Green Light with Chris Long - NFL Draft with Ian Rapoport. The Last Dance Episodes 3 and 4.

Episode Date: April 27, 2020

0:52 - Open and Chris' NFL Draft Takeaways. 12:12 - Ian Rapoport talks NFL Draft, NFL Trades, and Jameis Winston. 45:16 - Chris on the Last Dance Episodes 3 and 4. Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Happy Monday. Welcome to Greenlight Pod. There were sports. We are all very happy there were sports. We're going to talk about that and more today. I'm going to have Ian Rappaport stop on. Rap sheet. He's got the scoop on a lot of stuff. A lot of trades happened this weekend. He was on kind of all of them. And obviously you've got James Winston signing one year deal with the Saints. So we'll talk about all that. We'll also talk about the draft. Oh yeah. Last Dance. We got to talk about that as well on the tail end of the pod. I thought the draft was a lot of fun. It was damn near a miracle. They pulled it off.

A lot had to be done to get that to happen. And they had a very captive audience ratings or through the roof. We're going to talk about that and more today. I'm going to have Ian Rappaport stop on. Rap sheet. He's got the scoop on a lot of stuff. A lot of trades happened this weekend.

He was on kind of all of them, one of which involved the Philadelphia Eagles, one of which involved the Washington Redskins. Both of those trades involved the San Francisco 49ers. And obviously you've got James Winston signing one-year deal with the Saints. So we'll talk about all that. We'll also talk about the draft. You know, this draft was entertaining.

It was very chalky to start with. But there were moments in each round. Obviously, night one, the moment was It's Arod, as I call him, as people constantly remind me that Alex Rodriguez is more commonly known as Arod. Fuck him. I don't care. That's what I call him. Arod got cucked by the Green Bay Packers.

He's going to have a grudge till the day he dies. I cannot believe that it happened. Jordan Love, traded up to get him. leapfrogged teams that probably weren't going to draft a quarterback. I'll ask Ian about that, though. And it sent shockwaves through the football world and through Twitter. And certainly that's going to be an interesting situation to monitor. Also, Carson Wentz on a lesser scale by the Eagles, round two pick Jalen Hertz.

Listen, Carson definitely needs a competent backup. up. Carson's had issues before in this league now today, post Nick Foles era, you're going to look at a second quarterback as a big commodity. But to use a two on your second quarterback, a guy in a coronavirus shortened offseason that you're going to expect to step in and win a game or two in Philly, that concept of the quarterback factory. is under review currently by the Philadelphia media and the Philadelphia fan base. Listen, the Eagles did some good things. We'll get to that. I like the Rager pick. They did get some speed, day three. It felt like the Eagles one day three from a win-loss perspective.

But it's undeniably the biggest moment of day two, Jalen Hertz, unexpectedly, kind of thrown into this situation. By the way, I really like Jalen Hertz. I think he's developmental. So as an Eagle fan, if you're trying to root for the pick, you're kind of also hoping something happens to where he gets in the game. And the only thing that could happen to put him in the game is Carson failing with good health or being hurt. So it's a weird predicament to be in to hope that the pick is justified.

I suppose you could develop him and trade him at some point. But if Carson's healthy, he's healthy, he's, one year into his 120 plus million dollar contract, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I know that competition is something we should welcome as athletes. I certainly welcome that when I played, but there has to be a reason. So what's the reason? Is it competition? If it is, that's an indictment on your franchise quarterback, and an indictment on your

decision making. If it's not competition, then maybe two wasn't the right place for a backup. I don't know. Time will tell. Either way, I do like Jalen Hertz and I like Carson Wentz. Weird situation. The wide receivers fell, okay? That was weird.

Who was taken first was odd. Mock drafts got just about everything right through the first six to eight picks. And then it got really weird starting with rugs. from the Raiders, and then C.D. Lamb was one of the steals of the draft. And Dallas took them out of Philly's hands, and Philly couldn't make a deal for him. And that changed the dynamic of how the receivers came off the board from then on. So another trend there was you had about 40 SEC players and 10 Ohio State players taken through the first three rounds.

So I think what you can glean from that is that, you know, these teams aren't. are struggling to get a beat on smaller school guys, guys without as much tape, without as much national exposure from lesser, from less reputable schools when it comes to churning out pro talent. So what do you do? You go to the well. And the well is SEC, Bama, LSU, Florida, schools like that, and Ohio State, who is now churning out first round pick after first round pick, top five pick after top five pick, pass rusher after pass rusher. And Nick Saban, by the way, has now produced a first rounder at every position on the field, all 22 at Bama.

I think it was just at Bama. Wow, that's crazy. So, Pats didn't do much in the grand scheme of things. Thought they might make a move for quarterback. Did not do that. And, you know, there were some winners. There were some losers. but as it is with the draft,

none of us know what the fuck is going on until it happens. And we're all just guesstimating right now. Even the people that get paid to do it are batting about 500. So we will get into a lot of that with Ian Rappaport. There were certain picks that I really liked. I'll get it off my chest right now before we even get going. Listen, some people are coming away from this thing, big winners. There's some teams whose drafts I really like.

You know, the Titans I liked, Washington I liked. Look at Gandy, Golden, and the fourth. He's a steal. The Titans got a, got a steal in the second with Christian Fulton to replace Logan Ryan. San Francisco's got a big boomer bust draft. You've got Kenlau. You had to take Kenlau. It's a big drop off after that.

Iook's the big risk there. We'll see if they continue to hit on players early. Steelers got Claypool. Steelers don't do that a lot. and must say something about Claypool. And the Jets and the Giants definitely had solid drafts. I want to shout out of Joe Douglas, crushed it, Bexton, Mims, Rice Hall from UVA. That's a steal.

We know that here in Charlottesville. We know why he plummeted, was injury-related. And the Giants, they made the safe pick on the front end with Andrew Thomas. You've got to protect your assets in first-second round picks that you've had lately. and you also stole a safety in the second round, McKinney. And the last time they took a Bama safety ended up being, I think, landing college. And it was about the same time in draft, and that worked out pretty good. Minnesota had a ton of picks, good investment post digs with Jefferson, Gladney, TCU, Ezra Cleveland,

who was an enormous baby. And James Lynch was a steal from Baylor, short on. arms is what I heard from a coach I talked to, but he's a leading pressure guy, one of the leading pressure guys in the country. I think he was a big 12 defense player a year. He's going to have good pass rush instincts and a good value where they got him. The Rams, I'll give you a sleeper there, Terrell Lewis. I know there's some like motivational kind of character concerns from what I heard, but if he can put it together, this guy is really talented. He might replace Dante Fowler and then some.

