Green Light with Chris Long - NFL News on Andy Dalton and Dak Prescott. Last Dance Episodes 5 & 6 Review. Mailbag.

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

0:54 - Open and NFL News. 13:52 - Last Dance Episodes 5 and 6 Review. 1:11:05 - Mailbag. 1:39:50 - Mailbag's Best Question. Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Happy Monday. I'm your host, Chris Long. This is the Greenlight Pod. Thanks for joining me. I've got a few things to talk about today. Got to talk about Andy Dalton. Got to talk about Dak Prescott. We are going to hit some extensive mailbag coverage. Thanks to the wonderful listeners from Twitter who submitted some really good questions. We'll put that on the tail end. The meat and potatoes here is going to be the last dance. Episode. five and six. I ran out of gas last night, guys, okay? I'm just going to be honest with y'all.

I was supposed to record after the last dance to get it out to you early Monday morning. I didn't have the endurance to get through the weekend. I took my son Whalen out camping for the first time in his life. There was not a lot of sleeping going on. It was a great experience. It was awesome.

You know, I set up a brand new six-person tent. I've never been a, like a family tent guy. And if you've ever owned a tent for the first time you set it up, I'm sure there's some people out there, some really crunchy people out there that can set tents up, no problem. I have trouble assembling the simplest children's toys, let alone a tent that comes in from North Face and has 50 parts and fits a family of six people in it. I struggle with the assembly. I put it together. We were camping up on a mountain top.

And all of a sudden, the wind starts blowing pretty bad. So I have to, now I promise my four-year-old that this is going to be his first night camping in the tent. He's been hanging out in the tent all day long. I do have a camper van. I'm lucky. So I pull that bad boy up. we change we change gears we go down the mountain and we find a spot that doesn't have any wind but it's 9 30 10 o'clock and waylon is basically uh drunk at this point with fatigue uh and dad doesn't get

to bed till like 2 a.m i don't sleep real well in the van but he had a blast first camping trip in the books but needless to say it derailed my sunday uh and i was supposed to record last night again So apologies for the lunchtime, midday release. But I have a life, you know. So apologies. Let's look into the Andy Dalton situation real quick. That was the big NFL news. In fact, this was Saturday night.

I went camping and my phone turned on in the middle of the night. And I saw the news and I saw that Twitter was going crazy. A lot of people think Dax's losing his job. A lot of people think this is a message. Everybody just fucking relax. Andy Dalton is a fine quarterback. He is a guy who's probably a middle of the pack guy at this point. And I think people throw around the word average a lot when you talk about Andy Dalton.

And I think it's a little bit unfair because in some ways he is average. But relatively speaking, you know, I mentioned this on I think the last pod. There's 32 quarterbacks, you know, on the planet that can get the job done at a competitive. level, if that. I mean, usually every year, the bottom third a league is in flux about who your starter is. There's only a few franchise quarterbacks. If you want to call him average in a range of franchise quarterbacks, I think that's

what he has been in the last five, ten years. But Andy Dalton has gotten the Cincinnati Bengals to playouts four times. Now, he laid eggs in those games or the Bengals laid eggs offensively. He did not ever have the weapons that somebody like Dak had. but to just completely shit on Andy Dalton and use average in this pejorative way, you know, minimizes the work that he did in a city that post-190 is not known for a lot of winning when it comes to football. Now, he also was paired with Marvin Lewis, whether or not you think that's a good thing. I don't think it's a great thing.

You know, O for four in the playoffs, that's a. real thing. He's definitely older. Listen, this guy is a backup at this point in Dallas. That's what they're bringing him in to do. They're bringing him in to be possibly the Nick Foles to Dak Prescott, a guy that if shit hit the fan for a game or two, obviously you wouldn't want to have to go on a Super Bowl run with Andy Dalton. But if shit hit the fan for a game or two, Dallas thinks their window is wide open. So if they, if their starter goes down for a game or two, what's that worth to you to get those one, two wins, that could be home field advantage. You're going to tell me that's not worth the $3 million guaranteed that this guy's going to get paid. Seven million tops. Des Bryant called it

out of line. I disagree. I think, you know, he is being protective of a guy that he respects and Dak Prescott. Certainly, I respect Carson Wentz. And the last week or two, you know, since the draft, there's been a lot of takes swirling around the selection of Jalen Hertz in the second round. What do you think about that? I think it depends on what you think of Carson Wentz. I think Carson Wentz is the franchise quarterback in Philly, and I think it was a little high to reach for an unproven commodity. Contrast that with Andy Dalton's situation in Dallas.

Listen, it's rare that a quarterback like that is available in May. And if you're looking at the Eagles model, you're looking at the Matt Moore situation last. year in Kansas City. If Kansas City didn't win that game over Minnesota, you saw how close that race was in the AFC. What does that mean? We saw New Orleans and Bridgewater. Backup quarterbacks matter in this league. And, you know, I know I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, for those of you who aren't into nuance, but with Jalen Hertz, you're looking at a guy who is an unproven commodity in the league, and you used the two on a Rasa. It's very imperfect to snag the guy.

like the guy. I think he might be just a fine developmental piece, although it was funny that how he used Russell Wilson to justify picking him in the second round while simultaneously getting it out there that he was close to picking Russell Wilson in 2012. I just think there are different situations. You know, Andy Dalton is a guy that you are not sinking draft capital into. You're paying him $3 million. You have a quarterback, and the reality here is a quarterback that we don't know if he'll show up to the very abbreviated possibly version of training camp. You don't know how long, you know, hidden sitting out last.

You don't know how long this contract situation lasts. So it's insurance. If you want to take it as a message, it can be a message. It is leverage. I don't think the primary reason for bringing in. Andy Dalton is in his leverage or a message, but those things can be accomplished just by the presence of a competent quarterback. You know, this is a guy that could win Dallas games with the talent that they have around

Dak and Andy if he had to step in. But, you know, one of the leads here that I think is getting buried a little bit is that the Bengals kind of fucked him. This is a bad, bad look for the Bengals. This is a guy that's giving you a lot. He's been all class. and you release him now. He doesn't have a lot of opportunities.

This also tells us something about the New England situation. It just tells us how comfortable they are with Stenham. I mean, this was a guy that if the Patriots were going to make a move in free agency, you know, Andy Dalton was, and I know that a lot of people would think that Cam Newton was a better option than Andy Dalton. A lot of people believe that that would be the better fit in New England. So they passed him up. We'll see if they passed Cam up. I'm gathering that they're really serious about starting the season with Stidim.

And it doesn't shock me. But this is what we can glean from this. One, the Cowboys need a backup quarterback. They're valuing that. They learn from Matt Moore. They learned from Teddy Bridgewater. They learned from Nick Foles. It's rare that a quarterback like that's available in May.

And it's not going to cost you much. You're not sinking draft capital into it. So we'll see. if it pays off. I think at some point it might. I think the Cowboys are looking also at last year's second meeting with the Eagles and saying, Dak was not in great physical shape

in that game. He has been a mainstay for us. He hasn't missed games, but these things are going to come up. They're not going to come up less as this quarterback gets older, and he does play a physical style relative to other quarterbacks. It's not like he's not a pocket passer, but he does like to, you know, tuck it and run and get the extra yardage. They have run some Reed stuff in the past with him.

Andy Dalton just ensures that if Dax stubs his toe, you're not going to lose the game that week. And not losing the game that week could go a long way and securing things like home field advantage, which could be the difference for Dallas to finally get the big one after what feels like almost a lifetime now since the Cowboys of the mid-90s. So I don't think it's a big deal. It's definitely worth addressing.

And it's a good fit for Andy Dalton. Guys from Texas, sometimes I talk to a couple quarterbacks that I played with in the league. And they said sometimes, you know, in a situation like Andy Dalton's, it's nice to get that breath of fresh air for a year reset. He's going to have another opportunity to get paid somewhere in a year. The quarterback landscape could be a lot more friendly next year. You know, it's different from what James is doing because I think James is going to have an opportunity to actually compete for that Saints job whenever. If all goes well and they like James there and his energy in the building and, you know, the learning curve is right. You could look at a situation down the line where James is competing for succeeding Drew Brees because I don't think they're going to be picking at the top of the draft.

I mean, the Saints, we expect to be very good. And I don't know if Drew's going to play one, two more years, but for James, there's more upside in that situation. Whereas Andy's taking a year, and in a year he can reassess and hit the market if he so chooses. There will be opportunities. The guy has been, you know, to my point earlier, a solid quarterback in the league. And I don't mean that to say he's average, because if you take all the quarterbacks in the league into account, think it's a big misnomer. If you're the 15th best quarterback in the league, you are not average.

