Green Light with Chris Long - NHL Could Return. A Weekend With Sports. ‘Lance’ 30 for 30 Review.

Episode Date: May 27, 2020

0:48 - Open and Memorial Day Meaning. 4:43 - George Floyd. 9:34 - Sports from this Weekend. 13:43 - NHL News. 27:41 - ‘Lance’ 30 for 30 Review. Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We've got NHL news. We're going to talk about the playoff, that proposal, that motion that seems to be full speed ahead. And we're also going to talk about the Lance Armstrong documentary, the follow-up after the last dance, which I thought was going to be impossible. It's proven to be pretty tough for my brain to adjust to something as tonally different as Lance. But I've done it and I've enjoyed it. Hump Day already, day one this week. Greenlight pod. I feel like I've been away for a while.

We've been banging out pod after pod. There was like a three weeks span at the beginning of this pandemic, like which feels like six years ago, that I was doing five a week. And as I look back, I have realized that I am an absolute psychopath. And I know my producers are listening on the other end, like, yeah, dude, that was fucked up.

I'm sorry about that. We're doing three pods a week now, but this week, two pods a week because we took the day off. For Memorial Day, listen to podcasts on Memorial Day. I hope everybody had a nice weekend, a peaceful weekend. I also hope that my listeners did not forget the meaning of Memorial Day. Memorial Day is not Veterans Day. Memorial Day is not the Fourth of July. You don't walk around thanking troops for their service. Memorial Day is about the men and women who died for this country in uniform. And however you feel

about war and conflict, that is a reality and they made a sacrifice. And I got to say, it never fails on Memorial Day to see people on social media disregarding either willingly or mistakenly the meaning of the holiday. And some people use some of these very serious occasions to thirst trap. Some people use them incorrectly. thanking the troops. Some of them are verified accounts. Some of them are very well-known people that butcher it every year.

My favorite are the Thirst Trap fusion posts that are like a girl in a American flag bikini, posing with six filters, happy Memorial Day or a dude who likes his muscles in some like flex pose, happy Memorial Day. they might throw in like a thank you for your service, which is just a cherry on top of a shit show of a Memorial Day post. Yeah, there were plenty. And I'm not going to like, I was screenshotting a number of verified accounts that butchered it like clockwork every year.

But I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to crash the party on some of these accounts. I just watch in disbelief. That's my Memorial Day rank. And I did hear a lot of people saying this year, like, oh, it's the worst Memorial Day ever, like, yeah, I understand, like, that holidays descend into more of a, hey, like, this is a time for family, is the time we're off work, there's a time we can get drunk, we can do things outside, the weather's beautiful. May, by the way, and I'll power rank the months here at some point, because I know we're

going to run out of fucking content. May is an elite month. This is one of my favorite times of the year. No doubt about it. I love Memorial Day because we, we're going to run. do get a chance to all get together and spend time with friends, family, that sort of thing, cold beer, hot weather, floating a river on a normal occasion. It certainly descended into that, but you also can't sit here and bitch about Memorial Day

because you've got to spend them in the house when the holiday's really not for you. So next Memorial Day, if you know somebody that's served and might have lost somebody that they know serving the country, maybe shoot them a text and tell them you hope they have a peaceful Memorial Day and that you're thinking about them. I know a number of vets. I've worked with a number of vets and that day is not easy for them. It really isn't. You know, it's not just the name. You know, there are men and women that they remember every Memorial Day. So maybe next year we could all get it right. I doubt it though. Heavy top. to heavy topic. Now, if you've listened from the beginning, I know that like some of you all

have this preconceived notion that I just jump at the opportunity to talk about anything that you deem political. I am not, in fact, somebody who likes the political world. I think most politicians are full of shit. That sort of thing. So you're going to be happy to realize that this is not a political podcast, but this is a right and wrong podcast. And too often, I think people use, don't get political. Keep your politics out of sports. Keep your politics out of my podcast. I don't want to talk politics at a dinner table or whatever.

That's just code for I don't want to talk about something uncomfortable. And police brutality is an uncomfortable topic, but it's something it needs to be talked about. And I will talk about it today, at least briefly, the George Floyd video, which many of you have seen in Minneapolis, is disgusting. It is a murder in broad daylight by one police officer. officer for sure, if not to, because I think that any officer that's standing there, you know, guarding a safe space for that act of murder to occur is complicit. There were two cops on the scene. George Floyd is a black man in his 40s.

He is accused of forgery. It is not a violent crime. He does not have a weapon on him. He is resisting arrest, but at this point, they have him cuffed. The video cuts on, of course, a few minutes in, but they have the situation seemingly under control. And this cop in Minneapolis breaks protocol and jams his knee into George Floyd's neck, cutting off his air supply for minutes, eventually killing him. Not only is he a murderer and do I think that he deserves to answer for his crimes,

but I think that the officer standing by guarding that space deserves the answer for his crimes as well. Listen, I don't talk about this stuff every day. I don't want to wear you all out with this stuff. I know that like there are some times that we should talk about sports or some other issues. There's plenty of serious issues in the world. And my podcast isn't this isn't a cable news network. This isn't this isn't C-SPAN. This is a podcast. Okay. And I talk about what I want to talk about. and today, this just, you know, in the heels of Ahmaud Arbery, you know, the George Floyd video, this is not something new. This is something that's been going on for a long, long time.

And only recently, do we have camera phones? Do we have body cams and that sort of thing? This was a murder. And it's important to say that. And it's also important to say that the department was full of shit and how they handled it. The way they misrepresented, the chronology of what happened. And like far too often, they tried to sweep it under the rug, but cameras. So I shared the tweet. I shared the video. The video is already viral. It's not like I'm the first one sharing it.

