Green Light with Chris Long - Kirk Herbstreit on BCS Scenarios, Cancelled Michigan/Ohio State, Best College QBs. Chris Talks Cowboys/Ravens, Dez Wine-fest.

Episode Date: December 9, 2020

(00:44) - Welcome. (03:00) - Ravens vs Cowboys. (17:55) - Fantasy Football Update. (27:45) - Kirk Herbstreit on CFB, Ohio State vs Michigan, and College QBs. Sign up for your DraftKings account at https://www.draftkings.com/sportsbook and use promo code : Greenlight Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think Justin Fields is much closer to Trevor Lawrence than maybe most analysts think. I think most analysts say it's Trevor drop and then you have these other quarterbacks. See, to me, by the time they draft these quarterbacks and they do all their workouts, I think it'll be a 1A, 1B. Happy Wednesday, guys. This is the Greenlight Pod. I'm your host, Chris Long, and it is almost midnight. I stayed up.

I'm still up. And I had to watch that football game. I had to watch it for Amazon. I do Twitch Live with Kerry Champion and Andrew Hawk Hawkins, as I call him. And it's a lot of fun. But I also do NFL Next for Amazon as well with Kay Adams and Andrew Hawkins and James Coe right before it. So I'm running on fumes here, guys. I'm a content machine.

I'm a content factory. No caffeine in me. I know we talked about that this week on Twitter. Not a fan of caffeine. For me, it's poison. For you, maybe it works just fine. Or maybe it's a drug addiction. I mean, you should hear yourself sometimes with this coffee stuff.

A lot of truth is said in jest. I love it when people are, they're like, if I don't get my cup of coffee, I'm going to kill my kids. And they smile and you're like, you're fucking serious. If you don't get a cup of coffee,

you're going to like yell at your kid or throw your cat. you don't think you have a problem and I'm the drug guy you're the drug people I quit coffee late in my career I did it because it makes me incredibly anxious and negative and pessimistic and

it's just a caffeine, a stimulant for me is not a good thing like the crashes it make me real moody and that sort of thing and you know the anxiety factor of it I eventually gave it up and I've never been happier and I don't need anything when I hit the floor in the morning you know when I hit the floor in the morning

You know, when I hit the floor in the morning, I just go make content. So you should also, coffee Twitter is so sensitive. Oh my God. Tell them you don't like coffee. Holy shit. They're like, well, aren't you just Mr. High and Mighty? I'm like, it's a fucking beverage, dude. It's a beverage.

It's a beverage. Get over it. Okay? It's not a lifestyle. It's a beverage. And it's a drug that you need to not walk down the stairs. and assault your pet or whatever it is. If I didn't have my cup of coffee,

like people will justify really bad behavior because they didn't drink coffee. I don't get it. Anyways, I'm still going. It's almost midnight. That game was predictably ugly in a lot of ways for the Cowboys, but it wasn't perfect for the Ravens, right? You needed the Cowboys to miss three field goals

for that not to be a little bit more of a nail biter. You know, Lamar missed some throws. he also made a great throw in the corner of the end zone. We were talking on Twitch about this. This is such a funny time for the Ravens, right? Because so many expectations coming to the year. They've had injuries. We talked about that before.

Greg Roman's scheme, maybe getting a little stale. Questions about that. Lamar talking about in the media that people are calling out our plays. And, you know, coordinators, their sticks get figured out. I mean, Greg got figured out a little bit in San Francisco. He got figured out a little bit in Buffalo. In fact, it never got off the ground. the same way. And now

there's going to have to be an adjustment period, whether it's Lamar, because he certainly has to improve like any quarterback in the league. And I think they have to improve the way they help him, you know, with the skill players on the outside, and with him developing as a passer outside the numbers

subsequently. If you're going to invest in those skill players, you've got to be able to make those throws. He's lived in the middle of field. They run for like 300 yards a game. You know, that can change. And sometimes people forget this kid's young. Players develop, man.

And his offense, as great as it's been the last couple years, has put a ceiling on his passing. And, you know, their investment in weapons outside has put a ceiling on his passing. Because, like, you know, if you don't have a ton of weapons outside, why are you going to just continually force it out there? And if you're making, hey, in the middle of the field, you do that. But I say all that to say this. this felt like an adjustment period

a chin check for that offense especially over the past month and a half of the season and then they get the COVID thing and so coming out of that tonight there's a bunch of questions I have in my head the first being what type of team's going to show up are they going to be that fresh team that we had all these questions about

that we're like Tennessee hasn't practiced and they're ass kicked by the bills how could they possibly how could they possibly win a game in the situation that they put themselves in The Ravens had an outbreak here. And although Dallas isn't very good, you worried about the sleepwalk. And well, they didn't quite sleepwalk.

And they weren't quite, you know, finishers tonight. They just kind of ran the shit out of the football and beat up on a really bad football team in the Dallas Cowboys. And didn't capitalize at times. And honestly, the defense was a little disappointing. Cowboys had a lot of chunk plays. And like I said, they left points on the field. Here's the outlook after this win for the Baltimore Ravens.

They are 7 and 5. They're tied with the Raiders and the Raiders own the tiebreaker. They're looking straight down the barrel at a Cleveland matchup that's going to look a lot different than the first one this season. When they first played this season, I think Baltimore is a great matchup the way they've been the last year and a half. And Cleveland has not been the type of team to step up to a challenge like that. until I guess recently, I understand the built-in excuse there looking at that game. That was a, it was a drobbing.

It was like 3810 or 383. They were coming out of camp with no preseason games, a brand new head coach and a bunch of, you know, a bunch of expectations, no OTA's nothing, and they get their ass kicked. Lots changed since then. You know what the funny thing about these two teams is? You look at this the other night,

I think we were talking about this, Cleveland, you count their playoff team wins, their marquee wins. They get the same amount as Baltimore. And one of those wins for Baltimore is Cleveland. So you got one team who's trying to prove themselves, and you got another team who's trying to prove that they're not falling off, and these two teams are appearing to be two ships passing in the night to a degree.

I think it's going to be a good football game. I don't know what they're going to make the line at. That's going to be really interesting. but that's the Ravens tough test the rest of the way. The rest are cupcakes, and the Ravens don't play down to cupcakes. In fact, tonight I thought they did that more than they usually would. Let's just say this about that game.

Cleveland Browns fans, I got a lot of respect for you. I mean, you're just, you're football people. I would put you on the Mount Rushmore fan bases in the NFL. Let me not. Anytime you say Mount Rushmore, somebody's like, cease and desist, there's a segment called Mount Rushmore. I get that, but they probably are my Mount Rushmore. I'm looking at Eagles fans.

I'm looking at Bill's fans. I don't know who the fourth would be. We don't do Mount Rushmore anyways. I'll pick another arbitrary number. I'm looking at these fans and I'm thinking to myself, like, this is a chance for them to get out over their skates. I saw a vanity plate today with the Cleveland Brown's helmet on it, and it said, we back.

And it was fresh. Like Joe Thomas retweeted it, like somebody had just gotten it. You got to keep your eye on this fan. fan base. They'll fuck around and get a bunch of tattoos. They already have tattoos. I think Cleveland Browns on the tattoo index of NFL fans like willingness to permanently mark their bodies with it's very tribal thing, right? I want you to know who my favorite football team is for eternity. That's a Cleveland Browns. Like there's a lot of orange helmets walking around on people's biceps. That's a big place for a football logo tattoo is the bicep. Actually, that's the only way I've ever

seen that tattoo displayed is when the dude's like, check this out and he rolls his sleeve up. That's a big Cleveland Brown thing. Don't fuck around and jinx the thing with one of these Super Bowl tattoos. I'm sure somebody's already done it. Stick to the vanity plates. I'm good with the kind of team pride light, you know, ill-advised tattoo light would be probably vanity plate. I'm a big vanity plate guy.

