Green Light with Chris Long - UFC Fight Island with Katlyn Chookagian. Princeton Head Football Coach Bob Surace. Mailbag.

Episode Date: July 10, 2020

0:58 - Open and UFC/Mortal Combat Idea. 13:43 - Mailbag. 35:16 - Princeton Head Football Coach Bob Surace on Ivy League's plan for Athletics, Coaching Matt Patricia, and Coaching During COVID. 1:06:53 - UFC's Katlyn "Blonde Fighter" Chookagian on UFC Fight Island, Recovering after Fights, and Training during COVID. Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. 🌍🏀🏈SUBSCRIBE NOW ⚾🏒⛰️ http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So I was at RPI. I get to coach this Division III offensive line. Everybody's about 6'5-290. We have a guard who's the strongest guy in America. And Mattie P. Look then like he looks now. He was just the best worker, smartest player, best technician. So we're on my new coach.

We're in camp. I'm like, Matt's got to start. This guy was a world strength bench press camp. And the coach, you can't start him. He can't bench 300 pounds. I'm like, coach, this is the, best guy. Maddie P graded higher than any other offensive line that we had. So I've been up here a week in Montana and that is flown by. I don't know if I ever want to

leave. I feel like this every time I come up here, but I got my tree dashers with me from all birds. And they were made for this. I thought they were made for Virginia. They're made for Montana too. They're lightweight. They're tough. They're made of all natural materials. And all birds is the sponsor of the Greenlight Pod. So we're batting a thousand there. They look fantastic. Listen, guys, you know, some of these athletic shoes really functional, but they don't look great.

I need to be in style at all times, okay? So I'm thrilled that Allbirds gives me an opportunity to look good. You know, as I've said before, look good, feel good, play good. That's what we said in football. Same thing with shoes. just walking around as a dad. Allbirds checks all the boxes, functionality, good looks, the whole thing.

And I'm thrilled that they are sponsoring the Greenlight Pot. Go check out Tree Dashers at allbirds.com. Good looking shoes. Happy Friday, everybody. This is Greenlight Pod. And I'm your host, Chris Long. And this is like day two or day three on Instagram, moving away from the Twitter world.

And I got to say, not to disrespect my Twitter listeners, my IG folks are really awesome. They have sent in a lot of great questions, mailbag, that sort of thing. They've really dove into this this Sean topic that's kind of blown up. I mean,

that was just a mailbag question I was answering the other day. Kind of expecting that by the time, anybody heard it. There would be a few people condemning those comments. Obviously, unfortunately, I fucking hate being like, a guy that makes the news for saying things that are obvious.

That's probably my least favorite part about my life as a podcaster. So I was not excited to see myself on ESPN and Fox News picked it up. But I'm not going to let a fear of going viral or who picks it up or how they twist my quote deter me from telling you all how I feel about shit. So listen, I think the education process has begun with him. And again, not the main event in our country right now, but something we have to address. Wouldn't you know it? Black lives still need to matter, even though we talked about anti-Semitism for a day. So anyways, on to the less heavy stuff, the lighter stuff.

We have a couple guests today. And they're very different. We've got Caitlin Chikagian, who is a UFC fighter. She's going to be up second today behind Bob Serase, who is the head coach at Princeton. Obviously, Caitlin's going to be able to give us a little insight on what it's like fighting in the era of COVID, training, you know, all the minutia that goes into. I mean, as we peel back the onion on so many of these sports, there's so many things that, like, you don't think of. Just today, they talked about in the NFL, one of the protocols is going to be guys can't, you know, dab up, give hugs at midfield. you know, and trade jerseys.

That sucks. And it also doesn't make a lot of sense to me because you're already going to be like ramming each other, you know, in the head with each other's face masks all game. And like droplets are just going to be flying. I mean, it's the most high contact, you know, high capacity roster sport in America. And then to think that like after the game you can't shake hands with your buddies, it's kind of weird. There's going to be a ton of things people don't think about from like a communication standpoint in the NFL. We've talked about that stuff. The NBA is the same way.

It's no different in the UFC. And, you know, having already done these interviews earlier today as I shoot the open to wrap the day up, again, I just got done doing an IG live about our new partnership at Waterboys with Navajo Nation. So check us out at waterboys.org forward slash hometown to learn more about that partnership. and us trying to bring water to, you know, onto the Navajo Nation. It's been a pack day. Two interviews, they were really good. Caitlin was great.

She's from Quaker Town, PA. She's a birds fan, spoiler. And, you know, I think she was really insightful about some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that fighters are going to have to deal with and have already been dealing with. I mean, not to mention if we were doing this domestically, and she's fought in one fight a couple months ago in Vegas, you know, empty arena, that sort of thing and the training and the short rest periods and like the impromptu phone calls and invitations that they're dealing with.

Also, Fight Island, which she is not experienced but knows firsthand what it's like, is a whole another animal. I mean, that's an Abu Dhabi. Think about the time change. Think about the travel, the testing, that sort of thing. It's a totally different animal than just fighting, you know, in the UFC. most years. And the thing about the UFC is it kind of goes year-round, right? So this is something that for them is going to have to be in for the sports world could conceivably be the most consistent

respite for people who are bored with no sports through 2021. So she was really insightful. You know, one thing about, you know, the UFC, if we're doing this quarantine stuff with no fans in the stands, I would love to see like kind of a Mortal Kombat street fighter. type setup where these guys and girls go to these exotic places to fight. Like stage one, you're in the jungle, you know, in the rainforest, you set up an octagon of sorts. You know, stage two might be in the Swiss Alps. You just, you know, drop a fucking octagon on the side of a 7,000 foot mountain, beautiful

backdrop. You could do one on top of an oil rig over the Gulf of Mexico. Just get real exotic with this thing. to make it interesting. I'm kind of for that. I mean, like vary the backgrounds a little bit. Make this thing, you know, add a little flare. Why can't we do it?

I don't know. Think up. Where would you want to see a UFC fight on top of the Rocky steps? That'd be dope. I think we can do it. This is the one time we can do it. You know, do one like outside at Yankee Stadium. It'd be cool, man.

You don't even need fans, but for the viewers on TV, it'd be pretty dope. you know, a cherry on top to a sport that's already pretty, pretty doable in the pandemic of all sports. I mean, it's an individual sport and those are naturally going to be better off. But Caitlin gets into some of the issues, but we do talk about how it's conducive to this sort of emergency situation. Now, you know, when it comes to coach Bob Serres, this is a great interview. He's my kind of guy. I like him. I could tell right as soon as I started talking to him that I liked him. He's part of, you know, the Ivy League, obviously, and Princeton's a lead dog in that league.

And they had to go forego their season to possibly at best the spring. And that's kind of unprecedented. But the Ivy League, the big question is them doing this, are they the canary in the coal mine? Or are they just different with their set of priorities? We saw the news out of Stanford. They can't tap in their endowment. They lost 11 sports. The Big 10 dropped some news today about conference-only schedule, which is likely.

I don't know if you could tell, but football is going to look a lot different this fall. And my point that I've been saying for months is that football is the least conducive to this thing going okay in professional sports. Baseball, I think you can pull it off. Talk to John Kruk earlier this week. They're going to do things like, hey, you can't hold runners on first base as a first baseman, can't charge the mound, can't spit seeds. I mean, it's going to be different, but it's not a contact sport. I mean, you could conceivably pull that thing off. I think the NFL is going to be really tough.

And college is already starting to figure that out. But I think the NFL is just so hell-bent on being bulletproof. Another point with the NFL is that, and I've said this, there's this crop of quarterbacks that we grew up watching and they're in their twilight. You know, the Philip Rivers of the world, the Tom Brady's, Drew Brees, Even Aaron Rogers losing a year is harder to recoup than, especially at that age, than in any other sport. A basketball player misses a year. And we're not talking about certainly those guys are going to lose out on money, but a basketball guy is going to be able to pick right back up where he left off a year later.