And certainly there's a rush to share it because I'm angry. And you would be too if you look at the video. And if you're not, I would probably just ask you to find a new podcast. I'm not saying that you have to agree with me on every issue, but watch this video. And if you're not upset at it and you don't share my sentiment. in this individual situation. I don't even think we have a starting point. All I know is that I was disgusted when I saw the video,

and I do care about that stuff. It's disgusting, it's troubling, and it's not just one situation. It's happened a bunch and camera phones. Tough to watch, but hopefully, eventually one of these years, people staying at it will change the status quo. and they're protesting in Minneapolis. I hope they protest. I hope they protest with a lot of passion

because that's their right, right? I just saw people protesting not being able to go back to work with automatic weapons in the statehouse. I think we should be fine in Minneapolis, right? So again, thank you for hanging with me. I know that this is like a sports podcast, pop culture podcast.

It's hard to go from like ranking best movie fights scenes talking about police brutality, but that's a reality. And like this podcast is always going to be kind of what what's on my mind. And again, I understand some people like a, you know, a brief respite from some of the serious depressing stuff that goes on in our country and around the world.

But sometimes I just, I can't. I got to talk about some things. So tough. And it's better to talk here than on Twitter. I mean, like if you go back through my feed, yesterday was a shit show, even arguing with people that I agree with. I mean, Twitter is the fucking worst. But there were sports this weekend.

It was great. We saw golf. We saw Joe Thomas in a leotard running around doing various athletic feats for like four minutes straight. Like he wasn't breathing hard, but I know it had to be exhausting. And he won one for the football guys. It reminded me like one of those old Nickelodeon shows, but adjusted for competing against like the world's most intense CrossFit dude, firefighter. I don't know if he was hot dogging at the end or he just couldn't get it in the hole. but he could not get the key in that hole

and Joe Thomas got the key in the hole and he won. You know, they say never relax. That was a big win for the football guys. That was fun. That was sort of like sports. And then you had the golf thing, obviously, which, you know, the match is what they're calling it. They're talking about like who's the next, you know,

group of athletes to get involved with the match. There's probably no shortage. But it was Peyton. It was Tom, it was Phil, and it was Tiger. And it was kick-ass. It was cool. And I'm not somebody who watches golf a ton, but I'm probably one of these non-traditionalists

who really are looking at this golf thing with microphones and some of the chatter and that sort of thing that probably thinks the game could use a little bit of that. I know there's probably some people who are cringing at the possibility that golf takes this sort of inside access look into future events. I thought it was great. I thought it was just what the doctor ordered. It was also chaotic.

It was pandemic appropriate. So I turn it on and I'm thinking to myself, oh, shit, it's raining. They're actually going to cancel this. All these golf fans are going to lose their minds because they've been waiting for this thing so intently. My second thought was that with the bad weather, if they do play, Tom's going to crush it. Well, of course, that wasn't the case. Tom usually sells it in bad weather, not so much. I know we talked about his track record in Florida.

It's almost counterintuitive. He struggled in the rain. He struggled in the downpour. And that was refreshing for a lot of golf fans. And I thought it was hilarious that everybody online took such joy in seeing that Tom Brady and them were similar or possibly something that Tom Brady does was at an attainable level from a skill set standpoint. I mean, everything else in life, Tom Brady crushes. golf maybe relatively speaking people didn't think he was as good as they thought but it was it was a solid event these are all icons in sports tiger Peyton Bill Brady Eli on Twitter and I'm realizing

that the pandemic like has gotten my sports parents drunk like that's what these guys are for a guy even my age and some of y'all listening are like you're old you're 35 These guys are the guys that were killing it when I became a professional athlete, and they're all drunk. We're all seeing a different side of them. I mean, again, you've got Eli on Twitter, Brady golfing with his feet hanging out the side of a golf cart, texting while driving. He rips his pants. You got him talking shit to Chuck. You've got Peyton Manning dropping a Nick Foles bomb on Tom, who he said it was a cheap shot.

You've got golf in the rain with Tiger riding in a cart. I've never seen anything like it. And it all happened in like a day. And if it's any sign of things to come in the sports world, if not perfect, it's going to be imperfectly interesting from here on out in 2020. And, you know, we might miss some things, but we might get some really interesting vantage points when looking at some really interestingly concocted contests,

like that Skins game we saw last Sunday. And by the way, I don't know jack shit about it. golf. I just learned what a Skins game was. It was enjoyable. It was cool. Tom hit the big shot, but I think, you know, overall, by most people's accounts, kind of struggle. First time I've ever seen Tom really struggle at something. So we got the NHL thing. So possibly some good news out of the NHL, depending on who you are and where you sit, the Stanley Cup playoffs could be salvageable. The NHL has announced that the regular season is indeed over. But the good news, maybe, is that there is that there is,

is going to be some sort of a playoff. Or that's what they're pushing for. A 24-team playoff, totally unprecedented. Sucks to be one of the bottom seven or eight teams, but we'll get to why maybe there's a bright side to that in a little bit. Out of those 24 teams, the top four teams in each side of the bracket, so to speak, have to play around Robin to determine seating. Now, this was voted on last Friday by the NHLPA reps.

and, you know, it came out 29 to 2 in favor of this playoff concept, which was surprising to me. And the two that voted against it, it's not a coincidence that they're the two top teams that have the most to lose by the implementation of this round robin system. The four best teams on either side of the bracket are back east is Boston, Tampa Bay, Washington, Philly, out west at St. Louis, Colorado. Vegas, Dallas. Speaking of the blues, a lot like being a Virginia Cavalier fan. I had a really good year last year in sports. The Who's won the national championship.

Well, college basketball, March Bandness got canceled. I guess we're raining champs. I thought we were going to have the same thing going with the blues. But I guess we'll have to play it out on the fucking ice, won't we? Go blues. Yeah. So out west, you've got four teams. You've got four teams out east.

They're going to plan around Robin. And I don't want to get into the intricacy of how that's going to be played because it's all subject to change, I'm sure. But the teams with the most to risk are obviously ones that are saying, you know, hey, we earned a top seat. And now we've got to go play more games to secure it in this playoff format that's unprecedented. Now, again, this might, it could be a good news, bad news situation. If I'm looking at as a player, as a player, you play these round robbing games. you might be more warmed up, lathered up to go do this thing to shake the rust off than the other teams in the tournament. But the point stands.

