Green Light with Chris Long - The Last Dance Review. Clyde Drexler on Michael Jordan. Chris Long on NFL Draft Week.

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

0:55 - Chris’ Thoughts on the Last Dane Ep 1 and 2. 31:15 - Hidden Stars of the Show. 35:52 - Clyde Drexler on Michael Jordan, the Dream Team and the 1984 NBA Draft. 1:11:49 - Quick Hitters with Clyde Drexler. 1:21:00 - Chris’ Quick NFL Draft Preview. Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And so when we lost the coin flip for Hakeem Elijah ones, we called the wrong heads or tail, right? So we lost the coin flip, so we lose Hakeem. So now you go from not getting Hakeem, and now is Sam Boyer, Jordan, and Michael Thompson and I went to the general manager's office, a guy named Stu Enman. And Stu Ehrman, we begged him to drive Jordan.

Michael Thompson said in these exact words in 1984, he said, Stu, if you draft Jordan, him and Clyde going dominate this league for the next 10-15 years. Welcome to Greenlight Pod. I'm your host, Chris Long. I got a really fun show for you today. That's because there were some sports of sorts on last night. I felt like the entire country was held captive,

glued to their couches watching the last dance, the ESPN docu-series on Michael Jordan. It's one of those things that I think seemed like it was a long, time away, obviously it was moved up and we've been waiting and waiting and here we are. And it did not disappoint. You know, the footage is all new. It's footage that's been in a vault for, you know, years and years. And the background of this documentary was that during that final season, actually the last dance was a Phil Jackson moniker for the season that he put on those pamphlets which looked hilariously low budget but it was 1997 1998 so i mean go figure he was probably

running somebody to kinkos to print that out oh i'm sure they had a big printer in the bulls facility but you get the idea it just didn't look uh becoming of a dynastic NBA basketball team with the goat um and scotty pippin and all those guys uh you know it was black and white ink it looked very primitive but maybe that was Phil's style and so he called that season the last dance um and it was unique because everybody knew it was i can't think of too many other situations where you know that that different where you've got a team that's won five championships um in the last seven eight years um and you're in the midst of a second run at a three-peat and your coach is going to be stepping aside at the end of the year.

And they're probably going to break the whole thing up. And Jordan has maintained that he's not going to play for anybody but Phil. And I just, it's bizarre when you look at it through that lens. I mean, as a kid, you're watching as a 12, 13 year old kid, if you were lucky enough to grow up in the era where you could digest what was going on in the court, you at least saw what was happening, but kids don't, 12, 13 year old kids, they don't, you know, even now, I don't think they're hip to what's going on behind the scenes or reading quotes, you know, immersing themselves in the organizational back and forth that we got to see last night.

I mean, I'm sure adult sports fans knew all about it, but I didn't even know the extent of some of the dysfunction there, that swirled around Krauss and Jackson and Jordan and those guys in Scotty's contract, which I think some, you know, even adults at the time when it's put back into perspective or shocked at how little money Scotty Pippen was making. And we'll get to Scotty in a bit. But because he was one of the biggest revelations of a documentary about Michael Jordan on the first night and made me think they could probably write a script for a, a Scotty Pippin movie.

I mean, his story is that interesting from, you know, manager, the five-inch gross spurt, you know, all the hardship he's had to deal with in his life, having two people in his own home, a part of his family, couldn't find to wheelchairs as a result of a stroke and an accident, one in his brother, one in his dad. And then, you know, his rise to stardom and his, you know, his... being overshadowed by Jordan, which I'm sure that he wouldn't change a thing going back in time as far as where he ended up playing basketball. I know he loved his time in Chicago. You saw how emotionally he got before they hung the banner in 97, 98. But I don't know, man. You wanted an

alternate universe what Scotty Pippen's legacy would be on another franchise. And I think they hit that pretty nicely last night. You know, I tweeted this that he was, he has as good a case as any athlete to actually be resentful. Athletes are wired differently. We feel spited very easily. We're competitive. We don't like being disrespected. And Scotty had a case and probably has a case sitting there now as, you know, a 55, 60 year old dude. I don't know how old Scottie is. Maybe he's a little bit younger than that, but that he could probably be mad at the world. You know, the card that he drew with some of the issues in his family. And then the fact that he was so great. I mean, his highlight reel is disgusting. You never watch Scotty Pippen highlights if you're a casual

NBA fan. But I was hoping they'd put a lot of his stuff on because some of the dunks he had, you know, the Patrick Ewing one is an iconic one. But, I mean, there's a, there's a length. the highlight reel that you could put toe to toe with a lot of the stars of his generation that were more thought of as frontmen. You know, he happened to be the number two, but he happened to be the number two behind possibly and probably the greatest basketball player of all time. Certainly at that time, they highlighted it. The attention that Jordan got, rightfully so, was unparalleled in sports history. I mean, outside of, I mean, Will Bond, I think, likened it to maybe Babe Ruth and who else, Muhammad Ali. But you get the idea, Scotty Pippen drew that card. Now, he had a number of

championships out of that. He's a Hall of Famer. He eventually made $100 million plus in the league, but wouldn't you love to have your stardom and your championships and your money all at the same time? All things consider Scotty's had a really blessed life, but he has, to at some point look back and resent the way that I think a lot of younger fans probably think of him, which is as Robin proper to Jordan's Batman, Pippin could have been Batman a number of places. And, you know, he's probably regularly annoyed by that misnomer. You know, but the entire journey for him was very interesting. And, you know, even to even into that point where he'd kind of had enough in 98,

where he elected to get surgery so his summer didn't get fucked up, which was a shockingly open admission from a player. And I know that players have made decisions like that selfishly before, but this had a tinge of retroactive. retribution kind of showing Krauss in the front office. I mean, I've heard of players plenty of times not handling rehab and surgery and timing correctly, but very rarely is it spoken on publicly, especially by a player of that caliber in a situation where his actions were so consequential, not just to the Bulls, but to the

landscape of the NBA. I mean, this is a team that's trying to solidify itself as the best of all time. And it's probably, it's probably getting there, but a six championship, you know, puts you in very rare, rare company. And two-three-peats, unparalleled. So that was interesting. It was also interesting to hear Phil say that he wasn't annoyed with him. And then, you know, seeing Jordan and calling him selfish and kind of in an interview back in the day saying he has nothing to say about that. And, you know, he said a lot with a few words there. That kind of puts Jordan in an interesting lens as far as like a pro player guy.

Like nowadays, it'd be interesting to see with some of these labor negotiations and that sort of thing, like where Jordan would fall. But also as a teammate, I understand. Like, you could look at it on one end and say, hey, Scotty Pippen, that deal. That's the way things go. You know, and getting surgery and weaponizing his rehab, you know, I get the idea. I get the motivation, but you're also involving a lot of other players in the Bulls,

who, by the way, are all making way more money, not just Jordan, a bunch of role players are making more money than Pippin, who's been a centerpiece. I think he was making the 122nd most money of anybody in the league. at the time and it was funny when Scott Van Pelt had his midnight sports center after after the show wrapped they were like for perspective the 122nd highest paid player in the league right now is blank I don't remember but it sucks to be that guy to be held in comparison to Scotty Pippen to illustrate how fucked up that was it was also funny as I dropped maybe my first f bomb of the show to hear Scotty say fuck

That was funny to me. It was funny to hear Jordan and Scotty and a number of people say fuck on ESPN. I had to check twice to see if I was watching HBO or Netflix or something. But really glad they highlighted Scotty. Again, they could do an entire thing on Scotty. I mean, I'm 10 minutes in. I've talked mostly about Scotty. Not to let Scotty hijack this whole thing, but he was awesome.

And he seems like a guy who carries himself. pretty well. Now I know people tweeted at me when I said Scotty had a really good case to be resentful that he doesn't tip. Okay, there's a flaw. Definitely not cool with him not tipping, but I'm pretty sure fans who think less of Scotty, you know, on account of his frugality, have some players in their fandom that have done much worse. It'd be interesting to examine that. you know i um one thing i wanted to see and i was really interested in um here is is kind of how open this footage was going to be and so far it's pretty it's pretty good i have a feeling we haven't scratched the surface again you know the way this thing went down was uh this stuff's been

held and jordan before they taped this uh NBA entertainment when they taped this in 97 98 they um they were like hey you have complete control over this um And, you know, you have, like, final say on what goes out and what doesn't. And it was pitched as almost like, hey, and if you don't run with it, it's like, it'll be like the best highlight tape ever to show your kids, like, you know, home videos. And it sat and it sat and it sat in like a vault at the, I believe it was the NBA headquarters and it had its own room. And I think Jordan had access to it. And it was very protected. And that makes sense because Jordan has.

such a guarded persona. His agent talked about, I think I was doing some reading on it. And just the whole mindset was like every time Jordan's likeness and brand is used, and this is a basic concept that some people subscribe to is it's almost like inflation. I mean, it's just the value goes down every time. And so that was kind of the way Jordan was. And I get a feeling that it wasn't only because of his business acumen, but also because of, you know, the way. way he was being kind of guarded, more private. He did seem, as you peel back, you know, the curtains here, like a guy who was a bit simpler in his taste and a bit simpler in his interest.

