Green Light with Chris Long - Lovie Smith! Dolphins Disciplined for Tampering, Deshaun Watson Suspension & NFL Training Camp Updates.

Episode Date: August 2, 2022

(2:06) - Miami Dolphins Lose Draft Picks and Stephen Ross Fined and Suspended After NFL Finds the Team Guilty of Tampering with the Patriots, Buccaneers, Saints, and Tom Brady and Sean Payton.  (16:06) - NFL Training Camp Updates, Kyler Murray Contract and Deebo Samuel is Extended in San Francisco. (45:57) - Deshaun Watson Suspended 6 Games by the NFL’s Independent Arbiter Judge Sue Robinson.  (1:09:52) - Houston Texans Head Coach Lovie Smith on Texans Training Camp, Davis Mills’ Leadership, Minority Head Coaches in NFL and Training Camp Pranks and Fights. Green Light Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc8cAKvkL1hTN_ZoirFzln_r8U3zUxf1HWXj8h8wttLxhJhHw/viewform Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light Tube YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenLightTube1 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. https://www.greenlightpodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Tennessee, y'all, 2. 1-800-9-9-7-89. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast. Cowboy. We got some juicy NFL news for you today. We're going to talk Miami Dolphins. We're going to talk to Sean Watch and suspension. We'll talk Debo Samuel's contract extension

and we'll roll through a number of NFL training camp updates. We also have Houston Texans head coach Lovy Smith. He's going to go in-depth on the Texans training camp, Davis-Mills leadership, and his biggest lessons in almost 20 years in the NFL. Y'all enjoy. Okay, Reed, we're bending time and space right now. It's Tuesday afternoon.

The pod was supposed to be out Tuesday morning. I'll credit myself with the late release. I couldn't get the plane off the ground last night trying to do a podcast. That was just not my best performance. So I told the guys, hey, let's go home and try this again. And boy am I lucky that we did try it again and that we didn't put out of podcast this morning because there was a giant bombshell, bomb,

whatever you want to call it, the drop today in Miami. And it's going to echo in New England. There's some other teams involved. But Reed, why don't you take it away and tell me what happened just a couple moments ago? We recorded

the pod and had to come back and put this thing in the open because the news just broke. So it's about 2 o'clock, East Coast, right now Tuesday. And the news is that the NFL notified the dolphins that the team would be stripped of their first round pick in 2023 and their third round pick in 2024.

Stephen Ross is suspended from the team until October. He'll be fined a million and a half dollars. All of this stemming from a six-month investigation that found the dolphins, primarily Stephen Ross and Vice Chairman Bruce Beale, that they violate. to the anti-tampering policy. Three occasions from 2019 to 2022, from the conversations they have with quarterback Tom Brady

and the agent for then New Orleans Saints coach, Sean Peyton. Yeah, so immediate reaction. Another owner has to retreat to his yacht. You know, that's probably where Stephen Ross is going to be hanging out.

Back at the scene of the crime where he was trying to lure, Brady showed up to his boat slip infamously. And he was trying to get him to join the dolphins. B-Flow, that infamous meeting where B-Flo was led to the yacht, and Brady was on the yacht. And B-Flo said, I'm out of here. This looks like a fucking FBI sting or something.

I got to go. There seemed to be some truth to all that because the NFL has come down on dolphins when it comes to tampering. my immediate reaction on tampering is I think where this is going to get interesting is Brady's part in it because Brady was playing for the Patriots in 2019 that was the year they lost to the Titans

in the playoffs so what does that mean for Brady like what's going to happen to Brady if anything and then also like what does that mean as a guy who play with Brady and I think the world of Brady I think he's a great team man and he's an awesome fucking guy

but is he going to catch flack because he's like the face of a franchise, and he's in some form or fashion in negotiations with another team in the division of all places, plotting his next move. And I think it's going to be illuminating. The takes are going to be illuminating? You know, are people going to criticize Brady?

You know, it doesn't sit quite right with me, but I also know that coaches are constantly looking out for their next move. I've been a player before thinking about my next move. Now, I wasn't on the phone with anybody. But what's the big difference between plotting, you know, in your own head and having your agent orchestrate your next move? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. I know it didn't sit right with me when I heard it immediately.

And I think Brady probably catches some hell for this. But at the end of the day, if I'm really thinking it through, people in corporate America are constantly plotting their next move, right? like you're on the phone with your next job trying to get that job. I know I've interviewed people while they were at their current job. You know, like I know sports world is different. Team sports are different. And I think it'll be interesting to see what players have to say about that guys that played with them. Like, what does that mean?

I think Tom was a great teammate and a great dude. And I think part of what's going to get him over the hump on this thing, if there's any flack coming his way, is that he is that guy and people like him. you know, being likable is like a bulletproof vest in these situations. So, listen, tampering, losing the draft picks, you know, you could argue that, you know, losing the draft picks in this little suspension from Stephen Ross, was it worth the risk trying to go out and get Sean Peyton and Tom Brady? Probably. Do you think that's a big enough punishment for them, the first round pick and the third round pick?

I'm not really sure, right? I don't know how I feel about tampering. I'm just going to like, I don't have like a take on tampering. It's not something that we've had to talk about a lot in NFL circles. It feels like in the NBA, there's a lot more tampering, right? That's like more of a topic of discussion. Usually punished by losing a second round pick, not not a first rounder. Yeah, and it's hard to compare.

I do think there's something wrong with tampering, right? You know, I'll say this. I don't trust Stephen Ross, not in the least bit. know, just from seeing how he moves and his dealings. So nothing he says in the aftermath of this thing really moves me in any direction. But what's really interesting to me besides, like, the tampering aspect of it is the other key word that's kind of gotten swept under the rug here. There are some allusions to it kind of being suggested, the tone, the setting,

the context of how Stephen Ross maybe suggested that the Dolphins Tank was, question. It was kind of glossed over in this report. Like, obviously nothing's happening at the moment with the tanking part of this thing, right, Reid? Right. So I think that's really interesting. I'm not saying it happened for sure, but I am saying that if I was a betting man, I think it happened. And I think that, you know, out of the two T words, there's one that the NFL would have a hard time coming back from. Tampering is one thing. I don't think that's going to move the needle. And, you know, like, I don't think people are going to be up in arms about it. But tanking is a whole other thing. You know, that undermines the integrity of the game. You know, that

that fucks with the G word gambling. And it diminishes the trusts that people have in what's going on on the field. And Flores said that he's disappointed that the investigator minimized Ross's offers and pressures to take games to tank games that basically that they didn't see it as severe as severe a punishment as he thought it should be well i'll just tell you this much like if tanking is involved as the player who's played on bad teams uh i want to take this moment to remind you that that losing in the nfl is fucking traumatic and losing a lot of games in the nfl is traumatic it changes who you are like like like if you go through seasons of that i mean it really does change who you are fundamentally. I'll never be the same as a person after my years in St. Louis. I mean,

I'm not saying I'm like broken, but my personality is definitely different. And as a player, I was lucky to make money and lose. Like, you know, I played well and was able to cash in on a big contract and that sort of thing. But a lot of guys don't get paid. And a lot of guys, opportunities are affected by losing in the NFL. You talk about, you know, the context in which somebody plays, if they're intentionally trying to lose games, you think that's conducive to the player earning a bigger check and free agency? I don't care if it's one season. The average length of a career in the NFL is three years.

So the dent that a losing season, an engineered losing season can make on a bunch of guys' career pass, it's untold the effect. And I think the tanking thing is much more nefarious and coincidentally is being glossed over and is not being emphasized because on the other side of the coin there, the NFL is going to have a harder time from a public image standpoint and a trust standpoint coming back from a tanking accusation than a tampering admission. So I haven't read the report in depth. I'm relying on you guys right now. I mean, breaking the story telling me what happened. but my initial thoughts are one, you know, I'm interested to see if Brady catches heat. That's an interesting concept to grapple with.

Is it wrong? How wrong is it? Can Brady be completely present? Can he lead a team? Can he be the face of a franchise when he's got to make a phone call to Don Yee at 11 p.m. before he goes to bed to see where negotiations are with the dolphins? I think yes. I think if anybody can compartmentalize something like that, it's Tom Brady.

Do I think it's right? Not necessarily. And is he going to get flak? He might. And maybe he should. But the thing that I think is really interesting here is the tanking component of this thing and the fact that it's not been emphasized as much. And I don't trust Stephen Ross.

So Stephen Ross says we didn't tank. That's far enough for me. I trust Brian Flores. And don't forget Bill Belichick accidentally texting Brian Flores instead of Brian Dable partly led to the Dolphins, his division rival, losing a first round pick in a very rich 2023 NFL draft. Ain't that something, Reed? Chestnut checkers.

I mean, the guy's fucking Bobby Fisher without the problematic stuff. This guy, dude. This guy, he's maniacal. it's unbelievable how about the what do you think bill fly on the wall i want to know what bill belichick thinks about this and i'm talking about the tampering part you know i'm talking about the uh i'm talking about the his quarterback was on the phone with with don ye who's on the phone with stephen ross in 2019 i'm sure that he wasn't surprised i feel like everybody could see that that relationship was going separate and i i feel like he him doing

this kind of thing would show that he would he is not surprised that tom brady was doing something else beyond the scenes you know bill doesn't even think like bill doesn't think it's funny to like like bill doesn't want you like talking to people before the game that are on the other team like trading jerseys taking pictures like that stuff gets a side eye you know imagine hearing that your quarterback is negotiating with a division rival you know i mean this this is juicy this I can feel it in my plums. Hey, this is all the juices running. Hey, this is a juicy story.

And it's also not what Roger Goodell wants to talk about a week into camp, dude. This couple with Deshaun Watson, if anything, this is okay. Like, this is like when you, you know, you have one injury that you want to stop thinking about and then you hurt yourself worse to kind of distract. Do you think that's why they dropped it today? I don't know. It would make sense from a PR standpoint. It gets buried a little bit.

