Green Light with Chris Long - Ricky Williams! On His Life In and Out of the NFL, Stepping Away From the Game, Dealing with Injuries, the Media & Labels.

Episode Date: July 6, 2021

(01:48) - Welcome. Chris in Montana. Ricky Williams Preview. (07:15) - Ricky Williams on being ‘ahead of his time’, leaving football for a year, ‘Run Ricky Run’, his relationship with cannabis, his time with the Saints, Dolphins & Ravens, astrology and finding happiness. Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42 Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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risk-free, $500 sports bet. Download the win-bet app, now or visit w y n n bet.com download bet win and let's get after it terms and conditions apply must be 21 or older and present in state where win bet is available gambling problem call 1 800 270 7117 and it was one of those moments where it just dawned on me one day where you know i was like i have enough money i feel good about what i've accomplished and I realized that I could walk away. Right.

And it just dawned on me and I was like, oh, it was a scary thought, but it was empowering. Hello and welcome to my back porch in Northwest Montana. I am on vacation. This is a voice note. I'm not working right now. But the good news is I have a tremendous interview banked for you with Ricky Williams and you're about to hear it.

But first, Do you hear those crickets? It's like the perfect cricket volume. Back home right now, cicadas, screaming. Nothing of the sort here. Just cool, dry air, quiet lapping of lake water down the hill from me. And a bunch of big-ass pine trees. And now I got to do this voice note to set the stage for a Ricky Williams conversation

that I had about 10 days ago. I love Ricky Williams. I've been on his pod now, and he's been on mine. He did not disappoint. I think when there's a folklore about somebody that builds in sports or in culture,

like popular culture, you just hope that person seems authentic. And sure, he was authentic and as advertised on his podcast and in the podcast that you're about to hear. But what's really cool is I had a bunch of teammates that played with him

that I had never really like asked their opinion of Ricky Williams and lo and behold, reached out text pretty much all of them, preparing to interview Ricky a couple weeks back, had never seen Run Ricky Run, had never met him before.

His teammates all loved him to a man said he was great dude as advertised and a few of them said you would love him and I figured I might So really fun conversation. We talked about a lot of stuff. Ricky, you know, he's just lived like five lifetimes, I feel like, and we talked about as much as we could. Hope to have him back again.

Really cool dude, fun to chop it up with. As I said, him up here in Northwest Montana, I'll be here for a little bit. Macon will be running point in Studio, Studio J, I should call it, the Flavor Station. He will be there for a lot of these pods. a lot of these pods I'm going to fly solo. I'm going to record opens from my back porch here and I'm going to serve you killer interviews and I got a couple lined up over the next month or so that I think you're really going to like. Some are out of left field. Not today though. Good old football pod with a twist of life. Ricky Williams. I consistently trashed the fuck out of this

pod. I'm like, I don't know why y'all like it. I think I said to Macon the other day. I was like Makin went to see some fireworks and he texted me. I was like, dude, a lot of people listen to this pod because Makin hasn't been out in public in a year. And I go, that never really surprises me. It's just how many people listen to the pod and actually tell us unsolicited that they like it. But I got a major lift this weekend.

I had had a really rough 48 last week. You know, a lot going on. I was packing the family up, getting ready to go. I was behind. I hated our podcast the other day. It's tough when you don't have a guest. You know, I think sometimes you guys like that stuff, but not me. You can listen to ourselves talk for 90 minutes.

It sucks. I was wiped. And I didn't really like work when I got here. And I kind of was like, you know, oftentimes you get on vacation, you're like, this feels good. I could OD on this. Like, I could absolutely just cut communication off with the outside world. It's a romantic idea, but here I am on my back porch podcasting 1130 at night.

But I say that to say, I run into a guy in Safeway here in Northwest Montana, in Pulse in Montana. I run into a guy in Safeway, shopping for groceries the first day, getting ready to stock the fridge. And I round the corner in like the vegetable aisle, and a dude's like, hey man. And I'm like, ah, it must be an old friend or something. so I, you know, stick out the nucks to do a, you know, shoot a pound. And I'm like, it'll come to me, whoever this guy is. And he's like, Greenlight Pod.

And I'm like, you listen to the Greenlight Pod? And he said, yeah, I do, dude. And I said, are you fucking kidding me? You seem cool. What's wrong with you? Guy named Hank. So shout out to Hank in northwest Montana. Hank, I even ran into him two aisles over a little bit later.

We said like four goodbyes. because he's just such a cool guy. He listens to Greenlight Pot. I was like, this is great. I run into him in the beer aisle, and I'm trying to figure out what kind of local fare to sample. That's not like I haven't drank local beer here before, but, you know, you like to mix it up.

And Hank and his friends were hospitable enough to point me in the direction of a few local beers that did not disappoint. And then I see this cat pulling out of the parking lot, and he's got a fucking river raft on the back of his truck. And I'm thinking this guy's cool as hell. Likes rivers, likes Greenlight Pod. We have one thing in common. Here's Ricky Williams.

Y'all take care. And I'll talk to you Friday. So I got Ricky Williams here. I went on Ricky's pod last week. You guys have probably heard it by now because at this point, if you're listening, it's July. Ricky, that was fun, man. Tell me a little. Tell the people about your pod if they have.

haven't heard about your pod yet. Yeah. So my podcast, I call it curious questions with Ricky Williams and I bring astrology in. So I get my guest chart. I look at their chart and I make a list of questions that I, you know, that I'm curious about based on the chart and we, we dive in. And so the idea was to introduce people to astrology, but in a way that's, that's real life and getting, you know, my guest's reaction to certain astrological insights or ideas. He's laughing. He thought at one point in the interview, he was like, yo,

you're being sarcastic. I'm like, dude, I'm taking this dead seriously. It's just some of the things that you were saying. It was so, and I, I'm a skeptic in every way.

But like, there were, there were some things that were ringing true. What would we, I got the Venus moon? Yeah, you got Venus. You got Venus and Aries.

Yeah. And so we had some commonalities that we identify. Moon and Gemini. Yeah, the Gemini Moon. Gemini Moon. Gemini Moon. I'm working on it. The only way I was,

and you told me like you can be a cross between the two because it's not as simple as like, hey, my birthday is X, so then I'm going to, you know, be able to read Y. Right.

So very interesting. If you are walking around on this planet, you have a horoscope. And you should probably check out Ricky's deal because it was a lot of fun, man. It was great. And all these years, man,

like, it's funny because, and we talked a little bit about this last time we rap, but it was like, I've watched you from a distance for a long time and just really respected the way that you've carried yourself off the field and like the autonomy with which that you've seemed to operate. I know it's never that simple, but in my mind, I'm like, this guy does what he wants and this guy follows his heart, which is a really hard thing for football players to do. And it was just cool connecting with you. I think in a lot of ways you're, you are way ahead of your time. Do you look back at Ricky Williams wearing a helmet in the early 2000s for interviews

proving the point that you were trying to make and say, hey, I was really on to something even more than I knew. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly. I say that to myself at least five times a day. And I know from the outside, sometimes, you know, it looks like a person does what he wants or they're ahead of their time, but I had no idea what I was doing, you know? I was just trying my best to survive. I think the biggest thing for me is I had so many misconceptions about what the NFL was going to be like, you know, what my life was going to be like once I finally made it. And it was so different than what I imagined. I was just, I was in a bad way trying to, trying to adjust. And you had the helmet on why for the people who haven't heard the story.

Yeah. So it all started. It all started in the off season. You know, it all started in the first day of, the first day of, started in the combine. started the first day of training camp. We were in La Crosse, Wisconsin, and we landed in La Crosse, got off the plane, and there were a bunch of media standing there, and they had this magazine cover of me with Mike Ditka when I was wearing wedding dress. And so already there was this tension between like the media, you know, having certain ideas of who I'm supposed to be as an athlete,

but me having an idea that I thought once I made it to the NFL, it meant that I can finally be myself now. Right. But I was perceived as being weird or strange. And so I just didn't like that. And then first preseason game, I get a high ankle sprain. And so, you know, the first round, the first round draft picks, Saints traded all these picks. It just, it was tough. And so it was one day in training camp after I sprained my ankle and I wasn't practicing. And it started to rain. And so I had my helmet on because it was raining. And then they, it was time for me to be interested. And then they, it was time for me to be interviewed, so they drove me in a cart to sit on a bench

under this covered area. And as soon as I sat on the bench, someone yelled at me, take your helmet off. And I was like, I was like, you know, it was just like dehumanizing for me. I was like, I'm a human being.

