Green Light with Chris Long - Lance Armstrong! Doping, Cycling & His Life Journey. NFL Free Agency: Eagles & Saquon, Kirk to Atlanta & Sam Darnold in Minnesota

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

Lance Armstrong joins us in person from Austin, Texas to talk his cycling career, his doping ban and his life since the 2013 admission. Lance talks about the interactions he's had in recent years, both positive and negative and where he sits with his decisions. Lance also talks about his podcasts, investments and his favorite memories involving cycling. Before Lance, Chris recaps the NFL Free Agency blitz from the big moves the Eagles have made to Carolina's fails and Kirk Cousins continuing to make that Khol's Cash. Chris also updates everyone on his last few weeks, ties a bow on our trip to Austin for South By Southwest and details the shows and movies he's been watching. Enjoy today's episode and much love! (00:00) - Intro (2:30) - Layup Line, British Royalty Conspiracy Theories & Chris' Recent Movie & TV Show Viewings (8:45) - Chris seeing his 2017 Eagles teammates at the Eagles signing last week (13:20) - Lance Armstrong Intro (23:32) - Aaron Rodgers (33:55) - NFL Free Agency: Saquon Barkley to the Eagles, Kirk Cousins in Atlanta & Carolina's Fails (1:03:30) - Fletcher Cox, An Exemplary Teammate (1:08:00) - Lance Armstrong on his cycling career, the doping admission, being an American in a European sport, interactions with the public, podcasting & investing, his cancer diagnosis & raising $500 million for Cancer Research Want your Green Light Merch so you can look exactly like Chris and the fellas? Hit the website below and get kitted! https://stores.kotisdesign.com/yotehouse/products Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ Send any Talent Search submissions to: [e-mail] Include any video of your talents, takes and bits as well as a little bit about yourself. Love hearing from the Green Light fans. Also, check out our paddling partners at Appomattox River Company to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. https://paddleva.com/ Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light Tube YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenLightTube1 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Interesting story that you told that I thought was really telling was the story about when you pass that bar and those people are outside of their motherfucking you. One guy's like, hey, Lance. And I was like, oh, this guy wants to say, what's up? I'm like, hey, what's up? And he goes, fuck you. I was like, whoa. All right. And then all his buddies got up.

And it was girls and guys. So they were just like chanting. I'm like, oh my God. Like, I was enraged. Finally, the Uber pulls up. And I got in the car and I was so mad. And I'm sitting there just fucking stewing. I'm like, I have to take action.

So what's action? Turn around. Go find five other guys and turn around and see what happens? No. I mean, what's action? I got action for you. That's when I called the bar. And I told the manager, the guy, the manager was great about it.

He's like, dude, are you sure? I'm totally sure. I said, but you tell them it's on me. And then I understand. Right. And that to me was taking action. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast. Lance Armstrong joins the show today.

We recorded this in person down in Austin, Texas, during South by Southwest last week. A great time. Lance was a great interview. Really, really interesting. Chris and Lance get right into Lance's trials and tribulations in the cycling world, all the issues he faced and what life has been since his admission. So enjoy that interesting in-depth conversation at the end of the show.

We're going to kick things off. Chris gives you a couple updates from the last couple weeks, what he's been up to. A couple movies and films and TV shows he's been watching. A little trip to Philly he went on. And then he talks Aaron Rogers and the NFL Free Agency. All the Eagles moves that have been made had their set up for another run next year. Sam Darnold in Minnesota.

Kirk Cousins in Atlanta and a few other moves in the NFL. So again, thanks for being around. I hope you enjoy the show. Have a great weekend. Much love. All right, Reed. I want layup line today. to be wanted, dead or alive.

And I want, is that, is that Bon Jovi? Right, yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right. I want that to be the layup line because we're going to talk about conspiracy theories for a second today. I don't have a choice. It's NFL news. But, you know, like this Cape Middleton thing has really got my attention.

You want to talk about a conspiracy theory. I saw the photo. Wild, right? Where she's Photoshop. She hasn't been seen in weeks. people are talking about is there an affair is she dead is she gone is she somewhere else did she leave the royal family so she i guess she had put out a um like a statement that she was having surgery and she wasn't going to come back till easter whatever but now there's all these like

they put out that picture that obviously was photoshopped they had a couple other and all these super sluice are going back through and finding the original pictures from like 10 years ago but the best was that you know the movie saltburn have you heard of that movie? Oh, I've seen the movie. You've seen the movie. Can I tell you a story about saltburn real quick? Tell me the story. Our babysitter, who's lovely, uh, was hanging out in the kitchen one day with me and my wife, and we were looking to watch a movie that night and she was like, hey, Chris, you like dark movies, right? And I'm like, yeah, I like dark movies. And she's like, man, you got to check this movie, salt burn out. You guys, I mean, it is dark, but you will enjoy the movie. What I didn't realize is

it was like licking semen out of the bathtub drain dark. Sorry to like. Spoilers, yeah, spoiler. I mean, there's a lot to the plot outside of that. Now, it's an extremely well-written movie. I didn't like the production of the movie. I thought it was shot a little weird. I thought it was shot like a Lifetime movie, like a Made for TV movie.

But despite the multiple scenes that had me and my wife pretty uncomfortable and considering like letting the babysitter go during, I'm just joking, during the movie, like, it was still a good movie. So one of the fan theories out there, the best one that I've seen, is that Camilla is salt burning the royal family because she goes through and now, you know, the queen's passed away. Because she's fucking everybody. That's, that's one of the theories is that she wants the throne. and so one by one, you know, they, they, everyone has, has left like the queen.

So she fucked the queen? Yeah. Yeah, that's the fan theory. Okay. She fucked the queen. She fucked, uh, prince, what's his name? Uh, and, uh, now Harry booted. Mm-hmm.

So. The English are horny? Horny. Um, all right. Well, talking, talking about movies, man, like, this has been a whirlwind in the last couple weeks. I'll fill you in on where we've been, but I've been able to watch a lot of movies. I was down and out. I had an illness for a couple days.

I've been traveling. Like, for me, I watch movies on the plane. I don't really watch movies at home. I don't have a lot of time other than salt burn, which made that so devastating. It was like the one night you get to watch a movie. I've got to sit through that. But it was a good movie.

Okay, so I've seen the octopus murders on Netflix. Very interesting. Do not watch on an edible. It's hard to keep up with all the information in that documentary. It's pretty sketchy. It's about like basically a series of cover-ups within our government. It centers around an unsolved murder

and a guy that picks up the case as an investigative journalist, but like the last guy that did it, died. So, you know, he's kind of, he's out on a ledge with this thing. And, you know, there's a lot of twists and turns. But you check that one out. I watched Leave the World Behind with Mahershal Ali

and some others. I thought it was a very good movie. That was a very thought-provoking movie. And you saw, you saw, this might have been like two weeks ago or something that Verizon, or AT&T, He had all the blackouts. Yes.

And you know how that's the movie starts. Everyone was like, oh, wow, it really happened. It really was a warning sign. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Had people shook for a little bit. And then I got into 1883. I told you I couldn't watch Yellowstone, but I have picked up 1883.

And 1883 is very well acted. Really well done. And I think, I mean, obviously it helps that Tim McGraw and. Faith Hill are married. Are married in real life. Who, by the way, still looks great. Tim McGraw is a fantastic actor. I mean, I don't know if this is just the role that he plays well.

I think a lot of country musicians are good actors. Really Nelson's been in some movies and he's great. Yes. Low key, Trace Atkins. Low key. Good actor. Okay, well, I mean. He was great in Lincoln Lawyer with Matthew McConaughey.

Yep. That's right, which I didn't enjoy the movie, but he was pretty good. He was good. but I think I think Sam Elliott Sam Elliott is I have such reverence for the guy I mean like I don't know anything about him off screen but every time he's on screen he just he's just got gravel in his guts man

and you feel it one of the best voices of any actor one of the best voices perfectly cast in this movie and you know I think I I'm excited I'm like six episodes in. I don't know how many seasons of this thing there are. There's only one. Is there going to be more? No, it's just going to be a one-off.

But like it continues in 1923, which I've told you is okay. It's a little more drama-filled. 1923 is close to Yellowstone. But the son, you know, in 1883, the really young kid who's five or whatever. He, in 1923, he was all grown up. So he lives. So, yeah, yeah, he lives. Oh, fuck you, Reed.

Well, he lives through... I was waiting for him to catch an arrow to the neck or something. I mean, it was tough out on the prairie, dude. Yeah, he did not have it easy. And tonight, I'm going to see Dune 2, which has been described to me as an all-timer. It's all right. Oh, wow. Don't get your expectations too high for a movie.

I think it's good and worth seeing in theaters, but it was a little below what I was expecting. Okay. All right, well, here's the deal. It's been a whirlwind, as I alluded to. I talked about being sick, and I got pretty sick. And, you know, it almost ruined the family vacation. We were going to the Bahamas, the same place we went a few years ago, where I saw Justin Bieber in the wait room and that sort of thing.

So this is the kind of trip that you don't want to miss, man. And you don't want to be the reason your family can't go on a trip. So they kind of weekend at Bernice. They had that kind of set up with me. They got me on the plane. They got me down there, and I was able to recoup in paradise. But I was drained, man. And then we get home and I'm home for one night, leave Saturday morning for this signing in Philly, which I'll tell you about in a second.

Drive to Newark, hop on a plane, get to Austin at 10 p.m. for South by Southwest. I've got an interview in the morning. I have an interview in the afternoon. And then we're going to leave Monday morning early. And you know everything that goes into a trip in Austin. If you haven't been there, it's a lot of fun. We stayed up late. They have mushrooms.

I deleted beer. like it was 2010 and you know I'm so twisted up when I get home yesterday was Wednesday I started my day jotting down a to-do list as I often do and it said Tuesday to do I didn't know it was Wednesday until 5 p.m okay so like I'm all over the place right now the trip to philly was great man here's why all right whenever you're a part of a you know a Super Bowl team or a special team like that I think, you know, it's a lot of fun to win the Super Bowl, but you know it's also a lot of fun is getting the band back together. Anytime you run into a former teammate,

I can remember times where, like, over the past calendar year, I went up to Philly, sat on the baseline for a Sixers game. They hooked us up with tickets. We watched Embed go for 50 against the Nuggets. And I didn't know who I was sitting next to. I wouldn't have any reason to know who I was sitting next to. I roll up to the game, and they're like, hey, we just found out you're going to be sitting next to Malcolm Jenkins.

And, you know, like I hadn't seen Malcolm in months, and we talk intermittently, but sitting down for a couple hours watching a game, you realize that even if you spend time away from these guys, you are bonded. And I love Malf, but I love all these guys. And so if there's ever an opportunity that you run into one of these guys by happenstance, it is the best thing in the world. And I was coming up for this signing, and I knew that, you know, at the Expo Center in Philly, there were going to be a couple guys there. but I didn't look at the roster. And when I rolled up, they had Deuce Daly at a table. Big Dom was there. They had Brent Seleck at a table.

Me and Bo Allen were there. We go back in the back. Danelle Ellerby's there. Najee Good. Mike Kendricks, who's one of my favorite people in the world. You know, Brandon Graham rolls up because he's everywhere with that big smile. LeGarrett Blunt, Kenyon Barner. And Doug E.P., man.

I got to see my old ballroom. coach gave him a big hug we talked about Trayvon Walker we talked about some of the guys on his team it was fun fun catching up with Doug and when you see guys light up when Doug walks in a room it's a testament to how much we love the guy and we lit up anytime somebody walked in because every member of that team had a hand in it and we did it together and that's the most the most gratifying thing of being on a championship team is knowing that like the experience doesn't stop when you win a championship. It's every time you guys get together.

And it felt like it's been six years now, dude, over six, six years. We're going on seven years since this happened. And it feels like yesterday, but what we realized is we're kind of washed up. We're kind of old and we're kind of those guys at an autograph session who haven't seen each other in a while. And I want to mention one more guy. I'm sitting there signing autographs and somebody puts me in a headlock from behind. I mean, I turn around and it's Nick, Foles.

And, you know, that guy, I owe him so much. You know, we all owe him so much. But he's never too big for his britches, man. Like, that dude is the most down-to-earth cat, hasn't changed a bit. Love spending time with Nick. We probably talked for 20 minutes. And I would have talked to all of them for an hour and a half. The autographed people are sitting there like, guys, sign some fucking items here.

Like, stop the love fest. But that's what happens when you schedule all these guys together at the same time. And so I was so happy to see the guys. Like I said, we ended up in Austin later that night. And my first interview Sunday morning, and that's the interview that you're going to hear here, was Lance Armstrong. And, you know, this show, you've already read the clip. You know, if you're here, that's probably not a barrier to entry having Lance Armstrong on. I'm sure some people saw Lance Armstrong, and they didn't click on the podcast.

And I know that. You know, I got to know Lance through Water Boys. He reached out to me, sight unseen, trying to get in on the fight for clean water. He was doing a vodka in Aspen and wanted to donate a portion of the proceeds to Water Boys. And this is like out of left field for me. And of course, he's a polarizing figure. So that's a loaded Interaction the first time I talked to Lance

I didn't know what to expect And it's not like I've talked to him a bunch But we talked on the phone one day for 30 minutes And I like to take people of face value I like to meet them where they are I don't know cycling So maybe for me it's easier You know I'm not a fan

That was disappointed You know in real time I didn't experience that visceral reaction That so many did And it's easy for me me to look in context and say, hey, doping was done on a large scale in cycling. And, you know, I take that at face value. Maybe I'm being too pragmatic. Also, I think being a pro athlete, you see behind the curtain. So the magic is already gone for me and others that put on a helmet

or played in front of millions of people, you know, in some other sport. Like, we know what the business is like and sometimes the business is ugly. And sometimes there are things that the public doesn't know about the business. Certainly in my sport, doping is not prevalent. Performance enhancement is done in the shadows. We hear about guys getting popped, but that's not a thing that most guys in the locker room

are acutely aware of happening because I don't think it's happening on a widespread scale like cycling. So do I hate cheaters? Yeah, but I think everything's relative. If cheating's the norm in your sport, I have to look at that in context. And, you know, like anger is love-disappoint.

And that's what I feel like is the crux of this thing with Lance Armstrong. He was a hero. Like he was Captain America in a sport where Americans were not dominant. And he was this kid from Texas that came out of the blue and was like nothing we had seen. And I think we all got wrapped up in that thing a little bit naively. And when it all came crashing down, what you get is a visceral reaction. And I never got that because I wasn't following the sport. The people that he torpedoed in the aftermath, that's a tough one for me.