You know, it's interesting for those top teams who might feel like, hey, why are we risking more when we already earned our top spot? So, again, 29 to 2 was the vote 2014 playoff. Two hub cities. That's what we're talking about here. Domestic hub cities. You know, the cities floated, I believe, was Chicago, Columbus, Dallas. Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Edmonton, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Vancouver, mostly domestic cities, a few of them in here are head scratches.

I don't know why Edmonton's in the conversation. No disrespect to Edmonton. I'm sure they're very great people. They have some good oil up there. But I heard it's very cold. And not that it'd be cold late in the summer, but just you got Vegas here, Los Angeles. I'm pretty sure the players wouldn't mind being somewhere warm and luxurious with the nice amenities. I don't think there's a Ritz Carlton in Edmonton.

I know these hockey players, they're like rough and rugged, but most of them that I know, they still like the finer things. We'll see how this thing goes as it develops. There's a real mixed bag here when it comes to reviews, players, executives, fans. Everybody's got different motivations for wanting this to happen or not happen. I like chaos. I'd love to see more sports the better,

but I understand as players, there's a big risk. for league, they want to make some money. You know, number one, we're starved for this stuff as fans. And anytime we talk about this, the NFL, the NBA, whatever, there's an element to us saying, why are we opening these businesses when everything else is out of stands still? Well, I think this is a, we can agree, is different than just any other business. Number one, it provides us a little bit of sanity.

It boosts morale in the country's sports we've learned more than ever are a huge source of normalcy for us. And whether they're fans in the stands or not, whether it's 2014 playoff, whether it's an 82 game season or it's shortened, like we want to see sports. This is an exhibitionist exercise. Players, coaches, staff,

they're opting in, they're taking a risk. It's not like you open the door and a bunch of consumers come in, fans. We've covered these risks in football. Let's not pretend that, you know, let's not pretend that there aren't risks. I think as we're learning more about this pandemic, and I've talked about this a length in football,

but let's hit it again for a second. You got 53 guys on a roster. What happens when one person gets sick? How do you contact trace in a building full of people? Even if you cut the staff back down in half, I think you're looking at like 75 people walking around the building every day. We all have families. And you're going to pretend for a second that over a 16-week season

or whatever it's going to be in football. Or even the Stanley Cup playoff, this modified format, that families aren't out in the first. about one of the grocery store running into people. It's a huge trust thing in two sports with a bunch of people on rosters and close proximity contact. And I don't know if it makes a difference that it's cold as fucking ice rinks. You know, people are like, well, it's summertime.

Things could scale back a little bit with the pandemic because of the weather. I don't know if it's like a petri dish in an ice rink for these guys. A lot of pads, a lot of stuff to clean. There's a ton of things we don't think about. And what happens when there's an outbreak? We see flu run through locker rooms like shit through a goose. And we're talking about going to work for weeks on end with dudes that all could pop up positive at any point. And so there are risks involved.

But let's pretend that for a second, we've got this covered hypothetically. Let's talk about the logistics of it. The players get the short end here. Okay, the owners in the league want to salvage cash. the fans were tweaking for sports we get that but the players are the ones putting themselves in physical and financial peril there's you know when when i talk to to players not only did they say i'm not sure that this is going to happen um secondly there was immediately financial concerns i know that like it's hard for fans to be compassionate towards players when there's other people who don't

have the means to survive this thing uh who are losing jobs their businesses their you know their livelihoods are at stake and players are obviously trying to try to get everything they can to take this risk. I understand that. The owners certainly are not going to, you know, take, shit runs downhill. Let's just say that. The owners aren't going to take the brunt of this. Players who take in the NHL a 14% haircut about every year, as it was explained to me with the escrow situation, this year could rise to upwards of 35% or more. So that's an astronomical haircut there for dudes who play a contact sport in the middle of a pan. pandemic, the NFL depends a lot less on fans and stands than other leagues.

So contrasted to the NFL, you've got hockey who, you know, the NHL really relies on fans in the stands. That's a lot of their revenue. You're not going to have those things right now. They can't just rely on the TV deal. And by the way, the NFL compensation situation is going to be interesting to see as we near closer to this hypothetical season. And that's not saying it's not going to happen.

but a lot can happen between now and September. The NHL has a load of problems because they do depend on fans and the stands. We know that that's not going to happen in this format. And players are going to bear the brunt of that financial setback for the league. And the NBA as well. I mean, the NBA, these guys are making way more money. The TV deals are better. And we'll get to some other reasons why it might be better to be an NBA or NFL player

facing a pandemic altered season than an NHL guy. there's not only the financial compensation part of it, there's guys who are waiting to have an opportunity to be compensated. You're talking about guys in contract years. What if you get hurt? What if you don't play well? You know, this season is not only going to be a risk for players who are getting off the couch who have never spent this much time, not skating, not on the ice.

It's also a big risk for guys who are hoping for some financial compensation going into contract season. You know, if you get injured and guys talked about, you know, 2004, the strike year, I think it was 2004, the alteration of the schedule for these guys really hurt them. I mean, this is an intense sport when it comes to, you know, the physicality of it. We know about the contact, but think about it. Skating is not running. It's not running.

