Green Light with Chris Long - Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl LIV Winning DC Steve Spagnuolo

Episode Date: February 7, 2020

0:24 - Open and Introduction. 3:11 - Ken Flajole. 20:36 - Steve Spagnuolo. 48:37 - Chris on SB LIV. About Chalk Media: Following the unfiltered voice and vision of Chris Long, Chalk Media is the interactive online community for you, the intelligent and humorous sports fan. Driven by access, Chalk delivers a unique perspective that cuts through the canned talking points and provides a variety of content from your favorite sports and entertainment celebrities. Here at Chalk, we don’t take ourselves too seriously, but we are rooted in challenging the perception of professional athletes. We embrace the “real” with a unique combination of humor and intelligence. Chalk is a community with a voice beyond 240 characters that brings a perspective and vibe to a traditionally brash and boastful sports media space. Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more. Nothing is off limits at Chalk - hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Greenlight Pod. I'm your host, Chris Long, and it is the offseason. I love it. I'm just as happy as I was when I was a player because I was burnt out between doing two Greenlight pods, one ringer pod, Thursday night football with Kay Adams and James Coe on NFL Next. It was a lot. And now this opens up the schedule a little bit.

We're currently figuring out what day of the week we're going to do our one day a week with me and my co-host Macon and our traditional Greenlight Pod and I'm going to drop in and do content like this whenever I want. This week I wanted to talk about Steve Spagnolo. When it came to the Super Bowl, there's one guy that I thought was, you know, a storyline that wasn't hit enough and that was coordinator, Steve Spagnolo, obviously famous for his 2007 run with the Giants where he slayed the dragon and Tom Brady. But also in the middle there, there were some rough, rough,

years. You know, obviously he was a head coach of the Rams. That didn't work out. I was there for that. You know, and although Spags didn't work out in St. Louis, I always rooted for him. He's a good dude. Obviously, a very good coordinator. Ended up in New Orleans and had, you know, a historically bad year heading up that defense, but there were a lot of factors there. We'll discuss those and more. And then being able to climb the mountaintop again and win a second ring with Kansas City on a defense that I worried was the liability on the team going into the season. Spags, who was given a second chance by Andy Reed, propelled them slowly but surely into a strength. And down the stretch and the playoffs, they did enough in the run game,

especially those last two games to keep Derek Henry at bay and to keep the Niners at bay to a degree, keep the points down. and allow their offense to engineer three really historic comebacks, you know, when you put them all together along the way to a Super Bowl championship. So I'm gonna talk to Ken Flagell. He was my de-coordinator in St. Louis under Spags,

long-time buddy of Spags. We're gonna pick his brain about Spags, and then we're gonna talk to Spags himself. And by the way, Ken was in New Orleans with Spags and was with me when we won a Super Bowl in Philly. So I know, know, Flagell well. Obviously, I've kept in contact with Steve. We're going to talk to Steve here from the horse's mouth about this run and what it took to get back up on top of the

mountain. So stay tuned. Let's just bring on, let's bring on Flageal right off the top. Joining me now on the Greenlight Pod, one of my favorite coaches, so much so that he's immortalized on my rib cage. Ken Flageel, 21 years he spent in college before he got in the N.I. NFL, paid his dues, 1998, got to start with the Packers, Super Bowl champion with the Philadelphia Eagles, longtime linebacker coach, defensive coordinator for the Rams. Again, Ken Flagell, one of my favorite coaches. Ken, how are we doing? We're doing great, and I would just a shout out to you, one of my favorite players. There we go. That's what I'm talking about. And you've had a lengthy career, coached a lot of them, so I will take that as a big compliment. But you kind of have to say

that when I lose a bet and get your face tattooed on my rip cage. Well, that's true. But you know what? I mean, it's made your marriage probably survive because your wife's at least waking up to a good-looking guy every morning. The funniest thing is when you saw her at camp and what did you say to her when you saw her at training camp? Well, I went over there. I figured, well, you know, if you've got my face tattooed on your body, the least I can do is go over and introduce myself. I don't think I've met you yet. She goes, I know who you are. I wake up next to you every morning. That's just what you want to. That's just what you want to hear from your wife when she meets one of your coaches. But Flage, the reason we're on, and there's plenty of eagles to talk about, but we're talking about our friend, Steve Spagnolo,

who is now a two-time Super Bowl champion, did a remarkable job this year, I thought, with that Kansas City defense. How long have you known Spags and how did you guys get involved professionally? Well, it goes back before our NFL career. You know, we were, when I was coaching with Andy Reed at Texas El Paso, Chris. Wow. Steve Spagnolo was good friends with our linebacker coach, a guy named Steve Tielander. And he used to come out and visit all the time, and we'd clinic together. And I kind of got to know him through that.

And then, lo and behold, you know, just over the course of a lot of years, you know, we just kind of kept in touch, kept stayed friends. And then, you know, when he got in with the Philadelphia Eagles, that was his first experience in the NFL with Coach Reed. And, you know, and Andy and I had a background because we had coached together in college. You just kind of seemed to fit. Yeah, and before you guys ended up, you know, and the way I knew you guys is obviously you were my coordinator in St. Louis and Spaggs was the head coach. He was my third head coach by my second or third year. But, you know, that kind of shows you the situation we were all.

stepping into in St. Louis, but you had, you had been to the top of the mountain, and this is relevant because, of course, Spaggs had his ups and downs, and you had been to the top of the mountain with Carolina, right? In 2003, you had been to the Super Bowl, and you guys lost a close one, and then winning one in Philly, take me through as a coach, and I know I've talked about this with players, they say there's no worse feeling than losing the Super Bowl, you might as well not be there and no better feeling to win in the Super Bowl, which we both know. As a coach, what are the

differences in when you wake up the next day and the staff gets together, after a loss and after a win? Well, the first thing is, and you can put your two cents in on this one, Chris. You know how hard it is to get to that game. I mean, it's such a competitive league. I'm sure you played with guys.

