Green Light with Chris Long - Michael Bennett Retires. My Morning Jacket's Jim James & Patrick Hallahan. Mailbag.

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

0:46 - NFL Season and Michael Bennett. 18:04 - Mailbag. 32:22 - My Morning Jacket on Live Performances, Are Musicians Athletes, and the Perfect Live Outdoor Venue. 1:19:36 - Quick Hitters with My Morning Jacket. Michael Bennett's book - Things That Make White People Uncomfortable My Morning Jacket's New Album - The Waterfall II Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Real quick story. I brought my parents to that second show night two. My parents were on the other side, like all by themselves and like, you know, general population. And me and my boys are on the other side for good reason. You know, imagine Howie Long's standing in a crowd of 20-something-year-old dudes, 30-something-year-old dudes, just you guys are rocking. And I come over and I'm like, how's it going, Mom? She's like, these lights are amazing. I go, you can only imagine, mom.

Not the summer any of us planned or imagined, but it's the summer we got. So I hope everybody's making the best of it. Staying safe, having some fun. I'm up in Montana. I've been using some of my time to check out my tree dashers from all birds. So fishing, check, boating, check, jet ski, check, hiking. Definitely a check. I knew that in Virginia.

And out here, the terrain's a little bit different, but still, same quality shoe. I'm even giving them a big old check for barbecue maintenance. and monitoring, something I do really well at times and sometimes I fall short. They're light, they're tough, they're great. They look great. Again, look good, feel good, play good. A fantastic athletic shoe,

and I am so happy to be involved with Allbirds. They're our sponsor, they're a great sponsor, and I've loved working with them. Check out the tree dashers at allbirds.com. Happy Wednesday, everybody. This is the Greenlight Pot. I'm your host, Chris Long. and we have a great show lined up for you today.

If you like music, you get an inside look at what it's like to be a musician right now in the age of COVID. And if you like My Morning Jacket, which I certainly do, you get to hear all about their new album, The Waterfall 2, which was long awaited. Obviously, it's comprised of older songs, but nonetheless, brand new to fans like me. and we're going to hear directly from Jim James, the frontman who's got that haunting, powerful voice that makes them so unique. And I say the glue guy, the heartbeat of the band, Pat Hallahan, Patrick and Jim, are longtime friends. And there are two guys that I think I'm very lucky to have on the show.

I'm pretty tight with Pat, got tight with Pat going to shows, and I've seen them, you know, almost 20 times probably. If I had to count, maybe it's closer to 15. But I've seen them a bunch, and that's no small task for me with an 11-year NFL career. I was doing that in the off-season and whatnot. I'd see them at least a couple times a year. So one of my favorite bands ever, one of the best live bands I've ever seen, if not the

best live band I've ever seen. And if I had to think about a band that I'm psyched to see when COVID passes and we can start doing live music again, which some people are saying. will be end of 2021. God, that feels weird to say that. I would put jacket at the top of the list. And they were supposed to play this festival in California called Ohana, which has been pushed back to 2021.

Of course, I will be psyched. I will be there whenever it happens. I'll move heaven and earth to get there and see these dudes play. I don't know Jim as well. You know, Jim, I think being a frontman has got to be, it's got to be tough. You know, there's no anonymity. You know, people, including myself, want to ask Jim a bunch of questions.

And I try to resist the urge if I do see him after a show when I'm visiting Pat or Bo. You know, and shout out to the other dudes in the band as well, Carl and Tom. But, you know, Jim is a guy who intrigues me. He is an extremely interesting dude and a great songwriter. And obviously, his voice is so unique. I just love the band. And it's going to be interesting for me sitting down and talking to it. It was interesting because I've already talked to these guys.

And as I do often, I'm recording the open at the end of the day. It was a lot of fun talking to Jim for longer than I ever have. And obviously catching up with Pat as well. So my morning jacket coming up, a lot of fun talking to those guys. And also, I said that today we would have Derek Pitt. of the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia. I asked you all for a comic guy, and you did not disappoint. I feel like the mark of a good pod is when you can have your listeners be kind of your

booking agents, and enough of you all tweeted Derek, who's a renowned astronomer, has enjoyed all types of honors and access to really elite circles in that field because of the hard work he's put in. You guys tweeted at him. You guys ran him down. And eventually we exchanged contact information within a 48-hour period. And the Green Light Faithful kind of handled that booking process for me. So I appreciate you all.

Derek was supposed to go today. I was going to tack him on at the end of my morning jacket and Jim and Pat. But it was so awesome. I could have talked to him for two, three hours. What a remarkable dude. What a brilliant dude. What a remarkable dude. And what's more interesting than space.

So this hour-long kind of conversation we had about comets, aliens, space movies, time and space theology and how that's been shaped by what we see in the sky. Human history in the course of it, you know, astronomy, how important it is. And again, I mentioned this in my story. I had one or two people who will go unnamed to ask me, you know, I heard you're having an astronomer on. Can you ask them about how an Ares and a Pisces will go? It's not astrology. It's different. But Derek was great and we'll hold that until Friday morning.

So you'll get it Friday morning in just two days. So Derek Pitts, Franklin Institute Friday, look ahead. He was awesome. NFL news today. I mean, there's a bunch of speculation as we're playing this game of chicken with some new dates for training camp and all that. I'm going to try not to beat you to death today with the COVID talk when it comes to the NFL. Again, I'm not being pessimistic, and I've said this since the spring.

I think the season is in grave danger, or it should be. I mean, the irony of, and as players, obviously you want safety, you want to do something that's common sense. You want there to be protective measures and that sort of thing. But there's nothing common sense about this exercise in forcing sports, right? right now if you can't do it in a bubble situation and everybody's not buying in it's just a huge undertaking with that many players and i talked about it on the pod earlier last week um you know what about not just the players the coaches i think everybody's brushing this off as hey players are young they're healthy they're supposed to be invincible and certainly the statistics back up that you're

less apt to to fall gravely ill at a younger age but it happens and with all the players in the league you're playing that probability game. What happens if we, God forbid, lose somebody and not even mentioning the coaches who are certainly not immune to or perceived even to be immune to the effects of this terrible disease that's claimed the lives of so many, you have 70-year-old coaches, you have 55-year-old coaches,

you have coaches who are overweight, you have coaches who have underlying health conditions. And that affects not only their safety, but when you get down to it, there's no pre-season thing, the risk of losing a coach. for an entire period of quarantine, the risk of losing a star player and a playoff push, which, to be frank, if the season starts on time, quote unquote, on time, I don't think we're

going to get there. And the NFL, I can't tell if they're wildly prideful and they just don't like being told what to do or delusional or the NFL thinks that if they start week one, it's going to be, it's going to feed this flame of insatiable appetite for sports that's going to just make everybody push through the discomfort and the bad news and probably the chaos that will ensue at every turn. I mean, I know the guys are getting tested every day, and that's the talk. But, you know, what happens if a guy goes out to eat, comes back to work the next day, is tested? The test takes two, three days to get back.

You got yourself an outbreak, at least from where I'm standing. Listen, I also think that maybe the NFL is thinking, hey, if we kick this thing off and we go four games, games, you know, maybe that'll bode well for showing how popular we are, even in a pandemic. I would argue that you're probably going to have a ratings boost for having a captive audience. But the flip side of that is that if the players play a game or two, and I don't know the answer to this, they get paid for the entire season, so many unanswered questions. And I beat you over the head with enough. I told you I wasn't going to beat you over the head with it. And I proceeded to talk about COVID and the NFL for five minutes.