You know, the quarterbacks do not grow in trees. The depth drop off from QB1 to QB2 is huge. I know that some people might say, hey, well, there's 32 quarterbacks. If you're in the middle, you are average. Well, that's not necessarily true because the drop off is so huge after that top 15. You can't compare the 15th quarterback and the 25th quarterback. The 15th quarterback in the league could have a job for five, seven years in one place, trying to figure out if he'll ever become the top five to seven type guy. If you're in the top 15, it just means that you know, you're either performing at a top 15 level or you have some skill set or some highs that lead people to believe that you could catapult into that top five to seven. So again, Andy Dalton being average,

sure, this is semantics, I know, but I just I just think that sometimes we underappreciation. Andy Dalton and what he was able to do in Cincinnati. Now, what he was also not able to do was win a playoff game and laid eggs in those games. And DAC has been better in the playoffs. So, again, not a threat to DAC. If Cowboys fans feel threatened by this for on, on DAC's behalf, they are more sensitive than I thought because this is Dax team if he wants it to be. I suspect that he will be under center for the Cowboys in 2020,

depending on what 2020 looks like and hopefully they can get this contract thing resolved, at least where DAC feels like he's okay to go out and play because he is an exciting player and he's a big part of what the Cowboys do. But I also think that this might be one of those things

that the Cowboys are saying you know, Dak is a big part of why we win but he's not why we win. I don't think it's one of those situations. It's certainly not a Mahomes situation. It's certainly not a situation on a team like with Deshawn Watson where if we took him out of the equation and replaced him, the entire thing would crumble. You could win a few games with Andy Dahl. But intent here is just to have a really solid backup quarterback.

The opportunity was too much to pass up. So on the last dance. That's the meat and potatoes of this pod. Let's get to it. Again, I was supposed to record at midnight after the last dance, but I'm a lazy. podcaster. I deserve a slap on the wrist. I'm being accountable. This is me sitting at my locker saying maybe I didn't run that extra sprint. Maybe I didn't do that extra extra wrap or extra set. And I felt a little bit short tonight. This is me being accountable to the faithful of the

Greenlight Pod. I should have had this pod to you by 9 a.m. I'm sorry, I'll be better. But I was tired. Again, dad life can wear on you. And I do have two jobs. So this, episode five was cool. It bounced around. It was kind of a journey, um, through Jordan's branding process. You know, in, in the late 80s, it was one thing when he was a rising star in the league. But I mean, his brand took off in the 90s. And, you know, they, they hit the all-star game, which was cool to start out. And there was Kobe. That was very, very interesting to see Kobe.

For the first time, new footage of an interview since he's passed. That was surreal. It was weird. It was sad. You also saw a lot of David Stern, who since passed away. But you also saw, as I mentioned, the branding thing, the Adidas slip up, letting Jordan Walk to Nike. Converse missed the boat as well.

You go through the Dream Team stuff. But there was brand awareness in that conversation with the Reebok logo which Jordan didn't like. There was the Gatorade commercial. They talked about politics. That's the big black eye on Michael Jordan's legacy. For me, at least,

you know, the gambling thing that people talk about. A lot of it, I don't know how substantiated it is. And they hit that as well, mostly in episode. six, but five was like kind of a backdrop to six where they set a lot of the turmoil up with Jordan struggles with fame, the branding stuff. There was a Seinfeld and Jordan interaction. It was super awkward and hilarious.

So I learned a lot in five and six. A lot of it was what happened off the court. Certainly there were cool sequences where you could relive some meaningful series, the Eastern Conference Finals. You relived the dream team, which, by the way, some of the footage there was the coolest footage maybe in the entire series. But it was a lot about Jordan the brand and Jordan's struggles personally and how much that spilled over onto the court and into the locker room. So it kind of starts with Kobe and the 98 All-Star game. That was kind of a changing of the guard period.

And that's what it felt like, at least to an NBA fan, because obviously Jordan was on his way out. And younger players were on their way in. Kobe was one. And Kobe mentioned this. He mentioned that it was an older league then. And it seemed tougher, you know, unimaginably tough for Kobe, with that pressure being one of the first high school kids

to take this thing on and really excel. And he mentioned this. It was an older league back then. And in the NFL, it's like that as well. It's a younger league now. When I got in the league in 2008, the way the contract situations have changed, the way teams have increased an importance on draft capital,

and it's not as important to have vets in the locker room. You could feel like it was an older league back then. Like I could tell it was, and hearing Kobe say that, and kind of the struggles that presented to him as a young player, is just interesting. It was a different landscape and also

as sad and weird and surreal as it was to see Kobe being interviewed new footage for the first time since he's passed away. It didn't even seem real,

but one thing that was interesting was Kobe sounded like a kid. He really sounded inquisitive. Everybody knew he was inquisitive and that sort of thing, but when he was talking about MJ, he, it's just, his tone was different.

You know, when I heard Kobe talk, when you'd hear Kobe interviewed or speaking on a subject, he just seemed like he was, he was the black mama. Like, he had this elevated way of thinking. He was curious, but he was decisive as well. When he was talking about Jordan,

there was just a different feel to it. I don't know what it was. I couldn't put my finger on it. It was, this was Kobe, this was a vulnerable Kobe. Even presumably this interview occurred in the last year. And Kobe has fully matured into a retired NBA legend who's branching off into a ton of different avenues. And he's Uber successful. And he's kind of like, he's kind of like the all-knowing,

guy who's had a ton of experiences, won championships. But talking about Jordan, you're hearing him talk about somebody that he would probably count as his superior, which is interesting. You don't hear Kobe talking that tone a lot. And it came out. It sounded like he was a kid describing something. And, you know, the footage in the locker room was hilarious

because they were calling him Little Laker, boy. Like when you look back on it, it's just crazy because I knew they knew that he was going to be good, but you just, you don't know how history is going to unfold until it does. And, uh, you know, those words Jordan said, I'll see you down the road. They were deep. Um, and I don't know that anybody would have seen that miced up segment in 1998 and realized the depth of those comments that these two would be inextricably linked. Now, Jordan's in my opinion superior to Kobe in his legacy but it ain't by a mile and those two guys in the way that Kobe model his game

after Jordan in a lot of ways the killer instinct the gold standard competitively these two guys are linked forever and how prophetic was that little interaction and kind of sad now to look at it.

But it was weird seeing Kobe knowing he's not here. And also reminding us that that was a couple months ago, golly, how much shit has happened since then? It feels like a year ago. Just a nice little wrinkle in there to get the Kobe stuff in there. And they dedicate the episode to him. You also had David Stern. who since passed away as well.

And then they get into the Adidas stuff. I mean, huge slip-up. Adidas is essentially the fucking blazers. That's what it is. They had a chance at Jordan. They passed on it. Converse passed two. Converse.

The lineup was too, the lineup was too stacked for them to fit Jordan. And they thought, but even Nike was taking a flyer on Jordan. I mean, it wasn't like it was a slam dunk for Nike. No pun intended there. By the way, with the all-star game, let me not skip over the electric Rick Smith's cameo. If anybody else saw Rick Smith's in that All-Star game picture,

that was the first thing that jumped out at me. What's funny to me is Rick Smith, as you watch this old footage, I'm sure some of y'all who are relatively younger like me are saying, man, people like John Starks. Okay, John Starks, to me, and I was a Knicks fan growing up, had a really tough presence as a teenager. I'm looking at John Starks. He looks like a tough guy.

Now I look at John Starks, and the footage of him as a 20-something-year-old, I'm like, this guy looks soft in the face. And by the way, with the 98 All-Star game, Rick Smith's had a great cameo appearance. I never realized he looked so young. To me, he always looked old. He always looked like this old Danish sailor that was just ripping cigarettes, probably 55 years old in my preteen brain. That was Rick Smith. Now, he was only nine years, ten years older than me.

I mean, he still is. Obviously, that's the way things work. But in that picture, I think he was 22. And I would have been 13 at the time in 98. And to me, Rick Smith just looked old as fuck. Same thing with John Starks. John Starks looked like a tough guy to me, a grown man. looking back at this footage of him as somebody younger,

he had a soft face. It's just crazy to see this old footage. And Rick Smith's had a cameo that was absolutely electric. Only a couple seconds, awkwardly smiled, laughed at a joke. And then I think he got up out of his stool to give it up for somebody else. So shout out to Rick Smith. I wonder where he is today. Adidas.

You know, that was the lead here with the shoes. It wasn't Nike, really. To me, it was that Adidas is the blazers of shoe companies. They had a shot of Jordan. They can get him. Converse passed up on him too. It was cool seeing Larry Bird get a couple bars off in that Converse commercial. Super, super awkward.

He was hyped to be in that commercial with those guys. And Nike was mostly a track outfit. but they took a chance. You know, Nike thought $3 million in 84, and it went to $126 million. So good investment. You know, the Jordan song that was supposed to be from the Jungle Book, it was supposed to be, they were going to take the song, I want to be like you from the Jungle Book, and it was going to cost them $350K.

How about they got it right for less? They do their own music. I want to be like Mike. How iconic has that become? How great and fruitful has that Nike deal become for Nike? Three million in expectations, 126 million they make on that investment. And how about that first deal in 84 was $2.5 million for Jordan. Now he's done deals in excess of, we're approaching $2 billion with it, you know, off the court stuff.