Stick to the vanity plates. Let's see if you can beat the Raven. Maybe you can. I think it's gonna be a good ball game. There's a guy when we won the Super Bowl in New England and we were having our parade and these were really packed streets and people were throwing like fireball shots up at us

and I don't remember a lot else. It was like drizzling like freezing rain and we had the duck boats and it was just a blast. There was a guy that was in the crowd and he was hanging over and he had his shirt off like one of these like Packers fans or one of these Patriots people who are not afraid of the cold.

And he was asking if he could come up on the float. And I think he had a bottle of liquor or something. So I was like, this sounds like a good chance to barter. And we had the guy come up for a second. It's very hazy. But he had a shirt off and he had a Sharpie and he asked me to sign my name on his, on like some part of his,

I don't know if his peck or his bicep. This guy's loaded. obviously, obviously loaded. Climbed up on the duck boat, I thought he was going to die on the way up. I was like, great, I invited a guy up on the duck boat with my first world championship I've ever been a part of. Some guy's going to mortally wound himself

trying to get up on the duck boat. He doesn't. He climbed up the duck boat like a fucking squirrel. Like the squirrel climbs up with the side of the tree. Next thing you know, he's up there. He's got the Sharpie, so I signed my name. What do I get in my inbox like months later? A fucking guy got a tattoo of my autograph.

I was a role player on that team. Like, what are we doing getting role players' names tattooed on our bodies? You know, I could understand if you got my Eagles signature tattooed. But, I mean, the commitment on some of these fans is unbelievable. And that's coming from a guy with a lot of tattoos. Cowboys, let me close the loop on this game. Well, first, Des Bryant, this thing was on a serious note, really a bummer. right before the game.

I thought one of the most interesting things about watching this game was probably seeing this redemption story, this arc for him. I don't know what Des Bryant's future in the league is. I don't know what the viability of him staying in shape and being able to get back on a team next year is. He's been out of football for a while. It's hard to come back. Everybody's kind of rooting for Des.

You know, I like Des. I've always liked Des because to me, Des isn't fake. Des is more of what you see is what you get guy. He's not a guy trying to, you know, posture an image. He at times has let his emotions get the best of them. You know, he's had to grow up a lot. But, I mean, besides being a kind of fun football player, a physical wide receiver that the defensive player could appreciate,

even for a cowboy, you just, he's just, what you see is what you get. And I think everybody was really rooting for him because he's so transparent. I think everybody saw on Twitter, like he's just, he opens the book. and that can be kind of endearing. And so you saw his journey and you saw it on Instagram and wherever he put it and you know he really loves football

because who fucking stages a comeback like this to be a guy who's not getting a ton of snaps who used to be a perennial pro bowler. That's hard on your ego and to do it in a pandemic guy loves football. So he's worked so hard

to get back on a team and look he's got this chance to play his old team. He probably, feels some kind of way about and this is probably a game where he gets a lot of touches and he doesn't get the opportunity. He's in warm-ups. He's so excited

and they pull him because John Harbaugh says it was a crazy kind of deal. Eric came down and told me that's Eric Deccosta that Dez had an inconclusive test and we had to wait on that and the league told us we couldn't bring a player up if he tested positive. If he tested he couldn't play. So basically what happened is

they had an inconclusive test. He, I guess, had to go get another test, and the test in the middle of the game came back positive. So Des, naturally, comes right off the field. Again, wide receivers are great at getting their gloves off. Win, lose, draw, incoclusive test. They can get right to those iPhones, man. They can get the gloves off, get the iPhones.

And he's tweeting, and I understand, like, you could really see it at first that Des was so into this opportunity. and he'd probably circled this for a while and I don't blame him. And he was kind of robbed of it and that sucks, man. It's really because you're rooting for him. But after a little bit, he was back to his normal, more jovial self. And he was tweeting at first he tweeted that he said he was probably going to be done for the year. That seemed reactive.

You could tell he was emotional about it. Then he's asking people to listen to his business that he's working on. and then he's having people post pictures of wine. I think Des went home and got into the Merlo, and I don't blame him, if that's safe. And we reached out. I think I missed him by just a little bit. I said, fuck it, I'll take a stab in the dark.

I know Des a little bit. We've crossed pass on and off the field. You know, since I'm out, do you guys want to hear about my business I've been working on? Sure. I said, come on the pod, let's go. Our listenership is nearly 100% consumers. If that's not a sell, I don't know what is. I think I was a little bit late.

He said good team win and turned it in for the night. Maybe one of these days we'll get Des on. Des, we'd love to have you on the show. A lot of Eagles fans here, but I think everybody respects your abilities as a player and was hoping you'd get back and overcome what you dealt with to get here. So sucks for Des, all in all, kind of an up and down night for the Ravens. But the Ravens did run for a country mile. today and that is the lead with the Cowboys, right? That run defense is historically bad.

Those run fits are historically bad. We've talked about it. Listen, the worst run fits I've ever seen in recent memory. And I've been on some really bad team. So, you know, I got a PhD in bad run fits. And I had a few bad run fits in my time. So I'm not acting like I'm holier than now, but you got guys for the Cowboys that are running around in different directions. People are running in different directions of the football field. It doesn't make sense. If you wanted to get Bill Belichick to tap out and give you some

information like in the movies, like in a spy movie, you just strap them to one of those chairs that they always pull up in the vacant warehouse that's always there. And whoever needs to get that info, they just slap some Cowboys All-22 run fits on the wall, grainy projector.

Just watch that shit on loop. Bill would tell you anything. Like, Bill would, he wouldn't be able to take it. He would break. That's how bad these run fits are if you know football. And it's hard to watch. Zeke Elliott said tonight, everything is in front of us.

That's what he said after the game. Now, I didn't catch the tone, but that's how you know football players are like, we, we fucking, we drink the Kool-Aid, we'll do it. Like, that team's going nowhere right now. And somebody asked me what they need to do. Listen, tanking, doesn't happen on the field, doesn't happen with coaches. We talked about Greg Williams.

But what's in the best interest of this team right now? Just keep doing what they're doing. Keep losing. Listen, sign DAC because there's nobody out there that's going to be that good that you can get in the free agency market. And really right now where you're closer to being good is on offense. So you sign DAC,

you draft maybe the kid from Oregon. I know that we talked about that with SINSI. Who knows who's going to be picking two, three. But if you can, bolster that offensive line and lean into that offensive identity and fix the defense because the defense it's kind of like when we talk about Carson Wentz

and the quarterback thing and we will get more into the decision which I thought was probably the sensible one considering the writing on the wall in Philly the players on Dallas defensively are not as bad as they're playing unless you

choose to believe that this is the worst collection of run defenders in the history of national football league this isn't happening in a vacuum so scheme matters personnel matters, but I believe you can change a lot more schematically on that side of the ball quickly than you can if you don't invest in that offense, because that's

where you're strong right now. Also, shout out to the Washington football team of Ron Rivera and Alex Smith. I mean, talk about a fucking feel-good story. The only thing is Gibson went out with a toe. I don't know what's going on with that. Having checked, that could be a big blow for them as they try to slide in. Cowboys are bad. What else? The Ravens are, we don't No, they might still find a way to get in.

