Green Light with Chris Long - Rage's Tom Morello's on “Sticking to Music,” Springsteen & Sabbath, and His Beloved Cubbies.

Episode Date: June 19, 2020

0:36 - open. 3:51 - Tom Morello on Politics and Social Media, Politically Charged Songs, and his thoughts on “Shut up and play”. 23:30 - Quick Hitters with Tom Morello. Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As my favorite band The Clash once famously said, the future is unwritten, and it's we're the ones that are writing it. You know, so there's no one on the sidelines right now. You can't be passive right now. If you are, then you're fighting with oppression and injustice. Allbirds would like to use this time to share a list of upcoming primary elections for various national state and local offices. On June 23rd, Kentucky, New York, Virginia, on June 30th, Colorado, Oklahoma, Utah, on July 7th, Delaware and New Jersey on July 11th, Louisiana, and on the 14th of July, Maine and Texas. Allbirds encourages you to use resources such as vote.org and when we all vote to confirm your

registration details, polling place, absentee status, and other important information. Happy Friday, everybody. This is Chris Long and you are listening to the Greenlight Pod. I got a great guest today, man. The good guests are rolling in, dude. Thanks to you guys. You guys keep spreading the word. Keep subscribing, keep listening. I appreciate y'all. Tom Morello is the guest today. If you know Rage Against the Machine, you know Tom.

If you know audio slave, you know Tom. And if you have been paying attention to Tom, you know that he's involved in a plethora of musical endeavors across genres, very diverse in his influence, and, you know, very diverse in the group that influence him musically in launching his own career. And also, kind of a cheat code when it comes to entertainers, athletes, anybody that you pay attention to online with their political takes because you can't tell him to stick to music. He has a degree in political science from Harvard.

I think that means he's qualified. So if you paid attention lately, he's gotten into a couple internet dustups where somebody walked right into a posterization, you know, telling him to stick to music. Good luck with that because the guy is extremely bright and well. versed in the topics at hand today. So Tom's going to be a great interview. 30 minutes is what he gave us, and he's gracious with his time because he is a Renaissance man in a world of Renaissance men. I mean, not just the music in the age of COVID. He is homeschooling two kids, and he is a little league coach from what I hear. So not just a badass rock and roll star, but also a dad, standard dad, and an activist and all those things.

So right now, I'm coming to you live from a hotel room where I'm doing a sleep study to find out if I have sleep apnea. Yeah, this is long overdue, but I'm hooked up to so many electrodes. I'm like a spaceman getting ready to take a nap in one of those pods for like a light year. I'm going to wake up in the morning in a faraway galaxy, and when I get there, they'll tell me if I sleep like a fat guy.

I'm not sure. Maybe I do. We'll see. Don't freak out. Greenlight, faithful. this is a good thing. But anyways, yeah, I feel like a total idiot right now recording an open for a pod hooked up to a bunch of wires

and the nurse is going to come back in soon and I don't want to be talking to my phone when she does. So let's wrap this open up. I did talk to Tom earlier today. He was wonderful. You're really going to like the interview. I hope he comes back again. Anyways, guys, sorry for this short pod.

Maybe you like that better. So enjoy and I'll catch y'all next week. Take care. Tom, you've had Paul Ryan professes love for rage against the machine or I guess you could rather say rage against Paul Ryan. Sure. Had a dude recently cut you out of his life because you were, quote, getting too political. What does that say about how closely people listen to the music they profess to like? Yeah, well, here's my thing on that. First of all, I've always subscribed to the idea there is no political or any other litmus test for enjoying any kind of music. For example, a lot of music

that I like has absolutely, you know, the music, the metal music that I grew up on had these kind of ridiculous devil-worshipping lyrics or misogynous lyrics that I was not down with, but I love the music. So one of those things that rage against the machine and some of my other projects have had in common is that it's, you know, it's great rock and roll that draws people, whether they're drawn to the aggression or the guitar solas or whatever, without paying close attention to the litter. There's nothing wrong with that. One of the things that does do is it opens up people's mind. Like say you love rock and roll. Well, some songs are about the devil, some songs about groupies, and some songs are about Guatemalan labor union. So be careful you might

learn, you might learn something. And as millions of fans have through the years can attest to that. So I have no problem with that. One thing that does irk me is like in the case with like Paul Ryan, where someone is kind of using rage against the machine is like a badge of hipness or something when they themselves embody the polar opposite of the ideals that myself and the band is power. Especially if they're knowingly doing it. I mean, you have, I got to stick to sports crowd. That's what I've dealt with for some time. Oh my gosh. I can imagine. But the phrase, pardon the phrase, stick to music and keep the politics out of music. It's hypocritical on its head anyways because people are not sticking to their vocations and they've