If you think about it, I mean, like, you know, over the next three days, people aren't going to be muddying the water for Roger Goodell. He's got to decide whether he wants to appeal this thing, which is going to talk about in a bit with Sean Watson. But, you know, like, this is news that's convenient in the timing a little bit when it comes to the news cycle. I mean, Tom Brady. That's the only person that could, you know,

a Tom Brady involved scandal, an owner suspension, the docking of draft picks. He was trying to, he was trying to docked Brian Flores and Tom Brady. Now he's getting docked draft picks. How about that, Stephen Ross? How about them apples?

Uh-huh. Not the kind of docking you were after. Now you got to go dock your yacht. somewhere else. So this is the month of docking. And Stephen Ross has been docked. This is better than fiction, the NFL. Not the Deshaun thing.

That sucks. I mean, that's awful to talk about. But this stuff, you can at least chuck a little bit and say this league. I mean, this is a this league kind of situation.

Beat your heart out, NBA. All right. So now that we, now that we were rocked with a scandal at the time of recording, Let's go into what we just talked about here. I started taking Athletic Greens because I wanted to see what all the hype was about. With one delicious scoop of athletic greens, you're absorbing 75 high-quality vitamins, minerals, whole-foods, superfoods, probiotics, and adaptogens. This special blend of ingredients supports your gut health, your nervous system, your immune system, your energy, recovery, focus, and aging.

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and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. Cowboy Reed, can I get my Jim Kramer on real quick to start this show? Let's hear it. Stockwatch right here. Stock, Justin Fields, buy that stock. I don't know if it's going to work out this year,

but I'm just really excited about Justin Fields, man. I'm really excited about Justin Fields. The more I watch him in camp, I know I've made the claim before that I think he might end up being the best quarterback out of that class. There's nothing I'm seeing on the field that tells me he can't make the throws necessary

to be that guy. I don't know who he's going to throw to. I don't know if they're going to be able to keep him up right, but I love the kid. Everything about him, I'm buying that stock. That Georgia wide out, George Pickens, man, Pittsburgh just keeps like finding these phenom wide receivers.

Now, I know he wasn't hiding or anything down at Georgia, but a couple of the catches I've seen him making camp, you know, when you see a guy and you're like, I don't know, the kids say that's him, he is him, the guy's him. He might be him. George Pickens. He might be him.

I don't know. Hey, buying a little to a stock here. you know, emerging markets. That's what they call it. Emerging markets in the financial circles that I swim in. They call it emerging markets. That's what I'm buying.

Miami is an emerging market. It's a yaktory. We know it was going to be a yaktory. We know the team's going to be better. We know Tua is going to have a better year. But my infamous, Tua can't throw the deep ball. This thing's getting juicy. Tua threw a deep ball the other day.

60, 65 yards in the air. air down there in Miami. I do want to point out the acque weather forecast had the wind at 14 miles per hour. I don't know which direction the wind was blowing in, but it was a beautiful throw. I just want to say this, I would be happy to eat my words. I've said this consistently the entire time. Do I think he's going to be a consistent deep ball throw this year? No, I don't. But if I'm wrong, I will be happy to be wrong. And I hope Tua doesn't hate me. I hope I haven't come up on some fucking Google alert. Really, too, got no problem with you. It's mostly those fucking weird dolphins fans, some of the weirdest on the planet. And I don't blame y'all. But they're not running single high safety much this

year on Tyreek. And that's what was happening there in that practice clip. So, hey, from here on out, every deep ball you see to a throw, send me it. I'll retweet it. No questions asked, unless it's not really a deep ball. Okay. Don't send me some of these like 25-yard touch passes that, you know, the other day was a bona fide deep ball. So I'm buying a little to a stock here, okay? I'm buying a little to a stock. And I don't know if Tyreek Hill's fucking trolling me, but I think I read that he said that the,

the Dolphins offense is like the Waffle House. Like there's a bunch of options or something. And that made me remember that I'm supposed to go to the Waffle House. But you know what? And I know Makin doesn't listen to this podcast, I might just not fucking go because he didn't want to show up. to work in July or whatever month it was. Fucking alone over here.

Megan didn't want to come to work. Maybe I won't honor the Waffle House bet. He's not going to hear this anyways. We'll talk about it when he gets back into the office. And then Chris Boswell got the bag. My man Chris Boswell, the guy that almost died in Cleveland. The kicker for the Steelers got 20 M's. He deserves that bag.

I mean, I've seen that guy. He's got some Buddy Lee in him. Dude, the way he, I feel like I've seen him get fucked up more than once on a football field. But the one in Cleveland, man, the way he exited the frame, he was there and he wasn't like in a millisecond. It was so impressive. The back of his head hit the ground or whatever it was, man. He deserved. He almost died in Cleveland.

Imagine being a kicker and dying on the field in Cleveland. What a cursed existence. he was able to overcome that and now he's got the bag 20 million dollars Chris Boswell great kicker too so you know not just indestructible he's a great kicker guys I want to start the show with a new a new a new segment we'll see how long this lasts you want to know what it's called read please enlighten us I bet you do I bet you really I bet you can't wait it's called the observation deck I couldn't call it training camp observations because every fucking article online this time here. Have you ever noticed like if you Google a team and what's

going on? Everybody's like, these are my observations. Five observations from Colts training camp. Five observations from Steelers training camp. God damn, dude. How many observations are there? But I'm going to throw my two cents in. I get some observations. This is the observation deck. You want to know what I see read this week, watching NFL network? Aside from the aside from the post. and Daniel Jones not giving you much? Well, Daniel Jones is out there in his director's chair.

You know, they're asking him questions for seven minutes. I don't think we got a single answer out of him. It was all non-answer stuff. This guy is media train to the nines, dude. And you know, he looks great. I think Daniel Jones has got a little pep in his steps

since Dave will got to town. I think I'm buying a little. I'm buying a little Daniel Jones stock. You know, he looks so quick. Cool in that director's chair on the side of the field. Cool, calm, collected answering those questions, gave me absolutely nothing. Yeah, it tells me something. So, you know, I've seen, I've seen that fierce quarterback competition up there in Seattle.

I've seen Bridgewater Lock and Easton. Nobody's talking about Jacob Easton. I've been watching a lot of B-roll of Jacob Easton. He looks ready, Reed. That's what they were saying last year. And then Sam Ellinger got those couple of spot starts. that's what they've been saying about Drew Locke for a couple years. So your boy, your boy's got a battle ahead of them in Seattle.

So I've been, you know, I've been watching a lot of NFL network. Most of the stuff I see is a reminder that I'm glad that I'm retired. You know, that's kind of been the theme. It's usually the theme of the first week at camp over the last three, four years. I just sit back in the recliner and mindlessly watch NFL network. it's like meditation. You know, I'm listening to Baldy, break stuff down. I got Andrew Siciliano in one city.

I've got Kurt Warner, my buddy, Kurt Warner. Kurt Warner made a good point, by the way. And I'll start with injuries. This is something I've observed. Ryan Jensen getting hurt in Tampa, that's a big deal. That's a really big deal, Reed. And Kurt Warner made a great point. He knows his quarterbacks.

Kurt Warner said that Ryan Jenon, Jensen is a big deal not just because he's good, but because he's an aggressive center. And knowing Tom Brady, knowing the way he likes to climb the pocket is something we always talk about. But we don't talk about his center, you know, like in that style of play that's most conducive to Tom Brady's success. I thought Kurt made a really interesting point about how Jensen, you lose a little bit of that aggressiveness, almost like resetting the line of scrimmage in the passing game, you know, which is the thing you don't hear about a lot of and talk about a lot. But that scream that Ryan Jensen let out as he got rolled up on in training camp, that everybody's worst nightmare, man, that scream, you can hear all that hard work leaving

his body, dude, that he's been, you know, these guys have been grinding all year, man. When it comes to training camp, you work all year. In the back of your mind, you're in the garage pounding a tire with a with a sledgehammer, or you're doing up downs, or you're doing squats, and you're just thinking, fuck, I hope I don't get hurt in some stupid way in training camp.

And the worst nightmare is to get hurt the first couple days of camp rolled up on. You lose them for the year. And that's a big loss for that team. I talked about how thin they are,

more thin than you think at certain positions due to guys coming off injuries and that sort of thing like this is a big deal. And with Marpet retiring this past year, you don't have that kind of

inside stability, another player who can kind of help those two new centers, Hainesie and Leverett, who are battling for that center position. And I'd hate to be that guy. You know, the goats got to depend on me. And, you know, it's a great opportunity to play with Tom Brady,

but it's also like that's why you stay ready because you had no expectation that you were going to be relied upon this year. And it's one of Tom Brady's most important players that he relies on. And there's going to be a lot of pressure on you. Remember when Ryan Jensen kind of lost, his shit down in Chicago on a Thursday night and had a bunch of penalties and Brady looked like

you wanted to kill him. Like that's the kind of thing that's coming your way if you're a center and you commit penalties in Tampa. So that's a big injury. The James Washington injury, six to ten weeks. He's got a broken foot. Like that's just, these are the things in camp.