And that was a tough one for me preparing for the interview. In preparing for the interview, I watched a lot of other interviews. And I found that despite what I'd read in the comments or what I'd read on Reddit about Lance Armstrong, he has apologized for his transgressions. And it has been a long time. He's also done a lot of good. Okay, like I know some of you guys are rolling your eyes when I say that. I'm not trying to humanize the guy.

I'm not trying to make them a hero again. I said that during the podcast. I said, listen, Lance, like redemption. I don't like the word because redemption would allude to the fact that you have an opportunity to be a hero again. You're not going to be a hero again. And I think that's okay. Even if all the money that they raised in cancer research was built on a relative lie, it's still for good. And that might not sit well with people.

But money for research for one of the least. leading causes of death on the planet, I think it doesn't matter where it came from. If his career was built on some sort of a lie, I don't think that makes, I don't think the idea that he cheated and that he was a great philanthropist are mutually exclusive ideas. I also don't think the idea that he was a cheater and that he survived cancer are mutually exclusive ideas. Or that he was a great athlete. Or that he was a great athlete. We talk about that.

Like, you know, to be Lance Armstrong and get stripped of, you know, your medals or whatever it was, you know, there was one race. They had to go back to 27th or 26th to find a guy who wasn't doping. So there are advantages, relatively speaking, that he had that were natural and that were based on, you know, I think a rare drive and work ethic. Even if he couldn't package that in a way that he wasn't a monster at times. I think ultimately Lance Armstrong is a killer, man. And I mean that through the lens of sports or business or anything competitive. I think that's how he came up. And he said this.

He had a hard time turning that off in the wake of everything. You know, the self-preservation, if you're a killer and you've been protecting a lie that you think is justified because of the regularity with which the lie occurs in your sport, it might be hard to turn that off. I'm not excusing it. He acted like a child. He's admitted that. But when I met Lance, I thought, down to earth, regular, like, kind of disarming, definitely emotionally barricaded.

That's one thing that comes through with him is the guy does not know how to humanize himself well. And, you know, although I said this to him, you seem not to care about what people think, but I think you do care about what people think. more than you lead on. Contrition's a funny thing in this country and in general. Like in America, we forgive people. We do it well. You know, I don't think we get enough credit for that. You know, in the age of quote-unquote cancel culture,

which I don't think truly exists, I think it's important to remind ourselves that we have forgiven a lot of sports figures. Like sight unseen, we don't even talk about it with some people. what they've done. And, you know, I wanted to make this a conversation that hit everything. And for me, I was nervous about taking the interview.

I got noticed that we would get the interview three days in advance. From a research standpoint, for me, as somebody who doesn't know cycling, that's daunting. But what's also daunting for me is, do you take the interview or not? Even though I've talked to Lance, even though I'm somebody that believes that, you know, there are value in conversations like this, regardless of how you feel about Lance Armstrong, I knew that some people would say, don't take the interview. Ultimately, I decided to take the

interview because I think you would want me to take the interview. You, the listener, would want me to take the interview, and you would want me to ask questions about the ugly. So I did that, and I didn't want this to be a puff piece. And, you know, like, my job is not to cross-examine Lance Armstrong. The facts are all out there. There's no discovery period going on right now. I'm not Oprah in 2013. that's not my job there's nothing to uncover he cheated and along with many others he cheated and he acted like a child in the wake of the cheating but contrition again interesting concept we love to forgive i don't think he's very good at convincing people that he's contrite and i think part of that is he is a little bit emotionally barricaded and i think part of him really believes that some of what he's been demonized for has been discussed without context uh the doping part of it that's not what this interview's about This interview is not about me digging contrition out of Lance Armstrong. This interview, as I told him before we talked, is about having an authentic conversation.

That's my job to have a complete authentic conversation. And if I were to sit down with Lance Armstrong in a coffee shop and I were to ask him everything I wanted to ask him, 30 to 40% of that is going to be about everything bad that he did and that happened to him. And when I told him that, he didn't balk. And one interesting part of this was early on, this is kind of how you started things, was that you said, a lot of people said, I shouldn't take this interview. And him talking about that and being understanding of that was really interesting. It was interesting.

And it was just to take you behind the curtain, like, this is one of the tougher interviews I've had to do because of how loaded it is and also because it's outside of my purview as an analyst. But I will tell you something. And this isn't me tooting my horn. I am extremely self-conscious and lack confidence sitting here doing this podcast, expressing my thoughts, my takes, you know, setting out on a monologue like this or having a conversation with my friends. But when it comes to interviewing, I can do that.

I can interview anybody. And it's something that I want to do at a high level, and it's something that I want to make a day doing over the long term. So for me, taking an interview like this is a no-brainer. You know, when I got into this, I knew it was. wasn't just going to be interviewing people that everybody's going to love. And ultimately, if you don't love the fact that he's on the podcast and you don't love everything I've qualified, that's up to you.

If you don't like Lance Armstrong, that's up to you. But I think we did this interview in a way that we hit the ugly stuff too. And it was a fun conversation. It really was because it's pretty rare that you get to talk to somebody that's been to some of the heights and some of the lows that he's been to. again not a redemption story but a story and i think stories are worth telling and there are worse athletes in lance armstrong i'm just going to say that i mean like again i'm not caping for the guy there's an ugly side to so many sports stories and i feel like we aren't consistent in how we

want these stories covered and for some reason the lance thing is extra loaded i'm fine with that being the way it is and so knowing that we tried to do it the right way Um, listen, enjoy the interview. That's coming up in a little bit. We are going to talk about the NFL here. Because when I got back, there is, there was no break. There was no downtime. The NFL has a vice grip on the fucking sports calendar, man.

Like, oh, Mars Madness is coming up. Have a little bit of legal tampering period. Dude, I don't even know the ACC tournament was happening. Virginia plays tonight. I didn't even know who they're playing. I didn't know if we're getting in the tournament. But I do know exactly what Bryce Huffington. signed for. Okay? I know where Mike Gasekie's playing next year. I know where Devin

Singletary is playing next year. I know where Cushenberry's playing next year. You know where Cushenberry's playing next year? I do. Fucking Tennessee is a bummer in a half. Getting paid, dude. So sorry about that, Reed. But sorry, he's a damn good player. The bottom line is like, the NFL's got this thing on lock and the amount of action that happens the minute that legal tampering period starts is dizzying. And we landed. and, you know, I had a day to catch my breath, and here we go. So this week's so fucking insane, honestly, this is how crazy things are right now, that RFK, a third-party presidential candidate,

who is a known conspiracy theorist, is considering tapping New York Jets quarterback Aaron Rogers as his VP. Now, he's not going to win the election, but he could steal votes from one side or the other. Now, when I saw this news, it reads like something out of the onion, but I kind of kept scrolling. Like I acknowledge that this is probably true and that this is wild, but I kept scrolling. Like, I didn't fucking call anybody.

I didn't go show my wife. I didn't tweet about it. Like, is that a referendum on 2024 of the legal tampering period? I think it's a little bit of both, dude. Because this year is bonkers. You got John Cena walking around naked. there's there's uh there's there's there's nix sabin testifying in court like it's everything's upside down not to mention the consumption of content man like last night i'm looking at a guy

in indonesia or wherever he is caught in a fishing net getting eaten alive by a fucking crocodile okay i started watching these street fights on x and the next day, X is like, here, do you want to see you got to get decapitated in traffic in Mumbai? I'm like, no, I didn't ask for that, dude. Street fights are not a gateway drug for faces of death. Like, that's where we've, that's, that's where we are right now in 2024. It's just, it's bonkers, dude. Like, the athletes are making news, which is like, of course, what happens when you,

when you open up Pandora's box is, you know, everybody's got a voice, you know, you're going to hear about RFK and Aaron Rogers. You're going to hear about vaccines. You're going to hear about conspiracy theories. Speaking of conspiracy theories, the very next day, yesterday, another bit of news dropped on Aaron Rogers. The report was that in 2013, this is a wild development of the Kentucky Derby or wherever it was, Aaron Rogers talking to some reporters,

albeit off the record, I suppose. But when you talk to reporters, I don't think anything's ever off the record. And he espoused some belief, allegedly, that Sandy Hook is a conspiracy, that Sandy Hook was carried out by the government, which was, of course, a mass shooting that was terrible. And 25 kids basically lost their life. And, you know, it's just been one of these conspiracies and one of the uglier conspiracies, because what you are is you're calling grieving parents, liars. supposedly at the Kentucky Derby he's just walking around being like yeah I think the government did it I don't think it's real you know I think they

or that they're paid actors or something like that I don't know it's around the same time Alex Jones was saying the same theory yes and so listen you always want to give Aaron Rogers a chance to clarify which he did today and I'll read you that tweet as I'm on the record saying in the past what happened in Sandy Hook was an absolute tragedy I am not and have never been of the opinion that the events did not take place.

Again, I hope that we learn from this and other tragedies to identify the signs that will allow us to dot, dot, dot. It goes on. He paid for Twitter that will allow us to prevent unnecessary loss of life. My thoughts and prayers continue to remain with the families affected along with the entire Sandy Hook community. So, whew, thank God he didn't say that, huh? Boy, I was I was going to be really shook if Aaron Rogers

believe this. Now, I will say this. He doesn't say in this tweet if you really like pay attention to language he used. He doesn't say that he thinks he doesn't say that it didn't happen but he also doesn't say

that the government didn't do it, which is what he's alleged to have said. So, you know, like in the past he's he's he's he's been a wordsmith if you will when it comes to like some of these he's he's walked the tightrope with the English language at different points um I'm not going to go on for a while on this if Aaron Rogers said he didn't say it I guess I have to take him at face value and I understand that CNN and any news uh source if they have an interest in the election which I believe CNN does I'm not saying that a journalist wouldn't try to, you know, hatchet job somebody like Aaron Rogers. I'm not saying they wouldn't try to torpedo RFK's campaign so that RFK is not stealing votes from Joe Biden.

This isn't a rant against third party, you know, political candidates. I wish that there were 10 parties in this country, okay? Maybe not this year. Like this year I'm going to do what I'm going to do, but I'll give somebody a hard look. I'm not a big fan of our political system, so I'm not railing against third parties. I'm not being partisan here. But what I am saying is that if he said this, I would be completely done with consumption of his content. Thankfully, he didn't say it.

So I'm not saying CNN doesn't have it in on like the motivation to drop this news now. It's pretty clear what the motivation is. But if he really said it, this would be a canary in the call. coal mine. This would be, no, this would be a California fucking condor in the coal mine. Dude, the biggest bird ever in the coal mine when it comes to Aaron Rogers, man. If you believe something like this, you're just on another level of conspiracy consumption. Now, listen, I might look at this and say, hey, well, CNN has a motivation to do this. Maybe I cast some doubt over this report. If it were not for the fact that Deshaun Kaiser, who is

is not a CNN reporter and has no agenda has reported that Aaron Rogers is a 9-11 truther. And listen, I thought it was the fucking goofiest thing in the world that if that were true, and again, he might come out now and dispel that rumor, but if that were true, if Aaron Rogers was a 9-11 truther, how goofy is it to run out of the tunnel with a flag like your George Washington,

or John Rambo on 9-11 to open the season this year for the Jets. If he said that. I'm not saying that's what happened, but what I am saying is like, this stuff is dangerous. And whether he said it or not, there's just so many crazy conspiracies in this country, and they're not all created equal.

I do believe in some conspiracies. I believe, you know, the government planted drugs in black communities. I believe in, I believe in Can the assassination could be different than the story? I believe aliens might

have built the pyramids for instance I'm not above conspiracy theories but they're not all created equal. I mean our government did slavery Vietnam Jim Crow like they're capable of fucked up shit I just don't believe this one I just don't think there's enough evidence

and it's maybe a bridge too far for me so I can't even believe that we're discussing some of these conspiracies but that thing popped up and I think it's just a referendum on where we are. Not only that a quarterback is running for VP and a lot of his biggest fans were probably the biggest stick to sports people on the planet and now they're behind him 100%. And, you know, what's really dangerous is before he came out and said that he believes it happened, I was combing the responses on X and there's a lot of people who are like, he's right.

Yeah, it's dangerous. That's a dangerous thing that there's a lot of people in our country that believe things. like this now less dangerous but just as entertaining the same very day as Levi-on-bell caping for flat earthers I mean you can find that yesterday on on X2 because he doesn't believe that that he doesn't believe in a picture from space like he's got to see it to believe it now if we if we extend that logic to a whole host of historical events then I'm doubting everything okay so like I've never seen a Komodo dragon are they real

like I don't believe planet earth like they could have doctored that thing so um that fucking jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams how the fuck do i know how the fuck do you know that jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams dude you act like there's a there's a there's a there's a lab where they're flying seven 47s into you know giant skyscrapers with regularity that you have some sort of i maybe these conspiracies are over my head, but I'm good on Sandy Hook conspiracies. I'm good on 9-11 conspiracies. If that's what you're into, you probably don't like this show. So I figure I'm probably preaching the choir. I do know Carolina is an awful organization, which leads me into our next portion of the podcast, which is the NFL. And I'm going to move through this as quick as I can.

But listen, the first thing, this is a tough time of year for a guy like me born in 1985. I had Nolan run some numbers for me to see what I would have gotten paid in 2011 if it were today. And this is Nolan's exact writing. Now, Nolan used to work in an NFL building. Okay, so Chris Long, born too early. in 2011 contract year it was a year early they read me up a year early i had 13 sacks and 15 tfls i think i led the league in pressures too but those aren't a real stat depending on on on on who you talk to uh call it a money play score of 28 is what he says in 2020s

who turns 26 in april had eight sacks and 16 tfls a 24 on our money plays metric he just got paid following a trade to New York five years 141 mil 28.2 APY 87.5 total guaranteed in 23 Montes Sweat who turns 28 in December at 12 and a half sacks 14 TFLs 26.5 money plays just got paid 98 mil max 24 5 APY 729 I don't even want to compare myself to Hunter he's just an alien but this is what Nolan had to say so given age and production comps think the burn sweat deals are good proxies you hadn't missed the game in four years so i'll figure at least a four year deal if we just loosely average those deals i'd say four years 120 mil max

26.5 apy 80 mil guaranteed the deal i got four years 48.2 million 12.05 api and 235 guaranteed okay so i just want to say this i'm not complaining you know we talk about this all the time dudes that are a little bit older looking back at guys that played their position or are seeing the flooding of cash that comes with the passage of time in the NFL and the the salary cap going up you know a lot of them could be mad but but I don't get mad because I remember looking in the rear view of guys that didn't get paid anywhere near as much as us and who who built the league man like guys that that missed that that window where it really turned into a cash cow and and I always felt for those guys and

so I'm certainly not going to look at one of these guys and side-eye them. This is the market now. This is the way the cap's going on. This is the way it's good for everybody. All this money going to these players is a positive sign for anybody involved with football, whether it's a podcaster or a media member that's on TV. Like we're getting paid more because there's more money to go around. So life is good.

