Green Light with Chris Long - Michael Bennett! On NFL Career, Retirement & Mental Health in Sports.

Episode Date: July 22, 2022

(2:30) - Time in Seattle, Super Bowl Memories and Dismantling of the Seahawk Defense. (16:00) - Playing While Injured, Jimmy G and Baker Mayfield, Memories of Chris and Mike in Philly and Favorite Young NFL QBs. (37:19) - Expectations of NFL Coaches and Building Successful Cultures. (43:00) - Accepting Retirement, Making the Transition from Football to Retirement and Mental Health in Sports. (1:11:56) - Worldwide Travel and Naked and Afraid. Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light Tube YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenLightTube1 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. https://www.greenlightpodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Download the app, bet big, win bigger. And I got to tell you, I really like the sound of that. And with win bet, it's just that easy. Win bet has what you need to win. So if you're from Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Tennessee, or right here in Virginia, sign up today to receive this special offer. New users can take advantage of win bets, bet $50 to win $200. Just bet $50 and win $200 in free bets.

Download the win bet. app now or visit WynNBET.com. Download the app, bet big, and win bigger. Let's get after it. Terms and conditions apply must be 21 or older and present in a state where win bet is available. Gambling problem in Arizona, call 1-800 next step. In Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey, and Virginia call 1-800-Gambler. And in Michigan, 1-800-2707-1-17-8-9. Tennessee, y'all too, 1-8009-9-7-89. Welcome to the Greenlight-Light podcast. Cowboy. Michael Bennett is today's guest, Chris and Mike run through a whole host of topics.

Mike recaps his time in Seattle, talks Super Bowl memories and the splitting up of the Seahog defense. He also gives his opinions on a couple of quarterbacks, Baker, Jimmy G, and some of the young guys in particular. And then Chris and Mike have a great conversation about retirement, transitioning away from football and mental health and sports. It's a great deep conversation. You'll enjoy it. And I hope you enjoy your day.

So I got my good friend much more than a football. player that's why I love him Michael Bennett and we talk a lot like we we face time you know I'd say we we get a good 30 minute face time maybe once a month which is really good it's good for this it's good for the soul dude no it's definitely great for the soul because it's like you don't know a lot of people who are have been through what you've been through as far as the NFL but it's not like I know when I get on the phone with you it's like it's comedic it's therapeutic it's everything so it's a it's a joyful moment when I get a face time for you because you're like very precise you're like Michael, I got 30 minutes.

I can't get you. I know you keep you on the phone for a fucking hour. You will too, bro. Now I'm going to keep you on the phone for a fucking hour because I have you. This is payback. No, but the thing is like we're wired different. We get kind of where we've been, how we're wired. And like, I think being able to relate to each other's problems after football and just the

things that annoy us, you know, it's nice to have. It's really good. And I'm going to ask you about retirement a little bit and all that. But like one thing you realize in retirement is that there's nothing wrong with the people you're around, but they just don't 100% get you all the time. Mm-hmm. I agree with you 100%. Like I think it's the way that you are. I think too, like you respect process so much.

And like even doing the podcast, like you're doing it. You're doing it just like you did for the NFL. Like you're preparing the same way. You're doing everything the same way because it's about process and have been disciplining something. And sometimes when you have had process and discipline and. people around you don't have the same discipline in the process. Like, it starts to know you a little bit. You're like, wait, if you're going to do it, do it all the way.

So, but at the same time, as we talk to other people who have experienced NFL or experienced something similar to you, it's just like this brotherhood and this camaraderie around just life, you know, like what is life actually like outside of or under the helmet. So that's why I enjoy having conversations with you and people like Cliff or so. And, and Rob Quinnney always called you, you called me. Bob. What you do? I know. He's the richest person that dresses the weirdest. I'm like, why is your shirt wrinkle?

I'm like, I'm sure you worked $100 million. Bob, why, why is your shirt wrinkle? Yeah. Marty, your brother told me I was homeless chic in New England, so I'm glad that somebody else holds the title. I guess it's Rob Quinn, who, by the way, had 19 last year, whatever it was in Chicago. People thought he was dead. He had 19. Yeah, but I think with, then it's like a big transition that he had, you know, being a four, three defense minutes, switch it to three, four. That takes a moment because it's such a different, you know, type of football, used to just going, dropping the coverage. But Rob is literally one of the best pass rushers I ever played with, honestly, just as far as like Ben. I think there's like different qualities of pass rushes that I play with.

But I think he has the most bend out of any pass rush that ever played with, like the ability to just twerk his body. away on his twirk that embodied that sounds weird but he knows how to like bend his body in ways that seem unhuman you know what I mean his arms are super long and it's like it's hard it's just like wow he does that it's pretty pretty impressive so and if you watch him walk it makes sense because his toes point directly at each other and so like he's genetically engineered to be able to run the corner if he runs straight he's running a hoop yeah and he's fast too bro like I seen him chase down on the backside play when I was winning with the Cowboys

and I'm like, wow, Rob is super fast. Like, he's a freak athlete. And sometimes I think about what were the Rams thinking when they had a defensive line like that and didn't win the Super Bowl? Like, you got Chris Lowe, Robert Quinn, Michael Barker,

Aaron Donald, William Hayes. Like, William Hayes was a monster. He was a monster, dude. He was the most, the most underrated players in the NFL than I ever watched play. Be like, well, this guy. Jolandumbar,

remember he was coming down, knocking people out. Like, you guys had, he was a dog. Well, I'll tell you how our offense, dude,

that's the whole thing. We had some games where we were both scored in the single digits. You guys always found a way to win somehow when it was nine to seven, 17 to nine,

13, 10. I hate cutting against you guys, though, because I was like, damn, they got 11 sacks right now. So, he's sick as night in the third quarter. Well, part of that was Russ.

So this is perfect because part of that was Russ. People are always like, well, How do you feel about Russell Wilson? I'm like, well, he made me a lot of money because Russ tries to create. And, you know, Russ is not afraid to get sacked. Russ is not afraid to extend the play.

And I think, you know, like one of the things I wanted to ask you about was not only Russ in a new home, but Bobby Wagner in L.A., Russ in Denver. You know, you got Dan Quinn in Dallas. Like KJ. Wright in Vegas, these are all, you know, that historic group of defenders from your era in Seattle. the L-O-B era, and it's crazy when you retired to see your friends like dispersed? Yeah, it's like, damn, that thing just doesn't exist anymore. How weird is that?

It's super weird because everything has a shelf life. I never thought that I see Russell Wilson and another jersey. Just the fact that what he met, how he, what he meant to the cities, you know, just as far as like his charitable giving, you know, his accessibility to fans, the jersey sales, being the most winnings quarterback in Seattle. history, passing, Russian, just this dominant force, you know, just outside of sports, but just a dominant human being in that arena. So just him leaving. I don't know, I still have mixed emotions about it. Like, seeing him play in Denver, like, knowing how we beat the mess,

the breaks off of Denver in the Super Bowl. When I paid money a long time ago, you remember that? No, I remember my producer, Reid, who's a Broncos fan, remembers that. What's one thing you remember about that Super Bowl? Like, besides the score or maybe the bad snap to start the game, where you're probably thinking, I mean, I was watching at home. I'll tell you where I was watching. Let me answer the question for you first and break a podcast rule. I was sitting in a hotel room in South Beach, drunk, hating you guys watching that game. And as soon as the fucking snap went over Peyton Manning's head to start the game,

I was like, damn it, they're going to win the Super Bowl. The biggest moment I think of the Super Bowl was even, not even the game. It was that we were training at the New York Giants facility. And we were in their defensive room walking through their defensive, It was like, we saw what they had on the board, like what they thought successful as it was like, average give up 150 rushing yards or through this many passing yards or, you know, like told the team to under 21 points. And our head, we're like, that's what the fuck y'all thinking about right here? We're thinking about zero. We're thinking about 20 yards rushing.

We're thinking about 50 yards passing. And I knew we were different because that was the inside of what other people were going to leave and what their standard was. And I knew our standard was completely different. And I knew when we played them, it would be different because they hadn't seen anything or somebody who had their attitude that didn't want to give up anything. I think, but going back to what you said about Russell, it feels that like, I feel that P is starting over. And it's like, do you keep the player or do you keep the coach?