His earning potential is not that affected at 29 as opposed to 30 or even 35 as opposed to 36. A football quarterback, you don't know when the bottom is going to fall out. you know, Tom Brady might be fine at 43. If they miss this season, what's it going to be like at 44? So, you know, not only is the NFL trying to push forward because that's all they know and they want to make money, but also these quarterbacks, you know, if you miss a year, you don't know what's going to look like next year. And I do think it's a possibility. I think we're all in denial that this is going to be tough to pull off. But another thing is, and I talked to Bob about this, in the NFL, you've got the biggest.

players. I mean, yes, we're all young, healthy athletes, but you're talking about guys with BMI's through the roof, like 360-pound men. You know, I know cancer survivors in the NFL. I know guys with underlying conditions. Of course, if you know them, they're not underlying, but you get the picture like, what happens if a guy dies? Okay. I mean, I'm like, I understand I'm not some alarmist, but this is a real thing. And I understand that young people are not as affected and you know the the main reason that we're we're so cognizant of like you know what we do as young people is do not be selfish assholes you know because there are older people there are people with immune disorders and and underlying conditions that might be affected by it and

you're a spreader but even from a standpoint of strictly like football there could be i hate to say this but there could be we could lose somebody you know and i'm not being dramatic you know with all the players in the NFL, if there's an outbreak, I don't think every guy on every roster is equipped to necessarily deal with this virus. Now, I understand the numbers. I know the chances of you dying at that age are astronomically low. I get that. But, you know, the sub-sample of the population they're taking that out of is not, you know, it's not indicative of, and I know that NFL players are in shape, but there's different body types. There are guys with preexisting conditions. and the NFL is a very visible league and what's going to happen.

And how are they going to litigate that sort of thing? I don't know. It's, you know, the clock is getting close to strike in zero on them having to make a decision on the front end and the schedule. I know they already did something with preseason. But Bob Sarace, the head coach at Princeton and the Ivy League, they were out ahead of it in basketball season. I can remember when they canceled the tournament. Everybody was kind of like, damn, are they earlier? They just being the smart guys.

They were way ahead of the curve. And we were wondering, is this thing going to be back in a couple weeks? You know, can we still get the NCAA tournament? I remember the realization that the NCAA tournament, my favorite thing in sports, was going up in flames. College football is looking in doubt in the NFL, as stubborn as they want to be, might eventually have to concede the same fate that, you know, know, these Ivy League schools have, have decided is a reality. So it was a great interview.

You'll enjoy it. And he happens to have a couple mutual friends that you're going to know in the coaching world. And he's got great stories about him. So Bob Serase, up first, Caitlin Chagin, up second, Princeton head football coach, UFC fighter. I'm going to do something different here. I'm going to start off with the mailbag. I got some good questions on IG.

Again, appreciate y'all. And my Twitter friends, you know, I'm going to try to figure out a mechanism for you guys to shoot us some mailbag questions without me spending all day on Twitter. Mailbag. This is from Nate Morris. How much did players talk about each other's contracts jokingly and seriously in the locker room? Were there awkward moments when guys weren't playing up to the conference? contracts. So guys are really openly vocal when a guy needs to get paid more or when a guy signs a contract, like a new big money contract because it's positive. And nobody wants to get seen as a

hater. But there are definitely haters in the NFL. I'll get to that in a second. When a guy needs to get paid and everybody knows it like he's underpaid or he's about to get paid, everybody rallies behind him, builds them up. That's usually young guys, guys who weren't drafted high. You know, you're always going to be, you know, the good guy if you're, if you're the underdog in the NFL. That wasn't my situation. I was drafted highly. I've always been the big money, can't hide that money guy, which is like good natured, like, ribbing. It's admirable.

Like, I admire that you've gotten paid. Ha, ha, ha. But you can never tell us some of those jokes are like, I'm fucking jealous or I don't think you deserve it. Or, you know, if they're good nature. which a lot of them are. They're more covert guys in the NFL when discussing a guy who's not playing up to his contract. And those conversations are kind of whispered in a cafeteria, in quiet moments on the sideline when a guy drops a pass or gets beaten one-on-on-ones or in cold tubs. Those are kind of the, I don't mean to sound like a hater here, but like him again.

It can be a look, you know, guys will just look at each other. when a guy fucks up on the practice field or in a game and or, you know, that sigh. Everybody knows that like sigh or, you know, when somebody sucks their teeth like that. Come on, man, like, fuck. That is the sound of somebody who's like, this guy ain't cutting it and I'm expecting him to cut it. Whether it's a high draft pick or a guy that's getting paid a lot of money. There are a lot of pocket watchers in the NFL. And that's ironic because when I got a league, all I kept hearing was don't be a hater.

don't pocket watch. In my career, as I said, early on, I was a high pick who started slow my first two years. I was overpaid my first two years, no doubt about it. You know, as are a lot of high draft picks. It is a tough transition. I was really anxious about that. You know, it felt weird. I mean, for a year and a half there, I'm sitting there, you know, for much of my first two years with about 10 sacks.

And, you know, you're a top 10 pick. It's, you know, people call you all. types of names, including that B word. If you Google my name for a year and a half, it was that B word. And then there was a stretch of four years where it kind of came together for me, starting my third year, and I was paid appropriately. I was making good money, and I was one of the best, you know, players on team. And, you know, I was probably over those four years, I haven't added it up, but 40 sacks in those four years, I don't know where that puts me, but numbers don't lie, and I was paid appropriately. Then the injuries, and when guys get hurt,

nobody's judgmental as long as that guy's busting his ass to get back and uh you know that's a tightrope because you want to you want to be smart and everything everybody tells you to do but the reason you're in the NFL is because you're fucking crazy i mean like anyways like the reason you made it this long is because you push through pain and you push through uh warnings and you're just the type of guy who throws caution to the wind a little bit and that's the way i've been in my career and played through a lot of injuries but those two years in st louis for instance, I could feel the eyes on me. The first time I got hurt, I'm coming off of playing in a hundred straight games. I've never been a guy with durability issues, but it's amazing how

quickly people turn on you. I saw some of my own teammates. Give me that look. That first year, got rolled up on the first, the opener against the Vikings. I always remember the play. I wish I hadn't fought that downblock sitting in a four eye. You know, I fought pressure with pressure, left arm straight, pushing fill load hauled out to the sideline and somebody falls on my leg. You know, no control over that. I was almost embarrassed to say I had to go get surgery the next day when I walked in a locker room and that I might be I R'd. And I should have been I R'd.

But the competitor of me wanted to play through it. And part of that was your teammates. You look around and you're like, are people giving me that look. Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. I think the first year I got hurt, nobody's giving me a look. they knew they could depend on me. I was always a baller the last few years, and I played through pain. You know, I shot up a high ankle that most guys would miss five, six games with and broke the bank, my contract year. So guys know that. Still, you're worried. Now, the second year, I got hurt again,

fractured tibia. Then you really start, then guys start turning. It's amazing how fast you see guys kind of like eyeball you like, oh yeah, this guy's hurt again. You know, so it's just the way it is. and you can feel the eyeballs on you. Again, I felt pressure return to the field. It made things worse. I didn't play good when I was playing hurt in those two years. Eventually, at least you getting cut. And then the last three years, I was underpaid.

When I was in New England, I didn't make a lot of money, and I wasn't a star there, but I was maybe paid appropriately. And then in Philly, I was underpaid. And even though I had money, I don't have a jealous bone in my body, but when it comes to seeing guys getting paid, you do get a little, I can identify with guys getting a little bitter because it's just the gesture. It's the principle of it.

It's principality. It's not about the money, but you do look around sometimes, and you're like, as a competitor, I know I'm better than that guy, and I'm not getting paid anymore, whether it's about age or your draft spot or, you know, whatever. So there's an interesting dynamic that revolves around money in the NFL.

You know, guys say don't hate, don't pocket watch. It's still prevalent. And in everybody's career, chances are you're either going to be underpaid, overpaid at different times or appropriately paid. In my career, 11-year journey, interestingly, I was all three. I mean, overpaid for two years due to performance in high draft. And two years, I was overpaid because of the injury, which you can't control. Four years I was paid appropriately and very highly.

And then three years, probably. I was a little bit underpaid. So players go through their careers and the ebb and flow of it changes. And a lot of guys, you know, it changes over the arc of their career. So that's my thesis on the way guys pocketwatching the NFL or don't pocket watch. I was never want to do that. I tried not to. Philly 403 asks, can you talk about Doug's ice cream obsession?

