlight Pod, Chris and Macon chat with acclaimed sports writer Jeff Pearlman about the new HBO show, winning time, based on his book, Showtime, about the 80s Lakers Dynasty. And Jeff talks about adapting sports books to the screen and some of his other projects,

like the 86 Mets, Walter Payton, Brett Favre, and Bo Jackson. Then Taylor and Dr. Fax join for a worst sports logos draft and some mailbag questions. Enjoy. Euclid, Ohio. Hello! Why Euclid? Why not? I'm on a random city generator here for the past couple weeks,

and I'm not proud of it, but I'm also not proud of my hello. So things ebb and they flow, and we get into ruts, and I'm currently in a rut. Anybody famous from Euclid? Jerry Tarkanian. Oh my God. I'll be damned. Holy shit.

That's a little Easter egg for you. Did you do that? No, I just saw it on the screen. Because this is two hellos in a row. Last week, there were like 18 degrees of separation, Kevin Bacon. Is that more or less separate than? What was it last week? It was Inception.

It was Hello Inception. Paxton Lynch thing. That's right. Daytona, Delton. And you're going to hear about Jerry Tarkhanian a little bit later in the show. Yeah, Jeff Perlman, who wrote Showtime. It's being adapted. I mean, if you've been living under a giant rock, there's going to be a show about the Lakers in the 80s.

It's going to be awesome. Magic, Kareem, Pat Riley, Jerry Bus, the whole thing. It's such an interesting story. And, like, starting to read Jeff's book here. And I've read a great deal of his three-ring circus with Kobe and Shaq and Phil. this interests me almost more because it's an era where you had even less information. And like when you talk about the Lakers

in the late 70s and 80s, it's totally different franchise. And it's just like a couple little things go differently, including Magic Johnson maybe. Not being a Laker. Or Jerry Tarkhanian's friend, not dying and then being thrown into the back of a... Rose Royce.

All this stuff. Like one little thing changes and they're probably not the Lakers that we know today. And so Jeff Pearlman taking a deep dive into this, like unsurprisingly, people like this is fucking gold. Let's make a TV show. So HBO definitely was like, nah, we're not doing showtime, bro. Like we can't do showtime. Winning time. Jeff Pearlman, though, he's made it.

We're going to talk to him for a long time in a couple minutes here. And for those of you who don't like reading, this is perfect. You can hear all about it, then watch the TV show. Or you can do an audio book like me. That's how you're reading it? Yeah, 2x. I think you should have shared that. That feels like it should have been a disclosure.

Really? Yeah. Really? Do you know who is reading it? Is it Jeff or somebody else? I don't think it's Jeff. It's not Jeff. It's not Jeff because the first time I heard his three ring circus thing, I was like, that's

how do you go about picking who reads your audio? book. Like who reads your audio book? Can we stop this slander though? Like listening to an audio book is reading? Yeah, make, you're being a fucking turd right now, no offense. If you listen to an audio book all the way through, how do you express it to someone other than saying, I read the book? You say you read it, but it's a lie. You didn't read it. I read the book. No. I've read four chapters of the book. No, you've listened to it. And that's fine. And that's fine. And it's a fine experience, just a very different one. So you don't think blind people can read books.

Right. Well, there's Braille. You really stepped in it there. Well, there's Braille. Yes, there is Braille. But they're not reading it. That's fingering a book. Oh, God.

Well, to be fair. I get what you're saying. Your apps, I think this is the wrong take here. And it's okay. I'm just trying to think of a way to pin you down on it, honestly, is what I'm doing right now. But you're clear on what I'm saying. Like it's not a it's not a worse way to consume it. And it's you're still getting all the words into your head pictures in theory.

But it's not reading. You're not reading. You're listening. You're not reading. It's kind of like walking though in the airport on the fucking on the moving sidewalk. Like I'm getting where I need to go. That's a good analogy. You know what I mean?

And you're getting there faster. Yeah. And you really want to walk and that's fine. But you might miss your flight. Get my stuff. It's more rewarding. Might miss your flight. That's right.

Listen, we had an interesting conversation with a friend of ours the other night. It's coincidental that we're having somebody, a biographer on. He said you can't write books about the living. He said it's creepy. It's stalkerish. Stalkerish is how he described it. That is the worst take I've ever heard. We both heard it at the same time at a bar the other night.

Our friend who will go unnamed doesn't think you should write books about the living because it's creepy. So he thinks Jeff Pearlman is a creep. Like the biggest creep. He's got to think Jeff Perlman. And then we got to talking about this. Like it's an interesting topic. Like what constitutes,

what is the Mendoza line for you having a book written about you? Because I think that there are certain people that should not have books written about them because they're not very few people. In fact, the list of people. We kind of got to the point where we'll write a book about anybody. Oh yeah. I disagree with you.

I think anybody can have a book written about them. You think so? For sure. Now, the onus is upon the author to make it interesting. I think my take is that it's not a bad look to write a book about somebody who doesn't deserve a book written about them. You are profiting off that. It's a bad look for the person who's like, yeah, I'll sit down and tell you about my four

years in the NBA. You know, like, so the onus is on, again, we agree. the onus is on, well, in my opinion, the subject of the book. Like, know who you are. Damn. So if someone approached me just because I only had four years in NFL, I can't write a book, Chris. I don't think I'm worth writing a book about it. I was 11 years in the NFL.

Like, all I'm saying is- Who gives a shit about the NFL? I'd rather read a book about my mailman. So where is the Mendoza line for having a book read? And I agree with you in an almost different way. Like your life is more interesting than somebody who, He played 15 years. Yeah.

But to his point, the mailman probably has a real interesting life. Or sure. You see a lot of different people. By the way, shout out to my mailman. He retired. Oh, look at that. Oh, that's the... You're talking about...

Yeah. You need to find someone to write a book about him. He sent a card. You probably got one of your mailbox, too. It made me kind of sad. When I think about a mailman retiring, it's kind of sad. Like, you guys know your mailman? Like, know him personally?

That's crazy. Well, anyways, when the mailman retires... He sent me a thank you note after a Christmas gift. Did you give him anything at Christmas? Yeah. Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, we gave him money. So did I.

Okay. Did you get the thank you note? I don't keep track of thank you, as I'm all about outgoing, not keeping score. But I just, if you're some people, you should really consider not having a book written about you. It's a self-important thing to be like, yeah, I'm going to sit with this guy for what you really think. Yeah, wrong take. Really? Yep.

So the Mendoza line for you is like 0.0.0, yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I think the Mendoza line for somebody like seven years in the NFL. No, I think it's Nick Foles. Nick Foles has a biography. Any other of my teammates that had a book written about him, I'd laugh at them.

But like Nick Foles pulls it off because he's a remarkable person. He has gravitas. He's like this unlikely story, but he's also famous, but he's also kind of like, don't you think the whole point of writing one of those books, So is at the end of it, people feel just like what you're saying, this person is marvelous? Like, wouldn't that be the only reason why? A lot of these books now are very like about my life and how you can have one like mine too.

And it's not, that's not how life works. You can't just be like, let me read this guy's book. I'm going to be fucking, I'm going to be an astronaut because I've read a book about an astronaut. Like you can't learn how to be an astronaut in a book. You got to fucking be in a, you got to go to Ryan Gosling school. You got to spin you around. I just read a book about Edith Farnsworth. Who's Edith Farnsworth?

Farnsworth. She had a house built for her near Chicago on the Fox River. Right. And it didn't go so well. You should read it. It's called Broken Glass by Alex Beam. Where's your Mendoza line, Matt? It's probably just north of you.

Really? You think somebody just north of me is... I mean, I don't give a shit. Would you let Maken go straight? your biography? No. English major. No, not at all. I have the best words. Great grammar but also a liar. So there's a couple issues we're running into here. I'm actually one of my best qualities is honest. Really? I think it's the best policy. Yeah, I've said that for a long time. And true to form. One of my best qualities is being truthful. No, one of your best qualities is being funny.

You're a funny guy, funny guy. Thanks. I lie. Sometimes. About? On the air. sometimes, mislead? Oh, that's a bit. That's for the sake of comedy. The more people you lied to, the less serious it is. Real estate, comedy, faith, family football, five pillars. So anyways, tell us what you think the Mendoza line is for having a, you know, a biography written about.

And why is an autobiography, you know, like anybody can have a book written about them? When do you think life starts at conception? Wow. You're the one who doesn't think blind people know anything because they had to have read the book. You have to read it the old-fashioned way. Well, you can't write a book about a dog? You gotta read a book just like they did.

I need a quill and a fucking candle on my desk. Millions of books written about dogs. Is that okay with you? Yeah, about dogs and what dogs are like... They didn't like make it through any training camps. What dogs are about? And I was just, we were only using the NFL here. Actually, it probably made it through a bunch of training camps.

There's lots of dog training out there. That's true. Some of the best dogs. All I'm saying, yeah, you want to write a book about dogs? You want to write a book about one dog that ran across the country just saving people in fires? Like, just went and found the next fire. Why do they have to achieve something great? I could write a book about the rabbit who takes 10 naps a day.

I could go on and on and on. I'm saying for me to read the book, like personally to see the book is like, hey, this is cool. You know, for you, yeah, you'd read like some, like minimalist Zoe Rabbit by Macon. You're not picking it up. I'll sign it. The dog. To Chris. Best wishes.

Is it a picture book? No, it's not. There are some pictures, yeah. But no, I'm going to write. All I'm saying, dude, all I'm saying is some guys these days end up looking kind of funny being like, yeah, I'll take the book deal. And then I'll like being Barnes & Noble and I'll know the guy or something and I'll be like, Bad look, buddy. So that was hello.

Euclid Ohio. Euclid Ohio. Hey, let's just do a shuffle. Okay. You want to do a layup line shuffle? I'd love to. Yeah? Hey, I need to get off here of the green light pod because I was listening to it here.

So to get to my library. You're like an autobiographer. Fucking creep. Isn't that sweet, though? I think what our friends said. is just, it's assinide. I think books should be written about a lot of people, just not some.

I'm not picking up. Give me a celebrity. I'll tell you if I'd read a book. Dave Matthews. Probably not. He's just a really talented white guy. I already know what being a white guy's like. You know?

Like the talent part, like the musical talent, but he's just, he's very interesting, very smart, very personable guy. He's different, right? I got it. Antonio Brown. I think I'm an audio book that Uh, what

Denzel Washington? Well, it depends. Was it, would he have an interesting childhood? You got to listen to the book. No, I do want to Denzel. Anything that's behind the scenes,

Hollywood, like stories about what people were really like at like dinner and shit or on the set. I'm in. Will Smith, definitely, because everybody was fucking each other. I just want to know who was fucking who.

I was watching the SAG awards last night. Not so much the awards. with the red carpet. Yeah. And the interviewer with Will and Jada at the end was like, hey, we'll keep listening to the show and, hey, no more entanglements, you too. And I was like, wow, that's really awkward and kind of disrespectful to say. Well, the only reason it's not is because it's kind of a known thing that they've been entangling

for quite a while. Well, no doubt, but still probably not the number one thing they want to talk about on a red carpet. Maybe he was shooting his shot. You ever think about that? Dave, what's in it? Would you read a Dave biography? I know it's a loaded question for you. You know all about Dave.

No, I probably wouldn't. Not a big reader. I also know, like, I've been to Millers. I've been to Millers. I know where the warehouse is. You know what I'm saying? Shout out to Dave Matthews. Okay, ready?

Yeah, I'm hitting the button. Hit the button. Old Town Road. Featuring Billy Ray Cyrus. Bro, I wanted to murder that song. Little Naz-X. Circa, 2017. I think because my kids

went it into the ground. He's the best marketer in the past 10 years. Okay. April 2019 in the city of Minneapolis, Minnesota, those Texas Tech fans commandeered Old Town Road by Lil Nas X and Billy Ray. Danny Mandol owes me a tattoo. And boy, was it nice to win that national championship game.

Mainly because it would have been really not nice. really not nice to losing. That's for sure. I'd just love to lay you down, Conway Twitty. Lay you down and softly whisper. Ooh, that might be my nominee right there. Taylor's deciding today. Third one, Cecilia, Simon and Garfunkel.

Fire from me. Yeah, that's pretty good. Damn. What are you shuffling off of, like, what list? Spotify. Just all our songs. My library. This is a good opportunity to re-explain the song.

segment because I've had people ask me years into this podcast what a segment means. Oh, count me among them. Time is on my side, the Rolling Stones, also known as Denzel Washington's favorite Rolling Stone song. That was the soundtrack from, what's the movie where he's the devil? Fallen, Fallen. Fallen. Fallen. It's in the trailer. I guarantee you. You're going to like the way you look.

You're going to hear time is on my side. I guarantee you. Okay. The Mountain by the Heartless Bastards. I don't even know what that song sounds like. Fell on Black Days by Soundgarden. Hmm. So. Rough one for you. Yeah. Fuck. Can we get your final nominee for each and then Taylor will decide? Yeah, sure. I'm going to go Fell on Black Days, Soundgarden. I'd love to lay you down Conway Twitty

I'm unfamiliar with making songs So by default I'm gonna go with Chris SoundGuard You see how I just fucking played chess? Oh no no no no no no I think you've misunderstood I'm not trying to be selected Yeah I'm trying to be true to myself And that's the song I wanted to pick

So Taylor looking like an idiot Isn't a reflection on me Hey Soundgarden great band I don't know what you have against dead singers Hey Conway Twitty had a fucking some lettuce on him, didn't he? Yeah, probably real too, even though it doesn't look it. Bro, Conway Twitty had Lego Man hair.

That's a compliment. It's not going anywhere. It's attached to your head. It's thick. All right, Jeff Pearlman. Showtime. Thick books. If you're in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey, New York, Tennessee, or Virginia, and you haven't tried the Winbet app yet, I got great news for you. Winbet is now offering $200. and free bets for new users.