I know I've coached with people that have said, you know, I've been coaching in this league for 25 years, and I've never been to the Super Bowl. So the first thing that it came to my mind was, man, it's hard to get to that game. And when you lose it, you always wonder, will I ever have an opportunity to get back to this game, number one, and then number two, be fortunate enough to win it. You just realize how rare it is to play in those games, to coach in those games. And so, you know, when we lost the first one against New England in Super Bowl 38, first thing I'm thinking of is,

man, I don't know, they may be thrown dirt on me by the time I get back to that game. You just never know if you're going to get another opportunity to coach in it. Yeah, and Spag certainly had probably moments in his career and wondering, and any coach does. But Spag's even more so, and you were there for some of the lows because that year in New Orleans when he was a D.C., and I think you were the DB coach, and we can laugh about it now because you're a champion, and you guys are both back on top of the mountaintop with Spag. now winning in Kansas City and doing really a masterful job. But that was a historically bad year.

You know, take me through, you know, was there one low point that year that you remember? How bad was it? And do you wonder, when you come out of that as a coach, I know as players, we often get, you know, the opportunity the next year to come back and play better. But coaches, it's a tough business. There's a lot of hiring and firings.

And obviously you guys hit the road for respective spots. Do you wonder at that point, like, was this too bad to recover from? What was the low point? Well, yeah, I mean, just the whole dynamic of it. You know, that was the bounty year when Sean Peyton was suspended. And Joe Vit was our assistant head coach, and he was suspended for six games. So not only did we not have the head coach in the building, the assistant head coach was out of the building for six weeks. And our offensive line coach was a guy named Aaron Promer.

Aaron was the interim head coach. Joe Vitt was serving his suspension. So it was just, you know, the first thing you're looking at is you're just saying, hey, who's leading the ship and how's this thing going to roll? And then, you know, there was a big scheme change, Chris. You know, Greg Williams was the head was the D.C. Before we went there and Greg was a very high pressure, high man guy. We were a little bit more zones.

So trying to transition into that was created problems. You know, it set us back probably a little bit. And just the whole chemistry and dynamics were different. And we played so poorly on defense. You know, you do wonder. You wonder sometimes you say, gee, Wes, you know, I'm going to be able to recover from this. You've got your name on it.

So it certainly was a trying time. There's no doubt. But, you know, as Spags shows, you know, he kind of recovered from it. You know, he went to Baltimore after that for a couple years as the DB coach before he got a chance to go back to the Giants. So it all kind of worked out in the long run. It's amazing. And by the way, you guys were also dealing with some key players that year who were out.

I think Vilma missed a long time, right? And Will Smith, God rest his soul, missed a long time as well. Some of your key players. And it's hard when you do change schemes. Yeah. We're having a knee, and he had been a mainstay on their defense. And so, yeah, we were missing some key points. But as you know, nobody in the league feels sorry for you, right?

No, and that's the hard part. I mean, it gets lost in the shuffle is, you know, these are people with jobs and you guys both have lengthy, and all the coaches on the staff have lengthy success resumes, successful resumes. And any year it can go really bad in the NFL, and it just happened to be that year for you guys. And I just wondered if there was one moment you remembered where, you know, there was a low point that year or a point where you're like, yeah, this isn't going right. Yeah, you know what? I'm sure there was it. You know, I guess like human nature, you try to blank out when the things are I hear you. I hear you played. I hear you. We just kept grinding.

And I'm sure at one point in time, we thought to ourselves, man, we're not, you know, we're not, we're not coaching very good. We're not playing very good. And be quite frank with you, I don't think our quarterback was having a great year that year. I want to say he led the league in interceptions, which, as you guys know, as good as that guy is. Yeah. For him to do that, you know, that's a little uncharacteristic for him. So I think there was just a bad to go around all over the place. And that's what happens when you have a bad year.

I mean, some people don't realize how much the offense and defense play into each other and the complimentary football aspect of it. You know, and I'm sure when you get to New Orleans and there's guys that are accustomed to, you know, brilliant quarterback play, brilliant offensive production, that takes the pressure off the defense and then from a personnel standpoint, that whole thing, snowballs. When you get out of that, you know, Spags,

you know, did he take a year off or did he go to Baltimore? What was the timeline of that? I want to say what he did is he waited a little bit, but he went into Baltimore the next year kind of as a senior defensive assistant and kind of just helped where he could. And then I want to say the next year, maybe he ended up taking over the secondary form for a year.

And then it transferred where he got back to New York again. But, you know, it was a transition time for him. And, you know, probably gave him a chance to maybe refresh his batteries a little bit. And Baltimore was a decent team at that time. So, you know, he got a chance maybe to polish up his resume a little bit. So, but he's, listen, Chris, you've been around Steve for three years. You know, you know him as a coach. And he's, he's a warrior.

Yeah. He's going to keep battling and he's going to keep doing the things that he thinks are the right things to do. He's, you know, he has a never say die attitude. So you've got to give the guy a lot of kudos for what he's done. And then off, obviously, you know, going into Kansas City. And really defensively, they didn't play well at the beginning of the year. but they got incrementally better, I think, as the year went along. We always knew that they could score points.

The offense was very good. But, you know, I mean, to me, the testament for me as a coach is watching those guys and saying, did they get better through the course of the year? And I think we could all agree they did. Yeah, they absolutely did. And when you talk to players there, and one, I think what makes the story amazing is you got a guy who comes on the scene in 07, deals with the adversity that we just mentioned. you know, in that low point where everybody writes you for dead.

And then you climb the ladder again. And now he's a Super Bowl champion two times. And doing it with a group that to me, you know, you looked at in Kansas City traditionally is not a liability, but not the strength of the team. And they go into this year, and that's probably their biggest question mark is the defense. There's personnel issues.

They're not as talented by any stretch of the imagination. as the 07 team that he climbed the mountain with in New York, with all those guys up front, Antonio Pierce, Madison, in the secondary, you know, three levels of defense, great players at all three levels. You kind of wondered how they'd improve, but you talked to guys in Kansas City, and there wasn't one big turning point, as much as we like to make it easily digestible and understandable as fans or media members, we say, what's the turning point? What was the one thing?

