Green Light with Chris Long - Joe Thomas On Myles Garrett’s Dominance, Todd Monken & The Cleveland Browns | Full Interview

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Joe Thomas and Beau meet up at Super Bowl LX in San Francisco and talk Myles' Garrett's dominance, the Cleveland Browns and Joe Thomas' snap streak. Joe had a front row seat to the start of Myles Garrett's career as they both played in Cleveland and he details the aspects of Myles' game that make him near unstoppable. Joe gives props to Joe Thuney, the NFL's inaugural protector of the year, describes mentoring in the NFL and the mentor-mentee relationships he had with the Browns and gives an outlook for Cleveland football after watching Shedeur Sanders and the Browns in 2025. (00:00) - Intro (02:20) - Myles Garrett' Dominance (09:35) - Mentorship in the NFL (15:30) - Joe Thuney, Protector of the Year (22:05) - Joe Thomas' Pass Pro Technique (28:30) - Todd Monken & The Cleveland Browns (33:30) - Joe Brady & The Buffalo Bills (37:40) - Mason Graham's Rookie Year (39:00) - Taking Care Of Your Body Post-Retirement Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline presented by Zone Nicotine and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open: ‪[phone]‬ Head to https://nicokick.com/zone and use code GL20 for 20% off at checkout. Check out Green Light's ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where you can catch all the latest GL action: Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's going through your mind as a left tackle facing a guy like Miles Gair? Do you remember in 2017 what he was like as a rookie? He's a monster, right? Like immediately? Immediately you knew that he was going to change the game. You know, you got the guards in the center. The center's the easiest position is by far the easiest. The fact that they even get paid a salary is kind of ridiculous.

That one's for you, Kelsey. Yeah. But he's making up for it now. I think Todd's the right guy for the right time with the Browns where they are. If you don't have a quarterback, if you've got a young quarterback, well, I want a head coach that can develop that position because that's the most important human being in the franchise. What's up, everybody? It's Bo Allen. I'm sitting here in the Greenlight HQ,

presented by Bet, M.J., one of my favorite players of all time, kind of my middle school icon. I've told you that. Joe Thomas, legendary Badger, legendary NFL football player. Joe, how are we doing? I'm doing great, man. I'm excited to be here. You guys got the primo spot here at the Super Bowl, right on the beaches of whatever the hell, ocean that is. right there looking out at the Golden Gate Bridge in Alcatraz.

Hopefully we don't get in too much trouble here in the next couple of days where they're stick us over there in Alcatraz. Throw away the key. Joe, I'm dying, man. You just flew in today. You come up. You got a Cabela's carry-on full of Hall of Fame beef.

That's right, baby. It's incredible. You go everywhere. I mean, if there's one thing I need in life every day besides maybe some other things. A zone? Besides the zone, it would be my Hall of Fame beef. sticks, my jerky. And it's cool because people don't want to see me anymore. They just say like,

hey, are you bringing that whole fam jerky or the hall of fame jerky or the hall of you're bringing that meat? You're bringing your meat, dude. I want to see it again. That Hall of Fame meat. That's right. But we talked about that. Actually had the opportunity to interview you right before the draft, which was in Green Bay, which is so cool. And we talked a lot about your meat and just excited to have you back on. And I'm sure we'll talk plenty about your meat. But we have a lot of other exciting things to discuss too. One thing, dude, I got to bring this up just because this is so much fun to watch all year. Obviously, you're a Browns legend, you know, protecting the quarterback's blind side. So I'm sure you know a lot about, you know,

what it's like to play against a guy like Miles Garrett, man, and watch the honors last night and obviously got the sack record and everything like that. And just want to kind of talk to you about what's going through your mind as a left tackle facing a guy like Miles Garrett. Do you remember in 2017 what he was like as a rookie? He's a monster. Right? Like immediately? Immediately you knew that he was going to change the game. and the only question was, you know, is he going to be healthy? Right? Because that's the big question.

A lot of times with some of these young guys, they come in and they're incredible, but can they stay healthy? Because he had already figured out the speed of the game. He already had the size, the strength, all the things you need to be great. And then it was just, all right, how great is he going to be? Yeah. So you're not really too surprised about him eclips on that record. So when we were in OTAs, I practiced like, you know, four or five times the whole year

because I was banged up and I was coming off a knee surgery. but I remember he was rushing up the field and this is just OTAs, right? And he just ran past the quarterback. I just pushed him past the quarterback. It was just like a little out route to the right. And he turned on the burners. So the receiver caught the out and then beat the cornerback

and runs up the field. And so now he's running down the sideline. Little receiver, pretty fast. He's got about a 20-yard head start over where Miles is and he's only got to go 60 yards to get in the end zone. And so he starts scooting to the end zone and Miles turns on the jets from the backfield behind the quarterback.

and he ran him down like a cheetah running down to a gazelle or something like that and caught him before he got to the end zone and I remember we showed that the next day in the film room like you do a lot of times team meetings the next day you highlight hey these are the things guys did great during practice these are things that hey you socked play better or I'm going to cut your ass kind of deal and everyone put that up there and it was kind of like the head coach says this guy is going to be special and we're like well thanks for telling us yeah he just ran on a receiver with a 20-yard He's starting he's 280 pounds. You know, we talked, we've been talking about meat.

