Green Light with Chris Long - Michael Bennett & Devin McCourty on Drew Brees, Police Brutality, & Protesting.

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

0:37 - open and Chris on the week and social media during these protests. 27:27 - Devin McCourty and Michael Bennett on Drew Brees, social justice, and protesting. 1:08:55 - Wrap up Shoutout to https://twitter.com/greg_doucette on his round up on Policing videos thread: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1268766216161763328 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Again, I appreciate you guys so much, you know, not just for the conversation we've been able to have and being able to having an opportunity to listen to you guys, but that you would follow up and come on the pod because evidently all my other friends hate me. So we're not getting paid for this? This week we brought on Allbirds as a sponsor of the Greenlight Pod. And the very first thing they did is tell us, don't pump our sneakers this week. It's not appropriate, which I think speaks volumes about them as a company. And here's a statement from Allbirds. Normally, this sponsored read would focus on what Allbirds does as a business and talk about one of our newest products, but there's something much more important happening in our country and around the world right now.

Acknowledging injustice is not the kind thing to do. It's the right thing to do. As a business, Allbirds has always stood for the planet, and standing for the planet also means standing for its people. We believe that everyone should be able to enjoy all the Earth has to offer without fearing for their lives because of the color of their skin. And while we admit that we're not entirely sure what the right thing to do is at a time like this, we know that just stating our support isn't enough. We need to take action. As a first step, Allbirds has contributed to organizations like the National Movement for Black Lives and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund to support their efforts.

We encourage you to demand change and make your voices heard. Black Lives Matter. Greenlight Pod, I'm Chris Long, your host. and I will have guests today. You know, starting out this week, I mean, we've had a good week. I thought for a pod, I had nobody to talk about this with a few days back. I did all right. I hate just having the floor with nobody to talk to, but it was fine.

Then I had Mark Cuban on. That was a great interview. It was awesome talking to Mark. Mark is one of those guys that you don't even know him. He just got that magnetism about him. You like the guy. right off the bat as soon as he popped on Zoom. And it was a good talk.

And he's somebody who's tried to put himself in other people's shoes. He's somebody that's kind of led by example. From an ownership perspective in sports, obviously another stratosphere from the type of things that NFL owners do or say. I mean, Mark's in that stratosphere. But I haven't had anybody black on the pod, which wasn't intentional. you know, this week is not about my perspective.

It's about people who don't look like me and their perspective. So I start freaking out because I've been kind of a procrastinator this week. I've just been kind of stressed, distracted. The last thing I think about doing some days is the pod. And I do realize, though, that my pod can actually be a force for good and for understanding and conversation. So today, when around noon, I decided that I was going to try to get somebody with a different perspective, not named Malcolm Jenkins, because Malcolm and I have been going back and forth on when we might do a pod together. We're going to do it soon. It just didn't work out today.

I started texting dudes and I was striking out because people are busy and everybody's getting hit up right now. And coming into the pod, I thought, fuck. It's just going to be like Caucasian city again this Friday on the pod. But last minute, got a text back. Actually, didn't even have to wait for a text back from Michael Bennett. I called Michael Bennett. I know he's in New Zealand or Hawaii. I mean, the time zone, I can't keep up with him.

So I assume maybe that he wouldn't be able to do it, but I called him. And he said, no problem, let's do it. And Devin McCordy called me back as well and said, let's pop on. And the three of us, we've played together, not been on the same team at the same time. Mike was in New England a couple years after me for a little bit and shared a locker room with Dev. And then I shared a locker room with Dev in New England years earlier. Mike and I, of course, played together for a very long year in Philly. It was great talking to these guys.

We've talked about issues like this before. Me and Mike, you spend a lot of time just hanging around the D-Line room, the locker room, sometimes arguing about real issues, talking about issues. of racism, of race, different cultures, different perspectives, experiences. We'd talk politics. We'd also talk about dumb shit. It's a great thing about having a teammate. You know, conversations run the gambit.

But we would stay in the locker room so long it would get dark. You know, sometimes after practice, we just talk about stuff. And me and Mike don't see eye to eye on everything in the world, but we do see eye to eye on a lot of the stuff that we're talking about this week. Mike's a good person. Mike's got a big heart. Dev as well has a huge heart and is one of the best leaders I've played with. And me and Deb have shared a lot of conference rooms and conference calls talking about moving

the ball forward in the world of criminal justice reform, educational equity, the things that we've dealt with at players coalition. So I have a background with these guys. It's a comfortable way to get two guys on that I know that are football players that are African-American and who are really involved in trying to advance the ball, not just talking about it. Good dudes. So really lucky that they're going to join us in a few. And we'll see how that conversation goes.

I thought for a second, I had no friends. Somebody joke with me. I put out like kind of this defeated tweet that was like, hey, guys, I struck out on guests today. But somebody was like, yeah, maybe you should have listened to your mom when she laughed at you, that she never expected you'd get more cute. Cuban. Maybe it is hard for you to get guessed. Another guy was like, what the fuck is going on at your show that you go from Mark Cuban to no guess? It's just a it's a crazy week and everybody is using their voice. So I'm lucky to have those two guys join me. And, you know, today more of the same discouragement, some glimmers of hope. The fact that I think everybody's so uncomfortable is a really good sign. You know, it's one of those things that if you are somebody who's empath to what's going on right now and you care about the state of our country and the plight of our African-American community, you're probably a little bit exhausted this week. There's no way

you're as exhausted as the community that we're trying to stand up for and stand by. But the burnout is real. It's video after video. It's chaotic scene after chaotic scene. It's gotten so bad that when you text your friends, you're like, did you see that video? I mean, it would take a while. Cowboy Reed and I were talking about this before we got on, that it's hard to keep up. It's usually one of these videos a day is the way it goes online in a bad week. But there's protesting going on around the country in some places there's rioting and there's escalation going on. It's actually mind-numbing. You should check this out.

Greg DeSette, G-R-E-G-D-O-C-E-T-E. He is a criminal defense attorney and First Amendment attorney in North Carolina and Texas. He's self-described as a conservative but not a Trump guy. And he's got a really good feed on Twitter, really informational, really on the right side with the criminal justice reform stuff. And informative. He really breaks things down for his followers. So shout out to Greg. But the thread that he put together over the past week or so.

cataloging videos that he saw so that you can keep up a little bit better so that you can just scroll down and digest the sheer incompetence that's going on in even handling peaceful protests around the country by police is mind-numbing, absolutely mind-numbing. You can argue semantics about what kind of police problem there is because you can't. can't stomach letting black people lead anything. But you can admit that it's actually much tougher for black people than it is for white people in America and white people still have reason to suspect that they could end up in an ugly encounter with police.

