Green Light with Chris Long - Rick Carlisle! NBA Finals, Luka Doncic = Best in the World & Bill Walton! Hello to Larry Csonka, Falcons Tampering, Sam Darnold & Baron Browning!

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

Back with our Friday Freakshows! NFL news to kick things off, we give a little love to Larry Csonka and the 1972 Dolphins, then talk the Falcons tampering punishment, Baron Browning's financial plan and Sam Darnold becoming QB1 in Minnesota. Then Chris and Macon get to chat with Rick Carlisle, fresh off the Pacers appearance in the Eastern Conference Finals. Rick goes in depth on not just the current landscape of the NBA but the nuance of the game and the intricacies of basketball strategy and coaching. Rick talks about his interactions with Dražen Petrović, Arvydas Sabonis and getting into a Grateful Dead concert via Bill Walton. Rick also discusses his opinion of Luka Doncic, Bronny James' draft outlook and Macon's golf game. Amazing, in-depth basketball interview with a little fun. Enjoy. (00:00) - Intro and Green Light's Recent Interviews (7:40) - Bussin' Beer Olympics is Headed to Nashville Which Means a River Trip for Chris (11:34) - Hello to Larry Csonka (18:12) - Tampering Fines for Atlanta (24:43) - Baron Browning Sells Percentages of his Future Earnings (31:24) - Sam Darnold is QB1 in Minnesota (42:58) - NBA Finals and Waylon's Announcing Prowess (52:06) - Rick Carlisle on the 2024 NBA Finals, the Indiana Pacer's Run, Luka's Dominance, Bill Walton Memories, Championship with the Celtics and NBA Strategy Want your Green Light Merch so you can look exactly like Chris and the fellas? Hit the website below and get kitted! https://stores.kotisdesign.com/yotehouse/products Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ Send any Talent Search submissions to: [e-mail] Include any video of your talents, takes and bits as well as a little bit about yourself. Love hearing from the Green Light fans. Also, check out our paddling partners at Appomattox River Company to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. https://paddleva.com/ Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light Tube YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgxWFAA-wuB7osdiAJyLOcw Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's your favorite pickup game, first memory of a player? The Luca Donchich one was the one that was the most eye-opening to me. Now, we drafted him, and the only guy that knew how good he was, really knew how good he was, was Donnie Nelson, who was our general manager. On films, Luca, you know, you just couldn't tell. He was a 6-7, 6-8 guy that handled the ball a lot, but didn't really look like a point guard. And at times on his team, there were other guys that were handling the ball.

And so, you know, and the other thing is, as you watch him and you watch him now, he doesn't look fast, but he gets by people. And the thing that you learn about him very quickly, particularly we have a chance to work with him, coach him, is that he is super big, super strong, unbelievably quick and extremely fast. Now, it doesn't look like he plays fast, but he can turn on the burners and he is an amazing athlete. And he can play above the rim, too. He doesn't do it very much because he's mastered the game, you know, on the ground. I think right now, you look at the run he's been on during the playoffs leading to the finals, what he's done in the first two games of the finals. I mean, if this guy isn't the best player in the world, you know, I don't know who is.

I mean, he is that amazing. Welcome to the Green Light Podcast. Calvote. Thanks for tuning in today, a wonderful episode. We've got a football filled open, followed by Indiana Pacers head coach Rick Carlisle. Fresh off the Eastern Conference Finals playoff run, Rick joins Chris Macon. They talk a bunch of NBA topics. They have Bill Walton, Rick's time with the Celtics, his illustrious NCAA career, and everything coaching Rick's opinion on Luca, why he thinks he's the best player in the world, how the 2011 Mavericks took down the heat in that finals matchup, and some of the most in-depth basketball you'll find

anywhere. To kick things off, though, we talk a couple NFL topics. We cover Larry Zonka and his very passionate speech defending the NFL's only undefeated team, the Dolphins. We also covered the Falcons and Eagles tampering decision that came down. Sam Darnel being named QB1 in Minnesota, Baron Brownie's decision to sell interest in his future earnings, and we talk a little bit about the NBA finals. The Celtics, kind of have this one all wrapped up, do they? Enjoy all of it. Make sure to check out these videos on YouTube. We've got a great run here. We have that surprise episode with Chris Weber and a couple others. And we'll have a great episode with a couple of football guys for you on Tuesday. Chris is going to tell you about it a minute. Enjoy.

Housekeeping. Housekeeping. All right, little housekeeping here. We've got Rick Carlisle on today, who's Macon's best friend. Yeah. Can you really that? Yeah. Dude, you know how you vibe so well with Chris Weber. That's you and Rick Carlisle. That's Rick and me. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, man. Dude, Chris Weber was incredible. Yeah. Awesome interview. Seriously. You like the middle. Sincerely. The middle happened to be the best part, but I actually listened this time. Fantastic interview. So here's the deal. If you're listening, it is Friday morning. That Chris Weber video on YouTube has been up a while. Some people comment on our YouTube and say, what is this fucking shadow band channel? Like we should have more views. So help us out.

Chris Weber is out there sitting there reacting to the loss of Jerry West, talking about Michael Jordan, talking about LeBron. He was there. This is one of my favorite things to ask him about was the LeBron 25 points in a row game in game six. It was 2007 or eight. Seven. And he was on that Detroit team. Some people forget. Kind of did a homecoming veteran deal with the Pistons and was there front row seat in the huddle.

as these guys are real time reacting to the next best thing in basketball, ripping off 25 points on a really veteran team, like the toughest team in the NBA. Yeah. And I predict you and Chris Weber will be friends. Dude, I hope so. I really, there's some athletes you meet. You're like, yeah, if we play together, we'd be boys.

He texted me back and was like, I can't wait to hit him up and play Mad. Yeah. So I'm going to play Mad against Chris Weber. That's pretty cool. This job has taken me some cool places. And I liked Chris before I interviewed him, but he's one of those people that like once you interview him,

you're like, oh my God, I get it. And then texting people like, yo, people in the NBA, hey, I met Chris Weber. He was amazing. And there was no like, no, he's actually an asshole. Everybody loves Chris Weber. My old producer from inside the NFL who worked on the TNT show. He's like, Chris is the best.

So check that interview out. It was a lot of fun. It was great. And Rick Carlisle, I think we should note, sneaky all-time basketball career period. He goes to Maine to play college ball, then transfers to Virginia. Right.

Gets to a final four after Ralph Samson has left. Right. Goes to the Celtics. He's on the 86 title team. And then has this phenomenal coaching career, now over a thousand wins with a title in 2011 in Dallas and his teams that just consistently overperform. Champ is a coach, champ is a player.

was part of those Celtics teams in the mid-80s. And Final Four is a college player. I don't know how many. Yeah, I don't know if there's another one. We'll get research on that. Yeah, we'll get research on it. But Rick is one of those old school coaches. Yeah.

You know, you can tell talking to him. Yeah. He's tough. And his answers are great. The great answers. So enjoy this interview. I know it's a lot of basketball for some of you NFL heads.

We're gonna talk about the NFL here in the open. And also, just a little heads up what's coming down the pipe here. We have a surplus of great guess. Monday we've got Sean McVeigh. This is one of my favorite interviews I've done all year. Getting a chance to talk to Sean McVeigh is like talking to a football machine. Like for 30 minutes, the producers on this show when when he said his goodbyes and hopped off Zoom, they were like, I get it. Like I totally get it now. Like I don't know if you guys didn't get it before.

I did not get it before. I didn't maybe have the strongest, highest opinion of Sean McVeigh. Oh. But that McVeigh hater. Their opinion has changed. Is it his pecks? Probably the hair. Or the... The guy's huge.

He's not huge, but he's huge. Yeah. But he's a great dude. Ever since I left the Rams, every time I've run into him, he's just been so cool. And now we've got a bunch of the same friends because some of those people

on those teams are still there. You know, Aaron's gone, but the trainers are still there. Some of the staff members. And so I feel like we know all the same people is a lot of fun talking to Sean McVeigh. And we've got to, Justin Reed. So we're going to double

stack the football guests on Monday. So coming out of the weekend, give it a listen, give it a watch. And if you got spare 40 minutes, check out Chris Weber. For sure. On YouTube.com. And one note, Pat Riley made a final four did the championship as a player

with the Lakers. And many championships of the Lakers. Okay. That's so interesting. Pat and Rick. Okay. Yeah, anyways, a little bit of housekeeping on the busing with the boys thing. Hey, from my lips to God's ears. Beer Olympics.

Has moved. It's moved to Nashville. So much better for your boys, so much better for the staff here that I was going to drag across the country to Vegas for like 36 hours. I am out on Vegas. I just am.

Yay, welcome. Yeah, I'm officially out on Vegas. Yeah. You'll understand when you're 39 and you have three kids and even vacation to yourself doesn't feel like a vacation because you're just accruing debt in your household and at the slot machine or in the sports book. And you don't go outside when you do, there's no trees and it's too hot.

Like Vegas is not where it's at. And I'm really happy that the events in Nashville. I don't spend enough time in Nashville. We're going to parlay this into an opportunity here at the Greenlight Studios. Myself, Cowboy Reed, possibly Matt, possibly Nate. I mean, Macon already said no. Well, we're going to hop in the RV on. Sunday and we're going to stop in Southwest Virginia. We're going to do a float in Southwest

Virginia. I'm a float in Tennessee. I'm a no. So anybody who lives in Southwest Virginia, give us a really nice stretch of river that I can get my white water kayak in the in the in the river and also something that would accommodate somebody like Matt who has a habit of hugging rocks at times. Busting his face open. Busting his face open on rocks. We want to have fun like southwest West Virginia, I'd say would be a good beer drinking kind of float. So if there's a stretch of the new that anybody listening knows that doesn't creep up past class three, low class three, that'd be great. I don't want any fatalities.