Well, sometimes there's no one thing. it sounds like they just grinded it out. Right. And you know, any time you come in and there's a new scheme, there's a period of adjustment as a player. You know, there's different, even though the coverages sound like they're the same and the fronts and the pressure sound like they're the same,

there's a different expectation level from the coaches standpoint, meaning there's a certain emphasis when we play this coverage. These are the things we see taken away. Well, you might have played the same coverage a year ago with the different defensive staff, but they had a different emphasis point. So there's always a learning curve, I think. As you know, going in on this thing, you know, you bring in a new coordinator, you've got new position coaches, and there's a learning curve.

But again, to their benefit, those guys continue to get better, and obviously they embraced the detail of what they were doing and helped them, got them to the big game and got them over the top. What do you think makes Spaggs a really good defensive coordinator if you had to talk about his strengths? Well, I think number one, and again, from my time being with him, I think number one, he understands protections well. So I think when you get to third down, and you know as a premier defensive end in this league how important it is to get the opportunity to get to third down and rush the passer. but I think he understands protections well enough that whether he's either pressuring or whether he's in a four-man rush, he's going to align the people sufficiently enough that he's going to get the right one-on-one matchups or the right overloads if he is pressuring.

I think that's the number one thing. I think he's got a unique ability to identify what each individual player does well. and I think he tries to accommodate their strengths within the scheme, meaning if they need to change or create another wrinkle somewhere to get a guy to take advantage of a guy's special talent. I think he does that. And I just think, you know what, Chris, I think he's just a good human being. And people, I think, gravitate to that, and they like to play hard for people that are good people,

and they know that they've got their best interests at heart. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. and you mentioned him being, you know, resilient. You have to be dealing with the highs and lows in the NFL. He's hardworking. He used to sleep at the facility. I think more nights than Maria would have liked in St. Louis. We used to bust his balls about that.

And then, you know, as you mentioned, he's a good person. You know, he really invests himself in the guys off the field. I think he cares about him. And I think he also, like, has learned from his failures. Like we all do in the league. Like, you know, I've had to. bad years as a player. He's had years that weren't so good as a coach. And, you know, it's cool to see him come out on the other side and seem to have learned from it. Do you see anything different

this year as you looked at their group schematically? I know different personnel groups have different calling cards. I know he's been like a big fire zone guy, for instance. You know, like when you looked at the chiefs this year, where you, did anything stand out as something that you're like, oh, Spaggs has evolved in some ways or changed? Yeah, I think, you know, I think that's true probably with all of us, right? This game never stays the same. I think they're always evolving as a coach. You know, he'll run a certain pressure and I'll maybe watch him on some cross film that we get off of the Chiefs

or you're watching them play on TV and you say, oh, yeah, I remember that. We called that such and such. But I certainly think, I think it's time in Baltimore. You know, they were a lot more of a post-defensive team than maybe we were when I I was with them. I think that's probably influenced them a little bit. And, you know, Chris, I mean, listen, one thing that you do in the offseason coaching this league is you study who's good at doing things on third down,

rush defense, goal line defense, all those things. So you're always picking and stealing ideas off of tape. And I just think that's just part of the evolution. The longer you're in this thing, you know, you go and you study the teams. hey, give me the top third down teams in the leg. And you look at the top five and you say, okay, let's go watch them. Let's see what they're doing. If there's something that we can gain from watching them, I just think that's just the evolution.

If you really take pride in your work and you take pride in being a coach, that's just, I think, natural off-season work for you is study people that are doing it well in the leg and see if you can find a wrinkle or something that can help you become a little bit better. Absolutely. And I know that's what you're doing right now. I have Flage, I pulled him out of a meeting. This is how awesome Coach Flage is still taking care of his players. Appreciate you joining me.

I know that we both were excited for Spags. When you're around good people in league, you know, it is a business at the end of the day, but you pull for the guys you know. And it was very cool to see him get another one. Now he's got two. And I look forward to seeing you with two on your finger here soon, buddy. Well, I appreciate that. And listen, you are a big part of getting my first one.

If we didn't have guys like Chris Long in our locker room, I don't know if we're hoisting that Lombardi Trophy. So kudos to you as well. I appreciate you, bud. I'll come visit. Don't worry, I'm not removing the tat. If anything, just call me if you get any more gray hairs and I can update it. I appreciate that, buddy.

Okay, Pledge. Well, I'll talk to you soon, bud. See you. Well, that was Ken Flagell, obviously, a long time. NFL coach, coach me in Philly, coach me in St. Louis, but more importantly, really tight with Steve Spagnolo, defensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs,

who did a wonderful job down the stretch, improving that team and making that defense a real strength for the world champion Kansas City Chiefs. So joining us now, I guess we'll call it the Greenlight Hotline, is Steve Spagnolo. Welcome to the Greenlight Pod. this is the man of the hour. This is the guy we're talking about for an entire pod here.

My former head coach and two-time Super Bowl champion now, defensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chief, Steve Spagnolo. Steve, coach, how you doing, man? Have you slept? Not much, Chris, but that's okay. I got plenty of time in the off-season to catch up on that. You know what it's like. Yeah. Long ago. So it's, I'll bet you enjoy it. I have a lot more than I am because I know you spent up late tonight, hours more than I did. Yeah.

I kept that as a reasonable time. I kind of imagine when I texted you last night that you might be in bed. And, and, you know, I was more on the Travis Kelsey train as far as the partying and enjoy it. I wouldn't expect anything left. I wouldn't expect anything left. How was the parade?