We'll see if the light really turns on for him in L.A. And then, you know, across the city there, the charges had one of the best picks early in Murray from Oklahoma. They gave up a 37 and a 771 to move into the first round and get him at 23. You know, it's a Gus Bradley fit athletic. And Thomas Davis is gone now. So they did not draft an offensive tackle. And left tackle will be a battle kind of unproven players in 2009.

with a third rounder from 2019. A third rounder is going to be battling with a 2017-6th. They also snagged UVAs Joe Reed, so that's big time. Wahua, the Vegas Raiders, took three wide receivers early. A sleeper for me would be Brian Edwards, South Carolina wide out. Kansas City, I talked about the top two picks on my live stream the other night. Clyde Edwards Hilaire, he's a Westbrook. I mean, that's what Reed thinks, and Westbrook caught a ton of balls for about a decade in Philly.

Look at how he used them there. That's how he'll use Clyde Edwards-Helair. And then Willie Gay Jr., huge steel. Second, you know, probably fell for some off-the-field reasons. His tape is impressive. Jags had a good draft. C.J. Henderson. Chazon, Chison, however you say it.

You replace Ramsey. And then you add somebody to rust with Josh Allen. So I really like that draft they had there. Cowboys crushed it. I hate to say that. Stole Lamb from Philly. Also traded up and got the center from Wisconsin. Who I hear mixed reviews on, I have heard really good things about him.

And I've heard he's actually not that good. So we'll see. But if he hits, that's going to be a tough one to stomach. because Philly gave him the pick. And, of course, they invest in a wide-out in the first round with Mike McCarthy. And Aaron's up north like, what the fuck? Panthers had a good draft. Cardinals had a good draft.

And those teams, I didn't mention that had a good draft. If your team had a good draft and I didn't say it, I apologize. That doesn't mean they didn't have a good draft. Some bad nights for quarterbacks, though, again, we'll get to that. Rogers, Wents. very different scales of the panic meter in those two respective situations but not great

I'll ask you about it and then the alt-right kicker yeah the Patriots drafted like a Ted Nugent type so that should be interesting and if he ever misses to the right I think it's going to be fucking hilarious

he can have whatever political views he wants but when he misses to the right I am going to boo his fucking ass or cheer. I think I'll cheer. Yeah, so that was the draft. Let's get Ian on and talk more about it. And then, oh yeah, last dance. We got to talk about that as well on the tail end of the pod.

Welcome to the Greenlight Pod, somebody who I think has the most notes of almost anybody in the NFL coming up this weekend. So I'm glad we have him. Ian Rappport, NFL Insider. Ian, thanks for joining us. Really enjoy your Twitter. You can follow them a rap sheet right at the NFL. It's at rap sheet.

There you go. That's the spot. If you didn't know, now you know that's where you get all your scoops and pretty reliable information from my man Ian here. So thanks for joining us. What was the biggest takeaway from this weekend? If there was one thing that surprised you, was it the wide outs? Was it Jordan Love?

Was it, you know, Jalen Hertz? Was it, you know, what was it that you came away from? I did not expect that. Yeah, I would say, you know, so much of the draft actually, happened kind of like we had thought like I like wrap myself into a pretzel by the end of this with information just like subterfuge and what I'm hearing and then people say well actually the rumors are this and like trying to figure out what's real and what's not is like my favorite draft thing but it's also impossible so you know by the by the time the draft starts like I feel

like I know everything and nothing right but the draft started kind of like we all thought like If you had told me in September, like Chargers take Herbert and Dolphins take two, I'd say, all right, yeah, I get it. To me, the two things that I sort of didn't see coming were the quarterbacks. It was the Packers trading up for Jordan Love, even though I thought they might be, I knew they were interested. I thought they might take them trading up kind of gives it a little bit of a different sense of urgency, like they had to have that guy. And then the ego is taking Jalen Hersch when they did. I mean, that was, to me, like, it was a surprise.

But on the other hand, like, of all the teams that need a really, really, really good backup, the Eagles with Carson Wentz injury history, probably need it as much as anyone. So basically, to answer your question, you can't reach on a quarterback. That's my takeaway. It's like, if you like them, just take them. If it's around early, who cares? Like, just get yourself set at the quarterback position and worry about everything else. There would seem to be a difference in the two picks because both of them were certainly head scratch.

It was funny because I was sitting here in my office and it's one thing to digest the draft when you're not scanning your timeline continually and having other people's, you know, opinions, Sully, yours. Yeah. I was sitting here with no timeline. And as the Packers made the pick, I'm high on Jordan Love. Okay. I'm biting the cheese on some his top end stuff, you know, the stuff from two years ago. I'm believing the hype a little bit. I thought to myself, Aaron's 36, okay, his play's been declining a bit, you know, from a very high level.

And eventually, he just doesn't seem like the guy with his injury history, which is less than Carson's. But at 37 and 38, it's only, I don't see him playing till 42. You know, I know he's under contract until 2023, but I didn't hate them making that pick. What I hated about it was they leapfrog, you know, three, four teams. that didn't seem to be in the running for Jordan Love? I mean, were any of those teams going to take Jordan Love in those spots? Good question. So the answer is no.

No one else was going to take him. But what they thought was that the cults were going to come up and take him. That was like one of the hot rumors that I was, you know, when you're preparing for the draft, like there's some things you report. Like, all right, a guy's medical history that drastically affects his stock. I will report that. Failed drug test. I would report that.

Stuff like that. but a lot of the rumors you kind of like, all right, I'll keep in the back of my head. And then if this happens, I'll be kind of ready, right? So I was ready for the coach to come up for a quarterback and they didn't even call. And so I was like, okay, but for the Packers, it didn't matter. So they had a deal. I'm trying to think. They traded up with the dolphins, right?

