Green Light with Chris Long - Mike Mayock! Caleb Williams, NFL Draft & Combine! Beau Allen on the 2024 Edge Rusher Draft Class

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

NFL Combine Recap! Mike Mayock joins Chris and Macon to talk about the performances from the 2024 NFL Combine, how those performances will affect the 2024 NFL draft, what the Bears could potentially do with Justin Fields and tells an amazing Kyle Long story. After Mike, Beau Allen joins to preview the 2024 edge rusher draft class and recap the best performances from the NFL Combine. (00:00) - Chris and Beau on Jason Kelce's retirement from the NFL (4:55) - Mike Mayock on the 2024 NFL Combine, the Bears decision at #1, Caleb Williams and Advanced Scouting Metrics (53:15) - Beau Allen and Chris breakdown the 2024 NFL Edge Rusher Draftees and recap the best performances from the NFL Combine Want your Green Light Merch so you can look exactly like Chris and the fellas? Hit the website below and get kitted! https://stores.kotisdesign.com/yotehouse/products Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ Send any Talent Search submissions to: [e-mail] Include any video of your talents, takes and bits as well as a little bit about yourself. Love hearing from the Green Light fans. Also, check out our paddling partners at Appomattox River Company to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. https://paddleva.com/ Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light Tube YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenLightTube1 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As far as trading Justin Fields, you know, I see a lot of stuff out there about what's the best timing. Should they do it now when team, before free agency, when teams need quarterbacks and there's a bunch of teams, will that maximize value? Or would waiting until near the draft or during the draft maximize value? I can tell you from my experience, I've always believed that if you control quality, if you control, value, you're going to be fine with leverage. So I think there's going to be a market for fields if they want to move them. And I think that whether it's now or later, they're going to be fine. I don't think it matters all that much because they have the first pick. And they can be freely talking to any team, playing teams off against each other. There's leverage now. And I believe

there's going to be leverage for them later. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast. Thanks for tuning in today for a wonderful NFL draft and NFL Combine recap from Mike Mayock. Mike joins Chris and Macon. Chris is not in Studio Jay. Macon is you'll find out where Chris is later in the show. But we talk about Caleb Williams, Justin Fields, and the Bears decision at number one overall. Mike talks about some of the players that went viral for their performances. Mike breaks down some of the film he's seen so far leading up to the NFL draft.

He also tells some great stories from his days with the Raiders in the NFL He talks about the advanced metrics that NFL teams use to track and scout players. Also, the AI metrics that are becoming more and more popular. And then Mike ends with a great Kyle Long workout story. You won't want to miss that. We end today's show bringing on Bo Allen to preview this year's NFL draft edge rush class. Chris and Bo preview some of the top end talent, some sleepers, and give out some of the best names from the NFL Combine.

Y'all enjoy today's show and we will see you on Friday. the show everybody. I am on vacation. I'm not going to tell you where just yet. I'll wait until we're done with the Mike Mayock interview to expound on that a little bit. But Mayock's coming on.

I go way back with Mike Mayock. Love the guy. We're going to talk about the combine and all that good stuff. And then we've got the edge rushers later. Bo and Macon are with me. Bo, I think maybe we need to handle something. It is one o'clock on the dot.

I think this is when Jason Kelsey is announcing his retirement. We knew it before you guys. Yeah. And we didn't even fucking spill the beans. We could have leaked that shit and gotten tons of likes and subscribed, but we didn't because we're good friends. Good shit, Chris. Could have got so much fucking clout.

We're not getting any clout. We had to send in videos to say like, congrats on retirement. There's nothing I hate more than doing a selfie video. So awkward. I did mine in one take, bro. Didn't even look at it. It fired it away. Well, to be fair, they're like, hey, send some kind words to a guy who's retiring.

And then Bo is like, oh, I did mine in 10 seconds. I'm like, how do you do that without looking like you don't give a fuck about the guy? That's true. We'll see how it goes. You said you had something on the Kelsey retirement? Is there anything we can give? The green light put a little highlight tape together for them that we're going to throw out there today. It's going to be a good one.

Nice. Perfect. Okay. That's great. So if anybody listening, you now know that Jason Kelsey retired, but we knew before you. Because we're cooler than you. And yeah, like Schaefter might try to break it again, but you didn't know that, did you, Adam? Didn't know it until now. I'm going to pull up the press conference right now, and I want everybody to sit tight and enjoy Mike Mayock with me and Macon. and then me and Bo will be back to talk about the edge defenders in this year's draft.

It's good group, Chris. Yeah, Mike, what do you say? Schefter, eight seconds ago. Kelsey's restored. Oh, fucking congratulations. Congratulations, Adam. Per Jason. Here's Mike Mayak.

And live from my Bahamas Resort Conference Center, which is a really nice space. You can see the art on the wall. I've got Mike Mayock joining me. The Combine is going on. I know I'm at the beach, but it is a football week, and this is the guy that I wanted to have on to talk about all things Combine. Mike, how you been, man? We're doing great, Chris.

Couldn't be better. The Combine, I get a lot of memories from way back when it started in the early 2000s. And it's just crazy to me how far it's come. Yeah, what was the first combine you attended? Well, you'll probably get a kick out of this, but the first time we televised it was around, I want to say, 2004, 2005, and my dad was my high school football coach. But before being a high school coach,

he was an offensive line coach in college football. He was a tight end at Villanova. He was drafted by the Steelers. So he was an offensive line guy. Okay? And the first day was always offensive line. So the first year we did it, it's offensive line out the gate. And I'm all fired up after it's over.

And I want to hear what my dad thought of it. I run back to the hotel room. I call my dad. And I'm like, so what did you think? And he said, son, after six minutes of that offensive line mirror drill, I had to turn that shit off. Yeah. And I was like, if my dad, who's an offensive line guy, isn't going to watch the combine, who the hell is going to watch the combine?

And to my surprise, it took off like crazy. I mean, it's amazing. No, it is amazing. And right now, like, I think people are starting to talk about the fact that it is, like, there's a lot in it for the scouts. And obviously, the medical and the times are important. And the drills are amazing. but, you know, it is, it's entertainment as well. I mean, like, the league definitely gets a lot out of it.

So if you were in the business right now doing what you were doing a few years back and you were in there with a stopwatch or running meetings and that sort of thing, what do you think besides the times? Yeah. It's the number one thing that people are getting on the team side of things from this exercise. I think the number one thing is the same thing they got 40 years ago when the combine started, and that's medical. and the sharing of the medical.

And it is kind of intriguing to me that 32 teams can get the exact same x-rays and the exact same medical, yet they have differing opinions on whether or not a kid should be drafted or a kid should be demoted or a kid should be taken off the board. The starting right guard for the world champion Kansas City Chiefs. Trey had a heart condition. And he was at worst, a second round pick. and he went in the sixth round to the chiefs. And meanwhile, I got Gruden punching me. Like, let's go.

Let's take this kid in the fifth, six out. You know, he's a first or second round player, and our team doctors wouldn't let us. So that's just kind of one example of different ways that teams look at the medical. Kansas City said, hey, late in the draft, we'll take a chance. Our team said, no, we're not going to do that because it's a heart. It's not a knee.

So there's a whole bunch of different ways to look at it. Chris, the medical is still critical. I think it's harder and harder to get a real snapshot of what drives a kid in that 18-minute interview. You know, they're being so. What year did you come out? What were you, 0-8, 7? 0-8. Oh, 8, my draft year, yeah.

I'm curious as, so you're going to be a first-round pick. You're the son of a Hall of Fame guy. you were a sophisticated guy coming out in 08 as far as process, right? Today, almost all the kids are sophisticated. I mean, what was your takeaway of kind of like the interview process and how you felt as a player? Well, yeah, I thought, you know, it's funny because we covered this last week talking about a little bit, you know, like the genetic thing, the Hall of Fame dad thing, it's so funny every year that passes, the more times I look back at, there was nothing freaky about me at all.

You know, like these guys are freaks of nature. Like when you look at these 40s that these guys are running now, I think I ran a 475. You know, you look at some of these broad jumps, these vertical leaps. You know, I jumped to 34 and I was over the moon about it. And, you know, every year there's one or two edge guys jumping a 40. You know, the insane times that guys are coming in with. I think that's the biggest takeaway is for the first time in your life, you're in a place where

everybody in the place is a freak of nature. You know, and you can really get an idea looking at like people are marveling over this guy from Georgia. And he was standing there in the media pool. And he's the, he's the guard. Making, you know this guy. Marius Mims. He's a tackle.

Yeah. Yeah, to tackle. He's a freak. He's a stone freak. Mike may not be, you know, crunching tape anymore, but he knows exactly who this guy. No, I've watched, Chris, I've watched probably the top 100 players on tape. Okay, well, then this interview just changed. I'm just going to make you go through.

No, we're not doing that. But Marius Mims is a freak on tape as well as he. And he's got a lot to learn. Yeah. And, you know, he's raw as can be. But, man, would you like to work with that lump of clay? Man, and the lump of clay, he's the type of lump of clay that when I saw that picture of him and the picture was taken from behind him is the strangest thing.