I mean, look out there at the protests, look out there at the riots. People of all colors are being roughed up pretty good. And that's not to say that outside agitators aren't fucking things up. don't send me a video heartbreaking video of that St. Louis cop who got killed over a TV like I'm like that's gonna like I'm gonna be callous and say that

that's not absolutely wrong or that those guys shouldn't be swiftly dealt justice. They will be. That's the way it goes and they should be. Don't send me videos like that thinking that because something bad happened that there was a horrific asshole out there

taking advantage of the protests, that that gives you some shield and you don't have to deal with the problem at hand. I'm seeing a ton of videos, and Greg DeSette did a good job of compiling them. I don't want to call it a good job because the end result of the compilation is not good. It is troubling.

It's disturbing. There were a few I saw today that just made me angry, angry, angry. the video of those Buffalo cops shoving that old dude to the ground he hit the back of his head on the concrete hard enough that there were audible gasps and the video pans and you can see that within two seconds of the back of his head hitting the concrete he's bleeding out of his fucking ears and the dude that pushed him or the dude right next to him because they're just marching forward and the thing about this video is there's not chaos going on there's not a lot of people protest that you can clearly see what happens. The cop that pushed him to the ground, the old man who's now bleeding from his ears underneath his feet, doesn't even have the empathy to reach down and pick him up or reach down and tend to him and say,

hey, can we get him some help? He kind of half squats and then realizes that I don't want to look soft. The other guys in uniform are going to judge me if I help this man right now, who I just gave probably, an awful concussion. I hear the guy's in stable condition. I mean, I'm watching a video of these five cops, Billy clubbing, some poor girl who's really clearly not a threat. Eventually, they'd get her on the ground. They're beating her. I got a video of cops lighting people up under an

overpass stuck in traffic. People are stuck in traffic. They're trying to get home and you're just pelting them with non-lethal. Breaking glass. I could hear somebody in the background was like, holy shit, the windows are breaking and they're just opening fire. I saw a video of a guy getting out of his car. That's where the video picks up. He's like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you shooting my car? The guy's evidently not even in the protest, just trying to get home. He says he's got his pregnant girlfriend or wife in the car. And why the fuck you, why would you shoot at a car with a pregnant woman in it? Well, if they didn't know then, they know now. And the guy is understandably cussing them out because I swear to God, if they did that to me,

I wouldn't even be that. I wouldn't even be that friendly. If they didn't know then, they knew when they unloaded 15 times the amount they did, presumably the first time into and at the car. I mean, it's insane. I saw a guy on a bicycle getting the shipy out of him with billy clubs.

I mean, they got billy clubs out like now, like it's 1960 now, tear gassing people during like a worshiping service. There's people out in like wheelchair, and kids, it didn't look like an active protest zone or somewhere that was really escalated. It looked to be some sort of a walking mall. I don't know where it was. But there was absolutely no need.

These people were literally having service. There's a fucking dude in a wheelchair and there's kids. It's the middle of day. It doesn't look tense at all. Maybe the entire thing is orchestrated to create some fake news, right? I don't know. That's what some people would tell me if I shared that video. Yeah, it's, it's awful. And here's the thing. These cops are doing this with the world watching. They know they're being filmed. They know there's camera phones. And I'm not excusing a lot of the assholes that are out there

agitating and taking away from this process. But the people I'm seeing in these videos time and time again are not those people. And I see some bullies and I see some people that are fed up. Why are you fed up with the protesters? Be fed up with the guys that you, that represent you, that you serve and protect with. Good cops. Come on down, man. Join the party. These videos are tough to watch. I know that the entire country is, all 50 states have had protests, but that doesn't excuse the amount of videos we've seen. What about the cop outside the pawn shop in St. Louis, the retired cop who tragically lost his life, is not something that cancels out the validity of a need for change. I think anybody reasonable would come to that conclusion. So then you got Drew Breeze

in the midst of all this, who failed big time. He did. We've all heard what he said. I'll get to why he failed in a minute. But if you see this visceral reaction, I think the anger is, love disappointed is a good one here. How do you spend that much time in locker rooms and come off so tone deaf when you could have just done it? This was a crossroads where you could just be a part of the solution. All you had to do was what Carson did. I know the topic was the protests, but all you had to do was just make a statement condemning the death. You didn't even have to call it a murder. You could have just said the death of George Floyd referenced systemic racism or mention the word police. You could frame it as neatly as you wanted and call it a fucking day.

But when you tell everybody how you feel about the anthem, at least have the empathy right now this week to realize and point out that that's your perspective. And you don't get to be paternal to dudes that don't have your perspective. As visceral or reaction, reaction as you get, and I don't know if that's the right word, because he, you know, the anthem elicits a positive reaction with Drew Breeze. Your black teammate feels very differently about that flag, about the anthem. So your perspective is no more important than your teammates' perspective if we are equal, if the country is as great as you say it is. He may be a charitable guy. He's a guy that I've had a lot of respect for. He may be a guy that has done a lot of good. He

certainly has. People can be complicated. There's good and there's bad. He's a great football player. I think people even called him a great leader. All that's great and it sounds good. It looks good. But if you're apathetic, that's dangerous, especially with a big platform like you have. And all you had to do, nobody has an issue, Drew, with your perspective of the anthem. Nobody. Nobody is going to get mad at you for standing with your hand on your heart for the anthem, for you to get that paternal tone with your teammates who you spent 20 years in locker rooms with was kind of just, it was just discouraging.

That's all. I mean, I think that's it. I'm certainly not trying to preach it. Drew Brees. I'm not perfect. I'm like everybody else that we all have some figuring out to do on this thing. But, you know, you've got to understand where these guys are coming from. And you've got to grant them the decent.

and the empathy this week to read the room and as you share your perspective, knowing what that answer can be weaponized to mean or interpreted to mean by fans and your teammates to qualify it with the fact that ultimately there's nothing more American than peacefully protesting and that your teammates' perspective might be much different than yours because your teammates, if they have grandfathers that in this point has been beaten to death this, you know, the last 24 hours, but I'll make it again. If they had grandfathers that that fought next to your grandfather, and this is the, to me, World War II is, isn't it widely considered to be kind of like the modern day apex of our military moral authority, like where we were behind a righteous

cause that we can all agree was a task that we had to take on? Even in that moment for us, your black teammates, if they had people that served, came home to Jim Crow. Do you realize how bonkers that is, dude? So like the tone, you know, the disappointment for guys because he is so loved, to Hall of Famers, to guys he played with that you'd never heard of. He's Superman to a lot of these guys. And so the really disturbing part is that this Superman, who's played nearly 20 years in locker rooms with guys that don't look like he. him to have different perspective, life experiences, who shared the field with these guys.