They traded up with the dolphins. And they also had a deal with the Seahawks right behind them. So if the Dolphins, if they hadn't done the deal with the dolphins, they would have done the deal with the dolphins. they would have done the deal with the Seahawks, which is to say they were coming up for him no matter what. They just, they wanted to make sure that they had him, which tells you like they think very highly of him,

and they were willing to give up whatever it was to get him. The other thing is, and you kind of hit on it, like sometimes I think I'm crazy. Like my opinions a lot of times do not jive with the public from like literally everything, from like when you're younger, the type of people you think are attractive or like foods or weird shows or I'm a Mexican. You're a contrarian. Yes.

And like everyone's going crazy with the Jordan Lucknick. And I'm like, obviously, like Aaron's 36. Love's really talented. He doesn't have to play right now. It actually makes a lot of sense. Like why is everyone bugging about it, you know? I think why people are bugging is because people are falling for the notion that the Packers were close last year. I know they were relatively close.

I never thought the Packers were close last year. I think that defensive front that needs to be shorted up is a big problem. I think that the lack of weapons, ironically, for Aaron was a problem. And I don't think they're going to necessarily get that much closer in a year. Now, who's to say he doesn't come out, you know, scorched earth and win the MVP in the Super Bowl this year? I don't know. This could go one or two ways. If you're a sports psychologist type of guy and you're a master motivator, maybe LaFleur and the GM there are,

and they're saying, well, I mean, if we do this, we're going to get the most pissed off Aaron Rogers, and he might hate us forever, but he might take it out on the field. And, you know, who knows? But on the Carson Wentz front, it's totally different because to me, you're reaching for somebody who a lot of people thought of as a three or a four, right? I mean, you're reaching up in the second to grab a kid who I think is a winner. I like the kid a lot. But with no runway for him with the coronavirus situation,

you know, if you want somebody to win a spot start, I feel like you're saying there's an injury history problem with Carson, which I agree, there is an injury history. And I've thrown on the table for him about the concussion thing, because I thought that was kind of a non sequitur in that whole conversation. You know, if Jadavia and Clowny drills you in the back of the head, we're all going to have concussions. It really doesn't matter how prone you are.

But if we end up in a situation like that next year in Philly, I don't know how comfortable I feel with Jalen Hertz coming in and winning a spot start where there's vets out there. Yeah, I'm, I guess my answer on that is I don't know because a lot of people thought he was a three. I would love to know if the Patriots were going to take him in the second round or the third round or if the, I guess, third round for the Patriots or if the Ravens were going to take him. I know the Eagles thought the Ravens might take him behind them, but there's no way of actually knowing. So I would like to know the answer to those questions just as we try to figure out his worth. But you're right, like he is really talented.

He lost his starting job in the biggest game that we've ever seen in college football. And Tua came on it and won it. He's a class act and a great person. But, you know, there's some reading of defense stuff that you have questions on. And so I really don't know the answer. I was definitely surprised if you told me you're going to use them in the Tassum Hill role and that's it. Like, okay, the Tua is early. on the other hand, they have good coaches, so maybe he learns.

Yeah, they can develop him. I'm not putting that past Doug. I think Doug's is brilliant in offensive mind, and I know. You know. They miss Frank in that respect. I mean, if they had Doug and Frank, I wouldn't even batting my eyes at this pick at all, because I do think you can develop him in a condensed time period. But, you know, it feels like more appropriate to draft a kid in the first round for the Packers,

even though it was like, you know, the shittiest thing on the Internet. this weekend than it does to draft a guy going in with Carson. You have to take into consideration the city he plays in, what happened with Nick Foles and the conversation since. If you want to maximize what you have in your quarterback, I think you have to take the psychology into account. I think a lot of people wagging their finger and saying, well, he's not strong enough for some competition.

I don't think of it as competition. I just think about it as muddy in the waters. And you just don't know in that locker room. Because it's not competition. Carson's the starter. It's just kind of like... You got to say, is it competition or is it not? And if it's not, then two seems high.

That was my only thing. It was like, you know, you want to draft Jalen Hertzby's there at three or four. You know, great. And I know you got some... You won day three with a couple speedsters and whatnot. But, you know, Philly fans wanted to see you win day one. And I know backers a thing that they don't invest in linebackers and that sort of thing. But, you know, that defense is going to need a couple key pieces.

You lose, there's an exodus of linebackers with Bratim and Camu. and all those guys, and then you lose Malcolm Jenkins. I just think they could have shorted up the defense, too. Talk about the Goodwin trade. You were on the Goodwin trade early, right? Yeah, this was an interesting one because they've been shopping him for, honestly, forever. And that was one that, like, you know, you hear all these trade names. You're going to keep it in your back pocket.

That was so prevalent that I was like, I think everyone knows that they're trying to trade him, so I'm just going to have to report it. And then, you know, I was talking to some people on, like, Thursday or something. the draft. And I'm like, you know, how's it going? You know, is Goodwin going to get traded? And the response was like, probably not, you know, Mike just release him. I'm like, okay. And then I get a text like right away on Saturday like, uh, Goodman's about to go down, be ready. And I'm like, for what? But ended up trading him to the Eagles. You get a really fast guy. I think they adjusted his contracts. So it's probably not as expensive as it was for the Niners.

And, you know, you basically did like the lowest trade you could do, which is just like a pick swap. So, egos get him for free. Niners don't have to cut them. Get a move up a couple picks. Like, it's a low cost answer. And maybe it turns into something because he, you know, he's played some good football. He really has. Yeah, on top end of his production's been good.

And he's had his moments. And I think he's the type of guy that would analyze, you know, those guys in Philly thinking they can get something out of him. Right. And to your point, I mean, San Francisco gets to move up. and that sort of thing. Let's stay in San Francisco for a second because I thought that they potentially had one of the best or the worst drafts

in the whole league. I mean, because I really like Kinlaw, okay? I thought that he could rise, but I don't know if at that spot, now I know this, okay, so if you didn't take Kenlaw, the next D-Tackle taken was like at 40. So you kind of had to take him there. So I understand that it is risky.

He's not going to be Buckner off the bat. Okay. Ayyuk, how early were they, locked on to him from what you hear because that was a surprise to everybody and i like him for the record but it's a risk they were locked on to him early like i think so you know as i'm like being aware of some things during the draft like keeping in my head if they had traded i mean they did trade back but only one spot if they had slid back into like the late teens 18 19 20 then i'm thinking they're going to take him right because that i mean i'm pretty sure that that was their

number one receiver, just number one receiver. Which is interesting because, you know, half the people had seemed to have lamb, half the people had Judy. And then, of course, Ruggs goes first. And you're like, okay, what did I really learn over the last month? It's almost like the mocks were almost 100%. You mentioned it. I mean, it was very chalky for 30 minutes.