Like, let me sit down and get comfortable and then I'll take my helmet off. And so at first it started off is this act of rebellion. Like, I'm a human being. And I, you know, like, I've earned the right to sit down and get comfortable before I take my helmet off.

And then it turned into, And then it turned into a greater act of rebellion because I kept feeling like there was another time I was wearing my helmet. And the reporter said, take off your helmet. And I said, why? Because that was really, that was my question. And she said, because we want to see your eyes. And I said, my visor is clear. You can see my eyes.

Trying to have a real conversation. And for me, the deeper point was the way I felt, at least, you want to see into my eyes, into my soul and ask me questions. but you don't even see me as a human being. So it was kind of this rebellion, but it was this protective mechanism, you know, that I'm not going to give away my identity and what's important to me to you

just because I'll get fined if I don't talk to you. The irony of all that, I don't even know if I'm using the word irony correctly at times, but is that you're sitting here, 10,000 yard back, so many amazing football achievements and anybody who I talked to that played against you with you was like amazing football player, okay? We all know that, but the reason people love you so much

is because of who you are off the field outside of that helmet. So do you feel like you won? Because in a lot of ways, like, again, the whole ahead of your time theme is like, you were the modern athlete trying to fit, in my opinion, and a hell of a unique modern athlete at that, but you were trying to fit a square pecking around hole. It's like they just weren't ready for that, you know, the pushback, like from us. you know what I mean and you push back yeah again I mean I was just was trying to survive and I

you know I went through this big identity crisis I mean I as this big article about me struggling with social anxiety disorder because right I was miserable I remember every day walking into the locker room just feeling like oh another once we got on the field I was great you know yeah just everybody shuts up and it's it's really about okay like who's here to ball but all the other stuff it was it was a lot it's a jarring place to walk into no matter where you've been in life and like no matter what your upbringing was you know like an NFL locker and especially in the old NFL where you walk in and there's a bunch of like grown men it's not like guys walking in now and like when I was in St. Louis I used to joke that like at the end of my career year eight I had the best

parking spot and that means that I was like the oldest guy I'm 30 years old like there were 15 30 year olds when we got in the league you know what I mean and so it's intimidating if you're not doing it right, you try to fit who you're supposed to be to like meet that expectation. Exactly. And I started to like unconsciously go down that path and I lost myself and luckily I got some help and started to find to find myself. I do in a second want to go back to how you got to New Orleans because it was such a unique football condition like or situation that that landed you there. but like Ricky Williams now okay removed from the game you look happy you you seem happy and happiness is fleeting and it's like a battle your whole life I feel like my whole life it's like how do I find balance how do I how do I achieve happiness how do I get to this destination and the

destination's never coming I guess is the is the sick joke but like do you feel like you've arrived somewhere at all or is it never about an arrival are you comfortable and happy in your life today? I think it's both. I don't think you, I don't think you arrive at the destination, but I think you can arrive on your path. And I think I've arrived on my path, meaning, you know, I feel like pretty much everything I do is meaningful, you know. And so it's regardless, you know, I don't even think of like a good day or a bad day because it's, you know, it's that feeling that, you know, after 35 carries, my body hurts, you know, I'm limping, but we want, right? And so it's worth it. And that's what I got used to as a football player. And I think I've

been able to bring that over into my life that I wake up every morning and everything I do, it feels like it's worth it. When it comes to that, the path you're on, not the destination, the path, where does football fit into that path? Where does looking backwards fit in that path? Because I think we really struggle, like, how proud am I supposed to be of my accomplishments? How do I look back in a healthy way? you know like how do i look back and be proud without like staying back there part of me you know and you do some football stuff i read so how do you maintain that distance that i'm sure you think is probably healthy yeah um that's a really good question so i think i think in general you know i think i'm at midlife now so i think in general when i look back i can i can appreciate that everything that's

happened in the past has prepared me for what i'm doing right now and and i think accomplishments are are tricky. I think accomplishments bolster your ego enough to get to this point. But I think now that I'm at this point, the accomplishments don't mean as much, but the training, right? All I realized that me being becoming a football player, me going through all of that stuff, just preparation for for what, what's next. And that's where I find, that's where I find peace with it. And that was an interesting thing that came up for you and me, like expectations when we were talking on your podcast how many guys have ever turned down the NFL how many you know I can't speak for people outside our sport but it's like when they come calling we just answer like I'm ready to give you if I can give

you 15 I'll give you 15 years that's whatever when I got in league and you talk to guys around you're like what are your goals I want to play 15 years in the NFL call me weird but I never had that goal you know what I mean like my goal was to be excellent at what I was doing anything I was doing competitive, excellent. Like if you meet a teammate, they probably wouldn't tell you anybody want to win more than me. But I didn't plan on being a life or nor did I need it for my identity. And I think that's a tricky thing. It's just because you're great at something, society tells you you have to do that and you have to live that 24-7. There are other things you're great at. They're just telling you that you're great at a popular thing. Do you know what I mean?

See, I look at it. There's two kinds of greatness. You know, there's that greatness that comes from more from your natural talent where you're great at it, but you don't really grow as much. And then those those things that you're great at where you're just learning and you just have this passion where as you become better, there's growth. And I think for me, football is one of those things that the athletic part, you know, I'm an explosive person. So I had that natural ability where I could grow was just understanding the game, you know, and really using my mind to analyze how to read the power play, you know?

Right. Which they don't run anymore. Right. When we're playing, you know, we're playing this defensive end. He likes the wrong shoulders, you know? Right. Maybe I might pop it out, right? He float plays it so I know the fullback will kick him and I can get up inside it.

You know, like just analyzing the game. But I got to a point where you can only run power against so many defenses where I just wasn't mentally challenged anymore. Right. And although, you know, on the outside, everything was great with football. Just internally, I felt like there were so many other things that I wanted to do and parts of myself that I wanted to develop more. And it was one of those moments where it just dawned on me one day where, you know, I was like, I have enough money. I feel good about what I've accomplished.

And I realized that I could walk away. Right. And it just dawned on me. And it was like, oh, it was a scary thought, but it was empowering. That is the scary part is the key word because for so many years when I played I was afraid of retirement. Like I was just downright afraid of it. I wanted it so badly. I wanted life outside of football.

And I think people also can't, people have a hard time holding two thoughts in their head that they think are opposing thoughts, but they're not at all. That I could love every minute of playing the game Sunday and bust my ass, but want so badly to experience something else. And I had this just sinking fomo a lot of times. and I said this to you on your podcast. The first time I saw Run, Ricky Run, was the last couple days, getting ready to interview you. And I was like,

get off my corner, man. Like you're on my fucking corner. This is, I wanted to go join the Peace Corps. Like, I was jealous of people that took a year off after college. Like, I just had this, like,

almost toxic jealousy, festering under all that, like, hey, I'm on top of the world. I play in front of 60,000 people. How about this hit of drugs I'm getting? Like, this is just pure adrenaline and I want to win so badly there was this really like there was this

unrest in my life and I don't know if I was too cowardly to do it but you did the thing that I think a lot of guys actually think hard about doing in their heart of hearts but they they're they're afraid to say it out loud because then people question your commitment to the game yeah you know what I mean the truth is when when I left I thought I was leaving for good but it ended up I was gone for a year. And I think it would be beneficial for guys, especially when they're getting to that point of burnout to take a year off. Yeah. You know, and I think a lot of guys, you know, had the opportunity this past year to opt out, you know, without a, you know, a penalty. So I think it's a good idea because I think when you, when you start, you know, like me, I started in seventh grade and went all the

way through until my mid-20s, I didn't have a fall. And so all that fomo of all the cool stuff that people got to do from the summer all the way until Christmas. What is August? Like, yo, until I retired, I was like, what is that month? Like, it's just, when you say August, I just think about those little, the water carts and like, you know, being sore and bruises on my forehead and the holiday. Yeah. Burn mark on the forehead.

Yeah. When we had the old styrofoam, the asbestos helmet, well, if you cut that helmet open, it'd be yellow inside. Now the guy's got these gel helmets and shit. They feel heavenly on your head. But that's what August was. And then the fall, people used to be like,

oh, I love the fall. You know, not that I drink coffee or that I'd like a pumpkin spice latte or anything, but people freak out over red leaves and shit. For 11 years, I hated the fall. Not because I hated football, because I associated with this grind

that was so hard for people to fathom. And then when you go away from it, it's really hard, which is one of the most interesting things about your break. When I retired for the first time and I trained to come back one time, it didn't work out. I realized it was going to be damn near impossible to get back on this horse mentally because once you're out, it's really hard. You realize the further you get away how fucked up that life is, right? And I don't know how you did that. You went away for a year

and then decided to come back. Like that's the thing to me that's what's amazing is you having the balls to walk away, but what's even more amazing is you being like, I think I'll come back to that super fucked up scene that made me miserable at times. Yeah. I mean, I got super zen in that year away. And so I came back with like, it's a totally different attitude. And it was a completely different experience for me, you know? And it was fascinating.

