Green Light with Chris Long - Ryan Clark! Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh Steelers & Bill Belichick Stories!

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Ryan Clark and Chris Long talking ball. The fellas chop it up and cover a number of NFL and sports topics. Ryan gives his opinion on Pittsburgh Steelers' head coach Mike Tomlin's career, the Steelers 2025 outlook and name NFL stars to specific superlatives like 'Most Underrated' and 'Freak of Nature.' The guys also cover the current sports media landscape, Ryan's ESPN career and Pivot podcast, time with Bill Belichick at Inside the NFL and talk about the pressures of their sons' playing football with NFL fathers. (00:00:00) Intro (00:10:28) Pittsburgh Steelers & Mike Tomlin's Career (00:23:00) NFL First Takes (00:39:15) Ryan Work Habits (00:43:30) Inside the NFL (00:53:45) The Pivot Podcast and the NFL Media (01:16:40) Sons Playing Football Bryan Braman's GoFundeMe can be found here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/donate-to-bryan-bramans-healing-journey Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ Also, check out our paddling partners at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Appomattox River Company ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. Green Light's ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where you can catch all the latest GL action: Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Uh... Yes, he is? There we go. Did you know this about Chad? That Chad was a stripper in community college, a male stripper. Shut up, man. Chap was not a stripper, bro. You know what he said his name was?

His stage name? What? Twigs. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, he is, bro. Here's the thing, though. He does everything. He ball searches.

He rushes. He plays the pass. Like, it is a different level of, linebacker play when you watch him than when you watch anybody else. James Harrison might have had a TikTok, right? He had been waylisten, but he might have had social media. Hey, he might have been in the middle of the logo with Juju. No, I don't think so, dude.

Welcome to the Greenlight podcast presented by BetMGM. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use Bonus Coke Greenlight, and you'll get up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code Greenlight. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game. If that bet loses, you will receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets. Just make sure you use bonus code Greenlight when you sign up. Welcome to the Greenlight podcast.

Thank you for jumping in today. We have a great episode. Chris and Ryan Clark talking all things football. Not only did they talk about. about what's going on with the Pittsburgh Steelers and Mike Tomlin's legacy, along with a few storylines around the NFL, but they get deep. They talk the pressure of their kids playing football as sons of former NFLers. They talk NIL and high schoolers already having deals when they get to college. They talk sports media and the pressures that come with it, Ryan Clark's pivot podcast,

and stories with Bill Belichick from inside the NFL. A great conversation, a whole lot of football, and a whole lot of fun. Enjoy it, and we'll see you later this week. Welcome to the show. Just wrap 90 minutes with the great Ryan Clark. Steelers fans, if you're here, you know Ryan Clark. NFL fans, if you're here, you know Ryan Clark. TV watchers, if you're here, you know Ryan Clark. Shit, I don't even watch TV, and I feel like I see Ryan Clark on my TV all the time.

But that's my buddy, man, me and Ryan, got a chance to work with each other. and inside the NFL had a great time. I was a desk populated by Ryan, myself, Chad Ochosynco, and I don't know if you've heard of him, Bill Belichick. We'll share stories about that whole deal. We'll talk about the pivot. He's built a hell of an empire there with Channing Crowder and Freddie T, Fred Taylor,

all-time great running back, all-time great person too. They got a good group over there. to Alicia, the whole gang. This is slow news day. So it's a good time to call up a friend and just BS a bunch, which is what we mostly did. But we do get down to some NFL with the Steelers and a couple games. We're going to play involving player names and adjectives. So hang in there for that.

Hey, this thing I love about the off season is, you know, on day like that, Like today, I can do a 90 minute pot with a buddy, and a lot of it would just shooting the shit. And you can't say, hey, you should have talked about that because there's nothing to talk about. There is one thing that I regret having to talk about. Not the person, because I love talking about this person, but what they're dealing with. Brian Brayman, former teammate of mine, he's battling cancer right now. um 2017 eagles team

he was a special team's ace just uh just a just a beauty dude this guy was uh he was a great teammate and um and a hell of a guy still is and I know he's fighting his ass off

um haven't talked to him in a couple years but but this kind of this kind of popped popped into my um somebody that sent me a text about it And this shows you how far you can drift from the team you were on, right? Like, we keep in touch a lot and that sort of thing. But, you know, the B gosh you hadn't heard from it a couple of years.

And then in a situation like this, you hear about them and you hear something terrible. Like, hey, your old teammates got cancer. And I'll tell you what, cancer picked the wrong guy to fuck with. Brian Brayman is a bad boy He was like I said Special Teams guy 6 foot 4 Hair down his back You know look

Look like One of these biker guys man In fact I think he had a motorcycle But Brian Brayman was a great teammate And a badass And And I don't know if he listens to podcasts

And again I haven't talked to Brian in a long time I haven't really seen Brian since You know like I said you win a championship with a group of guys and you go your separate ways. You might get the ring ceremony. You might get the parade, but a lot of those guys I haven't seen since the parade

or since the ring ceremony, and that's just the... It reinforces how lucky you are to be in a locker room with people when you're in the locker room with them because once that team breaks up, you know, there's no team anymore, but we can still be teammates for each other.

And I hope that people listening, Philly fans and that sort of thing, will click the link in the show description. it's the go fund me for his cancer treatment. Brian was the guy who delivered the speech at the Super Bowl in Minneapolis before the kickoff. The last guy that gave a speech, Brayman. And I can't share the speech verbatim because it was a little bit PG-13 and north of there.

But anybody who was in that locker room remembers that speech, He was hell on wheels running on the field on kickoff. He would do it all. Just a great locker room dude, great special teams player, and a great teammate and a badass, dude. I hope Brian knows how many guys are talking about him, or reaching out, you know, asking about, we're texting each other, hey, have you heard anything about Brian?

And that's how I came about this, GoFund me. So if you're an Eagles fan, if you're a football fan, check this out. Listen, there's a lot of people in this country you shouldn't have to pay so much for medical coverage and it just goes to show that you can play in the NFL and still need help. Love you, Bri.

If you do hear this, all-time teammate, one of the guys I ate breakfast with after the Super Bowl, I've just little memories like that where you're like, you know, it's such a blur playing in that game, but you remember little things like who you sat next to on the bus on the way over, you know, who might have been your seatmate on the plane home and, you know,

as the smoke cleared the next morning, we're all just trying to get some breakfast down in the cafeteria. I remember I sat with Brian Brayman and two other guys, and, um, you know, it's just crazy to think, it's crazy to think that somebody that you spent so much time with who was such a,

just a pillar of health. It just seemed indestructible would be battling something like this. But again, that cancer's got a battle on its hands too. So Brayman, if you're out there, love you dog. And I know everybody's asking about you. Kick this thing's ass. Go get it done, champ. I wanted to shout out Brian Brayman.

Former Houston Texan, former Eagle, just a fearless dude. So I'm sure he's battling his ass off. Um, without further do, here's Ryan Clark. Enjoy this. There we go. There we go. We didn't kidnap him. He's here.

He's finally here. I got, Hey, right, is this your first time on the Green Light podcast? Yeah, this crazy, right?

Are you fucking kidding me? First time, bro. See, I walked you right into that because now I got to come on your big ass podcast. I'm inviting myself on the pivot at some point. Well,

First off, you've been invited. You try to play like the, I'm not big enough rule. No, see, no, but I'm going to do something that's going to make me really famous in the next six months. And when I do, I'm coming on the pivot. I don't know what that's going to be, but I got a strategy. Okay, so you would do something big in the next six months. Like what? I don't know.

I can't say, but something big might happen. You know, you never know. I might get my big break and come on the pivot. But I'm hyped to see you, dude. We go from seeing each other every week to this, which is bullshit. You know what, though? It's like real football. It's like offseason.

Yeah, it is. You know what I'm saying? We need to work hard to make sure we could see each other. Real fast, this is Ryan's second time that he's gracing the Greenlight podcast. Yeah, there was another time. That's what I'm saying. What was the first time? It's been like three, four years, dude.

First time was September 4th, 2020. It was the AFC North preview show for that. The AFC. I was at my house. Yeah, you know what? It's almost like me and Ryan hit people in the head for a living. No, you know what it is, though, bro? We do so much stuff, though.

All right, into football. And I'm doing you a favor because I brought the quote, as your latest newsmaking quote, at the end of the season, and I only want to ask you about one of these people. At the end of the season, we're going to finally realize that both Aaron Rogers and Mike Tomlin have underachieved in their careers.

Tomlin, I see your point. I certainly do. but I just wonder like the list of guys with two Super Bowls if he'd have won the second one with you would you have said yeah different different conversation yeah if he yeah if he wins the second one it's it's also to you know how you say Aaron has got talent yeah I think coach Tomlin does he's got God talent it's Chris man this dude can lay something out that is so complex and make it so simple. And it was you never go into a game or I never left the game and said that team beat us in a way that coach Tomlin didn't tell us was possible. Got it. Right. Or we did everything he said would lead to a win, but we still lost.