So the one piece of NFL news I do want to mention today, Michael Bennett has officially retired and I've given him shit for about a year on just calling and quits. Like, dude, towards the end of our careers and Michael Bennett and I were guys who were in the same division for our primes. Obviously, he enjoyed a lot more team success and got to play on a bigger stage. I mean, he was one of the better players on the field in that Super Bowl that they beat the Patriots in. and he was part of that great defensive line with LLB behind him and all that stuff. He was a guy that I often tried to compete with, and me and Mike probably competed with each other.

I know we respect each other's games, and I'd look at those sack totals. I'd look at the quarterback disruption totals. There was nobody in our division during that time who was more disruptive continually. And that's the run game, the past game, very versatile player. obviously he never had like a Robert Quignor where he had 19 sacks. You know, he was a guy who just was steadily on it and he retires just shy of 70 sacks. He's got about 130 tackles for loss to his name, which is a really eye-popping number.

And he always was a guy that you had to account for because he does not play by the rules. Mike Bennett does not give a fuck about gap integrity. Mike Bennett will backside, backdoor, a block, and hit the running back four yards in backfield, because he's not worried about getting reached. Mike played the game to make plays. And Mike made a ton of plays. And one thing about Mike that I don't think people understand is what made him so good is that he could play inside and outside.

A lot of people think of the defensive end and that sort of thing. Michael Bennett, his strength was an inside rusher. and he was extremely disruptive inside. We used to always laugh about him being an inside rusher. For those of you all listening and who know what a three technique is, it's the guy that lines up outside the guard. He would be down there in a sub package, which is the third down package.

And I was the left end by last year in Philly, where we kind of got together in Philly in the twilight of our careers and commiserated over how tired we were of the business and that sort of thing. But we enjoyed playing and we rushed right next to each other. I used to give Mike shit about lining up so wide. He was a three technique, but he would damn near a lineup in a five. And he is also an author, by the way.

And you got to check out this book, Things That Make White People Uncomfortable, I think is the name of the book by Michael Bennett. I used to give him shit about you should write a book about things that make white pass rushers uncomfortable because he would be in my fucking gap, like lined up six inches inside my alignment. And at that stage of my career, I'm like, I'm not Cliff April, you know, I'm not the guy that you're used to just running the hoop continually.

I'm a power player. I'm an inside rush player. I'm a counter player, especially in my 30s. And we used to laugh about that all the time. It was like a match made in hell sometimes as far as lining up next to each other. But we enjoyed so much of it because we were just two guys, that spent a lot of time together. We talked about life.

We talked about deep topics. Mike is extremely frugal, despite his, you know, decade long plus earnings in the NFL. He never wanted to wait for an Uber. And I was always really late at the facility doing work. And, you know, he would stay an extra hour just to hitch a ride home,

end of town. He'd be like, hey, you leave in soon. soon and I knew what this game was. And I'd be like, why don't you just take an Uber? I'm going to be here a while. I was like, oh, I think I'll wait. I say, you're going to wait like an hour? He's like, yeah, I'll just wait right here.

And so I couldn't shake him. You know, me and Mike probably logged about 30 hours in that car, which, of course, when I had him on the podcast a month or two ago talking about serious issues, I made a joke about the fact that he never paid me back for all the gas mileage that was accrued on those trips into Philly. and by the way, where he was going was out of the way. He joked that that was reparations, all that gas money on my part.

So Mike Bennett, he talks about tough issues. He has been somebody I've been proud of as an activist. I mean, he's definitely an intellectual. I think football, if anything, as great as he was at it, and he knows this, kind of puts him in a box. I mean, Mike is a bit of a renaissance, man. and a guy who's into a lot of different stuff. You might not see Mike Bennett play football again,

but Mike Bennett, you'll read Mike Bennett's writing, you'll hear him on the airwaves, I think he's got a bright future in the entertainment business. And I don't think he's a podcast. I mean, he has a podcast that's terrific already. But I think I see him under the bright lights, like late night show type stuff. I think he'd be a terrific option for somebody

You can kind of go off the cuff, talk to people about anything, be funny, be serious. You know, his personality is just as diverse as his interest. So obviously great football player, one of my favorite players to watch in the NFC West, one of my favorite jerseys that I traded over my time in the NFL. And to think that we would play together our last year, it was so interesting. Of course, that wasn't his last year. He did go to Dallas by way of New England, his final season. somebody I respected greatly, his game throughout our careers, cool to unite with him towards the end.

And we had a lot of funny conversations when I tell you he would just make me laugh and laugh. And sometimes we would argue about the world's problems. And he was just the type of guy you'd go anywhere with. We were plain ride guys, you know, right next to each other on those long trips and got to know each other very well. And listen, there's no shortage of things about Mike that are not. what the fuck out of me because we were tight and some days we would drive each other crazy. But I think one of the biggest things that impressed me about Mike or one of the things I really liked about Mike was, you know, you could say what you want about Mike being a shit

disturber. You could say what you want about Mike, you know, being antagonistic sometimes or, you know, not not not being a rule following type guy, you know, and football is a world of rules. So Mike often found himself at odds with some of those rules. He's a contrarian. He's stubborn. Mike's best quality besides being interesting to talk to, being a really good football player, but he's a great family man. I mean, he loves his girls so much.

And I'm not just throwing that around. I mean, how many football players have you heard me talk about what great dads or husbands they are. Mike is incredibly protective of his family in a really healthy way and really nurturing. And he also gives his kids like a real full life. You know, they travel the world. Like I'll call Mike and they'll be in like New Zealand or Hawaii. Like those kids don't know time zones.

They're going to grow up seeing the world. They're going to grow up with a dad who's incredibly supportive and interesting and smart. and makes them, you know, strain to look at the world different ways. And, you know, they just, the Bennett's are great family. And Mike is a great dad. So shout out to Mike for being just a terrific family dude and somebody who I admire, probably more than the football stuff for sure. Yeah, now he gets to be that and everything else that I think he's going to do.

And as I said, he's going to do a lot more. Again, extremely disruptive in the run and the past game. one of the better inside rushers, especially inside outside rushers in my time in the league, calling it quits. And as Michael Bennett will probably tell you, this is just the beginning for a retired dude who didn't see themselves as a football player first. I mean, and that's what I know me and him have in common. So I'm excited to see what he does.

Mailbag real quick before getting to Jim and Pat and my morning jacket. Greg Yarbineck asked if you could be an extra in a movie, what kind of movie and what would happen to you? Blown up, shot in the head, crushed by Godzilla. I gave this one some thought, okay? Because I do think about this from time to time. Not necessarily the movie, but like what's a noble, untimely death? Okay, because we're all extras in life.

Nobody's the main character. You might think you're the main character. You're just a fucking extra. And we all die one day, okay? I would want, golly, not crushed by Godzilla. I know that was like, because that's pretty unceremonious. The CGI kind of cheapens to death. the crunch, although the crunch would be interesting.

I would want to die. Also, Godzilla doesn't even mean to kill you. That's the funniest thing about Godzilla. Godzilla's just out there indiscriminately fucking shit up. If he steps on somebody, there was no malice. I mean, it's kind of like cheapens the whole situation. Godzilla didn't even mean to kill you. I would want to die by like a grizzly bear or some large mammal.