I'm glad I'm glad I did it. But the second retirement, I could feel it really quick, you know? Further I got away, I just started watching football games. And I was like, ooh. Yeah, dude. How about when you, I heard, okay, I heard you were a cameraman on the field. Yep, yep. Sure it was.

How did you get that opportunity? How did that idea pop into your head? ESP in the magazine, they do a photo issue every year. And I guess they knew I was into photography, so they reached out and asked if I wanted to shoot the Super Bowl. And it was, it was interesting because it was a year after I retired in the team that I retired from, the Ravens were playing in the Super Bowl. and it was in New Orleans where I started my career. So as I walked into the stadium that afternoon, same people that worked at the stadium

when I played for the Saints were there. And so it was this really interesting way to end, kind of walk away from the game, in the same place I walked into the NFL. Where were you when the lights turned out? I was in the north end zone sitting down. It's really difficult to show. shoot to shoot football because you have to you have to anticipate where the play is going to be

yeah and you have to be in focus and so it was a challenge i got a couple good shots but it was it was tough were other photographers like trying to strike up conversations with you and ask questions because that's actually interesting you put it that way is like you got to know where the game is going to be and you as soon as the ball snapped you have a good idea based on like what the guards doing is this runner pass. You know what I mean? And these camera folk, I mean, like as hard as they work and they master that camera, you have a different mastery.

It's weird, though. Like, they have a knack, even though they don't know football. They just have a knack for where the, for like angles and where the ball's going to be. Like I was impressed. I was asking them questions about like, how do you guys know this stuff? Yeah. Lots of process, you know? And then they're, you know, especially at the Super Bowl,

everyone's competitive for the like for the right, the right real estate, the right location on the field. But it was a really fun experience. I remember the first time I was hurt and I are and I went to watch the first game that I was in street clothes. It was eight years into my career. And I was standing there on the sideline and I watched one of the hardest hits I've ever seen. And I don't know how normal that would have looked to me if I was on the field.

You know what I mean? You got to be away from it to realize how violent it is. And I just figured you, when I read that, I was so interested to hear, you know, kind of your takeaways from seeing the game up close. like that. It was just wild. I want to go backwards to, you know, you getting in the league to set up this year away because it's so interesting to me. And again, I watched Run Ricky Run for the first time a week ago. You come into league in New Orleans in a totally unprecedented fashion. I mean, you're already a legend, right? You play at the biggest legendary school. You're playing a legendary

position. It's a legendary state. Like, just the elevation of like what football means in Texas is incredible to me. And you're like, the president. it comes to football in Texas for a period there. So they gave up an entire draft to land you in New Orleans. And I just wonder how much differently your relationship with football might be, had they not put you under such an unfair, you know, spotlight immediately. Like if you got drafted in the bottom of the first round on a winner and they didn't give up a whole hall to get you, would you feel any differently about ball your first couple of years?

Of course. Of course. You know, even if I would have been drafted a pick earlier by the Colts, you know, and gone and played with Peyton Manning. And, you know, my big thing is that I put so much pressure on myself. I don't necessarily perceive it from the outside. For me, it was really, you know, the people I had around me. And I think, and that's kind of my whole career. And to me, and the game has changed, thank goodness, that they really, they really, realize you can have talent, but it works better if you put multiple guys with talent around. Yeah.

You know, in, you know, in New Orleans and in Miami, it's like we played defense and then offense, they just gave me the ball. And so, you know, I didn't, I didn't have an opportunity to play with really an elite, an elite quarterback. I played with some pretty good quarterbacks, but I didn't have the opportunity to play with an elite quarterback. Later in my career, I split time with Ronnie Brown and, and I had a blast. you know i was more productive it was easier on my body and we were we were winning and so as the

game evolved you know my game had to evolve from being the the workhorse um to being just being more effective yeah it feels like your entire career you were just being asked a lot and like at a position where they asked too much of guys anyways i mean like from hey you got to live up to this like we're going to mortgage the whole future of the franchise for one player which no matter who it is i always tell people it's so funny when you're evaluating draft picks like you have to consider the context and people just don't do it but then to miami where wonstet is giving you the ball like 40 times a game was there ever a point where you and dave had to have a heart to heart about like hey man like you're killing me right now it's funny we didn't have that heart to heart until

two years ago, the Super Bowl in Miami. We were at an event together, and we finally had that heart to heart. Because the last time I talked to Dave before this was when I called them up and told him I was retiring. That, you know, that didn't go too well for him. But we had that heart to heart. And he said, you know, the one thing that I learned was that, you know, I need to trust the quarterback.

Do you think the days of workhorse running backs are like over can certain guys, like, you watch Derek Henry, are you waiting for the bottom to fall out? Not that you're rooting for that, but every year I'm like, he can't possibly do this again. Well, he's still young. So I think, you know, if he can, as he goes on, I think if they can split, find another back where he can split time. I think that can extend the quality of his, of his career. You know, I'd look like, you know, one of my best friends, Earl Campbell, you know, in the Hall of Fame, but, you know, only, only made it seven years in the NFL. But it was a, he dominated. dominated for those years.

And so, you know, for me, I was going and I was moving in that same direction until I retired and I came back. And, you know, the main reason was because no one could trust me. Right. But I was splitting time. But again, I was making the same amount of money I was making when I was carrying ball. It was taking better care of my body and I was happier.

So it worked out for me. With Earl Campbell's physical health, I mean, like, it's well documented. I mean, when I think of running backs that just gave it all and you could really, people talk about kind of how beat up he is and him being as tight as he is to you, did that ever place like, did you, no one plays scared. Okay, you can't play scared, but you can have fear, like a healthy fear of what's, what's this going to look like physically for me down the line? Especially you knowing people, me, I knew my dad.

You got a buddy like Earl Campbell. Like, it's got to be in the back of your head. Yeah. I don't even think it's fear. I think it's reality. And I think part of being young and part of what we do is we kind of have to live in non-reality, you know. And so it's funny you bring it up because the year I decided to walk away from the game, I was talking to the Dolphins about renegotiating my contract because I was, I had the previous year I led the NFL and Cary's separated both my shoulders. And I was just beat up. And so I started to realize I'm not going to be able to do this forever. You know? The reality of I need to. take care of myself and feel good about what I'm putting my body through for me to keep doing this. And then the dolphins came back with the, you know, what I felt was an insulting offer. And so I started to realize, okay, if they're not going to take care of me, I have to start learning to take care of myself. And my whole thinking started to change. Yeah, it's like,

it's the ultimate team sport. But if you could give a young player any advice, it might be look out for number one because nobody else is going to look out for you. And, and it's like, and And that's the hardest part as a selfless person to be a part of a team, but also look out for yourself. And like the guilt, like I heard you talk about this or like your rookie year when you had your ankle injury, it was so quick and you feel the pressure of, you know, what's been bestowed upon you and you're crying in the locker room. Yeah.

Like you can't tell me that person doesn't care. But that person also needs to look out for themselves too. And it's the disappointment. And when you get hurt, the first thing you do is you, all of a sudden, like, when I got hurt, I walked around the locker room, I walked in the building. And I'm a captain. And like, I'm one of the most popular guys in the team unless people secretly hated me. You see it in people's eyes and you start like almost out of self-consciousness or like

you think they're looking at you like you're just a coward. And I think that's the biggest cultural mind fuck of trying to take care of yourself in the NFL. Yeah. That's, I mean, you know, it was funny. the advice the advice i got before i got into the NFL from uh ironhead heyward he said he said if you're hurt don't play right he said because you might be 65 but they're going to look at you and always expect 100 percent and when he said it i was like i will never take that advice exactly but i get it but i get it i i understand i understand what he means it's it's true you know

and i and i say the toughest the toughest part of my opinion of playing in the nfl is dealing with injuries Because there's this where you always this question of can I play? Right. Right. Can I play? And if you think about these are guys that are paid a lot of money to train and are really good athletes. And I'm going out there at 70 percent, you know, somehow the adrenaline helps us get through it. But it's, to me, that's the most stressful thing about the NFL is like, can I, when you're hurt and you're trying to figure out, can I, can I play? Because nobody tells you what you can and can't do.

Like they take advantage of very naturally your drive to be like accountable to your teammates and to play through stuff. You know exactly what I mean. You're smiling because it's true. Fucking you're like the worst thing is when they ask you like, what do you think you can do? Like that's not my job. My job is to go until failure. It's your job as trainers and as coaches to protect me.