And a few years back, we out loud wondered towards the tail into my career if cleats were getting worse. I'm not saying that James, you know, Washington's was a non-contact injury. But it's really interesting. Sometimes, you know, like a lot of these, these foot injuries, you look at the cleats and you say, like,

the cleats are not getting better. They're kind of getting worse. So James Washington's injury is one to watch because of what I discussed in the last pod, the Cowboys, you know, when we think about the Cowboys, you think about that prolific offense, being able to put 40 points a game up, that run game, you know, Zeeke, that whole, that's yesterday year stuff, dude. you know like they're replacing guys up front steel's got to have a big year right tackle i don't know if he's up to it uh they just they just lost uh well let's go who's like their swing tackle i read

he might have to have surgery i'm not sure they lost him but McCarthy wondered out loud if he had to have surgery that usually is not a great sign so you're talking about a right tackle that's probably a liability in pass pro a little bit right now anyways compared to what you're used to then your swing tackles in trouble you lose james washington who you're going to going to need to step up as a veteran in the first month of the season and pick up the slack where Michael Gallup is sitting at home because he's rehabbing an ACL from last year. Dallas has a lot of unanswered questions and they got a really solid rookie wide out who they're going to need to step up now and be that number two.

But there's a lot of question marks in Dallas. I mean, Zich has not been productive the last couple years. I think he's averaged 60 yards a game. Tony Pollard's been the more productive back. So what does that mean? What does all this mean? I really like their rookie guard. That kid looks like a grown fucking man.

I heard he was compared to Trace Smith by Big Duke, the Cat, the Trains-O-Lyman. Shout out to Jeff Schwartz and Big Duke. You know, they get to see a lot of these guys up close and everything I hear about this kid in Dallas. I'm Tyler Smith. This guy is a fucking man, dude. He can get down and dirty in the run game.

And they drafted him from what I read to eventually maybe replace Tyron Smith, who not to mention has not played. played a full season since 16. So Dallas, I'm not buying that stock offensively. That's a lot to figure out even for a bright young mind and Kellemore. And is there anybody with a hotter hot seat than Mike McCarthy? Not just because of the expectation. You know, Jerry's 80 years old.

Like he wants to win a Super Bowl right now. But also the fact that the two guys that coach under him happen to be head coaching candidates. You know, you had one guy who is a former head coach. we coached in the Super Bowl probably looks you know the grass is looking pretty green after each Dallas primetime loss right like for Jerry walking through the hallway he's checking out Dan Quinn he's checking out Kellyn Moore right um McCarthy's looking around like are they talking in the corner like McCarthy's probably got to like follow them to see what they're saying like if they're talking by the boss hey hey Jerry you know like McCarthy's seat is hot so

Dallas is interesting. That's one thing I've observed, something to keep an eye. This is a great time to be retired. Talk about the injuries. This is also the time of year where generally as an NFL football player in the old, you know, the old agreement. I don't know how it is this year or in the last couple of years since they raised the threshold on drug testing. So essentially you can get away with it a little bit better. The threshold for how much THC needs to be in your urine has gone up.

couple years, so it's easier to get around that. But back in the day, at the beginning of camp, you'd sit around and wonder when I was going to be able to get a good night's sleep because I couldn't smoke yet. You know, like the way they did it, they did it in phases. So they would test each position group once a year. And a lot of times, it was almost like they knew who to test last. And the D-line, we always had to wait till training camp. The quarterbacks would get tests in like June. So you're talking about when you get your drug test in June, you can start blowing trees all summer and get back on your normal routine. But for a de lineman, starting in June, you're like, I got to stop smoking because I am waiting for that one test a year. And they would drag our shit out.

And the goal was, hey, you got that month break before camp. Hopefully our position group gets tested before that month break. We were never tested before the month break. And by day three or four of camp, you're not just tired because you can't sleep. But on top of that, you're waiting to get woke up at five in the morning. That's when they do the test. And they don't warn you. So there's nothing worse than going to sleep when you can't sleep anyways and wonder

when somebody's going to pound on your door. Like that's the worst. So, you know, drug testing is going on right now. There's guys that are half asleep shuffling through the hotel. hallways at five in the morning. The sun's not up. They're sore from practice yesterday. Nobody's talking.

There's people racing to the drug test room in the hotel to beat the line. There's disagreements over who got there first because the whole thing is when you get woke up at five in the morning, do you go back to bed? Because your alarm clock's going off in an hour and a half. So it's a terrible time to sleep right now in the NFL. This is the time in training camp where guys are starting to feel tired. like the immediate excitement that carries you through the first couple days of pads and you know or maybe the first couple days of practice rather is fading so when you wake up in the morning and you shuffle out to your car everybody's like a zombie people are riding the elevator down to the parking lot in the hotel nobody says a word to each other in the morning it's just a bunch of breathing it's heavy breathing and you hear the floors pass you by and you get down to the lobby and you walk out to the to the to the to the parking lot lot and it's just zombies walk into their cars, man.

Like it's just guys shuffling, no words. It's already hot as fuck. You can kind of tell like all the humidity is rising from the black top and you're like, damn, this is going to be a long day. People's feet are getting stepped on, man. Fucking people's feet are getting stepped on. I'm reading through the news. I wish they to put me in the news every time I got my fucking foot stepped on, man.

They said Patrick Mahomes got his foot stepped on, which is a big deal. And then there was another guy that made news for getting his foot stepped on. You know, people getting their feet stepped on. Do you know how much that hurts to get your foot stepped on by fucking Brandon Brooks? You work all off season to be as agile and fast as you can. And day two, Brandon Brooks, you know, setting his feet in the B gap and steps on you as you go speed, the power on a tackle. And you feel like your entire foot just fucking flattened like a pancake. That's frustrating.

Okay? People's feet are getting stepped on out there. That's what I'm observing, guys. Najee Harris. Najee Harris got his foot stepped on. That's who it was. So there's people getting their footsteps on. You know, I'm seeing pictures of Derek Henry and a cutoff t-shirt.

Nick Chubb doing agilitys. A week after squat in a single family home on one of those bendy bars. I don't want any parts of these fucking running backs anymore, man. I'm sitting at home like, that guy might really hurt me. Like tagging off on Derek Henry and practice, I might tear my body. If I teleported onto a, you know, an NFL field and I just had to tag off on Derek Henry as he hit the B gap, I'd probably tear my b-s up. I'm not prepared for that. I got Dan Campbell doing up downs, dude. I'm watching. I'm trying to watch NFL network. I'm like, holy shit. Flashbacks much. We had, Greg Williams was, was, was, you know, it was one of my favorite coaches. I've talked about him before. But he always warned us in June that when you come back in July, I'm going to have you do 40 updowns to start practice in full pads. And that's a lot of updowns.

So I would be training in this little garage here in Montana. I'd be hitting the deck 40 times a day on the concrete. There'd be a huge puddle of sweat. And I'd be sitting there thinking about Greg Williams. I'd have his voice in my head. And the sick fuck, what do you do? When we got to updown number 23 or whatever it was, if he was in a good mood, he'd just say, he'd just say that's enough.

You know, so you did all that training for 23 updowns, you know, or 20 up downs or whatever it was. So he would throw you a bone. You know, I'm seeing Trent Brown standing at the podium next to regular size people. You want to know how big Trent Brown is? Go look at him, you know, people conducting interviews of Trent Brown. The scale. It's like seeing a mountain among other mountains out there when you see Trent Brown. he looks big anyways.

When you see Giardy standing next to Trent Brown up in New England holding a microphone, you're just like, damn, these are real human beings. He's making him look like ants. Somebody is setting the edge on Trent Brown today. It is good to be retired. Like somebody is having to stop his force and getting yelled at it and about it in meetings. Like somebody has a laser pointer on them. There's a 360-pound man who's 6 foot 7.

He's running full speed at a 250-pound man. The 250-pound man is supposed to stop his feet, and you're not supposed to give any ground. That's what's happening in a New England film room right now. The edge is not – the edge needs to be tighter, dude. I'm sorry. This is – this guy is the – this is the mountain from Game of Thrones in football cleats, dude, with a tattoo of a guy in a football helmet having a threesome on his arm.

what am I going to do to this guy? I turn on to speaking to acue weather, it says 115 degrees in Henderson right now where they're practicing football. You can see the heat rising off the turf. And poor Max Crosby, he's genetically predisposed to sunburn. What are we doing about Max Crosby? I asked you last night, what's the highest SPF we can get Max Crosby?

100. Okay, we'll send him up. box of 100 SPF. Can we facilitate sending some SPF to Crosby? I want to make sure we got to protect him at all costs. Speaking of heat,

butt sweat. It's the worst time for butt sweat the entire year. You go out to practice, nobody's got a dry butt. You've been out there two minutes. You feel like there's something going on down there. There's nothing going on down there. You're just practicing in a fucking swamp.

Okay? So there's a lot of reasons is I watch, you know, NFL network, which is a really mindless fun exercise this time year, I could sit and do it all. I mean, this is NFL Christmas. Not only is it fun to watch TV, there's a lot going on. You know, I get to watch one-on-one pass rush. You know, I watch, I'll be watching Giants Camp and I watch Tibado, you know, go up against Evan Neal, which tells me nothing. It's just one rep, right? And that's why I used to always be so afraid as a player when those people, well, not afraid. In the moment, I was like, well, let me kick this guy's ass, because NFL networks over here. I don't want to be on national TV getting hemmed up by some

22-year-old here. But it happens. And that's the big fear is that they come over for one pass set. You get blocked, and then they walk away. And a bunch of people are tweeting about how you're going to play this year because of the one pass rush rep. And that's camp. and camp TV encapsulated into one thing. Did you see Khalil Mack, Rishon Slater? Yeah, and Slater looks like he's got the anchor for it. But again, this is one-on-one pass rush. You know, Mac might be working something.

He might not be trying to win the rush. He might be trying to work something in his game. Maybe Slater short-set him. Maybe, you know, maybe Mac beat him three times before, you know, we saw that last rep. And that's the scary thing about one-on-one pass rush is, you know, there's so much pressure in camp to win your rep. It's hard to work on anything new because you're afraid to get blocked,

not just to, you know, because you're a competitor, but also because NFL network might be there. And they might be filming that one play you get hemmed up. So these are all the things that go through my hand. By the way, you know, like I get to have, I get to have like mental sidebars. Like is Tibido big enough? Like I'm just staring at him standing over there next to one-on-one pass rush. I'm like analyzing guys as body sizes and stuff.