I think there's something romantic about it. I do love the movie The Revenant. You know, Leo kicks the bucket at the hands of an enormous brown bear at the end, although he survives the first encounter. He really regenerated pretty quickly from that encounter as well. I would like a knockdown, drag-out type bite. You know, I would want to die naturally. I'd want to maybe re-enter the food chain, you know.

Maybe I'm the fearless character that just kind of accepts the fate and leans into it. Like the dude and predator on the bridge who invites a predator to him and then, you know, suffers his fate off camera, but you hear it. That kind of bravery. I don't know if I'm saying that because I'm covering up for the fact that I don't know that I'd be that brave in that situation. But yeah, that'd be cool. Like Liam Neeson in the Grey, which is another movie I really like. Some people don't like it. I presume he died at the end, kind of a sopranos in the Arctic situation,

although not as big of a question in the court of public opinion, but I'm not sure if Liam dies at the end of that movie. I assume he did. I'd be surrounded by Arctic wolves. I'm not going to include Oberyn's dumbass being complacent as counting, you know, as dying at the hands of a large mammal. And of course, we're talking about the dude in Game of Thrones that got crushed by the mountain because he was hot dogging. I'm not going to be like that.

I'm an extra. I don't expect a lot of character development. But dying at the hands of a large mammal works fine for me. And people, you know, when you Google large mammals, okay, a moose comes up. That's not romantic to me. When a moose kills a frontiersman in like Oregon Trail times, it's not that fucking cool. It's almost like if you got killed by a moose, um, You know, in the 1800s, your family, every time I would leave my cabin, I'd tell my family,

if I get killed by a moose, just say it's a bear. I mean, mooses are really scary, but there's just nothing that romantic about it. Yeah, way less cooler than being killed by like a wolf. A wolf, hell yeah, a bear, yeah, snakes, no thanks. It's just one bite when a snake kills you, and then you die slow. and extras don't get that kind of like slow draining of their life force. I mean, unless you die by Anaconda like John Voight and then get regurgitated and spit out in front of Jennifer Lopez and he winks it or if you remember that scene. Yeah, no, there was also a scene in Lonesome Dove, if anybody watched that movie.

And I accidentally watched it as a kid. I'd like to go back and see if I really liked it. But there was a scene where this dude dies like falling in a puddle of a bunch of cotton mouse. Uh, no thank you. No thank you. A regurgitated John Voight, um, would be fine with me. Now, mountain lions legitimately scary, getting killed by Cougar. It's a possibility. I'm out here in Montana right now. I mean, like when I'm out in the woods, I mean, grizzlies you're afraid of, you make noise, you don't want to surprise one. But anybody from up here that you talk to is like, well, they don't want anything to do with you, you know, um, anybody.

who has that accent, they know what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to like wild animals. Mountain lions, they'll follow you and they will hunt you. And they are cats. So they'll chase you. And I'm a little bit more spooked by them. Now, getting killed by a cougar, if we're talking about cougars, Sharon Stone, basic instinct style death. I don't know if I'm okay with that. I'm on the fence about that one. Sharks, no thank you. Open water. Have you ever seen that? movie low budget movie about two people that like basically get tossed overboard and swim for three hours of the movie and they're just slowly getting eaten by sharks and it's terrifying it's my worst nightmare that'll be a no for me dog um i actually search deadliest animals dogs are at nine okay between 1988 and 2013 466 deaths by dogs in canada and the u.s nah not going to

buy into that fear mongering. I love dogs. Eight lions. Come on, little low on the list. I think we're getting cute with this list. A lion would kill you fast as fuck. Ghosts in the darkness style. Bears at seven. I mentioned them, polar bears, grizzly bears. Now, with the sea ice melting, we're only bringing that on ourselves. Those dudes up north are hungry, and they're the scariest ones. It would be embarrassing as fuck to get killed by a panda bear, which looks way too cute and also is not really a bear? Or is that a koala bear that's not a bear?

Listeners chime in. Hippo at six. No thanks. Tiger at five, no thanks. By the way, life of pie, kind of unrealistic. And how did Joe Exotic not get fucked up worse? I feel like if you die by a tiger and you're a white dude, that means you. you do meth or you have a weird exotic animal thing, which means you have a childhood issue maybe.

Or you could be cool. Yeah, chances are if you die by tiger, I'm not saying it's like 100% chance, but it's like a 75% chance that if you're a white dude who dies by a tiger, you've done meth or you've got problems. Four, horses. No. I'm not, no, getting killed by a horse does nothing for me. Horses kill 100 people a year. usually that's an accident that's like putting cars on this list deer at three same thing accidents elephants at two impossible to have a dramatic death at the hands of an elephant it's over fast you'd have to

make it look CGI you can see it now really unceremonious way to go and then at one they have homo sapiens and homo sapiens are super deadly so I'm with you on that probably for me I nice, drawn out, valiant effort, fearless effort, you know, maybe a grizzly bear, a large American animal. If I get killed by one of the big five in Africa, it's not that I don't think that's, you know, any more or less romantic. When a white dude gets killed by one of the big five in Africa, that means they were one of these asshole hunters where they got out of their safari truck. Okay, if I get killed by a grizzly bear, I'm out exploring the expansive American Northwest. I'm, you know, fjording a river on the Oregon Trail. I'm being like, I'm on my lumberjack

shit, and that's just how I went down. So, so guys, time out. I totally, I totally slighted great apes, like silverbacked gorillas, that sort of thing. I don't know if an orangutan could kill you. I imagine they could if they wanted to. I think a chimpanzee could kill you, but I did not include silverbacks. Silverback would just, I feel like silverback would be painful. They would just beat you to death. Whereas these other predators, these toothy predators, they go for the neck. It's over fast.

My producer, John, one of my producers just dropped a jewel here and said that these big guerrillas, they'll rip your dick and your balls off. So definitely not wanting to get killed by one of those. And I appreciate the reminder there. That's what my team does. They keep me in check. So I'm sorry if I omitted the whole silverback gorilla genre of frightening animals that could take your life. Yeah, great question there.

Hopefully you guys feel the same way. Really quick. Last one here before we get to Jim and Pat. So Kyle Holloway asks what the best spots in Virginia. Virginia to hike are and says I don't talk enough about hiking. I just don't want y'all to like turn this pot on and be like this fucking hippie. All he talks about is like music and hikes and, you know, like marijuana questions. My favorite hikes in Virginia are both in Nelson County, actually.

I mean, well, okay, so that's not counting humpback rocks, which is terrific. And it's close to Charlottesville. It's right there up the hill. from Crozay and all that stuff west of Charlottesville if you know if you know Charlestville before you go over the mountain to Waynesboro also Spy Rock Spy Rock is my favorite hike in Virginia that I've been on I've done old rag Crabtree Falls is great right there the great thing about Spy Rock is it's right next to Crabtree Falls which is an enormous waterfall relatively speaking it's one of the highest I think east of the Tennessee river or something or east of Tennessee I don't know

I'm fucking up my you guys can back check me on that one it's a big waterfall it's beautiful A lot of people died on that waterfall, though, because people are not careful. And nowadays, everybody needs to, by the way, I saw a video of a woman playing dead in front of a bison this week. How you get in a situation where you have to play dead in a herd of bison is that you have a cell phone and you really wanted that shot. I think that's the only reason you end up in those situations. So as a general rule, when you're risking your life to post a cool picture on Instagram, just realize that nobody gives a shit. and maybe you should try to live. Same thing with big waterfalls, like Crabtree Falls.