Which begs the question, to me, he's got to be the hardest working billionaire. history, right? No billionaire has ever worked harder than Michael Jordan. You know, I'm sure there's some guy who just did mountains of cocaine in New York, upstairs in his office at the stock exchange, and like rob people blind for billions of dollars, white collar type shit, probably was up late, a lot of adder all, sleep deprivation, sacrificed his family life. I'm sure there's billionaires who have people in the back, make lots of money, and that road has to be incredibly stressful, I'm sure, to be a backstabbing asshole billionaire. But to be Michael Jordan, you had to work, you know, dig deep for the better part of 25 years

from everything from high school to UNC to the Bulls and everything that came with it, the time away from basketball, the death of his father, you know, eight years trying to climb the mountain. And by the time he had won a few of those championships, and they talked about it earlier in the series, he's in his office turning down million-dollar deals. Like millions and millions of dollars, he's turning down in one meeting,

and he ends up making now almost $2 billion. dollars. Hardest working billionaire in the history of the world, unless you all can think of a harder working one. I certainly can't. And the funniest soundbite from that whole shoe deal conversation was, quote, Jordan is as hot as a cabbage patch kid right now. That was pulled from some news B-roll from the mid-90s. That just goes to show you, I'm sure a lot of people, cabbage patch dolls. That feels like the 1860s when those came out.

A lot of people watching that now don't even remember cabbage patch kids. I remember those dolls. Everybody had them. They were like the 90s version of Furbies. If you remember Furbies, Furbies were like the hottest thing. I think it was like in the early 2000s.

They sold out. People were like spending their last dollar to buy their kids Furbies. That was Cabbage Patch Kids. Jordan era. So they move on to the 92 NBA finals. And that was where Jordan and the Blazers faced off. Wilbon said 92 he thought was the best Bulls team ever.

So more bad luck for one of the unluckiest franchises in pro sports, the Blazers, you know, passing on George. Jordan passing on Durant, then getting a shot at another shot at the finals and, you know, Jordan's in the way. It just didn't seem like they could catch a break. BJ Armstrong's talking about that series. By the way, he looks 10 years old. But Michael versus Clyde in 92 for a repeat, you know, Jordan said Clyde was a threat. That was the language. And it's an interesting terminology. And it gives you a little window into the way Jordan thinks.

at this time Jordan had one championship you know he was already thinking himself as sitting atop a throne and Clyde was a threat you know for Jordan it was denial of what he had and in his mind I don't know how much Jordan's mindset

probably changed from championship one to championship six but in his mind the entire time he had something worth protecting And that was that alpha male status in his mind, that champion, that championship mindset. And he said it, Clyde was a threat. He was already actively protecting that throne. He was offended to be compared to him.

He said that. And we talked to Clyde a few weeks ago on this podcast here about those comparisons. This was Jordan finding motivation. You know, Michael and Magic were hanging out. before the finals. And that was an interesting conversation that that magic detailed. It just went to show that Mike was, you know, had the ultimate motivation in every situation. And, you know, obviously they go on to win that series and Jordan in the shrug game.

And it wasn't much of a test for them to cap the whole thing off, the most mind-blowing moment, moment in the entire conversation was Kraus, just lauding the organization while diminishing the role of the players in that sound bite. So whereas week two was a week where Kraus is trending up, week three of this documentary is one where Kraus is trending down. That quote right there was absolutely bullshit. I noticed some it might have seemed benign looking at it, but essentially what he was saying was, you know, hey, hey, hey, look at the organization. Let's not look at the players.

You know, there's a way to praise the organization without putting down players. And he did not take that route. He kind of minimized, relatively speaking, the job that those guys on the court did. Now, the dream team. Okay, so this was fun. You're coming off the 92 series. I know Jordan's tired. He's doing the dream team thing. They hit the Isaiah thing, which was obviously Isaiah didn't make the dream team in 92. Jordan claims that he wasn't the reason Zeke sat it out. You know, I don't know if I believe that or not. I know that Jordan couldn't stand him.

That's come through very clearly in this series. Listen, there was Larry Bird, there was Pippin, there were more guys on the team. It could have been any of them. They detailed the reasons that it could have been any of them. them. But did Jordan really not say anything? Because the way they they asked him, Jordan said that by the time they asked him about the dream team, he asked who's on the team and they volunteered the information that Isaiah didn't make the team. I don't know if I believe that sequencing. Was Jordan one of the guys back then? Or could he really make that call in a room full of legends? I don't know. I would

suspect that it was Jordan, it was Larry, it was a few of them. I don't know that Jordan could have done that alone, but I don't believe that he didn't have a role in getting Isaiah off that dream team. Now, the practice footage was some of the best footage in sports history that nobody really sees on a regular basis. You know, you have Malone, Magic, Michael, all those guys on the court together practicing for the Olympics. And the best sequence to me of the evening happens from a sports perspective, from an on the court perspective, save for some of the highlights we saw in six from the 93 finals,

because that was well done. But this was Magic and Michael. And first off, you kind of felt a little tension because this was like a changing of the guard time period where, you know, Magic and the Celtics and the Lakers ran the 80s, obviously. And this was now beginning to be Michael's time. And Magic and Michael joking in the press room, I picked up on something a little bit when Magic busted Jordan's balls about getting called. is Jordan doesn't seem to take jokes for a while. When Jordan tells a joke, everybody laughs. When somebody jokes about Jordan, he doesn't take it real well.

And like, we're all sensitive. I don't know if that was sensitivity or that was something in particular with the rivalry between magic and Michael, although they seem like great friends. And Jordan seemed to be the type that would keep his enemies closer. I don't think he thought of magic as an enemy. But at the end of day, anybody who was trying to be better than Michael Jordan was an enemy on some level. And I think you saw that in the practice where, you know, there's some back and forth,

there's some back and forth. Magic teams up. They're going to run Michael's team out of the gym. And he talks about pissing Michael off in the way Michael storm back. But when Michael and Magic got into it and this was recorded on the video, Michael's saying, this is the 90s. That might have been the line of the episode. And then, of course, magic responds, what's that supposed to mean?

Every now and again in trash talk between athletes and people, but I've been on a bunch of teams. Athletes are competitive. They talk shit to each other. It could be in a locker room. It could be shooting pool. It could be on the field. It could be in stretch, especially when there's an audience.

And there was an audience in that room. You start to see it kind of slowly. there was an audience in that gym, you start to see it kind of slowly bubble up. And then there's this point where one of these alpha males is feeling very challenged. And Jordan felt challenged. And Jordan's thing was to go for the neck verbally.

And to me, the way I took, this is the 90s in that gym full of dudes who are spectators to these two kind of, okay, like the trash talk was playful. now it's serious. Okay, it might have just got very serious. This is the 90s to me means that, you know, your time's past. This is my time.

And magic asking, what's that supposed to me? I think you know exactly what that meant. And in a game of alpha males, Jordan had become the alpha. And that was like beating up the biggest guy. Like that was like walking in the room and beating the show the biggest guy. So everybody else doesn't fuck with you. that was Jordan attacking who he identified as the alpha male and who was coming at him on a level seemed like friends but there's a thin tension that you could feel where they were

competing for the same spot and that was that was a strength of the episode that footage you know that exchange was very real and of course nothing came of that. They said when they got on the bus, everything was cool, but you got to feel like magic felt that comment. You can't get mad and stay mad over a comment like that because you look funny. But those are the comments that when everybody's watching and stretch line in the locker room on the field and people are like, oh shit, what's about to happen with these two alphas? That conversation was very telling about where Jordan's head was at that point. Then there was Ku Koch. Tony Kukotch, Tony Kukok, as Barkley said.

I mean, like, people could not get his name right. I don't know if we've been getting Kukoch wrong, but it seemed like people were calling him Kukach back in the 90s. I don't know if that's the responsible Croatian pronunciation. By the way, Croatia, war-torn at that point. But if you Google Croatia, I mean, that is a beautiful country. Beautiful country. some remarkable landscape.

I mean, crystal clear blue water, castles and shit on the ocean. It looks like where they filmed, and I think they did, a lot of Game of Thrones. I mean, they got nice yachts and stuff, cool old cities, Croatia. That's on my bucket list.

Tony Kukoch, Kukach, as Barkley called him. People really hated Tony. You could just feel it. I think part of it had to be the Bull stuff in general. But I also think that, and by the Bull stuff, I meant Krause seemingly, and again, this was a theme that happened over and over again and has happened over and over again. Guys talking about Krauss having affinity for players on other teams, like Dan Marley comes up later, and we'll get to that.

But, Cooch, you know, Krauss was. into Tony and actually held up Scotty's negotiation to negotiate with Tony. They were calling him the left-handed, I think it was left-handed Larry Bird. He was the hottest young thing at this point. And he was white and he was European. I think that part of why guys probably didn't like him had to do with that as well. And it was unfair that people were judging him based on Kraus's affinity for him because there's nothing he did wrong.