That's right, 200 big ones. Winbet is basically giving you free money. Don't pass it up. Download the Winbet app today. Terms and conditions apply. It must be 21 or older and present in a state where win bet is available. Gambling problem in Arizona, call 1,800 Next Step.

In Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey, and Virginia, call 1-800 gambler. And in Michigan, 1-800-2707-1-1-7-1-7. In New York, 18778-8-Hope, N. Tennessee, 1-800. My good friend, Jeff Pearlman is, he's not only famous right now, but he's also podcasting in a closet. And that's, that's commitment. Jeff is not only making time on a Monday, but he is, he's slipped into the closet.

There are nice ties over his right shoulder. He's wearing a Lyle Al-Zato t-shirt. I love that. What's up, Jeff? I'm, you know what strikes me, do you ever have this happen to you? I am wearing a hat from my alma mater today, the University of Delaware. And on the side of my Twitter feed, all of a sudden it popped up people to follow University of Delaware with this logo. Do you ever just feel like, I'm actually being serious.

Do you ever just feel like? Yes, we're being watched. We're being listened to. I'll talk to my wife about something. And then the next Instagram targeted ad is exactly that. Super weird. It is fucking weird. UD.

Now if Udana's Haslam rings your cell phone today, you're really going to have a, an issue. Yeah, that'll be the whole issue. I mean, so the Lila Azado t-shirt. We actually were digging and in 1999, speaking of Howie Long and paying homage to the Raiders and that badass defensive line, what did he rank the top? Top 50 athletes from every state, is that right? Which is an incredible undertaking, Jeff. I mean, without the internet, this whole thing, like, I do want to ask how the hell you did that. But Howie Long was what? 14th.

In Massachusetts, behind a, what is it was the hockey player's name, Matt? Robbie Futoric was 12th. What the fuck happened, Jeff? I didn't have Massachusetts. We split it. The current,

I swear to God, the current editor of Sports Illustrate, Steve Kinell, and I split the states. And I had end through the end of the alphabet, and Steve had a through and. You want to relieve. It was the worst project ever.

Wait, how do you do a project like that? It was terror. So basically it was the end of, It was coming toward the end of 1999, and the editors were like, we want to do the 50 greatest athletes from every state. We're going to have a different cover in every state, which at the time was a big undertaking.

And they took me and Steve Connell, two baseball writers, young baseball writers and that had us do it. Basically, we were digging through media guides, calling people state Hall of Fame. We had stringers sending in information. My favorite moment was I had North Carolina, and I was reading all these articles about North Carolina. And I read and this is how pathetic,

these lists are. I read an article about a guy named Walter T. Pot-Fry, who was a deceased minor league middle infielder from North Carolina, and his family was trying to get him in the State Hall of Fame. And I thought, I wonder if I put this guy on the list at number 50, if he'll get him in the State Hall of Fame just because I read about him wanting to be on the list. So I made him number 50 in North Carolina. And a few weeks later, I'm reading the newspaper in Raleigh. And it's like, Sports Illustrated List convinces Hall to reconsider nomination. Oh, right. There we go. I was like a 27-year-old guy who had never heard of Walter T-Pot-Fry and me putting him on a list. You know the Elvis Gerbaugh story, right?

No. Oh, the Sports Illustrated story? Yeah, you know that one, right? Like, yeah, there was something that effective. He wasn't that sexy or it was the other guy that wasn't that sexy, and then they had like, it was Neil O'Donnell or somebody, maybe? No, it was Rich Gannon. Rich Gannon and sexy ass.

And Elvis Gert, it was, this is how dumb these lists are, though. It was like, sexiest, whatever, they did sexiest everything. and my friend, I actually broke that story. A friend of mine, a people told me that story how they told the people photographer, it's going to be the chief's quarterback. So we need to photograph the chief's quarterback, and they photographed Elvis Gerbaugh, and they bring the pictures back, and they're like, uh, and I think he said the chief's quarterback, and it was Gaddon.

They did the wrong guy. That is one of the most all-time amazing stories ever, like on multiple levels, because I had no idea that chicks were into Rich Gannon. Delaware, Delaware guy. a UD guy. So there you go. But Flacco, like just a bunch of sexy

quarterbacks coming out of UD. And sports riders and sports riders. Maybe Flacco in 99 would have made that list. But the times have changed. So Elvis Gerbach, they show up to Kansas City and they're like, I think you're the guy, right? And he's like, yeah, I'm here for the photo shoot.

Does a photo shoot. It gets printed. And people are like, I guess he's hot. They're holding the magazine, a weird angle. It's one of the most all-time, awesome stories. I had no idea you were connected to that. Yeah, correct. I love that story.

God, that's good. So I want to talk Jeff about a lot of stuff today, namely, you know, his 2014 book Showtime. It's all about the Showtime Lakers. And you know it now as it's going to be adapted onto, I don't know what you would call that, like the, basically the silver screen. It's HBO, man. Like, it's like a movie to me. I mean, like, this is like a movie project.

looking at the trailers and stuff it's incredible you're working with Adam McKay who you didn't know he didn't hear of sorry so good dude that's awesome and he's also got his podcast two writers slinging yang which I want to know what yang is he means uh talking shit talking shit

slinging yang throwing it around that's good who's the other writer that's whoever appears oh it's who that was me well that's what I was going to say is like because I've been on the podcast and I was not a writer. I'm wondering, I was like, where's the other writer?

But I'm perfectly sorry. You were the rare guest of what it's like for an athlete to deal with the press. I thought I'd throw a little. That's not true though, Jeff. Chris wrote a student newspaper entitled Satanly Speaking. That's true. Which was satirical. We had an actual school newspaper called saintly speaking.

And you were prolific. I think you wrote every article in the thing. Disturber and a promising young writer. And you just had Jim Hector on, which we can get into the entire story. But I'm curious, how many times have you been approached throughout your career? Hey, we're going to option this book.

And it never, ever, ever happens. I would say about 10, 10 or 11. And the first time it happened, I wrote a book called The Bad Guys One, which was about the 86 Mets. And I was my first book. And some guys, like, $30,000 to option your book. I'm like, $30,000 for just great. You know, you're telling everyone.

You're like, mom, dad, they're making a movie in my book. They're making a movie my book. Everyone, guess what? They're making it. And then, of course, it never happens. And the thing about this business that I have learned is there's so much bullshit. There's just so much bullshit. And everyone knows someone.

Everyone knows someone. Everyone, my uncle went to college with Denzel and he really blank, right? Or I know Julia Roberts. She, you live blank. And the low point for me actually came several years ago. I was at a place called the Soho House. in L.A. Someone took me there to show off his wares. And he wanted to buy the rights to a book. And he starts showing me pictures on his phone of all the women he's having sex with. And he's

literally scrolling through the pictures. And they're naked and half naked pictures that he took of them standing in his like hotel room or his apartment. And I was like, I'm just in the wrong place. Like this is, so by the time Jim Heck came along, I was like, I had no faith. No, I was just a complete skeptic to this whole world. Jim came to my house. Jim reached out to me. Jim and his partner Jason Schumann reached out to me and I was skeptical as always this is 2014 and I'm Jewish Jim is Jewish he came to my house Newershell New York Easter Sunday I still don't know why he was Easter Sunday but came on Easter Sunday I really want to talk to you about this book I love this book UIMD BM his main credit was Ice Age the meltdown I'm like I literally was the main credit I'm like

what does this have to do with anything and he comes to the door and he has three things with him which still my favorite thing in the world a block of chocolate of baker's chocolate in saran wrap a tomato like a big tomato and a drink of a bottle of wine drink not wine like wine like wine drink kind of like how like uh coolade is juice drink it's not actually use and my wife is like who the fuck is like who is this guy and i'm like it's jim hecked and he wants to buy you know and um he just talks about how he loves a book and it could be something and i don't believe him and through the years we have meetings and nothing happens and him and his partner they all every now and then they'll invite me to like a laker game and i'm like nah it's

okay, I can't come, but I just didn't believe anything. And I just had been through these experiences. And then one day, a few years ago, he's like, Adam McKay wants us to go to his house. It's going to be great. And that's when I was like, I don't know who this is, but I'll Google Adam McKay. And, you know, five years ago, I want to go to this guy's house? Yeah, fuck it. Let's go. But I mean, did you guys, five years ago? Did you guys know who Adam McKay was? No, but I've heard his name and I've watched his project. So, like, I've seen that, like, you know, I would associate the name with something movies, right, or something TV shows. I just thought it was interesting that you didn't know who he was because I consider you smarter and more plugged in.

What was your first impression of Adam McKay? So we went to his house. There was a beautiful house and he was lying on the couch and kind of like sweats. I don't remember if he was running basketball shorts or sweats. He just talking sports to me. He just wants to talk about sports and the Lakers. And he was just cool and chill. And I left there thinking there's no way this is going to happen because that's just my.

There's a thing you guys might not know this. like especially East Coast Jews, we are required by law, by biblical law, to always think the worst thing is going to happen. I might be an East Coast Jew. Yeah. Right. Yeah. We all have a little Jewish innocent.

And we're all required. Here we are. I was just always raised. My dad was always like, you know, never count on anything, never counted anything. So that's kind of me in my fallback. So I didn't believe it. Then I got one day, Jim's like, oh, HBO is going to do it. And I get contracts.

And I'm like, all right. And I sign these contracts. And I still don't think they're going to do it. And then one day I read on a website. that they cast, I think it was John C. Riley or Jason Clark or whoever. And people are emailing me and they're like, this, wow, this is crazy. And I'm like, I don't know. And then I think when they cast Sally Field, that might have been the Roman for me where I was like,

holy shit, that's kind of bigger than I thought. And he was said, before you get into the casting because I know you want to, I have two follow-ups. Was the big tomato incorporated into the meal? One, and two, did he, was he lying on the couch as you entered his home? It's a great question. I think we put out the wine drink, but did not put out the tomato. What are you going to put some basil, I guess? You put it out with some basil and maybe aside.

Olive oil, salt. Yeah, but it's like, it's weird that someone would bring. I think because it was Easter Sunday, my guess is, I've never confirmed this, is that he went through Grand Central Station in New York and maybe like two kiosks are open. And maybe the flower kiosk wasn't open or something. So he thought, what's better than flowers, a box of a block of chocolate and a tomato?

That's really going to win him over. and it did. So. Okay. That's amazing. He came over on Easter. And then you walk in and McKay is is horizontal. Is that he opened the door? I think he opened the door and then went to his couch.

To lay down. And he's just totally chill or is that a power move? I'm going to be horizontal. Oh, totally chill. Totally chill. Yeah. And if I wanted to, yeah. I should have countered by lying on his floor. I feel like if I was a fucking leverage. Who's got it now? Well, no, I just think this is the most interesting part.

Like from how much say-so do you have to like what are the biggest challenges of adapting something like this to to HBO or something like well the first question I have is obviously we changed the name of the book because of HBO's rival showtime yeah yeah yes what about it was they really wanted your book yeah it was um it was known as the showtime it was known like the project was like the showtime I don't order it was like the working project or showtime or and um when I found out they were changing it. I was upset for about, not mad or I think, just like disappointed for a couple minutes. And then you're like, I mean, they're still making the show. It's still based on my book.

I still get money. It's still cool. We got cameos in the show. Like, it's hard to be overly upset over something like that. You're in the show too. Yeah, and my wife and my kids. You're interviewing, was it Michael Cooper or something? Oh, I'm interviewing. I'm in the press, I'm with the commissioner at the time, Larry O'Brien, in his office. You only see the back and side of my body, but it's all good. I even think because it's called winning time, then everyone says based on the book Showtime by Jeff Pearlman. So it might be a blessing in disguise. It kind of works out. And plus it's on HBO, not Showtime. And I don't even know what the fuck they're doing on Showtime. Now, no offense to those people. But yeah, I'm an HBO guy, especially now. So you

look at this adaptation. I think one of the most interesting parts is the sports element of it. Like, I hate football movies, but I hate them because they're corny. Now, if I ever look closely, I would see that probably it didn't look like anybody had ever played football before. But I also know that like in my opinion if I were trying to adapt something or do a sports movie, probably the sports action is most difficult in basketball.

That's upon reflecting over the last day. Because baseball, there are a bunch of ISOs, like they're quick shots, anybody can look like they're swinging a bat. You can make a bat noise and then pan the left field or a guy waiting to put the tag on somebody. In football, like most people, can run and tackle.

But at basketball, it seems like there's probably extended action where people have to have real skills. And I know there was some training that went into like getting these actors. A lot of them not great basketball players, some adept, to look right on the screen. Yeah. It's actually funny. My wife always says I'm the worst audience for sports movies. And I think if there are two worst audiences, it's probably athletes number one and sports

writers number two. Because you just say like the movie 42. just as an example of the Jackie Robinson movie. I can't watch it. It makes me angry to watch a movie like that. Or Marshall. I just hate those movies. Because you see every flaw and you know every storyline and you know.

So this one's been interesting. Number one, they went a hardcore boot camp with these guys. Like the guy who plays Michael Cooper, who's one of my favorite guys in this experience, is a guy named Delante Desuzza. And he's a guy from Maryland. He was a track and field runner in college. And I saw his audition tape with basketball.

And it was bad. Like he's bad. He was not a good. And now he's been two years under hardcore basketball training, and he can legitimately play basketball. Also, a lot of these guys are actually our athletes. Like the guy who plays Kareem, Solomon Hughes, played center of cow,

then went on to play for the Globetrotters. Quincy Isaiah, who plays Magic, was a Division III college football player. Even Delante was a track runner in college. There are a lot of guys with basketball skills. And there's a football guy. There's a cow guy, right? Because I saw your Zoom that you posted,

Jeff had a cool thing if anybody to check out his Instagram where he talked to some of the actors that were on winning time. And like you were talking about Delante who he couldn't even, was it him that was shooting left handed or something? Yes.

