Green Light with Chris Long - Jordan Reid! NFL Combine Recap, Fast 40 Times & Player Comps. Calvin Ridley Suspended, Von Miller to Denver & Coach K’s Finale.

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

(2:07) - Hello, Layup Line & Family Vacations. (12:12) - ESPN Draft Analyst Jordan Reid Talks NFL Combine, Risers, Deep Defensive Line Class, Speedy 40 Times, QBs & Indy as the Combine Host City. (51:17) - Calvin Ridley Suspended by NFL for One Year for Gambling, Coach K’s Cameron Indoor Finale vs UNC & Von Miller Returns to Denver? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Just bet $10. and win 200 in free bets. Download the win bet app now or visit WynNNBET.com. Download the app, bet big and win bigger. And let's get after it. Bet 10 win 200 is not available in Michigan. Terms and conditions apply must be 21 or older and present in a state where win bet is available.

Gambling problem in Arizona call 1-800 Next Step. In Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey, and Virginia call 1-800 gambler. and in Michigan, 1,800-2707-1-17. In New York, 18778, Hope, N.Y. Tennessee, 1-8009-9-9-7-89. Today on the Greenlight Pod, we welcome ESPN draft analyst Jordan Reed

to discuss the results of the NFL Combine and what a few teams might do in the first round. Then, Chris and Macon discussed the Calvin Ridley suspension and Coach K's last game at Cameron. enjoy I can hardly hear you Chris you're so far away well before I want you I'll say this as loud as I can congratulations to your daughter on taking her first steps I want to be the first to on the air wish your daughter who is lovely a happy first step I really appreciate that you know it was so nice to be able to see her walk via FaceTime because I'm sitting here recording a podcast while

You're on a freaking vacation. It was nice through the brilliance of technology to be able to see that, whatever we call this, digitally through a screen. Hey, listen, man, I can't control the timing on that, you know? Yeah, no, you're right. And, hey, let me be the first to wish my lovely wife, happy second anniversary, March the 8th. You were there, and I know you were getting to it.

for sure the longest two-year marriage in the history of marriages. We got married on March the 8th, 2020, and I just want to say, I'm sorry to everyone. We did not realize what we were doing. How do you mean? The pandemic? Well, some could say we were the first domino, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

No, honestly, I can remember your wedding, which was lovely. It was not at like a traditional venue. It was in somebody's house. It was small. It was intimate. And I can remember thinking, it was funny. I really do. When I was taking pictures that night, you were like, hey, fuck you, man.

Stop taking pictures. And I was kind of like, dude, like, this is the last thing before the world changes. And lo and behold, as I look back at my pictures from 2020, that was the last thing before we went off the cliff. It really was. So. We had a little mini moon plan for that next weekend, the ensuing weekend, and the world had already changed. We canceled it. Still haven't gone.

Let me sell you on a place. Pliadal Carmen. Playa del Carmen, Mexico. Hello! So if you need a do-over, if you need a mulligan, listen, I've been down to Mexico before. I love Mexico. I love the people of Mexico, and I've had a great time here. I went down years ago for my morning jacket festival called One Big Holiday.

They had some other acts, including War on Drugs down there, and Preservation Hall, Jazz, and all that stuff. Like, they always have a really good lineup here and had a big travel snafu going with my parents, going with my kids, like this big family vacation. Kyle didn't find out about it until like three days before he left. It was not happy. I told him it was an issue with the weight on the plane. We didn't want to happen in a situation where we had, quote, unquote, too much luggage. Also, the guy takes up a lot of room, just generally. And, you know, if I got to invite Kyle, then I got to invite Howie.

And then there's like a whole crew alongs here. Anyways, long story short, in two, three days, we went from traveling somewhere else entirely to Mexico. and that worked out perfectly because one big holiday was going on here in Riviera Maya. And I got to see Jacket the other night. It's been awesome, man. I'm truly on vacation. Didn't see the Duke game. Literally Sunday was ready to bet UNC Money Line, just to have fun and watch the game.

But then when I realized that I decided I was totally going to tune out and not watch sports and really be on vacation, I did not put the bet in. And boy, do I regret that. So I want to get the whole Duke game catch up on the back half of this pod. I also want to talk about Von Miller. I know Cowboy Reid's excited about that and the Combine. That's why we have Jordan Reed on. So Jordan Reed, of course, writes for ESPN and analyzes draft prospects.

He is awesome at it. And we have a mutual friend in William Hayes. So Jordan Reed, about the same age as me. He's a rising star in that kind of Mel Kuiper bracket. of talent and I think he's going to be even better one day. So we get Jordan Reed on the show today in just a few minutes. But first, let's do layup line, shall we? Yeah, hit us.

Should we do an international shuffle one country to another? Wow. Okay. Oh, wait, no, I'll do it. We don't need to do a shuffling day. We're going to do some Tannie Rogers. I like it. Yeah, because you've got to know when to hold them.

You've got to know one to fold them. And you've got to know one to walk away. And the case of No when to walk away And know when to run And the case of losing multi-million dollars On 1,500 bucks worth of gambling,

I'd run. That's the situation where I'd run. You know when to run. That's when you run. Yes. Okay. But no, and like, listen, we're not going to skewer Calvin Ridley.

We'll talk about that after Jordan Reed. Like, it's, it feels a little unprecedented in this day and age of, Like, he is the first guy to get busted in the age of online betting. Well, I mean, there was the one guy, 20-20 who was in Arizona, but nobody had heard of this guy. All due respect, Calvin Ridley is a guy we've been talking about a lot this year and a really good player. So it's kind of interesting. You know, you have your Pete Roses of old who were going to a pay phone and calling a bookmaker to bet on the Reds.

And Calvin's got to log on to some fucking skis. I just feel like any app in Florida is sketchy, including a gambling app unless it's Winbet, which I don't know if Winbet carries a service in Florida, but there's a reason if they don't, because Florida is sketchy and there's a lot of liability out there down in Florida. But he is the first guy to get busted in this day and age in the NFL. And it's so interesting to me because people always ask me, like, hey, did you bet when you were in the NFL? And I think it's the dumbest question in the world because I never came close. never came close, not on pro football.

So it's unorthodox. This is not something that guys do, and if they do, they don't talk about it. Because I haven't heard about it. It's a delicate situation. It's a little different than a guy on an active roster, you know, getting to the team hotel and putting in a parlorette. So we'll talk about Calvin Ridley and a few. But we wanted to get you guys to Jordan Reed first because he's awesome. And I didn't see the combine.

I'll admit it. Macon did, Reed did. Jordan Reed did. I feel like I'm the only guy, but I'm enjoying my vacation as God intended it down here in Mexico. So anything else I'm missing, guys. Millard Fillmore and William Howard Taft died on March the 8th. Good to know. Good to know. Both, man, they were good presidents. About 56 years apart. Yeah. So any presidents out there head on a swivel today. fellas. One day, ladies and gentlemen. Today, this year, only gentlemen. Did you just say out loud that Joe Biden could die any day? No, no, no. And anybody who has been president who is living.

Got it. Yeah. Got it. There's only a handful. Dog, it could be it for us tomorrow today. Jimmy Carter's still around? Hell yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. As he should be. Yeah. Hopefully for a lot, like, more.

days, if not months or years. Kat's 97. It's incredible. I don't plan on being around that long. You know who wants to make a lot of dead presidents? Malik Willis. Guys shoot for traffic sports everywhere. And I want to cut because we've been talking about Malik Willis since early fall.

Okay. We put him in the Hall of Fame months ago. So we want to cut of all that money he's going to make when he's the Panther or a Steeler. And if you hear anything about Evan Neal, I had Evan Neal in my head pictures to the New York Giants at five months ago, months ago. I got bad news for you trading those picks for Russell Wilson, and you're going to be just as bad as the Seahawks were this past year. Russell A, jokes on you, Russell Wilson, largest hands in the league. That's what you really? Top three, Russ, Aaron Rogers, Josh Allen. How bigger Russell's hands? He fumbles a lot for being a damn guy.

with big hands. I believe it's 10 and one quarter inches. His hands might be bigger than mine. Mitz Paul. That's incredible. Yeah, dog. That's incredible. Okay.

So we'll ask, we'll ask Jordan Reed about small hands. We'll ask him about Malik Willis, and we'll certainly ask him about the edge rushers you all enjoy. And then on the back half, we'll talk about some of the breaking news that just has cascaded onto our timelines today. It was too boring.

The combine wasn't enough. We need a guy gambling. We need Von Miller back to Denver. And we'll catch up on Duke. If you're in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey, New York, Tennessee, or Virginia, and you haven't tried the WinBet app yet, I got great news for you. WinBet is now offering $200 in free bets for new users. That's right, 200 big ones.

Winbet is basically giving you free money. Don't pass it up. Download the WinBet app today. Terms and conditions apply must be 21 or older and present in a state where win bet is available. Gambling problem in Arizona call 1-800 Next Step. Indiana, New Jersey, and Virginia, call 1-800 Gambler, and in Michigan, 1,800-2707-1-1-7. In New York, 18778-8-Hope, N. Tennessee, 1-8009-9-9-7-8-9.