He was just being Tony Kukov. But man, the fire, and again, this is Jordan and those guys, figuring out motivations, the fire that was just captured to me, there was like a three-second grainy piece of footage of Jordan scowling against Croatia. And it was just the most iconic fucking thing that I saw on the night, like visually. they hated him. You could feel it. Scotty said he couldn't play in the league.

It was palpable. But game two, Tony came back. He bawled. He earned respect. And I haven't seen a lot of Tony in this entire series. And this is something that for me, I kind of missed this dynamic of tension between Tony and Pippen and Michael

and I hope they get to a little bit more in the latter years of the 90s, how that worked out as teammates. But you could tell from the beginning, they were not fans of Tony. And then there was the Reebok covered flag thing. Okay, so they wanted the guys to show the Reebok logo prominently in the Dream Team gold medal picture.

Jordan didn't want to do it. It was interesting. Somebody said in the doc that Jordan had took that same competitive spirit, that same protective nature that I talked about earlier to his corporate sponsorship. Like if you had Jordan under your corporate umbrella, he was going to fight for you. And he fought for Nike and he was protective of Nike. The thought of working that hard to be on that big.

stage and having to wear some Nike or some Reebok just rubbed them wrong and it was so funny to me Jordan in the car calling Schiller an asshole who's making him wear Reebok Jordan was up in the front seat reading like a newspaper or reading like what did Jordan do in cars like nowadays Kevin Durant's in a car he's got his phone he's got music it's probably a limo. Jordan was like in the front right seat of a sedan. You know, like today it's Uber black. You've got headphones. You've got your AirPods.

Nobody's bothering you. I know they were shooting a documentary. But Jordan is sitting in the front right seat of a sedan reading the papers or something. It's just the 90s, man. It was different. Like what did Jordan think about in the car? Like what did Jordan listen to? He put a CD on.

Michael Jordan, the greatest of all time, slid a CD into his CD player on the way to games. Or if somebody was driving him, he read the newspaper. It's fucking crazy. Just how different it was. You had the Gatorade commercial, which was, of course, an intro into one of the toughest parts of the entire series, which if you know Jordan and you talk about him off the court, obviously he plays it safe.

He's more of a brand conscious guy. but he avoided the politics. He avoided some of the tougher issues, and they hit that. I wondered if they would hit it and how in depth they would hit it. Jordan addressed it directly, but it started with the Gatorade commercial. Because the Gatorade commercial, and by the way, those glass bottles, Gatorade was so tasty out of those glass bottles. Tastier, though, out of the aluminum bottles.

Have you ever had an aluminum bottle of Gatorade, like out of the machine? like a Coke can type thing. Best Gatorade of all time. Also, where is citrus cooler? That was a fixture in that era. Again, Gatorade commercial, iconic, and elevated him to a new level. But he didn't want to talk about politics.

When his fame was skyrocketing, he was met with an opportunity. And he missed the opportunity, depending on what you think. Now, guys running against each other in North Carolina, he had a clear racist and somebody who was trying to do something unprecedented in that state for a black politician and they're running against each other and all they want um jordan to do is endorse gant and and he can't do it um now listen i think that for jordan it's it's absolutely a black eye on his legacy um but not like Listen, there's been thousands of athletes who we revere and love who never open their mouth up on any topic. What it is is, you know, black guy might be strong, disappointing.

It's disappointing. What you would want would be that the greatest would be more like an alley. Depending on who you are. You know, I'm sure some people are like, yeah, Jordan is the gold standard for sticking to sports. Okay, that's, that's your bag. like I would love to have seen Jordan B a little bit more at least minimally engaging in that arena and this guy that he had an opportunity to endorse

Gant was running against the dude who was a very clear racist and by the way I saw this last night on Twitter that Beaumani posted this New York Times article Lou Holtz had to resign from the Arkansas job because he had it endorsed Helms. This was the dude who was very openly a racist running against Gant in North Carolina.

And that's an interesting little nugget there as you look at that harmless old man on seemingly harmless up there with Mark May and those guys through most of the 2000s on that set. Interesting history of endorsing political candidates. Listen, with Jordan, not everybody is ready to be the spokesperson.

Maybe Jordan wasn't, you know, was great in a commercial with three lines, but the thought of talking about a subject like that freehand was intimidating. It is intimidating to talk about politics as a player. But this wasn't like an invitation to become an activist. This was just endorse a guy in a race that was very clear what was at stake in his home state. And he didn't do it. And I think it was a missed opportunity. I think had he done it, he'd have saved himself a lot of heartache.

He'd also be doing the right thing. But I also think it's worth pointing out that we never say we hate bird or magic or Pippin or whoever else. In fact, we gave Barclay a lot of grief for saying he wasn't a role model in the 90s. But these guys didn't get involved politically or socially from an active. standpoint. I don't know what in the 90s you wanted guys to do. Now, Jordan said that he, he made a contribution to the Gant campaign. That's great. But again, disappointing that the gold standard on the court couldn't be the gold standard off it when it came to this stuff. now everybody can't be everything

and you know I would rather a guy do nothing than not be great talking about those subjects those are complicated subjects but this was not a complicated thing again we weren't asking Jordan to run for office

I think people were just asking that he stood up for the right thing and he didn't and Obama this was the funniest part to me it was Obama said 400 words to say he's disappointed, but he couldn't just say it clearly. You could just feel the Chicago and the politician in him. He just could not get it out.

It was like, yeah, well, you know, I could see how. But I could also see how, no, I mean, like Jordan was disappointing for not speaking out on something like Gant's race. And also you can acknowledge that it's not for everybody to talk about stuff like this. But that doesn't minimize the fact that Jordan missed a big opportunity. And it's part of who Jordan is. And his legacy is that he was not somebody who took on these activist-type roles. And again, that's not for everybody, but it's a fact.

Jordan was not that person. It was also interesting that Jordan just about said that he's not a role model on the tail end of his commercial run. And Charles Barkley said it out loud and got just crushed for it. And you can say you cancel Jordan over this and, you know, Jordan's so disappointing and I'll never respect him because of this. I read a lot of that on Twitter, but you're sitting there watching the last dance like millions and millions of other people. And you're buying the shoes and, you know, it hasn't hurt him at all. So the moral story is just look elsewhere for political takes and activism.

him. You can't force a player to be interested in what you're interested in. And if he's not, it turns out the society will still embrace him because we have embraced Jordan to the tune of $2 billion. And missing the boat on stuff like this has not stopped it. Now, the episode's almost done. They're talking about Jordan struggles with fame. Jordan said he's not a role model, kind of, you know, we miss the opportunity on Gantt. Um, you get Seinfeld and Jordan, which was super awkward. They're kind of building this, this case for why Jordan was quite frankly, just burn out and exhausted in episode six.

Um, it shows you how famous he was where if Jerry Seinfeld walks in to meet you before game, like Jerry's this little fan boy and, uh, Jordan's like entertaining him like he would entertain somebody that comes in and spends five minutes with you like a kid that wants an autograph. Jordan was on another level of fame. Like there was no equal. And that had to be awkward.

That had to be exhausting. And episode six opens up with sad Jordan, the part where you're supposed to decide if you feel sorry for somebody with a perfect life. And I did. I did feel sorry for him. Because, listen, I could never imagine the scale of exposure, Jordan, even in the 90s, where it wasn't as bad as now, camera phones, 24-hour news cycle, all that stuff. Jordan couldn't do anything.

I was a pro athlete, okay? So, like, I know what a little bit of visibility is like just a little bit. And it can suck at times. Like, it's awesome, but it can also suck. And, you know, when he said, I'm confined to this room, it wasn't an exaggeration. He's laying on that couch, and that's the only place that he can get any peace. If you're Michael Jordan, where do you go? You have the best life in the world.

I'm not sitting here saying Jordan had it tough or pro athletes have it tough. But consider for a second something I think is very normal and played 11 years in the NFL and not being anywhere near the level of stardom as some of my teammates, or let alone the level of stardom of basketball players. You're talking about playing your sport without a helmet. That's unimaginable. But yeah, I mean, like there's certain things you just can't do in the same way. I've always tried to live my life normally, relentlessly normally,

and there's downsides to that. And at times you get exhausted with that shit. Like, I want to go to the bar and drink beer. my friends and you spend half the night talking to strangers. You know, you you engage in all the conversations. You enjoy meeting people, but you just have to accept the fact that you're held to a different standard socially than anybody else. And for a Jordan, I could not imagine him trying to leave the house to do anything, gas station, department store, like anything, leave your house. if you don't have that big mansion and that big backyard, where do you go?

Where do you spend time? How do you get outside? You can't go to the park. Michael Jordan was it, dude. And for him being confined to that room was very real. Now, you know, maybe that's why relationships with people like the sniffers were born, like the guys, the security guards. By the way, there's the one legendary guy.