I love talking about Doug's ice cream obsession. Of course, we're talking about Doug E.P. Doug Peterson, there's two things Doug Peterson loves. That's trick plays and hogendoss every Saturday night. Okay? He'd stand up in some hotel ballroom with another, whether it was the airport Marriott in Philly or some strange city with another hotel ballroom right next to it, stocked with food, chicken wings, burritos, whatever it is, your late night fuel up stuff,

and then this row, this glistening row of Hagenas, with a man in like a tuxedo, I felt like, probably the guy that worked at the hotel was probably never wearing a tuxedo, but the guy that was scooping, it was, you know, standing right there, ready for that rush of dudes, like a herd of buffalo that are going to run in in a couple of minutes and attack that row of Hagenas. You know, guys are exhausted, okay?

at 9.30 at night sitting in meetings. You've been sitting in meetings all day. We might have a noon game the next day. All you want to do is sleep. It's your best night of sleep Saturday night. But most of us are thinking about the dessert, whether that's wings, whether that's pizza, whether that's hogging us. And it might be definitely silent. The only thing you can hear is like lights buzzing. Doug's delivering some fiery speech. You're thinking about the game, but half your brain is kind of thinking, about meticulously crushing up some Oreos and mixing them in a bowl of vanilla, thank you very much,

that I'm going to need to get busy eating in a second because it's going to melt after sitting through a Jim Schwartz and Douggy P. meeting that could sometimes go over. So I would stand by the door. Everybody's seated. Some coaches and staff are standing in the back. Most of the team seated. Like I said, overflow in the back.

Okay? Again, it's like 9.30 a night. and I'm right next to the door. I made sure I had the best route of exit always. And Doug usually after a while would pick it up and look at me, like right before he started his speech with that smile, kind of like, okay, man, like I know you want to get to the ice cream. I made sure I had a good route,

and I was usually right next to a guy who I'm inextricably tied to forever, and that's Ken Flageal because he's tattooed on my ribcage because I lost a bet. More on that at some other point, but you guys remember I lost that bet. I had tattooed the linebacker coach's face on my wrist, rib cage with a message says pay up. Shout out to Ben Around tattoos. He does my tattoos in Charlottes phone. Shout out to Ken Flageo, who I talked to the other day. As soon as Doug would utter the

words, now let's go get some ice cream. It was like a starting gun would go off. And it's not like a sprint. Nobody wants to be rude. But it's that wordless 40-yard dash where speedwalking is kind of limit. Okay. And I'd get to the line first. Okay. Usually Flage, Ken Flagell, followed in like second or third. He'd get silver or bronze, and he'd judgingly kind of chuckle at me. He'd shake his head, like,

he was going to get really paternal with your boy. But he knew he had the same thing in mind. So how could he judge me? He just wasn't as fast to Walker. And I'd sit, usually with Camus, Kelsey, Joe Walker, Brandon Brooks, Lane.

It was a great little group. We'd sit every Saturday night, at home at the airport Marriott and we'd talk until we got tired. But Doug E.P. would walk by and kind of inspect our ice cream assortments. And he'd have that big smile on his face, kind of nod and approval, stand there. All right, all right. Let's see what you got going on there, Camus.

You know, and he'd usually laugh at me extra hard because you knew how much I look forward to it. And the room would empty slowly. We'd enjoy our ice cream, our wings, whatever. And a few late night holdouts would kind of remain. But that was our table. And maybe JP and Sproles, they were usually like the late, late night guys that would leave their table and we'd still be sitting there. And this was maybe at 10 o'clock at night, 10, 15.

They'd stand up by the table as if they're going to small talk and move on. But before you know it, it's almost 11 and they're still standing there. And eventually the first person says, I'm hitting the hay or I'm going to bed. And that's that. You know how it is like a dinner party when the first person leaves? but, you know, I check with Dom, our team security guys. Shout out to Dom and Chris, one of our cops on the way upstairs. And, you know, that was the routine, man.

I lay in bed with a pound of ice cream digesting and listen to music and watching some whack game. Watching like Hawaii, Fresno State or something. I missed the team hotel, man. That's one thing I miss about, you know, being on a team, was hitting the road or being in a, in a hotel altogether the night before game and that feeling of like brotherhood. And Doug did a great job. And it was of fostering that.

And ice cream was part of it. He knew how to keep it light, but Doug E.P loves him some fucking ice cream. Let me just say that. Ali Calabree says, would love to hear your take on the possible effects on athletes if there's no football this fall, not only at the collegiate level,

but high school levels as well. everyone knows football is a great escape from their normal lives and for a lot of young athletes, this is an escape from a troubled home, friends that can lead down the wrong path, making poor choices, etc. What do you think the short and long-term effects could be for a lot of athletes that use football to, quote, get away?

If there's no off-season. I think that's a great question. And I think there's a number of effects to worry about. And of course, this is all hypothetical. I know I touched on the possibility that the NFL season may or may not happen. We'll see. I mean, I know right now it looks like, looks like business as usual, but you just never know.

Let's assume it doesn't. Obviously, the first worry is financial for a lot of guys. A ton of guys may have to make tough decisions about leaving the game because they're not guys with a lot of leeway due to draft status or age. In a year, there'll be another young and exciting crop of guys coming through. And there won't be the opportunity for that year of equity. So if the season gets played and you're an undraft, the guy you have a chance to show and prove.

Say you're a guy in your fourth year and you're trying to hang on. You lose that season. That's a big deal because you don't get a chance to move the ball forward. Guys like that are always trying to prove themselves. And, you know, guys like that might lose that year of equity. And older players may not have a choice, you know, and may not have another chance because of their age. They may lose interest.

I know for me when I walked away from the game with more gas left, physically, the hardest part thinking about coming back a year later was mental. I mean, you have no idea how unnatural that decade-long pressure-packed adrenaline suck is that is an NFL career. And it's a beautiful game. We get paid well for it. But just because you're rich doesn't mean you're not stressed as fuck. And the pressure of, you know, having to perform the violence of the game, you know, the year-round nature of training. Once you step off that treadmill, you're like, hmm, this is pretty comfortable. And I learned that in my first year away from running into people for a living,

since I was, you know, 14 years old or 13 years old, that that was a really learned normal. And it wasn't natural. And to go away from it for a year, you realize that life ain't so bad and some guys who have made their money if they missed this year they might say it's really hard to get back on the horse it's also very unnatural to think i'm training in the fall it's just a mind fuck then there's there's guys who aren't workers okay they're guys that are getting by on talent and they're not the really good ones that can skate by on talent they're not like the stars okay um they might fuck around and do nothing and that could backfire you know some people you know rest is good. Some people who aren't resting on purpose, they're resting because they're lazy.

That's not so good. The NFL also has to contend with a crop of historically relevant quarterbacks that I just talked about who may be on their last leg. So I talked to Rashid Wallace and Bonzi Wells about this because it was on their pod. You know, the difference in earning potential and the deficit from year to year comparing football and basketball. It's just different. And then also there's obviously the loss of structure, you know, the partying, the addiction, I mean, we all have our own issues. And, you know, not everybody's a party or not everybody's addicted to something. Not everybody's like, you know, got their own demons.

But football is a huge band-aid for a lot of guys, you know. And it was in a sense for me as relatively normal as I might seem like, you know, I have issues like everybody else. And, you know, football covered those issues up, not in a big way, but there were things that I could have never learned about myself or worked on about myself as a football player. And so some guys might come out of it and improve being away from the game because they're forced to confront things. But it also covers, like I said, trauma, social, psychological deficiencies. Those issues will be more exposed without football.

There's a lot of guys who people put up with their bullshit because they're football players because they're athletes, just like any sport. You know, what's it like in the fall when it's your first fall out and, you know, all of a sudden you've got to contend with some of those things. That could be a good or a bad thing. And then there's money and not from a standpoint of people, you know, supporting their families and missing that check. But there are some guys in the NFL that people, you know, people spend money when they're bored. Anybody does. It was young guys, you don't know how to manage their money. You know, you might lose your paycheck for a year, but you spend like you're getting it.

And people spend money when they're bored. People spend money when they're insecure. And that's a bad combo because no football in the fall could lead to a lot of the same. of guys being pretty bored and insecure. You know, what am I? What am I doing? This is scary. I don't have football and I feel totally out of whack.

Is this what retirement's like? You know, it can be a recipe for disaster. And some guys get used to the lifestyle. When the check isn't coming in, that's what they always talk about with retirement. It could be like a glimpse into retirement. And then not to mention marital issues, like relationships. a host of concerns that, you know, that players have to deal with. And I'm not saying that like every marriage is bad in the NFL or anything like it.