Who's the one that's calling the shots? And sometimes I feel that the players go from back and forth and they leave and coaches leave. But I feel like Russell Wilson was just like, I don't know, I just feel like, I don't understand. don't see how the Seahawks can win at a high level without the quarterback, you know what I mean, without having that type of quarterback, that type of offense, and in that type of presence on defense, I think you think about Bobby Wagner, he's equivalent to Russell Wilson when it comes to lead in the defense and doing things right. So my having Bobby Wagner just seems like, it just seems

so different to watch the Seahops. It's like watching, you know, somebody, impersonators do temptation, sons and dances or watching a Michael Jackson impersonation. It's just like, it's person negative. We know that Michael Jackson is definitely probably the most talented musician to walk the planet. We talk about impact and people copy him and his influence on the game, his ability. Michael Jackson's been dead for like, how many years? I think it's been, this man's been 13 years. This man made $300 million last year. You know what I mean? Like, he's dead. He's one of the highest grosser people. Like, it's just, that's insulting to the rest of us. Like, there's a dead person walking around, make him weigh more money than us.

He doesn't even have life, you know what I mean? I was like, Michael Jackson and Elvis made how much money last year? That's crazy, dude. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, but Bobby, I feel like that Bobby, losing Bobby was definitely hit. I know, but it's like linebackers. You know the linebackers have like a short,

they have a time frame similar to running back sometimes where it's like they can lose the step pretty fast. But I feel like Bobby pretty much kept longevity, even though it's just cap number was super high. I still think the impact that Bobby brings to the defense and the leadership that he brings of defense is definitely something that I probably would have kept around. When you talk about bringing in a young team and I have a true leadership on defense, let's talk about Jamal Adams.

And he didn't play very much. And there's definitely some, you know, some critiques out there as far as coverage and being able to make big plays on the plays of being needed. So I feel like Bobby was a big playmaker and also a great leader. And I think just giving that when you let, when a defensive back is the leader of the team, to me, it kind of changes the philosophy of the time. team. I think when you definitely, it's nice that DBs to be leaders, but it's also great when you have

your front being the leaders of the defense because they're the ones who are on trenches and they're ones who are making, who are driving the league and driving the game. It's interesting because I think about Pete Carroll, he's never, I mean, this is the first rebuild he's had to preside over in a long time. And that takes a different skill than keeping something rolling, right? Like to rebuild, to start from the ground up.

Because like you said, when you part ways with your two quarterbacks, Bobby Wagner and the quarterback, you've got to kind of figure out who you are again. And I wonder if that's tough, can you see Pete Carroll in that role? Do you think he's a guy who can rebuild something? I mean, because that takes a different, he's older, you know? Part of that is you get rid of some of your leaders. I don't know if that's the worst thing either if you're starting to rebuild because you got to start over, right? And if you got guys who have been there for 10 years like this is the way we do things, this is the way I want to do things, then you're not going to be button heads with Bobby or Russ.

You can just start over the way you want to start over. I think that's every dictator wants anybody who's challenging the dictatorship to be shot and brought into the middle of the street and reminded of this is what happened. Or said to the L.A. Ram. But the L.A. Ram is actually a great team. No, I know. I'm like he ended up on top. But I also think to have a critique on the scene. The Seahawks is that they haven't had a good draft.

You know, it's been a while since they have drafted some, a player and had them come in and make a great impact. So it's like there's been a lot of misses as far as management as far as drafts and trades and to really come out. You think about the trade for Jamal Adams. Those are a lot of picks. And when you get out of the year, you got nine sacks, but also two, your defense isn't as good as it once was. You know, I feel like not invested in the front and the offensive line. And the defense line is where I felt that Seattle has failed over the last couple of years. So I think this is about also how do you draft and what are you drafted and who's going to be impact.

I think you have D.K. Metcalfe, you have Tyler Lockett, you know, and then outside of that, you kind of like, okay, those, where are the other people that? You have Rashad Penny come in. He's missed two and a half years. But the last year, the last four games, he rushed for 700-something Nards. So he's a great player. But at the same time, what are you going to do about drafts? after those people to be those Star Wars, you know, those people who are forever to lead, you know, your Aaron Donnas, your Joe Barrows, those people that changed your program. We can't say that we saw that with Seattle yet, you know. So nothing against Drew Lockett, but man, me and Drew Lockett about the same when it come to quarterback wins right now, you know what I'm saying?

No, I, Drew Locker. I wondered when when they let Bobby go the way it went down, I never asked you. you, like, were you surprised by that? Well, I'm not surprised because I think every player comes into a point where their tenureship with the team is over, you know what I'm saying? So it happened to Tom Brady. So it's like if a man can get touch, we all can get touch. You know what I'm saying?

So at the end of day, everybody has their shelf life. It ends up. So I'm not surprised if they got rid of Bobby. They were. But the way they did it because they didn't, you know, there was some discrepancy on the communication. Like, you know what I mean? That's the player's fault. That's the player's fault. Because at the end of day, if you're a player and you're thinking at the, can I cuss? Yeah. You think it at the fucking organization is going to be looking out for your best interest.

Then you're naive and you're living in a utopia. At the end of the day, the organization doesn't owe you anything. They're not going to call you and say, hey, you're so special that we wanted to say, thank you. No, they cut you just like they cut anybody else. This is the most cutthroat business on the planet, you know, where they're getting rid of people, they're doing things besides Apple and Amazon. We're like 30, you know what I'm saying? Like, we're 30 and cutthroat, you know? So, like, you know, there's always a lawsuit against the NFL.

There's always a lawsuit against teams. You've seen it. You've seen where guys have been injured and teams that, you know, you tell young guys, if you injure, stay injured, you know, they go out there. Oh, no, team wants me to play. And the training gets you to go out there and run. As soon as they catch you on tape and run, they cut you.

So it's like, you know how dirty the NFL could be when it comes to how they get rid of people and having the catpits, you know. Do you think the Baker Mayfield thing is an example of Baker Mayfield, you know, him playing hurt and that sort of thing? Is that a good lesson? I've been talking about this a lot of my podcast, like don't play hurt and expect them to pat you on the back for playing hurt. They're not going to take that into a game. Don't play hurt and play terrible. Yeah. That's what you don't do.

You play hurt when you're Michael Jordan. That's different. You play hurt and you win the game by and left foot, you throw 10 touchdowns. That's different. You go out there and play hurt and you look trash. That's on you. I think the thing with Baker Mayfield is that Baker Mayfield didn't win. He did not win.

They put everything around him to win. And unfortunately, Deshawn Watson is just a better quarterback when it comes to win and talent and putting up numbers. Baker Mayfield is a good quarterback, but average it best when it comes to athleticism, average it best when it comes to arm strength. He's a good, good winner. He went to a great, he's been on great teams and great organizations. If you think about even college, a Texas tech, he wasn't that player. But Oklahoma, when he surrounded about all great players and they were overpowering team,

he was easy for him to win. But in NFL, all teams are not made equal. I'm not saying Baker deserved to be the quarterback of the future for the Browns. I think everybody realized that he was always going to leave something to be desired, right? And that's the hard thing about the quarterback position. You need that guy to be elite more than likely to win a Super Bowl. So you're always going to want more out of a guy who's a seven out of ten. Being a seven out of ten as a quarterback is nothing to be.

be ashamed of. There's only fucking 20 of those guys who are any good in any given year. But what I'm saying is his court of public opinion, his approval rating, even from people that knew he wasn't the second coming of Christ, changed a lot. His likability changed a lot. Like people around the league, I would say his approval rating general public is probably south of 30 percent. And it's because he played hurt, not because he wasn't great. I think it's more because he wasn't great. He took a risk and he looked even worse. And people don't take that into account and say,

oh, this guy was, he was limping around or his shoulder was falling off. He shouldn't have been out there. Yeah, that's his own fault, though. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And that's the mistake. I don't know if you've ever made that mistake. I've made that mistake in my career.

I definitely made that mistake before being out there. And the whole thing is, like you said, you're your own business, you're your own company. And the best thing is to protect yourself. And there's no position more protected than the quarterback. So why did you put yourself at a high risk when the team, when the team is not seeing you with their value? First of all, they're not looking, they don't see you. They didn't give you a new deal.