And those were basketball and family and working at his craft. I mean, the stories in the beginning about when he got in the league and burst in on that hotel room, I was invited into the hotel room and then, you know, turned away and said, I'm not interested in that. I don't need to get in trouble, that sort of thing. I wonder how true that was with regularity. But the fact that Jordan, at least back then, didn't drink, didn't party. I mean, this wasn't really his thing. He was there to win basketball games. And, you know, I'd even read that, you know, he turned down 50 million in endorsements in one sitting with his business partners at one time. And this was like on the tail end of his career.

So that just goes to show you how selective he was. And I wonder as I'm sitting here watching this, what Jordan, and this is a well-beaten path in discussing this, but who Jordan would be today in 24-hour news cycle in a time where, you know, players are leveraging their platforms to do a million different things. You look at LeBron. He's got a production house. He's got a media network.

He's blogging his Instagram stories. He's not guarded. I mean, you. You get a lot of LeBron. And now that access is doing the opposite of inflation for the right guy. It's adding value. Now people want to know who you are. So it's ironic that Jordan guarded his brand so heavily and was so closed off.

And that allowed in a weird way, you know, 20 years later for players to grow their brands and make a ton of money and have a huge footprint. by doing almost the opposite. You know, I wonder what he'd be like. I don't think he'd be LeBron. And I'm not saying there's a good or a bad way to do it. He just seemed more guarded. He seemed more protective. He seemed a little bit simpler.

Again, in his taste and in what he was into, now it's impossible to predict. But, you know, even this footage, you know, he has final say on it. So if there's anything in there that's going to blow your mind, I know he teased and said, if you watch this thing, you're going to think I'm a dickhead. Okay, well, we already knew you were a dickhead. But if there's anything in here that's going to damage his reputation or is questionable. I mean, they've gone through this with a fine, fine-tooth comb here.

He has control. So it has the appearance of opening the floodgates on what was in the vault, but I wonder what was really in the vault. I mean, what did he say, yeah, that's not going to fly. That's what I'm really curious about. And, you know, the background of this documentary is it sat and sat and sat. And then in 2016, when the OJ thing came out, making a murderer, the guys that did this documentary said, okay, documentaries now are moving to more long form. We can get away with doing a series.

And that changed the way that you thought about, hey, we could do something with this. And it would have been impossible to do in one 90-minute documentary, which seemed to be the benchmark, you know, 10 years ago. So it makes sense that now it finally became possible in the last five years or so. Another interesting thing that I read about was, you know, Jordan's avoidance of any sense of finality in his life. Like, you know, it was almost like MJ could not imagine getting older and not being an Uber competitive goat. I mean, whether it's baseball, whether it's the front office thing, there's always a frontier that he wants to conquer. And one of the most surprising things about this documentary is just the name is the last dance.

Okay, well, he took it from the Phil Jackson thing, but there is a sense of finality here. And I don't know what transpired in Jordan's life or what made him suddenly warm to the idea of, you know, closing a chapter. But this is what it feels like. And I'm really glad it's going on. I mean, I didn't grow up a Bulls fan. I grew up a Knicks fan. He tormented my favorite team. but he's somebody that as a basketball fan, you just can't help but be drawn to.

Whatever you think, whether he's the greatest of all time or not. And by the way, I think it's absolutely fucking pointless to do this debate this week. We do it on first take 300 days a year. Why are we doing it right now? Just sit back and enjoy the documentary and stop comparing players across generations as if we haven't been doing this for the better part of 10 years with LeBron and before that with Kobe. Yeah, so I was on Devin McCordy's pod,

and he was like, give me one word. We were playing a word association game. Also, it was Jason McCordy's pod. I just happened to know Dev better. So shout out to the twins. Like, they were playing an association game. They said Michael Jordan. I said isolation.

That's the only thing that I could think of with him. I mean, yeah, obviously competitive, obviously driven, would do anything to win. Okay, we all know that, but I think burying the lead here, it has to be incredibly lonely at times to be Michael Jordan. I certainly don't feel bad for him,

but to have that level of competitiveness and skill and greatness, no one understands you. Even at the conclusion of this documentary, I think we'll all feel like we know him better, but we don't. And we can't relate. I think I'm not going to say there was nobody more competitive than him as a former athlete. Like you always want to think that you're the most competitive guy in the league.

You'll do anything to win. Michael Jordan is the gold standard. And you get that sense that, and this is what I like about it. What you see is what you get. He kind of was just unapologetically an asshole out to win. And he was going to bring out the best in his teammates through a really uncomfortable process. You know, not every leader I played with was an asshole, and that's okay. But it's also really hard to do the asshole thing because you have to be perfect.

I could never do the asshole thing, you know, on teams that I was a leader on. And of course, I hate even, like, following up a Michael Jordan comment and discussing my career. But as an athlete, like getting into his psyche, it's impossible to imagine because to be a, an asshole consistently to your teammates in a way that's going to get the best out of them, you have to be damn near perfect. And that's why I don't think it's him being an asshole that's rare. I think what's rare is that somebody is that great and also that asshole kind of leader. Because anybody who's one of the best in the world at what they do at any time could do that

if they so choose, could be that person if they so choose. but Mike had both. He had the ability and that hard edge where he was going to be brutally honest with guys and probably, you know, at times, drove some people away. But I think his mindset, it seemed like, was if you can't handle my chirping at you

and my criticism, like how am I going to count on you in a situation that's much more pressure-packed than me calling you soft? or questioning your work ethic or calling you a dumbass when you make a bad play. I mean, leaders in sports sprinkle those comments in when appropriate, but for that to be his brand as a leader. And I could be wrong. Maybe there's a lot I'm not seeing, but it's pretty interesting.

But I also like the fact he was kind of honest with the media, it seemed like. You know, I'm not playing anywhere else. You're ripping Krauss level-headedly. You know, the Cubs comment, they said they've been rebuilding for 43 years. That was laugh out loud, funny. And also it would have been a big fucking deal nowadays, which also goes to show you the difference in the way the media was back then and now. Also, you know, his his attitude when it came to being risk adverse,

which obviously he's not. And I'm not being funny. I mean, there's the gambling thing. But last night, there's, they're talking about, well, I told Jordan if he played, there's a 10% chance he hurts his foot again. This is in his second year when he broke his hoof because he's a goat, his hoof. He fell on his hoof. That, you know, if he hurts himself or if he goes out there's 10% chance his career is over and Jordan's still pushing to play and somebody commented on him not being very risk adverse. Well, that's pretty obvious to me from everything I know about Michael Jordan.

You think that's how crazy he was. Imagine him going out there and he was back home at UNC playing, which was another thing that was interesting, is like, can you imagine an NBA team right now with their most precious capital and not knowing what he's doing that he's playing basketball for an hour and a half a day during a rehab sequence where he's not supposed to be doing anything of the sort. The guy was just a psychopath and then came back, by the way, and dropped like 40, I think, on the Knicks in his like fourth game back.

They go to the playoffs. Obviously they fall short, but he was spectacular at times. And so the personality part of it was interesting. Also, I think one thing this documentary does is it serves to remind. people that depending on where you were born, when you were born, you might not know the entire Michael's story. There's two Michaels. If you are, you know, 35 years old like me, you're going to know in real time kind of what was happening in the early 90s. If you divide it between two, three-peats, you know, I was a six, seven, eight-year-old kid when he was doing his first three-peat. I don't have the

same sense of remembrance when it comes to that. Even if I watch it back, I didn't live it as a sports fan. Now, you know, Bowles, you know, second three-peat with, you know, where they beat the jazz and the sonics and that sort of thing. That was something I remember more vividly. I'll always remember where I was when he hit that shot. And I'll always remember, you know, where I was when he played the Sonics. Actually, my dad's buddy. Frank Brickowski was on that team and got into it with Dennis Robin. I was watching very intently. And I'll always remember the Gatorade bottles with the caps where if you got Bulls and

six, you knew you were going to win a free towel and some free, like a Gatorade hat, which was the smallest deal in the world. But our Little League team, we used to fight like dogs over the Jordan and six. A guy stole my Jordan and six bottle cap. I'll never forget if I see him today, 20 years later. I don't give a fuck. I still think less of you. You took my Bowles and Six Gatorade cap that you mailed in and got a free Gatorade towel off of.

It was a big deal that I remember what it was like. But I wasn't as plugged in during the first three peatins, certainly not in the 80s. And there was an entirely different Jordan. You know, gold chain Jordan was different than, you know, the older Jordan, who's a decade plus in a league. his game seemed different um the persona seemed different you know he's definitely hardened um when you look back at footage of him in that celtic series when he dropped 62 you know and the highlights surrounding that era he looked as much like you know he had the explosiveness and the frenetic pacing of a westbrook you know more so than than a cobi which i think Kobe looked more

more like him the second go-round. And, you know, I was reading an article about some of the background here, and he claims he ran a 4-3 at UNC. That's how great an athlete he was. He also claims he wished he was a receiver because he said he had great hands and could probably play in the NFL, I think he said. But if he really ran a 4-3 at UNC, I mean, this guy, 6-5 running a 4-3, jump out of the gym, he was a pure athlete.