Right? Like those things didn't happen. And the motivation was always there. And the other thing that to me is surprising is, you know, I mentioned Antonio Brown earlier, bro. He had, he has this incredible ability to allow you to be yourself within the team. Bro, Antonio, and this is just honest, he was not a good teammate. Yeah. Right?

but he worked his butt off individually. Coach Tomlin was able to say, okay, I'm going to box that and allow that to affect the team, but I won't let the negativity to affect the team on the field. And so I just expected that when we walked off the field, we were the last two people to walk off of the field after the Super Bowl 2010, 2011. If you would have just told me he'd never get back to another one, by this point, I'd have thought you were out of your mind. And I also said that, like, he still has it.

I just think he needs his Andy Reed run somewhere. Yeah. And that was going to be part two. I'm not framing it like you're saying he's, because I've heard you talk about him at length and how much you love Mike and who doesn't love Mike. I mean, like, he's universally respected, right? Right.

But I look back at it more as just like with curiosity as like an NFL historian to say, what went wrong from a programmatic standpoint. and the things that I could see that I could say, hey, this is fair, he certainly can be too conservative, right? Like he can be, I mean, he's Rush Limbaugh sometimes, okay? You know what I'm saying? All right.

So, but also, I think one of the biggest, and you tell me, you're the Steelers expert, because you played here, and I'm just, but not replacing Bruce Ariens and not replacing Dick LeBoe. Yes. Those two things seem to linger for me a while because I can stomach Ben. The first ring he got against Seahawks, supported by an incredible team.

The second one, that's all him. The third one would have been nice to have. But for him, I don't think of Ben is a guy who's like a two, three Super Bowl guy. Like, I think he's a Super Bowl winning quarterback. And he's probably a Hall of Famer at some point. He's a Hall of Famer. Right? He's a Hall of Fame.

Right. But I don't think of him. as somebody who's like, just because Ben's there, you're going to have a dynasty. Does that make sense? Like, there have to be programmatic things that come together. Yeah, I think it has to be programmatic things to come together. But you have to remember what Ben was with Levion and Antonio and Marquis Pouncy as his center. Like, I want to say Ben led the league in passing.

Right. At one point, with over 5,000 yards. And so, Ben, he became that, in my opinion. And what he always was was even, because, you know, we had the number one defense in the league in 08 and 2010. We went into the Super Bowl. That's right. But he became so clutched. Yeah.

Right. Like you look at that last drive against Arizona. We needed that. You think about the Antonio Brown big time throw, I think a divisional round in 2010. Like you needed that play. Like he always did that. And so you expected that to continue. I do believe.

And I can be honest, I never really thought about replacing Bruce Ariens and Dick Leboe. And what I'll say about that is those actually weren't his hires per se, right? We had Ken Wizz and Hunt. We moved to Bruce Ariens, who was on the staff. Obviously, Dick LeBow was a holdover from... You inherit Dick LeBow. From Coach Cower, you know. And honestly, picking your coordinators is a big deal.

That's a big part of it, right? Especially when you don't call plays, because he doesn't call defense for the team. And so, yeah, no, like you, I think if I, if there is a criticism of them, the conservat activism is a part of it, right? I think there has been some late game mismanagement, you know, at times. But yes, he hasn't found two guys on each side of the ball that has learned to excel in the most important moment. And the other thing I'd point to is not having a bin replacement while you still have it. Obviously. And at that point now, we're talking about it's crept up on us, but it's like it's been half a decade.

You know, and it's been a decade since you win a playoff game. And this to me is the area where I think he's underachieved, in my opinion, because, like, hey, when you're in the AFC in the 2010s, I mean, fuck, you lived it. I was watching a lot of it. But, like, that ain't easy. You come out of it with one ring as a head coach. and to beat Kurt Warner and the whole thing and down there in a shootout.

That's great and everything. But then to not be able to replace Ben, that's where I think, and I think he's also a victim a little bit of his high floor. Yes. You never get bad if you're always decent. Yep.

Bro. And so people got mad at me, right? So the whole thing with Aaron, when we got Aaron, I think Aaron's going to play well. I actually do it. And I think the team's going to be good. like 10-win team.

But not that. And guess what? And guess what? Next year, you're still looking for a quarterback. Pergatory. And you've been there every year, right? Because think about it. We were saying, hey, get a quarterback, get a quarterback, get a quarterback,

but they still was getting a quarterback at 21. Yeah. Right? You still weren't drafting in the top 10, not even the top 15, top 12, to get a guy. And in my opinion, they're going to end up there again this year. you know, and everybody's so high on this quarterback class, but you never know. You don't know. You don't know. You don't know. And they got a ton of picks

coming up. And I'm like you. I actually have grown to have a little respect for the Steelers outlook, you know, as this thing's gone on. But I don't think they're running away within the AFC. They're just going to be, they're just going to be a tough out, in my opinion. And that takes a lot to be a tough out in the NFL. But when you're when you're tough out, but you're not building towards something in the future. Like, you're just selling tickets, being honest. Like, and if I were on the Steelers, I would want them to go sign Rogers. I don't want to sit for a year and watch.

I don't want to be bad. Right. That's, we don't have that kind of time. But us sitting in this chair, it's like, God, could you at some point just win four games and fucking. Well, hey, I said, and so I said it on TV and they got, people got mad at me like, oh, you hate the Steelers. I was like, no. Yeah, you hate the Steelers. Hey, we need to be atrocious.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, they need to be awful. And so the, to me, the only answer is this, though, Chris. It's with the picks you have, you sell the form to get the guy next year. Yeah. You have to. Right.

Yeah, you have to. You know, you don't, you never go into a rebuild, but you say next year, we're moving up to get to do. And you also can't be like, hey, Aaron, design the entire offense. No. and dictate how the programs run because if you're building something, there's a ton of young players who are building towards the theater too.

Exactly. So, yeah. And that's with all due respect to Aaron. I mean, I feel how I feel about, you know, some of the antics in the past, but like I have reason to believe that because of Mike T and because of the Steelers, he's going to kind of walk,

walk the straight and narrow this year. I hope. No, I think, I think, and but this is my thing. And I told people this when it happened. my tea can work with anybody, Chris. Right. Anybody.

Like he's just, bro, Ben's not a peach. No, that's what I heard. I mean, like, I enjoyed meeting him. Nice guy to me. Cool. Yeah, but he, you know, and it wasn't that he was just this a-hole that needed everything his way. He just needed to be handled a certain way.

Yeah. And Coach Tomlin understood that. He understood how to not put him on the spot. He understood how to not embarrass him. He understood how to have him in a place where he felt good. And so he understands maneuvering around a superstar quarterback. That's not going to be the problem. The problem is, does this superstar quarterback make you better than the Baltimore Ravens?

Does it make you better than the Buffalo Bills? Does it make you better than the Kansas City Chiefs? And I don't think it does. And those are teams you got to beat if you want to be anything in the AFC. my last point on tomlin you tell me how this comparison tracks but i think about nick seriani and in the beginning like listen i had my my gripes about some of the exuberance some of the like the like the swagger some of the like yeah but you know who's got a lot of that is fucking mike t and you know who's and he's got the you just described him the thing i just picked up is his superpower

is communication and emotional intelligence and when i talk to the guys in philly they always talk about his communication and emotional intelligence and the parallels go further. First two Super Bowls, one-in-one, and not guys who call plays. They're walk-around coaches. And I think the true test is going to be, as we framed it earlier, can Nick find this bag that he's got in Fangio or whoever's calling the offense year to year as guys go and get jobs? Can you stick with the right coordinators and make the right hires because that's the key to the whole thing in my opinion. You know, I think, and the other piece of it is, too, though, you, you find a guy in Howie Roseman who just keeps figuring out how to get you there and be competitive.

He's got good groceries. He just, he, he understands it. And this, and this will make sense to you because you're so smart, right? It's, he finds this era's Eagles guys. Yes. Right? Like when you pick a dude, you can go, that dude's an eagle. Yep.

Right? Pittsburgh went away from that to me for a little bit. When, especially toward the end of Ben's career, I felt like they were trying to capitalize on that. And it was, let's go draft for need. And this player can fit here. Whereas in one year after James Harrison has a Pro Bowl year, we go draft Lawrence Timmons and Lamar Woodley, who both play the same position that played James' position. James' position.

I remember that, yeah. But they were Steelers. And we figured out, wait, Lawrence Timis can play off the ball. And he's a downhill thumper. And he's fast, and we could use him as the dime, but he was a stealer. And I think that's what Howie Roseman and the Eagles have done

a little bit better than the Steelers have in Layton Ben's career and a little bit after. That's so interesting that you bring that up. That's so interesting. I hadn't thought about it like that. First take. This is a segment I like to call first take. You got your Sharpie and your piece of paper.