And these guys deserve it. And listen, that deal, change my life. You know, the pre-CBA, top-five picked money changed my life. This changed it on top of that. So I'm not complaining, but had I signed a deal like Brian Burns, you could kiss this shit

goodbye. I'd have never met you, motherfuckers. Okay? I wouldn't be doing podcasting. All right. So let me run through this. It is a painful time of year. It's also an interesting time of year because these players, they played different positions. I got a call from somebody yesterday that was wondering, hey, Chris, like, what should I

tell this guard, should he, should he be patient or should he be chasing teams down trying to get some buzz going in free agency? Well, look at the draft class. Like, look at the guard draft class. Like, I think more than anything, when you're a free agent, you think when you watch that first wave of free agents, it can be like demoralizing if you're not a first tier guy. Like later in my career, when I was finally a free agent, I was not a first tier guy. I don't even know if I was second wave of free agency guy. I can remember being on the mountain at 15,000 feet with a sap phone at Kilimanjaro calling home every day to my agent to see if anybody called. They didn't.

Okay, so I brought that sap phone for nothing. I got home, and it took a while, and I signed with the Eagles. But, like, for instance, this is a tweet from Bill Kala Rulo, or I'm sorry from butchering your name, buddy, but it was a good tweet, and he's talking about the Eagles. If you're a fan of a team, don't expect them to do all their work in the first phase. Okay, like our championship season, Patrick Robinson and I came. a month into free agency, Ligarup Blunt, May 17th, Timmy Jernigan in April, Derby in August, who by the way got paid 10 mil, he's still making money.

Bradbury, their second Super Bowl year, where they lost the Chiefs, May 18th, A.J. Brown in April, C.J. Gardner Johnson in August. So this stuff happens. You know, it takes time to build out a truly winning roster. And so, like, some of the people listen to this podcast are lamenting the fact their team's not the most involved yet, some of the most key signings happen later and they happen under the radar. I'm sure when those signings happen, like with Patrick Robinson or myself, most people weren't thinking like, oh, these are going to be game-changing signings. But like when you add veterans and you add role-playing pieces, like these are the differences sometimes and you winning the whole thing and you not. I'll give you an example.

The Chiefs. Okay, they're not making a lot of news, although I think with OBJ getting released today, those edits of him wearing the Kansas City colors look amazing. I think people look at his year last year in Baltimore and say, oh, well, he's washed and that sort of thing. I also don't think they used him right. I don't think they used him enough. I don't think him and the O.C. were on the same page. I also think some people might think, you know, Odell's won a ring. He's probably chasing money. But he takes pride in his game. And, you know, if people are calling him washed, one way to get dried off, so to speak, is to go play for Andy Reid and catch balls from Patrick Mahomes. Okay. And so I don't know that he'd be looking for the same amount of money he'd be looking

for to go play for, I don't know, the Arizona Cardinals. When you're talking about the chiefs, the way that they've made some news is because of that unique contract that Patrick signed, they've been able to convert roster bonuses to signing bonuses. They did it last year. 12 million that they converted and they saved 9 million. Okay. So, you know, talking about what I was just referring to. That's the money they used on Drew Tranquil and Mike Edwards. They don't win the Super Bowl, if not for those guys. They aren't stars, but they're big pieces that had to play big roles in spots when guys were down. And, you know, like these can be the difference between going to the divisional round and the Super Bowl. So, you know, like this year,

they converted 27 mil of his salary and it frees up 21 mil. They were five over the cap. They signed Chris Jones to a five-year, $158 million deal. They franchise Sneed. If they trade Sneed, they save 19 mills. Supposedly they're talking to Indy. You know, they could go after a veteran wide receiver or a left tackle with that money. You know, there's still some tackles out there, Tyron Smith, Donovan Smith, who obviously they know, Dwayne Brown, David Bachtiari, who's been a great player. They have Wanya Morris.

One thing that I think flew under the radar with the Chiefs is the loss of Willie Yeh. Like how do you replace his range? I think he complimented Nick Bolton so well. And when they didn't have him, they did not look the same. So that's one question mark for me with the Chiefs. But, you know, I use the Chiefs as an example of like sometimes you think when you're freeing up all this cap space, it could be for one big signing. But a lot of times you're signing the role players that fill the cracks in your roster.

and can make the difference between winning the whole thing or just being in the playoffs. Maybe they can stick the landing on an OBJ and the role players they need. Get to work, Brett Veach. Talking about the Ravens, man, the obvious big news is Derek Henry signing a two-year deal for 16-mill with nine guaranteed and four in bonuses.

Okay, they flirted with him at the deadline six months ago, if you remember that. Now they don't have to give anything up to get him other than money. They're losing Edwards to the Chargers, Dobbins and Cook, free agents. They do have Mitchell. Keaton Mitchell was great last year. Obviously got hurt late in the season, so you're going to start the season without him. And the way they're talking about him, he'll be back in 24, goes to show how long a road that's going to be. They also have Justice Hills,

who I'm a big fan of, but neither of these guys are like low red threats, short yardage guys, every down backs, in a traditional sense. They probably should carry one more power back. That's a lot of eggs in the basket of Derek Henry. I mean, obviously people are waiting for him to burn out every year. I've been waiting for it. He's turning 30. That's a marker for a normal running back, but is this guy normal? The Ravens don't think so. So far the norms have not applied to him. He has run into 120 plus more eight-man boxes than the next running back of the last three years. That jump to Baltimore is going to be huge because his offensive line is a lot different. A lot better, especially than the group that he plays.

played behind last year. I mean, that had to be the worst group he ever played behind. And so like the norms don't necessarily apply to him. He's a 2,000 carry guy in the pros. Now one thing people don't remember is at Bama, he had one year where he carried a heavy load, but largely he wasn't like the feature back for four years. So like how much, he didn't come into league

as like a hundred thousand mile Ford Ranger. Like this guy had some mileage that you could get out of him. And he's never seen to burn out. He had a foot injury a year ago. But like, last, year, reasonable load by his standards ended up with a thousand yards. And he did that quietly. And he did that in a bad situation. And when he gets in the open field, it never ceases to amaze me. The Ravens game last year, coincidentally, in London. When he got out in the open field, I was like,

holy shit, that's Derek fucking Henry. That's Derek Henry. He's the same guy. So if you're using him less, I think that bodes well for Baltimore this year. I think he's got some gas in the tank. can, you know, he can help him in the screen game. I think, you know, that power element with the speed that they have on the field could put people in a bind. You know, they've only had one 1,000-yard rusher since Lamar started out, and that was Ingram in 2019. So this is unprecedented to have a star like this in the backfield.

They need to use him more than they used OBJ, and I think they will. He may not be going in division like some of these other guys, like Sequan Barkley, but he did beat up on the Ravens in the playoffs, and this has turned into a rivalry. He also has 90 touchdowns, eight seasons. It's going to help them a ton in the red zone for them to be able to punch it in. And they have more leads than anybody. They play with more leads than anybody last year. This is going to help them park the car in the garage, right?

Ravens did lose like five to six players the first 24 hours of free agency, Queen to Pittsburgh, Simpson and Moses to New York, Gino Stone to Cincinnati. Lamar was joking. He's not dead to him. He was fucking around. Edwards, the Chargers, Duvene, and Derby to Jacksonville. lots of running back movement. And I think it really comes down to the running back class not being that great.

The combination of that and the fact that the cap is up, you're going to be like, oh, they're paying running backs more than ever. Well, relatively speaking, not really. The cap's just up. And I think it's a weak draft class, relatively speaking. So you get Aaron Jones with the Vikings, another inner division kind of deal, which Green Bay and Minnesota have swapped players over the years. and some of the more so than other division pairings.

You've seen guys play for both those teams and most famously Brett Farr, but it's not just him. I guess they low-balled him a little bit with a $4 million dollar offer, and he looked really good last year, but there is the injury concern, there's age. They said, no thanks. They go with Josh Jacobs.

I don't know how you replace him catching the ball out of the backfield. We'll see what they do there, but he got six from division rival and took it. And you've got Greg Roman reuniting with Gus Edwards, the Bears at DeAndre Swift and so on. Fields was the Bears leading rushers. So while you have three running backs and you don't know what you're going to do with all of them,

this can't hurt. The two teams we just talked about are AFC elites. That's why I'm leading with them. Houston is a team that I would like to include in that category. Because I think the window's wide open. If you had to ask me today who's the biggest threat to Kansas City in the AFC next year, I might say Houston. I really might say Houston.

Not Baltimore. I might say Houston. And I love what they're doing. They lost Grenard, who I thought had a great year, super underrated, but they upgraded with DeNeil Hunter, who I think is fantastic. They lost Rankin's who I love, but man, do I love DeNico Autry? I'm one of his biggest fans in the media. They lost Singletary, who I love.

Somebody asked me who's underrated in the NFL the other night. He's a perfect example, but they gained a 27-year-old Joe Mixing coming off a thousand-yard season. These are all teams with quarterbacks. Another team with the quarterback is the Buffalo Bills, but their window is closing. You know, they're going to have to nail it in the draft. They lost six starters. Mitch Morris, they lost Davis, they lost Floyd, they lost Poir, they lost White, they lost Dane Jackson, and they're really going to have to nail the draft picks.

I think Poir is a huge loss for them with what they ask of their safeties. And Morse is a tough one as well because of the fact that he's been the guy who Josh Allen's been, he's had his hands under his balls for a number of years. And that's a good point because two of those, losses directly affect Josh Allen. Mitch and Gabe Davis. Exactly. And Gabe Davis is a big one, although he couldn't really turn the corner. They got to find a viable number two there. And so like the Floyd deal is tough because now,

you know, who's your guy outside? You know, Vaughn Miller wasn't that, that great last year. And, you know, they bring back Epinessa, but like who's your home run hitter? I don't know. Every team we just talked about has a quarterback. I want to get on the teams that don't. Chicago is obviously one that has made the most news, but like we laid every scenario out this fall. One scenario we laid out was keeping Fields and drafting a quarterback, and also the scenario where you could keep Fields, draft a quarterback, and trade him mid-season.

Because you're always going to get more in that situation. I think Kyle brought that up this week and made some waves. Actually, first take picked it up, and Stephen A. Smith gave us our flowers for having joined us in Austin and enjoyed the show. Kevin Stephen A on, you know, I know some people don't like Stephen A, but I think watching him deliver a monologue is like watching Barry Bonds hit a baseball. Okay, like in Pittsburgh or big head Barry Bonds or small head Barry Bonds. It doesn't matter me. I think Stephen A's

that awesome. But the whole point is Kyle brought this up where he's like, listen, you're not getting what you thought you'd get. So draft a quarterback, if that's what you want to do and keep fields and see what happens. And you know, seeing his trade value right now, I can't argue with that. It can only go up in season. It can only go up. I described it as Y plus five. He's a math guy. But I couldn't help noticing something this week. It just as an aside, you know, like Justin Fields didn't come in a league with anything. He came in a league with a big contract and big expectations, but they failed him organizationally in the first couple years of his career. Even last year, the cover's a little more

bare than you think it is. You know, 33rd team put out. a graphic and it said this is what Caleb Williams might be working with next year. It's quarterback Caleb Williams, running back DeAndre Swift, Herbert, Johnson, wide receiver, DJ Moore, wide receiver adunzee if they draft somebody like Roma Dunzee from Washington. Tighten-end Cole Commet, that is a fucking squad right there, dude. If you know, if you nail the wide receiver pick, you could have a really nice situation for a rookie quarterback to come in to come into. And I just say that to bring up the point that like we'll never know how Justin Fields would have done in a situation like that.

It's too late. We're too far down the road. But that is a huge juxtaposition relative to what he had to work with. And so I am a buyer in the Justin Field stock. If you want to take a shot and you want to make a move where the ceiling's a little higher, the risk is high. But so is the reward. I think Justin Fields has got good football ahead of him. Atlanta's one of the places we thought he might end up, but Kirk Cousin wins again, dude. This guy is a business All-American, but I want to show him some respect because I think a lot of people have like memeified

this guy over the years. Like just kind of goofy, you know, poorly dressed depending on the way you think about it. I think he dresses great. My closet probably looks a lot like his. Hasn't won a lot of big games, but there's a lot of quarterbacks who haven't, man. And, you know, we've called Lamar Jackson's playoff record

into question. But Kirk Cousins is an easy target, right? And I think people sometimes will forego really looking at his body of work and watching him play football to join into the narrative. I think if you're a team in quarterback purgatory and you can't draft and you've got to go hit the free agency market, this is about as good an outcome as you could have. This is a franchise quarterback. Now, he's coming off in Achilles.

I worry about them, you know, his mobility and maybe what he looks like coming off that injury. But he gives him a chance to win. I think they can win that division with him. They've got weapons outside. And they can move the pocket. They really can. And adding Mooney there is great. We always bring up the Brandon Staley last dance rant about, you know, we need

Pippin. We need Jordan. We need our wide receiving court to look like the Bulls. And that sounded good. But he forgot Steve Curry. He forgot all the little guys and the man beaters. And I think Mooney is a different body type from the guys they have. So when you're in a man-beater situation, you want to pull.

put somebody in a bunch or a stack. He's the type of guy that you want to have. And I think also Kirk Cousins, and this isn't lost on me, the division he plays in, Dennis Allen, you know, Todd Bowles, like they're going to dial it up and they're going to bring the blitz. Like, you want a veteran quarterback in that situation. And he's seeing everything there is to see. So I'm not saying he's a world beater, but you've got to show this guy some respect. And I think you're going to have to show the Falcons some respect this year. And the Desmond Ritter era is officially over, traded today for Ron Dealmore. Rare player for player trade, but he's got a lot of weapons at his disposal there in Atlanta, including Bejohn Robinson, I think is fantastic. Okay, so the Steelers,

they had Russell Wilson. I don't want to read too much into what they want to do with Russell Wilson. I think if Russell Wilson's there for a million dollars and you think he can be a quality piece to compete with Kenny Pickett or that sort of thing, I don't think you necessarily giving up on Kenny Pickett, but I think there should be a competition there. And I also think it might say something about the fields thing. Like the speed with Pittsburgh moved to get Russell signed up was maybe an indication that the asking price was too high on fields or that polls is staying with them. And, you know, I think we think because the media says certain things or the sources or like oftentimes ahead of the draft, you don't believe what you hear. You actually believe the opposite because people control

information and they disseminate it in a way that's going to be beneficial to them. So I, you know, we'll see what the field situation shakes out as. But in Pittsburgh, I loved seeing the memes of Russell Wilson joining the Steelers. My favorite one was Zoolander, Ben Stiller, prancing through the coal mine. And they said this was Russell Wilson's first day at the office in Pittsburgh. I thought it was hilarious. George Pickens is either going to have 1,500 yards and 10 touchdowns, or he's going to be standing next to Russ's locker like he stood in front of the TV on draft night.

