Green Light with Chris Long - Joe Barksdale on Mental Health, Music, and the NFL. Late Night Mailbag.

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

0:41 - Open and intro to Joe Barksdale. 3:11 - Chris and Joe Barksdale Catching Up. 14:30 - Joe Barksdale on Mental Health. 37:15 - Joe Barksdale on Music Beginnings and Career. 1:06:03 - Joe Barksdale on Social Isolation. 1:10:42 - Mailbag. About Chalk Media: Following the unfiltered voice and vision of Chris Long, Chalk Media is the interactive online community for you, the intelligent and humorous sports fan. Driven by access, Chalk delivers a unique perspective that cuts through the canned talking points and provides a variety of content from your favorite sports and entertainment celebrities. Here at Chalk, we don’t take ourselves too seriously, but we are rooted in challenging the perception of professional athletes. We embrace the “real” with a unique combination of humor and intelligence. Chalk is a community with a voice beyond 240 characters that brings a perspective and vibe to a traditionally brash and boastful sports media space. Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more. Nothing is off limits at Chalk - hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Greenlight Pod. I'm your host, Chris Long, Joe Barksdale on today. So I'm excited about that. Joe Barksdale, an old teammate of mine, good football player, played at LSU, Oakland, St. Louis, the Chargers, only retired a year or two ago. And I'll do a late-night mail bag afterwards. Excited to have Joe on. And yeah, he was a very good player. We battled a lot in practice, one-on-one pass for us, team period. You know, iron sharpens iron. That whole. thing. There's always, you know, I played with a lot of guys. I don't know if it was in the thousands, but sometimes it seems that way. And there was a lot of turnover in St. Louis, but I'll always remember guys that I had individual battles with in practice. And I think there's a kinship there that goes far beyond football. And I do keep up with Joe from time to time. And he was a good football player. But what I'm most proud about Joe is his, ability and willingness to talk about his struggles with mental health outwardly, very outwardly.

And, you know, when I play with Joe, he was a guy who was the life of the party. He was a guy who would crack jokes, keep things light. You know, sometimes he had a temper, but we all kind of had tempers at times. We all got into some scuffles and fights and whatnot. And, you know, Joe wasn't anything out of the ordinary in that way. But he had his good days and bad days like all of us. I never would have expected that he would have been battling those issues. So when I read it, obviously I was shocked, but I was also proud of him for having the strength

and the courage to come out and talk to somebody with a major publication newspaper like that. You know, it takes vulnerability and bravery. And so I think that whenever there's a player, like that who comes out in a very alpha male a very alpha male sport and speaks on that stuff authentically it's valuable so appreciate him for doing that we're going to talk to him about that we're going to talk to him

about his musical career his budding musical career I do remember in around 2013 when we were teammates and he picked up a guitar and you know it's one of those things you're like okay cool hobby we all want to be good at guitar but about seven years later he He has an album out already. He's got a single out right now. And then this fall, he's got an album out called Sincerely Coming in the fall. I don't have a date.

I'll try to get it from him. But the music sounds good. As I said, I'm proud of him on a few counts as a teammate. So let's hear from Joe. Joining me now on the Greenlight Pod, former teammate turned rock star. Dude, you're saved in my phone. Rockstar Joe. Barkstale in all caps.

You got a name and claim it, baby. Name it and claim it. Dude, you see I got my Jimmy Hendricks shirt on you. You know, you can see me on the Zoom, but. Yeah, I know. It's definitely. Jimmy Hendricks. Joe Barkstale, Jimmy Hendricks.

I'm going to take Joe Barkster. No, I'm just, actually no. I'm going to take Joe Barkstale. Okay, so for those of you listening, Joe Barkstale, a long time, NFL tackle. We had a lot of battles and practice one-on-one pass for us, that sort of thing. and was a really good player, played for the Raiders, Rams and Chargers. We scooped him from the Raiders

and treated him to a couple really stressful years, probably in St. Louis. It's funny, it actually got worse than I went to the next team. When it went to L.A., it got worse than San Luis. I remember telling Brianna, like, I miss St. Louis so much. Like, it got worse. Did you miss the place, or did you miss, like, what did you miss? Because we weren't winning a lot.

Y'all won more than I did in L.A. We won more than we did in L.A. And every time we played each other afterwards, you were on the winning team. Yeah, yeah. Well, you played, okay, so right off the top, you played an LSU standout as well. So I don't know if you're still watching those games a lot,

but that was pretty fun this year. Yeah, I heard. I was able to catch a couple near the back end of the season, but, I mean, you know how it is. You don't want to get too excited. So you played, again, Oakland, St. Louis, L.A. Chargers. And if there's one thing those teams have in common is really shitty facilities, which team had the worst facilities?

Give me the breakdown. That's hard. But I'm going to say the Chargers. I mean, yeah, I'm going to say the Chargers. I'm not going to. There's radioactive waste next door in Earth City. I forgot about that. But even with, I'll put it like this.

Even with the radioactive waste, where I was coming from. and where I was going, that was the one in Earth City was the place to have the radioactive waste. Because everything else I think was cool. Like there was, I mean, things that I took for granted, like an area outside of the locker room to dry your shoes so the entire locker room doesn't smell like shit. Full-length fields, you know, didn't know I'd miss those.

Yeah, like we didn't have a full-length field when the Chargers moved to L.A. Yeah, it was like all the West Coast teams and, you know, this from going to play them. Like, even their game day operations, like visitors' locker rooms, like, yeah. Like, I love to play at the Coliseum. Like, I'd love to go play the Rams and play at the Coliseum because it felt like I love the old stadiums. I loved Candlestick when we used to go there,

although I used to tell Meg, do not wear any Rams gear. It's not that type of place. But I love the field and the vibe. The locker room was always bad, though. Out on the West Coast, is all those California teams. Yeah, and I think what it was is, you know, I mean, those teams were so good back in the day. I think they think you're just going to get, you know, bought in on the mysticism, which is not the case. No, no, it's not. Now, they've upgraded. But I thought we had a pretty good setup in St. Louis, like you said,

Earth City was, well, you know, we had a large whirlpool. We had a sauna. We had a steam room, you know, nice field fields, as you mentioned. We had grass fields was good. Yeah, like, I mean, I don't know. Like, I'm not going to sit here and, you know, I'm not trying to bash the team or anything, but at the same time. I feel good because it's not even, you know,

I can bash the facilities because nobody's, using the facilities anymore. The practice facilities were not great. And I loved, you know, my eight years in St. Louis. The practice facilities were not great solely for the fact that there was an immediate threat to my health up the hill at that garbage dump. Do you remember how it used to smelling camp? I remember. Like, yeah, I remember. You're right. Like, I mean, the way I saw it was, it was a 50-50. We can either get cancer or we could get superpowers. So I was willing to wait it out. I mean, one of the two. And then Oakland, I know because I visit there, like, truly from a football perspective,

those facilities were not great. I remember visiting there. It felt like offices from the show the office. Like, they were divided by thin styrofoam dividers. Yes. And it's like, wait, y'all do football up here? Oh, okay. Yeah.

Is this a, you know, a printer factory? Is the Kinko's office? Or, you know, like. And now LA, I would assume it was not great either. So you're put like this. The Rams by far, everything included was by far and away, the best facilities I'd ever been. I've been in my career. And that's, and so shout out to Earth City in that in that standpoint.

But I, you know, I can't forget the smell of burning trash. So you've been out of the game, what? Two years now almost, a year and a half? Okay. What do you miss? Do you miss anything? Yeah, that makes sense. I don't miss a lot.

I miss game day. That's about it. I hate a game day. I hate it game day because I used to always, you know, I mean, I feel like, you know, everyone gets butterflies and that kind of stuff, but like I used to get so nervous. I wouldn't eat before the game. By the time the game's over, you're not hungry afterward.

I mean, it's, it used to, oh, I used to hate game day. Don't get me wrong, like, it was, you know, I guess part of it too is if you play for nothing, you know, once again, the best teams I had been on were those. Rams teams in Earth City. So not like winning a bunch of the time either. Yeah, seven wins is, and that was my ceiling as well before I got lucky and started hitting a lot of late.

