Green Light with Chris Long - Ndamukong Suh On NFL Career, Financial Literacy & Advice For Jalen Carter

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

Ndamukong Suh! One of the NFL's most feared defenders, Chris and Ndamukong talk financial literacy, retirement and life after football, talking with Roger Goodell and Warren Buffett, advice for Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis, playing in THREE Super Bowls and facing Kyle Long twice a year in the NFC North! Incredible chat with the tremendous Ndamukong Suh! (00:00:00) - Intro (00:02:07) - Retirement & Life After Football (00:07:00) - Financial Literacy (00:12:05) - Being The NFL's Villain (00:27:08) - Super Bowl Memories (00:37:48) - Kyle Vanden Bosch (00:44:20) - Playing with Dan Campbell & Kelvin Sheppard (00:46:30) - Contract Negotiations (00:56:35) - NIL (01:00:55) - Warren Buffett Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ Also, check out our paddling partners at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Appomattox River Company ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. Green Light's ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where you can catch all the latest GL action: Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have my own voice now and I can speak on that and I can speak my truth versus somebody else trying to speak my truth for me because they're mostly going to excuse my language. F it up. Like he was one of the best guys to go against because it was blood, sweat, ears, fists, elbows, anything and everything to stop each other. I listened to the message says Roger Goodell gave me a call back, we need a chance. And I was like, oh, crap. Am I in really that much trouble that the commissioners?

calling me. There's a special number that I call that he picks up, that he makes sure he's there. It's so cool, man. Welcome to the Green Light Podcast. Thank you for being here. It's a tremendous interview on a Wednesday. Chris and Indomicon Sue chop it up, talk his NFL career, being the NFL's billing, getting to frequently talk with Warren Buffett, financial literacy, and playing Kyle Long, and one of the best battles in the NFC North in the mid-2010s. Enjoy the episode.

Make sure to come back Thursday for Stanford Steve's gambling picks. And Friday for our NFL previews. We will see you then. I want to welcome to the show, one of the most feared defensive players from my era of football, all decade team, all everything, all pro, pro bowl million times, scared people shitless. Now my buddy, who we hung out with at the Super Bowl in Domican's suit. What's up, dude? Big dog, how are you, man? Good to see you. It's great seeing you. We were just trading notes about, you know, our post-football lives and how exhausting that can be, at least on my end. How are you doing? Are you hitting your stride in the media and that sort of thing?

I definitely am, man. It's been crazy. I do like these focal points of my life once a year. And this year, like, it's been crazy. Media has taken over close to 50% of my time between Sky Sports and my podcast with New York Times Athletic and just some of my own stuff that I've been diving into myself on the financial literacy side of things. So my own channels, like it's consuming a lot of my time and energy, but I'm enjoying it. So it's fun. And I get to be home when I'm doing. and stuff, but also on the road and fun, exciting places as well. So I'm getting ready to be, I was just mentioning head over to the UK. So all these London and Ireland games that are getting ready to happen. Do you find yourself as a guy who has trouble sitting still? For sure. There's, it's like a sickness, but a good sickness of, like, I mean, I'm a busy body. I'm moving left and right. Like, I don't even know where the summer went. Like, I have so many different projects going on, traveling with the family on vacations, but also doing work. And it's just like, yeah, it's like your Energizer buddy that has no off button. And if the off button, it goes to like slow down,

but it's still like moving at like 20 miles an hour versus 100 miles an hour. Yeah, even the off season for me, I'm like, my phone's blowing up. I got this project, that project. I want to, you know, you're a renaissance man, dude. That's what I've, what I've realized about you. But also, you know, I think that's an important question to ask guys in retirement because I was always afraid of retirement. I was afraid of it on one end, but then as it drew closer, I got really excited about it. I don't know if you kind of shared that sentiment where it was like, man, like, what am I going to do? But also like for the first time of my life, what am I going to do? Yeah. No, it's interesting to you say that, though, because I'll just be frank, there's a morning

period. And I'm curious to ask you this question, if you went through a morning period of saying, man, my identity was so much tied to football and sports just in general. And like I mourned not being in the locker room, going out on Sundays, going out on Monday nights, going out on Sunday nights, and having those moments. But being in media, me being on the sideline for Sky Sports or I was up in the stadium the other day for week one, jets and Steelers. And I sent my boy videos like, you better watch watch yourself because, you know, I was there, Darius Slay. He's like, man, what are you doing here? I'm like, I'm calling the game and messing with you and whatnot. And so you still get that when you're in the media space, but also at the same time.

It's like, I also have the freedom. Like, I don't have to be at the facility 5 a.m. to 5 p.m. And then fighting with my coaches and saying, hey, man, I'm leaving at noon. Like, you guys are going to practice. I'm going to go do treatment. And then I'm going to go do some other business stuff. So it's having something to roll into, which has been amazing at the same time. I get to spend more time with my family as well, which is super important with my

boys being four years old now so that's huge man to to have control over your life you know where and and i got real accustomed you asked was there a morning period for me there certainly was but i think sometimes you don't even realize your morning yeah you know what i'm saying like for me being a workaholic for sure and and you know it's a part of coping though it is a part of coping and it's also like it's all you know like me my my whole identity as a player was do everything i humanly can do between monday and sunday to try to get a little advantage to make one big play you know you make one big play a game you know for you you were making four or five but if i could make my one big play a game like you had a chance to to go where you wanted to go and um it's i i approach

this chapter with the same kind of obsessive nature but the the the biggest thing I've had to learn post-retirement was how to let go of that a little bit. You know, it's almost you, you, if you're working from a place of being paranoid, which is kind of what being in the NFL is, it's not as healthy post-football, if that makes sense. And I would say, I'd be willing to bet you didn't let go of it. You just channeled it in a different way. So like your podcast now, like all the creative like, man, shoot, I was there in New Orleans with you guys and your guys' whole setup, like the Airbnb, the pit over there with the fire

master's doing the gator like you got all these deals left and right so you've competed to say hey i was going to go get sacks which you got plenty of those in philly and whatnot but then instead of getting sacks i'm getting this great deal with this company this beer company this food company this grill company all these different things so that's your that's your excitement of you having that success and whatnot and so it's just rechanneling it from that standpoint and it just looks a little bit different but it's the same mindset i wonder if it's the same for you because the one thing is like with success in the media comes more eyeballs and people who you've never met, strangers on the internet talking shit, you know, second guessing you, you know,