That's going to be an interesting relationship. There's no middle. Yeah. Now here, I have a theory real quick just to hit you on before we stop talking about Russ. Here's, and this is, I'm kind of being serious here. Okay, Dallas is up Shits Creek because we know they kind of, Dax got him by the balls. And they're trying to, they're trying to figure out a way that they can pay him and, you know, like have some flexibility. There's no flexibility. The guy has a no trade clause. That's what kills you, right? Because you would have traded him by now, probably. I mean, depending on how you think Jerry feels about this, because, you know, he kept McCarthy. There has to be some admission in that action that he's saying it's not

McCarthy. It might be the quarterback. Do you remember how DAC acted when Trey Lance showed up? Like it was like Joe Montana got signed, right? Can you imagine if the Cowboys, if I were the Cowboys and I want to get rid of Dak, I'm kind of being serious here. I would have signed Russell Wilson for a million dollars. Can you imagine what that really might have worked? Dak would have said, fuck this shit. I'm out, dude. issues. Yeah, I mean, so they missed that opportunity. I'm not, listen, I know some people are going to say it's ridiculous, but if you want to DAC gone, you could make DAC want to be gone. Darnold in Minnesota, I'm really excited about this. I said this after the Ravens game.

I liken it to the Baker Mayfield situation where Baker's kind of disgraced, and obviously Darnold didn't have the heights that Baker had in Cleveland. Baker won a fucking playoff game in Cleveland. You know how I feel about Baker, but it was McVeigh giving him an opportunity at the end of the season to get some snaps, that's a huge cosign to have a guy like that be like, yeah, he's good enough to play for my team and I want to see what he's got. Same thing with Shanahan. You spend a year with Shanahan. If you're a sponge, that's going to make you better. Not only that, but you see how they operate. And you learn things. And, you know, he got some snaps in that Ravens game. I said this last year. When Darnold and the Niners hosted the Bengals last year, I think Brock Purdy was banged up.

And if Donald had started that game, I might have felt like they had the same chance to win. I just, I believe in him for some reason. Because I really think the guy's got something to him. You tell me who's played well in New York for the Jets with Adam Gays. You tell me who's played well in Carolina. Okay. I'm sorry, but not everybody's, not everybody's C.J. Stroud. There's something between C.J. Stroud and Josh Rosen.

And a lot of the times we discount the context with which somebody comes in a league. This guy, Darnold's had it tough. Now, I know nobody's going to feel bad for a rich young kid that got everything handed to. to him in their eyes, but like, I think he can play, and I love Kevin O'Connell, and I know the deal that they signed doesn't mean there's not going to be another quarterback on the roster, but I'd love to see him get another opportunity, man. So I'm looking forward to that. Also, as we get to talking about the NFC East, I think the Giants are going to make a move for a quarterback in the draft, and I think it could be Drake May. That's just my two cents. Okay. Looking at the

NFC East, the Eagles stole the show, right? We talked about Brian Burns earlier. that's exciting you know him and tibodeau and dexter lawrence and all that stuff like that's exciting it also is a sidebar is a reminder at how incompetent the carolina panthers have been like if you if you compare i was on dominie foxworth show the other day dom's the best i love that guy um his co-host brought up you know side by side everything that they've gotten over the last couple years and everything they've traded away it is insane and i said this when la tried to send over multiple ones for Brian Burns. Number one, L.A. should be thanking their lucky stars

that that trade wasn't accepted because I think that would have hurt him. But also, Carolina had to be the biggest bunch of dummies for not pulling the trigger on that trade, and now they send them up to New York for two and a five. Multiple ones, a couple years later, two and a five. Where did Carolina go over the last couple of years? Did he help you guys?

They are not an organization that I would be excited about playing for. Okay. The Eagles are taking shots, man. And that's what they do. That's what Howie Roseman does. He's always going to try to do something outside the box, whether it's drafting Jalen Hertz or going the other way on his investment in a linebacker or in this case going the other way on investing in a running back.

Because that's something he hasn't done in Philly. Like we won the Super Bowl with guys that weren't making a lot of money. They've stuck with that kind of model. I think that's more of a football in general model. But right now, I think from a football standpoint, bringing him in will help the Eagles because I don't know how the O line's going to be next year. I know how Elaine Johnson is going to be. I know how my lot is going to be.

I don't know where Juergens is going to end up. I don't know how certain guys are going to play inside with Kelsey going on. That's a big deal, dude. They might be a very good unit, but that was a different kind of unit they've had the past couple of years. So what do you do? You say, well, we need a guy that can break some tackles. I need a guy we can get the ball out of the backfield, too.

And I think he's going to help. and I think for him, people's talents get wasted all the time in the NFL. We just talked about Sam Darnal. I'm not saying Sam Darnal is Seekwan Barkley. The first time I ever saw Seekoine Barkley play, I felt like I was in an EA sports commercial. I ended up on the wrong side of a screen. It was his rookie year. I'm chasing him.

I have no idea where the right angle is to chase this guy. I've never seen a guy drop so many people in the open field as he did. I was watching all my teammates end up on a highlight video, like in real time, right in front of me. And I remember thinking to myself like, this guy is special with a capital S. And for a running back, that clock ticks a little bit faster. And so I hate watching a guy rot away in a place like New York. And, you know, as for Tiki's comments, which, like, I don't want to take him out of context.

I don't think he was saying like, hey, fuck you, Sequin. I think he was like, ah, you're dead to me, bro. Like, he was kind of being dismissive. But for a guy that used to play his position, I'm a Tiki fan, he's a Virginia guy. He's a buddy of mine, all that stuff. Like, you know the business man. You wouldn't be in this situation, New York, if you just paid the guy. You could afford this deal.

You didn't do it. And as a reminder of fans in Philly, you've done this too. Okay, when Jason Peters, who was not as good as Sequin Barclay when he just walked out of the building and drove down to Philly to sign his new deal, went to play for Dallas because he didn't have any other options. People were like, he's dead to me. I thought that was bullshit. And I think it's bullshit because you've already proved that that that's not how you feel because Deshaun Jackson, for instance. and went to play for the then Redskins, and he was just welcomed home to retire, basically, by Eagles fans.

So I never understand this thing. It's a business both ways, and I think Howie's always going to deviate a little bit from what you think the norm is. I wish he had deviated and paid Frankie Louvo from Carolina. I think they really could use linebacker help this year. Maybe they're going to attack in the draft. I also think the commanders, by the way,

have done as good a job low-key as anybody, Jeremy Chin, Dorrance Armstrong, who they'll probably use like a Michael Bennett. That's Dan Quinn's thing. He wants a guy that can swing inside and outside. That's the reason I didn't sign with the Falcons because he was like, I want you to be my Michael Bennett. And I was like, that sounds like a great compliment, but no thank you.

So I went up to New England to play three technique. Ertz, Wagner, great vets, guys that know how to win. Even Cleland Farrell, who just got to be a part of a Super Bowl team. So I think the commanders are doing a good job. Back to the Eagles, the Huff move really caught my eye. I landed from Austin, and there were two headlines. It was Sequin and Huff. And I was just excited about Huff because I've watched Huff all year and talked about him a lot on this podcast.

I don't know if anybody talks about Bryce Huff more than we do. They're paying him 1520. You know, that's the only thing that I'm not sure about for a guy that played 28% run snaps last year. Like, how would you feel if they'd have paid me $10 million? You know, because it's kind of the same role. Now, I'm not saying I'm Bryce Huff, but he's a hell of a rusher. He's one of my favorite rushers in the league, super underrated. He's just constant action, constant movement.

You know, I think maybe that Zach Bond signing tells you that they want to use him like, you know, versatile guy who can play on ball, off ball, Van Ginkle kind of guy, right? Maybe you can split the snaps first and second and third down between those guys. But the question remains, what are they going to do with sweat and redic? And I'd keep sweat. I really would. I mean, he's cheaper. He's better in the run game.

The last thing is CJ Gardner Johnson. When I was doing Gio's podcast the other day, my main man Giovanni, you got to check his podcast out if you can. I've seen this guy grow up in the industry. It's so fun to watch him kind of like he's a serious media member now. He's almost graduated high school. Anyways, Philly fans, no Gio. This C.J. G.J. News hadn't dropped yet. And he asked me who they should be targeting.

And I said, I would address the secondary first. I would address secondary first because that snowball effect last year started with the nickel position. And I also think that group was missing dogs. And I mean like dogs, like guys that make you want to play a little nastier, guys that are shit disturbers. My favorite thing about CJ Gardner Johnson is who led the league in getting people to snatch his chain a couple years ago. Like that's what he's about. He's an antagonist. He plays tough.

He's rangy. He's physical. I just like his game, man. And, you know, he said a year ago, Philly fans suck. I hate Philadelphia. Well, he went and got the bag in Detroit, saw how the other half's living.

I'm not saying he didn't like Detroit, but now he gets the bag again with the Eagles. So good for the Eagles, good for CJ Gardner Johnson. And one more thing I have to say about the Eagles, because we haven't talked since Fletcher Cox retired. I'm going to close the open with this, and then we'll get into Lance Armstrong.

I know it's a long pod, but break it up in half. Fletcher Cox, I owe him a lot, man. He's not only one of my best, buddies I played with, but he was one of my best friends on the field. And I think it's a testament to him, because here I am this veteran who has no clout in this building, despite what I've done in a league. Like, you've got to start over. And when you come into a locker room, it's pretty apparent in a D-line room who the alpha is, like immediately. And Fletch is the alpha, and I'm holding my breath, wondering what kind of guy he is, and I'm wondering how it's going to work for me and the

whole thing. And what I realized immediately is that this guy was going to be one of my best buddies. And I just love the way he is. I love the way he works. He's a fucking throwback. Like he could have played in the 90s, man. But he was also a great rusher. And he did things the right way, man. He was a team player.

And I tweeted this when he retired, and I mean it. And it's about as good a compliment as I can give somebody, is you made everybody better around you. And, you know, Fletch, you probably don't. I'm not going to hear this. But I love Fletch, man. And when I showed up in Philly, like I said, I was nervous. when I took the field next to him,

I always say it's nice to have an end opposite you, but having a tackle right inside that you can play off of, especially if he's unselfish, he runs games with you, he lets people be benefactors around him. Bo Allen's the biggest hater in the world. Like, he'll find a reason to hate on anybody, dude. And I mean that endearingly. He loves Fletch.

And that was the guy that it would be easy to be like, man, I'm tired of hearing about Fletch. Like, I don't get enough snaps, this, and third. When Fletch retired over the weekend and we were together, we echoed the same sentiments. It was a team player, a rare throwback type of guy, and somebody I enjoy going to work with, man. We used to listen to death row by Chris Stapleton before every game. We'd sit in the corner and listen to death row. And, you know, I missed moments like that when I walked away from the game. And it wasn't the game necessarily, but it was the bond. It was the bond of going out on that field,

through the tunnel with somebody and saying, like, I got your back today, and I'm going to go to the wall for you. And I felt that way every time I walked on the field with Fletch. I mean, he just has that effect. So I love Fletch, Hall of Famer in my book, one of the great all-time Eagles could have fit in on that line with Jerome Brown and Clyde Simmons and Reggie White and Mike Golick, he's a throwback. And the thing I'll leave you with is this. When we went out before the parade to grab jerseys, I went to Mitchell and Ness, got a bunch of jerseys, a bunch of Eagles, greats, the whole thing. I had a bag full of them dropping in the locker room and everybody's digging through them. Like, I want this one.

I want that one. There was one that I did not put in the bag and I just, I put it in my locker and I was going to give it to Flesh. And that's the Reggie White jersey. And wasn't anybody else going to wear a Reggie White jersey. That's just how dominant he was. He was worthy of wearing a jersey like that at a Super Bowl parade. And I love the guy, man. So I'm sure he's going to be in a tree stand here shortly.

He's going to be on his ranch. I don't know what the next chapter is for him, but happy trails dude. Love Fletch. All right. So without further ado, here's Lance Armstrong. Again, if you didn't hear what I said earlier, go back and listen to it because I'm qualifying the interview so that you don't bitch and complain in the comments. Enjoy talking to him. Here's Lance Armstrong.

Hey, y'all. Greenlight has official merch like this hat right here, like the one on my head, this dad hat. I love this hat. I'm not even a dad hat guy, but this thing fits. great this this hat right here fits great we've got hoodies we've got tea by the way this hoodie's like super comfy I mean it's like soft plush it's not the type of hoodie that's gonna get stiff with one wash and the shirts too because like I'm a big comfort guy okay you got like this white shirt here you got the shirt with the

logo the Abbey Road looking logo with Dr. Fax smoking presumably a blunt Kyle carrying Cowboy Reed, making driveling a basketball, which I've never seen him actually do, and me carrying a football. And then you've got the black shirt here too with the logo. So stickers, hit the link in the description in the video, below the video, actually, and make sure to tag us on social media showing off your green light merch. It's quality, quality threads here, okay? Wouldn't do it any other way. All right, we are here in Austin, and when you look at a list of people that live in

Austin when you come to south by southwest your name's up on top of the list man you're like kind of mr austin uh i've been here along it's interesting i've been here long i've been here long i moved here in 1989 yeah i got out of high school and um but then we moved away and we uh and we just moved back so it's we took a little break we took a break when everybody else moved to austin yeah um but yeah when i moved down here in and 89 it's funny i were we're sitting Like my very first flat, I mean, we could all walk there in probably three minutes. Yeah. rented this little place.

I paid 300 bucks a month. Yeah. There was a government here, the state capital, and then there was the university. Yeah. That was it. There was nothing. Michael Dell was just dropping out of college and creating an empire, but there was not, wasn't like it is today.

We didn't have traffic. You could ride your bike. I worry about getting run over. Yeah. But it's been good. It's, look, people complain about the, any, most people complain about growth if they live in a place that they love. But there's a simple answer and that's just basically moved to a shithole and then nobody will move there. I drove in, I didn't see any draw bridges.