And, you know, if you only grew up, you know, you know his name is his erinus. I'm not pulling a Darius Slay here. Shout out to the newest Eagle Star. He tweeted his synopsis of the documentary last night was, damn, bro. Michael Jordan has hops or something to that effect. I'm like, Jesus, his name's his hearness, bro. I didn't have any revelations like that. But as you go back and, you know, leading up to this, I did go back in YouTube.

some old, old footage and kind of watch some older games from the 80s. And there was an entire chapter of MJ that we, even as 35-year-olds, didn't live. And imagine if you're a millennial. So there's definitely a reason for this documentary to come out and put things into perspective. And I'm not even talking about a debate over who's the goat. I'm just talking about fully understanding, not just Michael the person. and that's what were as 80s babies are hoping to glean because of his protective nature when it came to the brand, but also Michael's a player in the 80s, early 90s, and also how difficult it was in the 80s as well.

So, I mean, two, three beats, amazing. Imagine the landscape prior to that. I mean, that was another thing that will hopefully ask Clyde about was like, dude, you've got the Lakers, you've got the Celtics, you had the Sixers, you had the Blazers, and then you had the Pistons. And you couldn't get over the hump there until like the third time you played them. And I saw somebody comment last night, and I'm looking forward to the Pistons series next week, where he said, Michael didn't even lift weights until he played the Pistons. The Pistons created a monster. And also you think about what was the perception of Michael?

Who would Michael have been nowadays going on like eight years, six, seven, eight years without a championship? But undoubtedly one of the best, if not the best talents in the NBA. And, you know, his first couple of years making the playoffs on a 30-win team. It's insane. I mean, that's how bad the Bulls were. And that's another thing when you lay the groundwork for this whole thing is the Bulls were not just always the not. 90s bulls. The Bulls got outsold by the Chicago Sting, was an indoor soccer league. They pointed out last night. I mean, they won 30 games in the second year and made the playoffs. I think they were sub 500 his first year as well, made the playoffs.

So it was a slow process. And I also wonder, would Jordan, you know, what if the front office didn't make moves for Pippin and Grant? would Jordan have been a mover, you know, in today's game? I know it's easy to sit back and say when free agency was less of a thing. Yeah, that's just not the way we do things. We don't form super teams. But if in the 80s you're looking around and there's a few organic super teams out there and you're not on one and the Bulls don't make a move for these guys, we might look at Jordan as being one of the.

the biggest wasted talents in NBA history, if not the most wasted talents. So a lot of what-ifs and, you know, the 80s are interesting to me because if you were a fan in the 80s, I don't know. I didn't live it. Like, what did you think of Jordan in 1990? What was his rep? Did people know what was about to happen or do they have any inkling of what was about to happen?

And I think the answer to that has to be, no, you couldn't know that he was going to go on to engineer one of the greatest runs in sports history. Yeah, I mean, I also wonder what kind of music he was listening to. I was a little disc man. I was just like trying to put myself in that Bulls locker room. You know, what compact disc was this guy? I know he listened to Anita Baker, but I tweeted last night. I was wondering, you know, what Jordan, down to what Jordan.

Like nowadays, you have access to players. They post playlists online. But Jordan literally probably had a fucking CD case like we used to have in high school. with the sleeves and everything and travel with that bulky son of a bitch and rotated between Anita Baker and whatever else. Jay Adande tweeted at me and said that it's rumored that he was on the DeAngelo back then, which is great. You know, he wasn't a rap fan.

I think there was a moment where somebody mentioned something about Raqim and he didn't know who Raqim was and somebody had to explain he's not a hip-hop fan. So very interesting, very interesting juxtaposition when it comes to current day basketball, the access and the lack of access back then with Jordan. Some hidden stars here. Bill Walton, my man, hated to see my boy dejected because he had to guard MJ game two. And they showed him on the bench just looking like he'd had it. I know he'd been illegal while at this point, but guarding his erinus in a game, at least for a portion of it, where Jordan dropped 63 had to just be like, what the fuck do they have me doing? I thought that was funny to see Bill in a bit of a cameo.

Also, young Bob Costas had a little drop in. I also want to shout out the very curious sign in Paris at the arena. where Michael Jordan is referred to as the Black Panther. I had to Google if that was a nickname of any sort. I know me in Rosillo or Rosillo likes to go through funny NBA nicknames that actually nobody ever refers to the corresponding NBA stars as. That would be one that I don't even think makes that cut. It was very European of those folks.

to kind of just throw together a nickname last minute for Michael Jordan and put it on a poster board sign upon his arrival to Paris. Also, I know Michael is a family man, a married man, but I'm pretty sure if he wasn't, he could have had a lot of fun in that city. I mean, look at just the footage as he's walking into the hotels, as he's, you know, doing press stuff there. it's so it's a throwaway for a star today but it was surreal seeing it and his global stardom

in real footage that you'd never seen before you know i guess the closest comp would be lebron traveling internationally uh this was just crazy to to see how big he was in europe and i'm sure paris was a good time for the bulls um also I want to shout out the guy who got LeBron's wristband. I wonder how that French cat, presumably French, I don't know. I know he's a French team.

I wonder how he's storing that bad boy. Like what kind of a shadow box you put a formerly sweaty Michael Jordan wristband in. And also, did he catch himself on the show? Was he watching last night? So I guess one of the random parts that blew my mind the most was the golfing thing.

Okay, for 20 years we've heard, hey, guys now are soft, they're friends that's unforgivable in the 80s and 90s, no baby is allowed, this was a tough guy era. Man, two of the now benchmark type gritty franchises in big, tough cities, Boston, Chicago, two of their biggest stars in the 80s, when people were getting cold-cocked for going to the, like, fucking trying to shoot a layup, these guys were golfing before game two. And, of course, MJ told Danny to tell, uh, tell his boys they had something for him.

But, but still, like, I know everybody was sitting on the couch last night, universally looking around like, what? Huh? Like, they were playing golf before a playoff game. I mean, I don't care. I, listen. to each his own. I'm not one of these hardliners.

It's like you can't talk to your friends. You can't see your buddies at the 50 yard line. I love coaches that are like, we're not going to be fucking friends with people today. Like if I catch you out there talking to a player on the other team, I'll know where your head's up. Like, motherfucker, you don't have to hit anybody. I have to go run into these people.

I'll talk to them as I see fit. And in the 80s, these were fierce rivalries. It's not that the Bulls and the Seas were a robbery at that point. I don't know how people thought about it. But crazy that they were playing golf together, especially with the narrative that looks a little funny in the light now. Was Jordan actually a closet nice guy? Hmm, interesting. I will ask Clyde about it.

So without further ado, we'll get Clyde on the line. We got Clyde Drexler on the line welcoming an NBA legend to the Green Light Pot. one of the biggest guests we've had, Hall of Famer, NBA champion, Big Three Commissioner, 10-time All-Star Dream Team, all that. I could talk all day about the bio. Clyde, how are we doing, ma'am? We're doing good, Chris. How's everything? Delighted to be on your show. Well, I appreciate it. You know, everything's good. We all miss sports, I know, and you're, I'm sure you're the same way, but this is the least we can do is kind of put things on pause for a few months. And I know you've got a a job to do now as the commissioner of the big three.

And I know there's some hope that maybe we see we see some of that by summer's end. What's the update on that? Well, Chris, as we all know, people are losing their lives. This virus is very contagious. And so you want to be safe when it comes to public health and putting on events. And so we're all trying to remain diligent and just see what the data says from science and what the curve is going to be of this virus.

But with that being said, obviously the economy is taking a hit. People are losing their jobs. They're losing loved ones. So this is a tough time in our history, right? The big three, Chris. The big three is incredible Ice Cube, Jeff Quantinets, the co-founders. Those guys work hard. We're looking forward.

We don't start until the end of June. And hopefully the economy will be somewhat backed by then. but we're just taking it day by day. We're going to do what we can and what we can't do. You know, we're just going to stay diligent and abide by the rules. Well, I think it's great to hear, and it's no surprise to me. You guys are kind of understandably taking a backseat to this thing, and you're not going to force anything.

But, you know, at the same time realizing that, you know, sports can be a major morale boost. I remember, you know, I'm sure you remember better than me because I was a kid. I was in high school when 9-11 happened and just the role that a community feel played in getting back on the field, getting fans to rally behind their teams, to bond over something. So I think that whenever it happens, it'll be a sight for sore eyes, but we got to do it sequentially in the right way. So this Big Brother, Big Three concept that I was extremely excited about is out or is that is that in? This was the reality. That's still something that we're working on.

And hopefully the co-founders will get something done in the near future. And once it's done, obviously we'll put it out for everyone to hear about it. But that's something that's a reality. And we're hoping that we're able to do it because, you know, we need sports, but not at the expense of anyone's life. And so we want to do it safely. We want to do it within the confines of what can be done.