and more than anything like, the better I do at this, the more well known I am. And that's not why I got into it. So I wonder if you kind of struggle with with that at all where it's like, you know, the better you do at your podcast or at Sky Sports like you're going to be famous. And, you know, I wonder if that's something that like, I don't know that there's a tension and intertension with you ever. Yeah, so there's definitely a tension there because I'm naturally an introvert. And I've only embraced being a little bit of an extrovert or being okay with being known and having to, like,

because a lot of people would be like, I love being known. I love doing these different things. I was fortunate enough to play football at a high level as were used. So we were known on our teams, our cities, the states and across the country from that standpoint. I don't, that doesn't fulfill me. What fulfills me is when I had my teammate, Dominic Ryola, reach out to me and say, man, I watch your podcast episode. And guess what? Like, I need to connect with you because of Dylan, my son and what he's about to go through at Nebraska being the number one quarterback there, getting all these deals, all these different things.

We need to set him up. And I don't have the expertise to do it. But I know you can help me as my little brother and your nephew. You come take care of your nephew. And he's not going to listen to me. He wants to go buy a Rolex or buy a. AP, but if you tell him no, because he knows that you can do it, like, why are you not wearing that? Why are you wearing an Apple watch and whatnot? So those are the things that was like, that's why I got

into the media space to also be able to say, hey, I have my own voice now and I can speak on that and I can speak my truth versus somebody else trying to speak my truth for me because they're most likely going to excuse my language, F it up. Yeah, no question. I think the financial literacy thing is huge because hand up, you know, for whatever reason, I'm just not that financially literate. I am 40 years old and I'm looking at you who's kind of taking the bull by the horns since, I don't know if it was meeting Warren Buffett or what it was for you, but like, were you always inclined to think about, you know, how to take care of your money, how to grow your money, how to get those little edges?

Man, I was always what, it was fear, to be honest with, that got me so much into it. And then I got lucky with different relationships. But you hear all these stories of going into pro, making all this money. And then you come out and you're an MC Hammer where you don't have any. and you've got to start all over again. You know, I never wanted to have that. And it's like I have generational wealth now to be able to not only take care of my immediate family of my mom, my dad, my sisters, all these different things, but also my kids,

my wife's family, and all these different things. How can I set people up, not enable them, but set them up to have success off of leveraging what I've been able to create. And I didn't create this by myself. All these people helped me create this. My mom, my dad, my wife, my sisters, all these different people from that. standpoint. So yes, Warren Buffett was one, but the real person that really got me into the bug was Joe Mogli. He was the chairman of TD Ameritray. He was a football coach as well at Nebraska as an

interim. And then he ended up going off from being at Coastal Carolina. But he took me in his office right after my senior year and I just finished. I was graduating and I was getting ready to do some grad classes that spring and I was training. Took me to his office in Omaha and showed me his budget. And I'm like, wow, you spend like $50, $60,000 a month. And you've got all these houses and like all these different things. Like I'm showing this not to be impressive. I'm showing you because this is going to be your life. And I was like, there's no way.

I'm in Lincoln, Nebraska. I spend $1,500 on rent and my HOA fees and all these different things. And he was like, trust me, like you're going to grow and you're going to understand where all this comes. And I just want you to see this template. You can take a blank sheet of a copy of it. I'll give you one. but I want you to see my actual one and I still use that crazy.

I still use that template to this day every single year. I go back through that budget to add up all my stuff. Things have moved and shift because I got kids and stuff. He doesn't have kids or he doesn't have to deal with his kids anymore. So his budget was a little different at that time. So those are the things like how I got that bug and then wanting to get that information and not just hold it. I want to pass it along.

Yeah. Well, you're doing a great job of it. I do want to circle back to your new podcast, no free lunch and that sort of thing. but, you know, just being a football podcast, you know, it's so fucking funny because I could have you on here for 90 minutes talking about finance and just the off-the-field stuff. But people want to know about the guy inside the helmet naturally. And for me, I mean, I didn't know you. You came on a visit. I think you visited St. Louis in 10, you know, and that would have been a lot of fucking fun.

They wanted a quarterback for some reason. They always wanted a quarterback. But you, man, you would have fit in real good with our group. And we loved watching you play. And I just wonder, like, I've heard you talk about this, like the NFL needing a villain. And you filling that role maybe a little bit willingly. Do you ever think it's fucked up that people kind of, they categorize you like that when they've never met you? And in the NFL, there's guys that have done terrible shit off the field for eons.

and we embrace them, but you because whether you meant to or not, we'll talk about that, did some things that maybe were a little over the line. But to me, that just doesn't make sense, you know, like. I mean, I think you're my best advocate at the end of the day, and people like you are my best advocate because, one, if I'm not pissing you off as an offense and as a fan, because I'm destroying or I'm smacking the hell out of your quarterback or you're running back or your offense alignment or whatever,

that may that person is that's in my way to creating success and winning a game, I'm not doing my job. So without question, I think there was bias against me. Definitely coined and understood later on in my career. And I think Phil Knight was probably the best person to when I did have that incident in 2011, which I lost my cool. I can admit that. But there was a lot that led up to that and why that guy got that particular treatment for him punching me in my face. And then I had to put his head into the ground a couple of times. But ultimately, it was an opportunity for me to embrace it and also go through my career and say, hey, I'm going to continue to be this villain.

But I'm not going to, it's not going to translate to what my character is off the field and who I'm as a human being. But between these white lines, you are not to like me. And especially if you're on the other side and wearing a different. color jersey from that standpoint because I think the best compliment you just said it I would have fit in great with you guys in St. Louis or Philly or wherever it may be. All of my teammates like I just got text messages yesterday. Hey man, one of my old teams, the linebacker, old school dude, they can probably figure it out. He texted man, you want to come back and play three techniques. I was like

one, I'm probably too expensive for you guys right now this day and age and two I'm only practicing once a week. So coach is probably not going to be happy with that. And he knows. already knows how I roll. I think I know who it is. Did they play last night? They didn't play last night. They played on Sunday afternoon. They played at home. So I'll let you figure that one at. Golly. Okay. I happen to win a championship with that. Oh, okay. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, maybe they just lost a young, talented defensive tackle. Man, you, you, you, because this is really illuminating, you know, for people to hear you talk and like sit down with you. I'd never really like hung out with you.

