Green Light with Chris Long - Nate Ebner! Rugby & Football, Super Bowls & the Olympics, Relationship with his Father

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

(2:29) - Chris & Macon talk NCAA Final Four Predictions, Green Light Softball Game 2 Recap, Reactions to #0 Being Approved by the NFL and Best Stadiums for Gambling (38:30) - Nate Ebner talks his Rugby Career, Difference between Rugby 7s and 15s, Conditioning for Rugby, Positions for Chris and Kyle if they were Rugby Players and Telling Bill Belichick he's Trying out for the Olympic Rugby Team (1:05:49) - Nate Making the Olympic Team, Participating in the Opening Ceremonies, Growing up Playing Rugby and his Relationship with his Father (1:35:58) - Nate talks about working through his Father's Passing, Becoming a Special Teamer, the Patriot Way and Career with the New York Giants Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b   Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42   Green Light Tube YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenLightTube1   Green Light with Chris Long:   Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Gambling problem in Arizona, call 1-800. Next step. In Colorado, Indiana, New Jersey, and Virginia, call 1-800 gambler. And at Michigan, 1-800-270-1-1-7-1-7-1-7-8-9. 1-800-8-9. Welcome to the Greenlight Podcast. Now, boy. Today, football meets rugby.

We've got former Patriot and Giant Nate Ebner in Studio J. He's going to talk to Kyle and Chris about his really interesting career arc. This dude grew up playing rugby, competed in the international circuit in high school. Went to Ohio State was playing club rugby at Ohio State, had a conversation with his father who was really close to and decided to walk on to the football team under Jim Tressel. He made it was a special teamer, ended up getting drafted by the Patriots, and then won three Super Bowls. And on top of that, in 2016, he went to the Olympics for rugby sevens.

Hell of a career, really interesting person. Happy to have him in Studio Jay and excited for you all to listen to him. He's got a book, you can check it out, Finish Strong, a Father's Code, and a Son's Path. Enjoy that interview. It's a great hour and a half. We're going to start with Chris Macon. We're going to talk a little bit of NFL, some Final Four predictions, Ramadan, and best stadiums to gamble in.

Have a great weekend, folks, y'all. Enjoy. They call me to breathe. Keep flowing and low. We know no. The green light vein. Guys, opening days coming up. Yeah, it is.

Opening day of Ramadan. Yeah. And this is important because this weekend, I just learned this. And for those of you out there, they're looking to make some money this weekend. I was going to bet Yukon, because it looked like a fucking machine. But I come to find out, there are some guys on. on that team who are observing Ramadan, rightfully so. Including Senogo.

Seems like an awesome religion. We were saying it seems it's fucking hardcore shit in your words. Christianity's softcore. Yeah. They're not committed. No, this is Mount Rushmore of religions here. In Ramadan, you fast, sun up till sundown, sun up till sundown.

Yeah. We don't have that in us. March 22nd. If God came down today and was like, hey man, need you to fast for a month. Like I could see the guy or gal, proof of life, the whole thing. I don't know that I could do that. No water, nothing, said Sonogo.

Okay. So it's remarkable when I've heard about athletes playing during Ramadan. I feel like this has happened with football players before. Well, that doesn't make any sense because Ramadan happens the same time every year. Let's work this out. It's out of season for football. I read somewhere March 22nd through April 20th this year. Okay.

But it does vary because I remember as a kid, it was in June because Akeem Elijah one was playing. That's what I'm saying. Hakeem had to play through Ramadan and there was a football player I think that was in training camp once during Ramadan. I don't know. I could be making this shit up. Needless to say, UCon, Ramadan starts a day before UConn plays or it's the first opening day. March 22nd, eight days ago. It was eight days ago.

Eight days ago. So we're eight days into it. Yep. So we determine, based on tip off time, do your math. Sonogo and two of his teammates will have 10 minutes to eat before tip. Okay. I'm not making light of this in any ways, but if I can profit off Ramadan. Sunset in Houston, Texas is 739 central time.

That's 839 East Coast. Game Tits at tips at Tits. I said Tits. Game Tips at 849 Eastern Time. How do you do that? Well, you don't run back out onto the floor until like, four minutes before tip. So I think it's a...

Six minutes to house a burger. I think it's a bar. You got a bar. Yeah, you eat a couple bars, a little bit of water. He says he's been doing it for a long time. He's used to it, doing it since high school. Crazy, man. He says, it's all good.

He's healthy. He feels healthy. Much respect to the athletes who are fasting and competing at the same time. I have no idea how you do it. And prove me wrong this weekend, but I don't know that I'm going to bet you, Con, do you think the books are pricing it in already? I don't think the books are factoring Ramadan in. No. I'm going the other way.

I swear I've seen this recently where it was like, oh, not eating all day, not great, go the other way, and then the fasting player went off. Suffice to say, it's remarkable. So we got the final four count of this weekend. You got any liens? I think I'm running with San Diego State in the early game. FAU, San Diego State.

I'll go FAU. Okay. A little Yukon FAU national title game. Jesus. Which we can preview on Monday. day, Monday morning. Is that like the anti-bevel Conway of Final Fours? Is this the ugliest?

I was wondering this if Adidas was going to be like, hey, FAU, you. I know we have tiers of uni's here. We're going to go ahead and give you the good stuff for this weekend. We're going to outfit you with our best stuff, our best materials. Because they're wearing the baggy stuff with the big owl logo on the top, the number, and then the name below the number on one of their outfits. It's not good. It's not good.

for an outfit like FAU wearing a baggy bad outfit I think it fits. It can be crippling though too. What a sentence. Yeah. All right jumping around the sports world softball we got fucking beat again real quick. This was

the last one was like ha ha he fucking lost on the last play. We're so unlucky but we're building something and then like all right as a little background In college, I was on team, my senior year, they called us the cardiac calves. We won a bunch of games by less than three points. It was like some sort of an NCAA record. Football, yeah.

Football. It was crazy. Now, we're kind of following suit in softball, but we're losing these games. The sports gods are coming back for all those wins because they're taking them away from us. So we lose the first game, 13 to 12 on a walk-off single. Second game, we get out there. I heard it was an infield single, too. Yeah, it was.

But it was a bullet back at Randy and Reed's dad who's how old is Randy? He's 70. Okay, he looks great. And he's out there pitching for us. I didn't know Randy was involved. Yeah, okay. Looks all good. All good.

Now you feel like an asshole. So Randy was pitching for us again. And lo and behold, first inning, they hit a liner back at him, hits him in the leg. He's got to go to the dugout. We come in at the bottom of the first. He's got fucking seam marks on his knee. Yikes. So we're down a pitcher

We've got to move Big Tom to pitcher We're down to somebody Hot Corner Brian Nelson has to That's the subbin He's actually pretty good former URI baseball player So he's got a live arm You didn't know that He ripped he ripped a

You know from the hot corner All the way to first To get throw I was nervous Because he could have just tagged the base runner Coming from second to third Or he could have tossed it to second For the force out there But no he fires up the cannon

And launches it over to first So long story short We're up 13 to 4. John Phillips hits three dongs. Okay, JP hits three dingers. Same spot. The third one was the coolest thing I've ever seen. Him and the pitcher are talking back and forth.

This pitcher had my number. He's throwing knuckle balls and fucking all types of junk. I just did not have my best day. One for four. And not a good-looking one-for-four. John Phillips, though, he's like a... He's Tim Wakefield's worst nightmare. This guy, of course, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys for a long time.

my old roommate. Denver Broncos. Don't forget about God's team. This guy is drawing back and forth with the pitcher. He's already hit two dingers. He's like, yeah, put it over the strike zone a little bit. Their son and pitcher makes a mistake and hangs one. And as he hits the ball, he says, thank you. Before he hits him, the halfway there, John just yells, thank you. Yep. Oh, I was thinking even before he swung, he said thank you. You're not. Oh, before he goes, he goes, thank you. He was loading his hands. So anyways, John was carrying the team. I got a report in the DMs about JP in the middle of your game. It was insane.

13 to 4 we're up. We get sloppy in the field. We give up like five runs. Last inning, we get the bases, juice, two outs. And the outfield in general has been struggling tracking fly balls. It's like something we need to work on. Fly ball goes over one of our buddy's heads and the base is clear. And it's like you go from, hey, we're going to be the fucking,

and the Yankees here to, oh my God, we're Owen 2, and we've lost on two walk-off hits. So just a little update there. Also, we didn't play. I didn't know the last podcast. I told you about a guy last Friday night that came to the bar at Dirty Nellies and knocked over his bar stool

to come over and talk to us. He was so drunk. And he was like, we're playing y'all. The boys are coming from over the mountain. They're coming from Waynesboro. And that's bad news when anybody's coming over the mountain to play softball. And we're going to beat you.

Guy gave me some Zen. went on his merry way. I was looking for him. We weren't playing the Waynesboro team. I said last week, when you're playing softball, the worst fucking occupation to play is a bunch of electricians.

And what do we do? We roll up and see B&B Electric in the other dugout. And lo and behold, they came back and beat us. So hats off to those guys. It's pretty embarrassing to get beat by guys

that have worked on my house and I kind of like know them. Do you feel the type of target on your back. I do. Do you see it? Oh, I, because I'm, I'm coaching third base so I can hear you hear them everything that they're talking about. Every time that like you, JP or Kyle does anything, they're talking about it and like I felt really bad losing, but I also feel good for them. They must have really enjoyed that. Yeah, because you know, they beat a couple NFL players. Yeah. You know, it's kind of fucking stupid when you think about it though because we're NFL players. We're not fucking

pro softball players. No, but like when they make a play against one of you guys, they're all Celebrating it so happy. Good for them. And they sure aren't talking when we make a play against him. We had a throw from left field on the money. Kyle tagged the hell out of somebody. Oh, it was awesome. To throw somebody out at home.

JP, a play in the field. There's a line drive about like eight, nine feet up in the air. He just sticks his glove up there, grabs that the guys run into second he hits first. It's a double play. For sure. I mean, let me just, let me say this because I don't think people at home really want to listen to us,

talk about softball for too long. But when I was in St. Louis, I've told this story before, we started slow and Jeff Fish was the coach. We started like one and three. And then we had our early by week. We had this big meeting where everybody's kind of in the seats waiting for Jeff. Anytime you've got to wait for a coach in the NFL, it's like bad news. Like he's definitely not late for any reason other than he's about to cut somebody or he just cut somebody or he's got some, he's going to storm in and flip a table. Well, Jeff walks in. and our assholes are all puckered up real tight.

And he rolls out a cooler. And we're like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Maybe he needs something to sit on. So he sits on the cooler. And he goes, guys, I just talked to the league office. And everybody's like holding their breath. Because what could that be? And he says, they told me that the preseason this year actually was eight games.

And our season starts next week. So in the meantime, he busts open the cooler and starts tossing beers. out into the fucking team meeting room. It's legendary. And we're all like, we're getting ready to get our asses kick, you know, and dad's going to take us to Disney World. It was like that kind of 180.

I want to do that right now. Our preseason is actually two games, and the season starts next week. So opening day, I don't know who we play, but just get ready. And that's what I texted you after the game. I was like, you know,

I think we should start drinking before the game. I'm sorry, let's have a couple pops right before the game, do that, get that out of the way, and then we can go home after a while. Now, that Rams team didn't make the playoffs. Oh, look, I was going to maybe not mention that. You know, it's not a big deal. One more thing on sports, I went to a Harlem Globetrotters game Monday night with my kids. Okay, I told you we got a limo, okay?

Because like, you don't, limos nowadays are a little bit more easy to get. They're not as big a status symbol. Now I think you see a limo and people are like, oh, that's unnecessary. But back in the day, it was like, that must be a movie star. So we loaded up in the limo. The kids were having a blast. We went to the JPJ over there. I didn't know what to expect because I'd never been to a Harlem Globetrotters game.

I thought they, like, really played each other hard. It's like a show. Okay? I'm like an idiot. You never heard of the Washington generals? Washington generals. I was pulling for the Washington generals. They had a big guy named Burton.

He had to be 6-8, 280s from Cleveland. I talked to him. I told the guy from the Globetriders who came over, was like, you need anything? I was like, yeah, I want to meet number 47. So I was kind of rooting for the generals. He was a guy that was like pushing all the guys around. He didn't run back and down, back up and down the court.

He kind of just cherry picked. The Globe Trotters won. Do they ever lose? They did lose one time. I'm trying to remember the date, but it was like by accident. Yeah, you could tell it would have been a big accident. It would have been a big flub up. But it was a lot of fun, man.

Like I would definitely, not that anybody, needs, you know, the Globetrotters need an endorsement from somebody. I mean, they're kind of famous as fucking. I guess I'm the only one on earth that didn't realize the nature of that basketball game. Right. But it is a fun show. Can you imagine seeing Will Tchamberland play for them back in the day?

Oh, would have been insane. Would have been insane. Would have been insane just to see Walt Chamberlain. So hats off to the Globetrotters, man. And after the game, they all sign autographs for everybody, the whole thing. It was awesome. Well, hold on. What?

Well, how upset is corporate Scott at the O&2 start? It's not great. It's not great. We can do better because I think a lot of the mistakes that we've made are fixable. Yeah. Have the talent. So I'm behind this preseason first two games. You know, the first time we've ever played together.

There's a lot of new things happening. How is the chemistry? I think the chemistry is good. The vibes are good on the team. Everything feels great. There's just, you know. We got big bats. Dr. Fax hit the ball really well.