Like, you guys kicked it off with a car chase in Kansas City. That's pretty exciting. Yeah, we look, our guys on their phones, they caught wind of it while we were. rallying up, you know, north of the city and getting on the, uh, the double-decker buses and all that, but exciting. You know how it is when you're in middle of it. It was interesting, Chris,

because, you know, I was blessed enough to do a similar thing in New York City. Yeah. When we want it in New York, and completely different, you know, it's high rises and it's a city and you only go about a half a mile. It feels like, you know, you're going five miles, but in Kansas City, it was terrific because it was a two-mile stretch, constantly moving with people on the sides of the street, you know, that's like you went through in Philadelphia, and just a great thing, really a great thing to watch our players go through. They just had, you know, smiles on their faces the whole day, they hop off the bus, they interact with the crowd, and just a great thing to watch. I agree. It's, it's my favorite thing about winning a Super Bowl

is actually, I mean, there's the game, but that parade, as much as the game for me, I wanted it to slow down. I want to be able to go back. I wish more than anything, I had a GoPro or something. You know, it's the one time an entire city just stops and everybody gets along and everybody rallies around. Because the entire year you do things as a fan base, but not everybody gets to go to the games

and everybody goes to the parade. Yeah, you make a good point. The interaction of the people. And I remember distinctly, Chris, I mean, you and I have Philadelphia roots. And you know how Philadelphia can be sometimes. But it was great to see all of the people come together. There was a little, you know, a little pushing and chuffing,

and that doesn't happen too often. No, no, not in Philly. People out here in the Midwest, Chris, it's terrific. You know that, haven't been in St. Yeah. Just to see the hug and how much they enjoy it, it's been a long time coming here in Kansas City. I'm just glad I had a small part in it.

And listen, you know, Coach Reed, I'm sure you know Coach Reed well enough to know that everybody in the world was pulling for them, other than San Francisco fans. Yeah, even them, though, I think they could understand it. I think even the San Francisco fans aren't mad at him because, you know, everything you know about them is as a first-class human. And I think you're underselling your part here,

but I'm going to hold your feet to the fire here. You were a big part of 07. That was kind of, you know, you were famous for that run. You know, you hop on the scene in New York. You've got this, which is its own group of, its own, you know, you've got your host of challenges with an established group. I mean, you've got a, it's different almost than having a bunch of, you know, unestablished guys. You've got Strahan. You've got OSE. You've got a number of guys,

Antonio Pierce, Madison, and the secondary. So, you know, there's that job, which you get so much credit for. And then there's this job you do, which is totally different in so many ways this year. And I think you deserve a ton of credit for. What's the difference? Because when I won my second Super Bowl as a player, I felt like I could soak it in more. I understood it more. The first time was like a blur. Did you feel that as a coach? That's a great point, Chris.

I really did. Listen, that run went on 2007 was magical. And for a lot of different reasons, this one, you know, it was kind of a little bit slow in developing from the defensive side, but just kind of built up. But, you know, there's a common thread to all of it, Chris, and it's player leadership. I mean, I get way too much credit for what happened on defense.

This is a player, this is a player business and an assistant coaches business. That's the other thing I think that gets overlooked. I was blessed to have, and you know some of the coaches on the defensive staff here, Matt House, Brendan Daly, Dave Merritt, Sam Madison, to have those guys operating with the players the way they did is huge. When I went to New York, I inherited a staff of guys that were terrific. And the interaction between the assistant coaches and the play is to get it to the point where it was good enough to win or have something to do with winning the Super Bowl ring is huge. And it's just great as a coordinator sit back and watch that.

I just thought the job that our assistant coaches did in the players and representing what the coaches were trying to convey to them was huge. Made all the difference in the world. Well, it's huge. And yeah, one guy you mentioned, Brett and Daley, who was my defensive line coach in St. Lewis, you know, under you, and then I got to reunite with him in New England. And I see him before the game. And, you know, obviously I'm rooting for you guys. I know a bunch of y'all. And, you know, BD's got about three, four rings on his fingers now. He's running out of fingers.

He's really, he's got the Michael Jordan thing going. Yeah, he does. But when I, when I, when, oh, he's a heck of a coach. Yeah. And when I talk to guys on the team, because I know a few of them, And I ask, you know, when was the turning point? Because there's always we as coaches, and I said this to Flage earlier, or we as players and, you know, fans or, you know, guys who aren't coaches and maybe don't get it from the outside looking in.

We always look to make it easy to understand, like, what was the one thing that changed for the defense? Because to be honest, you know, I'm not going to bullshit. I'm coming to the year and I'm wondering with some of the personnel, some of the unheralded guys, Kansas City's defense, the history is you look at it as an offensive team. I thought, you know, maybe even if you did a great job, you'd have to overcome some deficiencies.

You guys started to become a reason why you win. And when I talked to the guys, there was not like, oh, it was this game, it was this coaching point. There was, it was a grind. We just grinded it out. Spag's a new coach. He's doing a lot of new players. It was a grind.

I know there was the Denver game. You guys coming in a short week and playing well, but was there a turning point for you? Was it just a grind? It was very much to cry. I would say this, Chris, there was a point in the season before the Denver game. The Denver game actually gave us the confidence to believe in what we were doing. But prior to that, when we were having a little bit of a struggle,

I remember one meeting when I went in front of the guys, and I just asked them if they would just trust their way to improvement. In other words, let's not worry about all the way down the road or what's happened behind us, but how about every day we just get better than what we were before that? and they bought into that. Now, I know that sounds simple, but that's really what it comes down to, Chris. Yeah.

Instead of bailing out, the guys embraced it, they bought into it. And that's where I think the assistant coaches came in the play, and the play is receiving what the assistant coaches received them. And we just kind of gradually got better, you know, and when you have a game like he hadn't done, but come on four, you know, it's four quick days.

You had nine sacks or something. You and I know, Chris, it's sax isn't the overall one that makes you great or not great. No. It gives you confidence as a team. And that was the game Patrick that heard in, and certainly defense played well. So we won that game.

I think I gave our guys a sense of, hey, we actually did something good for the team. You know, part of the reason we won instead of failing. And I think that just kind of built. And with guys like the Honey Badger and Frank, Clark, Anthony Hitchie, I mean, a bunch of guys that were solid people, just kept that all together and we just got better and better. Yeah, and I think there's also an element there

that a lot of people from the outside end don't realize is that sometimes when Mahomes gets hurt or somebody that you rely on as a security blanket, it makes you tighten up. You think you're going 100%, but you have an extra gear, you have an extra focus, you have another level in the tank,

and I think sometimes, you know, like when we lost Carson and we had to rally around Nick, and of course the more thing was only a couple weeks, but it probably reset you guys to a degree. I think you're right about that. You know, I went through the same thing when we were in Philadelphia with coaching. I don't remember.

which year, I want to say it was 0-2-0-3 and Duned-Nap got hurt for the last five games and I think Jeff Garcia came in, but it was the same thing on defense. Everybody knew Ryan Dawkins and Jeremiah Trottes, they all knew that he had to step our game up

for the benefit of the team because we were missing one of our key players. I think the same thing happened here in that three-game stretch, and you're right about what you went to the Philadelphia, Chris, and it was an amazing thing to watch when you guys went through it really was. Yeah, and And that's the sign of a team, man.