Oh, real football, fantasy football. Before I get to that, I should probably tell you who's going to be on the show today, right? In case you didn't read, Kirk Herb Street. We're going to get into a whole bunch in about five minutes here. Notre Dame, Clemson, the trilogy that might happen, Ohio State, Michigan. That got canceled right as I was getting ready to go on with Kirk Herb Street. And I was like, man, he's not going to probably do it. because all the bigwigs are going to call him.

He stuck to his word. He did a pod with your boy. He was really gracious. This interview is a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. I've always liked Kirk Herb Street, man. I like watching him on TV. College game days always made me feel normal.

I'm sure you feel the same way on a Saturday morning. And even though they're doing it in front of nobody and, you know, Lee's off on a Zoom call somewhere in his indoor pool. He's always in his indoor pool, by the way. That's how you know. You're living the Florida life. You got the indoor pool. And you know you got to put the glass all around it

because there's gaitas, gaitas, big snakes, you know, like boa constrictors and shit that people let out of their yard. That's why in Florida, you wouldn't catch me dead with a pool without, you know, one of those biodome structures. Lee Corso has one of those, and I'm glad.

I mean, I like his chances against the gator, but protect him at all costs. Who was I talking about? Kirk Herb Street. One of the goats, man. doing it 25 years. Can't believe that. We hit that and more. And by the way, the guy I know he doesn't sleep because he's in a different place every weekend. I'll catch him in the morning, one place, doing a game at night. And he hasn't aged in 25 years. The fuck's going on with that, huh?

So yeah, we talk about the playoffs. We talk about what's going to happen maybe with Ohio State, Michigan, and coaching, coaching college coaches, really interesting discussion on what makes a college coach good in the pros. And, you know, it's usually not an automatic, as you guys know. So we'll get into all of that in about five. But quick fantasy update here, fantasy football. It's playoff time, which means all my players get to go home. They get to go on vacation.

All my fantasy football players have booked their vacations to various resorts. Because in the fantasy football world, there's not a novel coronavirus. going on there's not a pandemic so these guys can go wherever the fuck they want to go like a shit team does in january everybody's booking their travel that's what my players did but we did not come in last guys and if you listen this pod you know the reason why you don't want come in last because i volunteered before the year not thinking that i would be this bad two years in a row because that was pretty bad last year that the last place team is going to go on a on a billboard like a sizable billboard in a heavily traffic area

outside of Charlottesville, Virginia, which is a sprawling metropolis in the business district. You know, 29 north, if you know the area, I'm thinking. Maybe up near Ruckersville. Anybody from out of state, look at that on the map. It's a lot going on there.

There's a spot in Ruckersville there where I bought all my Chrome accents on my first F-150 in high school. You know, I had the Chrome brush guard. I worked masonry for an entire summer. Khrutov Masonry. saved up to buy all the incredibly trashy chrome accessories that I put on my F-150. I had chrome door handles.

I had like a little chrome flame sticker. I had the big like three-foot wide version of the lady, the hot babe laying on the Ford logo silhouette on the back of my truck. Like the trashiest car. I mean, yeah, I outfited my truck right there in Rutgersville. I opted for the lady because I thought it was classless to have Calvin and Hobbs pissing on the Chevy logo. And I really don't have anything against Chevy. I just had an F-150 at the time.

Ruckersville, a lot of business there, some hotels, some motels. People are going to see the loser of this fantasy football season as they come in and out of Charlottesville, haven't decided which direction. It's not my brother Kyle either, okay? Kyle, myself, a couple other dudes were in the running down to the final gun. Monday night was it, and then the playoffs started. Kyle Long did not have his lineup set at 5 p.m. And nobody wanted to tamper, right?

I don't want to see my little brother on the billboard, but I can't tamper. I can't reach out to him and say, hey, buddy, you don't have your lineup set and you're down 0.26 points on the season to the other last place guy. Big fella. Fucking sign Robbie Gold, dude. You left your kicker thing open. Luckily, I didn't have to tell him that. He entered the game down 0.26 points, and he made the lineup change within an hour of the kick.

The difference between being on a billboard and not being on a billboard is that small. The inches we need are everywhere around us. Kyle found that inch. he found that inch an hour before game time and because of that heads-up play

Robbie Gold propelled him over the finish line seventh place comfortably a few points out of the billboard danger zone so congratulations Kyle for averting that crisis

of being dressed up like a moderately successful trial lawyer with that kind of gray scale background the Markson Harrison thing you guys know that's that's what we're doing instead we're going to be uh we're going to have my buddy mike lewis up on that billboard so mike congratulations you're the oldest dude in the fantasy football league and you found a way to be on the billboard but i got to say mike looks younger than

most of the dudes in the fantasy football league we got some we got some weather dads in there and and mike no kids it's keeping you young but it is kind of fucked up you're the oldest guy in the fantasy football league by a solid margin here and you ended up on the billboard yeah so averted a disaster there and um i i just want to reprompt you guys keep guessing uh as far as this new theme theme music the sample we cleared to be the new intro music on this podcast you guys are so close i told you the day DM the Greenlight Twitter. That's Chalk Network at Chalk Network.

That's the Greenlight podcast Twitter handle. DM us with your guest for the artist of the song that we're going to be featuring is our intro music going forward. We've got over 500 submissions so far and nobody has guessed the right answer. No repeat submissions.

If you're an egg or you're somebody that we find is double dipping just to try to get a trip to Disney World because that's what's on the line here. If you guess the right artist, you're going to Disney World, you and a significant other or a friend.

But I prefer if you're not married or have a girlfriend or a boyfriend that you go solo because that would be super awkward and cost effective for the podcast. Just keep guessing. But don't play dirty. Because if you play dirty and you guess multiple times,

we're going to ban you from the pod forever. And we can do that. We'll find you. and uh and we'll unsubscribe you just to name a few you guys have you guys have swung and missed at different junctures you've had wayland jennings who's you know obviously my son's namesake i suppose and that that's not it's not gonna be a wayland song although that's a great idea isn't it if this one ever gets stale which it won't we could rotate we've i've heard some my morning jacket i didn't want to put my people that i know in like a bind but maybe

someday we have some MMJ Tying off one of our podcasts There's also been Who else? What were some other guesses there? Cowboy Reed Sturgel Not not Sturgeal

John Prine RIP to the legend Pearl Jam, nope Not Pearl Jam So you guys are You guys have got some good guesses Keep them coming Like I said you got over 500 entries right now

And uh And nobody's gotten it right Nobody's going to Disney World yet And you've got I don't know We'll probably roll that thing out next week sometime. So you got the weekend here. We'll keep you updated. Guys, without further ado, we got Kirk Herb Street, and I have a very special guest. One of my favorite players in the

NFL is going to be joining us for our Friday show, in season, active player. More guessing for you. Here's Kirk. Draft King Sportsbook, America's top-rated sportsbook app is wishing you the happiest of holidays. And to kick off the season of giving, draft king says new promoters. and odds boosts every day this week. Luckily for us sports fans, there's an abundance of action taking place this week. Football teams are in the hunt to secure their place in the playoffs. While college basketball season is just getting underway, there's no better place to get in all of the action. If you haven't tried Draft King Sportsbook yet, head to the app store now,

because you don't want to miss this. Download the top rate of Draft King Sportsbook app now and use the promo code Greenlight when you sign up and get up to $1,000. That's code greenlight to get a deposit bonus up to $1,000 for a limited time only at draft king's sportsbook. be 21 or older in New Jersey, Indiana, or Pennsylvania only bonus comprised the first deposit bonus and first bet match, each up to $500 deposit bonus requires 25 times play-through. Restrictions apply. See, draft tanks.com slash sportsbook for details. Gambling problem call 1-800-gambler. Or in Indiana, 1-800-9 with it. All right, so first college football guest of the year, well, we had McGee on over the summer.