Dr. Fax almost hit a dinger the other night. He had morning track power, but he almost hit a danger. Where is Faxe is going to be in a new position. He moves around a little bit. Yeah. He's been in the outfield and catcher. And you know what? He improved a great deal in the field. Yes. He did make a couple plays. He's been hitting swinging the bat really, really well, swinging hard. We just got some things to clean up. That's it. It's not a, these are not major adjustments.

Yeah. We'll be there. We're good. Yeah. I think you guys. guys might like suck and not be very athletic. We don't see. Yeah, no. Try coming to a game. We don't suck. I'm our worst player.

Yeah. Yeah. Just to add another thing to the long list of things that you don't have time for, but we, you're on the roster. My friend who DM'd about JP, he was like, where are you? And I was like, my not doing things is not just a bit. I actually do not do that. That's why I'm not there.

All right. So we got Nate Ebner on today who's just an awesome human being and a hell of a competitor, somebody that I played with in New England, Olympian and rugby, Super Bowl champion. That conversation is a lot of fun. Kyle and I just wrap that up. So you get to that in a couple minutes. In the spirit of talking about football, we had some fun news this week. And there's a couple of things that popped up in football this week. Where do you want to start read? Zero's. We're talking about zeros in the group chat. Everyone was tweeting about it. Okay. What are your thoughts on the zero as now?

an NFL number, an available number, but not for delay. On how you feel about the number zero. Though a traditionalist, comma, I kind of like it, strangely, period. Okay. Proceed with caution, period, is my advice to these players. Like I saw Micah Parsons. You know how sometimes there's things that people do

just because they can do it. Like it's a novelty. It's like, oh, I can do this now. Let me go do it. That's what I feel like is going on right now in the NFL. You know, single digits I gave really mixed reviews on last year or two years ago or whatever it was. I've seen some of these edits where, like, Michael Parsons shared like,

oh, I'm wearing number zero. And I'm like, that looks nowhere close to as good as number 11. I see. I don't like 11. If you wish, here are the rules of wearing number zero. Number one, be awesome. Okay, yeah, right. Number two, don't have zero stats.

If you're number zero and you have zero stats, you're walking into a bunch of bad jokes. Number three, be Jim Otto. Jim Otto looked fucking clean in Double Zero. That's what I think they should actually allow is Double Zero, because Double Zero looks awesome. I also think Zero looks better on basketball players. Yes, for sure.

It looks unquestionably, Very good on some basketball players. There's a guy in Philly. I forget his name. Washington, maybe, is his last name in Philly. And he wears number zero, and he looks great. And he says that he wears zero because it reminds him of, it kind of looks like an O, and he's from Oklahoma.

And you know what? He's got a point. Are you talking about Tyrese Maxie? He's the number zero. Is he zero now? Yeah, Tyrese Maxie. Well, is he from Oklahoma? I don't know who the guy that they had wore number zero before,

but he looked pretty clean. And it maxi looks good and everything. Dallas, Texas. That's where he was born. There was a guy for the Sixers that said he wore zero because it looked like an O. And I see the point. In baseball, if you look at it,

there's only been 21 players that have worn number zero. That makes sense because they believe in like juju and shit like that. And like zero is probably not like good juju. Yeah. The Yankees will have to use zero because they keep retiring every number. Do they really? Yeah, corporate Scott did not like that. Hey, listen, all I'm saying is proceed with caution.

It works in basketball. You know who started it in basketball? Olden Pollynees was one of the first guys. There was actually a guy before him, Orlando Woolridge. And then in 1947, there was a guy named Johnny Jorgensen. They played for the Stags. Can you imagine the swag or the interest in like, who is this guy wearing number zero in 1947?

Like that just had to be completely off the board. Innovator. Yeah, right, exactly. And it didn't happen for another 40 years or whatever it was until Woolridge and Polynes wore it. So my point is also I can't imagine a fucking coach in football yelling, hey, zero. You know, like, you know, coaches yell people's numbers. Like it just doesn't roll off the tongue. So mixed reviews from me.

So neither positive or negative. Exactly. Just like the number zero. I could like it on like a 6-7-250 tight end, catching touchdown passes. You're basically talking about the Washington kid in Georgia. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and he looked kind of weird in that thing,

Darnell Washington. Yeah. I'm just thinking, positionally, it's not going to work for everybody. Have they limited it to certain positions? Yes, thankfully, big guys can't work. zero because and here's my concern about big guys wearing zero it's very font dependent but it's also like if you're a big guy that zero can shrink pretty quick yeah on your jersey yeah as it as any

single digit would I mean can't quarterbacks wear zero I don't think so yes yes they can no way yeah just and there's an edit of Justin Herbert wearing zero it looked weird jelan hurts had an edit that's got him in Baker mayfield written all over yeah yeah I don't know who would be Baker yeah Baker I like it for punters and kickers It's also cool as a rebrand for somebody like Calvin Redley who's coming back. Now he's going to wear number zero. Zero bets placed. Gilbert Arena, Agent Zero said he changed his number to zero

because people said he would play zero minutes as a rookie. So it was a motivational thing for him. That's funny. People, it's like a swag reset. I'm surprised Calvin Ridley didn't apply for minus 110. Oh, that's good. That's really good. And actually, a lot of people made the, well, that was his balance.

That was his balance at the end of the year joke. That's the next level joke. Yeah. That's the better joke. I didn't laugh, but that's funny. Good jokes. Oh, I'm laughing now. It was like a delayed slow burn.

Yeah. I did steal it from somebody. Oh, you know. There is. That's how much credit you'll get. Nice. So the other NFL news, I'll give you one that I'm really excited about. Eagles are going to wear Kelly Green next year.

Yeah. Yep. Thank you. Some things make so much sense and we just don't do them. Yep. in society. And this is like, this is one of those things that everybody unanimously wants,

like gambling, like, you know, things like that for the longest time, we're like, why can't we do this? Like, why can't we legalize marijuana? Why can't the Eagles wear Kelly Green? You know, it's up there. But what? They have to petition the league to wear a second alternate helmet so that the lid will match the jersey.

Right, and that's where we get into the like, really what are we doing? Exactly. When the Rams went back to the, their throwbacks but had to wear the Navy blue helmets to Dallas. That was like a year or two after I left. I don't even know if I'd have been able to run out of the tunnel. No.

It was ugly. Yeah. So I'm really excited about the Eagles wearing Kelly Green. Everything about it just makes me happy. It makes you feel warm inside. Make you want to come back? No. For a game, yeah.

The last thing is what Matt, they give me the background on this so I don't butcher it with the Well, the NFL, which as recently as a couple years ago, was staunchly anti-gambling, has changed their rules and is going to allow sports books into stadiums in states where gambling is legal. And those states are many. Yeah. There's a bunch of them, and there probably will be more soon.

And, you know, there's some states like Texas where it's not legal. So, like, if I was to rank, I was going to rank top five degenerate stadiums. Yeah, like where the people are. would be the most thrilled putting in the craziest, most insane bets. Just where the handle is going to be out of control. Dallas obviously might be in that conversation, but I'll leave them out of it because I presume that they're not going to have a brick-and-mortar sports book there. I don't know, man.

Like the desire of NFL fans, they're like the sheer volume of how many people go to those games, it might alter their state's politics. Listen, and I looked at a few metrics in coming to this conclusion, but, you know, there was a 2021 study on most units of alcohol consumed at NFL games. Now, I want to make this point before I read these teams off. I think this study does not account for tailgating. So, like, you know, I'm not seeing the chiefs on this list,

but I've been to a tailgate at Arrowhead. Like, these people are slam, dude. Bengals, 5.2 drinks per game. Okay, Ravens, 4.7 DPD, Bills, 4.5, DPD, Bears, 4.5, Panthers, 4, 4, Broncos, 4-4, read, which is impressive out of this whole list. They're doing that at high altitude, so adjusted, and the edibles and that sort of thing like there are like seven drinks a game, the way I'm looking at it. So you think there's correlation between degeneracy and alcohol consumption?

I do, I do, is that's going to factor to chargers, the Browns. I know there was that guy that went viral, the Browns fan this year, passed out in his seat and they dubbed over some Russian music and I was like I just couldn't get him out of my head I was like there's no way there's seven but they are seven according to this study or eight the Rams 4.3 drinks per game I don't believe that it's a bunch of celebrities and TikTokers in there

the Lions 4.1 drinks per game I don't believe that either I think they're higher and doesn't they like their history of losing impacted a little bit? I think it does and I'm going there but like one issue here with this study is that Allegiance Stadium I don't think was open yet in 21 and I we caught a game at Allegiance Stadium and I probably had 11 drinks okay because they have a bunch of like like nightclub seating in those places and there's bottles of like Aces Spades being passed around the whole thing like people are drunk

with a capital D in that stadium also where are the saints I feel like people are hammered in New Orleans And that's the Caesar Superdome, so it's made for betting. Exactly. Now, some of their numbers on like how big, because I was even looking at the handles state to state in sports betting over the last couple of years in Louisiana, not very high. So maybe they have a proclivity to get fucked up, but not to gamble. The most negative fan bases, this was from a study that I checked out,

the Vikings, number one. Most negative? Yeah. And I get why when you really think about it. Like their attitudes? It was aggregated based on chatter online and how much of it was negative and so on and so forth. But the Bengals were number two.

The Ravens were number three. The lions were number four. All things considered, that's pretty impressive. Well, there's some correlation there with the drinking booze and the being negative. Exactly. You're starting to see some overlap. Panthers, giants, Browns, Texans, Steelers, and Eagles. number 10.

So, you know, when people tell you that the Eagles are the most combustible fan base in sports, it's not true. Not even in the top nine. Okay. If you hadn't won in 2017, I think they'd be a little higher. Yeah, maybe. So here's my top five, okay? Number one, I think Chicago is going to be off the charts, degenerate here.

I mean, like when you think about bookies, I feel like everybody on the south side's bookie. Right? I know a few. Yeah. In 2014, so they're sandwiched between Iowa, which has been in the game since 1989 when it comes to gambling in Illinois. They've been doing the riverboat thing. So anytime you're in the state that's doing the riverboat thing, there's a bunch of degenerates. They're also number four beers drank per game. I think they're feeling hopeful. And also will be trailing a fair amount and yet believing in their quarterback. Yeah, live money line. A lot of money on. So maybe a little bit of risk involved there for the sports books in Chicago,

but I think they're in the top five. The Lions. Okay, newfound confidence, like have they ever been this confident? When's the last time the Lions? It's been 30 years since they won a playoff game. Newfound confidence, they have one of the highest handles in the country, as far as sports betting is concerned anyways. They're also a top 10 drunk stadium.

The Eagles. Also, indoor. So like the Wi-Fi, you're not going to have to worry. Yeah, you can be sitting and see. You don't even have to go to the sports book. Great point. Yeah. Great point.

The Eagles, another Booky Central situation. June 2019 in New Jersey, the market actually eclips Nevada in sports betting. That's right. New Jersey is super high on that list. And you figure like South Jersey, you know, I throw the Giants in there too for the same reason. Kansas City tailgating is a riverboat state

and why would you not bet on Patrick Mahomes I feel like that's that's going to be a stadium where people are going to be betting a lot and I don't know if Florida is one of these states where you can gamble legally online but if you think about it

the other day I was scrolling through my timeline and saw a viral tweet comparing Tua's numbers to Dan Marino's numbers so people down there are fucking, they are eating it up. I mean, they are sure that this is

the best team that's ever taking the field. And with the free agent acquisitions and the general vibe down there, I think people are going to be throwing money around. Let me throw in a, both teams in the DMV. The Ravens, you said they drink a lot and they're very negative, and now they're not going to have

Lamar Jackson. But Maryland hasn't had a huge handle. Fair. But that might be a lot of fans betting against their club, which could result, this could result in a lot more booing, which is fun. That's right. Always fun, even if your team scores. And the commies, a lot of irrational confidence within that fan base. I think of them as more apathetic. Certainly of late with the entire Snyder saga. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they're also passionate. But they're not showing up

as part of the problem. They're not showing up. That's part of the problem. I don't know how good the Wi-Fi is there in Landover. Poor. Yeah. Poor. I left Vegas out because it's obviously Vegas. They're going to, people are going to be gambling. in Vegas. Jacksonville. I got to figure they're having a good time down there, but these are the blue bloods of degeneracy,

in my opinion, in the NFL. The Bears, the Lions, the Eagles. You could throw Cleveland in there. Kansas City, I think Miami, for unique reasons, you might see a lot of bet slips down there at Hard Rock. It's a good list.

Yeah. I was well researched. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, it was a nice report. I did it last night, watching a day. documentary on Waco, Texas, on Netflix, which was a fucking shit show.

Yeah, it was. Jesus. Well, he thought he was. Branch Divideons. That was a good joke, and none of you picked it up. I was looking at my- Fuckers. I was looking at my phone that's ringing.

Last thing, before we get to Nate Abner, and it's a Patriots segue here. Have you seen the pictures of Tom Brady on the beach with his best friends lately? I saw Brady trending. Yeah. So Brady, Amidola, Edelman, Gronk, a couple other white guys, all on the beach, tossing the pigskin around, like, enjoying. Yeah, like everybody's wearing blue shorts. Like, Gronk.

Yeah. Tom Brady tried to match up on Gronk and got pushed around a little bit. Oh, look at Tom Run. A couple things. Jules looks, I mean, he's just huge right now. He's a bodybuilder. Dola looks to have slimmed out. And the biggest takeaway from me is this.