And then it got weird. And then it got weird. I mean, and even the Kinlaught thing, which I knew they needed a defensive tackle because they missed on Aishon, Robinson and they missed on another defensive tackle who I can't remember now. They tried to sign one in free agency. I knew they would get it. I kind of was keeping my eye on it.

I'm just surprised that for an organization that's taken so many defensive tackles early, that it was another one. And then I'm like, I can't believe Kyle's letting that happen, but he's also the coach of the whole team, not the offense. So he's a really good football. Yeah, and I think they have their mold there. They have their Armstead. They have their Buckner body type and Kinlaw.

Looks a lot like those guys. I don't think he's quite as. Now, Eric, he took some time, but I think it was more about the scheme than it was about his readiness. I think that Kinlaw is going to be a little bit more developing, but if they can get the most of them, they're going to get a lot because I really think

he's got as much upside almost as Derek, as crazy as that sounds. I mean, they're different type of guys, but Kinlaw is very twitchy and long. How did this daily timing come down with him letting them know about his retirement? You know, for fans out there that, you know, the first they see of Joe Staley retiring is the trade.

How does that happen sequentially behind the scenes? So, you know, I would say for me personally and my colleagues, Garifold and Pellasara, who I think we know, we all kind of worked on the Trent Williams trade. Honestly, probably as much as I've worked on any trade, literally maybe ever. It was because there was so much to it and it was constant talking to the Vikings and then are they talking to the Browns, what about dolphins? It's like, you know, you're going back and forth, all these things, right?

And then I find out that the Niners are involved and the Vikings kind of maybe go in the wrong way, like not as involved. And I'm like, wait a minute, why are the Niners involved? Like, this doesn't make any sense. I'm like, I reminded myself that we had not heard that Staley was retiring. So, you know, the Niners knew, I think a while ago that Staley may not play. I knew like probably Thursday that there was a high likelihood that he was not going to play. But you know, there's a different, first of all, breaking someone's retirement is weird because it's sort of like a personal, I don't know, at least for me, like it never feels great. I don't know, because it should be, unless the player is going to give it to me.

Yeah, it's got to come from the player. Yeah, yeah. Is that an ethical thing that you kind of follow with retirement? I just, yeah, kind of. I mean, I don't know. Like it's a weird kind of hill to die on. but like, I don't know. That's your one bugaboo, man.

That's your one bugaboo, man. You should just sort of be able to decide, like, I don't know. Go out on your own terms. Anyway. No, I agree with you. We appreciate that. So I find out on Thursday that he's probably retiring, and then I kind of keep it in my back pocket

because if, you know, there's sometimes when we report stuff and it literally like changes the landscape of what you're covering and reporting on him retiring Thursday would That would change the whole dynamic of the trade. Right. So sort of kept it quiet. And then, you know, it wasn't getting done Thursday. And then everyone took a breath.

Vikings were out Friday. And then all Saturday morning it was like, is the deal done? Is the deal done? And then it was like, all right, once the first pick is in, meaning once someone didn't jump the Redskins for a tackle. Right. then you could go.

So once the pick was in, then you fire. Well, they got a lot of work done. They're very active. You think they want to win now? I think so. Give me another team here who I think has a great opportunity to win now, and the window is wide open, but it won't be for long. And the AFC North, that's the Pittsburgh Steelers.

The Claypool pick. They're not typically the type to reach up and grab a wide receiver high. That says to me that they think he's really. special. How hot have they been on him? You know, has the chatter been that they were in love with him? Because it sure looks like it. Yeah, I mean, in my head, I thought they were going to go receiver kind of early because when they were going through some of the, some of the guys that kept coming back to receivers, right? And they, as an organization, I'm not sure anyone has had as much success drafting receivers in the mid-round, second, third, or six, whatever

A, B was. But this is a different territory, yeah. I mean, yeah, this is a little different, but he was not for everyone. Some people thought he was a tight end. He's a little raw. They love him. And I'm sure what's going to happen there is going to happen what they always do. Like, I'm sure he's going to end up as a, at the least, a very productive player because nobody develops receivers or tight ends or whatever he is. They can steal it. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, so even if it's a slight miss, they can overcome with whatever their blueprint is, that they've been just crushing receivers on the development side. I mean, but yeah, to your point, it's been a lot of mid-round guys.

So that was definitely eye-opening to me. They must really like them. NFC South, okay? You got the Jamis thing. The landscape is completely changed down there. It's like quarterback city. Carolina had a nice draft. I really thought so.

How about the O.J. Howard situation? moving away from the draft for a second. Is somebody going to take a stab at this kid? Because I found it really curious. And I don't know if it's one of those things. If Bruce Ariens is vocal and says that he doesn't quite have it, does that scare people off? Yeah.

I mean, the O.J. Howard situation has been like a little bit weird to me because I've kind of been waiting for him to get traded. You know, like I thought he was going to get traded around to start a free agency and he kind of just didn't. And then they signed. Gronk and like, well, obviously, O.J. Howard's going to the Patriots, then he didn't. And I don't think he ever will. And I don't know. I mean, the only thing that kind of makes sense to me, maybe, is Gronk's not going to play every snap. He'll probably play 50% of the snaps.

So maybe they say, all right, you know, VA's system isn't great for tight ends usually, but this is going to be more tight end base because Brady likes tight ends. So we're just going to keep an extra layer of protection. And, you know, because they probably could have. have gotten in my mind like a four or a five for OJ Howard. Yeah. But obviously they were like, this is not worth it. So we're just going to keep the player. Yeah, it's bizarre.

I mean, I know Tom and that leads me to wonder how much influence. I know Tom has a certain amount of influence in Tampa. What are you hearing? Because I would assume that he might have influence on who they draft this year. I think he had a lot of influence. Now, you know, they've done, I mean, it's a good rock. They haven't won a lot, but for a team that's been not good. Man, they're pretty good.

Which says something about James Winston. I hate to say that, and I'm rooting for the guy. Because I really, I really like James. I like his, the good James, we all love it. I would love to see him, you know, marry up with a coach like Sean Peyton, who he's going to end up with or a Bill Belichick I was wondering about, which would seem like out of a dream, or reality TV show. But, you know, like, the top five defense.