It's not natural for even an elite hockey player. You have to skate to stay in skating shape. And if you don't, as we learned in 2004, or as guys explained to me, when guys aren't properly trained, teams aren't together, there are injuries. So if you're waiting in a contract year, you don't play well, you get hurt, that all matters. Not to mention you're talking about doing this, taking a month break and just full speed ahead, raw dogging it, into an 82 game hockey season in 2021, which is ambitious to say the least. you've got the rash of injuries concern the physical side is huge you can't replicate skating i said that it's not like you can find a high school field or a gym i've trained all over the fucking world for nfl seasons i've trained on the shittiest fields uh with the tallest grass i've trained on

uneven fields i've trained on hills i've trained in big fork montana charlesville virginia st john on my honeymoon like i could get that done there's grass everywhere if you're a basketball player judging by the horse competition beginning of the pandemic, like everybody's got their own fucking gym. And if you don't, you can go to high school. I don't think any dude has access to an ice rink right now, no matter where they are. And then there's also a geographical part of it where guys live in Europe, live in Canada. What's going to happen for them coming back to the United States? Is there going to be a quarantine period? That's going to be complicated as well. And I know I'm like being like, though, what about this? What about that? I usually hate this when

when I have a perfectly good idea and people poke holes in it. I'm like, can you just, can we just fucking figure it out? Well, I'm being the guy right now. 12 people skating at the same time. It's hard enough to get one person in skating shape. 12 people at the same time when you talk to guys, they say you need at least three weeks of solid skating before you really are on the same page and you're in the shape you need to be in.

That is something that I don't know if they built into this whole thing. And again, this is the longest player. away from the ice their entire lives. So it's extremely risky. There's a geography aspect of it. There's financial aspect of it. There's a physical aspect of it. And then on top of the whole thing, you look at this thing from a standpoint of difficulty.

This is the biggest challenge that I believe any of the leagues face. And I'm going to take baseball out of this because I'm not as well versed on that. But the NHL, the NBA, the NFL. It's not like basketball, five guys on a team who are going to see the bulk of the minutes, a couple stars who play in a players league, getting people on the same page is a lot easier on a five-guy team than it is on a team of 20-plus people. Jims at their house. Again, not every guy has an ice ring at their house.

Good TV deals. That's a different place to be coming from. The haircuts might not be as bad. And then it doesn't have the long runway of football, the luxury. that the NFL has had this entire time. Not only have they had a long runway going into this season where they can judge the trajectory of the pandemic, the curve, what other leagues are doing.

You also in the NFL, unlike the NHL, who's going to take the short break and go right into an extremely physical season, the NFL has the ability in the wiggle room to move their season back into the late fall. You could be looking at an early spring Super Bowl. I don't know, but you have that runway going into 21. The other leagues don't really,

have that, especially not hockey. All they have right now is a month wiggle room. And it's, it's hard to do anyways from what it sounds like. Considering playing really two seasons rolled into one is, is borderline insane. And the NHL is certainly not, you know, enjoying the best seat in the house when it comes to leagues right now. But they're doing what they can. And they've been applauded for trying to push a solution forward. I don't know that all players are a concerned as the ones I talked to. But if I were a player, I'd be looking at it like, fuck, you want me to get in shape and just hit the ground running.

It's like for people that play Call of Duty, it's like spawning and rust or one of these small maps. It's like you just wake up one day and it's a Stanley Cup fucking playoffs. Come on. What are we doing? How are they going to replicate that speed, that intensity, the physicality, the adrenaline? win. It's going to be interesting if they do it. And that's no foregone conclusion. Again, NHL players stand to lose more than they win in dealing with the league. And that's a general consensus. And it's more true

now than ever. And it could result in a win for everybody but the players. Traditionalists probably hate the 24 teams. Quality of play could dip as we mentioned. I think the big question is the juice worth the squeeze. And only the players know. And I sure. hope selfishly as a fan that we're going to see some Stanley Cup playoffs and that the blues repeat. We'll hear more soon. So 30 for 30, Lance, obviously the story of Lance Armstrong, a couple hours special the other night. I didn't watch it the other night.

I watched it yesterday. And truly, you know, when the last dance ended, we were clamoring for more sports and long form documentary stuff. But we also at the same time, I think, how hard it would be to follow that. And this felt a lot more gray scale compared to like the rich color and enjoyability of the last dance.

The last dance was entertainment. This was interesting, subdued. I found myself reflecting on a lot here. A little bit different than the Jordan thing. I thought we went to the Jordan thing thinking it would be this big character study. And of course Jordan, as I've mentioned, under-promising, over-delivering,

you're going to hate me. we think we're going to go to this thing grappling with who is Michael Jordan. We knew who Michael Jordan was all along. This just enhanced it. And it was a bit of a controlled environment for him. We talked about it at length. John Weinbach came on last week. He answered criticisms when it came to things like Ken Burns was talking about.

It's not a documentary and that sort of thing. And I do see the side of it, but I also didn't look at it like a documentary. It was a Jordan really substantive, deep, layered Jordan highlight reel with some truth to it. They hit all the hot button issues. But at the end of the day, when Jordan has say-so, I mean, it's a controlled environment, a little bit at least. And I think even the guys that made that film would acknowledge it,

and they did a fantastic job. They did a remarkable job. It's a really hard thing to follow. Now, Maria Zenevich, who is taking an ambitious stab but one of the more polarizing people in sports here has done a nice job thus far. There's one more episode, but she has done a really nice job. And I think for me, the intrigue is why Lance Armstrong is so polarizing. Forget like the simple answer, which is that he's a cheater.

Okay. Well, I could challenge you for days on end to examine that high standard you've set for athletes because I'm pretty sure you've overlooked, you know, something of that nature at some point. in your sports fandom history, okay, he's an asshole. We've definitely overlooked assholes in the history of sports with regularity. Why is there such a visceral reaction to Lance Armstrong? Maybe it's because he's both. It's definitely a tug of war with Lance over the truth, as always.

I think anybody who has followed him knows that. And I certainly admittedly have not been a huge cycling fan. I've followed Lance Armstrong's career and the aftermath on a surface level, but you don't need to be a diehard dude in a in spandex riding down the country road outside my house every Saturday morning to know that he's kind of an asshole. He's kind of polarizing. And he was kind of considered to be one of the greats of all time in his sport. And the downfall was huge.

The fall from grace was huge. He's always tried to control his narrative. That's been well known. So the challenge of getting him to agree to do something like this, after, I believe, there was a documentary in 2013 and 2015, and neither were good looks for Lance. 2013, I think, had attinged too much of a personal hit job because the filmmaker in 13, I forget the name of this film,

but I read that when they started making the film, it was supposed to be about Lance in a positive light. and the filmmaker, you know, mid-flight, all this stuff breaks, and he felt lied to personally by Lansing, kind of turned it into that. Or in 2015, and I can't wait to watch this in its entirety, the doc is a lot more scathing, but, you know, rooted in objective truth and seeking the truth. But he's trying to control his narrative.

