Green Light with Chris Long - Lukas Nelson! On New Album 'A Few Stars Apart', Music During The Pandemic, Playing with Neil Young and Working with Bradley Cooper in 'A Star Is Born.'

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

(01:56) - Lukas on Promise of the Real's New Album 'A Few Stars Apart', Being Inspired at Home During COVID and How Philosophy Impacts His Songwriting. (25:45) - Lukas on Opening and Headlining Live Shows and Playing in Intimate Theaters. (33:09) - Lukas on Neil Young's Influence and Favorite Songs. (45:14) - Lukas on Growing Up in a Musical Family and Measuring Success. (54:25) - Lukas on Meeting Bradley Cooper and Writing and Producing Songs for 'A Star Is Born.' Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And I'm looking up in the sky, just tears in my eyes. And then all of a sudden, I enter the sky. And that's my death. Sounds like me watching Tropic Thunder for the first time, Stone. And I laugh so hard. I started having a panic attack. All right. So I got Lucas Nelson here.

He is in, looks like, what is it, Hawaii? Where are you? I am in, I'm in, um, I'm in, in Nicaragua, no, is it El Salvador? No, it is Hawaii, yes. I need help. I need help. Get me out of here.

I'm in Venezuela. I need some diplomatic community. You would. Sometimes I forget where I am, you know. Hey, does that happen for real? Like I remember when I used to like wake up after my heart night's sleep before a game, I'd wake up and be like, what city am I in? Yeah, yeah. It happens all the time still. No, I'm in Maui. I'll never forget that. I love it here in Maui and I grew up here. I went to high school here and Montessori school

growing up, which is just down the road and sort of an Italian alternative style school. But it's pretty popular nowadays. You might know what Montessori. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We've considered it For the boys, do you think that that kind of helped you in some specific way? Because I know it's very different. Oh, yeah. You know, I really think it helped me. You know, I'm, I think that I'm, I'm challenged by conformity. So I tend to, you know, I tend to do things differently.

Lee and and so people, you know, I've always, I've always been special, as they say. I think, I think Montessori school might have kicked me into nonconformity overdrive. I feel like it was might be right. Maybe you're right. Yeah. But I just, I just, I never could sit at a desk. They, they prescribed me. They said I was ADHD when I was a kid.

I just think that I just, I could focus fine, but I just, only. focused on things I liked. You know, so there was that, you know. Oh, I don't know. I think, I don't think I, I think it's a made up disease. I think it's a pharmaceutical company. Well, I have the same made up disease at 36 and that my attention span for things that I'm not interested has never.

Exactly. I think honestly, ADHD or whatever they're calling it is actually a tool. I know that's kind of become like a cliche thing, but I do think it is a tool. whatever they called us as kids, like now we're able to parlay it into healthy lives. Well, the thing is, most of the people that I know that have been diagnosed in that way or that has said that they are that way are the coolest people that I know. Like, I mean, you know. Let me not, let me not fuck that up.

You meant that wasn't cool. So I want to talk to you about your album or rather, I want to hear what you have to say about your because I don't do this a lot and I would imagine this oftentimes might go like I'd tell you what I think about it. I think it's great. That's where I'll stop. What do you want people to know about a few stars apart? Oh, you know, we did the best we could. I love it very much. I mean, we took a lot of time picking our favorite songs. And this is really a songwriter's record. You know, it's something that we wanted just the songs. You know, we didn't want any jamming, any frills, any, any, we just wanted something much in the way that like a really good Hank Williams song or a really good Beatles song from the early days

just really captures the lyrics and the point of the music and the emotion. And so that's, you know, that's what we were going for. We were trying to go for that ancient art of just trying to capture a lot of emotion with a little bit of time. And there's an art to writing a three or four minute song that really touches you. And so that was what we were going for. How do you do that? Because, you know, like whatever you're thinking about, if you're sitting on the porch stone or you're in your own head,

like things seem like naturally self-important, like issues in your life and that sort of thing. And like, how do you bridge the gap between like this is profound to me? Is it going to be profound to the audience? Because that seems like a big leap of faith, right? I mean, sure. I mean, yeah. I think if you get less specific with things,

they tend to be, or ironically, the other way around, you can be very specific with something that everybody, that most people can relate to, whether it be, you know. But I tend to believe that there are sort of universal concepts and universal things that we all go through, especially with matters of the heart. I tend to write about, I mean, we'll be all right, the first song on the record, you know, we all know that the world is chaos around us and that

change is inevitable. But it's sort of how we, how we, how we deal with the change, how we deal with the adversity that is the strength of our characters. And so, you know, I think that the whole record really is about how I have dealt with the never-ending changes in life and sort of and have I've dealt with my growth, how I've dealt with my immaturity. I've dealt with everything. You know, I figured, how am I going to take a snapshot of what I'm feeling right now, which at the time was during the pandemic,

and, you know, everything was just ground to a halt. and I was faced with myself in a way that I hadn't looked at it before. And so I was very cognizant that I was also probably going through something many people were going through. And so what are the universal themes that. And I do think about other people when I write as well. I don't just think about myself. I think about how this can relate. Because when I'm writing, I'm writing with the intention that I'm going to sing it live.