It's just like society, dude. For those of y'all listening who work 9 to 5s and normal jobs and I respect you, I love you. Hats off to you. I hate, I'll never complain about, you know, my job. I know we've got it good. But, you know, we work long hours for sure. And some of you all work long hours. too, your wives, your husbands might work long hours. Imagine all of a sudden, all that stopping

and just sitting at home together. Not to mention, you know, because I know a lot of people struggling in the off-season because that loss of structure and sometimes in people's relationships, they've had that comfort of, you know, the balance of for eight hours a day, I don't see my spouse. I'm at work. That's healthy. She's at work. He's at work. That's not the case. anymore and it's very sudden for football players. It's like the longest off season ever. And not to mention that, if the quarantine on top of it, people really are going to have to work on relationships and that sort of thing.

I mean, if that makes sense, you know, it's a reality. It's, you know, a lot of people think it's like when people win the lotto, they don't have to work anymore. What happens? You spend it all. You lose your mind. Whatever. idle hands, man, devil's playground.

And idle hands are not good for relationships either. I think it's really remarkable. One thing that NFL players don't get enough credit for at times is, you know, in the offseason, and some of these off seasons are very long. You know, a lot of times because of the nature of moving from city to city or, you know, players calling one place home and playing another place, you know, wives don't work sometimes. Sometimes they have careers. marriages can be a challenge.

And, you know, hats off to NFL wives, hats off to NFL players that have great marriages because it is a challenge. There's a lot of downtime. A lot of downtime. Certainly, everybody's blessed.

They got a lot of money. But from a relationship standpoint, that can be a challenge too. So, you know, what happens also for the NFL if football goes away and fans say that wasn't so bad. Now,

that's highly, highly unlikely, but I don't think a year way has any positive for the NFL. They can only stand to lose momentum or interest. Now, they have a huge buffer by virtue of being the most popular sport in America. But it can't be good for the players or the league. And for those reasons I listed, you know, NFL players really should think hard about contingency plans about saving their money, you know, how are they going to work through personal relationships, how are they going to deal with the downtime, you know, how are they going to look in the mirror and work on them? Because it's going to be a challenging time. If somebody who's retired, when the, when the bus stops and

it's very still and you just got off that treadmill, that's just an adrenaline suck for how many years, that silence can be kind of, kind of eerie. So I hope there's a season for a lot of reasons, but, you know, that'd be, if it's safe, that'd be, that'd be one reason is I'd hate to see guys just sitting around at home, and that could be tough. So without further ado, let's get to Coach Bob Serase again. He's the Princeton head coach and the Ivy League just made a big announcement this week. After that, we'll have Caitlin Chukagian. There's Bob.

Coach, thanks for joining the pod. And this is great. We do this stuff on Zoom, as some of the listeners know. Coach has the Bill Belichick Husky Dog with the table background from the draft as his Zoom virtual background. Coach, that's a power move. Yeah, well, you know, maybe the dog can help me draft or recruit some players. So we'll see if it works half as well as it worked for, and you had some time in New England, I don't take it. Matt, you know what?

I wasn't judging coach for anything, and I spent a year there, and he's a treasure. He's just what you think he'd be. The table kind of shocked me. I mean, the table's a little bit unsightly, but the dog is beautiful. Well, you know how big a lacrosse guy he is. Yes. And my first year, I'm coaching at Princeton and Matt Patricia, who you know, Maddie Pat played for me.

And he and Maddie Pat Rutgers was playing Princeton lacrosse in the spring. And I'm coaching first spring. and I get a text from Matt Patricia. Hey, we're watching you from, I don't know, they had an SUV. And I said, who are you with? And he said, Bill Belichick. You're like, oh, shit. So you never know, right?

You never know who's watching it. That's the biggest lesson in football, especially when you were a college athlete. And like, you strange men would come to practice. And you knew the strange men when they rolled up because you never saw them before. And you'd say, you never know who it could be. So you got to have your best day. Tell me a quick. You actually coached Maddie P.

Yeah, so I was at RPI. I coached him to CFL. I'm like 25 years old. I don't know if you remember this, but the teams came to the United States. We get, you know, the league folds in the United States. I don't have a job. My girlfriend, who I met at Princeton,

working in New York City. And there's hardly any coaching jobs in this area. So RPI is the job I get. I love it there. I get to coach this Division III offensive line. Everybody's about 6'5-290. We have a guard who's the strongest guy in America. And Maddie P.

Look then like he looks now. Like he's just kind of dumpy and everything else. Mattie, he was just the best worker, smartest player, best technician. So we're on my new coach. We're in camp. I'm like, Matt's got to start. This guy was a world strength bench brush camp. And the coach, you can't start him.

He can't bench 300 pounds. I'm like, coach, this is the best guy. and then the offensive coordinator stuck up for me. Maddie P graded higher than any other offensive line that we had. That's good to clear that up because I always wondered,

you know, he'd show me the old football pictures usually poking fun at himself and I wondered, you know, how legit Maddie P was. I mean, he's not the most physically imposing, but he does have some shit to him and I know he works hard.

He would be the guy at the facility. He'd be like, hey, dude, go home. Even by New England Patriots standards, you're a total addict. Like, go home and get away from the game. Yeah, I think sometimes with the media, you know, they're answering questions and they come with a certain personality. People don't know how much fun this guy was. For a rocket scientist, his personality in college in terms of leadership, having fun, you would have never guess.

The big news this week, obviously what's going on in the Ivy League. I guess, coach, right off the bat, are y'all the canary in the coal mine or are y'all's priorities just that much different than everybody else? else's. I think we're all looking at this situation. And, you know, FBS Power 5 football has got a lot of money at stake. So making a decision on July 8th, it probably isn't in their best interest. But I don't know if there's an administrator or a coach. Anybody I talk to has similar doubts, can we do this and do this successfully?

but they don't need to make the decision today. You know, we can make a decision based on information, right? I use this analogy and you play for Doug Peterson. If it's fourth and one in the 50, if you've been to a Princeton game, we're going for it, right? First series, we're aggressive. Doug Peterson's going for it. Oh, yeah.

If it's fourth and 15 on the minus 20, we're punting, right? Yeah. It's, you know, not even to get into an analytic conversation with you. You have information and knowledge, well, if you look at where we're at right now and it's fourth and 15 or the minus 20. And your next possession could be in the spring and there's nothing wrong with that. And there's nothing wrong with that. And, you know, we're coaching 18 to 22 year olds. It's different than I think the pros.

I think, you know, that's your profession. You know, you're obligated. Your career could be over. you can't social distance, wear a mask, wash, you know, just do the basics and be smart about this. Now, you and I both know there's going to be guys in the casinos and guys, you know, there's some guys that don't take it seriously. But those who do, they're going to play as much as they, if they can play, they're going to play. And I think it's a little different at the Power 5 or the group of five, wait, because they have,

you know, it's not just the money they have at stake. Think of all the other sports. I've seen Stanford dropped the left. It's Stanford, yeah. You know, they are funneling the money that supports the other programs. It's, you know, important that they give this as much thought as possible. But at the end, we all got to look in the mirror and say, why do I coach, right? You coach to develop young men.

Obviously, we win games. We want to compete. We want to do those things. But at the end of the day, 18-year-olds become 22. They graduate. They go in the real world. world and you want to see them become, you know, successful, you know, we got a health and safety risk right now.

Everybody knows it. And when if we got uncertainty, right? We know what the right answer is. The right answer is to punt. Yeah. And to your point, I mean, like, it is a health and safety thing. And I understand what some people say about these are some of the best athletes in the world. They're healthy.

And most young people don't really get, you know, afflicted badly with this thing. And we don't know that. But, I mean, we know that most don't. But you never know. And also, I talked about this with somebody yesterday. There's a number of big guys out there in the field with, you know, high BMIs. I mean, we've got a lot of offensive linemen, defensive tackles who probably wouldn't want to volunteer to contract this disease.

I mean, just speaking plainly. Yeah. I've been at Princeton 10 years. I've had a guy with a plastic anemia, a rare disease. I had a player rookie of the year was going to go. want to be a pro and he had a stroke in the middle of his freshman year studying i had a player that had hodgkins lymphoma right you don't know what else they have yeah right in terms of that and the uncertainty is such that is we're both reading up on this and i'm not saying i'm an expert

but i'm trying to educate myself you said the right thing we don't really know what the long-term effects are. And if I don't know, I don't, and I'm responsible for 120 players and 10 coaches and trainers. And I don't feel real good looking in the mirror saying, what am I doing this for? Because I can out a championship, maybe. Who knows? Everybody thinks they're winning the championship right now. And if we think it's going to be better in the spring, and we don't know that, but if we think it's going to be better in the spring, it only makes sense to do it in the spring. And additionally, I mean, like, you know, I'm not shitting on the coaches here, but NFL coaches, college coaches, they're not as healthy as the players and they're usually a lot older. So, you know, COVID affects different age ranges, you know, differently.