And you guys passed that test, and that was around the time where people were like, okay, well, this chief team looks like it's for real. They are who we thought they were, which is a Super Bowl contender. But early on, a lot of people wrote you off. And you mentioned one guy from a leadership perspective

that keeps coming up, and that's the Honey Badger. You know, kind of an under-the-radar free agent acquisition in a way, because it's not like, you know, I think he's been, if anything, underrated in this league for a while. I would agree with that.

And what do he bring to your defense from a leadership perspective, but then from, you know, comprehensively in coverage and the run game, the whole nine yards? Yeah, well, you know what, Chris, and you've played with these kind of guys, he's all football. Yeah. Like, he loves, you know, I love the guys that love to play the game. So there was that coming in.

And when we did the research in pre-agency, and there were a bunch of different safeties, and I'd call around to people that I trust. I had one coach that I knew very well. He was down in Hughes, and I asked him about the Honey Badger. And his comment that stuck in my mind was, he said, coach, he said, this guy, the day he walked through the door, changed the culture of our football team. Now, when I heard that quote on somebody, my ears went up, and then, of course, I watched the film and thought he was really good player.

So I just asked Brett Beach and Coach Reid if we could get this guy. And thank God we did. He walked in the first day. Here are some of the little things, Chris, to pick out. That in the front row, the very first unit meeting, never took his eyes off me. And every other player around him is watching that. So that has something to do. He was not a big vocal guy early because he was kind of feeling his way through.

You know, you knew. And all guys have pride and ego in this business. And but slowly but surely, he did. got more vocal and it got to the point where he could make guys accountable. You know, there's only certain players in a unit and a group that can actually do that. Yeah. And guys respond to it. He's one of those guys.

You know, Chris, that in this business of pro football, when you can be secure enough as players around each other to make each other accountable, challenge each other, we use Proverbs 2717, iron chop and Zion. And when you can do that as a unit, you just, you get better. Each guy gets better because they respect the guy next to him. And that happened this year on Honey Brad Jones is the guy that kind of excited it. It also helps when he's making plays on the field and he made a ton of them. So I look at the front and obviously, you know, you're used to having really good fronts. I mean, it's not everywhere you've gone, but you've seen good fronts. I thought Chris Jones was as dominant as any defensive player in the playoffs going in.

I was thinking to myself, they're going to need him. to step up. How big was it for him to overcome that calf injury? Because that's a tricky one. Yeah. I'm looking at that and I had one in the playoffs once and I said, man, I'm nervous about that. They're going to the Tennessee game. They really need him because the first time y'all played Tennessee, you lost, but Chris was dominant. And I was thinking to myself, if he's not on the field, they're in trouble. No, you're right. And we didn't even have Chris for the first playoff game. Yeah. because he injured it in that game before,

and then he wasn't 100% when we got him in the Tennessee game. Of course, you know how it is, Chris? His juices were flowing for him in the game, so he played a lot more. Yeah, it can help. It can help. The adrenaline can help. No question.

He has an inside presence. He's dominant in there. And it makes the other guys better because, let's face it, if he turned the film on, you know, he gets doubled a lot. The center turns to him a lot, which opens it up for somebody else. And we needed that. But I thought that whole group kind of jimbing.

Delvin, a lot of that has to do with Brendan Daly, as you and I've talked about, kind of kept those guys all together. And listen, in this game, whether it's offensive defense, you and I both know, Chris, that it all begins up fun. Usually these teams at the end that win this thing, you know, have an offensive and defensive line that's somewhere along the way with a reason for making things go as good as they did. And that certainly is the case at our team here in Kansas City.

And you mentioned, you know, we talk about Frank Clark, and I thought it's funny because I've always really liked Frank. He's so springy. He stays alive in the rush. He's never out of it. You know, the one rush that reminded me of that was the rush on the Juan in the championship game where, you know, he's countermoved, counter move off the counter move, and he just doesn't stop.

And when he got to Kansas City, I knew it was going to pay off, but you had a lot of people early because the sack numbers weren't coming for a number of reasons that are counting him out, calling in an idiotic move, and he goes off in the playoffs. Was there a point where you, you know, turned up the motivation? I remember with me, you know, I was a high paid player, used to motivate me in a number of ways. And I think a lot of my, you know, 13 sack year, my career year, my contract years. And the years beyond had to do with having coaches like you that kind of found different ways to motivate me. Was it a motivation thing or was it just, Frank figuring out the defense or getting him more third and longs.

Well, I would say this, Chris, first of all, I appreciate the compliment, but I would say, as you were talking about Frank, the guy that I think of when you talk about Frank and how relentlessly is Chris Wong. He did. Same way when you played. He did, I swear to you, he reminded, he reminded me of a young Springer or me. You know. Springer, I like that word. Yeah.

But no, you're probably right, but I think we did a lot of correlations between you and him. And listen, the other thing that I don't think. people realize about Frank. Frank was battling early on, whether it was a shoulder or a, I don't know if it was a sting or Chris or what you'd get, but you know, that's hard for a defensive lineman when you can't use all your power and

strength. And it wasn't until mid-season that I remember having a conversation with him and him feeling like he had gotten it all the way back. I mean, we were flipping them over the right and left because we didn't know what shoulder would work. And that got frustrating for him. So once that kind of cleared, it felt like

he got his strength back. You know, there was a period there where he got really sick lost like 15 pounds in a week. He doesn't have a lot to lose. It's not like he's a big, big guy. Yeah, he's a lean dude. There really he is. But once we got him healthy and he got so comfortable and confident, that relentless play that he has on Sundays eventually is going to show up because he never stops. He's one of those guys you want to play next to Chris. He's going to know what you're going to get. He's going to go 100 miles an hour no matter what.