Your coach was like, oh, we got a problem. He shows up and they didn't know he was lefty. Wrong hand. I mean, you also have a Cal former football player, wide receiver playing somebody. I thought all that stuff was very interesting. Like just not only can they play basketball and who's this coach, Adon something. He coached Steph Curry and a bunch of people you had like a real deal coach coaching these guys up. Yeah, they definitely worked out. And the other thing is,

obviously they have a lot of doubles. So like there are scenes where Magic Johnson going to the hoop and dunking is in Quincy Isaiah. It was actually a basketball player who played at Mississippi Valley State, I think was his main double, you know, and they do that a lot, which obviously you would do. Yeah, which you would do. So it looks very, very real. It's actually very authentic. If I'm Quincy, I'm like, fuck, I can't do this. Like, you need the double for this. Like, it's kind of insulting. Lower the rims. Yeah, right. Exactly. Like, it's a layup. We need the double. Yeah. Like, that's when you know you're bad. But I, I just think it's so interesting. Would you agree that basketball is the toughest one?

Or do you think there's another sport that's tougher to adapt? I think it's, I think in any major sports movie, when a guy doesn't know how to play baseball, or play a sport, it's painfully obvious. Like Timothy Robbins and Bo Durham is really, you know, he does not look like a pitcher at all. The movie's good enough that you get by it, right? But great movie, but brutally bad, you know, and they're like, if you see a guy swinging a bat

who does not know how to swing a bat. Yeah. So I just think, I don't think one sport is particularly harder. I just think if you know if they were lazy. Like we, my son and I love watching the movie, just because it's so awful, Teen Wolf. You ever see Teen Wolf with Michael J. Fox? I actually haven't.

and the unlucky few. You need to watch it because it's the worst. Michael J. Fox clearly has no athletic ability to speak up ever. And watching it, it's just like, oh, my God. So when it's bad, it's bad. And then this is really, really good, I think. I love the backstory with Larry Bird, that character. Tell us what happened with Larry Bird and kind of that casting process.

Well, it was supposed to be Bo Byrd was going to be Larry Bird. And that was a huge get. another guy I'd never heard of by the way does that make me uh bow burnham no I'm looking him up right now dude I'm the worst with this looking at his face no idea who he is yeah I had no idea who he was either and um because everyone texted me it was like they got Bo Burnham and I'm like oh you know like you know who Burma yeah yeah he's an American comedian actor musician singer and filmmaker okay right I didn't know who um Jason Clark was

Jason Clark wow you guys Oh, no, I'm bad with the name. Jason Clark was in Zero Dark 30. Correct. He's the guy who's playing Jerry West, and I think that's a great cast. I also think John C. Riley is a great cast. And at first, I think people are like a funny guy being Jerry Buss, but it makes a lot of sense. The more you learn about Jerry Buss, like in your book, the first word that came to mind,

it was like a different brand of billionaire than Jack Kent Cook, who was like seemed a little bit more maniacal. Like Jerry Buss was tacky. in an endearing way. In the late 70s way. Yeah, and I feel like John C. Riley is tacky. Like, and he tries to be tacky. Like, that's part of his case. I think so far from what I've seen, it's been awesome.

But tell me about Larry Bird because I interrupted you there. Oh, no. So Sean, you know, when he saw the show as being made, he was like, oh, Larry Bird, because he, he's a writer as well. And years ago, he optioned a book written by Seth Davis when March went mad, which was about Bird Magic and their copy. college rivalry. And he optioned it and he wanted to write and he wanted to play Bird. And he studied Bird and studied Bird and studied Bird for a totally different role. So Bo

Burdom drops out and they need a Larry Bird. It's actually crazy. And this guy, they call his agent calls him. And he's basically like, I've been waiting for this part my whole life. And he's, I'm not just saying this, ridiculously good. Like I've seen, and I've seen the first season. I don't, there's no way Bo Burnham could have been better at Larry Bird than this guy. He's made to do this. He's so good. It's also really nice. The thing is awesome, you touch on this. Like, these guys are so freaking happy to be doing this. Like they are.

It's like, like the guy Delante, I mentioned from Maryland. Like a year ago, he was flipping houses. And now he's starring in an HBO series. And there's one story after another, after another, after another of that. And when I see the commercial or the trailer, and it's like, Sally Field and Quincy Isaiah, and Aaron Brody and Solomon Hughes, it's like a dream-making TV show. Not just for me, like as a writer who's having this. crazy thing happen for all these young actors like again flipping houses on tuesday

HBO series on a wednesday it's just awesome it's cool it's like an intersection of like uh you know i've got this big resume and i'm acting next to somebody who who took a shot and ended up uh landing the gig of a lifetime it's like this every man and it could be sally field too but i i wonder about the height thing right because like that's something that actors do it all the time like tom cruise Oh, careful. Yeah, I know. Hey. John, who didn't like me talking about Tom Cruise?

John Ham's publicist. John Ham's publicist did not like me talking about. Really? Wait, why? Well, because he apparently runs Hollywood. They're like, yeah, hey, that was great. Can we cut the Tom Cruise height thing? And that wasn't a thing that John participated in.

That was all us. But out of respect for Tom Cruise, I'm not going to say how not tall he is, but he's not tall. And he wears like, okay, he said it. He said the quiet part. So Tom Cruise wears these like platform shoes. I'm sure like if you're shorter like you want to be around and the angles have to be right. And I'm sure you're now the reality is for the sake.

Like Pat Riley's tall and Adrian Brody who I think is cast very well. Not just because he looks like him. I think he'll do a really good job. Adrian Brody was in succession recently. Right? That's him. You got it. Yeah.

And I thought he was fantastic at like big dicking Logan. So he's going to be perfect. at being Pat Riley. But he's not 6-6 or whatever Pat Riley is. So, like, how are these people, how do you play with the angles and how do you put people in the right places? Have you been privy to some of those conversations? All right, so just keep in mind, and I'm just a writer,

so I don't want to be like pretend I'm like the Super Hollywood Insider, but I can tell you. So the interesting thing is, like Solomon used, a guy playing Kareem, is actually 610, like a legit 610. He played center, a cow. Yeah. But Quincy Isaiah, who plays Magic, is only 6-2-ish, and magic was six nine and part of magic's the whole thing about magic is he's a big point card

entering the NBA so I know one of the things they do is and I was there is he just wore these really high shoes at one point so you wouldn't see the shoes but you'd see the height it would equal kind of make the height disparity more manageable but I just think also everything is relative so if Pat Riley and Jason Siegel I mean excuse me if Adrian Brody and Jason Siegel who plays Paul Westhead are the same heightish uh in real life and they have happen to be 6-1, but they're supposed to be 6-5 and 6-4, let's just say. It wouldn't even notice a difference because they're the same height. So most of these guys, if two 6-foot-1 basketball players are supposed to be 6-8, but they're both

6-1, it seems like everything is relative. It's just so funny with a sports thing like this where, you know, everybody knows height, everybody knows, like what position guys played. Like, there's another layer of, this is like one of the most challenging things I could imagine doing. And it seems like you guys have stuck the landing, you being the one who kind of birth this project in your writing, but like the people that cast this thing, the whole thing. And I wonder when you pass that baton, how fucking scary is it? Because this is your baby.

And now I assume a lot of the things we're talking about, you don't get a huge saying. Yeah, right. And I shouldn't. I kind of have this thing. Like, I never wanted to be the writer. When this whole thing started this ride began, like I really, really, really didn't want to be the writer who's over. hanging everything because there are horror stories of the writer who overhangs. That happens a lot, huh? And someone has to politely ask the writer to leave or like, listen, man, we really respect you, but you know, you kind of need, if you could just, you know, maybe come less. And I know it.

And it's not my profession. And I kind of view it as like, I really do. I wrote the book and now it's theirs. Like, I wrote the book. I'm responsible for the book. And they're responsible for this. Adam McKay and Jim Hect and Max Bornstein and all the writer. Like this is their thing now.

and they've been graces times a thousand like Kevin Messick who works with Adam McKay has sent me every script they send me every episode they let us be in the show I've been to set about five times

they've asked me a lot of questions about just the authenticity of different things I'll get calls from Jim or from Kevin saying do you think this is right? Does this make sense? And to speak to the authenticity that really blew my mind there was a moment and this is how big of a geek I am too

like I was watching an episode I forgot what team it was was. But they had, they were playing a team, and they had all the bench guys wearing the warm-up jackets. And during this time period, most NBA warm-up jackets had the guy's name stitched into the back. And I was like, I watched this team walking off the court. And I saw one name. I don't remember who was anymore, but I saw one name. And I was like, just being a nerd, I was like, I don't think that guy was on that team when this is taking place. And I looked it up on basketball reference.com, and I was right. He wasn't on the team. I'm just a loser. I was a loser. I don't.

I'm total loser. And I texted Kevin Messick, and he's like, oh, man, that's awesome. Thank you. That's really good. Good to know this stuff. Like, they are so hypervigilant about being right. Yeah. My wife is always blown away when they do the coin toss in the commissioner's office,

when it's who's going to get the number one pick, the balls of the Lakers, to get Magic Johnson. How about that too? Oh, it's crazy. It's crazy. And he called heads. I went against the grain called heads and won. That's incredible to get Magic Johnson with a heads call.

Don't you think, though? I always think like in the Super Bowl. whatever they called tails, it winds up heads. I just think it's almost like which supermarket line do you pick, and you always pick the wrong line. I just feel like if you go against the grain and you're wrong, you're fucked. Here you go. If you call tails.

Segway. Yeah. How much of a heads, tails was it between Magic Johnson and Sidney Moncrief for that number one pick? That's interesting. So, wait just one of the coin, if you look at the coin,

it says like 1977. Like they weren't going to use like a coin that says anything after 1979. They were just super hypervigilant. Wow. Yeah, everything's like that. You feel good about that. You feel great about that. Oh, they were like early, early on in the process.

I got a call and someone was like, do you know what the Summer League uniforms look like? Do you have a picture of the Summer League uniforms from 1979 when Magic was there? Now, they could have lazily made a Summer League uniform and 99.999% of people would have no clue ever. They were hypervigilant about making sure it's the exact uniform. And I found an old photo. They found out what material was made of. they remade the jerseys. So when you see Magic Johnson playing in the Summer League for the Lakers in 1979,

it is the Jersey exact replica of Magic Johnson for 1979. The basketballs, 1979 basketballs, recreated 100%. It's like hearing James Cameron talk about Titanic. It was like hyper-vigilant. So, and I want you to answer this question about Moncrief too, yeah. Yeah, but Kareem has come out and said, and Kareem, like, as described perfectly in the book, such an interesting character so like understandably untrusting of people like if you grew up like

kareem you're not going to trust people you know and an athlete anyways is kind of nervous when somebody's telling their story right i feel like though if they knew you and they knew the detail you know and the importance of like the truthfulness of the accounts of what went down over this time period kareem might feel better than he does about winning time because i saw a quote where he's like Showtime Lakers, that story should be told by people that live the Showtime Lakers. And of course, I'm sitting there reading the quote like, hey, Kareem, like that's kind of what's happening, right? Like, Perlman didn't make up these accounts.

Like, these were told by people in the building. How do you feel like knowing your name's attached to it, but maybe they might have issues with it and they're people that you probably adore? The thing is, it's just I have a distance between, like I wrote the book and I take full accountability for the book. Like the book is my thing. My name is on the cover. This is the book I wrote.

The TV show is inspired by the book, right? I want it to be great. I think they did a tremendous job. But at the end of the day, early out, in fact, it's funny. When the movie We Are Marshall came out years ago, I was talking to a friend of mine about it, a screenwriter,

because I hate that movie because it's about the Marshall plane crash, and they just do all sorts of nonsense to it. And I was actually mad. I was like, how do you, this disrespect where these people died? And he's like, you got to understand. There's a difference between real life and a movie.

And they're going to make adjustments and they're going to make adaptations. And it is entertainment. In factually, it is entertainment. So for me, like, if someone is upset because they have magic at a, like Norm Nixon, the character of Norm Nixon, a former Laker point card, he's played by his son in the show, which is amazing. Devon Nixon, Norm Nixon, some place, Norm Nixon. And there's a scene in the show where Norm Nixon is getting a pedicure.

and Norm Nixon said one day he's like, I never got a pedicure, right? But they were trying to show sort of the like style of Norm Nixon, like wearing a mink coat or whatever and getting a pedicure. And that's just the difference between a book and a movie and a TV show. Like you do things like that. And I'm very comfortable. Like that's just what it is. It's entertainment.

So and the thing about Korea, can I tell you a quick Kareem story? Yeah, and I'll tell you one too. Kareem has a worst publisher I've ever seen in my life, ever, ever. It's ridiculous. And it's not a secret in the business, how he's been mismanaged his whole career. And when I was working on my book, Showtime, I kept asking her to, I want to talk to Cream. I want to talk to Cream. And she would always be like, no, no, what kind of money you're offering?

No, no, the whole thing. I went to the basketball Hall of Fame induction ceremonies the year Jamal Wilkes, a former Laker was getting inducted because I had arraigned some time with Jamal. And I knew Kareem was going to be there. And I texted this woman, his publicist, whose name I won't use. And I said, hey, I'm here just in case. And she wrote back and she goes, she goes, oh, I have amazing news for you. Can we meet? And I was like, yeah, this is great.