When you've been in an NFL locker room, making you might not be able to relate to this but i can feel what it would feel like to pat him on the back you know like like like mike you know what i mean there's a certain time like i can look at a guy and be like yep if i patted him on the shoulder i'd be like yep that's an NFL player for 10 12 years the way he's built i could just feel how solid his shoulder the backstraps on this guy and like and i think that's that's the biggest eye-opening thing is like when you play in the acc or the you know the the cc you might see more of these guys but But for me, it was my senior year. It was Jeff Otaugh. It was seeing Orlando Franklin. These were guys to me that I was like, okay, this is what all the guys at the next level are from a size standpoint. And then you get in the room with them. I think also from the interview process, we're so prepared that we know as we're giving the interview that we could obscure our true selves a little bit. If you're good at it, you can you can play that game. I came into it when the

an attitude of they're going to know who I am. I'm going to be as honest as I can. I don't have anything to hide. And I think people appreciate that. But now I imagine I went, we were messing around looking for red flags on kids. We go back through their Instagram, you know, try to find nowadays kids really are shutting it down from a social media standpoint. You can tell these agents are really infiltrating every step of the process to make sure that there are no leaks, you know, as far as things you might not want the teams to know. And so I think right now it's got to be from a character standpoint as much of a guessing game as it was at any point, even though now you have more information than ever, because I feel like guys are so coached.

They're really well coached and you get 18 minutes and the horn blows. Yeah. You know, and what frustrated me a little bit when I was a GM, it's your first exposure for your coaching staff, to these kids. Okay, your area scout has seen Chris Long for three or four years now. Your area scout knows where he grew up, knows what his parents did for a living, knows what the kid's all about is watch them at practice, has watched them in the games, has written all kinds of reports. That gets translated into the scouting room with the GM and everybody else. We disseminate all that information, but the first time the coaches really see or hear about Chris Long or the seventh round pick from UVA is kind of at,

the combine, right? So first impressions are kind of intriguing to me. And kids that came off kind of energetic, a lot of energy, the coaches like them. You know, and it didn't, and I, I, we'd be kind of like, it doesn't make him a better player or worse player. He just has a lot of energy. He's a, he's an outgoing kid, you know, and or if a kid was kind of quiet and shy, it doesn't mean he's an energy vampire. Right? It's just your, but it's a first impression from the coaching staff. And it's kind of like the kids are so well coached up these days. To your point, Chris, it's hard to get a lot in out in 18 minutes. And we had a game plan for every kid that came in. So if a kid had an off-the-field issue, usually I would start the meeting and I would try to drill down on them a little bit. But the

kid tells the story to 32 teams over a period of six months, he gets pretty good at it, right? And he's been coached on how to do it before he even got there. If we think a corner isn't particularly tough on tape, but he's a long, gifted kid, but he's not, he doesn't tackle, he doesn't take on the guard pull, then we might have six plays pulled up ready to go when he walks in the room. And I would say, hey, I'm going to turn this over to my defense coordinator. You know, we want to know why you don't like to tackle. And you're trying to jar.

And you're not trying to be a dick. You're just trying to get the kid off his rhythm a little bit so you get some honest feedback. And now you can read him, though, yeah? Because now how he reacts to being off the script might tell you something. Yeah. And again, I'm not trying to be a dick and I'm not trying to throw a crazy, you know, do you like cats or dogs better? This is, this is football tape. Okay?

What I really want to hear from the kid is, well, you know, I just watch those six plays. You pick six plays at a 4,000, but did you watch me as a gunner? You want to see some toughness? Watch that. You know, I want to see when the kid gets his back up a little bit, how he responds. Does he crawl into himself and say, yeah, I can get better at that, you know, or does he kind of, you know, what is it? And so we had a game plan kind of drawn up for every kid based on, what we felt we had to drill down on a little bit more.

And here's how it's even more of a crapshoot, Mike, because you can see something in somebody's background like addiction, whether it's addictive personality or something else, and sometimes it turns bad, and sometimes it turns into Max Crosby. Max Crosby. Yep. And that's a really good example on a lot of levels,

because the league knew about Max drinking. There weren't any secret. So you watch this kid play with his hair on fire. Every freaking play was like the last play he was ever going to play. He was this kind of pasty, pale dude flying around the field, making play after play. Was he going to get bigger and stronger? Because he wasn't great against the run then. But I'll tell you what he could do, Chris, you'll get a kick out of this.

He could freaking bend. He could bend like Gumby. He could dip and bend and accelerate and he had these long arms, but it's a great question because where would he have gone if he didn't have an addiction problem? Right. And then the sequel to that is, and Max and I are very good friends. I was at his wedding last year and I love the kid. I love his wife, Rachel. The kid means a lot to me, okay, from where he's come from. And what's cool now is he's taking that addictive personality, which he used to channel towards drugs and alcohol. And he's now channeling it towards being a great father, a great husband, and a great football

player. And he's got goals in all three of those realms. And that's what drives them. And by the way, part of that is being a great teammate, which he is. He owns that locker room. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're black, white, green, yellow, offense, defense, Max Crosby is your guy. So he's channeled all that addiction into positive things. And he's only, what, 26 years old. I mean, the kids played five years in the league. He's 26. He wants to be a Hall of Famer, and he's on the way.

Yeah, he's on his way. The one thing I would say about Max is kind of a sidebar. If you were his GM now, would you be in APs here being like, hey, 80 snaps of games a little much? If we want this kid to last long enough that he is a Hall of Famer, because if he plays like this, his entire career, he's a Hall of Famer, but you and I both know Hall of Fame's about longevity, you know, and yeah, as a guy that I used to play 80 snaps a game, that shit catches up with you.

Caught up with me in a big way. I'm not saying it's going to happen to him, but do you think that's something in today's NFL, you've got to be more cognizant of because you love the spirit of wanting to be out there every play, but you've got to protect the player. I talked to him a little bit after, I think it was his second year in the league. He just used to come up my office and close the door, and we talk about, you know, just our lives.

You know, and sometimes football. And I told him at one point that, you know, I admire the fact that you're a warrior. And I admire the way you train to play 100% of the snaps. But over time, the way the game has evolved is that two things can happen when we substitute, that defensive line. You know, one is we keep everybody fresh, so in the fourth quarter, when you got to go get them, you can go. Our best players are on the field, on the most critical downs, playing at their highest level. And the second thing is, personally, you can play longer at a higher level. And if you look at the number of snaps around the league, Chris, you make an

amazing point. If you compare his snaps as a defensive end to any other starting defensive end in the league. It's not even close. No. I mean, it's off the chart. He's over 90% of the defensive snaps every week. And a lot of times, 100. Yeah. You know, and I was hoping that they would start to roll Malcolm Coons in earlier, like two years ago.

Yeah, because he's a talented edge rusher. And I thought, you know, they drafted the kid in the first round and they had Chandler Jones and he didn't get on the field. I felt like Malcolm could, used properly, could give Max a little bit of a arrest too and without too much of a drop off when Malcolm was fresh. Yeah, I hope they get them some I mean, I know from experience you want to be, it's almost like a point of pride. The challenge can be kind of motivating. It can kind of be something you get caught up in. So I totally get the spirit. But just as somebody sitting here at 38 years old who's been through it, I'm like, man, you could

take a break every now and again because you do start feeling it. How about, you know, getting off the Raider sidebar a little bit. Like with the, with the combine numbers, we talked about this. I think the last time you were on the show, like there are some numbers and testing that you guys are probably like, yeah, we take all that with a grain of salt. It's about the RAS. It's about kind of like putting it all together. But I was watching a DB back pedal and break drill yesterday and found out exactly how fast guys are going, how many miles an hour they get up to. you know, I'm pretty sure you can tell where in the drill you peaked at that, that point, and, you know, like acceleration, all that stuff.

Like GPS now, to me, I wonder if GPS is going to get to the point where it kind of makes the testing numbers obsolete. You know, like, I'm not saying obsolete obsolete, but where it's almost as important, the thing that no fans are really consuming, because we don't know that that's the thing to consume. We're all looking over here at the 40, but are people in buildings now looking at GPS, tracking just as much during the drills and out on the field. Great point. And I was watching the wide outs the other day. Okay?

Go through the gauntlet. Yeah. Okay? And everybody used to make fun of the gauntlet because you catch the ball and then the first thing you do with it is you throw away the most precious thing in a game, which is a football. But you catch it and you throw it away, you fumble it.

Why are you doing this drill? You know? And every year I try to explain to people that the key to it was that you couldn't weave. You had to stay on a straight line, and you had to run fast. You couldn't cheat the drill. Right.

Okay? And I thought Daniel Jeremiah did a great job the other day with the GPS equipment, showing examples of how guys, some guys accelerate through the drill. Other guys are just worried about their hands and where the next ball. And you can see it.

I could always tell when a guy accelerated and just plucked it and throw it. Like, I could tell easily, just visually. However, what the GPS has done, I'll give you two examples, Chris, to bring it home. Last year, Puka Nakua. Now we all know who he is, right? Puka runs like high four-fives in the 40.

Yet in this kind of throwaway gauntlet drill, he had the highest GPS. Okay? And you could watch him go through the drill. they showed a flashback. It was just like pluck, pluck, pluck, pluck, accelerate straight. It was easy. Like he grew, and, and

I get that. He's got natural, hey, boom, boom, go. This year, um, kid from Florida State, Keon Coleman, I think it was. He, he ran 4-6-1 in his 40. I did his tape. He's not a

4-6-1 guy. He's probably a four, he's a big body wide out. He's probably on the field. He runs 4-5, it looks like. Like, he's just a, He's a legit, height, weight, speed guy, and he's going to go in the first couple rounds, right? But he ran 4-6-1. Who do you think had the fastest GPS in the Gwantlin? Keon Coleman.