And it'll only get better with less sudden changes and more. complimentary football. You've got all those weapons. We talked about that. I like the backs. And, you know, they invest in the offensive line with worse. I mean, the window is, is more open than we ever knew it was. I mean, and this is, you know, this is going to be the best set of skill players that Brady's ever grown to. I mean, he's got a legit number one receiver, a guy who's a one A in Godwin. He's got Bronc. You know, we'll see what. Yeah, you never know, which I didn't think, I thought that was fair, what they got. what they had to give for them. And I think New England came away with a solid hall for a guy

that was not going to suit up for them. It's been out of football for two years. So I thought both teams won that. And, you know, Brady's old home. What the hell is going on there? Does anybody know what Bill's master plan is this year? I mean, I thought I was hoping for Jordan Love. I was hoping they'd invest in a quarterback. I get the feeling. It was interesting. They did not love Jordan Love. I mean, in my mind, they thought he was more of like a late, too, early three. Yeah. Which some did. I just, well, somebody's going to be right or not. But, you know, with the Patriots, there's always the old argument. You hear it all the time. Is it Brady or is it Belching? Is it the system? Or is Tom so good? We are literally going to find out. This is a

transition year in New England. They got a lot of dead money. It's not a high, high, high end talent group. Brian Hoyer is probably going to be their starter week one. We'll see, but that's my guess. And they still could win 10 games because that's an organization. And that would be bad for Bill to win that competition because if they win 10 games, they're going to be right back where they are this year with no quarterback. And so I wonder, you know, if you're in Bill's mind and I played for him and I have no shot of getting in his brain. But like, are you thinking, hey, we got to do the long play here and we have to, we have to process this thing, or am I so competitive and we'll find out that I'm going to scratch and claw and try to win at all costs, even if it means

put myself behind the eight ball next year with no quarterback, because you would think of any year, this is the year with free agency, with quarterbacks, and although it wasn't the deepest quarterback draft in the world and all the med flaws, you know, they didn't take a stab at anybody. And they draft a safety, by the way, from a tiny school. I know. I don't know much about. It's just an interesting year. And I wonder if they're sticking to the guns

or if they have another shoes going to drop here after the draft. I wonder too. I've thought about it a lot, what they're going to do at quarterback. I mean, I thought maybe Andy Dalton, they don't have the cap space. I thought maybe Cam Newton, it doesn't seem at this point like that's going to happen. Right. Honestly, I don't know. I wish I did.

It would be a good story. I'd tweet it. I don't know. I would have already seen it. Yeah, you would have already seen it. It's like whenever people are like, oh, yeah, just give me a heads up. And like, yeah, no, no, no. No, there's no heads up.

I'll just check the timeline. Here's a team that's really in the sweepstakes for that top spot next year, in my opinion, in Jacksonville. Well, I thought they had a really good draft. I really did. And I kind of wonder where they're going, though, because they can't be serious about winning this year. I'm not on the menshoe train. I'm not. I'm not. Is Jacksonville in a rebuild mode? Are they not in a rebuild mode? And do you have an early favorite for the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes next year? Because I'm looking around the league and I'm saying they have a good as shot as anybody. I hate to sink somebody like it's a compliment. But yeah, it's going to be weird. I mean, we spent a year talking about tank for Tua and then the dolphins didn't tank. And then he was drafted third and they still ended up with him. So awkward.

Um, you know, the weird thing about the Jaguars is I'm not sure that they're bad, you know, because they, they shed some big salaries. Like they got rid of AJ Boyer. They got rid of Colas Campbell, who I love, but who's making $16 million as a 35, you whatever. So, and, you know, and they, they signed some legit free agents, you know, I don't know. I mean, if Minshu is average, then I think the team will be average, which is like eight and eight or nine and seven, which is, you know, far cry from where they were last year. They don't think they're rebuilding.

Everyone else thinks they're rebuilding. They do not think that. So, you know, this is like, honestly, the hardest thing for me when people say, hey, who's going to be bad next year? I'm like, I don't know. They all seem good. Yeah. You know, like, it's just football is a weirdest thing. There's always like two or three teams that suck the year before and then make the same.

the playoffs the next year and they're like, how did that happen? And why didn't I see it coming? And I just don't know. It's anybody's guess. It really is. I want to hit you on one more team and then I'll ask you a broad question about the NFL and get you out of here because I know you got to put the kids to bed. Oakland, okay? They drafted three wide receivers early, like the first team in 38 years to do that. Do they believe in the guy throwing to those wide receivers or will there be some more news that, you know, we didn't expect? Because I don't feel like the Derek Carr-Grudon relationship was ever that great as far as believing in what they have. Yeah, I mean, I would say the thing that like either surprises me slash drives me a little crazy

is that the Raiders allow the Derek Carr wondering to continue. It's really, there's nothing like this anywhere else in the league. Like, you know, you say like, oh, yeah, we want to improve at all positions. Well, you know what the media is going to make of that. Right. They're going to mean, oh, that means Derek doesn't have his job. Well, he's, you know, a better quarterback than half the league, I would say. Definitely a top 15 quarterback in my mind.

He's been your starter for a long time. He's put you in positions to win. Is he perfect? No, he's not, you know, Patrick Mahomes, but he's been pretty good. At what point do you as an organization say, like, can we stop asking this question or unless you're just inviting it? So to me, like the Raiders have invited all the skepticism. And, you know, now they've surrounded him with some weapons.

I mean, the Rugg's pick was so interesting to me because, you know, I'm not sure he was number one for many more teams. And they, they were thrilled to take it. And they got faster and they got. The ghost of Al Davis making that pick. I mean, that was the first thing I thought about. And, you know, they had a good draft last year. So you give Mike Mayock the benefit of the doubt. I do.

Yeah. It's going to be pretty interesting. It will be interesting. And it certainly affected the windfall of receivers and the order with which they came up for board, too. I mean, the drama and the teens. I mean, it gave the Cowboys, you know, CD-Land probably. And stole them from the Eagles, from their division rival. And by the way, the Cowboys, it was like they were running circles around the Eagles.