And then on top of that, in the NFL, and I talked about this the other day with the former team, and I said, if they push forward, because you know how the NFL is, they're bulletproof. They can do anything they want. And that's kind of the attitude. what if a guy dies, you know, then what? That's bad enough in the NFL. What if a guy, you know, God forbid somebody contracts it and dies from complications at the collegiate level? These guys aren't getting paid. These guys aren't, you know, it's different than taking the risk willingly as a pro athlete with leverage.

It's a terrifying prospect and one that statistically, I mean, you may be looking at one at least horror story this fall. Yeah, and you didn't even mention high schools. There's a lot more high school players. And you know, you're right. Like I ate NFL training tables. I didn't work out like you did. You know, you're not going to be. We're not training in the weight room like players are.

And, you know, I just- I mean, Dante, you remember Scar. I mean, Scar is one of the best coaches of all time. Scars in great health. Scar would be on that treadmill for hours. He's jacked for like 70, but he's like 70. And like if you're 70, you don't want this disease. Yeah.

And I think that, you know, some coaches are really going to have to be smart about this. Because there are a lot of older coaches in the NFL. And, you know, you can coach from a distance and wear a map. Yeah. You know, you can't meet. You're going to have to Zoom meet or you're going to have to do meetings a different way. But actually on the field, you're outdoors, other than a few domes. You can do most of this safely as a coach if you believe in this.

Like, I'm just astonished that some people still think it's a hoax. Yeah, well, that's an indicator. I just, I don't want to be political. I don't want to go into all that. But like at the end of the day, we got to be smarter about this. And I'm not making a political statement, but man. I hate that it's become that. Like, wear a mask has become this.

this very divisive topic. It's like, hey, man, we're going to have this pandemic for a couple months here. Like, can we just do one thing to improve our chances of coming out of this relatively unscathed? I mean, we've already suffered way too much at the hands of carelessly. So hopefully college football doesn't get wrapped up in that. And anybody who's played sports at a high level, no sacrifice, being six feet apart, wearing a mask, washing our hands, and like, that kind of stuff doesn't seem like sacrifice to me. No, that's not something like, yeah, I mean, that's not something like, yeah, it's not a denial of your right and it's not like some heroic action.

So I don't know how it became that. How did the kids take the news? Because that was one thing that, how do you convey that to them? Obviously, you don't do it in person, so that's tough. Like, I know some coaches have tough texts to make when they're leaving a school or that sort of thing and you can be impersonal. But you have no choice but to be impersonal about a very hot button topic right now that probably crush some kids. Yeah, you know, I said it yesterday. I pulled the team.

And so we had a head coach's meeting with her AD. Then we had a player meeting with the AD. And then we had a team meeting. So that's the way our administration wanted to do it. And I was on there after they had heard the news on that. And like anything else, it wasn't our school because it got leaked before our head coached our AD at first. But the players found out on Twitter. And I, I could.

couldn't convey strong enough the players should have heard before the coaches because everything gets leaked nowadays. But it was hard. Like I'm, I'm in, you know, my young 50s. And my dad was my high school coach in football and baseball. I've been on a football field in the fall since I was a little kid. And it's, and it's hard to think that this is going to be different. And I got players who are doing this not for a scholarship, not for any other reason besides they love football, they love their teammates, they love representing our school.

And there's a lot of tears. And we knew what the answer was. It wasn't like we were disagreeing. Nobody, I think everybody on that call, 100 and whatever, 40 people agree that it's the right decision. It doesn't make it less painful that way. And they've been dealing with four months of they got sent home, virtual school.

You know, we're in the middle of a lot of social justice issues. Yeah. That we've had to work together through Zoom. Like, we have been hit with all these things and we can't even see each other. And so it really hurt. The great thing is I've been, you know, on the phone. I told them to take the night off, get the emotion out of this. Yeah.

And let's, you know, start talking the next day. And I've been calling the seniors. I've been talking to them. These kids are probably a lot like the teammates you had at Virginia. They're just amazing young men. They're inspiring in how they handle adversity. And we're in this together. Like this is not ideal.

This isn't what we wanted. But we're going to be in this together. We're going to work through this to if we play in the spring. We'll figure out how to play our best in the spring. If we're still in this situation and the decision is necessary to not play at all this year, we'll get ready for 21 and we'll figure out all the eligibility. But we got to, you know, at the end of the day, there needs to be a, we need to support each other and togetherness and everything that you value

and get values from in sports are needed at a time like this. Absolutely. And I always think of college football players are some of the hardest working young men in sports, period. or at any vocation athletically, these guys work so hard for a common goal. And the coaches work hard too. And I've got good friends that are coaches at Virginia, one of my best friends, Marcus Hagen's,

who's a terrific coach of Virginia. And just watching him prepare for a season that he hasn't said it. But in my mind, I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen. How hard has it been even before this decision to work when you're not sure? Like, and you, even you guys are brighter than most. So you're like, it's probably unlikely, but we got to go through these motions continually. Yeah, you know, the one thing is I think the players needed an outlet. You know, whether they had a barrage gym, whether they had a driveway or a front yard, being able, whether they had resistance fans or they had weight set.

I think they all needed an outlet. And it was easy when there was still even some little bit of hope. on there. And we were doing meetings. We were doing the same thing that your friends were doing. We're preparing and everything else. And to be honest with you, Chris, in late May, as the Northeast started to become in a situation where we flatten the curve

and it looked promising in the rest of the country was still in a good shape, I was optimistic. And we put together with our athletic director, I put together a 38 page PowerPoint with protocol on how to travel, how to practice. But we weren't going to do it if it wasn't responsible. And everything we do that can't be social distanced or that we've done in the past that was within six feet or indoors, we moved outdoors and social distance. And the only thing that we couldn't do is O-Lyme and D-Lyme at some point,

HaptopCon, you can't play without having some one-on-one type contact. And we were going to wear these masks, shields on our masks, that would, you know, minimize the air particles. Like, we had a lot of answers. And then three weeks later, I had doubts. And then five weeks later, I was in agreement that this is not the right thing to do. Yeah, it's amazing how quickly this got real. Because if you remember, the Ivy League basketball tournament was the first one that made the right call. And at that moment, I don't know about you, but even me who's taking this thing seriously from the beginning,

like maybe the NCAA tournament will happen. Maybe, you know, we got to, maybe they'll pull it off. I was it at the UVA facility when they got word that spring ball was canceled. And it's just gotten realer and realer. So let's say you guys don't play till the spring because I think spring football would be terrific. Now that, that, you know, there takes some planning about 21 in the fall and how the timeline goes.

And then if some teams are playing the spring and some are in the fall, like how does the schedule match up in the fall? But you guys won the league in 18. Okay. Two losses in 19. The momentum kind of stops, but it's not just the games without spring ball. You could go 16 months without guys playing football. Like, how do you keep guys engaged from here on out? Yeah, it's probably something you've heard. It's cliche that my first advice was from a professional baseball administrator who was my college teammate. And I said, hey, any advice for me when I got the job? And he sent me three words, control what you control. Yeah.

And, you know, that's all we can control. And if we're not, like today's not the day to go push them lifting. Today, like, you know, I'm not, you know, we got to be smart about this. Like, you know, this isn't the week to push them. This is the week to support them. But at some point, we, you know, pick ourselves back up. We get back in the weight room. We start working out and doing those things that way.

And yeah, if we play in the spring, I don't think we're going to play a 10-game schedule. I think we're going to play a reduced schedule. And we had our first practice on March 7th. One of my friends is big into politics, and I follow him on Twitter. And he had on March 2nd listed the epistemologists and how serious this was. And this guy's usually right. And he was a Princeton grad. I knew him from there.

And I was like, oh, boy. So after that practice, I told the coaches, you guys, you know, we got the scripts, you guys get everything ready. I'm going to prepare for the fact we may not be here at the end of the week. Yeah. And on Tuesday, they canceled spring ball. So we were a little bit ahead of others on that. But I think it was, you know, it's proven to be this is the right move. And I just think we just got to keep their spirits up.

like 18 to 22 year olds are very emotional, right? Yeah. So, you know, now's not the time to have them Zoom meeting on the X's and O's of football or anything else. Now is the time to show them we love them and care for them. Yeah. And if you do do a spring and I'm not, I'm not holding you to anything, but let's say spring happens. What is that? I mean, the time, the virus sets the timeline.