Right. So people want to come. Back in the 80s, is this like a cowboy town? Easy place to get your ass kicked at a bar? No, it was a college town. Yeah. It's always been, I mean, this has been the liberal. bastion of Texas, and to some degree still is, although that has changed with the influx,

but now this has been a super progressive. It's also been, as they've built at the live music capital of the world, going back to late 80s, early 90s, you could see anybody. I mean, the clubs that we had were, many of which are not around anymore, just because of the growth. But you could roll up and stumble across Stevie Ray Vaughn, or, you could. Did you? I did not, but you could.

I mean, if you walked into... A big Stevie fan. Yeah, if you walked into Antones on any given night, you might just be there sitting in or just playing a gig. Like, it was pretty epic. So you got the podcast going. Yep. And this is probably a good place to have a podcast, yeah.

I mean, a lot of the guys in the industry, comedians and stuff down here. Yep. It's called The Move. Well, there's two. There's the forward, which was the original one that I did. I started. that had nothing to do with cycling.

In fact, that was the intention. And so that one, I started here in Austin, and yeah, you could pick up people, but just because Austin was, you know, people were coming through. That show, I've faded a little on that show just because of moving to Aspen for five years. You don't get the cadence of interesting people coming through, although there's a lot of interesting people.

And then COVID, like COVID-Screw. I don't love doing interviews. on Zoom, although I've done some. And then years into that show, we launched the cycling show called The Move, which was really on a whim, just to kind of just to basically

fuck around. And that shows ended up being a hit and being much bigger than the original show of the forward. So back me up to when you started the forward. Why? Like, why start talking? You know,

my manager at the time, just said, podcasts were starting to become a thing. That was early days of really just anybody being able to create content, thank God. Right. And before we started, we talked a little bit about TV. You know, if you've led the life that I've led, and you let it 30 years ago, and you cannot create your own content and publish your own content and distribute your own content, you're screwed. Right.

Right. You're sitting around waiting for somebody to call you to give you a platform. So, you know, going back eight or nine years, Mark said, just start a podcast. Right. Anybody can do it. And I was like, all right. So that's really how that's start. That's what I heard too. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. That's, no, that's the truth. That has the added benefit of being true. Yeah. And it's, look, I tell people all the time, like, thank God. Right. We live in, I mean, we can look at all the fucked up reasons. and unfortunate things out there in 2024,

but you can also have, at the same time, you have to look at the good stuff. So it's been good for me, for sure. What surprised you about sitting down and talking to people? Because I feel like you've gotten good at sitting in this chair, you know, where you've had to feel some tough questions and you've had to hit some tough topics, but you're the one holding the microphone.

Anything surprised you about being in the other chair? I was never a big homework guy. Right. And he finally went to high school or got out of high school. But yeah, I never studied. I study more now for a show than I've ever studied my entire life. Likewise. Yeah.

And so it's, and some days, you know what it's like. I mean, some days it flows. Some days, you know, you have somebody that you're super interested to talk to. other days you're like yep take it or leave it right and so um it's uh but at the same to i always get and we chatted on this earlier like i always get a little nervous for i don't want to screw it up and i i certainly don't want to ask somebody to come on the show and uh number one not be prepared right and number two uh just not do a good job i don't want to waste their time we talked about being nervous you know i was nervous on two three days notice to get a big interview like

this because like you said like the homework part of it there's a whole world of cycling that I am not aware of and watching interviews with you yeah exactly I was like this could be fun for you because I don't know shit about what you did for the most part of me and watch the documentaries um obviously some of them center on you know more negative topics but um you know I said this to you when you walked in I was like you know some people think it's a bad idea to have Lance Armstrong on the podcast yeah how does that make you feel I mean, I don't, I think that's okay. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't, it's, look, I've lived a crazy life, and I still live a crazy life. Yeah. I travel the world, and I've managed to reinvent myself and support my family, which is the most important thing. And I tell people, and I mean it. I don't really give a shit because I woke up as me today. Right. And no part of me woke up today and was like, damn, you got to be you again? Yeah.

Or no part of me last night went to bed like, dude, can you just wake up as somebody else? I like waking up as me. So part of that is just a comfort with the journey that I've led, a comfort in my own skin. And also a piece that I'm just not for everybody. Like I'm a polarizing guy. Maybe that's shifting over the years. It doesn't really matter, but I'm not going to sit around and get mad at somebody for, you know, I mean, I don't know how many mean tweets you're going to get over this. It's going to have zero effect on.

Yeah, that's fine. But my job is not to sit. You know, like when we talked, I was like, my job is not to cross-examine you. Everybody's heard everything. Right. But I think there are people. Yeah. Yeah.

From you. And, you know, like, I've heard it because I've gone back and I've been like, what did Lance say about this? You know, like, when somebody asked him this question, did he? take, you know, accountability? Was it, was it a good answer? And I have found the answers that I feel like I've needed to hear to know where your head's at. But I think it's hard for people because they don't get it all in one place. And so maybe they didn't hear you address this topic or that topic. I think for me, cards on the table as an athlete, and I said this to you, the doping in Peloton never moved me.

And I think maybe because I understand the context of how it was being done. You know, it's like as an NFL player, if somebody's quote unquote cheating, it pisses me off because it's not prevalent. I mean, it is prevalent, but it's in the shadows. You know, it didn't seem as mainstream as what was going on in cycling. So that part of your life, I don't hold that over your head, not that I have the authority to do that 15 years later. It's just not in me.

And I think part of it maybe comes from the fact that I wasn't a huge cycling fan. Do you feel that dichotomy, you know, where there's people like me who don't know the sport as well, and we seem to digest your transgressions or whatever you want to call them differently than people that were so passionate about the sport? Do you feel that difference? Look, I mean, on the football thing, whether. or not. I mean, look, I love football. I love watching football, I should say. Yeah, I think people want to hear about that, too. Yeah, I feel like it's tough. I grew up in Dallas, so it's been tough being a Cowboys fan. Everything, it's all cyclical, bro. It's been... You had a good childhood.

It's been one of the Super Bowl since 1996, so whenever that cycle decides to roll around, that'd be great. We can all do the math on that. Right. It's been a long time. But if, you know, some mysterious doctor showed up in the game of football and gave all the players a 10% advantage with something that was undetectable, I can promise you what the league would do. I can promise you what the teams would do, and I can promise you what the players would do. And unfortunately, that's not good, right? And unfortunately, that's what happened to us. And so it's hard to judge that unless you were there.

It's hard to, if you weren't in the battle, it's hard to know. and know what you would do. Yeah, I mean, and what your options were, right? I was a kid that got out of high school, and like I told you, moved down here, and then went basically straight to Europe. So I wasn't coming home, right? I looked around, I was like, fuck this, I'm going to stay and fight. Right.

And so. And the money was good. The money got good over time, for sure. Well, the thing that struck me about, is like trying to put the decisions you made in context is like you know I grew up with money my dad he he was he was you you know where uh dad wasn't around uh did not have a lot of money you know would pass his dad on the way to school uh sleeping in a car and you know i try to put myself in your shoes coming from that place and looking at six figures and saying i know the way my dad is

you know he counts every dollar you know he still thinks he's going broke yeah that's a healthy way to approach it and and and i think some of the most successful people do and he was different he was different in the 80s because he was desperate yeah and um not to say he was in the same situation but i think uh i think it helps me understand why you might make decisions that now in retrospect seem to some people selfish or like cheating, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of ways to describe it or look at it. But look, it's, it happened.

Yeah. And it took its toll on many of us. Not so much physically. I mean, that's the irony in all this. If you look at thousands of test samples or subjects and over many, many years. physically everybody's in one piece. Psychologically, not everybody is, right? I mean, all of my main rivals,

the ones that we all drove each other, you know, couldn't handle the downfall. And so that part dares me up. But at the same time, I look at my life, and yeah, I had the biggest downfall. But I wasn't going to, I wasn't going to give up. And I wasn't going to give up on myself. And I certainly wasn't going to give up on my family.

And I was going to hang in there, man. Just keep and just keep trying. Interesting story that you told that I thought was really telling was the story about when you pass that bar and those people are outside in their motherfucking you. It's the only time that's ever happened, but it's a good story. Well, isn't that always, it's interesting because one of the questions I was going to ask you, and maybe we'll get there in a second, but was like, was like, you've got a lot of detractors.

Do these conversations play out in person or usually hypothetically in your head when you walk into a room and you're thinking, like part of you, I know you say you don't give a fuck, but part of you's got to wonder when you walk into a room, is that guy on my side or against me? No, I don't. You don't? I do not think that way. Really? It's been a long time. Yeah. I have plenty of people on my side.

Yeah. I've managed to rebuild my life. And that's not a brag, by the way. It's not a flex. That's only that it did happen that one time in Denver, which was like totally surreal. Yeah. Have there been times where I'm like, I feel like that group over there wants to motherfucker me? Right.

But they're not. Yeah. Sure. But that's all right. I mean, I, it doesn't. It doesn't bother me. And I think a lot of that comes just from this. understanding and almost empathy in a way on my side of just understanding. I'm not a fool. I understand.

You understand the feelings. I understand. I understand. What are the feelings? The feelings are hurt, betrayal, all of these things that fans would have had. I understand that. If I didn't understand that, then that would bother me. Right. If somebody, look, we're in the business, I mean, I spend most of my time investing other people's money. Right. Right. In order to do that, you have to go through literally thousands of similar processes of pitching your fund, asking for support, telling your story. And a lot of people say yes. And a lot of people say no. And a lot of people say no for the very reason that you're Lance Armstrong. Yeah. And that's okay. Yep. I say, I get it. Yeah. I'm going to go to the next person now.

Right. And they might say the same thing. And I get that too. Then I'm going to go to the next person. It's just about, you just, that would be a complete waste of my time to dwell on that or to get sad about that. I don't, that's fine. I told you a second ago, like Lance Armstrong is not for everybody. Right.

And that's probably freeing when you come to that conclusion personally. And you say, you know, the best thing I can do because I've done things I regret. Yeah. and I dwell on them, you know, and obviously they're not things that are broadcasted to the world like yours. And I can ruminate on them. But eventually you've got a choice where it's like nobody, like, that's not changing anybody else's day. So why would I give my happiness to this problem? Yeah.

I mean, it would be a problem if I came home and my kids acted like that if they started motherfucking me. That's who matter. Yeah, that's what matters. Although they might some days, but that would be a problem. It would be a problem. The other thing about this, Chris, is I sort of, quote, unquote, lost half of my friends through all of that. Yes. Which is a terrible feeling.

That's probably the worst part. Yeah, you're like, whoa, I thought you guys are all allies and friends and supporters. And now you're gone, which that sucked. You can't deny that. That was a long time ago. It sucked at the time. But then you look around the room and half the room. and half the room is still there.

Right. So then you're like, ah, okay, so this is my team. And all right, thank you. And we're going to rebuild this thing together in whatever form or fashion that is. Now, it would suck if all of a sudden half of that half room left, but that there's something super strong

and empowering and healthy about knowing just to rode it out with you. And so, yeah, you lean into that stuff. And, you know, it's totally cool, totally cool with an understanding of people's disappointment. It's okay. Now, the people that I'm sure it hurt a little bit more to lose in that room were people that maybe you felt like you drove away. You know, I mean, I could see somebody saying, hey, well, Lance, the doping is one thing, but how it was handled after. And I've heard you talk about those.

You know, you referred to yourself as a bully. You said, hey, I'm not proud of that. guy. Yeah, of course. You know, like obviously there's some acknowledgement of a separation between that person and the guy sitting here today. Like anybody, 12, 15 years later, we all change. And that motherfucker. And on top of that, being a pro athlete and then not a pro athlete, which for me, when I was a pro athlete, I was different. Yeah, you would have run through a brick wall. Yeah, and I would have protected myself. You were paid to be that guy, paid to be competitive, as was I. But if you're not aware enough to know that there is a time for that and a time not for that,

and you don't have an on-off switch, that's what happens. And look, I fully, look, I think by and large, if people, if most, the people that don't understand that this was fully pervasive have not been reading. Right. So let's just work off the assumption that everybody's cool with that. Yes. You then get into the behavior part, the attitude, the denials, the vehement denials, that bothers people. And so that's a lifetime worth of work for me to live with other people.

And that's, again, that is okay. So, and it's, look, I didn't just ride my bike for 11 years and do all the things I just told you I did and not think about this. Yeah. I mean, I've also had a super fucked up life. And a lot of people have had, you know, way harder lives than me. But, you know, our life wasn't easy. So, you know, I haven't just sat around. I've gone and done deeper work to understand how these things have been put together.

And also figure out a way just to manage the trauma of the last 11 years. I mean, you cannot have lived that life and not have trauma. So I love that shit. I mean, I'm totally cool to try whatever and do whatever and talk about whatever. Well, you said you don't give up. And, you know, I think part of it is like not giving up on your own journey, whatever that is. And I think there's a lot of people that say, well, redemption,

that's a word I don't like using with Lance because that would imply that there's an opportunity to be a hero in a big way again. Yeah, that's not going to happen. And that's not going to happen. And I think that's fucking okay. I'm totally okay with that. You know, as a vice. By the way, I didn't really like the life of a hero.

Yeah, okay. I worked for a bunch of other people. Yeah. I was told what to say. I was told where to go. Guess what? I say whatever I want now. Yeah.

I go wherever I want. Yeah. I do whatever I want. Yeah. By the way, I'm not trading. Yeah. If you gave me Paris 2005, I would not trade. Yeah.

Sitting here today in Austin, Texas, during South by with you, there's no fucking way. I trade. Zero chance. And there's no way to trade it. Well, there obviously there's no way to trade it. I don't know if some genie came in and said, dude, you want to go back to that? And nobody knows anything and you're the most powerful athlete in the world. But hey, you got to bullshit a lot and you got to lie and you got to deny.

I wouldn't trade it at all. No way. Well, I mean, you get into the lie and I feel like anytime I've told a lie, you get into self-protective mode where it's like whether people know what's been going on under the service or not for a long time, you've been swimming really fast under the surface but above water you're you're calm and then the whole thing gets blown up yeah i don't do you go into that self-protective moment i wasn't that torn up about that part yeah i mean it was i mean we all everybody had to try to keep that secret yeah which was ultimately going to be impossible to do

talking about that night at the bar and this is the last thing i want to talk about on on this stuff because there's so much interesting and really good about what you've done. And, you know, that story outside the bar struck me because of really two or three reasons. One of the reasons was, all right, so for people listening, Lance goes by a bar and forgive me if I'm butchering this, but people are motherfucking you outside. Like 15 of them. Yeah, and they're like, fuck Lance. It was like a chorus. Yeah.