I mean, but I also miss, okay, if I'm being honest, I do miss things like the night before at the hotel, if we have a decent schedule, watching college football with the guys, like, you know, eating ice cream Saturday night knowing I'm going to burn all that off on Sunday. I miss, you know, Saturday morning, you know, getting the college football bets in. You know, I miss the buzz around game day. I don't miss anything. I miss people coming into town, you know, my friends coming in to watch games, like that

sort of thing. But, you know, when the music stops, it's really not that bad. I think a lot of people fear it if they're not, they don't feel like they have a foundation in their kind of identity. And if your identity is just football or you don't have an identity, you're going to struggle. And I've struggled. Like, I've had my moments, but I'm much happier now that I was a year. a half two years ago.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, it could be argued I've been miserable with my entire NFL career. It could be argued. But like, so for me, I mean, I don't know, I came into the NFL with a bad taste in my mouth and it just never left. Like, I remember, you know, coming out of college

and it was like a real knock on me that I did not need football, you know. And I feel like for my first maybe two or three years, I was trying to prove to coaches that like, no, I can be dependable. You know, I can be a good player and all that. But I think, I don't know. Like, you know, I have to think. No bad habits, Joe.

No bad habits. But at the same time, like, all the things that you just talked about, watching college football games, getting your bets in, you know, doing like, I didn't do any of that. I didn't watch sports, you know. Did you ever like football? Ah, that's a, that's a hard question to answer. I love competing.

And I believe, and I think because I love competing and I knew I could compete, you know, in football, but I think I was always in love with competing. Like, even with football, like, it wasn't about if the team won or if the team lost, like, you know, did you see me put hands on that dude? Like, he didn't make a play. The imposing your will part of it was great.

I used to love seeing frustrated looks and, you know, defensive ends and whoever's faces when they knew they weren't, you know, is the third quarter. You haven't made a play. You're not going to make a play. You just punched him in the helmet again in your past set, you know, and you got to work. None of us ever got flags.

I've been a facemass from Joe Barksdale's vertical set many times. I don't know that I ever, I don't know that I ever like, you know, loving football is an interesting way of putting it. Because there are some guys, no doubt about it who, you know, eat, sleep, breathe football. And they're just me like football. Like, that's not, that's not me. It never was me. I loved game day. And you play with me.

I was intense. I loved that. I played my ass off. but I hated Monday through Saturday. So at a point when the payoff on Sunday got to a point where it wasn't perfect for me, and you can call that whatever you want to call it, I just, there were things I like more, like my family included, you know, my autonomy, not being yelled at by 55-year-old men.

That have never done it. Yeah. I mean, those, at a certain point, you know, and I think to your point, I love competing, so I can identify with that. But I don't think there's anything wrong with never loving, loving football. Like if you love individual period, if you love, you know, walkthroughs, if you love sitting in meetings for three hours, then you got it. You love football. You win the contest. I don't love football if that's the barometer. See, I can do, and that's the kind of stuff

that I did love. Like, I love the individuals. I love practice. Like, even now with music, I love practice and I love getting better. Um, because I know you don't just show up and be, you know, the guy on Sunday or whatever, you know, on stage day or whatever. But I think for me, my relationship with football, the reason I started playing football was actually, like, before football, I was going to be an engineer. And it was my dream to be an electrical engineer and eventually, you know, start to work with the interior design of different auto manufacturers. Like, that's what I wanted to do. Really? Yep.

And when I turned 14 and 15, I was invited to this residential engineering camp at University of Michigan. And the second day, I got kicked out for rough housing. parents made me feel like shit. I mean, you know, you can imagine. Like, it was a pretty prestigious opportunity. After I got kicked out of that camp, I needed something to do over the summer. I wanted to get in shape, started playing football.

And I will say, like, I mean, you can imagine if you start playing football at 15, 16, everybody else has been playing since they were five, six. It's a steep learning curve. But it was like, when I started to pick it up, it was the first time in my life, in my life that I felt like people wanted me around. and they were happy to see me

when I was like getting off the bus or coming around the corner walking in the practice. And I feel like I had football became like self-validation for me because I wasn't getting it at home. I mean, I had a shitty childhood. And the reason I really poured everything

in the football was so I could get out the house. I go as far away as I can and pretty much start my life over. And I think along the way, the competitive edge just kicked in and it became about like, I mean, the reason I love competing, is because I want people to feel as shitty as I do.

Even if it's, even if it's just for a three-hour period in the game. Like, you know, I want people to feel that hopelessness, that fucking, what's the point? Because I feel like that all the time. You've spoken at length about mental health,

which I think is a tremendous thing. I was, you know, I said I was proud of you when you popped up on Spotify. It might have been more proud, but at the same time terrified when I read that article in 2018. I mean, like, seriously,

you're laughing because you like to think the pressure off people when they talk, which is really cool and endearing. But when I read that article in 2018, in the LA Times, I believe it was, you know, I always knew, like a lot of us who play football, we got issues. I mean, we, you know, everybody has trauma on some level. But I had no idea that you were battling this stuff the way you were. So what made you decide to come out and be public with it? Because when I started to come to terms with it,

I think, you know, it's human nature to look around and realize what you don't have. And in that time, I'm talking about, like, there is no one that's ever come. I mean, you had a couple people, but, like, for the most part, I didn't have anyone that had been through what I had been through that was talking about it or any of that. And I thought, you know, man, that really sucks. you know you lament that. And I'm in the back of my mind, another thought came like,

and it would really suck if you didn't become that for someone else. You know, so that was the big thing. I mean, you know me. You know how I used to dress in St. Louis? I don't care what other people think about me. And the reality of the situation is, I knew that if I was going to come out about it

and, like, someone like me needed to come out about it because people couldn't just write it off on CTE, or anything like that. You know, I got the brain scans. I didn't start playing until super late. But, like, I mean, the reality of the situation is there's a lot that happens before you ever get on a football field, like molestation, death. You know, knowing that I'm not the only person that has been through that

and I'm not the only one that's going to go through it. Like, somebody's got to say something. I can't, I can't in good conscience just sit around and, you know, let these people who have no voice just continue to suffer in silence. So that was something that I was very passionate about. And I mean, yeah, that's something I've always been. That's something I will always be passionate about. Yeah, a couple things.

First, I think it is extremely helpful for people to hear somebody talk about that on a lot of levels. Even if it was just somebody you know talking about it, I think it probably helps. But the fact that you're a professional football player, you're this alpha male, you know, you're macho guy, you know, punching the fuck out of defensive linemen illegally in the face masks every day. all intimidating, grunting with that with that scowl on your face. Like, you know, you're big scary Joe, but you're being, you're being vulnerable, which is really cool. I mean, like, and I think that adds an element of this is great.

We need more people in our sport and this alpha male sport to be vulnerable. And then there's the issue of the CTE stuff you talked about, which is, and I've always said this. I'm not a CTE denier. I'm not some, like, I think football is undeniably bad for you. but there's a number of people, just like yourself, who are self-aware enough

to realize that they've been dealing with realities long before football. And you've been dealing with chronic depression most of your life? Yeah. I mean, when I was born, my parents wanted a girl, and I'm going to just leave it at that day.

Like, and I was made aware of that fact the rest of my life. Like, if I still, I don't, I don't really have, I don't even have relationships with anybody from my family. tree. Because first and foremost, I mean, I would consider myself another failure if my kids went

through what I went through with me being their dad. And I felt like that was the best decision to, you know, prevent that. I mean, like, what I'm curious about is, like, how long did you know you were dealing with something? And then, like, I know, okay, I have anxiety. It's nothing compared to what you've dealt with from what it sounds like. And there have been times in my life where I've tried to be like, oh, it's this thing in my life. It's that thing.

If I just eliminate this thing, I'll feel better. I'll be less anxious or I won't have the same, you know, negative thoughts or ruminations or whatever. Like, if I just alter this, oh, if I work out a little bit more, like, those things can all help. But did you battle a while with realizing like, hey, either I got to go all in on fixing this? I think it was something that happened over time because I remember like, I don't even remember the doctor's name, but there was a doctor that saw it in St. Louis. And he said something about it. And that was really my first time, like, taking antidepressants, but I was only on them for like a couple weeks because one of the side effects of them, I think it was, it wasn't Zoloft. There was some kind of SSRI. But one of the side effects was he couldn't ejaculate. I'm like, I'm not living the rest of my life. You know, taking medication, that's going to stop me from doing it. That's a small detail there that they need to put in a little bit bigger writing on the bottle. I mean, what really sucks about all of that medication is one of the side effects that could increase suicidal tendencies.