I'm writing with the intention that I'm going to sing it for other people. So I'd like other people to be able to sing it as well with the idea that it's, it's theirs as well. It's the ultimate, you talk about like finding common ground that people can, like almost those little little keys to somebody's consciousness where they're like, oh, that resonates with me. Like the pandemic, I mean, it's stripped us all down. Like, you know, whoever you were, you were challenged in a way that you haven't

been unless you're part of that older generation, you know. In our generation, us dudes in our 30s, we never had to deal with anything like that. And I can imagine just from reading about you and talking to you, like, you don't stop. And I've never stopped. And this was the first time of my life. I stopped. And I had to stop with all the people I loved. And I thought that there was a silver lining there as bad as it was. Oh, there's so many. I mean, you know, pretty much, uh, it's pretty much all golden to me. I mean, except for the fact that people died and people got sick and died, the forced conciliation or reconciliation with oneself, I think is invaluable. It's the gift that I needed because frankly, and I don't know about you, but when I was running hard, hard, hard,

was doing 300 shows a year, traveling all the time for my whole life, really. And, and I couldn't see an end to it. And I remember, like, for some reason, hotel showers or when the most emotion would come out. I'd be sitting in a hotel. I'd be in a shower in the hotel and, like, you know, turning at the holiday in or wherever we were someplace, and I turn on the shower.

And I remember just starting to cry one time. It's like, emotional. And I'm like, why am I crying? I have everything. Everything's great. But then I just, I realized, It's I couldn't see an end to the the constant travel to the constant, also to it.

I felt like I was running like a rat in a wheel. You know, it was like it wasn't like I was, I had, there was so many things in my life at that point that I hadn't put together in a balanced way. It was all in balance. It was all like, well, you know, you just. You've got to be like an Olympic athlete, Lucas, you know. I mean, you really got to, you know, prove yourself, you know, that you, to yourself and to other people, that you know,

that you stand out, you know, that you can stand and be heard, that you're not just the son of somebody, which maybe you can relate to. Oh, yeah. That you have talent, that you have these things. And the people that don't have the opportunities that you have are working 24-7 to get there. The other athletes, I was always an athlete when I was a kid, I was a swimmer and everything, and I knew that at one point I wanted to be in the Olympics. And I knew what it took, I knew the type of training that they do, they give their whole lives to it.

Yeah. And they give their whole lives to what they do. Jimmy Hendricks spent hours and hours and hours and hours and hours, gave his entire life to playing guitar. But he's a good example of, in my opinion, of maybe one. what I thought that I emulated before or that I wanted to emulate, but then I realized that's not what I want to emulate necessarily. I want to emulate my dad. You know, I mean, I want to emulate the ones that have found a way to give their whole lives to it,

but also to be balanced and to live a long time and to go and to stay moving for a long time. And, you know, that takes sort of, you know, being, having a presence of mind. I mean, he got in a kick where he was running every day and a health kick. You know, he got in a health. So what I did when the pandemic hit was I quit everything. I stopped drinking and stopped smoking. I didn't drink very much because I already had a similar experience. Oh, that was the cleanest my liver's ever been.

Yeah, yeah. That's great. Which also gives you clarity of mind because if you're on the booze, like which as musicians, I don't want to assume what your diet's like on the road, but like I figure there's some jack in there. And so like, you know, I think just having that break, not only where you were forced to face your biggest fear, I mean, like I'm saying you, I'm talking about myself as well. It seems like there's a few parallels. For me, it's a treadmill, not a like, you know, you were on the hamster wheel. I was on the treadmill in my head. But neither application has an end. That's the key. Right. And it's just that feeling of like, fuck, when does it stop? And so many things you just said, definitely I identify. And I want to talk about the dad thing too in a second. But like, your dad has to do with this because I understand you guys got to spend some time. I was living with my folks for like five, six months. I came right out of retirement, that perpetual motion, that pressure, that washing machine,

you know what I mean, where you never get a chance to breathe, look in the mirror, work on yourself. And then all of a sudden I'm back home, like I'm a teenager, hanging out with my dad and I'm protecting my dad, right? Like you're probably protecting your dad. Like everybody stay the fuck away from us. Yeah. We're batting down the hatches, man.

and that's a wild time, but I got a lot out of it. And we were in Texas, so, you know, there was a lot of people, you know, that, you know, at the first it didn't even think the thing was real. Right. You know what I mean? And, you know, and so, and there were a lot of people we know that they didn't think that and that, you know, maybe had different ideas of it and everything. So, yeah, we had to protect that, you know.