It's really interesting because you finally get to see these rookies. I talked about scale with Trent Brown. I don't learn much about how big a guy is at the combine or, you know, in college football. But when I see guys standing out there with other NFL football players, like some of the best of the best, the biggest, the baddest, it's like it really is illuminating to see some of these body types. and I was sitting there Washington, Tibidone, and I'm like, man, and I've been high on him,

but he's really going to have to work his craft, and he's going to have to be durable because he's not like an imposing cat. Another thing I saw, and I'll end with this. Devin Allen and Kwez Watkins talking about racing. They're talking about Devin Allen, of course, is like an Olympic hurdler.

So this guy's really, really fast, I suppose, right? Shout out to Devin Allen, and shout out to the birds. And shout out to Quez Watkins. My fantasy team last year, the unquestionables, will be back. We're going to make it a point to draft Quez Watkins. He's one of the fastest guys on the Eagles. So naturally, fast guys, they want to get out there in Tokyo Drift.

You know, they want to be like Paul Walker, RIP, and Ben Diesel. Not a good idea, dude. Not a good idea. I would say, if I could talk to those two guys right now and say, hey, guys, let's not. Let's just not. Let's not race. Hey, how about this? Try this.

I trust you. You're fast. You know, guys, you don't have to prove it to me. You don't have to tear your hamstring in August, proving that you're fast. Just the fact that you guys are racing each other means that you're both fast as fucked. Nobody's slow is like, let's race, right? You know, alignment are never like, let's settle this after practice. So we know you're fast.

You don't have to prove it to us. By the way, I said at end there. One more thing I saw from the observation day. Colt McCoy has a fucking gorgeous mustache right now. I mean, he looks like an absolute, I don't think he's giving you a run for your money read, but this guy looks like an absolute cowboy down there in the desert. And you might need him for a week, right?

Like you needed him last year. Kyler Murray's got COVID. He's going to miss a few days. Listen, the Kyler Murray thing before we move on here, the Kyler Murray thing was pretty funny last week. Him calling that press conference, that impromptu press conference. I'll just say this.

You know, and a lot of people said this, you know, your anger is misplaced. You know, the media, fans, people on Twitter, like, it's not disrespectful. There's a clause in the contract for a reason. I said it last week. He's got a lot of time to grow up and mature, as do all young players. And I think he's a hell of a football player. But he's got to learn to be a football player all week long, right? And so, you know, calling that press conference does nothing but make you look more guilty

in my opinion, right? And it's a tough position to be put in, but again, I think the anger is misplaced. You know, a lot of people said don't sign the contract. Okay, here's what I have to say. Study enough, and then the clause won't be in the contract. Okay, so like look in the mirror and handle your business. I think that's what Kyler Murray is going to do this year.

I believe that. I believe that because he's got no choice. That guy's got pride. He's a competitor. I've seen him play football. he's learning that now this is the next step he has to take to be great. Hopefully he takes that step because, as I said before, he has an opportunity to have Sundays kind of unlock a lot like Lamar had a few years ago where he's like the must-see TV

of the NFL if he can stay healthy and he can study. So before we get to Levy Smith, who seems like one of the most likable head coaches of all time, a guy I would love to have played for. Debo Samuel gets paid. We haven't really talked about that. I think it's great. And here's what I thought was interesting about it. Maybe I'm missing the point read, but I see a three-year deal.

I'm no contract specialist. Some guys prefer the shorter deals. We're seeing some guys do that. The four guys from that draft class all got deals, right? McLaurin, Metcalf, A.J. Brown and Philly, how could I forget? and now Debo Samuel. And, you know, I think what's interesting, and Matt pointed this out is only one of them ended up changing teams.

I mean, they all ended up staying right where they are. Debo, in my opinion, got the best deal. He got the most guaranteed money and he got a three-year deal, right? Not the most guaranteed money, but if you look at somebody. A hundred K less than DK Metcalf, almost the most guaranteed. You got almost the most guaranteed money with a three-year-old. deal. The cap is going up a ton over the next few years. Debo will be 30 when he has to go get paid again. And I think that time's up perfectly for him to hit the bank one more time if he goes

and balls out on this contract. So you know he's motivated, right? He's looking, he's playing chess. He's looking one deal ahead. He gets a value in the guarantees, especially compared to his peers, right? And then on top of that, I think he's in the best situation by far out of any of those guys. Okay, I don't care who's quarterback in San Francisco. I got to believe that Trey Lance is going to make, you know, give Debo some opportunities that maybe Jimmy didn't. I think their yards per attempt are going to go up. There's throws that Trey's going to be able to make that maybe Jimmy couldn't. You know, there's going to be more zip on the ball at times. I think Trey's problem is going to be, you know, taking a little bit off. But he's got

time to work on that. And who knows where he is right now. Debo is going to be a beneficiary of that. You know, if the offense doesn't change. I mean, you're talking about a guy who got a running workload and wide receiver workload. And that's in an offense that perfectly suits him. You know, so I think, I think out of all those four wide receivers, he has the best situation. In Seattle, you don't know who's going to be throwing you the ball. In Philly, I'm not going to mince words on this thing.

Jalen Hertz, this is like a year for him where he's got to really step up, where they're going to be moving on to somebody else in 2023. That's the facts, right? Whether you like it or not. And for AJ Brown, he might not know who his quarterback's going to be. in two years. I hope it's Jaylen, but he might not know. And Carson Wentz is throwing the ball to McLaurin this year. So the guy with the most stable situation, and I don't mean necessarily quarterback, but an offense that suits him really well, and a young quarterback that they're all in on. So there's a tremendous

amount of upside there in San Francisco, and it's the devil you know, right? So I think Debo Samu's got to be psyched about signing that deal. It also probably meant that the trade market for him wasn't as good as we thought it might have been. Now, he was asking for a lot, you know, and it would have took something to get him. But, you know, the smoke cleared, and he's a 49er. So I'm really excited about that for Debo saying, well, that's right where he needs to be. Him and Shanahan are just deadly. I recently received my Helix mattress, and I'm obsessed with it. The Helix sleep provides tailored mattresses based on your unique sleep preferences. The Helix lineup includes 14 unique mattresses, including a collection of luxury models,

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So this sucks. I don't like talking about Deshaun Watson. You know, I don't like talking about this stuff, especially not a week in the camp. This is supposed to be NFL Christmas. This is supposed to be the time that we turn the TV on, Reed. and watch B-roll of your franchise quarterback, Drew Locke, or Teddy Bridgewater, or Jacob Eason. This is supposed to be the time where I can turn on NFL network

and essentially meditate thoughtlessly while I listen to Daniel Jones, give me absolutely nothing, you know, answer all the questions without answering a single one, maybe some B-roll or Russell Wilson walking into the facility. instead a week into this shit i'm talking about the Sean Watson talking about a total fucking creep show man because that's that's what he's coming across as and that's what he's been coming across as for months on end i mean like finally we're at a point where we have a feeling what the suspension might be instead of talking about AJ Brown making that acrobatic catches in philly or

you know Jalen hurts i'm talking about the Sean Watson i'm talking about um sexual assault i'm talking about something ugly. I'm talking about something that like I really don't feel like there's a winner in this entire story. Find me a winner in this story. You can't. The NFL, they don't win. Every time something like this happens, you know, it's added to the long list of high profile missteps by pro athletes. I mean, I don't even want to call it a misstep. This is a transgression, a series of transgressions. The NFL looks bad, right? Deshawn's not a winner. I know that this is the best possible scenario for him, only missing six games, forfeiting $350,000 of his $1 million base salary, which is, of course, protected by the fact that he got 45 big ones in a signing

bonus from the Cleveland Browns, who aren't winners, right? The Browns aren't winners. We'll get to them in a second. But Deshaun Watson, as long as he plays in this league, and he can play for a very long time because this guy is a fucking phenom on the football field, this cloud will follow him. might win a Lombardi trophy, but people are going to be thinking about this. Whoever walks up to the podium to interview him is going to be thinking about this. He's good enough to get a gold jacket. I mean, he's that good. Last sack of my career, Eli Manning, okay, a week before that second to last sack of my career,

Deshawn Watson, he is impossible to get on the ground, okay? He is a phenom. But this cloud's going to follow him, dude. I mean, this is this, all the great plays he's going to make, it's going to be really hard to compartmentalize this whole thing and what you're seeing on the field. So he's not a winner. Even if he wins it,

it's almost like the more he wins, the less he's a winner, dude, because the more he wins, the more we're going to talk about Deshaun Watson. The Browns, they're not winners. Fucking Browns aren't winners. I don't care if you found your first transcendent quarterback in 20 years. I don't care if you found your first quarterback in 20 years.

By the way, I thought Baker was all right. He was all right. He just wasn't good enough. So you go out and you're so horny for a quarterback that you pull the trigger on a guy with 25 civil cases on his head. Now, I don't know what they knew or didn't know, but it didn't seem like they read what I read. It didn't seem like they did their due diligence.