He's going to talk to me. This is amazing. And she goes, all right, Jeff, amazing news. Kareem wants to partner with Sports Illustrated and do a roving display of his memorabilia. So like Sports Illustrate could sponsor it and we could have a truck and we could go around the country. And Kareem, I had not worked for Sports Illustrate for 10 years. muscle. Then it was your 1999 thing where you slander

Maui Long, allegedly. Exactly. His other writer. It's insane. And this woman, Kareem is one of the smartest, most impressive. Oh, he's so fucking smart, dude. And he's been so mishandled.

I just think he's been so mishandled. He should be an ambassador for athletes. He's the most intelligent voice out there. Oh, I love his writing. I love his writing. Like usually when somebody weighs in, including myself on like a social issue. I'm like, shut the fuck up.

But when Kareem, when somebody writes a long, like, you know, like the length of Kyler Murray's agent's note today. You know, an op-ed. I don't want to say that all the time. I'm a little harsh because a lot of my peers have worked on social justice issue.

But I'm just saying nobody holds a candle to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Not what he lived through, not the eloquence with which he speaks on the topics, not the way he's thoughtful. Like, he is just, the gold standard intellectually as a pro athlete to me. Now the other side of that is what you describe in the book,

which is that like he's prickly. And I don't blame him. Like I was hurt for him hearing about, you know, a kid in New York grew up with trust issues because of racism, go figure, and his height and kind of like just the way people would look at him and that sort of thing.

Like his high school coach at Power Memorial was like the one white guy he confided it. It was like his, you know, it was like another family member and the guy at the half of like one of the bigger games of the season tries to challenge him and motivate him by calling him the N word. Yeah. I mean like, and that's the context. And when he gets to UCLA and doesn't want to talk to people necessarily because they don't give a fuck about him the man. They care about him the basketball player. People are throwing their hands up like, I don't get this uppity kid.

Like that's the context with which a lot of these athletes grew up and especially like somebody like Kareem who was. such an intellectual kind of outlier. I totally get it. And I met him at the Espies one year. And this is my Kareem story. It's like my dad knew Kareem playing in L.A. and told me like he was a great guy. And so that's kind of my context like walking up to Kareem.

And I did not know about like the Kareem kind of like thing. You know, I'm living under a rock. I hadn't read one of your books yet. And I just was like, I said Mr. Abdul-Jvore or something. I don't know what you said. You like to shorten names. You sure you didn't go, Ream?

Ream. No, I didn't say Ream. Big fan. Yeah. This is the Matthew McConaughey rule. I called him Matt. Like first second, he came on the pod and he corrected me. It's like a pick six, the first drive of a football game.

Ended up being just a fine interview. But I stopped Mr. Abdul-Jabbar walking out, and I felt like this wasn't a bad area to do it. Like, we were kind of walking the same direction. I was like, hey, I'm a big fan of you, like as a guy, man. and I just want to say I appreciate it. And, you know, I was wondering if I could get a picture. I wouldn't do this very often. And he kind of just looked at me and I was like, yep.

I was like, my bad. Like, I'm a pro athlete. Like, I should know. And, like, and he said, what's your name? And I said, Chris Long. And when it clicked that I was Howie's son, his whole demeanor changed. He was so warm.

and so kind and so awesome and nice and stopped to talk to me for five minutes. Everything's about trust with that guy. And I don't blame him one bit. Did you get the photo? I got the photo and I look fucking terrified. There's two pictures that I have that I will not share with very famous people. One's with Sandra Bullock, my childhood crush. And I looked mortified.

And then that one with Kareem Abdul Javar. Those are both in the private, it's a private, uh, private collection. but just such an interesting character, if I was writing, I would be nervous about him. But you seem to, like, because you've told the truth the whole time about the whole deal. Well, I also think the thing is, like, like, as a journalist, and I've really come to, I'm racist as I've gotten older. It's very easy for all of us to be like, oh, that guy, he sets a dick, right? Oh, that guy's such a dick. Why are you such a dick?

But the really intro, like, early on in my career, I wrote the story about John Rock or racist baseball player. That was kind of my big sports illustrated story. I read that one. The thing that sucks about it in hindsight is, to me, he was just a dick racist. And what's really interesting is how does he, how did he become a dick, right? Like, how does someone become the person he is? And Kareem, like we just talked about, like, yeah, he's standoffish and he's hiding at a bathroom stall when they would fly in the airports and reading a book in the stall. So no one approaches him.

Yeah. That's the surface level. Wow, what a jerk. He's standoffice. He's telling kids he won't sign autographs. Well, how did he become that way? And then you look at his childhood and you look at the coach, you use the N-word on him, and you look at these things. And that's really the joy of journalism is finding out these things.

And as you become older and you do this more often, that's the stuff I really, I just love. And I feel like the brighter the athlete, the more resentment that athlete has towards people that just want to oversimplify who that person is. Of course. Of course. Or they don't care. One or the other. They just don't care. Or they resent it. Or it irks the fuck out of them, which I think it did with Kareem. And then on the other side of the thing, you've got you've got magic who's just like, like what you see is what you get. Like this story, there's two stories in your book that I loved and I hope they make the show and maybe you can tell me, but like the fish incident with Jack Kent Cook or Jack, what kind of fish was this?

Sandabs. Sandabs, which I didn't even, have you ever heard of a sand dab? No. Never did either. It's like a 70s rich Hollywood guy fish. But I guess magic came into town, right? And what? He was serving him sandabs and what happened?

It was negotiations and Magic comes and they're, having dinner at the forum or lunch. And Jack Kent Cook, who's the owner of the Redskins also, the then Redskins and also the Lakers and the LA Kings at that point, serves sandabs. He's very excited to serve sandabs. And, you know, Magic is like this 20-year-old kid from Michigan, you know, hasn't seen that much, not coming from a lot of money. And he's poking at the fish and just looking at the fish and's lifting it up.

And he's like, is there any way I can just get like a cheeseburger? and uh... totally the best and Jack Kent Cook is horrified absolutely horrified but he does get him a cheeseburger

and somebody said like Magic you're the only person that could like big time Jack can't cook intentionally or unintentionally and then the story that made you just really like love a young Magic Johnson

was him walking into the bus household for the first time and telling Jeannie Bus that he was going to finish his career with the Pistons like he's not even thinking about like there's no tact is there's no like I'm maneuvering or manipulating towards a goal like he's just Magic Johnson. He just is happy to be there and he's going to tell you the truth is what he seemed like and juxtapose with a guy who became his mentor and Kareem like two totally different people.

Actually my favorite moment from the entire book is one of the early, I think the first time Magic came to L.A. And he's driving and he has, he's someone driving him and he asks the car to stop. He's a guy from Michigan right. and he opens a car door and he gets out. And he sees orange is growing on trees. And he's like, he picks one. And he's like, you guys grow fruit on trees. That is insane.

I love that. And I got to say, having, I live, I moved to California seven years ago. Yeah. And I still take a walk and I still see oranges growing on trees. And then when I think of that all the time, and I pick oranges off of trees. Like, I'm like, this is amazing. Like, they grow oranges on trees. And I, I feel like that represented.

him coming to Michigan, come in L.A., and also, honest to God, with the show, like a lot of these guys, a lot of these guys have had their, like, picking an orange off of a tree moment where it's like, holy crap, this is actually happening for me. Magic, Kareem, the players. I was really interested in kind of like the architects of this whole thing, and I had no idea about, this is Jack McKinney, right?

Oh, yeah. And you start the book with that. And it was old news for people that have read the book, but just catching up on the book, getting ready to watch the series and everything, like I thought it was powerful and it was palpable like maybe your most somber interview oh yeah leading up to this project so I still have a letter hanging in my office framed that I got from Jack McKinney who died a couple years ago saying how much he enjoyed the book

and blah blah blah blah I so basically most people I don't think I didn't know this going into the book magic gets drafted and the coach of the Lakers is a newly hired coach named Jack McKinney and Jack McKinney had been an assistant in Portland to Jack Ramsey, and they won the NBA championship. That was with Bill Walton. And he's hired, and he's like, you guys are moving too slow. This team is too slow.

We have this young point guard. We have Norm Nixon playing aside, and we have Jamal Wilkes. We need to run. So when you think about Showtime, the fast break offense and Pat Riley, the birth of that was really Jack McKinney. And this is how great,

this is crazy the time period of it all. Jack McKinney, first of all, has one assistant coach, Paul West said, who he brought with him from Philadelphia. Because Jack McKinney had been the coach at St. Joe's, and Paul Wessett had been the coach at LaSalle. So that's how they knew each other.

And one day early in the season, I think 14 or 13 games in, they have an off day. And Paul Wessett says, why don't we go play tennis? Let's meet and play tennis. Okay. Jack McKinney gets on his bike, doesn't wear a helmet, is riding to his assistant coach's house to play tennis, stops short, flips over the handlebars, and lands on his head. He's the head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. He's brought to the hospital as a John Debt.

nobody knows who he is. And he's in the hospital. Basically, he has these really, you know, he has this major brain injury, and he can't coach that to the rest of the season. And Paul West said takes over. That's how Pat Riley becomes an assistant coach, because he was in the broadcast booth with Chick-Hern.

He becomes an assistant coach. The Lakers win the NBA championship with Paul Westhead. The presumption is Jack McKinney will come back. He's never brought back. And the rest is history. And the thing that, like, I love Jack McKinney, and I love his family and I still keep in touch with them

and they're just great. And there's a really sad scene. McKinney got another coaching job, two other coaching jobs with the Pacers and then the Kings. And a couple of times he'd have these moments where he wasn't,

he was never 100% recovered where he would either forget players' names or someone told me with the Kings, they put their names in tape on the front of their shorts so he'd remember their names. It was this race at the end of working

in his sporting goods is a sporting goods for most of his career. This is a lovely, man. And when I interviewed him, his memory was not very good. And it was really hard and sad. And I had this folder with me of clips about him that I put in front of him to show him. And I remember one point, I was like, do you remember Spencer Haywood? And he was like, did I coach him? And I was like, yeah, you did. And it was just sad, but a lovely man. Like, love to. Yeah. But I mean, like,

you know, the ultimate. And it's not like one of those sad for the franchise, what might have been, because everything worked out. But, you know, with his background, I mean, even the St. Joe's firing, he seemed kind of like just a guy with bad luck. Yeah, and pride and decency and kindness. And a good person. Like legitimately. And the funny thing is speaking of maybe not kind of a 180, the coach they originally hired before him was Jerry Tarkhanian from UNLV,

which is insane. And he took the job and he was going to be the highest paid coach in the NBA. And right after he accepted the job, his agent was found dead in a trunk. And then Tarkanian decided in the midst of the upheaval in the tragedy. This was a very close friend. He would stay at UNLV. So he stayed at UNLV. But Sarkhanian almost became the coach of Lakers. That would not have been a good marriage. And you can't speculate, I mean, professionally, but I can. It sounds like Tark's buddy got hit

by the mob. Correct. It does. I can speculate. I agree with you. But I mean, like, just crazy. This stuff is a real life kind of turn of events. And all this happens around a franchise changing hands and at that time like it's not the lakers it's not the same franchise you had jack kank cook who as i mentioned earlier like read like a fucking just a an asshole and a cowboy in a lot of ways and you know and then enter jerry bus and kind of like in all this they decide to draft magic johnson right so what happens there and as makin alluded to how close was it Sydney montrieff and the proposition even of a six foot nine point guard will that work it's a really fascinating. So, Sidney Monkrie, first of all, was a really, really good player and had a

great NBA career. I mean, if you look him up, he's no joke. He was an all-star and he was a great player. And Jerry West really wanted to take Sidney Moncrief because he thought we already have a point guard, Norm Nixon, who's really good, and he was really good. Jerry West's concern was that Madge Johnson was a high dribbler. He was a six-foot nine ball, and how is this going to work with all these little point guards? And there was a fight. Who are we going to take? Who are we going to take? Jerry Buss, who was about to buy the team, really had to say over who they were going to draft. And you just saw this guy and saw the smile and the pizzazz and the Sports Illustrated cover. He was just coming off beating Larry Bird in Indiana State for the NCAA title.

He was a national name. And he was very insistent that this is guy. And the funny thing is, if they drafted Sidney Moncrief, they still would have been freaking really good and could have on a major run. They really could have. Like Moncrief, Norm Nixon, as your back court with Kareem as your center and Jamal Wilkes at Small Forward is a really good basketball team. It's just incredible. And then, you know, like Jerry Well, who's made so many great moves, wanted option B, and option A, obviously, the rest is history.

Jerry West seems to be cast very well. I'm wondering if the Jerry West folklore of him not watching the games is true. Is that that's a real thing? Yeah, there are two guys I've covered, him and Billy Bean with the Oakland A's who struggled to watch their team play, and they would walk around the stadium or drive around. It's not like every time.

Like there were times they watched it. but they really, I don't know if you're like this, Chris, actually, when you play it. Like, a lot of guys, I think, are the sting of a loss is much harder, is much lower than the high of a win is high. I can identify with that. And I think that's Jerry West. Like, the sting of a loss was much greater than the euphoria. And he's one of those guys as soon as you win, it's like, well, what's next? What's next?

What's next? That was actually, I wrote a biography of Walter Payton. And I always think of that. like Walter Payton wins the Super Bowl, and he's not happy at all. He's actually devastated. And everyone's like, so how do you feel? You know, like, I think this is something we never talk about in sports, right? How do you feel?

How do you feel? You just reach your goal. You just reach your goal. And it's like, I don't know, you know, how am I supposed to feel? You know, and I think that's a thing. Isn't that a thing? I think it depends on where and when in your career you achieve success. I mean, like, I think there is an inherent, like, dissatisfaction with, hey, the result

in any great athletes. like you have to you can't be satisfied so I think that probably for Jerry West it was probably exhausting to be around him at times because he didn't seem happy with the results when things were going well um but I think that's probably part of what makes him or Walter Payton great or any of those guys so I think it's a miss a mixed bag I think there's also like you get there and you do it and you don't take it in and then a year or two later you wake up and you realize it's gone like if you don't truly soak it in because it happens so fast. Wait, I just want to say something.