And then at the Super Bowl is the funniest thing because you, Vita, myself, my buddy Nate, Bo Allen, we're all sitting in the back by the pool just shooting the shit. And there's just so much depth, you know, when it comes to your interests, when it comes to the way you conduct yourself, like you're just so soft-spoken in a lot of ways. But like there's this preconceived notion of who you are because of the way you played the game. And the way you played the game is you played the game, guys that we celebrated for decades. For sure.

And paid homage to them. And paid homage to him. It's like the Miles Garrett thing where Miles hit Mason Rudolph with the helmet and we acted like we'd never seen that happen ever, ever in sports. We'd never seen. And he was the worst guy in the world and he should never be able to play again. And, you know, you rewind 10, 20 years, like five years. We've seen that happen in training camp.

You know, so it's just. Aaron Donald did it. Like everybody's had an incident in some form or fashion. It's just whether you want to paint them as the villain forever or not. And it's funny that you even bring up that with Miles Garrett. Like I totally forgot about that because, again, it was this much of his career. Yes. Not even an inch.

It was like a centimeter of his career. And he shouldn't be defined by that. Like he's done way more for the game than that particular incident. Yes, of course. He made a mistake. No question. should have been punished for it as as should everybody else should if they're in that situation but don't let that define that man what was it what was the biggest fine you got hit with and did you

have an interesting relationship with was it jean upshot at the time no so it was uh my my relationship was with uh the commissioner they got they just they skip the normal formalities and they fucking the head man it was it was it was i got a call from from a New York number one day. This was, I forgot what year it was. I think it might have been 2012. And I didn't answer. And I listened to the message says,

Roger Goodell gave me a call back and you get a chance. And I was like, oh, crap. Am I in really that much trouble that the commission is calling me? And so now we're on speed out. We talk about stuff all the time. And I was just, I was just texting him the other day because we're going to try and connect in London while we're both out there.

But like, yeah, so I didn't have to deal with any of the officers. I was straight to the commission, straight to the principal's office. This is your punishment, bro. And let's try and clean this up. Like, I like you. You're great for the game, but we got to stick within this player safety side of things. And some of these things are, and just to be frank, which I always appreciated about him, it's like, there's going to be a higher microscope on you because everybody's seen you in the past.

And so I have to be harder on you. And honestly, my mom taught me that. It was like, you're a bigger kid. You're going to have different rules that we're going to go against you, whatever it is. And that's also, that's a blessing and a curse at the same time. So take that high praise, but you got to be on your piece and cues. Were you always the biggest kid? Yeah, man.

I was a baby. I was 10, six. Come out, boom. So bless my mom's heart. And then, like, I've always just been a big kid, man. And my boys, like, I'm looking at them now. And like, we just had people over at our house the other day or last night. And they're like super shy around people when they first meet them.

But they think they're like seven and eight. They're only four because they're so big. I know what you mean. And people will be like, why didn't your kid, you know, talk as much or whatever? I'm like, he's two. You know, like you think he's five. He's, you know, I. So I and I got a brother, obviously, Kyle, who you banged heads with, you know, who's

always been a big good. And you guys had some great battles. And that was my lens into watching you a lot because Kyle, when they drafted him, they were like, hey, we're going to try to help you solve the Indomacan Sioux problem. And he was like, oh, fuck. You know, it's like basically like he's, he's storming the beach in Normandy. They're like, good luck. You know, so he, you know, he really took that to heart and I loved watching y'all's battles. And he was a big physical player. And you were a physical player. My favorite thing about that Super Bowl deal was Kyle walks, walks into the backyard and we're all sitting there and I'm watching you guys tap up. And I don't think you've really hung out since those battles or spoken in person. But to me, it was like, it was such a cool

moment because that's what our game is about. You know, ultimately, if we can respect each other, try to kill each other for three hours on Sunday. But at the end of the day if we respect each other that's what the brotherhood of the NFL is about and i just that was a really cool moment seeing y'all get together with all that shit behind you um talk about those battles a little bit man between kyle marshal yonda Leonard davis and i mean i'd probably throw a couple other guys in there like he was one of the best guys to go against because it was blood sweat tears fists, elbows, like anything and everything to stop each other on both sides. But there was just this inherent, like, respect for each other.

And like the only like connectivity that we had outside of us meeting that time this past year in New Orleans was us following each other on Instagram. Like I saw he was following me because it happened to his page randomly came across my, my page. And I was like, oh, my guy, Kyle was following me. Let me hit him back. And like that was our only, but it was just a mutual respect there between each other. And then like it was like we were best friends that first time meeting and just talking.

It's like being able to relive those those battles because we didn't really like talk shit, excuse me, our language between each other. It was just like, I'm at your neck and I know you're at mine. And we had nothing dirty, nothing in that nature. But if I'm going to get you, I'm going to get you and vice versa. If he can get me even try and dump me. but we weren't trying to hurt anything but I love going against him like it was it was a pain in the ass and sore games uh sore after those games but like it was fun to go against each other for sure guys didn't make the mistake of talking shit to you did they oh for sure like Taylor

lewan who played for I'm sure you beat him into the pulp a couple of times but no because I was the left then you know I stayed over yeah but uh but yeah lewan yeah he talks shit to you all the time and his teammates would be like, bro, shut hell up. Like, don't wake him up. Don't piss him off because you get to see him maybe five or ten times during the game. And so, like, there'd be a handful of guys that would do it. And, like, I knew what they were trying to do, trying to get me out my game.

But ultimately, it was like, I also had a bunch of young pups as I got older that would chirp back for me and we would just have fun and play with it. So you just touched on something interesting, the strategy of let me get this guy off his game. You know, we saw, and obviously you spent time in Philly. I'm very close with those guys. And I don't know Jalen Carter as well, but I think he's fantastic. I think he's got his ceiling so fucking high. But you see, the first thing we see this year is him losing his cool and Dax sitting on the ground.