Stay on the trail. But Spy Rock is the best. 360-degree view, a huge boulder. It's the right time it takes to get up there. If you're really humping it, it takes like 45 minutes an hour to get up there. And it's gorgeous. It is absolutely gorgeous. So try Spy Rock.

Last question was Philly related. A question for the mailbag from a birds fan. This is from Sean. Are you proud of your achievements on the field or off of them? I hope you always consider Philly a second home. Wish you were there longer. Thank you so much. I do wish I was there longer in Philly.

You know, there was a lot of things. There were a lot of things in my career that would have been made better. But I try not to change anything. I try not to look back and regret anything because, man, although we struggled in St. Louis and now I'm NFL homeless as far as like, you know, my first and longest tenured team, there's no team there anymore. I still met so many great fans. That's why, although there wasn't a lot of success there,

there's a lot I wouldn't trade, you know, from a team perspective. We didn't win a lot, but I think it made me the person I am today. And I don't know if I don't go through that, if I don't go all in for winning late in my career and not chase a check. So in Philly, you know, it's a bit of a touchy subject for me because I was often a little bit, I sometimes felt like a little bit under the radar are, you know, not spiteful, but I felt like at times when I walked into new locker rooms, I had done as much as any pass rusher in the room throughout my career.

You know, if you looked up at, you know, statistics and metrics, it's funny how people think that, you know, stats matter, you know, sacks matter, hits, hurries matter until, you know, somebody's trying to discredit your career because it's you're old or you're out of gas and that sort of thing. And I had exhibited for a long time that was productive. And I thought that sometimes I didn't get the respect that I deserved, not until late in my time in Philly. I'm not talking about Philly fans. I'm just talking about it in general. So I got uncomfortable at times with the fact that I was doing all these good things off the field. And that's kind of what I became known for. Like, listen, I love that people think I'm a good guy. I mean, I don't, that's not why I do stuff.

I would contend that I'm not that good a guy. I just have been really productive off the field. But what used to bother me is that, you know, I played eight years in the darkness and did a lot of things that had I done them in Philly. You know, I would have been a lot more well known for my play on the field. And that's one of my biggest regrets about my career. And it's not something that I could have done anything about, but just, you know, playing football in the dark and your prime on the field,

it only matters if people see it. And by the time you get to a new city or a new team, you know, nobody gives a shit because they didn't see it. And, you know, I kind of got known as this vet, this locker room guy. That became like coded talk for me and also community guy. That kind of, I'm not some community mascot. Listen, I love doing the community work I did. I'm extremely honored to do some of the things that we've been able to do with the Chris Long Foundation. But, you know, what I poured my life into was playing football.

So I would hope people just remember that I could play ball too, is all I'm saying. But that's a good question. So without further ado, let's get Jim and Pat on, or let's roll the tape on that interview. And it was a fun one. I learned a lot new about my favorite band. So roll it. Okay, so we are going to get to the waterfall too, which is magnificent. It's right on time.

A lot of Jacket fans were clamoring for this for more music from our guys. But we'll get to that in a few. We've got them here, Jim and Pat. And I guess I wanted to ask you guys right off the bat, how has social isolation affected y'all? Because you're in a business where you see people with regularity in mass. How has it affected you to be alone? It's been really tough. I mean, I'm a single person and, you know, I, you know, the grass is always greener.

I hear a lot of my friends who are, you know, have kids and stuff. And I wish I could just get a moment's peace, you know. And then somebody like me with no kids or whatever, I'm like, I wish somebody was here. I'm just so lonely. You know, so it's been a challenging time. But I think that's one thing I kind of find comfort in is, you know, it's challenging for everybody. You know, there's nobody is unaffected. And so we're all in it together, which is comforting.

I mean, for me, it's truly day by day. You know, it's like, what can I? What are the small things I can find today to stay. to stay happy or not go insane versus what would I what you know sometimes I drive myself insane stressing about all the things I can't do and all the things I miss and all the things I wish were happening and that just starts to drive you crazy so I'm trying to each day find just you know whatever it is that that is good in that day yeah and I'm on the flip side of that coin that he was talking about where you know I'm used to

Well, I won't say I will agree with Jim wholeheartedly that I think everybody's just dealing with a whole lot of change right now. And I think I would use to a little more, I think everybody's used to a little more space on my end of the spectrum. My wife and daughter included, trust me, I'm not the only one here. They're tired of my underwear being on the ground and, you know, all points in between. you can use your imagination. But on the other side of it, man, I was just talking. Actually, me and Jim were on my back porch with a couple other guys, just kind of having a nice chat about just life in general.

And Jim, I'm not going to speak for you. I'm only going to speak for me. But, I mean, I've traveled nonstop for the last 20 years plus. So that, for that to come to a grinding halt has been. and pretty damn jarring, if I do say so. Because I'm home for a little while, and then it's time to go out on a new adventure. And my heart is seeking that for sure.

And then, of course, there's the inevitable performance aspect of it that I really, I mean, you don't know how much you miss it until you're forced to not be able to do it. And that's one of the toughest things. It's just not being able to play for people and have that dance back and forth between a band and a crowd. I always feared being alone. Like, I'm an independent person,

but I always feared, like, being faced with the prospect of unrelenting self-reflection. Or, like, you know, and that's when, you know, to Jim's point, that's where the family helps, I guess, but, you know, where the guys that voice that Jim mentioned, I wish we had some peace and quiet. Exactly. But I do feel like I find myself like making up errands. Like my lovely wife Meg doesn't listen to this podcast as much as she says she does.

But because then my plans would be foiled. But you do need to escape. But I feel like I've been able to work on me more. I don't know if you guys feel that. But when you've been on a treadmill for years and for me it coincides with retirement. So all these fears are at once. I'm facing them. Right.

And you know, like I've been able to work on me. I don't know. I've learned myself a little bit more. Do you get that sense at all? Absolutely. I mean, I just, that's funny. I was just literally in therapy before this. I was on my therapy Zoom call.

And, you know, I feel like that's the phase I'm in right now as getting to know myself, learning to know myself better, learning to respond in kinder ways to myself and just deal with, deal with loneliness and deal with yourself in a different way. because we all have our ways of dealing that we've developed over the years. Some of them unhealthy, some of them healthy. And, you know, I was just talking to my therapist telling her that, you know, I was driving around last night and I saw, drove past several places where there were large groups of people outside, you know, like at a bar or a restaurant or whatever.

And it really triggered me because I felt so sad that I couldn't be there with them because I'm missing that so much. but on the other hand I felt like well I feel a little bit scared I don't know if they're being safe you know according to COVID rules and stuff like that so I was like you know so normally I feel like that would have triggered me and I would have come home and been depressed and bummed out but but instead you know I've just been working with her to to think about like what else can I do so I called an old friend I hadn't talked to in a while and that kind of brought me some more peace and for me it's just realizing like how can I do these small things to help myself. Because, you know, what I want is a hug. And if I can't, if I can't get a hug, I can either get really bummed out about it and really depressed and really down. Or I can take a smaller measure and give somebody a phone call where it's not the hug I

want, but it's a step in between that I've been skipping. You know, I've just been kind of bottoming out and getting bummed out. So I'm trying to learn to take these these baby steps like Bill Murray learned to take And what about Bob? Terrific, terrific movie. I watched a lot as a kid. My parents love quoting that movie. I mean, they love quoting that.