Hold on what's eight? Yep. Yep. See, this is, I should fucking be a producer for ESPN. Here we go. And out of the break, Molly Karam's going to give you some index cards and you're going to write a name down.

Stephen A. Smith is going to scream at you. Do you like arguing with Stephen A? We don't even really argue anymore. He kind of like, like, he's actually, like my dog now. I like, you know what? Hey, I will say this, man. Like, people hate on him, but he make $20 million a year. Yeah. He, he don't care what none of y'all saying. If I could, he kind of, I could tell he kind of cared about some of the stuff this year with LeBron. He kept coming back to it a little bit. I could tell. And it's only human. It's good to know

that you could make $20 million a year and be a human being. He was incredibly gracious to me. We were out South by Southwest. He came on the show bullshit with us. He's awesome, bro. He's supremely talented. I could listen to him. For 20 million a year, we had that good green ball. Oh, what did, what does Shannon say for 50 million? I go to hell. I go to hell. That's a statement. Yeah.

All right, Chan. My favorite thing Stephen A. Smith does, by the way, is that thing where he sits in his studio and just answers mailbag questions. So funny. about Pokemon and shit, like whatever it is. He's like Charzard. All right. So here's the game we got.

The guys in the back are going to feed us an adjective. We're going to have 10 seconds to think of a player name, write the player name down, who first comes to mind when you hear the adjective, and then we'll show the viewers. Okay. Technically sound. Ooh, technically sound.

Dang, that. My pin's not writing, Will. Guys, my pin ran out. Uh-oh. Wait, I got a guy. I don't think y'all, can y'all see that? Why see that? It's Cam Hayward.

Yes. Ooh, good one. Good one. Trey Henderson. Hey, I'm running get a pen. And while you get a pen, I'll talk about why the Cincinnati Bengals need to pay Trey Henderson. Well, he had 17 sacks last year.

Guys like that don't grow on trees. And your rookie is currently holding out over contract language. Also, last year, your defense was fucking putrid. Look at it right on time That's good TV right there All right What's the next adjective? Underrated

Who underrated You can tell that I'm going to be doing a lot of D-Lyman This is a good one Underrated Wait guys This is hard for me There's a lot of them There's a lot of underrated players in the NFL

There are Ultimate Team Sport Ooh, he's a dog. Oh, yes, sir. You think De Niko is underrated? Fuck yeah. Ask somebody on the street if they know who De Niko Autry is. True statement.

They're going to tell you, I don't know. And then ask somebody how many sacks you think he has? They're going to be like, oh, like 34? Nah, bro, he's closing it on 67. Yeah, he's a monster. He's a dog. That's why he got paid. Okay.

Needs to step up. Ooh. Mm-hmm. I think this guy is a very chalky answer here. I just want to see Kyle Pitts step up. That's a big one. No, that's a big one. I want to, because I'm rooting for him.

I like that one. Because he was hurt. He was hurt and he's caught the ball from DoorDash Desmond Ritter. And I'm only calling him DoorDash Desmond Ritter because he was in a commercial. Yeah, but like Kyle Picks, Kyle Pitts is one of those enigmas that like he was, he's so talented or the measurables are so high. for the position. Yeah. Right.

They're so high for the position. And because of that, I think their utilization of him puts him in spots where his athleticism can excel. They're trying to use him outside. They just match him with a corner. So now you're not faster. You're not faster. Yeah.

You look at guys like Tray McBride and Sam Lipporteur. Like, they just, they utilize them so much differently. and I think you see it in the success and statistics of those guys. I'm excited about this year in Atlanta. I'm excited. Reheme, let's go, bro. And then Ryan had Marvin Harrison Jr. Yes.

What is it? Because he's got, what are his skills and what are his weaknesses at this point in his career? Because he's very young. Yeah. Last year it was physicality. I thought the physicality of the game was a bit much for him. Right. But it's also urgency.

Yeah. Like, he's such a, like, smooth, glider, mover. I'm also a layback personality, much like his pops. Yeah. Like, he needs to step up and become an alpha dog. I think if, when you watched him at Ohio State, it was easy for him. Yeah. It's not going to be easy at this level.

But I think, and I'm not using him as the guy that, like, has to, you know, has it played. No, to a year too, because he's young. But I think he's a big piece to how well that offense could play. this year. Dude, if he can get going? Yes. James Connor, the run game's already physical. Trey McBride's a star.

If you can get him going on the outside, that's huge. No question. I'll do one. How about scary? And as in I'm scared of them or they're scared? I know we fear no man. But hypothetically, who would we fear if we feared a man? Okay.

And then we go with a fear man. And I don't want to shorten his name. but I did it anyways. Hold on. He's upset with me. I'll show you in a second. Bro, I'm so mad. I changed my mind.

You just were going to say Jeffrey Simmons. I was going to go Jeffrey Simmons, bro. Did you shake his hand at any point? So he sat next to me at a Dallas Mavericks game. He's a scary human, bro. Brother, he shook my hand and my forearm disappeared. Hey Hey

The two most memorable handshakes I've ever gotten Adrian Peterson Who shook my hand Like he was trying to break it Okay That guy has the fucking Handshake of a 70 year old man

For you should have He should have shook old boy hand That two-piece him Yeah I don't know I think I think in an octagon It would have gotten ugly For the other guy

I think I think in a situation like that There's just too much going on You don't get a real look at how it could have been. Too much space, but that's a street fight. Hey, but good for that guy. You know, he's got a story to tell.

He said, Adrian Peterson, who's got one of the hardest handshakes of all time, couldn't drop. Bro, do you know, I just be like, hey, man, y'all know I went toe to toe with Adrian Peterson over a poker game. That's fucked up. Supposedly they made up. But Jeffrey Simmons, man, don't get in his play. That's a big dude. Scary for sure.

Sequin's scary, too. He scares me. Here's a hell out of. Universally respected. To the point where I don't even have to write a second name down. Just the first name will do. And you'll know who I'm talking about. All right.

Oh, he is, bro. Yeah, I think that too, though. Bro, Fred, like, find me somebody that has anything to say about his game. You can't. Bro. There's nothing you can say about it. Okay, here's a better question, and it might be the same answer. if you could,

if you could experience what it's like to be a player for 60 minutes in a football game and have their skills and their, like, instinct and their speech. It's Fred Warner. Actually, I've switched mine to yours. To Lamar, yeah, Lamar would be sick. But as a defensive player, just spending my whole career,

like trying my very best to do certain things and being like, man, you just, even as hard as you try, you just can't do them. You can't get this guy down. You can't run fast enough to. Here's the thing, though. He does everything. Everything.

He ball searches, he rushes, he plays the pass. Like, it is- Run down the scene. It is a different level of linebacker play when you watch him than when you watch anybody else in football. The gap between him and the next guy, especially with Roquan, fall in all a little bit, is probably bigger than any other position in football.

Well, listen, Roquan, I thought was hurt last year at some point. Like we kind of talked about this. He looked at the line. And then Milano was one of my favorites. He's, he's been hurt. Fred just, he's, yeah, he's doing this. It's a great point. It's different, bro.

Yeah. Last one, cowboy. What you got? Freak show. Freak show. This should be easy. That way, you ready? There's so many, dude.

But the rule is first person comes to mine. Ready? All right. I'm ready. Yeah, I didn't want to do that one. So I went, I went hipster pick, Keon White. I think, I think, bro, I was just up at a Sack Summit, met Keon White, guy really liked playing in New England, that guy's a freak show.

He's freak show alert. I have a question, though, because I heard you talk about it on one of the clips I saw. I got to see Max work this week when I was out there at Elite Week. The field we used, he was using it to work before we got to. there. He had his shirt off. He works his butt off. When I see Max, I don't get the same feeling I get what I see Miles Garrett. But nobody know. Yeah. And then you turn on the film, though, and he's absolutely dominated. Is it just the technique and is it the relentless cardio? Like, what is it that makes him such an impact player?

from a guy who wasn't drafted with that in mind. Well, I just asked him this one, his show, because when I went out there, I did his show, and I said, how the fuck, I said to his coach, I'm watching him do drills. And I'm like, how did 32 teams pass on him for four rounds? Not just, I said, Mike Mayalk's not off a fucking hook because he should have took him in the first round.

I think a lot of it had to do with his drinking and the things that he was up and off the field, which he copped to, obviously. profusely. Yes. But there's a freak show there. It's just not packaged the way that, you know, Miles Garrett walks in the field and you're like, holy shit.

Yeah. That's the, the guy's got muscles. It's like Hunter down in, in Houston. Yes. Look at his arm. You just like,

the new hunter's made out of cement. Yeah, he's made. Yeah, he's, dude, Max is, he looks a little less muscular, right? Like he's a little bit more of like a long arm guy. To me, he's Jared Allen sped up.