Yeah, it's a tough time that we'd be. become so plugged into everything. Like this was the first year where it was like, hey, that stimulation is going to get old. You got to look inward a little bit and you got to figure yourself out. And I thought it was really rewarding. And I thought that came across just in a little bit of listening and reading about your album. I love the fact you talked about we'll be all right. You know, like kind of that succumbing to reality. Like Empires of Fall, everything dies. And then the book ending of the album was Smile, which I listened to it five minutes before you popped on, admittedly. Um, might be my favorite one on the whole album.

Is there an intention to bookending the two or, you know, because they both kind of dealt with that same kind of theme, at least in one listen? Well, and that was the sort of the thing, is the acceptance, forgiveness, the idea that, you know, that, you know, you can't change what's going to happen in the world. You can't control what's going to happen in the world, but you can't control how you respond. Right. And there's a difference between reacting and reacting. responding and I may have been I may have been a reactionary person before and now I tend to

take pause before and respond before I act and so I think that that's a real amazing key and especially if you're armed with the tools of of proper response which you know and in in In, you know, that comes from, like, for me, reading about the great thinkers and the great philosophers in life and Marcus Aurelius and, you know, and the Dalai Lama or Desmond Tutu, you know, these people that are, that are, that have certain, there are certain pillars of wisdom that teach us how best to respond in order to eventually. find peace and happiness in life. Did you have pillars before you read up? Like, do you feel like you had a set of, it's funny when somebody asked you like, what's your set of principles? Like at times I've been frozen.

And I'm not unproud of how I live my life, but I don't have enough like, hey, yeah, I got four pillars right here. And that's how I live. It's a roadmap. Did you have those pillars? I started studying my pillars, if you will, when I was about 13 or 14. years old. I was, uh, but I was a, I was a pretty wild kid, you know, I was doing psychedelic drugs by that time. You know, I was like, you know, out there this sort of, I mean, I was at one point

going to school and, uh, you know, doing Tai Chi in the lawn, you know, every, you know, I mean, I was a little bit of a weird kid, uh, as far as, I wouldn't say I was weird. Uh, I, weird in the best way, because weird is actually, no, it's a look up the definition. Different, different, and normal is boring. But I also, you know what, I didn't get into the other crowds, which is the cocaine. I've never done cocaine in my life, you know, and I've never done that kind of thing. It was always about inter-exploration for me. It was always about kind of cultivating, understanding that for my own reasons, I had some pain

and childhood and I had some sort of misery, or if you will, or depression. which goes to show you that you can still have everything outwardly and not have inwardly, you know, because I grew up pretty privileged, but I was still unhappy. And that caused me to think, why am I unhappy? Because I don't get it. And so that was what caused me to start looking at a young age at Siddhartha. And Siddhartha is a great example. Sadarta is a story of the Buddha, of Gautama Buddha, how he was born the son of a prince,

or excuse me, he was born in a princely fashion, a son of a Brahman, which is a very wealthy sort of priest back in the end of day. And then he just decided to leave his sort of wealth and go and search for the answers of life and for the real true source of happiness. And so I chose that type of path when I was young. And as far as the pillars go, the pillars of wisdom, principles, you know, yes, I mean, there are some, but it's not something that you can just readily, I don't believe in creating simple definitions of such a broad concept of like what your, what are your core principles. Here I am feeling the head because I don't have the fuck. No, I don't think you should feel bad about it at all because you know what?

It's about the actions that you make. You know, it's about it's about how do you treat your family around you? It's about how often are you looking towards being a better person? And is that your, and not better in terms of that you need to improve, but better in terms of how you interact with people. You can always improve on your skills of being a human being, not that you're not perfect inside. It's just that there are tools that you can use, I think, in order to learn how wisdom can affect your life in a positive way. Now, I just from briefly meeting you and knowing you and knowing where this conversation has gone,

it strikes me that you probably have already been on that path and maybe you just don't want to put it into words, which is... Well, I'm always on that path. I think one of the hardest lines to walk is if you like pursue self-improvement, if you pursue, if you're not satisfied with who you are, and not in like a beat yourself up way, you know, there's just so much potential you have to exhaust

before you're zapped up wherever you get zapped at the end of this whole thing. You know, and so, you know, know, you feel like you're wasting time. It's easy to feel like you're wasting time and trying to the juxtaposition between a guy who's trying to improve constantly and explore, like kind of like you did, you know, I've always, for a lot of the same reasons, maybe, I mean, you know, like growing up cognizant of the fact that you're privileged and cognizant of the fact that you're not perfect and you're not happy all the time. So what does that say? You know, maybe you need to shed some things. Maybe you need to replace some materials with experiences and people. And not that I wasn't ever into people,

But, you know, I think that's the key in trying to walk that line between, hey, I'm tirelessly trying to improve myself to coach myself without beating myself up for what I am not today. You know what I mean? Totally. And, you know, Alan Watts would say that you don't even need. There is no self-improvement. But I don't believe. I think that's sort of deeper than what we're, because it's sort of like the universal oneness that everything's perfect, perfect. but in the sense that we are all sort of avatars and representations of God or the oneness or whatever you want to call it.