And then the next day. Serious question? Yeah. If you do pass away in one of these rivers, which is inevitable, does the NFL keep paying your family pension money? Is that how it works? No, but it would be nice if the Eagles would put a little kayak patch on their jersey. Oh, were you there long enough?

No, maybe the Rams. Yeah, just NFL league-wide kayak patch. Who the fuck is Joel? Anyways, excited about parking that RV in the driveway and spend it a night with the guys at busing. Whose driveway? Whills? Whoever's driveway owns the house? I think they're renting this mansion in Nashville.

So I'll be parked in the driveway. with the crew and it'll be like uncle wait y'all are all gonna sleep cousin eddie cousin eddie i'm like cousin eddie at the busing with the boys you can bring your own campfire yeah oh yeah i'm gonna bring a solo stove i'm gonna have a whole set up are you guys all gonna sleep in the same vehicle yeah i think so we need two vehicles if we're gonna float though right we probably do but i am gonna look at like a no that's why our listeners on the back of my that's why we get our listeners they'll put us in they'll give us a boat No, no, I'll ride. No, I know.

How about a home? What he's talking about, you need a vehicle for the put-in-take-out. But you also need a vehicle to haul your boats. We'll get a roof rack. We'll sit on top with the boats during the drive. If I were hosting you- We'll put a patch. If I were hosting you all-gain dial patch.

And you all were not known to me, Cowboy Reed would easily be the best houseguess. Yeah. You'd be two, Chris. And Kingston, I think you'd be three. Oh, Nate would be a distant four. No bad house guests. Okay, except for Nate.

Well. Yeah, you just don't know. Yeah, no, all in the good category. Has there stayed in your house? No, I'm saying if... I've cohabitated with Nate for weeks on end. If you guys were not known to me. Yeah, if you weren't known.

I've cohabited it with Macon and doesn't seem to like it. What, uh... When have we... I just to stay at your house. Oh, that's true. Yeah, you slept in the bathtub one night. All right. Do we have a hello?

Wasilla Alaska. I was really trying to hope to get that to Wicill, Alaska. You know, that's when you merge a couple words together, you know. Wasilla Alaska. Hello. Why? Because of Larry. Bristol Palin.

This is not where I was going. But Sarah Palin, anything Alaska, she just comes up. Okay, Larry Zonka lives there too. Can you roll that Larry Zonka audio? Great esteem. We took the goddamn thing. That's what happened. I'm tired of people telling me,

they named us in the shit we took it i don't have any emotional response no i'm obviously you're aware there have been some rancid and i have you number one are you in also i'm not surprised i'm sure i'm sure you felt you deserved me a fellow you're missing the whole point it's a team sport when you achieve perfection there is no single entity that leads to that perspective You don't have the leading rusher. You might not have the leading wide receiver. You might not have the leading tackler in the game. The fact of the matter is that you concentrate more on winning than individual performance.

So when you talk about great entities in the league, those are detrimental to the winning aspect because you become one-dimensional. So if you all work together and don't let your egos get in the way, which is easy when Shula has his foot up your fight, then and only then you may attain a crew receiver. So basically, I guess the question had something to do with them being slighted in some capacity. And some of these, one of these lists that listed the greatest teams of all time. Of course, the 72 dolphins who went 17 and 0, 14 and no in the regular season.

So the test was different back in the day. There were less questions. And the questions were a little easier, you could argue. But that was the game they were playing. And they won 14 straight in the regular season. They won three to win the Super Bowl. And they won it with a backup quarterback. I mean, not the Super Bowl, but much of the season,

Bob Gracie was out. There was a guy named Earl Morel, like the mushroom. They had a backfield that featured Mercury Morris and Larry Zonka, 2000-yard rushers. Obviously, Larry Zonka was a fullback. He was like a Peter Bill out there. For young fans that don't know Larry Zonka, this guy was part of the lexicon back in the day.

I mean, like, he was, football royalty, dude. This team was football royalty. And, you know, like, for a guy that ate glass for a living, he's 77, I think it looks fucking fantastic. He sounds like a philosopher and he looks like an aging movie star.

And for all the, you guys are all going to die early and you're going to have, you know, all these terrible things happen to you if you played football for a long time. Well, this guy had 10 plus broken noses, spent multiple days in the hospital with concussions. How do you have 10 noses?

The same nose broke it 10 plus times, permanently deformed. I can't tell him the video. And at 77 years old, all that having been said, he still got the warrior spirit intact because the way he, the way he defended that team,

I mean, I got goosebumps. You know, I don't care about the dolphins. Larry Zonka is just a part of football history to me, but watching him talk about his team made me think, like, will I defend teams I was on or players I played with at 77 with the same passion that Larry Zonka was defending his 72 dolphins team. Monty Clark, his coach, said this, and he was the running backs coach.

When Larry Zonka goes on Safari, the lions roll up their windows. Okay, multiple stints in the hospital, as I mentioned, for concussions, 10 plus times breaking the same nose. And just a trail of destruction in his dolphin, lake. That's what this guy was all about. He did all this under the unrelenting heat of the Miami sun. And when he retired, he escaped to Alaska. He retreated to the south central region of Alaska. It's called Wasilla. And that's where the hello comes from. He was also on American Gladiator. He's done iditarods. He's got outdoor programming that he runs out of Alaska. He just seems like

a fucking movie character to me. And I love seeing him pop up. Haven't heard the guy talk. in my entire adult life. You know, I wasn't like watching American Gladiator back in the day with an acute awareness of who Larry's uncle was and watching him talk about his team. Got me fired up and got me wondering if I can go visit him in Wasilla, Alaska for a sit down at a fire pit. I'd love to do like a two-hour interview with Larry Zonka. Do it this summer.

Yeah. When you go west. The craziest thing he ever did was wear the number 39. So wild. Like supposedly when they picked him up. they had to teach him how to run with the ball. We were watching highlights. The guy run upright.

Pretty erect. And yet could not be brought down. Could not be brought down, dude. Guys were bouncing off him. I mean, for all the punishment that he took, I wonder how much he doled out. Like, if you really had a list of, like, all the bones that were broken by Larry Zonka's forearm, I think the list would be long.

And I loved watching him make a little cameo on Twitter. Maybe we could comp him to another 39, Stephen Jack. Jackson. Yeah. It's a tough guy. Honestly, Stephen Jackson is a pretty good comp for Larry Zonka. Yeah. The running style. The erect nature of the running style. The punishing blows. I mean, when Stephen Jackson was in his prime, it was like he was the precursor to Derek Henry. And, you know, like, I saw this on NFL Reddit today. They were like, what's the take that you've had to walk back? And, you know, I can remember vehemently. campaigning for people to think of Stephen Jackson as at least Derek Henry's equal or possibly his superior. And I think had Stephen played on teams like the Titans,

maybe we'd be having a different conversation. But what Derek Henry's done has been incredible. We just named three of the best big backs in the history of football. That's right. I just want to talk about Larry Zonka. There's some NFL news that's kind of swirling around. I don't know if you can call it news with the capital end because some of it is like slow newsday news.

shout out to Kevin Clark but we've got a couple topics take your pick where do you want to go first tampering tampering okay i know what it looks like what it looks like to a fan is like the NFL doesn't really care about tampering and that's true like pornography you know it when you see it sort of situation yeah yeah is that true yeah is there like a vendoza line for porn some politician said that when they were talking back you know when the internet became a thing I also love the fact that like in today's world, people have recently discovered that porn's bad for your brain and they're making it like a rallying cry for masculinity.

Like they just figured this out. All right. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famously said, I know it when I see it. Yeah. Well, I know tampering when I see it. And what Kirk Cousins was doing was tampering. Because Kirk Cousins admitted it like outright.

They were like, hey man, how's it feel to be a falcon? like man i was talking to everybody in the organization the last week you know whatever he said but he kind of he kind of incriminated himself and the falcons and so there's been there's been this long you know run on anticipation of what the penalty is going to be because it's going to say a lot about what the league thinks or doesn't think about tampering the eagles have also been involved in talks about tampering this offseason because of the james franklin snafu james franklin said that Howie Roseman and Saquan Barkley had talked leading up to, you know, the legal tampering period. Cheaters?

Well, here's the deal. People are going to react and say that Atlanta, who got docked a fifth round pick and a couple hundred thousand dollars for tampering with Kirk Cousins is getting off easy and that the Eagles are getting off easy as well. I would say neither of those things is true. I think that like if you look at the NFL and what they want out of this, they want it to be a slap on the wrist that pacifies the general public, but people in the NFL also knows it. They know that tampering exists. Like tampering is not something that's going away.

Tampering is something that happens. It's not encouraged. But I think in this case, what happened was Kirk was probably talking to a trainer about his rehab process. And I've talked about this before. think there should be exceptions that are made for players who are quote unquote tampering they might be doing that for some very legit reason like continuing his Achilles rehab you know I I don't want to assume that's what happened I think the deal probably could could have gotten done without tampering but here we are and I don't think if Kirk had to admit it we'd be talking about it at all right

but the people that say this is nothing like a fifth round pick is something think about who a team's willing to give up for a fifth round pick. Think about what a team's willing to send a fifth round pick for. Like, these are draft picks that win or lose a draft. If you're Atlanta, you spend a one this year on a quarterback who's going to collect dust for a couple years of everything's going according to plan. So, you know, capital is is not something you just throw away. So while I do think it's a relative slap on the wrist and the NFL's saying like, listen, we're not going to bury you over this, we just want it on record that you shouldn't do this. Like that's the way I see it. And for the Eagles, the reason they skated is because the guy who let it slip wasn't Saquan Barkley.