And we want to make sure that everyone is safe and okay with whatever we do. Well, it's an amazing concept, the little bit I read about it, that, you know, dudes would be quarantined together from what I read and correct me if them wrong in Vegas. And they'd be kind of hanging out and you get to know the players even better than you do now and the preparation for the big three season. Who was supposed to be on that thing? Can you share it all, anybody special that would be on that thing that we don't know about?

Well, we were, you know, we were hoping that some of our best players will be on it, which is, you know, guys like Joe Johnson, Amari Stademey, Nate Robinson, guys like Coutinho Mowgli, Stephen Jackson. I mean, we got a lot of great players in the big three that are phenomenal players. And a lot of good young players as well. So it's not an old man's league. It's guys who can still play. Why?

Because it's three on three and it's only half court. And they play once a week. So they can really still play. That's the reason our product is so good, Chris. This is a great concept because people will get to know more about the big three, the inner workings, and see how hard, just how hard these guys play and how much it means to them to win. So if you had to be quarantined with three former teammates,

who are you picking? Who could you actually put up with on a day-to-day basis for a month? You know, it depends on where you are in life. Let me just give you a story. The 92 dream team, the original dream team, Chris. I was next door to Larry Legend, Larry Bird. And, you know, I didn't know Larry that well. Obviously, I'm in my ninth year in the league.

And Larry was in the East and I was in the West. We played each other twice a year. So you really don't get to know the guys in the East, right? And then, you know, guys like Patrick Ewan, Scotty, Michael, they're all in the East. But the guys on the West Coast, you play in the All-Star games with them. So you're in the locker room. you get to know them over a period of time.

Guys like Carl Malone, David Robinson, Magic, you know, you get stocked, you get to know those guys. But for the most, it was always difficult because, you know, most of us had kids. Our wives were there. And so I wouldn't want to, at that stage in my life, I wouldn't want to be quarantined. Now, if I'm 21 or 24 and I'm single with no kids, it might be fun if it's entertaining and very complete. competitive, but at the latter stage of your careers, you just want to go home and relax. Yeah. I hear you.

No, I hear you. I always tell people this. People are always like, hey, what's it like in the NFL after a game? You know, what kind of crazy parties do you get into whatnot? I'm like, dude, you don't understand. Most people in the NFL, unless you're 21, 22, kind of like you're talking about, I am crawling into an ice bath Sunday night. And I'm trying to eat as much as I can and sleep as much as I can.

And that's about all I'm doing because I just want to spend time with my family and recover. But having said that, the 21-year-old Clyde, if you had to pick somebody off your team to quarantine with that people might think of as a rival, who did you secretly actually not mind? I know you didn't know the Eastern Conference guys as much. You mentioned that coming to a dream team. But was there a friendship that you had in the Western Conference maybe that people might not know about? Oh, no. I mean, all the guys are very friendly. You know, it's always about competition, Chris.

Now here's what I will tell you, like in the 80s and early 90s, guys didn't like guys from other teams that had a different uniform. Not personally. We definitely respected each other. But there was a genuine dislike because we wanted to beat you. Yeah. And so that's it's not that way anymore. Let me just tell you. These guys go out to dinner with each other.

I mean, they hang out all the time. They're hugging and kissing before games. Like, I went to college with Hakeem Alojuan, five slamma, jammer, right? That was our guest. And so he was a college friend. And let me tell you something, in the game, we were like arch enemies. But after the game, we went out to dinner every time, only because we were in college together for three years.

But if he had, you know, if that had not been the case, you know, you're not going to be that friendly with guys on the other team. I played my brother in the pros a few times. So it was pretty odd. It's always odd trying to compete with somebody that you know you love off the court. But you mentioned the dream team. Oh, Chris. Chris, how was that?

You know, I watch you. I met Chris when you were 15, 16, 17. How old were you, Chris? I had to be maybe even 14, 13, 14 when I first met you. 14. And to watch your career and see you develop has been a thing of beauty. Your dad, Howard, and your mama are just awesome people. And so I rooted for you day and night.

And you had an incredible career. So proud of what you're able to accomplish. Thanks. You know, it was, you know, I was going back through your career, and you can identify. I mean, you guys, the Blazers had a lot of success, and you guys were close a lot. But to get that championship towards the end for you,

that just, for me, to win a Super Bowl or two Super Bowls at the end, it just validated all the tough times. And, of course, our times were tougher, and I wasn't a player you were, but, you know, to see you get that championship with the Rockets in your hometown, that had to be pretty cool. And for me, at least that long ride,

it made all the ups and downs worth it. Now, playing my brother, it was tough because the first time I played my brother, we have 40, 50 people in town for the game, as you can imagine, in St. Louis. And the defense I played on in St. Louis was an edgy defense. Let's just say that. We like to stir in the pot and instigate a little bit.

And one of my best friends, his name is William Hayes. And he was a motherfucker to deal with and play against. He was going to test you. And he was actually the other left end on my side. So he would come in and rotate. And a year ago, kind of like what you said, R.D. Line went to Vegas. We took my brother Kyle when he was still in college. We went and did the pool parties.

We did the whole nine yards. Had a great time. Now, we come to play each other on Sunday. And Kyle loses his cool in the second quarter. quarter. When I tell you he dragged my best friend 20 yards like a rag doll and started pummeling him, I'm telling you, William Hayes was hopeless. I had to run, I ran off the sideline to pull my brother off my best friend in a fight. And Kyle, by the grace of God, didn't get ejected. But at the end of the game, I had to go to dinner with all those people. And it was like a funeral. So it's really

tough playing against your brother. And it's even tougher when your brother gets in a fight with your best friend in the middle of a game. So I can definitely identify with that. But last night I'm watching, okay, did you watch last night? You know what? I watched some of it. I'm going to watch it today. I guess I had something to do last night.

I was on a conference, but I want to watch it in its entirety today. The Bulls, they were a great team. They were great. I mean, Michael was better than you think he was. He was phenomenal. Right. And he was even better than you. I mean, you know he's good.

But when you play against him, you find out he's a good. even better than that. But the spoiler for me, and I don't want to spoil the episode for you, one thing that stood out for me was before the series where Mike went for 62 in game two and they lost the Celtics, okay?

Which, for somebody my age, you know, I wasn't watching in real time, but we all know about that series and kind of that transitional period with the powers and the NBA. I know kind of what you echoed, which is that players didn't always, they respect each other, but they

didn't want to hang out. But last night, they showed Danny Aange and Mike playing golf before game two. They went out and played golf before game two. And of course, Mike said to Danny and tell your boys, I got something for him in game two. But how rare was that? Because I'm sitting there thinking, all I've heard is about how cutthroat it was in the NBA in the 80s. And certainly the game was more physical. But dudes were were a lot of guys golfing or was Mike maybe not as as standoffish off the court with his opponents as we thought? No, no.

Mike is going to golf. And hold up. If you're another guy on another team who golfs, you're probably going to end up at the same place. The night club in that city, right? So he probably saw Danny and then obviously it becomes a competition. All right, what are we going to do on the golf course?

So you want to play with him, but they they were probably friends. But If your golfing buddy is a sacred, you know that, right? So there's an asterisk. I played golf with a lot of guys on the other team. But those were the guys who were your friends. And that's, you know, that's not an isolated case because a lot of guys didn't play golf. We're only talking about maybe one or two guys on each team.

So it was a little rare back there, but the guys who loved it always played together with other members of the other team. Because when I come to your city, Chris, I'm going to say, Chris, let's go. What we plan? Clyde, I got a golf course right outside my house. I'm looking at it right now, and I don't have clubs, so you got to teach me. And actually, off, off, you know, as a side note here, Frank Bukowski texted me last night. He said, stop faking your handicap is what he told me to tell you. What a knucklehead.

Yeah, he is a fucking knucklehead. I'm going to tell him, too. I look I'm looking forward to seeing you know whatever episode it gets to where it talks about you know the 92 finals because I'm a long-suffering Knicks fan and I had to actually choose a Western conference team to root for and I like the Blazers. So I like those teams that you guys had I always wonder what might have been in a lot of different ways. had they done a better job organizationally of getting you guys the players you needed to go on a run where you had multiple championships? I mean, obviously the draft was Sam and Jordan. That was a big what might have been. But that series, going into it, what did you know you had to do to win that series?

What did you guys talk about going to that? Because I think you guys played them once that year, right? And you kind of had a sample of the matchup. Yeah, we only played the Bulls once in Chicago, once in Portland, every year, right? So we knew what to expect. We had been playing, you know, 1990, the Trailblazers were in the finals versus the Pistons, and the Pistons beat the Bulls. And so we made it to the final first.

And in 91, we had the best record in the entire NBA, but we lost to the Lakers and the Western Conference finals. and there was a strong sentiment for Michael Magic final. So you can imagine that. And so we lose that. And the Bulls won their first championship in 91. And then 92, people are excited because they're like the Trailblazers are due. They're back in the finals.