likely voted for Trump or Reagan, you know, or they consume Fox News and correspondence like the great John Voight from the motion picture, Anaconda, talking to you about climate change or Ted Nugent. Like, how do you navigate those waters? And has it been more, has it been more of a relevant conversation lately? Well, to me, to me, that's perfectly simple. And the reason why people say stick to sports or stick them music when you express a political opinion is not because they want you to stick to sports or music. It's because they disagree with the opinion. that you're expressing. And I've been, for my career, I'm crystal quick, when you pick up a guitar or when you pick up a football, you are not putting down your first amendment rights. Those are ours,

no matter what our job is. If you're a carpenter, if you're a plumber, if you're a student, if you're a homeless person, if you're at the top of the charts or at the bottom of the pile, you have a right to express yourself. And so for people to, you know, the reason why they don't make it is because it causes this cognitive dissonance. That they, like, they really like your band, I can't stand it that you believe in things that are, you know, anti-racist or anti-imperios or whatever. And that's frankly their problem, not mine. And you bring up the,

an important phrase right now, cognitive dissonance, because that, I believe is what drives a lot of people crazy, uh, that claim to not want to get down with anything that's progressive. Because I think they see the case for progressivism and for, yeah,

for reaching for equality. and trying to live up to these ideals. And I think they know it deep down and it angers them that you're presenting them with facts and it's counter to the culture that they've been a part of. Yeah, absolutely. And just, you know, for some of our listeners, like what cognitive dissonance means is like when your brain holds two opposite ideas

that you know and suspect are true and it's the way that humans are able to sort of deal with those two contending facts. Now, I like rage against machine. They're a rock band. Rage Against Machine has political opinions that differ from mine. I'm in a meltdown. And a lot of the points are good points. Yeah, exactly.

And so, especially in these times, you know, with the global awakening and confrontation of racism and white supremacy and police brutality, it's like it really does question some of the fundamental cornerstone beliefs of our society, which is, you know, the cops are always the good guys. that there, you know, once we had a black president, there's no such thing as racism in our country. And yet when you're confronted with video after video after video after video, obviously showing that there's considerably much to be done, it causes that same sort of internal friction in a lot of people,

which leads to, you know, some of the crazier things that we've seen. The thing we're talking about activism and entertainment, and you, you've, I mean, you have, you're like a cheat code because you do have the degree that you have from the school that you have it from. and you're well-versed in what you're talking about, not every musician or athlete, even the most committed have that background. Is it possible to be, even in a time like this,

an entertainer or an athlete and at least partially opt out of the conversation because I think there's a difference between acknowledgement of a problem, which is necessary right now and should be the prerequisite for you continuing to be a public figure. And then on the other end of that coin is,

okay continuing that and parlaying it into an activist role which is not something you should take lightly is activism not for every musician yeah well i mean first of all i say you do you you really don't have to have a you know an honors degree from an i believe university in order to be able to make moral judgments about police murdering black people you know you don't have to read noem chomsky to know that that's not right so that's that's one thing um but but it is i think you know there was a really there was a decades-long drought in the world of sport really from the time of

sort of Muhammad Ali until the Black Lives Matter movement where no one would touch a political, you know, remotely political issue with a 10-foot pole. In music, you know, it's slightly different.

I think slightly different goalposts, you know, that you're shooting at and maybe a little bit wider. But I've always had a great deal of admiration for anyone in any profession who refuses to leave behind their convictions and their vocation. And I think that's one of the most important things about being human is to bring who you are

into what you do. And whether it's, you know, whether it's just proclaiming human rights or civil rights or whether it's standing up to a bully. The key to that is not just, oh, I convince this person who I'm arguing with that I'm right or wrong. When people witness, when people witness like someone they admire, like a defensive lineman or a guitar player, whatever, stand up against injustice, it gives them the courage to do that, too, perhaps. Because perhaps they're peer group. And like, I grew up in a 100% Lily White, archly conservative town.

And, but I had a mom who was Irish-Talian, like, had this ferocity to her in this sort of this global, radical perspective that made me feel like, ideas that I had that were outside of the ideas that my friends had were ones that were equally of value. Yeah, I mean, you're talking about arguing with people, and that's all we seem to do these days. And one thing about Twitter, unfortunately, it's a great forum and social media can be really, really productive, especially for like myself who has a podcast selfishly or a foundation that I'm working on. But you don't see a lot of people winning arguments or people can see it. No, no, no. On line.