You know, we have our different perspectives. And in that perspective, there are ways that we can go through life in a more groovy way, in a more relaxed way, in a more collected and poised and funny. And, I mean, there's so many things that we forget to laugh often. You know, we forget to, we forget to just remember that life is the cosmic joke, you know, that it's really just like, you know, it's all pretty hilarious. And you get the punchline one day. And you'll get to, hopefully, that's how I want to die. I know exactly how I want to die.

I want to die. I want to die laughing at the most cosmic joke that I've ever heard. when I'm old. I want to be old. You know, I want to be old and I want to just start think of something and then I just start thinking about it and then I start cracking up and I crack up so hard that I just fall on my back and I'm looking up the sky just tears in my eyes and then all of a sudden I enter the sky and that's my death. That's how I want to die. That's the sounds like me watching Tropic Thunder for the first time Stone. And I laughed, I laughed so hard. I had, I started having a panic attack and I had to have my friends on the block three, four times.

So, but yeah, no, man, like, you know, this, it's, it's, it's heavy, you know, like there's a lot of introspection when you're spending a year writing music. It's not automatic that you're not going to be able to write music at home. Were you inspired at home or more uninspired? Was I inspired at home? Yes, yes. But I had friends and family that inspired me, you know. I had a really close friend that we would talk about, we read the Odyssey together. And, you know, and we would talk philosophy and trade podcasts and, you know, listening to Russell Brand and Rogan.

Between Rogan and the Odyssey, whoever you're listening and reading with, you guys are going to get. The thing is, it's a very, you know, I love, I love just having discussions and about, you know, religion and life and, you know, and, and so I, yes, I, I, there, and Marcus Aurelius, if you haven't read meditations, Marcus Aurelius, I, I think that's worth reading. And so, yeah, so that, you know, during that time, I had a lot of inspiration from, from the, from the, from, from, the poetry I read, whether it was poetry in conversation or poetry and actual poetry, you know. You know, so I think that that life itself can be poetry and how you, how you sort of, your perspective on life is what is, is sort of defines which doors of inspiration get opened.

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you know it, and maybe you already have been in a setting with a bunch of people and they're hanging on your every word. But you're going to be playing, you know, probably songs for your new album. And I see the tour dates. By the way, if you're listening in the Virginia area, D.C., Lincoln Theater, October 24th, Richmond at the National. I will be there. I will see you there. Yeah. Yeah. So there are going to be dates. probably near you. But it's got to be, it's got to be a little bit of an unnerving thing, or is it to think like, fuck, dude, there's going to be a full stadium. And I'm going from zero to 100 miles an hour. Well, that's very kind of you. But I doubt there'll be many stadiums in my future.

But there will be theaters, full on theaters. I like theaters better. I kind of have a habit on here of conflating words. But like, yes, I would rather see you at the National, though, than like Richmond in Coliseum, though, just to be honest. Definitely. Well, yeah, the sound is better and it's more intimate. Yeah. But, you know, we opened for the Rolling Stones a couple times and Zach Brown band that, you know, at the football stadiums and Fenway Park and all that and, and, and, you know, those, that's, there's something to be said about that energy. And the big, the biggest show I ever did was with Neil Young when we, when we were his band, we, we, we were doing. desert trip, which was amazing.

And that's actually how Bradley Cooper saw me. And we went into Starsport, but from there. But, but yeah, I like, to me, the most fun is our gigs like the Ryman and the Red Butte Gardens, which is already sold out. We're going to play that one soon. And then the Ryman is going to sell out too. And then we have the Austin City Limits Moody Theater, which is a great. And these are all like 3,000 seeders, you know?

And that's like just a perfect size. It's perfect. Because everybody's got a great seat. The sounds awesome. It feels real. No pun intended. Like it feels like a real thing and it's intimate. And like, yeah, I've been to 100 concerts, but I could probably count the stadium ones on like one hand.

And I'm not trying to be a hipster. It's just like fucking I don't feel like, you know, but there is probably a draw to, you know, backing Neil Young or you guys didn't do a stadium necessarily, but touring with Zach Brown and seeing 80,000 people. But it's probably got to be a very different experience. It is. It's more of like, I don't know if you're a surfer, but. Sharks fucking it up for me, dude.

They're just encounters, though, as of this week, though. Changing the language around shark attacks. They're shark encounters. Oh, are we changing? Is it Shark Week this week? Yeah, and we've rolled out in 2021 fashion that we are changing the name around what it's called when a shark bites a chunk out of your ass. And I love sharks.

Don't get me wrong, but they're attacks. I think we should call an attack and attack. I don't, I don't really, that doesn't make sense to me. Like, what are we trying to? Yeah. We've been talking about this all week on the pod, so I'm really glad that you're going. That sounds like a campaign by, you know, beach resorts around the world to get people Exactly, dude. Hey, you're thinking on the next level there.