Yeah. Well, I mean, and he seemed to have a knack for the good timing and the playoffs as well. When you went into those last two weeks, you've got Derek Henry one week, and then you have this Shanahan offense, which is just for a defensive alignment, as I watch it, all the pre-snap stuff, all the window dressing, they used motion more than anybody in the league. What were the challenges week to week? And then how do you coach the ends? As an end talking to you, one of the things I was most worried about going in the Niners game was how do you align these ends on Kittle and how do you coach them in your over defense? Yeah. It's a great. point, Chris. You know football well enough to know that. Look, it's one thing about

Kyle's offense. First of all, they had us on our heels a little bit, and I give him a lot of credit to that. But we talked about setting the edge now. It's one thing to talk about, and it's another thing to do. And you know, because you've played it. Yeah. That six technique or seven technique is one of the tougher techniques. Really hard. And yet, when you can dominate a tight end, I think it works effectively. This kiddle kidd kids is not like most tight end. Most tight end in the league now and not great run block, as you know that. Yeah. He is. Yeah.

And so that presented a little bit of a problem. So we had to throw a couple of different fronts. You know, we, we got in a little bit more under than we normally would. We gotten some edge pressures that were a little bit more than we normally would call. I thought at times it helped us. Other times it wasn't so great. You know, the reverses and all the misdirection and the gap schemes kind of gave us a little bit of a problem.

But what I credit our guys most was, you know, the challenge of Derek Henry was completely different than the Kyle Shanahan offense. Yeah. different type of run schemes. And yet, what we fed the guys during the week, they embraced, they took it to the game, and it helped us in both games. I mean, it helped us, you know, really both games in the second half. That's the other thing, too. You know, you, you know how it is, Chris, you prepare for an offense, and you can't get the speed of it from a scout team. So it kind of takes you a quarter of a half to kind of get a feel for it and get honed in. And again, our coaches do a great job on the sideline during the game. And then our players

embrace it. And we were able to do some things in the second half of both those games to help us win. So that was really great. I also, I think, I think about this, as you mentioned, like when you play in a Super Bowl, you can't catch your breath. I don't know about coaching, but, like, you're, you go out there and, like,

running 10 yards feels like you're on Mount Everest because your adrenaline pumping so hard. And I'm watching you guys at the stadium, the first 15 against Shanahan has to be terrifying. And I thought the biggest stop of the game was making them kick in the beginning because they're coming out and they're running all their stuff. Yeah, you know what we see on that drive, Chris,

and Black brought that up. And this is where experience comes into play. Terrell Suggs was huge. They tried to run a screen. We ran it all out with out by the base defense. Yeah. And we made a couple of mistakes, and we had three guys covered the fullback

and nobody on the field. Well, the fullback is covered. Yeah. Yeah, the fullback was covered. I was right the guy you really need to have three people on. No. So, Terrell Sogs sniffed out the screen. He fell back.

And because he did that, he kind of disrupted the timing of it a little bit, and we got him on the ground. Otherwise, that guy's in the end zone. So that's a four-point swing. It's a huge swing. It's a little play that certainly after you go back and watch it, you recognize. But what that is is experience, I tell you, the other guy that really helped us in the room was Threl Suggs. I don't know how well you know him, Chris, but he is a true pro. I was with him for two years in Baltimore, so I knew what we were getting.

in just the little details and then preparing for the playoffs and he had been through a super he was terrific he was awesome for everybody I think the whole team not just the defense so I I really am really glad that we're able to get in he kind of just fell in our lap when Arizona released him

and I'm glad to it yeah that was a big pickup that was a big pickup you talk about you know Andy Reid earlier obviously like all coach has been through a lot

and obviously he's been through a lot off the field, somebody that everybody roots for. But you had worked with him before. What did it mean for you to get that second chance with him? And then, you know, it'd be a part of giving him, you know, a way to convert on his second chance. Well, let me tell you something, Chris. And you know, I'm a man of faith. And my wife and I believe in that tremendously. And God was in this whole thing. I truly believe that. And just in reuniting with Andy and then able to do this. I prayed every day. My biggest fear going into the game, Chris, was that I was going to let Andy down. I did not want that to happen. You know, to get to the point where we could

win a Super Bowl for him, I just prayed immensely that just let's find a way somehow play good enough defense that we can actually get this thing for him. He, I'm indebted to him, Chris, entirely brought me in the league in 1999, you know, but brought me back here or reunited me with himself in this past season, which was, you know, just a glorious thing to have happened. I'm truly, truly happy for him. I'm glad I could have a small part in it because he's a good man. You know him well enough to know how solid he is, and the rest of the league feels the same way. You never hear a negative thing said about Andy, because there isn't anything to say there. Yeah. It's not a trick. He's really that cool and down to earth.

And one or two more before I let you go, I think one of the coolest things, things about your story and it's not cool at the time when it's happening because I know it was a trying time was for any coach or any player and I truly mean this go back and look at you know a lot of people see Steve Spagnolo this two-time Super Bowl champion guru now you know you got one generation who knows you from 07 now you've got a new generation that knows you as what you are which is a great coach but things can go bad I mean you know you had you know the St. Louis didn't work out and it's hard to be a head coach. It's a totally different animal,

and we all walked into a really screwed up situation there. But New Orleans, that was one year that everything went wrong, and you walked into the Bounty Gate stuff, you had players missing, you were switching schemes, and it was a one year stopped. I talked about this with Flage earlier. How much do you take from and use it in messaging to your players, you know, about the lows in the middle?