So I guess the question is, what's the point of arguing? Can people change? Have we passed the point of the carrot and are we into the stick territory? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that there's really much upside to comment section debate. You see very, very few minds change and a more way to kind of blow off steam. The way that the world changes is people organized for change.

That's it. And it's not from the, even though we've seen some very surprisingly positive of Supreme Court decisions lately. It is not the wisdom of the Supreme Court or the wisdom of Congress that makes things better. It is people whose names you will never know, people whose names do not appear in history books, who do the tireless grassroots organizing for causes to make the world better, whether it was women's rights to vote, whether it was the civil rights women, or whether it was the eventual fall of the Berlin Wall or the end of apartheid in South Africa. It was people, just like anyone listening to this now, the people who have changed the world in the

had no more power, courage, money, intelligence than anybody listening to this right now. They stood up in their place and time for what they thought was just to help make the world a more humane place. How do we incentivize people to join the party? And then when people get there, albeit late to the party in 2020, like a bunch of people just realized that racism was real. And while you do want to hold their feet to the fire and say, like, where the fuck have have you been?

You also want to say, hey, that's good. You know, like, how do you walk that line of being? welcoming because what's the point of arguing and raising awareness if you're not trying to change people's hearts you're just preaching of course of course and i think that i mean i think it's got to be 100% welcoming and there's you know the town that the liberty bill illinois is the town that i grew up in and growing up there you know when i was 13 years old one morning there was a noose in my family's garage you know i heard a lot of n-word growing up and about two weeks ago over a thousand people in that town showed up for a black

Black Lives Matter, rally, and arch. And some of those, like, I've got friends who still live there, and their kids who are now, like, high school age, I was FaceTiming with them. And this moment in history has changed their lives, has changed them as people, and has made them want to make a difference. And to use, and my young friend who's like 18 just graduated from high school, he said, well, what do I do? I said, I'm the one that should be asking you. This is your generation's time to step up with your creativity and your courage. and to make a difference in your place and time where you are on now. And I think I think that, you know, talking about, hey, the next generation is going to be the

generation that probably gets this thing right. Hopefully, you know, profits of rage. I mean, I've heard you talk about that's kind of been this entryway into a youthful crowd that maybe rage itself didn't have. Yep, yep, absolutely. You know, and that's, I try to do is just what I said earlier. He's like, I didn't choose to be a guitar player. Guitar kind of chose me, so I'm stuck. Blessed and cursed, I'm stuck.

So it's my job, now that I am a guitar player, to use my vocation as a divining rod for my conviction. And the good news is that, you know, we get to play in front of crowds of, well, not anymore. But hopefully, hopefully one day again, you know, play in front of crowds of a certain size with a message. And again, if people want to come and enjoy the music, just the music, that is, I have no problem with that whatsoever.

However, be careful, you might learn something. Speaking of, you said the word bully earlier, I think that everybody knows who the bully is. Did I hear this right in the Sleep Now in the Fire video? You guys had a premonition. Are y'all the Simpsons? Weird. Weird. I got to say, really weird.

Yeah, the Rage Against Machine made a video for a song, Sleep Now on the Fire. We filmed on Wall Street. Michael Moore was the director of the video. And we handed out these placards to day traders who were just walking. in their lunch break and rage is like rocking on the steps there. And one of the placards said Trump for president, 2000.

So there was a bit of a there was a bit of a Nostradana. First of all, my apologies because we may have somehow entered that idea into the universe. But yeah, it was a Nostradamus-like moment for the band. Who needs the Maying calendar? Just go back

and I mean, you guys can tell us exactly when the world ends. With Trump, I mean, he's definitely emboldened the worst of our society. That's obvious. People that say, what's happened to America, we're just seeing the black light in the hotel room, if you know what I mean. I think that's right. You know what I'm saying? So we might have emboldened people to show who they are and it's going to be easier to sift through the who, you know, who is who in the future. I mean, this could be, if we come out of this thing clean, it might spur the overhaul we've been all wanting.

Yeah, well, I mean, the national, the domestic and global anti-racist uprising that you're seeing, I do not believe would have happened to the degree that it is happening were it not for the Trump administration. Now, what we make of that uprising is still to be determined. As my favorite band The Clash once famously said, the future is unwritten. And it's we're the ones that are writing it. So there's no one on the sidelines right now. Like whether, if you are, you can't be passive, you know, right now. If you are, then you're fighting with oppression and justice.