They've sacrificed next to him. They've sacrificed their body, their careers, helping him, helping each other to win a Super Bowl, to set records, individual records, team records. This Superman, he's thrust himself into a city with a really diverse population. And he's got a lot of fans that don't look like him. and a city that he helped pull out of Katrina as a role model, as somebody who was community-minded for all those people. If that Superman misses the point, we have a problem.

Who should have got it more than Drew Breeze? I've been on a team. I know how many conversations we have. I'm going to have a conversation with Mike Bennett and Devin McCordy in a few minutes that I've had with them probably in 50 different iterations. at lunch tables, you know, at night, 11 o'clock at night, the night before a noon game, just sitting in the cafeteria at the hotel, eating ice cream or some shit, talking about the world's problems.

Like, this stuff happens in NFL locker rooms. So that's why I was so confused. I don't know if Drew was missing those conversations or if he wasn't listening to those conversation. And he had time. He had four years since Kat knelt and guys peacefully protested. It wasn't just these seven. days. People are like, he's had a week to think about this. No, he had four years and seven days to

think about this. If you missed the point after four years, there's a problem, but maybe it can be fixed. A lot of guys are coming around. But if you miss the point seven days into this, I'm not sure. I don't know. And that's why I think it was such a strong reaction. Now, football wise, you know, and by the way, Drew apologized today. Of course he did. I don't know if it's good enough. I'm not the gatekeeper. I'm not the one who he has to answer to in his locker room. And I look like Drew. So Drew's a guy who's done a lot of good in his life. I don't think Drew is a racist.

I think he badly missed the mark. And I don't know if it was because of ignorance or because of apathy. I think the latter would be worse. Now, football-wise, he's got to go back into that locker room. And I think that process started today talking to some guys on the Saints. You know, they had some good raw conversations. For some guys, I'm just telling you, it's never going to be a lot of. enough. Some guys are going to feel like he's showing his true colors. You know, whether it was

Marcus Colston who used to play with him, who's not a teammate anymore. If you notice the phrasing, it's Drew, somebody I had respect for. Malcolm Jenkins, I had respect for you. Ed Reed, and this was painful because Ed Reed's the nicest Hall of Fame I've ever met, and this would have to cut like a knife. And I know Drew's hurting right now, but people aren't really focused on how Drew feels rightfully so. Ed Reed said, you're going to be a sucker. You know, like that's the problem and that's the consequence of, you know, missing the point. And I think had it been some gotcha moment where he misspoke or didn't articulate what he was thinking correctly, I think there's a lot more of a safety net for him. But the problem is what I mentioned a minute ago, you had a lot

of time to formulate this and the way things work when you're asked to do an interview you are a franchise quarterback in the middle of an unprecedented time period in America people are going to ask you to talk about this stuff it's been kind of like the statement Olympics everybody's been making one you know all you had to do was just you didn't have to lean into or triple down on your sentiment that you just can't respect that that's all now I don't know that there you don't know that there I don't know it's going to affect them or not on the field. I mean, you know, if it was a position player, it's one thing. If it was Jake Fromm, which I'm not going to spend more than 10 seconds talking about.

I mean, he said something racist in a text message. Somebody called him. I don't know that he has the equity in the league to overcome something like that. I don't know that anybody, I don't know that some people will ever forgive him for something like that, you know, especially in a time like this because it comes out now. But he's not Drew Brees. guys are going to Drew Breeze will take the field again.

They'll win games. I don't know the dynamic when he tries to break down the huddle. I don't know what that's like. But hopefully Drew can have some real honest conversations and grow because he's built a hell of a

a hell of a career, a hell of a name, a reputation. And it just only takes one statement like that sometimes for people to change the perception of you. And it's hard for me to feel sorry for him today because it's not just about Drew, it's about like other players

too, seeing that and being like, okay, that was what was wrong with that. And it's not enough for me to just give my perspective on the anthem. Laura Ingram, okay, she's back. I know she's got to be charged up from having to listen to black people's opinions for an entire week. That's got to really get her mad. And also, mind you, the lady works at the network that has just, Chuck Norris on to talk climate change, or the guy from the motion picture Anaconda, John Voight, to talk about things like the economy. Seriously, these are the correspondence that her network has on to talk about things that have nothing to do with their vocation.

But do you remember her telling NBA guys that millions elected Trump to be their coach, so they should shut up and dribble? By the way, Laura, besides being morally bankrupt as an individual, the coach that you referenced turns out to be a terrible fucking game. game manager, and we knew it. But when it comes to Drew Breeze, Laura has a different attitude. Surprise, he's a human being too. This is totalitarianism. This is Stalinism. I too remember when Stalin used to make people apologize on Instagram, and that was one of the punishments. I think that was in his toolkit. It's almost like freedom of speech goes both ways. Drew Breeze has freedom

of speech, and people can use their collective voice to disapprove of it in mass. And this is not about Laura Ingram. I don't feel like giving her a platform. And I haven't since that day. It's just, it's kind of that disparity that often comes to light when we talk about which athletes can say what and when and on what topic. Someone asked me last night about the Colin Kaepernick protest. Obviously, that's very topical right now. A dude asked me if I thought Colin picked the right time during the game to raise awareness for his cause. And I don't know if he was asking open-mindedly. I try not to be too cynical, but at this point, it's hard not to be.

Mind you, this dude asked me about Colin Kaepernick in 2020, four years after the fact, on a Wednesday night in June at 11 p.m. You're asking me that question proves that the awareness part has worked. It is the listening part that is falling short. So, you know, in the words of my buddy Malk, who's been in the news the last day, who, by the way, I respect a great deal. He's really lived this stuff as long as I've known him. You still aren't listening, you know? I thought that's poke volumes that day when he busted that poster board out in the locker room.

So it's not just the awareness, it's listening. And hopefully, and, you know, it's encouraging. I will say this. I've had a few people in my mentions today. When I tweeted, you know, what I just said about CAP that said, I was one of the people that didn't get it four years ago. I get it now. So better late than never. Otherwise, what are we trying to do?

We have to change people's minds. And I don't know how far gone somebody can be down the road of apathy or racism. And I don't know how far down the road somebody can be before they can't turn back. But you still got to have these conversations. That's at least the way I look at it. I really like that NFL Black Lives Matter video that Juice Landry shared with a number of players on it. He tweeted it earlier this evening. You know, what do you want the NFL to say?

That's it. That would be a start. You know, all the things in that video, go check out Jarvis Landry's Twitter. He shared a nice video that include guys like Dick Elliott, Deshawn Watson, number of players that I actually hadn't heard speak up before. speaking up being specific about what would be a start for the NFL to acknowledge. You want your players to trust you. You really want to be a part of the solution because the NFL always talks about wanting to be a part of the solution.