No, no, that sounds like, yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit if we're going to be real. I mean, a shark encounter is what my buddy and I are my, yeah, my buddy and I were having when we were diving a couple months ago, we saw a little white tip reef shark and it was like, oh, we've encountered a shark. If the thing turned around and get me in a face, it'd be a shark attack. It would be. And that doesn't mean the sharks wrong. We are in its space. They're not bad animals. They're my favorite.

But you were talking about the stadiums being like surfing. So I was saying that, yeah, it's like surfing a huge wave. My buddy surfs jaws, which is actually as far as the crow flies, it's just right there. over the that that's John's right there and and so it's a it's a very famous break that breaks like 60 70 foot waves sometimes when it gets to be wintertime and and my buddy just charges these big waves and Matt Miola and Albi Lair Albi and Tori Meister all these guys and Kai Lenny they're just masters of these huge wave surfing and and and

And I feel that it's playing for 80,000 people is a similar charge to that. It's like a similar type of like energetic, you know, you're going down the wave, the face of the wave. And it's like as big as a skyscraper is like, you know, like that. I can't imagine. I haven't served a wave that big. But that's how I imagine it would feel as being kind of like being out in front of 80,000 people. and just like rocking and holding it down, especially with a guy like Neil where it's like

full and rock and roll. Is the way you play when you're opening for somebody or backing, somebody different than the approach you bring when you're, when you're the headliner or you're the main act? Yeah, that's just different energy. You know, it's like if somebody's, when you're playing your own gigs,

they know your songs. So they're giving you back everything you're putting out, you know. and then with your opening, you're kind of like, it's almost like you've got to calculate, okay, I got 45 minutes or I got, you know, what songs do I play that are going to, you know, that people are just kind of like,

we want to get them dancing, we want to get them rock in, and then let, you know, let them have a really great show experience and then go in and try and, you know, maybe buy the record and hear what we got after that.

And then they'll sort of get into what we do. But, but, That's, it's, it's fun. Yeah, no, I mean, like, and then you've got to pick and choose your spots to go sing it with me, and you've got to probably cover some familiar, do you cover a lot of music when you're doing a gig? Cover other people's songs. Yeah, I mean, like, that's a lot, you know.

I've got hundreds of songs now that I have on my own. So at this point, I don't recover a lot. But usually at every, at every show, we'll do two or three covers, maybe. Do you have favorites that you cover? Yeah, we really have a fun time with diamonds on the Souls of Her Shoes. It's a Paul Simon song. We've historically done, like, the sympathy for the devil, which is a great Rolling Stones tune.

Nightlife, I do Nightlife sometimes a blues tune. Zach Brown does a great job of covers. I mean, like, he could play and play and play. just like you, they have 100 songs, but like, you know, I've seen. Yeah, half of a show. Yeah, the whole thing. I mean, he really loves getting into the old fun. And you know what?

Like, it's, it's really cool. I mean, at least with your background, what you came up in, like one of the things that I love about old country was just people pass songs around. Yeah. You know, which I just don't feel like happens as much anymore. The Neil Young connection, which you've backed Neil Young, which is like your life to me from the outside. I'd be life made, but like, yeah, totally.

The promise of the real. Neil Young reference, yeah, or no? Yeah, yeah, it's a Neil Young reference. It comes from a song called Walk On, it's from on the beach. Some get stoned, some get strange. Sooner or later, it all gets real. Walk on. So sooner or later, it all gets real.

And when I was 19 years old, I heard that. song and I've said oh that's that's a promise so so what is so what is what is real then well that's the kind of the funny thing to me I interpreted as integrity you know it doesn't mean nice it doesn't mean always happy it doesn't mean you know not making mistakes in fact a lot of them is being real to me I see real and I also see real as this I there's so there's this thing in Zen and Katsungi Katsungi

So right Katsumi is the art of when a pot is broken It's a Japanese thing Katsungi is when a pot is broken they put it back together

and they seal the cracks with gold and so then the pot becomes even more beautiful in a way than it was before it was broken. And that is real to me.

That's what real is. It's understanding that being broken is just a part of life. And how we react to being broken is what defines us. But to pretend that you don't get broken or to pretend that you've never been broken or to pretend that you couldn't be broken is not real. And a lot of the industry I noticed in entertainment industry is all about pretending that you've never been broken or about pretending that you're superhuman or that you are always going to be beautiful or that you're always going to be, you know, this or that. And it's just simply not true. And someone like Neil is someone who's embraced the idea that there's a darkness and a light in life.

And even in his voice, the beauty of his voice is that it's like this shaky, his nickname is shaky. It's this shaky voice that he's got. But it's also pure and one of the most beautiful in-tune voices I've ever heard. And he still has it at 70 whatever he's at now. And so, you know, and I think that's because he's always stayed true to himself. He never lost his voice. I think of the word haunting. That's what I think in a really great way when I hear Neil's voice.

