Green Light with Chris Long - Rams DC Chris Shula! LA Rams Defense, Sean McVay & Coaching Jared Verse!

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

Chris Shula, coming off his first season as the LA Rams defensive coordinator, talks with Chris about the LA Rams defense, his background in coaching, being on staff with the Rams with Aaron Donald, Wade Phillips' influence, Sean McVay and coaching Jared Verse and Braden Fiske. (00:00) - Intro (3:00) - Growing Up Around Football (7:05) - Path To Defensive Coordinator (10:55) - Rams DLine (15:35) - Aaron Donald (19:45) - Jared Verse and Braden Fiske (26:53) - Veteran Secondary & Wade Phillip's Influence (31:05) - Rams Super Bowls in 2018 and 2021 (35:10) - Facing Saquon Barkley and the Eagles (38:30) - The LA Rams Rag-Bandit (40:00) - Liam Coen (41:15) - Favorite Edge Rushers to Watch Across the NFL Green Light Podcast March Madness Tournament! Click the link below to fill out the form granting you entry into the GLP bracket! Prizes include 1st place $500, 2nd place $250, 3rd place $100 in Bet MGM gift cards. Must be 21+ to be eligible for a prize. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScbnomKvB7t2zNKqvKNMstq_P2HClxciUC95moAHD-mDIKcyg/viewform Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ In need of sweet threads to vibe like Chris and the fellas? Check out https://greenlightpodcast.org/ for everything merch wise and then some! Also, check out our paddling partners at Appomattox River Company to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. https://paddleva.com/ Green Light's YouTube Channel, where you can catch all the latest GL action: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgxWFAA-wuB7osdiAJyLOcw Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I mean, those two guys were probably the funnest guys I've ever evaluated watching Florida State's defense. You know, it made me think, shit, they should have got into the playoffs, you know, watching with, you know, no matter who their quarterback was when you watch those two play, because how hard they play, how much they set the tone. And that's exactly what we wanted, knowing when we lost Aaron Donald, you know, we thought Jared Burs could be that, you know, Traymond Green type guy where, you know, he's talking shit, he's got an attitude. He's going to be right on that line where, you know, did he cross that line? and get locked into one on battles a couple times last year. Yeah, you know, and we had to kind of reel them back in. And we kind of knew that. We love that about it.

You know, where Fisk is going to be quieter, it's going to be more steady. But when the ball snapped, those guys are going balls in the wall. You know, we love their style of play. And they're great examples for our defense. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast presented by BetMGM. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code Greenlight. and you will get up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works.

Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code Greenlight. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. If that bet loses, you will receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets. Just make sure you use bonus code Greenlight when you sign up. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast. Thanks for tuning in to a special episode of Chris Squids. Chris Shula joins the show. He talks Rams D. Line, Braden Fis, Jared Verse, Byron Young, the young fellas he gets to work with every day. The talented and veteran-led defensive secondary.

What he learned from Wade Phillips and Aaron Donald, both of whom he spent time with in L.A. Talks about working with Sean McVeigh. And some NFL royalty stories from the Shula coaching treat. Cand Gatorade even makes a special appearance. So enjoy this wonderful episode. It's a good rip. And pay attention because midweek we've got a special. special, special episode. Coming out on Wednesday, you won't want to miss it. And then we'll be back at the end of the week with a player interview. Enjoy it.

We'll catch you then. All right, this is great. We got another D-coordinator on the show, and his group did a great job last year. Enjoyed watching that defensive line especially, but the whole group was awesome. Chris Shula from the Los Angeles Rams joins us now. Coach, how you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me, huh?

Oh, man, you know what? It's great having you on. one thing we definitely have in common besides like having worked for the Rams is you grew up in a football family I grew up in a football family I can imagine you got to go to a bunch of practices and games growing up what were the memories like of going to bangles games or whatever you went yeah it was the bangles it was I was going and my favorite memories was and for training camp they would go they did training camp at Wilmington college yeah and I would go stay in the dorms with my dad and I would have a room I had a room on like the floor with the players for some reason.

Like I would be on like the third floor. And I remember the staff room, he had like a little sweet in the dorms. And they would meet as a, you know, full staff or like an offensive staff, be like watching film. I remember like going in there at eight or nine at night to like get a big fridge. So it always grabbed snacks or whatever out of the fridge with the coaches meeting in there. And I remember like going to the walkthroughs in the morning. I was the ball boy. And, you know, in seven on seven.

And I was really good friends with a long snapper. And then I actually was the DC at John Carroll. And we played at Wilmington College. And I used to like, during the breaks when they would all go nap, I would just like walk around the campus, going to basketball gym. And I did that, you know, before the game. You kind of brought back all the memories. Well, you knew, you knew the land out there.