But Kirk Herb Street, when I think college football, I think about Kirk Herb Street. I think about Lee. I think about those guys on college game day and the way that's kind of shaped my college football experience. And we were just talking offline. Kirk, I haven't seen you in probably 13 years almost. Yeah. It's been a minute. Yeah. You've had a hell of a run, by the way, since the last time I saw you.

It's been all right, man. But I got to say, you grind as hard as anybody. I'm watching TV in the age of COVID. And I know there's travel and that sort of thing and where you stay. You guys are still burning the candle at both ends to deliver the package. And I wonder if it's more of a grind this year than usual, or if it's been a different thing that you've just embraced? You know, it's kind of all you know.

I mean, going back to even before you played, it's just all I know. And I love that part of it. You know, I love grinding. I love that aspect of, and you could talk to, you know, anybody, whether you played the game or you cover the game, if you have some success and you're able to maintain it,

it's really all about the work that you're willing to put in. Real quick on my background is I wasn't like you, I wasn't at all conference, all world, first. pick, you know, kind of guy. So I looked in the mirror and I saw, I got to grind. Even, forget as a player, when I went into as an analyst, when I sat on the desk in college game day, I was 25 years old. I've been there 25 years now. And when I sat there, I knew that the guy in I know Fowler, I know Corso, who's that guy? And that was, instead of being embarrassed about

that, I embraced it. And I just went to work, you know, and I just, my brain, I just thought, they might not know who I am back in 1996, but I'm going to be the hardest working analyst and most informed analyst on TV. Like that was just my goal. And so that's kind of where I started my little foundation. And that's when I look in the mirror today, that's what I still see. So I've had a lot of, you know, I've been around a lot, had some successes. But when I see myself, that's why when I saw Brady's saying, I'm not comparing myself to Tom Brady,

but that interview he did when he started tearing up and crying after he'd already won like three or four Super Bowls. but he was kind of remembering draft day for him. And here, all these years later, it was still really emotional for him to talk about that being a six-round pick. And I think, you know, Tom, I don't know him that well. But one thing I've loved about him is how he's maintained a competitive spirit throughout all the success and hasn't lost his edge.

He still sees himself as a six-round draft pick. I think that's the key. I think a lot of people forget that with Tom's kind of his psyche. And, you know, he's got his way of leading. And he's got, anytime you play at the Death Star for like two decades, everybody's going to find a way to try to hate you. And I do think that Tom, for everybody that sees Tom is such a chalky option to root for, he is in his mind that underdog.

And he doesn't talk about it a lot. But I think when he's vulnerable, that comes out in him in that moment. You know, it's interesting you say that because I think he remembers where he was. And to your point, you remember exactly where you were in 1996. By the way, I didn't know you were 25. I forgot about that, dude. Yeah. That's great.

College game day trips are probably a lot different at 25th and 50. Dude, the other thing is there was no, there was ESPN. There was no like other channels. It wasn't like a Big Ten network, an ACC network, an SEC network. It's almost like there's so many launching points now. How did you see people play? And that's the crazy thing to me is like, I talked to my dad about this in the 80s. like when they were literally on plane rides home like you know in my career we were watching the

games that we had interest in across the conference in division in real time on the airplane right and oh yeah there's multiple channels and you have the internet so I can kind of follow the score app or whatever I need to my dad they would land and if buffalo was playing across the country you know you'd hear about it on a landline somebody would call somebody and tell you what happened you'd have to wait until the newspapers in the morning so so how do you as an analyst you know back in the 90s, see as much as you can possibly see and talk about things with expertise. Yeah, that's when direct TV was really just initially getting started. So we would a lot of times, Saturday the highlight for me is when game day ends,

this is before I would a lot of times fly to go call a game. That's when I worked on Thursday. I did some of your games with Torrico and Corson. And so Saturday was just game day. And then we would stay, let's say we're at Alabama and Georgia or wherever we are, I would sit there, we'd have this little trailer and we'd have three TVs or four TVs, and we had this guy that hooked up all the direct TVs. So thankfully, they had that.

So at least you were able to watch it. But, you know, right now, as soon as I get done with you, I'm going to click on my, I'm doing Miami of Florida and North Carolina, and I'm going to click on video right here, my computer, and boom, I can do whatever I want. It's very, very different era, obviously, but you were still able to break it down. And a lot of times you would get on the phone. You'd call coach. Right.

And you'd break down and get a little bit more detail with them. But it's, I think about this, the internet, I don't know, when did it start? It's funny because I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, Kirk's hitting the pay phone to call, you know, the Nebraska code. It's not that we're not that old. Right. It's just 996 seems like a long time ago. I know, man. It is, it's nuts.

But it's just my, I guess my point going all the way. back there is today global pandemic yeah you know you I don't know how much you're traveling but like you you you fly and you landed it you go to your hotel and it's like a twilight zone it's empty right it's so weird you go down i haven't left charlottesville like i don't leave charlottesville because i don't have to right now for work or anything i do my amazon stuff from home uh in my studio down the way i do my podcast every day from home i've only been out to montana for vacation that's it i mean i've been in Charlottesville since March. And so sometimes when I'm looking at you traveling around for somebody who's so accustomed to, hey, like when I touch down on campus, like the energy, the life is

awesome. Like that's the infectious part about college football. It's got to be like, you know, another dimension almost. It's so strange. You know, you're routine oriented when you do, I guess, anything consistently over the years. And I got my routine down for travel. And right now it's, it's just a different routine. And when you go into a hotel and there's no one there, usually there's a buzz. I mean, it's like you can drop in from anywhere and you're like, what's going on here? You know, normally, right now there's a ghost town. No one there. You go to a whiteout, which is one of the greatest scenes in the sport. You go to your hotel, you walk down the hallway, creepy dark lighting and like no one in the hotel. And you don't

get to see your friends so much. I think one of the biggest, coolest things about being on from the outside looking in is I can see the team. aspect of what you guys have done for a long time. My dad, you know, on Fox, there's a team aspect to it. And, you know, there are protocols that are in place and probably common sense stuff where you guys don't get to do the same things. I mean, you know, you talk about Lee, how important he is to you. I see when Lee pops on. Yeah. You were like, I miss my, you know, I miss my guy. Yeah. Yeah. How hard is that? You don't get to see him. I know. It's such a good point. And maybe people don't realize that,

you know, you, seeing your dad go through this, you can really, understand it, but you're, it's, it's a team, it's a family. And we have usually a on-site Friday production meeting with 40 different people, people on camera, behind camera, everybody is in there. And it's a lot of ball busting and everyone's just having fun. Usually Lee's right in the middle of it, making fun of it. You know, he's 85 years old and he's holding court. And we don't have that. And we're doing all of our meetings like you and I are talking right now. It's a strange time. but then you got to go on air and be like, yeah, man, let's go. Let's talk to cross football.