Danny Mendoza and I are like really tight. Like we came up together. Like he was in St. Louis. He was his first friend. He puked in my closet the first night that he hung out in St. Louis. Stayed at my place. Like we've been to Bonnery. Like he's a friend.

Okay. It never ceases to amaze me how close he is to Brady. And I don't know if you have any friends like that or people you know that you're like, my friend is friends with somebody who's like one of the most famous people on earth. It's crazy to me when I see these pictures that he's really this tight with Tom Brady. It kind of makes me feel weird. It's like, you know what I mean? Well, it's funny because you might be hanging out with Amandola and then he might get a call

and get invited to something or Tom might show up. But there's definitely a, there's a barrier where it's like, hey, I know Tom, but me and Tom aren't tight. Like to cross that threshold and be in his like real. friend zone. He invited to the Yellowstone Club to throw football. Yeah, he's in that, like when they write books about Brady, if there's a movie about Brady other than 80 for Brady, uh, Danny Amadola is going to get somebody's going to play Danny Amadola. If it's not himself. Yeah, it could be. Um, you know, Matt's sister, she's really close with Dave Matthew. Yeah,

we have a few friends who are really close with Dave Matthews. fucking guy used to, Jack who used to run my farm, used to run Justin Timberlake's place at the Yellowstone Club. That stuff blows my mind. You know what I mean? I got a buddy who's Bono's buddy. Really? Yeah. No way. Swear, swear.

I swear. What does he say? I swear. About Bono. I haven't asked, actually. Has Bono seen the P.F. Chang's episode of South Park? I'll ask you. I will.

You guys have any friends like that? If we're saying friend who has a famous friend, like, yeah, because you have famous friends. Yeah, but like, there's a level of fame that comes with being Tom Brady. It's just, it's wild to me. I play with the guy, but to know his close friend is, is, is weird. It's weird. Yeah. Were you upset?

You weren't invited? No, no. What are they doing playing football? Why would they want to play football? I don't have football players. You know, I don't really like the beach that much. Yeah. And yeah.

Anyways. Is Brady all-time quarterback here? Because a lot of you football players have an ugly-ass-looking throw. He played DB on Gronk a little bit. He got pushed around. Yeah, turned around. Anyways,

I just never ceases to amaze me the people I know that are in like these tight circles. You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, like when Julian was dating Adriana Lima, I was like, dude, what is going on here, dude? Like, what is going on?

on. I've had the magazines for eons, dude. And you're dating this lady? Or like when Jason Kelsey was on Saturday Night Live all of a sudden with his brother. Yeah, but to date Adriana Lima, it's like just another level of, and the same thing with Tom and Jules dating Tom Brady in a sense, you know, BFF. Did you, you went on Ellen and the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. I did. That's when my wife lost her mind both of those times yeah it was cool me and ellen don't talk a lot anymore no but it was cool yeah yeah cheerios gave us 50,000 dollars yeah that was cool yeah uh for the foundation of course so anyways here's nate ebner hope you enjoy the interview and uh we will be back Monday I got a very special guest lined up the pod's actually Tuesday we're interviewing the guy on Monday but uh this is

somebody you guys could take a guess that that was heavily involved in the NFL, has stepped away, and has not been heard from since. Exclusive. So it's an exclusive. So check that out. Go tea. Okay, here's Nate Ebner.

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that's money, and that's cash app. Download cash app from the app store or Google Play Store today to create your own cash tag. All right, this is a good deal, man. We've been bullshitting here catching up. One of my former teammates, Nate Ebner, is here. Olympian Super Bowl champion Like you guys got so many titles A great teammate

Good friend man Yeah great looking guy I'm gonna say good I don't want to puff him up too much Yeah his intro is pretty little Wolverine to him Nate Nate good to see you bud Thanks for having me dude I'm glad I could come in And we could work it out

Yeah You know I think about that little intro And you know the sacrifices to do it all It was a great experience But I you know I'd live for the intro like that. Yeah, that's why you did what you did so that when you come on podcast, you have those titles. I'll always have that. Well, all right, so maybe a good place to start because we were just

talking about this. How far did you miss the cut by on the, on the Julian and Danny Amandola vacation with Tom Brady? I think, uh, beach. Gronks there, of course, as well. Well, I must not have had reception. I might have been out of this country at the time because, like, my text must not have come through because I didn't get anything. Yeah. And, you know, I'm sure that they, They probably reach out. They meant to reach out, you know. Same with me. Yeah, we might have been in a group chat and something happened with the messaging.

They might have an android or something like that. Probably. It seemed like guys that would have a good question. Is Julian on the juice host football? Because he looked really meaty on the beach. He's always kind of been meaty. Julian peddleman. Yeah, yeah.

It's the Jews in us, I feel like. I will not speak for him. Yeah. No, I know he's still working out and stuff. I saw him when I was out in L.A. And he's doing good and still same old dude. You know how he is. Do you watch Tom and feel like you have insight

to what he's thinking? Because, like, I wasn't with him long enough to know. In terms of, you know, through free agency and, like, retirement. And, you know, this offseason, I was convinced he was going to come back. I'm still kind of convinced he's going to come back. I can't speak to those things.

I mean, he's a month. I just think he's such a, as good as he is at football and all that, and a teammate and leader, he's just such a good dude. You know, I can reach out to him anytime and he'll respond. I had him, you know, he helped out with the charity event. I just recently did. He's just, you know, unfortunately he went to Michigan, but other than that, he's like one of the best human beings I've ever met. And I have nothing bad to say about the guy. He's awesome.

Dude, whenever I talk to people about Tom and I didn't know him that while I was there for a year, but you feel like he makes an effort to get to know you yeah you know like the day i walked in he walked up and dapped me up and was like hey i'm tom and i always remember being like no shit and you're like but you're like but you know there's there's a scale there just too handsome guys sizing each other up in a hall yeah well exactly creepy i think he wins that competition but you know he was a guy that reached out to every corner don't do that don't do that to yourself what the the humble thing No, there were a lot of hard. There were a lot of heartthrobs on that team.

There were a lot. There were a lot. Jimmy G. Whatever you're looking for, you could have found it in that locker. I remember the first time I got to see all of those characters in person, including yourself. I was on the Bears in 2015. We went up and had a group joint practice with you guys.

And I remember meeting you on the sideline. One of your coaches introduced me to you and was like, you two fuckers need to meet each other. It was essentially one of those deals. And we were like, all right, back to Indie. known to you dating. I think that was right. A lot of handsome dudes running around. On the Patriots. It was. It was. It was. So that's my intro. You had just got bad.

Because it had not been that, you'd have been like, who is this dude? You had just got back. Yeah, I did. I just got back. That was my intro to Nate because, you know, for the people listening, like, in 2016, I signed with the Pats on a one-year deal. And, you know, I think we met in the spring before you took your leave of absence. So I think I got to know you a little bit before you went to the Olympics. Were you there at all? Well, I pretty much, we played the Broncos in the AFC championship.

Yeah. Lost with that last play of the game. And then two weeks later, I sent a letter, and within four weeks I was in training camp. See, I must have. Wikimpeded you so hard that I felt like I knew you. That's awesome. And then watched you in the lunchroom.

This was the coolest part. Like, Bill was really into what Nate did, obviously. Like, you know, I think Bill, you know, being a proud American, Like, you know, he used to give us history lessons on like World War II and stuff. We'd like, we'd meet about football exclusively unless we were talking about history or something. I need to put up like, I don't know, some big battle on the projector screen and talk us through it. But Nate representing our country, I think, definitely factored into Bill's willingness to let him pursue what he was doing. Right.

And it was really cool to see how behind you he was. And then also how behind you, everybody in the locker room was. like I could tell that everybody loved you like you know the way we we huddled around the TV and watched and like I hadn't really watched rugby um a lot like leading up to that but I learned a little bit and we got to see you I think you scored yeah uh you had a try ebna with the try yeah I also got a yellow card in that game yeah we were proud but to go back to bill in that stuff you know I was actually going to be a free agent yeah I was coming in I didn't get to free agency because I resigned but Yeah.

Like, I remember having that conversation with Bill. Because, like, in 2008, I think it got announced that rugby would be in the Olympics. Right. Rugby hadn't been in the Olympics since 1924, I think. And you were a senior in high school? In 2008? No, he's a little younger than me. Yeah.

Okay. You guys were freshmen. You guys, you guys, did y'all cross-hows? That's exciting to hear for a young guy who was U-19, U-18, all everything. Yeah, yeah. Oh, we can be Olympians now. And I was, I was, I'm right on the cusp of sevens player because the Olympics was sevens. What I was playing on the World Cup teams was 15s.

Explain to me the difference. You guys aren't playing sevens. Okay. Or really? Maybe. Because there's less people. It's more speed. So it's seven on seven version of rugby?

Seven minute halves. Yeah. And in that 14 minute game, you could run well over two miles. And you're tackling and you're rucking and all this stuff. I'm saying. It's a lot of running. So that's seven. No, you can.

Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. I agree with you. I agree with you. And the Olympic format that you had just heard about in 2008 was 15s or sevens? Okay. Because you can play, you know, three games in a day. That's why.

And it's, dude, it's really tough. Not it, we'll get into that. You said the conditioning is way harder. Yeah, we'll talk about that. But to go back, I was a free agent and rugby hadn't been in the Olympics since forever, right? And you said, like, I'm a rugby player my whole life, and then it gets announced, like, how exciting. something like on my radar then but like the United States was never supposed to qualify because like we just weren't very good at sevens at the time they only take 16 teams and um and 2014 we

qualified I think or maybe 2012 so I don't know one of those two years I think it was 14 because I think I was already in the NFL and then at that point once we qualified and I knew we were going like 2014 15 like I couldn't stop thinking about it we'd be in defensive meetings and I would just you know when you start to space it I just be like man I could just be like like running and you get annoyed with the coaches and stuff and you just that was my outlet was think about rugby and so I kind of came obsessed in the back of my mind with it and then I became a free agent after that 2015 season well didn't quite become a free agent but I talked to bill and we talked we got the contract squared and I was like look bill I'm glad we got that square but like so rugby's in the

Olympics and I want to try to do that. You waited until after. After. What did he say? And I said, this is something I want to do. I feel very convicted. Like, it's kind of like, it wasn't like a question. I was kind of like, this is something I'm going to do. And if you can't get with that, I totally get it. You know, it's, I totally get that. But I have to do this. It's just, I'll think about it my whole life if I don't. You know, we had that conversation. And like, instantly, Bill was like, oh, yeah, go for it. Like, he didn't. He didn't. He didn't. He didn't. He didn't. didn't have any hesitation. And he was like, yeah, go for it. So he hangs up the phone and then like the next day I get a call from him and he's like, hey, we're going to have to put something in

your contract though. It's not, yeah, I remember verbatim, he goes, it's not like you're going sailing. You know, we got to, you know, you could get hurt. Yeah. And I said, absolutely, I get that. Yeah. And, you know, people think I'm crazy because I, you know, I guess I was at the point where I was expecting not to get a contract to go do this, hopefully make it or not, stay healthy and then sign a one-year deal and try to like play my way back into getting another contract. But the fact that I could sign a couple-year deal, you know, I knew I had that, I could go try this. If I stay healthy, you know, I'm back with the team. Like, I never thought it would work out that good. And then get that kind of support that, you know, that leadership from Bill and the Patriots organization,

Mr. Kraft. And like, like you said, they were all wearing my shirt and it was so supportive. You stopped in training camp to watch me play. Like, man. That was cool. What a, I mean, just, Nothing stops anything at training camp. Unless there's an Olympian on the team. And just, you know, that's a first class organization. I don't care what anybody says. That place is awesome. Great people. And I think that's a great example of it.

So, yeah, but man, that was a hard year. Because I played the whole 2015 season. You know, four weeks after the season, I'm in training camp for rugby, not ready for that physically. Party. You still beat up. Yeah. And but oh man that put me in a whole different world Ten times harder than football yeah and then then I came back first I was back like first day first day back

Moses and I think it was Bill that introduced me to you on the sideline between the two fields it could have been It was like staircase field I remember that I think Mike Adams was on your team he went to Ohio State at the Dublin guy yeah Dublin guy I'm a hoffman I'm a Hilliard guy Coughman, I think. A little more blue collier than that. But, no, he, yeah, Kaufman is what it was. He's a yoga instructor now. He is.

He's doing really well. My God, him. He's doing really well. But, um, ripped. Yeah, the first day back, I remember Moses and then we'll use you back into it. We know you just had a long summer. Remember when they were doing those bout runs or those. Oh, I remember.

Those three minute runs. Remember my hamstring. We had a certain distance we had to get. And I didn't know at the time because we hadn't done those yet. So I'm a fully, full padded. The day, like, seriously, like, I'm 24 hours off of a flight and just the whole summer of playing rugby, and Moses has me run this three-minute run.

Just, you know, run it, see how you do. And I went, like, way fast because I was in really good shape. And I didn't know what the pace was. You know, typically guys get about 800 yards. I was like 9.50. Yeah. It's like way too hard. I was like, I'm actually kind of tired.