And you get home and you call the bar and you say, hey, here's my credit card. I want you to buy their drink. want you to cover their tab. Was it a big tab, by the way? I don't know. You didn't even look. It doesn't even matter. Well, what that story says to me, Lance, is that, like, number one, there's some

acknowledgement there, which, obviously, watching your interviews, you've acknowledged a lot. But then, too, that you do care on some level what people think. I think that's natural. Yeah. I actually think there's some of that. I think. So just to get granular, I was waiting on an Uber. Okay.

To go, we were doing a show. Awkward wait. Yeah, I was like, so I was waiting. I was like, where's this fucking Uber? Fuck, Lance. And the guys, you know, one guy's like, hey, Lance. And I was like, oh, this guy wants to say, what's up? I'm like, hey, what's up?

And he goes, fuck you. I was like, whoa. All right. Still waiting on the Uber. and then all his buddies got up and it was girls and guys so they were like chanting I'm like

oh my God like I was enraged and this is I'm getting to to me really the moral of this story I wanted to and I would have it would have been a bad scene because I was obviously outnumbered

and I was with Liz who's photographed me forever and she knows me better than anybody and she's like finally the Uber pulls up And she's like, get in the car. Because she sees me. I'm like, I'm going to go over here.

Let's go. Like, I don't, I'm going to get destroyed, but I'm going to try. Yeah. And I got in the car and I was so mad. And I was mad because we just, we're just, and everything was in slow motion too. You're like driving away. I'm like, dude, you didn't do anything. Right.

You didn't take any action. Right. I mean, I like to think that I take action. Yeah. I'm like, you didn't. and I'm sitting there just fucking stewing. I'm like, I have to take action. So what's action?

Turn around. Go find five other guys and turn around and see what happens? No. I mean, what's action? I'm like, I got action for you. That's when I called the bar. That was me taking action. Yeah.

And I told the manager, the guy, the manager was great about it. He's like, dude, are you sure? And I'm like, yeah, I'm totally sure. I said, but. You tell them it's on me, and then I understand. Right. And that, to me, was taking action. Yeah, it was, that was, that was like top three surreal moments of my life.

That's insane. I mean, and it doesn't usually happen in person, which is what it would. So it was in Denver. We were in, we were in Rhino. It's a little, it's kind of the hip part of Denver. And it word spread so fast. Like, I didn't tell anybody. I mean, it was in the 30 for 30, just.

they found out, but we were in an Airbnb very similar to this and doing podcasts. And my guys, just like you have your guys right here, walked out the next morning to this coffee truck. And the guy in the coffee truck saw them walk out of the Airbnb. And he said, are you guys with Lance? And they're, you know, those my guys, they're like, yeah. And they're like, the coffee. guys like he's like one of these hipsters and he's like is that true he did what he did yesterday

and they're like yeah and the coffee guy this you know this total hipsters like that's the coolest fucking thing i've ever heard and so like it just it just spread like so anyways it it um yeah hasn't happened since and it might happen again probably do the same thing so it's not your responsibility humanize yourself but you do make efforts, even if you don't want to act like you're making an effort. I feel like you make more of an effort than you lead on. I mean, I just, I mean, I make it up as I go along.

Right. I'm not saying it's phony, but what I'm saying, there is an effort to humanize yourself a little bit. You're doing a podcast. You're out there, you're talking. Yeah, well, I'm not, I'm ambitious. Yeah. Yeah.

So I had to be ambitious. Right. Right. I wouldn't have gotten, I wouldn't be sitting here. in the position that I'm in today if I wasn't ambitious. So, look, all of my, I touched on my peers that have been wildly, negatively affected by their own downfalls, those are the same guys I raced that I beat. Because I was more ambitious.

It's the same gene. Yeah. Right? I won, I beat them, and I trained harder than them and was better than them because I was more ambitious. They would admit that, the ones who are still alive, many of which are not alive. And so it's the same gene, you know, whether you're just trying to put food on the table for your family, which is my number one goal, because there were many days where I'm like,

I don't know how I'm going to feed five kids. Right. I don't know how I'm going to keep a roof over their head. I got to figure this shit out. That's ambition. And I think, I don't know. I would support anybody in doing that. Has it been tough?

I've talked to my dad about this. like you alluded to having a fucked up life earlier and I'm pretty sure you're alluding to some of things early on and then you know obviously the last 10 15 years been tough but um without a roadmap being a dad I mean you had a step stepfather who I mean that's pretty well covered but without that real blueprint you've got four or five kids of your own now five five kids yeah but it's but sometimes yes all of that is true and there was not like I see you my relationship with my children today. And I think dads are different with sons than they are with daughters and moms are advice. Yeah, for sure, especially being your son. And so, yeah.

Pressure. So sometimes not having a roadmap or a blueprint. Yeah. All is not lost, right? Because the way I viewed it was, okay, well, this is, I know what I didn't have. Right. And I'm smart enough to figure out, well, if I didn't have that, then that's what I have to provide. Right. So, yeah, my relationship with my children is so special. Yeah. How about the pressure of being, you know, your son or your daughter? Have you picked up on that, you know, like in sports or out and about?

Look, that's, it's, I had two, I have two sets of kids. So I had, my kids were older. My older kids were in middle school when, when this all happened. And my younger kids were one and two. Yeah. And so it's easy to think that they were sheltered or shielded from their father's very, very public story. The middle schoolers, obviously, were not. I've just kept an open book with all of my children, and I also knew that even a child who's one or two,

and the easy thing to assume is that they missed it. nobody misses anything anymore because everything we did this what this conversation that we will have today will live forever right it lives forever so for me to think that my children that are were one and two at the time would not grow into their father's history is ridiculous so i knew that they would grow into it and so it's been the same approach with all of them that hey but it's also not a i don't think it's a burden on them i mean a lot of their I mean, I just, I don't, I don't ask my children like, hey, do you're, what are your friends think? Do they think your dad's? But you just pick it up. I don't mean that do their friends think you're a dick? I don't, I mean, everything you've accomplished, because you have accomplished a lot. And, you know, like the way I look at it, we said, I said this, I called you.

I was like, man, I don't know a dick about cycling. You know, we got together through charity. You know, that was really cool. You know, you with your vodka and kicking us back a portion. at my foundation and we obviously had amoree who was uh you know used to work for live strong worked for me and spoke highly so my only for a into you is is charity and uh and obviously understanding what you're able to accomplish and you just alluded to the fact that even with the doping you feel like and i think from reading and people that know what they're talking about

they're like yeah he was different and i think it's the work ethic but also for me as a novice i'd like to understand better physiologically what was different about what's different about you if somebody were here like nah he wasn't different listening tell them why you were different like i've heard about a lactate something you've got a fucking giant heart there's all these fabled physiological features of lance armshaw well nobody the the the good news is is nobody that i either trained with or competed against would say that he wasn't any different, right? And so that's ultimately, you know, people ask me, like, what I, how I view my wins, well, I view them as wins. Right. Because there, there has to be a winner, and as it stands today, based on whoever

makes the rulings, there's not a way. You can't have an event like the tour without a winner. That's like having a super, that's like going back and disqualifying Tom Brady or somebody and not giving it to something. It would never do that. But there are a few physiological things outside of just a very, very healthy appetite for pain and suffering, which I still love to this day. But the lactate thing you alluded to was super important. Cycling is the tour is three weeks long. It's four to six hours a day. It's a very dynamic race.

It's not a marathon. It's not the 100 meter free. were you pacing your, you are dictating your own pace, you're at the whim of the rest of the group. So we're only nine guys. There's 200 guys in the race. So the race moves and flows a lot. And you cannot dictate that no matter how good your team is. So lactate is a constant, if the Peloton decides that we're going to go hard, either on a crosswind section or on the climbs, they're going to go hard.

And so lactate is always a part of the equation. and, you know, the easiest way to, I guess we should also define or describe a little bit. I know what I think. You know what lactate acid is, but the easiest way to describe it for the listener is if you just went out anywhere around your house and you found the steepest hill you could find. Right. It doesn't matter what condition you're in. You could have not exercised your entire life. But just imagine for a second that you stand at the bottom and you start sprinting as fast as you can up the hill.

It doesn't matter. Again, you could be a couch potato or you could be an elite athlete. It doesn't matter. You're sprinting. Ultimately, you're going to slow down and then ultimately you're going to stop. Right. And the only reason you're stopping is because of lactic acid, filling your muscles, and you just can't move anymore.

The muscles slow down and then they stop. So the ability to buffer that was a big advantage of mine, which is just a natural God-given gift, had nothing to do with substances, nothing to do with any of that. that was unique, which by the way, I didn't know that I had that. Yeah, when do you find that out? Yeah, you find it out in your 20s when you start getting tested and you're doing physiological testing that then dictates the training so you could then dictate the training zones.

But you're on the cusp of that probably coming up in the 80s. Yeah. Where there's actually testing that's modernized to the point. Yeah, you would go in a lot. It would be done in a lab as the technology. advanced you could do it on the side of the road yeah um i mean the other weird one i i think is just uh femur length like to get really yeah really weird about it um i have longer legs than i'm not very tall i'm like five 10 and a half i say that's fucking yeah that's a combine height right there

you took the half and everything yeah so i i have but i have longer legs than i do a torso so therefore the femur is longer yep therefore the lever is longer yep and then that's the lever is longer yep and And so once with the long lever, like if you gave me a kid who had a great V-O-2 and you looked at him, you're like, wow, his legs are a little longer than his torso. Look at his femurs. The kid has potential. That's what you're looking for. I mean, I don't think they're looking for it, but if somebody rolled up like that, I'd be like, oh, yeah.

Well, it's like in the NFL, you know, you see the combine times and measurements, but I'm always interested in things like ankle flex. You know, what degree can you bend that, can you dorsa flex? you know, like that's big for a pass rusher, or leg length relative to torso height. There's a lot you can glean there. And I feel like in your sport, there's probably those markers that you're like, hey, physiologically, this guy's got the jobs. And I don't know what they're doing now to, I don't even know the process they go through to, I mean, the kids come up through the junior ranks and they just, they make, they basically make their way there through results. So the thing, the thing about the 90s in watching these documentaries,

in reading to me was like obviously doping was rampant but the most interesting thing to me was like the gamesmanship and the intimidation it almost like when you think of cycling as an alpha you know football player meathead see guys riding down the street on a bicycle you're like I'm tougher than those guys you know even though even though they are they are from an endurance standpoint I mean, I would cry like a baby doing what you guys did. But I did not realize how much gamesmanship and intimidation and mental warfare you guys waged on each other. Yeah. And you have 20 teams.

I mean, look at politics, right? You have two parties. Look at the gamesmanship there. Look at the tactics. Look at the... Can we have 20 parties? It might be better. It might be better.

At least three or four. Yeah. But, yeah, so it is constantly... a political game and that political game changes every day right there may be you know stage three where you are aligned with some other team so you find a natural alignment there and you can work together without even saying it you just both know that this is in both of your interest you could get to the very next day and all of a sudden those interests totally change nonverbally yep you just know sometimes it is discussed but there many times it's it's just understood when you came across

the greats and their eyeing you up and sizing you up the American, the young guy, whatever reputation you had. Could you feel the bull's eye? I'm not talking about the doping stuff. I'm talking about just showing up and racing next to Lamont or whoever it was. No, he was racing when I started. Could you feel the, I'm going to fucking take this kid's soul if I can. Not Lamont.

He was at the end of his career. Yeah. He was about 20 pounds overweight. Yeah. And didn't understand why he wasn't competitive him. Everybody else can see it. Right. What does that, how does that happen?

You just discipline slips or? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. But, you know, I also started my career when right in the middle of Miguel Enderine's run a five tours. So Enderine was this big Spaniard that destroyed people. people on the tour. But it was very quiet. It was always a gentleman, but just to watch him and watch the way he went about business and just fucking destroyed people on the climbs and the

time trials everywhere. Like you're like, damn, you just see it. So, but guys like him were great. Others were tougher. I was not a shy. I mean, I was a 21-year-old kid from Texas that was like didn't know anything about cycling i'm like fuck y'all do the outcast yeah i'm like let's go yeah that doesn't play well with classic traditional cycling european cycling you know you're supposed to come in and keep your mouth shut so that's not the norm no no no and i won the world i won the world championships when i was 21 against indurine got second um what year is this because he was early nineteen ninety three yeah he was like the cowboys he was like the cowboys he has not one since he's he is not but he hasn't tried either the cowboys have

tried try it every year they don't we're not talking about yeah no not yet um but yeah i got to loosen you up before we get to the cowboys i'm loose all shit i'll talk about what else before the cowboys now's the time lands where i ask you the tough question what is jerry jones do a quarterback no i uh oh boy i i i should ask you that fuck dude you're kind of you're kind of you understand the situation right well he's jack wants a new deal yeah yeah well they're thinking about giving them a new deal they're up shits creek basically like they don't have a choice they got to pay doc and hope for a different result but anyways people are like we don't want to hear about football man this is a football pod but fuck it um you know like the nationalities they all had different personalities i'm sure

yeah i mean and and languages languages and and look you played a game where you you could trash talk to me across the line, and you damn sure knew he was going to understand you. We didn't. Yeah. I mean, we had at any given time, you'd have 20 different nationalities. Yeah. I mean, we had, or my final year, 2005, I think we had just on our team,

seven or eight different nationalities, our nine guys. There was only two Americans. George and I were the only two. Do you have a translator? Well, we were in America. team so guys were expected to speak english not learn the language yeah so we use of course the hardest fucking language to learn yeah but our director who who was like the bill bellichick of cycling who he speaks like five languages so i would i would during the race if he really needed to get a message

through the race radio in our year if he needed to get a message across he would say it in their language wow and he's belgian so you and the staff was belgian it was just this by the way it was fucking awesome. Yeah. Like hanging with those guys. Yeah. Like I, people like, I was like to race and to win that.

I'm like, yeah, had to do that. That was my job. But like, dude, let's talk about time and the bus together. Yeah. Let's talk about the dinner table, talking shit about the table over there that we're going to wake up tomorrow morning and beat the hell out of. Like, that was fucking amazing.