I'm not saying he's better than Jared Allen because Jared Allen's one of the best passers of all time, one of the best technicians of all time. But Max is so quick, bendy, and long. Usually when you get a lengthy guy, you get a guy who's a little bit more stiff sometimes. You know, you're not to, this isn't shake because I like the player. He was just in like a, like,

like Doran's Armstrong, I feel like he's like he's a longer cut guy or the guy. He's a good player. He's a good player. Or the guy who was in New Orleans and then went to Detroit, the defensive end there. I'm just at this point in the summer, I forget people's names. I forget that important. Marcus Davenport. Yes, Mark is there about long guys, classic left ends, the guys that are like,

they're their shit cavers and they're going to fuck up tight ends and they're long. Max got that length. but he also has that Twitch, bro. He has that bend and that Twitch. And when you put it all together, you get this like this Jared Allen kind of thing. But in the run game, he has such a great understanding of staying on his track.

Yeah. And I think he has rare, he has really rare spatial awareness. Like, you know how some guys are really good tacklers and it's not necessarily a want-to thing. Like, I missed a billion tackles, dude. just running in there fucking like a mad dog in a meathouse dude just trying to like but you were scared though no you're not worried about the you're not worried about the contact i like the contact but

but you're just like i don't know how to get this guy down like or you get in the backfield and i would disrupt a play and somebody else would make the play man's going to make that play match makes the play he's one of those guys that just he sees something flash once he's through and he's going to knock it down he's so disruptive in the run game And I said to him, I said, bro, I don't think you realize when Vaughn's up there talking and people are like, oh, it's Vaughn Miller. You're like Vaughn Miller too. You're just packaged different. Like, you're a free show, too, bro.

Like, you're not going to go. You both, he does a ghost rush. Do you know how many guys can actually ghost rush? Like, just dip under somebody's armpit? And he's six. So you know, you know when I realized how athletic he was and this can probably be stupid was when I saw him play basketball. I was like, I was like, oh, this makes total sense. Yeah.

Like so fluid, right, so quick twitch gets off the ground fast. I was like, this makes total sense to me now. You know what I mean? But in watching him play initially, I was like, man, like, I was looking at his body like, damn, he's not, like he's been, he's able to go speed the power, but he don't look strong, right? Like, he's able to, he's able to bend this corner, but he hasn't looked that fast. And then as you watch it happen over and over again, you're like, this is not a damn mistake.

No, it's not a mistake. I watch him work the bags. I watch these guys work the bag. It's cold, brother. Another final note, remember the guy that got, he got made fun of because he wasn't very good at the bags. Yes, he was. A kid from Arkansas.

Yeah. I met him. And he was at the Sack Summit. And he looked great on the bags, Rye. Hey, bro, we were up at the cigar bar afterwards, and I'm this like drunk old 40-year-old guy. But I'm like, hey, brother. I'm like, man, I'm really,

happy for you, man, because that was some fucked up shit that happened to you a couple years ago. I was like, bro, I was like, you did look fucking up on those bags, but you look incredible now, dude. And he was, he was gas to hear that, dude. Hey, you were terrible when I saw that video. I was like, bro, so much better. I was like, I had no idea you had a chance to be an NFL player, bro. Like, you've come a long way. And I think he's going to help in Buffalo. But that whole thing was really cool, man. Yeah, someone was cool. I think the DB should do something like that. Man, we're trying, man. A lot of guys have talked to me,

kind of nailing those guys down is difficult. Yeah. But, you know, the big thing about that is, it's like it's so many of them. Mm-hmm. You know, so we got to get some of the top tier guys to buy in and maybe we can get it done. Hell, yeah.

I just don't, I don't see lockdown corners sharing their secrets with each other. Hell no. BBs are a little bit more. They're like, with territorial wolves a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah.

This is something that I think the people deserve an answer. Are you a workaholic? Yes. Like diagnosed or you just know it now? You know what? I don't really know if you get diagnosed as a workaholic, you know. But I was home yesterday. I had nothing to do.

And what did you do? And I just sat there. And Yon asked me, she goes, is it weird to be home all day and do nothing? And I was like, it is. And she goes, well, do you like it? I was like, I don't know yet. And you're not going to wait long enough to find out if you like, he's your ass to be back on a plane, dude.

Hey, I was like, you know what, though? At 5.30, I'm flying to Arizona. So we wanted to worry about it. I don't know how you don't burn out. Like maybe it is because, you know, like, shit, your kids are older. Like Jordan, I'm watching him play football. I can't wait to talk about him. He's getting ready to go play for the Jets.

Yeah. Grats on that, by the way. Thank you, really. That's awesome. The second generation Clark. And then, and then also like just the amount of TV, you're on. I just got my first taste of it being on inside the NFL having to travel weekly, do my show. And then I watch you. And I'm like, every time I see you, Alicia's like, oh, he just

flew in last night or red eye or this or that. And I wonder how you, how you do it, honestly. And I'm not gassing you like, because I got worn out this fall. I got burnout. Well, you know, and you were, you had your show right after we did ours. Yeah. So a lot of times I would have a day after that. I think, man, when I first started in the business, I was like, okay, I'm going to say yes to mostly everything. Until I could figure out what I could say no to. And so you remember, the night of Damar Hamlin's incident, I started that morning, bro, in New York, right? And then they flew me down midday to Scott, to D.C. And I would start every morning, 6 a.m., New York, finished in DC. And so like it was just kind of what I did. And I think now it's like anything else.

I do it because it's on the schedule because I have to. I find a way to push through it. But you get tired, especially November, December. You just figure out of the way, though. What are you doing the plane, bro? I never asked you this. What are you a movie guy or what? So right now, I'm in this sad movie face. I don't know if you, I don't know if you've seen it, bro. I've been watching stand by me and shit like that. So I watched. So I started with my girl. Is that the B movie? Yes. That's the one where he gets stung by the bees.

Thomas J. It's a sad-ass movie, dude. He needs his glasses. He can't see you with all his glasses. And then she runs down the street and tries to holler at her teacher. It's a very weird transition in between Thomas J. Dying and that. But I saw this thing on Instagram and the title literally was movies that will break you.

Do you want to watch the movie? And so I watched My Girl first. I watched Requiem for a Dream. So totally fucked up. I would never watch it again, bro. One time was absolutely enough. It's the one of the few movies that nothing good ever happens. They don't have one high.

Not at all. Well, there's a lot of highs. A lot of high. There's a lot of lows. And that's the message is that with the highs come the lows. So you should maybe avoid those kind of highs. Hey, so I started with my girl and then I posted it and people started sending me these other movies. So I literally have this list of movies that I'm going through.

And if they don't make me cry, I don't post them. But if they make me cry, I post. I got one for you. The Road starring Vigo Mortensen. I've never seen it. I will get it. There will be a scene in the movie and you text me and tell me if you found the scene where you're like, I can't do this anymore. Okay.

Also, sixth man. That's the only movie to ever make me cry. Kadeem Hardison, Marlon Wayans. Yes, indeed. I'm with you with that way. I love your heart. I love your heart. When he walked through the wall and he had to go.

Jeez. This is it tough. All right, I'll bring the mood up. Speaking of teammates, I haven't seen a while. We did get a chance a couple weeks ago. Greenlight was at the cheese steak place there in Philly. Was it Genos? Turn it into Steakwans.

So Seekwan was on the Madden cover and they had us go interview him. But one of the guys that showed up and of course, this is the way he moves. I had no idea who was there until I ran into him in the back. Chad. Chad was in the building. Chad came on the show. I got this little nugget for you. I want to share.

Chad, did you know this about Chad? That Chad was a stripper in community college, a male stripper. Shut up, man. Chad was not a stripper. Dude, I believe it. Am I being naive? Yes. I'm falling for his shit.

Chris, Chris, like real talk. In community college, dude, guys need money. Chris, of all the people we know personally, who do you know that lies more to chat? Like, for real, like, be real. I know, and he does it so easily. So easily. And he does it so much, he just believes it now. No, I know.

And so I do too. but you know what he had us going man he said you know what he said his name was his stage name what twix i ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha can you believe this motherfucker dude hey hey what kind of an i think you would believe that hey you you would oh i was i was like in the show i was like this is incredible let's stay here for a second chat he's like probably internally he was like i'm lying dude um bro, he, he lied daily on our show.

Yeah, that's right. Like, actually on the show lie. Yeah, on TV. We had inside the NFL the last couple years, but we had it this year, and I thought this year was really cool, man. It was. It was.

What was your first reaction when they said, hey, Bill's going to be on the show with y'all? So, story goes like this, though, right? They asked him, and he said he didn't think I liked him, right? So Bill was like, how is that going to work? I feel like Ryan doesn't like me. And I was like, I don't know Bill to not like him.

I was like, yeah, they kicked our tail every time we played. I was like, but I don't know him. So at the draft, he comes in to my room and we sat for like 30 minutes, bro, and we're chopping it up and we get to a point in the conversation and we started talking about secondary play. And we started talking about number one corners. And I was like, yeah, so you know, Bill. I said, you could do it different ways. I was like, think about the way you would use Revis, right?