Like ideally, you know, like you tell me where the point of diminishing return is on me playing. expert but when they put it back in your hands of like of course you're always going to play yeah now i have an interesting story about this and i tell this story a lot in when i'm talking to people about astrology because there's an astrological core i love it dude i'm in bro let's yeah let's talk about it ricky yeah so so in astrology the planet of mars okay the planet of mars has to do with courage yeah and so when when mars is triggering something in our chart we have to face a fear Okay, or something's going to happen to us. Right.

And that's the story. So this was 2000 and 2007. 2007 and I was suspended for a year and then I failed the drug test to get back in. And so my suspension was like a year and a half. And so I was reinstated week 10, okay, week 10 of 2007. And at this time, the dolphins were 0 in 10. Okay. Oh and 9.

Oh, and 9. I don't want a game. I came back, practiced for a week, and we were going to play the Steelers a Monday night. Okay. And so, of course, I was like, finally, you know, a year and a half away, I'm finally back, you know? You know, I practice. Got a lot of reps that week, and I was ready to go. And so we fly into Pittsburgh, and it's pouring down rain, pouring down rain.

So we go to the hotel, the whole next day, it rains, right? We go to the field, and there's like two inches of water sitting on the field. It feels so bad that we can't even warm up. That feels bad anyways. Yeah. And so this voice is telling me, you know, I don't think it's a good idea that you play today. Because these guys have been in training camp in 10 weeks. I practiced for a week after a year and a half off.

And this field is crap. So I, you know. And so I told myself, okay, I'm going to go in there and I'm going to tell Cam that I'm not going to play. You know. And so I walk in the locker room and I go up to him. He's like, you know, how you do? How you feel? And I chikined out.

You know, I said, I said, I'm ready to go. Okay. And then, you know, the first play of the second quarter, we run, you know, a little trap. James Harrison comes off, like, hits me, you know, the ball pops out. And I'm on the ground, and I'm pushing myself up to go after the ball. And Lawrence Timmons steps on my back and tears my peck right off my humorous bone. And I had surgery the next day and missed the rest of this. But I knew, right?

I knew, but I chicken down. I wasn't courageous enough to tell him, I'm not going to play. And sometimes I think taking care of yourself requires courage. I remember that is one of the most bizarre unlucky ways to get hurt coming back week 10. I mean, I remember the play. It's just like my brother came back and just got hurt in OTAs and he's out for a while and he had surgery. And it's like all that hard work that it takes to get back on the horse just for that to happen. I mean, it's got to been crushing.

Yeah. But I think, I think, though, there's a wisdom. There's a wisdom that we can play a brutal sport like this or we can do things that are intense. And if we listen to that inner guidance, I think we can, we can stay safe. But what overrides that, you know, are these ideas about, you know, team first. But I think in order to do team first, you got to be whole. And masculinity. Like, hey, you know, the thing about our game is not only pressure packed,

I don't want a pigeonhole like the NBA, which is it's a tough sport, like it's physical and that sort of thing. But the first thing you think about is if somebody's not good at it, they're not a wimp. They're not like less of a man. They just don't have a good jump shot. Or like, you know what I mean? Like if you're not good at football, there's almost like a masculinity thing that's tied up to it. So I just think the whole thing, it's interesting you illustrate that the bravest thing you could have done would have been to face Camp Cameron and be like, hey, coach, I'm sorry. And I know you're disappointed.

I know you're disappointed with me, but look at that field, dude. It's week 10. These guys have been out here just like, and I know exactly what you mean. But that's interesting because you say facing fears. Ricky Williams at 44. What are you afraid of? Honestly, the only thing that really scares me is that sometimes my wife gets in a bad mood. that she's not come on man you're not you got nothing like sharks snakes dying getting hit by lightning

no no no no i'm honestly past that well well to the point of like if i'm afraid i'm just not going to be around sharks or snakes right okay yeah and if i am then i'm like okay i guess i'm supposed to be here and i'll just go with it that's an amazing way of going through with it this is an amazing way of going through with it. Okay, so, so you're the only rookie in New Orleans, which had to be weird, because you're dealing with all the stresses that we just talked about and you're at the lunch table. There's nobody to talk to, yeah? Yeah, yeah. You're the only rookie. Yeah, it was, it was rough because, again, we had a veteran team. So there's a lot of grown-ass been in there, and I walked in, you know, making just as much money as, as them and getting all the attention.

And so, you know, I think that's how it should be. You know, they were like, okay, you know, prove it to me. And I think the way I worked out, the way I trained, I proved it to him. But the season started, I was hurt. And then I was trying to prove it to him by playing with the dislocated elbow and playing with the high-angles brain, you know. Until that first season, I managed to, I, like, fought through, like, these difficult injuries. And I got to week 10, and without missing a game. And then I had a turf toe, and I ended missing four games. So it just was dealing with injuries.

Like I said, the most stressful part of the game. And up until that point, through college, you know, I had bumps and bruises, but nothing I couldn't play through. Fast forward in 2004, we've talked about and everybody knows your time away from football the first time. You make the decision right before training camp. You talk about another thing that took courage to really, I mean, I can remember year 10, I was close to retiring physicals day.

Like, I was in line for physicals. And in my head was like, yo, fuck this. No, it was year 11. It was my last year. And I just remember thinking like, this is the last place I want to be on the planet, dude. Like on the planet. And I was too afraid. You know, like, I was too afraid to just be like, hey, walk out of the building because that's what I want to do.

You did it in the primary career. Who was the first person you told? And what was their reaction? So if I'm being honest, I was a coward too. So here's how I went down. So it was, it was Memorial Day weekend. And I lived in South Beach. I had a place in South Beach.

I had a place in Fort Lauderdale. And I was driving and I was walking downstairs in my place in South Beach. And my concierge always used to bug me to go to parties. And I was in a good mood that day. And so I said, when's the next party? And he looked at me and he said, ah, he said, it's Memorial Day, weekend.

All the parties are over in Miami. It's too hot. So you gotta have to wait until November. And he said, the season is over. And I started thinking, the season is over. And I was thinking about my career and how my, my, attitude towards football was changing and it was kind of scaring me. And I started thinking,

is the season of football for me, is it coming to an end? And I was thinking, you know, when the seasons change in nature, it's natural, right? They don't, they don't fuss or fight. It just happens naturally. And I said, okay, what if I'm just shifting into a different phase of my life? And with that thought, I had this sense of like lightness and expansion and the kind of excitement. And then I had this like, this scary thought that said, like, well, what about your career? And what about your fame and what about all the money and the houses and all that stuff. And as I sat with it, I realized I don't care about those things. And it kind of shocked me a little bit, like, oh, okay, now, what do I do now?

And then I started thinking about, oh, I'd really love to go back to school, get my degree, and really, like, give back in some meaningful way. And that excited me. And so the first person I called was John Bianco, who's our sports information director at Texas, who's still there. I was there in Ozzy School and just one of my closest. friends. And at first he was like, are you okay? You know, he wasn't sure if I was, if I was being serious or not. And then he realized I was. And he was kind of in this weird spot where he wanted

to be supportive, but it was like so surprising that he didn't know what to do. And so I called a couple of other friends and pretty much it was the same response. And so in my mind, I imagined when I called my friends and they would be excited about it and they weren't. And so it started to get me to doubt to start doubting it a little bit. But I had, in my mind, I had made up, I was going to go. And so I started kind of going back and forth. And then the mistake that, the mistake that I made was I was really good friends with Lenny Kravitz personal assistant. And at the time, they were in touring in Europe. And it was that window after OTAs before training camp, you know, that month, like that month and a half before. Which doesn't feel like a

break. Right. Exactly. Dark cloud. Everybody else is having fun. I'm like, you don't feel this cloud it's training camp so i was in right and so i was at i was at i was in miami under that cloud number one time to imprompt to retire by the way is july for a player i was in i was in that cloud and she called me up and she's like she's like what are you doing i said oh we're you know we have a break and she was like why don't you come join us and i was like i can't and then i was like wait a minute actually i can't I got on they were a jerk

so I got on the next flight and men have been Zurich and then so I spent two weeks with them right and then I was like okay I could be doing this or I can go to training kids so that's the thing I mean the choice is clear

yeah it became quite clear yes I mean and here's the funniest thing and this is part of the reason I and this is a larger conversation about marijuana and that sort of thing but a lot of people have classically framed it as you chose marijuana over football. Is that true? It's kind of true, but it's not true. It's true symbolically

of meaning I chose a life that was more me than trying to fit into a box of something that wasn't. You actually chose Lenny Kravitz's assistant over football. But it's incredible. If you ever write a book, there should be a chapter called Lenny Kravitz's assistant. I can see it now. you're calling people. I'm so glad you said this because one of the things I was curious about with you is everybody was framing it like this guy's crazy because you were doing something that nobody does and like, oh, this guy's got problems because he's doing something that goes against the grain. And it kind of made me think about if somebody calls me with some idea that I think is bad shit crazy

because it's against like societal norms, they're actually maybe not going through anything. They're actually on to something. And maybe like has that has your process kind of affected the way that when a buddy calls you and tells you something that seems crazy? Like that how you receive that to give advice then? I've always been like that. Like when my friends or my family call me with the crazy idea, I'm usually proud of them. Yeah.