And you talked about earlier, like that kind of stripped down, not minimalism because there's incredible depth to Neil Young. But like, I love the fact that he's able to say what I can't say and I try it in 80 words and he says it in five. Well, and that's the beauty of what we try and do when we write short songs. You know what I mean? That's my, and you know, that's, that's what I try and do when I write a song, you know, I'm thinking about being influenced by Neil and being influenced by dad,

who's writing a song called Crazy, you know, that Patsy Klein made famous. One of my favorites. One of my favorites. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, that's the tradition that I look at and I, and I say, this is, this is where I begin. And then I end with the jams and the rock and roll and all of that. And Neil sort of is there too. So I'm getting there. I'm getting to the point. Like the next record may be more of an extended like jam record.

What about Neil Young? What about, you know, just touring with him in the nerves that go along with it? Or maybe not because you've known him a while? Or how does that come about? Well, it's sort of cosmic with him, you know, man. I mean, the band is almost like he sent out a bat signal and we just gathered, you know, like his, like his minions, you know. Yeah. You know, our captain.

We just sort of, you know, I felt very connected to him ever since I was a little kid and before I knew him. And then, you know, worked my whole life. And then, you know, working with Neil was a highlight of that. And so there wasn't any. fear involved at that point. I mean, it was all about just, I mean, I can honestly say that, you know, that it was just about a pure expression of our love for his music. We knew, we spent hours and hours and hours learning all of his songs, and we, you know,

we loved it every second of it. And so, you know, I'm sure there were nerves somewhere, but the nerves were more like just a charged up sort of amped feeling of stoked. Is he a nice coach? Is he like a hard coach when you guys are into like, I don't know how this goes and music. Yeah, there's not a thing about it. It's like he doesn't want to get in your head.

He doesn't want you in your head, you know. So if there was something wrong or whatever, there was a misnote or something like that, which, you know, we've all had, even Neil. It was more important to keep the vibe and the energy of the show going and keep us, our heads in it, then to get on us about a note. And then we're just thinking, like, thinking about it because we pissed. You know, he's a very good, he's a very good leader.

He's a very good band leader. Do you have a couple favorite Neil's songs? I hate putting people on the spot, but I'm going to do it to you. Yeah, only love can break your heart, harvest moon, Calderal in the Sand, you know. I mean, every song, bad fog of loneliness, you know, human highway for this turnstiles you know

castles only castles burning oh yeah yeah yeah yeah that's in my top five tell me why don't let it bring you down don't let it bring you down it's on after the goal rush that is beautiful but that's the cool thing about Neil Young I could ask you your top 10 you could ask me my top 10 they're all different like there's no chalky

five you know and I think that's what so brilliant about him. And then also, like you said, he has maintained an excellence into his later years. And the same thing, when I think about two guys that have maintained that excellence, it's Neil and your dad for me. And I wonder what you think of, like, having a dad who's been able to play late into his life. You know, I saw him at Outlaw Festival in Syracuse two, three years ago. And I was like, holy shit. Like, I saw Chris in Charlottesville, you know, so I got those two highwaymen. The other ones, unfortunately, are passed on. But like, his level is still so high. So what do you take from that? What are the keys? Let him tell it.

I just take, I mean, look, he, he is someone who's always positive. He's a positive thinker. Yeah. Even when he goes negative, he reminds himself to be, to be positive. He's also got a really great wife. My mother is really amazing and has been with him for 35 years and has kept him, you know, they stay behind every great man. There's a great woman and I think my mom is really an amazing person and has kept him healthy and eating well and excited about life and passionate. And she's just what he needs. And, you know, so, you know, there's something he said about finding a good partner in life and somebody who will challenge you to stay at your peak. Yeah, yeah.

I read that your mom had said that you found your voice, like when she heard this. And how did that make you feel? Well, she doesn't, she's a, she doesn't mince words. So it was very, it was actually made me feel really good when I, when she said that. Yeah. And it was about a simple, it was about a certain song that she, it was about this song called throwing away. your love when she's which we were listening to it all together and she said that about that song

specifically but i think she meant it in the broader sense too but there was a specific song where she liked the quality of my voice on that song yeah yeah i mean you think about i watched the ken burns documentary i don't know if you saw that whole thing uh is the country music documentary that's all. And, you know, they talked about your pops and they talked about, you know, him selling vacuums and shit like that and just all types of crazy things that somebody who's listening to music my whole life. I didn't know how, you just don't know how late of a start that is until you turn 35 or 36. And you're like, holy shit, Willie Nelson didn't pop until his 30s, you know, until his 40s. Like he breaks. You've already gotten like breaks,

like people know you, but you've got hopefully another 70 years to make music. So if you find your voice now, and this wasn't a setup, but just thinking through it, like you find your voice now, like that's always going to change, right? It's your voice now or is it like, hey, this is who I am? No, it changes, you know. It changes. Hopefully it gets better over time, you know. Yeah.