You would put Revis on the number two. And I said, and you would double or shade the number one DB. I mean, the number one wide receiver. And when I said that, he's like, oh, wait, you noticed that. And after that, we will cool the entire way out. And so he kind of decided that he was going to do the show. And when he's walking out, he shakes my hand, he goes, but bro. No, he's like, he's like, oh, Ryan.

I don't have to wear one of those two-tone suits, do I? Yeah, he was calling you two-tone. Yeah. He was all doing that. Yeah, so that was kind of how it all went down. But I thought it was, I mean, after that conversation, I knew it would be cool. I can't say I knew the chemistry between the four of us. Obviously, me, you and Chad, I knew.

But adding Bill, I didn't know it would be like that. Like, I think I was talking to somebody the other day, bro, and I said, the show should have been the pre-show meeting. You know what I'm saying? Like if we could put that show out like a hard knocks, it'd be the number one football show on TV. I agree. Because it was fun. It was a ton of knowledge.

But it was like the real stuff you thought about everybody. You know what I mean? Like it was like Bill, you, Chad, everybody was just relaxed. We talked ball. We had a good time, man. So I really, I enjoy this year, man, more than I can say. Isn't that tough in TV though? It's like, man.

And you live it. Like you got to fit everything into windows and, and that those production meetings are more expansive. And just generally, people's filters are a little less. And for Bill, like, you got the real bill on TV at times,

but he still held a little in his back pocket. Bro, he held a ton because, you know, I would write notes in the meeting. Like, if you would say something good, it would be in my mind.

I want to make sure I get Chris back to this. Right. Right. And, you know, people don't know. We could edit the show. So they might see the third thing we got around to because it was the best thing. Right. But you remember, bro, I'd be trying to get Bill back to something he said in the meeting and he just wouldn't say it.

But the other piece was, I think some of these people were as friends, right? And I knew he wanted to get back into coaching. And so, like, that was what made it so hard with him. But man, I thought he did it. I thought he did a good job, bro. And it was really cool to see or to be around him and learn just how much he knew. Right. Like, we only got a little bit of it.

But when we be talking about like the black and white film and how it relates to today, and he can go talk about those players, the college all stars versus the Super Bowl champion, like we got so much knowledge from Bill that I think we wouldn't have gotten from anyone who would have been on our show. And so, man, it was a blessing, man, to have that year with all of y'all. Dude, did you have a favorite moment the entire season? I know it's a tough one,

but I think for me it was probably the Christmas gifting with Bill and where people were Secret Santa. Yeah. And he got me a Grateful Dead seed album and a bag of potato chips, which he basically calling me a stoner, which I thought was hilarious coming from him.

He's not wrong. He's not wrong. he's not wrong what did you get remember chad got me the coolest gift man the guy that painted all of our portraits that were on the wall they painted me a show

me and shone on the sideline it's one of my favorite pictures that that was like that almost made me cry on air when he gave me that and that was I think like that's what I'll miss about our show is because like so so many shows like ESPN bro you get there

you do the show, you leave. We really spent the whole day together. Right, like we got there in the morning, we did our meetings, the show took a while of tape. We could hang out a little bit afterwards. It was kind of like a locker room and we had a coach this year. So that's like the piece I'll miss something. I'm trying to think of like, what's the moment I'll miss the most.

It would have to be something Chad did, bro, because Chad was like absolutely ridiculous. Well, you know what I always thought was hilarious not to like, put Bill on the spot. But what I found out is there are a lot of players I thought were really fucking good that Bill doesn't think are very good at all.

They all suck. Everybody sucks. And remember we come to the meeting fired up too? And he's like, oh shit, Chris. He's just... Impressed with this guy.

This fucking guy. He doesn't want anything. Hey, remember though, bro, like sometimes he just get going and like couldn't stop talking about one player, one play,

one team dog. And then Menzo would try to He was like, mince, mince, hold on, wait. Let me get through this. Wait, Steve. Yeah, he was, man, like he was a lot cooler than, you know, everybody, at least I thought he would be. And I do kind of hate it.

It's like when he moved out from us, got to North Carolina, everything's been about his relationship. And I feel like some of the equity he built up doing TV, they've taken away from it. I don't like that if we're going there for a second because I think. I think a lot of people have been waiting to beat Bill up because he's always had the upper hand with the media. I think he's always had the upper hand with the media. And he's got a younger girlfriend. He is not the first older motherfucker to like younger women.

Yeah, bro. And so I don't know why he's the one. I understand that there was some stuff at UNC where they were kind of like, you know, where's the, you know, where's the. But let's not act like they weren't waiting to do this whether or not she was on the football field in spring practice. Bro, this was, and it's not even, I think it's not even that he had the upper hand is that they always had a disdain for him because they couldn't get him to do what they wanted him to. Right. No control. You see, they had no control over him.

And he was so good at his real job, he didn't have to change that. That's right. Right. He didn't have to be any different for them and they resented him. And so now there's this thing. And I think what makes it bad is it's actually not about, that's not football. No. You know what I mean?

It's not about him doing his job, but it is a little bit of a dent in the armor. And they're like, hey, we're going to attack it. But I think my biggest problem, bro, is, and you know, you can, it's like you are attacking Bill, right? You are talking about his life. but it's also these grown men who are fascinated with this young woman. Right. And finding a way to like pick her apart and tear her down. And shoot, I got a daughter older than her.

And I know that makes it even sound probably even worse. You know what I'm saying? That explains the grays. I was getting on you. You know what I'm saying? But I just couldn't imagine how I would feel if that was my child, one, I wouldn't allow her to date, Bill. But I'm saying, like even if you were being attacked.

Hey, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, Bill. No, I'm not going to have a lot of time or energy for non-football things. Yeah, for sure. But no, Bill's the man, dude, and we had a lot of fun this year. The one thing, hey, you know, you built an empire over the pivot, man. And it's been a lot of fun to watch that group grow and to work with Channing.

And for me, one of the highlights is when Fred would be up in Jersey hanging out on the show, whether he was coming on the show, whether he was just in town for the week. I love Fred Taylor, dude. Bro, he is the, he's the, like, the definition of the same all the time. Yeah. Right. Like, there is no highs. There is no lows.

Like, he's just right here all the time. And we did a panel Saturday. You know what I mean? It's a financial panel. So we're talking about finances. And the first thing he says, he's like, well, you know. And you could see all the women. in the crowd go and look up, right?

It was like a damn, it was like a damn R&B group, bro. If Freer was the one guy that couldn't sing that just talk, but not. So women think Freddie T's real cute? Yeah, Freddie T's our sake symbol, bro. Really? I didn't know that. Yeah, he's out Barry White. He's, you know, he's, if we were Joe to see, you know, me and Chan would be Casey and Jojo, the ugly guys in the front there saying he did Mr. Dowman and Devante.

That's who you're all for. That's fucking great, dude. Yeah, no doubt. All right. Well, the question I had was, and it kind of goes into, like, we talk about being in the media and not wanting to criticize people too directly or whatever. I thought one of my favorite moments, and I don't see them all because I don't watch that many in their entirety. I catch mostly clips like we all do, right? Yeah.

Because we're all working. But I thought the Tyreek interaction was great. I thought that one, to me, gets at the crux. of what I struggle with as a media member. And I know, listen, there's no perfect way to do it, but we're going to end up criticizing players at times, right? And I think you and I both try to take a beat before we do. But inevitably, because it is personal,

that's my least favorite thing when people are like, it's not personal. When you're wearing the helmet in the shoulder pads, everything's personal. But there are ways that you can do that respectfully. and I thought the way you unblinkingly and eloquently told Tyreek what you said and why you said it and the place you guys came to within a five, ten second interaction was really cool. I wish more media members when confronted by players would handle it that way. But I just thought that was great.

And Tyreek had to respect. Yeah, you know what I think too, though, Chris, and, you know, like, me and you talk a lot. It's like, I think what happens with media members is because they've never been in our shoes, right? They've never been in the locker room where you and another teammate are ready to throw hands. Yes. Right? They've never been in that place. Like, you know and I know, that's not a time to fake tough.

No. Right? Like, like, that's not a time to show, hey, I'm. I'm tougher than you or I'll fight or whatever it is. This man is telling me he has a problem with something I said. Like, I need to listen to it. You know what I need to listen to him. And the hope is he allows me to express myself why I said it, my intention and say it.

And I thought it was, I thought it was beautiful. And I was happy it happened on camera. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because, shoot, I'm going to be honest, bro. Like, I ain't always right. No. You know what I mean?