It was James Franklin. And Saquan Barkley and James Franklin have plausible deniability when it comes to misinterpreting whatever it was that was said to James Franklin. Don't you think teams, people associated with teams are in relative constant contact with players during non-contact period? I do think it's more normal than people realize. And so I don't think people in the league. up in arms. I think the Falcons might feel like, hey, we're victims. We were made an example of. But

sometimes people have to make examples and not big blow up like, you know, that Miami deal was a big thing. But it was, it was brazen. It was overt. The owner was involved. That's why I think if you dug and you found out what what the nature of the tampering was in this instance. I read something that somebody was talking about flights with him. Well, and that's what they see, this is where I think the NFL is trying to give Atlanta a little plausible deniability in the in the in the in the in the announcement of tampering you know they said something to the effect of the policy permits clubs engaging in negotiating with free agents during the two-day negotiating period and that includes uh travel

logistical etc so I think what they're saying is okay don't be bad even if you're being a little bad because that's what Atlanta was doing yeah that's what I think they're saying and I think the truth probably is that you know it was pretty inconsequential what was happening and I think the NFL should look at amending tampering the concept of tampering a little bit I think half of why there's you know a defined run on legal tampering and where you can't talk is so the NFL can funnel all this news at once it's a business deal right so like there's no huge competitive advantage in my mind if Kirk knows he wants wants to go to Atlanta, and if Atlanta's talking to him and a couple days before, he's talking to

the trainers or setting up travel, it's bureaucracy, right? It's just like it's red tape. You don't want to walk through it, but if somebody walks through it, we got to make a little example out of you. Yeah, I think that's the right take. Probably more tampering going on at midfield after a game than anything like this. No question. No question. I remember like you talk about tampering in college. Like, there's no tampering in college, right? But Dionne Sanders at midfield talking to your player for six months there was like the most terrifying thing in the world. There's nothing like that in the NFL. But there probably is a good bit of come get me, you know, at midfield.

Yep. Right? Like, I was on the Rams for eight years and we were losing a lot. Like, if I wanted to talk to a teammate and be like, yo, put in a word with your coach, like, I could do that. Yeah. I didn't do that. You were blinking twice. Yeah.

Yeah. But so yeah, it's something, but it's not something big. And I think we'll forget about this pretty soon. All right. Can I interest you in the future of Baron Brown's NFL career? Yes, you can. And I have no fucking clue if this is unsound or if it's bad for the, for the player, or why he needs money now.

But this dude, Baron Browning, has got some juice. And I've been unapologetically standing this guy. I've been like, I can't believe they made him an offball linebacker. Like what took him so long to make him an edge rusher? It reminds me of Von Miller. I think I've said that before. He's basically turned his own future contracts into an IPO that you can buy in and buy a piece. And if he makes over $100 million in his career, then you'll make money on your investment.

Well, explain that a little bit better because Browning is selling shares of his future earnings at $10 a share. They are selling 100,000 shares, which will raise $1 million. Right. So he gets money right now, which is great for him because he'll get a little less than a million dollars once this company vestible takes their cut. But he can get it big influx of cash right now. And if he makes over $100 million, which is like what the IPO is projecting him to make, that would be a break-even number for invest. Well, he's 25. I think we're going to be looking at two contracts over the next five, six years and he's got to hit him out of the park let me just read the second and important part of this in return shareholders are entitled to a collective one percent of his future on field earning so

it's hard to it's hard to calculate if you give ten thousand dollars what that's going to end up being but tell me if i give ten thousand dollars to baron browning's fund and he makes a hundred mill what i'm getting ten thousand dollars yeah you're breaking dead even but if he makes a hundred and fifty thousand, then you're making, or sorry, if he makes 150 million, then you're making five grand. Oh, wow. Hey. It's like a good old money market account. But if he ruptures his Achilles this year never plays again or decides to retire, you lose

the whole 10 grand. We can write angry letters to him. Relax, man. Listen, I just think it'd be really fun to pull for a player that you like. And when he gets paid, I can act like I get paid, even though I don't really get. Try this on for size, okay? Bonds. Put 50,000 bucks on Baron Browning week one over 0.5 sacks.

Does that do anything for you? No, there are limits on the bets you can place on props like that. Okay. For a reason. All right. Because no ball knowers know that Baron Browning is going to have a big breakout year and there's going to be a bunch of investors all rich. Like the guys that are like, hey, do you play in the Caribbean?

Can you hit the ball 500 feet? I'll give you $100. You've got to give me 500 mil. Like, this is a more benign version of that. It's a win-win for him. Like, if he makes the 100 million, he only has to give away 1%. It's not a big deal.

I wonder if we see more of this. That'd be 1 million. I wonder if we see more of this, and I wonder why we would see more of this. Insurance. Well, there's just no, like, I don't understand why you would need to fast cash. Well, for fans, it's another way to sports bet a little bit.

No question. You know, cashing in. I'm just talking about for Baron Browning. Because his potential career earnings could be only what he's earned thus far. This guarantees larger career earnings no matter what. Well, it only guarantees it if people are perceptive like myself. I would love to invest 10 grand in Baron Browning. And once he becomes the greatest player of all time, I get like $2,500.

Browning is in the final year of his four-year, $4.7 million rookie deal. Bro, he's about to go off this year. We should get him on the show and have him have him sell the idea. Hey, Baron, sell me on yourself. I'd like a million dollars. Yeah. That's the. What would it take for me to get?

How much would he have to make over his career for me to make $100,000 on a $10,000 investment? You're like a bill? One bill. Yeah. You never know. The people at, what's the name of this place? Vestable.

Vestable, they were like, we're really excited to hear you talk about this. I was like, sure. because I'm not sure I understand it yet, and I don't know that I'm going to be that excited, but I'm in. And his future on-field earnings. Do you think I could negotiate something here because of my... I think you should be careful.

Inside a trading. This is an official SEC IPO. Like, if you try to... Drive up the price and... Fair and Brown. How could I? You reminds me of Von Miller. No, he does.

He really does. Good. That first step's incredible. Yeah. Think about the way. the cap's going to go up. Could be a billion in 10 years. With that ankle flexion?

Yeah, he could go to the Saudi League, dude. Like, we don't know. There's a lot of upside to this, yeah, with that ankle flexion, yeah, you never know. I can't wait to tell my wife that I'm investing in Baron Browning. All right, well, anyways,

vestible. We'll get back to you. No, you know what? Fuck it. Fuck it. Center to the table. Let's go all in. Here's what I'm doing.

It's not just about the money to me. I want to be Barron Browning's Brian Windhorst one day. You know, when he's the next Vaughn Miller, you're going to need a windy, dude. And that's going to be me. And you're going to look back and be like, yo, you help me down. 10K? Yeah. You know you can start at $10.

You don't have to go to $10.000. Yeah, but it's not going to get, like, if I get to, well, $10 is going to make me like $20. if that wouldn't be very if he has an exceptional career yes dude i want to i want i want when that five thousand dollar check comes in in 10 years i want to be like i want to have a party you know what i mean yep i only lost five and i want to invite barren browning because he's going to be so rich he could probably just fucking buzz over in his g5 dude he's going to be like von miller and i think next year that if you sign baron browning you're going to win the super bowl i haven't invested yet.

Shoot, he wears 56. He does, dude, he looks great. A little bit like LT to me. He looks way better

than Chris Long didn't that eagle's 56. When I see 56, that's how a 56 is supposed to look. Okay. So yeah,

I just wanted to talk about that. Are we on the Baron Browning topic or the tampering topic? I think we're like a little bit of a mesh. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, there's legality. There's relevant legality with both of these issues. And was Sam Darnold? is that a transition speaking of legality it should be illegal to have sam darnall and j jay mccarthy sam darnald's getting first team reps with the how do you feel about this do you like it yeah i love it i love it i think it's the way to go i think when you have young players you're always pulling a couple levers one of the

levers is confidence right and the other lever is pressure and like if you have a healthy dose of both like that player is going to succeed if he's good enough. At quarterback, it's complicated, right? Because the thing that can build a player confidence is getting in there and getting reps, but it can also kill his confidence. And that's for any position player. So you have to be careful about how you insert a rookie

into your plans, like immediately. At quarterback, it's really important because you can wreck a quarterback, like immediately. You can wreck a quarterback, the most important thing a quarterback has, which is between the ears. If you run a guy out there and he don't know what he's doing and he is the talk of the town in a bad way, his first year in the league, there's more examples of it not working than it eventually working. And that seems obvious, but I really like the way they're going about this.

And I think Sam Darnold, we said it last year. He got a little time against the Ravens. And you're like, all right, like he can run that offense. And the way we're talking about Brock Purdy, I'm not comparing the two. but Brock Purdy's a guy who's a franchise quarterback he's starting quarterback like I could see Sam Darnel being at least a bridge for a team who's competitive and I'd like to see him have another opportunity I know some people are like you're a first round pick quarterback apologist no I'm not I'm not up here I'm not up here campaigning for Zach Wilson or you know

whoever the last five that flamed out where like I just see a little something in Sam Darnold that it doesn't look like you're run of the mill like this guy can't play It looks like they dropped this guy in Afghanistan, and then they sent him to Iraq. I'm not totally following you. You know what I'm talking about. He's played for the Jets and the Panthers. And then he went to like the embassy in Bali in San Francisco.