You know? Like, you know. I'm usually proud of them. And then I'm like, okay, like I just want to understand how they got there. And usually, you know, it makes sense. and I look at things from a different perspective. But yeah, because I realize, you know, my most rewarding decisions have been crazy, you know, where I trusted that crazy voice inside.

Somebody has to tell me why not, dude. Like, hey, literally, if you spell it out to me, if you can successfully illustrate to me why I shouldn't do this, then I'll listen. But if you can't, if all you got is like, well, other people aren't doing it, then I'm not crazy, dude. Yeah. And I just think that was interesting because, you know, there was the, there was certainly the marijuana stuff, which again, like ahead of your time. I didn't, when, when Dan Patrick asked me

after I retired about marijuana, I didn't in saying, yeah, like I smoked my fair share of it. That was my own way on national radio saying like, I fucking smoke every day, Dan. I smoke the man of the year here. Okay? Okay. So you can too and you can be a man of the year too and you can be a two times. We're like, whatever, dude. I wasn't saying it's setting out to be an activist. I was just being honest. I was living in my truth. And, and like, I also, I also feel like a lot of people apply realities to your life because you use a plant. Like, all of a sudden, that's who you are. It's not a part of your life. Like, all of a sudden, I had this identity, you know, and even the people that were supportive of me were getting on my nerves because they were like, hey, man, let's, let's meet up

and smoke a dube. And, like, you know, like, that's not my life. Like, yes, I like to get high, but I do a million other different things. And I wonder if there was ever a resentment with you when it came to people putting you in a box with that. Well, the resentment comes because I think it's overshadowed my actual football talent in what I actually did on the field. And that, that, you know, that bothers me because I think, like you said, most of the people that played with me or played against me

will testify that I played hard, that I was a talented football player. And they knew when they played against me, that, you know, it's going to be a long day. Right. And to me, that's what matters is my peers. But, but again, I think it's unfortunate that the story of me as a football player sometimes gets overshadowed by the cannabis stuff.

Yeah, that's how I feel about charity with me. There is something too like, hey, motherfucker, I was a 10,000 yard back. There's 30 that ever walked the planet. And I took time off and I still did that. If I'm you, that's my biggest axe I'm grinding is like, I got what I wanted, like that everybody sees me from me, but hey, don't forget, I could tote the rock. And that's how I felt about my skills. I mean, obviously, I, you know, I never joined the 100sat club, you know, maybe stuck around a while. But I do feel like at times I'm like, yeah, I know I'm like community

service guy, but don't forget, I could play. Because, you know, I think it's hard for people to hold both, right? It's hard for people to hold both. But for me, it's a beautiful thing. people called you an addict joe thysman said you were an attic when you went to play uh in canada it's just incredible how far do you blame people in 2004 like that might be totally different now in 2020 do you harbor any i watch people that sounded like idiots talking about you who are respected journalists i didn't blame anyone because i i understood i understood you know because part of me was feeling like the way that they were feeling about the whole thing yeah you know so i i completely understood but I also understood that I had to go on my own my own journey how did

marijuana what slot in your life did that fill like what why for you did you start using marijuana and then like as an athlete how was it beneficial to you how is it beneficial to you today Ricky the 44 year old dad yeah so I'd say I started really developing a relationship my senior year in college you know I came back my senior year year to win the Heisman trophy. And we started off the season kind of rough. I had like a really rough game against Kansas State. I think I had like 12 carries for 43 yards.

And that same week, I found out my girlfriend I just broke up with was with the quarter, was dating our quarterback. What? Yeah. So I was it, yeah, it was a rough,

it was a rough, it was a rough week and about the one that was playing. Yeah. I mean, I don't even, it was so bad. I don't want to go. Yeah.

The other quarterback who was starting broke his thumb. God. And so this other kid became the only quarterback we had. So he was the starter. And, you know, I don't know if I want to take this hand off from you, dude. Exactly. That, that's, it was, it was one of those. It was one of those years.

Okay. So it was, it was rough. All right. And my roommate saw I was struggling. And he was a smoker. So he was like, you know, he said, you need to just chill. And he said, here. And I'd smoked a couple times, but I hadn't, you know, I hadn't really developed a relationship.

And I remember, I just took two hits from the bong. And it was the first night, I wasn't obsessing about. the game or possessing about my ex. And we went to Blockbuster and got Blazzy Watched Blazden Saddle. And I laughed my ass off. And, you know, after that, back to back 300 yard games.

And so, I realized there's okay. There's something to this, you know? And I was kind of, I realized I was one of those, those guys that just takes things too seriously. Yeah. If I just chilled out a little bit, that things would go better.

And so it was really kind of, at the beginning of my adult spirituality of just realizing, okay, that there's, there's more going on, right, than just, it's not just about me. And so I think it felt good. It felt good to have to think bigger thoughts and to think outside of just football. And so I started to consume my free time using cannabis because I like the mindset that it put me in. And, you know, I remember those times where I'd come home after after practice and I'd smoke a little bit, then I started reflecting on my life and thinking, you know, how can I be a better running back? How can I be a better father? How can I be a better boy? You know, just and I really liked that. And it's something I wasn't

getting, I wasn't getting that quality of interaction in the football world. And eventually it got me to think about doing things other than playing football. And I think, you know, it led me to eventually to realize that I had an opportunity to do something else. And I, and I was able to to make that choice and my life would be so different if I didn't have that year off. I'd be a completely different person. That's so funny because I didn't start in high school or anything like that. I didn't smoke until my freshman year. And my first time, I always remember it.

There was a movie involved too. We were in Boise, Idaho for that fucking bowl game up there with the blue turf. And me and my, a couple of teammates will go unnamed. We just sat in the room and watched Bring It On. And I just remember thinking, my God, this movie's amazing. And I know the movie's not that good. But for me, there was a long break, though. To your point, like, I didn't have a relationship with it through college because I was so

afraid of getting caught and losing my scholarship or whatever it was. Like, I knew how to stay out of trouble. That didn't mean I pushed the limits. And I was a problem. Drinker. I was a college kid. So I was doing something else that I didn't realize that by the time you're 24, 25. it just doesn't fit you the same.

And you fight it and you fight it, but it just doesn't fit you the same. And here I am 36, I still like drinking beer. But I didn't start until I got in the league and I couldn't sleep. Like literally that's, it rescued me from probably addiction to sleeping pills, honestly, which so many people, I'm not saying it like I'm one of the only people

in the world who have been addicted to sleeping pills, something to get to sleep at night. But, you know, when you're chewing up lunesta's and you're doubling the dosage, it doesn't, it makes no sense. And I can remember my life changed the day I could start buying predictable good weed, which was another plus, like back when you were in college, like who the fuck knows where you're getting your bud from? Exactly, exactly.

Like by the time I was my eighth year in the league, we go for two-day trips to Seattle, like there are stores, okay? Like what kind do you want? Like, so things change for me. And I would say like just that, that feeling in July of I don't have to stop because I'm worried about the one drug test, which is so arbitrary in camp. And I'm not going to go back to the sleeping pills or pain meds or that sort of thing. My life was so bad those three weeks every year.

And just to get away from the game and be able to just be me, which includes that. You know, it's nice. It's funny you say that. That's how I got popped because when I was in New Orleans, it was every training camp. you know for the first couple things of training camp we get tested and then i got traded to Miami and they test o'tia's yeah and and no one no one told me so i showed that's a motherfucker dude are you kidding me showed up i showed up to work one day and they're like annual annual piss test i was like huh for what you want to see if i'm hydrated hey dude if they showed up like i'd be in a

panic like i'd be like you couldn't have told me i'd be done for the year that's the biggest thing for people that don't understand is and now the threshold is raised or it's lowered so now it's easier and essentially now it's you know but they would have a position group through the summer like every time we got together and they always

like I don't know about the running backs but the D-Ns were always at the end. It's like they made us wait they just knew they just knew we were the ones waiting we were the main ones waiting D-Ly linemen so yeah so we were just waiting and waiting and they'd wait to like two weeks into training camp sometimes

and I'm like sitting there, I need you more now than ever. And I can't. But anyways, I just think it's interesting because it's not who you are, but as a part of your life. I wonder, have you ever like said to yourself, I'm abusing this stuff? I'm using it too much. There's been times. Yeah. There's definitely been times where I wouldn't go to that far, but I'd say, why am I doing this?