And he was flying, and it just plucked throw, plucked through, plucked through. It was easy. So to your point, Chris, even though I'm an old guy, I think information's good. I think technology used properly in context is good. And I really like the way the GPS helps kind of add another layer to these drills. Yeah, I feel like it's inevitable that at some point we look up and we're like, we can track every inch of movement that these guys are, you know, like finding comps, you're going to be able to be like, yo, that guy's GPS was exactly the same as Chandler Jones,

the way he moves, you know, the force, the whole thing. Like I'm thinking of a time where we can just plug it into a machine and we're like, that's that's von miller you know i i maybe i'm daydreaming but i i feel like at some point with gps we might be there mike uh chris and i went to virginia chris is very anti-robot paul tudor jones also went to virginia are you still in the ai space mike here i am i'm 65 years old i have trouble turning my laptop on literally like i don't have headphones You told him, you know, I'm supposed to wear headphones.

I don't have them. I'm the host. I got no mic, no headphones. I'm freaking, I don't even. I, I, I, what is this? Look at this room. Anyways, go ahead, Mark. My son sends me the, the little white things that you stick in your ear, like,

AirPods, pods, whatever they are, right? Like, my son constantly tries to get me into the world of technology. Yeah. But what's really funny, when it comes to football, like, if I think a certain thing, can help us do a better job, I'm all in. And that's why I think that the UVA grad, Paul Tudor Jones, is intriguing. And I mean, he started a company called Sumer Sports. And he's trying to drive AI into football in a big way from helping you on draft day,

assimilate so much, process, so much information you couldn't do it with the human brain. yet what they can do while you're on the clock is process a incredibly difficult trade using algorithms and spit out an answer in 20 seconds or less of whether or not it's a good trade for your team. And using the value of money, your salary cap. It's what they're trying to do is intriguing. And Thomas Dimitroff, the former GM, runs the football side of it. and they've hired scouts and GMs and people like me. And that's why I wrote 100 reports this year,

because at some point, it's great to have the algorithms and how intelligent these men are, which way beyond my comprehension. They're all, I'm amazed at what these guys can retain and what they do, but sooner or later you need a football grade, right? And to me that, so to answer your question making, yeah, I just feel like to Chris's point earlier, when you add that layer of the GPS

along with your football knowledge of what the drill is supposed to show, it just adds to it. You've got to have both, right? We're never just going to leave, you know, you're ever going to leave the Lucas Oil stadium to just robots. Like, there's got to be people in there.

Got to be people. By the way, Chris, that reminds me. Yeah. I had you at 483. Did you really? Yeah, but what I liked about you was, and again, I don't remember the, you jumped 34. I don't think you ever long jumped, even at your pro day. Did you?

I jumped 10-8. Now, what I did well is I had a 1-5-5-10-yard split. I was just going to say, your 10-yard and your two shuttles. It's a third or fourth best by a guy over 250 or something. I read that this year because. Yeah, your 10 and your shuttles were really good. And what that told me, I didn't really care about what you did yards 20 through 40 in your 40. What I cared about was the quickness and the twitch in a short area.

Yep. And you had that. And I think when you look at defensive linemen, I still do think 10 yards split, it seems obvious. But to me, that's a big one. And then I think there's probably something to that three cone drill when it comes to, you know, turning and sinking your, your leverage and all that stuff. But, you know, I think arm length is obviously huge. You know, going back and tracking these guys over the last couple of years,

the guys who have the best sack numbers in league. There's only a couple with arms under 33, you know, generally. And Trey Hendrickson is one of them. So I think, like, if you're going to be a short-armed guy, you've got to be a really quick area burst guy. And you've got to have good hips and you got to have good hands. But these guys, I would look at arm length. Dallas Turner is an example.

Dallas Turner lit it up, okay? I'm just going to say this. I'm still figuring out what kind of a pass rusher he is watching tape of him. It's not like, I don't think he's the best pass rusher in the draft. That's just me. But when you watch him test and you watch him run around, you're like, holy

shit. Now, the one thing I wanted to ask you about him is he's really high hips. Yeah. Okay. You know, like, when you look at a rusher with high hips or with a long torso, and to some people at home, they're like, what gives? There's a big difference. athletically in the skill sets that guy might bring to the table. How do you guys analyze that balance

between torso and leg length? There's a lot to that question, even when you bring in the Trey Hendrickson piece of it also. Power typically starts from the ground up. So you're trying to displace through your lower body, all this power. When you look at a Hendrickson or a Shaq Lawson or some of those guys with shorter arms that become effective pass rushers. Yeah. You got to be really careful because most of them don't make it at a high level. The ones that do typically make it because they have another trait that's elite. Explosion is usually the one.

Okay. And I use explosion in different ways. Again, you're exploding from the ground. Can you bend and explode? Do you have that inside, even if you're 32 and a half inch arm, do you have that inside arm that rocks people? Yep. You know, that you can place it and rock a 320 pound tackle.

And some of those guys have that. Hendrickson has that. Jack Lawson has that. So can you land, even though your arm's short, can you land that where it belongs and rock a guy? Timing. Timing. Timing.

Timing. timing, but I don't know that Trey has that if he doesn't have the poof, you know? That's what gives him the opportunity to put people in positions that are disadvantageous where he's like, okay, I hit the weak spot, you know, right there on that back, you know? Yeah, there was a guy back years ago. I'm trying to remember his name when I was first doing the NFL Network stuff and he had a lot of sacks in college. He was a short-armed guy and I got all excited about him. He was running around. He looked quick. And he had a very mean. mediocre at best career.

And I remember talking to a couple of Hall of Fame coaches later about it, saying I missed on this guy. I need to figure, I got to go back. And they were like, Mike, he wasn't explosive. He could get by with it in college. Yeah. But once he got up against Amarius Mims or Kyle Long, you know, two, six, you know, just, you got to do some things to displace those kinds of men.

Yes. Right? And it can be change a direction to get them off balance. It can be bend. It can be pure speed. It can be up and under. It can be long pole. It can be all those things.

But you've got to have something. Right? You can't just come off and with your 32 and a half inch arms and try to run the arc every snap. You can't do it. So, Chris, we could have that conversation, Chris, for like a day. Yeah. Because I love that conversation and there's so much that goes into it.

The hip thing, though, is that something you guys would never look at? Like, the guy's got really long legs? You know, like, is he, yeah, I can't think of a guy who's got really longer, lower half. Well, you brought up the... I just can't come up with one that would suit the example. No, that's okay. You brought up the kid from Alabama. Yeah.

Right? Dallas Turner. And, like, I look at him like I did when Brian Burns came out. That's the comp, right? in my head, I don't know if anybody you, but yeah, that's my comp for him. I didn't love Brian Burns. And part of it was my mistake, something I had to learn, which I got pissed off because I didn't think that he defended the run as well as he should have. I thought that, you know, physical guys got a hold of him pretty good. But what I think I lost in the translation a little bit as the game changed to a past first league over the last, you know, 20 year.

Like, who closes out the game in the fourth quarter for you? Yeah. It's Brian Burns. Yeah. Right? It's that kind of guy. And Dallas Turner's got to get stronger. He's got a lot to learn, but he's got some length, and he's got, and he's got the natural pass rush ability that Brian Burns had.

And that's why I think people are excited about him. The Florida State little Florida State kid ran a 4-7-something, the defensive tackle. Yeah, the transfer. The white guy. That's the only, that's the lead here. Another lead is we had a linebacker run a 4-4. Oh, oh, go ahead. And Ladd McConkey, fastest Irishman in the history of the Combine, 439.

Maybe the fastest Irishman in the history of Irishmen. You know what? When I was doing McConkey this fall, I knew. he was a walk-on. So I, or not a walk-on, but he got the last scholarship to Georgia. I was trying to figure out why. And I went back and I found some old footage on YouTube of him at like a high school camp shredding people, just shredding guys, right?

And all I'm seeing in my head is a bigger and maybe faster Hunter Renfro. Right. Right. He's got that kind of twitch and quickness and you're bringing up white guys and whatever. So in my head, Hunter Renfro, as good as it gets as far as that short area of quickness, understanding how to set a guy up and move. But you should have seen this kid, Ladd McConkey, at age 17,

shredding five-star guys. Yeah. And he didn't have, I don't think he had, he was going to go, I forget to what college, he was going to some non-division one school, and at the very end, Georgia offered him, and he's turned into Ladd-McConkey. That's crazy. That's crazy.

You know, I feel like we're kind of getting to this point where we see this almost every year, or maybe I'm losing track or it's like another fastest time. And like are guys getting faster or are they getting better at the drill? I think they're getting better at the drill. And like Xavier Worthy flies. Yeah. I did him this fall.

Like he's Deshawn Jackson fast. He's, you know, he's a lean track athlete. And I'm not saying he's a track guy. He's a football guy. But he's a lean. He ran 10, 5 in high school, 100 meter. I mean, He's legit, but the thing is, I'll give you an example of me.