You know, but it does. It changes, you know, and it, and you sort of. The wisdom of time, you know, they have the ages sort of, you know, I think chisels more story into your voice. And so you have more, you know, the woodsmith of time, I should say, is like, you know, it's sort of chisling away at your spirit until, until everything you say is presented as a work of art. Everything you sing is presented as a real work of art. And I, like, John Prime, you know, somebody like that, you know, but. God rest of soul. I mean, that was one of the practice losses last year.

So, I mean, I just, you know, like, and it'd be hard to imagine looking back two decades and being like, oh, I love everything about that project we did. Like, you know, because you do change, I'm sure. Yeah. And, you know what? I really, I want to connect with people that are my age and that are younger. because I feel that I have something to say about the world around us. And so, you know, I hope that that happens one day, you know, that like, there's something in, in, and I do.

I'm starting to see it, you know, more like where younger people are kind of into the craft of songwriting. And there's a lot of great songs out there, you know. new songs and old. Do you feel like you grew up quick because you were around it, like you toured with the Highwaymen in Europe? Like you were out with pops and those guys. Like how old are you when you're on tour watching these guys perform? Yeah, you know, I feel like I grew up kind of quick.

I was three and four and five when that was happening. I remember it pretty well. That was like, you know, those tours were really fun. I remember being, going, traveling around Europe and going around, you know, into Spain. You know, it was a really good time. And I do feel like traveling is the best education, I think. You know, you learn a lot from people. on the road. But you don't have your own

like kid trailer. You're like hanging out like sitting there with Johnny Cash and sitting there with Waylon and those guys like I'm sure they're playing cards and doing whatever the hell they do backstage. Yeah, you know, I mean, they had their own kids too. Yeah. By the time we were out,

you know, people had their own buses and they had their own trailers and my mom. But we would all hang out with the Christophersons and and you know, Johnny and June's kids were older actually so they weren't on the road as much. But Wayland's shooter, shooter was out a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. Who was the best with kids out of the four of them? I mean, excluding your dad. Like who's the uncle that you're like, oh, that guy always took care of me. That guy brought me some like free shit, slide me a soda or something.

Or like, you know, you got that uncle. Like I got people that play with my dad that I remember. That guy was in my kitchen. and I love that dude. He gave me free video games or whatever it was. Who out of those four or three, rather, was like this. Chris was the best for kids. Yeah.

Chris is a very, very sweet man, and he's a very humble, humble person. And he always spoke to us as children. He would get down to our level and look us in the eye. He never treated us like we were kids. he kind of always, he was, he's a wise man. And, and, and he's just, you know, he was probably the most gentle of them, other than dad's pretty gentle too. But Waylon and Johnny, and Johnny too.

Waylon was a little more rough around the edges, but he had its own gentle spirit. But Chris was very good with kids. And, and these fears, my dad's base player, rest of the soul, was very, was very, cool and very good with kids. He was funny, very funny, and he would take us all over the place. One time we were in Australia and at the zoo, and, you know, I remember he put kangaroo food in his mouth and made out with a kangaroo. Incredible.

As you've been on the road a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've been on the road a whole fucking lot. Oh, yeah. What about like the, you know, growing up with the dad thing explicitly. Like, I'll ask it because, like, I know I don't love getting asked every interview about like, hey, what's it like being X? You know, but I understand it's, it's when I interview somebody like you, it's like, oh, fuck, there's nothing insidious about asking the question. You're just interested.

I like your dad's music. I like your music. Like, does it get annoying, though, to talk about that? You kind of alluded earlier to a little bit of a struggle growing up. It's, I don't want to say it's a shadow. I'm in a shadow, I feel sometimes, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. It's not that I struggle with that per se. I struggle with proving to myself that I'm my, that I am my, you know, that I'm capable.

And I think it would be the same as if I was the son of anybody who was well to do. And, you know, I just, I just as a, as my own huge. human being want to know that I would be okay. I want to find meaning in life. I want to know that I didn't just get, you know, that even though I got handed things in life, that if I hadn't, I'd still be able to stand up and be heard. And so that's really the challenge for me. And ironically, and I think the beautiful thing about challenging yourself in that way is

that now that I have stood up and been heard, I continue to do that and I continue to challenge myself in that way. My father and I are closer because we have a lot to relate to. And I think that there's an element of pride that he has for, you know, in watching his sons grow up and not depend on him, which is something that I have also never wanted to do is depend on my parents to survive. I, you said, yeah, that's, my dad wants to let me borrow his fucking, boat out here in Montana when mine's like broke down. I'm like, nope, I don't want it.

You know, like, it's just this like, and he's like, Jesus, dude, give it a rest. Like, just borrow my boat or like, can I buy you dinner? It's just, it's that pervasive, like, I have to prove. And I guess you're right at the end of the day. And a lot of what you might realize sitting around the last year. And I know I've had some realizations. Like, you really, it's you against you. It's not, because it really doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. It matters. Obviously, you want your fans to be happy. I want my people that rooted for the teams I played for to think I was good. And obviously, that's human nature. But to, like, cling to their acceptance either way is, it's just a total waste of time.