You know, you got Josh Allen and I get a new deal. You got all these quarterbacks around you getting new deals. And so you think that you can prove some to them. But it's like once they don't have the belief in you, the NFL, when they're in there making, you're thinking about one season. They're already thinking about 2025. You know what I'm saying? So it's like you're playing checkers and they play a chess. So they've been looking for a quarterback that they've done.

they can lead them because they know they got talent. You look at the Cleveland Browns, they've been, they've had some of the most talented team looking at, you know, offensive line, look at defensive line. They got pro bowlers everywhere, but they just don't win. And you look at a team like the Patriots, who's the opposite of that, that don't have all the pro bullers, but they win. And you're wondering, how do they win?

So I feel like for them, they feel that Baker Mayfield can't get over the hump. But then you got somebody like Ryan Tannenhill, who to me is similar skill level when it comes to quarterback position. I would say that Ryan Tennonahill, Baker Mayfield, will probably equal when it comes to talent, I think. And but at the same time, Ten Hill's found a way to win over the last couple years. Yeah, I remember, and I remember way back when Tan Hill got paid,

and you probably feel the same way. Like, it's too much money. I mean, we were talking about this and all that, but, like, you're right, the difference is that he's found a way to win. And the way you kind of summed up Baker Mayfield a second ago with all those pro bowlers around him, kind of sounds like he's living in a white neighborhood. And he still hasn't gotten a chance to get it.

He still hasn't gotten it done in the white neighborhood. Yeah, yeah, he's being gentified now. Black people are moving and he got to be in the worst position ever. He's got in the whitest position and a black person taking a position in the contract, getting the keys to the city. America has truly changed.

Yes, yes. But I think that's the NFL you look at. That's the thing, you know. But I feel that the difference between Tannenhill and Baker Mayfield is I feel like Tannenhill has led really heavy on that run game. And he doesn't take risk as much as I feel like,

Baker Mayfield. Baker Mayfield thinks he's somebody else when it comes to passing. He tries to thread the two people coming through. Tentil who doesn't do that. It's like, if you ain't do the corner route and he ain't completely open, he's not throwing a ball to you. He doesn't take a lot of risk. And by doing that, he's been a great game controller. And truly, somebody who's

less talented, he's done more with his talent than a lot of quarterbacks who have more talent. Him and Jimmy Galapico. Jimmy Galapagos, yeah, Jimmy Galapagos. Well, then, too, I got no choice here. I'm going to ask you really hard question and then I'm going to ask you a question that's maybe not so hard

would you just mention jimmy j and you mentioned ryan tan hill here's the really hard question marty and jules said you know two of my buddies one of them's your brother said that jimmy was in so many words soft for sitting out of that game i think it was the fourth game of our season in 2016 because his shoulder was fucked up i guess marty's issue might have been that he waited too long to say that he wasn't playing how do you feel about that because i'm kind of He's smart. Yeah. He was smart then because at the same time, he did what's best for him and look at how

that's turned up. He just went to win an NFC championship, a Pro Bowl. He's made a lot of money. I mean, they're still trying to move from him. And then you look at the quarterback that they're trying to change him for. I got to say, when I watched that quarterback, the young one under him, I was not impressed. Oh, they're hiding him. Like when you haven't seen that, we haven't seen much of this guy, dude.

So I'm just, I'm a little bit worried about that. But that's it. I wish Marty was here because we could have a really good conversation about that. And then, because I tend to agree with you, like, protect yourself. You know what I mean? From a Morto's perspective, it's like, then it goes down to the individuality of a sport. And then it comes down to, like, this team relationship that you have with guys. It's like, the reason why you play hurt is because you felt that the guys around you needed you.

So that made you do something more than that. So it feels like, yeah, it's smart that he did that, but that could disconnect you from your team. Because when your teammates seen you play through injury, that builds a lot of camaraderie because that shared. Even that last season that we played together, man, your back was hurting, your hip was hurting. You saw me, my toe looking like a goddamn. Yeah, that's just ugly, dude. You're not going to be a foot model, dude. We played, we played.

We played. And that was because it was like that relationship that we had with the rest of our teammates to know that everybody out here is feeling something. Everybody's injured. And you're going to go through the motions of making sure that to let you know that I'm not going to let my brother down. And even in the Bible that says the true love is to know that you'll lay yourself. lay your life down for your brothers. And that's the truth about football. And that's when the truth,

when people really feel like you're part of the team. But for like Jimmy G., in a sense, maybe he was really the smart one. Like, you know what? I'm going to protect myself, you know? He's like Kyrie Irvin. Carri Irving stays out the game all the time. Yeah.

Yeah, he does. One's got a little bit of a higher skill level than the other. But you're right. You make a really good point about Jimmy G. Like, say he goes into that game and he fucks his shoulder up worse and gets us to three and one or four and, or no or whatever it was.

That year we won the Super Bowl and we had home field advantage running away by a game or two. I think it was a game at least. You know, and all those games matter, you know, because you could be playing at home or you could be going on the road and it could be predicated on did Jacoby play game four that season.

But at the same time for the individual, look at what he's been able to do as you just outlined. He's made a fuck ton of money. He's been able to support his family. Well, he doesn't have one right now, but at some point he might knock one of these porn stars up. Did you see him out there taking porn stars out? to dinner in San Francisco?

So he's on his Tiger Woods right now. Okay, but he's protecting, he's supporting whoever he has to support by earning that money. And on his new team, he seems to be really loved. So I think it, you know, it's, there's a lot of nuance here. Yeah, because Jimmy G is the ease. But then it's also too, like, so, for example, it also depends what team you're on. We know if you play for the Patriots and you play, you're hurt. Most likely they're just going to move on.

You're not going to get all the money that you want. It's not like a situation like you playing for the Washington commanders or somebody like there or Miami Dolphins where you know like they pay you regardless. So it's like that's not that situation. And it's not the NBA situation where you can not play in games and still get the money you pay because of your potential. The Patriots are going on for are you available and are you available for cheap? They're truly the American corporation mentality.

And it works. It does. Look at the amount of output that they've got. You know what I mean? Look at the output that they're getting from the workers, the belief system, to build a culture where people put themselves second and put the idea first. The ideology that they're building. The culture is something that's super special.

And it's a lot harder when you're an older guy because you're coming in from a new, you're coming from different a place. And so you're not used to all these history or these rituals that they're doing. So it's just different. But if you start there, that's a good place to start because you learned the ability of, you know, how to play with a team. I think what's really hard is you get older in the league, you become more of who you are.

Like you become set in stone, like your individuality kind of grows. And the longer you become an individual and you figure out who you are, you end up somewhere like New England where you have to kind of adhere to a lot of those customs. You have to give up some of your individuality. And I think that's the hardest part.

Not working hard, not a physical camp. I don't give a fuck about any of that. I've been through it, dude. You know, we came in a league before the CBA change. Yeah, it's just like all of a sudden you were a nine technique and they want you to play ahead of four and you can't get off the block. Yeah. And you're like, God damn, like, you know what I'm saying?

So it's just all about what team for me. Like, Philly was a great organization for me because it fits right to my skill set. It's like that's a situation. And you got to coach and Coach Peterson is really easy to, you know, he works for veterans really well. You know, it's a veteran team. So it's like, somebody like me and you that comes in with injuries. that comes in with things happening,

just working with our body. He's going to work with you, you know, like, shit. He didn't work with me. I love Doug, but I didn't get a day off.

Oh, that's your own fault. No. No. No, dude. I didn't get day off either. I didn't get day off. You took a couple days off,

motherfucker. There were some days where you walked in and I was so mad at you because you'd be like, you'd be walking through the hall limp and I'm like, get rid of that limp, dude.

God damn. How many reps am I taking today? Because if you were out, it was my ass. And we used to be like, how's Mike feeling today? We need Mike out there, dude. I'm not ready to take 12 plays inside ride. Because after all that, then you're going to ask me for a ride home.

