Green Light with Chris Long - Keyshawn Johnson On Jon Gruden's Resignation. MNF Recap. MMA Fighter Justin Wren On Fighting, Podcasting & Living In The Congo.

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

(1:41) - Hello, Layup Line, eBay Opportunities and Runaway Dogs. (11:14) - MNF Recap, Lamar's Excellence, MVP Talk and Carson Wentz Can't Catch a Break. (19:57) - Chris and Dr. Fax Talk Jon Gruden's Emails and Impact on Raiders and the NFL. (37:03) - Keyshawn Johnson Talks Gruden's Resignation, Personal History with Gruden, Outlook for Raiders and Keyshawn's Book "The Forgotten First: Kenny Washington, Woody Strode, Marion Motley, Bill Willis, and the Breaking of the NFL Color Barrier." (1:00:34) - Justin Wren on MMA Career, Living in the Congo Among the Mbuti Pygmy Tribe, Climbing Kilimanjaro, Providing Clean Water in Africa and Starting a Podcast. Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Download the app, bet big, win bigger. I got to tell you, I really like the sound of that. And with win bet, it's just that easy. From boosted parlays to live in-game odds on every major sport, win bet has what you need to win. So if you're in Colorado or in Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Tennessee, or right here in Sweet Virginia, sign up today to receive a special offer. Risk-free, $1,000 sports bet.

Download the WinBet app now or visit WynNBet.com. Download the app, Bet Big, Win Bigger. And let's get after it. Terms and conditions apply must be 21 or older and present in state where win bet is available. Gambling problem, call 1-800-2707117. I would say that I forecasted this particular shadow years ago about Coach Gruden just not being a straight up individual, just kind of being like fraudulent,

not being real. Can I do this one today, Fax? Go ahead. Hello! Kuwait! Evidently, I know Kuwait's not a city. I'm aware. It's a country.

And evidently, we are big in Kuwait. I've always wanted to say... We're fucking international, baby. Yeah, I've always wanted to say we're big in some other country. Like, if I could ever say we're big in Tokyo, that would be awesome. I feel like people always say that. I'm going to text my mom. tonight that I'm a part of an international podcast.

We're like the fifth most popular football podcast in Kuwait. I don't know who the other four are, but I'm just excited. Reid, do you know how many people are listening to us in Kuwait? Do we have that kind of technology? Millions. 13 people in Kuwait are listening. Is there a military base in Kuwait?

Okay, well, there you go. I was excited. I thought some Kuwaiti guys were just like, I wonder who Stanford Steve's going to pay. this week. How about layup line today? I want to do a little Grateful Dead

because we've got two qualified deadheads. I think they qualifies deadheads that I just wrapped an interview with. It's going to be coming out in a couple weeks. They run a podcast called The Good Old Grateful Deadcast and it has been informative for me

as a burgeoning grateful dead fan. I don't think I've crossed into Dead territory. We kind of worked that out in the pod. You guys always ask me what my top five dead songs are. You can listen to it. We're going to drop it before Halloween, skeletons and such. The guy's names are Jesse Jarno and Rich Mahan. These dudes were awesome. They know so much about this band. And of all the bands in the world that you got to know a lot about. I feel like the Grateful Dead are in the pantheon of there's levels to this like fandom, which is why I don't call myself a deadhead. You decide when you hear the pod.

That's coming out in a couple weeks. So I'll go Althea, you know, because I didn't always like that song. And lately I'm really into it. I totally get it now. Grateful Dead, Nate, you should try it. Maybe one of these days. Okay. People, tweet Dr. Fax, tell him where he should start.

I feel like you're a working man's dead guy. I like their fans. I told you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the place? the Shakedown Street. Shakedown Street. You got caught in Shakedown Street in college.

That's coming up in a couple weeks. Definitely check that out. Today, got a couple guests. First off, we're going to talk about this John Gruden saga. So who else would I call? Then Kishon Johnson, who's been outspoken and pretty raw on it. He's always honest. So I'm excited about having him on.

We're also going to talk about Monday night football. So what a game that was. kind of obscured by the John Gruden fuckery, but it was a terrific football game. But I've also got an MMA guest, Justin Wren, a guy I've climbed Kilimanjaro with for our water boys conquering Killy program. He's a heavyweight. He's fought in Bellator. He's a badass. He's got long hair. He's got great hair. He's got heavy hands. And he's lived in the Congo for like a year, man. I mean, like he's lived in the Congo, four years. year doing water projects

with the Pygmy tribe and he's anti-bullying. He's got a foundation fight for the forgotten that kind of encompasses all the work he does, not just the clean water stuff, but anti-bullying specific campaigns in the states here. So

he had a great story on when he beat this guy. Well, he didn't beat the guy up, but he neutralized. I feel like neutralized the way that you like nicely beat somebody up who had it coming. You know, like when you neutralize somebody, that's usually a code word for like, I fucked this guy up without really hurting him

and he had it coming. There was this guy being mean to some of the amputee vets we had on our trip and didn't realize that they were talking to probably the only MMA fighter in Tanzania. So that's a great story. He also talked about his water stuff. Stick around for that.

I had him over the weekend for a conquering Killy reunion and it would be a lot of fun hearing from him. Nate, the 12-foot skeleton showed up at my Well, it didn't show up in my door. The other night I let people in on the fact that I went to the bluegrass festival, 4848. I took a skeleton from pottery barn, which is a nice skeleton, I guess.

To the bluegrass festival, just hang out and sit in my car as like a prop and like prop up next to the campfire. I didn't come back with it. Came home, caught a little grief, like lighthearted grief. Like you took the family skeleton. Now I got to explain to the kids. So what I did at 1 a.m. is I fucking ordered a 12-foot skeleton like any good dad would do from Amazon. So it shows up two days ago. Meg doesn't want it.

It's too ridiculous. It's too scary. Honestly, I should have looked closer. It's sitting in a crate at the bottom on a crate, like a pallet on the bottom. Like I need a fucking forklift to get this thing out of here. Well, lucky for you, I just started my eBay store. Oh, so what are you going to do sell my skeleton? I can, for a fee, come scoop that skeleton up, store it in my garage.

What kind of fee? This is an expensive. of skeleton now you're going to make you know a lot of money on this skeleton and we can work out a commission-based situation where I can take care of all the hassle and most importantly your wife doesn't have to worry about thank you for looking out for meg hey I just want to don't want to bury the lead here you have a eBay account now that you sell items on yeah bro like it's something I've always done. I've had an eBay account since 2007. I like to resell.

I go thrifting. And yesterday, I actually ran into Matt. I was at a little honeyhole I have. A honeyhole. You just don't want to say what? Because there might be other eBayers out here. There's actually a lot. And I picked up a $2. UConn Husky vintage set snapback.

And I posted that baby. You flipped it. In 15 minutes, it was sold for $45. John Gruden might have to get an eBay account at this point. We'll talk about him in a little bit. And by the way, Kishon Johnson is going to come on to talk about his experiences as a player on John Gruden teams. He has not been shy about giving his two cents on John Gruden. I want to talk about Monday Night Football in a second.

But, you know, actually, I got an idea. Makin broke that bobblehead the other night. You see that bobblehead? Yep. I think he needs to pay us back. And I'm thinking what we could do is you could procure one of those bobbleheads, which are rare. Rare bobblehead.

There's only a couple left. Number 72's 2008. I look like a fucking chipmunk or something in this with this bobblehead. It doesn't even look like me, dude. So I already did some research. So you could fucking, you could, we could buy a bobblehead on eBay and then flip it, flip it for like a thousand

dollars. So Macon has to like pay us back with a bobblehead, not monetarily. It's irreplaceable. Yeah, maybe we need to buy from you. It won't even know because he doesn't listen to his pod. And so maybe I have to go on and do some research. And before he listens to this or potentially he hates us. Try to buy all the Chris Long 2008 draft bobbleheads. There's only a few left. Yeah. They've been going like hotcakes the last 14 years or whatever we're going on. So

yeah, maybe scoop them all up. We list them at like say 10K of pop. And then Macon has to, he has to pay me back. because this has been my bobblehead for a long time. I don't have a closet of these motherfuckers, dude. I'm not like some egomaniac. Oh yeah, by the way, this morning, I ran about a four or five catching my dog. Dude was gone. He was about to be on 250.

What kind of dog you have? A lab. You didn't even know that, huh? Chocolate? Chocolate lab. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah. His name's Willie.

What is it with white people in chocolate in Labador? I don't know. I feel like the lab thing. Well, I feel like the, I feel like it goes Golden Retriever 1. because that's what the Dave Chappelle show writers chose when they said, shut that fucking dog up.

And then they just off the dog. It was a golden retriever. But like Airbus is a golden retriever, right? Yeah, it's like it's a big white guy state. Marketing thing, but like what? Well, they're retrievers. So what happened is a lot of white guys like duck hunting and stuff. And so like it's kind of like.

So those dogs are good for that? Yeah, they've been bred to retrieve items, which is why they have to run a lot, which is why my dog ran off today. Like I have no idea why. was no shoes. I ran a four or five. Caught him before he got on the highway. It was terrifying. The kids were like, he's gone.

So anyways, yeah, I just think it's like a top five white guy dog. And for me, like the yellow ones are like the president of the white guy, Labrador Retriever Club. So I was like, man, if I just get a chocolate one, I won't be like everybody else. And I can kind of slide under the radar, but you picked it up. Named after Willie, Willie Nelson. And by the way, our idiot brother, there were two dogs in there. I think one was Dolly Pardon.

Willie no. Well, Dolly Pardon. Were you yelling like that? I think I called him a motherfucker, which was not the first time this week. Anyways, the Monday night game, man, because we are going to talk about Gruden for a little bit. But we do want to mention that that was not only a hell of a ball game on Monday night between the Ravens and the Colts, but also the NFL just keeps hitting on these primetime games. They've been killer.

The big story is Lamar. We're going to talk about Lamar. on the losing side of it, I thought Carson played well. I really did. And I have been harder on Carson this year because this is not the 2020 Philadelphia Eagles.

There is more to work with there. There is more competency around him. It is shit or get off the pot time for him. But I thought last night he showed why they secured him and paid a price for it. He was poised. He had one fumble, but that was OA, timing the snap

beautifully in the red zone. turnover caused by pressure. Another one for him. He's tops in the league at doing that pretty much. Perfect timing. Perfect jump. He was early on a snap earlier in the game, trying to time that snap up at home. He got home. And that was the one turnover on his head.