Yeah, great point. Chris, I don't know how much I go back to the new ones that I think people know about St. Louis. And you're right, that challenge was we went through it together and it was tough with all the injuries. And I really thought we were building something there after the 2010 season, but every year stands on its own. You know, you do learn though, Chris. And one of the things that somebody said to me, you know, I'd be surprised at how many books you get sent to you when you go through tough times. So if you don't know if you're going through a tough time, anybody listening out there,

if people are sending you books, you should probably check it out. Read a few of them anyway. But I remember somebody saying to me, Chris, it's better to, no, somebody said it this way, choose better over bitter. And the one thing you have to fight when that happens

is the bitterness. And it does no good to be bitter about what happened or what should have been or what shouldn't have been. The best thing to do is to just move on. where faith comes in the play. And thank God I have a strong life who is always encouraging. That help. Now that part of it, I can use with players because every player in this league is going to go through

a downtime. Yeah. We all do. Whether it's an injury or not playing real well. And so I do use that and share it with them. But more than anything, I turn them right to a faith in God and making sure that they lean on that and keep that always because, listen, when it's all said and done for steps, the foundation of everything.

And what did you learn from being a head coach? So that's a unique opportunity. And you've coached a long time even since that where you've had all these ways to apply. What's something that people don't realize is the hardest thing about being a head coach that you didn't expect coming into it. And then what do you take when you leave?

Yeah, you know, it's funny. As you go up any ladder in any business, I think it's probably the same with any business. I only know this one. But you have less and less of your own time to how you climb up on this thing. Like in other words, you have to be available to everybody.

So when you become a head coach, you know, that door has got to be open all the time because people need you. They need to know what you're looking for, what you want. And so there's a time thing there. And, you know, Andy and I talk about often because he goes through the same thing here. And yet we embrace it. We enjoy it. We love it because the fruits of your work can eventually end up in helping people.

It's still a people business, Chris. That's the biggest thing I would say. I would have spent, I think, in learning and going back on the St. Louis thing, I wish I'd have spent more time down with the players. In other words, whether it was in the cafeteria, or whether it was in the wait room, you know, you're so busy doing all these things that you have to do, you know, whether it's putting a schedule or a calendar together, every once in a while I would have liked to have put that down and just been around the guys

because that's the thing you missed the most. No doubt. That would be the one lesson that I would learn from that. And, yeah, I try to do that now even as a coordinator. And I'm hoping that because I had the experience as a head coach, I'm able to help guys that I work for now. Yeah. It's not like N's needs very much help,

but as a sounding board when I went to Baltimore and was working with John. I mean, I think it's good to have somebody there that you can just say, hey, what do you think about this or when you went through it, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I mean, you need the checks and balances. You need your buddies to kind of vet your hypothesis. And, I mean, I'm sure that really helps.

And you coach with a lot of great coaches. You're a great coach in your unright. So, Coach, when you're sitting there on the field and confetti's coming down, who are the first people you're thinking about outside of your family you know coaches or folks along the way that you're like I can't wait to call this person well the first thing to happen you know this question that's what I'm just looking for Maria at that point yeah it's hard how about how about this win the aFC championship here in Kansas City and I was

never able to find her no that that whole that I couldn't find it and shame on us for not having a plan of where to meet and how to do it. I mean, you kind of have a game plan to worry about. I know, but you know how coaches that, Chris. The last thing I want to talk about before the game, celebration after you, because you feel you're superstitious. But at any rate, we had a plan for this when I found. That's the first thing I'm looking for because she means so much to me.

You know, she's with you the whole time, the whole journey through the ups and downs. And so she was the most important person. And then, you know, quickly after that, it's more about, you know, the people along the way my high school coach who has passed since but i thought about him and just said a little prayer for him and all the people along the way that have been so helpful how about this though chris i was able to get over to michael strahan and your dad oh cool yeah he told me he saw you awesome he saw you yeah which is awesome i ran right over there because michael was there and just to have him be around that having gone through it with him yeah 10 12 years ago it was kind of special that was

really cool well that's a special experience and not a lot of people get to to live it twice and you earned every minute of it and i know you minimize your role but i thought you did a magnificent job uh everybody talks about 07 but i think you uh you with this group did just as good a job maybe even better so i appreciate uh everything you guys did and and loved watching it uh congrats on the championship run and hopefully we catch up soon spags thanks for joining me i know you got a busy week yeah no always always through this talk with you. Chris, I appreciate you. I love and enjoy working. Hopefully we'll get a chance to visit and enjoy some downtime. Love you too, man. Come back on the program anytime. Congrats, two-time world champion. Steve Spagnolo, congratulations, and we'll talk to you soon. So that was

Coach Spags. Great to talk to him always. I, you know, it's funny. Like I alluded to in the in the interview there with, with coach, you know, he used to motivate me. He used to motivate me in ways that I didn't like to be motivated at 23, 24. But I will always appreciate him being hard on me. And it didn't work out in St. Louis's head coach. But I think the true measure with a player coach relationship is that you do stay in touch long after football. We might not always get along, you know, in the trenches. We might argue at times. But, you know and you have low points we had one in 15 seasons in st louis we had failures um but spaggs and i and many of the coaches that that i played for have stayed in touch because

it's bigger than football and uh and guys work hard together and i respect the job that coaches do Like I said, Spags used to sleep on the couch on a regular basis. We used to bust his balls about that. One of the hardest working guys have been around. And somebody who I think is really cool because of the reasons I mentioned, he has been to the top. He's hit rock bottom. And in the middle of it, obviously, was the New Orleans year.

And some people might say, you know, some people might say, You know, the failure in St. Louis was rough, but I don't know that anybody would have been able to be successful the way that whole thing was set up in St. Louis at that time. But then to climb the mountain again in Kansas City on a team that on paper before the season, you're looking at and you're saying, this is not an elite unit.

And eventually they put a string of games together where they became a strength for that Kansas City team. You know, they, you know, Derek Henry's on a historic pace. They shut him down. Shanahan, you know, that stretch zone concept, I thought that would give them problems. I worried about the way they would align their defensive ends. I talked about that with Spags.

He had wrinkles for it. And they did enough to keep the points down and survive, especially in a situation where their offense wasn't creating and, you know, scoring points and that complementary football aspect of it can be tough, especially if you're a defense conditioned to play with Patrick Mahomes and, you know, deal with not as much adversity. They dealt with a lot of adversity in that Super Bowl, including a couple picks.