We get that. But let's say you have to do a training camp that's, abbreviated or different and not just that like it's cold as hell outside like can you imagine a full training camp in 30 degree weather like what's that like yeah we'll probably be in we have a bubble so yeah um you know are you princeton guys man unlike unlike belichick we'll probably a mattie pat we'll probably go into the pub they're gonna be mad we'll probably we're a little softer than those new england guys yeah so my my guess is we will do some things outdoors, but if it's minus 20 degrees. And I would imagine the way I've

asked our AD to consider this, and this is all way, way, way down the road is we would have, we started spring ball on March 7th. This year, that Saturday is March 6th. So if we spend the month of February in, you know, I think almost every team in the Ivy League does have a bubble. If we do that on March six, seven Saturdays from that's like April 17th or something. Right. So if we played, if we did spring ball, we were going March 7th to April 13th this year. So we're not really going to be, we're giving them basically the same time frame as we would if we were in spring ball.

Now playing games different than spring ball. Spring ball is it the same as when, um, 1989 when we had spring ball. Like spring ball is a little more like OPAs now, right? We're not, we're not doing the longest yard, you know, Oklahoma drills. Yeah, no, no, no. We're still doing some of that under Al Groh in the early 2000s. So, I mean, yeah, it's a timing challenge for sure. What about the eligibility thing that you touched on?

You're going to have incoming folks. You're going to have probably, you know, presumably a logjam of guys that are like, I want to come back and use this next year. Like how's that work? How do you get around those challenges? Yeah, the hardest challenge is, and they haven't given us all the answers yet. Like, I believe the presidents,

I think they probably knew this was right the right decision two weeks ago. Yeah. But I don't think they were ready to make that decision. And they voted on it yesterday, or Tuesday, I should say. They didn't let us know until 4 o'clock. So I don't think they worked all

way through what happens if there isn't a spring should kids be taking the year off like we haven't worked all those things out and it may take so for the seniors um i'm just going to need a little bit more time to give them the best advice right on this because i don't want them taking the year off and then we play in the spring right so you know so we want to make sure that we do what's right for him How about recruiting? Because, you know, I remember being a recruited kid in junior year. So important, imagine you're a junior in high school and you miss your junior year of football. Like, how do you guys approach that?

Yeah, and you grew up, you knew Charlottesville. Yeah. And when you walk and I've been on the UVA campus, it's beautiful, right? And you walk through there and you see people and it's an incredible place. Princeton's the same way. You walk through that campus. You see the people. It's a very similar setting that way.

And when you don't have life and we're in a dead period, it's, you know, we're touring guys through Zoom. We're doing all kinds of things. But it's not the same as it was. So we're being as creative as we can and we're building relationships. But, you know, it's really, you know, you're trying to, replace the in-person and it's impossible to replace the in-person. But what you've got to do is build a stronger relationship because no different than us,

we've all been home. These recruits have been home the whole time too. So now there's more time to have conversations. And I feel we're building stronger bonds with them. But, you know, we don't recruit locally. We do get local recruits. Yeah, but it's hard for you. like the smartest, the best and the brightest are coming to you from wherever.

So yeah. So we got kids coming from Hawaii and we got kids coming from Massachusetts and we got kids coming from Kansas. So it's a little bit more of a challenge for the kid who's coming from a place that's further away to picture himself. And, you know, we got to do our best to create that picture and build that relationship and get them to understand the opportunities that are presented. and, you know, it's, you know, it's a little hard because when I was a recruits age,

I thought Princeton was a nerd school. I'm a coach's son. I didn't realize the football, you know, we talked about, you know, Jason Garrett and the Garrett brothers. I played with five NFL players. Like, this wasn't, you know, football that was being done and they didn't care. This was a challenge, you know, they, the coach told us its excellence. It's school, academics, everything you do.

And so that's hard to bring out on a Zoom. So, you know, lastly from around the country here, the Big Ten just announced a conference-only season for fall sports is very likely, including football. I'm sure you got, you know, friends all over by virtue of being a coach. What's the rumor mill? What's the temperature of guys in the Power 5 conferences, you know, seeing y'all's reaction, you know, wondering what might happen. What could this look like in the fall for teams that do play?

I think it's mixed. You know, yesterday I had calls from coaching friends at the FBS level. And they were saying, I hope you guys go to the spring because we can't do that. Right. Right. I have other coaching friends saying, gosh, if we don't play, this is going to be disaster for our department. market. And, you know, at the end of the day, money's going to come back. Right. You know, these schools are going to make tons of money, but you're not going to be able to replace health. No. So as much as that's the case, it's easy for me to say, it's easy for somebody on the outside to say. But, you know, it was real when I saw yesterday Stanford cut off the left sports. And you think those sports will come back eventually? Well, it may be the Big Ten or, you know, these conferences, there's $50 million a year TV revenue coming to schools.

Yeah. So I think eventually, unless you're just wasting money, you can rebound pretty quickly. Yeah. But, you know, I think that it's important that if they can play, they do, if they can play healthy, if they can be safe. it's going to be a black mark or a sport for a long time if this becomes a disaster. And we, you know, these are, these are paid players. These are, you know, 18 to 20 year olds.

They're not getting any of the money. You know, the money isn't going to that. So, you know, let's be real. That's the reality. I mean, it's a little bit different than pro ball where everybody's opting in trying to make some money. So, coach, the most serious question I have to ask you, What's the legend of Kyle Brandt of Good Morning Football like on campus at Friends? So Kyle Brandt's become a hero of our coaches because when we get to the office, when we used to get to the office, everybody's got the NFL network on.

And we have Good Morning Football on. And Kyle is the most amazing character. And he starts doing his comedy skits and impersonations and his inspirational speeches. and it's i i really think that's one of my favorite shows that i listened to and they're very good they're very good a great friendship you can tell they mesh well together yeah and you know kyle and kyle's roommate was a guy named ross Tucker who played me out of belpail yeah ross i know ross i didn't realize so the two of those guys are roommate and it's literally i want i wish i went to princeton and graduated in 2001 at times just to be a fly on the wall because

those guys can talk literally for an hour straight and they're the funniest guys in the world and they just see things that you don't normally see no he's very he's very good and i had no idea he played at princeton i was like it's almost unfair that this guy so kyle brand if you're listening i think it's unfair that you're you were so athletic and so brilliant at the same time and great on tv so we did talk about kyle brand on this pod one last character to discuss you were jason garrett's Yeah, and Jason and the whole Goward family. And unfortunately, their dad passed away. And Jason was, in terms of being a leader, in terms of having urgency, in terms of, so Jason's

dad got him a film one year. And it was Joe Montana. We were always under center. We weren't a shotgun team. Not many teams were back in the late 1980s. And Jason saw that Joe Montana's feet were different when he took a snap. So his left foot was a little bit further. and his right foot.

And so we're in the winter working out. And Jason would make me snap to him 300 times a day after we lift. And blocking air, I grade out 100% on air, right? But after about the third day, it's pretty boring, right? You know, can I get a human out here that I can block? Yeah, exactly. You're taking these little duck steps like on air. Jason's like, no, no, I want to do this.

I want to get this right. This went on for like a month. every day 300 snaps where he had this working on that because it was just about getting a little edge and that's how Jason is it was always improving getting an edge there's no better friend than jason garrett right this guy is just an incredible person to be around and yeah um you know he's back in new york or new jersey now yeah it was great i mean he was down there in that tough job in Dallas where no matter what you do, I mean, and being a pro football coach is hard, but you're going to be in the crosshairs all the time. Listen, I, you know, as you know, John, his brother coach me at UVA and then, you know,

playing against Jason as a coach in the league, even a division rival towards the end of my career, I absolutely love the guy. I mean, they are just salt to the earth people. So shout out to the garrets. Yeah, no, they're just the entire family. Jason's wife, Brill's, a close friend. And, you know, I really can't say enough good things about every one of his brothers and he. Well, coach, I really appreciate you. I wish all football coaches had the perspective you have. It's nobody wants to, you know, forego football. And I'm not even saying that's the right answer.

But, you know, your perspective seems to be really great. And your priorities seem to be the kids. So I appreciate that. And good luck to you. Hopefully in the spring I'll come up and get a beer and watch from the stands after the vaccine when you guys are playing a six, eight games. You're welcome anytime. Just let me know. Thanks a lot, coach. Best of luck.