So that's great. Yeah, I mean, I can remember going to Oxnard when I was a kid when my dad was they had training camp there. And I don't know if you remember this at all, but like the snacks. You mentioned the snacks were great. My favorite memory was the canned gator. Raid. It was the coldest. No doubt. No what? We have it here. You have can Gatorade in our cafeteria. I said that to the players all the time. I said that reminds me of me growing up when I would

go to the Bengal stuff. I swear to God. Dude, I swear to God, I swear to God, I used to go to Dad's practices and people are always like, what do you remember? Do you remember like Bo Jackson? Do you remember like, you know, yada yada? I'm like, no, I remember the damn lemon lime. Yeah, no doubt. The fridge in an aluminum can. You got to let me know where y'all get those because we need to get something you got to ask reggie i have no clue or sebastian or nutritionist no clue i just see them in there reminds me on it but yeah it tastes way better out of the can i mean you were a player um actually was reading your bio you were a hell of a player man but like was this always football was going to be what it was or do you do you feel like you were given

the room to decide what you wanted to do like for me growing up it was like hey do whatever you want to do but if you do this is what's going to be like and you got to work your ass off like what was the what was the roadmap for you like Yeah, it was always what I wanted to do. And I was always focused, Chris, on just being the best player I could be. I think pretty early on in college or probably even in high school, I knew I wasn't going to be playing in the NFL or anything. But I still wanted to play as long as I could.

And I was completely focused on that. And then I actually went to University of Oklahoma, got my master's in athletic administration to be like an athletic director. So the AD at Oklahoma went to my high school, so we got connected, and he had me go out and do this program. And I knew the first game day, I was walking around in a suit, you know, up in the suite level, meeting with the donors and stuff. I'm like, this is not me. So I finished the program, and then I was GA and at Ball State by the next summer. Oh, that's awesome, man. I mean, just probably so many cool stories from growing up and everything.

But, like, the one I wanted to ask you about was the guy I wanted to ask you about was a guy I've gotten know pretty well. Jimmy Johnson. I know you were too young probably when your dad was working for Jimmy, but does he tell stories about what a hard ass he was? He did. He has told me a few. He's told me a few. I know there was one time, by the way, Jimmy Johnson, legend. I read his book. I love him. I mean, great, unbelievable coach. But there was one time he had said it was something where, you know, he gave him the game plan and whatever, Jimmy Johnson went through. And he said, cut out half of it. And I thought, well, how? And he said, well, you know, you run it one time to each side. That's double the play. So cut out half. You know, so I had to take half the plays out. Yeah. But I definitely hear some stories. And I've heard a lot of stories, obviously, not from my dad. I love Jimmy. About him. What a hard ass he was. How much does it help you? Like having you played, obviously. And, you know, you're a young coach. I mean, there's a lot of young de-coordinators now. I don't even think you're the youngest one. You got Zach Orr and Rallis and all these guys that are like in McVe's young. But I feel like you've got a lot of experience. like going through your bio reading the different positions you've coached,

different experiences that you've had on staff, just the Rams alone. Take me through the different positions that you've made contact with along the way and like maybe what it taught you preparing you to be the person responsible for all 11. Yeah, no doubt. Now, as a player, I was a linebacker. So that's always kind of been my home base and kind of, you know, where you feel most comfortable at. but I've just been lucky to coach at every single level where you kind of figure out the problems kind of throughout.

I think it just has naturally happened throughout my coaching career. It's kind of one of those things where you just kind of get lucky and you kind of have the ability to move around. And my first year in the NFL, I was the QC with the Chargers. And, you know, every position coach had an assistant position coach. And the defense line was the only one that didn't. And I had never been in a D-line room, never done anything with pass. rush, nothing knew nothing about it. And I was able to just kind of go be a fly on the wall in that room, you know, help out in Indy drills. And then, you know, we hired Giff Smith as our D-Line coach,

who's our D-Lion coach now and one of our, you know, obviously one of my closest friends, closest mentors in coaching. And, you know, that kind of started it. And then the ability when you come back to, now you come up to L.A. with Sean, you know, you're working in assistant linebackers under Joe Barry. And he gives you a lot of autonomy to kind of run your own drills, do stuff. and then you kind of break off. You have outside backers, which is essentially like, you know, essentially like coaching and edge player,

like a D-Lyman. Then we get a Rahim Morrison and you move to inside backers, you know, so you start to kind of feel that level and you're like, okay, I'm at home. This is my comfort level. Here we go. Then the next thing you know,

the next year you move back to DBs and you got Jalen Ramsey in the room. You've got some veteran guys in there where you've got to be on your stuff. And it's always fun. Every single position is just fun to learn and really to work through the problems and understanding what those coaches go through, you know, and the hardest things for those guys, you know, solving the problems with the players.

Was there anything eye-opening for you coaching the secondary? Because I can, you know, it's so funny, I played a million snaps of football, but I never seen it through a linebacker's eyes. I've never stood five feet back there and, you know, and played the ball or blocks the way the backers did and probably vice versa for a backer, seeing it from the vantage point of a safety or something like that. What do you think the biggest eye-opening experience was when it came to coaching the secondary? How fluid you have to be?