But I never want a player to, I never want to. I never want a player to think I was attacking their character when I'm not or I addressed them in a way that was disrespectful when I didn't. And so I thought it was really cool, man. I thought Tyreeks' reaction to what I said was admirable. I thought he handled it with, you know, truly. I felt like I did too. And it's the thing I think that's different for players than for media members and

journalists, right? And I said this about Antonio Brown years back, like when people were like, You know, he said this. He says that, you know, why aren't you responding? I said, I'm not responding in that way. I said, because I know Antonio Brown is not scared me, right? So I don't need to talk to him in some way to try to place fear in his heart. I said, and the same for me, right?

Nothing he's going to tell me is going to make me scared to see him, confront him, have a conversation with him. I said, so we don't have to be loud. Right? I don't have to be loud with him because I'm willing to have. have the conversation, I'm also willing to take it where it has to, it needs to go, if so be it. So we don't have to behave that way. And I feel the same about you. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you're cool. But we understand, hey, if you have to go there, you can, but both of us rather not. Yes. And not going to give too much information. You and I have had disagreements.

Yeah. We have handled them like men, which is something I appreciate about you is, you know, I had a complaint at one point and was like, hey, R.C., I don't like this. And you were like, hey, let's talk about this. And we talked about it and squash it. It's just like, bro, that's how men handle their business. But you made the point. I don't need to act like, I don't need to elevate my voice

because that's not what we're here to do. Like, we've been there. Stop what we're here. Bro, that's not what we're here to do. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, we've got 40s, though. And like, that was, like, that's the crazy thing about

our space now, though, is, it can get disrespectful. Yes. You know, and it's almost like the more disrespectful, the bigger the headline. Yes. You know, and we're in the world of cliques. We're in the world of fame. And I was doing something recently. I can't remember and asked me a question about, like, how the analysts are now becoming

the star. I said, if it's ever a situation to where we're becoming the star, then we're wrong. Yeah. Right. If the focus is on us, we got to find a way to put it back on the game, to put it back on the players, back on the dudes that are doing it because the only time they start caring about us is when we get out of pocket. Right.

Yeah. I figure it's probably hard on TV, though, like, because every day is like, hey, what's the, I'm not asking you to criticize ESPN. ESPN's great. They do a lot of great content. But, like, you got to talk every day. And sometimes, like, the moment demands that somebody shows some emotion. or is definitive about something.

You know me sometimes, we'd be in a meeting and I'd be like, well, I see both sides of it. You know, I'm talking. And you're like, hey, you got to take a side. You know. You know what? And so, like, you can see both sides of it, but you have to have an answer.

Yes. You know what I mean? And so the thing that's hard now, bro, is like the get-ups and the first takes, like those are debate shows. Yeah. So literally, if me and you have, the same opinion, that's not really something they want to talk about. I know. I know. You know what

mean? Because, because you're going to say whatever you say and I'm going to go, shoot, Chris, I agree with you and I'm basically going to say the same thing just in my voice. Right. Right. That doesn't allow a rebuttal. That doesn't allow a conversation back and forth, which doesn't necessarily allow fun. And so I think that's what's hard. And the other piece is this. At 8 o'clock, I talk about cheese versus eagles, right? I probably do it at 9 o'clock. I might do it at 9.45, again at 10.30, again at 4. When you get into trouble is trying to reinvent that thought.

Yes. You know what I'm saying? It's like, okay, I said it like this this morning, so now I got to say this. And you end up saying some things you don't really mean, you don't really intend, and you say it in a way you don't, and that's the one they clip from the day. No question. The clip, the getting clip, man, and the, and the repeat and try to put a little extra English on it because you're like, I don't want to be boring and mail it in and just do the same bullshit take, which is not bullshit, but it sounds like it the fourth time, right? So you try to do a little more and then you end up Dove Climman. Take. Whoever's running Dov Climman's account. Is that a real dude?

No, it used to be a real dude. Now it's like some guy who bought his Twitter account, I believe, and is posting under his superiors. You don't know what's crazy, bro, around Penn State Notre Dame. This whole thing was going on. People were saying that, like, I talk good about Lamar because he was black or I talked bad about Josh. I wanted, I did. And it was this whole thing, right? And someone from Outkick actually had my number and they text me about it, right? And I wasn't very nice.

And I said, you know, like, you guys have been misquoting me for an entire year. It was like an entire year you've been misquoting me. Like you said, I said something that I didn't say. I even went on Michelle Tofoyer's podcast. I remember this. Right? And she played it. And before she played it, she asked me, she was like, you know, you said that Lamar was the only authentically black quarterback in the league or whatever, something like that, right?

And when she played it, after it was over, I said, okay, tell me when I said it. Right. And then she goes, well, is it another clip? I said, no, this is the entire clip. But what happened was one Twitter site posted it in quotation marks. People don't listen. People don't read. And so everybody started clipping it again.

And so I told this guy from Outkick that, right? And he went through and he listened and he checked it. And he actually, to his credit. called us the executives or whatever it is, and they took down everything they had ever posted about that. But in that moment, Chris, that was when I was allowed or I allowed myself to release any tension I have of being misunderstood. Because that was always my thing, right? You could dislike me. Just don't misunderstand me. The same way. Right? And so I realized, damn, wait, they ain't even trying to understand, bro.

Not at all. You know, and I needed to get there because that's why I would have like Twitter back and forths or back and forth with people, not because I wanted them to say I was right. I wanted them to be like, oh, this is exactly what you mean. This is what you intended to say. I get it. I still don't like you. Right.

Cool. I don't like you neither. Right. You know what I mean? And so, but that was a moment that allowed me to kind of release that because I was like, oh, wait, they're trying to F over me anyway. They're not really listening. They're not trying to get to the true bottom.

of it, you know? Because as much as I claim to not give a fuck about what people think, right? The game of telephone drives you crazy where it's like, hey, I don't care if it's 10,000 people I never meet, I don't want to be misrepresented. And

that is probably coincidentally, my biggest fear as a media member is getting on here and getting aggregated and taken out of context. And a bigger fear for me is a player hearing that I said something. that I didn't about them.

There was once a situation where, I guess, Buda Baker famously, if you're a listener of this show, you know this situation, but Buda Baker ran back a fumble for a touchdown or something like that. So I had said Buda Baker hadn't had a, he hadn't had a pick six yet. And, you know, I was kind of having fun knowing how guys were as each other in locker rooms about, hey, getting hawked down and that sort of thing. And he got hawked. He got hawked.

Yeah, it was the D.K. Yeah. And so we were having fun with the play. And the game of telephone got back to Bouda Baker as if I was busting his chops and that I had said that he had never scored a touchdown. What I said, he had never had to pick six. So then he gets on Twitter, all caps. Chris Long don't know Buda Baker, who's, you know, all this shit. And, you know, and to me, my heart sank because number one is I not only know Buda Baker, I respect if I got a Buda Baker. Exactly.

One of my favorite players. Yeah. And, you know, we're not, it's never, you know, a me against you contest. But as far as a player, he's been places that I didn't get to go. Yeah. And so I got a lot of respect for Buda Baker. So what I did is I reached out to him on Instagram. And I said, hey, my man, it's not what I said.

Here's what I said. Squashed it, just like that. And, you know, it's a small example, but it's like an innocuous thing that can turn into a bigger thing and as the content creator now i firmly believe there's some people in the media who do not care they don't at all um but i know you and i know you care and i care as well and we've had these conversations so i think it's interesting look under the hood of somebody who has to talk every fucking day but you know what too though chris like think about that for you though it it didn't just matter you did something about it yeah you know what i'm saying like like i think

and and that's what people need to hear and need to understand and especially at least in my, in the way I see it in former players. If another media member is twisting my words, I can let that go. Yeah. But if there's a player that believes I said something about them or did something to them that I didn't, I don't want that out there about me. Because now that narrative starts that I'm not player first when both of us aren't. That's exactly right.

Yeah. Right. Like if you're going to, if you have. it up we got to say that you like you you know what do you want us to do just kiss your ass all day that's the other side of it and and that's and that's today's athlete though a little bit like here i am we're going pro player now i'm gonna go anti player for a second i do believe today's athlete ryan is a little more sensitive and i can't blame them because there's this onslaught of criticism that our generation and i was kind of we were both at the cusp we have the change of the guard

but there was a whole like if you played in the 90s you read about yourself in the paper maybe it's but are they okay here's my question to you are they more sensitive or do they have access to more criticism than we have

I think we're making the same point yeah and this is it goes back to the classic hey Michael Jordan those guys they were different they weren't even fucking friends with each other and the last dance comes out and him and fucking the guy from the Celtics are playing golf the day before. Right. At the Eastern Conference of finals game.

They're just like us. Right. My dad would have been just like me, but he played in the 90s. Things were different. And, you know, as painful as it might be to think about somebody thinking about, you know, fucking James Harrison might have had a TikTok, right? Like, who knows?

He might have been a weightlifting, but he might have had social media. Hey, he might have been in the middle of the logo with juju. No, I think so, dude. But everybody would have had something to say, dude. Michael Jordan. It's easy. Chris, speaking of that, speaking of that, and you got to show your people this, James absolutely would have had a TikTok.