Acknowledgement. That's a start. So let's get Mike Bennett and Devin McCordy on. And I hope soon we can get back talking about sports and that sort of thing. but I just wouldn't count on it at least the next couple days, the next couple of pods. I hope people start to get it. Here's Mike and here's Dev. All right.

So Greenlight Pod, let's dive right into it. I had up until a few minutes ago, no guess. I was like 0 for 15. I thought everybody hated me. People were tired of hearing me talk. And then I threw a couple Hail Mary's to one Devin McCordy and one Michael Bennett, former teammates of mine and actually we've all played with each other. So good to have you guys on. I know it's been a tough week. Where's everybody at right now?

I'm in Hawaii right now. I'm just in New Jersey. Hawaii sounds a little nicer than Jersey. I'd rather be quarantined there. I wouldn't say I played in New England Patriots. I definitely was a part of the team. You know what's funny, Mike, is I was looking up a GIF to tell the people that I indeed had a pot. In fact, you joke that I sounded desperate on Twitter. I was just defeated. And when I dropped your gift, people were excited. And then I got the word that Dev was coming on. And I looked for a Devin McCordy gift. And one of the gifts was one of the Patriots preseason videos that y'all shot, you know, for the media. And it was you two. And I was like, what the fuck did they have

Mike Bennett in this video before? They barely played him. We had a good time, bro. I had a great time, though. I won't say I didn't have a great time. I had a great time. time hanging in it with the guys. I had the most interesting conversations with the people on the Patriots. I just, I just didn't fit in schematically. I think at the beginning when I first got traded, they were doing a 4-3. And by the time, the summertime came, and we had more linebackers than we had defensive alignment. And I was in a defense-aligning category. And they wanted us to hold up people. I just, I wasn't used to holding up people. Like, just literally holding up the niggins. If I move sideways, I did like you in trouble. So it was different for me. But I

I liked a lot of football out there. I wouldn't say I didn't have it. You know, when I got the same pump fake, I thought we were running a four, three, the first two games I was there, and I was going off, you know, getting game balls and shit. And then by the end, you're like, no, we're kind of like a reduced front. I will say, Mike is telling the hard truth. We had some good, we had some really great conversations in that cafeteria. And then the season started. And from just a schematic standpoint, It just wasn't working. And, I mean, to Mike's credit, he's not a quiet guy.

And he still was a good teammate. We laughed. We joked all year or the time he was there. So it just didn't work out. But, you know, you can't go wrong with the Bennett's. No, you can't go wrong with the Bennett's. I got to enjoy a year of great conversations with Marty and then another year in Philly with Mike. And they're both great conversationalists, very different conversation styles.

but very great conversationalist and kind of got me through the respective years. So I appreciate the Bennett's greatly. Speaking of conversations, there's a guy in the NFL by the name of Drew Brees, who doesn't seem like he's had a lot of conversations that he's taken much away from in cafeterias and in locker rooms. You guys have seen the comments. Where are you on that today? Has it changed at all from yesterday?

No, for me, it hasn't. You know, I think everyone was like, you know, he apologized. But for me, it wasn't about that. Like, it was about his stance and the stance he took now allowing people to be like, you know what, man, Drew Breeze is a great guy. You know, he's a, I've gotten a tweets. He's a Christian man. Why would you go out of him like that?

He's done so much for the community. And to me, all he did was open the door for people to be like, you know what, he's right. this is about the anthem, you know. Oh, no, I do care about black people dying in the street, but, you know, this isn't it. And, you know, I was talking to my mom earlier, and she said it best. It allowed

people who are very comfortable with all of the benefits and the privileges they have to be like, you know what, I'm on the same side as Drew. And I think that's where we're at, you know, now as a country. And it was very disappointing to hear that stance and what it allows for other people

to do. I think what we're looking at, what we're suffering from at this point is somebody who's being so privileged they haven't had the time to see what other people are experiencing in America. I think Drew Breed is a reflection of America. I think it's a reflection of people, right? Because most people are white, they haven't had the time to even understand what African-American people have, right? There's the question. When you say, oh, my father was in the World War II or grandfather was in World War II,

you're not acknowledging the African-American man fought in World War II and came back into a country that was still segregated. We're still 20 years away from the end of segregation after World War II. Then we see people who fought in the Civil War. People fall in the Civil War and they still have to deal with Jim Crow, right? So it's a sense that he's disconnected from his teammates and their struggles and what they've been through as a community and a traumatic experience of being an African-American man in a society and how our history is woven in the fabric of American society from the blood, sweat, and tears that we died in the battlefield,

or the same blood and sweat and tears that we died in the Civil Rights Movement. And still, we're witnessing public lynchings when you will look at George Floyd. There's a sense of anger and there's a sense of compassion that Drew Breese is missing. I think most white of America are trying to prove that they're not white, right? But in a sense, they're trying to prove that they're white, but they're not racist, right? They're not that white. But when you are, when you dehumanize the death of somebody else, you fit right into the category and into the box of being a racist, right?

There's Drew Brees. I'm not saying Drew Brees is a racist, but I'm saying most of America is saying that they're not, that they're not racist. But in the sense, they aren't connecting to humanity of African American individuals in this society. And I think that's what we pled with. We plagued with when we said pandemic, racism is a pandemic. It's really the core thing that you could possibly disease that is so almost untreatable. And this society in America has been suffering from a pandemic.

pandemic, since the beginning of its creation, the amendment of the constitution was made in the ideology of people being free, free speech, free peace, free this and that, free that. But that same America is two different Americas. One America is for white people and one America is for black and brown people who suffer from the racial disparities of the past and the traumatic experience of being American citizen. I mean, Mike, what you said is absolutely correct. Uh, What it, what shocked me so much is that he not only has had four years, though, to think about it. It's one thing to be ignorant to facts, to realities. That can happen to any white person.

It can happen to anybody who doesn't have cultural experiences outside their own. You know, that's why I think integration in society is so important in schools, in communities. And, you know, a locker room is supposed to be a melting pot. But somehow it didn't fucking work. And so at that point, with all these conversations that he's been privy to, he's had an opportunity to have these conversations. But he either opted out of these conversations or heard them and didn't care to listen. And he had four years after cap to formulate an opinion and understanding. And then he had 10 days, eight 10 days, whatever it's been since George Floyd was murdered, to formulate us.

What am I going to say? I'm a franchise fucking quarterback for the New Orleans Saints. Okay, I'm going to agree to a Yahoo.com interview. What do you think they're going to ask you about, Drew? So it wasn't a misstep. It wasn't a man, I flubbed up. You leaned into it. That was the tone.