Like, we've got to talk about his physique a little bit. Like, dude, if I could be any NFL football player, I think it would be Miles Garrett. He's got that blend of just, you know, pure size, power, quickness, explosiveness. But the way he can bend and Chris and I talk about this a lot of the podcast is his ankle dorsiflection. Dude. Do you notice that in offensive linemen? Like, it's such a small thing, but just that ability to bend kind of, and finish at the top of rush, I think is what makes him so special. to you what like what is you know what kind of creates that ability to turn the corner and finish at the top of a rush so this is something that i've been preaching for a decade because everybody talks when you used to hear about scouting offensive linemen it's like can they bend their hips or their knees and like no it's your ankles because if you can't bend your ankles you can't bend your knees and you can't bend your hips and you can't get into that position not only does miles have incredible ankle dorsiflection so basically the top of the shoelaces can almost touch his shins yeah but

But he can do that to the side as well. Like his ability to have the full cleat in the ground and then have his shin basically at a 45 degree angle outside of his body allows him to have really good friction and pressure into the ground so he's not like falling or slipping. But he can create force at that angle. Also about two feet off the ground because now he can twist his torso in his upper body

and lower himself and he's running at full speed. And that's why he's such a difficult person to defend because one, he can run you over. Right? So as a tackle, you're like, holy shit, I don't want to get embarrassed to get it run over. So I'm sitting hard already and I'm anchoring

because if he turns out into a borrush, I need to be ready to be able to sit on that. But that kind of slows you down. And so when he does choose to rush up field and he dips that shoulder, there's not much of an area for you to strike as a tackle. And it's like this high off the ground. So now you're trying to move full speed

and get low and you're trying to strike a spot that the man is running 4, 540, running the hoop like you see the defensive lineman like you guys used to do and he's this high off the ground so he's just the impossible matchup Joe I love it man we it took us all 30 seconds to get into hardcore physical physiological everybody quickly unsubscribed yeah yeah yeah no they did that when we were talking about your beer yeah but I think the thing like you know we talk about what a good talent he is and obviously like you know we could talk about that for ages but I think it's so interesting to me is you know he had 23 sacks. What separates a guy

like Miles Garrett from another freak athlete who is having like eight sacks here in the NFL? You know, is it that, you know, kind of, I think you just kind of talked about it, the rare blend of athleticism, but there's got to be some stuff like that's not physical too, you know what I mean? Yeah, I would say, you know, studying

sacks as much as I did, I'm sure you did as well, though you didn't really do the sacking all that often. No, I was in their duo box. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you were doing the sacking on the offensive lineman's face. Yeah, just, Hall of Fame meat Sacks What else are you got on

Hall of Fame sacks over here But when you study it You realize that like Less than half of sacks are actually I beat my man I got to the spot And I sacked the quarterback More than half are effort sacks

Because you just keep playing You're able to continue that rush You're not quitting And then you get there And you're able to bring the quarterback down Your buddy who's coming up the middle Maybe moves a quarterback off the spot He gets him to

to roll out of the pocket. Like, it's just those second effort plays that get you those numbers that Miles had. I agree, man. And I think, I'm glad you mentioned that because sack is kind of like a team defensive stat in a way, you know? Like, I always, we talk about this in the podcast a lot, but like, if you want to get a sack as a defense alignment, not only do you need to beat the guy in front of you, you also need to kind of beat the quarterback.

And so, you know, he can roll out of the pocket. He can escape. And these guys are freak athletes, too. So you need to have a good pocket. And so to me, I'm curious kind of what you. your thoughts are on this. It's so interesting that Miles Garrett has this sack record on a team that didn't have a great year. You know what I mean? Like, they're playing from behind. Teams are running the ball more. Like, it's not like they get up on teams early and they have to have to pass

the ball. So, I mean, I just want to kind of point that out because I've just been in awe of Miles Garrett and the season he's had. Yeah, I try to tell people all the time, like, it's hard enough to get a sack just if you're back and forth or if you're a 500 team. But to be on a team that stinks, that is always behind in the third and fourth quarter pretty much. Yeah. And the other team is just not going to put themselves in harm's way at all. They're just going to throw the ball or run the ball. And when they throw it, it's quick throws because they know that they don't want to allow

a game-changing play on a deep pass. And so for me, playing on a team that sucked that was always throwing in the third and fourth quarter in two minutes and hang on the ball. It sucks. It's the opposite. Yeah. But like when we had those wins, it was like you're on easy street because you know no matter what, I can get beat.

and the quarterback's going to get rid of it. So what Miles has done is incredible, but to your point about how Russian coverage have to work together, the Browns have had some really good coverage players since five, six years. And like having those lockdown corners is huge because those moments on third and eight when they actually have to convert.

And those easy throws are not available. That's when now all of a sudden your rush can live up to that potential because the quarterback's hanging out of the football and he's trying to make a play but there's nobody to throw to right away. And then you can get him down. And Miles did that a bunch.