I mean, it's not to say that he had 400 passing yards was a career high. And the important part is he didn't do that from behind. Like, it wasn't like he was chasing and inflating his stats that way. Like, they kicked their asses for a while. And a lot of it gets eaten up on a 70-yard screen early. But

they weren't playing from behind. He lit it up. He looked poised. Even when they got the ball back to set up that would be go-ahead game-winning field goal, he was really poised in that situation. So I thought this was a good thing for Carson. It was a good night for Carson. Winning is not always everything.

You can react to a win and a loss a lot of different ways. We talk about that. Carson should be happy when he woke up, not for the team's success, but for his own development and standing in Indianapolis because we were waiting for him to show

these guys, this team, a game like that. Okay, you can still do it a little bit. He hasn't looked the same, but he can still do it. I had a tweet typed out. This was Carson's best road win. Maybe I jinxed him. I don't think you can jinx him if it's in the draft, right?

Yeah. That's a rule. Because I look back when he was with us and, where I was with him in Philly, he didn't have a lot of big road wins. Like he got hurt and I can't really give him the L.A. road win because Nick came in and finished it. So it's like one of those like MLB pitchers.

situations, which I guess lose the league. But the Seattle game we lost, the Kansas City game we lost in the road. He had a, he orchestrated a big win down in Carolina. It's a very good, Luke Keeckley you know, Cam Newton Carolina team that was still very good

and it was the last Carolina team. This would have been the biggest win. And he effectively did everything he could to win this game. But the guy who also did effectively everything to win this game and ended up doing it was Lamar Jackson and I felt really good about the fact that we pointed out that although I think

you know Herbert or somebody like that gets the MVP if they win a bunch of games by definition this is not always the way it goes Lamar Jackson is the most valuable player to his team because I said the other night without Lamar Jackson the Ravens are the Patriots and that's not a good thing this year so good for him

you know I feel like every time he plays well he not only shuts up some doubters but he ignites these really ridiculous internet arguments. Like I'd rather just skip the arguments and just marvel at how awesome this guy is at football and how funny is to watch and how much I'd love to play with him. Like, you know, he's just, he's his own worst critic.

He's tough. You know, he's a great teammate. Great teammate. They said a few weeks ago the Detroit game was terrible for Hollywood Brown effectively losing him like, or did they win that game or lose that game? He had a terrible game. They had a terrible game.

They had a terrible game, but the story was that he sat with Hollywood Brown on the plane right back, and they watched tape, and he told the reporters, the reason why is because we need him. And I know we need him. So we just have to go over our mistakes, and we're going to get it right. That's a quarterback right there. That's a leader.

And so, guys, a great football player. He's also a leader. And, you know, I've said this before. Like, he's not always going to be, like, your perfect quarterback. I mean, he's going to have ball security. security issues sometimes like so many quarterbacks. He had some last night. He's going to make bad throws. He has some throws he likes better than others. Like welcome to the NFL. You know what I'm saying? Like every quarterback has throws that they don't make as much or as well. And what I want to say is I

feel like it's not being talked about too much. But I think his coach Harbaugh is doing a great job coaching him. And last night, I think he did a great job making adjustments for the second half to allow Lamar and the team to be in the position to make those plays. And I think the chemistry that they have together and that everyone can see like just on fourth downs, if it's, it's not even hesitation with them. It's just one of those things that you can see with that type of relationship. For the small things in football is a game of inches, they always say, sometime that relationship and sometimes those type of being able to make those calls so effortlessly makes everything a lot easier and that was very prevalent last night.

Well, it's just a trust factor and we saw it when he went for it on fourth down a few weeks ago. It's like, what do you want to do, Lamar? You know, and that team is tight. I mean, even though the team is different now and not as good. They're not as good as, and this is the reason I don't think he actually wins it because I don't see this team and I didn't pick them to go to the playoffs. The way they're playing right now above themselves, maybe they go to the playoffs but just looking at the schedule it's the fifth hardest remaining schedule you know

before reed got me that factoid like i'm looking at the schedule and saying like look at this fucking schedule i mean there's some tough games left obviously you have cleveland twice even the teams like minnesota that you play that i hope they beat uh because i'm on the under on the wind total there uh those are tougher like mediocre teams like you know anything can happen it's the nfl anyways but they don't have a whole lot of just straight cupcakes left they have Steelers who are still the Steelers. That's a hateful rivalry. It's like Atlanta and New Orleans.

It doesn't matter what's going on with the teams. That's going to be tight. So I think that they scratch and claw maybe their way into the playoffs if I had a do-over, but the team is not a great team. And we've pointed that out, and that's why kind of he's so valuable. He had to throw the ball for over 400 yards last night with an 85%

completion rate. And I joke last night that Urban Meyer is unveiling his new 485 strategies. He's ditching 250, 250. He's seen Lamar do it and they're going to do that every game. So, I mean, if you got a guy like Lamar, that can be your game

plan. So good for Lamar. He must see TV. He's also a good dude and that's why I think it's probably easy to root for him. But again, frame it this way. They had no business winning that game. He did everything he could. He couldn't done anything more.

But he also didn't make the Colts missed two kicks or get one blocked, miss an extra point. Carson with the fumble. Now, I know they gave up six points with Lamar fumble down low, but all I'm saying is the team is not very good. They really had no business winning that game.

And now you look back at it, Detroit, they needed a doink in a good way and the longest kick in history, and a fourth and 19. They needed a four-minute mode mistake by the Chiefs, which is uncharacteristic. Who else did they play? Oh, the Colts game last night, obviously, is a comeback.

So there's three of those wins, and I know football is sometimes about luck, and we all get lucky, but they're hard to count on those things continuing to go your way late in the season. So look at the MVP's. You know, I posited that it's hard to not on an elite team and still win it. Maybe not. I mean, Matt Ryan, 2016, 11 and 5, of course, they end up in the Super Bowl there. Peyton, the 2006 Colts 12 and 4, second in the AFC South. McNair, second in the AFC South, 2004.

Sorry, Peyton was 2006. Rich Gannon, 11 and 5. Rich Gannon's got an MVP under his belt. Jesus. All due respect, I'm just saying, probably fans don't know that. Casuals, like me. And then AP-1-1 in 2012. And so you never know with the MVP,

but I just feel like we kind of know it's going to be the best quarterback on the best team. And I don't know that the Ravens fit that profile right now. So although he's way ahead of his numbers from 2019. And so the only thing he doesn't have working for him is the novelty. he should actually be more in the running this year if we're sticking to what it means. Schedule is tough.

We'll see. So we all know the Gruden news by now. It's Tuesday, time of tape. Last night watching a brilliant performance between two quarterbacks and Nate said this. He was like, Gruden fucked up Lamar Jackson. Yeah, I'm sorry, Lamar, because you played absolutely amazing.

Every football headline should be about you, your comeback, those drives, how amazing you're playing. Everything we just talked about. Everything. Yeah, so it just sucked. It sucks for everybody when somebody does something like this. And it's been right under your nose that they were this kind of guy. But, you know, like, there's a lot of good dudes working hard to put a good product on the field right now.

We're talking about this cat. So I promise you, after this segment, I'm done with it. Everybody remembers what happened Friday night, right? Or Friday, there was that leak from the Wall Street Journal. and we talked about this on the pod Sunday night and the wee hours after the games like it was just asinine. It was it was racist

and it was totally distracting to that football team and whether it happened 10 years ago or not he was a 48 year old man and a lot of people stood on the table for him some people I admire and I understand that to a degree it's hard to believe that your friends could be like this but there's a reason that Tony Dungey

he's not saying these things to Tony Dungey A lot of times, racist are cowards. So it's not like they're just running around saying this stuff. So if you wonder why Charles Woodson couldn't process it, maybe it was because he really liked John Gruden. Well, people are fucking, they can be fake. You know, it's tough for people having to stand up for their guy, and then more emails come out.

And like at that point, anybody who was caping for him is just made to look like maybe they didn't know the whole story. And they certainly didn't because it wasn't just the D. Smith comments, which were abhorrent. And certainly there were people that were caping for him directly, which is ridiculous in the sign of the times. But also abhorrent in a lot of ways, the way he handled it because I talked about this Sunday night, when you're quote unquote apologizing and part of your apology is I've reached out to D. Smith and I don't know, he hasn't hit me back. Like you're just arrogant. Like you're just an arrogant asshole when you do that.

You were an arrogant asshole anyways for what you had said. But like for you to do that, ugh. And I used to love this guy. Like, I thought he was awesome. One time he caught me imitating him when he was like, I did a John Gruden imitation and he walked up behind me when he was covering our Monday night game. It was before a production meeting.

They have a couple of players in there to talk and give them information. I used to love this guy. I thought he had to be a cool guy. I felt for the whole hooter stick. I felt for the whole voice. I felt for all that stuff. But right under the surface, and I can imagine if I played for him, I'd be really fucked up over it.

We'll see what Keishon Johnson says in a couple minutes. But it wasn't just Friday night. It was Monday at 8 p.m. the bomb drops, right? And it's on the heels of the Washington football team investigation related emails. 650,000 of those motherfuckers. Boy, I hate email. 650,000.

That gives me anxiety. Anxiety. Well, I mean, people are sifting through this stuff, and they find, you know, John Gruden essentially filling out the bingo card on hateful rhetoric. I mean, he hits all the boxes. You do D. Smith on Friday. You call Goodell, you know, a choice word.

You know, they even, he's taking shots at Eric Reed. He's airing out the NFL for pressuring Jeff Fisher to draft Michael Sam. He came after female refs. I'm like, there's Biden references, which I don't give a fuck about for the record. Okay, like I feel like they tried to sprinkle that in to enhance people's outrage. But if you needed somebody to tack on a little like political motivation, then, you know, you missed the whole point. But we'll see with the Obama comments

where I can imagine they might have been bigoted, being, you know, deducing from the other emails. And then the to toppless picks to top it off, like the cherry on top, he's getting topless pictures from Washington in the midst of all this of like cheerleaders, allegedly. And I can't help but think he's sitting at home and his world, rightfully so, is like closing in on him.

Why did it take so long to fire him? A lot of people have talked about that. Maybe the NFL was building a case. They wanted him fired. Maybe Goodell was pissed that he said what he said about Goodell. Maybe it's a personal thing. Maybe it's Mark Davis wanted him fired when he first heard about the emails. I'd like to think that about Mark Davis.