The Bulls have a win. It's going to be a great final. So we expected a really competitive final. But that year, Chris, that was the first year I was ever injured. I hurt my right meniscus. and I could have, you know, I could have easily have had surgery in March when I did it. But, you know, they told me I wouldn't do any more damage.

I could barely jump on it, but I could run on it. And so that was the first injury in nine years I'd ever had in the game of basketball. And so now to not only be in the finals, to make it to the finals, playing around basically one and a half leg, to play the Bulls, Michael, in the finals, and on a national showdown was tough because you're injured. back then we didn't put a bullseye on an injury because guys will go kick you right in the leg right so you have to just keep it quiet do the best you can either you play and live with the results or you don't play and so that's the way it was and so to go through all that with one and a half leg

and uh you know i thought our team played well they just had a better team uh they michael was incredible and uh they were able to win that series but it was a lot of fun but to take it even after that. Now, I need surgery, but now you've got a chance to play on the dream team. So now I can't get surgery even then. I got to keep getting my leg drained and do whatever I can do to stay healthy for the duration of the Olympics. I end up not getting my surgery until September of that year, which is a tough time if you've ever been injured, especially for the first time. So that was, those are great memories, but it was bittersweet for me because you were not 100%.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, that had to, I mean, it's hard enough to beat the Bulls and MJ and you guys were the two premier wing guys in the league. And not being at full speed has to had to suck going into that. But, I mean, it felt like to me, you guys were a team that, that were, you know, people were pulling for to get over the hump. You know, you mentioned the Bulls maybe being the better all-round team, but you and MJ were the guys.

Was there a sense that the media tried to make this thing a bigger personal rivalry between y'all than it actually was? I mean, obviously, it seems like from hearing you talk about it, you respect MJ, but obviously you never back down. You never conceded anything to him. Chris, but you know that's not in our DNA. Come on now. Humility is a good thing. You give credit what credit is due. But at the end of the day, you've got to go out and do your job, too.

So you respect your competition. and you live for that competition. I loved it. And so I wouldn't change you for nothing in the world. I'd play on one leg if I could. And so just to be able to compete and do whatever you can do to help your team, that's what sports is all about, you know. And absolutely, you're going to win some, you're going to lose some.

But the sure brilliance of competition is what we thrive on, right? And so you have to be able to live with the results, win, lose a draw. and not make excuses. Because, you know, I'll show you a guy with excuses and I'll show you a loser. You know, you have to live with whatever results you have and give the other team credit. That's one thing guys in our era did very well. What do you think the, well, they also never, I mean, I feel like a lot of guys didn't have the opportunity to make excuses either. You know, no microphone shoved in your face, like to the degree they're having now.

So guys just had to play. I mean, there was no, there was no choice. I mean, there was, you couldn't, you, you couldn't make an excuse. And that, and I want to ask you about that in a moment, the difference between, you know, the media craze now and how players handle it versus back in the day. But with the Blazers, I mean, they broke that thing up over the next three, three years after that run. Here's what it's like.

The great teams in every sport, why are they great? Because they got a lot of good talent all playing at their peak at the same time, right? So you look at the Lakers, the Celtics, the Bulls, all those great teams. Those guys had three or four, five Hall of Famers together on that team at that time. That's why they were great. And you look at those Portland teams and you go where, you know, you had one Hall of Famer, which was me. But then the other guys were really good players. But they never could get that extra player to help you win.

And in a team sports, you've got to have a good. team. It's got to be a team effort. One guy is not going to do it. Two guys are not going to do it. You need a total team effort. And if you come up short, the good teams are going to beat you. That happens in every sport, Chris. Absolutely. And, you know, a miss in free agency or in the draft can be magnified so much in the NBA because there's less players. I wanted to ask you about the Michael and Sam thing in the draft. Obviously, everybody knows that one. But were there near misses, you know, in your tenure in Portland where you said, hey, I'd really like to snag that guy or we can make this trade.

And that would have helped you guys take that thing to the next level, or was it just a collection of things? Yeah, well, I was always in the general manager's office trying to figure out a way to get better players. You know, I came from five Slimma Jammer, where we had a really just an all-star team of college players. And so I was used to winning, playing with a lot of great players. And then I get to Portland, and I used to laugh with Magic Johnson all the time.

I go, Magic, you think you really are something. And you are. You're doing good. You're Magic Johnson. But if you let me play with Kareem and Worthy, we'd be pretty good. Oh, yeah. And so it's one of those things where if you're playing with a great team, then you're going to be a really great team.

But if you've got guys on 10-day contracts and you're playing against those great teams, the expectation level is going to be a lot lower. Yeah, I remember you guys playing, well, I don't remember it in real time, but looking back, you guys playing against the Lakers with all those great players and you had, what, three, four guys on 10-day contract? On 10-day contract? I was like, really, dude, how are you going to give me to battle with this? But that's for it.

Some general managers are better than others. And when you own one of those teams that's not quite up to par, Chris, you still have to be professional, you still have to go out and play. But your expectation level is not going to be as high. Looking at the draft and everybody knows that near miss with Jordan and Sam, and I know you guys had a number of wing players accumulated from the last few years, including yourself. And obviously, you were one of the best players in league. So it might have been counterintuitive to snag Mike on top of you and then what you already had in that position. But did you volley for Mike to be the pick?

And do you think that had he been the pick, it would have changed? basketball in some way that we could never imagine? Absolutely. Let me give you the real rundown, Chris. You know Michael Thompson, Clay Thompson's dad, right? Yeah. Who played for the boy. Michael Thompson was the number one pick in 78 from the Bahamas,

went to Minnesota. Well, Michael was a 6-10 center who could really play, averaging about 18, 10, and two blocks, right? So we had a center. And so when we lost the coin flip for Hakeem Elijah one, We recall the wrong heads or tail, right? So we lost the coin slip, so we lose Hakeem. So now you go from not getting Hakeem,

and now is Sam Boyer, Jordan, and Michael Thompson and I went to the general manager's office, a guy named Stu Enmond. And Stu Ehrman, we begged him to draft Jordan. Michael Thompson said in these exact words in 1984, he said, Stu, if you draft Jordan, him and Clyde going dominate this league for the next 10, 15 years. Are you kidding me?

That's a no-brain. Stu Ehrman's direct response was, Michael, we need a seven-footer to be legit. Remember the Bill Walton era as the championship they won in Portland? He said they need a seven-footer to be legit. Jordan is another two-guard, like Clyde. We can't keep repeating the same problems. Now, this is what he meant by that. We had a guy named Jim Paxon from Dayton, who was a great player,

All-Star, who was starting two-guard, right? And I was coming along, and they didn't know if I was going to play the one, two, or the three the next year, right? So, and Michael Thompson told him, with no hesitation, Klein Jordan can play four or five positions. Just put him on the floor, right? And of course, Stu Allen was like, no, we got to have positions. And so the year before they drafted me, they drafted a guy named Jeff Lamp from Virginia. He was the two guard. They had Jim Patton.

Yeah, UBA. Yeah, I remember him. Yeah, and then they had Jim Paxon, who was an off-star. They had me. They drafted me. They're like, we can't keep drafting the same position year after year. That's the real reason why they didn't do it. And that's a shame because I'm thinking about winning and getting these good guys on your team

because we want to play at a very high level. That's the reason we play. And so not only did I not get Hakeem, I didn't get Michael. And I'm like, wow. And Sam, who's a great guy and had a lot of. a talent, to his credit. It's not his fault. His body just gave out. But had him been healthy, yeah, had he been healthy, we would have been pretty good. But he, you know, he just wasn't healthy very often. But it was a no-brainer back then. Michael Jordan was the obvious choice. Maybe for the

first spot, certainly for the second. Well, plus, I mean, you know, Sam couldn't stay healthy. You know, it's tough for him because had he been picked in any other number of drafts, you know, nobody remembers. It's not a big deal. You know how many misses or relative misses there are in the top 10 in the NBA draft perpetually? He just, he had to be the most unlucky person in the history of anybody who got drafted in the first round of any major sport. Yeah, because, you know, he just drafted before Michael,

who became one of the greatest players ever. And then Portland, here's the problem. They made the same mistake years later when they drafted Greg Oden, over Kevin Durant. Yeah. So they were bitten by the injury bug. So how did Sam handle that? Was he, because that's the one thing that gets lost a lot.

And whenever I think about it, I'm like, you know, I kind of feel bad for him because all he did was work his ass off to get picked in the first round. He was just fine in the NBA. Couldn't stay healthy, as you mentioned. But, you know, obviously there weren't a lot of guys that were Jordan. So did he remain mad at him? mentally strong through that? Does he carry that burden? How did that go? Sam, good question, Chris. Thank you for asking that. Sam was a great guy, one of the best guys ever. He's got a great sense of

humor, but Sam was a competitor at heart. And so he was longing to play and help out and help the team, but he just couldn't get it done. So he had a couple of good years with the New Jersey Nets and with the Lakers later on in his career when he got semi-healthy. But, I'm telling you, Sam Bowie, if he had been healthy, would have been one of the better big men in the game. And at that time, the monster was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. So they felt they needed someone to kind of balance him out. Yeah. What would have happened if it was you and Jordan?