So that without any crowd, there's, you know, it's crickets around you. And so it's been a different year in that respect for sure. And that's affected how you guys pick college game day locations probably, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we went to Coastal last weekend, which is become a really good story. They had a few fans. That's the only time we've had fans in 14 weeks. they had fans and of course they were socially distanced but they were out there they were making

noise which was which was kind of weird uh to have but yeah we we have no fans at our at our shows i mean our show if we go to pin state or any of these spots you could have 10 or 15000 people at the show and then to go from that it's almost like being a i'm not saying we're we're you know artists or you know you're at a concert but it has a little bit of a feel like that. Yeah. And you walk on the stage and there's just sea of humanity and you take that away. It's no different than what your guys are doing playing a game.

It's amazing what they're doing. And I think anybody who's working in any industry in sports that's drawn, that energy is missing that. I mean, you talk about the one game you're getting ready for right now, UNC and Miami, Florida. Miami, Florida is not in contention to playing the ACC championship. this point. But the reason, right, I mean, there's nothing mathematically. It's locked in. The only, the only reason I'm always interested in seeing UNC, besides the fact that they're generally

exciting is I love this quarterback. Yeah. I mean, last year seeing him and Mac that marriage, I mean, I feel like when they hired Mac, a lot of people on the outside looking in were like, is this like a bridge? Like what's going on? Like in the ACC, this guy's over the hill, that sort of thing. How serious can he be about this job? I've enjoyed watching him have fun. I feel like players have been surprised that, you know, we talk about older coaches. This is one guy that's kind of been able to circumvent that barrier, like that age barrier. How good is Sam Howell long term? I mean, where do you see him projecting?

I know you don't do the pro football stuff as much, but you know what these guys look like and comparing them. And then, you know, what's the future look like at UNC? I'm like you when McWen, I thought, and he worked with us for five years. I thought, you know, he just missed it. He wanted to go back to a place that he'd already been and try to recreate it. But I know Max Hart,

I know he wouldn't just do that to just say, I'll come back for a couple of years ago, give someone else a chance. I think he's looking at it like he's 35, 40 years old. Like he's hung up his sleeves and he's digging in and he's having a ball. He did say something interesting. I did the Notre Dame game last week,

and he did say something interesting about he really is trying to make an effort to have more fun. These coaches, And you can relate to this. Bill Snyder told me one time, he said, you know, the losing is agonizing and the winning is a relief. And I'm just like, damn, that's a tough existence as a coach. And he's a hall of famer. And that was his, that was agonizing or relief are his two ways to get through a game.

And I think Mack could relate to that. We were talking about that. And he said, I've come back this second time with a new appreciation with the kids and these young coaches. and these young coaches. I'm trying to be a mentor, trying to help people in their future. So I think it's real. You know, I don't know how long he's going to be around, but I think it's real. This kid, you know, Sam Howe to me, he's in a system.

I don't know how much you watch Carolina or what they're doing. You know, they probably do more run-pass option than anybody in the country. And it's not, you know, most of these RPO's, you're reading one player in conflict, usually that hang player or maybe a safety coming down. And your eyes are immediately on him. And he's going to dictate what I'm going to do. If he's going to fill in the box, I'm going to throw it. He stays wide.

I'll give it. They don't even, they don't do that. So they're just reading a space. They're reading grass. And basically it's almost like backyard football. If the guy's open, throw it. And if he's not hand it off. So it's a very, Phil Longo, who was at Ole Miss with DK Metcalf and A.J.

Brown, that's their OC that he brought over. And so if you look at working with, they've got a chance to make big plays. But as you saw in the Notre Dame game, if they can't get those two backs going, it almost is like a virus to their system. Notre Dame completely took away two NFL caliber running backs. These North Carolina backs are freakish. One's a little bit quicker and the other one's more of a power guy. Javante Williams probably is going to be a guy you'll hear about a lot.

the NFL. And I think Michael Carter will end up playing as well. But how it gets all the attention because he's a quarterback. But to me, it's really about those two backs. If those two backs get going, they're going to score 45. Just deal with it. It's funny because it's like it sounds like the backs aren't getting enough credit and they read it from they read their RPO's from the top down. Yeah, exactly. It's totally counterintuitive. Yeah, it is. Basically, they're telling him, if you feel like you got him, you know, glance route, it's slant. If you got him, just take it. No harm, no foul. I'm not going to come over and yell. I should just do what you got to do. And if you don't like it, just give it. You know, it's very different than any

RPO that I've ever heard of. You talked about coaches and we'll get to the Ohio State, Michigan thing in a second for people listening, but I'm just so interested in some of this coaching talk because there's a ton going on right now, obviously with Harbaugh. I'm looking at Matt Rule in particular this year. I always find it fascinating as a former college player who had a hard-ass college coach, and we were talking offline. Algro was a tough dude, and we both looked at the guy, and you've talked

about how much you loved the production meetings with him. Every day was like we had those great stories, the Parcells, the Belichick's, but he coached that way too now. And I think you can get away with that in college. But it's harder, especially in today's pro football world, to tailor your

kind of mantra that you're taking from college and then applying it to coaching and walking into a room full 30-year-old men. Well, that's becoming less and less prevalent with the new CBA and the way they're getting rid of bets. But what's the key for a college coach to leave the college ranks and tailor his game to the pro game? Like, why does Matt Rule work?

I thought he would be everything about him to me was Parcell's Tree College coach. He's going to be a hard ass. He's like a players coach there, and he had a great first year. By the way, the next guy that's going to be Matt Rule is Brian Dable. You remember that? Yeah. But I'm saying same guy. Yeah.

Like if you, me and you and Brian Dable were sitting at having a beer and hanging out. Well, I was watching him last night. And I took a picture to send somebody because I go, that's my guy. They had him. I love Dave. Forget football for a second. The four of us are hanging out just sitting around BS and talking ball. We'd be done an hour later, we'd walk to the car and you'd be like, I fucking love both those dudes.

It's so cool. Those are my kind of guy. So that's where I would start with Matt Rule. So he's not a, he's tough and he's demanding, but he's a people person. Oh my God. Like he's the guy that wins over a room. So the players are going to, you know, some people are, they're drawn to you and other people are deflected about your aura. He draws people in.

You want to play for that guy. That's who Matt Rule is. Beyond the XOs, to me, the real story is how does Cliff Kingsbury, go from Texas Tech in Lubbock where he can't, you know, win enough to compete for Big 12 championships, gets fired, goes to USC for a couple months, and then ends up going to the Cardinals, and he's doing pretty well. And I know we're in an air raid world right now. We're transitioning to more of Kyler Murray and Lamar and Baker. And, you know, it's just a different world from when you played. So I get that that's maybe while the door opened. And I'm not saying he's not doing

well. I'm just saying that one made me kind of go a little bit like that. Matt, that's usually the odd like this guy's first off the culture fit to me and lubbic was like all right just the dude in sunglasses it looks like he's like you know a dude that just walked out of the supper club in LA like he which is to the sort of the listeners is a terrific nightclub you know in my younger years I used to yeah yeah but like Cliff Kingsbury it's not a Lubbock guy and like and so he's not he's not a cultural fit there and then everybody's rolling their eyes at him in in in Arizona and now they're like a year ahead of schedule. Now, to be fair, I think him and Steve Kahn deserve a lot of credit for doing the thing that they're doing now. No first contract quarterback is safe anymore in

the NFL, right? Right. Everybody's interchangeable now and the leash is shorter for these young quarterbacks. Like, look at, you know, Sam Donald's probably going to be on the move. There's a number of guys. So I think Cliff deserves a lot of credit, but you're right. I think it's personality. I think it's if you are a cool dude and you level with people and communicate, you can ask whatever you want of these guys. You're professional. Like, like, I don't know how you feel about Joe Judge. I did an NFL game.