Yeah, yeah, I'm not. But you used to give me a ride home. Those are the best conversation, though. I got to say I love Seattle, but my year in Philly, that was the most fun I ever had in general, just with a group of guys. Like, bro, we had such a good time. Like, eating, red, in the room. room like jokes bro you take the hell i still remember that video when you used to have me try to get in

the car so so so people know so people so mike used to park there's a couple things mike used to do and i've talked about this on this podcast plenty of times because it's one of my favorite things mike gets to two guys that we wish we'd played each other with each other a lot longer because we always we always liked each other's game and like you know dapped up after those rivalry games out and out west finally end up on the same team come to find out that means i'm gonna have to give this motherfucker ride home every day because he's too cheap to buy a car he stays at this beautiful luxury hotel you know the entire season but he doesn't have enough money to scrouch for uh to splurge on a fucking rental car even he would always come to work expecting that somebody was going to give him ride

home and i was always the last guy there and we both lived in the city so he'd just be walking in the film room like hey man you leave in soon and i'd be like i'm i'm here another hour and a half he's like i'll just hang out instead of fucking getting a new home. He would wait 90 minutes to ride in the car with me. And when I tell you, dude, didn't we run out of gas? We got lost and ran out of gas in the city? I think we was on the wrong side of Philly too. We were definitely on the wrong side. But we had each other. We had each other. Yeah. We had each other. And then the other thing was- Then our phone died. Yeah. Our phones were dead. We had no gas. We were lost. It was 1987. Dude, I'm

looking at fucking, I'm, I got roadmaps and shit, talking to strangers, hitchhiking. We're like, are we supposed to do this out of Philly right now? No, but then the funniest shit was every time Mike would get a wild hair and actually drive into work, he'd park like a complete asshole. And our spots were right next to each other because, you know, in the NFL, if you're a vet, you get like, you get the closest spot to the building. So me and Mike, you know, same year the whole thing. So we kind of, we'd have the, you know, spot three and four, because Sproles and JP, they're like 45.

So they, they're like the oldest, right? But we're like, we're the second tier of old guys. But Mike would always straddle that fucking line with his little, his little Chrysler 300C that he rented. And so what I would do is I'm not going to not park in my spot. I parked Mike's driver's side in so tight, dude. You couldn't fit a fucking, you couldn't fit a piece of paper between, the way I parked next to you. So we just camped out after work with a video camera.

We recorded Mike trying to climb into his car through the passenger side. That was some of the funniest shit ever, dude. We had some good times. Let me be fair. The reason why I didn't have a car, I did have a car. I was a rental car where my wife was using it. And I was living in a city. So Uber was like $5.

So I just Uber to work was cheaper. But then you live right next door to me. Like I was. I don't know about right next door, dude. For people in Philly, I was like, For people in Philly, you were where? I was in Rinn. I was in, I was, no, you were on the outskirts. You were on like the other side of the square, which is a long way away from where I was Walnut Street.

So, so anyways, you can't say that, that I never did anything nice for you in Philly, Mike. I started taking athletic greens because I wanted to see what all the hype was about with one delicious. scoop of athletic greens you're absorbing 75 high-quality vitamins, minerals, whole-foods, superfoods, probiotics, and adaptogens. This special blend of ingredients supports your gut health, your nervous system, your immune system, your energy, recovery, focus, and aging. To make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a free one-year supply of immune-supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase.

All you have to do is visit athletic greens.com slash greenlight. Again, that is athletic greens.com slash greenlight to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. I just want to finish with this on football, on like the hardcore football. Because all these times we talk, we never actually talk about football. This is really interesting. Okay, I'm going to name some quarterbacks under 26. We know Michael Bennett hates quarterbacks. He doesn't like when they get paid.

He sacked a lot of them. Just Sam Bredford. Fuck you. That's my buddy. So fuck you on my podcast I'll just say this. Fuck you. I disagree.

But 26 and under, 26 and under, you've got to sign a 10-year deal with one of these quarterbacks. The money's going to be good. They're going to be there, right? Justin Herbert. My answer too, dude.

I didn't even have to name him. We got Lamar, Herbert, Kyler, Borough, Hertz, Mac Jones, Trevor, yeah, it's Justin Herbert, dude. What's... The dude, he's just natural. It's just like,

The skill level is just ridiculous. The throws that he makes is just this guy's athletic. He's tall and he's strong. I mean, he's the makeup of you want to a quarterback, you know? Like, I mean, the defense of, I feel like the San Diego Chargers could be a little bit stronger, but that offense with him out there, I mean, that guy is just, that guys, I mean, he goes, he's the next, he's the next, he's the next grade. He is.

He's already. It's just the team has to clean it up around him a little bit. Like, I think that coach is fine in his way a little bit. bit and I think the offense needs to change a little bit next year, but I'm looking at this guy play and I've never had so much fun watching a quarterback play as I've enjoyed watching Justin Herbert. Like it's theater, dude. The balls that come off his hand are just different. You know, like there's some guys where you do. And the crazy thing is I watched the combine and he was missing a lot in those drills. But then everything is on a frozen rope right on time in the right place in the NFL.

he makes all the throws outside the numbers. You know, the bomb. The big throws, the tight throws, the throws that you like, nobody can make that. I mean, Josh Allen, I feel like Josh Allen, too, is an amazing quarterback. He definitely one of the best quarterbacks, right? Because it's like, but then there's moments where he just makes mistakes and you're just like, why, though? It's like, Josh, why? But talent-wise, it's just moments where you're just like, come on, Josh, just don't keep it, you know.

He doesn't have that Tom Brady. I mean, the Tom Brady to know when there's defeat, you know, when there's time to pull away. and when it's time you know, to just walk and throw the ball or not take a sack or down it or whatever.

Yeah. But I think, yeah, but I would say, but Lamar Jackson too. I think Lamar Jackson, when I look at Justin Herbert his ability to throw,

I always think about Lamar Jackson, his ability to run the ball. It is just fascinating. I don't think we've ever seen, I mean, there's been Michael Vic and all these people,

but I would say that even Cam Newton, he was great at running, but he was like a powerful runner. Michael Vic had Greeks. Man, Lamar Jackson is like just, he's like a flash. It's like he's gone back, back, back. I'm not too high on Kyle Murray just yet because the big games,

I haven't seen him do it in the big games. The games where he's supposed to throw for $500, he definitely throws for $500. But like the games, when it's like the true tight games against the great teams, I just haven't seen it yet. It's interesting because when all these quarterbacks that we grew up playing against and more so watching, like the guys that all retired in a cluster, you know that Philip Rivers Eli Manning, Tom Brady

all those dudes Drew Breeze they're all gone now and you wondered like will the league be in good hands there's almost more exciting quarterback play now I'm not saying it's better but I'd rather watch Josh Allen play 10 out of 10 times over Drew Breeze nothing against Drew Breeze

I just love watching that big athletic sucker take chances and the same thing with Herbert so it's a lot of fun to watch quarterbacks now I think it's almost like Josh Allen is Cam Newton just with like a better arm. You know, like he has a better arm. He has a better throne.

But running wise, it's kind of the same type of running that powerful. Can't get him down. He's super strong, you know. So, but, you know, I enjoy watching him play. I mean, I never really enjoyed watching Eli Manning play. It was just like he was not enjoying the player to watch. I enjoyed rushing him. By the way, we both finished with like the same amount of sacks and everything.

I think we're like a half off. I want to officially give you half of one of my sacks. And let's tie at 69.5 because I think you had half of that sack in 2018 against Eli Manning, bro. And I appreciate you not. I don't know if you turned it in or not, but this was a day. No, you did. No, I didn't. Yeah, you're a good friend.

You're a good friend. But you were thinking about it. No, I thought about it. But then I also thought that, like, we're going to play them again. But also, too, I felt that season. Like, you helped me all a lot. You made me a bread of Russia for sure. Shit, you don't say that. Look at us. Just look at us.

You didn't get a better rush of that year because it was like I had to learn a new skill thing. And it was like sometimes you get to this old trick of how to rush or do things. You kind of stay there. But it was like this moment of like, okay, there's a challenge to elevate my game. And then it was like, okay, it felt good to get there and do that. You and me, you and me, off into the sunset, tied up, dude, tied up off into the sunset. I bet you, I bet you, I bet you flesh misses us. I bet flesh misses us. He misses that inside pressure.

He definitely misses us, bro. We get Fletch, Fletch, man. Fletch, you know. Fletch, you know. Fletch, you know. We basically are responsible for all Fletch's success. He's not here to defend himself.

That year, for sure. No, dude. There's nothing like having that big fucker running up in the B gap in a straight line rushing right inside, dude. You're just like, oh. Fletch is definitely a monster. I think Fletch is definitely a monster.