It wasn't just what he didn't say and what he did say, but it was the tone. It felt like he leaned into, well, this is my position, and I have not changed. I agree. felt like he knew the questions that were coming. Like, hey, man, like at this point in an interview, I'm going to ask you about the protest.

I'm going to let you voice your opinion, your stance, and just tell the world. And I think it's like Mike just said, you know, when you've lived with that kind of privilege, it's sad, it's sad to watch, but it's like, do you really, from a selfish standpoint, do you really want to give up that privilege and acknowledge that, hey, man,

I've had privileges all throughout my life. And it's awesome. And I think for us to sit here, And we were talking before we jumped on here to sit here and expect people to just raise their hand and volunteer. Like, hey, man, I want to say I'm privileged and I want to see how I can help. Like that's not going to happen. But, you know, I would have hoped, you know, like you just said, four years, all of that. Maybe, you know, we're playing football.

Maybe you forgot. Maybe his head got hit. But Monday came around and I'm pretty sure almost all 32 teams, if they were doing some type of meetings or group chats with teammates, I'm sure there was conversations everywhere. I mean, you guys both played in New England. Like, New England is one place that's heavy football. Like, we were to do football. We're all about getting better.

Football's what we're doing, no distraction. That's what we did Monday. We talked about what was going on. We allowed people to open up, speak freely. So, like, you just said it was just so out of touch that it wasn't just a mess up. It was like, I want to be direct. And I want people to know where I stand. And this is it.

So like I said, Pete, he apologized, and I think that's great for his teammates that accepted his apology and for them to move on as a football team. But I think for his stance as far as, you know, what's going on, it just is what it is. You know, you don't, I don't like that stance. I don't agree with it. And I think everyone should stand by that. If you don't agree with it, you don't agree with that stance. Mike, do you feel like the ideological shield thing has changed from four years ago. It was the flag and it was the military.

And it was, hey, we're not going to pay attention to what you're asking us to pay attention to. It's shifted in those four years. It's just changed form from, okay, it was the military then. And now it's, you know, whether it's the protest, how you're protesting, this, that, and the third. It just feels like there's never, you know, an environment where we can just see it. It's never the right moment. I think, I think, too, we're dealing with, we're dealing with something, too, where these leagues and these companies, they're trying to exploit this moment, right?

They're trying to prove that they're not a part of the issue. But the problem is that we've lost so many people because of people having been speaking up. We've lost so many young black people at the hands of police violence. And police violence is just the edge of the system, right? weird. We're not even talking about the judicial system who black and brown people are in prison at a higher rate than any of the race in America and have been accused of crimes that they haven't even done, indicted, giving jail time for crazy jail time and marijuana. We can keep going on and on. But I think the NFL is at this pivotal moment where it has to make a decision on the moral

compass. And I think the NFL is subjugated to this opinions of his players, right? The opinions the opinions of the players who will really hold weight. So when Drew Brees makes a statement like that, he almost debunks everything that every other player in the NFL is fighting for. He basically says, I don't see racism, Vic Fangio. I don't see anything that happens in the NFL. And it almost makes the NFL be contradictory towards all the decisions because they're dealing with their own problem with the Rooney Rule, right?

You're dealing with somebody who's throwing rocks at the Glass House and they say that I don't believe in racism. I believe in this. but look at any position in the NFL from the presidents are white, the vice president of white, GMs are white, the ownership is white, the trainer room is white, the equipment room is right, the media room is white, everything about the NFL is white. So it's hard for anybody in the NFL from people who are growing more privileged to understand what every player in the NFL is saying.

I'm George Floyd. We all are Joyce Floyd. We are all black people at any moment our life can be taken from us. We are in a moment, a pivotal moment in society where we're reclaiming, The dignity and the right to exist, which the right to exist is a moral and spiritual freedom given to us by God simply because we're born, right? And we have a system that's which is oppressive us at a higher rate to anything. And the NFL, the shield is trying to hide from that, but it can't hide from them anymore because the players are starting to stand up. When you have O'Dah, Betham, and people like that really starting to voice their opinions, then the system, they have to have to change everything because now the players have a voice.

Four years ago, the players were scared. They were so scared. It was like everybody was scared. There was a couple players in the NFL. Dev was one person who wasn't scared. Michael Jenkins, people like that weren't scared. They understood what being a black man was and what it means to them, their duty and obligation to speak up for people who don't have a voice.

And now every player is starting to recognize. And unfortunately, Cap was a casualty of that, right? But at the same time, the NFL is at a point if they don't speak up and say what's right, they're going to have a revolt and a revolution on their side. They're trying to stop that from happening. Right. You mentioned Drew one last time because this is something where I think the context and the pressure mounted where we're all looking to white voices.

And I've said this. I've said, listen, as a white guy who's had to speak on things before, I would just counsel guys that text me. If you're going to say something, say something substantive. You know, that's why I thought that, and you guys might disagree with me. You know, Carson did a good thing. He said, you know, systemic racism. He called it out by name.

You know, even putting a statement out there for white quarterback, which shouldn't be a big deal. I hope we can get to the point where we don't have to give a white guy a fucking medal for speaking the truth or for putting value on black lives. But, you know, with guys looking at Carson as one example, Drew is another, Joe Burrow, who hasn't even gotten his first check yet, Trevor Lawrence, that's big stuff. I hope we can build on that positively. But how about somebody who's fucked up like Drew? Drew fucked up, you know. So can that team, if you're a teammate, can that team move on? I was going to say, I mean, for my opinion, I think it's going to be a long road because

it's going to come into action, right? Because everybody's not so much buying it right now. I feel like the pressure of society is people who are probably going to feel like he was pressured into making a statement, right? It's him proven, it's going to have to prove it over time, right? Because right now he has 43 years of people saying, well, he's been pretty. He one day isn't going to change his ideology on privilege, right? We can't, that's because the pressure of society is almost like when he makes an opinion,

when he says something, it's almost like he's like a Manchurian candidate, right? Because he still has things that he wants to do in his career. So is he, is the intent of his words truly about change or is the intent of his words to not be seen as something that he really is? That is the real question that that's the moral question that he has to be. deal with on a daily basis. He can fool us with the end of the day. The light is going to shine in the darkness and everyone has to deal with what they've done in the dark. Yeah, and I think we know, like, you know, you play with Malcolm Jenkins. I know Malcolm. We know DeMario Davis on that team.