But, I mean, you touched on this also. And I think this is such an interesting kind of thing for me is obviously an incredible achievement for Miles Garrett. I want to shout you out because, you know, you had, I think one of the most impressive, what it's called a believe to be an NFL record because no one really knows for sure, which was 10,363 consecutive snaps. I can't imagine that that's been a clips. But, you know, we'll call it a record here because I'm not going to go watch every single snap. But like what's it like to be, you know, to kind of have a record like that, a huge individual achievement on a team that isn't having team success? Does that kind of change the dynamic of that?

You know, are you, obviously you're very proud of yourself and it's a huge individual accomplishment. But at the end of the day, like, as a football player, you want to win games. So does that kind of make it feel any different? Or what's the approach? Yeah. So for me, I find happiness in winning as a team, right? Because the fun of team sports and football especially on the trenches. Guy, humble king.

Think about this, right? What we do every day is we get across from other 300-pound men that are gross and sweaty and snoddy and we smash our heads against each other wearing 15 pounds of pads, sweating our ass off in a miserable environment, and we never get a moment where we catch a touchdown. We never run for a first down and win the game. We're never the heroes. And so the joy in football for linemen is when you win and you get to celebrate with your brothers that you love, right?

And so not having that really sucks. but like that lineman mentality I think of like servanthood to like the other people on the team is something that has always made me happy and so like individually making the Hall of Fame obviously I'm proud of that

but I'm more proud when I see guys that I feel like I've been able to help and I like kind of sacrificed a little bit of my own time or whatever it is like Joel Botoni who's my lifeguard has having an amazing Hall of Fame career and he was my like my guy

my little boy my young guy When he was a rookie and he came in and he started next to me and I basically like try to download my brain into him with my process and how I saw things. And to see him having success, it's like watching your kids, right? You're always more proud of your kids than you. And so I think like that record, the 10,000, 363 individually like, okay, that's great. 10 and a half years, never missed a play. That's awesome.

I have pride in that. But the reason I have pride in that is because the reason I did it and I went through like the bad injuries that I had and I just kept going out on that. field is because I was committed to trying to help the guys around me. Right? I wanted to be out there because I knew that if I was there, it was going to give them the best chance to live up whatever dreams they have, their goals of new contracts. You know, they want to, you know, make the team and you know, stick around and put bread on their table for their family and have that success. And so seeing that number reminds me

of that sacrifice that I made for those teammates and it gives me a lot of pride. Dude, that's a that's a very humble. And I mean, I, I, I, you know, you don't get a lot of love as a noseguard sometimes. Yeah, you know what it's like, man. But I get most out of the game is like, listen, we never played together. I played against you and, you know, kind of have that camarader of that connection. And I feel the same way that you do about Joel Betone, about like Vita Vaya and guys when, you know, you're a vet. And you kind of see that one moment after maybe it's a couple games rookie year or their second year in where it clicks.

And they're playing really well. And you're like, I help, you know, kind of create that a little bit. I don't have kids like you, Joe, but you feel like a proud pop a little bit. You do, totally. And when I was in my last year, I got hurt halfway through the season, Miles was a rookie. And it really gave me an opportunity like, now I don't have to worry about prepping myself for the game.

And I can help Miles. And so I would spend time with him every week, like breaking down the tackle he was going to go against. I'd watch film. And I'd tell him like, all right, this is what this guy does well. This is what he doesn't do well. This is how you set up what you're doing in the first half to beat him when the game is on the line in the second half.

with like the move that he's not good at handling. And you've been waiting on it. And that's how I broke down guys I went against always. It was like, what's his got to have it move? Right? You know, like when you go against Dwight Freeney, everybody knows him for his spin move.

But it's not like he was out there spinning every time. Yeah, he set it up at that speed. He would set it up. And then it would be third and eight. And his got to have it was, okay, here comes the spin. And so trying to give that mindset to miles and then now seeing him,

obviously, like, set the world on fire. It's like, prop, pop a moment a little bit there too. You took your lungs for that. It's cool you mentioned that too because I mean, I talked about this before, but with Kelsey, he was a center. He was weak against the things that I was strong against, which is power and bullrushing, and I was weak against, you know, his hard outside zone reaches and I had to play his frontside A gap. And, you know, when you work with guys, you kind of talk to when you're a defensive lineman, you talk to an offensive lineman and learn about the techniques that they're trying to defeat you with

and how they're approaching different blocking schemes. You can really gain a lot. So that's a cool, not all vets are like that, man, especially Hall Famers. From T-shots to game-winning goals and buzzer-beating baskets, make every moment unforgettable with a parley boost token. Activate your parley boost token on any sports parlay, and you'll receive a bigger payout if your parley wins. Here's how it works.