Okay, so I did an NFL game. I don't know Joe Judge. I covered him when he was in the Egg Bowl at Mississippi, like, as a player, but I didn't really know him. So they asked me to do a Monday night game the opening weekend with Fowler. We did the Steelers and the Giants. So I had an opportunity to sit down with his court, well, Zoom, with his coordination.

and with him. Again, I didn't know Joe Judge. I got done talking to Joe Judge. Guess what? I was drawn into Joe Judge. Like, I loved him. I loved what he was doing. I even said to people, they got beat by the Steelers. I go, I'm telling you, man, this team, they're building something here. They got a chance to go in a better direction. Of course, they started like 0 and 4 or whatever it was, but they're starting to kind of piece it to get a little bit. The defense is playing out of their minds. But I'm just saying his energy. No, I love, no, I'm on board with you. When he got hired, I thought people were a little bit dismissive of the fact that he was a special teams coach. Some of the greatest coaches in our game came from that, from that third side of the ball,

where I think one of the biggest draws being special teams coach is you, every morning when you come in, you get to meet and greet people from both sides of the ball, communicate with them. You understand all the position groups. And so, and also another thing that's a positive is, listen, you can delegate. Like, that's your thing. And so I think what was really cool was after this win in particular, you think about all the things they've been through. You lose Sequin, you start Owen 5, you got no

camp, you have no, you have no OTAs, you lose Danny Don's the last couple weeks, and then you go beat the Seahawks who are very volatile, but I love the program they're installing there. And to your point, he's a hard ass, and I think a lot of players, including myself when I first, and I know Joe, which, by the way,

as funny as a cultural fit, he's such a Philly guy, but somehow I thought he was from Mississippi when he came to New England. He almost bought the accent down there and like mashed it up with Philly. Yeah. Like when I first heard that press conference, he's like, we're going to go live every day. I was like, oh, shit. He's going to lose the locker room. He better chill out with this New England stuff. But the thing was, as his personality came about and the players started to understand who he was, they were okay with doing that work. So I think that's a lot of it, to your point. You mentioned the Steelers Giants game, okay? I turned on TV. I was delighted to

hear you on there. I was like, this is great. Yeah, I hadn't heard you do pro before. Had you ever done a pro game before? And what was that adjustment like? Never in my life, never, never had done one. There's a lot of talk about, you know, what were the last couple years about maybe doing some of that. But I've never never really had an itch to do it. I'm a college, passionate college football guy. I love the sport, the energy, the pageantry. I'm just that guy. But I went into the NFL. I was happy to do the game and of course we're in the middle of a crazy world so it wasn't the normal experience but i i was so apprehensive about how because when i do a college game when i do my zooms this week with miami and north carolina you never met a guy who's more in his comfort zone

than dealing with these coaches and coordinators because i've been doing it for so long you know everybody too yeah yeah and so i go to the nfl i study all this film trying to be prepared it's like you're over-prepared. I'm talking to Witten about Jason Garrett's offense. I talked to him for two hours. I must have taken 18 pages of notes on Jason Garrett's scheme, you know, before I even talk to Garrett. So I did this for like two weeks, all this preparation. So I was ready to go. And that was before I even got to the Zooms. I was just, I was very interested to see how the players and the coaches would react to me. Right. As far as, would they respect to me? Would they look at me like, what is it?

what's this college guy doing? And I was blown away with unanimously. They were, they were so professional, so cool about, you know, just stepping in and sharing thoughts with me and being very open and trusting me.

And I was just very grateful for that because when you get that, you can still do a broadcast, whether they do that or not. But it just gives you confidence to be able to go out and do your job. when you get production meetings that are helpful and respectful.

And so it was across the board. So then I went into the game and it was almost like I got all the answers to the quiz. You know, I just knew everything. And so I left there and I'm like, damn, I want to do another one. That was fun. I had a ball doing it. Do you feel like it's the same game? Yeah, I mean like.

I'm a standpoint, but it's the same thing calling it, I'm sure. It's really, you know, college and the NFL, are doing more and more of this, you know, the schemes. Like when you played, I don't think we could have said that. Obviously, going back to when I played or your dad played, it was just such a drastic NFL is on Sunday. And here's the college game, whether it's option or air raid or whatever it was, tempo, zone read, you know, Pat White, you know, and Steve Slate.

And like, you're not going to see that in the NFL. But now you are. I mean, Lamar Jackson. and what Russ is doing in Seattle. I mean, you know, Cam Newton when he was, you know, in his prime stuff that he was doing. So the game has really changed on Sunday. And I just feel like Andy Reid, he looked at Pat Mahomes and he thought, you know what? I don't know.

But I've been a West Coast guy since I came into the NFL. But we keep trying to figure out these quarterbacks in college. Why don't we adjust our stuff to a guy like Pat Mahomes? And I'm going to learn his system. And I'm going to tweak it and come up with. some stuff and have an imagination, but I'm not going to sit, just be, I'm a West Coast guy, and you better learn my offense. He's brilliant in my mind. And same with what they're doing with Lamar. So I think it made it pretty seamless as far as the transition on at least that one

game with the Giants and the Steelers. Another, yeah, another point, you know, talking about college coaches and coaches in general is the malleability to do, you know, to, to, to, to, your team and your scheme to the players you have. And you talk about Andy Reid. He's one of the greatest of all time when it comes to offensive minds. Right now we're so lucky. We've got Sean Payton. We've got Andy Reid.

We're getting to see them win creatively every Sunday. I mean, look at what New Orleans is doing right now. Let's do the playoff picture because we just got word right before he came on. Ohio State, Michigan gets canceled. Ohio State needs, you know, one more win. The Big Ten, they're not going to tell their cash count. No. I mean, right now it's three o'clock on Tuesday.

We just got this. So don't hold us to it. But if you've been a Big Ten, are you in a bind here? Do you feel like? You know, I think the ADs are meeting on Wednesday. And I think they're going to try to discuss if Barry Alvarez kind of brought it up last week, the AD at Wisconsin. He said, you know, listen, if Ohio State only gets five games, we may have to reevaluate this.

And he goes, they're our best team. And we make up the rules. Why do we have to sit here and say they can't get in if they're only have, if they only have five games? So he kind of brought that up just as a talking point. It wasn't, that's what we're doing. But it made everybody in the media think that's what they're doing. So we'll see. The other thing I would throw out is we sit here.

I think Ohio State may try to find a game. You know, I don't know other games within the Big Ten. I don't know who's going to cancel. I don't know who's going to be available. I don't know if there's a chance like you see in the Pac-12. They sometimes shuffle the deck. I don't know if that might happen. Or off the top of my head, Texas A&M,

I know. That's the one. I'm saying. Yeah. So I'm wondering if we get a like a juiced up coastal Carolina, BYU, backyard football. But I mean, the Big Ten, they'd have to say, and the SEC would have to say, hey, we've tried to keep everything in-house because of the COVID and restrictions. They'd have to be willing to open up. But Ohio State has a lot more to lose there.

Absolutely. It really, to me. Things they can win that game. Yeah. Now, keep in mind, they still have their COVID restrictions. they lost three starting offensive linemen. They're starting middle linebacker, who's a four-year starting middle linebacker. So they're down some guys, but you're right.