You can kind of feel that a little bit here, but Maria is not allowing that to happen. does a good job pulling in a plethora of personalities as kind of an insurance policy. There was no, there was, you know, there was far more dissent and rightfully so than the Jordan went. Listen, Jordan was an asshole, but I think the biggest difference between Jordan and Lance, obviously is the cheating. But on top of that, Jordan is considered to be kind of a competitive asshole in a competitively acceptable sense of the work. you know, he didn't cheat. He didn't lie.

He didn't bully anybody in the court of law. We know Lance is an asshole. We know that on top of that he cheated. And people felt cheated. I mean, fans felt cheated. And this documentary, to Maria's credit, has not been a reclamation project of any kind. Not saying the last dance was.

There was nothing to reclaim with Jordan. I mean, Jordan, his brand is perpetually at an all-time high. So if anything, that was a risk for him for Land. For Lance, you could go into this thing saying, okay, here we go. Here's a puff piece for Lance. But it really hasn't been that so far unless it's really well calculated to make me say just that. And the truth is far worse than we're seeing. And episode two won't cover any of that stuff.

But she does say, Maria says, quote, Lance Armstrong remains an iconic but divisive figure. I'm hoping that people will come to the film with an open mind. He gave me unprecedented access to himself and his family for two years. In the end, the film. and Lance speak for themselves and a number of other people as well. And I think that's an important part. Now, I mention all the things that Lance hasn't done. He hasn't, you know, the things that he has done.

What he hasn't killed anybody, he hasn't sexually assaulted anybody. To my knowledge, he hasn't beaten his wife. These are low bars, but in the world of sports, we've looked way past these transgressions with regularity. I don't have to name names either. We consume content and people get paid to big bucks that have done any number of those three in the sports world. So, you know, regularly scheduled programming for some guys and girls after really ugly situations, Lance has not been able to recover. And I think a lot of that is the crux of the conversation.

What's the verdict on him as a cheater? Is it acceptable to look past, you know, his transgressions throughout his career? The opening scene does a really nice job. And by the way, this is probably the most shared scene in documentary. And that's the whole fuck you montage that Lance is flipping off the camera and mouthing to the camera, imitating these people that he met and got his first fuck you five or so into his post-doping revelation lifestyle. There was a long period where he wondered when the first person would be that would come up to him and confirm about it.

It eventually happened. And the story was funny. It was kind of endearing. And, you know, it also told you a little bit about Lance and how he processes things. He seemed to expect it and understand it, but he also seemed mad. He seemed mad about it. Even though he totally understood why these people were saying, fuck off, fuck you. He seemed mad about it.

And then he had to win with the check. So I thought that was really, you know, it encapsulated his personality nicely. But right off the bat, you know, that was a strong scene. And then Maria gets right into it because she's interviewing him. She asked him about doping. So right off the bat, they're into the hard stuff, the crux of the whole the whole conversation, which is can you look past Lance being a cheater? And we'll get to the asshole part in a little bit.

But the cheater part is first and foremost what we care about because we, as I mentioned, We look past people being assholes, people being murders, people sexually assaulting people, people beating up their wives and abhorrent shit like that. We look past it all the time in the sports world. So what we really care about with Lance is the cheating and the fallout that might never have happened had it not been for the cheating. You know, we forgive athletes, entertainers, musicians at every turn for far worse than what Lance has done. and I'm not excusing it.

When somebody we idolized makes a mockery of our adulation, we react. Okay, anger is love disappointed. I think it's one of the truest, you know, axioms or whatever the fuck you call it in society. And, you know, people reacted viscerally to Lance Armstrong because we loved it. And the source of that resentment is the unforgivable sin of cheating, lying to the consumers about you know, the veracity of what they're seeing, who's really the best cyclist? Well, I feel cheated on that because Lance has been doping. I feel like we wasted time rooting for this guy. And I feel like we don't really know where the cream of the crop was. Maybe it wasn't Lance. I don't personally

believe that. I'll get into why. But that's why I think we hate him first and foremost. And for somebody to say, well, no, I hate him first and foremost because he's an asshole. You'd have to show me your list of favorite athletes. I could point a few out. I hate cheating too. Okay, in the NFL, and of course the landscape's much different than cycling. There is a good bit of probably cheating. I've certainly heard of guys on growth. You know, there's been guys that have been popped for a number of things. I think that any dude who cheats in football has an asterisk. next to their name, all their accomplishments. You could be a much better player than me,

but if you cheated, I feel pretty good about my career next to yours. At any point, that was something that I just didn't want to cross the picket line on, so to speak. I did not ever, even in my weakest moments, succumb to any temptation to get ahead. And believe me, I would have done damn near anything to win and to be better and to be the best.

That's what being an athlete is. But I also know that as a football player, you get popped one time and you're looked at differently the rest of your career. And I didn't want to be that guy. I know that one time, you know, two years on IR in St. Louis, I'm fighting to come back. I've never been hurt in my life. I think it was actually after the first stint on IR. I'm in California training. I'm dealing with a massage therapist who, you know, kind of takes me down the road.

and not in the NFL circle necessarily because I don't think he or she would have would have been so cavalier with the suggestion. But they were like, you know, there's ways to get on growth that aren't like hardcore growth hormone stuff. Like you can get on just a little bit and blah, blah, blah. And I thought about it.

I thought about it for about a week. I thought about it. Eventually I said like you're having a week. moment you have turned this stuff away passively not actively because not like people are waiting in the locker room in dark corners with needles and shit or however you you inject growth hormones but I passively resisted that urge for eight years of my career and I was very proud of that you know always being honest and I can honestly say that over an 11 year career I never did it and I

looked at guys with a pretty big side eye that did so football is a different sport. And again, I judge people in that sport a little bit differently than I would judge these cyclists only because of the scope of the cheating and the doping in their sport. I mean, as a novice in the bicycle riding world here, sports world of bicycle riding, I had no idea that so many people were doping. I knew it was a big thing. I knew that Lance was kind of the poster child, but I mean, this was the culture. But it's how you handle it. It's been proven in our country.