So he had cleaning his meniscus up a while back. Debo was 308, bro. So he was almost 310 pounds. He went on this big diet. The other day, he posts a picture with his shirt off, flexing his abs, by the pool, like an IG model. Hey, bro. Chris, that's not the James Harrison I knew, bro.

You're only as good as your opportunities, man. And now guys have a ton of opportunities to humanize themselves, you know? Yeah. That's why, like, guys back in the day, like, we got this mystique around, hey, Jack Lambert, all these guys. Like, imagine those guys had fucking social media. You never know. You would have known those players more. It wouldn't have been as scary.

And so I think that. Bro, Jack Lambert would have been popping his teeth out on Instagram stories. Yeah, dude. People are the south side. Yeah. Like just destroying beers on Instagram live, dude. You know what, though? I'll say they do have access to more information than we had, Chris.

But I'll also say, and I could be wrong. This is a personal opinion. They also have access to more praise. So you start to enjoy that. Like you start to live off of like what other people are saying. Yeah. Because if you go on, if you go have a three sack day at Virginia, now the entire student body can talk about how great you are. You can see what every analyst is saying about you.

Yeah. Right. Like I remember, bro, when Twitter first got hot, dudes saying on the sideline, man, I know Twitter's killing me. Like I heard people say that. You know what I mean? And so you know that's because they're going to it right after the game. They can't even get home before they're looking at where people are. It was definitely a DB, dude.

No offense. Yeah, it was a DB for sure. Well, because you know the other thing is, though, like when you miss your gap, Chris, I come make the tackle. Not as many people know. And Twitter don't know. Not as many people know. But conversely, you could rush your ass off and not get home and Twitter doesn't know.

So it's just every position's got, hey, I swear to God, I did used to think if I got, like, I got blown up a couple times, like a handful of times in my career. One time Maurice Jones drew on the sideline, clean my clock, didn't see him coming. You know, little motherfucker just snuck up on me and decleaded me. Well, he didn't but just tell. I know, so I didn't see. Didn't hurt at all, by the way, Maurice. You're a great player, but it didn't hurt.

But the other time in the playoffs with the Patriots, I like, jumped out of my gap and just got decleted. Totally technique unsound trying to make a play. And I remember getting up off the ground and being like, yo, I'm on TV right now. And so, like, the cameras now, the replays, the, I wasn't thinking about Twitter, but I was thinking about a bunch of people in their fucking living room for a split second, walking back to the huddle, like, damn, dude. And then the thing that snapped me out of it was Bill going, get him off the fucking field.

Hey, nah, I need you make no TV no more. They just got you jogging. to the side line. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah. No, so I guess that was my question is like, well, there is no question. I guess the question would be,

are today's athletes as soft as people say? Because I always take the other side of that. And I say they're actually pretty fucking tough. They're actually pretty fucking well-conditioned and hardworking and detail-oriented, smart. They just, you know them more. There are all the things. Here's what I say.

There are all the things we used to be they just won't accept or weren't, or weren't told as much as we were to just shut up and go do it. Yeah, sure. You see what I'm saying? Like, we had a level of, and I don't want to just call,

I don't want to call it respect because I don't want to make today's player sound disrespectful, but we didn't grow up having conversations. We didn't grow up having conversations with our parents, right? Like our parents told us, what to do, we did it. It wasn't a negotiation. It wasn't a negotiation. Whereas,

whereas, like, if you keep looking at what's going on now, Chris, like, I just went to athletes first elite week, right? David Mulligetta. Yeah. Bro. There were high school kids there. Yeah. Right? Because they have to represent them now for NIL. And I asked, I was like, why are so many high school kids here? They said, anybody that's going to be worth representing, when they enter the draft is going to have an agent in college. That if you try to represent them at that time, you will not be able to get them. You'll be too late.

So think about the way that these kids are being coddled. These kids are being recruited daily. It's only going to get worse because they're going to feel like they get to have a say or build the narrative in everything that they do. because right now at 16, not only are they being recruited by Alabama, you're being recruited by the biggest agents in football that are telling you one day you're going to walk across the stage and hear your name called and hug Roger Goodell.

It's hard to tell me to shut up. Well, you know, it's funny. You really laid out one side of the coin. The other side I just want to reiterate is I think where they have a harder time than we did is the perfuse. and ever-present criticism, which I think we are, while we might look for the praise,

we're a lot more in tune with the criticism because that's who we are, right? So I think that side of it, they got a little rougher in all the ways you talk about, and obviously training camps way fucking easier and all this shit. But I do think there is a loss of the innocence of going to school and just playing college football.

Everything is a decision now for all these kids. They're making adult decisions from the minute they walk in the building, Hey, right down to Ryan, like, it seems like a privilege to be able to jump ship and go wherever you want year after year. But when you're done, where do you go home to? Yes. Yes.

Like, that is, like, that's the thing I love about going to LSU and always tell everybody because they're like, man, you know, you're still a homeowner. No, I'm not. Yeah. Like, honestly, I don't have a team that picked me and kept me. Right, yeah. Ultimately, you get cut eventually or traded or something happened through your contract. Yeah.

I have a team that picked me. me and kept me. And so LSU was the place I picked. Yeah. Right. And there, there was no leaving. Like, I never at any point in my career, I had a really good career, thought to myself, there's somewhere else I want to be. Yeah. There's somebody else I want to represent. There's some place else or another stadium I want to be in to where it's like, these kids, man, like, what is your place? And I got to see it a little bit with Jordan. You know, he was at Arizona. State for four years, and he only played one year with Kenny Dillingham. Yeah.

Right. And they're coached, the defense coordinator, Coach Ward. It was a cool deal. We all came out here for the draft. And he didn't get drafted. We knew where he was going. You're like the fifth round. Aaron Glenn called him.

And man, so we're eating at Dominix here. And Arizona State's having a recruiting dinner. So on the way to the dinner, Kenny Dillingham, FaceTime's Georgia. congratulations man I love you man you're this you're that man I'm so happy for you we get there they walk in he comes to the table his defense coordinated from Arizona state and his wife come to the table they buy us a bottle of champagne and it was so cool because Jordan could have left their first year but he didn't right he stuck it out with he's like I want to see what we could do and he struggled to leave the year he did oh yeah but he spent four years here man I'll never forget Dillingham for this and I told this

story. It's like 10.30 during Jordan's trip to Notre Dame, his visit. Marcus Freeman calls me, and he said, I just spent 30 minutes on the phone with Kenny Dillingham telling me how amazing Jordan was. You know, and so he can always come back to that place because of what he put in it and how difficult it was for him to lead. And he can still go back to eat. He can go back to Notre Dame as well. Yeah. And so I did get to experience both sides of it, but for these kids that parents make them mercenaries and the breadwinners of the family, I feel for them, bro, because they aren't

even in control of their presence, of their present nor their future. And that's a tough place to be. No question. That's a good chance to bring up Jordan, who at this point is getting ready to suit it up for the Jets, man. We've talked about this before, you know, like the pressure. of being that guy, of being Ryan Clark's son, you know, of being Howie Long's son or whatever it is. So I know what, and we're all different, but to a degree, I'm sure a different, you know, force in the road,

I, you know, I got something in common with him. And that's why I was so happy for him. And it was so fun to watch you be a dad. Yeah. Thank you. And like, just everything you pour into it and the way you were, not only obviously his dad and, you know, where the rubber meets the road, but also his buddy. which I think is really cool and also I feel that way about my dad having grown up with him as a mentor and a football coach and a dad and then rolled into one.

So I just wonder, man, like, what was that journey like from a football standpoint trying not to try not to step on his toes but trying to be there for him and not overshadow? Yeah, you know, like the,

we worked our way to like like his independence football-wise. Yeah. You know, and like, you can watch my, look at my social media now. Like, I'm still his trainer. I'm the only DB trainer he's ever had. You might be out for a week, though. Tell people that real quick.

Yeah, man. So there's this game called Danny Ball, right? And it's two on two volleyball in the sand with a 10-pound medicine ball and you throw it, right? You can't pass to each other. But at one point in my life, Chris, Chris, I was the greatest player in the world. I was the best Dannyball player in the world. Really? Yeah, they called me.

Kobe Bryant. What set you, what set you apart? Yeah, you called yourself. I called myself Kobe Bryant. Mean, they called you Bean. Hey, but it caught on, okay? It caught on. And so, but I was really good at it, right? And so last week, I'm out here. I train the guys. We're going to play Danny. But I was like, I could get out there and do a little something, right? Right. I remember, like, I wouldn't stretch a lot when I went out there because this volleyball court. So I don't stretch. I get right into it. First throw. I thought my calves was going to pop. So now all I'm seeing is Tyrese Halliburton. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm like, damn, am I going to, you know, so. But I start feeling good, Chris. I make some plays.