I ran shitty 40s. I was a safety, right? But I was a baseball player. I was a high-level baseball player. I played at Boston College. So I never got in a three-point stance in my life until it was time to run a 40. I was a high school quarterback and a defensive back and a baseball player, not a track guy. So my fifth year at BC, I ended up training with the track team after football ended,

just because I knew I was going to have to run some. And so the same guy that ran like 4,7, 8 at my junior pro day, ran 4, 5, 6 for the Pittsburgh Steelers. And all I did was learn how to start the first five yards. Right. Right. So that's an oversimplified version of what's going on today at all these exos camps and everything around the country. Your guys are learning how to beat the drill. And to be honest with you, Chris, it doesn't bother Scouts.

What they want to see is your best. They want to see what they're capable of. Yeah. Because it's all relative. Yep. You know, and everybody else has the same opportunity to go to an exos camp and take the image of it and stuff in detail. A two-part Caleb Williams question, number one, like, do you get, do you get hung up on regression in a third year, whatever year was? I think it was junior.

People say, hey, the 22 tape, far and away better than the 23 tape, I think anybody watch college football knows that in some of the big spots, maybe not where you wanted him to be. I mean, he's still supremely talented in QB1. That's the way everybody's talking about him. Do you ever worry about regression? How do you handle that as a GM where you're like, I saw it? And then the second part of my question would be, do you feel the narrative shift? I mean, obviously, like, there's a narrative onslaught

that comes with certain guys, and it almost feels timed. You know, like, I know some of it he might have done to himself, but some of it feels like, hey, the media is just turning the dial. As a GM, is it hard to ride that wave and stick to what you know? First, regarding regression, I'm not sure I would agree that he regressed. I think he had a different team this year with less ability, and I think he pressed a little bit to try and make plays. I'll give you an example.

I think it was the Washington game. The first nine possessions of the game, USC scored seven touchdowns, and the score was tied 4242. And they lost 52, 42. And the people that say he regressed would say that he threw a key interception late in the game and blah, blah, blah.

I go through that tape, and I go with just about any other person playing quarterback, it's 52 to 14. Like this kid kept them in the game making plays nobody should have made. And at a certain point, when you're trying to throw guys open and when you're trying to make plays, are you going to make a mistake? Yeah, you're going to be more prone to mistakes. But this is what I tell you about the kid, whether it's 22 or 23.

His athletic ability is off the charts, and people are trying to focus on that. But I always get back to, okay, I love that. I love that you can get away from Chris Long or you can get away from, you're getting pressure, you can get away from some of these guys. You need that in today's league, but you also need a quarterback that can win inside the pocket. And this kid can win in the pocket. This kid's innate feel and movement skills as he slides and moves with his eyes up despite the rush is special.

And I think what you saw on 23 was maybe the O line wasn't as good, maybe the skill, maybe just his offensive team wasn't as good, and this kid was trying to be heroic. So there are a couple different ways to look at that. And the public narrative doesn't bother me in any way, shape, or you've got to decide in your building what you're looking for, and you've got to have the balls to say that's who we are, and that's who we want. Yeah, when it comes to Caleb and this Bears trade,

if you're the Bears and you know one way or another, right now, what are you taking into the consideration if you're like we know we're trading him like take me inside their war room as far as protecting that information yeah and playing the other side of it and then vice versa if you if you know that you are you know keeping just and fields which would be the yeah the less than likely outcome what are you considering right now well the beauty for them is that obviously with the first pick it changes everything because nobody can jump you right so you're dictating everything. As far as

trading Justin Fields, I see a lot of stuff out there about what's the best timing. Should they do it now before free agency, when teams need quarterbacks and there's a bunch of teams, will that maximize value?

Or would waiting to near the draft or during the draft maximize value? I can tell you from my experience, I had some calls on dark car. You know, Dark was getting better every year with John Gruden and that offensive staff, Greg Olson and our guys. Dark was really, I thought he got better each year. And in

21, we go to the playoffs. And he was a top 10 or 12 quarterback, no matter whether you like him or not. He was. And we were getting to the draft, and I'm getting phone calls on dark. And people are offering significant things. And the closer the draft got, the more a couple of GM were panicked about what's going to be left. There was nothing in free agency. I don't think I'm going to be able to get up high enough to get the guy I want. What's going to be left? Right?

So you can make a case, I think, either way. But I've always believed that if you control quality, if you control value, you're going to be fine with leverage. So I think there's going to be a market for fields if they want to move them. and I think that whether it's now or later, they're going to be fine. I don't think it matters all that much because they have the first pick. And they can be freely talking to any team, playing teams off against each other. There's leverage now, and I believe there's going to be leverage for them later.

Mike, two-parter involving Tom Cable, try to stick with me here. I got a phone call at 7 a.m. from Kyle Long today. and he said Chris is out of the country I'm trying to fill that void I'm giving you a call I said well you may have the week off but we're going to be in there at 11 a.m. talking to Mike Mayock and he said tell Mike Mayock

that all I wanted to be after retiring and coming back was a raider and that Tom Cable put me through a 30 minute workout nearly killed me and then said he didn't want me so that's part one part two is here Chris and I

went to a concert about 10 years ago. He introduced me to Rich Incognito. I put my hand out to shake his hand, and he grabbed me by the collar, pulled me in, ripped my shirt, and said, ah, good to meet you. It was the most intense physical salutation of my life. And then you have a story about Incognito pulling you off a Jersey Shore beach for a 60-second workout in Vegas, leaving your family for all a 60 seconds. Why does Rich Incognito get the 60-second workout, and Kyle Long have to dance around for 30 minutes. Oh, that's interesting. Megan, I'm really happy. You joined today. Thanks.

That's how I always feel. Frickin awesome, brother. Thank you for that question. You will not be invited to the Mayo Council for any Ocean City gala. Hey, you know who his friend is, Mike, is Marcus Hagan's. He's friends with Marcus Hagan's. He's friends with Marcus Higgins too. Oh, that's my guy. Love Marcus. Yeah.

Love Marcus. Take either part you want first, Mike. All right. So the incognito story is a simpler one. You don't get much time off in the NFL. I was in Ocean City, New Jersey, on the beach with my wife. And the phone rings, and it's Incognito's agent. And he's like, look, he's ready for his comeback.

And he's overcome all these problems. And he's an unconfineats. unbelievable shape and, you know, we, we, and this is July, you know, we're going to training camp in a couple weeks. And I'm, I'm just sitting, I got a red stripe in one hand and probably a cigar in the other. And I'm just could not be happier. And I'm like, okay, you know, when are we going to do this? And so I, I call Gruden, you know, in cable, and, and they're like, yeah, let's get him out here now. I'm like awesome. So of course we got him out there and cable had this square that he would set up for all his workouts and in the beginning of the and in this square you did

four different drills to complete this you know maybe it was 20 yards in each direction and some of it was like defensive backstock you know the first part of it you're running high high knees forward. the second part you're backpedaling, then you're doing karaoke, then you're doing, so he had four different things just to kind of see what kind of shape you were in, what kind of hips you had, your feet, and I kind of like that. I thought that was good, you know. You get to see big guys do some awkward things right away. And so incognito is, he comes out and he was 30 some years old. He looked like he was about 21. He's got this boyish face, you know, he's clean cut, he's in great shape. you know, he's 320 some pounds.

There's not an ounce of fat on him. And he does the square the first time. And cable looks at me and Gruden. And he goes like this. Seen enough. Right? Gruden looks at me. He's like, yeah, I'm good.

And I'm like, okay. He's a former, he's a former all pro. He looks like Adonis. I flew five hours out here to see him work out for, 22 seconds. I'm in. So we signed them. Now, Megan, thank you very much for the segue to the second part of this. People know how I'm very good friends with the Long family. One of my favorite people in the entire world is Howie Long. And one of my next favorite people is his wife, Diane Long. And I've seen the Long kids grow up. And so my affinity

and belief in the long family is as strong or stout as anybody in the world. So Kyle wants to come back. Awesome. I'm all in. I don't need to see him work out. Matter of fact, I didn't need 22 seconds. I didn't need any seconds.

I just wanted to sign him, right? But we're going to bring him in and he's going to work out. And just a, I think what you have to understand the background of this is that coaches have their favorite players, that they've coached in the past. And with that, they have comfort levels, right? Guys that have been in their system, guys that have played for them, guys they want to sign because of that. And I don't always see that agenda until a certain point. Okay. So basically, it was all set to bring Chris in. We took him out to dinner the night before. He was going to do, in my mind, a quick workout the next day, and we were going to

sign him. We had the space. I knew how we were going to get the space, and Grewden was on board, and we were ready to go. And the next day, you know, he came out, and I thought he had a really good workout, and he worked, to Kyle's point, it was a solid 30 minutes. It wasn't 22 seconds, and Kyle was, what, 31 years old, maybe, Chris, I want to say? He had to be, yeah, 31. You know, so he was in great shape. He was ready to go. And I was, like, I wanted to go like this the minute he walked in the door.

Let's just have a beer and sign him. Let's go. And so we go through this whole workout. And really, I think, to be fair to the coaching side of this, you know, I was ready. And this is hard for me because I felt like my word was out there with the long family. okay and and Chris held up his end of the bargain and Chris went into shower and a conversation ensued and there was another offensive lineman available out there that our coaches had a comfort level with this is the first time and I obviously knew he's out there but this is the first I'm hearing that

they want to sign them ahead of Kyle and Kyle's showering in our locker room so I mean that's a long way of saying that I understand how coaches think. I'm a coach's son. They wanted, you know, and again, this is not a shot at Tom Cable. Tom had a guy out there. He wanted to try and sign, a veteran O'Lyman that played for him, had gone to war for him. But I felt very strongly about Kyle, obviously, for all the reason. I thought he would help our team. He'd be a veteran leader. I thought he was to end up starting for us. There was no way in my head, Kyle wasn't going to start for us. So I think Tom hates Kyle's brother. Really?