And, you know, I'm thinking at least 30% of that is bait him. For sure. What would you tell a young player like a Jalen Carter about trying to bottle that up? Man, it's funny. Somebody asked me the other day about this. And my heart of hearts would have been like, Jalen, man, take that one on the chin. But then two series later, three series later, you go ahead, clean hit, put that elbow right in his ribs. And then get on, get up off of him, push on his chest.

It's like, are you sure you really want to start this smoke? And that's how you're being creative about it. But also, you're doing it within the white lines and within the rules. So that's where you've got to teach a young guy like that to like you can't react right away. And you really get them back where it truthfully hurts within the, again, within the rules of the game, within the white lines and all these different particular pieces. And I think that's just maturity. And I was at camp earlier this year watching them and doing some stuff with Sky Sports.

But man, he is so talented and so raw. And it's just a matter of time. Like if he takes that same dedication that Jordan Davis did when I was there with Jordan Davis and seeing his crazy raw talent. And I told him like Jordan, man, I was proud of you. And I told him this when I was there. I was proud of you, man. You lost that weight that we talked about back in the day. And you're trimmed up.

You're focusing. You're learning to use your hands. Like this kid was just straight shoulders. Like I was in high school. straight shoulders into because he's 350 pounds and nobody's going to stop that never had to use his hands yet exactly but then you see him scoop and score bending and doing all these different things it's like man it's like just these little conversations and that's where i think a guy like you a guy like fletched and like bg like being around there and i'm happy to do it because i feel like i'm a part of the philly family as well even though it's only for six months yeah but that's a real thing yeah but it's like man having those conversations and being able to like man just hit you me on the line. Like, let's talk about it, but I don't have any connectivity to him other than me watching him play. So it'd be interesting to see, though. Well, you touched on something. I mean, like, I loved at the end of my career being a vet to younger guys.

I mean, like, that was one of my favorite things, you know, where maybe you're not the same player you are when you're 24, 25, 26 years old, but you're that grizzled vet and the young guys respect you and they come to you for advice. And, you know, I'm still watching Josh Sweat play. And that was my rookie, you know, like, you'll tell you. You. You'll tell you. he goes, Chris was the first guy that believed in me. And so when I see him get that bag, I call him and I say, I need 10%. Man, it's crazy, though, you say that because Milton Williams, who just got a huge bag to play detackle, we were all together in Philly.

And Milton, like, you could see his tibbingness towards me. He was like, man, bro, I didn't even know how to approach you. And I'm like, Milton, bro. Like, I'm not coming in here other than to try and win a championship. I don't care that I'm a backup. up. I don't, none of that bothers me, bro. I'm all pro pro ball, all those different things. That's cool. And I've already won a championship. I want to get a second one so my kids don't have to fight over one, which I got to do now. But, bro, I'm here to help you. Like, I'll, you go get snaps. Go get these different things. I'm going to teach you all these different things. And so once he saw that and he saw that like, yo, I'm, I'm not here to like take anything from you other than to advance you because the better you are, the better off I am. And that says a collective group. So, then we can go hopefully win this championship. And so it was super interesting to see like how those zoos started to open up and realize it.

And then it goes to that preconceived notions of like people don't realize what your character is really like until they actually get to meet you and spend time with you. Which that's what I tell people, man. Don't, don't judge me until you get to actually get to know me and have a conversation with me. Okay, welcome to the Greenlight podcast presented by BetMGM. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code Greenlight and you'll get up to a a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Just download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code Greenlight to deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. If that bet loses, you will receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets when using bonus code Greenlight at signup.

Then get access to second chance promos, odds, boost, tokens, same game parlayes, bet MGM original bets, and so much more. bet MGM make it legendary you got to play in three Super Bowls um you got to play in the uh well we'll start with the Eagles Super Bowl where you guys go play the Chiefs and i guess the thing that that I'm curious about is well let me back up there's three Super Bowls three different teams so you're on the Rams when they play the Patriots you're on the Eagles when they play the Chiefs you're on the bucks when they play the Chiefs did the approaches or organizationally to that big game strike you as different? And what were the mindsets or the do's and don'ts?

Preparing for a Super Bowl, having seen three different, very unique organizations. I would say all three of them were different, especially the COVID one with Tampa just because it was COVID time. It was just an oddball. Like I was swabbing in my brain for COVID. drops before I'm playing the game and stuff like that. But so outside of that, like I would say every single organization was different in how they approached it. LA, like for me as an individual, like it was kind of free reign of kind of whatever

we wanted to do and everybody being super comfortable, bringing all the families, doing all those different things. And crazy enough, like COVID was a great situation from that standpoint. I didn't have to worry about bringing family out and doing it. all those different things and buying a billion tickets, which I did in the first game. Not saying it was a distraction, but I got to be laser focused on the game and my craft and what I needed to do, which I think was great for our team and what we needed to do. Not saying that we were distracted because of that when we played in L.A., but I also think

we got outcoached and there's some other different things that happened during that Super Bowl. And then, I mean, Philly, man, I think they had the best combination of both of those. We had that discipline, that focus, but we're also, A, we also want you to understand you need to enjoy your families and do these different things. But when it's time to go do business, lock in, focus, do all these different things. And so that approach of being able to have fun, get everything done the week before and then just refine stuff when we're there, but also being able to spend time with your families. And I was fortunate, man, I didn't have to stay at the hotel. I went to spend, I run to the house in AZ, spend time. My family said, my coach was just like, be on time, make sure you're good.

I know you're renting a car and all those different things, but all I ask is for you to be on time and be at workout and we need you to be there, your vet. So those are the types of things that I think when you have quality coaching and you can trust your players, you can have those special opportunities to grow as an overall team. Did you sense that, you know, how D coordinators can be kind of the scariest person in the building leading up to a big game? And you're getting ready to play Mahomes and two of them and Brady and one of them. Do you feel like there's a fear in those two weeks that kind of, you know, that exists in the building when you're getting ready to play a Brady or a Mahomes? Man, I remember playing going against Brady for sure. Joe Barry is probably, he wasn't our defensive coordinator. He was our linebackers coach.