I'm playing against Nick Cross, you know, who plays for the coach, you know. So I'm like, okay, so I'm going at Nick. So he throws one. I run all the way up to the net. I catch it. I flip it over. He's a four or three guys. So he takes off to go get it.

And I'm like, man, I can stick my foot in the ground and go make a play. bro, as soon as I picked that second step up, fow, I felt it. Right. And so now it's the stupidity of being 45 and injured. Yeah, it feels pretty dumb, dude. I'm stupid. Aldi was in Vegas at the Sack Summit last week.

He popped his hammy running in the terminal to try to make his flight. He set up by the attachment, Chris. Hey, hey, by the attachment. That's high. That's not good. At least, at least, bro, I was doing something athletic. But, like, it's the, I don't think people really kind of like, especially us, think about getting old, you know, and not being able to do what you once did. You know, we, I was having a conversation with somebody and they were just saying, he was like, man, I used to be an athlete too, because he was kind of kind of talking crap to me.

And I said, but we were a different type of. You know what I mean? I was like, you know, like I made a choice to stop being an athlete. They chose, they didn't choose you ever. You know what I mean? I was like, and it's different. And you live in that world so much and you admire the people around you so much. You almost forget how talented and how hard these dudes work, man. Yeah. And that thing popped on me, bro. And I'm done for the summer. I'm out of there. You know, it's over. But that's a really good thread. I want to, I want to I want to pull that thread in a second. I'm sorry to take you on a sidebar.

Talk about Jordan because I think what you just brought up is really poignant for currently a 40-year-old athlete. Yes, no, it's super cool, man. And, you know, he had a day that he didn't love during the offseason, OTAs, right? He had a practice. He wasn't great about it. And so I was just always hitting him up, how's things going, you know, how's everything going?

Another house practice. And he's like, you know, Pop. I really don't want to talk about it. He's like, I'm going to process it, I'm going to get through with it, I'm going to watch this film, and I'm going to be done. Right. And know what I told you? Okay.

Yeah. And hit me up when you need me. Yeah. Because you know the good thing about us is we know what that day is like. Yep. Right. We know what that experience is. We know that we got to process it on our own.

And especially I know what it's like to be a rookie undrafted, free agent. You know, even though, you know, Aaron Glenn is like, won't you here? You're going to get a chance to compete all these things. Like, it's still that pressure on him. I know exactly what that feels like. And so when you have a bad day, it almost feels like a bad month because you're so worried about, well, will they think I'm not good enough?

Will they go back to this is why I wasn't drafted? And so it's been really cool to watch him process it, man, to watch him work. and to watch his confidence grow as it did throughout the all season to be like, wait, no, I do belong here, right? Like, I did earn this opportunity. And so, man, I'm very, I'm just happy for him. And, like, I remember his freshman year, he broke his ankle playing basketball. He was on the freshman basketball team. He broke his ankle playing basketball.

And he was like, no, pop, like, just tie my shoe. Like, I promise, if you just tie my shoe tight, I can go play. But I can see the ankle. sticking out the shoe and I was like no son you know I'm gonna put you in the truck and go to the hospital and I remember when they told him he broke his ankle the first thing he told me he's like he starts crying he's like dad this is gonna mess up everything for football and when he got healthy I remember we started from like ground zero broke like jump rope and we started doing like quick foot ladders and we just worked his way he just worked

his way up into being an under omar all-American and playing at ASU playing at Notre Dame. And to me, the kid that I watch train now is still the kid that was crying in the hospital that broke his ankle. That thought his football career was over because of that, you know, so it's really, I'm just really blessed me. He's always your little guy. Always, bro.

It never changes. Yeah, yeah. You know, it never changes. I had my first moment like this where I was last week I was on the road and Whalen was at a football camp, my oldest. and, you know, and I know this deal, because I'm sure Jordan at some point knows this deal, but some kid at camp who he didn't go to school with, his dad played ball, like small college ball, and I guess was bragging about his dad and that sort of thing, which is, that's normal.

He should. Yeah. But then he's up behind my son in line and supposedly said to him, hey, you never be as good as your dad. You never be as good as your dad. you know that whole thing and so i call home to i call home because you know as a kid who heard it at different points i knew it was coming at some point the the realization that it's not just fun to be able to face time max crosby or you know like like no ryan clark or come to work and give bill bell a pick shit because he wouldn't give me a football guy gave you all the other football

guys they said hey they said bill i'm gonna be on the sideline cussing you out but that's not it's all not all like it's not all fun having a dad the place of football you're going to be compared to that dad and the day you realize that

things change a little bit right and the way you look at your dad might change a little bit too but I was like bracing for this and so I call Meg

and I'm like hey how was football today and she goes you're gonna want to talk to him and so he takes the face time in the other room and he explains me what happened

and I gave him some advice okay I'm not going to give him but basically my advice is you can't respond to everyone everybody that's got something to say, but you need to stand up for yourself. Yep.

And so the next day, I said, call me after camp. And his mom said, you're going to want to talk to him. So he goes in the other room. I said, I said, how was your friend today? He goes, well, he came right out to me again. He just said it again. He said, hey, don't forget, you'll never be as good as your dad. And, and I go, yeah.

And I go, what'd you say? And he goes, I turned around and I said, hey, why don't you shut the fuck up and start worrying about being as good as your dad? He goes, why don't you start there? And I said, I said, I said, that's pretty good. I said, that's pretty good. That is pretty good. That's pretty good.

They really rolled off the tongue, man. You need to, you need to maybe just save that for the right situation. But I, it's glad to know you have that. in your bag buddy. Hey, that, that's, first all, it's not a bad situation to use it. Good context for using the word. Very good context. Use correctly.

Use correctly. You sounded good. You didn't hesitate. You didn't hesitate. You're not a bad cursor. No. Well, that's one more customer than you've said all year. So I feel like I've my son's, but, but bro, I mean, it is, it is a lot of, it's a lot

of pressure being somebody like your, your son or my dad's son or, or my son. son and, you know, it's not lost on me whenever I see a guy make it, you know, because nobody ever says, hey, Jordan had a hard road. Everybody said he had an easy road. His dad's Ryan Clark. But the truth is when he walks into a room growing up, a lot of people are saying, hey, he's a target. That's Ryan Clark's son.

Chris, can I ask you a question? Yeah. So obviously. And I just want to say this before. you asked me a question. I said to him, Ryan, I said, you know, they used to say that same fucking thing to me. I said, and you know what? They were right. I said, but, but, but I played in the NFL for 11 years. I kicked some major ass, man. I said, and I got to be honest with, there's no guarantee you're going to be as good as me. I said, if you are, that would mean some,

you did some pretty good shit. I said, it doesn't happen easy. So if he's as good as you, he did some great things. Here's what I wanted to ask you, Chris. And, you know, your father's a Hall of Famer. You're drafted, second overall. It's obviously an anomaly, but I feel like now more and more we're seeing former player's sons be really good. I just like, Notre Dame just signed Thomas Davis, Larry Fitzgerald, and your Michael

Finleys, or they just all committed in like the last week. Oh, yeah. To Notre Dame, you know what I mean? Is it, are we seeing it more or do we just hear about it more? I think we might hear about it more. I also think like when we start seeing him in the pros more, I'll start to think the trends really change him. But although you see like, like Rainy Moss's son, Thaddeus Moss,

who I think Thadmos was at LSU. A lot of people remember him for that crossblock, which was not dirty at all. people you need to you need to play the cup block uh i think we're over that but um you know i think what what's interesting is when you study it you're like a lot of the best players who had former player dads like you know people don't even realize they're cross-positional you know like cam jordan his dad was a hell of the tight in tight-in was he not all pro or whatever it is like yeah people don't associate him necessarily the same

same way they might associate somebody whose son plays the same position. No, you're right. You're right about that. And I'm trying to think of some other second generation guys, but I think it's true in a lot of situations where it's like... You got, uh, shoot, um, Erv Smith that plays tight in. His dad, his dad playing league. Um, Mark Ingram.

Mark Ingram. Didn't Ingram? Ingram, obviously. Jamal, Jamal Adams. His father was a first round draft pick of the Giants at running back. Hayward? Cam Hayward, his father played. Yeah, you're right.

So it's interesting to me, where it's like, it's almost rare to be the guy that plays the same position your dad did in a lot of ways. Yeah. And I think it's harder. It's harder, too. It might be harder. It's also harder. It might be harder. Don't be saying, like, they pay more attention to me, I think, to that guy because you can have a direct comparison to the father.

No question. You know. But no, anyways. You make a real good point where I think there's more of it happening, you know, at least the collegiate level where we're scared. Maybe we're hearing about it more. I don't know. Well, Rai, I appreciate you generous with your time, dude. We got to catch up more.

I miss you. I miss you, my boy. Yeah, man. And give my best to Jordan, man. I'm sick watching play, man. 58 days till football. 58 days, brother. Love you, my boy.

Love you, man. See you.