From our days in St. Louis in Seattle. Maybe it had something to do with that. Well, and again, I'm not taking any shots of Tom other than... I like John. I don't know him like him. Here's the problem, but here's the problem I had is if that's the way we were going, we shouldn't have brought Chris in and put him through that. And I was embarrassed and upset.

And it was even further embellished when his next stop was Kansas City. Right. And they didn't even work them out. Andy Reed just shook his hand and said, welcome, brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so making, you're kind of a dick for asking that question. Yeah, it's a good one to leave Mike on, you asshole. Yeah, I'm really happy you brought that out because I'm going to get a few phone calls after this.

From dad and from Tom Cable. That was Kyle submission to the show. Well, I love to tell Kyle, I love him, and I'm still sorry. I literally had to go to a pro day. I had to fly from there from our workout with Kyle. I think I was going to Georgia, and I was late getting to the airport, and I gave Kyle a big hug. I was almost in tears.

I was so upset. I called your dad, because I had to tell your dad what happened. And I was just, you know, your dad, thank God, knows me and knew. He knows the business. He wasn't going to get on me. But I felt like the biggest dick in the world that day. Yeah, Kyle's okay. I mean, fuck, happens to all types of players.

No, Kyle. You can fly out for a fucking workout and then couldn't sign with the team. No, cry me a river, Kyle. Well, trust me, I cried a river over that. I know you did, because you're a good guy. Mike Mayock, everybody, I appreciate you coming on. We got to get you back on more and love the stories, man. Just really appreciate your insight.

And I appreciate you, Chris. And the next time, making better be in the background somewhere off camera. That's where we're working on. Put them. Hey, y'all, Green Light has official merch, like this hat right here, like the one on my head, this dad hat.

Love this hat. I'm not even a dad. hat guy but this thing fits great this this hat right here fits great we've got hoodies we've got tea by the way this hoodie's like super comfy I mean it's like soft plush it's not the type of hoodie it's going to get stiff with one wash and the shirts too because like I'm a big comfort guy okay you got like this white shirt here you got the shirt with the logo the abbey road looking logo with Dr. Fax smoking presumably a blunt, Kyle carrying Cowboy Reed, making driveling a basketball, which I've never seen him actually do,

and me carrying a football. And then you've got the black shirt here too with the logo. So stickers, hit the link in the description in the video, below the video, actually, and make sure to tag us on social media showing off your greenlight merch. It's quality, quality threads here, okay? Wouldn't do it any other way. Mike, you really hit Mike Mayock with a hard ball there at the end of the interview. That was roofless, dog.

It was like a backdoor layup, though, because he got to say how much he loves you guys, your family, and how badly he wanted to sign Kyle. And so it all works out. Mike comes out looking like Golden. I'm the one who looks like a jerk. Mike's great. Love Mike.

There's stories of Mike showing my dad. to BC back in the day when my dad was on an official visit up at BC. Mike was his guy. And my dad might have been a BC teammate of Mike's if it weren't for the fact that they wanted him to play guard, which was quite possibly the most interesting strategy ever. Going that he puked beer on his visit at a poker table. That too. Yeah, there was a time when my dad used to throw him back. That's a green flag. Green flag, right? Green flag. Green flag.

I like that this thing, green flag is finally catching on, guys. We need to come up with some green flags for players. I'll give you one green flag. Chop Robinson transferred from Maryland. Yeah, that's just knowing not to go down with a sinking ship, you know? Good awareness. Maryland sucks. Get him out of there.

We're going to talk about Eddressers in a second, but to tell you guys where I am, since we didn't do it in the open, I am in the Bahamas. and I got here yesterday and I'm on vacation and there's a water slide here and I want to go to the water slides so we're not going to take all day here to talk about the edge rushers. But there is a lot to talk about because I really like these guys. I like these guys too. It's a good group, Chris. Look, I got pages and pages of notes.

You see this shit? Oh, man. I've been working hard. I need a vacation too, Chris. Bring me on the water slide. Bro, I hate to tell you this, but you're like to. life is a vacation you know my life my life is a movie that's the thing you don't understand bro you live weights yep you live in florida yeah you have no kids you're a don't forget pickle ball athlete

you play pickle ball you have like scooter yeah like your life is a fucking vacation so i don't want to hear about a vacation no water slides though because they're really in that department yeah but if my wife was like hey listen this beautiful stay in the bahamas at this exclusive resort that we planned for three months. Chris, would you rather be Bo for a weekend in Tampa or stay here the next three days? I think I might be Bo in Tampa for a couple of days. Chris, if you ever want to come down to beautiful Tampa, Florida and cosplay as the Butter King, you let me know.

We can make that happen. I might do it. I might do it. Okay. So anyways, the guys that were sent over, I'll just say this. Like, it does feel like to me, Bo, that this group, it's like when you're go to the toy store and you can't decide. There's a lot of different body types. There's a lot of different players that I really like their games and that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll

translate or vice versa. But where do we start? Well here, I wanted to run this thought by you real quick. Chris, as an edge guy, so I'm watching these dudes in the, you know, these dudes in the upcoming draft, the edge guys, we lost him. He went to the water slide. Oh, he's back. I thought it was very interesting because there's a lot of really good tandem rushers. Okay. So from Bama, you have Dallas Turner and Braswell from Penn State. You have Chop Robinson and Isaac. From UCLA, you have Latu and a starter dude, Gabriel Murphy, who I'm probably, I'm probably not going to get into Murphy as much.

But I just think it's so interesting because how nice is it as an edge rusher when you're on one side and you have, you know, you have a fucking dog lined up on the other side, too, and he might flush the quarterback to you. So honestly, I just want to say this, more often than not, that guy will steal sacks from you. it's really not, I think it's better to have an interior. I know you're thinking of Robert Quinn in your mind right now. Yes. I think it's better to have an interior rusher.

Because like, personally, like, now, if you have another guy on the other side, it's not a bad thing, okay? But if the guy's good enough, he's actually going to speed the clock up so the ball is going to get out in a way that you actually can't get there. And then additionally, like, there were so many Robert Quinn sacks where I was like, oh, I'm here too. Yeah. You just try to dive on it late and get half a side.

You know, like a quarter second after him. Oh, I'm here too. And we're not even talking about a quarter second. We're talking about like an eighth of a second, dude. Or just, just that's the difference in getting home. So I think in college it probably helps, but I think more than anything having a guy playing in a three technique right next to you that can play. Like at the end of my career, having Fletcher Cox and Bo Allen inside.

had something caught in my throat after I said that I don't know it was bullshit but I just Fletcher and you know the guys we had inside in general but like it just you get so many more freebies if you understand how to rush having a guy inside is great

now if you have a really good guy on the other side of you that's not going to be a bad thing either they're going to have to double chip they might have to decide to chip him you know that sort of thing but I think more than anything it's playing off a guy that's inside. So I look at these guys and say, hey, if there's a guy that's got a guy inside of him,

that's the straw that stirs the drink. Perfect segue, Chris. Let me talk about number 55, Braden Fisk a little bit. He had an unbelievable combine performance last week. I did a butter breakdown on him that's going to get released. But he's a white tee tackle. I love white T tackles. But he's also super athletic.

He actually put up combine numbers comparable to Aaron Donald. And he played inside of number five, Jaredverse, who I love, at FSU and he tested really, really well. The thing I like about the thing I like most about Verse is he is like, there's a lot of twitchy guys, edge guys stand up outside linebacker types. But I see Verse as he's like a very, very powerful rusher, man. His speed to power rushes are fucking awesome. So I see the, I see Versus as like a four three, four down rusher.

But it's kind of like what you were saying earlier. Like you're looking at all these guys and I'm trying to think of like scheme that they would fit in. and they can all kind of play all over. But like Verst, dude, he tested so well at the Combine, too. Like he ran a 4-5-8, he had a 35-inch vert, 10-7 broad. But he runs games really well. And one of the games I was watching, I think it was Florida State versus Louisville.

Him and Braden Fiske ran this E.T. game. And Verst came in so hard and literally just knocked the guard straight on his ass and then Fisk wrapped around for the sack. So I really like Versx. I think he's, him and Dallas Turner are kind of the two top guys, but there's like, there's a lot of talent in this edge group. I think verse would actually fit in really well. Where to like, like, I'm trying to think where I would like. If you're asking me Turner or Verse right off the bat, it's verse.

Yeah, I like, I just like the way he plays. He plays physical and hard as shit. I think Dallas Turner is a better twitchier athlete. Yes. If you, if you could find a play, like, listen, I'm still, I'm early in film study. You've studied more film than me on these guys, but like initially there was nothing about Dallas Turner as like a pure pass rusher that I was like, okay, this guy is like the the rusher in this group. Now, he might end up being the best one because everybody knows if a guy figures out how to translate those tools that he has physically in the next level, he could be a Hall of Famer, right? But I also like just see him running in the open field, tracking plays backside.

side, like, that's so much of what makes a guy, quote, unquote, special. It's finishing ability, rallying to the ball. You know, sometimes the best rushers don't get the most credit because they don't finish well or they don't make those splash plays. This Dallas Turner is like a football player. Like with that athleticism. Now, verse, the thing I like about him is he's not as high-hipped as like, you know, Dallas Turner, which I actually like that.