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Miles Garretton deserves all the recognition in the world, but there's another new award that I want to talk to you about because I think you probably, you know, I think you deserve it 100%. That's the protector award, right? That's what's called Protector of the Year award, which is the new award that they're giving out offensive linemen. Joe Tee over here, Joe Tee, Joe Tuni, got the award for the first time,

which is really cool. So I guess like, I don't know, what are your thoughts? Offensive linemen don't typically get a lot of recognition. Are you happy to see that they're being honored at NFL honors? Yeah, I think it's cool because NFL honors is kind of a recent award show. The NFL has done a great job understanding the popularity of the sport and ways that they can uplift individuals in the game and give them their moment. And, you know, make fans that not just fans of their team, fans of that player, right? You give them that moment so they can be on stage and talk about whatever they want to talk about and, you know, make that connection.

So I think it's really cool that the linemen, the guys that, you know, never have an opportunity to win anything else, have a chance to get their shine, right? Right. And for Tooney, who's done it for a long time, been one of the greats in the game. I think it's so cool for him to be able to get that moment, get that shine and those flowers and be able to celebrate with his family. It's a really cool thing that they're doing. When we were playing, they had like the NFLPA awards. I don't know if they still have that. I was the two-time like All Fundamental Line Min Award. So that was like my little like, I actually won something. But I think it's cool that now like the NFL. has taken on that role to be able to promote a lineman.

And, you know, not that we're going to do anything differently as linemen. Like, we still just are going to go do our job. Yeah. But it's cool to have that moment. You guys are some flowers, too. And I think the most, I played with Joe. I was in New England. I was injured on IR and all that.

But he was, you know, out there and we, you know, got a lot of reps against each other in practice. I played against him. His athleticism to me is incredible. But I think, you know, the thing that is so impressive to me is, you know, he's an interior offensive lineman. He's played guard. He's historically a guard and at times during his career, in pivotal moments when the team needed it, you know, in Kansas City and most recently in Chicago, he bumped out and played left tackle.

You're a guy who played, what, 10,000, 367 snaps straight at left tackle. I was wondering if you could kind of tell the average NFL O. Lyman fan how hard it is to play out of position like that. Do you think you would have been able to bump inside and play left guard if you had to? Well, let me tell you a brief story here. We were hanging out before the Merlin Olson Hall of Fame luncheon in San Francisco, and I was chatting with Anthony Munoz, and this actually came up this morning because he said towards the end of his career, they had a guard that got hurt, and so he bumped inside,

and he was talking about how nice it was because he's like three quarters of the plays, I'm not blocking anybody. I put one hand up over here, and I check and make sure the tackle doesn't get beat, and then I go jogged to the ball. And so I think bumping inside is not too bad. I'm not on it. But bumping outside, like Tuney had to do, is hard. It's such a different game.

You know, when you're inside, it's usually, you know, three on two, basically. You know, you got the guards in the center. Center's the easiest. Centers is by far the easiest. Like, the fact that they even get paid a salary is kind of ridiculous. Tell you, that one's for you, Kelsey. Yeah. He's making up for it now.

No word. But, like, you got two defenders, typically in a four-three team. Like you're you're working together, which that's the challenge of being garden center. Like you have to make sure that you're fitting together hand and glove with those guys and your eyes are on the right linebackers and things like that. But when you move on the outside, now you have to play in space by yourself. Right. You know, which is where I like to be because I didn't want anybody fucking with me and like getting

in my way, step it on my feet or anything. Yeah. But for a guard who's not used to like being one on one almost every play. And having to cover a lot of ground is hard. Yeah. Like as a guard, you take a couple kicks and you're in. position after the ball's set point is like right almost there yeah for a tackle i have to move at least five or six yards before i'm even close to where i need to be and then i got to decide do i keep kicking

or do i slide or whatever um and so having to cover that extra space is really hard because the first one and a half seconds of the snap you're moving as fast as you fucking kind to get backwards and then now it's now you're playing guard so you have to be a great athlete like joe is to be able to make that transition and just being committed to change you know changing your technique that you work on every single day the fundamentals of football are what creates great football players you know i think you would attest to that but you know it's it's very hard to take a set that you've practiced in one specific spot you know for your entire life really and then all of a sudden hey you're playing jared verse and the in the rams who are a very good uh defensive front seven with a lot of talent a physical

player and and you're playing left tackle so uh i i personally think that that's incredibly impressive and I'm you know glad that he got that award i think kind of along those lines one guy i thought might get that protector of the year award is uh trent williams you know we're here in san francisco and i played against trent a bunch when he was with the um the uh commanders at redskins at the time he's with the commanders and it's been incredibly impressive to me how he's managed to keep that blend of athleticism and physicality still at 37 years old like do you just watch that and you're like, how the fuck do you do that? I have no idea how he's doing it, man.

The wheels had fallen off at 34 for me. After 11,000 straight snaps. Yeah, but I mean, Trent's, I think, only a year younger than me or maybe two years, but the fact that he's still playing at the high level that he is, and he was always a way better athlete, more, like, physically dominant than I was. He was a killer. He still is a killer. And I just, I'm blown away because, like, well, you saw me today.

I'm wearing a back brace because standing is kind of hard these days, you know. And meanwhile, Trent's out there dominating people just the same way he did 10 years ago. And there's just some people, my old strength coach Evan Marcus used to say, Some guys have all the luck. They're just built a little bit differently. I see, I'll never forget. I saw, I think it was a clip of him racing some guys back in Oklahoma when he was trained. And they were doing like three cone and short shuttle.