I forgot our D.C. It was Wade Phillips. Joe Barry was the best, man. Like, best coach. He was, like, on top of everything. Voisterous, all these different things. Got us definitely lined up in where we needed to be. And I think that's why we were at where we were

and being able to hold them to 13 points, which we should have easily won that game. And honestly, again, this is just my opinion. We got our coached on the offense. side of the ball and we didn't stay true to where we had success earlier on in that playoff where we had 200 plus rushing yards on Dallas and 150 against New Orleans. And then we just thought we were just going to go air it out against Belichick and company and that wasn't going to be the case.

And that didn't happen. And obviously we lost. But then you turn around and you go to a winning Super Bowl, like where I give all the credit to bowls. He had the understanding of they kicked our butt earlier on in that year. We need to do something different. So we played Tampa 2. And I told him, it's like, man, trust us up front. We will shut down this run. And you guys got to cover these receivers and take away the first read. And then it's on us to sack that quarterback and get him chasing sideline to sideline. And that's what we were able to do. And so when I had that vision of

understanding that's what we needed to do as well when we played against Philly in the old Philly versus KC. Same mindset, but for whatever reason, we just got away from our game plan. And again, we got outcoached on the defensive side of the ball with some creative stuff that Andy Reid did. I thought the surface really affected the outcome of that game. I'm not saying, you know, like this in, oh, Philly should have won it, like Casey won it fair and square. But I thought the surface was something that at least analysts and fans were talking about a great deal. Yeah, it was definitely a part of it.

But we knew that post-half-time. And you had plenty of time to adjust and adapt to those different things. And I don't know if you go through this, but at least when I played on terrible services, being in Chicago, like late in the year. Change your spikes, yeah. Change your spikes, and you change a little bit of way you play. You're a little bit more heavy-footed and full-foot versus playing on the edge where you know, hey, I got good turf.

I can bend it and dip and do it. I'm changing the way I'm rushing and doing some different things. just inherently because I don't want to slip and bust my ankle or bust my knee open because I'm playing on the edges of my cleats. So that's where it's like, yes, it's an issue, but also at the same time, you got to be an elite athlete and adjust and adapt to that. That's why I thought it was more of out-coaching and us changing our game plan versus sticking to what got us there. You meant, you know, the Tampa Super Bowl and the vibe there. And, you know, that just ended up being a, hey, the D-line took the game over Kansas City,

had some injuries and I don't know if there's a point in that week where you realize I know you said you went to bowls but is there a point in the week where you realize hey we got these fucking guys no question man I would say watching film probably that last week on that Wednesday there's a because we'd already installed and done that the week before but just looking at their injury report and you didn't want to say it but you felt it and you saw it we don't deserve to win this game if we don't destroy this offensive line. And it's on us. Like we were basically just sitting there looking at each other.

It was like me, Vita, Vita, JPP, Shack, I'm trying to, Levanti David, Devin White, because they were in our blitz packages and they would be coming alongside something that sometimes they would add, depending on Travis Kelsey was staying in or not and whatnot. So they'd have to understand being that fifth Russia for us. And even some of our young guys, they're like, man, we got an opportunity to actually play well and do some things.

And like, we deserve to lose this game if we don't destroy that offensive line. And you saw what happened. Yes, we did, bro. It was ugly. The thing about Tampa is you played with Tom Brady and I saw recently where you and him were talking. And there was a story where you sacked him and you got up and said, I'm not your fucking friend. Yeah. We've talked about respect and we've talked about.

you know, enjoying battles with other players. But for you, were you a jersey trade guy or was that a no-no for you as well? No, no, man. That's, that's why. There's so many great jerseys. I got great jerseys in my garage, bro. No, and I think I definitely missed on, missed out on that side of things. And more so now I'm like Caleb Williamson, my boy's jerseys. Like, that's like my new version of swapping jerseys from that standpoint and things like that like because they love it they're like oh we got a signed jersey like and they're excited so i think that's my new version of being able to swap jerseys but like tom i mean to that comment like there was i feel like i played him almost every single year when i was in the league and this was when we were in miami and there was just this hate

love relationship between new england and miami and we always went typically one for one unless we really sucked in miami which was only i think one year that i was was there that we really sucked where we lost him twice. And so he was very strategic. Everybody loved him as they should. He used to go, but he would try and bother up to the alignment. And I say, bro, I know what you're trying to do. I'm not your friend.

So stop, just stop it. I'm going to, if you give, if your opposite alignment, give me the opportunity to see your arm or see your leg or hit you, I'm driving straight through you. So you better get rid of the ball and get that tuck rule back in effect. Brady wanted to be buddy, buddy with you. He was like, yeah, you know, Sue, should I be investing in emerging markets or, you know, he's trying to get into the talk shop with you.

That's funny as fuck. The Philly year, you were there. You'd already want a ring. And my buddy Robert Quinn's there. I think Linball was there. So there was this collection of vets. Having the security of having your ring. Watching those guys not get it.

Was that tough to see, you know, when. there were other vets and you wanted to see them enjoy the same thing you'd enjoyed, but to come up empty. Yeah, man, it was definitely tough to see that. And I think that was something that was definitely a big part of it is being able to share at that moment and know we were so close. All we got to do is not take our foot off the gas and continue to run through this team as we were.

And it was just, it was devastating from that standpoint. Like, I was sick at the end of the night. Like, I had, like, a ton of people in the way. town that flew in and all these different things and like to go back to the house that we rented and just sitting there like nobody wanted to talk to me like they knew I was pissed off and like had this opportunity I was like man I'm not I'm upset but like we got to also move on with life unfortunately because this may be the last game I ever play and ended up being that was it yeah yeah well you know we talk about the Super Bowls there's one team that I've heard you

talk about as a team that maybe should have been one of those teams and that was the 14 lines team. What was it about that group that you look back on and it holds a place dear to your heart? Man, that 14 defensive line was special. Myself, Zigi Anza, I mean, there was so many different Nick Fairley, like DeAndre Levy, like Slay was on that team, Glover Quinn. I mean, Coach Caldwell, being our head coach, like Calvin, Dom, Ryola. Like, there were so many special people on that team. It was just criminal how we got that game taken away from us in the playoffs. And, like, I was trying to do anything and everything in my power alongside everybody else to just will us pass that situation.