What? How do you properly find the drug that's right for you? And are you currently, do you take medicine or, you know, like, I know, that's got to be part of the, there's probably a whole host of things that you do to be in your routine. Like, you probably do you talk to the therapist? on a regular basis? Twice a week. Tuesdays and Fridays.

I'm on Will Butron. I take 400 milligrams a day. And, you know, the bodybuilding, like the working out, physical exertion helps. I stretch at night, meditate, you know, I make the music, you know, with my kids. you know, just having a root, I've developed a routine and I feel like works. Obviously, you know, different days, you know, I can change things around. It's not like things have to happen at a certain time, but I just notice, you know, I mean, like, you notice or anybody can notice on the days you drink more water, you just feel a little better. Yeah.

And it's the same thing with that, you know, the days of it, you know, the more of that stuff I can do on a daily basis, you know, I feel a little better. But I mean, I also understand that this is probably, and I think this is what really brought one of the reasons, I don't know, one of the reasons I came out about it was because I had to come to terms with the fact that this is probably going to be what it's going to be for the rest of my life. Like, you know, and I can either live with that and, you know, start to fight it or I can just keep on trying to ignore it and things will get worries. That's kind of what I'm talking about, like the realization at some point that you can't have that says. You have to, like, make changes to your life. So I got it when that was. So I had, and this is, for the longest time, I just kind of ignored it and I told myself that everybody grew up like me

and I was just being soft, stopped being soft, you know. You sound like an offensive line coach. Yeah, but, you can fix your chronic depression. You just need to get your punch inside. Yeah, you're right. Just hit a dude in the chest and that'll make you happy. But I would say, so when I was like eight, had a really, really, really close friend.

Her name was Jenae. She was my god sister. And she was raped and beat the death in her bedroom of her house. I found out through the news. Like my parents knew these people's families. My grandparents knew these people's families. And they felt the best way to tell me was to bring me home early from school

and cut the five o'clock news on it, whatever. And that really, like that, I mean, and there were things that happened before that, but that was obviously like, you know, a really big traumatic moment for me. And it wasn't until 2016. My daughter, this is just when we had one kid. Her name's Kennedy, firstborn, and she was crying in the car. And this is one of the first times I really heard her cry at length. Because most of the times it's just cute baby cry, especially during the season. And she's like wailing in the car. I don't know if she was teething or what. and I had like this massive panic attack.

And it wasn't until years later, like a year or two later, when I'm talking to my therapist that I realized the reason the panic attack came was because I felt like I did back when I was eight. Like someone was getting raped, beat to death, and there was nothing I could do about it, you know. And that's when I realized like, you know, if that one thing that happened to me back when I was eight years old is affecting me, you know, this way now,

what else has happened that I'm not acknowledging? You know. That takes time. Yeah. And I mean, and it takes bravery, too, because I'm not going to sit here and say therapy is easy. Just like you were asking earlier how you figure out what medication works. I mean, that was a two-year process because you pretty much, you start a new medic. Let's just say you start whatever medication you start.

And these are the same drugs that people sell on the street, too, you know. So they're addictive. And you're pretty much, you know, becoming dependent on something over a couple weeks. And then you're seeing how you feel over that next couple weeks to see how it works. and if it doesn't work, you got to detox. And so, you know, going through that process can be pretty intimidating. And, I mean, it can beat you down, too. I mean, I can't, because, you know, with detoxes sometimes come to withdrawals

and those kind of things. I mean, you know, I mean, it's, I don't, I know that there's a way where they can take brain scans and do blood work to kind of get a better idea of what should work best for you. But at the end of the day, you still throwing stuff at a wall trying to see it. sticks. And I mean, for one medication, it could take you three months to see if it works for you or not, on top of another two or three weeks of withdrawals if it doesn't. So you mentioned, you mentioned this with the medication stuff, because this is one of the most terrifying things I would imagine is, yeah, you might know that even if you go through trial and error,

find the right medication for you, you find one, the reality of knowing that, as you alluded to, this is permanent. This is something that I can live a good life, but I'm going to need the dependency on something. And like you're very aware that, okay, I'm dependent now. So one, do you ever worry about something changing? And then just the prospect of not being your real self versus being a medicated version of yourself.

Do you have to grapple with that? Or is this your real self? And the medication unlocks the positive things that you couldn't have unlocked without it. I say it's somewhere in between. I would say this is, you know, I'm still trying to get closer to like a healthy me. Because if you, I mean, I'm saying if this is like,

there's no such thing as normal, but this is, if this is what people will consider normal, you start and maybe like down here, maybe medication can bring you maybe like up to here for some people that can bring them, you know, up here, right there's a whole bunch of different scales. But for me, I look at it like, like if I had diabetes or something like that,

you know, would I judge myself, you know, for having to, you know, do certain things when it comes to diabetes or if I had some kind of cancer and I had to go to chemo or do some other kind of treatment, would I judge myself for that? And I just try to look at it the same way. You know. Absolutely. Absolutely. When that stuff came out, how did your teammates, because you're an active player when this is happening and that's... I didn't talk to everybody about it. You didn't talk to anybody about it? So was it a shock to them when, when, when, you're an active player. all that stuff came out and how did how did people handle the news? Do you think that people change their perception to you?

A bunch of them called my wife or a bunch of them talk to their wives or girlfriends and who called my wife. I think people were shocked just like you were. Like because I mean, I mean, I've read the article and I even listened to the interviews that I've done around the time that that article came out and like people are like, whoa, who's this guy? Has you been lying to us this whole, you know, just people couldn't believe it. Like you said, like whenever rough things or awkward moments happen, like I'll

I'll be quick to crack a joke. I mean, but that's a defense mechanism. But at the same time, I think more than anything, it definitely brought awareness to my teammates because, and I'm not, you know, obviously I'm not naming any names, but there have been three or four that have approached me personally that have started since, have started going to therapy and, like, really taking it seriously

and have noticed positive changes in their lives. And I think it was a learning experience for everybody, you know, because out of all the people on the team that you would think were, you know, was going through what I was going through, I was not in the top, you know, 20, 30 in consideration of that. Yeah. So I think it really opened people's eyes to that to the whole like, oh, you never know what anyone's going through, that kind of thing.

Right. And it's the same story all the time when I read about your detailing that kind of process. Were there any other players in particular that were very helpful? Joey helped a lot. Joey helped a lot. I mean, Joey, me and Joey, were pretty much me and you from the Rams. Yeah, we run into each other

and then shoot the shit in the locker room for office. So like outside of football, he helped a lot. But I didn't really, I don't know, like even when I was at work, I didn't really talk about it much because I felt like, I mean, I didn't do it for other football players. I did it for people outside of the building, so it's not like I was ever, looking to talk to anybody in the building about it in the first place.

And if I'm going to be 100% honest with you, I'll just say it. Like, one of the side effects are, like, my mental condition is that I feel like everybody hates me anyway. So, like, nothing, in my mind, nothing changed. Like, you know. Well, I don't hate you. Whatever you're trying to do to make people hate you, it's not working, asshole, okay? What about coaches?

I mean, like, there's a difference between players and coaches. Because I think of players is being very understanding, you know, one thing, you know, one I'm going to talk to a coach about it. Huh? The coach never, no coach ever talked to me about it. Because they don't know how to. I think it's a generational thing. And then also, like, coaches are the kings of, like, we can't show any weakness.

I don't care what the reason is. Because, I mean, Jeff Fisher would have talked to me about it. Jeff Fisher did talk to me. Jeff Fisher is rare. Jeff Fisher is rare, for sure. Jeff Fisher has a real investment in the personal lives of the players on his team. You know, that's why when people say things about Jeff Fisher, you know, nobody's a perfect coach.

I mean, there's been hundreds and hundreds of coaches. And, you know, this is a guy who won hundreds of games and it's north of 500 and played in a Super Bowl was a Mike Jones tackle away from being a Super Bowl champion. Mike Jones. Who? Mike Jones. But, like, what nobody who's out there with a blue check writing about Jeff Fisher

and getting the seven to nine jokes off about, who, by the way, that could be unfounded. He's had high highs. football-wise, the personal stuff, they just have no idea. They don't know the difference between coaches that have an investment in their players and the ones that don't. And I couldn't imagine that they were very good at addressing you. And I'm not shitting on coaches.