Maybe it's one of those things where they tried to fire him Friday over this stuff. And that could have been a safe face move. But maybe Gruden said, you owe me $100 million. And you can't move $100 million mountain. Well, then maybe Goodell said, check this shit out. There's time to parse, like, what happened? behind the scenes because it's infuriating that these emails were also being received and nobody was saying shit like if we had like a production team group text here and somebody said something

of that nature which i hope they never would i hope none of you are john gruden secretly but like it's my job to say that shit is not okay here and then take action accordingly and or remove yourself from it and or remove yourself from it no question and so it's it's disturbing that there are people getting these emails, which tells you that this cultural issue is pervasive in the NFL, because you have to be comfortable enough to write that out and say it out loud.

You're not saying the things you're saying, Charles Woodson isn't basing his opinion on you off of this person sending these emails. Because he doesn't, you know, Gruden's comfortable enough with his good old boys to text and email this stuff out. So it's fucked up, but I think more than anything,

it's the right thing that he's not coaching this football team anymore. That's like my main thing is there's been a lot of is this over reaction, is it not? It's the right thing that he's not coaching this football team anymore and maybe the most disturbing part is that racism wasn't enough. Friday, we can work around

this Monday. Oh, he insulted four other groups of people. He did the bingo card. Now he's out. It should be enough. Racism should be enough. Especially with the NFL right now. It's literally in the end zone and racism. It's on the helmets. The Black Lives Matter. All this stuff.

is heavy influence right now. But I think that's why people don't look at it with any, like, you know, I don't work with the NFL anymore on that stuff. I used to. I don't. It's just, it's literally the safe face. Like all this stuff is to save face and they know that they have a big platform. And if so many people push for something and if they feel like, hey, this is going to silence

the critics so that they can just look at our product. which everyone knows is so powerful. And at the end of the day, we all love football. But this is just, for some people to be calling that this is crazy and that it's been 10 years or however long these emails, that it shouldn't matter. Here's the thing. Like, people have to understand.

Think about in that span of 10 years when Gruden is in a position that he's in, how many African-American coaches and how many African-American players, he's dealing with and he's dealing with their future, their lives, their livelihoods, their careers. People have to understand that. And for you to say, oh, he's changed, we don't know that. You don't know that. He never had to change. Nobody ever forced him to change. Exactly. And when you're in a position of power like that, for people to be out there and say, oh, how can he be racist? He coaches black guys. Like, yo, like, it baffles me. Like, I can't even, it makes me, it makes me angry that. bad faith argument. Yeah, that you can

honestly put that in your head that oh, this is a reason why a person can't be racist. Like he he's doing a job. Like just like we were talking about the punter. The punter of the team. Marquette King. Marquette King supposedly some of the reasons he

got cut is his personality. He's one of the best punters in the league when he got cut. What the hell does that mean? Like it puts all of that in question regardless if he was, players were supposed be cut regardless if coaches were were qualified enough to get jobs or not it's now all muddied the water is all muddied because you cannot have someone in power if this is how they feel and this is

what they're comfortable with sending email sending text whatever it is because to be brutally honest there maybe are more owners and people in high positions that feel this way but when you go as far is being comfortable enough to write it and to send and just to constantly do it, it becomes a bigger problem. Well, yeah, it's a huge problem. And it's a problem for a lot of reasons. Number one, like, if you have any pride as a Raiders fan

and, like, you always talk about the Raiders being a beacon of diversity, you've got, you know, the legend of Al Davis and all he did for the game. And he did a lot for the game. But it sucks that, you know, you're sitting here in that franchise that's been built up as such is not, looking like that at this moment. Now, I don't know what Mark Davis knew or not,

but Gruden puts a black eye on the Raiders, like, kind of organization right now because he's been representing him for five years. And he's been, you know, making decisions. He's been calling Monday Night Football Games for 10 years. Like, to your point, there's a lot of people that he encountered along the way, maybe passed up on for jobs. You talk about the Rooney Rule. You know, we did a whole podcast on the Rooney Rule.

Some people are like, you're crazy. This sounds imagined all this shit, which you're obviously not listening. but this is real. People that are making decisions, employing people, have these feelings and these thoughts. And for people to normalize it and say, what's the big deal? I think that that's a bad faith, like, kind of discussion about cancel culture. That's what comes up a lot. You know, it's the thought police, you know, cancel culture. It's unfair. I had a guy tweet me, oh, well, haven't you? I was like, nah, man. But on top of that, like, he's leading a room full of men that's 70% black, dude. This is a privilege to coach in the NFL.

Guys are working their asses off to come to work every day, risking their livelihoods, their bodies to play and win games on the field. You have Carl Nassib on your team who's the first active gay player in the NFL and that is supposed to be just a fucking not even a privilege like walking down the street. They're not scooping John Gruden up from his fucking house and hauling him away in a white unmarked van. They're just firing him from a job where he's making $100 million to boss black guys around. Like you can't coach anymore, dude You just can't it's okay sometimes in society to just say you can't do this anymore

And that's the thing about cancel culture and thought police and all these bad faith arguments that people put To shroud these bad ideologies That's one of the biggest ways like fringy alt-righty kind of like You know we're persecuted thought processes are protected by this The boogeyman's coming for you and they're hauling you away in this white van because John Gruden got fired for fucking filling out the bingo card. Like, are you kidding me? Like, you guys don't even make sense, okay?

The working class of the NFL is one of the most diverse places in the world, save for quarterback rooms. Okay, we haven't figured that shit out. We're starting to. But, like, it's a special place where you and I can meet. Like, we had way different backgrounds, bro. We met in college, okay? But we could have been teammates, too.

And you're one of my best friends in the world. We met in a locker room, bro. That's a very special place where we've had a lot of tough conversations and guys can put certain differences aside. And letting somebody coach and lord over an area like that, it's sacrilege to me as a player. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but it just is. Think about if you were a black player and you divulged any type of personal information to him, if you ever went in and you talked to him personally and wanted advice.

and it's just one of those things now you're just like, yo, like, this was my coach. I feel like a sucker. Yo, like some guys, when you have a coach and you really like like a coach and you're playing, you're going out there, putting down a line, it's like another father figure for you, like in some instances.

And to hear this and to be like, damn, this is what's going on. This is really how you felt. It's just a huge blow. And I feel like this should have been done. As soon as those emails were sent, not even the two or three days, like after, I just feel like it should have been enough outrage from the first set of emails. It should have been. It should have.

It was like, hey, you know what? We got to get this guy out of here. I understand the whole money situation and that, but it just doesn't look good. And speaking as a player, it sucks for all the Raiders players now. Well, and that's the thing. How do you feel if we're in that locker room and it's time to go win some football games? And by the way, now, the last thing I want to say about, like, the macro discussion about John Gruden and emails and writing hateful shit out, like, I've had some people, I saw some people

like, you got to be careful what you email. That's a great thing to take away from here. Like, how about not being, like, just a fucking shit show of a racist and a bigot? Like, people can change. I'm not saying he's an axe murder, but he's a bigot and he's a racist. And he hasn't had to reckon for that. And so, like, you lose your privilege. But anyways, the future for the race.

because this year they think like a playoff team in the last two games. I had a Raiders fan text me, well, what do we do now? Because John Gruden had this complex offense. Well, it hasn't been working the last couple of weeks. If you think about Derek Carr, which of course has been like a tumultuous relationship, it's been all but a secret, if you think about some of the discord within that building that I've heard about, some of the dysfunction that centers around John Gruden,

some of the tyrannical kind of behavior that he's had there, he's rubbed people the wrong way. That's a tense situation to have to get to get to, to go to work in every day. The team's going to be better off in a lot of ways, I think. Now, I don't know how much of the scheme is married to him. I don't know if this coordinator can pick up his slack, but I

do know you got a lot of good coaches in that building. You know, some Marinelli, Gus Bradley guys, the special teams coordinator who's taken over has kind of the chops to be an interim head coach. There are some experienced cats in here and there's some good players on this team.

So I think they might actually get a little bit better. I'm not saying like immediately, but teams rally around each other sometimes in situations like this. What's say you, Nate? So I was saying that right now, it's definitely going to be a distraction because for the media, it's an easy audio, it's easy, it's easy clickbait to go in to every single opportunity and ask any player, oh, the John Gruden emails, how do you feel about it? How do you feel?

Even if you're not going to say anything, even to see the reactions of the guys, it's going to be a huge story wrapped up and built up for the next few weeks. And really, the only thing that cures it is winning. But I can tell you, I bet you they feel better today than they did on Saturday, the Raiders

players, because on Saturday, you're caught in this washing machine where you're like, fuck, do I have to deal? Like, if you're a black player, like, do you even want to play for this guy anymore? So the fact that he's gone, it's kind of like ding dong the witch is dead a little bit there. Do you even want to play? Do you want to, like, do you feel differently about

teammates that maybe didn't say what you would have liked them to say about this in the media already. And then it gets flip-flop. Yeah, then it's like, well, you didn't say enough. You said too much. You did it. Exactly. It's one of those things where it's just, it's all muddied now because the one thing came out and just like, like the guys, guys who got interviewed about it, like just a media thing. Like when you're in the NFL and when you're on teams, you get coached up when bad situations like this happens. Of course they're going to have. to say try to say something about it but at the end of the day that's your coach like what are you going to go you're going to go in there and trash your coach but now you can and fans of equality

and justice and all this good stuff like sometimes can don't go back at these players and parse through their commentary from the weekend and make sure that they were did they stand up like not everybody has the balls to call out their employer these guys have lives they have families. Like a lot of guys are living in the fucking the Vegas best western for week. Like NFL, not everybody's as secure financially where they can just stand on a soapbox and be like, hey, fuck this guy. And he's right upstairs. And I'm taking snaps on Sunday for him. So I think like now you're going to, players are going to be asked about it. Look at what they say. But before Sunday, like I don't want to go back and say, well, he didn't, you know, not everybody has to do that.

I want to hear what Kishon Johnson asked to say because Kishon has already had some comments about John Gruden. He played for him and didn't like him. Probably feels pretty vindicated right now. Okay, Kishan's joining us. He's on NFL Live, obviously. He's got the Kishon, J. Will and Max show, which I've joined before. And I think I'm going to go on there soon. So I was just talking offline.