But unfortunately, it happened when it happened. And ultimately, like, that was a special group. And we still have our group chat to this day. We still in there every now and then. Dudes wishing happy birthdays, talking nonsense every now and then. But it was just a special group. And we were an elite. I mean, I think we should have been number one.

I think we ended up being number two overall defenses in that year. But, I mean, I think we set an NFL record in like 75 rushing yards on average of what we gave up. And then we were maybe like, I don't know how many passing yards, but it was. That's where I think we lost it. But we were right behind Seattle, I think, is where we ended up on overall defense. Well, it's funny. I do think people forget about that group. But Ansa, when he was on, was a dog, dude.

You know, he didn't, the success didn't last as long with him. I guess it was maybe injuries and that sort of thing. But, yeah, fun team. And then the one guy I remembered that you played with in Detroit was Kyle Van deraubosh, who was my, Van derbych was my goat, you know? Like, he was my genre. And white chocolate. Yeah, you know, high motor and, you know, he wore the red contacts and shit.

Did he wear the red contacts in Detroit? For sure. Yeah, he did. You know, he's in Nebraska great now. He is. He is. And when I was in college, you know, back in the DVD days, my dad got me a Kyle Vanombosh DVD, which is an end zone film of him.

And that was the one guy I watched. And I just love his, I mean, you know, it's cliche, but, he just never gave up on a play. He played with an intensity that was second to none. And I just wonder what kind of a guy he was because I never really got to meet him. No, he was a great dude. So interesting enough, we came, I got drafted by them. He was there.

He had signed. He stole my number 93. And I was like, there's no way he's giving it to me or I'm going to be able to buy it from me. He was like, he called me that same day I got drafted. I'm gonna hope you're ready to work. You're not getting this jersey number, but let's go, let's go have some fun. He said that.

Yeah. So that's why I went and we're at war 90 in Detroit. And then, but Kyle, man, almost, I wouldn't say I resented him, but there was times early on in my career, like my rookie season. I was like mad at him because, bro, you just don't stop. Like, I'm tired.

Like, but coach, coach Kasur who was our D-Lean coach. Yeah. Sirik was like, Sue, I don't care what you have to say. You have to do everything Kyle does. It's like, this is bull. Like, man, I'm tired. I'm 315.

I'm 300 pounds plus. He's 275, 280. Like, but no, when he's running to the ball, you follow behind him or you need to be right next door to him. And so that's what created my motor and took it to a whole different level to strive and being after him in the weight room. always works. I'd be in the mornings working out with him, like, everything. And like, he taught me how to write my notes and study and all these different things. Like, there was be times, like,

during the summer because I was doing so much, like, photo shoots and all these different things being a young, hot rookie, I'd fall asleep in meetings. I'd just get this punch in my, in my side, because it made me sit next to him, wake your butt up. Like, don't fall asleep on me. So he was all on me. So that was my two big brothers were. him and Dom like Ryola and Dom was trying to beat my head in every single day in practice, but like still would take care of me at the same time. Yeah, we're definitely getting old because now the younger, the Ryola kids, you know, he's at Nebraska emulating Mahomes and he's on TV every weekend. So I, the other thing for me was you played with Schwartsey. I mean,

Schwarty was your coach. I'm watching Cleveland right now. I don't know if you caught that Cleveland Green Bay game Sunday but those guys play so fucking fast that defense is is truly up front it's like and I mean this I know there's stuff going on behind the front but like you don't know you don't need no shit it's seabalk at all rush crush close it's probably the most underrated and funnest defense to play in because guess what the defense in alignment are never wrong the linebackers and the DBs, you got to fill in for them. If he crushes and closes an A and B gap, you got to get to the C

gap, vice versa. So don't look at these dudes, but also on the flip side, defense alignment, or if you are not creating havoc and slowing down the running back or slowing down the quarterback, it's on you. So it works hand in hand together, and that's why you've got to have a really good defensive coordinator

like source that knows how to find the right players that can play off of it. That's why D'Andre Levy and all those guys had so much success. We were just destroying and stuff and he would just fill off of us. He would just pat, pat, pat, slide down and then get, especially when run play and this clean up after us

or whatever. The only thing we'd be mad about, I was like, man, don't jump on our sacks. Yeah, don't do that. Don't do that because I'm going to turn it in. Who was the, who, Delmas? Did you play with Delmus? Yeah, Delmos was like, yeah. He was like a Bob Sanders, bro.

He was a missile coming down. And I told Delmas, if you ever hit me in my back again, open your eyes. You hit me in the back again. I'm going to beat you up on this field. You can definitely tell some of the guys that go, boom, with their eyes closed, man. But that dude was a dog, man. The other spot that I had to ask you about from a coaching tree standpoint was when you were in Miami,

they had Dan Campbell on staff. And I think Kelvin Shepard was on the team. Did you, what were your notions of those guys? Like, does it make sense now in retrospect? respect that Kelvin Shepard is a DC at this age, you know, coaching league. And did you see the head coaching qualities that Dan Campbell had? Because I think did you have him as an interim head coach? Yeah, exactly.

So I had him as interim head coach. And I think that was my first inkling of seeing like Dan is not just this high energy tight ends coach and all fun because that's really kind of what he was coined as, especially in Miami. And so really when he took over that 2015 season, it was like a great situation for us because we actually had something that we wanted to play for and fight for as our head coach, which was super important on what this team needed at that particular point in time. And then on the flip side, Shep, like, I didn't never see him as a coach, but I can see it now because everybody loved him. He was a middle linebacker, voice of the defense in a lot of ways, and people respected him.

So now you got a guy that played a long time in the world. league and transitioning to being a coordinator from working his ranks at. Like, it all makes sense because dudes respect them. So now he can say, like, I don't, I don't only played this game, but I know what you guys are going through and I can see the envision of how you guys can be successful. And I mean, I'm not surprised he's doing as well as he is because I, it's funny. Most of my teammates now, we talk more now than we were teammates, which is crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm answering FaceTime, random times, and night. and all that shit. I got the same group text thing with the St. Louis group text popping off your boy William Hayes is in there. Yeah, he was down to Miami.