And he was like, and, you know, Moses didn't say anything. He was like, oh, yeah, pretty good. And then I realized later, I was like, I went way too fast. Mm-hmm. So I, day after I get, what are you guys doing rugby two? What are you guys doing rugby two condition? Put it in perspective how difficult it is. Well, first I'll say we, we have a one three hour practice, two and a half hour,

and half of its warm ups and individual and a lot of standing around. And you have those moments. It's just long what we do. But it's just those maximum efforts, you know. You're in one-on-one. or you're Overse D in your pass rushing or whatever you're doing, or we're back in the deep half or whatever, and it's like those five to six second max efforts,

rugby's like, one, our training days were three times a day. And sometimes typically it'd be weight room, two field sessions, but sometimes it'd be three field sessions. And in an average field session, those sessions are only 45 minutes. And in that session, we can run anyone, from 5,000 to 7,000 meters. And Julian was probably one of the higher guys as a receiver in practice and three and a half hour practice,

and they were going about six or seven thousand yards. And if you got to 7,000 meters in rugby, they'd pull you from practice because you're just getting too much volume. But we do that three times a day. Right. And you do that for a week and weeks and weeks and weeks. You're putting serious mileage in. You know, there was a point, like I played football probably around between 208 and 212,

and I was, by the time the Olympics came, I was 203, and I was eating pancakes with syrup and peanut butter on them and doing everything I could, and I just couldn't hold it because it's just the demand. So you're saying the max exertion is 7K per training session. There could be up to three field training sessions a day, like 21,000 meters. And then you do that seven days a week? Not seven days a week. but that would be like a big day oh my gosh that's like training camp in the 80s is what it sounds like yeah it is like you're just on your feet i started to think you know they need a

you know me from from football i'm like they need a cb a this is crazy you need a union i'm sitting there going this is crazy but then you start to play and you realize like you need to be had that tolerance because you get burnt out quick and it took me Honestly about six to eight weeks to adapt to that right dude those first three weeks man I felt like after five or ten minutes I was the slowest guy on the field, you know just looking like shit and just I'm like man I don't I had adapted my body yeah I played rugby you're not a dude just jumping into it you're like you're yeah right and but this is like a high level these dudes have been doing this and I kind of adapted my body to be a

football player. We do explosive movements. It's all max effort. You know, I would say rugby is like, you know, that's the difference. Football's 100%. Every rep is 100%. And I think that's why it's the most violent, most physical, fastest game there is. It's not even close. But rugby's like 95. And then when you, when you're not like, it's, do you have a moment where you might see a guy sprinted down the sideline and he's trying to match? But even once he knows he's in the clear, it's like pull it back. you know like conserve energy you're always thinking about conserving energy and it's just it is a serious grind we would do these things called yaka yards yaka i don't know where it came as a polynesian thing but guys would throw up they're yakking you know so i don't know but we would go

it would be a the way i call it is like a 45 minute fuck session you're gonna get fucked and it's just like once you're fucked you're not doing the fucking no you're not doing the fucking once you get fucked it's just it's it's grinding through it you know I talk about in my book it's like the dark place you know you have to get there and then once you get there you have to be able to work through that and keep a clear head but we would do like just like wheelbarrows I'm carrying you while you're walking 100 yards and then your rest is carrying me while I'm I'm walking 100 yards and we'll do that for five minutes you get 30 seconds rest you go to another station for 45 minutes So it's like tackle a bag, get up, tackle a bag.

I mean, it's just, AP mat drills. It's like in the spring. It's got to be, it's got, I mean, the only thing that I think would compare is like a UFC fighter. Got it. Someone, because they're going those five minute rounds. We're going seven minutes. But you got to be able to, you know, touch your maximum sprint speed. But then, then I got to tackle you.

So there's that physical exertion that seriously can tire you out. But then there's like the thing about rugby that's cool is what's called the Ruck. it's the breakdown. It's what keeps the game flowing. So I tackle you, but now I've got to get up and compete for the ball, because if I can steal it, then we get the ball. You know, it's just, it's the ultimate test

of endurance and strength. I would put it against any sport. What happens in a scrummage? Well, is it like a bunch of finger? You're a scrum. No, I mean, maybe back in the back. You know how people say at the bottom of a pile in the NFL, there's all this crazy shit,

which I think is exaggerated. Is it like nine on seven goals? line essentially in the scrum whereas yeah you guys you guys would have been in the scrum for sure prop you'd have been a prop yeah what's the prop that's what everybody tells me I would have played what is it I just I don't know he's in the front row so with the scrum you got front row boys you're front rower you probably might have played number eight number eight and that's the position so in rugby your position is your number you don't get the where uh you know there's no number zero no there's no now in the NFL so you'd have been one or three

and you'd have been how tall are you? 6.3 and some change. No, you're not tall enough. You'd have been a number eight. You'd have been a number of job. Give me the breakdown on number eight. So you're in the front row,

the front three and the front three. There's a loose head, a tight head on the other side, and in the middle is a hooker. Neither you look like hookers today. And then there's the second row. There's only two guys. Those guys are about at least six four to six seven.

So you're too short. What was Jordan Milita? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jordan Milita. He would have been a prop, prop, prop, tackle. He's huge, he's huge. Freak. And then you get your, like, meaty linebacker is on the outside of that second row. They're flankers.

Right. And you get. Like High Tower. High Tower, maybe number eight, though, because he's a big boy. Okay. He's huge. Did you play with the Landon Roberts? Yeah.

Maybe he's, like, a flanker, open-side flanker. Let him just run. As soon as that ball comes out, just go run and tackle guys. Like, and then the number eight's, like, a small. smaller second row, but a skillful guy. You know, you got to make some decisions. Like a tight end. Smart, big skill, kind of not bigger than the flankers, but not quite the height of a

second row and not as heavy as a front row. You'd have been a number of. So if you're looking at the NFL today, if there's anybody, you know, in the scouting department from the all blacks, who are they salivating over in the NFL? Like, we could teach that guy to be the best. Who's the NFL looking at rugby players? Yeah, like if there's scouting, if there's a scouting. head from from the rugby department and they're looking at the NFL and they're like NFL everybody okay

everybody but like who's the guy who's the guy that they wish they could teach like Lamar jackson if he you don't know you don't know because because everybody has to it's like it's like looking at somebody to and I talk about this in the book and this transition it's like to me like basketball is the most relatable sport okay to rugby I mean you take out the tackling aspect of it and it's a flow sport You kind of got to read and react. It's constant movement. You're making decisions as you go. I'd say basketball is definitely the most relatable.

Now, you could look at a bunch of NFL players and be like, they'd be great basketball players. But at the same time, they've got to be able to have the skill set to dribble, to pass, to shoot. And then you've got to read the game. Now I'm thinking Mahomes is the guy because he's so creative. Julian would have been sweet because he's so explosive. He could have, you know, cut back and forth. I remember Mike, I brought Mike Friday, the head coach of the sevens team out to OTAs one year, and he just kept coming up to me, who's the number 11?

Yes, that's what I wanted to know. He goes, who's the number 11? The flash. Because Julian would, he was so explosive. When you think about sevens, you got seven on seven on a soccer field. So it's way wider. We're talking 75 meters wide. And that's really a lot of space.

You get Julian with the ball in the middle and everything slows down. and he's got 10 yards on both side of the guy in front of him. You know, Julian is electric. And you need a guy that can kind of get halfway through. I think Kelsey would be good. But then we got guys that a big dude that's hard to tackle,

but skillful. Like, Travis would be a great player. Smoothly. You think about, you think, well, yeah. But then you, I'm thinking 15s though. 15s. 15s for Jason. So when you say sevens, I'd be number three,

but that doesn't put me on the field. Sevens, you're not out there on seven. So I do understand. He's taking a day off. Sevens is basically seven-on-seven football. What about, what about, you know, like it's a physical game? How do guys deal with pain in rugby? You know how we used to, we'd have Torit-all, we'd get the pills, we'd get, and that's

like a big issue in American football is like, hey, the life after we talk about the wearing tear on our bodies. Are they as cognizant of it in rugby? or is it something that like their culture is different where they just it is I think it's probably pretty similar I don't think that there's not the money and the doctors and the you know access to you know we got tort all and shots here everywhere but it's in terms of the two sports they're both very physically demanding and and they're painful in a way so you kind of have a lot of crossover there as far as what guys are going through and people are keeping their head out of the

tackles mostly like I was about to ask that yeah you guys are They're out there with no helmets, basically. No, yeah. We don't have that one. Yeah, I mean, now I'm talking about philosophy of the sport, right? So when we're out there playing football, there's all 11 of us, and that running back got the ball, and all 11 of us are going to get this dude. Not like rugby where it's like, we all can't converge on the ball.

As soon as you converge on me, both of you guys, I'm just going to dip it. And then you can't hit me. like this is why after the throw yeah this is why I think rugby is a much much safer game you know yeah you don't have helmets and pads

so you get cuts but cuts cuts are nothing and you know we're blowing shoulders out and ligaments and broken bones like crazy though in rugby but like the the philosophy of it

one you can't hit a guy without the ball so right there you know that there's no collisions there's no blocking yeah so you're not going to get blocked by somebody the only time you're going to get hit you know you're going to get hit. I either have the ball going into contact or I'm tackling somebody going into contact

or like we talked about earlier, the rucks, the breakdowns competing over the ball. I'm prepared for contact. I've been running down on kickoff and I'm like, I'm running down full speed, 20 some miles an hour and anybody can hit me at any time. And I see some monster collisions in that sport because you just don't know where it's coming from. Like that in a sense is stupid. Like, you know, it's dangerous. When we talked about offense and defense, you know, they run an outside stretch play or something like that. Like, you're out there. If we got a corner or something out there, he's shooting his gun.

And I might take the corner out. But he's shooting. Friendly fire him. Oh, yeah, that too. That too. But, like, he's shooting his gun. He's trying to force this thing back inside. Like, in rugby, you can't shoot and miss.

Because as soon as I shoot and miss, now you got to hold. And those other guys got to come tackle. And then there's an over. What's called an overlap because they're going to pass. So philosophically speaking, I have to be very efficient in my one-on-one tackling. I can't have the guy next to me worried about tackling my guy and his guy. He's got to trust that I'm going to make my tackle. And because of that, those collisions aren't necessarily fighting for the one yard.

It's like, I'm going to get you down. Yeah, I'm going to get, I'm going to get you down. And just that sense of the tackle makes it safer. Now, don't get me wrong. There's some big collision. 15s for sure where they're fighting. in the goal line, but it's just philosophically a different game. It's safer because of that philosophy.

I like Sevens. I like the sound of Sevens a lot. It seems like a really fun. It seems like a fun game to watch. I would imagine. 15s likes the sound to you. Sevens doesn't. 15 seems like it's too close to home for me in football because there's a lot of shit

flying in the middle. Sevens is explosive, exciting, athletic, fast-paced. And, you know, if the game sucks, it's over in seven minutes and the next one comes on. and it's just you see a lot of skillful stuff in that game. But if you're like a true rugby connoisseur, you know, that fine wine, that chess game, that chess game's 15s. So let me ask you this. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So if you're really in. It's ultimate war. It's 15. There's way more strategy. There's kicking for territory and position. There's fuckers everywhere. Sevens is all about possession.

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Because, you know, football players are one of a kind in a lot of ways. Like, you know, you got to be kind of fucked up to play. Absolutely. I think what you're talking about? very similar. But I would argue, culturally speaking, rugby's

has a lot better guys. Don't get me wrong. We have some better dudes. Better dudes. You got some really great guys that we meet in the locker room. Like, you know, you're cool. He's okay.

We all know good guys in the NFL. Yeah, we know some decent guys, but you get, we see a ton of prima donnas, a ton of me guys. And you start to think about the culture they grew up. in, you know, hey, it's, I better make this about me. I better be the best because that's the only way I'm going to succeed.

And that just that mindset carries over into the success that they've had. They get, they get a scholarship, they get drafted, or they're in the NFL, they're doing well. And it's because of them. You know what I mean? And you get a lot of that in football, and the money makes it that way. And rugby, I don't know if, you know, there's, I don't know how many Polynesians, you know, but they're the greatest people in the world. Best people on the planet.

And when you've got those types of dudes in your team culture, I've never met a Polynesian that's like a me guy. Yeah. I've never met one. Yeah. And they're just the best teammates. And ultimate hang. And when you get that culture of just like guys that genuinely are there for the team

and you just just full of great dudes. Are there a lot of Polynesians on the American team? Or is it mostly like, hey, there's enough Polynesian international teams. That's a really good question, and that was something that the United States has to combat that other countries don't. You look at Fiji that won the gold medal in the year that I went. They're all Fijian. They all think the same way. They all grew up the same way.

They're all the same. And they all think the same. You know, in the United States, you've got Polynesians that came over. You've got some Tongans. You've got some Fijians. Then we've got some kids from England or Australia or South African. And then you got your just born in America. pot here. And American rugby players, unless they grew up like I did, then they started,

they didn't start till high school or college. They just, they want to get the ball and run as far as they can and then think about passing. And that's not always the best. But trying to get that melting pot, like you said, of guys thinking the same way, it's a task in itself, whereas you go to the New Zealand, all blacks, and they're just, they've all played rugby and they all think the same way, Fiji. I mean, that is a, that's a hard part because it's such a flow game. You have to think. the same one so not let me ask you this not not the best but who are the toughest nationalities where you're like they have reputations as just being hardcore motherfuckers you get out there on the samoa the first one that comes to mind is samoa i mean new zealand's gonna be be tough

south south africans are great great really nice people i mean i'd say new zealand's tough because they're just so good. South Africa's seven teams kind of gotten smaller over the years, but I just think like Samoa is the first one that comes to mind. And have you, you've played the,

you talked about practicing with the black shirts. The all, all blacks. I keep on with black shirts. Yeah. Please don't come fucking. They do wear black shirts,

so you're not wrong. Yeah, with the guys in the black shirts. You tackled the guys with the black shirts. Yeah, so we did, once, once they selected the Olympic team,

we went, to IMG in Florida. Yeah, so we went down there. Fabulous place. Yeah, what a facility. They met us down there, and we had like two or three days of scrimmages. It's like a pre-warmup to the Olympics. Joint practice.