They got a trade for the Wisconsin Center, I believe it was, and the Eagles allowed that to happen. A lot of people thought that was a steal day two or three or whenever that was. So did you, was there a reason you saw the wide out slipping? Was it just because everybody had a little concern or the needs were too heavy away from the skilled positions in the top 10? I would say, I mean, the draft is so weird. Like I was going through it in my head before the draft and I'm wondering like, all right, which receiver is going to slip, right? Because someone was going to slip. And then I'm like, all right, who else?

So I'm thinking Isaiah Simmons is going to go fall out of the top 10. I'm like, I don't see who takes it. And then the Cardinals take them. It's okay. But anyway, I'm like trying to figure it out. I'm trying to make up for Sean Redick. I did like to pick, though. I was thinking there's no way they're going to take a linebacker without a position again

after doing it twice in the last like five years. What are the chances you get it wrong twice? Right. Dan Buchanan, Redick, and now Simmons is better than all of them. Anyway, I just, I think maybe you had teams like the Jets didn't take a receiver. And I thought they might. So I was like, okay, there's one receiver who's going to fall. And maybe because the group is so, so deep that everyone's like, I'll get one in the second

round. I'll get one in the third, you know. I think that really pushed it back. I think that was the pervasive kind of like mindset. If your guy wasn't, you know, you didn't have to press to take one. And it just kind of, it moved the whole board back. And it'll be, you know, interesting. We mentioned Philly.

That Rager, Jefferson, side by side is going to be in for a few years now because those are two teams that took them back to back. So it was definitely a crossroads. The whole experiment here, which I hope we never have to go through again, but I thought the league did a pretty good job with. And, you know, hats off to media members and all the front office people making this happen. Trey Wingo, I thought, did a great job.

Was there a hiccup that we didn't see? What was the review kind of from a standpoint of all the people in TV and on the league side? Were there any big hiccups behind the scene? It seemed like it was okay. I mean, you know, like Vic Fangio and Les Need both lost Internet at various times, which I think ended up fine. Picks came off without a hitch. You know, people, whatever, there weren't a lot of trades early, but teams were able to make trades if they wanted to. So technology wasn't a problem.

I thought it was, I thought it was good. You know, it wasn't like the most fireworks we ever. ever had in the draft, and it helped that no one had anything to do. So the whole world was watching. I think that, you know, I've been reading a lot of articles today about things you can, you know, everyone seemed to like it. What can we take from this draft to the future? And I feel like if I had to guess that what's going to be taken is more people are going to have cameras in their house. More people are going to get internet setups where we can see families celebrate. Because like, I love the draft. It's literally of all the things we do as a league.

It's my favorite, like the drama, the subterfuge. Like, I love, I love, love, love the draft. And nothing I love more than watching someone like get the call, the family goes crazy. Everyone's like, you know, and like, get on the phone. And they're freaking out like. Or your girlfriend gets pulled off of you by your mother. I mean, that's just. You can't make this stuff up.

People go viral. And I love, never get this again, seeing Cliff's house. You know, Andy Reid's shirt. I love seeing, you know, all these guys comparing their decor in their houses. Like people were bored. We needed them. Even the kids, you know, like all these. I mean, the amount of times when I, for some reason, I get a lot of phone calls

Friday between like during the season, Friday between four and like seven because that's when everyone on various time zones are driving home. So you call me on your way home and then you're like, all right, I'm with my. family and those guys are so excited to get home to their family on Friday night and then get back Saturday back to work. The coaches and GMs around the league were like head over heels in love with being at home. Yeah. It was, I was like, I was like, and their families probably loved it. Rabel's family loved it. Why did Goodell change? Do you know why Goodell changed? I mean, I think literally he was doing housework on Saturday. Because, you know, Saturday,

of the draft like, I'm usually working. This time I was working, but I was home. So like, you know, I had lunch with the boys and my wife, like helping my wife do some stuff and the draft is on. Because, you know, someone picks, you know, the 187 pick. I'm like, all right, like, I don't know. Yeah, he had had enough too. His back was hurt and he was, his knee and stiff.

He had to sit his ass down. He ate a lot of M&Ms. He was very relatable. This was a rare relatable moment for Raj. Last question before I let you go. Best draft, worst draft? I would say... Favorite, least favorite, because I don't want to act like we...

Nobody knows what the hell is going on. Right, no, but, yeah. Assuming no one knows, I would say, I like what the Cowboys did. They were set on taking a defensive player. They were going to take, in my mind, Caleb on Chase on from LSU. And they did what I hope all teams do, which is... CD Lamb is the best player on our board. We have to take the best player on our board.

stay true to our principles and just take them. And then the Cowboys did. Then they got some other really interesting prospects later, big defensive tag. I like. I like Gallantmore. I do. He tested well and all that. But I also thought it wasn't just the numbers with him.

It was the fluidity with which he moved. Yeah, I thought they had a good draft. I put them up towards the top that you got the center. And then the irony of McCarthy investing in CD Lamb in the first round. I know. I know. It can only get worse. I mean, and it was, so in then not saying worse draft because the Packers could have drafted

zero other players and if Jordan Love becomes a starter, then it's the best draft they've ever had. But basically no skill guys in Green Bay. I know you want to run the ball more, but they kind of did this weird fusion of the tomorrow's two quarterback team system and then, you know, just drafting an old school running back. like it's Eddie Lacey again and, you know, and tackle. Yeah, it was bizarre. I think, I don't think you're alone and scratching your head at that one.

So, Ian, thank you so much for the time. A rap sheet in the building, green light. We've got to have you back again, man. This was fun. Awesome. I would love to. It was a blast. Thank you for having me.

And thank you for not being annoyed that I was drinking my beer through the interview. It's all good. It looked good. I might go downstairs and have one now. All right, man. Take it easy. All right. Have a good night.

So that was Ian Rappport. A lot of fun to talk to. Love to have them back another time, and we will. Let's talk about the last dance. All right, so the last dance. That might have been better than last week, if that's possible. This was really cool. This was really, I think, illuminating in a lot of ways,

hearing people talk about that time period. Because, again, when you talk about Michael Jordan, knowing him from your childhood, you didn't understand the landscape in the NBA like an adult fan would. Like how was Michael Jordan perceived in 1990 in real time? I really couldn't tell you. You could hear people talk about it,

but to hear players talk about it to see it laid out this way and understand the power struggle very explicitly was interesting. I mean, you basically had, and they explained it, there's crossroads where in the east, it was kind of like you had to conquer the Cleveland Cavaliers.