All right, so we're really lucky to have Jordan Reed. I mean, you know, like, I'm on vacation. I'm in Mexico. I didn't see so much of the combine, but I've read up on it. Macon has read up on it, has seen it. Cowboy Reed has seen it, and obviously Jordan Reed has been watching the combine extensively. So how are you doing, man? You get any sleep over the last week or do you go home and just rest for a couple days? Yeah, I'm making it.

So the Combine was great. It's a trip I love every year, but back home now, and I have two twin daughters that are two years old, so I don't get any sleep at home and I don't get any sleep on the road. So I'm used to. No, that's when the Combine's like a treat. You're like, I'm one of the Combine. I'd be on my feet 18 hours a day. But did you hit that steakhouse that everybody talks about?

There's a bunch of them. So there's St. Elmo's, there's Prime, and then there's like, there's so many different other ones. But yeah, I have probably like five pounds of steak over the past week. So I'm trying to recover from that. Good. That's good. That's good.

What about, give me the best one. Is it St. Elmo's? Or is there a dark horse that nobody talks about? I actually like Prime, the best. I think St. Elmo's, you're just going to get the shrimp cocktail that everybody talks about. And it's like, I don't understand the hype with the shrimp cocktail. It's kind of like you're just signing up to burn the crap out of the roof of your mouth. So with the horseradish and everything like that.

So, I mean, St. Elmo's is great, but I have some other spots that I like better. That's funny as hell because I was talking to somebody over the weekend who's in the NFL media circle. And they were like, dude, St. Elmo is a place that people just go to be seen and say I was at St. Elmo's because it's become this like kind of fixture during the combine. So Prime just as good. saying that's the take. Yeah, absolutely. It's a better value. Yeah, for sure.

Okay. San Moses has fallen, but not too far down the draft board. Okay, so Jordan Reed, you saw it all, man. Like, what do you think was the most shocking thing to you? Is it something chalky like Jordan Davis, or is it something totally off the board that I'm not thinking about the UK and said I could not believe that happened. Well, it's just how fast every position group ran.

I don't think it's just a defensive line, or defensive backs. I mean, we had a wire. excuse me, we had a cornerback run 4-2-3, who was Kalyn Barnes from Baylor. We had Jordan Davis run, I believe, we ran 4-7-8. I think that was his final time. So, like, just how fast guys ran. And I think they installed a new surface at Lucas Oil Stadium.

So obviously it was a faster surface. And then overall, like there was some ridiculous times, like Amari Barno, who was an outside linebacker, he's 6, 25, 245 pounds, and he ran 4-3-7. So just ridiculous times like that, just how fast the track was at Lucas Oil. I think that was the most surprising. It was also incredible to see a Virginia Tech guy actually run a fast time at the Combine. You know, in Blacksburg, they shortened their 40 to like 38 and a half yards. It was really interesting to see that defensive end run like a 4-3-something.

Now, when I hear defensive end edge guy, is this guy like a true edge? Can he hold the point of attack? Can he set the edge? You know, this kid from tech? What's his name making? Do you remember his name? We don't remember Hokie's names. Yeah, so Mari Barno.

Yeah. Of course, that guy. So Samari Barno, can he set the edge? Like, is he one of these little guys masquerading as a defensive end? Like, I look at these defensive end numbers, man. And it's obviously the surface because I would have ran at least a four, six, eight. I would have cracked the top 15 in this year's edge guy group, which is incredible. They span all the way from the four threes. And the guys in the outer edge of that top 15 are like in the four seven. So is this guy, are these guys that are running? these times like true defensive ends or has the position kind of changed this much?

It's kind of like a mixture of both. Honestly, Chris, just because you have Trayvon Walker, who's probably going to end up being probably a top eight pick may go even higher from Georgia. He's 6'5-272 pounds and he ran 459 at that size, which is just ridiculous for him. He made himself so much money. But Barnault was a little bit different. He's more of your stand-up two-point guy, outside linebacker. He does struggle a little bit as far as holding up firm at the point of attack.

He sets a good edge, but he's not the one that is going to battle with double teams from tight ends and offensive tackles. That's not his game. But he can drop back in coverage. You want him as that three, four outside linebacker. Just trying to keep him free as much as you can. It's so funny because I'm looking at this kid, Chauvin Walker, and, you know, he's shooting up the draft boards as we talked about. And he's got this old NFL frame. Like, he looks like a guy that would have been playing a base left end.

you know, with those measurables in the NFL around the turn of the century when, when, you know, when I was coming up and getting in it, there were guys were bigger, longer, and stronger. And there's no doubt my mind with his pedigree where he's played in the SEC and his body type, that's a guy who can set the edge. Now, I wonder if he's a three-down player because it's funny to me hearing a guy is, you know, he's maybe a top five pick, but then I'm reading he might not be a three-down player. In your mind, does he come off the field on third down?

No, I don't think he does. and he's a tricky evaluation just because in Georgia's defense and then also in Saban's defense, they very rarely ever just ask guys to get up the field right now. And he played some five technique, but it was so tight to the offensive tackle. He wasn't allowed to just go hunt. And you know, on third downs, you want guys to play those fives, those wide nines, which you rarely ever see that in Kirby's smarter, Nick Saban's defense. And that's what makes his evaluation so tricky.

So you're kind of just basing everything off of the traits. And then once you allow them to play that five technique and just allow us, just allow him to go and hunt the quarterback. You're assuming that he can be that guy, but right now it's just a projection. You're thinking, man, this guy at this size, these traits, he's eventually going to be able to figure it out. And he kind of reminds me of Rashon Gary. If you remember him coming out of Michigan, there was kind of like some effort concerns

with him. And there's no questions with that with Walker, but just talking about, oh, no, that guy plays fucking hard. He plays hard. There's a national championship where he ran down somebody who caught a ball in the flat, 30 yards down the field, and he's running past backers and safety to get to that football. Yeah, it's just, he's so inexperienced as a past rusher. So he's kind of just like he's experimenting whenever he does get an opportunity to do it. And he kind of reminds me

at Daniel Hunter a little bit, too, if you remember him coming out of LSU, if he had no idea how to use his hands just because he didn't have a lot of experience with doing it. So he's one of those guys you're really banking on the traits and him eventually figuring it out. So you're going to have to have a defensive line coach that really has a lot of experience with developing guys and just showing him how to use those tools that he has in the toolbox just because that height, weight, speed combination, I mean, you're going to bank on a guy eventually figuring it out just because he's excellent as far as like a run defender. I mean, he has, I think he had 35 and a half inch arms, which is ridiculously long for that size. And I think

he had like an 84 inch wingspan too, which is crazy for that size too. So he has the link that you're looking for and it shows up on run defense, but it's just a matter of you have to figure out what you're getting as a pass rusher. It feels like a patriot to me. And it's funny. I saw some comps. Not the Pats are going to be there or need a guy like that early. But I saw some comps. We were just talking about comps right before you got on. It's like, why now we always seeing all the comps are really good comps? We never get comped.

A guy in the top 10 never gets comped to a guy who is pretty good or, you know, like the fact that we went Chris Wormley. I read somebody, you know, compared him to Chris Wormley, who had a big year quietly in Pittsburgh this year. You know, those guys are really valuable. I just don't know at three or four if you're going to, if you're going to say five years down the line like these are the sack numbers and I can justify you know this pick with the numbers but a good team that has like a program and a way they do things and like you mentioned a defensive line coach

you can turn a guy who's used to rushing from a type five into a double digit guy it's just about development so where I'm curious both your guys thoughts on this and it's circling back to speed I'm a former 40 yard dash runner but have never played football I'm curious what position is speed most relevant because I understand all things being equal if you have a guy running a 4-5 and a guy running a 4-7 you'll take the faster guy but there's there's football speed and then there's combine speed and rarely are all other things equal so how much stock is really being put into the 40 where does it where does it jump off the field most what position well I mean I can just tell you guys right now that NFL teams value the agilities a little bit more

than just the straight line 40s, just because like defensive line, those are the positions that you're going to be able to see some agility type stuff. Defensive back is another one where they value agility too of where you're doing so much change of direction. So, I mean, Y receiver, I think that's one position of where it kind of translates, but we've seen guys that haven't performed well at the 40 go on and have successful careers. And then you have most of your burners like your John Ross or some of these other guys that really just didn't pan out in the NFL.

And then these teams use a lot of these agility to what's called, clusters in the scouting world. So if you have guys that are graded evenly, you use those clusters in order to break up some of these log gems that you may have or some guys that you have graded evenly at a certain position. I also think it's probably not a good thing if you're a corner and you run like a blazing fast 40 and everybody's surprised, right? I mean, like, because I've got four years of tape that says you're not that fast, hence me being surprised. So like, do you look at that with a guy whose play speed is so different and somebody who said ran a four two or a four three and you're like damn fast surface they changed the you know they

changed the surface this guy's real good and straight line but it didn't show up on tape like comparing that play speed with the 40 time yeah and i mean that's the tough part about all of this just because the draft is you have your experts and you know like myself or people that are well seasoned and educated on it but at the end of the day it's an educated guess but all these data points that you're getting with the combine and the intel from the combine getting these guys on the whiteboard and speed dating in a sense is what I like to call it when you're meeting these prospects for 15 to 20 minutes at a time. You're just making an educated guess when it's all said and done. I don't know how guys can get any faster. Like, you know, I'm sure

we thought that 20 years ago in the NFL, but like it's incredible to think 20 years from now, the surfaces, the cleats, the athletes, like we're going to be looking at a 4-3 like, uh, that guy run 4-3 though. I mean, like, I don't know if it's ever going to get there. I think the thing we should more focus on with defensive lineman is Jordan Davis's 10-yard split. Like, everybody's freaking out about the 40. His 10-yard split, I think, you know, like, that was what I made my, I had an elite 10-yard split as a defensive end. His is like just behind me.