Yeah, Friday. Yeah, Friday. We got a date, man. So Kishon and I were just talking offline. and I was saying, like, I appreciate you being honest about this thing because I know it's, there are like equations people have to do when they talk about this. Ideally, everybody would just keep it a bean, but no. No, that's not, that's not how it is.

And I think when you look at it, though, right, people, they're not secure in their own space. And when you, when you start thinking about guys, question authority figures as head coaches in front office guys, who are the guys, right? I was a six year. I guess I was, I think I was in my six year as a veteran, but I have this number one of world pick. You know, I got traded. I had just signed about a $65 million deal with like $17 million up front.

And this was like way long. I'm talking like in 2000. Yeah. So that money was like different, right? That money was like the money that they get now. So I was, I was secure in my position. Nobody could tell me anything. You couldn't look at me in my face and just lied to me right long.

Yes. You had to be honest with me. I'm going to be here a while. I might be more money than you. I might be here to you, dude. Exactly. I make more money than you. So it's up to you.

And so in the end, when you challenge authority, a lot of people inside the locker room and a lot of people inside the building, they saw me as a guy who spoke the truth, who has swag, who challenged authority, but I was securing my own skin. I wasn't worried about being released. I wasn't worried about being traded because I could play football. Something he couldn't do.

I can play. And so I'm going to always have a landing spot. And then I wind up getting traded to the Dallas Cowboys. But I told people, you know, I kind of, I would say that I forecasted this particular shadow years ago about Coach Gruden, just not being a straight up individual, just kind of being like fraudulent, not being real. And you know, you know, y'all both been in locker rooms, both in college and the pros. So you know when people are BSing you, you know when they bullshit and you, no question about it. And so I can see through it a mile away. Yeah.

And we did just say, like Nate and I were talking about this whole thing coming into this part of the show. And, you know, I hope people don't look back at certain players over the weekend because of what we just said and say, hey, man, where was player X on this or where was player Y? because I don't think a lot of people understand that sometimes, like, players have livelihoods, man. And it's like, hey, this guy, I got to go to work for this guy on Sunday. Like, maybe I'm the 43rd guy on the roster. Maybe I'm not Kishon Johnson. Yeah, he hit the nail in the head. And like, for you guys, you guys were first round picks.

You were first overall, second overall. It's something I was a undrafted free agent. It's just like, it like. I can't expect that guy to stand up in the locker room. Like, what does my opinion have to do with anything? Like, I'm trying to stay. I'm trying to stay. on this rock.

I'm hoping that my key card works tomorrow. Yeah, you know what he said? We were talking to Urban Meyer last week. I was like, Nate, what would you do in a situation like this? He was like, fuck, I might go pray with him. Like, see if he needs, needs me to hold his hand. He needs a friend right now. Like, everyone's shitting on him.

He needs a friend. Because you're not thinking like me, which is like in my experience, I could say what I wanted. And so, like, I hope people at home aren't thinking like what was the 40th guy on the Raiders doing, not speaking out against John. Well, it ain't even that long, right? Not even a 40th guy. So rosters are made up of different ways and different people. Coaches have a pulse for what that locker room is, right? And John made that locker room up the way he wanted it to be.

The coaching staff, the way he wanted it to be. So nobody going to question that because it's, remember, he made that locker room up. He didn't make our Tampa Bay locker room up, Rich McCay, Tony Dungey made that locker room up. So the personalities, Warren, Saps, Cemy Rice, Jansson, Derek Brooks. We was the leaders of that locker room. So we were the authority figure, not him.

So he eventually had to remove Warren Sapp, Kishon Johnson, John Lynch. He pushed on from us after we won the Super Bowl because it was like, in the end, it was like, well, no, I won a Super Bowl. I got to take control of this situation now. Even to a point where he didn't even necessarily pick the coaching staff.

The coaching staff, especially on the defensive side of the ball, was already there because that was Coach Dungy's crew. When Dungy got fired, he left Monty Kiff and them behind. That had nothing to do with Coach Gruden.

And then the offensive line coach was actually hired by Bill Parcells who wound up not taking the job a few weeks later. So it was kind of like he just brought his body and a handful of his people. But even from a coach's standpoint, as y'all both know,

the coaches know everything that go on in the coaches room, all the BS they be talking about behind our back. And the assistant coaches is typically our friends, and they have to feed their families like 53 men on the roster. So they're not going to say nothing to the coach, but they'll come and hit us off on the side. Like, this dude is a snake, man.

This is what he said about you. And that's how I was able to, I guess, get a lot of the information, plus with my own knowledge and putting them together, I'm like, oh, this dude here, man, he ain't for the long haul, not for me. Yeah, and so that, like, leads my neck, because initially I'm thinking to myself, all right, well, the prospects of this team, it, I think there can be a rallying around situation. I guarantee you this team feels better today than it did on Saturday. That was my-

Man, let me tell you, let me tell you, Rich Versace is the special teams coach, who's taken over as the head coach, Rich with my special teams coach in Tampa. I rock with him 100%. He ain't having it. I call him like the Italian stallion. He ain't having it at all. And they're going to mess with him. Because as you both know, the special teams coach is like the strength and conditioning coach.

He deals with everybody. Yeah, some of the best coaches in football, that's why when Joe got a job and they were kind of like, oh, he's just the special teams coach. I was like, well, he may not be a good coach or may be a good coach, but don't put him down because he's a special teams coach. Those are the guys have to, they really have to deal with every corner of the locker room. Great leaders. And then they got Marinelli. They got Gus Bradley. Like, experienced guys.

Like, they'll be able to. Yeah, absolutely. And fuck. Absolutely. I mean, him and Derek Carr have not got along. Like, that's not any secret. And that's the thing. Derek Carr, right?

So when you go and you, you know how this work, man. They're going to go to the locker room. They're going to go get the dude like Jacobs. Jacob's still on his first deal. He's trying to figure out how to get to the second deal. He ain't going to say how he really feel. Derek Carr trying to survive without being shipped out mid-season or bitch for some weird reason. And he's just not that type of person that's going to go at the coaches.

So they go get him, hey, what do you think about child group? In D. Carr, like, oh, yeah, well, I've never heard you say any. Of course not. Yeah. He ain't going to say that in front of y'all. Yeah. You ain't going to, he's going to be straight a different dude with you on the field. But in that private setting, oh, man, he's so different.

I bet you if they were to ask Greg Olson, the quarterback coach, what he thought about what John says in the meetings. It came out different. Yeah, probably. Yeah, no question. And then Nate brought up a great point. We were talking about, you know, like, I asked him, like, as a black player, how do you feel, you know, coming out of this and people,

microphones in your face and all this shit? And one of the most interesting things you said was what, about like the last 10 years? It's the last 10 years. if you were ever a coach trying to get a job under him, if you were ever a black player, if you ever had any inkling like that you were not maybe getting the fair share or your fair try.

Marquette King. The Marquette King situation said something about his personality. But the thing is, though, Nate, see, he was going to exit the way he was going to exit with players anyway. The punter, he didn't rock with the punter. The punter had too much swag. Yep. And the punter was still good

enough to punt in the national football league. But what you did is you tried to basically win his career. Yep. Yeah, but that's, but you know what, Nate, that's what he tried to do to me. But the problem is, he got to be,

you got to remember it. I was already a made man in the league when he tried to assassinate my character. He couldn't do that. When I, when they, when he looked and trade me, you know how many teams lined up? I picked Dallas because of Parcell.

But literally, every team in the NFL was trying to not go to do it because they like, wait a minute, man, Bill Parcells loves this dude. Bill Belichick loves this dude. Tony Dungey loves this dude. That don't say it all right. Yeah.

What the hell is going on? Doesn't add up. Yeah. Doesn't add up at all. And that's what happens. Because again, when you speak to the locker room long, you got to think about it. You got to say, okay, all them players

has been his players over the last four years. Khalil Mack gone. Um, Mari Cooper, gone. He didn't want to fool with dudes that wasn't his guys. He wanted to have control

over the whole situation. Yeah, if you got too many alphas, if you got too many alphas who are made in the room, you know, as a coach, you only, like,

you might think, oh, I only want so many dudes that can fucking speak their mind and kind of have the clout. Like, you know what I mean? We won the Super Bowl.

We won the Super Bowl. And a year later, the team was dismantled. with pro bowl play when the pro bowl meant something when you said pro bowl and people stood up yeah thank you pro bowlers think about it they dismantled the team after a year of winning the super bowl the damn general manager rich mackay my boy my trojan left in the middle of the year to go take a job at the land of falkins because he didn't want to be around the dude yeah and that's what's that's crazy and that's what's scary when people in position of power when they feel like this

behind closed doors and... Well, think about the balls to just type that out, send it. And send it. Like, it's just, it's unbelievable. You think you're bulletproof. Well, that's because, but that's because you in the room and you're dealing with your

country club buddies and your country club buddies you've been dealing with for so long, you're comfortable now. You don't even, you never had the foresight to see however many years has been to where we are today that it would ever come back to full surface because you were, even thinking like that.

Yeah. Because they don't think there's anything, they don't feel like they're doing anything wrong or saying anything wrong. That's just the culture. That's normal. That's normal. Yeah. Hey, by the way, Keith John Gruden was just removed from the Buccaneers Ring of Honor.

I was going to tell you that, but I was going to tell you that, but I didn't. How do you feel, do you feel good about that? I knew that was going. Yeah. No, man,

you know what, man. Here's what I'm going to say about me and John's relationship. The fact that when we, him and I got into, it. That was the first year. That was the year we won the Super Bowl. Everybody think it was the year that I left the team. Our most heated moment was the year we won the Super Bowl, his first year.

That's when we really got into it on the sidelines. My second year, I went in in August, as soon as I got a training cap, and I put my house up for sale. And it went crazy bonkers on the people. They was like, he shot up with his house up for sale. And I was like, yeah, in August. And I was like, And I told him, I met with him, I met with him and Rich. And I told him, I said, man, no matter what amount of money y'all give me on an extension, offer me, no matter what the case is, I'm going to get y'all 16 games of hell. Hopefully we get back to the Super Bowl.

I'm going to do everything I'm doing. And I'm out. My house will be sold. I'll rent back from him. I'm done. But I'm going to work with you. And that's how I was. Once I stepped between the lines, I worked with you.

When I left the field, I didn't talk to him. I didn't deal with it. That was my relationship. So when I see him going through what he's going through, I don't wish bad on nobody. He helped me win the Super Bowl. But in the end, you're going to get what you're supposed to get, which is you did that. They're not going to keep you up in the ring of honor in this day and age. How are they going to honor you and you're despairing toward people, women?