So here we are. They're going to start the first six games of the season with Jacoby Preset. luckily for them Jacoby's a solid player they have a pretty easy schedule the first six games of the season coincidence I don't know they might come out of this thing four and two

they might come out of this three and three they might come out six and no they might win a Super Bowl but the Browns are still losers man because the Browns did this knowing full well what might happen they knew what they were getting into and worse yet it seems

the signing bonus deal had everything to do with what was to come, a $1 million base salary and $45 to sign. They're essentially acknowledging what's to come and saying, hey, we got something for you here to help pay these settlements. I don't want to be so cynical, but it's hard not to be, right? Roger Goodell, not a winner, not a winner at all. I think he thought he was going to be, you know, chilling out in that lazy boy. got in the basement, that famous lazy boy

of his, watching Sue Robinson work. Because if you watch football for a while, you know that he's always taken it on the chin for being kind of judged, jury, and executioner when it comes to levying punishments. You know, we remember the Zeke Elliott

suspension. We remember the Ben Rothesberger suspension. Some of these high profile Ray Rice. Okay. And more often than not, I think you guys would agree with this. Like, he comes out being heavily criticized, right? And at times for good reason. I mean, like, everybody wanted his head on a stick when steak. Everybody wanted his head on a steak. It'd be hard to put Roger Goodell's

head on a stick. Steak, maybe. Everybody wanted his head on a steak when they gave Ray Rice two games and then the video came out. And they were like, that seems like a lot more than two games worth of domestic violence right there, buddy. So he's caught hell before for punishing players. In 2020, when they did the CBA, they were like, hey, no Moss, like Jerry Jones and guys like that who are essentially Roger Goodell's boss are like, we want you out of the picture here because a lot of your, and admittedly, it's a really hard job to take a bunch of bad transgressions and like thread them all together and have some system of, hey, this is worth this much and this is worth that much. You know, the cynic in me thinks that you're

going to protect the best players and you're going to, you're going to protect the shield. different meaning to that phrase there. But like, you're going to protect the shield. When in reality, a lot of times I think they're just trying to figure out what to do. And there's no great system. So in 2020, they said, hey, Raj, you're out. We're going to bring in an independent arbiter, arbiter being, you know, the million-dollar word today, which of course is more than Deshaun Watson is getting fine.

But a million-dollar word arbiter. So Sue Robinson steps into the ball, and her first at bat is, it seems to be like a swing and a miss to a lot of people, man. And people are mad, so people want Roger Goodell to step back in. How fucking crazy is this? Roger Goodell was like, I'm going to a lazy boy and people, they want the bullpen. They're tapping the right forearm, dude. They want, they want Raj to come back. He's got three days. The NFL has three days to appeal on this. Now, he could appeal and, you know, make this thing right in a lot of people's eyes. But he'd probably come out looking at

looking a little bit more autocratic, you know, because that was the point, like to break up the monopoly on justice in the NFL. And ironically, the first time we have to do something like this, we're like, no, we want Roger back. So nobody wins, dude. The fans don't win, right? It's one week into this thing. Like, this is supposed to be the most mindless time to watch TV, man. As a fan, right, you want to just focus on your team. This is the time of the season where it's all sunshine and rainbows and everybody's team to win the Super Bowl. But you got to cut back to studio for NFL employees to incredulously talk about this thing all day. Like how awkward is this? I work for the NFL. I work for NFL TV. And I can't even get behind this thing. I'm not saying me, but I'm

saying a lot of these people on TV. Like a lot of people today are just scratching their heads and a lot of the coverage is devoted to this thing. And it's ugly. So nobody wins. Podcasters don't win, fans don't win. Nobody wins. And how do we get here? I mean, I talked to about how Roger Goodell had to exit stage left and now he might have to come back into the ballgame. But Sue Robinson, she had sufficient evidence to suspend Deshaun Watson because of three things. Number one, well, first off, she said this is the most egregious thing that the NFL's ever investigated along the lines of sexual assault, right? Secondly, she said that Deshaun Watson has to, for the rest of his career, which could be 10, 15 years, as a private citizen,

Deshawn Watson's going to have to limit massage therapy to club directed sessions and club approved therapists for the duration of his career. He's essentially a fucking kid now, dude, with good reason. Sue Robinson is like, we can't trust. This guy can't walk into massage envy, dude. This guy walks into massage envy, they pull the fucking red thing, fire alarm. They pull that thing. He's got to go get a massage at Brookstone now.

Okay, like that's what Sue Robinson is saying. But yet he can make $45 million. And the thing that pisses me off is I'm an NFL football player, former. So idiots start thinking that's what we're all like. Like we're literally children, right? And we are in a lot of ways, but I'm not a sexual predator. I can be trusted to walk into massage envy, dude. Okay?

Not all of us are like that. In fact, very few, if any people I've ever heard of have needed 66 massage therapists over a span of two years, let alone over a decade long career. I played 11 years in the NFL. I can count on two hands the people that I got massaged by. Probably, right?

And I was much shorter than Deshawn Watson. Okay? I played a fucking four-eye in St. Louis. So my back hurts. Even today, I got a massage today. And I had my people. Here's the way it works, guys. For people out there wondering, is that normal? Like, there was a bar graph of how many masseuses,

you know, that a player solicited a service from over the course of their career. And I'm talking a career. Deshawn Watson's off the page in just two years. He's like two feet above the top of the page. 66 is absurd. The way this thing works is in camp, there's almost 100 guys in camp. Everybody's sore. NFL teams usually hire a couple of massage therapists that are with them year-round,

but they're kind of like independent contractors. Maybe you have one or two people that work on staff with the training the training room, but generally there's not enough hands to go around. Like, you know, there's a ton of guys and not enough time on the table. There's not enough massage therapists. So you got to go out and solicit some outside help. But this is absurd. Okay. I had somebody who was flying from Seattle. Okay, shout up Nicole. She worked a lot on Seahawks. She worked on some other teams, but like, it was all about word to mouth. It was very professional. She had her, you know, her business. and you got her number through another teammate or somebody on a different team,

like there's checks and balances here. Like I'm not going on Instagram looking for bodywork. And I know it was a pandemic and that sort of thing. But you're telling me you can't find a single massage therapist in Houston. One of the biggest metropolitan cities in the world? The world, man. I think Houston's up there. There's plenty of sore people in Houston.

A lot of people with bad backs. What's the BMI in Houston? not take shots, but people are people, you want to talk about fanny packs. There's a lot of people with L5S1 issues in Houston. There's a lot of people that need massages in Houston. You're telling me you couldn't find a single like fucking above board professional person to hit your wagon to, man. You needed 66 DMs to get rubbed down, but you got a problem.

So if you're at home wondering like, is this normal? It's not normal. Okay. How do we get here? You know, she thought. there was enough evidence to suspend him for six games. And I don't think it's enough, you know, there's acknowledgement of wrongdoing in the sentencing, right?

There's acknowledgement of wrongdoing in the summary of how she got where she got, right? She called it egregious. She says the most egregious thing, the NFL is investigated from a sexual assault standpoint. And listen, there's going to, like I said, to, you know, I want to count, I want to include everybody in this, like there are no winners. Like, even people that thought that Deshaun Watson deserved no repercussions. they're mad, right? Browns fans are mad. People that have a confirmation bias from day one are mad. Like, if you're a conspiracy theorist and you think the Texans intentionally torpedoed,

the trade value of somebody that they desperately wanted out of the building all the while, exposing themselves to investigation, to settlements, to the revelation that they were providing NDAs for massages. They were literally providing NDAs for fucking massages. okay here are the things he's accused you think you think Houston was like yeah let me let me get let me call Tony Busby up and and and we'll take care of our problem with Deshawn Watson that way like if you believe that I'm not addressing you I'm talking to the other people listening to this podcast right now if you believe that that because Texas wouldn't take this this case to trial in Houston if you're like a hard line legal person, then maybe you're not hearing any of this. But I'm just, with all this

smoke, I believe there's fire. And I don't believe you need the court of law to tell you when something's fucked up. And when you look at that Texas deal, when you look at Houston at least, I mean, there are two counties where they tried to take this thing to trial, right? In Houston, the DA there and Tony Busby have a really bad relationship. There's something over, you know, some sort of a DUI settlement. She even tried to reopen the case. Like there's a contentious relationship there. I wouldn't be surprised if that factored into it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it's just the fact that sexual assault doesn't have a really high conviction rate. It's really hard to prove. The second thing that I'm hearing a lot this week is, well, he hasn't been charged of a crime. Okay. Then have O.J. Simpson do your bar mitzvah. You know what I'm saying?

I'm sorry. There's just, I'm all about innocent until proving guilt. you, but I'm also not a fucking idiot. And there's just a lot of evidence here. I mean, even for you to say there's no evidence, you're just completely missing the entire story. And the fact that the DA in Houston wouldn't bring it to trial doesn't mean anything to me. I mean, it means something to me, but it doesn't mean that I should, you know, be ignoring all. Sexual assault is really hard to prove. It's really hard to prosecute. It's really hard to bring to trial, 20% of sexual assaults are even reported. And once you get to court, the lag in

reporting, the lag in bringing the allegation to the surface, oftentimes gets used against women, which obviously really unfair, because if you put yourself in the shoes of a woman who's been sexually assaulted, there's a number of reasons why you might not want to bring that to light anyways. Number one, maybe you don't want your workplace to know about it. Number two, your family. You might not have time to spend in court, you know, you might not have the resources to bring that to trial. I mean, there's a whole lot of issues at play here for women that we don't even think about and now tack on top of it, you know, the general discomfort of doing this, but the fact that you're levying a claim against maybe the best football player in the state of Texas.

you know well this is before micha parsons was in the league but this guy is a fucking phenom and he's wildly famous and all of a sudden you're going to be mixed up in the national news cycle you know all of the sudden everybody knows your business and the chances of you getting a conviction are not even that hot uh the chances of it getting to trial are not even that high and i think uh i think that's the tough part for women here and that's why i'm not really worried about the fact that he wasn't convicted of a crime. Okay? Just doesn't move me.

I'm sorry. And if you're sitting here thinking, if it was this person, if it, no, all people, dude, if any person, I don't care if they're square circle, triangle, white, black, whoever it is, fill in the blank, this many accusations, this much evidence, this much inadvertent admission of guilt, you know, I just, I'm sorry.