And then you want to talk about hip height? How about the detackle from Florida State that you mentioned? His fucking legs are about yay long. Yeah. Dude, he's a freak athlete. He is a freak athlete. It doesn't look like it. If you put him in a lineup and you're like, who is this fucking dude that works in the-

Mechanic. Sonoco down the street. Exactly, dude. Yeah, and you know what? Let me just come out and say this. It's because he's white. I know. I can say that, bro.

I'm a white detackle, so I can say that. And he has short arms and all that. stuff, but I'll just say this about Jared Verst. I mean, hey, for a guy who can play with leverage and power like that and has a one-six, 10-yard split, which is, as I was just talking about with Mike Mayock, huge number to look at. Yeah, get-off ability. If you can get off the ball and put people in situations where they're out of control and you have that arm length and power, you know. You can reach and get to a O-Tackle and knock his hands down while you're flying up the field before he can punch you.

It's like a sped up sucks. Yeah, I actually kind of, I don't like to do the whole NFL comparison thing, but we all do it. I kind of like, I think he's a lot like Calumac a little bit. Just the physical speed of power rushes. I'd love to see him in a lion's defense. I don't know if he's going to make it there. I think, make it, I think your boy, Daniel Jeremiah had him going to the Bears at like nine, I think. Yeah, their second first round pick.

Yeah. At this position, do you guys care at all about age? Obviously, it matters more in the NBA or maybe different positions in the NFL, but verse is almost two and a half years older than Dallas Turner. See, I do. I do care about that because I look at a lot of things through like framing the way I look at myself. You know, like I was 22, 23. I was 23 when I got drafted.

If I was 21 and had a little bit more time to develop, you know, injuries, and that sort of thing, notwithstanding, I think my career would gone even better because, you know, just there's your RAR, you've built less habits. Like, from the time I was 21 to the time I was 23, I was playing at 3-4. So, like, those are really formative years in your muscle memory. Like, I don't know what habits this kid's picked up or hasn't picked up. I do think younger is better. I really do. I just, I tend to think ball of clay, dude.

Yep, I agree with you there. Chris, speaking of young and talking about rar, rar. Raw players, as you said, Jonah Ellis from Utah. He is 20 years old, which is kind of incredible when you think about it. And he's another, I think he's going to end up being a day two guy. But he's a guy that's thought of pretty highly because he had 13 sacks. And like, he didn't even play a full season last year for Utah. Also war number 83, which I thought is kind of incredible for a default.

Yeah, actually a dope, edge player. Dube uniform, dope number. But he is a very raw player. And he's kind of like, you know, he's 6-2, 24. But he's got like some really good abilities. Like he has this counter spin rush that you don't really see a ton at the college level because it's a pretty like to hit a counterspin like that like is a feasts or famine move. You know.

Yeah, you got to be afraid. Right. And he had 13 sacks and limited playing time. He comes from a football family though. And, you know, I don't know how much stock we put in coming from a football family on this podcast for us long. Well, I'm sure whatever he does, people like you will hate on him. that you were slighted because you're bad, not famous. Kind of set myself up for that one.

But he's a good player. Like he's going to be, I think he'll be like a 3-4 stand-up outside linebacker. He could be like a 4-3 Sam almost and then rush on like rush downs. But he's kind of a guy that I'm very interested to see where teams land. I think he's maybe flying a little bit under the radar because of his injury. Let me ask you this, because you were just talking about verse, 254, 24. 55. Same thing with Chop Robinson.

But for some reason, Chop Robinson, and I love this guy's game. Yeah. Like, so much respect for the way this kid plays. And now here I'm not about to bury him. I just say, like, his frame kind of in a weird way. Like, you watch him run. He's built like the Hulk.

But when you see him on the field, like, he doesn't look like a big guy. Now, I looked at his measurements. There's nothing in here too disconcerting, even from an arm length standpoint. 32.5. I have for him. Yeah, not like, not freakishly small or anything.

I don't know if it was the number or the way he wears his pads, but I'm kind of like... I think he had those rounded small, like, shoulder pads like your boy Mike wore forever. I feel like his pat, like he didn't look that big in pads, but bro, he tested through the fucking roof at the combine. You ran 4-4-8-4-8-1-5-14-1-1-14.

10 yard, which is 5 inch for a 108 broad jump, a 425 short shuttle. Like, dude, and he is twitchy as shit. I don't, for whatever reason, though, I see him as more of a 4-3 defensive end and not a stand-up outside linebacker. But I think he could like, kind of what you're saying, Chris, I think he could fill out his frame a little bit more. But what's crazy to me is like talking about young players and all that. Like, I think he's a little bit younger.

He only did three years, right? Because he was two at Maryland, transfer to Penn State. talked about that being a green flag but he's like almost like a little bit of a developmental player in a way like his game isn't as refined some of his rushes you know how like you kind of have a rush plan Chris where you know yourself as a rusher you know what moves you like and you know the counters off of them I think that he can really grow as a player in that way but like dude he is such a freak like I think him to go to the Texans I think I can't remember I saw a mock with that but like I was thinking about that Demico Ryan's that's that's

basically like that wide nine scheme that we played in Philly. Like that would be such a fun, fun, you know, scheme for him. Well, they might use Grinard. I mean, like, you know, you think about what he did with 12 and a half sacks this year. And I think he's a free agent. Here's the one thing I want to clear up. Marcus Mosher on Twitter, this is February 29th. A tweet was one, five, four, 10-yard split for Chop Robinson,

fastest ever for an edge over 250 pounds. Sorry, do I not agree? exist. Oh, you got the receipts, Chris. Your boy ran a 153 at 272. Now, the difference between me and Chop Robinson is chop Robinson ran a 4-4-8 and I ran a 478. Hey, Chris, guess what my 10-yard split was. This is why it's great to have a podcast. Guess what my 10-yard split was? What? At 329 at Pro-Day, Wisconsin Pro Day. 1-7. 165, baby. Ooh, really good. It's kind of burning. I'm not going to lie. No, it is burning. This is your floor. No, but all I'm saying is I'm not even the fastest.

Montes Sweat or somebody else was like a 1-5. And by the way, Montes Sweat had like his arm length is like 36 or something. Incredible. Okay, so Marcus Mosher, I wanted to point that out. There was a time where I was pretty twitchy. But this guy's Twitch, coupled with the fact that he looks like he can play with power based on his leverage. Yeah. The thing I worry about is just traffic, like him holding.

up in traffic, taking you on a double team, like tight ends are bigger, you know, tackles, guards, the whole thing. But there's really no hard evidence to say he's too small. Now, you know, like measurement-wise. Now, if you look at tape, you can draw whatever conclusions you want. I think the guy is a lot of fun to watch. Here's a weird question I have about him. Is he like a rare hip turner?

A lot of what he does, he's in, he's out, he's, you know, he's, you know, he's a weird question. When he wins on the edge. You're talking about the bend at the top of the rush with the hip flip and being so low to the ground. And you might say, hey, Chris, he's crazy, quick, you're fucking crazy. But you're not talking, you're not speaking the same language I am. And I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm saying there's a difference between being twitchy as fucking winning on the edge and winning at the top of the rush because all of a sudden the guys are really big and faster than all those guys in the big 10.

Like there's a lot of rushes, and I know this from experience, because when I was a rusher, my rookie year, I had to learn how to turn the edge a little bit more effectively. I was winning a lot of rush than college based on studying, get off, you know, timing the snap and the quality of tackle in the ACC. So, you know, I kind of wonder like, hey, when the physicality and the quickness to get to that apex of the rush, like, is a little bit more in tune with the NFL. Is he going to have that bend? Yeah, you know, I think that's a fair point, Chris. I think that's a little bit why I was saying he's raw and he can grow as a player. He hasn't had to really do that because he's so explosive. It's a question mark.

It's not a big question mark. I love his game. You got to take a guess, though, who my favorite guy is. Layatu Latu? Yeah, he's smooth, bro. Smooth. He's so fun to watch. I'm not saying that he's going to be great because

he's got a funny body type. Honestly, like sometimes... It's kind of a bad body a little bit. You know what I mean? Here's what's funny. In a good way. Here's what's funny. I called my dad last night

and he knows I've been watching a little combine stuff and just some college players. And I go, and the first thing I said was that kid from UC, and he goes, UCLA. Smooth. And he's like, he's like, I know.

Like, he loves the guy, I love the guy. I go, I love him too. Now, you're not going to like this. Uh-oh. I go, you know who he reminds me of? And I have somebody in mine. And he goes, he goes, honestly, when you came out a little bit of you. And I think he's lighter and more fluid than me.