I went back and watched it as an adult, and it wasn't quite as good as when I was a kid, but it's still damn good. But there's that void of like, you know, being under the gun. And I know, Jim, you've had side projects in the music industry. We'll talk about what is, SG Goodman and the record that you produced. And Pat, I know that you're moving and shaken in Louisville. but like there's this void that for the first time you don't feel like you're under the gun to a degree

at least for me and I'm like oh I can be healthier I can reach out I can strategize the ways that make me happier and that sort of thing so I think it's it's like if you look at it in some sort of a positive light maybe we can all be better when we come out of this thing and they open the gates and we can be with each other so that's what I'm going for yeah and Pat you're a hugger I know you I mean like I'm a big hugger man I know that's like that's like It is robbing a man of natural tendencies. Yeah. It's not right, baby.

It's not right. Bring hugs back. Bring hugs back. I want to bring hugs back. We got to get, like, come on, just wear your masks so I can come give you a hug. I think you got a nice side business there. I mean, just like pay a fee to get a hug from Pat, which is a glorious hug. That's some front line stuff right there.

I don't know if I'm prepared for that responsibility. Yeah, we're going to have to get some vaccinations going from. Oh, yeah, hell yeah. It's coming. Short-sighted to expect a flood of like big, powerful, impassioned music. I would think us as fans, we assume that all, and I think there's probably a problem with this, that all artists have to be tortured and angry and in despair to make great music. and is that short-sighted to expect some flood of music like that?

I mean, it's tough because, I mean, I'm kind of always trying to figure out ways to destroy that myth, because that myth has destroyed so many people, you know. And I remember, you know, when I grew up, Kurt Cobain and the whole grunge revolution was happening, and so much of that music is so tortured. You know, it's so pain-based. And that's what I grew up on. And obviously, everybody feels a lot of pain as a teenager and a lot of confusion and stuff. But, you know, I'll never forget seeing, hearing Stevie Wonder, hearing Curtis Mayfield, like, you know, you open up the gatefold on Curtis Mayfield's first solo record.

And he's got his daughter on his shoulders. And they both look so happy, you know, and I was just like, I want to try and create more art that reflects that side of life, the happier side of life. but you know also your life dictates what you make and uh yeah i mean for a lot of people this time is is really tough so i mean who knows what kind of music's going to come out of it um i mean we've seen some already but it i mean i think most artists too are kind of generally have an easier tendency to get sad or get lost in the world um i know i've always struggled to feeling like i don't fit in uh really anywhere in the world. And so it's a constant struggle. And I might just add on to that and kind of shine some light up,

Chris, where you are in your career, you went into retirement. You chose that path. You're like, you know what? It's about that time that I'm like, I've just done with this and I want to do something else. So you were kind of already on that mental path going into things. And I think it's different to be forced into a retirement situation or at least an arrested development, so to speak. And that's when this stuff is especially hard on me is that I didn't choose this. And I fought it for a long time and I'm just coming to peace with it now. I mean, it's taken a mind of just like not being able to bring people together. That's what we do.

And, you know, that's been a tough part of this. But I don't think that writing from a place of pain, like what Jim is saying, is necessarily the truth for a lot of people. Because I feel like the more people I talk to, I mean, there's so much going on. It's an inundation of bad news. Yeah. Yeah, it's a bad news festival. It's like, where do we start? I know, but it's also like there's a lot of time for self-reflection.

There's a lot of time to spend with people that you wouldn't normally spend where you're in a shared space. I'm talking about my family, for instance. I haven't gotten to spend long periods of time with them ever, but I'm spending more time on the phone. Jim and I talk, what? We've had our Thursday calls for a while now. that's more than we've talked in how long.

Yeah, that's true. There's definitely, like, points of this that, like, feed into the positive of, not only self-reflection, but just the output as well. I don't think too many people are writing from a, well, there are people writing from a place of pain, but there are also people writing from a place of change and positivity. And that's what I feel. I do feel, and this is the funny thing about the album. Again, that's the waterfall, too, for those of y'all who haven't heard it, go check it out.

The funny thing about the album, it's so needed right now, it does have a hopeful sense about it. And that makes sense, because I don't know that, I don't want to speak for you. I don't know if you'd be able to make that music right now in this time. And obviously, these songs are five years old. The interesting thing to me is that it aligns nicely with a hopeful, you know, message. It's era appropriate. It's seasonably appropriate. it feels like a summer album and it drops into our laps.

Where does it rank as far as albums that you were nervous about putting out? Because I could imagine you guys evolve every year. Your sound evolves every album. And it's not some linear journey. I'm not insinuating that. But things change. People change. Five years, that's a lot of change.

Is it more nerve-wracking to put something out that's five years old and you're like, I'm not that person anymore? You know, it's funny. In a lot of ways, it was less nerve. racket because yeah it's there's a certain amount of uh i don't for me it's like now i mean you i i i always hope that people love the record you know like i always it's not that i don't care what people think but after so many years of releasing records now i'm just used to half people hate it half people love it you know kind of deal especially the internet i just

it's weird because so many of those songs i wrote after a huge relationship dissolved and fell apart. And I was trying to make sense of that, but also still stay hopeful. So I feel like maybe that's why it resonates right now, is that there has been this huge loss that we're all grieving, which is normal life. You know, we've lost normal life, and we're all in this stage of suspended grief trying to deal with what this new life has, you know, for better or worse. But I think, you know, we're still holding on to hope and, you know, praying and hoping that it will get better.

But still that you have to deal with the grief because you can't just wash it all the way and pretend like this isn't happening. Yeah. Pat, do you hear that when you listen to the album removed from making it? Do you hear a sense of hope or is that the mood that's conveyed? Yeah, it's really funny, too. There's some, I won't go into specific examples, but there are, you know, just some things. that were in those songs that are like taking place now and you know like you don't ever plan on on feeling those you I guess we just hope for a timeless delivery on

things obviously Jim is the principal songwriter or the songwriter of the band and then we get to it and and really just try to add a timeless color to to it. And I know he's writing from a sense of timelessness, too. Yeah. I think I just didn't really think about it anymore. I don't really look back on things. I was always hoping, I really hope that some of those songs would have made it on Waterfall One.

So getting to put those out into the world and the possibility of playing those live are really enticing to me. But just the overall message, I, you know, I think it was a, wonderful coincidence that it just kind of flowed together. I think we're really fortunate to have that art at our disposal and there's so many other people doing it right now too. How do you put together in sequence and weave a B-side kind of deal that you all did where you're pulling songs that, not because they weren't great, they're great songs, but you just didn't think they fit correctly with the other songs. I know you guys had talked about maybe doing like a triple album and that sort of

thing. How does that evolution go from? Oh shit, we have too many songs to, hey, how can we piece this together and weave it together five years later? Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, I really tell people like, and I know this isn't what you meant, but for me, these songs definitely aren't beast size. They're, there's songs that, that I loved as much as any of the songs on Waterfall one, but when we piled them all together, it's just like, it's just way too much, you know, We're just like, I don't care how much a person likes the band or doesn't like the band. It's just way too much. So, and it actually did this really cool thing because I think it gave the record, the waterfall two, kind of this unique, I'll say mellow for lack of a better word, but most of the record's pretty mellow.

I mean, it's got its points of rock and roll or whatever. but I think in doing that, because if we would have put all of those songs somewhere in the huge sequence of Waterfall One, I think the whole record just would have been like this lost kind of thing. But I feel like all these songs kind of went together. And at least for me, sequencing them, they all kind of spoke in this cool way where it made this cool journey that wouldn't have happened if we would have tried to force them all onto the waterfall one. Yeah, I mean, it's a selfless business decision. It's not a business decision putting this album out right now because you don't get the tour on it. You know, like, and as fans, we're like, we're listening and we're wondering, you know, hey, what song do I want to hear?