How do you, if you were the coach, if you are a basketball historian, how do you work that out in your head? Like, what would you guys have been able to do and how would the style of play been altered in that era? of just what you guys did together. Well, you know, we did everything so you could put us anywhere. Also, you know, we obviously, good players will find a way to play together 100% of the time, right, and make it easy. But playing with Jordan would have been great and easy to do. But we also had a guy named in Kiki Vanderway,

who was averaging about 29 points a game and Michael Thompson on that team. You talked about one of the best offensive teams ever assembled. That would have been it. Yeah. Yeah. We have five to ten championships. I guarantee you. Yeah.

I believe you. And even in that era where you could make an argument and I'm watching that, listen, you can't take anything away from what Mike did and what the Bulls did and what Phil did and that whole group. Because, I mean, just like watching last night, there's a whole generation of kids right now that didn't realize how good Scotty Pippin is and was. Right. Exactly. I mean, I think that was the best.

biggest revelation in the first two episodes last night was if you were born in the 90s or in the 2000s, which makes me feel old as hell, there's a lot of people watching, you know, fixated on the documentary, they're probably saying, holy shit, Scotty Pippel and was good. There were a lot of good players on that team. But I wonder if in the 80s the Bulls had played, you know, with the Lakers, with the Celtics, with the Pistons, with y'all. How many? championships they would have been able to win. Well, I tell you what, it took the Bulls a long time to get out to east. Remember, from the 76ers with Moses and Doc, the Celtics with Bird and Parrish,

the pistons with Isaiah and Joe and Lambert, those guys are all super teams. And so for Chicago, just to get out to east was a big deal. And for the West, the Lakers had the lock. I mean, they had four or five number one picks playing together at the same time. Who's going to beat them? them, Chris. And so for Portland to get out of the West, when we did, was a phenomenal feat. Michael and I both played at a time, and we're playing against super teams. And those super teams were in supermarkets. And so Michael happened to be in a great market in Chicago, but Portland

was not a big market at the time. I think that hurt us. I really do. Right. And you wonder, had Mike been picked in Portland, he would have realized what you probably realized, which is that, while Portland is probably a wonderful place to play, marketability-wise, I mean, you're, you know, the household name factor, although you're one of the best to ever play the game, you know, imagine if you played in Chicago. Oh, New York. Oh, my God.

Yeah, or New York. People would say that all the time. If you played in New York, oh, everybody would have a candy bar named after you. Right. We played the game for a sheer competition. I didn't play the game to be marketed. That wasn't a part of the game. the 80s, right? I wish it had been

because it wouldn't have been fun. But I just wanted to play against the best competition, Chris. And for me, let me tell you, the biggest moment of my NBA career was the first day I put on that uniform and you realize you have made an NBA team. That was

my dream. Everything else was downhill. Well, getting to the end of it, as far as your career was concerned, you ended up back home in Houston. You know, and I This is when I really started watching basketball live. So I can remember you ending up in Houston.

It was late in the season, right, in a trade. Yep. It was Valentine's Day at the off-stop break, 1995. I had a chance. Well, Portland was, they were starting to, they traded away my big guy, and they were starting to dilute a championship-level team. And so I was like, they're trying to rebuild. So let me get out of here while I can still play,

so I can pursue a chance at a championship. And the opportunity to go home to Houston and play with Hakeem again, who had won the championship the year before, was a tremendous honor. And I didn't think it was going to happen, but when it did, I was excited and exuberated. And lo and behold, Chris,

were able to win a championship right away. Now, you know, that's something out of a storybook. Yeah, it had to feel like a dream. It had to feel like a dream. a couple things about that little time period that were really interesting to me. The first being that I think a lot of people think about, you know, MJ was out. Well, MJ came back late that same year and you guys, I think, I mean, you swept the magic, right? And the magic swept the bulls easily.

And MJ was back and the magic was just young and they were good. They had a young Shaquille O'Neill. They had a young Penny Hardaway who was phenomenal. They had guys like Dennis Scott, Horace Grant. I mean, they had some really good players on that team. And they were well-cooked. And so that's the reason they swept the Bulls that year. They were better.

Michael obviously was not in his tip-top form, but he was at a high level, playing at a very high level. Yeah. I mean, the second thing about that thing was you guys win the championship. The next year, I think it's the next year. Was it the next year you guys added Chuck, or was it two years later? It was two years later.

1997, my last two years, I played with Charles Barkley. And we're all getting a little up in age, but very competitive. Now, Charles is one of my all-time favorites. Also, you know, with this Philly presence, I got to meet him a couple times in Philly. He was terrific, everything you'd want Charles Barkley to be. But when he got to you guys, he was kind of, I know he had to take a back seat a little bit and be more of the rebounder, right? I mean, he wasn't the guy from his son's days or the Sixers' days. How did he make that adjustment?

What kind of a teammate was he? Was he everything he was cracked up to be? Well, we all were, you know, not quite as good as we had been. I was in year 13 or 14, and Charles was in year 12 or 13. And so Hakeem was in year 12 or 13. And so we're still good. And we had 157 games. and could have won more, but we started resting toward the last month.

But we were primed to compete for a championship his first year in Houston. We got upset in game seven in Utah. Have we not lost that series, I think we would have met the Bulls in the finals. That would have been a lot of fun. That would have been great. And then the next year, Charles gained a little weight, was overweight, never really got in shape. But still had to, you know, Charles, when he got that ball down,

low, he was tough. I mean, he could still give up, he could still put up numbers anytime he wanted to. The thing is, the consistency. The consistency was not there for all of us, not only for him, but for all of us. But on any given night, we could all give you 30.

That roster, you weren't your primes, but still, damn good players, and you won almost 60 games. I look back at that run that year, and I know you guys swept Minnesota, okay? And then you go up 3-1 on the Sonics, and then they come back in

fourth game seven. So you get to Utah, and I think that's a six-game series. Do you think that letting the Sonics back in a little bit contributed to maybe an older nucleus running out of gas a little bit in Utah? If it hadn't been such a long series in Seattle, might we have seen a Houston Chicago final, and how would that matchup have been? Oh, that would have been great, Chris. I mean, it's just

great competition. And, you know, I, I hate the what if, as you know, we've been talking about a few of them. But what actually happened was pretty good. Utah was a better team that year. They had gotten tired and getting beat for so many years, not only by Houston, but years before that, by Portland. And so they were sick of me. They were sick of Elijah won.

Yeah, I don't blame them. They kept beating them year after year. So the long of averages kicked in, and they won that series. Give them credit. Is it unfair to, judge Chuck by the rings thing because I've heard you talk about this before you know it's and you certainly alluded to it a little bit in this interview is it you know it's a team game and I and I see people get on Chuck about the ring thing but he's one of the best players I

ever saw. Chuck could really play he was a phenomenal player he that you know he people don't know what a good player he was I think his defense waned at the end of his career and you and you know that that wasn't a strong suit but he was a good defender when he was young But at the end of the day, he had a Hall of Fame career. Nothing to be ashamed of. I love playing with Chuck. We'd go out to dinner each and every night. And you can remember that I was doing that time when he was fighting.

He was knocking people out. Yeah, I know he got to fight with Oakley in preseason that year. Yeah, so the coach would always say, Clyde, you watch him. You go with him, you're watching, right? So Chuck and I have a good friend. And so I'd say, Chuck, what we're doing tonight? And I'd make sure I'd sit by him and make sure he didn't go out. to anybody.

But he got to lose a couple times. That's awesome. Chuck and Chuck. He's a knucklehead, but he's a lot of fun to be around. And we had a good time. I want to hit you with a couple quick hitters before I let you go again. I really appreciate the time, Clyde. Okay, so I heard that you once dunked on 11-foot-one rim in Portland.

That was the record. How high a rim could you dunk on a day? can still dunk. Where, where, where, where's the vert at right now at how old? How old are you now, Clive? Oh, Chris, it'd be hard to jump over. You know, the thing is, as you get older, you know, I can still jump because you don't lose it. I stand decent shape, right? But it hurts when you land. It hurts when you land. I hear that, dude. But back in the hey-day, Chris, I could put my hand on top of the backboard. Yeah. The whole backboard. And there are only a few guys I've ever heard about doing that. Bill

Russell was one. They say Bill Russell, if you left a dollar on top of the backboard, he could take the dollar and drop some change. That was Bill Russell. And so Chamberlain obviously was the other. And I hadn't heard of too many guys being able to touch

the top of the backboard. So back in the day, I got lucky once or twice. Those guys were taller, so I'm going to give you the nod there. Okay, so who was the most media-friendly player in the 80s and 90s if things were the way they are now. Who would have been the guy with the production company?

Who would have been the guy with their own blog, their own show? Who would have been the guy on every network every day? Wow, man, that's a great question. It wouldn't have been the superstar guys like you have today because those guys are too busy. It's too much work. Like you said earlier, you spend all your time. icing, eating, getting prepared for the next meal.