It's time for, you know, to empty the bench. Speaking of the bench, I have a question for you. Because I know that you as a football player, you know, you know, as a white football player, you took a famously sort of took a knee during sort of the Kaepernick knee taking here. Now, now one of the things that I, you know, I used to play sports in high school and before. And there was always this sort of locker room band. of brothers things. And we're all on each other's side and we got each other's backs. If there's problems, we take care of, you know, like, you know what I'm talking about.

Like it's that, that sort of, that sort of culture. So where was that culture and some people were kneeling and some weren't? Yeah. So, so here, here's, and by the way, common misconception and certainly, I was one of Capp's earliest supporters to speak out for sure. Malcolm Jenkins was the teammate of mine who was protesting and he was choosing to raise a fist because that was his way of protesting. So I joined him in his way of protesting. You know, we never hit a knee. But to us, it's the same state, it's the same fucking statement, you know. Absolutely.

And, and, and, you know, there was a deafening silence with white players and certainly black players, but black players, you know, this, this isn't, you know, black people are not to be burdened with. racism all alone. So I don't look at my black teammates who would be risking their livelihoods and saying, like, hey, you guys need to, it's, it's on us. It's on us to speak up. It's on us to. And I think that, you know, to the point earlier of like as an athlete or an entertainer, some guys don't give a shit.

Apathy is one of the most dangerous evils in the world. Some guys are racist, which I really don't think there's too many of them in the NFL. I mean, that might be a naive thing to say, but I've sat in locker rooms, had tough conversations with guys that look like me that don't look like me for 11 years. Yeah. And then the third category, which is why I think 2020 is such a, it's a positive intersection we're at here right now in a lot of ways because the third subsection of that population of white players in the NFL are guys that aren't comfortable talking.

They don't know what to say. It's a minefield. Even if you join in, sometimes you can be admonished for not. Of course. For not saying it correctly. There's things that you can say, like, I know how you feel. I mean, that'll get you your boot off stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's some guys that just are a little bit intimidated. But now the point of guys talking in 2016 is that it's 2020. There is no excuse for opting out of this conversation. And if you opt out of it, we are at an intersection where I got to make some judgments. Yeah, about you and your character. So, I mean, I think that why. athletes need to realize that there's been a number of guys who did not lose their job for kneeling or for speaking out there's nothing to be afraid of at this point there was something to be afraid of in

2016 i do believe that certainly cap was blackballed and there were other guys that are having a hard time getting employment to this day i believe yeah yeah when i was a free agent um i had a hard time getting a job after i spoke out about cap that's not say i was blackballed i got a job eventually but i do think that once you're labeled as a guy who's going to go there they're afraid to to to bring you on the team. So we'll see what happens, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got one last question for you.

Okay, so you have a dad that plays the same sport. It's like, how is that? Is that like awesome or is that competitive or is it weird? Yeah. But what is that like? So it's an interesting family dynamic because my dad, who's a pro football hall of famer, and I certainly won't be, you know,

I was a real good player, but you know, you're not getting that gold jacket. So when you get in the league, I think the most important thing is that it humbles you. It can make you kind of hardened and bitter too because any success you have is going to be not enough for people. And, you know, if I had this career I had, you know, as anybody else, it is a, it's a huge success.

But for some people that always say, well, you weren't your dad. But that really hardened me and helped me to deal with criticism, made me mentally tougher. You know, I had a bull's eye on my back since I was younger. And the same thing with my... My brother played for the Bears. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A long time.

Just retired. So, you know, playing in Chicago, you got to have that armor. And I think being Howie Long's kid really helped Kyle. And I know it helped me. Tom, how about voting real quick before I get into the fun stuff? Sure. You said this. You can't be on the sidelines.

We both, I think, share the sentiment that the entire thing needs an overhaul. And I don't trust either party. Sure. But this fall, it's a necessity, I believe. Yep, yep, yep. I mean, I've always thought that like a lot of, you know, a lot of black people, a lot of people of different colors have perished, trying to guarantee us the right to vote, both here and around the world.