Maybe they're afraid to talk about it. That's just not the way they were raised. Maybe. I mean, the reality situation is after that article came out, like, no one said anything to me about it, really. That's not good. I like and you can say what you want that you don't expect coaches to talk to you but like if I was a coach and my player is going through that I would think unless I'm petrified of having

the conversation or I look at it as a weakness which it's not it's actually a strength I know that's like a cliche but it's absolutely true I mean to put your your innermost demons out there in the LA times what do you think the NFL in general can do better in in helping players with issues like yours, and are they doing anything good that you want to highlight? I'll start with the second answer. No. I mean, reality situation, you play in the league.

Like, if it's not going to help the owners, it ain't happened. Right. You know, it ain't happening. So what could they do? Because there's always going to be another draft. What could they do? Bring therapists in the job. you know what the same amount of time that we spend talking about domestic violence and everything

which was just a liability cover your ass meeting by the way exactly if i if you have to if you are in an NFL locker room and you need an hour presentation a fucking slideshow a powerpoint presentation on why it's bad to hit women or to hit your wife then you should probably just get the fuck out of league like if you really think that hour that they do at the beginning What the league is not going to say is they want those players. Ray Barks was going to suspended for two. I think they don't care. I think they don't.

No, I'm saying those are the kind of people they want. Like they want you at any given moment it's time to be, you know, hey, okay, your wife, cool. Like they want super violent, super aggressive, whatever, whatever. So I think the problems come when it happens off the field. But like, we're not, I mean, let's just not sit here and act like, you know, there wasn't a bombing scandal. that happened in the league? Like, coach, just one of those guys. Hey, hey now.

Greg Williams is a good guy. Greg Williams, here's the deal. I don't know what Greg Williams was doing on his defense and what he wasn't doing on his defense. Like, if we're being serious, I never, like, I never caught a single whiff of that. Yeah. And we never, like, listen, I think it's hard enough to,

if you tried to hurt somebody, it's really hard to do that on a football field, like within the whistles. I mean, for you to do it egregiously between the whistles, everybody's going to see it, you know, an endemicu-sou stomp or twisting somebody's knee after the play. I think some people think when they watch Sean Taylor or Ray Lewis or some of these like notoriously hard-hitting players that it's just a decision. You're just going to decide to nearly decapitate somebody. You have to be a tremendous athlete. You have to be accurate. You have to have timing. And you have to be

in the right place to make that play. So, and I say make the play, like, do. what was being alleged was being done, which was an entire bounty scandal. And me playing for Greg Williams, I never had any, any, I never made any money. In fact, the Rams paid me handsomely. So why would I need, why would I need? Well, I'm trying to get this extra couple hundred or a thousand dollars. Like, like, really, like you're talking about guys making millions of dollars. You think they're going to sit in the meeting room with regularity and, and, what?

Hey, I got, I got the, if the quarterback doesn't come. back in the game. All right, coach, come on, man. Come on, man. What can the NFL do to help with them?

Yeah, well, I mean, like, what's the thing they do? You said bring therapists in, Joe, but playing devil's advocate, you bring a therapist in. What's every player's first, first?

No, no, no. I'm talking about bringing a therapist in to talk to players. Like, not, not individually. Like, hey, like I'm saying, the same thing with the domestic violence stuff,

with people who, Those meetings were so frustrating. You sit through like an hour and a half, two hour meeting, and they wouldn't even mention domestic violence once. We'd just be gearing up for a conversation that ever happened. It was like, it's domestic violence edging. And then at the end, they're like, anybody have anything to say?

Oh. Just, you know, and my whole thing is if, I guess the NFL can't do everything because they don't have these kids until they get in the league. So, you know, it's a developmental thing. How do you, like a lot of people's problems have already began to manifest by the time they get to league, whether, you know, you're engaging in a really destructive behavior like that, which is unacceptable. Or you've got some other sort of issue. I think the informative meetings are more like, hey, watch out for these type of scammers.

You know, hey, you want a security consultant to come in and look at your house. Like, that's great. but I think the NFL in general and domestic violence to me is part of a mental health thing because you don't hurt people unless you're hurt. Like that's just my opinion and not everybody gets hurt, hurts people, but yeah, if you brought therapists

in, everybody's like, well, I don't really want to share anything. Yeah, so I'm saying you just have a therapist. I want to go home. But you have a therapist come in, you're right. I mean, the reality situation is the way that the way that schedules and all that are set up already, maybe no one's going to listen. Maybe one person

listens. I mean, the reality, you know. If one person listens, to your point, you said something and then you talked to four different people that said that it spurred, you know, them going to seek help. So it was really cool. And I think at the very least, if the NFL can't do it, then players. I mean, we're talking about the same NFL that lost a collusion lawsuit against Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reed and whoever else. Like, come on, like, I'm not trying to bash the league or anything like that. But the league does not give a fuck. And if you don't know that, you're ignorant.

Right. Like that's the situation. It's just like the military. Why would I care about you when there's somebody else coming in to replace you next year? Like, you're, you're maximally expendable. And I think when you look at leagues, the less players they have, the greater the asset the players are, the more player friendly, the more they do things the right way. Leagues, I think. Let's not even get started on NFLPA.

Yeah. Well, I mean, that whole thing has been quite. That's a bad joke. This off season. So, yeah, I mean, I think they could do better. But I think what you've done has been invaluable. Like I said, I was proud of you. I was proud of you when I heard your music on Spotify.

But I was even more proud in a serious moment here when I read that article because it does take a lot of balls, put yourself out there like that. And you've undoubtedly helped a lot of people. Now, you started doing music, and that's what you're doing now. I mean, you start doing music in 2013, I read. And I remember that little phase, that was not a phase. It turned out to be like, that's your career trajectory. I was like, okay, Joe likes the guitar.

I was like, many people have liked the guitar in history, but never stuck with it or, you know, it's challenging. I've tried to learn once and I was like, it lasted like two days. And you gotta have that resolve and that drive. Like, where did that come from? And when did you realize that, guitar was something that could be you might be more of a guitarist than a football player do you do you consider yourself a musician first and football something you did yeah for sure like and

i think you know um in the end it'll be like duane the rock johnson i mean how many people who know him now know he used to be a wrestler you know um i would say just it came natural um and learning guitar went from you know being something that i was doing to try to process a death into another mouth, you know, I mean, you can say things. I can say things with a guitar that maybe I can't get across in words, you know, as well as just, you know, a method of self-expression and so forth. And, you know, I mean, I loved it. It was, I felt about it the way that I was supposed to feel about football.

And that's why I stay with it. But I mean, I mean, you can imagine, like finding out your dad died. And then the next call is from a coach, like, you're going to be able to make a practice. You know, like, and that was around the time when I really started to like, you know, reevaluate things in my life. And I don't know, like, the guitar was there for me and it was what I needed. And, you know, hopefully one day, you know, I can share that with the world. And you already have started sharing it with the world.

You have one album out technically, right? Yeah, I took the first one down. You took the first one down? What does that mean? You can't find it. unless you go to my website. But the reason I took it down was because I wasn't in love with the way that it sounded.

I mean, you know how it is. Like, I didn't want that to be the first impression people got on my music. The first impression is that electric solo EP. Yeah, okay, okay, got it. And then I dropped a single. There's a music video coming out next week for that single. The Black Magic single?

Yeah, I'm dropping three albums and like three or four singles and I think two or three music videos this year, trying to build a catalog. What's the most frustrating thing about learning to be a musician? professional musician or just a musician in general. Yeah, learning. I mean, like the basic step. What did you struggle with the most?

The theory, like picking up the theory, you know, I were related to, you know, how, like, everyone wants to learn karate. But before you're actually, you know, back in the 90s and the TV shows, before people started kicking a punch and there was the meditation and the stretching and, you know, all the things that went into, you know, having good technique for what you're trying to do.

I feel like it's the same with music. I'm sure just like it is with football. Like you were talking about you hate individual. Like, that's pretty much what learning. guitar. Well, I hate individual after the age of 30, because I've done my individual for many, many years. But I could, yeah, I can imagine. I mean, it's all the basics. And nobody thinks about getting into guitar or music. Well, maybe I don't want to speak for you, but like, and thinks about, hey, I can't wait to practice. Like, yeah, no, you're right. I was, oh, I can't wait to pick

this up and be frustrated every night. And, you know, yeah, you're right. I mean, there's a curve. But I think, just like with anything else, kind of like, so I do bodybuilding up, too. And I would say it's kind of like, I see. Hmm? I see. So I would say it's kind of like dieting. Like when you first starting, I mean, you know, like when you first starting, you lift and you're eating, you're not going to see anything the first week. Yeah.