You're talking to the LBGT community. You're disrespectful to the commissioner, the vice president of the United States of America. You have no integrity about us human beings that are like running in the each other, trains and car wrecks and you talking about safety and the health and well-being of players like it's just a joke. Like, come on, man. You're talking negative about the

commissioner of the NFL and on top of that. You're disrespect for it. I tell him long, I said to him on my show and on many shows that I've been on. I'm black and I got black features. I got sexy big lips and it ain't no injections. So I ain't trying to be something that I'm not. You know what I'm saying?

So you can make jokes about the lips all day long because y'all, I mean, y'all, y'all go out there and put it in Jaxis and y'all lips to try to get them to be like mine. The end of the day, it was a trash joke anyway. So it was just like, no, it was. No, it wasn't even a joke. It was like, there was hate in that. He wanted to, he wanted it to be a joke.

He attacked everybody. You too young probably know who Archie Bunker is, but go and look up Archie Bunker, Nate, and check it out. It was a sitcom on television back in the 70s. might have been in the 60s as well, but I used to watch it as a kid, and I didn't really know, you know, I'm young, so I don't know what the hell that is, but then I learned as I got older, man, he hated everybody. He didn't like nobody. Yeah. Crazy like white two was crazy, but it was a sitcom on television. Hey, Kishon, you got a recent book that came out, The Forgotten First. It's about the first NFL players to break the color barrier. Tell us about it, man.

So, yeah, I could, I had a collab with. a project with this writer named Bob Glover out of New York and Newsday. I met Bob obviously when I got drafted by the Jetson. We clearly became friends and been friends every sense. And so Bob reached out to me about, oh, I don't know, a year and a half to two years ago doing all this unrest in our country and all the different things that was going on in the black community, black and brown communities. And he had an idea about wanting to know who the first African American football players were because you don't really know. Like you know in basketball, maybe, you know, in baseball because of Jackie Robbbson Day.

And so we started doing, he started doing a little bit of the research. And as we stumbled up on it, we realized that Kenny Washington, Woody Stroh, Mayor and Motley and Bill Willis was the four black men that was reintegrated in 1946 into the NFL. But ironically, Kenny Washington and Woody Strode were room, not roommates, but teammates of Jackie Robinson and Kenny Washington was his backfield mate. They called it backfield back in them days instead of saying they were running back backfield mate at UCLA together. And Kenny Washington was think about this coming out of Virginia.

He was a number two pick overall. And you were all American. You had all these accolades. What if you didn't get drafted at all, period? So Kenny Washington was the number one back in the country, the first African American, All-American at UCLA. He didn't get drafted at all, period, siltch at all. And so in 1934 to 1946, there was a 12-year hiatus in the NFL where they didn't allow blacks to participate in the NFL.

And so until 1946, when the Cleveland Rams moved from Cleveland to Los Angeles, they then put politics in a writer, a black writer of the black newspaper in LA, politic to make sure that if the Rams are going to use the Colosseum that Memorial Coliseum out here in L.A., that they were going to start to integrate black players in 1946. So they signed off on it. So that's how black players got reintegrated back into the NFL. Now, Fitzpawler was the first black player,

but there was this 12-year hiatus where they shed it down. They said, no, we don't want your crime. And so, as you know about the Washington, Washington football team. They were to watch the Redskins for many years. But this just the owner, George, uh, George Preston Marshall was a major big racist, like a racist, just like ridiculous, just didn't make any sense. He went so far to play games in the South because they knew we couldn't travel to the South to play game. We go down there. We can get Lynch. Anything could happen to us. And so Paul Brown, who at the time was in the American football conference

with the Cleveland Browns, he wind up signing two black players and saying, man, I'm not doing this for publicity. I'm not doing it for nothing, but I want to win football games. And them brothers is going to help me win. Damn, y'all, what y'all talking about. And so eventually, they merged,

the NFL merged, and then when you go back to the Rooney, Mr. Rooney, Art Rooney, who was the original founder of the Pittsburgh Steelers, when he came into the league, I think it was 1930, 1930, I got some stuff running in my mind, but it was of 1930s that the Pittsburgh students was founded, he said to his grandson that his most

non-forgiftful day in the biggest mistake that he ever made in his life was not pushing back on the other NFL owners to not let black players play. So the crazy thing is if you fast forward into this day and age, his son, Dan Rooney, is the reason that the Rooney Rule was put in the place because he realized based on his father that his father made a monumental mistake and he wasn't going to make that same mistake in terms of diversity

and trying to give people equal opportunity to be a part of the NFL. And so all of these sort of things became interesting to me and made me want to participate in the book because there's so much racism in all of the bigotry that went on from way back when in the National

Football League that we still trying to get through that and then guess what? We had this shit happen on Friday with John Gruden. Yeah. That's so crazy. Yeah, and to think anybody's caping for Gruden right now and the media is insane, but there are a couple people and I'm not going to name any

fucking names, but But they're stupid though. They idiots though, man. You can't play to them. I know. That's why I'm not saying names, dude. That's why I'm not saying any names. Everybody, everybody they're coming at me all. You've got to ask grind. I don't care about him. My life is beautiful. This is right here. This is beautiful behind me, man. I don't care about all that.

Big fact. No, but I mean, here's the thing. First, you're wrong. Like, people don't believe you. And then when you're right, then you have an axe to grind instead of just like saying, hey, Kishan was right. What about USC? Okay, the last thing I want to ask you for, let you go. Who do you not? I'm not Urban Meyer, because if I was USC, I wouldn't hire him. Is there a college coach out there you like at all? Like, I know people are hammer. remembering you on this probably. Yeah, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you the coaches speak at the press conference.

Right now, or the athletic director speak to the press conference. Right now, we're going to cast a wide net across the country. We're going to take an approach and evaluate many opportunities, many people out there that want this opportunity for the fine university of student athletes. We have not zeroed in on any candidates right now. Yeah. It's still early in the stages. Uh-huh.

There's many candidates from the National Football League as well. college football that we will certainly take a look at. And in such due time that we get closer, we will let you know. So that was pretty good. You're ready to be in AD. And so all I heard was Matt Campbell. Okay. That's all I heard.

We got, you know, there's names out there. There's Luke Fickle because of the relationship that he has with the athletic director in Mike Bone, who hired him at Cincinnati. It's Eric B. Enemy, who's a Southern California native, who's African American. A lot of us wouldn't mind that happening. You know, there's James Franklin that's out there floating around. His name comes up every time there's an opening at USC.

There's Campbell. There's, what's my guy at Baylor, Aranda, at Baylor. So there's, there's Lane Kippen, maybe Lane comes back. He's getting fired on the tarmac. He gets hired on a tarmac. I mean, there's all those, there's all those sort of people that you take a look at, you know, Mario Cristobal. So there's a long, man, there's so many people in this thing.

you know, his Bill O'Brien name pops up because he was a former head coach and, you know, he was a bad general manager, but not a bad head coach. Good head coach, yeah. Bad, good head coach. Yeah. Bad GM. So when you start to look at it, like I said, it's going to be many coaches that are

going to try to get in on this thing, man, because it truly is a gym of a job. It's just that we haven't lived up to the billing. We won a lot of games under Clayton, but we didn't win the right games. We won a ton of games. Just didn't win the right games. Just didn't win the right games. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And it's, it was almost like, it was almost like we had Al Groh as a coach. Hey, don't be taking shots at Al Jeezy, bro, especially to a guy that was recruited by and

Al still hits up. That's one thing about Coach Grow, man. He gives a fuck about his college players, man. Every time he comes in town, he hunts us down, bro, to go eat lunch. I'm like, all my other coaches don't even call me. And he owned a Keishon Johnson jersey or wore 19. What do you wear 19? 19 because he's 19. I wore 19 in high school because of Keishon. He I thought he was a skill guy. I thought he was a skill guy. I grew up in Portchester, New York. So when you were on the Jets, I had my mom, you know, growing up, we weren't the best off.

So I was able to finagle her to get me a Kishon Johnson jersey, and I swear in fourth grade, I wore that jersey once a week. And then you got big. And you couldn't see it anymore. That's always good to hear. Yeah, man. He got a big fan here. Kishon, thanks for your time. man. I can't wait to talk to you on Friday and appreciate you. You being real about it.

Okay, cool. We'll talk. Yeah, man. See you soon. Nice meeting. Okay, buddy. Download the app. Bet big, win bigger. I really like the sound of that. And with win bet, it's just that easy. From boosted parlays to live in-game odds on every major sport, win bet has what you need to win. Sign up today to receive a special offer. Risk-free $3,000 sports bet. Download the win bet app now or visit WynNBet.com. And let's get after it.

Terms and conditions apply must be 21 or older and present in state where win bet is available. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-2707117. I mean, that's enough heavy topics for the day. Yeah. Talk about the world water crisis. I mean, holy shit. We can't catch a break here. but I will tell you that Justin Wren is a top class individual who's done a lot of great work.

He's somebody that I really look up to in the water space, honestly. I mean, I get a lot of credit for the work we do in the water space. I'm a mobilizer. I'm, you know, kind of a bullhorn guy. I'm like a people person. I'm creative. I'm committed to it, but I've never lived in the Congo for a year, helping people get clean water.

And it's been pretty remarkable watching Justin Renn. friend work. He's a good dude and I think that'll come through hearing him talk. Gentle giant until he's not. Let's hear from Justin. So a very special Wednesday pod. We're doing a little MMA, little clean water, little friendship. A little friendship. A lot of friendship. A lot of friendship. Like the whole thing is friendship. Justin Wren's here and the background is as I told you all. The man who needs them, he's no introduction. Yeah, the guy who looks like Chris Stapleton is here. I thought I'm doing that

interview. So you get more listenership. Chris, Chris Stapleton's here. I am. We just need to get you the hat with the feather on. I'm going to take Nancy's hat. You can't take Nancy's hat. It's not going to fit you. We talked about it this weekend. Your dome is eight plus like my dad. But if we got like a feld crow. Yeah. Strap. One of those straps. Yeah. He had my hat this weekend. He borrowed my hat for a little bit. It was on one peg. The thing was just hanging on my. It actually wasn't Once I raised my eyebrows, it was on no snap. It'd be hard to actually hit you in the head in your sport and hurt you, I think. Is that accurate?