I've never said this to an athlete, and I'm fascinated by this. I think one of the great mistakes athletes I've covered make is when they say, they'll be like, can you enjoy this now? And they'll say, well, I'll enjoy it when I retire. Like, I'll enjoy it when I look back. That's bullshit. And I'm always like, you need to enjoy the moment because he seems to still fleeting. I'm enjoying it.

I'm enjoying it. Where you played, where I played for a long time, I say this all the time on this pod, then you really enjoy the thing. Those are kind of the characters. We left out Pat Riley talking about, I mean, like, everybody's heard the clips about Pat Riley by now or seeing the excerpts of him making coaches, assistant coaches by Suburbanes that were different colors and shit like that. We had your guy Chris Herring on to talk about Blood in the Garden.

And just some of those Pat Riley's stories were incredible. How do you think he's going to be portrayed? And is he going to like his portrayal? I think very much, actually. I do. I do. He, first of all, Eugene Brody's great, obviously. and it's a say, I mean, it's interesting because he was a very, he was one of those guys who was, like, very ambitious.

Yeah. And especially once it got going, he was very ambitious. And I do think it's fair to say that he was, when he was the assistant coach to Paul Westhead, you know, he knew he knew he knew more about basketball than Paul West said. Like, he just knew he was a better coach. Did he get Paul Westhead fired in a sense because he was magic guy? No, magic got him. Yeah, but like magic and. And was there no, there was no, like, hey, Pat Riley feeding magic, like gassing him up to get him fired?

I wouldn't, I would say no, not really. But I would say that Pat Riley knew he was a better coach and Paul West said. And Pat Riley was correct. So it's hard to. Yeah, it's hard to argue. I wouldn't say he was a super loyal soldier. I wouldn't say he was undermining him. But he knew he was this ambitious.

He knew he would be really good at this. And he freaking was really good at this. He's really good at this. Great at it. Is there somebody that's not going to like their portrayal if you had to guess? I mean, so the one thing about this show that I've had a really good relation with Jeannie Bus through the years. And she, I was an adjunct professor to school down here called Chapman.

Twice, Jeannie Bus drove to Orange County to speak to my class. Like for no, we have like 20 students in the class. The last time came with tickets to give to the students as like giveaways for like we do content. Like one of my favorite people of all time. And I know she's not. feeling this like she's definitely worried about it and she's worried how her dad is going to be portrayed i'm certain yeah which i understand there's a reality to this which is jerry bus was kind of a dog with

women i mean it's just it's just a fact he also was a genius and a basketball genius and i think this the show leans heavy on the basketball genius but it doesn't ignore his role with women um and i think she'll see that and be a little there are moments she'll be upset by that you know yeah I think probably, which I get it. But it's a very, very fair portrayal, like a very fair portrayal. Well, it's funny. In your book, like, you know, you can see where it's going. This guy's an absolute, like, just party animal.

And he's starting to fit the bill of, like, a million other owners that I've. But then, like, it takes a turn for the really type A and interesting, like, where he goes and he goes to, I think, Wyoming or something. And he's, like, a 4-0 student. He never gets a questioning correct for, like, two years. He's so type A and driven. motivated and he's bored with uniformity. Like he grows into this very interesting character.

So I'm looking forward to seeing how they kind of walk that line with the show. And the modern NBA, the NBA you see today is really his vision. I'm not just saying that. Like he shows up. You go to a basketball game to watch basketball. That's what's crazy is the 1980 NBA finals was showing on tape delay. It was magic, Kareem versus Dr. J. And it's insane.

It's fucking. Yeah, it's crazy. And so he was the one who was. brought in the Laker girls. He's the one who brought in, you know, the Pipe to Music. He's the one who brought in the forum club, which was basically Studio 54 inside the forum. He gave celebrities courtside tickets. Like he was the vision of what you see today. His vision was it. All right. Well, we had a Jerry West question. We're going to do in a little bit like the worst logos in pro sports. Don't worry. Delaware is safe.

But the, yeah, but the logo, the logo of the, uh, the logo of the, uh, the, uh, the the NBA is Jerry West, right? So a year ago we talked about, and I'm asking because when Kobe passed, your book came out, Three Ring Circus, one that I've also enjoyed. And there was a lot of talk about making Kobe the logo,

making other players the logo. Like, where do you land on Jerry West being the logo? I love Jerry West's logo. You don't think change it at all. I think it's a really cool looking logo. Yeah. I do.

I think if you were to change it, you don't much respect to Kobe and the legacy of Kobe. I think it would have to be Jordan. Yes. Right. No question. And so here's a guy who wrote a book about Kobe.

And I wonder, you know, with the passing of Kobe, like you've talked about this before. You've kind of talked about the pressures of trying to figure out when to release that book. Because he died like right when the book was supposed to come out basically, right? Around then. A couple of months, a couple of months. A couple of months. Which is you're just like, what's your first reaction? Your first reaction is obviously sadness.

but like from a business standpoint, are you thinking, hey, delay this thing? I can't do this right now. Did anybody prominent lean on you to tell you like, don't do this, man? Like, were you, like, did anybody try to intimidate you into like, hey, hold this book? No, but there was talk with the publisher. So the one thing I wasn't going to do was move it up. Yeah. Like I wasn't going to run.

I wasn't going to go out of my way to take advantage of someone's death. Right. To sell books. You know, like, so that was a big. No, there was some talk about pushing it. It came out, actually, it came out eight months after he died, so there was a gap, actually. I just, nobody was like, don't do it. The thing I was terrified about, like, terrified about was the blowback.

When I wrote the Walter Payton book, it was one of the worst experiences in my life. The book came out. He'd been dead for several years, but, like, there was an excerpt that came out in Sports Illustrated about three weeks before the book was coming out. And it was all about the end of his life, which was a lot of depression, infidelity, etc. He just had a really dark end of his life. And that came out before the book came out, and I just got destroyed, like destroyed, destroyed.

Like I was supposed to go to Chicago and my publishing company would not send me to Chicago because they were afraid that someone would throw a brick in my head. They probably would. That's a place, yeah, they don't fuck around about their wall. And the book, when the book came out, I actually got a lot of apollett. Like there was a book burning on a radio station. They did a book burning. The book comes out, finally comes out, and I got just a ton of apologies. I really did.

Like, oh, you know, I read the book. It's not where we thought it was going to be. because it really wasn't homage to Walter Payton. So I was terrified of having that part two with this. Because the book isn't kind of Kobe. It's not a deliberate, I mean, you read it. It's not a slam job of Kobe, but it's an honest look at Kobe. A young Kobe.

Yeah, a young Kobe. It included Colorado and the whole alleged sexual assault situation. And I was really nervous about it, like really nervous about it. And it ended up being almost nothing, probably at most 10 negative comments on Twitter, which, as we've discussed. in private is nonsense anyway. Yeah, well, people don't, it's like, it's like out of context. It's like, hey, I've been working on this book for a long time.

Like Simpleton sees a book come out and they're like, oh, this is opportunistic. Right. You know, it's like, man, I've been fucking grinding on this. Like, what am I supposed to do? Set it on fire like the guy in Chicago? By the way, how do you burn a book on the radio? Like, that doesn't listen well. I did it on YouTube.

Then actually it's kind of tight. It's hard doing what you've done. You've done the Barry Bond's biography. And from what I understand, he didn't want it out, obviously, because no biography about Barry Bond is going to be positive, right? He was never a jerk about it. Okay. And I did go up to him in the, I covered him for a long time at Sports Illustrated.

And he was horrible to cover. He's a worst athlete I've ever had to cover my life, like with no close second. Like the worst. Pick the worst athlete you've ever been around, multiply it by seven. Tennis is making, high school tennis making. You know, I have, I have a horror stories. about those high school dentists. I'm still bitter about you blowing me off after that.

Bonds was the worst, but I did go up to him. It was actually funny. I went up to him at his locker. And I was like, hey, Barry, I just wanted to let you know. I'm doing this book. I'd written him a letter already or something. I was aging. And I just want to give you a chance if you want to talk.

And he sticks out his hand and he goes, you know what, dude, I appreciate you coming up to me, but I'm going to pass. I said, all right, that's cool. And he's walking away. And I said, just so you know, I interviewed this. person and that person. And I even talked to you, I forgot her name, but your Cub Scout, Denmother. And he goes, dude, I was never even in the Cub Scouts.

And he walks away. I literally have a picture of Barry Bond's in the Cub Scouts at his Cub Scout like Denver. That was the weirdness of that guy. Like, for the whole club outs to hear, dude, I was never even in the Cub Scouts. I know you were in the Cub Scouts. I literally know you were in the Cub Scouts. Why?

And wait. I was going to say, this is how crazy Bonz was. There was another story where I interviewed a guy, Jose Radelis, who pitched with him in Arizona State. And I went up to Bonds. That same thing. I was like, I was like, talk to this person, and I talked to Jose Radelis. And he goes, I don't know who that is. You just keep.

This is a good show. You continuing to approach Barry Bonds. Yeah, right. I'm telling you he's never heard of what you speak of. He goes, I don't know who that is. I went back, I called Jose Radillas, and I go, Barry doesn't say, that says he doesn't know who you are. He goes, doesn't know who I am.

The guy was in my fucking wedding. Does he think that like pleading the fifth to a writer is like effectively protection? I think he enjoys making our lives miserable or did. I really do. It was a sport to him. So you write that book. He doesn't, like, I didn't even know this was a term. Unauthorized biography.

Is that like a dirty word? in a way, I mean, I don't view it that way, but like, it's been true. What is an unauthorized biography? It means I decide I'm going to write a biography of someone, and I always go up to them, and I try to interview them. And I just view it, it kind of, it's no different than writing a biography of Donald Trump or Bill Clinton or whoever, like figures who you consider hugely important in my world of sports.

Like I wrote a Brett Farr biography is a perfect example. I, which is crazy because I got Brett Farr's mother, Brett Farr's sister, two of Brett Farr's brothers, cousins, uncles, blah, blah, blah, but I didn't get Brett Favre. Yeah. He didn't talk. Everyone else in his family took. His mom sent me home with scrapbooks. Yeah.

But he didn't talk. That's an unauthorized biography. And it's not a slam job. I think unauthorized comes with like you're trying to slams one. Right. I'm not trying to tell the story of a historic figure in the area I cover. It's not a co-signed biography by the subject. It's not making money.

It's like I'm staying out of it. Like, um, Bo, you got a bow biography. Like, I would imagine Bo's not an easy guy to track down. I think we've taught. So I mean, Bo, I, true story. Well, the books coming out in October. I sent him early on a couple of my books and a letter.

My name is Jeff Perlman. I grew up a huge admirer of yours. I love for your autobiography. I would love to write this. I feel like you deserve, and this is a 100% motivation. People deserve to know about this story, about who you were and your impact on sports,

blah, blah, blah, whatever I sent a letter. And I'm on the phone one day with my mom a couple weeks after, and I get this call my cell phone, caller ID blocked. And I'm like, I bet this is Bo Jackson, because I just sent the letter maybe a week early. I pick up the phone and it's like, Mr. Pearlman, and I recognize the voice immediately. He's like, this is Bo Jackson.

And I'm like, hey, Bo. And the thing is, we talked for 40 minutes. And he was lovely. But he's like, I don't have a problem you were writing this book, but I'm not going to help you with it. And I was like, all right, man. He said, he actually said to me, I always promised Jeremy Schap,

because he did his autobiography with Dick Schap, Jeremy's dad. And he said, I always promised Jeremy Shapp, if I was going to do a book, I would do with Jerry. I promised his dad. If I was ever going to do a book,

another book he would be with Jeremy. And everything is I'm very good friends of Jeremy. He was one of my favorite people in media. And I told him about it, and he was like, I don't know. So, um, so I was like, I've heard of Bo Jackson.

You know, what? Who's that? Right. So, um, you know, I go about when people ask, I say I talk to Bo. And I don't say I interviewed him, but I say I talked to Bo.

He said he's fine. He's fine. He's not going to help me, but he's fine with me writing it. And that's it. And you go about your way and you do it. That's interesting because there's some people who are more like, hey, I'm just not going to help you. It's not a big deal, but I'm not going to help you. And there's some people who are like, I'd rather you're not write this at all.

Like, I don't know the guy in my wedding. I wasn't a Cove Scout. There's like a range of like challenges and hurdles when it comes to, you know. And I get it. Like I totally 1 million percent. You're Bo Jackson. You don't know me. You can Google me and you can see my books, but you don't know me.

And it's like, wait, so you're going to do a book about me. Yes. Do I get any say in it? No. Do I get any money off of it? No. So what's my motivation? And I always say, like, if you're Bo Jackson, I'm not saying you should talk to me or not.

But like, you deserve to have a definitive biography about you. Like your career is that substantial and your life is that substantial. And like, I just view him as a historic figure in the same way someone to view Lyndon Johnson as a historic figure and worth writing and worth crime. And that's how we remember things. And I just take that job very seriously. Did you know LBJ had a huge... No, he knows this.

He reads. He had a huge unit. He called it Jumbo. We just read this last week. Are you into presidential biographies? Well, Robert Carrer wrote an amazing Lyndon Johnson biography. I freaking read it and loved it. I don't remember that he had a big kid.

He left his unit out. Jeff, we have an ACE production team here at Greenlight. And while we don't really know what the verb option means, we would like to option the Bo Jackson story. Should you agree, we've got 60-year-old Howie Long to play 30-year-old Howie-Long. That's as far as we've gotten. And if you would like to agree right here, we can... 60-year-old Howie-Long could play 30-year-old.