But eventually the results will start to come. And yeah, it'll still be a pain in the ass, but you know what's going to come on the other end of it. It helps with the delay gratification and all that stuff too. So I think it works together. So Fishing you met and he helped you get into guitar. Yeah, like, it was a, it was, I didn't realize how private of a meeting it was until after the fact. But like, this was, we were coming back from Seattle. We were getting on the buses to go to the, to go back to the facility.

And, you know, I always was on the bus that he was on. I'm getting on the bus. He was like, hey, can I talk to you tomorrow after the exit meetings? Sure. You know, I was ready to go home, but I'm like, sure, you know, because I was driving anyway. And the next day, you know, after everything was done, I mean, he sat down and was like, you know, I don't want you to think. that, you know, if nobody else in the building, I mean, you know, no one else in the building understood how hard these last eight, nine weeks have been for you. I get it. And, you know,

being concerned about, you know, your mental health as well as just, you know, you as a person, I think that you should really find something to do this offseason. And I'm like, you know, I was, you know, was my second, third year in the league. I'm, oh, yeah, coach, don't even worry about it. I'm going to, you know, do a bunch of technique work. I'm going to come back even better. He's like, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about sports. I'm talking about something outside of sports. I'm like, well, you know, I play video games all the time. And he's like, no, you need something that's going to actually occupy, you know, part of your brain. And I'm like, well, I'm not going back to school.

And he's like, well, how about an instrument? I know you listen to music all the time, yada, yada, yada, yada. My son loves guitar. Maybe you should try guitar. And I'm like, okay. And that's how it started. That's all I started. When you become big time, will Jeff Fisher have a backstage pass?

Hell yeah. I mean, there's going to be people that have done less, you know, less. in my music career to have backstage passes. So, yeah. I'm saying, yeah, fish. Maybe Fish will make, like, a music video. You know, I don't say all that. But, no, I'm just, I'm just imagining maybe,

maybe Fish can be, like, one of the characters in one of your music videos, like a guy whose girl left him. Oh, yeah. Just, like, he's, like, riding his corvette around town all sad with his hair blown in the wind, and, or he could be, like, bass fishing all lonely. and like at the end he finds a new thing because he realized that what he needed

wasn't what he had all along. It's it he needs to not dwell on the past and see I can do this stuff for you. I can write songs and direct music videos. You're right. I mean the way I see it is like if I can be a professional football player, anybody can do anything.

Yeah. So you know, Brianna, your wife, who you always talk about as being a big support system for you. You've been very outward about that. You know, when it comes to the mental health stuff, when it comes to music, how hard is it to sell to your wife that, hey, listen, I made a bunch of money playing football,

we're probably good, but I got to go practice guitar for, you know, a couple hours a night. And it's not bringing in, you know, it's not paying the bills yet. Like, it's an art. Is she supportive of it because she knows you need it and she just knows you love it? It's not necessarily like a nine to five where you're paying the bills with it yet. Right. I think, I mean, I always say, like, we, so as far as, like, the money side of things go, like, we hit financial independence, I think, back in, like, the end of 15, beginning of 16.

So she was technically trying to give me to retire ever since that suicide attempt, 16. Right. As far as the music was concerned, and she said this, like, verbatim, because she was around before I started playing football. And she's like, you know, as far as football is concerned, back in high school, you could have asked me, you could have asked her, we didn't think I was going to the league. This was just, you know, a way to get into college, get a good degree, moving on. But she's like, yeah, after being around and, you know, seeing how you started with football and where it ended up, I have way more faith than you're like, you know, you're starting that guitar and where that can end up. She was actually the reason that I got that I started taking vocal lessons. And that was one of the things she asked me.

She's like, obviously, you know, before I asked you this, it's not like we need the money, but are you trying to like, how big are you trying to get with this music thing? And I told her, and she's like, well, you need to start singing because I just wanted to be a guitar player, you know, in the background. She's like, you know, what you're looking for, that's not in just playing. You need to be able to sing too.

So if anything, she's, I mean, she's been the catalyst. As far as support, yeah, she's been super supportive. But just from a, not from a, you need this, and not from a, you know, we don't. need this just from a you're really good and you don't need to be at home playing in the liberal. Yeah. I mean, and I think I think that's a big part of, you know, staying busy finding a passion

and you found one before you even retired. So kudos to, uh, to you and for to Brianna for, you know, nurturing that. When you were in St. Louis, um, how did you, how did you hone your craft? Like when you were still playing, what would you do? Would you go play like joints, different places? would you play with people? I mean, like, how did you feel? Like, when you're in St. Louis, how did you do it?

And then when you got to L.A., like, did you go looking out for studios or people to play with? Like, how does that work? Because you've got to practice with people, but you can't sit in the living room, right? I would say with St. Louis, because I was so new to the guitar,

I pretty much, I learned how to play the blues in St. Louis. You know, it's a really big blues city. There's a guy down there that Jason Cooper. He's actually still there. Fantastic blues guitar player. And he was kind of, you know, the cat, he was a big part of like my blues playing. He was a big part of introducing me to that kind of stuff.

You know, everyone spends their off days and, you know, the nights before off days differently. And for me, I was using it to sharpen my tools, whether that would be playing downtown somewhere, you know, at an open jam or, you know, going to different concerts, networking or, you know, just practicing. So I pretty much, you know, put the cleats down and pick the guitar up and vice versa, you know. And it got to the point in St. Louis where I was, I mean, I had, guitar is the night before games, you know, because what else was I going to do?

Right. Then when I got out to L.A. or San Diego, I actually linked up with another fantastic guitar teacher named Mark Shapiro. That's when I got deeper in the theory, started learning the jazz and those kind of things. And I think the next year, the next year after I got there, we had a 16-week residency at this place called Humphreys. That was the worst decision of my life. Why did it suck?

Just because, I mean, it's, don't get me wrong, it's one thing to show up to a jam session with just a guitar to play for a couple hours and go home. But when it's your event, you're there before everybody else. You bring in the guitar, the amp, the pedal boards, you know, all that kind of stuff. You're on stage the entire time.

And I just think, you know, by the end of the season, I mean, you know how you feel at the end of the season. I didn't feel like getting on that stage. Yeah, how about just, like, standing or sitting? Like, I remember as I got older in my career, Like, I don't want to be sitting. Like, I don't want to go out to dinner and sit. My back's going to start hurting.

I don't want to stand. You're hunched over guitar. Like, it's, you're really doing things that make it harder on you as a player. Yeah. And, I mean, you know, I, uh, for the, definitely on the back end of those jam sessions, I played them sitting down because I'm like, all right, I don't, you know, I'm going to pass out of here. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I couldn't even imagine.

I want to give you a chance to plug the new album coming out in the fall, sincerely is the name of the album. Sincerely. It'll be, you know, a continuation in the vein of my first album. Pretty much in terms of my music, I look at it, I look at it not like, you know, what a musician would do, but I look at my music, like everything I release is like world building, kind of like George Lucas with the Star Wars series.

So, I mean, pretty much moving forward, you know, there's the sincerely which would be like, you know, the things that you think of when you think of like indie rock or any kind of guitar-driven music album, you know, high-fidelity guitars, background vocals, you know, those kind of things, kind of a pristine, you know,

what you think of when you think of studio. Then there will be a line of what I call R& beats, rhythm and beats, because my second instrument is actually like the drum machine. So it's pretty much just a bunch of beats. And then there's going to be, I call it like the journal entry series, but there'll be more like mixtapes,

pretty much combining, like, you know, music from different influences that I've had, like this next one coming up in December will be Teddy Pendergrass focused. So there'll be like two Teddy Pendergrass covers, four originals. There'll be some 808s on there, kind of a merger of the two of the beats and the studio stuff. Well, what's the date? Do you have a date yet or do you know? For Sincerely? Yeah. Let me go ask my manager.