That's not something they're used to, short fields, picks, etc. But when you look back at Spags, I think it's interesting. You know, you had the 07 team, which famously knocked off Tom Brady, you know, upset city. That whole run, they didn't allow a single 20-point game from an offense, you know, defensively in the playoffs. And that includes a historically good offense in Tom Brady's Patriots where they held them to 14 points. And obviously it was led by that front. You know, they had Shrayhan, O.C., tuck. and by the way, interesting aside, and they had Fred Robbins,

a number of guys, Kiwi, Kiwanuka would come in and sub. He was more of a linebacker, Antonio Pierce, was a great linebacker, Madison, a number of guys in secondary who played big roles for them down the stretch. But interesting story, I had Mike Waffle, was my D-Line coach in St. Louis for a long time, coached under Spags, and won championships with the Giants. And sort of, the way he puts it, that kind of talked Shrayhan off the couch before that year. Shrayhan was ready to retire.

And they said, you know, one more run. You never know, one more run. You never know. Come on out. Like, come on out of retirement. I think the joke is that Shrayhan just didn't want to go to camp. And he was dragging it out. But depending on who you ask, he was ready to retire.

And he must have been really glad he came back for that historic run because they won a a world championship. And a lot of it was on the heels of that defense that Spaggs architected. And, you know, Fuel did it a couple years later. They beat the Patriots again in 2011. You know, Spags had a big part in that defense in 07. But I've been making the argument here that this run this year, and I'm not talking about the Super Bowl,

but the run in its entirety was even more impressive in some ways because Kansas City to me when I turned them on the tape on at the beginning of the year. And you could say this about the Giants, too. They gave up like, I think, 80 points, their first two games or something that year. in 07, so they turned it around. And neither defense, 07 giants, the 19 chiefs, uh, were statistically, when you look at it in DVOA elite.

I mean, they were middling defense. They were two of ironically, his most middling defenses at 13 and 14 respectively. But, um, neither, you know, the chiefs just on paper without the names that the giants had, uh, some of the guys, and then you watch them on tape at the first half of the year, they kind of look lost. And when you talk to these, uh, chiefs players, they found ways to win. They improved.

They grinded it out. You know, they dealt with adversity. They dealt with Patrick Mahomes. Obviously, as Steve mentioned, leaving the game with that dislocated knee, being out for the better part of a month. In the middle of them putting together their first big game rushing the past, they have nine sacks. It's got to be deflating to then lose your security blanket in that offense.

But they got better and better. And you know what the most interesting thing? I hate keeping going back to this, but when Spags had that year in New Orleans, it was ugly now. It was a historically bad year. It was the, you know, it was 2012, and the Saints defense that year surrendered 7,000 yards in a single season.

Broke the record by about 250 yards. Also allowed 454 points that year. And they were out the door in a year. Ken, Steve. Of course, they were missing players. It was Bounty Gate stuff. They gave up more than 43 times, including 52 to the Giants. You know, when you look at that from the outside end, even me who had played for Spags,

you wonder how he's going to recover from that. And, of course, there's a couple years there where he wasn't a coordinator again for three, four years until he got back to New York. And, you know, he bounced around. He did some stuff. Baltimore but he wasn't he wasn't a coordinator I think he had to take a year off that's a hard thing to recover from so for him for him to start on top early in his career dip all the way down to the bottom and then be able to be back on top of the

mountain I think it it deserves a lot of of praise and he he earned it he did it the hard way and Andy Reid of course you know Andy Reed gives him a second chance and ironically he is a part of helping Andy Reed cash in on his second chance in the Super Bowl so you talk to coaches or players that that played under him um you know they say he's a he's a great motivator he knows the little wrinkles that you have to make game to game you know to stick to his scheme which of course you know fire zone is a big part of it there's an over defense defensive ends play head up on the tight ends it's it's not as a tacking up front, but it's aggressive from a standpoint of bringing pressure.

One of the reasons he struggled in New Orleans is he didn't have the front. And when you're running those fire zones, it can break down terribly if you don't have D-Lyman that can win and get there. So you talk to guys about him. I hit up a number of Giants players, you know, guys that I know that played on that 07 team. And I said, am I crazy to think that this job he did this year might be even better? better than the job he did in 07.

And guys with tremendous reverence for Spag said, you know, that's not an insane assertion. He did a lot this year. And when you turned on the tape early, you wondered if they were going to be able to win in spite of their defense. And then they found ways to win late in the year, playing complimentary football with their defense. So, you know, a look back at the Giants team in 07,

they allowed 21 points a game they led in sacks with 53 obviously that front was brilliant they had like three guys in double digits you know they had eight sacks and four games in the postseason which wasn't much i think they might have had more sacks as a d-line or as a team ironically uh during this run so uh they never allowed over 20 again in the in that run in o seven and um you know a number of guys stepped up this year it was it was it was kind of it was kind of different of course you dealt with de sean watson you You had three comebacks to engineer, which the defense is part of because you have to tighten up and stop the bleeding. Then you stop Derek Henry and then in the Super Bowl. My big worry was, again, setting the edge on Kittle. How would they play that? They really played better than I thought in the run game and were a big part of win in that game. Kept the points down. So congrats to Steve Spagnolo.

Huge part. I know he downplays it of that victory. And I think if he can stick around in Kansas City, I've said this before. you know, they've got some things to improve on personnel-wise defensively. They can get better, which is scary. I'm not saying they're going to win it every year, but they're going to be in it every year. And that's part of the big power shift in the AFC is not only New England's offensive,

you know, kind of the offensive trending down in New England, but the defense trending up in Kansas City is a storyline there simultaneously. that really plays into this seismic power shift. And I'm not saying New England's not going to be back in it, but Kansas City, I think, is no longer afraid of New England, and they were for a long time. So hats off to Steve, world champs, Kansas City Chiefs. We'll be back with more green light tomorrow.

Myself, my co-host, Making Gunner, with episode, I guess, is like 27. You know, we're not going to number these little rants or impromptu pods where it's just me solo. But I'm going to have a number of them over the offseason. Stay tuned. We're going to put them on YouTube when we can. There'll be audio on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Check out everything we're doing at Chalk Media. Thanks for joining me. I'm your host Chris Long. See you tomorrow.