That's all we did. Yeah. And so I wouldn't have time to do any blogging, trust. It would have been the guys who didn't play as much, like the seventh or eight men, who had time to do that kind of stuff. But, you know, guys are media friendly. We were media savvy in the 80s and 90s. But nothing like what you guys have gone through.

So is there one guy that you can remember you played with? that we were robbed of not knowing their ridiculous personality. Oh, yeah. I played with a guy named Allah Abdonabee, who went to Duke. Okay. Was the one of the funniest most entertaining guys

ever. I think he still does color commentary for one of the NBA teams, but hysterical guy. He kept me laughing the whole time. Sam Cassell, who's an assistant coach for the clipples, one of the funniest guys you'll ever be around. Trust you.

That's great. I remember Sam. Change one rule today. If you were the commissioner of the NBA, you're the commissioner of the big three, but you never know someday. What rule are you changing about the game today or the way it's structured? I would change the one and done rule. I would change a couple of things. But Adam is such a stand-up guy. I love it. I mean, he does a phenomenal job. And so I'd hate to say I'd change anything because. because Adam is going to eventually get it all right, as he always does. But the NBA, it's a great product. Love watching it.

Can't wait for it to come back when it's safe. And we're going to miss football, Chris. You know, I'm a big football fan. Oh, baseball, too, and tennis and golf. Who's your favorite NFL team? Because I don't know if I've heard this one. Well, you know, I grew up loving the Cowboys, right? even though I live in Houston.

Houston, all this, and then they went to Tennessee, right? And he still had the same players, so I was rooting for Tennessee because it was the same team. And now, you know, I really don't have a team about the last 15 years. I was rooting for your Eagles just because it's a great story. And the Eagles have struggled for so long. It was great to see you guys win. Plus, I was rooting for you, Chris. I appreciate that, man.

Closest comp to you in today's game. Oh, I hate to compare because you might be doing a guy at this service. Man, hey, if I'm in the NBA today and I woke up and I heard Clyde Drexler compared me to him, I would be flattered. Thank you, Chris. But, you know, I've always been one of those guys that say you're good enough on your own merits. You don't really need to be compared to anybody, right? It's like they have that conversation, who's better, LeBron, Kobe, or Michael.

Give me either one of them, dude. It wasn't matter. Who's better? Kareem, Russell, or Chamberlain? Give me either one of them. I mean, those guys are phenomenal. So I've never seen anybody better than like Dr. James or better than Larry Bird. You know, who's better than those guys?

They're all phenomenal. So it's hard to make those kind of comparisons, you know. I don't even like it. Well, isn't it also really hard to compare players, A, across generation, but B, ignoring the context with which, and we've talked about this, players play. I mean, you know, one team, they might have better potential with one player. You know, the next team, their skill set, their strengths might be better unlocked with a different type of player. So I never, I know everybody's doing this MJ or LeBron thing during this whole documentary. That's if you

turn on first take. That's kind of what we're talking about. But I think it's a useless exercise to me. Completely. Because you never go to win that. I mean, there is no real definitive answer. And you just say both them are phenomenal. They dominated during their day and that's all you can really go by. And so you have to respect excellence. And to say

someone was better, are you kidding? I mean, it was better than Ellen Baylor. I mean, I've heard some of the greatest ever say, he's the best player they've ever seen. Right. And so, you know, you got all these differences of opinion, but what you do is you respect excellence. And

that's what I do well. I give got out of credit what credit is you. And Chris, love talking to you. You've been a stand-up guy all your life. Anytime I can come on and yuck it up, it's a pleasure. Well, I appreciate you, Clyde. And we'll have you on another time and stay safe. I look forward to the Big Three.

I look forward to it. Thank you very much and continued success, sir. Thank you so much, ma'am. See you. All right. Bye-bye. Okay, so that was Clyde Drexler. What a cool dude.

I mean, that's somebody who has a really good perspective. It's interesting to me, the undertone of, listen, I respect the hell out of MJ and all these greats, but I don't like putting labels on anything. And it didn't seem like he, although I did, I heard at one point that Clyde had anointed Will as probably the goat. But it didn't seem like he was ready to just go ahead and concede anything at any point in his career. and even now, respected Jordan, respect the guys he played against. But there's something with Clyde that I always wonder, and I didn't want to ask him about it the entire interview,

but does he resent the fact that he played in a small market and his tenure on the Blazers, which were not a superior team to a lot of the teams they were playing, overlap with so many great teams? I mean, how many titles could he have won with a Robin, like Scotty Pippen. And you have to wonder, as a competitor, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say he's better than Jordan,

but I certainly can understand in a competitor's mind how he might think, hell, if I'd have had a little more help or if I'd have been playing in a different time period, maybe we have more titles. So interesting talking to Clyde. Great, great having him on. Seems like a really good dude. And I'm excited for the big three.

things that we really are desperate to see if it's safe, sporting events. You know, the big three, you know, the draft this Thursday. We had MJ last night. We're going to have MJ every week through May. You know, maybe the part of this thing where there's absolutely nothing to talk about sports related is kind of past. That doesn't mean we're going to get back to normal or society is going to be. going along with the opportunity, the trend for opportunity for sports content.

But the draft is going to give us some stuff to talk about this week. It's going to give us something to watch. And listen, I know it can seem trivial to have people's names flashing across the ticker as they make millions of dollars, you know, 18, 19-year-olds. And it is a trying time for people economically. But we always say that in hardship, you know, sports can be an outlet for people. So why is it different now? You know, and I would ask, was it insensitive to get back to playing football and getting back to playing football a week after 9-11?

No, the country needed that. So I think that sports can boost morale. If we can do it safely, great. Big three, I hope that's coming down the pipe eventually. That reality show seems really interesting. And then, you know, the draft this week. I'm going to give you my draft rundown in like five minutes based on a Mel Kuiper, you know, whatever is 47.0 mock draft.

You know, I'm excited about it. Look forward to it. Hope everybody can do it safely. Hope nobody gets hacked. Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that we're going to like see somebody's dick mid-Zoom and like the Russians are going to hack the draft process and it's going to be just a disaster for the NFL? If it's not, and it runs smoothly, I'm pretty excited about it.

So as we look at it, you know, the biggest question marks position group-wise for me are a wide receiver and quarterback, okay? You know, D-line, I'm looking at it. It's not a dominant class. You're going to see Chase Young picked high. You're going to see the kid from LSU is probably the next highest picked edge rusher, and that could be 10, 15 picks. I don't know.

You know, wide receivers, very deep. Everybody knows that right now. But the thing about the wide receiver class is that a lot of scouts don't think there's a top end hit like a Calvin Johnson or a Julio or some Hall of Fame or my favorite player out of the wide receiver class. I know I'm not alone here is C.D. Lamb. Where does he get picked? Or does somebody like Judy better? Or is there a wild card? Jefferson has rows on boards. I don't know if he's going to rise into the top 10, though. Uh, Kuyper's got him going, I think, 15 to the Broncos. You know, so one, how deep is the class? Two, where, like, for instance, in the teens, do you snag a wide receiver? Do you just wait? Because there's, there's going to be still good players, the depth of that class in the second round. So why reach? Um, and then, and then, you know, and then three, who's going to be, who's going to hit on one of these guys?

because it does seem like out of the first round guys, you know, not all of them are going to pan out. There's going to be an abundance of wide receivers taken early. Quarterback, it's a flawed quarterback class. It really is. Every guy has a flaw, and we'll go through that really quickly right now. Let's go through the top five as Mel has it. And we're going to talk a lot more about this thing on Wednesday.

You know, he's got Burrow going to Sinci. Okay, it's the one big unknown is how much Sinci really. likes Burrow, but we can safely assume that he's headed to Sincere. You also have to wonder how much geography plays a factor in this thing. If Miami is staring down the barrel at Joe Burrow at one, it's a lot different than if Cincinnati is staring down the barrel at the hometown kid. I know it's inconsequential on the field, but from a perception standpoint, a miss on a Joe Burrow, if you let him walk and he ends up in Miami or somewhere in some weird alternate universe that Cincinnati doesn't like Burrow and likes Herbert better or something.

not saying it's going to happen. And Burrow is a hit in Miami. It exponentially raises the disappointment because the kid grew up an hour away from Cincinnati. And I know fans are probably praying to get it right. And getting it right could be Burrow, but he could be a one-year wonder at LSU. People have talked about that.

People talk about his arm. People talk about Joe Brady, his departure. Obviously, you're going to find out how important he was to that offense, but you're also going to find out maybe eventually here how important Brady was to burrow. At two, there's an interesting spot. Chase Young is the consensus pick for Washington.

Hey, defensive head coach. You've got Allen, Colin, sweat, pain, and you could add Young to that. Now, you don't have a second rounder, so you could be a tradeback candidate. Maybe you don't love Chase Young as much to everybody else. I don't know. So you could trade back, accumulate picks. The interesting thing here is Kerrigan. People have really rode off Ryan Kerrigan.