And then after they leapfrog the calves, they got a shot at the Pistons, and that took longer. But through it all, it seemed like the themes here were obviously Rodman from a 1998 standpoint, you know, kind of the present day, as it were, as they were filming this documentary, and 98 and then it was Phil and the Pistons really were the two big themes. Phil Jackson, ironically at the time, probably represented more of an impediment than an ally to Jordan. It just seemed like because Jordan was so cool with Doug Collins, which was something I didn't really understand how tight they were. I think a lot of it had to do with that Doug got out of MJ's way. And

just let him do MJ. And at the time, that seemed like a really good relationship for MJ. But, you know, with Tex Winners, Triangle Offense kind of thing, his unselfishness that he was pushing on MJ, you know, which I guess it would be hard to believe for a guy that catapulted the Bulls out of obscurity just on his own back, that now, like, to take the next step and become a champion, and I have to give up being, you know, the guy in every situation.

And that was what Tex was preaching. And that ended up being like Phil's kind of calling card because that's what we learned from. And when they made that move, Phil ended up becoming Jordan's biggest career ally and a guy that got him that first championship and many more after. So it was just interesting, like the way the way MJ would look at it at the time. is probably way different than you look at it now. But that game, and we're talking about the pistons here mostly, but they talked about the finals. They wrapped up the episode with the finals,

and I believe it was game five, the decisive game in that first title run against the Lakers for the Bulls after they had just finally beating the Pistons. Paxton was the one who went on that scoring run. And it was like Jordan had this epiphany, that, okay, there's something to this thing. And so it was almost ironic that he learned to get what he really ultimately wanted, which was a championship.

There would be some concessions that had to be made. And then I think everything shifted, I would imagine, in his mindset, probably for the rest of his career. And we'll see how he kind of couches that going forward. But I thought that was interesting. you know, obviously Rodman and the Pistons. So Rodman being, I think, a lot of young people today, not realizing that Dennis Robbin wasn't just the guy with the dyed hair in Chicago.

He also obviously had his stint in San Antonio, where people my age would remember pretty vividly. But, you know, in the late 80s, he was an absolute dog in Detroit. And it was interesting the way they kind of took us through his little journey. And it seemed like there were two eras for Robben. There was pre-Madonna, post-Madona, pre-San Antonio, post-San Antonio. At least that's the way they made the turning point seem. You know, finishing school, he's thinking, you know, we'll see what happens.

That was kind of his thing. He wasn't at a big school, southeast Oklahoma or whatever it was. 27th pick. Just crazy how low his expectations were for himself and ended up being a steal. And David Aldrich said he was the best on the ball defender he had seen in 30 years. I mean, he had the rebounding thing down to a science. It was so interesting to hear him talk about Larry shoots the ball. It spins a certain way.

I know where it's going to be. Mike shoots the ball. I know where it's going to be, that sort of thing. And he'd have friends just sit in there and shoot the ball, and he would just stand there and react to the trajectory. That was like he had it down to a science. And I guess you wonder how somebody was relatively undersized, besides being tenacious, he was also seemed to be sort of a student of the game

when it came to that, you know, even above his peers. Interesting dude. Obviously, there was a whole psychological thing when he was, and by the way, him and Pippin, holy shit, he used to beat up on Pippin. And then they became like boys from 95 on. But when he was in Chicago, it was quite obvious that he would almost respect Jordan to the point that when Jordan needed him more, that's when he would fall in line more. And obviously that coincided with Pippin being out. So it was interesting to, hear them detail how, you know, his psyche kind of ran on that. And he was at his best when Pippen was gone and he felt more important. And then when Pippen got back, there was a, there was a process there. So super interesting. Also, it's funny when he got back that, I mean, it's clearly fucking dude, we get it. Like you don't want Pippen to come back. He went way too over the top with the hair thing, putting those threes in his hair. Like, dude, everybody knows. you're just overcompensating for the fact that you're not happy.

You're going to be a third wheel now. Also, that shark tattoo that I've never noticed with Scotty Pippen with something else. Yeah, so there's like three different Robbins. They did a good job with that. By the way, I missed those spurs colors big time. I really miss them. The unies now today are too boring, and those spurs colors were electric. But Phil kind of coincided with the robin.

thing because he seemed to be the only one who could understand him at that point. And by the way, the fill sequencing, you know, from the footage of him playing for the Knicks as a reminder to very casual basketball fans, he was a pretty damn good player there, won a couple championships, played 11, 12 years, looked hilarious running around on the court. But, you know, down to his Montana roots, which is interesting to me because where I go in the summer on Flathead Lake, there's actually a lot of basketball players that hang out up there.

Scott Scouts hangs out up there. I met Steve Kerr up there like 15, 20 years ago. Frank Prakowski, obviously you remember Frank for getting into it with Dennis Robman, ironically, in the finals in 96, I think it was, for the Sonics. He was number 40 on that team, big white dude. And then, you know, Phil Jackson's got a place up there as well. and Phil used to come hang out at the hoop fest

which is like the biggest three on three tournament in Montana pretty good basketball actually there and a shameless plug here I did I did place in the dunk contest circa 2004 there a little white dude that looked like Jason Williams that's white chocolate he jumped over like a Mustang

like people in Montana have hops It was crazy. But anyways, Phil hangs out up there. So it was interesting to see the Montana stuff, good player, and obviously had a way about him that was very unique and understood Rodman. And when he called him, Hioka, I about lost my shit. That was the statement. That felt like the moment when Dennis Robman bought in.

He was like, yeah, this dude just gave me an Indian name. I'm sold on Phil Jackson. And then they had the footage of him coaching in Puerto Rico. I mean, that was pretty good producing right there to go get that shit. But the main thing was the Pistons, to me at least. And hearing, you know, Pistons players, including John Sally, who people, again, casual, millennial basketball fans, probably don't remember him as well from that as you might remember.

remember him from a number of things post-basketball. That was a tough fucking group. Holy shit. And the way Brendan Malone, the assistant coach for them that looked like the guy he could work at the florist shop there in South Boston and the town, he described it as, you know, there was definitely a physical mindset and they were going to beat Jordan up and they were going to knock him down. And, you know, like the whole description of Jordan rules, which was like, don't let him take flight.