It's more important than the cheating. It's how you handle the cheating. You're talking about A-Rod, baseball A-Rod. Baseball fans would point out that, you know, nobody cheated more than Alex Rodriguez. I mean, there's been a few names that you would throw up there. But, you know, he was cool about it. He kind of, you know, had a grin and barrett attitude.

And look at him. He's Mr. Baseball, Mr. Likeable. although most people probably will always hate Alex Rodriguez because he's a Yankee and he probably annoys some people. But I don't see any stigma. I don't see any negative energy swirling around him as he's at the podium or at the broadcasting desk making millions and millions of dollars. I see a happy guy who's moved on. He got popped. He dealt with it.

Rodney Harrison's on TV. Rodney Harrison had his transgressions as a player. I think how you handle it. Do you take responsibility for it and move on? Listen, and I'm not saying that if you cheated in football, I think you're a bad person. If you took test or HGH or whatever you took in the NFL, it's not like I'm not going to let you watch my kid.

It's not like I think you're like an axe murderer. You were just a little bit more, you took win at all costs. and applied that that that old saying a little bit more liberally than I did. I'll judge you from a football standpoint, but I'm not judging you as a person that much, but it's how you handle it. Okay. Two things made his transgressions, Lance is really hard to overcome. And I think one was the scale and two, how he reacted.

And I'll get to that in a second. But his personality to me was one of the biggest, most interesting pieces of this whole, documentary. I think first off, he's like a bottomless pit of apathy. And I want to open this up by saying, I don't have anything against Lance Armstrong, and I don't know Lance Armstrong. I work with people on a foundational level, charity level that have also worked with Lance Armstrong, have good things to say about him. I'm sure there are a lot of people that think Lance is a good dude. And when I say he's an asshole, I'm saying the depiction of him, how he comes across sometimes his reputation. It is pretty clear to see that he's a little bit more of a flatliner from an emotional

standpoint than most people. When I say a bottomless pit of apathy, I just mean that maybe he's a bit of a nihilist outside winning and challenging himself. To his credit, he answers a lot of hard questions, including the first one off the bat. He doesn't side-step stuff. The stepdad thing. I thought that was very, very telling. You know, how a kid grows up is really important. That's that's kind of the way your personality is shaped. Unfortunately, I'm realizing a little bit more in my old age and wisdom post-quarantine that as an adult, I am going to stop trying to change other adults so much, whether that's in my personal life, outside of my personal life. By the time you're an adult, you're kind of a fully formed human

being. When you're a kid, and I've always believed this, you know, you're a ball of clay. And like, parents, you know, coaches, people that have access to this ball of clay need to be careful. And his stepdad was not careful. Listen, don't beat your kids. Not with a fraternity paddle, not with your hands, nothing. Don't do it. There's a chance they become Lance Armstrong. Sure, I saw him gloating over driving him like an animal, patting himself on the back for driving him to be what Lance Armstrong became to be.

sure there's a very minute chance he becomes Lance Armstrong or he becomes Lance Armstrong without a fucking bike and then what so I mean as an aside there like don't beat your kids and a lot about his personality to me is explained by not to overly psychoanalyze like that regimented really hardcore lifestyle that he was brought up living you know he didn't have a father figure per se biologically the guy they just describe with a guy named Gunderson with the last name Gunderson. Can you imagine if those yellow bracelets read Gunderson? I'm sure Lance has thought about that before.

I mean, he kept Buddy's name because it just sounded better. That's what it seemed like. But I think that guy thought he had a bigger part in the documentary akin to maybe Gary Payton, although less deservedly. So I thought Gary got shafted. I think, you know, this stepdad character thought he was like. like second or third line in the credits, but he was out of that bitch

as soon as they move past the fact that he used to hit him with a paddle. You know, Rick Crawford, his coach said he was a bully. His mom seemed to allow it. There's the ego conversation. Teammates, you know, talking about recounting how most cyclists don't have egos.

And then, you know, Maria says, what about Lance? And he laughs. And then there's Lance. Everyone knows Lance likes some Lance. And no offense, the cyclist. the cycling, but I think this is the perfect sport to be a robot. He seemed to truly be one with his bike. He was a machine, and doping only helped that. And no offense to cycling, I think it's the

perfect sport to be a robot, to be the personification of T-1,000. I mean, Lance seemed to literally be molded to his bike. I mean, he was a part of the machine, and doping only helped that. No offense the cycling again. I don't see it as an art form. I know it's a passionate endeavor, but it's not an endeavor where you know, you're making big plays and playing to the crowd. I mean, there's a crowd. It's exciting. I do want to see Tour de France one day. Do you have to say Tour de France or can I say Tour de France? I don't know. But eventually I want to see it. It looks intense. It looks gnarly. But I don't think about it like other sports. It doesn't seem, it's more of a machine sport to me. And I mean that in a lot of ways as a compliment.

I mean, these guys' willpowerers are amazing, amazing. But it's a very linear exercise. Is that fair to say? I think, you know, riding hundreds and hundreds of miles with a payoff at the end of the line is a lot different than, you know, playing some sports that we're very familiar with that might not take the same willpower, but are maybe more of an art form. with room for individuality and maybe some different kinds of teamwork. I know that there's one alpha.

It just doesn't feel the same as some other sports to me. So this was the perfect sport to be a robot to me for Lance. And again, his willpower, amazing. It's all relative because everybody was doping. But the tail win headwind story. That story told everything I need to know about Lance. You know, there's this new guy that everybody's hearing about. There's a buzz.