Yeah, you could. We can discuss terms. Neck up. I want the Steve Gleeson, Jersey, and maybe the basketball. There we go. Deal. No, I can't give you the Steve Gleason, dirty. All right, so a couple grab bags before we get you out of here.

I was listening to Rissillo and Simmons a while back when you did talk about Three Ring Circus, and I came on your pod, and we were talking about, like, kind of media and athlete. I don't know. How would you frame the topic of that pod? Like courtesy or relationship practices between media and athletes. So the J.R. Rider story made me realize, and you told the story, you told it great on the Risslo pod, but basically you had to track him down. And so you go to his door. And we never talked about the knocking on the door strategy, but you probably have had to do that a lot through your career.

And I would have reacted exactly how J.R. Ryder reacted. I would have said, dude, what the fuck are you doing? You don't just knock on people's doors. Are you kidding me? And then I would have said, call me later if I thought you were cool and you're actually a good writer, which is exactly how it played out with J.R. Ryder. So tip of the cap to J.R. Rider. And then talk to me about like, how do you decide, hey, I got to go knock on this guy's

door not call somebody and deal with that bullshit. All right. So number one, I have a weird love of knocking on doors. It's weird because I love, hate it. I always compare it to being on a flight with really bad turbulence.

And you're like, this will probably work out. Like, this will probably work out. And I would say in my career, I'm probably about 10 for 10 on door knocks. Really? Like I have a very high success rate.

It's only 10. Yeah, I haven't done a million because it's not every day you need to knock on a door. What's your knock style? but actually that was a very general two tap two this was a big yeah we talked about this a year ago yeah you're a three

I'm a three knock guy yeah knock knock I mean three I don't think three is wrong maybe I would even help all I'm saying is knock knock sounds like somebody's come in with a silencer you know what I mean like knock knock knock is like sketchy you might want to go three they don't call the knock knock knock joke okay whatever pal that's fair so so so so 10 of them J.R. rider a lot of doors

His reaction was kind of like, hey, man, friendly enough, but fuck no. First, a kid answered the door. And I'm like, oh, I had a book with me. I had a copy of my US about book. You always have to have something with you, right? Guys, a Mormon or tribaling. Traveling. You don't want to wear a white shirt with a black tie and a name tag.

This is, I'm a biographer. Wrote this book about God, allegedly. The kid is a door, little kid. And I'm like, hey, is J.R. here? and he closed his door, a woman comes up. Hey, I'm looking for JR Rider. My name's Jeff Ferromer, I'm a second. And I hear these two people yelling behind the door.

Like, who's the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, no. And J.R. Rider comes out. And it's clearly J.R. Rider. And the thing is, I didn't, I had an address for him. I just didn't have a phone number for him. And he kind of went ghost on people. Like, he wasn't easy to find.

So, because these days, I like texting someone first. It's just easy and just a little wimpy, but it actually works. I'm knocking on your door today. Not today. I'm knocking on your door. Right, right, right. Be ready, motherfucker. Be there in 10.

So, I knock on the, oh, so J.R. Ryder comes. And he's like, it's J.R. Rider, you know, he's a big guy

and he's kind of puffed out. He's like, who are you? And I'm like, hey, my name's Jeff Peroman. I'm working on a book about the Lakers,

blah, he goes, nah, man, nah, no, no, no, wait, what?

You fucking come, wait, you fucking come to my, front door. Are you fucking kidding me? Also, I should mention it was like 9.30 in the morning. It was 9.30. Yeah, dude. I don't know what I was thinking there. It was like 9.30 a.m. He's like, bro. No, man. No. And he opens a door. He's coming out. He's like, man, no. And I'm like, he's like, what's that book you got? I think it was, what's that book you got?

Oh, it's a book I wrote about the USFL. Is that the Trump League? I'm like, yeah. He's like, dude, you can't just show up. What? What are you working on? I'm like, oh, I'm writing a book about the Shaq Kobe Lakers. He's like, oh, man, that's a good subject. You just show up, though? That's a good subject, though, man. And we end up talking.

I love J.R. Ryder from this conversation alone. The one you told about is sweat suits. I love him. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's about, I just want to say, I had, just because it's real quick, the subject of doorknock. A few years ago, I did an article for Bleach Report when they used to be, used to run journalism about an NBA player. That was a dig, but sorry.

But it's true. There was a basketball player for the pelicans named Bryce DeJon Drew, who was shot to death in Dallas. And he was shot, it's a crazy, crazy story, but he basically, he thought he was entering his girlfriend's apartment, and he was one floor below. And he's the girlfriend he thought had locked him out. And he's slamming on the door.

And he gets in the, right, he breaks in the front door. And then there's another door that's locked and he's slamming on the door. And he thinks it's his girlfriend's apartment, but it's not his girlfriend's apartment. And the guy behind the door has a gun and shot him to death. It's a crazy story. I tracked down the guy who shot him. But again, I didn't have a phone number. I just had an address.

And I'm knocking on his door to talk to him. And this is literally a guy who shot someone to death through a door. And before I did that, I did text my wife. And I was like, just so you know, this is exactly where I am, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that guy ended up talking to him. dark comment, but he didn't shoot somebody for knocking, to be fair. So, oh, no, no, no. Was he pleasant enough when you, I mean, like, is that the scariest door knocked you've ever had?

Easily, easily, easily. And I left a book. I left my Brett Farber book. Oh, he didn't answer. First of all, I had to break into his apartment complex, like sneak in through stuff. Okay. Oh, dude. Not breaking.

Jeff. It's like, well, I had to repel into his living room. Break in and strong. I just mean, like, you wait for the, hard to go through. You wait for coming over. And this is what you do, like sometimes an investigative work. Like you actually, you have to knock on doors. That is so good and sketching. But is it creepy? Are you looking at me now? Like I'm some creeper. No, no, no, no. You're a friend. And we did a whole podcast on this. So I would be honest with you. That's the one thing me and Jeff don't see eye to eye on.

If Jeff knocks on my door, how do you think I answer? Country clubs down that way. Yeah, exactly. Motherfuckers just roll up thinking I'm the country club. I'm not the country club. It was a private residence. No, I'm writing a book on the St. Louis Rams in 2011. It's a fucking children's book about not giving up, Jeff. Or maybe giving up. Or giving up. And some of the, you know, some draws to that too.

I was so interesting you going to see Phil Jackson. Where did you see Phil Jackson? Because Phil Jackson had a house on Flathead Lake in Montana. We are on Flathead Lake in Montana. Steve Kerr, I met him on Flathead Lake. and then Frank Brickowski, who you talked to as well, who I talked to yesterday on the phone. He is a dear friend of my dad's,

and for better or for worse, and they're all at Flathead Lake. So did you go to see Phil at Flathead or somewhere else? It was a town nearby, but then he gave me a tour of Flathead. And I have to say, that was Jeannie Buss, who again, my favorite owner in any sports, I didn't know how to get in touch with Phil Jackson,

working on that book. And I emailed her asking if she had any advice, and she reached out for me. And I flew out to Montana. He said he would give me, okay, come out to Montana. And I met him at a coffee shop. And he shows up,

and I thought it was going to be an hour. If I got an hour with Phil Jackson, great. End up being like, you won, you made the $100,000 bid to spend a day with Phil Jackson and he won the contest. He's basically driving me around.

He's like, let's get lunch. We get lunch. He's showing me the sights. You want to get dinner later? Why don't you come back to my house? Well, come back to my house. There's like a cat at his house climbing on top of me.

like it was wonderful. What a cool day. And Montana's beautiful. What time of year was that? Gorgeous. It was summer. Perfect. You know,

like all this stuff. I'm so excited to see winning time. And, you know, I'm loving reading showtime. And like, it seems so simple reading it. And you mentioned the Mets earlier.

Like, as a parting shot here, anybody that's listening that can make a movie, can we do the Mets movie? I don't know why that wouldn't work. Like, is like,

I know it fell through, but why wouldn't the 86 Mets work as a series? Like, why wouldn't it? Play devil's advocate. Yeah, no. I think back in the day when all this was going on, the Mets have always had a weird relationship with that 86 team.

I think they viewed them in large ways as an embarrassment and a little bit of a failure, even they won that World Series because the drug abuse, guys like Dykstra, Lenny Dykeshire are a little difficult. You know, there are different characters. And I think for a long time, the Mets, shamefully actually, kept their distance from those players in that team. Right. I think that's changed with new ownership and sort of a turnover over the years.

And I think I agree with you. And not even just because I wrote the book. Forget the book. Like that team was just magical and one of a kind. And they drank and they partied and they went out and they were part of the city. And New York at that time was this grimy and disgusting. And Times Square was like Hooker and Coke Central. And yeah, I agree with you.

100%. Yeah, do that one. We're as a parting question, we're talking to you from Central Virginia. take you back 23 years. Do you recall the top three athletes you ranked from the state of Virginia if you indeed had the back half of the alphabet as you say in the SIPs?

Shit. Virginia. Was Ralph Sampson? Number eight on your list. I see Overlook player, by the way. I don't recall. Arthur Ash 1. Yeah.

So would be. Probably still would be. Lawrence Taylor 2. Bruce Smith's got to be up there. Four. Okay. AI's got to be up there. Not in 99. But he wasn't at that point.

Oh, in 99, yeah. Number three, didn't we have a secretariat? No shit. Yeah. They put a horse? Well, Jeff, you're talking to them. Why a horse, Jeff? This is a lot.

Never mind. Jeff's not leaving. Wait, right now, I think it's got to be Iverson, right? Yeah, probably so, yeah. Was Big O? Is Oscar Robertson from Virginia? Not to my knowledge. Petersburg?

Don't we have an NBA legend from Petersburg? I feel like there's a sneaky M. Moses Malone is from Moses would be top 10. Yep, David Robinson top 10. Oh, but Secretariat at three. I think, wait, I would say at that time, Sports Illustrated was definitely,

it was a stiff place to work in many ways, and there were many editors who were kind of old school horse racing, Princeton. I guarantee you, it was not my idea to put secretary at number three from Virginia. I mean, I didn't even know if that horse was from Virginia. Who knew? thinks that way. No one.

Not even Jeff Perlman. All right, that's perfect. Jeff Perlman, of course, you could check him out at two writers, Sling and Yang, which I learned is conversation, takes conversation. And you're obviously going to see winning time coming up. What's the date on that? The 6th, 6th of March. I'm hyped.

Are you going to be a watch party or something? I'm going to the premiere with my kids in two days. Oh, so cool. Wait, not joking. I thought it was going to be late for this podcast, because I had to get my a suit dry cleaned. And you know sports riders never do that. So this is, you know.

Podcasters either. Yeah. Hey, Jeff, appreciate the time, man. Really looking forward to it. And congrats on the success, man. Jeff's one of the best, man. It's really great to see you, uh, you get this show, uh, with your name on it. You deserve it, man.

Thank you both so much. I appreciate it. Great talking to you. Thanks. I started taking athletic greens because I wanted to see what all the hype was about with one delicious scoop of athletic greens you're absorbing 75 high-quality vitamins, minerals, whole-food source superfoods, probiotics, and adaptogens to help you start your day right. This special blend of ingredients supports your gut health, your nervous system, your immune

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vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athletic greens.com slash greenlight. Again, that is athletic greens.com slash greenlight to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. So speaking of novels, did you see the novel that Kyler Murray's agent wrote? I did. And Greenlight had the best tweet I've seen. Oh, yeah, the meme of, yeah.

Sorry, that happened to you, or congratulations. Like, I'm not reading that. I have not read a word of it. Coincidentally, I read that, and that's something that his agent didn't do, because he misspelled Chuses. Mm. Chose. 1.0.

Choses. Chazas. But the bottom line is it's bold. I actually think it's unwise because the court of public opinion is always like 100% on this stuff.

Player asked for his money early. The entire internet is psyched about that and always ready to fight for the player because, you know, contracts are fucked up and such and people have been broke off early before and on the surface like Kyler Murray has flashed brilliance,

but when you look at the names of the guys who have been taking care of a year early, you're batting about 40% on like the success rates, the mass going against him. And then rapidly improving is the phrase that I really stuck out other than the misspelling

of the word chooses. Rapidly improving is one I would say. What's the context? He's talking about himself? Yes. Or the team? Him, I think. Isn't he talking about himself? Oh, no, no, no, go down. I literally can't find it in this block of text. It is simply up to the Cardinals to decide if they prioritize. They're rapidly improving 24-year-old,

already two-time Pro Bowl QB, who led the organization from three wins before his arrival to 11 wins in the first playoff appearance in five years. No doubt about it, Kyler Murray is a net positive. You're happy to have him. But what we're talking about here is, like, believing in a guy for the next five to 10 years, essentially, right? Am I misreading this?

He wants a long-term contract right now. And dude, like, it's really hard to negotiate with Kyler Murray now, not knowing what he's going to be like in three, four years. I know that's the name of the game in forecasting, but people like to act like with a quarterback like this, that's automatic that he's going to stay this good. And even if he stays as good, is it good enough for you? Because late in the season, they've kind of struggled.

And he's had durability issues. And like, listen, I love watching him. I said some really bold shit about him last year. Remember the time that Lamar Jackson had the league by the balls and it was like Lamar show and you were like, this is his league. If Kyler would just eliminate a couple little mistakes a game, he could be in that conversation for a year

and kind of like have the league by the balls. And then he lost the grip. So I, yeah, he lost the grip on the league's balls. And that's sad. That makes me sad. Now to see this long letter signed with a lot. logo. I'm like, dude, I'm not into logos. I'm not into...

I listen to the audio book of this letter, actually. That's a good one. That's a good one. So you read it. Exactly. So I don't know, man. Like, what do you think, Mike? I really couldn't care less. We talk often about the soap opera that is the MBA. Like, I'll see in August. Yeah, dude, that's...