So that's nothing that I take lightly. However, I used to work, I was the scheduling secretary for a United States Senator for two years, Senator Alan Cranston, Democrat from California. And so I was, I'm in right. I'm in seat number, you know, one B and got to see how the sausage is made. And it's much worse than you could ever imagine. And, you know, and so while there certainly are important shades of difference, I think of this particularly environmental global crossroads that we're looking at, you know,

some potential extinction event in the coming decades if we don't get shit right. So voting is certainly something to do. However, that's not merely casting your ballot into the void every four years is not enough if you want to create a more just and humane planet for yourself and your children and your grandchildren. That's the key thing is like, yes, vote, but don't just vote. Like people, like I said earlier, people who changed the world were not, they didn't just go to the ballot box that they organized and they figured out ways in their time with

the technology and the people around them and the creativity. and the zeitgeist of the moment to get their hands on the wheel of history. So that's an important additional component and the more important component in my view. Whoever gets in the White House, we're going to be combating. Yeah, you got to do both. You got to do both. I mean, like, Black Lives Matter doesn't have a headquarters. So that just says it all.

I mean, it's people. It's organic. It's authentic. Yeah. A hard right turn here. Okay. Speaking of people totally missing the point when there's a real message injected into music, give me the most hilariously mindlessly co-signed song that's actually political

or serious in nature, and why is it born in the USA? You want my thoughts on born in the USA? Because that one is like, that's an easy one right there. No, I mean, but are there others? I know you know, Bruce. I know you've worked with the East. Sure. I mean, I would say, I would say one would be killing in the name.

You know, like the refrain, you won't do what you tell me, you know, is a great one to in the when you're in the gym. Two days ago before I booked this interview, I'm working on my dad bod and, you know, I'm defiant in the gym. I got you guys blaring. My parents are like, can you turn that down?

I got, yeah, we have, how many muscles, Rage Against Machine is built across the world. I've, I've shuddered to think how much deadlift we've, we've made,

made people able to do. But I think that that song would be a good one because it does, you know, at its core, it has that almost, you know, while the meaning of the song, specifically relate to sort of racism and police departments, but it does have that also.

You can twist it into kind of an adolescent cry against mom and dad. However, I would, you know, what I think is the power of that song is, Frederick Douglass, who was the freed slave who became a great orator, an abolitionist. He said, the day that I was freed from slavery was not the day when I was physically freed from my bomb. It was the day when Master said yes, and I said no. And that song very much, and that song very much encapsulates that. How about top three Bruce songs and favorite album?

Top three. Ooh, okay. Favorite Bruce album is Nebraska. It's the, you know, the dark folk album. And then I would go top three songs just off the top of my head. I'm going to go with The Promise. I'm going to go with Adam Raised the Kane. Those of us with bad issues, we love that one.

Yeah. And lastly, I'm going to go with a little song called The Ghost of Tom Joke. Hey, listen, and by the way, that's a great song. And I know that being respectful of the boss, the ghost of Tom, Joe is one of the favorite recordings of rage that I have out there. So, I mean, you guys absolutely killed that. It was unbelievable. And then I got to see The Boss live on Broadway singing Ghost of Tom Jod.

And it's just like, for me, being younger in 2000, whenever that album came out, I'm a kid, and the first way I get introed into that is you guys. But also with parents who are big Bruce fans, I got to bring them to Broadway, actually. Funny enough, Tunnel of Love is one of my favorite Bruce albums. I know that some people are like, what? No, no, no, no, no. Here's the thing about Bruce Springton is that that guy, wherever he turns his poetic lens, he does great work.

Yeah. You know, if he's writing about Dust Bowl refugees or if he's writing about, like, love, shaky, a shaky marriage. Yeah. His poetic lens is just really fantastic. And so, I mean, he's a national treasure and we're glad that's lucky to have him. Darkness on the edge of town also. That's, that's probably.

Yeah, that's my other way. In Nebraska and darkness are my mind. Yeah. I love Nebraska, though, because it's so unexpected from him and like the height of his Bruce Springsteeness, you know, and global popularity. He did that. He did that because that's the record you wanted to make. And that, you know, that's not the kind of.

decision that, you know, Michael Jackson was making or whatever, you know, whatever the star time were. And so it really sort of speaks to his integrity. They're calling the boss for a reason there. Yeah. All right. So real quick, some other quick hitters. You're a Sabbath fan. And actually, interestingly enough, I just found out they started selling Black Live Matter t-shirts because of you. Yeah. I saw that. Yeah. A friend of mine made that shirt and I put it was on an Instagram, you know, it's in sort of Sabbath lettering because Black Lives Matter.