Like, I think those guys will initially be okay. Like, let's accept. But, like, those aren't guys who can hide their feelings or hide, you know, from the truth. You know, if it's not actions after the apology and those words, I didn't, I didn't read the full apology. But if there's no actions there, I think it's going to be extremely hard for those guys to just sit there and be like, well, let's just play football, you know, just knowing those guys. But I think ultimately, you know, if he does follow those actions, one thing that brings us all together when we get in that locker room is going out there to play football and winning games. So if he does, I think, I think they'll have a chance to be good. I mean, things happen all the time in our,

in our locker rooms. And I think it's the one space where people are open and have enough respect for each other to say, let's talk and figure this out. So, you know, I think there's definitely a chance. I thought it was a great illustration of just from my vantage point why certain gestures don't mean anything. You know, the black square, which, you know, I don't know how it started. I posted one because I'm like, okay, is this what I'm supposed to do?

I do it. You know, but I think it can be powerful. But then a Drew Brees post the black square and then the very next day. that interview comes out. Yeah. I mean, and you saw there was a lot of people, my wife pointed out to me,

a lot of people posted that black square and then they turned their comments off. Like, let me post my black square, but let me make sure that people don't see, you know, the people I follow their comment. And so people don't say,

well, why don't you respond back? So I think it was like you said, it was like, let's post this black square no matter how I feel. Like, I just want everyone to know, like, hey,

I'm in. I'm in for the cause. I support black people. But it's, like you said, there's zero substance in that. That's to be follow-up. Yeah. I think we all, I think it has to be follow-up too.

And we have to deal with like, and then people bring God into this, right? And we bring Jesus into this. We're at the point, right, where we're dealing with, where we have to connect to humanity, right? And we're talking about Jesus. And people forget that Jesus literally was executed by the state because it's religious beliefs. If you look at the Lord's Prayer, it's a religious, it's a political statement. and look at everything he's done that was about standing up

for people who didn't believe in. He was a man who took himself out of the materialistic society and became a man of the people. And I think we're dealing with people who are using great people, leaders' names in vain and not really understanding their message and what they experienced. They want to

experience the glory of those people's names and their statements, but they don't want to experience any of the pain. Nobody wants to have walked down the road of cavalry like Jesus did. But what comes with standing out is perseverance. is persecution, right? Because when you do something that's philanthropic,

you do some philanthropy, we talk about cancer, you talk about everything, you're going to get a pat on your back. But when you talk about something like race, there's a reason why people who talk about race have been killed, because race is the underlying fundamental issue

in American societies always has been, always will be at this point into something else changes. And as right now, a lot of white people are scared to really stand out on what they truly believe. Do they really, do people really believe that everybody's equal? I'm not sure if people really believe that. And the question is, it's their job to prove that,

prove that everybody's equal. And I think our white counterparts, it's important that they say that if I'm a human being, the reason why Joy Fuller matters to me is because he's a human being. At the end of the day, a human being died or human being lost his life, a human being does not have a child.

And that should mean something to each and every one of us on every single level. Before you go on, and I think that's a great point, because we just did a Bible study Wednesday. Well, we were in the book of Galatians. And we were at a scene where Paul's talking to Peter, and he's telling him, like, I get it.

And the Old Testament, this was only for the Jews. But now we have to accept the Gentiles. Like Jesus came to bring in people. Like Mike said, by him taking that walk down cavalry, he saved the poor. He saved the Gentiles, which was every race, not Jews. And that's for everyone. So I think that's one thing that I don't want.

to see people try to hide behind or use Jesus in a way and use Christianity in a way that they don't bring it all together. And I've been fortunate enough to, and you guys know Matthew Slater, and I thought he had a great point as a Christian and faithful man. He talked about that. He talked about his life and being in the church and having people use different, you know, whether it's verses or different books in a way that only promotes one type of thing and don't get to the heart issue where everyone needs to be accepted and it's in the Bible. Like it's right there for you. So I thought that was a great point you talked about, Mike. It's, you know, we've seen those examples of guys that I would deem in my eyes, real Christians. Okay, you could have whatever

opinion you want about organized religion, but I respect people who are consistent with what they say their values are. And you can kind of tell who's hiding behind it and who's leaning into it in a good way, you know, and saying, you know, my faith demands that I am compassionate and empathetic. And, you know, Mike, you mentioned something that really struck true with me. And before, because I know I'm not racist, but again, it's not enough to be just not racist. You got to be anti-racist. That's something that's been stressed this week. I'll see a video sometimes. And, you know, I saw a video this week where one of these sites was pumping out a video of this black dude who was essentially for three minutes humanizing himself, explaining, justifying why he's human. You know, like, I'm normal. I do

this. I do that. You know, I do things you do. If we have to humanize black people, how hard is this going to be? That's the point, though. It's like we had a point to like, we should, we, we at that point where we shouldn't have to prove our human, right, our human side. And in the historical context, Pessie versus Ferguson, we had to go and prove that in court. to see that we were actually human beings. So not three, fours human. We are a full being. Like, we wasn't considered as full beings.

And America's still suffering from their ideology, right? Because there's still people who grandchildren and father who suffer and told them about that. And they still devalue human lives. And I think when we look at people dying on camera quite honest and quite frank, I think it numbs us to the reality that when you watch it something online, we've become so unconscious in thinking that what we see online is, not a reality anymore, then we're not realizing that that's literally a person dying and

kids are watching a person dying. And what do you think that does to an individual who has to watch somebody look like him who died quite often? It creates a traumatic experience and a traumatic place to live, right, in your own skin. And when you can't go anywhere and everything about you is identified by the color of your skin, it becomes horrific. Yeah. And Joe, like we were just talking, you called me.

And one of the first things you said to me was, man, I just want to let you know, I've been praying for you. I'm sorry. You know, people that know, like, you know, me and my wife, we lost our third child. And that was something like for me, like that happens on Sunday. And then this week happens. And you go through all of this and like, you know, I'm almost like, man, I don't even want to deal with this right now. Like I don't want to deal any problems with the country. Like, I have my own problems with my own family.

And it opened my eyes. And I was like, you know what? You know how many people when me and my wife announced that it happened? and reached out to me, black, white, former teammates, coaches, like my friends, parents, like so many people reached out to me. And it was to that point, Mike just said, when I lose that baby, so many people are like, man, I'm so sorry because they put themselves in my position, like how crushed they would be. But when we turn on the TV and we see a black man executed in the street, a lot of people

don't turn and say, like, man, that could be my father, like me, my uncle, my cousin, And my best friend, like people don't see that. They're like, man, they just killed that guy. There's nothing. They don't get it. And I think until we start to have that where people are like, man, like that hits, that hits home. Like that's right next door to me. That's here.