Like those guys are the ones that like when the ball goes up in the air and, you know, and it's on Sports Center, those guys are the ones that are giving up, you know, that people see giving up touchdowns and things like that. And there is a lot of problems to work through in the back end. But in the benefit that you have is you have space and time and you have the ability to communicate where it's interesting is there's a lot of plays you know whether you're a bound draft guys or you're you know just reviewing film there's a lot of plays where you know it doesn't really matter who's out there in the back and it doesn't you know it doesn't get you know it's a

run play and it doesn't get through the D-line but those plays that you know where they're attacking down the field and they're attacking your core coverages and you're isolated down the field it's it's a different feeling back there and then you know kind of vice versa from the D-line perspective is you can be judged on every single play you You know, it's a one-on-one pass rush or it's you're taking on a certain run block and it's man-on-man every single play. And so that's kind of the different feel between the positions. Do you, do you like, you had a young defensive line. I can't wait to dig in on that group because I enjoy watching them so much and gifted such a great job.

But do you feel like, or is it kind of your MO to say, hey, we want you guys you guys penetrating and resetting the line of scrimmage and the guys behind you will make you right? Or are you more, hey, we got to play this by the book. We have to have leverage and we have to show color in the right gap. Or is it a mixture of the two? And how do you teach a young player when to take those chances? Yeah, I think it's a combination of both. So, like, we want to get off the ball and we want to reset the line of scrimmage. But at the same time, you don't just want to be running up the field completely aimlessly

and creating vertical seams within the defense. You know, so for us, you know, I always talk about it to the whole defense is bad run is when everybody plays one gap. So it's like you want to get off the ball. And you know your primary gap. Like the ball is not getting through my gap. But we also talk about playing a gap and a half. If everybody plays one gap, that's exactly what the offense wants.

And the ball is going to get untouched to a DB. And that's not what we want. We want it muddy. We want it, you know, we want it like a, like I like to show pictures of like a, like the offense wants like a freeway. And you're just kind of on cruise control driving. And it's just easy. Or we want like LA traffic when I drive, when I used to drive to Encino at five o'clock. night and it's just jam-packed and everything's in there muddy and and you know so the answer is

you know it's you understand your leverage of how you take on a block and that's how I coached linebackers too it's like yeah you have a gap you have a primary gap be responsible for but I also understand when a block comes to me I have to keep a certain leverage on the ball all the time and if I'm not sure I know what shoulder and what I where my eyes are when I hit this block as somebody who's been a pass rush coordinator and I guess I don't even know what the what pass rush coordinator does honestly you guys probably told me what the fuck to do back in the day I don't even know it's the

title they kind of threw I think they had to take in order to get Aubrey back to get you know we were making him pass you know past you know past game coordinator and it was like all right what the hell do we do with Shula I was like yeah but now you're a D coordinator you are coordinating the pass rush you're coordinating everything so my question was

and I played on defensive lines where like I played for Mike Waffle in same to awesome absolute psychopath like all d-line coaches he's uh he's like a he's like a daycare operator as well because if you've been in a d-line room you know what that's about no like when it comes the game day you you want to let us pin our ears back and rush but there are going to be some times where you're calling games and stunts and you know there's probably situations a game where these are preset and there's probably situations where it's like guys guys go get it and I trust you to call games on the fly and play off each other.

When you have a young group like that, does it help that Jared and, you know, Braden played together in college and just have a feel for each other? Or does it help that they're all young? And did you give them that freedom? Or are you more like, hey, by the book, this is when we're going to call this game? No, it definitely helps that they play together. And really seeing that unit grow when you add, you know,

obviously verse and Fisk, and then you had Kobe and B.Y. And then even, you know, Hoyt, who did an awesome job for us last year. You know, everybody, you know, everybody runs a T.E. stunt. Everybody runs an E.T. stunt. And I think the way Byron Young is going to do it is going to be a lot different than the way Jared Burs is going to do it. The way Fisk is going to penetrate on a certain game is going to be different than, you know, for instance, Bobby Brown last year or somebody else that doesn't necessarily have the great get-off. So guys understanding, you know, who you're working with is always key.

And then we try to sell it on them as like, is we want to set up, you know, matchups and get guys isolated one-on-one. We want to get guys isolated where it could be two on two or three-on-three. You know, you want to get guys on isolations and, you know, put their linemen on islands and have our guys go hunting. And then how many times can you give? Because it's just the fine line, kind of similar to what you were saying in the run game, where you want to give verse, you want to.

want to give your best rushers that freedom to go get the QB and you don't want to have to rip their ass for being past the QB or anything where you give them two-way goes and understanding when they can take those opportunities. And I think when you sell them, you know, hey, these are your ops and you kind of dialed in, you know, they understand when they do have to play discipline. And all right, maybe here I have to protect high and low and not let the quarterback out of the pocket. And now they're probably, you, I mean, like, it was so funny because I remember when AD retired and I couldn't believe he retired. Could you believe he was, he was done? when he was done or I don't know as a sidebar because I asked Sean this and he was like yeah he told me

I'm full and I believed him and all that but like he was just so good right up to the end and I think you could play another nine he he definitely could and he just doesn't want to I think for him he just never wanted to you for lack of a better term cheat the system where he didn't he wasn't going to be a guy that didn't go to every single OTA didn't put every single thing he had in even though he probably could show up, you know, for training camp a few weeks and still be a really good role player, good dominant player for us, you know. He was the guy, he was either going to be all in or not. But yeah, when I, when I took the job, I was pretty well aware that. Well, everybody made a big thing about it and rightfully so, but I kind of wonder how much of an

adjustment it was for the other guys. Like now all of a sudden, hey, you're not going to be getting singles all the time. The slide's not going to be as predictable. You know, and when you got young guys now that are making names for themselves, you're going to be getting some chip. You know, like, so it's kind of a, it feels like you're never, it's never settled. It's always changing year to year. Who's going to get the slide?