Yeah. And he's 340 pounds. The distance between him and a guard to run that 10-yard split is fucking terrifying. And I think, you know, everybody wants to freak out about the 40, the weight, all that stuff. if he's in the right defense, I feel like that's the scariest number I saw all weekend was that 10-yard split. Who else really got out of the gate well this weekend?

Maybe it didn't run the best 40, but somebody you saw that burst in the 10, maybe at edge rusher or defensive tackle that you said, hey, this guy's got a shot because of that burst. Yeah, there was two guys, well, actually three guys that really stood out to me. Aidan Hutchinson was the first one, and there was a lot of questions about his agility

just because he's not a defensive end that's really going to like what I like to call reduce his service area, get low and bend the hoop at the top of his at the top of his rest plans just because that's just not his game. So go ahead. No, I'm saying, hey, guilty is sure. Oh, yeah. I'm saying, dude, I totally get that. It makes a big difference. If you can't bet, if you're not a, but you've got to have the burst.

What are he running the town? I think it was like 162 or 163, something like that, which is still pretty good for the most part. I think T.J. Watt was in that range, too, when they were talking about it. When I was in a stadium, I think T.J. Watt had, like, 162. Miles Garrett had, like, 163 or something like that. So they said, as long as it's between, like, 155 to 164 is really, really good as far as you. What was your 10-yard split? I think it was 162, which is, I'm like, damn, this kid really is.

Although you had the right comp in Patrick Kearney, he really is trying to be me. The St. Louis Rams come nowhere near this guy. Aiden Hutchinson, this stuff doesn't matter being a hometown guy, but, you know, Detroit's going to be looking at him, maybe. And I guess the big question is, what does Jacksonville do? Like, I had Doug. I have no idea what he's going to do. He was my head coach. I really don't know.

What do you think they do? And then do you have a lean on where a Dan Campbell would go? And that kind of really, it's more about Thibito than Hutchinson, because I think 10 out of 10, anybody would take Tivodeau's athleticism over Hutchinson. But we've had a bunch of questions as to his. like on field kind of, I don't know how you put competitive spirit in a numeric that we can measure. But for some reason, there have been questions about that. So what do you think happens with Jacksonville? And do you think that Detroit can pass up the hometown kid for that tantalizing high ceiling guy in Thibodeau?

Yeah, I think it's between two guys at number one overall right now just because they have to figure out a way to protect Trevor Lawrence. You take him with the number one pick. You have to figure out a way to protect him. Cam Robinson is probably going to hit free agency. They have a rookie who played well last year named Walker Little from Stanford. He fielded in really good at left tackle. Joanne Taylor, who's their right tackle right now, he's entering a contract year next year,

but he's been really, really inconsistent. So I think it'll probably be a tackle between Iki Aquano from NC State and then also Evan Neal. And I just want to talk about Neil for a second, man. Like he said he weighed in at 337 pounds, like just looking at that dude at the podium. He's built just like Tyron Smith. And, I mean, we both have seen Tyrant in person. like he's 275 pounds when he's 320 pounds plus like all his weight is in his lower half and he looks like a power forward NBA power forward you like there's no way this guy weighs 337 pounds

but that was that's what he weighed in at at the weigh ends and the measurables at the combine so his body it just looked incredible he looks so fit he looked so in shape and i think he played at like 350 last year so he slimmed down a little bit but his body looked really really good And then Kwano, he's six foot four, three hundred and twenty pounds. But he's one of those dudes that you would hate to play just because play after play after play, he's just trying to play through the whistle. And he's just one of those dudes. He's like, look man, like, calm down.

But his play temperament, he just plays pissed off the entire game. So he's a little bit more nasty than Evanil, but he has some things that needs to work on from a past protection standpoint. He kind of oversets quite a bit. So he sets all the way over to the outside shoulder. And then he leaves his inside shoulder really open a lot right now. that's kind of his big weakness, but that's something that he said he's trying to clean up for the most part. But I think those are you two guys at the number one overall pick of what it will come down to. I never know why somebody's so big and so long needs to overset anybody.

Right. You know, it's like a habit that guys get in in college because, you know, guys will be in the hallway practicing their kickstep and they want to look as fast as possible and they look sweet doing it. But a guy that big, just anchor inside, make somebody run through you. And I mean, like, it sounds to me like he's the, I don't know, 90%, what would you put it at? Like if Jacksonville goes tackle, is he like the 85% lock or is the 1B that much closer than we think? Honestly, I think it's 50-50 right now. Like nobody has no idea what they're going to do. But a lot of people are saying it's between those two guys and Aidan Hutchison.

But I just think you have to figure out a way to protect Trevor, especially with what happened last year. and then him just not looking good in spurts last year. You want to protect your investment, especially when we're talking about a quarterback that was labeled as one of the best since Andrew Luck. And I know Doug, he wants to protect the quarterback just because the trenches is where. I mean, you guys won that Super Bowl.

Y'all were really, really good along the offensive line and defensive line. And you had somebody like a Jason Peters. That was just that big dude that just kicked your ass the entire game. So it wouldn't surprise me if he takes it Evan Neal, but also on the opposite side, he had the athletic guy and Lane. Johnson, which is a very similar mold to Iki Aquano. So it's tough right now.

And I mean, just people that I talk to, they don't even have any idea of what's going on. So obviously the people internally, they're the only people that knows what's happening right now, but it's really a 50-50 split right now between those two. That's so interesting. I mean, like you do look at, you know, who Doug, who, you know, owes a Super Bowl to that front, that offensive line. I mean, that was the heartbeat of our team.

And he's probably looking at two guys. And you made a great point. they have comps, relative comps, in both tackles we had. So he's got tough decisions to make. Another one that I think is going to be really interesting. I mean, like, besides, like, do you, do you buy the Thibodeau thing? Do you have, you know, the Georgia kid rocketing into the top five at defensive end? Do you have, do you have Kyle Hamilton being taken early?

I know the Jets supposedly love Kyle Hamilton. He, what I read was that he didn't have a combine. Do you think that that's legitimate? in, do you think that a safety could possibly go that high? I think he's the best player in the draft. I mean, Kyle Hamilton, I think he's just an alien. That's what I like to call him. Like, you're 6'4.4 and a half, 220 pounds.

I know he wasn't going to run fast just because he's high hip, and he's more of like a buildup speed type of safety that just covers ground. His strides are so long. He's never been that quick twitch guy that just that I thought was going to run fast. So 459 didn't really surprise me at all. I mean, I thought he was going to run a little bit faster than that, but I didn't think he was a 4-4 guy by any stretch just because he operates off a build-up speed. But just like range, being able to come down and strike,

and then just being able to play any position on the back end, I just think he affects the game so much. And defense is now what's so different about football, I think, 10 years ago, is that safeties are asked to do so much more with it being more of a passing game now. I think Calhleton has so much value. Yeah. It's so interesting you said with build-up speed because some we never think about, And maybe Macon's question earlier, you know, a position that 40 doesn't matter as much.

And I don't want to go out of limb here because you know way more than me. But I feel like the very thing you just pointed out is that a lot of time, safeties are creeping up into the box or they've got time if they're smart players to diagnose and take an angle and start jogging before they sprint. And, you know, I wonder at that 4-6, do you remember another safety in recent memory that actually panned out very well with a relatively slow time? Because that might be a position where it doesn't matter as much depending on how you play. Yeah, so a comp that's been floating out there for him is Derwin James,

and Durwin was much more athletic than Kyle Hamilton. But the player that I think he's reminiscent of is Justin Simmons. And if you remember, Justin Simmons ran 461. He ran 461 at the combine, and we saw how successful he's been with the Broncos. So I think that's a very apt comparison for him. And it's also, you know, you better be able to play the run and come down and play the run. You're going to be a New York jet if you're taking it for, and people are going to be a fucking ball on you for a few years.

Ceylon, let me go to five and seven with the Giants. I know we talked about the offensive tackles and whether or not Daniel Jones is the guy or it's a rebuild. A lot of teams like to start in the trenches. I'm curious if you think there's a big drop-off from Neil and Aquano to guys like cross, pinning, etc. How much of a crapshoot? Do you think tackle is a bigger crapshoot than others or less of one?

because the Giants were just here when Andrew Thomas, instead of Beckton, Worf's, wills, and it seems as unpredictable a position as others. No, it didn't. So it seems as unpredictable as maybe more unpredictable in other positions, but you might not agree with that in terms of projecting at this stage.

A lot of people don't know, but Andrew Thomas actually like a stud last year. Like he really came along. He came along, and that tackle class was great. I mean, him, Beckin, as you mentioned, worse, and then wheels, too. That was a really, really good tackle class. And I don't think we have the high-end tackle talent.