It's always going to be a struggle. And, you know, I think for all of us on this call, it's easy. We're going to die trying to fix that. We're going to die talking about it. But we need everybody in there on that. And it's for us, for white people. and I've had these talks with my dad I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old

I know that a misunderstanding with police will never get them fucking killed you know I know that they'll never have to worry about an interaction with police and so I think one of the biggest things for white people is first acknowledging that if you can't acknowledge that I don't know maybe maybe there's no hope

but if you can acknowledge it you should want your peers to feel the same way. I mean, that's literally the goal of this exercise. Okay, you love America. You think it's great? Well, it is fucking great for you. It's not truly great, though, unless everybody feels how you do. And unless my friends, Dev, Mike, you know, can when their kids get driver's licenses and that sort of thing.

And their kids drive out of the driveway that they don't have to worry about this shit. But you mentioned it that the lights are on now, you know, like, and there's nowhere to hide, which puts athletes in a precarious situation, you know, like there's nowhere to fucking hide. And people know where you, they know where you stand, whether you speak or you don't speak, to a degree. And so what about white players that are maybe listening or, you know, white people that are listening?

Because as we learned today, it doesn't mean shit that we're a football team with Drew Breeze. You could be a coworker. You could be somebody who goes to church with people that don't look like you. what do you want from your white teammates? I think when we talk about the lights, right? I just to clarify, when we talk about the lights, I think that the real light was the COVID-19.

I think COVID-19 really shined a light on disparities in America. Like we saw people who were essential workers not having food, not having this, and we saw the racial disparities in America at its highest forms when we looked at the medical system. We looked at the unemployment. We looked at all these different things. The risk people were great. The poor people and brown people of America who were the most essential workers were dying at a higher rate, were suffering from not having food, not having shelter.

So I think the racial disparity of America was signed in the brightest light. And nobody could, it was, we couldn't argue these facts anymore. The facts that we used to argue like, oh, maybe that's not true. That's not true. Everybody felt what America and what people, underprivileged people were feeling, right? And I think now that George Floyd, it's even shining more light on the racial disparity with the police system. And I think for our white counterparts, I think they need to do some studying. I think white people need to do studying.

I think if they really looked at the historical things that have happened in history, they probably would look at Christopher Columbus a lot different. You know, maybe look at George Washington a lot different. Even Thomas Jefferson, you start to look at the history and you start to see it from the perspective of the other person, as Dad was saying. we're putting ourselves in other people's shoes. So I think that white people need to start studying it. As a black man, I can't tell you how to not be racist. I can't tell you how to be inclusive. I can't tell you any of those things.

That's a self-journesty journey. That's a self-awareness journey. I think African-American people had to conform myself to fit into certain areas, whether it was in sports or being coach, being told you to this, you do that, you do that. Basically, it's saying you're too black, right? So now it's a situation where people are flying out that it's like, you have to figure out your own journey to really find out why and why people are feeling this way. This protest, this George Floyd, these are history behind it.

And I think it's, I implore white people to go do some research. Please do. Go look at Emmettillo. Go look at Stephen Bico. Go look at Nelson Mandela, Patrice Lumamba. Go look at what happened to McGregner Everest when he was killed in front of his house. go look at what happened to and to those girls who will bomb

in Alabama. Go look at it. It's the history there. Look at it. You know, you talk about, we talk about Martin Luther King, but look at the history, how Martin Luther King was treated. How he was chased, how he was assassination attempts on his life. This is the man that you look up to. So I say do history, history check. Yeah, and I will just follow up with,

they need to do that, and then we need something to be fearless. We need you to speak up after you call and you're educated and you study and you know. And for some people, you might call your black friends and say, man, like I understand now. I get it. Speak up. Go out there. If you're an athlete, use your platform.

If you work in finance, if you do something else when you go to work, tell one of your coworkers, speak out. You know, I think it's great for them to educate themselves. And to me, that's the first step. And I think once they educate themselves, you have to be willing to be uncomfortable. Like, we can't have everyone just sitting there. bubble and not speak up. We can't have just the Chris Longs. But like you said, or the Carson Wentz who puts out a statement. And then if he jumps in for, like, we need more

people, you know, more people to speak up and help out what the calls. Don't just sit there with that education and what you've learned and not spread it to people. And there's no doubt for a white player, I look at the Carson Wentz situation. Somebody I always knew had it in him. Like, we know Carson's like if you play with Carson, he's a good guy. But you don't know if he has the intestinal fortitude to be that first one to step over the league. He said Nick Falls is better. Yes.

Well, as a sidebar, it seems like it kind of matters the team you're on too because it didn't go as well in Jacksonville. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just saying. You're the worst. We're trying to have a serious conversation. You want to divide Philly in half. I love both those motherfuckers. Let me both sides that. How about

that? No, there's no both siding on police brutality to me, but the Nick Foles, Carson Wentz debate. I'm going to straddle the fucking line like a champ. You know, you mentioned reading and MLK. I think that's so prudent for us because it makes you better able to have conversations with people that look like you and are going to question you at every turn because they want to resist change and understanding and acceptance.

So they're going to throw statistics at you talking points, ones that unfortunately like Drew Brees kind of pushed to the forefront a day ago, which I think people miss also, that you're basically arming people with an ideological shield, as we talked about. But you've got to educate yourself. I'm constantly trying to educate myself. And Mike is a great resource. Dev's a great resource. Players Coalition has been a good resource as well.

But Josh McCown, you know, he, I truly believe that Carson might have had all that potential in him to say what needs to be said. But without the example of a guy, like not only Malcolm, but to Mike's point, you know, it can't just all be on black people. people to solve racism or explain to you how not to be racist or to speak out. You need guys like Josh and I thought that was big. I thought he had something to do it. Another thing was the MLK thing you mentioned.

We love to quote MLK, don't we? It's like that's just our ace in the hole. You know, even when we want black people to not say what they're, that they need to say that we've got an MLK quote for that. But there was one that was circulating a lot this week that white people didn't like. And that was riots or the language of the unheard. So if you're just going to use MLK quotes on January 18th, maybe consider using them when they're not convenient for you.

But you know what it is? Because people don't understand that Martin Luther King was a radical person, right? He was, what comes when you are radical, you're changing the status quo to what you see in life. That doesn't come with being passive, aggressive. That becomes with radical thoughts, right? So Martin Luther King was a radical person. And people don't want him to be,

consider as a radical theologist, a radical man, a radical leader, a radical person, right? Because that incites that we as individuals to change the world, we need to be radical. And so by passive by dumbing his history down and his contribution to America by domining down by putting those weak quotes, it just says that you are saying that, oh, don't be that Martin King, be this passive one. don't have a radical thought. I mean, everybody, if you look at George Washington, he was radical. So it's like it's not uncommon for people to change the world.