So like things are looking up. Now he's stationed in Fort Benning. You never know where you can get sent. And I think if they're starting him on this football team with Justin Jefferson and Hawkinson and whoever else they got offensively. Like, I think they're going to be fun to watch. And I think he's going to be fun to watch because I think the NFL and NFL fans,

like we like second chances. We'll drag a guy through the mud for years. And then if he can redeem himself, like people get behind him. So I'm excited to see. And Aaron Jones, you know, who Matt just threw up on the screen there. It's easy to forget he's going to be there on a $6 million deal. That's a threat out of the back. field if he can stay healthy like i am a buyer when it comes to minnesota i i bet their season

win total nobody knows better than me that minnesota is like the new they're like the nfc pittsburg i'm not saying they're physical i'm not saying they're tomlins like o'connell but what i am saying is like he can coach and i've seen them scratch and claw their way to eight nine wins at least over his tenure and they had kirk for a lot of it but last year what did was like pulling a fucking rabbit out of a hat they're starting jaron hall they were starting josh jobs they were starting mullins and they still moved the ball on the lions at times which is an asterisk last year that that secondary but but i really like this coach and i want to see sam darnall get another get another chance and here's what you do by making sam darnald the starter and not playing one of these

fucking head games that coaches like to play you know where they hold their cards close to the vest they might they might dangle some motivation over these two quarterbacks like both these quarterbacks want to do well once you understand the two guys you have in the building really want to win you try to empower them both and in different ways and the best way to empower j jay mccarthy right now is to sit him as long as you can i'm not saying he's mahomes i'm not saying he's brady but those guys didn't start right away and i'd also say this when it comes to comment confidence circling back to my original point. If you put him in the game, you can wreck his confidence, especially a guy coming from Michigan's offense to a pro-style offense that's going to, you know,

it's going to major and throwing the ball around the yard. Sam Darnold, his confidence will improve, getting this news, getting an opportunity in camp, and the pressure is off J.J. McCarthy. And the pressure is off Sam Darnold, you know, because I feel like if he's in the, if he's in the seat behind J.J., it's toxic. because then he's rooting against JJ. Yes. You know what I mean? Sam's going to be much more willing to pass on what he knows. From the front.

Yes. And you can trade it. And it's a built-in confidence booster for McCarthy whenever they do hand him the ball. Yes. It's okay. Yep. I have now ascended.

I love this for Donald. It's an opportunity. It's an audition because it might not be Minnesota, but somebody else might have Sam Darnold as their starting quarterback in two years. you know um okay question for you who is that well where where is the the line of demarcation here when you when you go ahead and start the rookie Washington for instance jaden daniels with marius mariotta i like starting jaden daniels there even though i think that he might get split in half i mean like

new england brissette in may i would start brissette i think the cupboard so bare up there i The Starper set, now bring May along. And knowing what they've been through, I just mentioned Tom Brady, like the model for them is development. Now, it's Gerraub Mayo's team now. So I don't know, he might say, hey, young guy, we draft you to play, you know? But I saw it with Sam Bradford, okay?

Sam's mentally tough as hell, but he got obliterated his first couple years. Like there were games where, and I've told you about this, I can remember vividly playing the Sanford Cisco 49ers, him having a high ankle sprain that was so bad he couldn't walk off the bus because he got sacked 13 times a week before and him arguing with coaches trying to play. Like he, and you have to protect the player from themselves with injury, but you also have to protect young players from the NFL.

You know, the NFL is going to chew you up and spit you out. And if you're a quarterback, such a mental position, I just don't love throwing guys in the fire. It's one of the reasons why I've tempered my expectations on the Bears. I would love to see the Bears win 13 games this year. I'll be, I'll jump, I'll jump on their bandwagon and I'll wave a white flag and say, I was wrong that they're going to win nine games. But people assume that quarterbacks, even generational ones, can walk into a situation and improve it right away.

Every situation is not going to play out like Houston, C.J. Straub. You know, there's also scenarios we've seen play out. out with Joe Burrow with Sam Bradford, who, in my opinion, once he was shot physically, it was like, it was a miracle. He was mentally okay to take the field after those multiple ACLs and all the sacks and hits. And if you looked at our offense back then, it was bad. It was like malpractice. Do you think the contract changing structure, like the rookie salary structure changing affects the way that coaches and GMs think about it? Absolutely. Sam, Sam Bradford's, was getting, I think, a $50 million contract.

You got to play them. You know, back in the day when we came in the league and we were high picks, like, we had the expectations. We got the money, but the expectations were heightened. And I think for fans, the big difference is like fans look at these new CBA quarterbacks just the same as they look at the old CBA quarterbacks. It's not their money. They're aware of the implications with the salary cap, so I'm sure they like the new system.

but there was a whole other layer of pressure making all that money immediately and that was the players on the team and like you can feel those eyeballs when you're not playing well and you're making a lot of money and you're young and I always remember this like thinking they're giving me James Hall's reps

James Hall should be I should have to earn those reps but I remember my D-line coach Brian Baker sat me down and I was like he's showing me footage of James Hall we're in his office first time I ever met him and he's showing me an hour of James Hall. And he's like, you ready to beat this guy out? He's like, because I got to be honest.

I don't think you can. He goes, but they need you to play right now. So if you're going to take his reps, you got to make sure that you feel good about that. And I'm like, I don't really feel like I have a choice in the matter. I'll run out of the tunnel whenever you want me to run out of the tunnel. I'll run off the sideline whenever you run off the sideline. But that's a reality in the house.

NFL. And so I think like these new guys don't have as much pressure on them in the building, but outside of the building, it's just the same. These fans want to see these guys play right now. I'd say just be patient because the best thing for your organization might be giving this kid a beat, especially if you got a Sam Darnel. And a really good, productive, encouraging rookie season does not necessarily mean anything for the future. Three of the best rookie seasons in the last 20 years. RG3, Mack Jones, Baker Mayfield, who's having a little bit of a resurgence, but it seems like there's,

there are more success stories when the quarterback sits to start. And Trevor Lawrence had to play, he had the Urban Meyer deal, people, people were like, yeah, I don't know, and then he looked great, and that, it's, there's an ebb and flow early in quarterback's careers. And the better you can control that process,

the better it's gonna be for your team in the outlook. And the new CBA is a terrific point, because now you don't feel like you have to. You don't feel like that draft pick has you by the balls. Although there is still the opportunity cost of trying to win while that quarterback is on his rookie contract. So there's still some and sentence. No question.

But it's a good problem to have, in my opinion, if you get two years out of Sam Darnold, and one day JJ wakes up and he's like, fucking... Great spot. And in two more years, you've got to pay the kid? Okay. Green Bay Packers model. Yeah.

I mean, I don't think. Green Bay is like, fuck, at this point. Green Bay is not like, oh, fuck, man. I wish we'd have played Jordan Lovemore and his rookie deal. Right. Hey, we got a quarterback of the future and this shit was seamless, dude.

We went from a Hall of Famer to one of the brightest stars in the game. And from what I hear, JJ McCarthy has wowed people with some of his arm strength, but has to work on making some of these touch passes. And one of the things that actually impressed me about him in college was some of the middle of the field throws,

the intermediate stuff. I think once he gets the system down, there couldn't be a better, coach to lead you and walk into a building. I mean, I know there are other offensive, like Andy Reid gets a bunch of credit, Sean McVeigh, who we've got on the show on Monday, but I think this guy in Minnesota's a whiz. I think he's going to be there a long time.

And if he finds his quarterback, look out because he knows how to coach. Speaking of, the NBA finals now sit at three games to nothing. Which was news to me this morning. Yeah, that snuck up on you? Really did. I was sitting here today looking at the start time of game three, which was tonight. And it's somebody Florida and Edmonton. Well, somebody, yeah. So somebody, somebody, somebody said something about the wind horse thing, wind horse ripping Luca. Yeah. And I spent last night, like, I was, I was at my wits end. I just went upstairs after the kids went down and I played Madden for three hours. Okay. And it was awesome. I didn't look at my phone once. had no idea that one of the four major sports were playing in a championship game.

Okay? I blame you, NBA. Oh, thank you. Okay? It's not, it's not, it's on the backs of the conversation we had the other day. Like, I know it's my job to follow sports, but it's your job to give me some good sports to follow.

And I guess Luca laid an egg, huh? Can't play defense. Wind horse is mad at him. Wind horse says somebody, he's never, what did he say? Nobody in his life ever has ever I don't know, stood up to him. He doesn't have any people in Dallas or in his life that can

get him straight essentially in terms of not complaining so much about the officiating and blaming the refs and trying really hard on deep. And you know what my take is? I can't give a take because I didn't see the game. But you know what? The defense was bad. Which doesn't stop some people, but I

would say this. My one take from the wind horse commentary is that it's LeBron related. Maybe LeBron doesn't like him, and maybe LeBron doesn't like all the attention he's getting, and maybe Winhorse doesn't get the access, as you pointed out, that LeBron gives him, or some other players give Winhorse. In fact, Luca is probably the only guy that could maybe pass LeBron's all-time scoring record. Well, not anymore. Not after that. Takedown from Wendy. He's going to be tough. May not play again. I don't know if you can hide him out there.

He's so bad defensively. I think you might want to start a... James Wiseman. James Wiseman doesn't play for the Mavs, but since we're talking about the NBA, I'm going to let Reed play before Rick Carlisle. I'm going to let Reed play some audio of my son Whalen. So the other night we're in the driveway playing basketball. It was prompted by Wayland telling my wife Meg,

who was actually a pretty good basketball player in high school, not anymore. He said, I could beat you mom because sometimes she lets him win. And she goes, you really want to see? Like, I'm like, okay, Hardo. Get out there. So she beats some 10-0 by once, right? And I got to watch the whole thing. And she's pounding her chest.