I think he's a lot lighter. I've seen the comp before. There was somebody online that was doing these comps. And I was like, I've never seen the kid play. And I was like, hey, fuck you, man. This kid's not supposed to. be a and then and then I looked at his tape and it's a compliment because he's got so many moves and I think that's like he's a very mature rusher as far as like his everything is inside out everything

is lateral quickness it's setting things up it's chopping it's getting to a lot bro but the where he separates I think from a guy like me is I think he's so quick at once he wins the rush his feet are in fast forward and he's like magnetic getting the quarterback so he's a good finisher and I think that's half the battle that we often leave off the table like Chop Robinson I saw him falling

off of a lot of sacks because he's quick he's athletic he's explosive he's back there but he's also forceful and his arms aren't terribly long and he might not have great strength where you can hang on when you're getting you know kind of slingshot it around a quarterback

this kid this kid latu he's got that max crosbie twitch when he wins you know what i mean like it's like halfway through the rush there's the quickness getting off but then there's the quickness once you win and i i don't know how he's gonna i think medical is a big question mark for him yeah he's got a neck injury that i think is kind of scaring some people but like that wouldn't scare me man because this guy plays hard as fuck too i like his game dude yeah i like this kid's game a lot he's so fun to watch he's so slippery but he attacks o line in like the o lineman in such a variety of ways if you're an o lineman in the film room getting ready for him like a college o'lignment and you're watching this guy like you got to be just quaking in your boots man you got four or five moves

he's so slippery though too yep and he's bendy at the top i want to like i want to know where you think so i see him as like a three four stand-up outside linebacker i would love to see him in new england i think that they would figure out a way to use all of his town in his past rushing ability. So I had him, I think he'd be good in the Titan scheme too. Yeah. And then I think I saw a mock where he went to the Rams. And him playing with Aaron Donald would be awesome.

So that's kind of what I was saying. I think he'll be off the board pretty fast in the first round, barring some sort of, you know, the medical issue that we discussed a little bit. But like he was my favorite player to watch. He's nasty, dude. For the record, he actually, you know, I just wanted, that was what my dad said. he reminded me a T.J. Watt a little bit. Yeah. Well, so I played with Shaq Barrett in 2019 for the Bucks. I think

Shaq had like 18 sacks. I'd have to look it up, but he had so many sacks that year. And I love Shaq. Like, I've known him for a long time. We played at the East West Shrine game coming out of college together. And he like, like, not a great body. You know what I mean? But like so flexible in his torso. And like not over encumbered by muscle mass kind of like that sounds weird to say, but where you can like bend at the top of the rush, you know what I mean, and like reach with that outside arm to get the ball out. And so he has some moves kind of like that that reminds me. But you nailed it, man.

He has a really mature rush. Like he, he like has a plan and he knows himself as a rusher, which I think is really cool to see that coming out of college. Because a lot of guys, like we were saying with Chop Robinson, just went off of just freak athletic ability, being, you know, faster, stronger, more explosive than their opponents. But like he hits moves that will work in the NFL, which is cool.

see it. I think Chop has a plan now. I'm not saying he's just rolling it out there. Right. But this kid is a technician here down at UCLA. And by the way, Macon, you know, going back and watching a little bit of that Colorado game, those UCLA get-ups. I'm just watching Latu. There's like, they scroll through like seven images on his page on UCLA Bruins.com. They're all gorgeous. They really are. PFS. Chris Collins wore a shop. You all know it. I heard of it.

Every time I watch national TV, I find out how great or bad each player on the field is because some people graded it. Well, the good folks over there have done a post-combine mock. 8 to Atlanta, Jared Verse, 12 to Denver, Laiatulatu, 14 to New Orleans, Dallas Turner. And then two other guys we've talked about. 17 to Jacksonville, Byron Murphy, 23 to Houston, Jerson Newton.

So I kind of like these rushers as much as I like that that Hutchinson, Tibado Walker here. Like, like I really do. I think this group to me from a natural rush standpoint, like guys who just win a lot. I really like this group. So it's going to be hard. And another thing about Dallas Turner is he ran that 447 totally fucking slew-footed. Slew-footed. Like the difference between being pigeon-toed, like it's the opposite of being pigeon-toed.

Slee footed. His toes are basically pointed three-quarters out, you know, like, which is just a very interesting athletic thing to look at is when you watch these guys run their 40s, when you watch, and I'm talking about the oncoming angle. Right. Which is really interesting to me to watch because, like, Chop Robinson, his body is built completely different than Dallas Turner. You know, he's got that like he-man kind of like,

like he's riding a horse, but he's running because he's just built so, he's built so angularly. And then Dallas Turner's totally different looking and was weaving running that 4-4-7. He wasn't even running in a straight line. That's the shortest distance between two paths making. We all know that. Somebody should have said something about it. Hey, Chris, maybe this 2020, 2021 draft is a good comp,

because a lot of these guys were middle of the first, been really good. Jalen Phillips, Quitty Pay, Greg Russo, Oway and Baltimore. All those guys are middle-late first. That didn't have the pop of the Hutchinson-Tibodeau group. Now, Phillips is a guy that popped in my head a little bit, and I tried to ignore the 15 thing, looking at Lott, too, because I think Phillips is a little bit more explosive and talented physically. But I just, I don't know, the upside of this group seems really good to me. And I know that some of these guys might not get picked in the top 10, but there is a Hall of Famer in here, maybe.

I agree with that. Like, I just, I don't know if it's Jared Verst or I don't know if it's, I don't know if Lattu's going to be a household name, but like one of these guys, I feel like will be a household name. Marshall Neeland. Speaking of names, that's a low-key one, yeah. I know you guys didn't want to do, you guys aren't really into, you know, favorite combine names, but I took a stab at a couple of them.

I tried to make him to go it last night. He's like, I hate doing this. How about the opposite of what I said? How about Ennis Rake Straw? Oh, yeah. Corner, Missouri. I might take him at 6th at New York. He can do both.

Love Enix Rays Straw. Yeah, he can. You want to know my favorite player of this draft? Frank Crum. Don't know Frank's where. Frank. Oh, you've got to look up Frank Crum. He's only a 6-foot-8 white guy from Wyoming that ran a 5.

five flat. He looks exactly like, you telling me, look up Frank Crumman, tell me you wouldn't shadow him on campus if you could do it all over again and just see how that. I mean, Leatu Latu's a fucking hell of a name. Let's, I mean, we're on an edge day, but dude, Amarius Mims? Like, bro.

Jeremy Flacks? The guy's name is Flacks. You know, slow Flacks moves through your digestive track? He ran like a 5'4. He's become a household name, so it's not as cool, but the guy is literally Klaid. Kool-Aid McKin-Koot. But that's low-hanging fruit.

I think, you know, I was expecting some deeper cuts out of you. Well, I'm doing this by position group, and you guys just totally cucked my whole bit. Well, no, we don't have to do it anyways. But I'll just say this. I'm going to tell you something. There's just, I look at Laitu-Latu at the podium. I look at him doing an interview. I just look at the guy's face.

I trust him. Agreed. He's just got a trustworthy face, man. Like, this is a guy that I feel like could be great. Once again, intangibles, Chris. Intangibles. You know, that's just a vibe, but I just, the guy, the guy seems like he could be great. Is there any other edge guys you wanted to talk about? I can buzz through a couple of them.

Chris Braswell from Alabama is also really good. I think he'll be a 3-4 guy. He ran well, he's athletic. Three-four stand-up outside linebacker. I think he'd fit him well with the dolphins maybe. But he had kind of limited playing time in his first couple years. He's buried behind some good fucking players. and Dallas Turner and the fucking Will Anderson.

So he had a really good 2023. He was very productive. He had a pick. He had sacks. He had a block punt. Those returned for a touchdown. I think he's more a developmental guy. But he's really good.

Brayland Trice is another name that a lot of people are buzzing about. I think he's probably a day two guy, maybe third rounder. He's from Washington. I love his effort. He plays hard as hell. He's also really good at pass rush games. So he was fun to watch on like the Sugar Bowl. had a good showing in 2023. He plays hard. I think he's a better run defender than a lot of

these other edge guys. I'm trying to think of a good comp for him. I also thought he'd fit in well with the lines. I see him as more of a four-three, you know, hand in the ground, defensive end. And then I wanted to give this dude, Javon Solomon from Troy a shout-out. He had 18 sacks last year. I mean, he's, you know, he plays for Troy, but he led the nation's sacks, and he had some really pure rushers. I didn't watch a ton of his tape, but I watched enough where I kind of wanted to, you know, just give him a little bit of love on our edge day. And then I talked about Darius Robinson last week. He, I think he's going to be an interior guy, but he tested well at the combine. He ran a 495, but he had a 173 10-yard, 35-inch vert. He was 6-5-285 at, you know, weigh-ins and stuff like that.

I really think that he's going to be an interior guy or else maybe like a, you know, a 5 technique and a 3-4 scheme. But he's a versatile player. Speaking of, I want to make sure I get this dude's name right. I didn't watch as much of his tape, but this dude number three from Oregon Ducks, I think he's Brandon Dorliss or something like that. Doorless, yep. Yeah, he's also really twitchy. He's another tweener.

So, you know, similar to Darius Robinson, like, he played a lot on the edge for the ducks. But also, like, you know, in their nickel packages, third down, blah, blah, blah, like had some really, really good rushes as a three technique. He ran a 4-8-5 with a 16-8-10 and 9-3 broad jump. You know, he's a 31-inch vert. Like, he's a very explosive player. He's versatile. I think he could be another mid-round guy.

It's like these guys that are tweeners, like kind of didn't talk about him, you know, last week. So I want to give him a little bit of love today because they played on the edge. But I think both of those dudes, Robinson and Dorillus could both, you know, I think they could kind of play in a variety of positions or along the front seven, even in the NFL. which speaks to their athletic ability. Those are two pretty players. If Javon Solomon had a famous dad, he's definitely getting picked in the top five, right? 100%, dude.