Yeah, yeah. Guys don't want to hit it normally. Who else has like a cinder block for a head in your sport? Like impossible to rock. Mark Hunt. So he's not Chris Davelton, although he has a man of many talents. He's a heavyweight. Heavyweight MMMA fighter.

15 years now, professionally. Which is incredible. Since I was 19 years old. Which is incredible. And we were talking about this earlier, actually, the longevity of heavyweights in your sport. It's better to be a heavyweight than a lightweight. Yeah.

Because the speed goes first. Speed goes first. It's a lot like football. Endurance. You know? But in heavyweight, it's about technique, skill, strength,

experience. And that gets better and better. With age, like fine win. That's what they say. We met on a mountain. That was the first time we've ever met. Yes,

accurate? A little inaccurate. A lobby. Lobby of hotel. Lobby of hotel headed to a mountain. We got to know each other on a mountain. I took Justin on Kilimanjaro, and I had,

you know, this is one of my first, my first conquering Kelly climbs. It's the thing we do for water boys. And, you know, Greenberry, Nate Boyer set that up. We've talked about it in the pod before, but we take vets and athletes

and a lot of wounded veterans up the mountain. And one of the guys this weekend asked, how did I get on the climb? Because I think you might be misunderstanding. Because I wasn't a football player. Yeah. And I wasn't a military veteran. Well, we don't want to say no to you.

You might beat us up. You know what I mean? Yeah. If Justin Rand wants to come on the mountain, like fighters, yeah, come on. Come on. Like fighters, we'll pay for all your shit. Just don't beat us up. He's like, no, but Justin.

I was protection. But Justin is honestly one of the kindest people I've ever met. And honestly, relative to what you would expect when you meet a fighter, and I'm sure there's a lot of stereotypes and inaccuracies, my man is a peaceful guy. He did flip a guy who was being very rude to say, he was, he was bullying somebody. Carl.

Carl and Kathy. Guy named Carl, who had traveled to Tanzania. We were in the, Kathy with a K. Never trust the Carl with a K. Never again. I made that mistake once. Well, do you, you, uh, rectified the situation. So we were in the lobby.

Almost rectified it. We had come down. We had come down the mountain. We were having our little chin dig all the vets sitting on the back porch and this guy named Carl. He was being- He was a private party for us. He was being mean to a young lady that was with us working hard to tell the story. Very mean to her and to John Arnold. So Justin just did a very light thing like was like more of a neutralizing thing. He kept starting stuff. Yeah. And he kept coming down drunk and coming in and saying rude stuff to our group. And he was, He was drunk.

Yeah. And he had just done a safari. And he comes out and he says, we just finished the climb. Yeah. And his third time he came out. Third time I was about to turn him away. Yeah. And I did it real nice, the first two times.

Real nice. Two times is what you get, right? Two times. Two strikes. Strike you're out. It's like baseball. So he came down and he goes, wait, what were y'all doing in Tanzania? And we said we were climbing Mount Kilimanjaro.

and he looks at John Arnold who's a single amputee yeah he's got one leg he's looking at his prosthetic which is a badass prosthetic he's the got the cool he's a Raiders fan he's got a whole Raiders prosthetic he brought two

what's up John he brought two and he was all of us were chugging not all of us but we're chugging beers out of his leg I was I did not chug any beer out of his prosthetic but somebody lost a bet and had two

yeah yeah and this guy points out his leg and goes you did it yeah you climbed a mountain with one effing leg yeah like one effing leg like it was a joke yeah he was I used to think this was tough and then he looked at the girl and goes you did it little girl or something like that like little girl little not good right he goes I guess I could have done this he looked at Kathy and goes we could have effing done this I used to think it was tough climbing Kilimanjaro but an amputee with one effing leg and that little girl I'm like mad

right now, dude. Yeah. I just got mad. Yeah, mad, really. I just got mad. How do you not get mad at that? I just got really fucking mad. And I go, excuse me, Carl, Carl,

I think that's enough. That's enough. He's a, he's a war hero. And then he goes, you fought for this country? And I'm like, we're in Tanzania.

But, uh, you drunk, fuck. Go back to your safari. Go back to bed. And I go, he's a war hero and she did something you could never do. Yeah.

Something like that. And so he kind of pushed me. Yeah. I kind of shoved, not pushed hard, but he kind of put his arm on me, kind of pushed. And so I swooped around his, his waist with one hand. Yeah. They go, all right, time to go. And I lifted him off the ground.

Both his legs are in the air. I said he was like a child. Yeah. Yeah. But Carl had done some jiu-jitsu training. Oh, really? Yeah. Carl gives me two punches to the gut.

Two punches, real punches. Not like pitter-patter. Yeah. He goes, boom, boom, hits me in the stomach twice. So I throw him over my shoulder. Because I don't want him to keep punching me. So I throw him over my shoulder. I go, all right, Carl, you're done.

Yeah. And I start walking him to the door. Yeah. I was going to put him outside or put him inside. Yeah. We're outside. And I put him over my shoulder. And he locks in a keyotine choke, bro.

I'm not kidding. A real one. A real one. Oh my God. This is. It's working like it works at the mall. No. At my Jiu-Jitsu training center, this guy's a real guy.

No, and he kept telling us he would fuck us up before that. I'd fuck you up, I'd fuck you up, shut the fuck up up. I'm like, oh man. Dude, I was mad. Yeah, I'm mad too. I kind of wish I didn't take an edible and went upstairs to go to sleep. So, dude, what's a defense for a guillotine choke? Do you know what?

They taught me the first or second death. I could either slam them in the ground, which I would still be in the choke. So if the slam doesn't K-O-him, then I might kill myself by going on my own forehead Or jam my neck or get choked out Yeah So what's the other defense that works better? If I'm up against the cage and a guy tries to do a standing guillotine

Because that's what he's doing, a standing guillotine Because I have him over my shoulder I'm standing, but now he's in a standing guillotine. I have to turn him upside down. Yeah. So if I turn him upside down, he doesn't have the choke anymore And his feet have to be straight up. So I got it by the pants and the hip

And I go, fomph. And I flip them completely upside down. Yeah. To where there's no more pressure on my choke. There's still some, but it's not going to choke me unconscious. That's right. Carl was going to be able to choke me unconscious if I didn't turn him upside down. Because he knew something.

He actually knew it. So I turned him completely upside down. I was right by a ledge. So I stepped off the ledge and I turned him to where his head was like two feet off of the lead. Yeah. The steps. And I thought and everyone knew. and I looked around at everyone.

And my defense to his choke, trying to choke me unconscious, was slam his face or neck into the ground, head in the ground. Yeah. And then he might have snapped his neck, knocked him out, something real bad.

It was going to be a puddle blood. They definitely would have woke me up then. Yeah. So I didn't do that. I shook him off. Set him back down. That's right. Kathy was asking me to get off of him.

Please put him down. That's the worst. Kathy, please. Yeah. You need to make a T-shirt. Kathy, please. Your husband walked into this one. I always knew there's Cairns, but then there's Kathy's. There's Cathies.

Kathy's that support Carls. Kathy support Carls. They're the next level of Karen. That's crazy, dude. Can you imagine like shoving a guy who's a professional MMA guy halfway around the world and not knowing he's an MMA guy? Like of all the people on the planet, you're in Tanzania. And you found the one MMA professional in the entire country. You shoved him. Two-time national champion in wrestling.

Five-time All-American, a ten-time state champion who's known for throwing people on their heads. I say this all the time. The guy in Oklahoma, who's a quarterback for Oklahoma, he went to a party, got boxed up, and then slammed on his head by a fucking cowboy wrestler hybrid. They're the most dangerous people in America. Yeah. That's why, like, I don't know if cowboy riding wrestler. I don't know if Donald Soroni wrestles or if he's just a striker or what, but like, that's the most dangerous combination. in the world. Do you see what that guy does nowadays?

He's out there, like, getting pulled behind a boat with no water skis at 130 miles an hour. The fucking guy's crazy. Yeah. So, yeah, don't. Look for the cauliflower ears, man. Do you want to know what the icing on top was? What? The chair on top.

Was Carl and Kathy were in all white. They went to, like, a white out safari party. Oh. So he had like a white linen shirt, a white belt, white linen pants, white linen pants. He was trying to fight you in a linen jumpsuit. Yeah. She was in an all white dress. They look like White Lotus people.

You beat up a guy about a central casting from White Lotus who did two days at the mall doing Jiu-Jitsu. Knew a little something. Knew a little something. That also speaks to the power of Jiu-Jitsu because this guy is unquestionably

a huge turd, but he actually just knew a little something. Yeah. And like for a lot of... If you didn't know anything, he would have choked you out. Yeah. Damn. Glad it was you because maybe Carl

chokes me out and I'll never recover for something like that. Getting choked out by a Carl. Nobody would. nobody would nobody would so we do the climb um we had a great time we did the climb before you met carl that was that was hurdle number two for you on the trip number one was climbing a 19000 foot 141 we both know yes because hey you know every foot of that motherfucker don't you how you've done it a lot yeah a few times how many times five i think it's hard but how can you complain we're climbing with with john arnold we're climbing with kirstiannis we're climbing with i if he can do it

it should be easy for us. Ivan's, Ivan was, Ivan's blind. Did you hear me? If, if, if John did it, should be easy. Okay, Carl. Elliot, what do you think about Elliot? We got to see him. We saw Elliot this week. Tell me his story. Eleur Ruiz is a Marine who, uh, three Broadway plays after his life. Yeah. One nominated for the Pulitzer Prize. Yeah. Is that true? The second one won the Pulitzer Prize. No. Yeah. Are you serious? Yeah. I didn't know they were that acclaimed. I'm not really into the Broadway scene and he's so humble he doesn't make a big deal about it dude his like sister or cousin wrote it

yeah maybe his niece well he's a Marine roadside bomb the whole nine yards um countless surgeries big uphill climb uh also

somebody who deals with MS so yeah um did they tell you that he has MS multiple scroses his whole body shakes so here he is here he is and he's also really good about like you know what I love about Elliot he's really open about talking about stuff so he really makes you feel at ease about it because you know sometimes you don't know how to talk to people about challenges but you want to you want to tell them how much respect you have for them

or how much you know you you care um and it is you're a good dude well you got love for every person that climb that mountain but yeah but you're you're as good as you are handsome but elliott like those teeth too if they're getting better visilline sponsor this man Elliot you should from because I'm thinking about getting Invisaline. All right, so let me ask you this. How many teeth have you ever had knocked out? The one?