I think it was a 16 year he was down there with me. That's right. That's right. He loves you. Will Hayes, yeah. Will is one of a kind, bro. So, you know, back to the more

than being a football player thing, one of the interesting things about you is you're one of those guys that had negotiated your own contract. which to me is so fucking intimidating. I'll admit I'm the guy that's like, take the fee. Like, I can't, I can't take it with me. You know, I'm just, I'm more that kind of guy.

I wish I was like you. How did you do it, man? Like what was the hardest part of learning to negotiate a contract? And was there anything that you think like if a guy is saying, hey, Sue, I'm going to do this. What's the one place that you're like, hey, you have. have to hone in on this. So excellent question. And I'll give you my experience through it was good, but also I noticed some of the teams

and more particularly some of later on teams that I was with, the GMs didn't want to talk to me. They were afraid to have that conversation with me and say, like, because my thing is, it's like, you can say what you want to say, but you got to back it up with actually actual data. And you can talk crazy to my agent, but they don't have the balls to talk. talk crazy to me in my face. But I'm like, I'm a girl. I'm a big guy. Like, say what you got to say. Say I'm not as good as this player. Let's look at the stats. Let's look at these different things.

Like, I think it was my 2019 season in Tampa and going into that negotiation for 2020. I took a pay cut. But I said, I'm going to take a pay cut, but you're going to, because I only had like maybe two and a half or three sacks in that 19 season. But I also just came off of back-to-back years with Aaron Donnelly in the league in sacks and almost breaking the record of straight hand. Then Shaq Barrett just coincidentally leads the league in sacks. There's a common denominator there. Who was at the scene of the crime?

Yeah, exactly. So there's a common denominator. So let's have that conversation. Like, I'm ready to go back and forth on that. Like, I love negotiating from that standpoint, especially when I'm armed with information. So that's one piece that I learned. But also another piece is that guys have to. understand it. If you pay your union dues and you're a part of the union, well, guess what?

They're going to approve all the contracts anyways. So you can technically cut the agent out and go have the union's lawyers do it for you. Like, and I learned that from Don Davis, who was, oh, I think should be our next PA rep or head of the PA. I agree. In my personal opinion, and bro, he put me on so much game and understanding how the business works and why I had the constantly to go do it on my own, but also have it verified by the PA's office. Like, let's, let's go together. But I also understand there's other things that come with agents and all those different things. I just didn't see the value in that because I just had a different structure in my life of how I wanted to run my business. And that's my right. Totally. I'm too ADHD. Like,

you really have your shit together. Like, you know, in learning about you, you're very, you're very, very steady person. You're, you're, you're, you're into routines and, and, you know, data and and collecting information. Like, it just takes a certain type of person to do it. And, and, you know, I wonder if any of the GMs out of the ones that you communicated with were less, I don't know, frightened to deal with you one on one. Was there any GM that, that would actually sit down with you? Or was it all of them? Yeah. I'll say the best GM that I worked with negotiating. deal with. And I think at this time I might have done like a co-representation just because I was in the middle of some stuff from a family perspective. Why I think I brought them in was a family

friend and I was helping them. The best person to talk was with Howie. Howie was a straight shooter. Like I value you, but this is my cap and vice versa. Like if you can give me some other reasons. And like that conversation with Howie was like super, super good. And I started the initial conversation when I knew it was real because I got a call. I don't know if you ever came across Ted Raff. Yeah. And when he was a performance director in Philly for a while. Yeah. And now he's with the New Orleans Saints. But that was my guy. Like, it's crazy. So we were together in Detroit. Then I left and went to Miami. A year later, he came to Miami. He left from Miami. He said, you come to L.A. I went to L.A. because of him. Then I left and went to Tampa. He wasn't

there but then he went to philly and then he told me to come up to philly and that's so i got that that was my first call to come up to philly and i was like bro you guys are like eight no you sure you want me to come play and he was like bro we need you let's go so i was like man let's put me on with how we so we had a conversation and then some family stuff popped up and i had a friend of mine who was an agent uh pop in for me just because i had to deal with some family stuff before i could uh get up there and go from there so it was yeah it was crazy if there's any advice you give to a young player You know how they get up there. And I don't know.

Well, first, do you think that, like, they should change the way they're on board NFL players? Because I feel like from a financial literacy standpoint, like, the worst time to talk to players is at the end of a day in training camp. And they come in and, like, the union talks to us or, like, you have somebody come in and talk about gun safety. You have somebody come in and talk about financial literacy. Like, I feel like it goes in one ear and out the other. So, like, one, can we reimagine the way that we educate our population? of players. And then two, what is the one thing that you would tell young players about that first contract? A hundred percent do I think we can change the way that we educate our players

from a financial literacy perspective? One thousand percent. And the reason why I believe that is because, yes, we are checking the box and giving them some information and doing credit checks and doing all these different things. And there's these resources. But you've got to remember that these guys need to be handheld through these processes. I was handheld by a major executive of a bank called TD Ameritrade, and his name was Joe Mogli. Everybody needs handheld it. That was my mentor.

Then I went to Warren Buffett. Now I have the combination of them. Now I have all these other people that have come underneath me and supported me from that standpoint. Vice versa, every other individual athlete needs that. But also on the same time, you've got to understand there's going to be guys that are going to fall through the cracks no matter what because they just don't have a want to an interest or whatever it is and they're just going to blow their money but the guys and gals

that want to have this education to understand it we need to have a program to where hey here's a mentor there's 20 of them because not everybody's going to not everybody's going to like me not everybody's going to like you vice versa so let's find a collection of people that were that don't need them but are willing to help them and I think that's the key a lot of my mentors don't need me Right. I have no desire, but I, but I have an affinity for me because of the way that I treat them, the way that I follow through. And when they ask me to do something vice versa, I follow through all those different pieces. So without question, I think we need to change that. It's a longer story than a longer timeframe of explaining that than we have right now. So I'd love to have a conversation about it with the league office and grow those different things. And ultimately, like, it's one of those pieces for players. You have to. sit down and figure out year one or maybe year two at the latest what would you do with your life when sports is over let's start having those conversations now because it's too late when you've either gotten released aka fired or you have an injury and you have no other choice but to go and

try and figure something out or three you're lucky enough like us leave on our own terms and don't have a plan forward of where you want to move forward. You can't get to the, you can't be at the end and then trying to figure out where you're going next. You got to start working towards the end while you have something that's going on and success is for you right now. It's no different than business. I look at Dan Gilbert, like, bro, he got an amazing company in Quicken Loans, Rocket Mortgage, and now he's using this cash cow to build all these creative, exciting things in and around the city and bringing that city to Detroit back. So, like, that's how you got to kind of think about things from my standpoint. My first purchase was a lease on a Cadillac DTS. How did I do?