Like, even what we had last year was Slater and Sewell. I think both of those guys were head and shoulders above of any of the guys that we have in this class. But if you want a franchise tackle, you better take them in the first round. And if you think about all the great tackles around the league, most of them were taken in the first round. So I think this class really has some guys that can beat those franchise left tackles. And I don't think there's a steep drop off at all. from Charles Cross or Trevor Penning. I think both of those guys are going to go on to be very successful pros.

But it's just a matter of, I think there's a little bit more flexibility with those other two guys, just because Neil has played guard. He kind of was on that Alex Leatherwood, Jonah Williams, Cam Robinson, playing of where Saban likes to start him inside before he kicks him outside, just because he wants him to gain that experience. And then Alabama has so many studs of where sometimes you just don't want to move guys, just because they've been playing there for two years. And then you bring in that four or five-star freshman,

but you want to get him on the field. So you play him at center or guard. So that's what happened with Neil initially. He played that right guard, I believe it was, for 15 games. And then after that, he went from right tackle to left tackle, which is where he played during his sophomore in his junior year. And then with the Kuanu, some people are going to say he's a little bit undersized. They don't like the measurables at 6 foot 4 or 320.

So some people like him a little bit better at guard, which I mean, I don't have any problem with, but I think with tackle being in such a premium position, you don't want to take a guard that early, especially with him showing on tape that he's already more than capable of holding up that tackle. So I like those two guys at the top. But on cross and pinning, I like both of those guys too, but I don't think they have any flexibility to kick inside just because they've never done it before. And the cross, he's a really, really linear built type of prospect.

And if you ever look at him, he's really, really thin, wasted. And I think he's a tackle type all the way. And he came into Mississippi State at 270 pounds. And now he weighed in at the combine at 310 pounds. And we're talking about a kid that was only a rich or sophomore last. So he packed on 50 pounds and three years, but the weight looked really good on them. And then penning, penning is more, I think he's probably the more stoutly built of all the tackle prospects outside of Evan Neal.

I think he came in at about 6'7, 325 pounds. But you're talking about somebody that is just plays through the echo of the whistle. Every single down, he's that type. And if you go back and watch some of his highlights from the Senior Bowl, he about took out Desmond Ritter's ACL just because he just slung a defensive end right into him. I always say with offensive linemen, though, you would rather have to calm down the physicality as opposed to coaching it into them,

just because I think physicality is something that you have to want as soon as you step onto the field. And he's one of those guys that you have to tone it down a little bit, or otherwise he's going to be a penalty magnet. I'll take that. I mean, guys have made great careers out of being that guy, and I'm not, you know, somebody like Ryan Jensen, I'm not discounting how good he is between the whistles.

But in the echo of the whistle, it's important, too. I always, when you were talking about guys that just don't stop and they're almost annoying, it's like the Marshall Yonder rule I always bring up. There was always a hand on your back. There was always like somebody with the extra shove. And that's like such an important tone setting piece. And to your point, I have never seen a guy coming to league and change who he is as an offensive lineman. Like nobody ever came to the league and we said, hey, that guy's soft mentally his first year and then became like an absolute dog by year six.

I've never seen it. Another thing that, you know, you pointed out was that kind of like, made me think of to Bricka Shaw Ferguson. I don't know how long cross his arms are, but I remember when Brick got to UVA, I mean, he was probably 250, he started against Penn State and gave up three sacks. His freshman year,

but Brick would drink insure by the case to gain weight. And sure enough, like after three years of drinking inshore, he was 315, I believe it was. I believe if you're that slender bodybuild guy with, you know, that high-wasted guy, that kind of like that athletic shape, you have to have long arms. So I wonder how long crosses. Another thing is like with the measurable hand size has been coming up, like with the

quarterbacks, right? You would think maybe a year after Joe Burrow, everybody would stop paying attention to hand size after everything he did. But Kenny Pickett could have copy and paste at his tweet. And in fact, I think he did. Pickett eight and a half inch hands. Was that what it was? I read that he didn't have a great combine.

And is that true? Because I also saw in that analysis that 4-7 was underwhelming. And I was going to say that's pretty damn good, seeing he's not a little guy. I mean, for a pocket-type pass or who can get out and run, I like 4-7. How did he look on the field? And do you worry about the hand-side stuff? Yeah, you know, honestly, Chris, I don't really put a whole bunch of stock into how the quarterbacks throw at the combine just because, I mean, they're throwing to foreign surroundings.

They don't know any of these guys that they're throwing to unless one of them, played on the team with them. But I think just with the timing of those guys, it's really hard to gauge some of these quarterbacks, especially when you're throwing these timing-based routes, like quickouts, and they'll comebacks and things like that. So I don't really knock guys too much for that. But one thing I think where Pickett did mess up a little bit with is that he should have just measured his hand at the senior bowl just because now it makes it seem like he was

kind of trying to hide something. So I think he should have just went ahead and measured at the senior bowl and then do it again at the combine just because now there's this whole storyline of where you're kind of inviting entry or it makes it seem like you're trying to hide something with the hand just because you skip that part of the portion of the way in at the senior bowl so go ahead and do it go ahead and do it at the senior bowl it's not going to change yeah you can do exercises you can do exercises you can't do exercises they're tendons yeah yeah you can hey that's funny like whoever was advising him to skip that the first time around and wait until everybody's watching

to see how small your hand is. Like, that person should not get any advice taken from them again. I, like, listen, I know that every time we do this hand-sized thing, we go, hey, but quarterback X, Y, and Z had small hands, and they're all really good. But then, like, name me the other 300 that had under 9-inch hands and tell me, like, how these guys are probably more outliers, in my opinion. But, you know, like, just having played guys who cough the football up and, you know, being able to, you never notice how strong Cam Newton is with the football in the pocket or, you know,

another guy is with the football in the pocket until you chop down on their arm and try to tomahawk the fucking ball out and they don't see it coming. It doesn't come out. Like Josh Allen, I don't know how big his hands were, but nobody counts those. And I just think like, if I'm measuring hands, I'm actually going to be pretty swayed by that information I get. Having said that, I think if you're Matt Rule, you just take a quarterback. You take Kenny Pickett, the guy that committed to you at Temple, and you bask in the irony, and you take another swing at a quarterback. They need somebody that can help them right now. And is Willis, is Willis off the board at 6?

No, I don't think so. Oh, I don't. Hey, can we praise Willis for a little bit? Let's praise Willis. I'm a big Willis fan. Make it case for Willis going to Hall of Fame in 97. Well, I will say this about him. He just fits the modern-day quarterback as far as the mobility aspect.

just seeing that guy, the ball come off of his hand. It's like it has smoke leaving his hand. Like his velocity is just different. Like even at the senior bowl, so there was one practice. It was the Wednesday practice of where it was just like a downpour. Like guys could barely grip the ball. The guys were struggling to push the ball in the rain.

You know, wet ball's a little bit different. It's heavier. But he's just constantly rocketing the ball. And like, why receivers are trying to catch it? And it's like that extra jolt that they have with their hands. Like the weather, the weather elements did not, affect him at all, but he's so exciting. But the one thing about him is that I don't think he's ready

right now just because he has some things that he needs to clean up. So my dream landing spot for him, though, is eight to Atlanta. I really like his fit there. Matt Ryan is probably on the last few years of his legs right now, even though Matt still playing well, but I think it's time for them to kind of think about the heir apparent there. And I think with Kyle Pitts and then continuing to surround some weapons for Malik, and that's a situation of where he wouldn't be rushing to duty either. So Atlanta is my dream situation for him, but there's a lot of steam that Pittsburgh could trade up for him just because we know Tomlin,

he's going to want that position solidified, and they don't have an answer right now. And they're saying Mason Rudolph or Dwayne Haskins could be the guy, but I mean, let's just be realistic. That's a whole thing. The veterans in that locker room are not going to be satisfied with that. So there's a lot of steam that they could trade up from 20 in front of the Panthers at six or at five with the Giants.

With the Giants having two top 10 picks, the Giants could be looking to trade back too. So jumping up from 20 to 5 would take like a Patrick Mahomes type of deal. But, I mean, Mike Tomlin, we've seen that he's not scared to give away those first round picks like he did with Mick and Fitzpatrick and then some years past too. So Pittsburgh is one area where he could land to. But I wanted to go to a situation of where he's not, where he has to sit or he can sit and learn for a year or two just because I don't think he's ready right now.

So a dream situation will be Atlanta at 8 for him. Hey, I love Malik Willis. I'd love him in Atlanta for all. all the reason you just mentioned. Another thing is like Atlanta is sitting in a division that's like a power vacuum right now. It's like there's just, hey, I don't know what's going on in Tampa, Carolinas. I mean, they found themselves upshitz Creek faster than I thought they could find themselves there with Matt Rule. And then the saints, you know, are cat hell trotting out, you know, a fullback at quarterback.

So I, this is, that would be a really intriguing place for him, Atlanta. So, yeah, speaking of Atlanta, did you just see the breaking news about Kyle and Ridley? So he got suspended for the whole season next year, betting on games. No. Yeah. Download, bet, win. No. So wait, this is a delicate situation because of the mental health stuff, but like, and certainly those things, those two things could exist, like, independently of each other.