And he was moving with the linebackers and running backs. They said that when he was in Washington with Deshawn Jackson, they did like a 10-yard push-up start. and he beat him. Holy shit. I mean, if there's a guy who's going to do it. Even if it was close. I'm in our athletes too, folks. We're people too.

Yeah, we're people too. We're not just big sweaty Neanderthals. So one thing, I mean, we talked a little bit about just kind of, I don't want to get super super nitty gritty into the technique details, but I was up with C-Long chobbing up late the other night. And we were talking about you and I think you guys played against each other a couple time. Chris just mentioned the set that you had that he basically said that you perfected it. And it was so vertical, which I think was a little atypical, you know, during that period

of time. Like how much importance did you put on just having the same exact set every, every fucking time? And can you, like, how hard is it to just do this, you know, something that looks so simple right on such a consistent basis? You know, like what went into that process? That's all I worked on. Yeah. That's all I thought about.

Yeah. That's what I dreamed about when I was sleeping because it's everything. I knew that if I could win the set, so I got off right when the tip of that football started moving. So I'm beating the defensive lineman no matter what. Like he's not moving faster than me because by the time that tip of that football moves, I'm moving. You're staring at it. Yeah. And so even though Miles is the best get off in the game, like he's still looking at the football, where I'm listening to the cadence and the rhythm, where I'm telling my body to go before I even hear Hutt.

Yeah. And I knew that if I could get back quickly with the exact same speed, cadence, balance, and get to the spot before the defensive lineman would, I'd win every time. Yeah. The only sets I ever lost was because I was maybe a little off balance or was a little bit late. Yep. Because if you beat the guy to the spot, there's nothing he can do because your shoulders are square.

And with a vertical set, like, I'm not going to get beat by a twist. Yeah. Because that's why you vertical set. Yeah. Did you drag that inside arm a lot too? If I had a three technique or if there was a threat of that, then I would potentially do that. But typically I was just getting back and I knew that especially playing next to guard like Joel. Yeah.

Like he was going to protect me. I was going to protect him with my verticalness. Yes. Not sure if it's a word. My verticalness. Wisconsin education's pretty much. But that set fast, square, low with my weight over my inside leg. I would squeeze my inside hip flexor.

You said, don't get too nerdy. have to. I would squeeze my big toe on my right side like it was a talent. I would turn my foot in just a little bit. So my balance was perfect and my weight was perfectly balanced over my inside leg and I was engaged and I could do anything because I could redirect inside inside. I was already square so it's hard to beat somebody inside when you're square. If the guy went up the field, my weight was already on the inside so I could quickly open my outside leg and then use my hands and push and pass. So there's no way that you could possibly lose and you were low enough in that spot that if they tried to bullrush you, you could just sit and take one hop and it was over.

And I think, I mean, just going back real quick talking about that guard set, one thing that always kind of stuck out to me is when you have those tackles that do that vertical set, sometimes you can get a seam, you know, in that big gap. And so if you have a big mall or guard that's kind of flat setting a little bit, you can get them with like TE games or, you know, like maybe an outside move late. So is that kind of a thing, too, where, you know, as offensive linemen, obviously, like you said, you've got to work hand and glove with your compadres on the O line. And you guys kind of talk and say, like, hey,

you need you to settle more vertical this week because you got a real penetrator, a three technique and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, you go through all that stuff during the week, and you spend a lot of time, like, when we would do pass rush. We'd do one-on-one pass rush, and then we'd have, you know, the twist pass rush. But then we'd also do scout pass rush, where the scout team would be running the blitzes and then the stunts that the other team was going to run.

And so just having enough reps with the guy next to you, knowing that, okay, I can just feel without even seeing where my guard is, that I'm deep enough where now I just have to man it and I have to stick with my end if they're running an ET. I also know like okay I see my guy rushing up the field he's kind of stuttering his feet. I can feel now with my inside hand that they're coming with the TE and I know my guard he's going to protect me and he's going to take that he's going to take that space away and punch him out. So it's just a matter of getting all those reps so it becomes just second nature. Your brain goes to the default mode. That's what's so hard about Oline man. You have your guys and

But, you know, having a lot of depth that Alain is so important, too, because you get into that, you know, it's a physical position. And guys get hurt. You get so comfortable having your guys as soon as you get a new guy in there, you're like, oh, man. Yeah. This is going to be fun. I'm just telling people, creatine has changed the game for me. Cognition is a big part of it, too. It's not just like, hey, you know, getting jacked or that sort of thing.

We're all jacked. You're jacked, bro. Thank you. I appreciate it. Say it back. But I'm jacked. You're jacked as well. Oh, there it is.

Thanks. He is jacked. He is more jacked than almost anybody here. The guy lifts the most. But creatine, he looks like he's on a lot of creatine. A lot. You know, do you take creatine? How many grams do you take?