Training camps. Yeah. Nobody there. Just us. Yeah. Like fucking destroying each other. Yeah. was like that was fun those are those are they're still to this day 90% of them are like brothers

90% of those guys would would put the suit back on right now geez when it comes to the time leading up to the tour or something you guys are at the dinner table the night before like where was your head at you know I know what it's like being an athlete leading up to a big game but I had one every week. You know, I feel like you look forward to one event the entire year. Yeah. You know, like. Well, we race all year, but there was.

But there's one big one, right? Or a few big ones that you're like, is the closest correlate golf, you know, not from an athletic standpoint, but you've got your, your master's. You have your U.S. Open. You have the big ones. The U.S. the Masters is the Masters. The Masters is the Tour de France. There's three other majors. Yeah.

You could argue the Open is almost as big as the Masters. I think if you ask the players, they'd much rather win the Masters. I love golf. I could talk about golf. Fuck football. It's like, I can talk about golf all day long. But there are, you know, the Tour of Italy is the second biggest race in the world, and it's 10% the size of the Tour to France.

Wow. The Tour of Spain is the third biggest race in the world, and it's 10% the size of the Tour of Italy. So it drops off quickly. The tour is the granddaddy, for sure. And when you're leading up, it's different. Yeah, you lead up all year long, but... Yeah.

And, yeah, that's the one that matter, especially for an American team with American sponsors. I mean, nobody walk in the streets of any city in this country knows any other race. Yeah. They just don't. Yeah. They know the Tour de France.

How about this guy yawn? Yeah. It seemed like a guy you really respect. I mean, he was my number one rival. Right. Brought something out in you? Absolutely. He scared me to death.

I mean, he was, Jan Ulrich, and we can talk a lot about Jan. He's become a very close friend of mine who was not a very close friend of mine. When we raced, we were cordial. I didn't have his phone number he didn't have mine we didn't communicate we'd shake hands at the start maybe at the finish no communication

but it was just this level of very mutual respect and fear I know nobody scared me like Jan and so that fear is what got me up every day I woke up every day thinking about another man and I was like

what the fuck is John Ulrich doing today? How's he looking? What's he doing? What's his training today? What did the scale? I mean, so much of our sport is what the scale says when you first wake up. Like, you've got to be as light as possible. I'm like, what did he see when he got on the scale this morning? Because I know what I saw. I know what I'm going to do. I know I'm fucking scared.

I'm going to do everything I can and use that fear to motivate myself. And, dude, he was, and he had incredible talent. This kid was from, and hopefully it comes to the U.S. Amazon just did a four-part series on his life. I mean, he's had a very, very difficult life, most of which I did not know. I've since learned since we've become close. And they sent me the, I did a bunch of interviews for the documentary and they sent it to me with subtitles. So I learned so much more about his upbringing growing up in East Germany being the anointed one, becoming, he won the tour when he was 21 or 22, he was the biggest athlete in Germany. He was bigger than Boris Becker.

And he was crazy. Like this fucker was crazy. So not equipped to handle the level of success and attention that came with that. And the boy, was he good. He was, he was a beast. And so, but, you know, I've talked about these guys that couldn't handle the downfall and and yon was one of them his story is i'm not talking out of turn here i mean his story's been very public um drugs alcohol addiction um on death knocking on death door multiple times and um i

you know i leaned into that not because i knew him and loved him and hung out with him and had his phone number, but because I had such fear and respect for him. And he really made me. And so I, you know, I kind of made it one of my missions to help this dude. And yeah, it's been, thank God, he's, you know, we're now, geez, now probably two and a half years sober, totally sober. It's addiction, a big problem in that sport. I mean, just, because in the NFL, obviously with the painkillers and everything, it's been a well-beaten path. I think there, look, I mean, the ones who unfortunately haven't, who have passed, have passed, you know, it's Pontani, Jimenez, Vandenbrook, perhaps Gomont, diet drugs, drug overdoses.

They were also the biggest name in their country. Every country kind of had their king, right? Yeah. And so, but there's not a lot more of that. It was just the most high profile and the ones who suffered the most consequences who just weren't equipped to manage that downfall. And so, and Jan was close. Right.

Yeah, Jan was very close and, man, I fucking love the guy. I'd do anything, dude, to get up right now and go hang out with John. I would. Like if somebody could just, what are these things that moved? Teleport. Yeah, some shit like that. Yeah, if that shit happens soon. Like, I would get on it right now, if John said, let's go for a bike ride in an hour.

I would be there immediately. I fucking love the guy. When it comes to the mental part of it, because to me, I'm not a, I have a great, like, lung capacity. We're not as specialized as a cyclist, but I know from my athletic background, I'm an endurance guy relative to the other guys on the field. But if I get on a treadmill for two miles, I'm bored of it. as fuck. It hurts more than the pain of the workout. I have ADHD and all that shit. So sitting and doing something for a long time. Yeah. I'm strangely really good at it, but I also struggle with the mental part of it, the boredom. Yeah. And, and,

well, then you're never going to be able to do it. Well, I think the cycling career is not going to happen. But I'm just wondering, did you have a happy place? Like, in your head. Are you kidding me? That's the happiest place. So you're already happy. When you're in pain, you're happy when you're when you're when you're you're got to be a glutton for punishment it seems like to do you your sport look we all have our we all have um some place that we lean on or go back to or know that that is our happy place right my wife this has really gotten into meditation right so she knows she can go to that place and obviously you're all alone and and and great things happen right? And it could be a swimmer that just wants to go, you know, I don't know about swimming in a pool,

but swimming in the ocean or my place is the bike. And I do a lot of it. I mean, I train, I do all kinds of training, but I could go for an hour long run or an hour long bike ride or an hour long swim. The bike is by far, it's the church. Right. Right. I can get to a good place with, or I can go to the gym for an hour. It's great. It's more of a process and just to work out. The bike is like therapy. Yeah. It's a whole other vibe, which is also great when you get to,

is even better when you can ride alone. I do love riding alone. Yeah, well, I mean, doing, I like going to movies fucking alone. I like going to dinner. Like, I don't get it. Alone's good. No, it's my happy place. My wife doesn't like it so much.

Chris Long's falling far. Look at him. He's over there all along. Dude, he's sitting at fucking iron claw all alone. He's on his sixth box of soda and fuck. We keep waiting for somebody to roll up. He's, I don't know, his brother, his dad, maybe some friend of his, been on the show. Still there alone.

These guys see me wandering around towns full out. It doesn't scare them. When it comes to the cancer diagnosis, I've heard you talk about knowing you were sick, feeling like maybe something was off, but you're competing, right? And you've got tumors in your body. Well, I didn't know it, but yeah. I mean, what did that feel like? Did it feel like, hey, I'm just run down?

No, I didn't feel, I didn't know what was going on. So I didn't, look, it's a hard endurance sport. So it's most people are in a constant state of feeling run down. Right. I didn't know if that was what it was, but there were other symptoms, you know, the blurry vision, the headaches, the coughing of blood. It had nothing to do with being run down. And then when you get diagnosed, I don't know if I've heard you talk about this.

You don't seem like you're afraid of a lot, maybe failing. I don't know what actually scares you. Yeah, well, there you were, yeah, definitely afraid then for, certainly for the first half. The first half. Yeah. And what was the prognosis? You know, because everybody's always like, what are your chances? That's what everybody says.

What were your chances? Well, there's, and I think it's, I think in hindsight, if you went back to the doctor's, look, I don't think any doctor says to a patient newly diagnosed, you have no chance, unless it's something true, you know, a really bad pancreas, pancreatic cancer. or a lung cancer where there really isn't a chance. Situations like this where one of the most severe cases they'd ever seen, you know, they say, look, we can't tell this kid he's got a 5% chance. They're like, ah, it's 50-50.

If you ask them now, now it's been, this year will be the 28th year. They would probably tell you it was about 5%. Yeah, it was bad, man. It was, my tumor markers were not the most they've ever seen. but they were high, dude. That was bad. Did you, I mean, it would be a silly question to ask anybody else, but I feel like you're different,

so I don't know where the wall is with you, but like, were you afraid of death? Certainly early on. And it didn't, you know, the crazy thing is, I mean, my treatment lasted less than four months. So you only had a few months to really ruminate on this thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And but as soon as I started to just, I was actively involved. I was, I didn't just have the doctor coming. Yeah, you know, chest x-ray looks good and tumor markers look okay. And I was like, no, no, no, no. Put that fucking thing on the, on the screen. Yeah. Like put the original one, put the last one. Yeah.

And put this one. So I'm watching this thing. I had, you know, 12 golf ball size tumors in my lungs. So I'm like, okay, original. That's fucked up. The last one, which was whatever, two weeks ago, going away. Oh, and this is today? All right, shit.

I'm an athlete. Like, what do athletes do? That's my scoreboard. I'm like, I'm getting killed. I'm down by 30. Yeah. Oh, now I'm only down by seven. Yeah.

Oh, fuck. This game's tied now. Right. I'm like, I can't wait for the next one. I literally thought that way. Yeah. I played it out like it was, it was me. against some opponent.

And coming out of it. Same with the tumor markers. These are just numbers. Yeah. Right? My beta HDG when I was diagnosed was 90,000. Anything over to yours is less than to, mine is less than to.

90,000 is unheard of. My first, the next time I did the blood work is 9,000. I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah, yeah. So I kept getting energized and motivated by these drop-offs. You treated like not a sport. Oh, I did. Yeah.

Yeah. life. Yeah, I was like, man, like a scoreboard. Yeah. And when you come out of it, do you feel less invincible? Because it would seem so natural to me to feel fundamentally more... I think you feel more invincible. Well, I think there's a period, I think there's a natural period of certainly uncertainty or just stress about some sort of relapse or, But once that subsides, I think it's, I think it came on. Yeah. I felt that way.

And with all the work you guys have done, because for me, like, I don't, I don't, the other stuff is to me so separate from what you guys have been able to accomplish as a foundation. And I know it's not you guys anymore, which is a point of contention, I'm sure, for you. But you got to see the work and be proud. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I don't think, look, I, I, it was, I was a part of Live Strong for 15 years. And we, man, we had a good run. I mean, we raised half a billion dollars and helped three million people. Yeah.

So, yeah. I mean, I, I, uh, there's no part of my life today that's like, man, I feel like I didn't do enough. Yeah. I feel like that's, you did more than enough. You did a lot by beating it. Just by beating, if you never donated a dollar, it's people watching your struggle and saying, hey, you know, my favorite athlete or, you know,

somebody I've seen on TV is going to do the same thing I am. Yeah, and that's, but that's always my, that's, it's not everything to me, but if you're, if you are projecting success, then you, in my mind, you have to think about some way to give back. I just, that, the, I don't know how people, don't think that way, right?

It's the same with the vodka. And I told you this when, you know, the whole premise behind our vodka was that it's, we make it with 100% Aspen water. Okay, well, so what? But when you open the tap in Aspen and that water comes out, that's it. Yeah.

That's the water. There's no, no magic. Yeah. That's the water. I'm like, fuck, how blessed are we to just drink this water, shower with this water, go to a restaurant, say, give me tap water. Like, that's sick. It's amazing.

And so then in my head, I'm like, well, wait a minute. There's only 3,000 people here in Aspen that are saying that. What about all these people in the world that either have shitty water or have no water? So my head then goes to, all right, well, let's figure out who those people are. And that's how we got connected. Yeah, that's super cool, man. I'm like, if your whole, I don't know how you can play it. That's your stick that you have, that it's made with 100% Aspen water.

And not acknowledge that, you know, millions and millions of people around the world don't have water. It's good to have water, period. Period. Period. Period. Aspen water is pretty good. Yeah, and there's only 3,000 people there. And you should be drinking water in Aspen.

I went to a wedding up on Aspen Mountain and I was fucked up. Well, that happened. And, yeah, that happened on the top of Asper Mountain? Yeah, you ride the gondle up and seven beers later, you're like... Yeah, you want to know why that happened? Because I'll do. Well, what else? It was Sam Bradford's wedding.

The kid who played at OU? Yeah. That's a sweet kid. I like that kid. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. One of my best buddies. When he blew out his knee against...

Blew out his knee a couple times, man. But when he was in college. Yeah, blew it out in college. The Texas OU game, I think. Twice in the pros. Standing right there. for both of them. And I felt so bad because I always liked that kid.

And we, you know, obviously I'm a Texas fan. Yeah. And I was going to say for you, that's a little, this is like, I know, but he just seemed like such a good guy. And my buddy was at the game with a bunch of people from Oklahoma. This is a true story. Yeah. You can ask him.

And I said, fuck, dude, I feel, and after the game, I said, I feel so bad for that kid. And, uh, and I know, and I was called my buddy. I was like, I know you're with all, I mean, Oklahoma, they all talk to each other, right? Like, that shit, that shit hole. Mm-hmm. They're all. all have each other's number. I said, this is a true, I said, like a support group. I was like, I said, um, can you get me his number? I said, find his number for me. Yeah. Like, who says that?

Yeah. He got his number for me. Yeah. So I called this kid. I'm like, dude, I am so sorry. Really? Yeah. Yeah, he can tell you about it. Really? Yep. He's a great guy, man. Yeah. He just seemed like it, even as a college kid. But back to where we go, oh, back to why you had such a headache after that wedding. Look, obviously alcohol gives you a headache even at sea level. it gives you a headache in Denver, which is 5,000 feet. Aspen is 8,000 feet. But you were at a wedding at 11,000 feet. Yeah.

So, I mean, your tolerance goes. Yeah. And I only speak from experience. I went to a wedding. I've been to multiple events up there. Dude, the next day you're like, this is the worst morning. Yeah, like, what the fuck happened? All right.

So that leads me my next question. Because you seem to understand the human body and like, you know, everything that comes along with it. How do you beat a hangover? How does like a world-class cyclist, is it just a liquid IV like the rest of us pours or is it like you guys got special concoctions? There's a ton of people that have products that say this will cure a hangover and they get reviewed. They get just they get reviewed by the press, but they also get reviewed in the lab. Whoever comes up with that cure, I mean, we think the people that came up with those Zempik are super rich now.

Yeah. Whoever fucking comes up with a cure for the hangover? It's over. He's richer than Elon. Richard than Bezos, 100%. There's no cure, right? Okay. Well, that's good in here.

I'm not doing the wrong thing. And I always love these articles. They're like, we're going to review all these different cures. And then at the end of every single article, they quote some doctor who says, look, the only way to not have a hangover is to not drink. Yes. Well, nobody was reading that article. That's not why I was.

to that point. Like, and then feel bad like, whoa, what kind of loser am I? Like, I was just looking for a little hack here. Yeah,

I was looking for a cure. You called me an alcoholic. Yeah. Obviously, but it's all about, it's all about hydration. I mean, if you're,

that's what's happening. How much water are you drinking on tour? A lot. Like fucking gallons a day. And you're not drinking. It's obviously not drinking. Salt tablets? You guys were.