So what does it say about the NFL? I don't know. Y'all were asking me before we started this thing. What did it say about the NFL? I don't know that says as much about the NFL. It says something about, you know, corporate America. And I'm not scurting the issue because you can say all the really negative things you want about the NFL, like, and I'm not going to fight you on it. But I think this is bigger than the NFL.

This is something is the theme that repeats itself in society. We will forgive people who are very good at, what they do, who we like, depending on their status, what have you done for me lately? And this guy happens to be one of the best people on the planet when it comes to doing one of the most important jobs in sports, period, in one of the biggest sports businesses on the planet. The NFL is a titan. And this guy is one of the most important players in that game.

And so what it says to me is when I look at those fans, the first day of Deshaun Watson's able to report because if you're not suspended more than a year, you can go to practice. So as I was watching inside the NFL or NFL training camp today, you know, one of the things I saw was fans mobbing Deshaun Watson. Those guys, those fans don't work for the NFL. Those are people, right? You know, the players that play for for the Browns, I mean, they're NFL employees, but they're, I don't think of them as like NFL brass. They're all going to stand in the huddle with DeShon Watson. Some of them might go as far as even forgetting it. Some of them might be telling themselves there's nothing wrong with this guy's behavior.

Players are going to play with him. Fans are going to cheer for him. People are going to buy his jersey. I saw him pass out a Gatorade towel today. Somebody took a towel from Deshawn Watson. I mean, holy shit, man. We're already, he's already, the body's still warm. Like the suspension was just handed down and he's handed a towel out.

And of course, if you don't know, one of the things that he did in a massage. which is also wildly irregular. Oftentimes when you go to a massage parlor or you're soliciting a massage as an NFL player, you have to get under a sheet. Like some people might get naked and get under the sheet, right? Because it's easier to access every muscle and you can kind of manipulate the sheet

to act as like underwear or shorts or whatever. Fuck, you make overalls with a sheet. But Deshawn didn't want a sheet. DeShan didn't want a towel. Deshawn wanted a towelette. And he's out there the first day of training camp, he throws his gatorate. I just, and maybe that that's evidence that he doesn't think about this stuff.

But like whether it's your favorite athlete, your favorite actor, your favorite musician, the head of a corporation, somebody who has something to offer, right, that we find valuable. I think as a society, we often kind of look the other way. And we're all guilty of it, right? But this is like in your face, right? This is in your face. And people are still going to buy his jersey. People are still going to cheer for him.

People are still going to play with him. The owner's apology sucked, right? It's an indictment to me on society. And you can tell me that it's just about the NFL, and I could have an uncomfortable conversation about certain NBA players that have done things in the past have been right back out on the court. I know that oftentimes the NBA is juxtaposes this perfect league

where it's player run and nobody does anything wrong and blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you want to just boil it down to the NFL, you're missing the mark. This is a societal issue. Right down to the way, we almost seem to dismiss a lot of these accounts because these ladies are massage therapists, man. Imagine this happened repeatedly in a doctor's office. And I know that I know that this is a totally different hypothetical, but I'm just saying it feels like a lot of this is framed in the fact that like, and Deshaun, in my opinion, knew this when he calculated these scenarios. I mean, these are powerless women who are sharing a room with him alone. And he's ass naked and he's covered by a towel that's fucking six inches wide.

Okay. That's not going to do it for me, that towel. I don't know about the Sean. But like, it's like you're walking in with the, like, everything about it raises an alarm for me. And it's just sad to me a little bit. that we're just going to have to watch this cat. Because I really wanted to root for the Browns, right? I really want the Browns to,

and there's players on the team I like and that sort of thing. But it's going to be hard, man. It's going to be really hard. But I will compartmentalize it because the NFL is too big for me to turn it off. The NFL is vital to me making money. You know, if I was really up in arms, I'd protest the NFL and turn off all the games. But I don't think it's just an NFL problem.

I think it's a societal problem. The way we treat women is, it's unacceptable. And there's another instance of that. And the way we kind of dismiss all these allegations is just the mental gymnastics we're able to do as people, as sports fans, is wild to me. So I don't know what else to say about that. But I guess I'll talk about it in three days when Roger Goodell either comes down with an appeal or lets it kind of rest.

But that's just, it's just ugly. It sucks. There's no winners. in this to Sean Watson thing. All right, let's talk to Lovie Smith, shall we? If you're here in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Tennessee, or right here in Virginia, and you haven't tried the WinBed app yet, I have great news for you. WinBet is now offering $200 in free bets for new users.

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In Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey, and Virginia, call 1-800-Gambler. And in Michigan, 1-800-2707-1-17-8-9. Tennessee, y'all too. 1-8009-9-9. Chris, what's going on, man? Coach, how you doing, man? That's good. Congratulations.

I'm excited. I'm excited to watch a coach. Hey, we're popped up. You know, these opportunities, Chris, you know, they don't come along three times sometimes, you know. And so we're blessed, man. Well, I think you're doing something right. That's why they keep coming up. So, yeah, congrats, man. Heard a lot of great things about you.

It's nice talking to you. You know, Chris, the only thing that I question your choice on a few things. Oh, I got to get this out. I just got to start it, you know. Yeah. You consider Jay Glaze your friend. I know it like family to you now. Yeah, no, no.

I know you're a smart man. You and I both have fell into that same trap, you know? Yes, yes. When the phone rings it says, Jay Glazer, you know, I take a long, hard look at it. You know what I mean? So that's funny. No, I mean, but I appreciate the time.

And I just want to start and ask you a little bit about camp because, you know, it's that time of year. And when you're retired, I'm thinking about all this stuff I don't have to do anymore. and, you know, the meetings, the two of the two of days, well, y'all don't really have them anymore. Hey, here's my question. Do coaches get sore in camp, man? You're a former player.

You know, I see Dan Campbell doing up downs. I see, you know, Vrable getting on the bags. Do you get sore during camp? I do, but, you know, Chris, I live in Arizona, too, so I was in Scottsdale for 30 days. Every day I got what I done in the sun, you know, so, you know, as I've gotten old, I've kind of changed up what I do. You know, I push up and I walk every day is what I do. So you got to come in in decent shape.

And do you get sore? Yeah, you do. I mean, it's just, you know, you're moving. You know, I keep track of my steps. And just like the players do, I do. But as you mentioned, I mean, there was a time, Chris, when we had two days and four players, we went nine on seven both practices. Yeah.

So it's a different day now for sure. Yeah. No, it is. It's crazy. And, you know, I got to see a little bit of the old CBA. I was one of the last, you know, those classes that had to go to work with, with what I would call old NFL veterans. They're different, right?

I mean, hasn't it changed a little bit? Like, what it means? When you have a veteran in today's game, you know, I feel like that means some because it's really hard to keep bets around. You know, like, what do you think about the way the games change and, like, you know, the age of the guys in the locker room and being able to rely on leadership? Well, I think, first off, it's a must. And I love young athletes coming through, but to me, you're not going to have a successful

team unless you have some guys that have been through it to know how to lead. And, you know, young players, they want to make it in the league. They'll follow you if you're doing it the right way. So we had that in our locker room, both sides of the football. You know, real men to take care of their business and do it a certain way. And as a football coach, I have to take care of them too. Watch, you know, they're not going to get as many reps. And we're going to watch a little bit on what they do.

Their role is going to be a little bit different for us. You know, we have the Rex Burkheads. We have the Dairy of the Worlds, Mario Addison. Brandon Cooks, and our guys leave the right way. Mario Addison, really underrated player. Yeah. When he came out of college, I was a head coach for the Barraiser, and we brought him in as a free agent.

Loved him, and it's just amazing if you're a ball player and you just talk about handling your business. I think Mario maybe 13 years or so this year too. Just done it the right way, and you got to see him now. But you can't tell he's a veteran. and by the way, he practices. He's the one. Our older players are the ones that's leaving everything, you know?

Yeah. Well, because, you know, you need that. Like I said, I mean, when I walked into a locker room in 2008 in St. Louis, I was lucky to have Leonard Little, you know, Fred Robbins, Leroy Glover, like all those guys over the course of a couple years, not to mention a bunch of guys in secondary and that sort of thing, that had been in the league over 10 years. And, you know, it's just if nobody's there to teach these young guys the right habits, you know, by example, it's going to be hard.

What's your style when it comes to like, is there any bit of you that's like, hey, generally, I want to read you a quote by, but this will help me ask this question here. This was this was Brian Erlacken. I'm paraphrasing. It's great for football to have, you know, love you be back as a coach, great leader of men, whole team looked up to him. one of those guys that you're scared to let down, not because you're afraid to get in trouble, but because of the type of man he is. And I think that's the right kind of leadership style. But do you ever have to reach into your bag and scare anybody?

Well, really you get to a point, Chris, where if there's respect, you know, you shouldn't have to do that very often. Right. And you set the standard on how we're going to do things. And when I talk about veteran leadership, they know the standard. And it's just not me being the, I can't be. the only cop on the team. You know, we had right leaders. A lot of things before I can get there, guys are taken care of it. Yeah. And eventually when you, when you establish how you do things,

and we got to that position in Chicago, uh, that we never compromise it. And it's amazing when you let people know exactly what's acceptable on, on how, what they'll do. They follow. I've never had, you know, if it took Chris, cursing out players and all that, I wouldn't be in the game. because I don't think you coach on fear. But what I found is that smart football players, if you know what you're talking about, and you let them know the reason why they'll do anything you ask him to do. That's been my time in football in general,

and that's the way we run our program. What do you think of I asked one of your vets, what Lovey Smith's pet peeves are? What do you think they would say? I think first off they're going to talk about, you know, around here we do. We talk about showing up first. And that is just not being here.

That's showing up, Chris, old school, you show up on time. You know, the first step to getting better is to show up ready to go on time. They're going to say, I'm not going to compromise it. I would hope they would talk about the fundamentals on how you do things. We're not going to deviate from this. And I would hope the guys would talk about my belief in how we do things. And the result, I know the ending on how this. this is going to play out.