But are we, is it being insinuated that he went home and then bet on games when he was at home because it wasn't on. team? Yes. Okay. Well, so all these things can still be true. Well, tell me this, Malik Willis, picking up, you know, helping a homeless guy, I believe that one. The guy that picked the trash, I don't believe that because he knows there's cameras in the building. He very well might be a great guy who doesn't know how the internet works. But I can tell you, and I want to break this news on this podcast here, that Jolani Woods, a rising star, that everybody's going to know about in three years. I witnessed him. There was a pregnant lady in a busy intersection back in Charlottesville, and he sprinted out into the road, a good 40-yard dash, bench-pressed her off of the end of the median where she was safe and then helped deliver the baby.

And I saw that. I saw that with my own eyes, and that's a real thing that happened about two months ago in Charlottesville. And I just wanted to get that news out there in case it helps his draft stock, Virginia's Jolani Woods, who benched how many times making? 24. 24, probably ran great, probably did everything great. He's a high character guy, too. So since everybody's picking up trash and helping homeless guys, I just wanted to throw that out there.

Okay, now that we've covered Jolani Woods, the man, tell us about Jolani Woods, the prospect. He's awesome. And my first exposure to him, my first exposure to him was at. at the East West Shrine game in Las Vegas. And I wasn't, you know, I didn't know a whole bunch about Jelani. I knew that he was a converted quarterback at Oklahoma State. They used them in line as a blocker for the most part. But transfers to Virginia and just lights it up,

like finish second to basically every record that Heath Miller ever set. And so I'm walking out to practice. And the tight ends and the offensive tackles are working together, like on double team drills. And I'm like, is this dude a tackle or a tackle? tight in. So I look down at the printed roster and his number, I think it was like 84 or something like that. And I was like, man, does he have the wrong jersey on or something like that? I mean, this guy is 6'7, 260 pounds. And I'm like, oh, my God, that's a tight end. And then he goes out and

he runs routes and he looks fluid. And I'm like, man, like, who is this guy? I was like, oh, wow, that's Jalani Wood. So yeah, he's that project that you take in the third or the fourth round that I think could be a really, really good player for you. Now, he does need to work on as far as he's blocking right now just because he simply doesn't know how to do it. Like he doesn't, his technique isn't super sharp right now. But once he gained some exposure to it, I think this, like, this dude's, his potential is like through the roof. And the name that I wrote down just watching him, and he's bigger than this guy was

Mo Alley Cox from the Indianapolis coach. Like he reminds me a ton of Mo Alley. He has that basketball background. I mean, he can boss guys out at the catch point. He can go up and attack it. So as a number two tight end right away as a rookie, I mean, I'm all for it somewhere late day two, early day three. And he's a great guy, as I mentioned earlier.

I mean, I've seen it with my own two eyes. Get that news out there. All right. More breaking news, Chris. Your 10-yard split was 1.55. Oh, wow. I was really, before I got hurt, I was a motherfucker now, guys. I know you have to tear up.

You find the old stuff, but I was really put you off the ball. Damn near Tyreek Hill out there. And that's the old turf, dude. A new turf, I'd probably run a 1-4. So about that turf. You're kind of wrapping this whole conversation. up. Indy, they're what their leases up. They got a, the NFL's going to find another place maybe to run the combine next year. Is that why they installed new turf to try to get the agents to

say, hey, no, we want to stay in Indy. Where could it be? Do you think Indy's the right place? I don't want you ruffle any feathers, but you got anything off the board in your mind as far as the location for the combine. Well, I love Andy just because everything's right there from a hotel aspect. The hospital's right there. The skywalk is there to where you don't have to experience any of that weather. But the weather was actually nice when we were there. Like it was over 40 or 50 degrees every day, except one day. It was like 25. But outside of that, like it was nice every single day. But normal Indianapolis weather is usually pretty frigid there. So you have the skywalk, you have the hospitals, you have the eatery that is all there. Everything's so compact and so tight knit. That's what I

love about Indianapolis. Now, the three locations that's being discussed are Las Vegas. I think Las Vegas would be a disaster just from a prospect standpoint. There's just too much temptation for the prospect. Like if you get in trouble in Indianapolis, your damn sure going to get in trouble in Las Vegas. Like, how did you find trouble in Indy, dude? Like, L.A. is the other one just because, you know, the NFL headquarters.

NFL headquarters is building a new headquarters out there. And then everything's moving to the West Coast. And then the last one is Dallas. I think they want to have it at the Star and Frisco. That's the other location. Like Jerry Jones is making a huge push for it. just because Jerry Jones, he's a money guy. He knows the combine is turning into a monetary thing.

So it's between Dallas, Las Vegas, and LA, if they decide to move it. They need to throw like Appleton in there. So there's one distraction-free. Just in case, there should be an optional combine. If you just want to go do your business and not, you know, scroll through IG all night and go to go to Geo Tags and hit the parties and all that stuff. Whatever kids are doing now, you should go to Appleton. They should have a combine in Appleton.

It's totally distraction-free. Okay, so the last question. Give me one guy who I shouldn't panic about who had terrible numbers, and maybe one guy who I should panic about who had bad numbers. One guy, I don't think you should panic about. His name is Kyler Gordon from Washington. He's a cornerback, and everyone was labeling him as a freak coming into the event, even some scouts that I talked to, thought he was going to run in the 4-4s,

jump over 40 plus in the vertical, and then have some ridiculous broad jump numbers, but it just didn't come to fruition. I think he ended up running like 4-60. I think that was his official time. But he's a bigger corner at about six foot right at 200 pounds. So I don't think you should panic at all about that. As far as a guy you should worry about, honestly, there wasn't anybody that, like, had terrible numbers that you should worry about just because it was such a fast surface

that nobody just had, like, demoralizing or awful numbers like we've seen in years past. So nobody really, like, pops away right away. in my mind as far as like having super bad numbers that you should worry about. But one guy that did test bad that you shouldn't worry a whole bunch about is Washington Corner, Kyle Gordon. Okay, got it. Well, speaking of Corners, I love the, I love the kid from UTSA who ran 4-2-7. I don't think we're paying attention to Long Arms corner. It's kind of like, it's kind of like we should pay, we should put more of a premium on D-Tackles, the low center of gravity, and long arms. I think arms are such a big deal, especially for like press corners and that sort of

So we never got to talk about the corners. I will add this one. Barno, I did see him walk by some trash on the street. He's a Virginia Tech guy. You know, you probably have some characters concerns there. So I just want to leave that. But Jordan Reed, this is awesome, man. I feel like I watched the Combine.

I appreciate all the hard work and the awesome content you push out on draft stuff, man. Very good info, and you can catch them on ESPN. And Jordan, thanks so much. No problem. Thanks as always, Chris. Always a pleasure. All right, buddy. See you. When your business is starting its championship run, nothing matters more than finding and hiring the best team.

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the day Calvin Ridley got caught gambling. That's way better than the day I took. Actually, the moment I took my steps, the Challenger exploded. Are you serious? Promise you. Like I was walking and my mom was cheering

and then the Challenger exploded on TV. Bro, that's the day I was born. You were born the day the Challenger exploded. Wow. That's Kingston for the record. I was I was born the day OJ Simpson was born some years later You guys share a birthday

You and OJ? Yeah yeah yeah 9th of July Oh you knew that Yeah yeah I know that one well All right Chris so Calvin Ridley Could he possibly Have been unclear about the rules No

Well I think you'd be surprised man Like there are technicalities that maybe I could have been busted for, you know, the last three years out of league. Calvin Ridley maybe did not understand that he was not on a team. Was he on the team? He was on the team technically. They hold his rights, but he was not on the active roster. Maybe in his mind he had moved on from football.

Like, I don't know. Like, there's a lot that's a guy might think, well, this is my plan of action and nobody else knows that plan of action. At that point, he might have decided he was retiring from the game football. I think what's tough about this is that Calvin Ridley, by all accounts, a great guy, great teammate, you know, going through some issues. And this certainly doesn't cancel those issues out. That's one of the scariest things about this.

Are some people going to belittle him on the mental health thing because he got busted gambling? I can tell you that having a mental health issue and gambling are not, how do you say, they're not mutually exclusive. I hit the win bed app all the time. So I've just, those two things don't cancel each other out. I also don't think Calvin Ridley thought, hey, I'm on a team. From what it sounds like, he was gambling. And you have the dates handy.

So you can tell me which Falcons games he was gambling on. But he was putting the Falcons to win in his three, five and eight team parlays. Which is the biggest issue. That's the biggest issue of them all. I mean, we've got a decision-making issue. Like, it's quite possible that Calvin Ridley, A, thought he was going to do something that he wasn't. Maybe he's coming back to play evidence by him taking the interview in November,

like a week after where he subsequently admitted getting busted for gambling in these three, five, and eight team parlays, which I love. But betting on the Falcons, like he was Pete Rosen, the Falcons. That might be, as you put it, the biggest red flag there. I mean, like, who were they playing in late November? Well, that's the issue. It's an even bigger issue and a slippery slug. because they messed around and won.