I don't care. I don't care. Yeah. But it is incredible. It's like, man, we're going to... We're going to do this, this long letter to basically all our fans and tell them what's really going on, clear the air. And it's not that it really doesn't sway me much. In fact, I'm kind of like, I just feel, I feel like I was ready to pay the guy. It's this like stepbrothers speaking of John C. Riley. I was like ready to hire John C. Riley and Will Ferrell and stepbrothers in their tuxitos. And then they farted.

This is like the fart, dude. I was ready to pay you even with the We were talking about Like shitty sports adaptations With Pearlman Yeah And John C. Riley is probably the worst baseball catcher I've ever seen in my life

Is he really bad? It's like he stands up He tries to throw it to second base And you're like holy shit What was that? That should not surprise me But I will go back and look I love what

Tell us at Greenlight What are your worst What are the worst sports action Sequences and movies So yeah, Kyler Murray wants to be paid and paid right now. Hey, we're going to do a logo draft. I alluded to that with Jeff. Somebody sent in as a mailbag.

This is essentially a mailbag pod now. So one of the first ones we got was on the heels of our, you know, like USFL discussion that we all very much enjoyed. Like maybe we rank the worst logos. Let's turn it into a fucking draft. All right, so who's got the first pick? I do. You got it?

Yeah, so Macon's going to pick first. Fax will go second, then Chris, then Taylor, and it's a snake-style draft. Which everybody knows how those work. Yep, and we're going to make four picks total, worst sports logos. With the first pick in the 2002 worst sports logos draft, Team Macon selects Oklahoma City Thunder of the NBA. Let's pull this logo up. Now, they've got the letters, OKC,

running through a basketball on some sort of shield with a bunch of different colors. You know the logo. They just did. They did just slas. But you know, it's,

I don't have any expectation for the, actually I do. Thunder. Holy shit. Yeah, dog. It's historically bad and they've only been around a short period of time.

But you know, you know what you would do if they put a lightning bolt through their shit? You'd be like, well, that's lightning. Well, you would totally be that bad.

But we can do. some sort of weather-related something. You're telling me that that logo, though, is worse in a vacuum than the Orlando Magic logo. I hate the Orlando Magic logo. It's on your board. It's on my board. It's definitely on your board. But OKC Thunder is number one for me.

I mean, Sacramento Kings are mailing it in. Well, dog, we're having a draft to you. Don't give away your whole board, bro. They're not on my board. It's a tough couple months for the Thunder. They won our worst alternate Jersey draft as well. Wow. It's not great.

It's definitely a mail-it-in thing there. Awful. Who's two? Fax, you got the two pick. With the second pick and the worst logo, 2002 draft, Team Fax selects the Chicago Bears. Wow. You guys like the Bears logo? Are you doing the thing where you do the opposite?

It's good. No, not at all. Like, it's just a C. I don't like that. This, hey, how did- I can show you a bunch of different letters around. Oh dear. Hey, I know. Like, that's a bad, that's a bad logo. Okay. No, I'm just, hey, listen, it's a bold take. We like to Chicago Bears. Why wouldn't you have some type of bear or something like that? It's like an easy, low-hanging fruit. You played for the Bears? No, the main, I did play for the bears and that bothered me. Did that end like on a, was a good, a good ending or? It wasn't. Yo, you got them now. though, Nate.

That's a, but like, bro, like, Nate, you never, you never wear that, they'd never wear that on the helmet. You'd rather that to be the, that alternate bear to be the number one. I would rather the alternate bear as well. It's a good looking bear. It's a gorgeous bear. The sea is just weird. Like, I get it in Chicago, but I don't want to give away, I don't want to give away my draft

and my strategy. But it's very similar. Are you going to spell something? It's very similar to a lot of other logos as well. from different professional sports, and I just don't like, I don't like that trend. He's doing all seas.

I feel like, that's gonna be it. He's gonna. I feel like the marketing department is taking an easy way out. Well, the marketing department, they're all dead,

the people that did that. Well, well, but it's, it's, but they did in, I guess, whoever's eyes,

they did a good enough job. It was the guys in mad men. They did a good enough job that no one wants to change it still. No, hey, listen, people like classic.

and I think that's the, you know, but hey, I respect it. You know how they have, you know, G.S.H on the, on the sleeves. George, yeah. Halas. Yeah. I thought in Detroit, WCF there for a while was, I guess it must be Wayne C. Fons when it's actually wouldn't play forward. Like Wayne Fons middle name.

That's one of the dumbest things that you, a very smart man has ever said. Thanks. Well, I saw it when he was like, Wayne Fons? Wayne Fons. I mean, it did take me, it took me like, matter of seconds to get to William Clayford, but Wayne Fons was the first place. No disrespect to Wayne Fons, and I'm certainly in the same category, but you'd have to get run over by a truck at, you know, midfield to get put on the logo.

Like, it, on TV. And according to Wiki, Wayne does not have a middle name, so. Yeah. So you guys like the Bears logo? Yes, dude. You do? The sea? Yes.

But what makes it iconic? It's just a sea. Because it's been around a long time, which might not be a good enough reason for. But if you pick the Calgary Flame C, Chris is going to, please do not pick the Calgary Flame C. I would fuck the Calgary Flame C, dude. Yo, that's fine. I would take the Calgary Flame C out to a nice, no, lobster dinner. Cut it out.

And I would take that thing home. Who's the third pick? Who's the third pick? Chris, you're up. Let me pull out my big board here. Brown's logo. Okay. It's a Rydell helmet.

That was my second pick. It's just an orange helmet. It's not even brown. It just has a... Well, it is the helmet they wear. The face mask. The face mask is brown. I know.

But it's totally... If I walked off of a spaceship, it was like, show me the logo here in Cleveland. It's hand me an orange football helmet. What's that team called? Another marketing team. The Browns.

Another marketing team that had to be high or on something to let this fly. Like, Like how like how do you present this? Again, dead marketing team. But bro, but if you're an owner of a team and you have a team and you're like, hey, make me a low make me a mascot, make me a logo and present it to me and someone brings this to you and your team name is the Browns.

What do you say to this? Well, they're not really giving you a lot to work with here. I think this is a major like, hey, fuck you guys. Like you, I would think it's a joke. You'd be like, are you guys done? Like this is the helmet. Well, that's how I felt in the marketing department when you're like, what's the team call?

It's called the Browns. I think it's amazing marketing facts. The name of the owner of that team was Paul Brown. So he named the team after himself. That's the only cool part. The guy just such a power move. That's lit. Orange helmet.

That's lit. But orange helmet. Mr. Brown, I don't know about that. Yeah, they're my first pick, dude. The Cleveland Browns. I'm sorry. Taylor, you got the fourth and fifth picks. So the fourth pick of the worst logo draft,

I select the Anaheim Ducks. That's a good pick. Pull that up real quick. The Mighty Ducks? It's a good pick. No, well, so the old Mighty Ducks logo is a big reason why this is the worst for me. Oh, wait, wait. It's not that anymore.

No, they changed it. Count the Dallas stars in that category. Easy. They're not on my big board. I'm just saying. Do you think that? They used to have it in 1994. They had an incredible logo.

Yeah, that Mighty. Do you think that movie? That Duckville, like, Mask. hockey mask with the two sticks is iconic. And you get rid of it for like a duck foot. Is that a foot? That's what it kind of looks like is a duck footprint. I wonder

if Disney like strong armed him. You think they like took that over because of the movie how popular muddy ducks got? Maybe. I've definitely read about it. At some point. Oh, I don't remember. Maybe you should fucking audio book it and you would. Taylor, hit us with your fifth pick. All right. For the fifth pick of the word

logo sports logo draft he's taken mine because I saw it go I'm selecting the New Orleans baby cakes minor league baseball team sure hey took that's pro right it's a pro yeah you know what I should have been a little clearer okay well curve boy who else well okay okay can I can I jump that okay okay all right for the fifth overall pick of the worst sports logo We have to go back. We got to talk about the baby cakes here. Dude, it's bad.

Turbo! I have seen this mascot. It's terrifying. What the fuck is going? Is he on a float? He's on a float? That's not a baby. That's the guy in the shield.

No, he's on a cake. Oh, he's on a cake. They put the guy in the shield inside of a cake. Oh, no. The live one is terrible, though. I'm supposed to believe he's. He's a baby. Yeah, the mascot's terrible.

Who's your first professional team? All right. So my, uh, the fifth overall pick is the Atlanta Hawks. Oh, thank God. Ooh. Ooh. Once again, going back, I think the older Hawks logo is better with the, the spreaded wings, claws on the, or talons on the basketball.

You think that's the older one. Damn. That's weird because it has done a full circle thing. Yeah. That's funny. And he, but you know what? Taylor's generation is. is why, and I'm getting there,

all these like Minnesota Timberwolves, like turn of the century uniforms, like Atlanta Hawks, late 90s, the Josh Smith or whatever, like, and he didn't play in late 90s, early 2000s. But the Kimbe wore the- Yeah, the spread out wings. Like, those are cool. They become retro.

The Memphis Grizzlies, like the original charter grizzlies. For sure on Tewolves and Grizzlies, but not on the hawks. The Hawks looks like Miss Pac-Man, if you actually look at it in a different, So I want to talk to you about that. For 34 years of my life, I did not know there was a hawk in there, which I think makes it great. Listen, I went to the playoff game last year in Atlanta, and what you're saying is the same thing.

I was like, look at this shirt. I was like, why is this logo like look like Pac-Man? And my girlfriend, I point out, like, she's like, you see there's like a hawk head in there. And I was like, no, it's Pac-Man eating a fucking peanut or something. Yeah, that's what it looks like to me also. Some people see this is a blue dress. thing. Yeah. Some people see the hawk. Some people see the hawk's eye and I see Miss Pac-Man about to finish a level. No question. Last bubble. It's a great point fact. I used to play NBA-oply. You

remember that? Yeah. I love that stupid game. Total rip-off of Monopoly and I'd stare at the hawk, not knowing what the fuck I love. I love the hawk logo. The one I'll, I can struggle with is wazoo by cougar in there. I think it's a dope logo. I'm not saying it's not, but I just like What's my W doing there? I can't quite figure out what's... It's a fucking cougar on an acid trip. Yeah. All right, so...

Chris, you're on the clock. Terrifying thought, actually. Oh, fucking the Phoenix Coyotes, man. I saw it on... I saw it on Taylor's Big Board, and it was like my number two... Bro, the coyote... No, not this one. Not this one.

Yeah, no, that was my number three. The one... They've made it cool. No, no, they haven't made it cool. They tried. Look at this logo, man. The Phoenix Coyotes logo. It's first of all, it's the Arizona Coyotes.

Whatever the fuck it is, they need to fix this. This is not cool. There's too much going on. We let this logo slide all the time. Oh, yeah, this is dope. I love this logo. You like this logo. Yeah.

You like a coyote in a hockey uniform. You're a hockey team in Arizona. Yeah, I mean, what are we? Yeah. Go nuts. I mean, they gave him a stick. He's got opposable thumbs. he's holding the stick

you're appropriating Native American culture it's not cute it's a fucking hockey game I don't like this logo this logo's going too for me all right facts pick number seven with pick number seven in the worst logo draft

team facts is selecting he'll be round 16 telling us what draft it is it's beautiful I can hear the thing in my head don't do n n n go Nate the New York Johnson Giants. Okay.

Hey, guys, like, look. I have a feeling I know the Jags coming next? No, the Jags are not coming next. The New York Giants. First off, it's two lowercase letters. Two lowercase letters because you can't take the uppercase letters because the Yankees already have that. So, well.

But it's just the giant. You can find a logo. You can find some type of animation, something different. I just feel like it's super lazy to just have the initials. And it's like... I think you just, the whole helmet is a logo. Like the logo is just obnoxiously large. It's a giant logo.

It's two lowercase letters at the end of the day. Their logo at Midfield needs to go from like the red zone to the red zone. That would be dope. But this is my, these are my picks. Nate and I know, I just want to ask, and I'll probably do this two more times. Did you play for the New York Giants? I did. Play for the New York Giants.

Did it end well? It didn't bad. That's why they're the second pick. Okay. Nate and I are both giants. Once a giant, always a giant. And I'm with you, actually. I think a rebrand is in order.

I just don't know what you do. Do you prefer that in 1975? And why? Does that do it for you? And maybe because the N is capital, but I think I really... Oh, that is fucking cool. That's fire. But I think it's really just the optic of

like, we're taught that you don't start a sentence with a lowercase letter. It's just, it seems inferior. Yeah, no, that's... It honestly seems a little inferior. That's what they teach you day one of English major school. Is no,

right? Yeah. So we could be English majors, no problem. All right, makes you got two picks. Okay. Hold on a minute. Two picks. Not two.

That's right. Yeah, it's a snake draft. I know. I'm fucking with you. You explained that draft to me as tradition every time we do a draft. One, two, three, four, five, six, so with the eighth overall pick in the two thousand twenty-two worst logo draft. Team Making selects the Columbus Blue Jackets of the NHL.

Oh, they're bad. So they're, they're bad. They might have should have been the first pick. Thank you. Like, what a steal. Yeah, thanks. It's stars and swoops and swooshes. And I think like the,

I think that's the Ohio flag. I think it's involved. I think it's awful is what I think. It's terrible. You got the, what's it called? Is that a bevel? Like what Texas A&M

and now the University of Virginia has on their, logo. That's a bevel on the star. And I don't like it. With the ninth overall pick, Team Macon's going to select the the Orlando Magic for many of the same reasons

I just said. Get more creative. It's terrible. Just slap a little magic tail on the fucking basketball and call it a day. Like, I know we're being harsh, but especially some of these NBA teams, I kind of wonder, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in these meetings. Yeah.