Appreciate you too. Thank you. So I like Bob. I might go back to, you know, obviously I can get into Princeton. So maybe I'll go back and play at Princeton if I get bored. It's a hell of a dude, man. That was great. And now we've got Caitlin Chikagian, again of Quaker Town PA, Bird Gang, and a badass. Good fighter. She's going to tell me all about fighting in the years. UFC in the era of COVID and this weekend.

Here she is. All right, Caitlin, welcome to the pod. Where are you right now? Training, hanging out. What are you doing? Right now, you know, I live in Long Island, New York. I train pretty much Long Island, New Jersey, and in Manhattan. So I'm kind of all over the place.

I don't have like a fight right now, but I'm hoping to get one booked. So I kind of just training like every day, staying ready. I mean, like today I trained twice. I'm like, everyone's getting short-noticed fights, so I got to like stay ready in case I get a fight. You know, unprecedented time. I thought at first the UFC was a little too nonchalant, but they seemed to settle in a bit,

and they got a groove going. I mean, you know, you look at football, you look at basketball, baseball. They're all team sports, so there's complications with staffing, with the volume of people, the testing. I feel like y'all got a thing that's pretty sustainable into 2021, if you guys can get over the fact

you're fighting in empty gyms and in an empty arena is like, is it sustainable? Am I missing something? Is there something that fighters are still like, this is lagging? We need to fix this. Right now, it's like this whole thing. Like the one positive thing for it is like for MMA, it's such a new and growing sport that I think it's not at such a high level behind the scenes as other sports. So there's not that many.

Like if you go to a practice, like how many people are there just for a practice? Right. I think, you know, you can't have a practice on your own. Like for me, you know, two girls, I trade with two other girls. And they were, they happened to be fighting the week before me during it. So we were like in the one girl's garage, she had mats and we were just sparring each other. Right. Like for football or basketball, you can't just train on your own and show up to the game day.

No, I mean, no, it's the hardest part is because like not just the process in need to be as a team on the same page, but the sheer volume of staff. got 53 guys on team plus practice squad plus and you've probably you know seeing where we practice in south philly you mentioned in training camp there's thousands of people like to come out to come out to practice and then you've got trainers and you've got you've got coaches which are all older dudes and like i understand that younger people we shouldn't be as worried about this but you know better safe than sorry and all that but these coaches a lot of them are not that healthy i mean you're corner people all look pretty jacked and in shape and like they fight themselves like some of these fucking football coaches. Yeah, I'd be worried if they got COVID. So I feel like it is,

it is conducive to you guys going on a run here and being the main event in the sports world because shit could hit the fan with football. It could hit, there's no sure thing about any of these leagues. Yeah. And I mean, you know, for us, it's like if one person gets sick and out, unfortunately, like the show can still go on. It's not like two players on a team are out. It's like, well, depending on what players there are, it's like the whole team's out. And then for here, it's like, okay, there's a card, one fighter test positive. You know, they can resched it. If they feel fine, they reschedule for another month, then they can still have the event

go on. And it's happened. I mean, you've had some guys and girls test positive and had to reshuffle. What about the fighting in an empty arena? That's very interesting to me psychologically because I would imagine if I don't like somebody, it's pretty easy to go beat them up anywhere or attempt to beat them up anywhere. But if I don't mind somebody, and, you know, I know there's some fighters that you fight that you don't dislike it all. But in a quiet room, so quiet that you can kind of hear the air conditioning system, is it kind of awkward to fight that person?

For me, for me, I didn't think it was, I liked it. I didn't expect to like, like, I thought I was indifferent. But after I was like, oh, that was awesome. But I think it depends how you train. I mean, some people train everyone. The thing with, like, with MMA is like everyone trains. differently like even at the highest level when I'm at like you know in the back in the locker room for the fight like I'll see like someone that I've watched way before like some super famous seven may fighter and I'm like what are they doing that's how they warm up for a file see some people like going ballistic screaming in the warm up room and then some people are like sleeping it's yeah you know what I mean so everyone's different but like for me what the way I train and I spar a lot my coach is very vocal and he talks to us all the time in training, so I'm used to hearing him and I do really well when I hear him. So then in the fight with

no crowds, it felt exactly like sparring. Like when we spar, we do two people at time in a cage. We're at sparring for like, you know, for an hour and a half because we only do two people at a time where most other gyms will have like a huge mat and everyone's sparring all over the place. So the fight day feels a little bit different. This felt exactly like it does in practice. So I really liked it. And I liked you could also hear your other corners. That's the part I'm curious about because like even in a real fight and I've never been in an octagon where it's packed and like you've got crowd noise. Can you hear the other corner people and do you try to game that?

Like if you're over in the corner and you hear chatter, you're like, okay, they're trying to tell him or her to do this and fighters pick up on, you know, what that they're being coached to do. Do you send like smoke signals now that it's like empty? I'm pretty good at hearing like my coach. And sometimes I also hear the other corners during the fight. But now it was like during, when you're sitting on your stool, you can hear them in between rounds, which is very interesting. Luckily, like my coach is like, he's crazy.

He does like, he's done this for years. He has a whole code system. So it really worked for this situation. Like when he's coaching us, we have codes for everything. So, you know, some people think it's like kind of crazy and stuff. But for this situation, it worked amazing, you know. So it is a little bit like baseball. sign stealing, you know, trying to game each other's like, you know, codes and vernacular.

And then in this situation, it's just on steroids because everything is audible. And it's going to be like that in all the sports, but I'd never thought about it in MMA. Yeah, the first couple events that they had since this, they had the commentators sit, they sit right on the, you know, on the cage. And DC was commentating and all the fighters were saying, they're like, oh, they could hear him. And the one girl was like, I kept hearing him say. that when I shot for a takedown, I was only going for one attempt, and that's why I was missing it. And she goes, so then in the round two and three, I heard him say that.

So I went for two or three, and she ended up like winning the fight like that. And then by the time I, and so many fighters were saying, like, I could hear the commentators saying, like, picking up on my mistakes and I adjusted. Yeah. They said, and that were my event, they had the commentators, like, sit back with like a shield and on one so you couldn't hear though. Oh, no. Well, at least, you know, D.C. is a good commentator, so you can actually trust him. I don't want, I don't know if there's any bad commentators, but you've got to be careful, like consider the source, I'm sure.

You're like, who said that? Yeah, yeah. A good one. What about Fight Island? You've got, I'm sure you know some people who have fought there. I know you haven't fought there or been there. We've got a pack card this weekend. We'll talk about that.

What do you hear about the process, the downsides, the upsides, or the things that fighters are like, it's lagging there? Yeah, I mean, at first I was like, I got my fight, and it was in Vegas. and then like I was like oh man I wish I was fighting in Fight Island that they started those events like three weeks after my fight and I was like at first I was bummed out and now like that I'm seeing how it's going I'm super happy that mine was in Vegas um the process seems pretty tough I mean if I would have fought because I know I have a couple people I train with that are fighting they had to fly to Vegas get tested and then stay quarantine in their hotel room for 48 hours then from

And then they get tested again. And from there, then they fly to Abu Dhabi. They get tested. And then they're quarantined in their hotel room for 48 hours. And then they get tested again. So like during like, you know, four days before your way in, you have to be stuck in your hotel room. You can't even go in the hallway.

You have to be in your hotel room for 48 hours. Now for me, I know like when you're cutting weight that week, like you need to get your workouts in. So some of them, I saw like a page manager that was like, doing jump rope on her balcony and like that's all she could do. Right. She could be in the room that she had like her husband cornering her and then her other two coaches were in the other room and she couldn't even see them for 48 hours. So it's like, you know, that's four days before, the week before your fight where you're

just stuck in a hotel room. You're like doing tricep dips like between the table with the TV on it and the bed. Like what the hell, man? Like I, it's crazy. And I was thinking about the jet lag. I mean, you know, obviously you would be. be coming from the East Coast. If that happened, you'd be going west and then switching time zones again and boarding a flight. Like flying sucks. A lot of people don't understand when you

go international to play. We go play in London. Sitting for that long sucks. It's so hard on your back, your joints, shortens everything. And then the time change, like we'd be in London six days before and I felt like a zombie the entire time. And that's not even under these circumstances. So how do you hear they're dealing with that jet lag, you know, part? The one thing I think that no one's talking about too is there they um because they want it live and it to be like here at the normal time they're fighting at they fights they're fighting there at like 2 a.m. oh wow yeah so in in one way i don't know exactly what the time difference is there maybe it's like they just stay on the schedule but they're like training and like have to stay awake they can't they almost have to fight themselves

not to address to the time yeah so even just all that i'm like man that's crazy like all that different stuff, like different factors and like just not being able to leave your room and, you know, it's a lot, you know. I can only imagine that because I get like, I'm not, I'm never afraid to play football, but the anxiety of sitting in a room before you have to go do something so violent. And you're just alone with your thoughts. And by the way, if you're in Abu Dhabi, I don't know what the digs are like there with the TV, but I don't even know if you have like, you know, normal cable news networks to make

you feel at home or like American movies. Like you're just like in a weird place, I can imagine mentally. A lot of the fighters are posting like on their their Instagram like right outside their window. It's like around the hotel is in the middle of a racetrack. Yeah. Like a racetrack. There's like cars racing around.