Hold on. Do you have a date for Sincerely? She said September, we haven't picked a day yet. If I have anything to do with it, it'll be one of those first two weeks. Have you considered how this situation will alter how you want to release this thing? Yeah, I was saying, no. I think if anything, because there was pretty much a plan in place for this year. So we're pretty much just rolling with the plan.

And I just think if anything has been emphasized to me during this pandemic, it's that this is a great opportunity to make more music. That's why I'm like, there's got to be some good art coming out of this thing. Yeah, I mean, if you're a focused musician, but I mean, it's the reality of situation, just like if we were both still playing, sure, we would be working out right now. There's a lot of people that would not, you know. But I just think I figure like something of this magnitude that makes you reflect on humanity and society and can we pass the test and your own mortality because we've all thought about getting sick or whatever. And the isolation could breed more creative thought or, you know, more. profound feelings that will make you make good art.

Whereas if you're a football player, it's just all it is a litmus test to see if you give a fuck on your own. But I would argue, I would argue it's the same with music. There are so many artists, I'm sure you probably know some. So many people in general that sit around and bitch and complain about how hard everything is.

And they continue to sit around and complain about it. And it's like, well, are you going to do anything? We're just going to talk about how hard it is for the next, I don't know how many years. I've never, you know, I hate complaining. I know what the fuck I'm doing as a podcaster. I'm just putting out a new podcast every day. I'm not getting, I'm not complaining.

Why not? Taking my art to the next level. I don't care if anybody's listening. Why not? Because that's the problem. Nobody's even listening to this podcast, Joe. I'm just doing it because I love the art form. Nobody's listening today.

But honestly, like, I'm fucking around. But I did when I, when I, and you almost believe me, which is bad, because you're like, man, this operation is kind of. No, no. What I was thinking, Honestly, what I was thinking was, well, I don't know how many people you were, but I just knew, like, as it continues, it's going to grow. Like, why wouldn't it?

Because I'm an artist, bro. I'm taking this time in social isolation and I'm going to elevate my game, okay? So are you writing music, like, with a plan for, are you already thinking, hey, my next album should be 2021 or, like, I've got music. I've got songs written right now, like planned out to the 20,000. So if something was to happen to me, there'd be music coming out until 2020. Oh, here we go.

You just stay home, okay? That's all you got to do. All right, so on stage, whenever you really hit a big, and by the way, I got to say, when I saw my friend on Spotify and I could hear his music, it was one of the proudest moments of my life as a teammate. I was just like, this is amazing. I mean, my buddies on Spotify, and it sounds good. It's real music.

And also, you have good. taste. So like, I like the way you're making music. You've made it to Spotify. Like, it's a real, it's funny, you could watch your friend win a Super Bowl, be on Sports Center, all this stuff. But when I see my buddy doing something outside football, it's like I had Myron Roll on yesterday, who's training to be a neurologist. That blows me away way way more. And he's on, he's on the COVID floor at Mass General. I'm like, this guy, fuck football. This is, this is impressive. I mean, when people succeed outside of ball, it's So kudos to you.

And when you hit it big, will you be more of like a flea from red hot chili peppers where you're jumping around showing off your vertical, you're sliding across the stage, you take your shirt off? Like what's your stage persona going to be? Are you going to be Chris Stapled in where you just stand in the middle of stage with the microphone and play kick ass music? Which one's it going to be? Ah, do I have to just pick between those two?

No, you, I mean, you can pick anywhere on the spectrum. I'll say it would be a hybrid. I would say if I could just put musicians and people together, like, like, Like, it would be like if Teddy Pendergrass could play like Jimmy Hendricks. Nice. That's how I'll perform, you know, because the reality situation is, I mean, and correct me if I'm wrong, there's a lot of high-pitched voices and music these days. There's not really, and I have four Bopo octave ranges actually, but I choose to see. Or flex on them.

How many do I have, you think? Have I had to guess? Yeah. What's the highest you can go? I'm not going to do it on this podcast, dude. I think I can go very high, dude. Okay, but you do talking, okay, so I'm thinking... If I get animated, the voice can get a little hot.

Yeah, so one and a half, two? One and a half or two? Okay, that's a start. I mean, I think I can at least do two albums off that. It's not about, I mean, this is like anything else. It's not about, you know, the potential you have is what you do with it. Hey, you know, some people will say more is not more when it comes to vocal octave range.

It's true. Yeah, I've heard people say that. That's true. Really, is it? Because they're, I mean, you'll get people who try to to show off all four octave ranges in one song and it's like, whoa. Now, we're talking about you starting like, da, da, da, da, you know, continuing to go all that, you know.

I got, like, I don't know what it is. Is it scarier to go out there and get beaten pass rush? Yes. Or to fuck up a chord at a show. You can beat in pass rush. You can play that so quickly with a chord because all you got to do is just do it twice. And now it sounds like you're being like jazzy and edgy. you know you're like that guy yeah look at that you can beat pass rush somebody's getting smack now you

got to have the quarterback uh oh you know what it's way to work to get beat in pass rush a surprising answer to me because I would think like I'd feel way more vulnerable putting my art out there than I would football like if if I write something like I've had to write a little bit if somebody's like this is trash I don't like your writing style like or you know if somebody on like my podcast. I probably take that more personal than somebody being like, where were you on Sunday?

You only had one tackle. Why? Why? Because I mean, I would argue there are people, like even right now, I'm sure that there are out of the thousands of people there are listening,

there's one person that's tuned in. Like, what the fuck is this bullshit? Yeah, no shit. Yeah, definitely. I'm saying that to say, like, everything ain't for everybody. You know what I'm saying? But if by and large,

people don't like it. Okay, well, now we're talking about it. Listen, if an artist, we know there's artists who have put out garbage albums, like even good artists or singles that didn't do well or play bad shows. Like, that's not something that it's for some people. It's not for other people. Like, I feel like if you put your art out there, you're even more vulnerable than you are on the field.

And I guess my rebello to that would be, you are 100% right. First and foremost, yes. Like, it's one. Wage you. as opposed to 53 of you, for sure. But my argument to that would be, or I guess the thing that gave me the courage or whatever, like, you know, I don't just do stuff just to do it.

Like, I think about everything before I do it. Right. I know it's good. So even, I know that there will be a person every now and then that'll come along and say it's not, and that's fine. I mean, there's still billions of people on the planet, and I plan on being global.

So, and I know all, however many billion people are not going to like my music, but I do know a majority of them will. If you had to start a band and you could only pick NFL players with no musical talent and you had 12 months to train them, they were just teammates you're pulling from. Who are you pulling and for what instrument?

Oh my God. You said no musical talent? Yeah, we've got to start from scratch. All right. I'm going to put Joey both. And where does William Hayes fit into this conversation? Usher. No, I'm just...

Showing people to... to their seats. That's it. You can't get a mic. Actually, where will William Hayes fit? Would he have to be on an instrument? I think Will's a drums guy. No doubt.

I was just going to say the drums. Taking out a lot of rage on the drum. Yeah. I definitely put Will on the drum. And I put a mic back there, too. In between songs, just let Will talk. See what it picks up? I'll put, this next one's going to be cheating,

but I'm putting Joey Bucer on piano because, or on keys. because while he does not know how to play keys today, he is in the process of setting up piano lessons. So really? That'd be my ringer. Yeah. I don't know how far it's going to go, but.

There's some breaking news. Is he pretty artistic? Bosa, yeah, Bosa makes, he, apparently used to DJ in college. Like, when it comes to EDM and that kind of stuff, Bosa's the guy. Like, there's been music, like, Tame and Pala, I wouldn't have known about it if it weren't for Joey Bosa. Oh, Joey put you on to Tame.

You put me on the tame. I didn't know MGMT had a little dark age come out till Bosa told me, yeah, when it comes to like the EDM, the party music, Bosa's on it. So basically you played with a white kid that went to college. Is that what you're telling me? I'm saying I play, but Joey actually has really good

musical taste too. Oh, really? So you're putting him on keys? I put him on keys. Okay, well, we need more. We might have a drummer, we might have a drummer, We might have a keyboard guy. I'm just a base player.

I'm trying to think of somebody. Who's someone that's just been so relaxed? They have to be relaxed to play bass? Is that the personality of a bass player? Huh? I mean, not necessarily relaxed, but you need to be, I would consider the base to be,

like, the offensive line of music. Like, if the bass player is really good, that can elevate the music. They're really shitty? You got to get the ball out. If you can. But you get the lead singer hurt. I think Laranitis would be a good base player.