He's one of the best. We're joking, Fletcher. Yeah, we're joking. Yeah, we don't want you. Yeah. So. We're still our wives. Okay.

Stuff. All right. So we haven't talked since speaking of just. I'm joking, but yeah. He's joking. Don't come to his house. Urban Meyer, we haven't. I was just thinking of shit we didn't talk about, bro.

What do you think about when you see a coach do all that? Like, even the most selfish things we've seen from NFL head coaches, I've never seen anything like that. You know, I don't even watch football that much. And then the stuff I was just hearing about Irmaier and it's just like, wow, wow. It's just an interesting thing because it's like in college you can get away with a lot of stuff as a coach because you in college, you kind of like, you could cover up everything. You got, you got the power, especially at a place like Ohio State or even or Gainesville, like you got the power to really high whatever is happening. You are the man, you know, but then you go down to Jacksonville and the NFL, everybody's watching,

and everybody's question. And also, players have the ability to question you. Before in college, it's like, we don't question you. We don't question what the coach says. We know he's the gatekeeper to get to the NFL. When you're in the NFL is like, nah, man, that shit ain't right what you did. So the ability for him not used to having people with voices, I think that's what kind of probably was a shocker for him.

Players talking back to him, the coaches talking back to him, the fans and hating him, being in a position where he even the quarterback was like questioning him. You know what I mean? like, I don't know about that. You know, so it's like he tried to build an organization built on the college mentality and built on fear, which in the NFL that there's not work unless you build Belichick. But Bill Belichick doesn't really build it on fear. He just builds it on expectation, which is a whole different thing.

Yeah, he builds it on consistent expectation. And that takes, if you set a bar that's consistent and you're just matter-a-fact about it, and certainly different players get a little bit different leeway. But for that individual player, the expectations are. clear. You must meet them. It takes all that awkward, like, how do I treat my players? Like, am I too authoritative? Can I be the cool guy here? What's my personality as a coach? If you just focus on the results and the expectation, then you can be yourself, but you just enforce that expectation. I think that's what Bill does a really good job of. And, you know,

funny as motherfucker you ever met, though. He's jokes in the goddamn meet us. You talk about himself. We talk about everybody. But one thing I never forget that Bill. Belichick did. He got in that meeting and that spring meeting and said he started listing with 122 ASC championships and he started going now so I don't care about your fucking opinions. I was like

damn, Bill, like he goes to that meeting and all the wins, quarterbacks, MVP's and all these shit. It's like this shit fucking works and it's like when he does that, that sets the tone. But when you can't do that, that doesn't set the tone. When you're a coach that comes in first year and you're trying to say, I'm going to change the

Jackson big Jaguars because I have proof. You don't have proof. Bill Belichick has proof and when he drops that when he drops his nuts and to shows you everything It just kind of you kind of be like all right. I got to fall in line because whatever he's doing It fucking works but you're right though it's such an arrogance and it's a general You know I don't think coaches generally like I don't want to throw stones at all coaches But some coaches because of where they came from a la urban Meyer in college and all the things you just outlined Like they just have this arrogance like I can't be touched and I'm beyond reproach and I think that's what

happened in Jacksonville and you made a really good point like he's never checked in college and the players- you're doing some Antonio Brown shit like he's doing some Antonio Brown shit yeah actually did you like Antonio Brown a rap album because I know you listened to him no I didn't actually like when he put that single out I thought the whole thing was ridiculous but I was like man this is all right I guess like if you have the right production and and that sort of thing like it didn't sound bad it was it was way better quality than I I thought it was going to be production. It's production value, dude.

The production was, I mean, the lyrics lacked value, but, you know, the overall production was nice, but Irvin Meyer was definitely doing some Antonio Brown shit, like, you know, flying to, you know, the team leads and he goes somewhere else, you know, I don't know if Antonio Brown was slapping girls on the butts, but I'm sure that Irby Meyer was got caught in that film

sitting with a girl in his lap. Like, what was he thinking? Like, bro, you know. That's exactly, but that's exactly that thing you talked about, that hubris is reflective in that scenario right there. First, to do all that and be so tone deaf is to realize that everybody's in a bad mood

because your team's bad and you shouldn't be doing that. Yeah, and then two, to do that in a public place, like forget if we're talking, like, is it morally right to be doing that in the right, in the first place? Take that out of the equation, but actually sitting in a well-lit bar,

your urban Meyer, you're in Ohio, and you're putting your finger on a girl's butthole through her jeans, and she's sitting on your lap. You don't think anybody's going to take a picture of you? You really think because your name's on the bar, like you're totally protected, and I think that kind of hubris comes through in every corner of that story, really. Yeah, it does.

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Tennessee, y'all two. 1,800-889-9-9-7-89. All right, so we've retired. We're a couple years into it, man. First off, do you have any aspirations like Adrian Peterson, Levion Bell to, like, fight somebody for a lot of money? I would only fight with my intellect. Professor X.

He's never a physical... Dr. Strange, you know what I'm my brother. I don't know. All these ex-athletes fighting. I don't know the reason why you want to get in there. Already get punched in your brain, like, for what I think there is. I'm not saying if this is their issue, but I think with a lot of athletes, and this is just my opinions or just an opinion.

Nobody gets the feelings of it. I'm just talking. I know cancel culture is real. It's not real, though. Cancell culture is not real, dude. People getting canceled every day. I don't care what you say. Define cancellation.

losing your TV show or losing your job, losing your voice to talk publicly. How many people have lost their voice in their job that you can name in the public sphere? Aaron Rogers said he was getting canceled. They were putting him in a cancel coffin. He just played in the match in Vegas at the win for like a million dollars with four other quarterbacks. I thought he was canceled. Aaron Rogers never got canceled. you know, do you think racial?

I think they race. You get canceled when you do something racial. Kramer got canceled. If you say, Kramer from Seinfeld got canceled. If you say that word, you should get canceled. Yeah.

Anybody, if you do something racial or something with gender, you get canceled. I don't think you do anything like such as something that misinformation about the vaccine because I think everybody has misinformation

about vaccines or with COVID. Everybody has their own thoughts on it. So I don't think you can get canceled for that, but I think you definitely cancel on things such as women's rights. I disagree with you, General. I think some people can get, some people can make less money because of what they say, but I don't, I don't think cancel.

I think cancel culture is exaggerated. Anyways, go ahead. I agree with you on that. But I was going to say that I think a lot of times players love the idea of people giving them admiration, you know, and it's like this cup that people are feeling up for you. They yell them for you. They're screaming for you to do something physically. I think the best thing about, the best thing about retirement is not to fall in love

with the admiration of others and the affirmation that people give you, oh, you're great, you're this, you're that. You fall in love with that. And that's something that can't be sustained. It's like it has a shelf life. It's like, you need to be in love with your family. You need to be in love with yourself. So you don't have to do things like to things that are attention grabbers just to be doing them.

You know, and I think a lot of athletes may be, it's like the fact that a lot of athletes are doing these things and getting, you know, drunk in love with how people feel about them and saying, oh, you're such a great athlete. But it's like at some point it's time to move on. I think what happens to a lot of athletes, in my opinion, is that it's hard for us to have humility and start over. You know, it's like when you get it, everybody that use an athlete, they think they could just leave something and start at the beginning and be the best at it, right? And I think that's not the truth.

I think there's a process that we have to start over that we almost have to be like babies and go through the whole process and learn and be fed and to be, and to learn a new skill. And I think that's what makes something really powerful. Like even when you start the podcast, you got to go through all. these different things to learn how to speak right when it because you said something about podcast rules i need more of those fucking podcast rules so you just said it you know what i mean but like got through the etiquette of learning you know and i think that's what we have to do is the ability to be able to start over and have humility to know that i'm not good at something and i want to do it but i need to take that same time that 20 years that it took me to get to the NFL it may take another 10 years for me to learn

another skill but don't be scared of that process you know and that process that skill that you may not learn it may not come with fans at the beginning. You might not leave that arena that you were once in and go to another arena and there's more fans waiting for you on your limousine ride when you pull up. You know, if that's not true, you might to build a new audience. So I think going into that and loving that process will only make your retirement better. I just think like for guys to stop, a lot of us fight like this imaginary opponent. So it makes sense that, you know, guys might, some guys might just like boxing. But I do think whatever you're doing after football, in some capacity, you're still fighting that battle, even if you move on on your own terms.