One of the current dudes is going for a ride with him for the first time. And he's saying to himself as he has a tailwind, no big deal. Who's this kid? I'm not impressed. But at the end, they have to turn around and come back and they're going into a headwind. And the guy's like, holy shit, who is this kid? And at the end of the race, Lance is like, is that all you got, you pussy? Or whatever he said.

That seemed to, again, encapsulate who Lance was. I mean, Lance liked a challenge. Lance had incredible genetics, whoever gave him the genetics to be able to do what he did, but the willpower, that gravel in his guts to be able to do these really physical, strenuous things, with or without the doping. But again, you can't eliminate that landscape

from the context of who he was. A lot of people were doping. So we'll get back to that willpower in a bit, but what I really liked about the documentary was the education about the sport. I mean, for me, and by the way, this is one day, and this might call the entire podcast and the question, the first day of my life that I knew that Peloton wasn't just,

you know, an exercise bike that people got divorces over, if you remember the holiday commercial. I had no idea. I thought they just made that shit up because it sounded French and sounded cool. I didn't know that, like, that was such a universal term. but I love the sequence where they just laid it all out. And that every team in Europe had a really distinct personality. Belgians are sneaky and clever, Spanish or humble.

Italians are loud and showy. Germans are organized. Friends think they're hot shit. I was wondering where the Irish were. Irish or drunk. That's self-deprecating. Can't be racist. I'm Irish. And, you know, it was just interesting.

interesting to see because it made you appreciate better the landscape that Lance Armstrong was trying to enter this kid from Texas. And of course, that whole synopsis ends with the dude saying that you'll never meet weirder people than American cyclists. So this kid is just a renegade. He probably looks like an alien to most of these people, acts like an alien. You've got young Fowler at Lake Cuomo with Lance. Evidently surprisingly, they were buddies.

And by the way, Lance had his own house and the dude who hated him. I think his name was Bobby was big mad about him having his own house. Also, Lance Armstrong lives in Austin and Lake Como. I mean, slaying, having a terrific time in his personal life. I'm imagining Lance Armstrong had a pretty good personal life. Are you kidding me? He did seem like an asshole in Italy. he was kind of like in one of those old interviews he was mad at the Italians for not knowing his language but suffice to say the entire landscape was a doping landscape it was it was an almost an extraterrestrial landscape for americans i mean it was it was a bunch of nationalities who were well represented in a sport but it's this sport that has a really rich history and i started to watch uh slaying the badger today and i was just as gripped by it but i got sidetracked i wanted to watch it as a backdrop for this um

I think one of the rich traditions in the sport seemed to be the drugs, cocaine, amphetamines, painkillers, and then EPOs, which trigger red blood cell production. And obviously, it's a game changer for anybody using them. Rocket fuel, as it was referred to. And the rumors began in the early 90s right before Lance got on the scene. And early on, it sounded like people were possibly dying from taking these drugs, et cetera. Lance bursts on the scene, wins a couple stages of the tour, he's on the map. You know, the Italian team's dominating in the mid-90s. He gets hooked up with this doctor, of course, whose name is Ferrari.

And this is where it begins. And by the way, Ferrari was a big fat shamer. Go figure. There's like fat camp with forcibly injecting EPOs into people. Only these people have like 4% body fat to start out. then you get the cancer thing, which was shocking to me. In the mid-90s, late 90s, when Lance was diagnosed with cancer, I'm a kid. I don't know, you know, I don't know my elbow from my ass when it comes to different types of cancers, different stages.

Rightfully so, you're a kid, you shouldn't. But I didn't realize that he had such a small chance to live. I mean, he's confused why he got cancer. He's very healthy. He admits it could have been growth hormones. There was only one year he says he took growth. It's even in his brain, which I don't know. And there's this five-year period, as they mentioned,

which has to be the most terrifying part of cancer outside of obviously the fear of not winning the battle is the rebound, you know, the five-year period where you think you're over it and it can come back at any time. And not only for a normal person, would that be terrifying? But imagining that through the lens of an athlete has to be nuts. And then again, willpower, regardless of what you think about Lance, beating cancer, and obviously some sheer luck. And being blessed goes into that. But you got to have the world to fight.

You got to have some gravel in your guts. And you have to be lucky. And then to come out of it and get back on the bike, no matter if you're doping or not, that's pretty impressive. The foundation starts. He's coming back. USPS is the only team that won some.

I don't know this part of the story until the day. He got his ass kicked in 98. And then it just rolls. He goes on that seven Tour de France run. And the rest is history. I mean, there's the cortisone scare, which you skated off at the time by writing a fake prescription for a topical ointment saying it was saddle rash or whatever they're calling it.

I'm imagining what they're referring to is that like, This is what happens to your ass when you ride on a hard seat for too long. I can imagine that's tough. I got one of those watt bikes. It's like a real bicycle. And I ride it for 30 minutes. And I feel like the circulation to my unit is cut off. It's just the fucking thing's numb from these bike seats.

I can only imagine. I think, you know, these Peloton type seats are bad. Try the tort of front on for some. I mean, that's got to make you, it's got to make you worry about your, your unit there, etc. But I digress. So there's a fake prescription for a topical ointment. He's injecting cortisone intermuscularly or however you say that. He's actually doing it to enhance his performance.

Obviously, he's able to skate because he says it's for his ass riding on the seat. The doping thing in general is the main course here. We all know what happens eventually. The next episode will hopefully detail all that because I want this to be a really exhaustive, honest look into Lance's life. And that's not just the ascension, which never feels like an ascension, maybe because we know how it ends, but also the downfall. And we'll find out next week. I want to see, you know, the vehement denials, the bullying court, the threatening people, the eventual admission. and we will, the fall from grace.

I don't know how much they'll detail it, how much contrition he'll show for, you know, threatening people, teammates, intimidating people. I mean, that stuff makes you an asshole. But he's got a chance to be contrite. I guess here's what I wonder, though, if he is contrite next weekend, or he was contrite in the making of this film

and it's going to be revealed next Sunday night, are we going to think it's enough, or are we just going to say, this is a puff piece? And I don't feel sorry for him, but there's not a lot of wins here to be had for Lance. The hay is in the barn when it comes to this stuff. And I think in judging Lance, at least for me, when it comes to the doping, there's two factors I mentioned.