Leonardis could be a definitely good base player. He seems like a really team-oriented person. He cares about what he does. And he's like super low maintenance. Like he's not going to be the dude, you know, in the news for, you know, banging cookers and smoking Coke and the Capitol. No, that's definitely not James' stick. Yeah.

So let's put James on base for now. Okay, James on base. And as the band ages, I can definitely. see him when you guys do your 20-year reunion, you know, in a, in like a bowling shirt back there, not saying much, just wailing away on the bass guitar, can't you? With a hat and sunglasses on. Yes. Yeah, maybe a fedora.

As if he hasn't been bald his entire adult life. Were there any other instruments that I'm missing, Joe? I mean, you probably need another guitar player or a rhythm guitar player or whatever, and background singers. What about Danny Amandola? I don't know, Daniel. Oh, yeah, you didn't play with Danny. Yeah.

Can he see? I think he could be like some sort of a guitar player that jumps around a lot. Oh, for sure. Okay. Yeah, he can have that. Danny and Danny Woodhead. Those are the last two editions, two firecrackers. Does Woodhead play music or no?

I don't think so. Who's got the worst musical taste that you ever played with? What position group has the worst musical taste that you play with? The quarterbacks. Really? Yes. Like I don't think of all the times And this is just, I mean, I know you probably haven't been in the wait room

You know, much with the quarterbacks But every time I've been on offense Every time the quarterback picks the, you know, whatever day Like, oh, the quarterback's going to pick the music today That lift just sucks because the music just fucking sucks. You know what? I don't like the quarterbacks when they pick. I mean, they're definitely going to,

if you had to go Pandora, The first song they're putting in position group to position group, quarterbacks are usually going to throw some like new poppy country in there. Yeah. How many times when I curl the old town road? Well, the old town, listen, the DBs now, the DBs were very problematic for me when it came to the, the ox chord, so to speak. Here's a big hip-hop fan.

But what those guys are playing now in 2020 is not is not hip-hop anymore. So like who, who are you talking about? I'm talking about the hip-hop. I don't even know, dude. And I don't want to do any, it's not a subliminal dis. I, you know, I don't have any clue. But when D.Bs have the, uh, the Aux, they don't even want to listen to like good rap music from like five years ago. They're just like on to the newest thing. And, and then they want the, they want the, they want to dox court every day. Yeah, D.Bs are definitely like a toxic girl from the suburb. They're very toxic. They want to hear the same songs every day. You offend it when someone wants to hear something different. And you're not as pretty, you're not as pretty, you're not as pretty, you're not. I love that analogy. Okay, so you're a big Jimmy Hendrix fan. Is Jimmy Hendrix your favorite artists of all time? I don't know.

Let me think about that. It's probably, okay, it's a tie between Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gay. The overall artist thing between Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gay. With Jimmy, I tried to do this real quick because I know I was going to ask you. Do you have like a top three to five songs? In no particular order. When Cries Mary. One Rainy Wish.

183 that's going to be a shocker that's a long song but I just I don't know it's one of the most creative piece of music I've ever heard what's the song he did with band of gypsies anything I mean who knows that song with the band of gypsies and for number five let's come back to that so you've got no voodoo child no no hey Joe and no all along the watchtower those are like the three that casual casual fans usually would have in there and let's let's just you know Listen, if I had to rank them and I just took those out of my top five because those are kind of legendary to me, even though, you know, all along the Watchtower and Hey Joe or not Jimmy's songs, I would, for me, machine gun live at the Fillmore. I'm going to go burn into midnight lamp. Castle's made of sand.

Okay, that's a good one. I mean, this is a good. We cross over there and then Red House. I like, right. Okay, Red House is going to be about five, too. That's a good one. The same I don't know about Jimmy is that he was actually like, well, I'm not sure people knew,

but he wanted to be a blues player. Like, and people weren't showing up to, you know, fill up arenas to listen to blues tunes. Right. So, like, Red House and even Machine Gun where you can just get some, you know, long blue solos in, it's pretty cool. You're really influenced inspired by Jimmy's

performance at the Monterey Pop Festival, right? Like, you know, what kept you going when things got frustrated with guitar? That performance. I was really about to quit. I'm like, you know, because at the time I was learning how to play the blues, it really all sounds the same after a while, you know, it's a, what, a three-core three-core isn't going to turn around. I mean, you know, and I remember, you know, let me look up, let me look up

this hindrance do it. Everybody keeps talking about. Hey, Joe Lide, the Monterey Pop Festival. I'm like, this is it. You know, this is what I want to be able to play. And that's where he lit his guitar on fire. That is also where he lit his guitar on fire, yeah. Which was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. How about the kid that got that picture? One of the most iconic pictures of all time in music history,

17-year-old kid just happened to stay a little bit longer and caught that picture. That's playing. Unbelievable, dude. Yeah, no, it is unbelievable. Social isolation, social distancing, okay, before I let you go. How are you handling? that the mental health aspect is going to start, I think, coming more into the forefront now as people have been sitting in the house for a month or two. Like, what do you do to keep

yourself in that routine? And if you, and if anybody's listening is going through something, like, what would you tell them? I am not the person to ask, because this is pretty much how I live. I mean, this is how I live. Besides going to a movie theater or playing a show, like, when this is all over, this is how I'm going to live. Like, this is how I was living before it happened. on a serious note. And I mean, I've told close friends this, too. I mean, I think this is a great time. And I mean, you and I both know, you know, with the kids, you don't have as much free time as

other people. But I would say, you know, take some time to just really, this is going to sound so cliche. But just think about your life. I mean, think about where you thought you would be when you were five, where you are now, where you want to go. Because, you know, and everything in between, what's helping you get there, what's not? What are your motivations? You know, are your motivations pure?

Or are you just trying to, you know, validate your existence on the planet? At the end of the day, you're going to be an average of the five people you spend the most time around. You know, those kind of things. Are the things that are good to you, maybe not good for you and vice versa. So I think self-reflection has been good. You make a good point. Like, if anything, if you're not working on you right now, you're not working, you're wasting this, this fucked up opportunity. It's, I mean, nobody wants to be sitting in the house and watching the news with this terrible stuff going.

going on and people dying and all the uncertainty. But if you're going to be stuck in the house, you might as well work on yourself. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I feel like if you got the time, invest some of it to yourself, why not? I mean, some people would argue, like, that's why that's one of the reasons why the outbreak has gotten so bad in the States.

You know, when you're in a capitalist economy and you start to feel like, you know, the company's needs are above yours and you feeling like shit going to work every day. Now you infecting other people, like, I mean, people are legitimately afraid to call in sick to you, you know, these days. Yeah, no, no doubt about it. But I mean, like talking about the, what I think about some people would say working on yourself, you know, on the surface that could be selfish.

If you have a family and you're sitting there, you know, working on you, it's one of those things, though, to me, you, you know, when you get on an airplane, they give you the brochure. It says, secure your flotation device or your breathing mask first. You know, I, you can't help your family and you can't be the best Joe Barksdale, I can't be the best Chris Long and vice versa down the line if you're not working on you first. And so I think that like, you know, devoting a little bit of time to yourself in the worst thing in the world. I think it's necessary. I feel like, I mean, actually, I know it's necessary, you know, because like you said, like if you're not working on yourself, now you're at home miserable all the time, you're making

everybody else at home, like you're not helping out then either. And I mean, and a lot, healthy you, you know, around, you know, five, 10, 20 years down the road, no matter what condition is going to be better than a depressed dead you. You know, we've been mourning for the last 10, 20 years. Yeah. So, I mean, and these are the reality of the situation, you know, it's the same thing with eating healthy. You keep eating like crap every day.

You're going to die. You keep, you know, letting the crap go around and you prank every day. I need to work on that last thing, I guess, because all I've been doing is eating. And I'm not bodybuilding. So last question before I let you go. Where is Joe Barksdale the musician in 10 years? And if you could play at any venue, where would you play? Oh, either.

This is super easy. Selling out to Wembley Stadium in London, playing a live version of my first ever album that I took down. There we go, dude. All right, I'll be there. Wembley, 20. Wembley in London, 10 years, 2030? 2030.