Who's going to get the attention? And like in a young player's development, I'm sure you guys are going to get a lot of attention next year. Right. Like, it's not a secret anymore. Gerrvers is not a secret. Fiske's not a secret. You know, I think Turner's awesome and young. but like how do you how do you prepare them for all the attention they're going to get next year and like

specifically the edges getting chip help all the time sure it happened late in the season a good bit how do you get them and maybe it's the same question as how do you coordinate your games but how do you get them out of those chip looks and prepare guys to get that attention no doubt like and talking about Aaron Donald I think we you know and I think he's the best defensive player of all time and we probably even underestimated um just how different it was without him. I mean, we were, whatever it was, seven years, you know, with him, and just like you're saying, you know exactly where the turn's going every time. And guess what? If they're not turning to him, we know he's going to wrap the game. And we're just going

to put him away from where we think they're turning it. And that was it. It was as simple as that. You can line them up and dictate the turn every single time to go into where you're really studying protections and trying to find out the rules and trying to find out exactly where it is. And then now to the point where we have some guys that, you know, have those expectations where, oh, shit, now they got to account for an edge guy and see. And I think that's the point is, you know, when you talk about dealing with chips, I think the number one thing for those guys is selling it diverse and the B.I and those guys, hey, when they're chipping, guess what that usually means? That usually means the quarterback's holding on to the ball longer. That usually means routes are going faster, you know, farther down the field. So there are ways to circumvent those guys, you know, and we do studies, and I think that's the biggest thing every week.

And I think that's the biggest thing from verse coming from Florida State or coming from college into the pro game is we're studying every week. What do those chip looks come from? You know, is it from always from a whyoff position? Is it always from a nub side tied in? And now you're anticipating the looks. And obviously you can get to certain things. If you're in a four-man rush, there's certain things that you can get to to kind of alleviate that. and if there's nothing that you can get to,

now how am I going to rush this ship in order to create space for the other guys in order for those guys to win because the quarterback is holding onto the ball a little bit longer. No question. But not having Aaron Donald, I mean, the whole playbook's open the whole game for those guys. You know, and you talk to like a Matt Lafleur, he's like, oh, shit, I had like my, you know, as soon as Aaron Donald went out of the game, I'm going to all these long developing play action.

Yeah, you take shots. Yeah, exactly. You guys used to know when he took a breather, here comes the shot. no doubt where we start out the season you know it wasn't like that obviously you kind of you're like oh my gosh this is a little bit different no question but i thought they did a great job and i just kind of you know i wonder if you could speak to from the outside looking at i think most people know what jared verse is about by the end of the year i mean just fantastic power motor plays with a nasty streak you could see that i mean and i think fisk is like i don't think

people gave him enough credit in general because maybe Jared overshadowed him because edge rushes get all the love but just a really smart player wise beyond his years runs games well like what is it about these two guys that actually makes them go from looking from the inside that people in the outside might not know they they love football yeah like what's so interesting about those two is they're actually very different personality-wise off the field now they're close and they're good friends and everything but they're going to get to the point where they can play the best they can but they're going to get there in different ways fisk is absolutely a football junkie like i you know who's the i i was in the weight room i you know i walked in there i had i had something to do with my kids so i came in early to just kind of get a workout in and he's in there at you know 545 a m you know he halfway through his workout and i'm like you know he's got the full day And so he is just nonstop football all the time.

You know, he's got a little thing where he's doing some rehab right now. But he's just kind of always here. Versus is always kind of kind of be all over the place. He wants to be in. You're going to hear him. You're going to hear him talking shit to the trainers, to the equipment guys. You're going to hear him when you walk out on the practice field. You know, just like you saw, I'm sure, before the Eagles game,

he just loves all that stuff. And that's the way he's going to go about it. But as soon as the whistle blows, I mean, those, two guys were probably the funnest guys I've ever evaluated watching Florida State's defense. You know, it made me think, shit, they should have got into the playoffs, you know, watching with, you know, no matter who their quarterback was when you watch those two play, because how hard they play, how much they set the tone. And that's exactly what we wanted, knowing when we lost Aaron Donald, you know,

we thought Jared Verst could be that, you know, Traymond Green type guy where, you know, he's talking shit, he's got an attitude. He's going to be right on that line where, you know, did he cross that line? and get locked into one on battles a couple times last year, yeah, you know, and we had to kind of reel them back in, and we kind of knew that. We love that about it. You know, where Fisk is going to be quieter, he's going to be more steady. But when the ball snap, those guys are going balls in the wall.