And I posted on an Instagram picture of me and my mom, you know, with a Black Lives Matter sign and me wearing the shirt. And geezer Butler, you know, saw her Instagram. And, you know, a week later, Sabbath is they're donating all of the proceeds. That's pretty damn cool to grow up on Sabbath. And then you're like influencing them. Are you kidding me? Like, hey, so the question is, what's the better album? opener, War Pigs or Black Sabbath? Because I can't imagine in 1970, the band Black Sabbath

comes out with a album called Black Sabbath and a song called Black Sabbath. Yeah, well, I think that my favorite of those two songs, I mean, War Pigs is like the jam. War Pigs might be the greatest metal song of all time. I'm going to go with that one. However, you're right. And that in 1970, coming out of like the summer of love and all of these kind of like hippie bands and these kind of trippy, this trippy, you know, Bay Area music and Grateful Dead and whatnot. And these four dudes from industrial Birmingham come out with that song, which is about as, kind of as evil as evil yet. It's awesome. It's like deal, deal with this. Oh my God. Okay, lightning around. I'm let you go. Okay, you're a Cubs fan. You meet Steve Bartman. What do you do? Oh, no, I, you know what?

First of all, I'm not a Steve Bartman apologist. I'm a base. football fan, I would know better to touch that ball. But once we, once we won the World Series, all is forgotten, all is forgiven. They gave him a ring. So he's good, he's good. And, you know, give him a hug. It's all good. Where were you? If we didn't have, we didn't have a World Series by now, it's a different conversation. Yeah, no, totally. I mean, the happiest guy for the Cubs winning the World Series is Steve Barman. It's not a player. Where were you when you saw the Cubs win at all? I was in Cleveland. I was there.

Oh, nice. Okay. I was there tears streaming down my face. Oh, my God. And I brought my aunt Isabelle, she's the one that got me in the Cubs. She lived 82 years and never saw it. So I brought a photograph of her for the game so she could witness with me. The next day, I drove to the small town cemetery where she's buried, planted the

dubbing flag on her grave, popped a bottle of champagne, and rode of the Chicago Tribune's fourth section, front and back. That's amazing. How about, how about more Chicago folklore here, the Lala protest? who was the most afraid to whip their dick out? Well, that happened in Philadelphia, but it wasn't. Okay, that was in Philly. Okay, okay.

Yeah, when it was when La Paloosa was a tour that went city to city to city. And I will say that it was not a unanimous vote. I'll leave it at that. It was not the unanimous phone. Luckily, it was presumably a summertime? It was summertime, but it was not a unanimous vote. Got you. So if shit hits the fan, what's your ex-pack country?

Where are you headed? Oh, that's actually a really good question. Because we talk about that sometimes. I would say probably, probably Ireland. Because I think I could get a passport. I've named after Thomas Fitzgerald, who's my great-grandfather on that side. And we've got some really good friends there, great educational systems. They've come around on gay marriage.

Cool. okay i'll be in cost rica so i'll uh well that's well you yeah your weather's gonna be a lot better yeah favorite city to playing in the u.s and internationally well in the u.s it would have to be too there's always going home to chicago because playing in the venues that i went to see bands growing up

there's nothing like that there's nothing like that you know um and then lau then l a because the relationship that all of my bands from rage to audio slave my night watchman stuff the profits of rage um that we've had with this city it's a very, it's like nothing, it's like nothing I've ever been around. I've seen a lot of bands play a lot of shows in a lot of places, but, you know, like a raid show or my solo shows here in L.A. are very, very special. Last one here. A musician you'd want to see Run for Office.

It's a good one. That's a real good one. I'm semi-stumped by that, but I'm going to try to come up with something. I mean, who would have to see Run for Office? This is going to sound crazy, but I'm going to go with either either Marilyn Manson or or Shudder Jennings is he sensible.

Hey listen. Hey, do you know my firstborn son's name is Whalen? Oh, no. I didn't know that. I didn't know Whalen well, but I knew him a little bit during them. Man, that's pretty cool. Yeah.

All right, man. Well, this has been fun. You've got to come on another time. We've got to get you. I'd be happy to you. Thank you. It's really nice to, meet you and you know and congratulations both on your great career and and on your willingness

you know in a medium where a lot of people don't stand up for having an opinion and the sticking to it that's really really great appreciate yeah man so yeah we i think we share a lot in common we we both can't keep our mouths shut so anytime you want to come on and and chop it where do you where do you live i live in charlottesville i live in charlottesville the home of both sides good people yeah yeah yeah so so when next time coming through on tour if there are ever shows again, please let me know and I'll be happy to search out. Let's do it, man. Let's do it. All right, man. Thank you so much. All right. Take care, brother.