Yeah, that's the goal. Like, I remember. on bass guitar and a bowling shirt and a fedora and sunglasses. James, you did great. Base sounds awesome. Get off the stage. Hey, Joe, I appreciate you, man. Thanks for being so open about everything.

And I'll be keeping my ear to the streets to hear all Joe Barks and those new music. Again, sincerely coming out, fall 2020. September, he checked his manager. You heard it here. September 2020. Check out the single out right now, Black Magic, which is awesome. best of the family. Keep kicking ass, dude. Thanks, man. Same to you. So that was Joe Barksdale. Obviously, somebody who's not afraid to talk openly and outwardly about his issues that he's dealt with and

his struggles. And I think that's a tremendous example to other football players who might be going through the same thing. Listen, you don't have to talk about anything. But if you do, as Joe mentioned, you're giving some other people listening inspiration to maybe seek help or talk more openly about it and that can that can do wonders so appreciate joe obviously a good football player doing a lot of other stuff off the field even better one thing being the music one more time the album is sincerely it'll be out in September this fall per his manager shout out to Brianna. That's about all I know about it, but his music sounds pretty good to me. And I think he's on he's on the right track. I'm excited for him. Let's get to the mailbag, shall we? Mailbag after dark,

if you know what I mean. Okay, NFL fashion advice. That's the handle. And it's fitting because their AVI I is a picture of the creamsicle buccaneers. Uniform. which the buck should have reanimated, if you will, in the recent days. But they opted for what was an improvement, but maybe not a home run. It was more just like getting back to what they were with a little bit of an updated flair. Anyways, NFL Fashion Advice asks, third and six, passing down, you have to make a D-line of just players that you played with. I mean, I was the sole left end in rushing situations on pretty much every team I was on, other than the Patriots, they rush me on the right.

I would put myself at left end. I would put Robert Quinn at right end. Robert Quinn had 19 sacks his best year in St. Louis. He was an absolute monster, and nobody saw. And he continues to get paid. He'll end up with North of 100. Aaron Donald, everybody knows him. Unfortunately, me, Rob and Aaron never had our highest successes at the same time.

You know, by the time AD was on our D-line, I was hurt, you know, IR, that sort of thing. And, you know, Rob's year where he had 19, imagine what he would have had if AD was on that line as well. So, and then Fletcher Cox, of course. So that D-line would be me, A.D., Fletch, and Rob Quinn and I would let AD and Rob Quinn rush together me and Fletch rush really well together miss you Fletch somebody asked me nearly an impossible question on the surface who wins in kind of a mortal combat situation a little setup like that some weaponry limitations but it's Arnold from Predator and Rambo from First Blood two of my favorite movies and similar in some ways

both of these guys playing kind of last man standing, King of the Mountain, trying to stave off like a villain. The only difference here, as much as I think that Rambo was hungry, his character was great, he set up a lot of cool traps for the sheriff and his posse. Arnold was doing the same fucking thing to an alien, who was presumably eight and a half feet tall, had like an eight-pack shot.

laser beams and could see you in the dark. And if you were bleeding, which wouldn't work so well in first blood, he could find you. So it's a little bit different than staving off Denahey up on the mountain. And on top of that, Arnold was in the jungle. And now Arnold had a crew. He had Jesse the Body Ventura, who got a basketball-sized hole in his chest. That was over quick. Now, another thing was Predator. He waged like mental warfare. You didn't know how to take him on.

And Arnold ultimately figured him out that you had to draw him in and set the traps. But like his buddy, Billy, if you remember Billy, was out on that log bridge cutting his fucking face open with his bowie knife. that's how crazy the predator made people and that tactic was definitely not working for billy billy you didn't even you didn't even get to see how billy got it um so yeah i'm gonna go arnold totally different opponent same kind of setup uh plus he was doing them in the jungle so i got arnold there no disrespect to uh to stalone texting with big letters another good question from texting with big big letters. He says, I'm in this situation where I've got a month to build a house. I've got to pick four teammates, one from each team, including my college team, and one coach. And we got a month

to do it. Okay, so the coach, I'm going to go Jeff Fisher. Jeff Fisher makes everything feel relaxed and okay. There'll be some tense moments. We're trying to get this house up in a month. I know from experience that can't happen. But Fish is going to make us feel good about it. Eugene Monroe at UVA. He is, you know, an emerging presence in the cannabis world. He will bring the good weed. He's also a chill dude. He's down with manual labor.

He was a hard worker as a player. Robert Quinn, maybe, from St. Louis. We could wrap the night with a nice bottle of crown apple and pass it around. Rob would bring the crown apple. Also, Rob has a lot of money. He keeps getting paid and we're going to need supplies. I'm trying to build a nice house and it's not going to be specky. Ninkovich, okay, is going to be my guy in New England.

Niko can get under the hood of a muscle car and like fix it and shit like that. So anybody you can do that, I figure they can probably hammer some nails. You know, I worked masonry. That was my one manual labor job in high school, Kruatoff masonry in Charlottesville, Virginia. I was all grunt work, no skill. Ninko's a guy who probably knows how to use like a level various tools, things like that, things I can't do so well. And then finally, I guess we have the Eagles left.

That's going to be Donnie Jones. Now, bear with me. Donnie Jones is not only cynical, dry, the type of sense of humor that really gets me through the day. Donnie's also like a borderline boomer. And when you're a borderline boomer, I just assume that you just missed the cutoff for being a young enough person that you didn't get to develop these manual labor skills. All this stuff that my parents know how to do, their generation, Donnie probably knows it, but he's not old enough to be a liability on the job site. So Donnie is going to be my guy from the Eagles. So yeah, that's who I got.

I got. I got Jeff Fisher, Eugene Monroe, Robert Quinn. Rob Ninkovich and Donny Jones. We're going to build a house. Okay. How Much Yomensch asks, Hotel with Best Mini Bar on the road for an NFL game. I never had a mini bar.

I never even looked at a mini bar when I was on the road. I didn't drink, even on a two-day trip. I wasn't a have a beer, have a glass of wine, guy, even at dinner. Like, I did not drink around games. So the second question he asked, is percentage of players who tip housekeepers. I think that should be higher.

I'm going to guess it's below 10%, below 20%, which is actually bad when you think about it because I think housekeepers deserve to be tipped as much as anybody. It's kind of gross what they have to do, and you have no idea who you're cleaning up after. A lot of people are kind of disrespectful. And there was a time in my life. I'm not trying to be holier than now.

I was pretty messy, and I didn't tip. Now I cleaned the room before I leave. leave, at least surface clean it. And if it's messy, I do tip. So I'm probably a 50% tip around housekeeping. Just being honest, I don't know what the judgment's going to be here. But that's kind of where I'm at there. K. Hoffman asks, what would I tell the 10 years ago version of myself?

And this is one of those like, yeah, advice to your younger self thing. Like the Players Tribune, letters to yourself, very dramatic. I wouldn't probably tell them anything. You know, there's no substitute for experience. So, like, that's the whole reason when older people tell you shit your whole life. You don't listen until you have to or until you've learned, you know, on your own timeline and shot clock. So I really, not to be, like, weird to dodge the question, but other than maybe, hey, don't try to stretch leverage on Phil Lodholt in the opener in 2014 because somebody's going to roll up into your ankle and effectively end your career in St. Louis. or hey don't take the inside move in Green Bay because Robert Quinn is going to fall into

your leg and you're going to break your tibia like shit like that maybe I'd tell myself something like that but I can't tell myself anything deep or like trajectory altering there's no substitute for experience and plus if I tell the dude from 10 years ago who's like a second year in the league dealing with immense pressure you know trying to make it in the NFL as a high draft pack high draft pick that sort of thing playing a really violent game if i tell him what i know now he might just fucking walk because honestly what i know now is that it wasn't that important when you're sitting um on this side of it and you're out of the game like yeah you miss the game sometimes there's going to be a point when you retire that you're going to have to grapple with your ego and like whatever little

legacy you have as a player but what you realize pretty quick from watching a season of football is that doesn't fucking matter. The show goes on. And you should get out while you're healthy and while you're safe and once you get paid. But it's easier said than done. And football does have an addictive aspect to it. So I don't know what my advice to a younger me would have been. Probably not much.

You got to go learn on your own. Okay. Y'all have a good one. We'll be back tomorrow morning with a really, really good. interview. I'm really excited about this one. I'm just going to tease it for now. I'll tell you about it later in the day. Y'all take care.