Because if you drop dead, I'm talking about myself here. I mean, people are going to talk about you for a while, but life goes on. I mean, so why are you getting hung up on people that, you know, you don't mean that much to them. And it's the person in the mirror. And I just, for you, like, fuck, for me, it was like, I played a game where, hey, it's measured in, you know, how many sacks you get, you know, how much you win, your productivity. And for you, like, you're in an industry where I feel like it's more subjective. Like, you could sell a ton, but maybe your shit isn't that great. Like, or you could go a little bit under the radar and your stuff is profound and it really resonates with people. So,

like, the barometer for, hey, I've lived up to that is much different for you. It's more cloudy, at least from the outside looking in. For me, it's like, hey, as good as your dad, the numbers show it or they don't. Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's a different measurement, I suppose, in terms of sports than it is in an art form, you know, where you have, where you have, it's more subjective as to what success really is. Yeah. But to me, success is defined by my level of happiness,

peace of mind. And so, you know, do I feel satisfied? Do I feel like I've done enough? And if I don't, then I keep charging. You know what I mean? And it's not even about, it's more about being a human being, too. It's not just about the music.

It's about living up to my standards of being a human being. And, you know, what will my, what will people say when, when I do go, when that does, when that time comes, will they say that I was a compassionate, kind person that always gave of himself in times of need, you know, or, or will they say that, you know, that I spent most of my time just focusing on trying to prove to myself who I was, you know? And so there's a balance there too. Do I just, is it a selfish thing? Or is it more of a balance between just wanting to figure out what really is the key to joy and happiness in life? And then being able to celebrate life too and make art and make people happy. I know that I make people happy when I go play. It makes me happy when I go play.

and I play live and I make a living doing it. So it's nice. You know, it'd be great if I, if I could, you know, just make a giant chunk of change that, that,

you know, that would just like, set me up, I guess, for future generations. But at the same time, then I would still be wanting to go out and play. You know,

same thing. You'd be doing the same thing. You talk about fulfilling and making people happy. I wonder, sometimes I ask if we have a musician. Like if you met somebody that loved your music that surprised you, has anybody come up to you? And you were like, damn, that's out of left field that somebody listens to me. Like Bradley Cooper coming up to you at the, that's where he met you at that festival,

whatever moments where you're like, damn, you know, not that I made it, but somebody's listening that I didn't expect. Well, that experience with, that was one thing, because that was, he's a huge Neal fan. Oh, okay. So when we were playing with Neil, you know, that's when he was one of those people in the audience. You had to be like, sing along with you. You know, he wasn't. No, he had already knew all the songs to Neils. So we were playing Neal's tunes.

Yeah. Yeah. So he was there. How does that conversation go when Bradley comes up? Well, Billy Gerber, the producer called me and said that Bradley wanted to get together with you. And then so we did. We got together and liked each other. and they kept working together in many capacities for the next couple of years.

And then, you know, and that movie sort of was born of a genuine affection for, I think, each other. I like Bradley a lot. Yeah, what made him right to actually be able to go out there and portray an artist on screen? Because I think, like, so many people, not that I would know, but at least as somebody watching it, They don't pull it off. Yeah. Well, you know, he, I think he definitely emulated the right folks. I mean, you know, not to not to my own horn,

but that was a really great sort of, I think choosing that band and Promise of the Real, my band. and then sort of the energy that we had on stage for the desert trip show, you know, and you could see that like what we did at Desert Trip with Neil is a lot of what he portrayed in the film. Right. Yeah, no, he was convincing and I mean, I wouldn't know, but to me he was convincing. I know Jason Isbell was involved in some capacity. Yeah.

Jason Isbell, what he wrote, maybe it's time to let the old ways die, which is. one of the songs that was featured in the film. Yeah, it was great. I just thought, I thought it was a great flick. I thought that the flick was cast wonderfully. I mean, down to the supporting, like, the Sam Elliott's of the film. I just thought it was really cool. Yeah, he really did a great job in connecting the right people together.

And I think that's why that film was successful. Any more actors or actresses you're going to be coaching up to prepare for a role here soon? I don't know. Not that I know of, but if they call, I might say yes. There we go. There we go. Lucas Nelson and The Promise the Real, a few stars apart is it's out by the time you're hearing this. And I gave you a couple tour dates. You guys check it out. I can't wait to see Lucas in person with his band. So thank you so much for your time, brother. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. This is good.

Likewise. Likewise. I'll see you in Richmond, is that where? I'll be in, yeah, I'll be down in Richmond. I will definitely make it's an hour trip from where I live. So that's easy. And I can't wait to come check y'all out. So best of luck and stay healthy and, and we'll catch you down the line, buddy. Catch you down the line. Thank you.