You know, we love their style of play, and they're great examples for our defense. Take me inside the pregame conversation with verse when he does decide, hey, I'm going to go to Link, and I'm going to poke the bear. Are you all looking at him like, hey, you got. it man or is it like a easy young fella yeah it's it's it's it's like you want to because you want that aggressiveness so it's like you want but you can't just lose your mind so like i think it happened in the first eagles game he he i think my lot of you know kind of got to it and he just wanted to go run him over you know and it turned into a one-on-one battle you know and it's it's that it's that

controlled aggression that you're always trying to you know preach to him but you don't want to lose it too so as you know you know better than me it's just that fine line and we want him talking shit we want him being himself you know but at the same time and and he's always doing stuff to try to help the you know it's all comes in good he wants to make a place to help the defense but at the same time playing within the scheme of the defense you know i think you know his position coach joe nigo does an unbelievable job of you know and he's very very smart so he understands um what defenses he can take a chance in when his playoffs are and you know once he started learning that you know i think that calmed out he started playing within the scheme of the defense and and he's just

been a stud yeah i kind of love having a guy like that because you walk into a situation like that maybe people are nervous coming into philly whatever it is um and having a guy that kind of throws the first stone so to speak it like it's like a burn the ship's moment for everybody no doubt it's like hey well now we got to go fight them you know and i think that can be really good and so I just love watching the edge that he brought to the defense and just all those guys. I mean, like going back to, I thought, which was probably the game where it was like, oh, man, these guys are going to be a problem for the next 10 years. Maybe the second Vikings game.

I mean, it was evident to me that these guys were real good, but I felt like the day I'm broken that second Vikings game in the playoffs. And I'm wondering going into a game like that, you know, when you smell blood in the week leading up to the game, you're like, it's going to be a good day. Was it a day like that? Or was it like after the first quarter, you realize they can't block us? And how sweet a feeling is that for a coordinator when they can't block your four? Yeah, I mean, the front controls, you know, really on both sides of the ball.

You know, if your front is humming and your front is rolling, you know, that controls everything. It makes everybody else play better. You know, I think one of the best things, Aubrey Pleasant, our DB's coach, you still always say, hey, who's our best corner? The best corner is Aaron Donald. You know, who's our best corner. Our best, you know, our best TV is Jared versus Fisk and when those guys are rolling. You know, and that, that week was interesting, obviously, because that was the week of the fires.

Yeah. So we were kind of all over getting displaced. And we had a great Friday practice. Right. It was on Saturday. But, you know what I mean? You know, whatever Friday in our heads on the same one at Arizona. And you felt a good bouncing the step.

I think the guys, you know, understood and the plan. And, you know, like, with our guys, they're really smart and they love to know why. And I think when you tell them the why behind why we're doing certain things and what we need to get to, and they understand they just go play balls at the wall. And they looked fresh and played hard. And, yeah, it was a fun night. That's so important to be able to give them the why. I mean, seriously, because as a player, we used to ask a ton of questions.

And sometimes it'd be like, hey, just do it. And we're not doing it, try to get out of it. We want to understand so we can do the job better. No doubt. You know what I'm saying? No doubt. And I think it's so important from a big picture perspective. Like that's why I love to meet with the unit, you know, and it's like, yeah, some things might not always apply. But like as long as it's like you're not wasting their time, you keep it short, it's like 10, 15 minutes.

And, you know, there's just more ownership in the plan. And I think, and I think that's where, you know, you kind of get full buy-in from that. And, you know, we've brought in guys that, everybody we have on our defense is smart, above the line smart. Like, you can talk to them almost like you talk to a coach. were, you know, and guys like that want to know why. They don't want to just be told what to do and, hey, I'm going to go do that, you know. And that's what's fun is because then you get feedback and then, oh, shit, you know, you might have a good idea on a Thursday practice like, hey, why don't we do it like that?

And that's what it started getting to all the dialogue. It was like Mike Hoyt, I'd walk into my office and I'd have all these little drawings of games and stunts. It was Mike Hoyt would be in here kind of drawing all this stuff up. And, you know, he's one of my family. he's going to do an awesome job with Buffalo. Yeah. You know, they're going to love him.

He does a lot of good work all over the field. So it helps have a guy like that. And I just wonder, was it helpful to have veterans in the secondary? Like, was that intentional when you had a young group to bring in guys, like bring Darius Williams back? I thought Cam Crow was a tremendous value. Like bringing those guys in and knowing they're a little bit older, was there any intent to that knowing you have a younger front?

There definitely was. I think Les and Sean and the whole front office really did an unbelievable job of kind of like idealing like, all right, if we want to rebuild the front floor draft, you know, let's get some veteran guys that can play calm in the back end. And getting a Darius Williams back at Killow, you know, coming midseason with his experience, he's like our Zen master in that room where he's just a great communicator. He plays calm. He's a great mentor to a lot of those guys. to Kobe Durant, you know, you just see him taking steps and steps and making progress. And Quentin Lake's always been a guy that, you know, he was really his first year as a true full-time starter, but he feels like a vet. And having him and Cam Crowell back there. And Cam Crull's really a guy like I think of like verse where he's more of like a silent assassin where you talk about play style, you talk about hitting blocks, you talk about tackling the ball. He's everything you

want in the back end. So it was a very, you know, it was nice, have a very, in a veteran group back there where, you know, we want to be a defense where you play multiple things and, you know, but you can only do what you guys can execute. And right, those guys give us the ability to kind of do what we need to do, what we think is best to stop the opposing offense. No question. You talk about the games where it looked easy for you guys. And then, you know, one of the most fun games to watch last year was probably y'all playing the bills. And I know for a de-coordinator, it's not as fun. And, you know, Josh and those guys did, did, that to a lot of people this year because they were so damn explosive.