They beat the Jacksonville Jaguar. So this literally is breaking now, and we're not going to have every date right, but he stepped away from the team on Halloween. He gets popped during a five-day span when he's using an app in Florida, and the NFL had some sort of back agent, super top double secret way to figure out,

they had a snitching app, like built into this one betting sort. service. And so three, five, and eight team parles, uh, including the Falcons to win. The Falcons beat the Jags during this five day span 2114 in Jacksonville. That's the thing. That's Falcons jags. Like what kind of, here's a guy who believes in his team. I don't care if it's a jacks. Like I want to spin this. Like he believes in his boys, dude. Like to bet on the Falcons, if I was in a Calvin Ridley situation playing for the Rams, I would have never put the Rams in my like parlay.

Like this guy is he's maniacal in his love for the falcons. I say he went back with open arms. One of these newsbreakers said that he didn't use any insider information in his gambling. How? If you're on the team

for years and for the current season, let's say three months, August, September, October, and then you're placing a bet within four weeks. Don't you know some things about the squad. I mean, even if he's betting on the Falcons, I think that's insider trading adjacent. Okay. So let's, so let's, I'm, I don't think, I think it's a big deal because it's a learning.

It's a teachable moment for the NFL. Like, I think it's a big opportunity, but I don't think it's a big deal. I'll put it that way. I think like as far as Calvin Ridley's concerned, I would have no concerns about him being back on my football team or about signing Calvin Ridley. I'd want to know, you know, where his head's at. How does he feel? How is he physically? But this thing to me is it's a teachable moment for the NFL where guys can learn that, hey, like, you need to think twice and check your status on the team and realize that, like, not only is it illegal, but you will get caught. Like, we have watchdog stuff kind of baked into any app you're using, even sketchy Florida apps. I don't think it's that big of a deal. And to kind of play devil's advocate, you know, you're talking about betting on the Falcons.

inside information is information when you bet against your team. I know technically you can stuff have inside information on the Falcons, like maybe a guy's getting back from injury, that sort of thing. But what could have been happening before they played the Jags on the injury news front that could possibly gain him an advantage? It is impossible to gain an advantage betting on the Falcons. I'm being funny, but I'm not because, like, I put it this way.

If he was betting against the Falcons, right? and he had inside information on a player on his team not playing. Then, and he takes the other side of that, but then he is in effect like cheating the system, right? And that's what they want to avoid, and they want to avoid guys giving out inside information. This is a big tricky thing. I don't think that there's any piece of information

unless you showed me that maybe Matt Ryan was out and they were going to get him back and nobody knew about that, that he was placing the wager with inside information. That was really pertinent. I think it's obviously a teachable moment, as I said, but I don't think this is some huge character strike. He said it was $1,500. That's it. Buddy, we called the win bet hotline for, you know, like gambling addiction.

And there's a guy in Michigan on that hotline that will tell you you have a gambling problem if you place one bet. So he replied and said that he just has another year to get healthy is what he recently tweeted. And, you know, in his head, if he's like, I'm working on a two-year kind of, on a runway to get back into the NFL and actually be this is a guy he's not he's not betting on a game that he's playing in he's not telling somebody to drop a ball he's not you know benefiting from insider knowledge on something about his team negatively and betting against them like i think this is something that you have to slap them on the wrist hard right but this isn't something that would would deter me from signing and calvin ridley in the future no i got a question

of the NFL. That's is is Calvin now currently out of the league and then follow up to Calvin have you any more winners because Falcons money line. That's pretty impressive. That wasn't a fart. That was my table shifting. Did y'all hear that or no? Oh yeah. Okay, good. So anyways, yeah, Calvin, you can come on the show anytime. We don't ask you about like the whole thing. We just want to ask you if you have winners. Like, think about it. What are the Falcons paying you. Maybe we can pay you more. Kingston, you said this isn't a big deal. Like, you're on my side of the argument, making you're saying, like, I don't think it's a big deal because it's $1,500 and he's not using inside information. Like if he was really trying to profit

from it, he'd be betting a lot more than that, I would think. So I think it's something for leisure that he was doing in his downtime. And as you said, should be a learning experience because I bet there's a lot of guys in the NFL that are like, oh, shit, I want to make sure I don't accidentally, you know, lose my position by making a dumb bet for a relatively trivial amount of money. Well, the NFL's got to contend with this stuff because as this gambling stuff gets more prevalent and accessible, I mean, like, we love gambling. Gambling's a big part of it, but you don't want guys becoming kind of targets for people that are trying to turn a profit. I don't blame the NFL for coming down on him hard, but like for me, it's my

mostly about the fact that he was betting on his team. And when you're betting on your team, kind of like Pete Rose was betting on the Reds back in the day, it doesn't bother me as much. It's likely not as slippery a slope as it would be in college athletics where I know we got NIL, but where the kids aren't being paid. For Headache Smith,

missing a free throw, which he can control very easily and get a game under, could result in a big time payday. This thought popped in and Cowboy reads on the group chat like clockwork, Calvin was scheduled to make 11.1 million in 2022, and you say, wow, that's a big mistake, and yeah, it is. But point being, a book's not going to see, not going to take an enormous bet on a falcons under

and then take a look at the field goal kicker, who's Young Way, Ku, by the way. It's just too hard to do. Football players make too much money. It would have to be, it would have to be some pool. a pool of gamblers to make it worthwhile for NFL players to be influencing games. I mean, like, certainly one position can change everything in the NFL. Like, there are certain people that touch the ball every play.

There's kickers. There's that sort of thing. I just think injuries are kind of the sweet spot for inside information with the NFL. Like, we don't really know what's going on in the general public. I know that there's a lot of transparency with injuries and that sort of thing. But being out of the league, what I realize is I don't know shit. Like, there is a definite level of gamesmanship that kind of protects, even with the transparency, a lot of it for the gambling population. The NFL can't 100% handicap games, and players can do that better than anybody based on the inside information.

Think about a guy being up for a game, or this guy's up. What does that mean? I've been up for games where I could not walk into the stadium, and they were shooting my ankle up. Like, dude, if a ball carrier has that problem, questionable is not a one-size-fits-all thing. Doubtful is not a one-size-fits-all thing. You know about things that don't show up on the injury reports. A guy's going through something in his personal life, this, that, and the third. There's a whole range of things that can affect the outcome of ballgame that if gamblers have that information,

that could turn the tide for them. Not many of the issues that we're talking about here are like headaches, Smith. Like, what we're talking about is access to information, and players have that, and the league doesn't want guys getting involved with that. It's not only bad for the league, but it's also bad for gambling. Like, it's bad for the way gamblers look at the NFL. If things start to go awry and guys are throwing games or spreading misinformation or game in the system, then people are like, why would I bet on this game? It's a shit show. We don't know. I think the NFL wants to avoid that planning to see the doubt in, you know, in fans' heads who are spending their money to

not only watch games, but to gamble on games. And then also they don't want their players looking shitty and they don't want the outcome changed. Some of this is unavoidable, but what I don't want is that Calvin Ridley becomes the example guy. Like, I know they have to make an example, but you have players in the league that have been caught on camera, beating women who have been suspended for less than we're talking about suspending Calvin Ridley for placing a fucking five-leg parlay and betting on the Falcons.

Like betting on the Falcons. It's like if anything, he deserves like, oh, that's cute. You bet on the Falcons. Minor infraction, big time consequences, warranted or not, I think all your points are well taken. They need to nip it in the bud

and he's going to be the example and probably poster child because we don't really remember Josh Shaw. We don't remember Paul Horning for gambling. We don't, this has happened a handful of times. And to put a bow on it, it appears that Calvin's attempting to tweet through this. So I'll just catch you up for the moment. We started with, I bet 1,500 total, I don't have a gambling problem.

Then we went, I couldn't even watch football at that point. Next was just going to be more healthy when I come back. And now we're at, I was wrong. I know I was wrong, but I'm getting one. year, L.O.L. I agree. And I would tell Calvin this, wrong place, wrong time, dude. That's the whole thing. Like, if you were number two, it's all about setting the precedent. Like, it's all about setting the precedent. Do I think what he did is a year suspension bad compared to everybody else? I just outlined there's some people who shouldn't be back in the league. Like, people that have done

really bad things in the NFL. Yeah. They've gotten less. This guy plays a parlay for a couple hundred dollars and he bet on his team. And he's going to have to sit for probably a year. You know, we'll see what happens to the appeals. And yeah, it's kind of fucked up. And things can be fucked up, but also kind of predictable. I mean, like, this is reality. The NFL is a billion-dollar industry. Gambling is like the future for it.

And they want to protect that. So unfortunately, you're patient zero. Patient zero is not the guy in Arizona who nobody heard of two years ago with everything that's changed in the gambling landscape. Patient zero is Calvin Ridley. and that fucking sucks for him, right? But it's medicine he's probably going to have to take, and that sucks. And it doesn't have to be right, but it can achieve the right outcome.

And I think that's what the NFL is probably trying to do. I don't think it's as big a deal as a one-year suspension, but I kind of get where they're coming from, too. Yeah, that's a good take. Prepare yourself for a lot of bad takes, but I think that's right. What kind of takes for people firing off right now? Do people want them never to play again? Like, what are people saying right now?