You could tell that in that time period, he had to figure out, like, this was the first time in his career where it felt like somebody figured him out a little bit. And he had to figure the other group out. And what was born out of that was like a superhuman version of Jordan started lifting weights because of them. The intensity that one season they were talking about it, you just off the charts. So, you know, it felt like early on that at least let Jordan tell it, he was frustrated with the mental and physical toughness for some of his teammates. Like the Horace Grant thing. He kind of made it sound like Horace Grant got punked a little bit, although Horace Grant called the Pistons Bitches. It did sound like there was a tint, you know, a tinge of like he was soft. And, you know, there was the, I don't want to say it was dismissive of Scotty's migraine in game seven.

But he wasn't, he didn't seem like he got it. I mean, it seemed like Jordan was waiting on people to grow up around him. And it was interesting that, you know, before they even got to the Pistons, again, his, and he mentioned this after the second year losing to the Pistons. And there were signs that said, you know, know, maybe next year, Michael, and that sort of thing. Like, he was the guy that could win scoring titles, but not win championships. And that's insane when you look at it through our lens today, where Jordan, for young adults and adults, a whole generation, has never not been the guy.

And so if you didn't know Jordan pre-1991, you could never imagine him having to get a monkey off his back. In fact, it sounded like he described it as finally, which is insane. when you think about it has been almost a decade. And all we know of Jordan is the guy that's always been the king. And, you know, side note, I could also tell that maybe he's not that compassionate towards younger players like LeBron because I got the sense that nobody gave him a break. You know, the pistons walking off the court after they beat him. The hate there.

he still hates Isaiah that was fucking hilarious and to be honest when you look at it they work great sports and Isaiah and them on a lamb beer stupid fucking joke it looked like they weren't even taking it seriously walked off the court and justified it because the Celtics did to them which was lame too and MJ comes out of this thing looking like a fucking good sport by the way Isaiah looks way younger than anybody on the documentary.

It's like some of these guys, I'm like, and Isaiah looks like he's been taking care of himself. Also, Horace Grant, I can't tell if he looks younger or older. It's really weird. But yeah, I mean, before it even came to getting that monkey off Michael's back and beating Detroit, you know, there was Cleveland. There was that hurdle. He mentioned losing them six times out of six.

six opportunities before they beat him in that five game series. And by the way, they kind of glossed over the Jordan missed free throw the game before. It just goes to show you Jordan had some bad moments too. But then he goes on to hit basically two game winners in game five, not just the shot over Elo. There was another one. So, and the funniest thing was hearing Ron Harper might add the line of the whole thing where he's like, whatever, fuck this, when they said, you can't guard Jordan.

And Jordan admitted that he didn't want Ron Harper. He would prefer Elo. And he left and kind of was like, honestly, that was a mistake. So basically it hits two game winners in game five. And they get that burden lifted and eventually, not immediately, go through them beating the pistons. The handshake thing, that was trash. the Jordan rules thing. I mean, that's the way the NBA was.

But again, it was the text winner thing. It was team versus individual. It was, by the way, Krause redeeming himself a little bit in this episode. It was funny because, you know, I think a lot of people watching last week were getting ready to roast Krauss and didn't even realize the man's deceased

and can't defend himself. You know, he died three, four years ago, I think. but as this thing unfolds, it'd be interesting to see how they paint the picture through the meat of the dynasty and then, you know, out the door. But episode two or episode three and four, night two of The Last Dance was kinder to Krauss, especially when you consider, you know, making the Phil Jackson move, you know, the Pippin pick, trade. and then allowing Rodman to join the team after a tumultuous stint in San Antonio. And then, of course, the dancing on the plane, that shit went viral. So Krause definitely comes out looking a lot more, you know, sympathetic in this one. But they do a great job wrapping it up at the end with Paxson hitting shots to close that series out with L.A.

Jordan gets what he wants and to do that, it felt like he had to concede something to text winner to Phil Jackson and bite the bullet on losing somebody who was an ally and Doug Collins and doesn't seem to be comfortable with it as I watched the interview. Doug was kind of squeamish talking about Phil and that sort of thing. And I get it. I mean, that's got to be the weirdest feeling in the world you left right before it was taking the next level. By the way, Doug Collins,

terrific Jerry Curl. It was funny seeing his hair change through the series from the late 80s to the early 90s. So yeah, they did a great job with this one. Again, Cleveland, Detroit, championship, and

we're off to the races. And next week, it looks like we're going to see some of the discord in Chicago. looking forward to it. This was a really good episode. And Jordan, again, proves to be perplexing.

Up and down. You learn some things about him. You're like, yeah, that doesn't seem great. But I end up respecting him in a lot of ways more and more through the series. And I didn't think that was actually possible. I say that because he just seems to be driven authentically by just wanting to win. there is nothing else in the equation. It's not attention.

He's not drunk on his own ego. He's just unapologetically a fucking killer. And he also seemed to be very, in a way, as you watch the interviews and that sort of thing back in the day and people were on him hard. Like he didn't, he seemed to have a nice way of saying, fuck you to the media without just walking up and saying, fuck you.

And he didn't seem overly sensitive. He just saw everything as a challenge in a really, really healthy way. But I couldn't tell how his teammates felt about him. I still can't tell. Like in looking at footage. And it's hard to tell because, you know, if you have a camera around, you're never seen the real pro athlete, like hard knocks, whatever the Eagles just did over the fall.

It's not real. Just like this thing, you know, the real footage. You'll never see because you have to be in the locker room. But it is hard to tell what the dynamic is. I was watching that plane scene after the Super Bowl towards the end of this fourth episode. And I was just like, I don't know. And by the way, that was funny. The dude who he was busting on about single life.

Scott Borell, I looked it up. He got married three years ago. So people were worried that Scott Borell was getting exposed as being some sort of a crazy nightlife guy, can't turn it off guy in the 90s. Well, he has a nice bit of cushion. He just got married two,

three years ago. So Scott Burrell's okay. And Jordan is an asshole, but he is an asshole that I seem to respect more and more, the more I watched this series. So I don't know if that was an under-promise over-deliver thing where Jordan said, you're really going to hate me before the end of this series,

but it hasn't happened yet. A lot of fun. We'll catch it next week. Hope you enjoyed the show. Y'all take care.