I was reading and started to read an article about him. He passed away a couple years ago. I forget the name. Was his name again? Read? I don't have it in my nose. Yeah. So the main dude that's gone viral, John Michael Wozniak,

he with the mullet and the glasses, who did the Jordan shrug when they were playing that stupid game with the coin on the wall. He passed away in January. I'm sure he would have loved to see his big role in this because Twitter has noticed. But, you know, Jordan had friendships like that. I don't know that his friendships with guys on his team were any different than his friendships with those guys. He was guarded.

Like, it just felt like because of the lifestyle he had to live, because of being Michael Jordan, it was just different. And, you know, that little window into his friendship with those. guys also was a window into his competitive nature off the court. You know, it's one of the biggest clichés talking about pro athletes is the stories where

they're like, oh, he wouldn't let you win at anything, be a board game, this, that, and third. And we're all competitive pro athletes, but I think a lot of those get exaggerated. Michael, it was not an exaggeration. When that, when Wozniak did the Jordan Shrug

to him the funniest fucking line of the whole series was go protect the damn United Center. He was like, just get out of here. Motherfuckers, like, you're not supposed to beat me at anything. And he was seriously bothered in that situation.

He was so over it. I mean, and then we go into the sequence of Will Purdue talking about that story where Jordan came up and played like the dollar hand games at the front of the plane where the big money was in the back. And Purdue's like, why are you up here?

you know, it's just a dollar. Like, go play with the heavy hitters. The quote was, I want your money in my pocket. I thought that was also one of the most telling quotes in the entire series. I want your money in my pocket. And this is the gambling combo groundwork. What that means, basically, is that it doesn't matter how much money Jordan's gambling. It's the act of taking something from you.

it's the act of winning. And that's why a really rich guy who doesn't need any money gets in trouble gambling. It's fucking fairly simple to me. For you to gamble a lot of money and lose a lot of money, you have to have a lot of money. So these people presumably are not trying to win money. They're trying to win at something.

And that's what he was doing. You know, you got some cool footage of beers and cigarettes at the half. That conversation, these guys are drinking middle of the lights at the half. Pippin didn't want them filming. Ron Harper did not care. And Ron Harper stock went way up in this entire series. He just seemed to be a guy that didn't give a fuck in the best way.

And I really like him the more I watch this. It's very, the series is done well for Ron Harper. Also, Jordan's not lying about the cigarettes, etc. He said that back in the day when he got in league, guys were smoking half time, drinking beer, whatever. Like that was a real thing in the NFL When I listen to my dad Talk about those locker rooms

He was in the 80s guys were definitely ripping Newports At the half Like it was nothing And then going out there And playing on AstroTurf They're just a different breed of dudes But same thing in the NBA I guess they were smoking cigarettes at the half

Etc et cetera And that whole conversation is Very interesting I want to know who was chain smoking the most in the 80s. I want to know who was smoking the most cigarettes. We could probably do an entire segment on that, and maybe we will,

projecting who smoked, who ripped the most heaters in the 80s in the locker room. Also, Will Purdue dresses like Peyton Manning. Absolutely, him and Peyton have the same stylist. You know, there were the quotes from the team saying, you know, he wouldn't pass them anymore. You know, there was the anecdote about him punching Will Purdue in the face. They were starting to make this turn into the Sam Smith book,

which obviously was a distraction for Jordan and, you know, explicitly poked holes in the in the perfect image of Michael from the outside looking at. But also this was an age where if this book came out, you didn't have access to athletes the way you did back in the day. The way you thought about athletes and the way they acted was very vanilla

and it wasn't in depth. A book like this nowadays would be less shocking. That's the worst. That's the worst thing. Jordan did. He punched Wilpredu in the face and was kind of hard on his teammates.

Like what knew did you learn from this little sequence in the series? And then Sam Smith with the old. ultimate spin zone saying his book would make them stick together he thought it made them stick together i mean jesus sam they skip ahead to the nix uh eastern conference final oh two they're down they jump right into it they get into the gambling thing in the Atlantic city okay so the the gambling

speculations around jordan have been huge they always have been uh the big deal here was it planted to see that Michael had a problem. You know, the fact that the day before game, he was with his dad in Atlantic City gambling until the wee hours of the morning. By the way, Francesca looked kind of chubby. He was eating well in the 90s. I barely recognized him.

The voice, Francesca's, I'm going to compliment. He's glowing up, man. Francesca is glowing up into the 2010s and 2020s. gambling was an escape for Mike. It was also a big deal because again, it was the first curveball in his rep that had been thrown. And he justified the night before the game going to gamble

because he said it was getting his mind off things. And there's plausible deniability there that, you know, like, yeah, you could want to get out of the city. You could, that could be an escape for you. You know, I don't know how much studying Michael had to do before a game in a system that he'd been in for years against opponents he knew well in the middle of a series. I don't know how much it bothered Michael to go sit at a at a craps table for hours. Like did that hurt his back?

Did he get stiff? Me as a pro athlete, like when I on a spectrum of talent in the NFL, like I certainly wasn't at the top. And especially as I got older in the league, like, you know, I had to do things like sit in my room. I'd skip dinners because I needed my sleep. I didn't want my back to get tight sitting at a table like at Morton's, like when the other guys went out to eat or whatever. And like there were games where I got out and enjoyed the city a little bit, but I never went out like till the wee hours or anything.

There are guys like that. I mean, that's more normal than you think Jordan going to gamble until one in the morning the night before a night game in Atlantic City is relatively low on the spectrum of stories I've heard about, about guys in the league or seen in the NFL at least, playing a far more physical sport that demands more rest and relaxation the night before game. I have heard worse. And, you know, I think what they were pointing to here with Jordan was part of a pattern. But it was also a story that broke and sent Jordan down a bit of a downward spiral with the media, where he did take a couple weeks off from talking about.

It was like a two-week gag order self-imposed. You know, you had them talking about Jordan skipping the White House earlier to gamble. You had the Slim Buller stuff. 57K he owed him. 57K for Michael Jordan is not a big deal. Again, it's an eye-popping number and definitely not his only debt. But 57K, oh well, for Michael Jordan. I've heard of suitcases of money in NFL locker rooms.

I've heard of tens of things. thousand dollars lost playing boo-ray on team planes like Jordan was not the only one who liked the gamble and you know if you if you believe the will chamberlain story where he scored a hundred um i learned this week that some people actually think of that as a conspiracy because there's not a lot of footage uh he was partying at six a m and drove 170 miles the the morning of that game to go to Hershey, Pennsylvania to get some rest and then play the game. I'm imagine Wilts Chamberlain. I don't know what kind of fucking car, Willett Chamberlain was driving, what kind of legroom

he needed to push that, that whip 170 miles. The night before he scored 100, that's crazy. No roadmaps, probably half drunk, dodging like wagons and prohibition people and shit from Boardwalk Empire. Namath in 68 was spotted at 8 a.m. Coming in before an AFC title game, shit happens. And Jordan wasn't the only one. Namath wasn't the only one.

Wiltshire wasn't the only one. This has happened throughout sports history. And we haven't heard of 99.9% of this stuff. And good players are out before games. Bad players are out before games. it's just part of it. Me personally, I wasn't one that liked to go out before games,

do anything before games. I would sit in the room in my happy place and just lay on the bed as long as I could. But I wasn't as talented as Michael Chorden. So, yeah, I mean, that was the turning point against the media. The walls were closing in, and the rest of the episode, you know, is kind of the buildup

to that 93 finals against the Sons through that gag order out of the gag order where you know Jordan's got his wind horse he's got Ahmad Rashad he's doing the interview

in sunglasses this is just peak I've fucking had it Jordan this is where Jordan in my opinion became the Michael Jordan we know today and not that young Michael Jordan, that unassuming, kind of more like deferential Michael Jordan competitive the whole way through, but seeming like unsure of who he was or his brand or his ability to just say, you know, fuck these people.

I think he hit a boiling point here. And this was the. the sequence that that harden his heart a little bit. And, you know, they end up finishing off the Nix. As a Nix fan, I wish they had never done this, this media freak out. Because had they not, I don't know that the Nix

lose that series. I don't know what happens in the finals against the Sons, but as a Nix fan, I wonder if Jordan never gets caught going gambling, he never has that motivation that he spun into just destroying the Nix, the next four games. You know, they said it. If Jordan eats a pepperoni, the media in Chicago burps, he couldn't get out of his own shadow.

And he took it out on the Knicks. You know, the funniest part of that whole sequence was Horace Grant. And nobody's celebrating with him after a big bucket they showed in, you know, of the highlight reel of that series against the Knicks, Horace got a high-five from Pax and he's celebrating for like eight seconds. Nobody comes up and taps him up. And also, by the way, Jordan sang Horace was the mole. And then they showed Jordan and then they show Horace like right off the bat.

And Horace just looks uncomfortable talking about it. I totally believe that Horace was the mole or one of the moles in that Sam Smith book. one of the things that they talked about a lot was for us feeling like he was in jordan's shadow i didn't even or like jordan was was outshining him i didn't even know that was a conversation i mean horace grant a lot of respect for him as a player but you also have to know like you ain't mike like how did you ever think you were mike like that was a thing um but evidently it was a thing um the game five Charles Smith, the putbacks, couldn't get it done. Like, I remember that.