Well, I'm going to both sides it. I think you'll have he should, he should be slapped on the wrist. And then I think you'll, you'll have, my God, the NFL. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, it's not that bad guys. Anybody in girls sitting at home wondering if the product is ruined because a guy, you know, did a parlay in Florida when he was sitting out for the rest of the year. like believe me the game's not played in a hangar and guys are trying as hard as they possibly can

because as we outlined it'd be really hard for most players on the team to affect the outcome of a game if you're trying to get to the centers get to the centers on the team yep get to the centers it's going to be like six bad snaps before they're benched i also feel like i also feel like tackles could do a number like whoops yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure. Kickers, maybe, kickoffs out of bounds. Kickers, for sure. Holders. Holders. It's really that special team's room.

Yeah, we're looking at you. A hecker type who will toss it too. I hate to say it. He muffed a hold recently. Yeah. Well, we might want to go back to the tape on that one. Speaking of the Rams. Nice. How about that? Yeah. Von Miller, who seems to have been effectively a rental in L.A.

wants to go back to Denver. And I'm at sea level. So when I saw that tweet, I was like, that's cryptic as fuck, 5280. Like, I know it means Denver, but he wants to go back to Denver. He wants that old thing back. But what does that mean? And reads like, oh, that's, sir, that's the altitude, you idiot. He wants to go back to Denver.

and he's making that clear. And I think the most interesting thing about this whole situation is it is quite possible put on your conspiracy hat here that Denver's like, fine, fuck it. You come back in six months, we'll get some picks for you, we'll be even better when you get back. We'll tell you in February, no tampering. If Aaron Rogers is going to be coming to town, if Russell Wilson is going to be coming to town, I think, and Reid, I don't want to get you really excited here, but Von Miller knows something's happening.

And, you know, Rogers got the big, Rogers got the big deal we're hearing about, I don't think that's going to be enough because money's not going to fill that hole. You know, whatever hole he's got that he's trying to fill. I hate that I've said this twice now. But he's not happy up there, right? So, like, maybe Von Miller knows something, you know, and on top of that, when you ship Von Miller to L.A., it's a better chance the Chiefs don't win the Super Bowl. Like, this could, not that the Chiefs ended up there, but there's no negative if you know that there could be a comeback on the horizon in Denver to ship him down to L.A., accrue a couple

picks, and we'll talk to you in February. I think this could be awesome. Another thing is, like, he's won a Super Bowl in Denver. He's won a Super Bowl away from Denver. This guy's done everything. He's a Hall of Famer. And the sweetest one could be the third one. I know that's what he's thinking.

Like, I want to do what I just did here as a veteran, you know, 10 years in the league, being through what I've been through, the injuries, the ups and downs. How sweet would it be to go back to Denver and be a part of, you know, a third one? And that's how guys think. and he might cash in because he looked really good with the Rams, especially down the stretch. He's about to turn 33. Cowboy, how do you, as a Broncos fan,

how do you feel about this guy? For me, it's one of us. One of us. Yeah, he's the man. I agree. I'm sure he knows something, and he's trying to get back on the Broncos train and get back with the,

try to get Aaron Rogers to Denver and ride that party to another Super Bowl. I'm telling you, dude, there's something in the air in Denver, and it's not just the reefer, Reed. I think, I think, I think something happens here. You know, I partially say that because we were joking earlier about I was playing games in my head with Cleveland. I was like, you know, could Cleveland ship Miles Garrett and a one? I'm just crazy scenarios in my head, like who's going to land these two guys that are probably trade candidates? Well, Russell Wilson is not going to go somewhere like Cleveland, right?

Any of these flyover states, and I just put Cleveland in a flyover state, I know technically that's not with Cleveland, anything that's not coastal or has like a movie star vibe to it, like Russ is going to pound that no trade clause, right? So Cleveland, something like that's not an option. Something like New York could happen, right, with a Russ or, you know, probably more so Russ because there's that entertainment side of the coin there in New York, which, of course I joked earlier, like you'd probably be just as bad as the Seahawks were before the trade, just enough to finish second in the NFC East or something. Denver's the most interesting

one. We've talked about this a lot. Washington's popped up when it comes to Russ or to Aaron, but like Denver is a place that I could see both Russ and Aaron. And I think, I think Vaughn is the type of guy who's going to not only know what kind of moves they're going to make, but he might actually be the type of guy that Nathaniel Hackett. Daniel. It's just Thanniel. Daniel Hackett, John Elway, whoever

the fuck, is going to listen to. What do you think? I'm not saying he's going to be the guy that signs off on the trade, but he's a fixture. I mean, he's going to retire and be one of the, I don't know, Reed, where would you put him in celebrated Broncos? Like,

the top three to five celebrated Broncos of all time? What? Yes. What? Absolutely. Three to five? Yes. Watch this. Watch this. Watch this. Okay. I don't know any Broncos. Watch this. John Elway. Yes. Terrell Davis. No.

Steve Atwater. No. Steve Atwater? Von Miller. I'm not. I know some people listening are like, you didn't see Steve Atwater play. Yes, I did. And he's the coolest fucking guy ever. I'm just saying you can't say he's a slam dunk legacy pick over Von Miller in Denver. Von Miller brought them a Super Bowl and brought Peyton Manning his second Super Bowl. He was a leader of a defense that was historically good. There is no no-fly zone if there's not a fucking air traffic control center. And he's that guy.

And not only that, he's got charisma. And this is the time when the game's the most popular. So I'm not saying, yeah, I put him in the top three to five influential legacy type Broncos. Floyd Little. See, you're reaching out. You realize this wasn't going to be as easy as Shannon Sharp. You gave me, no, you gave me

a running back who played seven years. Champ Bailey. Amazing player, Hall of Famer. Von Miller is one of one, bro. And Vaughn Miller is coming back home. People love it when you come back home, bro. After the Patriots game, I'm no fucking Von Miller, but I was in the locker room

when the Rams came to New England. and William Hayes came and got me and I went to the locker room to see a couple guys. Like when you come back, like you're a hot commodity, bro. Like when you're gone, those guys didn't want anything to fucking do for me with me when I was limping around earlier.

Vaughn Miller coming back is going to be the hottest ticket in Denver. And I think he deserves to weigh in on kind of where things are. Now, I think they're going to make the move. But Vaughn, in Denver, he knows something. Brock Osweiler? yeah he's up there I mean from height standpoint but you get the picture

Von Miller will you concede this top five definitely top four I'll concede I'll concede top five okay

that cool you might have fired off a bad take no no no you guys did a did a nice job I thought Broncos might have some more names in their history they do not there's a lot of great players listen like

Um, Mecklenburg. I love Carl Mecklenburg. 77 career sacks or something. Maybe actually it was more than that. Carl Mecklenburg, uh, right? He was a guy in the 70s, maybe read. 79, six. I was close. All right.

So Carl Mecklenburg, Steve Atwater. Let's just name some random Bronco. Steve Outwater's mine. Maybe. Lala Azeido? Lala Azado? Three Raiders, Lila Azado, bro. There was a lot of great Broncos.

I'm not disrespecting the Broncos. I'm just saying, Bob Miller special. Is this your notebook, big guy? It is. Don't read what's in it. I have no idea. I'm using it today in the studio, and it says, Macon's attitude, colon, bad, period.

Adjustable question mark. And I was just wondering what you meant by that. Maybe it was a joke. But actually, I'm serious, though. That is the question. Good attitude. I'm so happy to be here, dog. Now, can I complain about being here when you're not?

Is that really what's in the notebook? No, that was a joke. Do you think something like that could possibly be in this notebook? Yes. Since you brought it up, it can't get fine. But you've been great, man. You've been great.

Thanks, man. Your attitude is like Andrew Thomas. Oh, thank you. A lot of people like we were earlier, clinging to the past, but he was actually not that bad this year. I do want to apologize there, Andrew Thomas the way we kind of, anyway.

Tell me what happened. Was it Friday night? Saturday night. Saturday night. So a lot of funny things. Damn, my fucking chair move. That's not a fart, guys. A lot of funny things have happened over the course of history.

God, like, Cal once went for a ride on a water slide. A failed reality show host won the presidency. but goddam if coach k getting blown out in his final game at cameron after the farewell tour that he insisted upon if that's not the funniest thing i've ever seen i don't know what it was amazing and it began with uh texas in kansas going into overtime and they had to double box coach k walking on to the floor for the final time in cameron

because Kansas and Texas was still going on. Yes, it was amazing. They had pushed back tip off 15, 20 minutes just so we could see this pregame ceremony with all his former players, and they're in a double box, which was just amazing. ESPN complicit in all of this idolatry, and they can't even pull off the pregame ceremony.

And so I've decided sincerely that he's an egomaniac, and I don't know the guy personally, but how can you not be with, in June, deciding that you're going to do a farewell tour with signing off on pregame and postgame ceremonies after your final home game, golly day.

He voiced over his own video tribute. So there's a video tribute postgame showing all the great things he's ever done. And this was the trick. He kept talking about Cameron door and how is the greatest venue in sports. But if you just trade out the word Cameron, every time he says Cameron, if you trade out for Shoshesky,

he's really just talking about himself the entire time. And he voiced it over himself. That's a strange move. But so we finally get to the game. The tip off Duke fumbles out of bounds. And it's like, okay, we might have something here. And I'm no Carolina fan. It was, you know, I wish it had been really anybody else.