What do you do when you walk out of a game like that and, you know, you get a win, but you're like, hey, guys, I got to coach you like, we lost this game. No doubt. Well, we were playing the Niners on the short week the next week. So I was like, I'm moving on. We're not even watching the film. Burn the tapes. Did you say burn the tapes?

Yeah. I learned from Wade Phillips, and he was the best at this, where we played, it was our, I want to say it was our third game of the season, our first year in 2017. And we were one and one. We were playing the Niners. And the third game of the year was a Thursday night game. We ended up beating them 42-39. And it was just one of those crazy back-and-forth games, just a shootout. And we walk in the locker room, we kind of sit down.

And I'm just like, man. And Wade Phillips walks and he goes, well, we kicked their ass. You know, he's all happy about the game. He's literally happy. You wouldn't know if we shut him out 10-0 or if we won 42-39. And he was the same way. We had that shootout versus the Chiefs that led you. He was 54-51.

54-51. And then the light-way was the same. That got us, I think, 10-1 or 11-in-1 or something on the season. And he came in. He's like, that's 10. I remember you would never know how much you won it. And as you know, it is so hard to win a game. It is so hard.

You put so much in. You only have guaranteed 17 of them a year to win one game. It's so hard. So, you know, you could find it. And even when you win, just like you said, you're always going to find a lot of things wrong and coach them hard and all things like that. But to enjoy the experience in the locker room with the coaches, with the guys, you know, with your family, wherever's in town, you know, that evening. I think that's why you do it. And to say, you know, I didn't feel a little weird after that game, you know,

given, you know, 44, 42, you know, I can't say like, you know, it's a first year quarter air in the back of my head. But I definitely want to get, you know, winning's the number one thing. Totally. You know, we did what we had to do to win that game. No question. I like the coach that just told us the truth no matter we won or lost. Didn't have to, you know, like, and so there's always going to be things to work on.

But it is nice when you got a short week after a game like that because you could just kind of like, hey, we have to move on. We'll come back to this later. But the Super Bowls, man, 2018, 2021. Obviously, you playing a low-scoring one against the Patriots, and then you guys get your ring in 21. The first question I wanted to ask was, timeout, 43 seconds to go.

I think Piron's stuff for no game. Everybody knows what happens next. What's going on on the sideline before that play? It was, I mean, I just remember Sean being on our side of the headset saying, Aaron Donald's going to make a play. Erndonnell's going to make a play. But I was coaching, you know, we had Ernest Jones was a rookie linebacker. And I think Taylor Rap was playing the dime money, which was our, you know, other

linebacker in that position. And we called, you know, just a man free defense. And all I was making sure every single play was Ernest Jones, you know, was out there in a line in the right spot. Yeah. So I'm just making, I'm like, okay, he's got the back. here he's got the back here okay he knows he's got him you know he's showing and so that's all you know like as a position coach as you as you could imagine you that's kind of where my head was where you're

just so locked in on you know that play and that execution and um you know they had hit a big play the first because raw's pulled raw wanted to pressure them and and hey let's go let's not let burrow hold the ball will he hits chase in the you know on a hitch route and he takes it 30 yards of it's like okay that That plans out right now, you know. And then next thing you know, it's third and one, we get to stop. And, yeah, the whole thing was like, all right, or my guys out there, do they got the call, are they executing it the right way? And here we go.

This first Super Bowl feels like a relief. And I'm sure that moment felt like a relief where you're like, oh, he was in the right place. He had the back. No, yeah. So. No, there was a play earlier in the game where he had called, Rahim had kind of ripped out of pressure that, like, like, we hadn't really cold in the last couple of days. It was kind of in the game plan, but it wasn't like in the last few of the end of the win.

And I'm like, I know Ernest is going to be kind of like he's, and he looks to the sideline. I kind of give him one of the like, yeah, you're going, you know. Y'all like, he kind of nods. I'm like, all right, we're good. And he gets a sack, you know, and I'm like, this is unbelievable. That's awesome. Like, this is the Super Bowl and this is what's happening. So what you learn?

Like, would you learn? Like, y'all are going to get back, right? Like, that's the plan, you know, at some point. and whenever that is, if it's this year, if it's, you know, five years down the line, like your group is not going to have played in that game largely. I mean, it's like a different team, right, with turnover the way the NFL is. What do you tell them about the experience, like soup to nuts of being in the Super Bowl and like the keys independent of an opponent?