What part of which song? I mean, like, for me, the light at the end of the tunnel, I texted pat this is the second half of wasted. I mean, I'm picturing, and I don't know if Ohana happens next fall or whatever, but do you guys have moments in the album that you most look forward to concretely playing whenever this thing passes? I mean, for me, it's wild because the music shifts and changes, and I know Patrick will laugh because he knows how bad I am about this. I had songs for some reason come and go out of my favor, almost beyond my understanding. I'll love a song for a year and then I'll hate it the next year for

no reason. Oh my God. And then five years later, I'll love it again. I'll be like, oh my God, why haven't we been playing this song? And everybody laughs. Give me an example, Jim. Give me an example. Oh, I mean, really in a lot, most songs, you know, there's like, I mean, there's some songs, I guess, that you could consider our staples that are kind of kind of always in there. But it's like, there's so many songs that I just like, for whatever reason, I just be like, oh, God, I hate that song. Can you play out your own songs? Like, I always wonder that, like, I hate everything I do, I can't listen to my voice I have to edit and my producers

Cowboy Reach out to Cowboy Read We'll hop on afterwards and like go back to it I'm like guys cut this cut this I fucking hate this Okay like I sound like I'm okay and most times Nobody else notices so when you make music It's so personal you're showing your soul Which is way more personal than podcasting Do you sometimes dislike your music

And then if you play it repeatedly night in and night out Are there songs that you're like To your point they've fallen out of favor Well for me it's like a time time machine and one of the greatest joys for me is leaving the music behind because i i love to make a record and then let it go and then work on the next record and then let that go and keep going and records are different because the record is literally a capture of you at that time it's a capture of a person named jim singing about something five years ago or 10 years ago or 20 years ago that

person is forever frozen in time and then he changes you know and now i'm i'm i'm Jim who's completely different than that that old Jim. So for me, it then becomes this thing of how does New Jim feel about what old Jim said back then, you know, and how can New Jim figure out a different way to sing this? Or maybe we'll change the key or maybe, you know, it's like, so it's almost like as I change as a person, the way I relate to all those old versions of me changes too. You know, so if I'm, if I'm more happy, I relate to certain songs that were happier old Jim wrote, or if I'm more sad. You know, it's just like it kind of does this weird thing.

And I think that's what I was, when the guys and I get into a good nature argument about these songs, I'm like, man, I'm always like, just remember, like, the one thing that's tough being the singer is, is you have to can, you have to pull up that emotion. And I don't ever want to lie to the audience and, and, and, and, put. out false emotion. So a lot of things, if I can't sing them, it's because I can't relate to them at that point in my life. And I don't want to give this weird because then I feel like you're almost turning into

some kind of theatrical performance. You know, you're almost becoming an actor of yourself. And, you know, and I mean, I don't mean that in disrespect to actors or theater people, but for me, it's like when you're trying to put on a concert of a, of a pure,

the most pure emotions you can fine. For me, I have to listen to that in my feelings to the song. What happens then, Pat and Jim, if there's dissension, you know, like, and somebody's like, dude, I don't like this song, you know, like, or, you know, is that too personal to ask you guys? Well, it's super cool because I feel like the guys are all really respectful of that aspect of it. And we were just, Patrick and I were just talking on the phone before we got on this about the new record we're working on. And he was giving me some of his honest thoughts about it. He's like, oh, man, I know that, you know, you've got song X on there, but I'm really missing this song Y that we took off. And I'm

just wondering, you know, wondering about that. And so we've got this really great dialogue where everybody gives me their honest opinion. And then I take their opinion and go listen to it or think about it. But at the end of the day, since I'm the one that has to sing it, I feel like they're all have been really respectful to that front. Sure. Let me just go on record. I don't mean to interrupt you by just saying, especially when it comes to like the older stuff,

if he were to in turn ask me to read a poem that I wrote in like 1999 in front of a crowdful of people, I don't want to read it in front of my mirror. So you can imagine like drumming up, for lack of a better word, those emotions and delivering them to people, we've always understood that. There are just songs that each of us falls in and out of love with. It's not just singing, it's everything that I think, you know, we've just been together a long time, and that just naturally happens.

But I will say that absence does make the heart grow fonder in most instances. And I would pretty much play anything that you wanted me to play right now. You got them right where you want. You got them right where you want. Whatever you want. Let's go. God. Just put me in front of a crowd right now. Yeah, this Zoom stuff is working well for Jim.

Hey, so I know that, like, I was watching the stream, and then that was really cool to see all that excitement drummed up between a really loyal fan base within a day, I mean, a day or two. And I'm watching the YouTube, and there's so many people, as people do, pulling like, oh, I hear this influence. I hear that influence. And I guess all music is inherently influenced somehow. You learn music.

There's things you're excited about and you gravitate to those sounds. But it sounded like there were a lot of, I don't know if they're nods or influences on this album. Was it more than usual? Or is that something that, you know, fans are imagining? I mean, no, I don't think there's anything more than usual. There's never deliberate influences. Like we're never like, we're never like, let's deliberately make this sound like this. But of course, there's influences in there.

course there's things that are going to kindred spirits with bands we love or artists we love or whatever. So I think that always goes in there. I don't know. I mean, I think everybody just has things that pop up and that they want to talk about. But really, all the albums,

at least from my advantage point, are the same in that regard. It's like I have a batch of songs and then we start working on those songs and everybody tries as hard they can. Yeah. And that's it.

You know, it's like there's never like a conscious decision to make one thing sound like another thing. Yeah, like we need to represent this artist once this, I mean, this album. Yeah, I mean, and that's why that could be frustrating, I'm sure, if you're making it because I'm watching people contend that they hear this. And they may well hear that. And I may well hear something, but that's not always, that's confusing, like, you know, the identification of it and the intent to literally be like, hey, we're going to make this song

as a nod to Neil Young or, you know, to Beatles or something like that. So, I mean, do you guys, do you guys over your years, I mean, from the late 90s to now, are you more apt to experiment or is the safety net bigger to experiment with? You know, like if you had your 2020 safety net as artists, would you do the same things in 1999? Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel like we love to experiment. And that's one thing. I think most people probably would give the band,

whether they like the band or not, we do try a lot of different things. We do experiment with sounds and styles and stuff. And that's like my favorite part of music. I mean, so I think, again, it's like, that's why I love working with these guys, is everybody just comes in so pure and we're just like, let's try this song.

And we try it slow and dreamy, and it's not working. And we try it super, fast and you know whatever we try a million different ways and uh i don't know i think music is such a i mean next to love itself it's just one of the most beautiful things we have on the planets i mean as human beings so we all try not to limit it we always try to be open to whatever it might it might say stewards to it yeah how about bow because i i want to talk up our guy beau here and bow is not only a terrific dude, but a terrific musician.

And everybody shined through on this album. But I thought Bo had some awesome moments that I was just like, oh yeah, and I'm just nodding my head and I'm just picturing him in his hat, you know. Why does he look younger than me? And he's like, how old? Like, is he a vampire? 82. Yeah, he's 95, yeah.