Like, there's still part of you that intrinsically, you only know how to fight. You only know how to confront. You know how to, you know, because for your entire life, you've had every day this force pushing against you, the expectation of performance, appealing to your masculinity, peer pressure, fan pressure. you could be the most motivated person in the world and stop, not know how to harness that and turn it into something else. Like, I don't know, you're still in that mode.

Like, I realized in retirement that I'm confrontational because that served me well in my last job, right? We had to be confrontational. Everything was confrontation. And so now you enter this phase of your life, and that's not a valuable currency anymore. And it's not a good currency. And I was watching the pivot with Fred Taylor,

who I think does an awesome job. Fred was talking to Mike Tyson, which has got to be nerve-wracking. You don't want to offend Mike Tyson on set. Can we do this interview over Zoom, Mike? Just in case you get mad at me. But Mike Tyson, who always gives great answers, I feel like,

it's a wise dude. He was talking about killing your ego. Oh, definitely. After football. And I think that was the most profound thing I'd heard said on that show. And there's been some really good conversations. because the way Mike framed it is your ego is something that served you well. In fact, it was a necessity to have an ego for your entire life.

So naturally, every day your entire professional life, collegiate life, high school life in this sport, it is reinforced that confrontation and ego are at least prerequisites. And now, in this world, none of that is currency. So you have to scrap it and figure out ways to kind of relearn like what, what do you run on? And that is not how you should run in retirement. No, I agree with you 100%. Because like you said, it's like killing your ego and then killing oneself to be born, reborn in a new way, like a new identity, these new person, this new fresh.

Just because leaving something like that is is like death. It is like death to have something, this character. that's being built. It's like Game of Thrones when it killed the greatest character and it's like, but the story continues, you know, because you have to be reborn

into something else, a new person, not in the sense of, oh, you change in the way that you are, but dying of, dying of that ego, dying of that,

dying of their love, down of their admiration of that person that you used to be. Just to grow into something else. And I think that's not even a flesh of thing. I think it's just a spiritual thing. You tap into your spiritual side and kind of looking and living

in a different, different on a different frequency. I think that's very hard because you are right about ego, everything you do. You know, I think sometimes even as a black male, I think about my experience and sometimes I think about how violence was the only really cultivating masculinity was violence. For like sometimes in this culture that we grew up, especially American culture, especially the black culture as an athlete, like the way their ability to do these things, that we got a lot of things out of that way because we were still.

how it's proven to be. And I think just this idea of being able to grow, to be in spaces that are uncomfortable. And I think growth sometimes is uncomfortable, right? Because it's requiring us to, you know, a snake shares its skin. When you're a child, your tooth grows out your mouth, your bones are constantly growing. There's something about growing that it requires you to experience some type of pain.

There's something about growing that requires a certain amount of sacrifice. That's the thing that I think that's really hard with athletes, is that sacrifice that we've once made. We should stay on that train, and we should stay on that ride because the fear of going into that place, the fear of saying, everything about me is wrapped up in this character,

but it's the fear of not going there that keeps us bottled up. I think it's about breaking down those barriers and really trying to experience our own selves and our own humanity traveling, figuring out who we are. Because as an athlete, your life is very tunnel vision,

everything is made up for you, your schedule, what are you supposed to eat, who you're playing, what uniform you're wearing, what socks you're wearing, how you're supposed to speak, what they're saying in the interview, like, everything is already made for you. There's no time for any creativity in between those things. But the idea of being quiet and being still and having a reflection to note that thing, I need to figure out how can I be me? You know what is me? Who am I? What do I love? What kind of things do I like to eat? What, what books do I read? When's the last time I picked up a book? When's the last time I just went? You know? And just, so I think there's a lot of discovery that's in between retirement and the growth of ourselves.

I don't think when I played, I ever sat still, even in the off season, because I was working on borrowed time. I either need to work my ass off to make sure that I was satisfying that devil on my shoulder that was like, you're not doing enough. You're going to, you're going to be bad this fall. You know, you're going to lose it. You're going to fall off. Or you're hurt. Like, you're never going to get back up on top. You know, you're always listening to that voice.

so you never take a second to yourself. Even when you're having fun and what I realized I was doing a lot was I was either working my ass off or I was just releasing by going out and getting fucked up or doing something that I was going 100 miles an hour doing because I didn't know how to sit still. One of the things I learned in retirement

was the Kendrick album dropped and the song United in Grief was really, it was like a song that I love on that album. So I've listened to a bunch of times and I had this epiphany. kind of already knew it, but it confirmed something for me that like that is the way. Now, I didn't go talk to a psychiatrist about this, but I do talk to somebody. Maybe that's the topic for the next sit down.

But I medicate with hard work. I medicate with, you know, whenever I over my lifetime, if I've been in a bind, I tried to work my way out of it because that was football. It was like when you're in a bind, when your team's bad, when you're in a slump, when you're hurt, work harder, spend more time at the facility, do more. And then when I retired, because I'm in this unstable kind of situation where contextually, I've never been in this situation before where I have choice, right? And it scares me.

And, you know, I'm maybe not feeling great. So what do I do? I work too hard. I tried to work too hard in building this. There was a lot of necessity in building this show and continuing to pull the foundation out of the pandemic. Like there's a lot of opportunity to work hard, but I overdid it. and at times at the at the risk of my mental health you know definitely yeah I think that's that's crazy

because even in COVID I think that was something that was proven to all of us I think that we're all often on the wave of life and it's like when you're on a wave you can't see the water because it's constantly moving and you see the whitewash you see a lot of different things but it's like when that water's super still there's a reflection in it and I think sometimes we have a reflection we can cover up a thing you can put makeup on it you can cover up everything about that but still that reflection is who you truly are is right there and it takes a lot to deal with who was there I think there's a lot of record that stillness and that calmness in your brain to recognize that like I'm overworking I'm doing this I'm compensated with something I'm trying to do

this I think that's the moments that we all have to have and I think it's something about us really having that reflection with ourselves and a time with ourselves to really figure out what we need to do. I think as an athlete for sure, I agree with you, that hard work is always the way. Even sometimes, it's even hard to work out right now, right? You go to the gym and you're like, why the hell am I putting 400 pounds? Like, what the, what the fuck am I doing? My wife is like, why are you doing that? You know, but it's like that that's what you've been taught to cope with hard work. But I also think that that can pull you far away from your family because you realize that you went through all that stuff. To be with them. To be a better father. Or

to be a better husband, to be all these better things, you know. And it's like to recognize that it is the journey, I think. But, you know, I think that's what it all is. It's just a reflection in how we deal with that reflection. I think it takes a lot to do reflections in stillness because the calmness, you have to be with one. And sometimes being with one is trippy, right? Because you start to think about the flaws, the hypocritical things that you've done,

you know, and then you go into a place where you're like, how do I get out of this? You know what I'm saying? And this, like, well, There needs to be sometimes where I'm just, I need to take my wife or I need to take my kids. I need to just be, be, you know, like be at the beach and just sit, you know, like, and just be calm and be relaxed. And I think sometimes just, I think a lot of stuff is just being, being one of yourself, you know, and it's

definitely hard. And being selfish, we played the ultimate team sport and we were, we had no boundaries like, hey, you know, my time is a team's time. And you might have a varying account of how you went about like your business from mindset. but I was like, hey, every autograph, not that I'm like a superstar, but every autograph, every fan that says hello, anything anybody needs, a favor. I'm a yes guy, right? This is just kind of how I live my life.

And in retirement and in finding yourself, I think you've got to be a little selfish and say like, all right, I'm going to put up these boundaries. We're going to sit here. I'm going to take more time to myself. That might even mean that I need a little time away from my wife and kids sometimes, you know, I ain't agreeing with that. I'm not agreeing. Yeah, because she might listen.