Like, what is that period about and what are the keys? Be ready to stand there forever before that freaking, from when you come out to when the damn kickoff finally happened. It feels like we're there for about 45 minutes. And really, it's the longest two weeks just in that whole preparation just to get to the game. Because you do a week of your normal routine, you know, normal whatever would be a Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then you kind of do it again or you kind of revisit everything. But, you know, I think it's just, it's so hard to get there. And every team is just so different.

And, you know, I don't think with those two teams, there was anything. necessarily special. It's just more of like you do the work, you put in the work, and, you know, you start coming together as a team and clicking at the right time and good things are going to happen. And, you know, it's not always who's the best team. It's who's playing the best at that time. And, you know, and, you know, we were a lot different team in September last year than

we were. And obviously, by the time January hit, and that's really the goal was kind of be playing your best football at the end. Yeah, that's one of Belichick's favorite sayings. It's not who you play, it's when you play them. No doubt. You know, that's you playing your best ball last year, late. You played Philly again.

The question I was going to ask you about the Philly game is, first off, had to be fun playing the snow and all that, especially for Team Out West and everything. But I thought y'all hung so tough. Sequan is such a challenge. And this certainly isn't a question pointed at just y'all because he did it to a lot of people like Josh. But like the explosives, right?

Like you're coming to that second game. You're like, we got to stop the explosives, right? Like because in the first one, he ripped off a few big ones. And one of them in like four minute mode, which I guess is the point of what I'm asking is like, it seems simple. Hey, throw the kitchen sink at him. Load the box. But he's so unique in that he can turn a loaded box into an 80 yard touchdown. So, you know, what makes him so challenging?

Is it just that breakaway speed? He is, when he gets any speed, gets through the line with any space. He's the hardest guy to get down that since I've been in the league. I know that. And that's the biggest thing is he can make, you know, a routine that would be a 12-yard run for a lot of guys. He turns into 60 and 70. And what's so hard is, and actually, you know, Bobby Wagner actually said because they played him the next week, you know, you do a good job on him for the most part, you know, for a lot of the game. And, you know, and they catch you.

And, you know, they have the best old line in the week, too. and they have for a while. And they're big, and they do an awesome job. Jeff Stout, the offense line coach does an awesome job. And then they use Jalen Hurts and a hidden explosive on us as well. They use him in the wrong game as a threat, you know, and where he can kind of manage it and not put himself in harm's way. And it's a huge challenge because, you know, the first game,

you know, you don't want to get where you're just so static. and you're just everything's keyed on Sequin because then Jalen Hurts is just going to stand back there for, you know, if you can't get a rush on him, he'll stand back there. He's so patient, he's so calm. Those tackles are so good. He'll stand back there forever and then start scrambling around. They have awesome skill guys. And then, like you said, then you want to get in some rush front or you want to get into some different things. And now they just hand off to Sequin and he can just take it to the house. So it's always the day. And that's the fun part about the NFL is, is, is, the challenging aspect of like, all right, we thought, you know, you think you have a good plan. And obviously, we're going to go back to the drawing board. We get to go there again this year, so that'll be a fun one. Well, I mean, I know y'all don't like hearing it, but coming away from that game, you're like, man, we are, look at what that team did to Kansas City. Yeah, we went into Philly. And if Jalen Carter doesn't, I mean, he ran a coffee house, which was like, that dude's incredible, by the way.

But, like, y'all are so damn close. and I feel like it speaks to the toughness of y'all's teams because as you put it like, we weren't the same team in September as we were in December and every year it feels like y'all coach these guys up to be in a position to be relevant, whether it was the Detroit playoff game a couple years ago, which I thought was the most physical football game I've seen.

That was a first game. Had a bloodbath or what? Bloodbath. Even our first game of the year when we played them on the Sunday night. When you play Detroit, you know, they're a physical, physical tough group, man. But you all have that same physical, physicality now. So I was just

saying, I see you, coach. I see what you doing there and it's fun to watch. Here's the gotcha question. Reggie Scott, one of the best trainers in the league. He was my athletic trainer and now he's still there in L.A. The best. He asked me to ask you, are you

the rag bandit? And can you explain that? That is classic. That's the, yeah, there's somebody is. I don't know who it is. It's definitely not me. I don't use a rag at the shower, but somebody some one of the coaches or staff members is leaving a dirty rosscloth in the showers you know so me and rheim i actually we started this uh when rheim was here a couple

years ago um we were like we're like rheim kept being like who the hell is leaving this dirty washcloth and then rheim had a stake out in the locker room we were finding out when guys shower we had a whole thing about it we thought we found him and uh he's back and we don't know who it is so is their clubhouse favorite an odds-on favorite? It's definitely we thought it was going to be. We thought it was Ron Gold or running backs coach is the clubhouse favorite. That was the one we thought last year.

And, you know, he says he's innocent. He says he's learned. So, you know, I don't know. I got to do it. I'm going to get a coaching staff roster. So I'm going to send Reggie my theories. I don't think it's you. I think you're exonerated.