I do remember that as a Knicks fan. And again, if the gambling thing never happens, I don't know. Maybe the Knicks have a title. Maybe they didn't pick, piss Jordan off. Maybe the gambling thing is the reason for the three-peat. Maybe, you know, if it's not for the gambling thing, they lose that series. And Jordan's mindset is completely different. I don't know.

Butterfly effect. But they're trying to become immortal in 93. Jordan's breaking his silence to talk to his windhorse. Again, there's sunglasses, Jordan. He's mad. He's mad at Krauss liking Dan Marley. Okay. Again, this is the Kraus motivation that, you know,

we talked about earlier with Tony Kooch. He's using it with Dan Marley. Sun's had a lot of white guys. What's up with Angel's haircut? It's a really interesting series because you could tell he respected Charles. You could tell he took a lot of shots at people throughout this thing. He didn't really take a shot at Charles. He just said he was mad that he won the MVP, but he didn't really argue the MVP.

He just wanted to go out and get the finals. And he did. Hats off the Sons because they looked defeated walking off the court after game one. But somehow that team got back on the horse. and made it a series. Barclay even said that early on, after he really bawled out, I think it was in game two,

he realized for the first time that there were better basketball players than him. There was a guy that was better. And Draymond Green, of course, was trending last night because he insinuated that he was better than Charles Barkley, to which everybody threw their heads back and laughter,

watching Charles Barkley, who I think it's funny nowadays, you see Charles Barkley on the TNT set, and you're thinking about who he was as a player is just completely clouded by this personality now. In fact, he's this big dude doesn't seem like he's that athletic. I mean,

Barclay was a fucking problem. And he had really good moments in that series, but not enough to get it done. The interesting point to me was, you know, game five, they blow their opportunity. to close out at home. And if you're watching that in real time,

going back to Phoenix is a terrifying prospect for them. And Jordan has a meeting on the plan and says, we're going to wear one suit. Now, I've heard about, you know, nowadays people saying, we're wearing black suits, funeral, close it out. You've got guys dressing up in the NFL playoffs to walk in and play a playoff game.

Like, that shit pales in comparison to Jordan saying, I'm packing one suit. And I believe him. And they went out there, they closed it out, Paxson with the big shot, again, only guy that scored other than Jordan that quarter. So even in a game where, you know, some people might look at that and say, oh, well, Paxon hit the shot. Paxon was wide open. And Paxon was the only guy who didn't score, not named Michael, the only guy who scored in the fourth quarter and not named Michael Jordan. So what a moment for the Bulls and for Jordan, three Pete, and I'm just watching him hold up three fingers. Who would have thought there were another three?

Like who would have thought in a time period that felt like maybe it was towards the end of the road for that group, for Jordan, you know, possibly with the microscope, the scrutiny. Um, that exhaustion of, of the 92, 93 season, he had three more in them. And we'll see the rest of them soon. Um, and, you know, the episode closes with him pulling out of his lame ass gate that had 23 on it. I forgot about that gate. I mean, imagine. I would never. Could you imagine?

I don't even like hanging up my football things at my house. now I don't know how intoxicating it must be to be Michael Jordan in the 90s in Chicago, but 23 on the gate and then, you know, the vanity license plate. I mean, that was a rare miss by Mike there. Incognito is the way to go. But yeah, we'll see what happens next series. The Nets. I think these are the Keith Van Horn lead nets.

We'll see what happens. Should be a lot of fun. I'm going to be mad as fuck when this thing ends. This has been great. It's been great hanging out in the digital living room with everybody on Twitter. Like everybody watching something at the same time, it almost feels normal for a couple hours. Let me hit some mailbag real quick and we'll get out of here.

But first, I did promise that I would compliment the winner of Best Question in today's mailbag. Okay, Jennifer Green asked Dream Sam. and who you'd share with, I wouldn't have a sandwich with anybody. I fucking, the thought of sharing a sandwich to me is disgusting. It makes me want to gag. If you're not talking about like splitting the sandwich in half and the other person having like, the thought of biting a piece of food that somebody else has like bit and there's bite marks on it is the most disgusting thing in the world to me.

I wouldn't share a sandwich with my own son, especially when he's just been crushing food. probably eating his boogers and like you know all that stuff i know it's my son i wouldn't share i wouldn't share a sandwich with my wife i just don't share i don't share sandwiches with people and this brings me to mayonnaise i can't stand mayonnaise that's what i picture when i think about sandwiches i'm just going to come out and say it i don't get the sandwich thing there's certain sandwiches i like but i think sandwiches are overrated and i hate you mayonnaise. I would probably rather eat like a pound of broccoli than eat a sandwich with mayonnaise on it. It's disgusting. The thought of it. I know I didn't answer the question there, Jennifer,

but that's where I am on sandwiches. Haley Bundy asks if the entire season has played without crowds is to take anything away from a Super Bowl win. I don't think it takes anything away from a Super Bowl win. We'll always look back at it and say, you know, this was the COVID year. I mean, the only way it's going to alter things from a team perspective is one, proud noise, atmosphere, certain teams that feed off more atmosphere at home that might have picked up better seedings, playoff spots, that sort of thing you're going to play without those factors that they're used to. I'm looking at you, 12th man, Seattle, New Orleans. I mean, how much are those fan bases and those atmospheres worth in wind totals? I do think it's going to be interesting.

I mean, we'll see what happens. The only way I think that we look back on this season and say there's an asterisk if a bunch of guys get sick and there's a second surge. And, you know, San Francisco, for instance, is on a playoff run and they're missing Jimmy G. for a couple weeks because of COVID, God forbid, like, or a team loses home field advantage because of a key player's absence or that sort of thing. But there's an outbreak on a team. Like, then we're talking maybe about asterisk here or there because injuries are a part of football. you don't generally think of an illness that has nothing to do with football as part of football. So that could be reflective in the way we look at things if they play this season on the way out.

I do think it'll be interesting like certain teams, the Rams, they weren't going to draw a lot in the big opener this year at their new stadium. So this could be a blessing in disguise for them. They could play better this year. They could pull more fans in next year because the hype from last year is not sustainable, but filling that thing up. I'm a little bit concerned for them there in L.A. Pat's fans, they get an easy out. You know, like, this is going to be the year that if you're a real Pat's fan, you show up and you watch them gutted out with Stidham.

But maybe you don't have to. Maybe you can always say, hey, I would have been there, but I couldn't, COVID wouldn't let me. I would have loved to have seen that 9 to 6 win over the Jets. You know, that Edelman trick play for 22, the Stidham on the wheel was electric. it set up that 30-yarder to, you know, from Ted Nugent, you know, the kicker for the win. I would have been right there. And I promise I would have been there. But COVID, I had to watch from home.

This is a big out for Pat's fans. Not saying they wouldn't be there, but there are some who certainly are not paying for tickets this year to watch Jared Stedham under center. Danny MCVT, most overhyped and most underappreciated. sporting events. Okay, hockey is the best sport live, period. I also think NBA games are underrated if you're sitting close to the floor. I know not everybody can do courtside, but that's probably my favorite. You know, hockey you can watch anywhere in the stadium and you're good.

On the boards is great. I think that hockey, you know, top to bottom is the best live. It's also great because it's a big guy. You don't sweat. I mean, it's cold in there. You can wear layers. It's great big man viewing. Now, Monster Truck Rally, that's another underrated one.

You're right there with the trucks. I saw a Monster Truck Rally in Charlestville. That was great. NASCAR, cool up close, not so cool, up in the stands. I said this, like, I sat up in the stands for a second, and I'm watching all these, like, families, like two kids, mom, dad. They all have the same little number with the same racer that they support. They get their headsets, and they're just,

listening to an announcer, you know, narrate 50 cars driving in a circle for three hours. I don't get it. But up close, if you can be down in the pit, it's pretty exciting. I got to go down in the pit and walk around during a race once, and the cars are unbelievable. Also, the pit crews are largely made up of NFL players or former college, sorry, former college football players. There's a lot of former football players in these pit crews. And I actually ran into a few guys I played in college. So that was crazy.

Tour de France, tour de France. I don't get it. Okay. It's amazing. It's an amazing feat. These guys are superhuman. They're cyborgs. If you're not doing drugs and you win one of these cycling races, hats off.

But I just don't get it. Okay. It's not watchable. I'm certainly interested in the fact that like these cyborgs, as I called them can do what they do, but I don't need to see it done. So like, for instance, I'm amazed and interested in everything Stephen Hawking did.

Okay? When he used to get buckets in the world of physics, I used to be interested in the conclusion of his studies or like his findings, but I don't need to see the entire fucking process. Just show me the bucket. I don't need to see everything that went into getting the bucket. It's the same thing with cycling.