Kids crying. No, he's just like, man, this sucks. And I go, Whalen, give me the ball. I said, Meg, check up. She said, like, right now? I said, yeah, you just beat up on somebody two feet shorter than you. I'm gonna do the same. Yeah.

So I just filleted her ass. You know, like it looked. It looked like, it looked like the select team playing the dream team if it went how you'd think it would go. You know? You had a decent little fadeaway. I had a decent fade away. Good footwork too. Yeah.

It's the taller players to give me trouble. Remind me a bit of a Lajuan. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, end up just, again, it's the feminist thing to do. You know, she don't want me to let her win. So I dust her off 10-0.

and whalen gives us 10 minutes of solid gold videoing and doing his best Marv Albert impression on the side of the court i'm going up sinking these fadeaways dazzling footwork great handles and he's calling me Janus he's like and yonis scores again you know like in yonis i did a cupo and he's actually pretty good with the pronouncing yeah he's better than his dad's a ball no perfect ball knower I check up to Meg and he goes, and then here we have, and here we have, and here's James Wiseman. And the funniest fucking thing to me about it is he knows so much ball that he's picked out James Wiseman as a guy that's like the antithesis of, of, because he watches these fucking YouTube videos and all these nerdy white guys who are just shitting on NBA draft picks. And so he comes out of the YouTube portal and he's like, fuck James. James Wiseman.

He's like, James Wiseman's not good. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, you will never be James Wiseman. Remember the thing about the white goats? Right. Like, Wiseman's got something you don't have, okay? First off. And second off, there's no bad players in the NBA.

Of any league, if you're going to claim, there's no bad players in the league. Like, the NBA is the one to claim. Like, all those guys were the biggest heroes at every gym they ever fucking played basketball and growing up. He averaged seven and five this year. seven and five in the NBA that's that's now micha parsons said if he had a hundred at bats he would have he would bat 200 in the majors hmm i don't know mike about that dude

but i will say i love this mike and strowd connection they're out there just it's like uh and they're they're a perfect pair you know it's a defensive player in in texas it's an offensive player in texas two best players in texas one's on defense one's on the biggest football mecca in the united states the pro teams have not been so great the last 30 years but these two guys getting along is good for football and it's funny to watch them making content because micah is like a kid who says whatever he feels and cj is like an adult and one that seems so it's it's not he it's not like he doesn't like my guy i can tell he loves him but he's like this motherfucker i cannot believe he said he would

he would bat 200 in the bigs anyways wayland 10 minutes of great play-by-play. And he features in the Rick Carlisle interview. He does feature in the Rick Carlisle interview. So shout out to Waylon. Common thread. And his NBA expertise, really. Are we going to hear all 10 minutes?

No, we're just going to play the best snippets here before Rick Carlisle. All right. Now we have James Wiseman. Air ball. Air ball from James Wiseman. What is she doing out here? What is she doing? What would you like to say?

What would you like to say? Luke Long said it best. I'm working hard, but I'm losing. Yep, you need a bigger body. That's my. Janice, Janice, Yonis, steps back. We got James Wiseman again.

Now, we have one problem with the Rick Carlisle interview. It's probably not going to be a big problem because nothing's changed in the series, but like we recorded it two days ago. Yep, it was two nothing, now it's three nothing. You know, and Rick said one thing that I want to, I want to disagree with him on, and he was like, the maps could win it.

They can't win it. Well, in his defense, well, why don't we play the interview? Two days ago. Why don't we play the interview? Then maybe we can, yeah, yeah, no question. We can talk about it. That's your friend, man. Yeah, that's my guy.

Yeah. Hey, y'all, Green Light has official merch. like this hat right here like the one on my head this dad hat love this hat i'm not even a dad hat guy but this thing fits great this this hat right here fits great uh we've got hoodies we've got tea by the way this hoodie's like super comfy i mean it's like soft plush it's not the type of hoodie that's going to get stiff with one wash uh and the shirts too because like i'm a big comfort guy okay you got like this white shirt here you got the shirt with the logo the Abby Road looking logo with Dr. Fax smoking presumably a blunt,

Kyle carrying Cowboy Reed, making driveling a basketball, which I've never seen him actually do, and me carrying a football. And then you've got the black shirt here too with the logo. So stickers, hit the link in the description in the video, below the video, actually, and make sure to tag us on social media showing off your green light merch. It's quality, quality threads here. Okay, wouldn't do it any other way. All right, we've got NBA head coach, NBA champion as a player, as a coach.

He's a Wahoo. And he gave us a lot to watch this year with the Indiana Pacers. That was a fun team. Head coach, Rick Carlis. Welcome to the program. How you doing, coach? Chris, how are you making? Good to join you guys.

Everything is good. Everything is good. The first question I have is, how's Macon's golf game? Well, let's see. When we played last week, it didn't start out great, but it showed improvement. And I think he has tools. He's got tools. All right.

He's got clubs. I met, listen. He does have clubs. I meet Rick Carlisle. We have a conversation. We exchange numbers. Yeah. And then I send him a text saying, hey,

next time you're here, let's play golf, thinking I'm never going to be taken up on that. And he responds with, are you free today? He likes playing golf, man. And then so I'm standing over the first tee and I'm like, there's a chance here that I play extremely well and impress NBA champion Rick Carlisle. And the first swing went about part three downhill, hard to screw up. It went about 10 yards toward the hole and 50 yards straight to the right. Is that a slice? Yeah. I don't know if it didn't even qualified as a slice.

I'd like to get out there with you guys one day. I'm thinking about buying club. Coach, I have a special guest in the studio. He's a big NBA fan. He's my son Whalen. He's eight years old. And we were careful about which jerseys to wear today because he has a ton of NBA jerseys.

And he has one question for you. You ready, way? Okay, ask him. In the playoffs, why did you only wear yellow? Yeah, that was. That was somehow decided ahead of time. And, you know, none of the other teams that we would have been playing have gold uniforms. So I think that Tyrese Halliburton was in on the decision.

Turned out that they were pretty lucky. So that was good. And what you're seeing now in the NBA is, you know, it was always the home team wore white. and then the road team wore whatever their color was. I think in NHL hockey, it's the opposite. I think the home team wears their color and the road team wears white. Football, Chris, I don't know, does it vary some?

It's white on the road, yeah, so you'd wear the white on the road. And the offensive linemen would get mad when we go on the road because they look bigger in the unforgiving white jerseys. But they don't have that issue in the NBA. The players decide a lot, coach? Yeah, the players are in a lot of stuff. I doubt it's a whole lot different in football.

Probably not. We'd have meetings a night before and boat on it. So it sounds about right. Good question, Way. Good question. Anything else you know to say to coach? He was excited to say hi. Okay, cool.

All right. I like the Steph Curry jersey. I'm actually wearing a pull one of these off. One of our players has an underarmored deal. I've got these Curry. Oh, nice. Oh, birthday. Wait, when's your birthday?

March. March 2nd. Okay, well, I'll try to get a pair of those, man. Okay. Hey, coach, we actually, we took him up to see Curry up in Washington this year. The Wizards hooked us up. And we got to sit down close to the court and watch him take warm-ups and the whole thing. So I guess maybe my first question off that would be,

can players learn to shoot at a certain age? Like, is there a Mendoza line for where you as coach? and developers of talent say, hey, this guy just doesn't have a stroke. Can a guy forget to shoot? You know, can a guy forget his shot? What goes on behind the scenes with that? Because a lot of times we assume a guy can either shoot or he can't. Yeah, it's an interesting question.

You know, I've seen guys that came in the league. There was a guy named Rajabelle years ago who came in the league and just could not make anything. He was a guy who was a great defender. he could get to the rim. He can make a little bit in the mid-range floaters and so like that, but just long-range couldn't. And then, gosh, six or seven years into his career, he ended up in Phoenix with Mike De Antony,

who's a guy that's been known to be a guy that can just turn players loose. And I don't know if he adjusted something with his shot or his rhythm, but he ended up becoming a first. 40% shooter late in his career. So, you know, it can't happen. Sometimes with big men, you know, the guys grow up, they're in the post, they're, you know, rim running and doing that kind of stuff. Nowadays, because the game has gotten so stretched out, and now we have, we have five

men that are shooting 30-foot shots, driving the ball, making plays, driving in addition. You know, the big guys are, you know, they're, you know, they're, working at this because they know it's also something that can get them paid more money. So, you know, there have been some centers. Like going back to the 70s, like Jack Sigma, who was a guy that, you know, just went in the Hall of Fame two or three years ago, was a face-up, post-up guy, put the ball behind his head, and he had this series of moves. But as he went along, he got to where he was shooting a little further out.

Then he got traded into Milwaukee with Don Nelson, who's another right-brain, really creative coach. Don Nelson was the guy that took Dirk Wittske and took him from the small forward position to the power forward position, told him to stay on the perimeter and shoot jump shots and threes or drive the ball. But Sigma, when he went to Milwaukee, became really one of the first potent three-point shooters back in the early to mid-80s. And then, you know, the trend was slowly established. And then now you see where the three-point shot is. It's the most potent weapon in the game. So break this down for me.

Dirk comes to the States and he becomes this great shooter as a big guy. But there was some intervention stateside. It was Don Nelson more than, you know, the European system. Or, you know, because the way I understand it is today is the game is so influenced by a European developmental system and some of these guys coming over. They're growing up shooting that. way and playing that way. How do you see that influence applied to the game today? And then also is it overblown, like in the case of Dirk where he comes over and learns to shoot?