Oh, wait, what happened to Ellis kid? Ellis. Oh, actually. Utah, Young. I watched not as much of his tape because he had that injury, his shoulder injury. I was being a dick. There's no real analysis needed.

Oh, I got analysis for you, but I got pages and pages of notes. I come prepared. baby but yeah i mean his dad wasn't a hall of famer but he's pretty good yeah so they got to take that in account exactly yeah uh we only we only draft guys that whose kids we only we only draft kids whose dads were dominant an era of 270 pound tackles yeah okay um all right so so the last thing for me is i went through the last you know the i was just looking at measurements wad hendrickson allen Hunter, Crosby, Garrett, Parsons,

sweat, like some of the guys are the leading sack artists right now in the league. You know, not a lot of them ran in the four-fours or four-fives. I'm not saying, you know, it's a bad thing to run it in the four-fives. Like, a lot of these guys are running in the four-six. You know, I think one thing you see that really matters, and I talked about this, I really believe in broad jump as a, you know,

as kind of like an identifier explosion. Can you tell me why? Because I think I know why. I just want to hear if it's... Triple extension. Yeah, getting out of your hips. Yeah, it's triple extension of your hips. By the way, a guy ran to jump to 12 this week at the combine, like a B.B.

Or something. Yeah. Safety jump like 12, 12. It was hilarious to me watching. Like his legs didn't swing through until nine feet. Some guys are jumping nine feet. He's at the highest peak of his jump at nine feet. Michael Jordan Space Jam can just dunk from the three point line.

Here are two things that really stood out. Micah Parsons has an 11-inch hand. Okay? That is massive, dude. And poor Josh Allen, who's a freaking stud, I'd look the other way if he was walking down the street next to me. I mean, just, he's an avatar. He's got eight and three-quarter inch hands.

Wow. But when you look at arm length, it makes a lot of sense. Micah Parsons, by the way, only 31-5-inch arms. His explosiveness, we talked about this with Mike. Mag. If you're not going to have long arms, you've got to have something else. Like another guy who had shorter arms, Hendrickson at 32, I know how that is. He's got something that's different. He's got like that quick sub 1-6, 10-yard split. He's very technical, the whole thing. But like a Miles Garrett with 35 and a quarter arms. A Montez sweat with 35 and three-quarter arms.

okay I love looking at arm length man Hunter 34 and a half if I had a combine bow and I know you might agree with me this is my parting shot I might and I could only measure a couple things

I'm looking at I'll probably pick one of the explosive exercises I want to look at arm length I want to look at a 10 yard split you know like it's kind of all in the same but arm length is super important to me 10-yard split time and then some metric of explosion because 10-yard split is quickness

to me. Yeah. That 10-8, 11-foot broad jump, what that says to me is you can generate power. Right. I'm trying to think because I didn't go to the combine. I'm still butt-heard about it over 10 years later because I would have tested well. But I did like nine top 30 visits or whatever and each team kind of had their own little metrics like that.

I'm trying to think because Chip Kelly, they had one in Philly when I went in for the pre-draft visit, and it was a weird one. They, like, would measure your quad size compared to your knee. Nope. Oh. Compared to your knee. Gotta be disappointed. Circumference. You know what I'm saying?

And I thought it was really interesting. It had something to do with, like, your ability to not have knee injuries or, like, you know what I mean? Oh, that's interesting. So I'm going to have to look that up a little bit. I want to see the reasoning behind that, but we went in depth about it on my pre-draft visit, and I've always kind of wondered about that, me curious. Ankle flexion. Dorsal flexion is huge, too.

No one reads about, and I've said it 100 times a year, every year. But they should be publicizing. If you're going to do 40 times, we should be absolutely looking at the ankle flexion of that. I was in Jim Harbaugh, or John, sorry, I was in John Harbaugh's office for another pre-draft visit. And he had me fucking on the ground in his office doing like hip exercises, like fire hydrants, bending over, like touching my toes, putting my palms on the ground. And then doing his office. It is office.

And then doing dorsiflection, ankle flexibility, like exercises because he wanted to see about dorsiflection too. I'm telling you, great. John Harbaugh is a big door selection guy. I was fucking bending over to his office for him, bro. Hey, you all remember Paul Kruger? Yes, I'll tell you who they comped somebody doing the past couple years who turned out. You got it. You got my watch line.

TJ Watt. And so, was that a white D. Lyman joke they were making? There was no joke. T.J. Watt was 469, the 161 in a 10-yard, 33, and an eighth arms. And his comp was Paul Kruger. He's turned into T.J. Watt. I think the bottom line is we are far. too fixated on some of the measurables because we don't have the ability to measure maybe the most important thing, which is athleticism, invisible athleticism. I know this sounds like a joke, but I think invisible athleticism, things like instincts, vision, you know, the same way we talk about processing for a quarterback, it's a different kind of processing for a rusher. You know, it's it's hand athleticism. It's

it's hand-eye coordination, it's instincts in traffic. It's a subtle thing like bending. It's a subtle thing like anchoring in a weird position that they would never put you through in the combine. You're not bench pressing. There's so many little metrics for athleticism that we can't really measure. They're like abstract or inexact. And I think ultimately what it comes down to is those things. Like you put T.J. Watt on paper.

he might look like Paul Kruger. You know, a guy might run like Chandler Jones. You know, I was looking at Dallas Turn. I was like, oh, the way he runs kind of reminds me of Chandler Jones. Like he's a faster, sped up Chandler Jones. Like high knees a little bit? That doesn't mean he's going to be Chandler Jones. There's just so many factors that go.

And another thing that we're going to look back at these combines and say, oh, well, Paul Kruger wouldn't T.J. Watt, and that's probably true and all that. but each player is drafted or signed into a different situation. You know, I played right end the first two years of my career. Like, that is fucked up for me. There are situations that are akin to that for all these guys. So it's not just finding the right guy. It's putting him in the right position too so that you can confirm some of this stuff that you saw.

So like when we try to oversimplify this thing like, oh, there's comps, there's numbers. We just plug and play. Like, we have a formula. I'm sure each team has a very exact formula, and boat alluded to, like, you know, quad to knee. Ratio. Ratio for some teams or whatever. But, like, this is a crapshoot.

It's a crapshoot every year, and ultimately, more than anything, the surest thing about the combine is that it entertains. That's the surest thing about the combine. I do love following along, though, man. Some of these kids are fucking freaks. Freak shows, man. Guys, next week we have interior O-line.

Get ready. Good O-line class. Get ready. We're going to be talking about a guy from Wisconsin. Bordellini? Yep. Yeah. A lot of people hyping him up.

And Joe All up, I'm not being, like, he ran an incredible time. To the naked eye, that first couple, the first couple steps, I was like, oh, boy, here's a green flag to me. Amarius Mims at the podium. Just watch him do an interview. I mean, you're like, oh, that's he man. But look at his baby face. There's no way his voice sounds. Like, there was this moment where I was like, what's his voice sound like?

Yeah. And he opened his mouth, it was like the voice of God. Or like Moses's voice in one of these old movies. I was like green flag, dude. This guy sounds like a fucking... Speaking of red flags at the podium, a lot of people talk about Caleb Williams and all of his red flags. May, can you send me a good article on that? Biggest red flag from Caleb Williams.

is the fact that he compared himself to Aaron Rogers at the podium. He's trying to do a cross-racial come, bro. Yeah. What do you want? What do you want? It's a red flag, bro. No, like, you know. Of all the players? Yeah, Aaron Rogers, come on. Hey, last thing I wanted to bring us, and then we got to go because I got to go to the

water slide, but Taylor Luan was on the combine yesterday, and I caught it for a second, and all I saw was that he was talking about his tanning bed stuff before the come off. I don't think people realize that for guys like us who are melanin deficient, to look more jacked. Now, I'm not saying if I took my shirt off right now, I would look like fucking, you know, Jared Verse. But what I am saying is that it doesn't help, you know? I'll see it.

This doesn't help. You know, if I were... Aren't you in the Bahamas right now? Where's that vacation tan? It's day one. If I were a little tanner, all these muscles start popping out, you know? And your pecks are more... So the point that Taylor LeWan was making was that...

It doesn't help being a white guy going to the combine if you're pasty white. So I just wanted to take the time to co-sign that and say, Hey, Taylor, I did used to get in the tanning bed, too. And I was embarrassed to say it, but that's like a real thing before the combine is like they tell the white guys to get in the tanning bed. That's what you ever see the bodybuilding shows? Well, yeah. Yeah, and obviously. Yeah.

Take it off, Makin. Take it off, mate. As one of your kids drawn all over your arms, what's all over your arms? You got marker all over your arms. Oh, I'm doing the same tattoo joke again. I don't think I haven't stepped into the tattoo joke space yet. Oh, he's done it bi-annually

Since we started this pod I keep track all your beds, bro Oh, your traps are looking good Thanks dude I've been writing some outdoor program I've been writing some workouts For this gym I do down here I'll send them to you maybe you should do

I'm about to get in the water slide guys So I just T-shirt on in the pool, Chris, today or no? Fuck no dude I look great You look great buddy Yeah, get yourself a little peanut collada or mojito or some sort of vacation drink for me. I will, man.

Vacation has started. We will be back Friday. Everybody enjoy their week. And just go watch as many of these edge rushers as possible. I like them all. There's no good reason to doubt any of them. They should go one, two, three, four, five. Amen.

Take care.