You know, just just checking in. Like, what am I doing this for? You know, I think like anything, anything that makes you feel good can be abused. And I think just to be honest enough with yourself to check in, it's important. Yeah, really look yourself in the mirror and be like, are you not, like, are you not being productive right now because of something that you're enjoying a little too much of? Your mental health. I mean, that's something that like, you know, intertwines for me as somebody with anxiety, marijuana

helps with that. Somebody certainly, you know, insomnia, marijuana helps with that. As you, I read you talk about it was like almost, well, you go ahead. I'm not going to, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, I walk into the locker room in New Orleans and I, and I, you know, I I just was like, I didn't want to be there. And I just felt so anxious and uncomfortable around my teammates, you know,

and even worse, meeting fans. And I think a lot of it was, I just was hurt. I was hurt the whole time. And so my identity as being the best football player was completely taken away. And so I didn't want to be around. And I remember watching, watching television, there's a commercial for Paxson. You know, they do those pharmaceutical commercials. And then they list all the symptoms.

Oh, boy. And I saw the symptoms. And I was like, holy shit, that's me. You know, and so I called my friend and I said, I think I need to talk to, I think I need to talk to a therapist. And so she hooked me up and I started talking to this woman and pretty quickly she was like, yeah, you know, I think you could benefit from Paxil. And this is called social anxiety disorder. And for me, like my warrior mind went to, okay, I know what it is. I can like, I can deal with this. And from that point on, I started working on myself and realizing what I came to realize is that

I'm just a sensitive person. And as long as I understand that and I come to terms with that, then it doesn't have to turn into anxiety. When you left for a year, you went to Australia right away? I went to Australia, yeah. Was there a moment in your travels because you were all over the place out there where you just sat there on a beach or something or at a coffee shop and you were like, I'm finally alone?

Ah, there was. There was. There were a couple moments. So I had a moment in an Australian. And when I, when I, so after I retired, Dan Levertard, writing for his magazine and Miami Herald. And him and I were best friends. And so when I retired, he wrote like these really glowing pieces

about how proud he was of me, you know, being the athlete to walk away and all that great stuff. Okay. And it was a cool story, right? And I was like, all right, this is, you know, it's going over, it's going over well. And one night, Dan and I were on the phone. And we had talked about one day writing a book together. You know, and I said, and we were talking on the phone that night, and I said, you know, when we write the book together later, it'll be interesting to talk about the drug test.

And Dan said, what drug test? And I said, you know, I said, before I retired, I found a drug test. Then I called the NFL and retired. And he said, what do you mean? And he started to get like really anxious. And I didn't understand what was going on. He's like, I have to write this. And I was like, what do you mean?

I was like, we're best friends and we're having a conversation. And what do you mean you're going to write this? He's like, it's ethically, I have this information and I'm part of the media. I have to write this. And I was thinking to myself, like, no way, right? Until we get off the phone and sure enough, wake up the next morning. And the legend of Ricky and cannabis begins. Okay, it begins.

And so that, you know, that's, that's kind of how it all, that's kind of how it all got started. Golly. So then, so then you escape, you get out of Dodge. And so, and so when this happens, you know, first it was going over like smooth. And then this hits. And that's what all the story of pothead, Ricky, you know, quits. So everywhere on the media, like it's all that I'm seeing, you know. And so I'm kind of like, all right, I really don't want to go.

I really want to go out now. And of course, my friend calls and she says, you know, I'm going to Samoa next week. Would you like to come? And I was like, yes. So we went to Samoa. And then from Samoa, we went to Fiji. And we're in Fiji. And I was like, you know, Australia is just two hours away.

And I really love that place. And so I said, I'm going to go back. There's this lighthouse in this town called Byron Bay on the east coast of Australia. So I flew to Sydney, took a greyhound, a Byron Bay. and thought I'd be there for a weekend, photographing this lighthouse, ended up staying there for a month and a half. And, you know, about a month in,

I met this guy who lived in the swamp, this guy named Steve. And he was like straight out of a central casting, you know, just a very earthy guy who just loved plants. You know, and he even had a couple of cannabis plants. Most sweetest, most beautiful cannabis I ever, ever saw. This guy was like, he had this gift with just growing things, you know?

Like, he grew these papayas that were like twice the size of normal papayas. And he would, and he so he just knew all the indigenous plans. And so every day we would walk and he would just talk to me about the history of the plants and the history of Australia. And I think just with him in that relationship, I just found a place of peace. And, you know, I grew up a very religious person. And one of the things that Stephen had, he had a Bible. And he said, here, I want you to like read this.

And I was like, sure. And so I remember I started reading the gospel. And I came across this passage in Matthew and it said, basically, if you leave home and family and all that stuff in search of me, it'll all be given back to you a hundredfold. And in that moment, I had that sense of peace that I knew I was, I knew that as crazy as everything was, I knew I was at exactly at the right place, the right time where I was supposed to be in doing exactly what I needed. One of the hardest things about faith to me, I'm glad you brought that up, is like, you've seen everything. Like you've seen, I feel like every corner of the world as much as you could. And, you know, as you meet people, everybody believes in something different. So like, how do you choose one?

You know what I mean? And somebody's got to be right, which means everybody else has to be wrong. Like, that's why I don't buy into organized. I mean, like, I believe in a higher power. I'm faithful. But it is really hard for me. to talk to a preacher who says a kid in East Africa is going to hell because they didn't accept the word of God,

you know, because they're Muslim and their parents raised in the Muslim and vice versa. And just the way we, I don't know what you make of faith at this juncture in your life. Well, I think all the, if you really read closely, all the religions say faith has to be something that has to be tested, right?

That the only thing that you can truly know and believe in is what you've experienced. So all the scriptures say, you know, take what your parents teach you or what society teaches you and test it out for yourself. And I think that's how you develop faith. And I think that especially in this day and age, I think we need religion, but not organized religion. When I say religion, I mean the practice of whatever we believe in. And I think we have to believe in something and do our best to live according to those beliefs. And that's why I love astrology. because it gives everyone their own personalized religion. That's so interesting. And I'm just starting that journey, Ricky. The Gemini Moon, the 12th house is the giving house? Is the giving house?

Is the sacrifice? There we go. I remember. See, you were looking at me during that podcast. I was like, he's just not. My motherfucker, I listened the whole thing. Hey, when it came to Steve and, you know, like when I watch Run, Rikki Run, those guys you met in Nevada City, which you got to tell me how you.

you picked Nevada City. Yeah. Like, you seem to gravitate to some people that don't need anything from you. Why is that? I mean, it sounds obvious, but a lot of people don't. A lot of people gravitate towards people that are dependent on them. Yeah. You know, you know how it is.

Like when, you know, being a professional athlete, like, we become very sensitive to people that are, that won something from us. And so for me, it just became a thing when that was not there. It just felt better. And so I would gravitate, gravitate towards that because, you know, when someone wants something from you, they've already decided who you are and what you have to offer. And for me, like what I was as an athlete was great, but it was it wasn't what I had so much more to offer.

And so I just would gravitate to those people that could see something else, see something else in me, something deeper in me that, that I'm, that I was trying to find and I was trying to bring to the surface. It was just so funny. It was the funniest pairing of dudes in Nevada City. They run, Ricky Run, if you've seen it. They're interviewing these guys. And I'm sure, like, there was a moment where you meet these random cats and for the people that haven't seen it, I guess, Ricky, the first place you came back to when you left your world tour in 2004, you end up in Nevada, City, California.

And there's a bunch of dudes that just are regular as hell, just normal guys. You know, football fans, obviously, you know, but they just weren't, they seemed to accept you as a normal dude. And that's what you would play poker with these guys? What else would you do with these dudes? Yeah. So the way I got to Nevada City was when I was in Australia, I wanted to buy a big chunk of land. But, you know, the price of the land, they have laws where I had to become a resident of Australia.

So I went to the immigration office and talked to the attorney and they gave me the paperwork to apply for citizenship. So I went home, started filling out the paperwork. And at this page at the very end that basically was like, what's your skill? What are you going to do when you come here? And so I started going down this long list of occupations, you know? And I got to the bottom and I was like, damn, I don't have a skill. I need to go to trade school. Exactly.