She doesn't listen to my podcast, bro. She does. But no, I'm saying, like, there are times where you have to secure your, you know, when the plane, there's no oxygen in the plane and the mask falls down. And they say, put your oxygen mask on first. Like, that's what we have to do as men. And I think sometimes we don't do that because we're providing for everybody else and saying, yes.

just figuring yourself out, there's a really therapeutic element to just sitting still that I never experienced until recently. Yeah, that's, this is, I like that. I like that idea of, um, sitting still too, because even now when I wake up some times in the morning, when you wake up before your kids are up and you just kind of, your family's up, but you take that time to read a book, you take that time to turn some candles. Like, what are things? Because it's like when you're athlete, you go through all these things to prep yourself

for playing. But I also think there should be, there's an athlete. after you retire, you should also take some time to prep yourself for the day. And I think sometimes, like, even prep yourself for a day, doesn't mean, because sometimes I think, not to say that smoking weed is wrong, but also think people use, we use weed in a way to cope with it, not in the sense of like, like, you know what I'm just getting high of the pains? You know what I mean? Just like a real relaxing type of motivation. Just like preparing yourself for your day, whatever it is. Sometimes I still take a salt bath in the morning,

get up in your can and read, you know, do, be at the moment, listen to the sounds just because I know that I need to prepare myself similar to how I'm prepared for games. I should be preparing for life like that in the morning when it's time to go because it's just like, that's the game of life is the most important game that we play. It's a really hard thing when you said it. Somebody set our schedule for years. Like we were ready to run through whatever wall somebody points in the direction of, whether we liked it or not.

And now you have the freedom to say, I could do anything today. You know, I could do anything this week. I do anything this month, which is a thing that other people are not going to feel bad for you about because we were blessed enough to have the security to have choice but choice can be kind of overwhelming especially when the the quote unquote most important part of our lives professionally is over so i think guys struggle with that freedom they struggle with the choice they struggle with the fact that nothing they do is going to be significant to people outside of their own home anymore but that really doesn't fucking matter and i think that's what you figure out is like the people

that cheered for you all those years they don't even care you care. They're not thinking about you. So why are you thinking about what they expect of you? They're not thinking about. Nobody's thought about Michael Bennett or Chris Long today. The only way they think about that is if we force it down their throats and do some content. But other than that, most of our fans are not thinking about us day to day. And that's good. That's fine. That's natural. But I also think that's fine for people that think about us, I think for us to realize that the people that are in our immediate family, that's the only, that's the most important people that we can deal with on daily basis. It isn't how really how people think that we are,

just the end where we have, how we have conversation or interactions, how we intervene with our family on a day and basis. I think that's the most important thing. I think that can't get lost. I think a lot of times we get to a place where Instagram and Twitter is so important. It's like the perception of who we are is more powerful than who we truly are. You know what I'm saying? And the perception of that is way more powerful. Like if people perceive you to be this and that, they're going to fall in love with you. But in reality, you could be a fucking asshole. Or you could be a great person and people perceive you in a terrible way and you won't get any opportunities.

So I just think, you know, loving your family and being close to them, I think that's what really matters. And for example, like the work you do with your foundation and the work that you just do in general, I think that's important. Because at the end of the day, you're helping people. I think we all have to find out what is our purpose. we all have a talent and we have to figure out what that, what that talent is and how we can use it for a purpose. I think often in life we get our talents misconstrued with our purpose. We think that because we're fast and we jump, that that's our talent, right? But in truly, that's not our talent.

Really, that's somebody else's purpose. The people that own the NFL teams, there's their purpose to find people with talent to fulfill their purpose. You know what I mean? But it's our job to find out who we truly are and how we can make an impact on the planet. and everybody impact can be completely different. Your impact doesn't have to be, oh, I have 20 million people following me and all this. Your impact can be just the people you interact with at the store,

how you inspire them. And that's what I think is super important. I think we're getting this construed a lot. Like, you running fast and you're throwing a ball, that is not your talent. That is a skill that you have. But your talent has got to be something that can change your community, that can change your environment.

I don't know how you figure that out. It takes time to figure that out. And also, I think sometimes when you look at some of the greatest people, on the planet. Like, they don't do their greatest body at work till they turn 45, you know, like, yeah, dude, I always say that. Willie Nelson, one of my favorites, think he was selling vacuum cleaners in his 30s, man. I mean, I don't think he hit it until his 40s. All these great inventors and stuff. Look out how old they were before they found that. They failed so many times, and I think that's hard for, you know, NFL players to see when they get out, is that we did this

amazing thing. What are the chances of us hitting it out of the park twice? Well, actually, better than you think. You just have to be patient and realize that really like at this stage it's more about finding peace. I think it's about finding that piece first and then going out and doing what you want to do because I think that's the hardest thing and that's what everybody wants is just finding some peace

and I think that's what I've realized over the last couple years. It's like it's the biggest if life is a game, you referred to it as a game earlier. I think winning that game is finding peace. It's that simple. It's like waking up and knowing who you are and finding peace in that process. Whatever your process

says whatever you're doing, it's, it's feeling that I don't need anything, I don't need anything, but, but, you know, myself and my family and I have that peace. And that's true too, bro, and it's like, I got to find peace without substance. I got to find peace that doesn't alter my reality. Yeah. You know, you say, we've got to get the metaverse. You got to get this, like, no, I need to find peace with just me. Like, how can I just be comfortable with just me? Like, I am enough. Like, me, Michael Bennett is enough. Like, me, Michael Bennett, how I is not, is not the answer me, Michael Miller, it's just me waking up and saying,

I love me, you know what I'm saying? And that's not a bad thing. Yeah, that's what I think that's truly what we have to get to. So I agree with you 100%. Yeah, you're enough. Yeah, no question. Do you, have you felt down or depressed at all after retirement? Because Vince Williams just retired talking about,

Vince Williams, remember him number 98 from the Steelers? He was just on Arthur Modes podcast, and he was talking about how he went to deep depression. Just these stories happen all the time. Like, how's your mental? Like, how's your mental been? I think my mental has been pretty strong because I kind of just I left the game I left the game because I wanted to leave the game not because I felt like I can't get a job or anything

I just left the game because I was just like all the people that I played with that made the game powerful and strong and all those things like the concept of the game how it was playing was changing I was like man you know what I just want to walk away and be with my family so for me I didn't really have no down moments as far as that I think the hardest thing was to figure out what did I want to do with my life like I knew that that, you know, there's something that I have to do. I got to figure that out. So I think the hardest part, not depressed,

but this hardest part is searching and spending valuable time searching. I think that was bigger than that. I don't think I was really depressed about retirement because I'm like, I was undrafted. It was like everything I did I was not supposed to play as long as I did, not supposed to make me the suckers I did, not supposed to make it to the pro bowls like I did, just Super Bowls, defense, like money.

Like, I was not supposed to do any of the thing. I was supposed to be an undrafted player who made you, you know, play it on one team and then got left. 12 years later, it's like I did that. You know what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, it was like I did everything I was supposed to do and more than I thought I would ever do. So I was not.

I just felt like I fulfilled a lot of things, you know. Do you worry about, you know, you talked about head trauma and all that stuff, like, does that enter into your kind of like 20, 30 year plan and how you see your life playing out? Do you think we're going to end up like some of these horror stories? No, I don't know if we're going to end up like any of those horror stories. I pray that we don't end up like any of those horror stories. But I think every player who plays in the NFL thinks about it, trauma.

Every player thinks about the NFL. And then it's the fear is scary to even think about, right? Because there's this thing that you did, that you loved, but there's some devil in it. There's some sin, you know, that comes with that gift and their blessing that you got. You took some opportunities that you know that could be, you know, scary. that could be, you know, you look at, will I be normal in my brain? I think that everybody player that says that if a player says he doesn't think that he's fucking lying. If you were out there hitting, doing things, you often think about things

that you see other people experiencing, even though you may not think that's going to happen to you, but you know that somewhere down the line, deep down in your head, there's still just 1% and 2%. That's still a big chance of it happening to you. I know that a lot of people fearful of that. I mean, I don't know. What do you think? Man, I feel like I have a lot of.

a healthy fear of it. Maybe it helps that I've seen my dad kind of like, I mean, he's in his 60s, he's really sharp, you've met my pops, like he's a fucking great guy, he's not erratic, he's the opposite of erratic. Having said that, God forbid, and five years from now, something could change. I mean, as it does with a lot of 65, 70 year old guys. And I think this is what we get lost a little bit on sometimes is CTE is real. They've demonstrated that. You can see the buildup of tau protein in somebody's brain. It's scientifically observable. But I think we get out over our skis a little bit on predicting how it's going to go if you have CT. I mean that they can predict the behavioral outcomes of CT. I bet you you and I have or will have CT, but I don't think that

necessarily. Don't you wish that on me, Ricky Bobby. But don't, hey, Ricky Bobby. Don't put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby. I think we might be conflating a little bit of CTE and how it manifests. Like, I'm not saying you're going to lose your mind, but I'm saying maybe you have this disease and it doesn't manifest in that terrible way. I think, I don't

think we know enough right now and I think it can be dangerous sometimes and it can be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy for guys who are sitting at home when they see all these guys dying early or, you know, maybe you know, there's a Vincent Jackson situation or you think back to like Junior

your say out or all the, what we do a lot of times as, as football players, is we read the general public's reaction to all these stories and we assume that there was no other mitigating factor in this person's life, like substance abuse or, you know, or depression or anxiety or something that predated them playing football. I know me, I suffer from anxiety. You know, I say suffer, but, you know, I deal with anxiety, right? I've had, I've dealt with anxiety my whole life. You know, like, you know, I could tell you that as a teenager, I was anxious. You know, I could tell you as there's a middle schooler, I was anxious. Like, because it got worse with the, you know, the strains of pro football or retirement at different points doesn't mean it was my brain.