It didn't go out. It didn't go out. It just like gets loose. Does that, would you rather like break your nose or get a tooth knocked out? I don't know. I think I'd rather break a nose.

Really? I don't know. I've never broken my nose. That's so sick, dude. That's the proudest thing. I've broken noses. I know you have because I've seen them on YouTube and I want to see one in person eventually.

I broke in a face. He has two metal plates in his face. I really feel bad about that one. He put his feet on my hips. Yeah. You don't do that because I can fade or a milliancoe you. He put his feet on my hips and I shifted, I swiveled my hips. Yeah.

To where his feet go forward. Yeah. And I go into a lunge. Uh-huh. And his face is coming up and my wrist, fist is coming down. And when I hit, I felt it sink. Yeah. Like hit connected and then it sunk.

Concave. It was weird. Yeah. He was out. How do you feel after you do that? Yeah. Like I won. Yeah, but then the next,

the next day. She's laughing. I knew I won the fight, but then I heard he was going into surgery. Yeah. So you like most of the guys. You fight or respect most of the guys. I respect every one of them.

Yeah. I like every one of them. Yeah. So you're not into the like, make it personal, be that like nasty promoter. I mean, if they make it personal,

we'll keep it there. There, yes. Yeah, because it brings something out of me. Yeah. Like Carl. Exactly.

Carl, I could kill you right now. If you want to be a Carl, that I'm not gonna like you. But how hard is that? Because you like people, you respect people, but there is a game within a game that you can choose to play or not play. One of the guys that knocked out talked the most trash

to me, but he helped send me to Congo the first time. Really? Bought my ticket, run a trip. Really? Yeah, Josh. Crazy, right? Yeah. He talked so much trash because he was a good wrestler.

Yeah. And he talked about how he was a state champion and Nebraska wrestler that Texas isn't shit. And then I was like, okay. He goes, I was a state champion. He was like, me too. Yeah. I was all American.

Was it me too? Then I was like, I was a national champion twice. And I got quiet. The United States. But yeah, go ahead. Keep talking about wrestling. Yeah. And I said, I'm just going to do my talking to the cage.

So I saved it while he was talking trash, talking trash, talking trash. That's the first fight ever talked to a guy during the fight. Told him everything I was going to do before I did it. And I also told him everything he was trying to do before I defended it. and then I defended it and then hit him. It was demoralizing. One of the guys is laughing back there, I think. Or he's laughing.

Because he's just imagining how frustrating and painful that might be. That was that real painful for him? Was that the most zone you've ever been in, like, in the ring, like, where you just felt things like were so slow? It brought out a lot of me. Yeah. It brought out a lot of good. Yeah. I was on point.

You're on point. And then afterwards, we talked, and his wife couldn't believe we became friends. Wow. But I was like, oh, it was a competition. He brought out the best. me thank you for bringing out the best to me yeah and this is my mindset when I get in there a lot of guys are nervous as amateurs yeah or even pros in their first few fights yeah because they lock the cage behind you and you hear it lock like clink clink yeah a lot of your guys get nervous there

really a lot of guys get scared really a lot of guys wish they hadn't done it can you tell yeah looking in their eyes yeah you know yeah and this is what I think every time after like my third or fourth fight. I was like, I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked to me. Me. Yeah. You locked it here with me. Greg Williams used to say lock the gates. That was our like the thing on defense was they got to shut the door for 60 football minutes and then we, hey, then we might lose to them, but we get to do what we want to them for 60 minutes. Wow. But you're actually beating people up for. Yeah, I meant it. Because it actually happened. Locked the gates. It wasn't metaphorical. It was actually happening.

Two gates locking. And he's locked in there with me. Yeah, the gates there were I love that sound. I've had dreams about that sound. Yeah. When they lock that, I'm looking into my opponent's eyes and I can grin. Yeah. I love the sound of that lock, locking. That's so fucking, lock it up. Lock it up. That's something I,

that's something I never thought about. I love it. Was the sound of that gate. Yeah. So when you do hurt somebody like that, that. I try to help them. Yeah. We give them their space because they need some space after getting them. Yeah. It's not like football where like a bunch of people are leaning over you.

Yeah. Because once you're knocked out, you don't know who the fuck is standing over you? Who's that guy? Who's this guy? Why is this happening? How many lights are that? You start counting the lights? Yeah.

You never heard that term, have you? How many lights? Countful lights. No, usually they say what day is it? Yeah, yeah. But when someone, you see all these lights. Yeah. The only time you see those in fighting is when you're on your back.

Right. Yeah. When you're on your back and you see the lights, it's like, that's not a good sign. Damn, Skippy. Yeah. So you want to make people count the lights. Have you been on the other side of it? No.

You haven't been knocked out in right. Yeah, no, no. That'd be crazy, right, waking up, counting the lights. It's not going to meet me. So let me talk about a place. They're locked in here with me. Let me talk about a place there are no lights or there's no light pollution. DRC.

in water. I mean, we've talked about Water Boys before we have that awesome climb. We spent a lot of time. We got to know each other. But I want to talk about Fight for the Forgotten. I want to talk about, you know, before we let you go, I want to talk about just your mindset

as far as what I think is really interesting when you read the language of the mission statement of your foundation, I noticed that, you know, included in the bullied people, populations that you try to advocate for, you include, include your friends in Africa. Yeah, the pygmy people.

Because they are being bullied. Yeah, they're the most bullied people group in the world. Anthropologists call them the most oppressed people group on planet Earth. Least amount of water, least amount of schools, least amount of hospitals, but then they didn't have any land ownership at all zero when we got there. When fight for the forgotten started, zero land ownership in their country's history, their people groups history since they've been around. They used to be able to roam on it and hunt and gather and be nomadic.

But they had zero ownership, so they had zero representation on the governmental level. Because they had no land. Over 200 tribes, over 200 spoken languages, one group that's enslaved for the most part. And of 600,000 people, basically all of them call someone master. Over the size of Texas cut down in the last 10 years, 20 years, 20 years, 25. Over the size of Texas cut down in the rainforest for rare hardwoods, so legally mined, or not mine, but logged, legal logging. Gold, diamonds, coal tan, the richest country on planet Earth, yet the poorest people on the human development index. So their average heights, four foot seven for the men.

They hunt, gather, or are enslaved and mine and farm. And so, yeah, for me, they're the most bullied people who are up in planet Earth. And I grew up getting very heavily bullied for our context, our perspective, our experience. But yeah, my first time burying a little boy, his name was Andy Boe, he was one and a half years old. And I held him, I buried him, I dug his grave. And for me, that changed my life, seeing a little guy die, who was denied hospital treatment. but twice his

first time his mother was told you too dirty to come in here by the nurses second time he was passed what the $1.00 pills would have helped

he needed the one shot cure which was about $3 $3.5 dollars of Congolese franc and the whole village which was enslaved all bagged in the little town

Mountain, Comanda, which is kind of like a transport city where people would get gas for their trucks or their motorcycles, where they'd refuel, where they get some food, a little market, where they could get bananas and potatoes. They had three and a half dollars of Congolese-Franc. They had two dozen eggs. They had a bag of charcoal, which weighed about 100 pounds. They had firewood, like stacks of firewood. They took all of that and a chicken.

Did I say a chicken? One chicken. No, but that's a big deal. Yeah. It's like $10. Yeah. So he took all that. We're met on the hospital steps and said,

you don't get it. We won't waste our medicine on a pygmy animal. Turn them away. Andy Bo's mom had already lost her husband, her other son. Now she was about to be all alone. I know a woman named Miriamo. She lost five of her seven children due to the water crisis.

Five of seven. Yeah. and she's blind and has two children under the age like three or four. Right. So we were able to drill a well next to Mary Elmo's hut. She's the closest living person to her water well, which is awesome. I love the elders and their wives choosing for her to live closest to it. We've drilled 80 wells for Andy Bow's funeral.

Could have prevented it with a dollar pills, $3, one-shot cure. took me about $30 to bury them for the casket, the wrapping paper, the shovel that we dug it with. So that wrapping my mind around it was really, really hard. So to date, we've drilled 80 wells. They all drill them for themselves. I help with some of them, like 13 of them I helped drill. We're building 32 homes on over 3,000 acres of land. Yeah.

We've, yeah, 80 wells, over 60,000 people are getting clean water. and the 3,000 acres of land they legally own. That's in Congo and in Uganda. And we've done water towers at schools, at orphanages, water towers. And you've worked with Manny and, um, Dustin, poor, your buddy, Dustin. Yeah, Joe Rogan. Yeah, Joe. Um, Cashap, Arizona Tea.

How long did you live with the Pygmy people? One year at one time. Yeah. Probably two years or more. in total. Incredible. That's the most incredible sacrifice to me that you like just say, hey, I'm a leave home and I'm just going to be here. Like that's like real sacrifice, dude. Yeah. Well, uh, yeah, I got to live like them and it was awesome. Uh, but the dirt was my bed. Fire was my blanket. Twig and Leaf Hut. That was about four, four or five foot tall was my

walls and ceiling. Five roaches in my beard is my record for pulling out roaches. They had to pull a snake out of the hut next to me. That was a black Mamba. Dude. I asked if it was poisonous. No, you didn't. Yeah. It was that poisonous?

Whenever we're over there, dude, I'm always thinking about those snakes. I would really like to see a black Mamba because they aren't black. They're not. They're like gray or something. Gray on their back, white on their belly. Why are they called it black Mamba? Because of their fangs. Oh, they're black.

Their fangs are black. Their mouth is black. And it's scary as shit. They look like a demonic snake. Tick-Tac, sir? Yeah, right? You should have brush that thing a time or two. Yeah, exactly.

But it's so potent. It's so potent with poison that's black. What do they call it there? How many steps? They call it the seven-step snake. Eight steps. So maybe the treatments are better. Are you?

Can we find a black mamba mouth? I think we've... Look at that thing. Smiling at you. You'll be dead soon. You see the bubbles in the back of it's thrown? That thing. animals would you have to be afraid of living in the Congo?

There's one more animal. Large spotted Jenei. What was that? I ate one of these. What is it? I've ate a cobra. You had a cobra? Yep, I ate a monkey. How did the cobra taste? Let's start with the cobra. Dry. How'd the monkey taste?