That's exactly. And so I started thinking, what do I want to learn? And when I was traveling, this guy gave me this book on something called I orveda. and it just blew my mind. And so I thought, I want to study that stuff. And so I looked online to see if there are any schools in the U.S. that trained people in Ierveda. And I found that there was a school.

Like the semester started in a week and a half. And it was in this town called Grass Valley. And so I drove up there that next day to enroll. And it was like, I drove into the town. And it was October. So the leaves were changing colors. And it was just like this beautiful, like, idealic place and I was like, I didn't even know places like this existed. There's an old

gold mining town. And so I enroll in school and I started taking classes there and found this cute little cottage. I love that place. And so about a weekend to living there had to go to Radio Shack to get something for my computer. I remember Radio Shack. Yeah, my dad was in some of those fucking conversions. You were like, yours is in your Nevada City, which by the way, that little house looks so chill. Like, you know that, that feeling when you just feel like, I was watching and I was like, damn, that place looks amazing. It was. Would you have a Jeep outside? Was that a Jeep? I had a Jeep. I had a Jeep and a Hummer. Yeah. It was dope. Yeah, it was awesome. And so about a weekend, I went to Radio Shack and got Charlie, it was my buddy. Yeah. He was looking at Radio Shack. And I was like, getting something from my

computer. And he walked up to me. He was like, I think I know who you are. And I was like, okay. And he was like, he's like, you're pretty cool. And I was like, all right, things. So then I paid for the stuff. And I walked outside to my car. And he comes running and after me. And he taps me on the shoulder. And he gives me, you know, those old film containers.

Yeah. He hands it to me. And I'm like, okay. And I opened it. And there's like two buds in there. And I was like, okay. I was like, all right. Cool.

And he's like, I was like, this place is kind of cool. And so a day later, I took my hummer down. There's a river in Nevada. I took my Hummer down, it's off-road, awesome track, down to the river. And as I was coming back up, there's this guy on his bike, and he was stuck in the mud. So I got out and I helped him. I threw his bike in the back of the Hummer and took him to the top of the hill. And he said, thank you, man.

And he reached out and he, like, put his hand out. And there's a couple of the nubs. And I was like, I like, I like, I like this town. And I didn't know, but, you know, that area in Nevada County is one of the, you know, the biggest cannabis growing counties in all of California. like that's like in murder mountain area. Yes, it is. And in the town, the next town over was Grass Valley, right? And who knew? But they ended up in this town where I actually become a hero when people find out on there. And people literally are just giving me pounds of cannabis.

You know? Good good, good bud, too. Yes. Presumably. Yeah. It was great. It was, it was, it was great. And so it was just cool to leave the NFL and within six months find myself in this like, place where I was celebrated and appreciated for. And then you find yourself back in a locker room. And does it feel like the first day you're back? Is it like you woke up from a good dream? Or, you know, to be honest, like, we're warriors, right? And we have to, we do need time to get away and to relax, but that fire burns.

And the truth is, I wasn't say I was getting bored, but I knew I needed to eat. I needed that break to heal and to recover and to find myself. But I also had this feeling that the way I left and the way I left and the truth. I needed to come back and do it and do it better, you know. I needed to get my name right if I wanted to have the kind of life that I wanted to have. So I approached it as a mission, like almost as even like a spiritual mission that I'm going to go back and see if I can finish this and walk away on my own terms. Can you remember a veteran or a player because you're a vet at this time who kind of was an asshole to you when you came back? You don't have to name names.

What were there guys that were just like, dude, like you're not serious about this like we are? there was one guy and I'll name them because because we we know we we squashed it um but j feeley you know really yeah yeah a kicker no offense yeah i mean i was gonna say a fucking kicker but yeah i mean okay i'll say it a fucking kicker was giving you shit about like abandoning the battlefield yes yeah no we we we squashed it and we were once he got to know who i was i got to know me because he wasn't there he wasn't there when i left he just came after i And so, you know, we got to know each other and we were cool. But dudes, you know, like I wanted to, I think Jason Taylor was talking about you and like

probably felt good to hear some dudes who were like legit, oh, geez and guys that you might have looked up to approving of your journey. Yes. It felt wonderful. And because deep down inside, the guys, they understood, you know. And I think the biggest, the biggest thing for me was after that when I came back, I wasn't trying to be someone else anymore. Like people already knew that I was different.

And so I felt free just to be myself. And because of that, I think the rest of my career was so much more fun. It's amazing. You spent all this time worrying about what other people think about you and it turns out they don't give a fuck. So you might as well make yourself happy and look in the mirror and be like, oh, yeah, I like this guy. Yeah. Like it's, this is a day you just wake up one day. But the truth is even if they do give a fuck and write stories about it, that stuff blows over and everyone for kids.

Exactly. That's my thing. I told my brother this because the other day, because of his injury, I was like, listen, whenever you know, whenever you finish up, you're going to realize that all these criticisms and the praise alike when you move to whatever sleepy town you move to and when you go do your radio gig or your podcasts like me, when you're washed up like I am on this side of it, like you realize how quickly people move on and good and bad. So why are you spending any time worried about what people are thinking of you bad? Like, so. So I just, and another thing that was interesting, we were talking on your pot about was I could sense it and I was mentioning how relieved I felt like my, and here I am preaching about self-acceptance and I couldn't accept myself for 10 years in the league until I won a Super Bowl, like a, not the first one, the second one, okay? Like how much work do you think I had to do

to feel good about my career? But like, you know, but that year you, I guess it was 2009. And it just felt like the tone of Run Ricky Run, it was like, it was like, I'm good now, dude. Yeah, to come to come back and to rush for 1,000 yards, you know, while I split time most of that year. It was redemption. It was the same year that Run, Ricky Run came out. So it was just one of those special. I was the team MVP.

It was one of those special years, you know, those that, a year of redemption where I felt like, okay. And that's when the dolphins dropped the lawsuit against me because. I'd come back and I accomplished my goal and made it made it right. Do you think you'd get along with the, the Ricky Williams in that doc? Yeah, I do, because I think I would have pushed him, you know? I think I think I would have pushed him and I think he would have appreciated it. And I think that's one of the things that I learned about myself is I love,

I love to be pushed. Yeah, you got to be probably. I mean, it's like you need it. We were talking about how you need to be curious and you need. need to like be active in that sort of thing but you also need to have something to wake up to yeah every day like something to answer to that's what i loved about football because there was one of those things where every day going on that field there was an opportunity to get better you know it was a it was a requirement to get better you know a lot of guys didn't didn't step up to it but i loved it

i loved it and every day i walked out there i asked myself okay one way like how can i get better in one way today in 2011 you out of in baltimore this is the tail end of your career you've got Cam Cameron up there as your OC. Do you all get along? Well, I mean, he's a nice guy. He's a nice guy. I'm trying to say nice things. He's a nice guy, and so I'll be on it.

He's a nice guy, so he's easy to get along with. But he's also one of those coaches that's full of shit, you know? You mean 70% of coaches? No offense to the coaches. They probably tell you 70% of players actually can't play. Well, I'm telling you 70% of coaches are making shit up sometimes. Yes, that's what I loved about Nick Saving. People might say he's a prick,

but you knew exactly what he was telling you was the truth. That's the same way I feel about Bill. Yeah. Getting to play for him for a year. You know, like, I played for a lot of coaches, and actually you play for more than me. I did the whole list. I was going to make you see if you could name them all.

But, you know, like, that's the thing is you don't realize how much you appreciate the coach to shot you straight until you're done. You know, when you're in it, you want a buddy. You know, you want a buddy. it's not that you're willing to take a mile when they give you an inch but you want any like safe harbor you can get it's a really tumultuous time but then you walk away and you're like i really appreciate that coach that was an asshole to me sometimes as long as he was telling me the truth exactly you know so cam did cam lie to you before you went to baltimore he told you you'd play and then well you know that whole situation no it just was a situation where ray rice ray rice was was the was the starting running back when I, when I signed with Baltimore. And I was used to split in time. Ronnie and I split time. And when we got there, you know, Harbaugh is the kind of

guy where he put the whole offense on Cam. And so I would talk to Cam and Cam would say, okay, yeah, we're going to find ways to get you involved in the game plan. Because to me, it's not necessarily touches, but at a vet, I need to be involved in the game plan. Like I, even if it's like, you know, short yardage and some goal line stuff or a couple of plays on third down, with something so I know that like I have a role, you know, this idea of where it turned into whenever Ray got tired, then I would go and go in the game. And that's not what we, that's not what we talked about. And then when as we went through the season and tried to address it, he would say he would address it, but then Ray just would go up to him. I'd have a couple good, good runs

and Ray would go up to him and then, you know, you put Ray back in the game. So I just didn't like, I like coaches who see what's best for the whole team and don't count out to certain, to certain players. Did you have a couple years left in you, you think physically? I could have played two more years. Yeah. I could have played two more years. And as you're sitting on the sideline with the camera, are you like, damn, I just missed it by year, you know?