It's what do you have to gain versus, to me, what you have to gain is image, PR. You know, like people look at Ohio State and the SEC, like they're overrated. Here's a chance to go out and say, okay, even with guys down, we'll play anybody. Let's go, let's go play. That's one side. And the other side is, is it worth the risk? because chances are they're going to clear them to go to Indianapolis even at five and you still get a chance to be a Big Ten champion, even 06 games.

You still got a shot to get into the playoff, you know, in a crazy year like this. So I don't know what they'll end up doing. I think they'll try to stay in-house first in the Big Ten and see if they can find another game. What kind of loss would it take for the Big Ten to look like they have egg on their face on this thing? The only way, if this plays out and they don't get a game this week, They go to Indianapolis, they play Northwestern, for argument's sake, if they win that game, they're sitting there at 6 and 0, and they're crowned Big Ten champs. We got Notre Dame and Clemson, and we got Alabama and Florida. If Clemson beats Notre Dame and Florida were to somehow beat Alabama with Kyle Trask, then you have an interesting scenario there.

You know, then you have Notre Dame and Clemson, in my mind, would both be in. I think Florida's a lock. And then I think you're sitting there debating six in Ohio State versus whatever Alabama 11 and 1 or whatever they would be. I think it's six games. I don't know if that's enough, even if you're a Big Ten champ. Alabama has been so good for this entire year through all this. I would think that Alabama would probably go ahead of them. You know what I'm saying?

So that's where you end up potential. Now if Alabama wins, and it doesn't even matter what happens in Clemson, Notre Dame. Florida would be out. I think Ohio State would still probably end up going. So I think if you're an Ohio State fan, you're a huge Alabama fan right now. So with the trilogy here, the possible trilogy, we got Clemson, Notre Dame. So like with the guys that Clemson was missing, because here's the thing about Clemson,

I watched this backup quarterback play. Fucking guy doesn't look like a backup to me. Nobody at Clemson looks like backup. So how am I supposed to gauge how different this match it would be? I think it would be a thriller again, but what would you make the line for that game? With everybody Clemson has coming back on a neutral site, not that it's, you know, actually Notre Dame had fans. I mean, it was actually a decent atmosphere.

I would guess Clemson, I'm going to guess, Falica, the bear would be way better at this. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to guess Clemson by four. Yeah, I was going to say, okay, that makes me feel good, which I'll probably pick the wrong side of that. So I set the line and then pick the wrong side. You know, I got a show with Stanford Steve every week, so I'll see what Steve has to say. Oh, yeah, yeah. Ask him. Ask him, and he'll get his info from Bearer. But I'll tell you what, I'm going to give defense some love because we live in an era of offense. Everybody talked about Trevor Lawrence not being there.

But they have a three technique named Tyler Davis. He's number 13, who's going to be a great pro. And they got a guy in the middle, James Skalski, who has started like, I don't know, 40-some games at middlebacker. He's the glue. You ever watch Brent Venables going, crazy. He's the guy that just makes it all right. He's your James Laronitis type. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You got 13 and 47 in the middle that didn't go to South Bend, didn't play. And then you got an outside backer who's replacing Isaiah Simmons, a guy named Mike Jones, who's been around. So three like really, really talented experienced players. They returned four starters from last year, and they had three of them that weren't able to play in that game.

So that, to me, is probably even bigger than Trevor Lawrence coming back because of the job that DJ did in that game. I think he threw for 400 yards or something against the Notre Dame defense. Before I get your Commonwealth Cup, not that, and we got a lot of listeners in Virginia, but not all our listeners in Virginia. They'll have to suffer through that for a second. But how much errors between, you know, for these NFL teams they're going to pick in the middle, in the middle of the first round or at the bottom of the top 10 who might need a quarterback, much air is there really between? I think we do this thing where we assume we did it last year with Justin Herbert. Justin Herbert, he just doesn't have what it takes. It's going to be developmental.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw him at the combine. He couldn't hit the broad side of the barn. Right. How does that happen? And how much air is there between one, two, and three right now with Trask, you know, on, you know, the back end of that trio? Trask, I'll just start with him. He is limited physically, but knows his limitations. And, and Dan Mullen's scheme is, It's all about timing, accuracy, decision-making. He's a 10 out of 10 in those three areas. So I'm trying to think, I don't know who an NFL quarterback off the top of my head, he reminds me of, but I'll be interested to see you better have the right scheme in mind

when it comes to him. Like Trevor Lawrence will stand at the right hash and you can run a 20-yard out, and he's going to throw a laser. Yeah. You know what I mean? He's just got that old. The quarterback you noticed. I used to watch football and never noticed the quarterback,

but now that I'm like working in football, just kind of falling in love with watching guys like Justin Herbert. It's what it looks different coming off the ball. 100%. Yeah. Just look different. And it looks different for over too. And that's how he is.

I think because the way the NFL is going and what we talked about earlier, I think Justin Fields is much closer to Trevor Lawrence than maybe most analysts think. I think most analysts say it's Trevor drop. And then you have these other quarterbacks. See, to me, by the time they draft these quarterbacks and they do all their workouts, I think it'll be a 1A, 1B. So I don't know who's going to need a quarterback. I assume the Jets.

You mentioned Darnel moving on. There's all the other assumptions that Trevor's going to go to New York. I don't know who that two, three, four, but I think Justin Fields, the guy can make every throw. He's dynamic athletically. He can create. he's really worked a lot working through progressions so he can sit in the pocket and actually work through it so I think he's a lot closer and then I think there's a drop and then I think it's a debate I don't was it going to be trash is it going to be Zach Wilson at BYU you right

the North Dakota State you know I mean there's a lot of guys that might be in that that next tier uh yeah the kid North Dakota state he could be real rangy where he could I mean he could be one of those real late risers and you'd be how the hell did they pick him this high. I don't know. Real quick, Harbaugh, prediction. Does he stay? Does he go? And how interested do you think he really is in going back? I mean, I'm hearing reports that he is really interested in the pro game. Yeah. I mean, you know this better than probably me. The coaches trying to get into the mind of Jim Harbaugh, anybody who report. Yeah, good luck. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody who reports anything is simply speculating. There's no,

inside scoop. Jim Harbault doesn't provide that, you know, maybe other than maybe to his family. So I have no idea. I personally love him in college. Like I grew up when he was a player at Michigan and Ohio State and Michigan would have great rivalry games. And I still, when I see him, I still see him in number four at Michigan. And so for him to be the Michigan coach, I said this when he went there, I would have thought it'd be going like this right now. I mean, Utah, it'd be like So would I. I was in the NFC West. I knew how good those teams were. Yeah, like, and you tell me, how does he, how does he do what he did at San Francisco? And then things are not going the same way in college.

You had a lot of talent on defense. Okay. That defense was like, ridiculous, name to name. And, you know, you had the Kaepernick thing that fell into his lap. Actually, the game that Cap comes in, it was Jolon Dunbar, knocked out Alex Smith. on the near sideline, I was pursuing that play two yards away. Next play this tall, lanky kid comes in and lights us up, and we end up tying the game. That was the beginning of Kaepernick. And I think that year, that infusion of something new,

where people didn't have any tape on them or anything was like, it was just the perfect storm for that. And I also think there's no denying. And he's a heck of a football coach. And the games change. Whenever people talk about how much the games change, I always go back immediately to that old line in San Francisco. I talk about it on the podcast once every two weeks.