Well, Dirk knew how to shoot before he got over here. I think the thing was that in that period of time, you know, the trend was if you had a guy that was seven foot one and could shoot the ball from the perimeter and you could put him at the three position and you can add more length to your team. That was what everybody was trying to do. They were trying to get, you know, the longer guys like, you know, the Celtics front line, the guys I played with in the mid-80s, you know, Parrish, Mikhail and Bird. Bird was almost 6'10. McHale was almost seven foot. Parrish was, Robert Pierce was seven foot or seven-foot one. And their length was daunting for opponents. But as the game began to speed up and, you know, Don Nelson was one of

the real, real innovators of the game. He was one of the first guys that played zone defense. He inverted his, his guys, he had small guys posting up and big guys spotting up. And what that was, Dirk tried to play the three position for about a year and a half,

and it just didn't work, you know, and finally put him, put him at the four position and kept him on the outside. And his career took off, and he became a 14-time, 15-time All-Star and, you know, was enthrined in the Hall of Fame. And I think he scored 32,000 points or something,

he's six or seventh all time. So, you know, you got to get the right coach at the right time, as well as, you know, having the right guys on your roster. So you can accentuate your abilities. I heard you tell Dan Patrick the first time you saw Luca play was in a pickup game in 18 and he reminds you of Magic Johnson a little bit. I don't want to take the words out of your mouth, but the way he applied pressure in a pickup game

without trying to score. You know, do you remember other pickup games where you saw a guy for the first time and you were blown away in person? What's your favorite pickup game first memory of a player? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, the Luga Donchich one was the one that was the most, eye-opening to me. Now, you know, we drafted him, and the only guy that knew how good he was,

really knew how good he was, was Donnie Nelson, who was our general manager. Donnie was a guy that had brought some of the first European players. And so, you know, he really knew Europe well. And on films, Luca, you know, you just couldn't tell. He was a six, seven, six, eight guy that handled the ball a lot, but didn't really look like a point guard. And at times on his team, there were other guys that were handling the ball. And so, you know, and the other thing is, as you watch him and you watch him now, he doesn't look fast, but he gets by people. And the thing that you learn about him very quickly, particularly we have a chance to work

with him, coach him, is that he is super big, super strong, unbelievably quick and extremely fast. Now, it doesn't look like he plays fast, but he can turn on the burners, and he is an amazing athlete. And he can play above the rim, too. He doesn't do it very much because he's mastered the game, you know, on the ground and just by, you know, leaving, leaving the floor just slightly, because that's how he controls the leverage of players that are that are bumping him and stuff like that. And that's why he's able to finish and get in one so much. So, like, I think right now, you know, you look at the run he's been on during the, during the playoffs, leading to the finals, what he's done in the first two games of the finals. I mean, if this guy isn't the best player in the

world. I don't know who it don't know who is. I mean, he is he is that amazing. Yeah, he's incredible. And he does look like he plays bigger than he is even. Yeah. Like, I don't know what he weighs. I don't know what he tips the scale at, but the guy just, he seems like he just moves people out the way. He's got great feet where he can just get by people. Yeah. At time of tape coach, the Celtics are up to nothing. Derek White said after game two, Indiana is really hard to guard. unreal credit to them they're just difficult to guard referring to the eastern conference finals if you're coaching the Dallas Mavericks which you have done before to awarding well championship yeah what would you do to change things in this series do you think there's a path for

Dallas to to get back into this thing and win it well there is a path I mean you know the series really hasn't started yet doesn't start until a you know a team wins on the road and so Boston's done what they're supposed to do. They win the first two games at home. Like the second game, I was at the second game. I was there presenting an award. And, I mean, it was a war. It was a physical war.

Both teams are high-level defensive teams. Both teams rebounded. They play above the rim with their big guys. And going into game three now at the time that we are taping, which would be tomorrow night, you know, Porzingis has got some. some kind of leg thing going on where he is, he will be listed as questionable and perhaps may not play. We don't know. But, you know, you take a guy like that out of the equation,

you get a chance to go home with your crowd. You know, I expect Dallas to bounce back in a big way anyway in game three. That's, that's, you know, normally the pattern. But look, we, we played, you know, we played as the road team in the first two series that we played in one. You know, we won game two in Milwaukee on the road. That gave us home court. We went home. We won two. We got blasted in game five at Milwaukee.

Then we went home and we got it done. And then against New York, we lost the first two games in New York. Came home for game three. And it was a ballbuster game. Andrew Nimhart hit a, you know, a clutch three in the last minute to give us. us a little bit of cushion and we're going to win that game and then you know we we we won one game four easily went back got blasted in game five again and then came home um one game six and then you know had it had a historic game on the road in game seven and won so you know these these series

tip on the slimmest of margins you know like like Dallas didn't play very very well in game too and missed a lot of free throws and turned it over. Interestingly, in almost every one of our playoff games, the team that was the most physical, had the greatest level of physical presence and had more rebounds, won virtually every game. And, you know, there was a stat. There's a stat in hockey and football has this stat. Chris, as you're aware, it's hits.

hits on the quarterback. In hockey, it's very interesting. The year we won the championship in Dallas, on our off days between games, the NHL finals were going on and the Bruins were playing in Vancouver. And the trend was that the team that was winning each game

was not the team with the most shots on goal. It was the team with the greatest number of hits. And so it's another thing that really very vividly demonstrates, you know, the importance of persistence. Like if you're going to go, Chris, if you're going to go lecture to a group of people that wanted to talk to you about football and life, I mean, the hits stat in football and in hockey is a great sports metaphor to life. And so, you know, when we were playing in these first two series, everybody questioned whether or not we could make the game fast enough and play at the tempo we wanted to play at. The only way we could do it was to pick up full court and really pressure the other team and make them play faster than they wanted to. And then we had more depth. And so, you know, you can always, you can always find a way, but you've got to have the right players and you got to have a willingness, you know, to play.

play to exhaustion and really do it the hard way. So anyway, I forgot what the question was. I'm just like lost and talking bald. I know. It doesn't really matter what the question was. I'm peering under the hood, man. This is, I know, but coach, the question I have with the three-point shot

and the way the games change gradually and the variability that comes with it, do you come into a game where you're saying, hey, there's two outcomes. Either we're hot or we're cold early. How do you decide when you're going to stick to your guns and keep chucking up threes if that's the game plan? And how do you decide to, you know, divert a little bit and say, hey, tonight's not our night? From a process standpoint, just about every team in the league wants either to get to the

rim. I mean, the most, the highest value shot in the game is probably free throws because you're scoring with the clock stopped and you get to set your defense. So that's one thing. The second highest value is a layout. because it's a very, very high percentage shot. You get a chance for an end one. And then the next highest value shot is a catch and shoot three point shot.

And so, you know, how do you generate them? In the old days, you know, back in the late 80s, 90s, when the three point shot was becoming used more, a lot of times it was generated out of the post. You'd have great post players like Elijah one, Patrick Ewing. guys like that that would work themselves into the paint here comes a double team and now it would kick out and it would be driving kick for threes or good look because it looks at mid-range shots if

defenders flew by you know today's game the analytics people don't want to see mid-range shots now you think about it you know there's a lot of smart teams smart coaches good players great players. If you really want to, you can create a game plan to minimize the number of rim attacks and the number of threes, but you're going to give the midrange. So I believe you still have to work on that shot. Love it. And look, it's still a skill game.

And sometimes you've simply got to feed the beast and figure out what the other team is willing to live with, and you've got to beat them with that. Now your question is a very good one. If you're a three-point shooting team and you're having one of those nights, and like a good example of this is when you go into a back-to-back in the NBA. You know, most times on the second night of a back-to-back, teams do not shoot the three at the same, anywhere near the same clip they do when they're fresh. And so you've got to have, you know, your messaging to the team is you've got to be very careful about it.

Because you still want to shoot good threes. And there have been plenty of nights in my career. I mean, I've coached, you know, I'm approaching 2000 games coach. And there have been nights on back-to-backs where you shoot the ball unbelievably well. Right. But in those instances where you get off to a slow start, whatever, the messaging that we use is we've got to play faster, we've got to attack the paint. And we've got to get to the rim more. We've got to get to the rim more.

And then as you do that, the drives and the passes that kick straight out that allow players to catch the ball stepping forward into the shot are going to be much higher percentage shots than ones where guys are going to be catching it like this and having to turn and shoot. And so, you know, some of this is geometry as well. But the other way you control the games with your defense and with rebounding. And so the big things, and this is most important probably in football, is field position and turnovers.

And so if you're not turning it over a lot and you rebound well, I mean, you're a team that can win a lot of games. Now, if you have good talent, if you throw it all over the place and you're rebounding and spotty, you're going to be up and down and inconsistent and you're going to drive your fans nuts. I just want to come back to one thing. We were talking about Europe and European players and Luca and Dirk.

You know, you coached somebody that could have been one of the best ever and obviously died in a car accident, Petrovich in New Jersey, and also Sabonis, somebody who, I think if he'd have played his entire NBA career or his entire basketball career in the NBA, he'd be thought of even differently.