He's like Highlander. Bo had some great moments. And I know he got to, and you guys have played, or Jim, you had played at least with Roger Waters, right? And he got to go tour with Roger. And he told me a little bit about it. But I can only imagine somebody who really knows his craft from playing with him for so long. He's already amazing. But if a football player goes and trains with, you know, gurus or whatever or just works with a guy,

you come back with different tools in your toolbox. Did you notice a difference when Bo came back? Not in the sense that he's better, but he's trying different things. and how did that manifest? Definitely, Bo, when he was out with Roger, I mean, you're out with somebody like Roger Waters. I mean, that's top of the mountain. You know, that's like as high as you can get

in the circles of psychedelic rock and roll. You know, I mean, Roger Waters wrote the book, you know, and it's like for Bo to get to tour with him day in and day out, he did come in with so many new tricks. And he came in with a new mastery of things like the Hammond organ, You know, that, I mean, we've used organ on albums in the past, but, you know, he came in with this new knowledge of how to really play an organ and how to really mess the sense and just all this.

We've always been more, you know, I'll mess with anything. I'll just start twiddling knobs on anything until I find a sound I like, but it was cool. He came back with this new knowledge, a definite, like, new knowledge of how to mess with things. And, I mean, Bo's playing's always been impeccable. I mean, he's a tremendous player. But it was cool to see him kind of, yeah, learn even more. I mean, that's the great thing about Bo.

And I feel like really all of us is we all want to keep that beginner's mind. So we keep growing, you know, you keep learning until the day you die. You know, you're never going to run out of things to learn. Right. I will just add on to this, that Bo went into that Roger Waters scenario with, like, he was the right man for the job. Don't like let's not forget that those songs are in his wheelhouse like nobody's business and Beau has so many other textures that he can bring, but When he got that call, I mean, I was sitting next to him on the bus and it was just like oh my god, of course

And when we played with with Roger live at a we did what Newport Pult Festival. We did Bridge School what else? What else? Bridge School benefit and we did a love for Leavon. benefit with him. And each time, you could just hear Bo like immediately morph into that world like that. So he was definitely the right man for the job in that one. How about touring? Because this is so it's always, and I've been around you, especially Pat, and some of my friends who play music with regularity and they're logging the miles. How quickly did it become, you know, go from being a dream like, hey, we made it. Look at all these people. I'm partying. I'm having a

a good time to like a washing machine where you're saying where the fuck am i what city is this i'm tired uh maybe i want to go home or did it ever make that transition oh my god yeah i mean there's i i i think it affected me most of all i'm not speaking for you patrick but i i got brutalized by it i mean i ended up in the hospital three different times over the years for injuries from being on the road and i think the thing looking back that i really realized i didn't know how to say no and that's a big thing, especially when you're in a band that's trying to climb the ladder and trying to, you know, make a living and you keep getting all these opportunities that are really great. You know, oh, so-and-so band wants you to open up for them and here's this tour and that tour.

And for so long, we just never said no. And for me, it just literally started to kill me, you know, and I didn't know how to deal with it. And now, you know, once we got to a place where we learned how to say no and be more strategic about what we took, what we said yes to, then it all started to make sense. But even now, I mean, I struggle with it so much. Because you get excited and you jump back in,

and I'm sure once the world opens back up again and we're post-COVID, we're going to have to really watch ourselves again because we're going to be so excited and we're going to say yes to, if we don't watch ourselves, we'll say yes to too many things and then repeat this pattern of getting destroyed and getting burned out.

So I think for me at least it's just a matter of I'm terrible at being strategic at things because I just tend to go with my heart. Impulse, man. Yeah. But you really, I feel like you really do have to be strategic and that's kind of where Beau comes in and he's got a real good. He'll be the one that's like, oh, well, okay, you just said yes to, you know, a thousand things in a row.

Are you sure? And I'll be like, oh, look at this list, man. What do you think about this? Bring it in. Yeah. Yeah. What about the mental health aspect to it? Because I can only imagine.

I think everybody is dealing with something and that attrition, the sleep schedule, the, you know, the booze sometimes. Jim, you talked about in the Jerry Garcia deal, like long, strange trip or whatever it was and being like, holy shit, I got to change some things like, do you guys have realization sometimes where you're like, this is not, there's more than one ways to tour? I mean, everybody looks at touring one way from the outside end, but that's not the reality. Well, you just got to be strategic about it because you got to make ends meet for yourself and the team, too, for all your crew and everybody involved. So obviously, the more shows you play, the more money you make and all that stuff. But it's like, for me, yeah, it just starts to kill me because the more down, like it's like it all turns into a snowball because the unhealthy you get and the more beat up you get, the more you start to dream. and the more you start to self-medicate and that makes you more unhealthy

and you just go down, down, down. And I get so terrible about realizing that all until it's too late. And then I'm in the hospital and I'm like, you know, we're canceling months of shows and everything is just completely fucked. It's like you've got to realize it before then. And again, it's like,

I think for us what we're finally learning how to do is just like really get out the calendar and really get out the, and be strategic about it. it and say, okay, we need to make X amount of dollars to pay for our crew and do yada yada and just kind of figure out what you can do and make it work in the best way possible without blindly just jumping in again. Pat, how do you feel after a show with how physical your job is?

Well, to just kind of piggyback on what you all are saying, it kind of depends on where we are in the tour and like how things have been going and how strategic we have been. But, you know, but the most part, I feel really amazing after it's like a very very, really good workout and you know a lot of the the best shows that we've had i i don't remember them that's a total meditation so coming out of something like that is really centering and and wonderful but um yeah i and i'm i feel like i'm kind of built for touring i've really like i i like travel and being in a different place every day and and and And that shines light back to what I was saying earlier about what I'm missing about things.

But for the most part, I feel pretty great after a show. Like, I'm just exhausted, obviously. But it's just such a joy. It's such a joy to perform in front of people. And our fans are so dedicated and such a part of the show that, you know, even if I don't, even if I'm not looking at them, I'm feeling their energy. And that, you know, I might be having a bad night. We might, I might be sick.

Yeah. Through 105 degree fevers of, like, and Jim has two, you know, we all have. And, you know, the crowd, a good crowd will get you through just about anything. Jim, with your voice. I think about, you know, Pat talking about ailments. I know that like, during a football season, you're perpetually run down anyways. If on Friday, my hip flexor starts to feel funny, I'm like, oh, fuck, don't do this.

My biggest fear was waking up Sunday with back spasms, which I'm going to play through. I'll drag my legs around and they can shoot me up. But if your voice starts to go, do you live in a state of paranoia of like a little cold or something that affects your vocals? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a super stressful thing,

especially when you're touring in the fall and winter. It's like you're kind of constantly, you know, you have dinner with a friend somewhere in some town and they're coughing and you're like, Oh, shit. Now am I going to get sick or all. You know, and it's like, but I feel like you just really, that stuff, though, I realize now. I didn't always realize this.

But stuff that's not in my control, I can't worry about it. You know, it's like forces of the universe want me to get sick, some show somewhere, then it's going to suck, but it's going to happen. That's the thing about being a singer, unfortunately, that sucks. You can't, you can't fake your way through some sicknesses. You can't play through it. You know, it's like, if you're voicembrose. voice to shut down with mucus and strep throat or whatever you may have, you can't sing, you know.

And I'll never forget we did the show in a, all the way, all the way to Brussels, you know, some tour this is a year to go. I was sick all day and we, you know, I was stressing all day long and we were trying to decide whether to cancel the show or not. And we tried to play through. And I like croaked my way through five or six songs. And then, you know, we played some instrumental for a while, and I just, I had to leave the stage. I couldn't do it.