Very good, tender. Indiana Jones, they ate a lot of snakes and monkeys. I feel like, you know. I'm right up there with them. Large spotted jane. I ate one of these guys. They look like a mongoose, but they're spotted like a, like a leopard. Never seen that animal. Yep, I ate one. When you got back from the Congo, was it weird to be like

among a bunch of people and like, you know, you go to a city or something or like, ooh, we ate sloths. Oh, boy. Yeah, it was weird. It was weird to come back. Yeah, really? I ate a parrot.

And a parrot. Can you pull up an African gray parrot? I've eaten a bunch of these, actually, but, uh, got a bunch, but several. So you've got all the food groups in the pyramid. Look up. large spotted jane or sorry

African gray parrot price like to buy one to own it or to eat one because sounds like it's on the menu for you yeah we ate it but look at that they can be $4,000 sounds like it's like a I was eating a delicacy

$4,000 Kobe beef it's like the best that's better than Kobe beef their legs are little I would eat $4,000 parrots there by accident no by accident it was just food well it's just food do you know how we would trap it how you make like a glue and you put it on a branch yeah open up a palm nut because they eat palm

nuts and so they come and they fly and they drop their feet down and then they're stuck there like glue they collect them live they're not dead so let me ask you this they put them out of their misery how much money could we raise selling those parrots for clean water damn 10 of them would be 40 thousand dollars that's a well in Tanzania at least I mean it's two else in you got yeah dude sell two birds one well two birds one well dude birds for the wells birds for wells birds for wells word hey we're on to something okay can we secure that before tomorrow let's do this birds for wells work let's do this when you got back from the congo was it weird it was weird i had culture shock i couldn't sleep on a bed for like three to six months yeah that's what i was wondering that's crazy it was hard for me

you get my dog the water. I mean, I had to. Yeah. I wanted him to be well hydrated. Yeah. I had to do the right thing. You got to be a, you got to, you got to walk it. Yeah.

Even with your pets. But I could use the toilet. You use a toilet and water that you don't have. Right. I know. I know. Exactly. This is with your head.

When you're not fighting and you're not giving your time to people less fortunate, you're also doing a podcast these days. I am overcome with Justin Wren. Yeah. And young Amy. Young Amy. And Amy's here as well. Sidekick, partner in crime.

Your Amy's sidekick is the way I feel. So partner in crime. Amy came up from Austin, producer extraordinaire, right? Yeah. Yeah. She's beautiful. Yep. Thank you.

Joe Rogan has young Jamie. Yeah. I have young Amy. Young. That's pretty good. And you guys both have. pretty good and you guys both have wildly successful podcasts is what i what i've heard the amy edward show she's amazing she's beautiful so tell me you're gonna go watch they you want to watch youtube is it on

you can listen but you're doing yourself a disservice a lot of people ask us to post the videos of our pod i'm like you guys are really into that shit huh yeah people really love the videos especially when you look like amy yeah well we we we have we have faces we have faces for audio for radios with the nowadays. So it's a good thing podcast has video now because Amy's been a radio girl. Yeah. But she's always deserved to be seen.

Absolutely. Absolutely. How many times can I get her to do that? Somebody's, to wave it off. Somebody's a good thing to do, right? Somebody's in the dog house or something. Chris,

you're pretty good. Oh, shit. Pretty good. Chris. Hmm. I'm married. So, So I want to get married.

I'm looking at it. I want to marry that one over there. Let's do it on the show. Let's do it on the show. This would be the first. Should we propose on a moderately successful podcast? Amy. You're not going to propose right now.

Will you marry me? We're reserving that for a later date. How many times have I asked you to marry me? A lot. He does it? Does he just, does he just daily? Like 3 o'clock, Thursday. Hey, I hear motivation is like showers.

Yeah. They need to take one daily. You need to take a motivation daily? Yeah, you need it daily. What do you guys talk about on your podcast? Because I saw you had some cool-ass guests. Who's your favorite guest, Amy? Oh.

Besides Chris Long. It's been tough to choose because everybody's been just outstanding. Nick Santinistas was our first and he was such an overcomer. Who is? Are you familiar with him? I think you told me a little bit about him, but for people that wouldn't know him. He calls him a self-proclaimed unicorn. Mm-hmm.

He was born with no legs and only one arm and one finger. and just that's like true overcoming. I mean, you know, we can't even... He can live... He's lived more life than you or I put together probably. I think about Steve Lee's workout partners with Dwayne the Rock Johnson. Yeah. He speaks before Tony Robbins any event.

Yeah. He climbs mountains. He flips tires. Mm-hmm. He snowboards. He makes me feel just like a sack of shit. He sells out crowds. Yeah, like, what are we complaining about?

He sells out crowds in Beijing of 50,000 people to come hear his story. That's incredible, dude. 50,000 people, like the Super Bowl almost. How does he process, how does he process being, like, just present and, like, not being able to do some of the things? Like, in the beginning, did he talk about, like, when he first came to the realization that his life was very different? His parents gave him a fork or a spoon and said, learned to eat. He did it. How?

He learned how to use his potato, which is his other arm that's a stub. and he used that with his how does he do it finger elbow I mean finger potato and flips scoops bangs the thing yeah

if you guys didn't hear the audio one of the guys in the studio wow yeah that was cowboy I think cowboy cowboy cowboy read that's incredible man we had a guy with no arms and no legs come talk to us at the Rams and he I think he climbed killie wow yeah dude some of these dudes are just and girls are just incredible.

Yeah. Well, how can people help fight for the forgotten? So you can go to two, well, two birds one well. To birth one well. To birth one well. Hey, dude. Two birds one well. We did it.

Dot org. I think we did it. Stop the desalconization. Do it right now. Do it right now because we want you, you hearing this voice right now. Hey. We want you to be our first donor. Need a parrot.

We want donors from all 50 states, 60 different countries. Like we've had to fight for the forgotten. But from one. podcast called Two Wells.org. Two birds one well. We got to get on it right now. Two birds one well? We don't want the...

I'm trying to think how we do this. Peter wouldn't come after us because it's promoting... No, we're saving them so that Justin doesn't eat them. If you don't... I'll never eat a bird again. If you don't... I'll never eat a parrot again. If you don't donate, parrots will die.

Oh, I'll live stream it. I'll live stream us trapping them. filleting them. I wish I had my rock cone in here right now for this part of the conversation. My joint in here. I wish I had a spark up for this part of the conversation. But how can they help fight for the got forgotten? They can join our fight club.

Yeah. That Brad Pitt is not a part of. But we might get Doug Pitt. Wait, we get Doug Pitt. We'll get Doug Pitt. You know what's, brother this week?

Oh, no, you didn't tell me that. It's Doug Pitt. It's Doug Pitt. It's Doug Pitt. I call him. Hey, I call, I call, I call, I call Brad. Doug Pitt's brother.

Hey Brad, did you know your Doug? Here's the thing. I think Doug can beat up Brad. I think Doug wins in a fight. I think we do it for charity. We do it for two. Two birds, one well. Dot org.

Fight night. Two birds won well fight night. Two pits, one purse. There's actually four pits in that fight. Arm pits. Yeah. I'm with you. Eight if we count leg pits.

So for real though, fight club. They can join fight. Fight club.com. And they're not going to have to get punched by you. No, no, not fightfortheforgotten.org. Fight for the forgotten.org. Ladies and gentlemen, please. Yeah.

Join our fight club at fight for the forgotten. org. It's $5 a month or more. And you'll get some swag. Yeah. Like a bracelet. Kind of a dollar shave club for good. Yeah.

And then a t-shirt. The man, dude. And then potentially join for like $20 a month or more. You get access to me once a month or once every other month. We do a live Q&A. Like a camp. me know a situation no i should talk with you hey hey how much do you think people would pay to just get shoved by you shoved yeah like like into a ball pit or something just let justin run

throw me into a ball pit could he make like one of his shoves like an nfts and you know so that or something wouldn't somebody go for that yes because i would rather see him like throwing a carl into a ball pit on an nfts than him knocking out like another skilled fighter it's more fun it's like holy shit what's happening here maybe we get carl to donate his time for me to pile drive carl if you're out there i'll drive them in a ball pit carl if you're out there drive them in the foam pit a phone pit if you're out here carl which you're not because we don't have any assholes to listen to this carlo and kathy you can still make you're listening to this get carl to give us your life savings um hey um fight for the freon dot org yeah slash fight club

i think that's where it's a forward slash please go and support the podcast overcome with Justin Wren. A little bit of business there. We could really use a follow, a subscribe, a comment, a review. You're really good at that.

And share. Oh, man, you're good. You're good early. You're good early at that. I've been doing this motherfucker two years and I can't, I can't plug my own pod, dude.

I literally fumble over what the website is. We don't have a website. We don't know my Twitter handle. Oh, Overcompodcast. com. Fight for the forgotten. org.

Fight for the forgotten. Or two wells, two birds, one well. Or you can catch him at a mall somewhere because I learned this today. It's the last thing to leave you with. After October. After October, he's a Santa Claus. Yeah, for free. He goes and does the Santa Claus thing.

There's no shit. How many years has been? Nine. This year will be nine. Nine years. First year with Mrs. Claus. Well, last year you didn't really because of the pandemic. It was the shame.

Well, you know. Still dressed up? It's, hey, you probably did. Still got in spirit at home. Made videos for donors at Santa. Oh, ho, ho. I'd go. I do like, what's that little dance?

Crank that soldier boy, maybe. Is that the soul? I'd go, ho, ho, ho. I don't know if that's a soldier boy. I think we get made fun of it. But tell me this. You were sharing with me how much money does the Michael Jordan of your sport make?

And I'm talking about Santa Claus sport. $350,000 just for the Macy's Thanksgiving. I prayed. I'd be the youngest when I come 45. Speak it into existence. Hey, Macy's, you hear me? This is the first time I announce it publicly, but I'm coming

I'm coming for Santa I'm coming bad Santa two birds one well that org he hasn't accepted a dollar

and nine years work his Santa and supposedly the ones in Hawaii make like triple and they should because it's hot there it's hot there Justin Redd Justin Redd my friend fighter advocate

and just a wonderful Santa Claus, man. Yeah, I'm going to be, I'm going to be the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade Santa. We'll come do a live stream. Two Birds, Onewell.org. That's how you can support. Thank you, brother. Thank you. I love you. I love you. I love you. Twitter, we got our shit together, okay? We got a real handle reflective of the name of the podcast. Guys, we did it. Applawed. And now go follow us at Greenlight. Twitter is is at green light we also have a new youtube channel name as well green light tube hope you guys like that