The people who change the world are radical. So we're looking at the season. We're talking about, you know, me and Deb talked about this offline. There's going to be a conversation that's going to continue. And I don't think sports should make this conversation go away. I was talking to Mark Cuban about this two days ago and about how the NBA season is going to come. back. And the very thing that gives these guys a platform to speak out is going to bring so much

excitement that maybe it pushes the conversation out of the forefront. And that's what I worry about with football as well. But I know players will not let that happen. Do you guys see guys protesting again? What does the NFL have to do? Is there anything the NFL can do to prove that they're actually on the player's side because we're down this road away? Force the race can't to change the name. I think that's a one way. That's a one stop. That's a start right there. You send it league is not racist and you have a team that literally has a racial slur for its name, the red skins, what if it was the white skins or black skins or yellow skins? People would be upset. Like, you know, so that's, to me, that's one way.

Yeah, and I think there will be something. And I don't expect the league to get involved or do anything. I just don't. And I think players, I think as a whole players, I would hope we learned something that four years ago, we were all wrong. We should have jumped right on board with Kat and we all should have been down there taking a knee during the anthem because he was right. You know, you can't move a protest to make people feel comfortable. And I think, you know, I'm not saying guys are going to definitely take a knee, but I think guys need to think of something. We need to make people uncomfortable. We need people to understand, like, as a black man in this country, I'm uncomfortable every single day. Like, you're going to be uncomfortable for whatever time

period that I had this platform. And I think as players, one of the biggest ways we can benefit from that is not allowing any player to have to step out there like Cap did and join in and doing something that's unified. But, and I agree with you all the way, too. And I also think that the NFL has been miscued and misstep for over so many times because without inviting the players into the discussions about race and you just give something out. It doesn't give the players a voice. This is you saying something, right? And I think before,

they need to make sure that when they do decide to make a statement, they need to be more players involved. I know what the players coalition, those stuff you guys did, but at that time, it was, it was very, I mean, I feel like they need to do more and involving what do we, where do we go from here? And I think there needs to be a select group of players every year. They're a part of the change in the NFL. Like, they have these meetings, but players aren't a part of them. And I think we talk about race and moving the conversation, moving the needle for it. Players need to be involved with it. There's white and black players alike.

Maybe they hire Kat. What a way. Hire Kat's going and get his thoughts. No, that might be bad for Kat. I don't know, man. I'm still holding on to hope that maybe, you know, he gets a stab at this thing again, but they've almost created this self-fulfilling prophecy where, you know, at this point,

it is reasonable to wonder if he could play football four years removed, you know, like, but for the first three years. I know, Alden Smith was, hey, but you remember Alden Smith was bad motherfucker? So was Cap, but remember how good Alden Smith was? Those five years ago. Yeah, but I'm saying,

though, that's been so long ago, I'm saying? I'm saying that at the same time, there is he, I think he should be able to play, but I agree with you, like be taking long layoffs and coming back and to compete at this level, I wonder how I was going to go. But you saw his arm was pretty good last year. I thought he looked great. He was never a passing quarterback anyway.

He did a great pass and think, but he was more running quarterback. And as long as his legs are together, I think he should have a shot. I think him having a shot, though, it's up to him and how that works on what that looks like. Yeah, I think it would be good for the league. I mean, that's got to be if they can still get it done, not that you can undo the time it's taken to get here. But if they have an opportunity, you know, these teams should wise up. You know, he's not, he can not only help you on the football field, but he can help bring this league back together a little bit. I really believe that. But you have to make a decision

that you want the league to come together and not worry about the fallout with fans. Because what this is, you got to rip the Band-Aid off. That's what we've seen this week. I mean, like, this is something that's been going on for a long time. But I feel like what you said, Mike mentioned in COVID, you've got a captive audience. Enough is enough. The video was brutal. And nobody can hide right now. There's no other stories in the world.

So I think that, you know, Cap would help us move things along. And I think when you say put a bandad, I'll see that to me, nothing is what you said. but I also think the Band-Aid is just a flesh, like we're putting something out the flesh. We're dealing with something so spiritually, something so spiritual. We are dealing with people who have wounds spiritually. And those are, and that's the part of America's fabric and America's story for not reconciling the historical trauma has done to African-American people over the time. And I think the NFL, if you look at the history of the NFL, and I got mad, Dev member there's too when we was at the Hall of Fame and that guy started talking and I had to go,

everybody, the whole team looked back at me, like, what are you going to say? But I had to pull them back because for some reason the NFL thinks that it's been so progressive when it comes to race. When we really look at it, the NFL has not been progressive. The fact that we have to point out, oh, we have had one and we had two, that's not progression to me. progression is when we have a lot of people who look like the people who work there, right? And that is really an authentic way to tell if we really have to change.

And the government is the same way. But the government is supposed to represent and govern the people that look like it, right? Look like itself. And unfortunately, America is made up of a whole bunch of different people, but the system is only a government and the system only works for a certain amount of people. Everybody else is oppressing. So we're dealing with something so fuck. up, it's really kind of crazy.

It is crazy and it has been a long week. Again, I appreciate you guys so much, you know, not just for the conversation we've been able to have and being able to having an opportunity to listen to you guys, but that you would follow up and come on the pod because evidently all my other friends hate me. So we're not getting paid for this? No, no, no. I haven't gotten the Joe Rogan deal yet.

You see he got the $100 million deal? Yours is coming, bro. Yeah. How long is for, four years? I don't know how long it's for. I didn't want to get mad and read this. Although, you know, it's one of those things, guys. It's like, you know, when somebody gets a big contract,

you can be mad about it or think that he might be helping you out. Yep. Yep. So. All in how you see it. Guys, do you guys want to plug your podcast as well real quick? Oh, definitely. You know, Jason, my brother, twin brother.

We have the double coverage podcast. We go Sunday night. We actually film one today, a live one. So check that out. We talk about everything, sports. Well, not lately, but we've been talking about this stuff. But it's a good time. We just chill out, drink some wine, have a good time.

I've been on there. It's like a more popular to the shop, in my opinion. No, LeBron, no. Wine, the whole nine yards. It's great. Mike, what about yours? Damn. Mine's just called Mouthpieces. It's a podcast of my wife. And it's about, I was just looking at this Joe Rogan show. He did get $100 million. I don't do better. The podcast is called

mouthpieces with me and my wife, Pelle Bennett. And we talk about all things about raising, our kids in America, talking about race, politics, sex, and just living in this world and just be good people. I think the thing that makes our podcast really good to me is that we have disagreements. We don't always agree with each. other. I think we respect, we disagree. We have some civility within that. So I enjoy it. Mike, can you do a podcast on the fact that you never drove yourself home from work one day in Philly and made me give you ride home every single day, although it was out of my way? Those reparations.

I hate you. That's a good answer, bro. Well, I got off pretty cheap. It's not like my FJ's a gas guzzler. you know Mike Dev love you guys I really appreciate you guys and um and thanks for coming on thanks for having us man appreciate what you do bro