Just put it in a movie, okay? Just make a movie like they did with Stephen Hawking. Make a movie. I don't need to see the whole race. It's not interesting to me. Anything racing on TV. I mean horse racing, I get it. You're like a minute in.

I'm coming around on the horse racing thing. It's got to be exciting. There's a lot of money on the line. and it's over just like that. But if I have to watch people race for three hours, whether it's cycling or NASCAR, I'm just not into it. Andy, MC, and VA. Name someone who you played with that would have been better

or one of the best if not for injuries, also someone that had the best training camp that never made it on a roster. Okay, I'm just going to answer the first half of this. This is going to seem obvious, but maybe not to some people. Sam Bradford, if he had never gotten hurt, And if he had better knees, this dude was a fucking jugs machine. You talked to receivers and they were like, the ball just comes off his hand different, accurate, where it needs to be, zip on the ball.

I thought he had leadership qualities. You know, it's impossible to be looked at as a leader. Obviously, Sam was one of my good friends. So I'm biased, but I wouldn't lie to you. You know me well enough to know. I wouldn't lie to you. I just wouldn't say anything. Sam could have been something else.

And when I texted like five, six, seven teammates that I play with in St. Louis, because that's where I played most of the years pretty much to a man. Everybody said Sam Bradford. Sam Bradford would have been a damn good, damn good quarterback. And he showed flashes, but, you know, it was the Carolina out of bounds, ACL, and then the Cleveland one was the real killer. We were going to be very good that year in preseason towards ACL pretty much two years in a row. I think it was.

And that was going to be tough. By the time he was in Minnesota, he had that game where he out dueled Aaron Rogers. They beat them. You know, Sam put up great numbers. But the next day, his knee blew up. I remember, like, texting him and call him the next day, and he's like, I can't even walk through. Like, and I didn't really do anything to it. It just, like, blew up.

And I know people like to, like, make fun of players that have injuries. you really can't control that. That's not something that Sam or guys that got hurt could ever control. Sam Bradford could throw the fuck out of the ball. And most of the teammates that I texted, agreed and said that Sam was the right answer to this question. Wyatt, what sports venue did you have the most unique experience at

as a player or a fan? I'll just say as a fan or as a player. I'll address that one. So I played the Edward Jones Dome, Jolette Stadium, the link okay um edward jones dome was one of a kind it wasn't state of the art it was dated man listen i showed up in st louis in 2008 that stadium was like less than 18 years old it felt 50 years old that thing date age so fast um you know the lights were yellow the turf was hard you felt like he had a headache the minute you walked in there because the lighting um you know

when you parked. Okay, Jerry's World, the new Cowboys Stadium, you drive in through an underground tunnel on the bus. It's like a mile long. You get out. There's like, you know, glass walls and, you know, beautiful architecture and that sort of thing. And by the way, I don't like that stadium,

but it's state of the art. Edward Jones, though, you parked. And by the way, downtown St. Louis is not why St. Louis is nice. I think why St. Louis kind of gets shit on, is because downtown's not that nice. Everything else is really nice about St. Louis. There's a lot of nice areas. Downtown is just a little bit depressed,

but the Edward Jones Dome is right down there, downtown. And this is not near Cardinal Stadium, like to the point where it looks good in, you know, conjunction with Cardinal Stadium. Enterprise Stadium's kind of off on its own, which is a nice place. The Enterprise Arena, where they play hockey is nice. Edward Jones Dome is kind of separated on its own, and it's just not a great looking place. We would park two alleys away at like the basement of a Drury Inn, and you'd come out of the basement.

You'd walk through two alleys. You'd walk through the concourse for like 150 feet to walk into the stadium. So you'd walk like past a rope, and there'd be fans there eating hot dogs, you know, And that was a cool thing that you get to see the fans every day on the way in and on the way out. But the only thing that sucked was on the way out usually just had just gotten done losing. I'll always remember, you know, I used to try to sign autographs and be the last one there. Like I try to sign all the autographs. I go the whole row because, you know, in St. Louis, when you lose for eight, 10 years and, you know, you bust your ass, you do everything you can,

The fans are also buying tickets and busting their ass to get there. So you want to thank them for that. So I used to try to sign as many autographs as I could. And there were a lot of regulars. I'd wait to see. There were couples that would drive in from out of town. There was an older couple that drove in from like Nebraska every week. I got to be kind of friends with them.

They would wait for me for like an hour after the games. And I'd come out and see them at Valet and talk to them for a bit. There were fans that I'd sign autographs that I remember very well every week. There were like regulars. And then there were people like, this homeless dude walked up this one time. And I was slumping. This was off my 2012 season, I think it was, where I had 11.5. So I just signed my big contract.

And 2013 was a season for me where I was slumping like halfway through the season. I had like two, three sacks. And I ended up with eight and a half on the year. But I remember walking out, signing an article. And this homeless guy comes up and he's like, hey man, you got any money? And I'm like, no, man, sorry I don't carry cash. It wasn't a lot. And he goes, oh, man, that's all good.

I appreciate you stopping and talking to me. And I'm like, yeah, man, thanks. He's like, you play for the Rams, right? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. What position? I'm like, I play defensive end. It's so cool. He goes, how many sacks you got?

And I was like, and this was like damn near the end of October. And I'm like, two and a half. And he goes, two and a half. Are you fucking kidding me, man? Are you fucking kidding me? Jesus. And he shakes his head and just walks off. So, you know, that was the Edward Jones dome.

That was the authenticity of the fan experience at the Edward Jonesdom. That was the access. I mean, you parked in an alley and walked through like the street. Imagine if we were actually good and there were a bunch of fans, you know, crowding those alleys. That would be tough. You know, you had. at the Edward Jones dome, you had that kind of cheesy entertainment and timeouts, you know.

Other stadiums are doing crazy stuff in timeout, like in commercial breaks. Like at the Edward Jones dome, they were doing things like, you know, how many cookies can you put on your forehead and eat without your hands in 60 seconds? You know, you had ping pong balls in a tissue box and they, like, taped it to, you know, your lower back and you had to shake them out. They had like minor league seventh inning stretch type stuff to entertain fans. You know, where did the football go? That was for some stadiums at this point in 2020, that's an appetizer.

Where did the football go in the three cups? That was like a main course in St. Louis. And then the funniest part was, I'll just remember things like the field catching on fire, the pyrotechnics before the Steelers game. I think it was 2015, a game where we lost like 12 to 9. We're running out of the tunnel, and all of a sudden we just smell like rubber, like burning rubber. Not like burning rubber out on a highway,

like burning rubber that could give you cancer if you stood out there too long. And somebody realized that the field was on fire. The pyrotechnics had set the artificial turf on fire. Our game got delayed like an hour because of that. You know, we finally won a game. I think it was in 2011 to make us like one in eight or something. And I'll always remember walking off the field.

And St. Louis at this time, and I don't know if it was 2011, I'm probably bucking this up. But the song, all we do is win. All we do is win, win, win, win, no matter what, they play that after a win. well nobody nobody thought to adjust the post game playlist and after that

first win of the season in October or wherever it was I'll just remember walking off the field hearing that song and that was the song that serenaded us every time we won any of our few

few Ws that we got in that dome but I will say as quirky and as run down as that building was, we had great fans, the ones that showed up were awesome, they were loyal, and I'll always miss that.

And then Gillette, you go to Gillette, tight tight security. You couldn't sneak anything into that stadium. Like you went through three checkpoints. It was also unique and that you got dressed in the same locker room as practice. You,

you know, like your practice locker room was your, was your stadium locker room and you know the complex was right in there you would walk through the weight room where you lifted weights every day to go out on the field so like you know usually you walk through the weight room to go out to your practice field on your practice facility but in new england it's all in one you could walk through the weight room where you where you just did you know biceps and triceps on thursday at 6 p.m and you walk out and you're playing pittsburgh Steelers in the AFC championship game.

So it was way different. And then the link, it was just one thing I remember at the link was not only the electricity in the building and just the atmosphere, but everybody in the building you felt like you were really part of the family. Like I walked through the hallway and I would just

you get a head nod from a guy in a security jacket from a cop, like from, you know, a janitor. Everybody just felt like they were on the same team. Like, the city was all on the same page. It was. It was the most on the same page city I've ever played in. That was reflective in the, in the,

in the stadium being right downtown, all the stadiums being right downtown. And I used to feel like when you walked in the link, you just felt good about it. You felt like everybody was behind you. And, and you were on, you were on, you're on a team that everybody was excited about. And it was really authentic excitement.

Yeah, Jeremy Fox. We get one or two more here. Jeremy Fox, this pandemic has obliterated foundational distance rules, such as manned space urinal etiquette, but or nut. What? Exiting to an aisle. And, of course, the handshake fist bump. What new etiquette would you impose to be cool yet still be safe?