And I was walking out to the bus in the front. And this guy is like, I liked you better when you could sing. No. What did I call? I know. And I was like, man, like, it's not like I don't want to sing. You know, it's like I'm helpless here. What's the song you realized it was a no-go?

Was it like Gideon or something? No, it was before that. It was a maybe in the it still moves there. I can't even remember. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, speaking of like the parallels for me between athletics and music and I really do think

you guys, there's an argument to be made for you guys being athletes. I really do, depending on what you're doing, your stage presence, that sort of thing. When I went to see chili peppers for first time my life, I was like,

you cannot tell me flee is not an athlete. Oh, totally. My God. When I watch Pat hammer on the drums, I'm like, that is an endurance sport. When I watch Florence run around barefoot and do like a half marathon

during a show, Florence Welsh, I mean, these are, do you buy that that musicians or athletes? Oh, absolutely. And athletes, athletes are musicians and artists,

too. You know, you watch, I feel the same way watching an amazing sporting performance where I'm like, this is art. You know, this person,

this team, the way they work together, the way they flow, they enter that flow state, and their performance, whether they're throwing a football or a basketball or whatever they're doing in their athletic performance, to me, that's exactly the same thing as art, you know, and yeah, our performances are so athletic and we are sweating so much and, yeah, running around and holding this heavy guitar for three hours and screaming and singing, and it's visceral and sweaty and, and athletic. That's why I'm all about tearing down any walls I can. And I feel like, so there's so many unnecessary walls between the worlds of sports and music that I think are just so, it's so

kind of funny because it's all to me the same thing. You enter that flow state. You become one with the universe, whether it's in your sport or your art, you know, and that that's the one of the most beautiful things we can do. Yeah, you don't remember. You know, you don't remember your big sequences or at least on the field. If you told me, describe moments in a Super Bowl. I would say, I can give you a smell. I can give you a sound. But it's like if you slapped a GoPro on me within my memory, it'd be like I was drunk. I don't remember anything. Right. Well, that's so crazy. I think that a lot of, well, I know that a lot of what we've done leading up to that point, there's no different between a musician or an athlete. Because all that practice, you can't get to a flow state without getting to all, like, getting all those things out of the way where you don't have to think about them and you just, like, execute.

And, yeah, that's the exact same. Like, I don't remember half of the Red Rock's performances. I don't think I remember. I'm glad you mentioned that. I'm so glad you. The ones that you and your family came to, man, there's, it might have been that. It was either night one. I believe it was night one.

Like, I don't remember playing anything from, like, I remember walking out and being like, holy shit. I feel so fortunate that the five of us are walking back on a stage together again. And these people care. and then I don't remember anything. And I just think about all the decisions and all the sacrifices and time away and time in my basement practicing and all that stuff that like I did and that each of us did and thinking about all the training and games and like coaching that you've gone through throughout all that. And you're leading up to those moments. That's how you get to that flow state.

Then all those things are automatic. and you're reacting to the element. And I mean, what's better than that? There's nothing better than it. And I guess my big question on this one is the flow state, whether you're in the zone and you have a three-sac game on the field or you know, or you play just a Red Rocks type show, which, by the way, real quick story,

I brought my parents to that second show night two. And I, you know, it's hard to find tickets and get oriented at that magnificent location. But my parents were on the other side, like all by themselves and like, you know, general population. And me and my boys are on the other side for good reason. And I come over to spend the whole time with my mom. And, you know, imagine Howie Long's standing in a crowd of 20-something-year-old dudes,

30-something-year-old dudes, just you guys are rocking. And I come over and I'm like, how's it going, Mom? She's like, these lights are amazing. I go, you can only imagine, mom. I'm going to go back to my seats. Because you guys think the lights are amazing right now. Imagine how great I think the lights look. How do you stay grounded during like a Red Rock show?

Like, how do you stay grounded as artists that like we both run on as athletes, as musicians, that adulation that when everything's right, I have the power to put 70,000 people on their feet. And you guys can put 70,000 people on their feet for three hours. So how do you wake up the next day and then return to being Jim and Pat and stay grounded? I don't know. I think there's something, at least for me, it's all about my friends and family. You know, it's like I feel like there's this sense of, for me, there's a very direct and real

line between the edge of that stage. When I step onto that stage, I'm one person. And when I step off of the stage, I'm another person. And, and I really feel that. And it's almost like, I really don't remember the stage. You know, it's like I don't, when I'm not on the stage, I don't remember it. And when I'm on the stage, I don't remember real life. It's like a really, it's almost like,

I don't know, I just can't, I don't really think about it. And it's same with the studio. If I'm in the studio, I'm in the fucking studio. And I can't remember anything that's going on out in that world.

And that really gets in the way sometimes of real life. But when I leave the studio, I'm not in the studio anymore. So I don't know. All of the, everything's fleeting and everything's transitory.

And just because you played Red Rocks or you played in the Super Bowl, that doesn't mean you're going to have a great day with your partner the next day. You know, but I think people think that it does. You know, I think people think that that does translate to real life. You know, that, oh, you played in the Super Bowl, so real life must be great for you all the time, you know, and you're just like, you're like, go away, man. I hear it all the time.

Yeah. So it's like one of the things where it's like, yeah, for me, it's like they're just different worlds. Yeah. I will concur with all of that The only thing I may add is that there are times We've been off the road for a while that I'm thinking about You know, a week or two out getting back on that stage and being like holy

Shit, can I pull this off? You know? Right. Will this happen again? And then you get on the stage and you're like What? Yeah Like there's another world out there? You know, like they're just so funny People like the guy that's playing drums up on that stage is completely different. I mean, supported by the same foundation as me talking right now.

But, God, I don't even know who that guy is right now. Like, it just takes over. Yeah, I could totally relate to that. I mean, obviously, you know, like most athletes, I wish I could relate to it in a musical way, but I can't even pick up an instrument and hold it correctly. But it's true. You got to go into a different world.

You really do. And Red Rocks is one that I would imagine brings out, for you guys, why is it so special? And if you guys had carte blanche to create a fantasy stage in any geological setting in the world, where would it be? I'm talking pyramids, a fucking oil rig over the Gulf of Mexico, like the badlands. Where are we going, Jim? Where are we going, Pat?

I mean, I know I would like to play in the sequoias somewhere in the giant trees, but in a way that it was completely safe to the forest. you know and so there was no nothing was cleared out nothing was bulldozed there wasn't a huge stage you get to design the venue yeah it would just be all woven through the trees it'd be cool to get an experience where people uh could be in amongst the trees and you could get the sound cool and stuff but you wouldn't you wouldn't hurt the environment you know i think red rocks resonates so much because it's actually a great and respectful use of sacred land you know it's like we're There's this sacred land and it's being used for something beautiful for music and art.

So I think when you respect the land, the land respects you. And that's, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, that's just beyond words. Pat, where are you going? I have a couple, but just the one that's kind of coming up the most right now is I'd like to be in a canyon with mountains around it. I don't know whether it's Switzerland. or, you know, where the mountains are uplit at night. So you're getting all the detail going up,

and then you just have that backdrop playing at the bottom of that, with the lighting director playing off the mountains as a canvas. Shout out to Mark Janowitz, if you're listening to this, this is your homework for the next tour. Hey, listen, I got, my farm's pretty mountainous. you all have an open invitation. Go.