They stone first, coaching staff, everybody's been vetted. And then player-wise, if we get the right kind of players, that's left up to us. I know what the ending is going to be like. Everywhere I've been, it's been that way. Times when we didn't get it done, some of those things didn't happen. And I love the position we're in now being the right way here. Take the listeners who are younger back through a schedule like in the 90s of a training camp. you know, before things got easier.

Like, what, how long, you know, were people in the hotel? How long were you on the practice field? I'm glad you asked this question. Yeah. Yes. First of all, I think the rules now say you have to get players off once every seven days. It's amazing. It's awesome.

We had, we gave also six days, seven of the days we're going to pretty much, six of the days we're going to pretty much be in practice. We would start off. early in the morning, practice would, you know, let's say 11 o'clock practice, whatever. Our days, we would, you know, lifting in the morning, our days would end. Our meetings ended at 10 o'clock each night. Think about that. Practice-wise.

So we'd have a early morning practice, late afternoon practice, both to our practices. So that was training camp. Chris, for us right now, this is what we do. Three days on, a day off. I mean, you should be able to hang, shouldn't you be able to handle that? You should. And I think that's why your veterans are, you couldn't, you can't tell their veterans. Is they like, you know, this, this shit's easy compared to.

And really, something else. Eventually, Chris, if you have a bunch of guys, you got to bed check them every night and do all of that stuff, you're not going anywhere. Yeah. Our veterans. Our veterans, our rookies have to stay in a hotel. Our veterans go home each night. Yeah. So we're giving our guys, we have a leadership group, they say,

Lovie, let us run the locker room. We'll take care of everything. If guys start acting up, we know we have to do some other thing. Same way, Chris, the night before game. I mean, to me, for you to play your baseball, what's most comfortable for you in a hotel room in a bad bed or you're a bad? I'm going to let our guys stay in their beds. Yeah.

Now, we have care of few. If somebody gets caught, that's different. We have rules. If you break a rule, maximum fines right away. There's got to be punishment when we screw up. But the guys that are real pros are going to treat them like me in an accident, you don't have behaved that way. I think I remember Jim Hasla, one of my many coaches in St. Louis,

but my guy, Jim Hasla, he gave us, I think, the night before game, games, we got to stay at home. And just what you said is, you know, I really think if you're a pro, you're going to handle your business, right? Yes. You know, and that's on the coaches and the GMs to put together a team of people. You don't have to worry about acting like children, right? It is that way. And whatever makes you comfortable, some of our players, they love you. I got a lot of people at home. Hey, we get your room. Come to the hotel. But, hey, you know, sometimes when you're way night before. Like we have a few of our guys with young children.

It's everything okay at the house. But if I'm there sleeping and know that they're saying, that's putting me in the best frame of mind to get ready for the next day. Yeah. So these things that we do, it's just common sense things that we do. And eventually you get to game day, we know what we need to be able to do then. Do you, is it so easy now that you don't throw bones anymore? You know how we used to say, hey, throw us bone, coach?

You don't take guys in the movies now. You're like, well, we've been at work two days. Yeah, you know, we throw them, you have to eventually. Everybody wants a surprise, right, Chris? Like last day of mini-camp, guys ready to go. I let them stretch. But then, you know, we pulled the buses up. We went to Top Golf.

So you have to throw them a bone every once in a while. After you put in a certain amount of work, I'm going to say that. Yeah, yeah. All right. So training camp pranks. I don't know if you were big on them. Jeff Fisher was big on training camp pranks. Like keep things light.

But my brother got to Chicago. This was after you. But there were still some guys that you coached there. And his first couple nights, he ended up with a tarantula in his bed. And to this day, he's got a couple people in mind. I want to read a couple of names. I want to read you three names that are the suspects here. And you tell me who you think it might have been.

All right. Lance Briggs was still there. We got Roberto Garza, and he's from Texas, and you know they have big spiders down there. And then here's my prime prospect here. And I just did a live watch with the guy, and he'd be the type that would do it. Charles Peanut Tillman. What do you think put the tarantula out of those three guys in my brother's badge? Well, I could, okay, if everyone would know Charles, we could easily see Charles.

And Charles has done a few things like that before. to keep it light. I'm going to also say that Lance Briggs, both of those guys, you know they're going to show up every day at practice, not going to miss anything, going to play a certain way, but they do like to have a good time at the right time. Yeah. But why I would maybe think about Roberto is, you're right,

he's from down here, and most of the time when something a prank is done to an offensive lineman, you've got to be in the club. You've got to be one offensive linemen to even attempt to do that. So you've got to be fearless because my brother was 6, 7, 330. So I think the only guy that I think had the balls to do, it might have been Roberto. But, you know, now we've got Tillman's in the FBI. He's sneaky. You know, he.

So I had to ask that question. Okay. So the first thing I noticed about what you guys did last year defensively was the takeaways. You know, I think you guys did an amazing job of that. I think you were top 10 in takeaways. Interception percentage was top five. that's kind of been a thing. How do you make that change in a team's culture?

Because being ball-aware is a whole thing that coaches always talk about. But how you actually apply that pressure to make that change? First, just, you know, Chris, establishing what is important? I mean, what's winning defensive football? I mean, people say the best defense, what is it? Toll yardage, which is one of the most overrated things that there is. But for us, it's not a good defensive game. name. Number one, our number one goal is a score, just like offense. But from there, it's

defense. We preach it constantly, and we practice. An incomplete pass is a form of recovery. Every snap, we should see guys punching the football. And so that's what we do. We've put such an emphasis on it. It's not, Chris, about, hey, we want to take away drill to start practice. It's every step, you're just constantly coaching that up. And our, Our history, since about 2000 and one in St. Louis, we've had over 30 every year and as high as 52. So there's something about that. And once you get guys buying into that, and Chris, it not only helps your defense, but it helps your offense. Yeah, getting them to football, but offense, it's about ball security, knowing that every snap, somebody's going to be yaken, pulling the ball.

it makes our guys carrying a ball have better security also. Yeah, and it gets them pissed off too sometimes in practice. And that's a good thing, especially on training camp. Well, let me ask you that, then. Where are you on training camp fights? Because I've been a whole bunch of different places where they had different. Funny you would ask that. The day was the first one that we had.

How was it? Well, okay, fights. First off, a couple things. You know, Chris, when you and your brother fight, you're not going to, you know, cheap shot him. You don't fight like men. So I tell the guys, if you just have to fight, you better fight him like you would fight your brother.

And if y'all still need to sell something, the three of us are going to an end of facility on our own and we'll sell it. But in games, you get thrown out of games. If you get in a fight in a game, you're hurting our team. So if you see a fight in our practice, which we had today, start running, start jogging. You got all that energy? we'll work it off a little.

Not anymore we don't. Exactly. Hey, after that fight, we're gassed. So that's why we don't put up with that. You start fighting and you just feel like you have to. I'm talking about from Laramie Tonsel to Malik Collins, Jerry Holm, whoever it is, that's how we do it. Yeah, yeah, because it's true.

You're gassed after you fight. That's the most gassed you'll ever be on a football field is fighting in August. Yeah, and they know this a different way. You know, they know. He noticed, make some plays, and the tension will come to you then. Tough guys, you're tough as guys normally don't fight. You know, they know better, you know? They don't have to.

They don't have to. Yeah. So Davis Mills, man, he's one of, you know, my favorite young players in the league. Yes. I think, you know, I think I heard you say this, and I agree with this assessment. He'd have been easily the first quarterback drafted this year. Absolutely. You know, what an asset for you all to have this.

this high pick this year. You know what I mean? It's kind of like having one grandfathered in. What have you seen from him? And what did you see from him that made you want to make him a captain? I heard you talk about that as well. Well, I last year, Chris, I'm the defensive coordinator. Tyrod's our quarterback.

So, you know, he's going against the number one defense. He's running a look squad. So I got a chance to see him then. That's when the relationship first started. then preparing and then get in a position where he's the guy. And if you look at how he played at the end of the year, there were a few bright things that happened to us, for us. He was one of them.

He can make all the throws. He's one of the guys. The guys, they like him, want him to do well, and would do what he asked him to do. So I've just seen every time the building has been open, he's been in it. So he's done all those things that make you want to follow him. So I buy into him. Then you have to move, now he's moved into that role. I'm the guy, man.

I know I'm a second year guy, but I'm the guy. And we've just watched the way he's worked. He's protecting the football. He's a better athlete also than he gets credit for. We played against, you know, all the young quarterbacks in the league, we played against them last year, good players. He's in that mix. And I'm going to bet that he's going to be one of them that's going to go to the top.

Does he do extra neck work in the in the in the in the it looks that way it looks that way and that's why he's like I mean he's one of the guys too yeah you know you have to be accepted by your offensive line number one they believe in you he's one of the guys yeah yeah yeah so excited about what he's going to do for us do you think that that your your quarterback has to be I mean there has to be leadership there has to be respect do you think the quarterback has to be one of the top three leaders on the team. Like, you've coached a lot of teams.

Absolutely. I've just never seen it. Okay, if you, you know, a lot of times when it's a young quarterback, maybe he's a rook and he becomes, you don't want him to be in that role. Right. But he has to be in the leadership role. There's no way around it. I think the same thing with your Mike Landbacker.

He's your Mike Landberg, he's making all the calls and he's not your guy. You're not going anywhere. Quarterback, Mike Landberg, they have to be in that role. A part of their. the things that you're looking for, it's got to be on who they are. We have that in Davis-Mill. And then it doesn't hurt that he's a Stanford guy. I know, you know, Chris, all of the tests you did well.