But the fact that it was Carolina obviously stings a lot more for the Dukies. He seemed to be trying to coach more than he often does because he knows every camera was on him. ACC Network had a coach K-cam that you could watch the entire game. And it was really, we've talked about the living funeral a bunch from Kerb. But that's essentially what we were watching for the 75-year-old jet blacked hair. Mike Shoshievsky. I think, here's my take. He is the greatest villain in sports

who happens to think that he's the greatest hero. And that's where I think the egomania comes in where he can't see the forest for the trees. And I thought Tate Frazier put it well. Do yourselves a favor. Go listen to Titus and Tate, their recap. He described Mike as a spoiled brat. I don't want to pile on the cat, you know?

I think that says it pretty appropriately. That's how we acts. The post-game ceremony was just delightful after a 13-point loss to Carolina. You tried out the AD and the president and all of his family members, and he yells at the Cameron Crazies to be quiet. And the only thing I can say nice about the Cameron Crazies is that they're actually attending Duke. They have matriculated to the school, unlike most Duke fans. And like Carolina fans as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the Duke fans who are like, we don't get the hate. Here's the hate. Here's where it comes from, folks. Chris Carrowell with the blowby and the handshake line of Hubert Davis. Nolan Smith with the no look handshake to try to tell Hubert Davis, you're not worthy of my eye contact. I mean, that comes from the top.

Fellows, you're being petty. It's really because Carolina didn't on. coach Shishvsky at the game in Chapel Hill. Like really? They're your biggest rival. I'm just glad it was Carolina. As you said, like,

it would have been great if it was Wake Forest or something. That would have been perfect. But Carolina, as bad as I hate to see them win, it was great to see them beat Duke. And the whole thing just came down perfectly. And I wish I would have seen that. That's the one break on my vacation.

I should have taken to take in some Coach K finale. ESPN dropped the, bottom line so we could have a full screen of the post game celebration. I mean, that's historic stuff. I think he's a villain that we will miss. Absolutely. Absolutely. Jay J.J. Reddick likes him for the record. Oh, does he? When we asked that fucking question, dude, the other day, I know when somebody's, I always say, it's not what you, you know, it's kind of what you don't say, like that tells you more about what you think about a coach or a teammate or that sort of thing. JJ was like, his body language is like, actually, believe it or not, he's fucking awesome.

Like, and I'm sure there's a lot of players who feel that way that played for him. Coach K, as much as he's hated, I think at the very least has the respect of, and I think they genuinely get a different side of him. You know, I think they do. Like, I got to see a different side of Bill Belichick, totally different side of that guy. You know, and I never hated him anyways, but I can imagine why some people might saw a totally different side of him. So I want to be fair to Duke, which is a weird thing to say. Yeah, I'm glad they lost.

I just want to know what word that starts with a P, Coach K called JJ. JJ didn't reveal it. Could it have been? Punk. Park Ranger. Pook a shell little bitch. Pathfinder Party person

Alliteration, huh? Yeah. Can you imagine camping outside of Cameron and that had to be the longest like wait. That had to be Black Friday times three to get into Cameron for this one. And they were saying people turned down

six figure offers for good seats for that game. That's the most beautiful part for me. That's gorgeous. That's gorgeous. And you know another thing I love is seeing people like there's crying, they're sobbing, and then there's weeping. Like, weeping is what people do at funerals that you didn't plan for.

There were co-eds weeping, weeping in the stands. They weren't surrendered, co-bering, they weren't, like, shocked. They were at an untimely death funeral. And then they gave him a bench. They named a bench after him on the campus. And I get it. You already named the court after them. What more can you do?

They named a bench in his honor. You watched them, you know, for years very closely as a Virginia fan. Is this the end of that era? Like, we're just never going back here. You know how some schools can, like, Roy Williams made UNC better. Like, a place where they named a building after somebody, they actually got better. I don't see that happening with Duke. What do you think the future looks like?

I think Shires. the smart hire because if it doesn't work, you get away with firing the alum who gave it his best shot and then you go after, you try to attract a big name. If it were today, it'd be a Brad Stevens type. Frankly, it would be a Tony Bennett type too. But I think you go with the alum, try it out. There's continuity. Coach K's handpicked guy. The class coming in is awesome. I think they're still going to be good, but they're going to be down years with more frequency. Like, they weren't great every year with Coach K, most years, but there was the year, for instance,

where they went 4 and 16 without them in the mid-90s, and he gave all of those losses to Pete Gaudet, which is not common practice for head coaches. I think, yeah, I think they will always be relevant, always a blue blood, but not unlike Carolina, Kentucky, UCLA, They will go away for periods of time and they'll always come back, but it's not going to be like this. This sort of sustained success.

Golly day, I don't know if we certainly don't see it over 42 years again. But no, I don't think Duke will be Duke as we have known them from here on out. But they're always going to be, they're always going to be around for better or worse. Who do you think, has anybody made that transition from like legend to success or? serve really well. I know in basketball, it's a lot easier. Like, right?

I mean, because a lot of it is, hey, the hay is in the barn. We recruit well. We know we're going to have McDonald's, all Americans. We've got great facilities and it only takes two guys. You know, it only takes a couple

really great recruits. Who's done it really well? And then, do you remember any of that, like, I don't know, because I'm not, no secret. I don't follow it as close as you. Is anybody, what was the biggest letdown

after a legend left town that you can remember. I think Roy Williams, Kansas went from Roy Williams to Bill's self. That's worked out. That was great. That was great. Bill Grothridge won a NCAA title after Dean Smith. Didn't coach for that long.

Yeah. And then they went into a tailspin with Matt Doherty. I don't remember the guy's name who followed John Wooden. Bartow. Gene Bartow. Did he win a lot of games? No, that's the one I was going to say. It's kind of disappointing, but it's hard to follow John Wooden, obviously.

John Wooden is It's like meeting a nice girl and pictures of her and Lexington Steele in the house that's what following John Wooden's like Lexington Steels a guy, yeah? You laughed. I think you know Lexington's still.

Well, he just gets mentioned so often on this podcast. I mean, if you He's a poke hero. We don't like Coach K, JJ Redick likes Coach K, Duke's not going to be as good. That was some of the best TV of all time Saturday night. Got it. I am going to go back and watch it when I get home. And that's going to be

fun. So there was some more good TV on Sunday night if you were able to catch episode one of winning time. So I'm truly on vacation. And I apologize to Jeff Perlman. I did not watch winning time. I know I'll be able to watch it. In fact, I'm a big binge guy, if not for content. So any takeaways? You might wait. And sometimes it's nice to let a few episodes build up so you can watch them in order just as long as you don't go to the last one first by accident but uh rank them one to rank it one to 10 kinksin the premiere i give it a solid nine oh very very good has adam mackay's signature like all over it breaking the fourth wall fun it's a drama laden with comedy a few of the basketball scenes gave me a little bit of pause that

that was my one complaint okay okay okay so let me just say this and we'll all do respect to adam mackay who love the guy, would love to have him on the podcast. Michael Shannon was in, was supposed to be in winning time. And he was like, nah, too much fourth wall. And all I'm saying is like, I kind of hate fourth wall stuff. I think it's hard to get that right. And then is that when they like start to talk to me? Yeah, I don't need that.

And usually there's some like cute like fast-paced music playing in the background. And they're over explaining the plot. Like I'm a big, and I've said this before, like I want the plot peeled like an onion. Like I want, you know, and obviously this is different. This isn't like a fictional show, but Michael Shannon thought there was too much fourth wall. And I'm not really into dramas that are, you know, like peppered with comedy. Oh, that's my genre. You love drama. Yeah. Dramedies. I, you know, like, I'm not worried about it. I just think it's probably a lot of fourth wall. And, uh, and I'm prepared to maybe not love the fourth wall.

But I have heard good reviews, so I'm excited about it. And I loved the portrayal of Jerry West. The Jerry West character is my favorite right now. They cast that bad boy. Perfect. That was a guy from Zero Dark 30. Yeah, Jason Clark. Yeah, he's great.

So looking forward to that. Hey, if you get within 1,000 feet of Charlottesville, Virginia sea level, I will have done this pod for free. Oh, easy. Within 1,000 feet? That's right. Yeah, 1500. It's like literally... You want to be a bit more exact?

No, you said 1,000 feet. I'm not going to change my shit to... Like, I don't care about being right. I care about you squirming because you're not going to have as much money. We're at 594 feet. I owe you a game check. I put it at 1,500 just to cover my bases. You're a good gambler. Hey, thank you. I appreciate it. Look at his leg's shaking. You really didn't think I'd get within a thousand feet of that?

you're just feeling generous. I'm feeling generous. Oh, and what a feeling that is. I hope it stays that way, and I can't wait to see you guys when I get back. Hey, Reed, good to have you back in the office, buddy. Who's going to break this to him? I mean, it's been... He's not here.

Oh, Reed's not in there. No. He's on the... What do you have long COVID? The COVID Cowboys at home. You've made him come to work. I've been delighted to be at work because I'm contractually I'm obligated to be delighted every time I'm here now.

But the COVID Cowboys been at home. whole time. Oh man. I kept being like, can we get read on? And, you know, the connection was bad. So I could have scrolled over and seen the on my, uh, oh, Doc John, but y'all take care. Goodense to todos.