In parentheses, he writes, elbow, touch. is objectively uncool. I agree. Jeremy, good question. I think eventually we do get back to shaking hands. I think it's absurd. If we don't, once there's a vaccine, I'm going to shake hands. Nice firm handshake is good. Now, I'm not mad if we do get rid of handshakes, if we go to praying hands, head nod, the bow. I do see that in Japan. I have been on that already, preemptively. Sometimes I'll do the bow thing. I'll find myself awkwardly doing the praying hands bow thing.

Don't ask me where I got it or why I do it. I think honestly, you know, it's a way to show appreciation without shaking hands. And I have done it before, so I'll be ready if we go that way. With handshakes, I am a connoisseur. I have to shake so many hands. When I played in the league, go to an event, you shake a thousand hands, sweaty ones, firm, firm ones, the pull in, the shake too long, the two handshake where you're finishing the conversation.

You know, it is so good to see you. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. What the last time I saw you? I'm like, oh, we're still shaking hands and having a conversation. Could you maybe let go? The only big no-no for me, my bugaboo with shaking hands is, listen, I am a germaphobe. I'm going to hand sanitize vigorously after I walk out of a room like that. But don't try to prove a point doing the firm handshake thing if you don't have a big hand.

If you have a small hand, you're going to grip the hand in an awkward place. Your fingers in your thumb are going to just crush the side of my hand. A big handshake, a big, bold, firm handshake should be reserved for people with big handshands that can actually get their fingers around the other person's hand. When a little person shakes my hand, I don't mean a little person like you think I mean it. I mean somebody with a smaller hand than mine and tries to prove a point.

You're not proving anything. You're just proving that you're probably annoying. Just give me a nice, medium, firm handshake. Don't crush my hand with your small, awkward hand. If you have a big hand, you can shake hands however you want. I don't try to crush your hand. my goal when I go to give a handshake is eye contact, a lean in. And if anything, if I have any quirk, it's that my middle finger will probably be on your wrist.

I don't know what it says, what it does, but that's my firm handshake, that my middle finger and I have a big hand, is going to be kind of halfway up your wrist. Rusty Shackleford. Okay, Rusty Shackleford asked stealing this from the no smoke pod, but who was the first dude in the NFL to really kick your ass either at camp. in a game. I've never really gotten my ass kick from a physical standpoint that I remember just getting like emasculated. But when you're a rusher and you can't get home, it can be very emasculating. It can feel almost like an ass kick. You can feel worse. There's two guys I remember who just gave me, I don't want to say problems, but they gave me headaches. Let's just say that.

You know, in 2012, we were getting ready to play the Packers. I'd already played Brian Belaga. I'd rushed him just fine. I'd beaten them on some inside. moves up there. We also played them in a game where it was hard to get into rhythm, so not getting a sack against him wasn't a big deal. When I played against him in 2012, I could not win rushes. It was at home. You know, this was 2012 was coming off a 13 sack season. I was playing with a new coach. And in 2011, I just rushed. I didn't really have a plan. Like I studied my ass off. I knew my opponents well, but I'm not the type that likes to come into a game with a detailed plan. I'm not a robotic rusher.

I'm a feel rusher. And so I was working with a new coach in 2012, Mike Waffle, who's a lot more formulaic. And there were some growing pains as far as going into a game with a very rigid plan, that sort of thing. And I get into the game and I got a bad plan. And it's just not working. The things I thought were supposed to work against Brian were not working. He felt like a totally different guy from the guy I played a year or two earlier. actually a year earlier.

And I could not get home. His anchor was strong. I couldn't bull jerk him, which was get into his body, then pulling by. You know, the inside moves weren't working. And Aaron was just torching us. He was getting the ball out. And when he wasn't, it was usually that time that I picked my worst rush. So Brian, he had, you know, kind of clamps for hands.

Really that day played his ass off. and I could not. I mean, maybe I finished a game with one pressure. That was so rare for me because, you know, although I wasn't every year a double-digit sack guy, you know, over that span, I was picking up a lot of sacks and I definitely had a ton of pressures. I was always a disruptive guy.

That was a game where I barely sniffed Aaron Rogers. And, you know, it bothered me. I felt like I had really let the team down. And that pissed me off. There was also a game. No, I played Brian again, and that game felt like more of an aberration. We didn't play a lot again, but it felt like I had a bad plan, and that was it. Now, Damar Dodson, he's a big, tall guy in Tampa Bay, unorthodox.

Looks more like a basketball player, but a big guy. That's a really good anchor for a tall, skinny guy. Also an underhand puncher. It's really weird playing against him. and the first time I played him, I wore his ass out, had like two sacks. Then he made some adjustments, not just, like, I had two sacks in the first half against Tampa. Then we played second half, he got a lot better. He's like, you figured out something I was doing pretty quickly.

And then we played again. And for, you know, I ended up with a sack late in the game at home. That was the game that Robert Clinton ended up with 19 sacks on the season. I ended up with a sack at home. But for damn near the entire of the game, I couldn't. figure them out. So those are two guys that, you know, and I respect them both a lot, unorthodox, guys that gave me trouble and guys that got me frustrated at different times of my career. It's funny when I thought back, there weren't a lot of guys that stood out as, you know,

people that kicked my ass or anything, but those two dudes, for whatever reason, just really frustrated me. You know, you remember getting your ass kicked in the NFL. You remember games where your team got their ass kicked. And I was on a team in St. Louis that that had, happened to us a lot from you know brett far putting up 40 something points on us in new york to you know chris johnson running for what felt like 300 yards cj 2k uh Vince young prime Vince young running by us at home hearing Folsom prison blues every five fucking minutes in nissan stadium in in Nashville uh to Adrian Peterson running all over us like we got our as a team individually.

There were a few games where it was tougher than other games, but not the end of the world. Jalen Wilkes, who was my OG in the league and who were you an OG too? First of, I would hope I was an OG to any younger player later in my career. I always tried to take players under my wing if they felt like they needed help. I always tried to be there for younger players, but also I wasn't going to chase younger players to try to help them. So, you know, for me, maybe part of that is because, you know, my OG, if you want to call it that, was James Hall.

James Hall was a great football player when I got in the league. He had been in a league about a decade. He had played in Detroit. He had about 60 sacks. And somebody that had he been on good teams would have been talked about in the same breath as a lot of these really good rushers of the 2000s that have bigger names. But he played in Detroit in every one games. That probably soured his opinion of football. He was playing in St. Louis.

He was playing for a dysfunctional organization. I happen to get drafted there. This is one of those things that I'm sure when I got drafted, it was nothing against me, but I'm the high draft pick. They want to give his job to me. And in fact, I did start that year, but I didn't deserve to start that year. James was a hell of a football player.

He was a technician. And as I mentioned, he had had a great career to that point on bad teams. But James was the grumpiest guy you could ever play football with. his respect was really hard to earn. We probably didn't talk for a whole year. Like, and we talked, like, if he had to talk, he had to give me a call or throw me a towel in the locker room. Or, hey, like, you know, you need to be here by this time. But, you know, I would ask James questions.

And I would be frightened to get the answer because he was just so fucking grumpy. But I'll tell you what, once I had James' respect, we became best of friends. And, you know, we climbed Kilimanjaro together. he was at my wedding. Me and James talk all the time, even to this day. And it just goes to show you when you show up in the locker room the first day, you know, relationships don't always look the way they're going to look. And James was probably the guy my rookie year that I was most unsure of. And I had some grumpy old vets in that room from Leroy Glover to Leonard Little to Fred Robbins, not my first year, but after a year or two.

So I had some real veteran guys. And we talked about Kobe earlier and the way the leagues hit younger. I walked into a very old locker room, a lot of OGs. Now, James was the one that I least would have expected would have taken me under his wings so much. Not even doing it on like actively, just by example and very naturally. Leonard Little helped me a lot. Obviously, Fred Robbins, as I mentioned, and Leroy Glover, who I'm still friends with as well. But James, for me, was my guy.

So, best question. I think we spent the most time on Danny MCVT's question. So Danny MCVT, congratulations. You asked a tremendous, tremendous question. And I'm going to give you a compliment right now. I'm going on your Twitter. You have zero followers. That's fucked up.

Let's get Danny MCVT. Let's get Danny MCVT some. followers. I also want to take a minute to appreciate his rainbow AVI. It is a picture of trees, beautiful picture of trees and a beautiful rainbow. Congratulations to Danny MCVT, who looks like he's a Patriots fan. He also retweeted me, wow, I'm just scrolling through his timeline. He retweeted me, 1229-19. So a dedicated

tweeter, a dedicated fan, a dedicated listener. And he's got a cool profile picture. Again, we've got oh, he's retweeted chalk media. My guy, follow Danny MCVT. Great question about most overhyped

and underappreciated sporting events. That'll do it for today. A lot to get through. But thanks for bearing with me. Sorry we didn't get it out this morning. again, I was just an exhausted dad this weekend. So you live and you learn. I won't make that mistake again.

Guys, thanks for listening. See you all later in the week this Wednesday. And we might have a very special guest this week. I'm waiting to hear back, but maybe one of our more high-profile guests we've had yet. I can't say who. A little tease for you there. See you all Wednesday. Take care.