It could just be my mental health. And I think sometimes it's dangerous that by acknowledging something's real, we have to, we have to diagnose everything as well. That's what happened to that guy or this is what's going to happen. when we don't hear about all the guys that die happy at 85, Tony Sargusa. His dad died at 47 of a massive heart attack. The autopsy, the report's not back, I don't think, but people speculated that it might be heart disease or something.

He's a huge dude, man. He was a big guy. Did that have anything to do with football? Not necessarily, but a lot of people jump to conclusions. Not a lot, but I saw a few people tweeting like, I would not let my kid play football. But we don't even know the dust. hasn't settled. We don't know what happened yet. The next morning after Tony

Sergusa died, there was this guy who played in a leather helmet. I saw him flash across my timeline. He died at 90 years old. The guy was doing a Heisman pose in a black and white picture. But of course, nobody aggregates that because it doesn't sell. It's not bad news. So my point is if you're a player sitting at home, you can get cut up in this washing machine of, oh, fuck, this is what's going to happen to me. And you can get more anxious. All I'm saying is, it's very real, but there's no reason to think that we're all going to die early. In fact, the average lifespan

of NFL players, according to a 2012 study, says that we live longer than the general population, but that's because we live in a super unhealthy country if you compare it. 2012 is a long time. Yeah, well, things could only get better. But if you think about it, Mike, like in 2012, there would be more

people dying early because, you know, more guys are alive from that era where they absolutely just fucking, you know, the guys that played in the 60s and 70s, you can't even compare the the trauma that went on in their heads and in their bodies to guys that played in 2010s. I think that's very true. I'm just saying, I'm just saying it's not a sure thing that we're fucked.

As you have, it doesn't mean that you're going to end up the same way the other people's that end up. Is it possibly how many people are living with it right now and they don't know? And what's it, what is the, what is the, how are they living? What's the quality of life that they're experiencing every day? Yeah, all I'm saying is it can be tough to watch the news. It can almost make your mental health worse. because it feels like everybody's dying

but there's tens of thousands of guys that played in the NFL inevitably some of them are going to die from day to day and you're going to see it in the news and some of them are going to die early just like most Americans. We live seven years or eight years. We were just talking about this eight years less average lifespan

than countries like Japan or northern European countries dude in the United States. That's true too. I mean I just came from Europe and I was looking at the quality of life or just how people are how people are just like the parks and how people are walking out there to eat just a different type of life i think that i uh is what i think about often is like how do you what's the quality of life that you're experiencing

you know like it isn't just about living but are you living to die you're just living you know what i mean i think that's a whole other conversation and so i agree with you i think there's a conversation that we got to have and maybe take some of the fear out of it to say that everybody's life is not going to end the same exact way Yeah. No, I mean, there's a lot of factors is all I'm saying. I mean, football is definitely going to kill me quicker than it would if I didn't play it, you know, but at the same time, I'm not going to predict an early, you know, fucked up death or anything like that. All right, real quick, Mike, you just mentioned, you've been to Europe. This is the last thing I'm going to ask you, man. If you had to move, say something terrible happened in this country, the country went into the shitter or already is in the shitter. And you had to move somewhere. You've tried. traveled. You've lived in New Zealand, right? You've been in Europe. You've been in Africa. Where could Michael Bennett live if Michael Bennett had to move? I really don't want to give this information out because they might track me. So I'll give them like one of my fifth favorite place. Give me number five.

Where I probably, I like Venice. I like Venice. I don't know if it would be a nice place to live. but I definitely like Venice, Italy. I think, or maybe... It can be underwater, though, soon. That's true. I choose Morocco. I love Morocco.

Morocco's a great place. It's food. It's the culture. You know, you got a little bit of everything. You've got great beaches. You got the desert. You got camels, monkeys. You got a little bit of craziness, you know, and then great cuisine.

So I'll choose... I said Morocco. I think Morocco would be a great place to live. And I know you've spent time in New Zealand. I'm not saying this is. number one but do you think I would like living in New Zealand first of all I think you love living in New Zealand because you automatically fit in you have the profile you have you have you have you have the skin to fit in so I think that you'd be

great there's a I think you'll like it too because it's similar to Montana a lot of outdoors a lot of walking lot of biking a lot of hiking a lot of hiking a lot of fishing lot of hunting just nature you know I know you love nature so I think you really like it I think you like Sweden too I think Sweden is a great place too because it's just the same things. A lot of nature. We could go around. There's parks. There's beautiful. Just everything's, um, you know, farm to table. It's like, it's just a good place. And people are nice. I think the thing that makes a great country is and people are nice. Where are we going on naked and afraid? I remember we used to talk about going on naked and afraid. Yeah, so neck and afraid. We have

one problem. We just want to wear boxes. We'll do the whole project. Jock strap. I'll put a job trap on, dude. We do jockstrap, naked and afraid. But we can do anything. I don't know how far we make it, but I think we can make it because we both watch naked and afraid. But let's go on there, the celebrity version of naked and afraid. But we got to wear boxers and see if we can make it through. I think we can make it like, my wife says she didn't go make it like seven days. Oh, we definitely, depending on the place, if our goal was only to go a week, I think we could go a week. You know?

Yeah. But like I was watching the last night. I just happened to be watching naked afraid, dude. And I was watching the Amazon one. Yeah. I see it's like an hour long and I'm like, Damn, these people probably made it. No, there were like seven people in that fucking episode.

The Amazon was just eating people alive. People were leaving after three days just because of bugs. I didn't see any snakes, nothing. It was just the mosquitoes had these people looking like cottage cheese, man. Just bumps all over them. So I don't know. Sometimes I feel kind of cocky and then I start watching the show and it's not like anything dangerous happened. It's just even the bugs will get you.

Yes, the bug and then like not being able to get food. you like they how do I like without the tools like it's like I'm not driving to home who they catch it get get some bacon I got to kill this bacon slice it good it and then you know make it and you got to kill the bacon yeah you got to kill the bacon if you know if we go with that guy Matt you know Matt the the main the great hunter guy we go with Matt I think you make it with Matt you know he's he we do we should get mad on the podcast and we both we get on with we should yo we should do we should have a pod if you come on here, I'll get the foremost naked and afraid guy

and we can just, I want to get one of the producers on, honestly. So get the producer and also get Matt and there's another guy. There's Gary, but Gary would be a great partner. And then there's that one woman too with the red hair. She's really good too. That's good. That narrows it down. I'll get her name down. But Gary and Matt are definitely,

I'll take Matt because Matt, he's out there shooting analogs. I think we can make it with Matt for three days. I mean, if we go with Matt, I think we'll make it. 21 days, huh? Okay, yeah, fuck it. 21 days it is. We're going to do next up. Next thing we do here is we're going to have a,

for charity too. Yes. Every day we make it, we get, every day we make it, somebody can donate $5,000 to our charity. That would suck though if I chickened out and I was letting kids down and shit. But if you make it 10 days,

you get $50,000. Okay. Then we make it, we could donate to our charity. So it sounds like a plan. Sounds like a plan, bro. I'm in.

So next up, we'll have, we'll have Mike on with it, with somebody. from naked and afraid. We need each other. All right, Michael Bennett, Renaissance man, great friend. This has been a nice long FaceTime, bro. So we don't have to talk to each other until next month.