Can you speak to how? how different those two legacies could have been. They're great legacies, but in our sport in America, what people don't know about those guys. Well, you guys have done your homework. I'm depressed. No, I mean, actually, I grew up watching Sabonis, and for me, it's crazy, coach,

because people were like, hey, dude, the guy you're seeing right now is not like the guy that was playing in Europe. And that was shocking to me. And then I pulled up the YouTube stuff from him over in Europe, and it was incredible. like my dad used to describe Elway a certain way in the 80s and he was like Chris you couldn't catch him and then I watched him in the 90s and he's helicoptering in the end zone he looks like he's central casting for a veteran quarterback that can't run anymore it's like it's two different players

but it's the same guy and I feel like we didn't get the whole picture with subonis and we didn't get the whole experience with Petrovich very true Petrovich was gosh I mean look I coached Reggie Miller um I played I played against Reggie Miller. I played with Reggie Miller on summer league teams. Reggie was a great player. I played with Larry Bird. He won the three-point contest three times in a row

and did it with his warm-up jaggon on. I mean, Chaunty Billis was a great shooter. I had him in Detroit. Then, you know, Nowitzki and Jason Terry, and like Jason Kidd was his top five all-time in three-point make. So I had a lot of great shooters. You know, we had Buddy Healed for two years in Indiana, and he'll be now as one of the greatest shooters,

three-point shooters in history. Petrovich could do it off the move, maybe better than anybody I've ever seen. He could fly from one baseline to the other, turn, catch, shoot, swish it, and then land in the other team's bench and make it look like incredibly easy. He had amazing,

strong legs. And the guy was a machine the way he worked at shooting. I mean, he was a, his mechanics were, were perfect. And I mean, he can stand out there and shoot, you know, I'll give you another guy. We had Steyakovich with us the year we won the championship in Dallas. One day after practice, I watched Steyakovich make 96 out of 100 threes. Fucking unbelievable. That's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. But Petro was a guy that could have done that. Dirk was a guy that could shoot, you know, in the 90s out of 100 from three.

I saw him do that a lot. You know, Jason Terry the same way. Sabonis was also a great shooter. And I played against Sabonis when he was 18. I was at Virginia in, it was December of 82. And the Soviet team was touring the United States. They played Indiana. they played us, they played one other team.

And, you know, Sabonis was 18 years old, and he was just becoming like that guy. And he was amazing then, but he was, they had a lot of veterans on that team, and he didn't shoot the ball all that much. When he, when he was 23, 24, 25, 26 before he tore his Achilles, go on YouTube and, like, punch in Arvita Sabonis pre-injury. I mean, these highlights shattered backwards

you know like unbelievable dumps like this I mean just he was he was a 7 foot 4 Larry Bird

but but more dynamic crazy crazy I mean so you know it's one of the things about about life you know

sometimes you only get a peek at, you know, true greatness from a couple of guys. But those guys were extremely special. And I was very fortunate. So bonus came over at age 31 to Portland when I was an assistant. And he still played at a high level. And he understood the game so well and had such great skill that he could beat you with passing, rebounding, and he could post up.

And he shot three easily. So, you know, and his son now, DeMontas Sabonis, for, you know, half a year in Indiana before the trade. And, you know, he made all NBA this year. So, yeah, really special guys. Coach, is there a common thread of the great teams you've been a part of, be it the final four at Virginia after Ralph, be it the 80s? 76 Celtics, the 2011 title team, a bunch of teams in between this year's Eastern Conference

Finals Club. Is there some common characteristic of those teams that has made them great, regardless of level era, style, et cetera? Yeah, you know, our 86 Celtics team was an amazing team because there were six Hall Favors on that team. And because we had Bill Walton and other great players, guys like me could make the team and actually play in the games. You know, I mean, that's how it was. And we had a few plays, but we didn't have a whole lot of set plays or, you know, Casey Jones, our coach didn't call plays very much. You know, Dennis Johnson, who played the point, he called stuff. When our second unit was out there, we had something we just called it two. and it was basically move the ball,

get it to Bill, Walton, and the post, and just start moving around. He would, you know, he would, we would just generate shots because we were good cutters, screeners, and we could shoot. You know, it was like me, Jerry C. Sting, Scott Wedman,

and we'd have one of the other starters in the game a lot of the time. We'd have either Michaela or Bird, you know, and that was pretty good. But we played a freelance style, and I'll tell you, just a little side story, You know, I played Boston for three years and then went to the CBA for briefly and got signed by the Knicks.

So I was with the Knicks for a year. And the Knicks had Patrick Ewing who was young, Mark Jackson who was young. Rick Petino was the coach. And Rick was, you know, he and his staff were like, these guys were so dialed into every little detail. They came to me before we were getting ready to play Boston when I was with the Knicks with all these diagrams. different things that were happening and they're saying our scouts can't get the calls you know or I was at the game last night I don't get the calls you know what are the calls for all these things and I just said they're just playing that they're so hard to guard is you know number one they have great players but number two it's you know they play a random style that um is unpredictable and the more unpredictable like like they don't even know what's going to happen.

And so you've got to kind of defend them, you know, conceptually. So I felt that that was a beautiful way to play. It was a beautiful game to watch. When I ended up going to Dallas, you know, I'd always take an elements of our 86 team with all the teams that I had over the years. But the Dallas team was extra special because we had some old school guys. guys knew how to move, cut, we could shoot, you know, we do all those things. And so, you know, we won that championship basically calling no plays during the playoffs.

In fact, almost every time we ran some kind of a play after a timeout, the other team would just blow it up because teams have you scouted so well during the playoffs, you know, we come into huddles and just say, hey, just keep it moving. keep it moving and and our guys thrived in that element and so you know like this year with indiana you know when you play as fast as we play it's it's almost impossible to call plays i mean and so you play out of concepts and you play you know with um like triggers that you know that the team learns on, you know, how to make reeds and stuff like that. But the ball is constantly moving.

You're blurring, which is in ghost screening, which means you're coming up to screen and slipping out. And you're just creating as much chaos as you can and trusting that the movement, the speed, and the passing of the ball is going to yield a great shot. And, you know, I think we led the league in field goal percentage, so it was affected. But, you know, that's what I have. have taken, you know, over the years. And it goes back to, it goes back to the 86 team, you know, that the freelance style and creating, creating unpredictability for,

for the defense that's trying to guard me. Going back to the 86 team, because that's kind of Boston, where it all began for you. And I just, I think watching you give that award last night, you got to feel some juice when you walk back in that building, just the memories. And it's, and you're really, relationship with Larry Bird, really instrumental I could tell in your professional career.

And just what are the emotions that you feel when you go back? And is it complicated when you're coaching in the garden wearing that yellow jersey? Well, you know, it's a very interesting question. You know, I've been back there so many times now that, you know, it's not quite the way it was. Like I remember when I went to the Knicks and came back and played there, you know, it was it was really weird, you know. And as you go along, I go back in the TD Garden now, and there's four or five people there, including Jeff Twist, who's the VP of PR. Jeff had just gotten the PR job when I was a rookie with the Celtics. I mean, he's still working there.

There's a guy named Francis O'Brien, who's, you know, one of the ticket guys in the back hallway, you know, and he works with the ballboards on stuff. I mean, there's still familiar faces there. And so it's special, you know. And then like every time you are in Boston and our hotel is on Boylston Street. And like I remember when I was in training camp and my first year with three other rookies, you know, we all hung together. We had one rental car and we drove it around. And we were in $32 a day meal money.

game and now the meal money is like you know 160 or 70 a day inflation though coach you know yeah and so so you you remember some of the scenes and some of the places that you were you know and it's and it's pretty cool and you know and like for me if I hadn't ended up in the right place at the right time being drafted in the third round by a team I I didn't even like Boston you know when I got drafted by it when I was a Sixers fan. But things happened for a reason, you know, and for me, you know, ending up with a team of Hall of Famers that I just won a championship was the blessing because I had a skill set that, you know, could keep me on the floor playing with all those guys.

And, you know, I could make some shots. So, you know, I got lucky and stole a few years. And, you know, that first year in Boston, I mean, if it wasn't for that, I don't know where I'd be now. Did Bill take you to a dead concert? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. How many?

How many did you go? Well, I went to a lot. Over the years, I probably went to at least 25 or 30. There would go. I told this story to the media the day Bill passed away, you know, 10 or 12 days ago, that in 87, I was still with Boston going into my last training camp. I had met my wife Donna on a cruise to Bermuda. I was with a Celtics group, and she was with a group of people from New Jersey.

We met. She was on her way to grad school in D.C. And I was on my way down to Charlottesville to work out to get ready for training camp. So I stopped at D.C. And the Denver playing at the Capitol Center. So I called Bill. In those days, nobody had cell phones or pagers or any of that kind of stuff. I mean, I had to find Bill on a landline, you know, which is like,

so I get a hold of them and I said, hey, listen, I got this girl we're going on our first date tonight. The debtor playing at the Capitol Center, I don't have tickets. Can you help me? He goes, listen, just drive up to the loading dock, walk down, knock on the door, ask for, for Dennis McAnally, who was their PR guy, and everything will be just fine.

I said, Bill, are you sure? I don't look like an idiot here. He goes, trust me, it'll be just fine. We're driving up pretty early. And I said, hey, we're going to, I said, I think we're going to go to this show. Yeah, I think so. Oh, okay.

So we pull up to the loading dock. I stopped the car and said, hey, just sit tight for a minute. She goes, do you have tickets? Just give me a minute here. So I walked down, knock on the door, ask for Dennis McAnnelly. And just, you know, and Bill said, tell him you're Rick Carl out from the Boston Celtics and everything will be just fine. So I went down and I knew, and I knew some.

of these guys. And so about 90 seconds later, I walked back up and I had a, I had a eliminated all-access pass that said Bill Walton on it in one hand. And the other one I had one that said, Susie Walton, who was Bill's wife at the time. So we had an unbelievable night. I mean, we were literally on stage watching the show. And during the intermission, wandered around backstage and just went in the, this room and all of a sudden we're sitting there's two couches facing each other all of a sudden

we're sitting on a couch facing Bob Weir, Jerry Garcia, and Mickey Hart during the intermission. And I said to Jerry, I said, I said Rick Carl out from the Celtics and he goes, how's it going? We sat there and shot the shit with these guys for like 15 minutes before the next, before the The next set. They were cool? They were cool? They had to be the coolest. These guys were so great.