And essentially a joint practice. But it was like, for me, like that, I really came on, and we can talk about my journey through that. But I went through hell the first six weeks trying to make that Olympic team, just getting in shape. They sent me to Hong Kong, which was, you know, the traveling all over the world was such a cool thing just to try to make the team. I, you know, played in these tens tournaments and stuff when I wasn't with the sevens team. And I was really trying to find my niche. I was so football. I was so Bill Belichick, don't turn the ball over, you know, run. And this, like, and I needed

to, like, break that, you know what I mean? And I would say, and I think most people would have said those first two or three months is like he's just not the guy he used to be like from a mindset physically I was there but so I had to break loose of that and I'd say my fuck it meter went up and and I'd let that stuff go and I really came into my own when we had training camp we had like a six week selection camp with 30 guys and just playing games and I really just kind of let go there and that's where I came into my own but then once they selected the team and I knew I was on it We went to play the All Blacks in Florida before the Olympics, and I really came into my own there.

But, yeah, we scrimmaged with them. They're the gold standard. They're cool. They are in 15. They're a great measuring stick for a guy who's getting back into it. Yeah, they're top four in the world every year. Yeah. I mean, I'd say Fiji is probably the gold standard in sevens because they're all, you know,

you'll get your Julian Edelman, that's 5, 10, and just electric, and then you'll have like a 6-4 dude that runs like Travis. And it's just like, where do you tackle him? And then when you do tackle him, he's waving the ball around. Like he's just waiting to pitch it once you commit to the tackle. Like they're unbelievable. And they just flick the ball around and they're not even looking. It's crazy.

But, yeah, New Zealand is really good. They're always top four in the world. Is there an intimidation factor that's very real when you play the All Blacks? Like, is it, you know, we see the HACCO. We see like the pageantry. with it and like a lot of times I'm looking at the other teams and they're trying to to lock in and look unfazed but I wonder when you play those guys the aura like when you play the pads you know how people sometimes they lose the game before they even start playing the

game yeah absolutely that's that's a real thing I think what you're talking about is 15s 15s so for the longest time and seven's yeah you know you're walking on the field against New Zealand for sure but it just doesn't have that it's so individualized like when the big five Come walking out. That's when it's a different game. You know, you're in a stadium. It's a three-hour game like football. It's one match and they do the Haka at the beginning and yeah, it's different and there was this span of time where they were just literally unbeatable. They had like a 97% win rate. Which is just absurd. But that's starting to change like there's this tournament called the Six Nations. I don't want to get into that, but like Ireland's one of the best teams, the best team in the world right now. Hell yeah, dude. France is really good. weirdly enough like Argentina's coming up but South Africa has always been competitive Australia and it's just like I don't want to say they've lost that but it's just like the rest of the world's kind of caught up and everyone's more competitive and so they they've lost that dominance if you will

in my mind it does seem like a sport where you would have more access to start developing your players than like a football where there's a lot of equipment you need 53 guys the whole thing oh yeah it's You can play rugby almost anywhere. Go back to the basketball. Just go find, get a ball and find a hoop. You know, you find a field and get a ball. Yeah. You know, Fiji, they would all play without shoes.

They'd just go barefoot and play. Yeah, it's the same as soccer in that you don't need. You don't need much. It's much better in that regard. When you went to the Olympics, your nerves, was that a real thing? You know, compared to football, the way you feel before you run down on kickoff, was it heightened because you're representing your country? Was it different?

I think the biggest, the coolest thing that I experienced when I was down there was not related to playing. I think it was the opening ceremonies. I talk about that in my book. You know, you go down to a different continent and they have, so we're doing the opening ceremonies. You go into the biggest stadium in their country and it's completely full, 105,000. And they're just there to party and cheer you on. It's not even, there's no event. And they go through every country in the Olympics.

See the flags. And we're outside. It took two hours. We're waiting forever, but you hear them cheering, and then the United States comes and we come out and just this roar that you get. And it's just that hit me hard because it's like you're on a different continent in a country that speaks a completely different language than you. And they don't know any of us. But yet we hear the loudest roar for our country. And it just is like, that's just what you represent.

That's what you're coming from. You know, they named all these countries and stuff. And, yeah, people are supporting them. But, like, it's just different when you support the United States. And that was really awesome for me. I'd say that was a very cool experience I wasn't expecting. Yeah. But then, I don't know if you want to talk about that.

But then to go to the actual competition, you know, playing in the NFL, people always talking about that with me, like, were you nervous in front of all those people? But you know how it is, man? We get criticized so hard on the practice film. 30 minutes after practice that like it's the eye in the sky that gets you nervous about yeah like what's coach going to say about my one step that I took on this one play rather than you know a fan heckling you or cheering you whatever you don't even like I didn't even see them yeah because they condition you for that you know you're more worried about practice than you are you know

in the game you'd almost get more empathy from the coaches like yeah they get paid too you know it's tough out there on Sundays but in practice. practice, it's like, nah. So you just kind of get conditioned for that. So then when I went out there to the Olympics, you know, I'm more worried about like, how's my body feel? Am I ready to go? Like, I think I was so prepared for that. I think a lot of guys, though, that were on that team have never experienced that type of stuff. And it did get to some new for some people that the heightened level of the, this is the you're a salty vet at that point. Yeah, you had enough. So much shit. I had seen enough that I was like, I didn't care. I didn't care if we were. you're playing, you know, and at IMG with no one around versus All Blacks or if we were in the stadium at the Olympics, you know, you just get to a point where you want to do your best because that's it. And I've always been like that. You know, some people live for the crowd.

That just never was me. Right. What about the Olympic Village, man? Is it everything they say it is? I know you were probably not a single man at the time, but there were a lot of single people who were reportedly ready to mingle. in that Olympic Village. There's condoms flying everywhere.

Is that exaggerated? Do you remember? I don't know if you remember when I came back. Bill told me to speak to the team about my experience, and I was talking about that. I'm like, you know, I never found that pot of gold that was the condoms sitting out that they talked about. I never saw that.

You know, yeah, there's a lot of people there. I'm sure it probably got friskier towards the end after you did your competition. My dumb ass was like, oh, we play. in our competition. We're out. I stayed one day and I came back. Like, I'm going to come back to training camp and like, you know, see this guy. Like, what an idiot.

You heard you got. You got it came back. Biggest regret I have about the whole experience. I should have been like, oh, Bill, I'll be back in a week or two. Well, the flag. They made me run. They made me run about run. The flag ceremony, I wanted to ask you about that, because I watch it during the Olympics and stuff when all the countries come out and like, I'm doing the... We're on condoms, Kyle.

I'm doing the eyeball test. No, speaking of condoms, I do the eyeball test on all the the bodies. Men and women. There's a lot of good-looking dudes walking up there. Adonis is everywhere. It's like you're heightened. It's like heightened sense of like a bunch of alphas walking around. Yeah. Talking about that like sport removed. You're just walking around with size people up. The best athletes on the planet. Yeah. There's a respect level you have because you know that they're the best at what they do. A lot of head. And like, like you'll see something like the, we had the Olympic wrestler, little black dude. I can't think of

his name. Yeah. He was the nicest guy in the world, but he was a monster. And you're like, you know, He's just this little dude, but you're like, I'm not messing with this guy, right? But typically you walk next to somebody like that, and you're like, I'm doing. You know, but he just know there's somebody extraordinary. Everybody you're next to is extraordinary. And it's a really cool experience. I felt bad for like Michael Phelps though because he's so well known and he's there. And like, you know, he's on the bus.

He was on the bus with me to go up there and just like the other athletes that are there just bombarding him. And it's like he had to swim like the next day. And I'm like, man, like, and he had to carry the flag out. He had to do, like, a lot as, like, a captain. Did he carry a thousand gold medals from his previous. Yeah, that's got to be heavy. I took a leak next to him. Yeah?

Yeah, at the espies. You size them up? I'm not going to ask you. I didn't size them up. Speaking of Ghana. I didn't size them up. The lats on that thing. Yeah, God.

Yeah. No, but there's those types of people going around, the track runners that you know that are just electric. They just look fast. Yeah. Like, they bounce. around when they want. Yeah, yeah. So, but like, that was pretty cool to see, see those people, but it's a lot like the NFL. I mean, you, we're around it. Are the digs nice? Like, you know,

yeah, okay, so how shitty were the rooms? Because I remember, didn't they make a big deal about this, or was this in the Winter Olympics, where they were like, I'd rather sleep in a Lakeinta. Yeah, okay, so how bad was it? I'd rather sleep in a Lakeitha. Okay. So color that in. Chief, like, cardboard, cardboard beds? Arguably. It was like Cotty about us, you know, what was that, like 12 inches? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's 12. Like a, like a four-inch pad, you know, it was tough. The sleeping thing was tough.

The bed sucked. You know, I was talking about this before you guys got here. The construction workers, this is the rumor, so, you know, don't hold me to it. But like the construction workers, I heard, thought that they were working on the American building. so they poured concrete into the water pipes. And, like, it wasn't our building. It was actually the Australian. So their water didn't work in their whole, like a whole high-rise building.

So the construction workers didn't like y'all? I guess. And they were going to fuck you guys over, but they fucked over the Aussies. That's the take I got. Jeez. You know, so, like, they're doing stuff like that. The water wasn't clean. We had to take, you know, water bottles to, you know, toothbrush it and stuff.

You didn't want to drink the water. Yeah, because you're on vacation somewhere like that. Yeah, yeah. So that was tough. I mean, yeah, some of the buildings looked like they were still like trying to like finish it while we were there. It was, but it was, you know, the dig sucked, but the village was really cool. You know, they had their, the Olympic rings everywhere, the paths that you could walk through the buildings, like super cool. Some pools, it was, it would have been.

Besides sex, does anybody socializing? Yeah, they were. There was like a game room and a big place and like the food hall was nuts because you've got. the entire world in this one place so like they don't all eat cheeseburgers like that's right but you had like American cuisine it was crazy how you had all these different ethnicities and like the foods that they ate and like you could go to whatever when you wanted it was but you know all the Asians were over Asian food and like the Americans and like it was that was people didn't like the

American food too much or were there yeah I don't know I didn't pay attention too much but yeah it was a very cool cultural experience very cool talk talk to us about how you got started with rugby because you were it was early for you yeah super early i mean i was throwing a ball around probably six years old six seven you know like a little kid playing around my dad played rugby yeah and uh whatever my dad did i did we played a lot of sports we played you know i'm like to think i'm a fairly good squash player if my knees worked um played a lot of squash played basketball It's a great game. It's a great game.

It's a boxed, you know, rugby, football as a peewee, soccer. Yeah, I did everything, but rugby was his thing. And I got around it very early, and there weren't, there weren't, like, kids leagues and stuff, you know? So I start to play, and I'm kind of, like, good at it, but, like, there's no one for me to play again. So at, like, 13 years old, like, I'm ready to start playing some games. So my first ever game was in a B-side men's game against. like Dayton or something like that. And, you know, I just had to play with the men.

But, yeah, I was around it at a really young age and played with the men, so I got a lot better. It wasn't around a bunch of kids who didn't know how to play. So it really, I got skillful pretty young on. I was obviously a decent enough athlete. And then by 16, I had played in the sevens in the summer with the men's team in Columbus. against the other men's teams and nationals, which is kind of a big deal, because that's what selects the sevens team for the United States at the time. And I'm 16 years old in this tournament

with all men. And that's your first taste of life. And then I got invited to the men's sevens camp, because he saw how young I was, and he was like, we're going to just groom this guy. And so I'm at the men's camp in West Point, you know, 50, 60 dudes, some, you know, I'd say average age was probably 26, some ex-NFL players and he's this little 16 year old and uh but that those types of things made me a lot better but yeah at 16 i got an invite to a developmental camp for the new 19s and then i ended up making that team and then i went to my first junior world cup in 2006 in dubai yeah and you were 16 i was 16 and it was under 19s i probably turned 17 right before i was but i think i was the youngest player in the entire tournament and so that just experienced just practicing i didn't play a lot

but just practicing with our team and these really good players. The best in the United States made me a lot better. And then obviously I made the next Junior World Cup team that was in Ireland, and I was really good at that point, one of the better players. And then the next one in 2008, they changed it to U-20s. And then I played in that in Wales. And they were still older guys. Then I was about everybody's age.

But I was like a force. I think I played every minute of every game in that. that World Cup. So got really good with that. And then to transition my story, so those, that first junior World Cup I was in high school, the first two I was in high school,

senior year, went to Ireland, and I almost played football in my senior year. So I didn't play football in high school at all. I was kind of played basketball in my sophomore year. But then the, I'd like to see that tape. Then the rugby, yeah,

handles. Then the rugby kind of took off. And so I kind of focused on that. that at about 16. And I wanted to play football my senior year in high school. And then, you know, I talked with my dad about it. And I didn't really have aspirations to do anything. Just all my friends played. And I knew I could have been good at it. And every fucking guy with a set of eyeballs is asking you where you play football. Yeah, I got asked. I got asked, I got asked a lot. How can I get you to play for my team? I got asked a lot.

Ohio is it. Yeah, it's good football. So I got asked a lot just, but I was like, you know, I have a junior world cup in like the spring. So if I got hurt in football, like, I would, I was and I don't want to miss that. So I chose not to do it. My high school won the D-1, you know, state championship that year. That hurt. And I remember sitting in the stands watching that game, like, you know, drinking my beer or whatever.