Ryan Kerrigan's had some injuries, but he had five and a half sacks last year. He had 13 and 13 the two years prior, respectively. This guy has done nothing but due numbers. Yes, he wins some favorable matchups, and he just relentlessly rushes. That's what's on his mind. So he's not a Von Miller necessarily. But this guy's damn good, and he's had a really, really good career, wasted in Washington, but a really, really, really good career.

And we're only giving them a year's leash here before we just write them off. I know there's a four-three thing. I know you've got to put your hand in the dirt. I got to look closely at the contract stuff. But why has he got to be the third end if they do select Chase Young? Shouldn't Montez sweat have to prove it? Why is everybody saying, and I'm reading this, well, Kerrigan could be the Chris Long, you know, the vet who's over the hill.

I was 33, 34, when I ended up in. in New England and Philly. And I had really good production from a pressure in sack standpoint. But Kerrigan could still string together a double-digit year, especially if you rush him in volume and you don't fuck him over. I don't know why people are writing him off so much. I can't quite, am I doing that? I can't quite put my finger on why.

I can't quite. But I think of another guy had 80 plus sacks and was two years removed from a 13-sack year. Mind you, there was another 13-sack year before that. you would feel differently about it. Okay, Detroit. Okuda is the consensus pick. But what about an Indy New York Jets type trade?

You know, a trade back that Indy did a couple years ago to facilitate Sam Darno going to New York. Detroit could haul in a bunch of picks. Listen, they had a franchise quarterback last year that got hurt. They were at the top of the NFL in a bunch of categories offensively. You know, they could end up in, I'm not saying they're like the Niners, but they could end up in a situation like that where the injury to their franchise quarterback

has catapulted them up the draft board. They could trade back and get a number of picks. They could trade back with somebody and pick up a corner later. You know, Patricia and Quinter are a short list or leash. We'll see what happens. If I'm then, maybe I'm thinking if I don't absolutely love Okuda

and don't think he's going to change the game for us in a year, volume might be better. New York F4, he's got Simmons. Okay, if I'm picking in the top five, Simmons for me, if I know how to use him, and you should because the NFL is in nickel as much as anybody. They're in sub as much as any time in the history of the game. Simmons is a slam dunk. I like Simmons relative to his position better than anybody in the top five.

And that includes Chase Young. Listen, there's not a big tackle drop off either. So if you want to wait, you can snag one later for the Giants. but if they are looking at tackle, it's Wurfs, Thomas, Bechton, and those are all three interesting case studies in how the Giants are thinking. Worf's would be the upside guy, Thomas would be the pro-ready guy from Georgia,

and Bechton would be the big powerful, tantalizing physical specimen that, hey, with a little bit of coaching, he could be Orlando Pace, could he be, you know, Ogden, could it be one of these massive tackles? You saw what Trent Brown has done for two teams the last two years. He's a big, powerful guy like that. Okay, with Simmons, looking at his numbers, you know, he played 100 snaps outside linebacker 300 and inside

linebacker 250 in the slot 250 of free safety. He's played all over the field. I don't think you can go wrong plugging him into that defense. Miami at 5 Mel Kuyper has Herbert in a bit of a shocker here for some. Not to me. Okay. I'm not high on Tua right now. It's not like I don't like Tua or don't think he could be a great player, but the health stuff, it's too much of a scare for me. listen, even if he gets over the hump and he's good in the first four or five years, you usually want a quarterback that you draft in the top five to be at least a two-contract guy, a long-term solution. And I don't know, man, like that hip thing, it's a ticking time bomb.

It could be a second contract minefield. He's an RPO guy. In college, they kind of ran a simple thing, man. I mean, it was pitch and catch. You know, you worry about the injuries. It's not just the hip. Two high ankle surgeries. I had a high ankle sprain that I played through my contract year, shot it up every week.

I didn't have surgery. It was a motherfucker. It changed my ankle flexion forever. And as a pass rusher, I never got it back, okay? Now, I got paid because I had 13 sacks. But I don't know, man. Was it worth the risk? It changed my mobility.

He has two surgeries, you know, repairing high ankles. He also fell hard a lot at Bama. I mean, he got beat up. First off, players at Bama. get beat up all the time. That's a rep that Bama has accumulated. Now, it's not, you know, at quarterback right now, you wouldn't think quarterbacks get beat up, you know, like position players at Bama, but he's no, he's no exception. Big injury history, and I don't know how much they grinded him. Steve Young's the comp, you know, but on the lefty topic, another thing is

the last five players picked in the first round as quarterbacks. who are lefties. Only one wasn't a bust, and that was Michael Vicks. So take that for what it's worth. Miami with Herbert, they've got three picks in the first round. If they can nail Herbert, if Herbert's a hit for them, I mean, this is something that could have them set for the next 10, 15 years, and they could be contenders. Of course, that's what you say anytime you pick in the top five with a quarterback, but Miami has already started to accumulate talent through the draft. I mean, their window could be wide open for a while here if Herbert is the right guy, and they do take him. At six, the chargers, Tua, you know, again, you could just take Cam Newton and take a proven commodity.

If he's healthy and you're satisfied, he could last another four or five years. You know, Tua could last four or five years, and he's not a proven commodity in the NFL. I don't know. Carolina, he's got Derek Brown up there. I'm interested to see how far Kinlaw rises. He's one of my favorite players in the draft. He's got him going 18, I believe. I think he might not last that long, but if Miami gets him at 18, man, they're having a heck of a first round.

At 8, he has Arizona grabbing worse. Don't mind it. Again, I like Andrew Thomas. I'd play it safe with a tackle instead of taking the upside guy. And he's got Jacksonville taking Judy first to add to Shark and Westbrook. Shark and Westbrook. It could be a really, really nasty receiving court, but who's throwing to him? I mean, you're going all in on on on on on on on on on shu there and then

Cleveland attendees got taken back then which I think makes sense they got Conklin you know in an alternate universe if the Browns you know lost a few of those meaningless games they won last year could you imagine if they had Chase young and Miles Garrett will never get to see it but we could get to see Garrett and Clownie which would be a motherfucker um and then the Raiders that the big question for me as I go through the back end of this first round is the Raiders What do they do? They have two picks in the teens. Mel has C.J. Henderson from Florida, the corner, who, by the way, people don't think the gap between him and Okuda is huge. They got them snagging him at 12. He also has, on this mock draft, I think he has the Raiders snagging Jordan Love at like 19. And I actually like that. I don't know about Jordan Love, but I like the fact that I like the possibility. that the Raiders snag a quarterback.

I really do. I feel like they've been angling toward that for quite a while. You know, Gruden hasn't really had his young guy to groom yet. They could snag him. One of the picks of the first round here could be C.D. Lamb at about 13 with the Niners here that Mel has said will happen. They lost Sanders in free agency. He should be the first receiver off the board, in my opinion.

But if he falls to the Niners, good for them. They'll need to snack one in the first. They don't have a two, three, or four. They could trade down. But they have two first round picks. So Jefferson from LSU has been rising, and Mel thinks he's going to go 15 to Denver. And that'd be a good thing for the Eagles who are definitely going to take a wide receiver at 21. It would be howie Rosenem the move, make the splash, get somebody flashy, somebody fast,

because you got to surround Carson with speed. They've been trying to get somebody to take the top off the defense since Tori Smith. And Tori wasn't a Hall of Famer, but Tori Smith was a good player and a guy that could stretch the field and unlocks a lot of those talents that Carson has. If you just play pitching catch with Carson and check down stuff, you're not going to see what makes him so potentially great. And, you know, Mike Wallace had injuries. He would have been the guy two years ago. then Deshawn Jackson was the guy for a few games, got hurt.

You can't count on older guys right now to stay healthy. You got to grab somebody young. I don't think they'd reach for Rager at 21, but I wouldn't be shocked if, you know, Rugs is not there. And Mel Kuyper says that the Eagles will grab rugs at 21. I could see that. People rave about Rugs. He's a high character guy, a tough guy, all that.

you know Jefferson very good player good number two he's climbed all-round guy it'd be good for the Eagles if he's taking at 15 I think because I think the Eagles need a rare speed guy and I think that's what they'd want so as you look late in it late in the first round another thing that stood out was Minnesota's got a couple back-to-back picks you know that's why they got rid of digs you can grab a wide receiver in the draft it's deep you know accumulating the picks. They could be a contender this year again. And they have 12 in total in the draft.

The only running back taken in the first round, according to Mel Kuyper, is going to be Swift from Georgia at 32, Kansas City. They didn't have anybody consistently toting the rock all year. I think their leading rush was about 500 yards. I know it's not a necessity for them, but it sure couldn't hurt if that kid panned out. So I'll be really interested to see what happens Thursday. I'm excited about the draft.

I think we all use the distraction, and we'll dive into it more Wednesday, but that's kind of where my mind's at as I read this Mel Kuyper mock draft. Y'all take care. Hope you enjoyed the documentary Last Dance last night. I know I did. I hope you enjoyed the Clyde interview, and we'll talk about the draft this week.