It was funny because, you know, Bobby had just gotten a new guitar. And I had asked Jerry, I said, how long have you been using your guitar? He goes, I, I've lost track. He goes, it's been like decades. And, and Bobby goes, and, and Jerry goes, this guy's getting new stuff all the time. And Bobby goes, yeah, I'm a sucker for a guitar sale. you know. Hey, my dad just met him.

My dad met Bob Weir. He was one of the drummers. Yeah. You know, he was back there and we were just talking to these guys. And he was to say it was a good first day. That's cool. The other thing from Boston, obviously, as I mentioned, was the Larry Bird thing. And when I was younger and Larry was coaching in Indiana, I didn't have memory, like now as an adult in the media, I'd know exactly what his record was.

we looked at today the guy was winning 71% of his games in Indiana like really well regarded as a coach it kind of gets forgotten that he had that little chapter there and i wonder having played with him and having cross path passed him a few times when you've gotten jobs and that sort of thing did did you learn something from him watching him coach and why would he get out so early you know because he looked like he could really coach yeah you know we went in there I mean, this is another odd story. It was spring of 97. I was an assistant with the Blazers in Portland. Don and I were out of the movie. Came home, and those days, everybody had the answering machines. You pushed the button on the answering machines.

You guys are probably too young to remember. And so... We had them. Fortunately. Yeah, we listened to our teachers call home on the answering machine. Delete the message. I push the button, and I hear... hey Rick, it's Larry Bird, give me a call, thanks.

And I said, okay, to Don, I said, something's going on. Because Larry was not a phone guy. Like, I'd been to his house in French, like, you know, half a dozen times. And the phone would ring, and they would just act like it wasn't lame. You know, it was just like, he just talked out. He was talking to the pastures about being the head coach, and he was going to take the job. And so, you know, I said, look, so he called me up. He wanted me be one of his assistants.

He goes, look, I mean an offensive guy and defensive guy. I said, Larry, do you have any idea, you know, that you're going to have to, like, beg these guys to play 50 nights out of the year? He goes, listen, I'm going in there. I'm going to get these guys to play. I mean, we got, there's some good players there. And there were. It was, you know, both Davis's Dale and Antonio, Rick Smith was there, Reggie was there,

Mark Jackson, Travis, Best, Jail and Rose, a lot of good players. I just need an offensive guy and a defensive guy because I don't, you know, I know that I don't know anything about coaching, but I'm going to get these guys to play hard. So eventually I just, I said yes and went. And what was interesting was that, you know, what I learned from him was,

it was really the first time probably ever that there were really true coordinators on an NBA coaching staff. I was the offensive coordinator, and Dick Carter was a defensive guy, first time ever. And so when I got my first hit-joke kid coaching job in Detroit, I got an offensive guy. I got a defensive guy. I was going to do most of the offense, but I had a guy that was helping with it. And it just, if you can delegate to somebody who is talented and can do the work,

and can live up to the responsibility. It takes a lot off your plate as a head coach. So I did it for many, many, many years. And that was the biggest thing that I took away from Larry. Just, you know, being able to delegate and you've got to trust the people that you're delegating to. Speaking of, Jenny Busek is on your staff. What qualities does she bring to your team?

How much longer will it be before we see a female head coach in the NBA? I don't know how much longer it's going to be. I do think one day it will happen. She's one of a few women that is qualified. I mean, she's been a head coach. And the WNBA had elite offensive teams. She's now the only front of the bench coach in the NBA as a female.

Becky Hammond, obviously, is another female that is, is very, very highly regarded. You know, Jenny took on a lot of responsibility this year with our defense. She's a great communicator. She is from a family of doctors and psychiatrists and really, really interesting backgrounds. And so she has studied the younger generations to figure out the learning environments that work best. I learned a lot from her about that.

You know, the millennials are gone. Chris, you're probably a lot of you, right? Yeah, but. Yeah. So now it's Jen. Like dinosaurs. Now's Gen Z.

So I've got, my daughter is going to be a second year at Virginia. And so I've learned a lot from her about what that generation's all about. But Jenny has really studied it. And she has a wealth of knowledge there.

And so, but she's just got so much going for her. And she's a very, very important part of my staff as well. Talking about Virginia, it's a Virginia show. When you played at Virginia, I'm assuming you played Michael a few times, right? And I'm sure you remember what that was like, but you also saw him in 86 score 60-something points against the Celtics in the playoffs. and I wonder if you were surprised. No, no, no.

I mean, look, at Carolina, a lot of the guys in those days at Carolina didn't have gaudy stats. I mean, he was playing with Worthy in Perkins, you know, and Jimmy Black. I mean, these guys were all great players. And, you know, Dean Smith had them running stuff that, you know, had the ball moving to different people.

And, I mean, they had great balance. That's why they were so hard to beat, you know. But his ability, and, you know, I got to know Michael some in college. And then, you know, he and I both were in the same draft. Obviously, he was the third pick and I was the 70th. So, but played against him. I actually played against him for a minute or two in that game. And, you know, I.

I mean, he went 0 for 1, right? Yeah, 0 for 1. We dug that up. You talk about research. Nobody held him scoreless but you. You're the Jordan Stopper. How do you know about that, coach? Well, I won't advertise it because nobody wants to hear it. But it was a memorable game.

I remember he had 46, 63, so 63 minus 46 is what? 17 17 so 63 plus 17 is what's 80 yeah so somebody says you think he's going to get 80 the next game if he gets 80 I'll retire not on you though coach and so you know the third game we played those guys we started double team in him and making the other guys

shoot and all that kind of stuff and and you know and we ended up winning in three straight. I mean, it's a five-game series, but, I mean, that was crazy. And Michael had been hurt that year and wasn't even supposed to play in the playoffs. He played against the team's wishes. At least that's how the story goes. But, look, he's, that guy as a competitor and a player, I mean, I just never seen anything like it. And 40 years later, as we get coach out of here and mindful of his time,

The 2024 draft, you have three second rounders. Will you be taking Brony James at 50 or 51? Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that he goes quite a bit higher than that. Wow. Okay. Sounds like 36 then. I don't want to get, you know, I've been fine enough this year during the playoffs. All right, good.

That's good. We got that other way. This is the last question. and it is LeBron related because I think about you and your unique front seat, you know, to see MJ in college and, you know, in 98, it's just years. This guy won't go away. And then LeBron comes along in modern basketball. And you guys are entering that series playing this team that said what it's going to do.

And if it's not for you guys, I don't know. They might do it. It just felt like you guys were like everybody's favorite team because everybody wanted to see the villain go down. You go into that series. And I wonder inside those meeting rooms, in football, we always say, if we can do X, we got a shot. What was X for you guys? And was it all LeBron-centric? Or was it something that people don't think about in that series?

Well, you know, interestingly, when you go to the finals, and I've been to the finals quite a few times with Boston. And we went one time when Larry was the head coach in 2000. and, you know, the stage is such an elevated stage. I mean, there's so much going on with the media, the games are spaced differently. You know, you can feel the difference with national TV and stuff like that. And so, you know, and Chris, you know this, being a high, high, high level athlete to play a lot of big games. you know, when you're involved in a competitive thing like the NBA finals, you know, physiologically, you know, you change.

I mean, your saliva tastes different. Your sleep patterns change. Your appetite is different and stuff like that. And so what you learn, what you learn about all that is that in that state, you know, the, you know, the human experience, your body and mind are absolutely alive. And in that state, you have the ability to achieve beyond what you may have believed possible if you are process-oriented and have a very simple process. And so for us, you know, and I talk to the team about this exact thing,

you know, about how they're going to feel different and what it felt like and what I meant, and how we were going to simplify and have a process that was one that would give us a chance, as you say. You know, and so it was two things. We were going to be the most persistent team defensively. And if you look back at those games and some of the photos and stuff like that that came out of that series, Jason Kidd who was 37 or 38 years old, was picking up LeBron James full court and turning him.

And we were going to dictate tempo as much as we could. We were going to not let these guys just kind of mosey on into what they wanted to do. I mean, they had three guys that were, you know, I mean, beyond elite. So defensively, it was persistence. And offensively, we were going to attack. We were going to play fast. We were going to move it randomly. And when we got great shots, we were going to attack those shots.

And look, and I just told, look, don't even think about the ending of the series. Just concentrate on those two things. And we will give ourselves the chance that we need. And that's exactly what happened. And, you know, in game six, you know, we lost game one pretty bad. We had a pretty crazy comeback in game two, down 15 with five and nine. half minutes came back in one game three we lost at home game four we won at home game five we won at home a little more convincingly and then game six um you know we went back to miami and in those days

it was two three two so when you came home for three games it was i mean it's tough to win three games around the finals you know it i don't know if there's any team that's ever done it um but at the end of game six in the last minute, we're up 10, you know, and then it was over. It was like, wow, I can't believe this. So far, I can't believe it's over. Because we were, we were just, we were immersed in those two things. So, you know, that's, that was the plan. And, you know, we did strategically, we had to do some unique things. You know, we played zone because we just couldn't match up against Wade and James and Bosch the way that, you know, certain other teams could. But it was a mindset.

There was an aggression and a persistence. And it was our time. You know, we had a veteran team that was really tight, really close, really together. And those guys, you know, we found a way. And it was, you know, it was a beautiful experience. That was about as fun time as I had watching basketball. That era was unbelievable. Yeah.

And that series stood out. And there are only 30 of these. jobs in the world and this guy's had one for the last about 25 years. Yeah, he's doing something right. And so we hope you come back, coach. We really appreciate the time. It's so interesting. We don't get to talk to a lot of basketball coaches, period, let alone one of the winningest coaches of all time. So Rick Carlis, appreciate the time, brother. All right. Thanks, guys. Enjoy it. Take care. Anytime. Great to see you.