I think when it comes to Lance on the doping, there's two factors for me, as I mentioned, scope and reaction. Number one, scope. Everybody in the sports seemed to be doing it. They talked about it, you know, from a 10% boost standpoint in a race that lasts 100 hours. hours, 10 hours is 10%. That's astronomical when it comes to the distance between the first and the last cyclist. That's a two hour difference. They talked about the guy in France who just couldn't race because he decided not to dope. Okay. I heard they stripped Lance of a title or we're looking at it or whatever. They had to go to like 26 to find the next guy who wasn't doping.

and even that guy, by all accounts, was probably lucky and didn't get popped. The whole sport was doping. That's how I see it with my untrained eye, at least. Now, not everybody had the means. I know he spent like a million dollars with his little Ferrari buddy, and it was like an arm race, an arms race within the sport. But all of the guys who won before him and after him in that time period have been tied to doping. this is an individual sport unlike a team sport where it may seem more forgivable

on top of that I think these are the biggest things and this is where it falls on our lap like maybe it's more about how we're reacting than what Lance actually did or didn't do he shouldered the hope of millions of Americans who were joining in the race and there was also the live strong part you know how he reacted let's say not well I mean that that's where he really, I think, screwed the pooch. He did all the things we talked about earlier. Intimidation, the whole nine yards, denial holier than now leading up to the dam breaking. It sounded like, again, that was outlined more in the 2015 doc.

He did anything but take it like a champ. And he was an asshole about it. I think he'd probably admit that. And we'll see if he admits it next one. week. Although I'm not ready to DFI whistleblowers who have like long prospered as a result of what they did. I mean, I think it's a net

positive that we know who's who. But Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton, you know, the book, Landis in court. Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, their hands are forced a little bit. So

in conclusion, I try to grapple with what I think of Lance Armstrong. It's a mixed bag. I'm not really good at black and white. I live in the gray sometimes, especially when dealing with people. I look at it and think what would I do if I met Lance? Because I think that's the true that's the true barometer for me about how much I dislike somebody or disapprove of some these actions because there's very few people I'm just going to meet and be an asshole to.

And if I met Lance, I would probably be friendly than Lance. I'm not sure what he's really like now. I would go as far as saying I even admire his intestinal fortitude. Not a hot take. Let me explain. I mean, the guy beat cancer. That's definitely an admirable feat. We celebrated it every turn appropriately.

What about this? this guy cheating in sports or being an asshole discredits that accomplishment. Beat cancer, tremendous willpower in a sport riddled with doping and cheaters. It was just the best cheater. I don't know if I trust him. I don't know if he's a good guy, but I certainly, I'm certainly not going to get worked up over it. Listen, if you really want me to get mad about Landstrom-strung, I'm just not going to.

it doesn't move me. Maybe it should. Maybe I don't care enough about cycling. There's a Bill Burr joke, I think it was I read, or somebody made this joke that at least he's not like an oil tycoon. I'm pretty sure those guys are all Lance Armstrongs that just don't have great cardio. You know, but he thankfully never entered that industry as the joke goes. because disappointing fans is a lot different than defrauding millions and millions of people.

I know you can make the argument that he defrauded the industry or USPS. You could bring up the charity stuff, although I think they're completely separate. This is an interesting one to me. I mean, he's raised over $300 million for cancer research. I believe it's cancer research. It goes to show you how effective that campaign was to me. I mean, I had the bracelet, but he's made a positive impact in that world. And I don't know if it matters who it came from.

He's not a pedophile. Again, he hasn't killed anybody. He cheated at a sport and he's an asshole. And quite frankly, I'm not going to give back $300 plus million of positive output because I don't like where it came from. It really doesn't change to me the difference that he was able to make with his platform. even if it was a lot. Again, the reason we liked him all along had nothing to do with him being a good guy.

He is probably an asshole, but it's more of a level playing field than for any athlete who's gotten caught open. And I think the biggest irony of this whole thing is that getting mad at Lance seems to have more to do with us. us than does with Lance. He's undeniably, probably not the warmest guy. He's definitely a cheater. He's definitely a liar. Maybe he's not a good guy.

I don't know. Most of this revolves around sports, which we all agree is just a game. The irony, though, is that we hate cheating because it denies us of a real evaluation of who's the best.

You know, how can we accurately identify the cream rising to the top. We hate it. We feel cheated as fans and competitors, but fans. I'm speaking as a fan. When somebody cheats, because we don't know who really was the dude. And guess what? In that sport, we have the perfect controlled situation where regardless of cheating, we actually know that Lance Armstrong was probably the dude. But we hate him the most because he was the best. So we hate cheaters because we're denied the opportunity to see who King's shit is. And King shit is just the most famous cheater in the sport.

So we hate him the most, even though he's probably the best. Now, I could be way off. I just started looking at cycling today. It's like the first day of my life that I ever fucking paid attention to cycling. And that's no disrespect. I think it's incredible, the willpower of these guys. Unbelievable. The physical exertion, the dedication.

but from what little I know about cycling, it's hard for me to really get that mad at Lance Armstrong. If you're older and it enraged you when the news broke, you just have to ask yourself, did you really think he wasn't doping? Because from my friends who like cycling, everybody was fucking doping, and they knew it. So my hot take is that I'm not going to get mad about Landsharmstrong.

Instead, I appreciate some interesting long-form sports documentaries. Let's keep it going. So thanks for listening. We'll be back Friday, and we've got a lot going on Friday. That's usually a bad thing, too much stuff going on, but this is all good stuff. We've got the Steve Kerr. Yes, the guy I wrote a jet ski with Steve Kerr. I'm going to prove it on Friday.

You'll hear all about it. Also talk about what to expect with the Warriors, the upcoming season, all the crazy shit. We'll probably talk a little last dance. Why not? Yeah, he was in that documentary. See you Friday.