I take seven. I take seven grams a day. And they're good for your brain. I talked about the cognition, really important. Benefits for recovery, strength. Cognition, staying active as you get older. I think everybody should try creatine. and you know I'm not a doctor but you don't need to be one to be slanging creatine you got a doctor

um you know why did I stop when I start taking it I really do honestly have a hard time keeping my weight on I've always had a hard time keeping my weight on I just run I run like a machine that's like a ton of RPM so I'm like always burning calories and shit creatine helps me keep my muscle mass on which helps me stay in the gym stay strong into my 40s which is a whole you guys will see it fucking sucks. But creatine helps me there. And like even in the afternoon when I got some brain fog or whatever, I might take some creatine, like half my dose, you know, and I really do feel clear-headed after I take it. I have introduced people to creatine. Yeah, I've introduced, I try to get my wife to start taking creatine. She's taking some creatine. Healthy brain,

cognitive benefits that get older and the muscle maintenance that, honestly, I wish I took creatine when I played. I did not because I was always worried about pulling muscles. That's That's kind of like what people talk about. Yeah. But you got to take a lot of it to really have tighter muscles. So yeah, I mean, like, listen, I'm a washed up NFL player now. And it's kind of the key to me staying in shape enough so people aren't like, what the fuck happened to you? Create gummies, man.

Check them out. They really do help. As much as I love talking about, you know, I love O-line D-line technique talk. I could do this shit all day. You know, gets me excited. I do want to talk about some broader NFL topics. We can start with the Browns. Just such an interesting year with so many of the, you know, head coaching changes.

Just kind of wanted to ask you. Todd Munkin is now the head coach of the Browns. I was with him. In 2018, I think he was the offensive coordinator for the Bucks when I was down there. As a Noseguard didn't interact with him at Tanya. Yeah, of get to know him around the facility and stuff like that. Just kind of curious, your thoughts of, you know, how you see Munkin fitting in with the Browns and anything you're kind of looking forward to there.

I think Todd's the right guy for the right. time with the Browns where they are. And I think that's something that a lot of fans probably miss and teams do too about like, hey, just getting the hot coordinator possibility and making them your head coach or maybe like a hardball or Tom and one of those guys now that got fired and you just think, oh, he's a great coach, he'll be great for us. You know, every team has different needs depending on if you're more of a veteran led team. If you have a quarterback that's been around that, you know, he kind of runs the show. Like you maybe need a different coach. If you don't have a quarterback or if you got a young quarterback, well, I want a head coach that can develop that

position because that's the most important human being in the franchise. He is spoken like a true left tackle. That quarterback better be good. Otherwise, everyone's going to get fired. And so with Todd, I think he's very good at developing quarterbacks. He's got a very good offensive mind. And he doesn't have necessarily like one system where he has to fit all the square pegs in the round holes.

Like he can adapt to what he has while he's developing. that young quarterback position. I mean, to that point, he went from Tampa. I know he went down to college. I know he was in the SEC somewhere. Yeah, Georgia. And then Baltimore and now, you know, he got the head job in Cleveland, which is exciting.

I'm happy for him. And, I mean, you kind of mentioned this, but, you know, we looked it up, I looked it up. How many different head coaches did you have in Cleveland? Six or seven? Six head coaches, nine offensive coordinators. Shees. Two owners.

You forget about that. Yeah. motor change there too. So you've seen a lot of new coaches come in. I guess like, you know, as a guy who had a long career and had that many different coaches, what do you think the hardest thing as a player about getting a new coaching staff is? Everything changes, like the routine, the schedule, how practice runs. And a lot of times it's not better or worse. It's just like you get set in your ways as a veteran guy and you know what to expect every day. And then you can make sure that my piece of the puzzle is fit there. And then I can also do my own.

stuff on the side that I know I need to get myself ready. Yeah. Right? Because you're always going to have your own things that you have to get yourself ready. Yep. But like when you have a new guy, you spend a lot more time like figuring out how do I fit into his puzzle, what is practice going to be like? How am I going to handle the meetings?

And like, where can I find my time to get myself ready? How do I maximize my performance with all these unknowns? Yeah. And I had the same thing. I mean, I had a couple, uh, two head coaches in my time in Philly and go to a new team. And whenever you go to a new team or get a new head coach, you almost need to kind of reinvent yourself a little bit. It feels like you're a rookie all over again.

And so it's on one hand a great opportunity to kind of change your game a little bit and improve yourself. But at the other hand, it's a whole daunting. Yeah. And I think one of the challenges is like practice, right? Every coach has different things they're going to emphasize and do during practice. Some coaches like more individual periods. Some coaches more like the team periods. And you're going to work on different things.