I mean, you're known as a smart. It doesn't hurt to have a guy with that intellect also, you know, at both of those positions. Because they have to be. Davis-Mills has another offense as well as PEP. He does. And that would definitely be the case for it. I also think just, you know, one of the most important kind of intelligence for a football player is emotional intelligence, you know, which I think you have as a coach, right?

Like understanding people and, you know, being able to relate to people. Like, and if you have that and the intelligence, like that, that's what makes a leader, in my opinion. That is definitely the case. And, you know, a lot of times, you know, people say, hey, leadership, and he's a leader, he's just screaming, yeah. No, it's got to be substance to what you say when you open your mouth. and that is Davis. He's not going to doll cuss the guys and all of that. He's going to take care of his business,

but if he has to let somebody know something, he'll do that. And I've seen different guys, and these are the kind of guys, I'm talking about as a quarterback position, that can bring the team together. No question. You know, Matchy's been dealt a lot of, you know, tough breaks. You know, I really feel for him.

I know this is in the football issue. I mean, you know, it's bigger than football, and I'm sure you guys are supporting him. How do you support somebody like that? I mean, because obviously he's not in the training room, but how do you make that commitment and say, hey, we're with you every step of the way? It's such a unique issue. I know that David Quisenberry had an issue down there in Houston as well and had to go through some treatment.

How do you approach that as a head coach? The first thing we did, Chris, was let him talk to the team. you know, to just go over, hey, guys, this is what I'm going through. Even though I'm not going to be there, as often as I like right now, just know what I'm doing. While you take care of business, just know what I'm doing. And for them to know, it's leukemia. He's in a battle.

We understand that part of it. But if you've been around John, he's followed some things in his life. And if you have something like that going on, first off on where you are, we're in Houston. MD Anderson, some of the best, some of the best, doctors around are right here in town. So with the team knowing what the plan is, no different in football guys. Here's our plan on how we're going to win football. It's been established the plan that John is going to have this year. And as a team, as coaches a part of the team, support, being there,

reaching eye to him as much as we possibly can. And in time, they'll be able to see him around here also. Yeah. Well, we hope he gets better soon. What about these running backs? in this division, man. I mean, like, Eric Henry, Jonathan Taylor, and the guys in Jacksonville are not too bad either.

I know. How does that shape the way you guys, does it shape the way you practice? Would you practice that anyways with your background? I mean, the game's changed so much, but it doesn't seem like it's changed

in your division. No, it hadn't. And Chris, our defense, I feel, is set up to stop teams that run the football for herself.

We're a gap sound defensive. football team. Right. And so you start with stopping the run. And you're right. Derek Henry, you know, he's bigger than most of the defense. You know, he weighs more than most of our defensive linemen. But you have to know where you need to hit big guys. But just being a, with our concept of how we play defense, single gap, extra guy in the box to stop the run. We would rather those teams, whether it be Indy with Jonathan Taylor or of course, Tennessee, with Henry of just taking, we got to stop the run,

committing to stopping the run, just putting more pressure on the outside. But when you're in this division, as you say it, we're in Chicago, you know, black and blue division, whatever you're going to call it. You know what it was going to be about. Tough guy. Yeah.

And that's what we have down here. That's what you need. No question. It's a little frozen in time down there. And I can remember the game changed from even when I got in 08 to the end of my career. I'll never forget towards the end of my career running sideways half the game and the run game.

You know, it's like when, you know, when I was in the NFC West, they ran power, they ran calendar, they ran all that stuff. They don't run it anymore. So do you remember being in Chicago or being in Tampa or the various places you've been like a running back or two that kept you up at night the most?

Well, you know, those days, man, when I first came into league, yeah, that's easy. when I was in Tampa first go around, Barry Sanders was in Detroit. Different. And when we went to Chicago, when I went to Chicago, Adrian Peterson, he came into the league. So those running attacks just seemed like everywhere I've been, there's been a man at the running. I know nowadays, you know, we're going farther and farther away from the running game. A lot of teams are spread out, throw the ball.

You know, you can't get noticed unless you can throw the ball, catch the ball, all of that. Back in the day, it was about everybody had a guy that you had to deal with. That's why right now, AFC South seemed like that's the case. And we mentioned Andy. We mentioned Tennessee, but we're a little bit more by committee, and Jacksonville will be a little bit on the same, but both are also committed to the run. No question. So, you know, I think it's really cool looking back at that Super Bowl.

made it to in Chicago. I mean, I know you came up short and everything, but you're the first black head coach to, you know, by a few hours to go to a Super Bowl. And then Tony follows you and I know you guys have a relationship and that sort of thing. Like, what did that mean? And then also, you know, what do we do to fix the problem?

Because there's not enough representation in pro football. And we had eight coaches a few years ago, eight head coaches and it feels like it just, I don't know what happened. So, yeah, well. With your history, you know, in that game and what that meant to you and seeing all that, like what do we do from here? Well, first, you know, you know, Chris just growing up, I didn't, I want to be a coach.

It helps a lot, you know, when somebody wants to be a defensive end, that they, they've seen you do it before. Yeah. And they look like you. You know, growing up, I didn't have those role models. you know, I saw Tom Landry on the sideline. That was my perception of a coach. After time, there were a few assistants that we had. I didn't have a black coach that I played for until I got to college.

But you get into it and you get it, there's an opening. I was the only black coach on staffs for a lot of years. And things start to change a little bit. I just felt like when I got an opportunity in every black coach around, and say, we need to do a good job to bring more opportunities for others. As I start going up through the ranks, though, there are enough people out there. You're bringing attention to it that say, hey, this is wrong, and I'm going to do everything I can to try to change that.

And that's how it happened a little bit for me. And as you mentioned, when I did get a chance, Tony and I got a chance to be on that stage. That kind of validated that this can be okay. I mean, there's a long time we knew that we could coach, but that validated it a little bit. So what can we do? The pressure I feel is to do well.

I've been blessed. The Mike Tomlins, the guys with an opportunity. We need to do well. On why it has changed, Chris, that's a misnomer to me. Because society seems like we come a long ways, but in the end it comes down to do you feel comfortable

with a black man leading your organization. And sometimes I look for me, since I've gotten three opportunities, I don't feel the true, I don't get the full just of what all this happened. And I don't have any answers except for what I try to do with my staff. You look at our staff, we have black representation. I don't want to hear this where it's not qualified guys, all of that.

There are. So to me, trying to get guys in the pipeline. and then putting men in position for them to show you who they are. Help Hamilton, a black coach, will call offensive plays. He coaches the quarterbacks. All the position that I've heard that we're not supposed to be able to do, we're going to show people that that's not the case and put pressure on people when we do well to hire more of us.

Yeah, yeah. And you said it like the people in the passing game, quarterback coaches, linebacker coaches, it seems like they try to protect those pipelines. Yes. It's intentional or unintentional. You know, it's been, you know, and I thought there was a big movement away from defensive head coaches a couple years ago.

I feel like, you know, that was a thing for a while. And then we go back to these young quarterback coach phenoms. But you're right. It's like if you don't get the opportunity to grow in that pipeline, it's going to be hard to rise to top. Yeah. And Chris, as you said, I mean, you know, I'm a six or four year. I've seen an awful lot.

Yeah. No, you get in box, all right, and who gets a head job. Well, I'm looking for an offensive guy, quarterback coach. Well, there are not any black quarterback coaches, a whole lot of offense coordinator. So you're not going to get any head football coaches. And you're right. There were more defensive guys in position, but defensive coaches know we want an offensive coach. We've heard all of those different things.

And eventually, though, you have 32 owners. And you need somebody with an open mind that says these people can do it. when you're in the locker room, I mean, how many times, Chris, you say, you know what my teammate is black? A lot of those things don't come up. You just judge a man based on what he can do, but you have to be deliberate. It's got to be intentional about hiring someone.

Well, it just didn't happen. No, you had to make a point of looking beyond that. And it's just not about interviews. You know, I'm going to interview these guys. I know who, no, you got to be real and give people. a chance and I think you'll be surprised at what you can find on people that look a lot of people that look like me. Yeah, amen. I got one last question for you. James Winston, you know, you had some time with him in Tampa. I think you drafted him. Yes. Yeah. I've been really impressed with his maturity.

I think he seems to have grown a lot from a distance from playing him in 2014, one of my last games in St. Louis. Do you remember the game where we had to wear the yellow and y'all had to wear the red? It was a Thursday night game. It was a-oh. Come on. You know I remember that. It didn't turn out well for us. I remember that. Me neither. I was playing on a broken leg. It was terrible. I was awful. But James tripped me going back to me. We all hit it like a 25-yard game and I'm running down the field and I hit the deck and I'm like, what the fuck happened? James is smiling at me. And I love that kid side of him. Like I love that like backyard football side of him, but I know he's had to mature too.

Have you been impressed watching him over the past couple years make these decisions from a career standpoint? Because I think a lot of people rush into the first available job. And I think that was really cool to him to say, hey, I'm going to take a year and learn and reset. Yeah. We have a history together. You're right. I was a head football coach when we picked him with the first pick. So I believe in.

Do a lot of research on it. He can come into a room. He's bright. he's got it and he can make all the throws. You know, when you're a young quarterback coming in the league, there's a lot going on. And sometimes it just doesn't work.

I'm just so excited and glad that he got another opportunity. But when you're a smart guy like James is, we all adjust when things don't turn out exactly the way we wanted them to, maybe the prayers go around. But I know he's in a great situation right now. You know, Dennis, I know, and he's a guy,

and I just believe he's eventually going to be one of the, anything, any and everything you're looking for, and your leader, quarterback, thrower, all of that James has. Yeah, I'm excited to watch him play this year. Coach Smith, I really appreciate the time, and I'm wishing you all the best luck this year. It's going to be fun watching y'all.

Love the way you played the game, Chris. It's great talking with you. Talk to you later. I appreciate it. See, Coach. All right.