So when I decided to retire, I knew the, I knew the Ravens were going to go. I knew the Ravens were going to the Super Bowl. I knew it. Because there were certain things that I experienced in Baltimore that I never experienced anywhere else. Remember the first, the first, the second preseason game we played when I got there, we were playing against at the time the Redskins. And, and, like, we, we, they punted and we, our, our returner muffed the punt, okay? Right.

Nobody on the defense put their head down. Nobody had a look. They just got up and ran on the field. And I was like, wow. Like, I haven't been around a team that when, when things go bad like that, that they don't put their head deal. And it was, you know, and they had a saying, no hand claps and no butt slaps. meaning if you make a mistake, don't do that, don't do that.

You know, just keep it moving, okay? That was the first thing where I was like, okay, this team is special. And the second was we lost to the Patriots in the AFC Divisional Championship game. Billy Kundiff missed like a 20-yard field goal that would have sent us into overtime after Lee Evans dropped a touchdown back. Kickers, man, no offense. Yeah, yeah. So, okay. And so this is, you know, an hour after the game, we're on the bus after.

after, you know, Billy just missed the field goal. And Billy's sitting like next to me right here. And I'm just feeling bad for the guy. Yeah. The rest of the team starts to come on the bus. Okay, before the bus takes off, the guys are already talking about coming back and getting after it next year.

I knew with that attitude, I knew that this team was, I knew this team was going to the Super Bowl. I knew it. And so I was, I was at peace with that, you know? I was at peace with that. And I think, and I think maybe you can,

you can speak to this a little bit. bit. I think one of the hardest things to do for a veteran sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes is change teams, you know, because there's a certain level of respect, you know, and when you're at a place for a certain one, there's a certain level of respect that's a lot of to you and people know you and they appreciate things about you. And then when you're older having to go somewhere else and have to prove yourself again, especially for me when there's a guy like a really good running back, Ray Rice, in front of me. And, you know, it was funny after when I called John Harbaugh to retire. He said, you know, I think one of the biggest mistakes we

made this year was not getting you more involved. And one of our biggest conversations we've had is how to get you more involved in the offense next year. And I said, that's great, you know, but I was just at a point where there are so many other things that I wanted to do that it just couldn't justify sitting on the bench and dealing with that for another year. And it's so true, though, you nailed it because I told my, again, telling my little brother giving him advice when he's changing teams. I'm like, dude, just be ready for the fact that you're going to feel disrespected a lot. And it's not like the disrespect where like earlier in your career,

like you can take disrespect and spin it because you got 70 snaps. Yeah. Like if I get disrespectful, I take it out on somebody. You get disrespect and they're like, all right, you got 12 plays or something. You know, you get your little third. You know, you get your little short yardage. So what are you, what do you, like the first day I'm in Philly, they put me on the rookie field, dude.

I got more sacks than anybody in the village. I say this all the time. I'm like, that is, that illustrates to you what it's like being a vet. Yeah. Like, and if you can't handle that, you shouldn't stick it out and bounce from team to team. And I got to tell you, it's just me being real. I could not handle it. I couldn't handle being disrespectful and not having an outlet.

As you said it. Yeah, that's real time. I mean, and that was part of the reason I retired. Part of it was being fed up. But yeah. And just like, hey, I'm 33. I've done everything I want to do. dude, dude. Do I want to be walking around like my dad? But part of it was like, you know what, fuck this, dude. I just, the little things, you know what I mean? And they add up. And I wonder if Baltimore felt a lot the same way to you.

I'm telling you, for me, the last straw was we were playing, I think we're playing Cleveland. And it was, it was like four minute offense, right? It was cold. And Ray, and Ray came up to me. He was like, all right, you go in now. I was like, I looked at our running back. I was like, get your ass back in the game. when they put you in in four minute on defense at the end of a game, I'm like, I don't mind because I kind of missed taking the anger out like on first and second now because they made me this like situational guy. But you're like, you kind of look at them with the ultimate side eye, dude. Or like if you'd be out there too late in a preseason game, bro, I remember my last season in St. Louis, and this was my people, dude. I had been on IR for a year and a half.

I was just on IR one year, bro. I could tell they were ready to cut me. They had me in the fourth quarter of the third preseason game, bro. I'm making plays getting up screaming. I'm screaming at the coaches, not like excited to make the play. It fucking sucks, dude, getting old with the NFL. Yes.

And it makes you feel old. And I think one of the reasons guys really struggle after football is it is reinforced to you over and over again at the tail end of your career that you are scrap metal. I think the way you get out is so important to your confidence in what you do next. So important. And just, you know, like how positive you can be.

because if you, I am still grinding axes from when I played and I had this storybook career in a lot of ways and I'm saying that like trying to be positive. I'm not saying I'm anything special but like a lot of people would say Chris man golly dude look at all the things you did Ricky look at all the things you did but I know me personally I'm still grinding axes and I went out on my own I went out the one you know older guys will tell you you can only leave the game in a couple ways on their terms you know because your body broke or because you got out on your terms and like so few people do that so there is something to if you can walk away on the third way like you're going to be a healthier person because you're not going to be a spiteful

exactly so true i think that's probably the most underestimated thing and when i came back i told myself my goal is to have an indefinite NFL career that i get to choose i get to choose when i get to choose when i walk away and uh can i think it saved my confidence because i think it hurts when you want to keep doing something and they tell you no and the game to You feel it's a whole thing of like, how much can I use the game? They think I'm using me, but I'm using the game. Yep. You know, and in the end, they're using you, but like you can kind of spin it in your head.

Last couple questions here, Rick, and I'll get you out of here, buddy. The future, like you're 44 years old. I assume you feel pretty good, like the head trauma stuff. You played the most physical position when it comes to this stuff. I mean, like, I worry about my buddies that, you know, like my buddy, Stephen Jackson. I'm like, I watched him tote the rock like 40 times a game in obscurity. I'm like, are you afraid of that kind of possible ticking time bomb that everybody counts as like, hey, when you leave the game, you heard these horror stories.

This is what's going to happen to you eventually. You know, I think I've come to terms. I've come to peace with it, you know, and I think I think the advantage of coming to peace with it is I won't be in denial. So I'll be present with it as it, if it occurs, as it occurs. But, you know, and I think what we. did is a you know it was an intense thing and yeah we did damage to our body but i've done a lot to do everything i can to take care of my body and so if i go down that that route you know hopefully i i do it with dignity you know and yeah and the the joke i told my kids i give is if oh boy here comes something

morbid as fuck the joke i told my kid is just you know it's just keep telling me i i i i i you know, that I took my medicine already. Hey, man, listen, I think you got to be able to laugh a little bit about your own circumstance. That doesn't mean you're taking the whole thing lightly. But another thing is, like, if you spend all day believing that it's a certainty, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm not saying that like, but if you think you're losing your mind or you're supposed to, that can hang over guys' heads.

And it make it worse, you know? And I think part of aging is that I think part of aging is that you lose your memory because you realize certain things just aren't that important anymore. Selective. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think it's healthy to lose your memory to a certain extent as you get older. That's what you earn. We've earned the right.

We earn the right to lose a little bit of memory. What's on your bucket list? Do you ever get frustrated that you probably can't do it all in you said you're halfway 88 years? Yeah. So my bucket list, and I think I'm going to do this in the next year or so, but is really spend more time in Africa, you know. Come with me, dude. Let's go to, let's go to Tanzania.

Come climb Kilimanjaro with me. Don't say no. I'm not. I mean, if I'm saying this, like, how can I? Yeah. That's really my time, you know, time and really like just, just connect, just connect to the, to the homeland. It's really, I feel really drawn to do that.

Awesome, man. Well, Ricky, I think we could talk another six hours, so I'll get you back here another time, man. Please. Yeah, dude, a lot of fun. And check out Ricky's podcast. Give us one more plug for the pod, man. Yeah, curious questions with me, Ricky Williams, check it out.

And hopefully I'll get them up on the mountain now. I feel like we might have something in the works here. So Ricky Williams, a lot of respect, bro. Thanks for kind of paving the way for guys that just say what they feel. Yeah. Well, thanks for saying what you feel. I think that interview with Dan Patrick was a big deal. Do a little bit we can, man.

Thank you, bro.