Just like shit, everybody's all juiced. But anyways, chose not to do it. I played my final junior world cup, my freshman year at Ohio State. And then my sophomore year, I kind of was still playing rugby. And, you know, no offense to Ohio State or club. rugby but it's just you know I'm playing against the best players in the world we played against south africa 22 of their 26 man roster were already under contract yeah they're already pros and I'm you know I'm playing you're playing pee we ball in Ohio against these guys yeah I'm playing

I'm playing I'm playing club rugby at Ohio State and they're more worried about what they're going to do for the party after the game and I'm sitting here like yo like let's let's go let's fuck shit up you know and it just felt very much like me versus everybody you know and rugby you can't drop the ball forward you can't drop it because like that's called a knock on it's essentially like a forward pass the other team gets the ball and I would just like try to throw the softest pass the guys and they just would drop I would get I would get so frustrated and it just felt very much like I wouldn't want to pass because I'm like you're going to drop it so I'm just going to do this myself I try to kick it to myself and it just it wasn't playing against the best

in the world and I got frustrated and I put so much into it I'm like I don't know and it was kind of a perfect storm I'm out oh State, you know, I didn't play in my senior year. Everybody's telling me, you know, rugby players suck. And I was like, kind of had that itch. So I had a conversation with my dad, like, hey, man, I think this is what I want to do. I want to walk under the football team at Ohio State. And that was Tress.

Tress was there at the time. And so I had that conversation with my dad, and he was kind of like, yeah, let's do it. But if we're going to do it, like, no more rugby. Let's just give it everything you have. Rugby will always be there. And, you know, let's see what happens. And, you know, we had that conversation with the goal of making this to the NFL, not to just play for a lot of Ohio State.

You know, because if I could make it at Ohio State, I knew I could play in the NFL. And so that was kind of the goal, and that was the last conversation I had with him. You know, he, the next day was murdered at the junkyard. So that kind of, that was hard for me. Obviously, him and I, I talk about that in my book. I mean, my relationship with him wasn't like a typical. father-son relationship, him and I, you know, I'd put our relationship up against anybody. It was, I was the only child with him, and we did everything together, grew up in a junkyard,

and played all these sports with him. He was more than a father. He was my best friend. He was my rock, and then to lose him like that, like no one should lose anyone that way. And, you know, I talk about this in my book as well. My mom was a huge part. I was in a pretty bad place. I ended up dropping out of school for that quarter, and quarter system back then. And, You know, she, you know, a lot of, a lot, I knew some other kids that kind of were in a similar situation. They lost a parent or their dad was shitty and their mom kind of coddles them and it's okay and lets them do whatever they want. I'd say the biggest turning point in my life, because I was very easily could have gone down a different path. I probably wanted to.

And my mom was like, you know, in tears coming up to me saying, you know, Nate, your dad would not want to see this ruin your life. life and you need to live a life that he would be proud of. And, you know, that really changed my mindset. And it took a lot of strength for her to say that to me when she could have just said, you know, let him cry or let him sit and with his hood up in the room and figure it out on his own. But, you know, she had enough of that. And I'm so thankful for her for doing that. But that changed my mindset. And I kind of changed my mindset of one where I was feeling sorry for myself, feeling sorry for my dad, why me, mad at the world to, like, how grateful I was, like, how lucky was I to have a father figure like that who put that much time and energy into me,

who taught me character and how to be a man, you know, there's guys grow up with, without dads, or dads that are shitty and don't spend any time with them, or, you know, just aren't a part of their life. or just choose not to be with them. I was so fortunate, and I had more of a father in those 19 years than I did than most people do in a lifetime. And I just really changed my mindset to being one of grateful, and she was right, I need to do something that he would be proud of, and all the time and energy he put into me,

I need to make account for something. So I decided to, like, do it. And so I walked on to the football team about a month or two later, a month and a half later. And the book is titled Finish Strong because in his eulogy, that was kind of one of his things to me on the rowing workouts. He would spark me. Come on finish.

Finish strong. You're almost there. And then I got this wristband that said Finish Strong on it. And I talk about that as well. But, you know, that was kind of my message. I didn't talk to anybody for like, you know, a year and a half I was at Ohio State. And I was just like in my own world. But that seriousness of it, I wasn't on scholarship here.

to see what it's about. I wasn't, you know, trying to put a jersey on. I'm like, I'm going to fuck you guys up. Every chance I get, you know, every time we went on a field at a 6 a.m. workout where guys just woke up walking in to just make it through. I'm right. I'm like, I'm going to bury you because it was that serious to me. Through purpose.

Yeah, I was very driven. And, man, did my body change and did I figure it out? The most humbling experience I ever had was playing football, though, because no football in high school to Ohio State football. I didn't realize how much I didn't know. Yeah. You know, I'm like, whoa, there's a lot going on. Like cover two man to man, what?

I'm still working on that. You know, right? But that was a humbling experience, and I think I didn't really account for that, but I knew I was as fast and could tackle and do that stuff. So I was like, you know, special teams is why I gravitated towards it, It was like, just put me on kickoff, let me run down and tackle the guy.

If anybody gets in my way, blow him up or whatever, just like I had that drive and want to do it. And I didn't need to know the intricacies of offensive formations and checks and, you know, all that stuff. And I didn't know how to backpedal or anything. So I gravitated towards special teams. I don't think that was the route that I foresaw, but I realized, you know, there's plenty of guys that make it in the league playing special teams. And if that's how I got to do it, then that's how I got to do it. I think by my senior year, I probably should have been starting on defense. I'm a little biased.

But I only got three snaps of defense at Ohio State. So one of them was a sack. Nice. That slugging percentage is pretty good. Yeah, high. Win rate. But no, anyways, didn't play to Ohio State because at that point, you're a fifth year senior. I had a redshirt to get an extra year of eligibility.

I didn't know what was going on. You got this pipeline from Glendale and Cleveland coming to Ohio State. and these five-star recruits from all over the country, they don't want to see, you know, hey, why isn't our five-star recruit playing over this walk-on guy who's never played football? You know, it was almost more political in Ohio State than it was when I got to the league.

But anyways, it worked out. Special teams, you know, I just tried to really dominate, and I did good enough and had a really great pro day. And I think, you know, Bill gave me an opportunity. They drafted me, history. Is there any more of a Bill Belichick guy than Nate Ebner? You know Chris Hogan? Maybe. There's some guy from Rutgers maybe who plays lacrosse. Good news. The Thursday show we do with AMP will continue 430 every Thursday. The Greenlight team, Cowboy Reed, Facts, Kingston.

I'll pop through there sometimes. On AMP, you can interact with us really easily. There's a call-in button. We invite call-ins all the time. You can talk directly to us, ask us questions, ask us our favorite music. We might even play some. There's also a live chat during the show. If you have a question about a topic we're talking about, fired off in the chat, we'll answer. We're going to be doing what we've been doing all fall every Thursday at 430 on amp. Check us out.

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I want to ask you about your dad because I, you know, like, and I was always afraid to ask you this stuff because we, you know, we were tight, but, you know, like, and then I saw you wrote the book and I was like, okay. was it was it did you have to shed the anger to like move on because I feel like you know you lose your pops you know things happen tragedies happen but when it's when it's something like that like there's somebody to blame and I wonder how hard that was or how necessary it was to shed that part of it to move on I think that was extremely hard at the beginning when it had first happened you know i almost went to springfield because uh side story like i grew up chasing robbers first person i

ever tackled was a robber you know stealing from the junkyard and we would just go to the junkyard on either after hours on a weekday or on the weekends and there'd always be somebody stealing and when my dad was in a bad mood we'd go and he'd beat the shit out of people i mean he would beat the shit out of people probably saw him i shouldn't have been seeing a junkyard beating absolutely it's the worst It's the worst con. And then we'd let him run because they think they could run away. And we'd just, we wouldn't catch him right away. We'd let him run a little bit. Get him tired. Get him nice and tired. Sometimes they'd just stop running because they couldn't run anymore. And then he would wail on him or we'd catch them or he'd shoot him out one way. I'd tackle him and then he'd come in. It was just, you know, I just grew up in that. And he, you know, he just, he was a different breed. But I think I almost went to. down that path where I went there to go do that on my own. And I just think at first it was really hard to shed that. But I think, like I said, about my mom, that I changed my mindset.

And I decided that I was gonna have an attitude of gratitude, as corny as that sounds, but I was, I was so thankful for him. And, you know, I'm wasting time and energy worrying about the guy that did it and how it happened, if I could have done, you know, met him on a Thursday instead of meeting him on Wednesday when I met him for dinner that night, you know, it's wasted energy. And I really came to grips with that. And I realized, you know, as I was going through my journey, like, I'm doing what I need to be doing. And when I wrote

the book, the author wanted to talk about the guy that did it and say his name and all that. And I'm like, no, we're not saying his name. He's just not getting credit for anything. I'm not wasting an ounce of energy on him and any of that stuff. And I think that's just always been my mindset. And again, it really goes back to that conversation with my mom. And it was like a catalyst moment that just changed the way I thought. And since then, you know, yeah, you got to shed it. You got to stay strong. But, you know, ultimately, I feel like I'm spending my energy and my mind in the right place. Yeah. And with all the stuff you've done, Super Bowls, Olympics, like, was there a time where you were like, it would have been cool for him to see this?

I think definitely the first Super Bowl. I remember going out for warm-ups, and I was just, I couldn't stop thinking about that. Like, well, he would have thought about that. That and the Olympics was just, you know, the Olympics thing was as much for him as it was for me, you know. And I'm not really one to believe in destiny or, you know, this was supposed, you know. But, like, when you think about it, man, like the Olympics, like, rugby hadn't been in the Olympics since 1924. And then it just happens to come in in 2008, so I'm still young. We're not supposed to qualify.

But we do qualify. I just happen to grow up playing this sport my whole life. And now it's in the Olympics after almost 100 years. And I'm 26 or 28 years old in the prime of my athletic career. Like, how. how special did that come together for me and then you know I wasn't supposed to make the team and then I did and played well and all that and it's just like you know that that was that was as much for him as it was for me I would say but yeah man that that whole attitude was I just

can't think of a moment where switched more than when I talked to my mom's know your football career man you know obviously we were teammates in New England for a year and I continued to kind of follow your journey. And you guys had a little crossover because I know you're the same age and he almost went to Ohio State play football. It was him. I was close to committing with J.B. Shugarts,

Mike Adams and Mike Brewster. Yeah. Mike Brewster. And I was the fourth one, I guess. And we were all in linemen. I remember being there with Bowman and Tress and I was ready to commit. And then I got clocked at 96 miles an hour

in Cincinnati for a perfect. game event and then they were like you're going to play baseball and i didn't go play football and it's been fun to watch all those guys and yeah we were talking about mike adams earlier yeah uh you know jb shugards mike bruce or all these guys they've gone there separate ways but we all kind of you would have definitely got caught up in the tattoo you know who showed me around was alice boon on my i do was a whack job i remember calling my dad and be like i don't know if i'm cut out for this yeah yeah i think i'm a baseball guy yeah because i thought everybody was him yeah no Alex was one of a kind of.

What was that like when, because I used to give Laroniitis shit about this all the time because he had these tattoos and I'd be like, oh, you didn't pay for those. Yeah. Were you there when all that went down? That was the meat of my, you know, career. That senior year, that senior year for me, everybody got suspended. You know, Tress ended up leaving. We had an interim.

Fickle was the interim coach. He was doing great. He's doing great now, but I've never seen a man more stressed than that year. I mean, that was tough. All your best seniors are not playing. We lost, I think that was probably one of the worst seasons of Ohio's. They had a while, but we lost like four or five games by like four points or less. We just couldn't.

We could have been in a bowl game, but it just didn't work out for it. Sounds like life in the NFL. Yeah, it felt like an NFL. It felt like an NFL season. And you love Tressel? I absolutely love it. Because James loved them. So I got like a list of like the greatest character.

or people I've met in my entire life, like Jim Tressel is number one. And Matt Slater. Matt Slater. Hey, bro, I was about to say, where is Matt Slater? Matt Slater's, like, right below because, you know, because, because Jim, Jim, Trussell just, I've never heard him say a bad thing in his life.

And I don't know. They're neck and neck. Slate's not bad in a thousand on that. He's complained to me a couple times. Matt's had his moments. He's had his moment. I know Matt a little better, you know. Matt and I,

spend so much time together. You know, they'd let us go do our special teams meeting, and it was Matt and I, like, with Joe, you know, and Joe's just kind of starting to be a coordinator. You know, he was an assistant. His first year being an assistant in the NFL was my rookie year. So, I mean, I grew with Joe the whole time. And they lean on you guys.

They leaned on Matt and I a lot to really kind of say. They'd throw some stuff out there and not to transition this conversation. Matt is the greatest character. He's amazing. He's amazing. He's on the board of my nonprofit. And I always say if I had to drop my kids off in the blink of an eye and I had to leave for a year, he's going to Matt's house.

Oh, absolutely. You know, I just wouldn't even be nervous. Yeah, Matt, Matt's the man. But they would come out with these, like, sometimes, like, really outlandish schemes. And we'd sit in there, Joe and Cam or Joe and whoever the assistant was at the time. We want to do this. And I'd always be like, what? You know, like, because Matt was always like the spiritual kind of guy, our flag carrier,

give us the motivational speech where I was like the, we were very Batman and Robin-esque, and he was definitely Batman. But like I was always like the play caller, like kind of the brains of like what we're going to do in certain situations checks, making sure, you know, I'd get in guys' asses if they didn't know what they were doing like because I'm like, if you don't know what you're doing, you're going to fuck me up. Like I was very clear about that stuff. You were the center. Yeah, I guess.