And as you get older, you know the fundamentals you need to work on every day. So it's like, am I getting this in this part of practice? Am I getting what I need out there? Do I need to spend more time after practice working on my kick sets or my B blocks or whatever those different techniques look like. I think the interesting thing too is like a guy like you, I mean, probably later in your career, especially in include like you get a new head coach, you probably influence the, you know, like I'm sure if you were to go up in a head coach's office and be like, hey, we actually

need to do this a little bit. Like I think veterans can be outspoken and kind of crafting the certain elements of the practice schedule or the, you know, I don't know, kind of the way the ship is run. Like, did you, uh, did you ever kind of put your hand on the table and, and, and, and, yeah, make things your way a little bit at all? You try to suggest, you know, understanding that there is a role here, I'm, I'm the employee. That's the boss. And you want to do it respectfully. But that's one of the important things, I think when you do get a new coach, you have to build that trust. Yeah. Between them so that when you do go up there and you say something, they actually listen to you. Yeah. Because they feel like you're

not just pissing in the wind. Yeah. You're doing it for the best interest of the team. You're not doing it just because you're self-serving. You're like, well, you know, I don't really like doing nine on seven because it kind of hurts and it's tiring and I want to do it. It's like, well, you know what? Sometimes fucking deal with it.

You're going to have to do some shit you don't like to do because it's good for the betterment of the team. Yeah. It's a fine line to walk, man. So I want to talk a little bit more about some of these coaching things. I mean, they were 10, I think, right? 10 jobs in the NFL that are open and all those are filled up. I was wondering if there's one kind of new coaching scenario that you are most interested

in or maybe like a personal connection or one that you're kind of excited about that you think is a good fit. Well, the one that's interesting to me is Buffalo. Yeah, seriously. Basically, you get rid of McDermott and nothing else changes. You elevate the offensive coordinator to be the head coach. Yep. So obviously you got the best player or.

I think he's Josh Allen this year is the best player. We love Josh Allen. Love Josh Allen. Yeah. Fun to watch. Puts a team on his back, whatever it takes. Yep. And so like you want to get more out of your team when you have that superstar.

Yeah. You feel like you should be winning championships. Yep. And I get it, but I also understand that it's pretty hard to win the way they've been winning, no matter who you got. And to like just fire the head coach in that situation for the amount of success that he's had. That's a tough pill to swallow. And you're going to add after your time in Cleveland, you're like, what the fuck you guys do?

Like, don't look a gift horse in the eye here. Exactly. We would take that. No problem. But it'll be interesting to see without any other changes being made significantly. Yeah. Well, let me interrupt you for a moment. They got a new defensive coordinator.

Oh. Jimmy Leonard, right? The Buffalo. The Wisconsin Badger. Oh, come on. There you go. I'm sorry. I missed that NFL news.

It must have this week. Yeah. Well, breaking here. Dun-na-na-na-da-da-da. Well, that's awesome. Good for Jimmy. He's great coordinator. and he'll do awesome things there.

And you can say the defense was maybe what kind of held him back a little bit this year. So maybe Jimmy can flip the script for him. I mean, I can't think of a smarter. I mean, you talk about two Wisconsin legends, man. You and Jimmy, I remember hearing stories when I was in Madison about Jimmy and how smart he was and maximized his playing potential and took. The thing I heard is like he carried around notebooks. He took so many notes and he knew everything.

And I was like, I'm going to be that fuck. fucking guy. How'd that work out for you? You know, I'm really smart, Joe. You brought the notebook to the KK every night. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, it took me 12 years to get my degree,

so, you know, I was doing something right, but I'm excited to see Jimmy in Buffalo and to kind of see how that unfolds. I mean, interested to see Harbaugh in New York, man, and all that good stuff. I wonder how the New York thing's going to work because, you know, Harbaugh's been great. He got fired,

he got fired because his ceiling was, in my opinion, they thought, like, you're a great CEO, like Tomlin. Yeah. You can't win the big one, though, because you don't have that. And McDermann, I mean, it's all kind of. Offensive mind, like, I think a good defensive CEO head coach or like special teams, like Harbaugh is, they raise your floor because they understand the team aspect. They build the team, you know, but they don't ever get you over the hump or not as much as you think,

like an NBA Ream. Everyone likes a sexy offensive coordinator too, but, I mean, they're, they're having. has been a lot of defensive coaches hired in the cycle too. So and then the other thing we're kind of talking about this on the podcast too is there's been so much success earlier, early with some of these coaches like Brabel, you know, McDonald, Seattle, and then Signetti winning the college, you know, the playoffs, the national championship. Actually, JJ Watt pointed this out, another Wisconsin guy.

And it's just like, man, this new coaching, this new hiring cycle is like, they're fucked. Expectations have never been higher. Yeah. Like they got to do it in one or two. years. I mean, just look at the AFC North, like three out of the four coaches, including two of the winnings head coaches in like football history

with Tomlin and Harbaugh. The expectations every year, like win a championship or we'll find somebody else. Seriously. It's a high pressure biz. I'm not coaching. Exactly. I want to catch up on a couple things from our last interview Joe. We talked about your meat already, which is lovely. Happy to do that more if you want, but I was looking back at the... You want to see it? It's downstairs in the fridge.

We interviewed at the draft, like I mentioned, and I thought it was fun. We talked about Mason Graham a little bit, and, you know, he was a first-round pick for the Browns, defensive tackle, playing in Jim Schwartz's scheme. Jim is now gone, but just kind of wanted to hear what you thought about his rookie year. If you, you know, just kind of follow up, close the loop, I guess. Yeah. In the interview we did a while ago. I thought he had a solid rookie year. it took him a little while because in college he was kind of a two-gapper.