The drinks have salt and sugar in them. Now, could you feel a difference? an altitude at different spots since we were just talking about altitude like so what's funny with race is like if you look at if you watch the tour and you whether you're they're going up out duels or you're or you're going up uh montvon two or the tourmalay it you look like you're in colorado and those are the biggest mountains in europe you're never that high up to west the most iconic climb in the tour to france is the same elevation as denver so you're but you're starting at zero you're going so

you get the difficulty of the elevation change because you have to get up there you get the gain divert as we call it but you never in the tour are you like whoa i feel like i'm at altitude really that never because you're you're going over four passes a day you go over one you come down you're back to a thousand feet go back up go down you're back to without like you're very rarely at altitude and even when you are it's not that high right and von two is six six six 65 and I'd have to be like it might look like you're at 10 because of the snow cap mountains and that sort of thing but there's a prominence there so there's not a 10 have you bike somewhere where you were like damn dude well I mean if you any place

aspen yeah if you and when you first go there for sure like those first for the first week absolutely you think you'd be a good altitude athlete this might be the gotcha part of the interview where I invite you to kille one year 19 you have invited me So I'm just going to keep doing it. 19. 341. You think you could smoke that probably, right? How long?

It's like six days. Yeah. That's why I'd never done it. Next time, send out the invite where we go up and down in a day, and I promise you all do it. I'll go up and down in a day with you. Yes. I don't want to spend six. I don't want to go that far.

I don't like. I don't like. I don't like traveling that far. I don't like. I'm with you. I'm with you. I like travel, but I don't, that's like long trips. I think my days of those are done.

But six days is too long. It's too long. I'll get it shortened. 19,000 feet, everybody's going to feel. Yeah, you feel it. Yeah, 100%. You feel it. People with oxygen.

They're not with oxygen. We've had to get, I mean, I've gone to like five times and I've had to do oxygen once or twice where, you know, it's just so variable on how you're taking care of your body. Right. It's really what it comes down to, all the little things that you think you're doing or not doing hydration. Hydration being the biggest one. Getting the calories down because at altitude you do not feel like eating.

Yeah. Eating right things. Yeah. So it's just, it's the same shit you're doing. It's getting in tune with your body and figuring out, you know, like. Is it cold up there? We just had a group summit last week in a fucking blizzard. Yeah.

And I took this year off. So, I don't like, I don't like. What are the other sports? We talked about football, but like endurance sports or like just other sports. So you have a lot of reverend. for with your background from a standpoint of man that looks fucking hard um that i that i actually do or just that you haven't tried that you're a fan of i know you i've heard you talk about swimming

i love swimming is one of my favorite sports golf is one of my favorite sports um boy what would there uh you said swimming was the hardest mental exercise i think yeah i think if you've you If you consider the goat of swimming, and I would make the argument that he's the goat of goats is Michael Phelps. You met him? Yeah. He's a nice guy. He's a great guy.

Built for swimming. Complicated guy. He's absolutely built for swimming. Like born to swim. Somebody came down and said, okay, we're making you the goat. Because everything about him was made to swim. But, dude, if you went back and cataloged his entire life's work in terms of training, what it took, the hours.

I mean, I grew up swimming, so I know what two a days are like. I know what it's like to get up at 5 and be in the pool at 5.30 and swim until school starts and get out of school and swim again. I mean, we're swimming. That's what he did times 10. And, you know, in a pool, staring at a black line. Yeah. There's not like two days a week where you get to go swim around with, like, you know, tuna or anything.

Like, it's fucking, it's tough. Yeah. Those triathlons, that's how you got into it. Like my buddy's Dunkona. He just named Rick Perel. He actually is a fan of yours, and we were talking, and, you know, he was explaining some of the cycling stuff. But, you know, the thing that I'm always asking him is, like,

when you're doing a triathlon, are you thinking about sharks? What does he say? He's like, fuck, no. No, I don't think. Sharks are, there's a thousand people. Two thousand in Congress. You'd have to be pretty fucking unlucky. Two thousand people in the water.

Those sharks aren't. They don't want any of them. They don't want any of them. They don't want any of them. of that. Okay. So that's not even a thing people talk about it, those things. I've never seen. I mean, I swim open water all the time. You see little, little, you know, reef sharks, but I've never, I've never come up on a great white, so I can't, or any kind of tiger shark? Neither have I, and I won't, because I'm not getting into that motherfucker.

So, so what's, what's it, what's it, what's it, what's it, what's it, is it intimidating? Is it, you know, like to go do the biggest triathlon? I've never raised, I, I did the half iron man in color. I never. I never. in 2012 I was training to that's when everything sort of came crashing down I was back doing triathlons professionally

and starting with half iron man's yeah so I did Galveston Panama Florida I did Kona I did the half Iron Man in Kona this is professionally so I'm a

yeah when I was a 41 year old guy and and then I had Then I flew to France, and I was about to start Ironman France. So I was going to be my first full Iron Man in Nice. Yeah. And then the shit hit the fan, and I got pulled out. And then I never did Cona.

But, I mean, Cona's one of those special. I think all of Hawaii just has a special air to it. It's a very special place. And Cona as well. It's just super diverse, so much history there with the event. but the Iron Man's I've never I never did one but halfs are hard enough what's a half there's a half of a bull no I know but give me the fucking metrics one point two miles swim I did fucking geometry motherfucker one point one point two miles swim

not even geometry is fractions one point two miles swim 56 mile bike and then a half marathon 56 mile bike half marathon so you can run like 12 miles or so they're 13.1. Okay, good. Are you, when you watch football, do you think people are crazy to play it? I don't think they're crazy to play it. I think most parents are crazy to let their kids play it. I would agree.

Yeah, and we had this very, look, I've had, I have two boys. My son played football at Westlake, which is like playing. It's a big deal. That's the Notre Dame of High School. school. It's like Breeze, right. Breeze, Foles, Justin Tucker, you know, a bunch of guys.

Yeah, Tucker. And so, but he was big. I mean, in high school he was 260 pounds. He played O'Line. You're like, all right. Your son? Yeah. No shit.

Yeah. How tall is he? Six-three. What the fuck? I know. I don't know what happened, man. What age are you like, damn, this guy, I can't tell him what to do anymore. You got to have.

So that I wasn't worried about my 14-year-old, who's a freshman in high school, who now does not go to Westlake, goes to a private school, is, you know, 5, 8, and 110 pounds and one to play football. Yeah. And he's playing private school football.

Right. Which is like 1-100th of playing at West Lake. Yeah. And even then, man, I go to these games, I was like, I can't take it.

Like, kids are getting fucking laid out. And I was like, and even he sensed it. He's like, I don't know if this is for me. So I don't, I'm glad that he's going to focus on basketball. Yeah.

I mean, you know, listen, especially at the youth level. If you're not going to play on Sundays, don't play the game. Well, there's no way to know, you know, so like. Well, then if you don't really, if you don't think you have an outside chance. Scholarship, you know, for some people, I think, you know, getting an education. And the NIL money now is very. Okay. If you don't think you're going to play on Saturdays or Sundays.

Yeah, you're not going to make money. Right. You know, if you're not going to be, and I would agree with you. I mean, like, listen, I'm not saying nobody should play football, but what I am saying is, like, my kids are going to wait until at least high school. They're going to, for tackle football. I think at the youth level, there's some really bad coaching. Right.

You know, and it's like, what is the point of building bad habits? Yeah. This means a lot more coming from you than from me. Nobody's going to listen to me when it comes. No, I think if I could, but you're the dad that didn't play that has to weigh that outcome. You just see it, dude. And maybe, I mean, we had times as a parent, and then you're in the stands with other parents where kids, I mean, there was a time where a kid they had to bring the ambulance on the field. The Hamlin thing last year was tough for all of us.

That just, yeah. You guys had a guy pass away in, what, 95 right in front of you guys on tour? Yeah, yeah. And that's not normal. That's not, it hasn't happened since. So there's been one tragic. They have died in other races. but not it's I mean a kid died last

last summer in the tour of Switzerland no way yep a professional a good cyclist a crash yep off the side of the road how often are these crashes happening and like crashes happen every day now when a crash happens it's pretty clear who's in the wrong yeah or no anything can happen yeah I mean there's so much

something can go wrong with the bike I mean, look at the, look at two or three years ago, the lady, remember this, standing in the road with the sign? With the fucking sign, dude. Okay, so whose fault was that? I don't know. Duh, hers. Hers, yeah. It was her fault.

Well, I thought that crash never happens. Or, you know, the way we design roads now, we call it road furniture with traffic control and pylons and speed, you know, shit like that. Like, that's, those are the roads you have to, in the old days, you just went straight through. And now there's all these creative ways to control and slow down and sort of manipulate traffic. We have to get around that shit. Yeah. So people hit that. Yeah.

Like one guy hits them at least four or five or ten or fifty other guys are going to go down behind him. And how fast are they going at that point? Could they be? That crash with the lady, for example? They were going 35 miles now. Jeez. When you're going that fast, it's going to affect a lot of people. Yeah.

You can't stop quick enough. Damn, dude. So what's the biggest crash you ever saw? Not the most dangerous. Obviously, that was really tragic, but one that it was like a fucking pile up. Oh, and some sprint. I mean, they crashed a lot in the sprints and in the road. 40, 50 people, easy.

Yeah, because it narrows up. Typically people together. Yeah. Yeah, bad. Bad. People ask me all the time what it's like to crash. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, I do know, but.

I'm like, dude, just put on your bike stuff and have your wife or your buddy drive the car. Yeah. You sit in the passenger seat, get all your bike shit on. Put your helmet on. Have them go like 30. Just go down the road right here from front of us. Go 30. Yeah.

And jump out of the car. Yeah. Yeah. You say it like that. I'm like, that's exactly what it feels like. I had a bad bike crash in college. Yeah. I was going to dorms to visit some gal.

I had a couple pops. Yeah. I got the, you guys probably never experienced this, but where your fucking handlebars go like this, and you know it's over. Speedwobble. Is that what they call? It was right on campus, dude.

Did you have your hands on the bars? Hard to remember exactly how it went down, but I, that sounds like your hands were not on the handlebars. I don't know, man, but she had a first aid kit in the dorm room, so it was great. Her mom sent her to school with a first aid kit. She was going to be patching up some 280-pound idiot, fell off a bike, trying to court the daughter.

So what's the sport like now? Like is it has it lost a lot of the luster because I feel like a lot of it is driven by star power. Yeah. And you guys were stars. And I don't know the sport well enough to know, but like now is it different? I think there's there are quite a few bona fide stars now. Yeah. I think the sports in a, for as good as it can be right now for the way that it's structured and the way we won't,

I won't bore you with the structure of the sport, but there are bona fide. stars. I mean, there's 10, I would say, 10 megastars in cycling. Who's the guy? Is there a the guy? And is that a problem if you don't have a the guy? It is a problem. But the guy is probably Pokachar. Yeah. But right behind him is a whole, is eight or nine other guys? Huge names. And is it a clean sport now? I get asked that all the time. I don't. It's hard to know.

I think it's basically clean. I don't know. I don't have any connections to the sport. I don't ask. Yeah. Like that's not my job. My job is to commentate on the sport and cover the sport in our own unique fashion. Like if something happened, we would probably talk about it.

Yeah, you can react to news. But I'm just talking about, I'm like every other dipshit that watches the race. Does that how you feel? 100%. Is it freeing to be a guy just podcasting? can be wrong and you can make objective comments that people know our show our main show which is you know we do all the races outside of the tour we do virtual the tour show is in a studio is built out yeah it's it's it's way better yeah you just you can ham and egg it way better um but we work

for ourselves right we're we're an independent crew that we can say whatever the fuck we want to say and right nobody's there's no producer coming over to me from NBC like hey dude you know no more F-bombs right which that would just yeah like no we do whatever we want yeah and we know more than anybody yeah so it's this fun combination of

deep knowledge experience irreverence freedom like just let it rip but that's what people want to see they want to see I think so I mean that's look like like a regular person I mean look the numbers don't lie yeah we do of 250 to 400,000 downloads a day.

Yeah. During the tour, a day. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. Yeah. We might start a tour podcast. Yeah. For hearing that. Yeah.

Damn, dude. But no, how's the reception? Like, you don't, it doesn't sound like you travel to events a lot, but like, I'm sure you've seen guys out who are your, you know, you're a contemporary for a lot of these guys. And, you know, even with the way the era had kind of a darker cloud over it in retrospect, respect, I feel like people have to look at you like one of like a Jordan kind of guy, you know, especially for an American cyclist. Like, do you feel like you get the respect you deserve when you run into these guys

or is it complicated because of what they grew up hearing? The younger guys? Yeah. I mean, honestly, I don't meet. I mean, these 10 guys I just told you about, I haven't met one of them. Really? So this job doesn't ever take you to the front lines where you're holding a microphone talking Yeah, man. People are always like, why don't you go to France and do your show over there?

It'd be great. You'd be on site. I'm like, and leave Aspen in the summer? Yeah. Like I literally in Europe, motherfucker. I'm like, I wake up in my fucking PJs. I stumble down. I watch the race. I drink coffee. Yeah. I stumble over to the studio. I throw on a t-shirt. Stumble over to the studio. Knock it out. And then I go ride my mountain bike for three hours.

Yeah. And I never leave. Yeah. And it prints money. Like, what's wrong with that? Like, I'm, no. So no, we don't, we, I never,

we've had some folks on the show. So we'll, we'll, uh, Zoom people in. Um, so that's cool. That's where Zoom's nice. Yeah, that's, well, they're, they're over there. And they're going over there. They're sitting in the team bus and 5G they get, it's, it works.

But no, no contact. Yeah. Lance, I appreciate the time. Absolutely. This has been a pleasure. It's a world that I'm obviously not an expert in, and so it's cool to have you sitting here.

You got my number. I know you're going to have a lot of follow-up questions about cycling. Yeah, dude. I'm going to get a bike, bro. I want to get a bike. I want to go 35 down the hill. How about I just let you borrow one? Okay.

Is it going to hold me? I'm 250. You'll hold you. These bikes hold anything these days. Okay, brother. All right. Well, I appreciate you. Yeah.

Yeah. Have fun. Thanks for all the work you did on, you know, cancer research and everything. I mean, as a philanthropist, I think what you guys did is amazing. So thank you. And thanks for coming in to our orbit. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, brother.

Anytime.