You know, yeah. He had his hands up. He doesn't know, then I don't know. And if I don't know, the tackle doesn't know. And if he doesn't know, then the quarterback's crushed. Matt was just that, like, spiritual leader where I was, like, the analytical, I guess. Yeah. But so Joe would come in with something, and I'd be like, you know, like, what?

And Matt would always, he's just so non-confrontational. He'd always be like, yeah, I could see that. And that's when you know Matt doesn't like it. I could see that. He would never say no, but Matt would be like, yeah, I could see that, I could see that. Or, I see what you're saying. Looking up in a way. And then I'd look at him and I'd be like, Matt, honestly.

Like you, like this is what's going to happen, blah, blah, blah. And then this is going to happen. Right? And he goes, well, yeah. And then I'm like, Joe, we can't do this. You know, we can't do this. And it was so funny. Those, you know, those meetings with him, I spent more time with Matt than anybody in my entire career.

We spent more time together, learned a lot from him. I think we learned a lot from each other. We grew, you know, so much. I just tried to compete with him, and it made me a better player. I'm so thankful for him, absolutely. Is there anybody else around the league that doesn't get the recognition for special teams that you studied in your time in the league that you say, man, that guy did it right way? Mike Thomas is pretty good.

Mike Thomas has been pretty good. I played with Sheriff McManus. He was a really good special team around Chicago. number 27. Yeah. I mean, Maness was good. I remember him. Really good. I mean, there's a lot of guys throughout the league like that. You know, I think that's the majority of the league, not just as special teams, but a lot of positions outside of the number one wide receiver, the quarterback, and the running back or the defensive end that's getting paid. I mean, there's so many good players out there that just go unrecognized and it's not just special teams. It's, it's, you see it

in the line. You see it on the O line, I'm sure. People playing roles that are very, It's all over the place. If you know our names, we're fucking up. Usually, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a bad thing. What is the Patriot way, man? Open-ended question.

First thing that comes to mind is I really think about the things on the door going in. Do you remember? Fuck no. I think I do. And not because I want to. Do your job. Do your job. Work hard.

Okay. Put the team first. Be attentive. Uh-huh. and, you know, the going out the door, you know, speak for yourself and those things. Yeah. For yourself, right. I remember that.

Don't believe the hype. Don't feel the hype, all that stuff. Yeah. But those things going in, do your job, work hard, be attentive, and put the team first. If you went to New England and you did those things, you worked really hard, you didn't make, you weren't a me guy, you did what you had to do in certain situations. You were attentive throughout the meetings and the deep. details so you weren't messing up and you were doing those things it would work for you.

And I think there's no better example of that than Tom. I think it was a trickle-down effect. It was perfect that you had that type of culture that Bill was trying to set. But then you've got a guy like Tom Brady who's embodying that and is that. And I mean, Tom was there early. Tom knew his shit. Tom was out there practicing every day, working hard. And, you know, when you see a guy like that doing that, a guy like Bill preaching it,

and then you get a bunch of guys who buy into that, and I could name a bunch. Matt Slater is the Patriot Way. Julian was. He was a little wacky. Devin McCordy, Patrick Chung, Hightower, you know, like. Patty Chung. James White, Brandon Bolden. I mean, I could go down the list.

We got so many guys that bought in. I think that's why we were so good during that run. But to me, that is the Patriot Way. is that door going in, you know, it's working hard every day. It's trying to gain an edge just a little bit, whether it's to be about yourself or the opponent. We would just try to do a little more than the other team. Do a little more for yourself.

Working hard, those attention to details, because those details make the difference. I mean, you remember playing, like, we did a lot of stuff, but when we were all on board, it really worked. You know, I was with the Giants, and it just can get so simplified to the point where it's, like, And you have to simplify it because guys don't pay attention to the details enough. And then you just can't put enough scheme in to combat how good these teams are. And it's the difference. And, you know, you put the team first and you care about everybody around you.

It's just like this perfect, you know, breeding ground for a really good team. But again, that was a picture. It doesn't guarantee you anything you have to go out and execute and you have to have the best players too. Because, you know, since Tom, it's been harder for them. do think they maximize their talent in a lot of ways. Absolutely. That definitely still shows up. But, you know, like in your tenure, it was three Super Bowls.

Yeah. It was, you know, every year you were competing for a championship and you knew it. Four Super Bowl appearances lost to you guys. I told my ICA I didn't play in that one. Well, we would have lost as you played. Yeah, I think so since every single kick. Every single kickoff was a touchback and there was one punt. So I think I would have had a huge effect on that game.

Uh-huh. It was one pump for sure. That game was insane. Watching. Yeah. Yeah. Me and Jules were up in the box. What was Jules doing during that game in the box?

Was he just fucking pissed? Yeah, just, you know, him. This is the most emotional person I've ever met in my life. What about Walberg? He left early. Hold on. We're talking about the run real quick. We lost the Broncos.

We lost of the Broncos. Maybe not over time, but twice where they went to. to the Super Bowl. They lost to Seattle and they beat the Panthers. And those were two times or I arguably think we could have won. We lost to the Ravens in 2012. In the AFC Championship, they went on to win the Super Bowl. I think those three AFC championship losses plus, you know, they went to the Super Bowl the year before that against the Giants. I mean, you're just part of just like an unbelievable run and it was super special. And I think as someone who was a part of, you it so much you see why the success was there though you had good players you can't do without good

players yeah but then when you put the culture on top of it sweet and it's not no fun like you know like i know when when lane my buddy made a lot of noise saying it was no fun i always say this like i can't say for sure how much fun i would have because i was playing a little bit out of scheme and you know how that can affect your experience yeah like it's also buying in and i was happy to do that for a year but the things that i loved were the guys man yeah the teammates It's the people. And you know, you call it a great organization. I agree with you.

And I think, you know, every, it's funny, like New England kind of gets singled out as the place is not fun. There's plenty of places that aren't a lot of fun and they don't win. You know what? I was just going to say that. You know what's fun is winning. Is winning. Yeah.

I mean, when you're winning, it's super fun. I mean, you're a professional football player. The demand is high. Like, the expectations are high of you every day. It's going to be stressful. It's going to be stressful wherever you're at. You know, you might as well win and have a good. good dudes around you and you know you know not not to go out anybody who said New

England wasn't fun but in my opinion if you didn't have a good time there winning and you know part of that you're too much of a me guy it was more important that it was good for you yeah than it was for the team to win and you know one of bills things on the wall was you know mental toughness is when everything isn't right for you doing what's right for the team yes and I think you know to sit there and say the you know you that place is a no fun place. Yeah, we're serious about our work.

Here's what's not fun about the place. The climate. Yeah, but the lack of sunlight and the lack of windows in the building. Those were my biggest complaints. Big lack of windows. Big lack of windows. You come in, the sun isn't up yet, so it's pitch black, you're in a dark room, and then you go out for practice at like 11, 30, 12, and it's just like really bright,

and then you come back into darkness, and by 4 o'clock, the sun's down. Yeah, cats are getting seasonal, effective disorder. Yeah, we all had to do. take vitamin D. But that's the whole Eastern, you know, Chicago was like that too. So far north. You'd show up there was pitch black outside. You'd go home and you'd have to flashlight your way.

And you live in Foxborough. Nothing against Foxborough. No, yeah. Chicago was cool. But, you know, like I wasn't going to live in Boston. You think my asshole would have been so tight driving into work every day. Every time a light turned red. Like, come on, come on.

I got to get there. Because you don't want to be late for a bill meeting. I couldn't even live in Providence. because it was like 30 minutes of providence an hour to Boston. Yeah. When I was in New York, I mean, East Rutherford was the same way. That's rough. You're in Jersey, whatever, you know.

But, like, yeah, Colt McCoy was in New York City and driving all the way to, I'm like, you're a savage for that, you know. But, you know, that dude's awesome, by the way. Yeah, Colts the man. Cole is the absolute man. Colts the man. But, yeah, it's, you're not, you don't want to be late for a Bill Belichick meeting. Absolutely not.

No. Because he's going to find you. Yeah, and everybody's going to know it. There's not a lot of places that are these amazing cities, and you're not there for that. Yeah. You know, I'm sorry, but your lifespan is so short in this league. Like, you need to be in the facility, not going out. Well, we live in a great climate.

You know, like, Denver is pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, I can't name a lot that are just awesome. You think Green Bay is awesome? No, fuck no. But I will say this. I was in the city of Philly was really awesome. I'm in the minority on Green Bay because I think that the property values are probably really great.

You can give whatever you want along the lake. It's right there. It's a beautiful part of the country. It's a beautiful. So the property value is not great in that your money goes a long way. Yeah, yeah. It's not good. Property value, you know what I'm saying.

You want to go to economically. You live in Detroit. You can live like a king. All those guys live on the water and have like a five-minute drive. No traffic. As soon as the offseason hits, the weather's great in the summer. In Green Bay. They are huge fans.

But your gods in New England, too. It's like a college town, but for pro football. Yeah, when I was at Ohio State, I thought it would never get crazier than that. But the only place that could probably trump it was New England during all that. And it met more than or matched it for sure. They were crazy out there for the past. Which team was the best team you were on in New England? And as far as like, you know, if these teams all played each other.

I think it was the Super Bowl 51 team that you were on. Yeah. We lost four games that year and they were close. They were really close. Seattle was really close. We shouldn't have lost Tom. We shouldn't have lost the Buffalo. Was that the, did we lose the Philly that year and some crazy?

No, that was the year before I got there where Malcolm Jenkins picked Tom off in the rain. And we had all the special teams. They took one back to the house, punt return for the house. It was like a perfect storm. Yep. You weren't happy after that game. No, it was bad. But no, that 2016 year, I think.

I think we were, you know, at the end of it all, like 19 and four? Yeah, I think it was three, even. Three, yeah. I mean, you got a team that loses three games in the NFL. Like, it's tough. It's weird, though, because you know how, like, you can have this growth and this run at the end of the season, and the team can just be really, really good. I mean, like, when I think about the Super Bowl 53, like, when we played the, played Kansas

City in the UFC championship at Kansas City, went to overtime, won that game. Frank Clark jumped off sides. Yeah. We beat, we beat L.A. pretty handily, I thought, in the Super Bowl. And, like, man, talk about peeking at the right time. Like, the end of that year, we were a good football team. Yeah, we were a good football team. But as a whole, that 2016 team was nuts.

I mean, I just look at, like, you can really tell the depth of a team if you look at, like, the kickoff unit. Because you got a bunch of dogs on kickoff that aren't playing, starting on defense or offense. It's like, you know, Patrick Chong, definitely. McCordy's safeties me Slate a Brandon Bolden uh Jonathan Jones who's yeah who's a great player Jonathan he was so fast I mean I think Brandon was Brandon King as well like um B King yeah just as like it was like it was like you're you don't even care about who you're running down like you there's so many dogs out here like special teams you if you want to get a tackle you're competing with these dudes it wasn't like hey man like there were times in New York where it's like if I don't make the tackle like

that's who else is going to make it when we were on that. team it was like man you better bust your ass to get one because everybody else here is a dog so that team i would say who do you think i talked to devon about this like a week ago who do you think succeeds bill like at some point how long do you think bill wants to do this i would have guessed josh but he left obviously that would have been my guess but yeah you know i like to think josh was waiting maybe but like bill's going for that george hallis i think is that right the all time yeah he's got he's got to be he's only like or three seasons away from.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd like to look that up, but like, he's, he's got to be in. Who are the top three,

Matt? It's, what are the numbers? It's George and then Bill and Andy Reed. Don Chula, George and Belichick. Don has 328, George 318,

Bill's at 298. Oh, yeah. Okay. I mean, he needs like an all-time wins. He needs 30 wins. What about Andy? I don't want to say five years.

Sorry, that's disrespectful. He needs like three years, three and a half years. Yeah. Because you don't know what they're doing. Anyways, yeah, he's three years away from all time. I think in my mind, that's probably what Bill's thinking about.

But I don't know who they're, who's going to. Yeah. I can't, I couldn't even begin to guess that. His answer was Mayo or like a dark horse being Stevie B. Oh, could you imagine? Could you imagine? I love Steve. But yeah, it's not on everybody's bingo card.

Was it a culture shock? when you got to New York the way you kind of describe it, even though Joe was running things and that's your guy and he's a New England guy through and through, like was it just the expectation and the standard like a culture shock? I think it was absolutely a culture shock because you got a whole new group of people coming in telling you how they're going to do things and you're trying to get this buy-in from these guys that like don't understand why we do it this way and it's like seems like it's way too hard and way too much and it's just like it's so much easier to come into England after the track record that we had and Bill Belichick and Tom Brady and these guys

and you're like well I guess this is how they do it. Yeah. And you just shut your mouth and you fall fall in and then you learn. Okay, this is why we do it. But you know you got Joe who doesn't have any as a head coach, a whole new organization. We don't have any players that are like that. You know, Sequan and Daniel Jones are young. So they never really won like that.

So it's like it's just tough. to try to drive that home because it's, you know, you're trying to do it like New England did. And I think Joe did all the right things, but, you know, Bill has a perfect setup. It's not only does he have his track record to prove why he wants to do things, but he had the final say and everything. I mean, the one thing I admire them as an owner of Mr. Kraft is that he picked somebody to do a job that's lead a football team, and then he steps away and says that is their profession. I hired them to do it,

and I want them to do it the best that they can, and I'm not going to intervene like I know better because I don't. I'm hiring someone to do that. Hey, Meek Mill, I'd love to have Lamar on the team, but I got to talk to Bill first. That's a great example. That is a great example.