Yep. And Schwartz's system, they want him to penetrate. You're going. Yeah. You know, so it took him a little bit to adjust. And then I think he kind of found his role and started playing better. I think the biggest thing for him is just getting a little bit stronger, more powerful, like in the weight room, putting that muscle on that. It just takes time, right?

Even when you get to the NFL as a 22-year-old, you got a lot of strength that you can still build, right? Yeah. The best power lifters in the world, Olympic lifters are older guys. His strength development just takes a long time. Yeah, it does. And so for him, I think if he's able to really commit himself in the weight room and, like, build that muscle and that power. Yeah. He's so quick and he's got such great hand movement and he has great technique and a great effort that he can become one of those greats.

Yeah, and I looked it up. He had seven TFLs and half a sack and his half sack was when he split with Miles, I think to tie the... Yeah, when everyone was like, damn it. Yeah, damn it. What the fuck, man. Rookie miles. Fucking rookies. Rewing everything.

But I also want to follow up with you a little bit because we've talked about this not super in-depth, but, you know, dude, when I first retired, I reach out to you and hit you up as a resource for like, you know, how do I get my body right? How do I lose this weight? I ended up, you know, thanks largely to your guidance. Joe put me on this keto intermittent fasting. He sent me a notes app. You know, we don't need to get too into the weeds with it, but it was lengthy. Yes. You know, and that was just so fun for me to kind of have a new meal. And mission, you know, and new goals in the weight room and change my body and things like that. I was just kind of curious, you know, we don't got to get too into specifics. If you got any new, you know, weight room or health or fitness stuff that you've been excited about. Yeah. I mean, I've been doing a lot of the same stuff that I was trying to share with you. And like, when you retire, I think it's important.

If you want to lose weight, if you're a bigger guy, you got to do it right away. Yeah. Because you can't just wait. It's not going to happen. No. So kudos to you, among a few other guys. that I tried to help out. Kelsey was another one of those guys.

Yeah. I was kind of like, all right, hey, you got to kind of change how you eat. You got to change your relationship with food because as a big lineman, all you do is eat all the time. And it's like the more calories, the better. And you're at the facility. It's just there. It's there.

It's good food. And so you're going to eat it. You know, and it's one of the things that led me to Hall of Fame beef and raising my own cattle and raising my own food. Like the quality of the food that you eat is going to reflect the fuel that you get from your body and how you feel. And as a former football player,

your body's gonna feel like crap. And so adding the keto type diet where you're lower in the carbs, it's good for losing weight, but it's also really good for reducing inflammation. I'm sure you notice that. And you add the intermittent fasting in there. It kind of helps you just change that relationship. The thing I got so upset about hearing is how some of the dairy products,

you know, spent a lot of time Wisconsin, how that can lead to inflammation. Yep. I love my dairy, Joe. Yeah, I love my dairy too. And I'm not like super strict of the diet. I think one thing that's important. is as you're trying to change the diet to maybe lose weight after you play,

it's like this can be like a guideline to have a new routine and a new way to do things. It's not just, I'm going to do this for a little while, lose weight, and then go back to what I was doing previously because I don't want to be 340 again. No, that doesn't work either. And I think just the processed foods getting that out is obviously huge. And you're seeing that with the RFK and the Make America Health again. People are starting to wake up like, hey, protein's really good. healthy fats are really good for you.

Maybe we don't need to eat cereal for breakfast every day. These are things that, you know, it took us a while to figure out. But I think you see the results right away. And so right now my big thing is, you know, I lift three days a week. I know you're a big lifter. I love watching your amazing squats on Instagram. Yeah, after the Super Bowl, I'm going to get back into my meathead shit. I'm excited.

Yeah, I had my hip replaced this past spring so I don't quite get under the bar like I used to. But I still try to do some of that stuff. and I get into the yoga and being out on the farm, you know, that helps because you're just active all day, like, working, which, you know, you realize, like, how hard that is until you sit down at the end of the day and you're like, oh, I'm tired. Yeah, exactly. But just, like, what did you say when we sat down movement is motion? Motion is lotion. It's so true. Yeah.

Because if you don't move and you just sit on the couch or you stand or whatever, like, you're going to feel like shit. But if you go out and you're active every day and you make that your routine, you get a sweat in, like, you, you don't. You don't even realize how good that is for you and all the downstream effect. And then once you lose, you know, weight and you feel better, it's kind of a, you know, a little bit of a compiling effect. Like you feel better. You keep moving. Your joints feel better. And that's the thing, man.

It's like we have so much joint pain as washed up football players and when you can do anything to just make that feel better. It's like, I'm all in. So I want to thank you, Joe, for coming on, man. You're a legend and a badger. Just a good hang, man. I appreciate you. do this again. Let's do it again sometime.

I'll come out to the farm. Put me to work. Yeah, let's do that. That'd be awesome. It'll be a lot of fun. So Joe Thomas, everybody.