Fax, your pick. Team Fax selects the Miami Marlins. He was just remarking on how he liked that logo. No, I wasn't. I'm going to keep it right in Florida. He said Orlando. Okay. We're going to take it to Miami.

So again. I just said the fish has gotten a little better. Another case. I like the old fish. Yeah, that's the old fish. That's the old category. No, that's a new one. That's the current one.

This isn't the current one? No, they've redone it. Oh, they redid it since that, dude. Oh, really? Like what, like in the last couple years? Yeah, well, check it out. Check it out. See, you might agree with making.

Top, there it is, right there. Oh. Total clip art. It's not great, but it's better. I'm sticking with it. It looks trashy. I'm a big fish fan, and if you're going to call your team the Marlins, like you got to have a better fish logo.

You're a big fish fan? I like, I do a lot of watching. of fishing like YouTube. Trey Anastagio. Nah, Deer me for dinner, Blue Gave, you know,

I'm a Pescatarian. You should watch, you should watch fishing shows. Are you offended as a Pescatarian? Yes. That he just watches TV shows? Yes. I'm seeing how you get your,

your fresh fish. All right, Chris, you're up. Round three, pick 11. I mean, um, fuck, dude. The Minnesota Twins,

don't even make an effort. I know it's like a tall task, but, It's just some, it's a fucking, it's a sweatshirt that a guy buys. That's the only, like, that was the only thing they had in mind when they did the Twins logo. Can we put these on sweatshirts and we'll white guys in their 40s buy the sweatshirt? What's what that C? Like for logos.

Like, what is it? You really don't like C's, no. That it really is the Bears C. It's just that C. Like, why that one? That is the Bears C. That's interesting. It's also the cleat, like, the Reds.

It's a lot of people. It's weird. That's where I thought that would have been a great draft. To just move all the Cs. I thought about it. That's fucking good. All right. Taylor, you got the last pick in the third round.

All right, with the last pick of the third round, Team Taylor selects the San Diego Padres. I don't even know what a podre is. I'm looking at you. Hey, man. It's like you have the wrong logo. It's like a friar.

Yeah. I actually like this logo. Me too. It's a real. safe, easy logo, but it's not a cop out. It's classic. Shit on it a little bit, Taylor. Get us in the mood. It's just two letters, man. I mean, I, there's, what more do you want to? Another brown and yellow, which is cool.

Brown and yellow. It's two letters. I love brown and yellow. It's not even like a cool font. It's like bullshit. Fuck you. Look at that font. No, I take that back. I'm sorry. But look at that font. It's awesome. It's sharp. They're interlocking. It's got that little. Hey, hold on. Hey, hold on. Hey, hold on. That needs to be on a soundboard. The friar's kind of cool.

I'd like to. The home run going yard. The friar going yard is. The vintage friar. I would like. You don't like the way those letters look? Just get more creative than a fucking letter. Thank you.

I'm with you, man. I'm tired of seeing like all these teams just like, hey, we got our new logo out. We updated it to the first letter of our name. Real original. All right. Last round of the draft. You each have one pick left.

Taylor's up first. All right. And with my last pick of the worst logos draft, going NFL with the Los Angeles Rams. It is not great. It's not great. I think they had a really cool concept when the team was in St. Louis. And also from a, I kind of liked it with the ramhead. You like that ram head. I like the ram head. And I like the, uh, the goal like that metallic bronze and, uh, the dark navy blue. Man, you just. Holy shit, dude. I like it better than this. Maybe you had to play in a game there or attend games there to really feel like that logo. I just have a visceral reaction to that logo. But.

And also from a design standpoint, this new Los Angeles logo, if you look at the L and the A, the slants, aren't even the same angle. There are two different angles. I do not like that. I don't like that either. I think to what Makin was saying earlier, I think all these marketing teams, they're pushing towards like a more simpler like approach to these and I wonder if it has anything to do with like crypto and the future of like yeah tokens and like little emblems yeah and like emoji type things yeah I feel like everyone wants to have

like their logos ready for that type of stuff because you think they're in there like we got to be ready to get this on blockchain 1,000% 1,000% because emojis like emoji is the new way to like communicate and all these teams and things like that in the future moving forward hey Nate no emoji I don't agree. Hey disagree emoji it's fine I know but that's a hot take it's a hot take who's up you are oh that's fucking awesome I would like to send back in my third round pick and put the Dallas Mavericks for my third third third yes great thank you great glad you agree I hate this logo it's such a dog shit logo you're the old logo is awesome you put a cowboy hat on a basketball yes it's

literally infuriating that they go with that shit logo over the classic one it's incredible i know that we're not just doing like spite for the for the new logo relative the old one but fuck the NBA is full of that i hate that course i mean who gives a fuck what is what's why are there six stars or seven stars above the horse probably a reason probably some stupid reason that nobody knows Nobody knows. Is that how many chips they have or no? Maybe. Definitely not.

Definitely not the chips. Look at that old fucking cowboy hat. Yeah. On that beautiful M. Yep. Oh, it's not stars. It's just Dallas. I just blacked it out.

That's better than what I imagined it was. There's a star at the bottom. Because everything's got to have a star. I'm telling you, bro, Mark Cuban, crypto guy. He knows. That logo needs a. an update and then so that my last pick is going to be oh no this is fine he replaced his third round pick and you said it was okay you said it was okay oh I said it was a great pick I don't know

if I said we could totally rule yeah but you're just a drafter I'm the arbiter next pick oh commissioner he just David sterns you yeah it's fine um hey he's moving it along no complaints here no complaints here I'm going to Brooklyn Nets that's a That's a terrible pick. You like that logo? I think it's, it's just bad. Is it a net?

Is that a net? I don't like it. Is the triangle the net? God, you know what? Cleveland Cavaliers, cheeks. See? Well, are you doing honorable mentions now?

No, I'm in Cleveland Cavaliers might be my fourth. Damn, bro. You got to pick everybody? Yeah, seriously. Well, y'all were just prepping for a draft. I was prepping for an hour and 75-minute interview, so excuse. I'm sorry. You got 10 seconds on the class.

75 minutes. Just giving it. I was fully prepped. I could have taken that entire interview. Pelicans. Good pick. Yeah, I could tell right off the bat. Are you serious?

How about it was you, Dodis Haslam? I was ready, though. How did I get out of this? Oh, you didn't like that? U.D. People call them U.D. Okay. All right.

I get the joke. You son of a bitch. I get the joke. I could have gone two hours, 75 minutes with Jeff Prolman. Now it's me now, right? Oh, fuck me. Yeah. Nate, your turn.

By the skip me. Okay. Final pick in the 2020. You bitch. And who did you just pick? Did you pick the Cav? I had not made my pick. You said Pelicans, I thought.

Yeah, you did. All right, Pelicans. I'll give it to the Pelicans. You off the clock now? I'm off the clock. All right. Team Fax with the last pick of the 2022 draft, worst logos.

We're going to the end. NBA and with the Detroit Pistons, which is just a red basketball and Detroit Pistons. But they tried to do more letters, dude. I don't understand what the rules are. But they really, that old horse was better. No. Yes. They went back to the Isaiah and the Lambiers.

I understand. And the horse was better. But the uniforms are probably better now. And then the muffler flame like under the pistons. I like that. Look at that muffler. This is another one. But it's lazy.

I do too. I disagree with the bat. I disagree, but hey. What does this say about Detroit Pistons? It says we're back to the bad boys. Welcome back. Macon's got the last pick of the draft. Then we all got four.

Okay. With nods to the rays, Astros, Rangers, clippers, Dolphins for changing it up, Florida Panthers, L.A. Kings. I'm going with the Dallas stars. And my roster is very repetitive. Yeah, you thought I was going Dallas early.

I mean, yeah, they botched that one. The Bevel, it's a D on a star. You hate Bevels. I hate Bevels. Except for Bevel Conway. Except for Bevel Conway. I mean, look, they made the top of the star of the A and the Mike Medanos. Well done, full marks.

And now we're just back to it. It's bad. Yeah, it's bad. Back in the day, they had a sick one. It's pretty easy talking football in the Green Light Pot. I feel pretty good about that. Knowledge level nine out of ten, at least. Some days, 10 out of 10.

Compare it or contrast it, rather, with my ability to code a website, to design a website, to execute a website, to put it out into the World Wide Web, like a zero out of ten. And we need a website at the Green Light Pot. Can't just do football segments. So that's where somebody like Fiverr comes in.

You know, we found the people that executed all those tasks on Fiverr, real life. That's what happened. And this was my first time batting a thousand. And we love it. The website's awesome. It's live and it's powered by Fiverr. Here are the great things about Fiverr. You can find what you're looking for instantly.

It's easy. Customize your search by service deadline. price, seller reviews, and more. No more guessing games. You know what you're paying for up front. And that's what I like. No negotiation needed. Pricing is always project-based, not hourly. I like that too, 24-7 customer service. Reach out with questions anytime, anywhere. You can find a freelancer with specific skills you need for your next project. Check out Fiverr.com receive 10% off your first order by using my code green light. Find all. the digital services you need in one place at fiverr.com, F-I-V-E-R-R-com, Code Greenlight.

Again, it's Fiverr.com Code Greenlight. Okay, rapid fire these guys. These came in from the fans. Would you rather have Macon's big old teeth or faxes crippled feet? Had big teeth? I did not know you had big teeth. Why do I have crippled feet? God damn, dude.

Yeah, I thought you guys admitted this on the pot or something. things we've said. These are just judgments? Yeah. People being mean to us. People on the internet being mean. Crippled feet. Like, damn.

I think the teeth are totally normal. Look at me. Oh, fuck. I fuck something up. I told you, now you're going to have this stuck in your head. Well,

I think it's going to roll off me more easily than it did you now, Mr. Perfect Grill. Well, I had really a really fucked up grill. And by the way, you'd rather have big teeth than small teeth. I had little dolphin teeth. I'm okay with the criticism.

And would you rather have Macon's big teeth or Will Compton's dolphin teeth before he got veneers. He talks about it openly. I'd rather be real, you know? And by the way, my answer would be Macon's teeth because you can fix teeth. If you truly have... What's wrong with my... I don't think there's anything wrong with your teeth.

I'm going to snitch on whoever... Just a mailbag. Here, roast this guy. Just a mailbag. Let's turn the mailbag back on the people. Oh. Rather have me, my fat teeth, than your... Small dick.

Whoa. Back to the jokes. Here's a little comedy trick, Taylor. If you bleep it gets even funnier. Did you have one for reliving sporting event? No. Yes. You do.

Which sporting event would, Roxanne, which sporting event would you want to relive? The 93 stabbing of Monica Seles in Hamburg. I don't know that there are a lot of opportunities. out there for me to be heroic. And if I can relive this, I see the stabber coming. I tackle that guy, whose name is

Gunther, by the way. Really? I'm the guy. I save Monica Sellis. 1993. And I'd be a seven-year-old hero. That's a good one. Thanks. Unprepared to the dance here. I don't have one. Is there anything, any

sporting event you'd like to relive? Factory? I think it would have been cool. to been at the malice at the palace. Would you have jumped in? I don't think I would have jumped in, but if that would happen like this day and age, like if I was close,

I would have got some great, some great upclose footage that probably would have went viral, like ESPN or someone. You're always thinking marketing minded and one from Mike Golick that's kind of on topic. Right before you hit that, I would go watch Wilts Chamberlain's 100 point game

because there's no actual footage of that. It was only on the radio. They play Super Bowls in a hangar. SAG Awards were in a hangar. Really? Yeah. Hey, SAG? Okay.

Hanger? All right. This comes from Mike Golick, and it is, if you were stuck in a time loop, a la la la the movie Palm Springs, Groundhog Day, etc., what would your plan of attack be at approaching life? This is from Mike Golick Jr.

Our friend. What? Groundhog Day is a fun day. Have you seen Groundhog Day? Yeah. You know what happens? Mm-mm. I don't remember.

Same thing. Every day. It's just like you repeat the same day over and over, so you woke up and every day is February 28th. Oh, okay. Not quite, but, yeah. There's Adam Sandler movie like that. What's it called? When he just, he looted, like.

51st dates? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I haven't seen. no one. There's also a Tom Cruise movie, The Edge of Tomorrow. Let's say it's literally today. Yeah. Over and over. Here comes over. Over and over.

Oh, yeah, I don't show up to this job. Probably spend the day with my daughter. Yeah. Maybe my wife. Go to church. But that's the point. You're going to see them tomorrow. Like, I'm going to do whatever I want to do. I'm doing crazy shit, essentially. They're going to Vegas.

And sometimes can you die and come back? I don't know. Yeah. I think so. The answer is just you do different stuff every day. Oh, I'm just, I'm going nuts. I'm going nuts. Oh, I'd probably try to influence a college basketball game this evening. Get on one side, maybe streak the court.

Oh, I would streak like everywhere. Yeah, just a lot of streaking. A lot of streaking. I would bankrupt win bet with a 50-team college basketball parlay eventually. Yeah, but the thing is then you don't get to enjoy it. You can't spend the money. Yeah. I would cross over the international date line and see if it somehow screws up the time loop by messing with, you know, they're in like in a different time zone like that, you know what I mean?

Like going back in the past in a way. Yeah. Just you got hitting in the face with what we got coming from the back of the room, huh? It made its way back then. Huh? No, realistically, I'm probably just doing some wild shit. All right. That's it for mailbag and everything else.

making it's 3 30 see ya have a great day take care of yourself take care of Nate facts have a great day peace thanks for reading our podcast

if you prefer to read the podcast go to greenlightpodcast dot com we have transcriptions holy shit we do if you're making yeah go to green light and read the podcast what we say is transcribed

hey good game guys I'd like to in the spirit of I want to shake your hand in the spirit of Tom iso good game we don't even need to touch you Gigi G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G's all right Taylor good game Oh