Rahim Morris. This coaching tree is awesome, man. And maybe one day it's going to be you. as a head coach, and I think that would be awesome. But, like, Rahim, now Liam Cohen, you spent time with Liam. I just wanted to ask you what he's about and what, you know, fans in Duval can expect. No doubt. From Liam, William Cohen.

Liam's a stud, man. Liam has a great personality. He's going to be able to relate to all the players. He's a great coach. And I think you saw that with the swagger that the Bucks played with last year. And you saw like Baker kind of taking that next step. We didn't play them. but, you know, Jimmy Lakes here now, he said they were one of the best offenses that they played last year when he was in Atlanta last year.

And, you know, he just did an unbelievable job. But he's going to relate to everybody. He's not going to have an issue relating to any of the players. And he's going to get the most, I believe he's going to get the most out of that offense and get the most out of Trevor Lawrence. So, you know, I think he's ready. He's going to do an awesome job. He'll do his own way. You know, he's just like Sean would be or anybody else would be.

He's going to use elements of what Sean. would do and put it in his own way and put his own spin on it just like he did in Tampa and just like he did with some great teams when he was the OC at Kentucky. So he's got a great personality can relate to all the guys. And that's the biggest thing I would take away from him. I thought they were a lot of fun to watch. I think he's going to be a hell of a coach. And then last one, I got to leave you with this because you, as a former player, as a long-time defensive coach and now coordinator, you got to watch a lot of the best players in the league on end zone tape, you know, when we're watching common opponents and that sort of thing.

getting ready for for the game like who's who's probably your your most favorite guy to watch defensively in the league defense um t j wott bios garrett are or are definitely i would say as far as you say edge guys would be you know two of the top guys zach bonn was a fun guy last year at inside backer i've always liked watching roquan i mean fred warner is probably he's been the standard in the league and then you know it's like you hate to show niner's guys but he's the best you know as far as cross-body punch out and all that type of stuff. And some of the things he does as a hook zone defender is just absolutely incredible. So, you know, he's a guy in our division.

Obviously, we see him a ton. But he's, you know, those are three guys, I would say that are doing it at a top, top level. Kyle Hamilton. Oh, Kyle. A guy that's been like just because they move him down to nickel some. And you're like, oh, my gosh. I really enjoyed the Chargers last year. I thought Derwin James has always been a guy.

guy and I thought last year I thought Jesse Minner did an unbelievable job with with um you know with those guys and then Khalil may yeah Kalil Mack is still a freaking dude too how does he do it you were with him we know you weren't with him because that was I wasn't where you gift was with him so gift knows him oh yeah I mean it's just the main strength and this is what you got to be excited about with Jared verse strength age as well yeah in with russers and I think that's like Khalil Max the poster child for that like he's always going to be strong he's always going to be strong he plays with great he plays with such like a body lean like and he's one of those guys where like he he's so strong and so powerful and he's one of those guys he doesn't even look like he's really trying you know but he is he's going 100% you know

and he's just so calm and his movements and everything and yeah he he he's had an incredible career and you know he's like erin donald he's not even close to me he could play for however many more years he'd wanted to you know yeah i think he's got that ankle flexion coach i think i think that's what it is because i agree with you he's always got that lean it's hard to put your finger on it but he's always under control he's always got good pad level and then the other guys you mentioned hamilton stride is like nobody's in the league the way he covers ground and fred i know it pains you to say but that would be my answer would be fred warner i've just enjoyed him watching him play so much so you talk about a guy that's like hey one gap he's got four of

him. Yeah, no doubt. And he's got the, you know, he could probably play Tampa 2 and play third. Oh, my gosh. His overlap as a, as a, you know, a hook player where he's supposed to be relating to three, but he's playing visual off the quarterback. I mean, he's about as good. But he also knows, like, route concepts. And, you know, when a number three goes out, how does that affect me? And how do I change my drop? And the amount of depth he gets on some of these, like, play action concepts and stuff. Yeah, he's incredible to watch. It's not fair. They've done an unbelievable job.

I'd like to run around being Fred Warner for a day. That'd feel pretty fucking cool. No doubt. That's always been my dream. I was a, you know, growing up, I was a Zach Thomas guy.

You know, he was playing at the Dolphins when I was in high school. So you can imagine like that's like my, like Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, but Zach Thomas was like my idol. And he used to come random. Like,

he loved football. So he would like come to a high school game. He came to like a couple of our games. Oh, I thought his Hall of Fame speech was great. I'm going to pull up. some of your tape. I think most people are looking at the, they're trying to find Sean McVeigh's

tape, but I think your tape's probably better, even though he's the Gatorade State player year. Oh, God, no. No, definitely. Definitely not. He was a way, way better player than me. I was strictly a linebacker. I was at St. Thomas. We don't go both ways, you know.

I was just a just a 4-3 linebacker, you know. That's good. Well, I can't wait to watch you guys play this year, man. Congrats on all the success. It's been a lot of fun. And, you know, us, we got an old D-Line group chat, Rams D-Line group chat, William Hayes, Robert Quinn, all those guys.

And it's probably 10-deep, and we're always talking about your defense. So keep it up, and thanks for coming on the show. That's awesome. Great meeting you, and I appreciate you having me off. Good to meet you, Coach.