You know, I.U. Pottie, Staley, you know, all the listeners know the whole line by now, Frank Gore, Delaney Walker and Vernon Davis in a big wing, like, and they run power encounter. So I don't know if it's an issue of, I don't think it's a recruiting issue because, you know, people like him. He's kind of a celebrity, right? But has it become a thing where Michigan being down and Penn State being down is allowing, like, in Indiana to slide in and be a long term kind of one. be insane. I think I think Penn State's a blip on the radar. You think Penn State's going to be right

back up. Yep. I think, I think that. I think if you look at that Penn State roster, you see NFL ability on that roster. Right now at Michigan, man, there's some here and there. But when Michigan was Michigan, they recruited really well in Ohio and in Chicago and they'd go down to Florida. they'd go into Texas. They'd even go to California. And they'd bring, you know, a lot of talent under the roster. When Lloyd Carr had it roll in or even before that, Beau, that was how they did it. And when you look at a Michigan roster right now, it's Connecticut, Rhode Island.

It's really bizarre. Is that intentional by him? I don't know. I mean, it's just a different approach. So when you say it's Michigan, they got to have talent, they have some talent. Yeah. But when you put them on the field with Alabama, in a bowl game, whoa, you see a noticeable difference.

Different sport. Yeah, a noticeable difference in skill. You put them on the field with Ohio State the last whatever years. There's a big difference in the skill spots, you know, so I don't know, Notre Dame's winning right now with three tight ends and offense alignment and pounding people. It's crazy. You know, you can still do it, but for whatever reason, maybe it's, this is the worst, obviously, it's been. Maybe COVID and all the restrictions and everything they've been. Maybe it's holding them back. But I personally hope it turns.

I hope he stays in college. But I know if he moves on, he'd have an NFL job. Yeah, he probably, probably would. You probably would. All right, real quick, UVA, Virginia Tech, the rivalry everybody's obsessed with around the country. Hey, listen, it's a rivalry again. They had 15 straight against him,

myself and my buddies going on and four. We don't need to talk about that too long, but we're back. We've held the cup for a year. What do you think about the same? state of these two programs. You look as, you know, a Big Ten guy, you know, checking in on on what's going on here. Well, obviously, I've covered the ACC for 25 years. So I have a pretty good feel for just, I don't, not the rivalry. Nobody cares about the ACC like ACC. You know what I mean?

Like nobody's like, you know, I'd love to see the league back in a really good place top to bottom. You tell me, because I just did Virginia Tech. And I don't know, man, when I used to go into Virginia Tech, and I know there was no fans there, it was special. Like, their roster, like, I always looked at Virginia Tech, pre-Michael Vic, post-Michael Vic. Pre-Michael Vic, they were blue-collar, out-workia, tough guys. And then Michael Vic took them to a different stratosphere, and their branding and their image, Corey Moore, welcome to the Teradome.

Like, they just became a brand. And the recruiting from that number seven, Tidewater area, it was just like, open the floodgates, everybody's coming to Blacksburg. And they had it roll in there for a number of years. And I don't know, I don't know as far as the budget. I don't know what their spending is. I know their facility looks great. But it just feels different. I can't say it's the same. I love Justin Puente. You know, sometimes guys fit in certain spots. Sometimes they don't. I don't know. I still think we're trying to figure out if he's a fit. No matter where he goes, he has a chance to be successful.

And then, you know, what's going on at your alma mater? Not only because they beat Virginia Tech, we're talking before we came on, it's a different approach with a guy who comes in from BYU, who won with defense and a certain style. And they got a young quarterback to build around. They hit bottom and they've kind of worked themselves back up. I just feel like the two programs might be doing this a little bit. Two ships passing the night.

I don't want to be two, you know, the listeners are. It feels that way. And listen, hey, some of these, you know, the thing I say about the ACC is I just want to see it really competitive top to bottom. And maybe this was me. I'm really nostalgic for the Raycom sports days, the Doc Walker. Yeah. Remember those days?

Yeah, man, absolutely. Like, you know, the blue collar class of the ACC, I want to see that lifted up again. And, you know, I love the fact that this rivalry is competitive again, at least to say very late. The only way that conference is ever going to get national respect is you have to get not only Clemson, but where's Florida State? Miami this year looks a lot better, right? That helps, but you're so right. What's that next tier? Is it a drop?

Or is it can teams like Virginia, Virginia Tech, Boston College with Halfley, can there be some eight wins? teams at that next tier that'll go into bowl games and go play a brand of football that people remember. That's the only way they can turn this thing around. Clemson by themselves isn't going to do it. Right. That's not lifting our national

profile yet. You mentioned Florida State, like listen, Florida State was the bell cow for a long time, and they're just a mess. I mean, I'd say I hate to see it, but I mean, like, you know, it's just I would love to see the middle class beef the conference up a little bit, and it was big for us going

the Orange Bowl last year and all. But, you know, it's, I feel like sometimes people don't even see some of these teams play. I mean, UNC, I don't think, has a lot of eyes on them. And they should. They're very entertaining. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, I'm doing that game with Miami. There's a lot at stake for both those teams. I want to ask you about Broncos is, is, have the fans embraced him? Do you see him staying there for a long time? Do you see him moving on? Yeah, I hope he stays there for a while, man. I really do because. what he's done is he sold a really unorthodox product. I mean, like what he did at BYU was much different than what you need to do in the ACC,

as you know, like recruiting's different. You talk about the Tidewater area. You've got guys, you know, from out west, Mormon dudes who haven't spent time in Virginia, recruiting. You know, he made a really good call and keeping my man, Marcus Hagan's on staff. You got kids, him came back. You remember those guys? Yeah.

That's like your homegrown talent, recruiting, and they're great coaches. So, listen, I think to do what you. you do. They bottomed out. They showed this year that it wasn't just a Bryce Perkins show, although that guy was like a one-man team. Yeah, yeah. And he's special. You're not going to get that every year. But the way they've been able to transition to Armstrong, get better throughout the year. Right now we're looking at being above 500 to finish the year and hopefully a common welcome up. And when you lose four in a row and you still have a chance to turn it around and beat your rival and be above 500, there's a lot to be said for that. Are they, did I? Did I, did I? Did I,

I see that they're not playing on the 19th, but they have elected if they get invited to a bowl, they'll go to a bowl game. Yeah, I believe so. I believe that's a lot. For me, the bowl game is a Commonwealth Cup. Yeah. So, Kurt, give us a prediction before we get you out of here. You've been so gracious with your time, brother. I got Virginia winning that game. Virginia Tech has some ability, but they lost to Liberty and the way they lost to Miami, I think, was a couple body blows.

They went up to Heinz Field and got trashed by Pitt. They put more in it. You know what? We're back on. We believe we can do it. They gave Clemson a half and scared him. And then it got away from them with a self-destructed. I just don't know.

I know it's a rivalry game and he'll try to get him back up. I just don't know in this year of so many obstacles to overcome. I wonder what how much spirit. Yeah. Virginia Tech has after being through all that. So I think Virginia will win the game. Well, I do wish Virginia Tech. the best in the long haul but not this weekend and i hope their spirit is very broken

at the stadium saturday night kirk herb street man appreciate you coming on it's really great to see you and uh keep up the great work you're making a lot of weekends normal so i appreciate it hey you got it and please uh give your give your family my best i sure will take it easy man all right bud