Okay. I like it. You leased. Exactly. You waited like because guess what? As soon as you took that car off the lot, it went down and down the value. I know. I just can never get over like, hey, I'm not an expensive car guy and maybe that's just, it's not a fetish of mine, but like, dude, spending a half a mill on a car. Like I, I test her over Rose Royce once because I was going through kind of a midlife crisis. at like 28 or 29 and I drove it off the lot and I'm like I'm so afraid to scuff the the fucking fender like I don't I can't even drive this thing like how do I in good conscience drive this house I'll give you this example everybody knows that we're successful and we've made lots of money yeah the Cullinan in 2018 came out

Rose Royce Cullin the big boy truck there was two teammates I was playing within LA, bottom out cash, pulled up, waxing, doing all these different things. That's cool. Two days later, because I had to wait a couple days later to get mine, I got mine.

Guess what? Mine was free. It was a lease. I had a deal. Then guess what? We go to the Super Bowl. I got a deal with Rolls-Royce at the Super Bowl. So I had a Don,

a Rose Royce Culleman, and a hard top, I think, ghost. We were fitted as a family with cars. And we had a couple joints that we rented, suburban-wise, for our security. Like the royal family, bro. Yeah, running around in Atlanta. So that's the difference of saying,

I got to enjoy the same thing you did. I just happened to do it with my name and delightness, and you dropped 500 bands. I got the same enjoyment. but who lost not saying he lost out or they lost out but which is penny wise panel foolish you're you're using your brand you're you're not opening the wallet yeah and and you you said name image and likeness it the last thing i do what i ask you about is with the way college football has changed and i am number i'm like i've always been the one where it's like if we live in a free market society then it needs to be

that way for fucking 18 year old kids too you know if you know if it's a you know if it's a little bit of If they're cooking the meal, they need at least part of the bill, right? And that's got to trickle down to them and the whole thing. But it almost feels like an atmosphere where predatory people are lurking right now around college football. Because these guys are young. They're getting bags. They're not thinking about the things that you're talking about, probably. And I can guarantee you with no union and no structure around the college football population.

there's no onboarding the way we talk about it. As imperfect as the NFL is, at least there is, you know, an entity that is looking out for you. How do we improve that process for young players who haven't even gotten their first NFL check yet? I think it's going to be interesting conversation. It's something that I'm actually excited to work on. There's a group that I'm looking to join here shortly that I think will solve this problem with the NIL side of stuff and the structure of being able to create something that is going to, because college football is going to get to a position to where it doesn't make sense for these power five groups to be all separated. They need to come together as one and be able to share these funds.

And it's going to be interesting to see how the conferences and the commissioners decide to see that that's going to be the best thing for them to have power in numbers. No different that every single NFL team is its own entity, but they come under the shield when it's time to negotiate that contract with the TV rights and get billions and billions of dollars. And then trickles down to an equal share between all of those teams. It's a bigger pot. It's the college football is exactly the same, if not even more powerful because of the fandom behind them. And Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn State. Like Penn State, like at times they suck. Nebraska, at times they suck.

But the fan base is, bro, we're on our 400 and like second consecutive sold out. That's insane. That's crazy. I sit in the upper deck at Virginia because the upper level is always open. Yeah. But that is the power of it. And if you can pull all that together, the TV people are not going to like. it but I'm willing to bet Amazon, Apple, potentially Disney, all these groups are going to potentially

pay for that if it all comes under one envelope. And there's ways to be able to have college football have that power to be able to get that money because then guess what? We talk about Title IX. We talk about these other pieces. That's how we can take care of, well, at least our women's volleyball, they take care of themselves because they're elite. But women's volleyball, softball, basketball, whatever, it may be, all these other sports.

Our bowling team is cold, but they're not making them. own money. Football's feeding. Y'all got a bowling team? Oh, yeah, national champions. Don't sleep on us. Oh, wrestling. Yeah, wrestling. All these things.

But you make football the vocal point and it feeds all these other sports that it, for them to be successful and have the money to do it. But if we're all fragmented, then guess what? The person that wins in that situation is the TV rights, folks, because now I'm just doing a deal for the Big Tenor. I'm doing a deal for the Big 12 that I don't even think even really. I don't even think even they really exist except for two teams. Like so now, just bring it all together, have a system.

It's going to be collective bargaining in some form or faster for the players to get their fair share as they should and go from there. And so I think it would be interesting to see how that comes together. But I think a big Lynchpin that is going to be the commissioners of the Big Ten, the 12, SEC and all of that stuff together because they're going to have to work together and become one. Is it true Warren Buffett doesn't have a cell phone? That's what I that's what I'm thinking about right now. Dude, that's so fucking cool. This is the last thing we're going to talk about before I let you go. But like if you got to get a hold of him, what do you like page him?

So I either email his EA, Miss Debbie, who's amazing. Miss Debbie, shout out. Or when we set up a call, there's a special number that I call that he picks up, that he makes sure he's there. It's so cool, man. I want to throw my cell phone into the bottom of the ocean. man so one day i want to be like warren buffett i don't even need the money i just want i just want a landline bro um indomicon sue uh on green light we got to do it again dude it's it's been a pleasure and a lot of fun getting to know you off the field dude man if we don't do it before i appreciate it

uh but let's definitely do a catch up at the super bowl and it and say it clear hell yeah that sounds good bro thanks for coming on yes man i appreciate you we'll talk here soon