And I think it takes a lot of self-control. You've got to humble yourself a little bit, and I mean, I think that speaks to Mr. Kraft. That's what good character. And Bill has this perfect setup where, he's the head coach, but he's also part of, you know, who they're drafting as a GM, like, who's in that building. You know, we go to New York, and it's like Joe's trying to put this team together, that's this gritty team, and then you got this GM that just doesn't want to do it that way. And Gettleman?

Yeah, and it's just like at every turn, you know, Joe wants to go right, Gettelman wants to go left. And it was just like the effect that that had on everything. just like Joe was one hand tied behind his back because every decision was getting challenged. It's just like how are you trying to manage a football team when you can't even get along with a guy about just like, you know, administrative or personnel choices? And do you think you had a sense of that because how tight you were with Joe? Yeah, I mean, I was a team. I was a team captain. So you knew what he was trying to do and not able to do.

And I knew what he was trying to do from New England. And I would have, you know, Joe and I had a good relationship. So we talk a lot. And I'd go in, you know, I'm pretty blunt. Yeah. I'm like, why aren't we doing this? Yeah. And I'm like, Nate, like, I'm trying to, you know, or like, and it just, I, it just became very clear.

And then my last season with the Giants, I was pretty unhealthy. I tried, but, like, just the wheels fell off. And just the pushback on me not being able to play on somebody that was on, like, you know, they screwed me on my contract. Don't want to get into that. but like, you know, the fight that they had over me just being like, dude, my knees are blown out. Like I might, you know, I can't run down. I can't stop. And just to put me on IR or telling them I can't play, like there was a lot of fight there. And over what? What are we, like the guy's telling you you can't play? You know, look at my track record. I wasn't one like that.

I'm not saying that, right. You know, and just that was an example. When I see it, you know, and just that was an example. with someone like me, how hard that fight was for Joe, just as, you know, say, this guy's not, not, you know, we're going to put him on IR. No, we're not putting him on IR. He'll play in two weeks. It's like, just, you know, I just, those things, it's crazy. Yeah. Just, there was something like that at every turn. And I feel bad for him that that was his experience. I will say, Bill had some really good football. Yeah. We had culture. He kind of had a good setup where he could bring the people in that he wanted, but the football was really good. You know, we schemed up teams every, every week. It wasn't just great, just, we're going to do what we do. And different team

every week. Yeah. Different, like you would, I always heard patriots, oh yeah, they just do it the way they do it. But like, one thing I was impressed was how everything was tailored and you could kind of morph into a different team. Oh, we did. For sure. We absolutely did for sure. And, you know, you want to try to do that stuff. And then you realize, you got a bunch of young dudes that don't know how. You know, how to do it. We had to simplify a lot of stuff. And I just think, you know, that piece in New England, that Bill brought of just the football being really elite, the tactics, if you will, that was missing.

And then you're trying to drive this culture. And it just, it just didn't work. It feels like that's why a lot of assistance go somewhere else from New England and struggle because, like, well, we don't have this. the same setup you can't ask the same things and but that's what they grew up in and that's what they had success doing and you know i mean i just give so much credit to mr craft and bill for for creating that and they got the right people in the building and kept them around you know how i mean obviously matt slater's like the greatest of all time but you know he's old but you keep him

there because i mean he's a shining light of like this is how it's done like watch this guy Exemplary. He's 65 and he's still doing it. Yeah. You know, like that, you know, it's, it has to come from somebody. You can't just listen to some coach telling you how to do it. And then everybody just, okay, you know, coach is telling you do it. Well, you got Tom Brady, you got Matt Slater's. You got, you know, the ownership coming in talking about, you know, the culture that we want.

It's just, it was so cohesive. No, that's tough for the coaches and management, but I would imagine being the guy that's done it before. in New England at such a high level. You're the guy they point to and say, do it like him. And I would imagine that that's got two sides to it as well, socially and professionally, right? Yeah, because like then some guys might resent you. Man, fuck you, Nate. I don't want to do all that. You know what I mean?

Like, this is what we do. If guys are having a hard time and they're like, yo, this fucking this patriot way. You have to drag me up to hell. Yeah, but I was, I talked about that when it was like me and Slate. Slate would be like, yeah, man, I know it's hard. And like, but like, this is, you know, you're doing a great job

and, you know, that was Matt. And I'd be like, dude, fuck that. You want to stay in the league. Like, you need to do this right. And, like, I'm telling you this is how to do it. And you're very capable of doing it, but, like, you have to do it this way. And if you don't, like, they're just not going to keep you. And I can hug you and all that stuff and tell you're great.

But, like, you either want to do it this way and fall in line or not fall in line, but, like, do what's – techniques we implement. Do what's expected of you and fight to do it the right way. And you'll be here and you'll be a part of a great team. But if that's not for you, like, you – Like, you know, if I can't, and it got to a point with that with me, like, with how much, you know, the punt protection, for instance, like, we didn't give up a, like, we gave up, like, one block punt in, like, six or seven years. You know, and then, like, this is a pat on my own back, I guess, but the next year I left, they gave up three block points. But, like, I was very much like, I was very much like, if I can't trust this guy, because, like, I had a different feel.

I'm out there on the field with them. you know how quick like Bill said in a meeting like if you give up a block punt the percentage chance of losing is now 90% something really high so like you don't want to do it all the time watching games and you know if I'm out there and I'm like man I just like don't know if I can trust you I'm going to confront you about doing it the right way but at some point Joe's going to come to me and say what do you think about so-and-so on this specific thing and I'm not going to lie for you and I'm not going to lie for me because I have nothing. in it. I just want the best people so we don't give up a block point that are going to go down and try hard that are going to pay attention and do it right. And I think in a way that Joe gave me a lot of responsibility, but it also allowed me to be kind of a leader. I didn't see it as well. I saw it as like I could really take ownership of this unit for this team. Well, the hard thing is when you're on a team that's not used to that standard, you know, like you've been on great teams your whole life playing football. New York had to be a culture shock in a lot of ways. You know, for me, I played eight

years on a bad team. You know kind of everybody has a different standard on those teams. And it's hard as a captain, which I've been there and trying to get the best out of people. You know, you're trying to be a leader, but you also have to maintain a sense of like guys trust you and they fuck with you. And that's a tough position to be in when some of them who don't get it are getting the brunt end of the, you know, this is our standard. And Nate doesn't think you're trustworthy.

I mean, that's a tough deal to have to say. that and then like hey but the right guy yeah is gonna want to come in there and be like I see that this is the dude that I need to earn his trust like and I want to earn his trust so I'm gonna do what I have to do the wrong guy is gonna say man this dude this dude's a piece of shit he doesn't like me or whatever and it's like no I well okay you're me guy and yeah I don't trust you I'm sorry that's just what it is in New England you have the ability and you have a guy who has autonomy where he can discard those people and it becomes comes us, it's like self-selective, right?

Like, you know, we're going to find out who we can trust, and we're going to have all the people we can trust in the building, and the people you can't trust are going to go, but in New York, it's like if the GM's not willing, you're stuck with those guys. Then you're like, hey, that guy's not trustworthy. And guess what? He's still going to be there in a week.

And if he doesn't like you because you're on the other side of it, then, like, it just becomes a, that's where I see the burden. I will say, though, like, I really didn't care. if like a guy didn't like me or something. Like, I'll never see you again. You know, yeah. I'll just see you in the next 15 weeks. I got to run down on kickoff with you.

The line out the door for guys coming in to take your job is long. But yeah, that was a tough part because in New England, it's like these are the guys we have to work with. And like, you know, in that regard, it's like I kind of felt like I had ownership of that. And, you know, like Tom had ownership, obviously, the offense. Like if he didn't trust you, like, if Tom didn't trust you, like, you weren't going to be on the team. And I think, like, it was good that we had those things. Defensively, Devin McCordy doesn't trust the DB or Dante doesn't trust somebody to do something. Like, you know, like, we had those people in place.

You know, in New York, it was like kind of like, this guy can't get it done. And you're like, well, no, he's got to because it's all it is. Oh, we got. Yeah. And you just got to work with him and dumb it down. Maybe I got to call it away that I know he won't mess it up. And, you know, I had to adjust as a player in some regard. But, you know, at the end of the day, you just do the best you can

and try to get those guys to do it how you want them to do it. And I'm transparent. I have no emotion involved. I don't, I'm not vindictive. I don't care. I don't. It's not a personal. Yeah, it can't be.

I trust you or I don't. I can tell you why. And it's all on the field. And, but yeah, it was tough with what Joe had to go through. And it was just, yeah. Here's my last one for you, man. Were you surprised, excited, proud of Daniel Jones getting his fifth year option picked up? Are you excited when you watch Seekwon play?

Like you were with him as young players. What do you think about these guys? Yeah, I mean, they're both, like, awesome players. Yeah. And great dudes. Like, DJ's a great dude and Seekwon's a great dude. Seems like a great guy. Awesome, awesome people.

You know, Seekwon is such a specimen. I don't know that I've seen anyone as explosive, but also as fast with the size that he is. I mean, he's all a lower body. But to see him go through that ACL injury and then try to come back, you know, like, especially as a running back and you're not even a year out. Like, I knew he was always going to struggle that first year off of that. But then to see the year he just had, it's like, that's him, bro. That's him. And he's hungry.

I remember. That dude's a competitor, bro. And he's like, oh, you don't think I'm that guy? you don't think I'm that guy like okay and like that's how his mind works and to see that with his physical talent yeah and now he's healthy again like and he's learned probably from you know I got to stay within myself a little bit you know that's what I always think after I tore my ACL stay within yourself and awesome because he is the ultimate I think running back from a you know early down third down catch it out of the backfield you want to go downhill with him I mean I think he yeah

I think he's the full deal. So I'm so happy for him. And all, you know, I used to come on the cake. He's a great dude. DJ, great dude, super skillful. I mean, just, I mean, absolute rocket. You see what he's had to go through with the coaches and the different amount. And the amount of, just the amount of, damn.

But the amount of different things he's had to do outside of football. Yeah. You see how good he is in practice and in the games. but like, you know, to see him out of the year he had, Daibol just, he did it, he's done it right. Yeah, Daveal was in, was he in New England with you? Yeah, he's the man. I really liked him.

Because he was like a New England guy, but he was a little different. Yeah. And, you know, I hadn't been there. Well, he had his own personality, you know, and. Daniel doubled up to his quarterback coach is Mike Kafka, who was with Patrick Mahomes. We've talked about Mike Kafka. He's got some great guys.

He's like Andy Reid's, Underling. And that's got to be a comfort knowing you have two of the best minds and football helping you out. Absolutely. No, DJ is a really good player, and I think we finally got to see that. I think he's just fought so much stuff. You know, everybody wants to talk about,

well, this quarterback did this much stuff, and that's why he sucks. And it's like, man, like, man, you look at some of the play calling we had and some of those situations. Like, that's out of his hands. Some guys that are hurt or the scheme that we're using versus another scheme, like, it's, this is not just one player doing something better than the other.

There's so much that goes. into it. Your offense and line has to give you the time to protect it. The wide receiver has to get the separation and think the same way you do versus the defense that's out there. The offense has to call the right play versus what they think the defense is going to run. What's the situation? I mean, there's so many things involved for it to work, right? And to finally see Daniel's skill set come out because those things are aligning is awesome because he's extremely skillful. Yeah, you just got to watch out for that turf. Yeah, the turf monster.

turf monster that was so fucking funny yeah well Nate appreciate you man where can people get the book anywhere anywhere Amazon that's the easiest way that's the easiest way um Amazon or whatever are the people who are watching on you guys displaying the book like Vana white I'm yeah I'm not even in here it's just a camera on you have oh I have my own camera okay come on back over yeah there you go okay here we go it's strong yeah yeah one of the most jacked awesome fucking dudes I've ever met. The Leonitis is what they called him because he's a workout regiment.

But no, seriously, dude, I appreciate you, man. Great teammate and just, it's good to see you again. Yeah, you too, bro. It feels like yesterday. I does. But it's been fucking seven years almost. Don't say it. Yeah, dude. It's been gnarly, but no, I appreciate you having me.

I'm glad I could come by and this worked out. Oh, yeah, man. Sorry you had to deal with with Dev last week. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's tough. Did you see Bolden? get him a little bit. So they were on like good morning football. I think it was and

Dev had this whole intro about how Brandon wasn't invited to the combine and like Brandon didn't step in and say anything and dev's like you know you weren't invited to the combine he said it like two or three times and then Brandon was like actually dev I was invited to the combine and like there's my picture welcome to the media dev it's fucking hard people call you on I weirdly liked that. I don't know why, but Bolton's hilarious. It's a classic Bolton thing to do. But no, that's, yeah, Dev's the man.

We talked about it, you know, just some really great people. You know, there's a bunch of dushy guys that you come across, but, man, we had some good ones. And even more solid dudes than rugby, we've come to find out today. So that's what we do. I would just say, we need to hang out more rugby. The solid, the solid dudes in football are equally as solid as the rugby dudes. There's just more of.

There's less douche. There's less douchey dudes. I love that. Yeah. Well, hey, we need to start a team. Yeah. Fuck softball. Nate Ebner, everybody.

Appreciate you, bud. Yeah. No worries, guys. Thanks for having me.