So like that's all we have to look at for 48 hours. They're just watching cars. Yeah. Not even the movie. Just cars zipping around this hotel. What about the, the, the, the dig? like I know Vegas is probably pretty sweet when you guys go out there. They put you up at nice hotels.

I mean, do you all have it like kind of a, you know, a UFC hotel when you're in there fighting in Vegas? For ours, actually, like I've had like 10 UFC fights. And the last one was the first time I actually ever fought in the UFC. So or in Vegas. But there, because it was just last minute and everything, you were almost like in like an apartment complex. It was super weird. It definitely not like it wasn't it was it did the job but it was for the circumstances, you know, with everything being shut down because they had to get the whole hotel and everything, both last minute. I think there they're in like the W hotel like, but it's it doesn't matter.

You can't leave the hotel. Yeah, but at least it's a nice one, I guess. So it's a pack card. It's a, you know, everybody's excited about, you know, some of the, I mean, I hear top to bottom and I'm no expert, but top to bottom. I hear it's really good and might be one of the best of the year, if not the best. Is there one you're most excited to see? I'm excited to see. I like the Jose Aldo and Peter Yan fight.

I just loved watching Peter Yan over, I feel like maybe like a year and a half ago I saw him fight and it was kind of like in the UFC, but before he was like, you know, he was kind of like, I was like, who's this guy? He's so good. And like I had a couple people who had, no, this guy's really good. and I started watching him and he's been like my favorite to watch. So I'm excited for that

and then I'm also excited for the Rose Nomineas and Jessica Androch fight. I think in the beat, they fought before they, this is a rematch and the first time they fought Rose looked like like insane. Like the best like boxing I've ever seen in MMA. Not just for the girls, just in any fighter. I feel like she was like the boxing she was doing

in that fight. It was like so insane. And then it was kind of like a freak thing where she got slammed on her head and got knocked out. So she was, I think she was an underdog in going into that first fight. She got knocked out. And now I think she's a two to one favorite in this fight. Right. Right. Pretty interesting. You know, that probably usually doesn't happen that often. So I'm interested to see that fight just because she looked so good in the beginning that I want. I was like, oh my God, I want to keep seeing that. And then it was almost like, oh, wait. Like, some freak thing happened where she got like knocked out on her head. Why do you think that there's so much excitement and I think, you know, justifiably,

I feel like when I look at this in football, we deal with, all right, women joining staffs, coaching staffs and scouting and there's some resistance. And obviously like football is different because of the size difference and that sort of thing. And like we talk, Carly Lloyd said, I'd like to be a kicker. And I think that's great. WMBA doesn't get as much attention as the NBA. It feels like female fighters are viewed in a really respectful light. Like, you know, the lens with which we get excited about very organically,

females fighting in UFC, from the outside looking in, it seems like it's pretty great. Is that, am I misreading that? Or is there, do you feel like the excitement is where it should be when women are fighting compared to when men are fighting? Yeah, I know. I definitely agree with that. I mean, any other sport, it's like, you know, people talk. about like how oh it's not fair i mean like in mma you're getting paid like if you fit's my first

fight and you're like it's a pretty standard contract right yeah we're getting paid the same um so and if anything it's like less competitive for the girls because there's less in the sport we get kind of more you almost get more eyes on you because you know there's probably only like two sometimes three girl fights for card and then you kind so you kind of stand out because if some a casual fan's watching and doesn't really know and you know and you know you know doesn't know anyone like they could be like all the fighters kind of look the same or I don't remember it they don't know their personality or anything but a girl fight they're always like oh oh a girl fight you know sometimes if someone's watching a fight with like their wives or girlfriends and they're like oh I like watching this fight or whatever reason it kind of just stands out a little bit yeah oh if anything you get more a little bit more eyes on you than you would if you were just a you know a guy who's in their fourth UFC fight on an under card um give me one upset prediction for the weekend and and give me a main event prediction if you can. I think I don't know where it is on the card, but the one Amanda Rebos and Paige Van Zand.

I think Paige Van Zandt's like like I think it's like a six to one underdog. Wow. I was kind of surprised. I think I didn't even know the odds and I was like I think I thought for sure she was going to win and then when you see the odds and you start second guessing it. Right, because you're always like Vegas knows something but you know these fighters. Yeah, yeah. And then I just, I think that she, I mean, I'm not saying like, oh, I think she's going to, like, kill the other girl. But I was pretty confident that she was going to win that fight. Yeah. I think she's just the other girls, like, only had like two or three UFC fights. And Paige's been in the UFC, like, longer than, longer than me. And I've been in for like four years. Yeah, Paige's a stud. I've followed her a little bit. So, yeah, I mean. underestimates her. They're like, oh, she's just an Instagram girl. I'm like, yeah, but she throws down. She's scrappy. Like, you know.

Yeah, that's quite the double standard because a guy could thirst trap all day on Instagram and we still respect their athletic abilities. I mean, it could be a full. I mean, Tom Brady. Tom Brady. I mean, he's the goat. I mean, the guy's just got a chiseled jawline. He's got the butt chin. He does cologne commercials and nobody blinks.

I mean, so I'm with you. Okay. So I'm putting my money on page. And then how about the main event? The main event, I definitely think Usman's going to win. I'm kind of, I'm super bum because I was so excited for. Luciman and Gilbert Burns, the original main event. And it sucks when like for these high, like high level fights when someone takes it on such

short notice because you're like, man, like they're not getting, someone got a full camp. The other person's not getting a full camp. Whether you train or not, you're not, you know what I mean? It's not the same. So I'm like, I feel like you get kind of as a fan watching, you get kind of jipped out of a real fight of what it could be. I mean, it's great that we have a fight no matter what. but I think if they were both on a full camp, I still think Usum would have won,

but especially with Mazadol just taking it short notice. Yeah, Mazadol seems like a type of guy who, though, mentally is okay with taking a short notice fight. Yeah, yeah, mentally, definitely, but it's like, you know, Lusimans already, I think, a little bit, like a little bit notch above him, and then he has the advantage of a full camp. Yeah.

So, yeah, I definitely think Usman's been on. What's the nastiest injury you've seen in a fight in person? I mean, I didn't really see the person, but I saw like pictures right after in the next morning of Johanna, her last fight when she fought Wei Ling. And that was like a five round. Oh, that was bad. Her face was like here. And I saw like a picture of her at the hospital and then the next morning. And her black and blue was like all down.

It looked like our face was painted. It was like all the way down. And like the bruising went down to her neck. and like her eyes her forehead was swollen like over her eyes like she couldn't see for like two days like it looked bad in the fight but the point you like I saw a picture of what she looked like the next day and I like didn't know that that was even possible for someone's face to the fight and they just sort of like you're good it's just swollen like nothing's broken that interests me as much as anything because she looks like she walked into a giant beehive you know and and I always wonder because you know

I've heard stories about Ronda Rousey's teeth, like for a month after a fight. Everybody sees the pictures. You know, maybe somebody posts the next day, but like, what does it feel like after a fight? I mean, the number one thing I'm wondering is if I won, like a title fight, there's still a chance I might have a concussion, yeah? Yeah. So I can't go out and pop champagne all night. Or do guys do it? You girls do it anyways.

Like you do it because you're adrenaline still going, so you don't really feel the injury. So when you get back from the club. Oh, yeah. That's like football, but like y'all are way, it's way worse because it's all like we used to go out and I'd go out one time and I had like a really bad thigh bruise and I was out dancing and it turned out my like it actually, if you ever had a real bad one that drains suddenly, I went to the bathroom and take a leak. I'm having the night of my life and then I get carried out of the club because I can't walk and they have to drain it. It's ugly. But like you don't know because your adrenaline's just kicking. And I wonder like, do you guys wake up like what's the apex of the pay?

Is it, you know, next day at 6 o'clock? Is it three days later? It's pretty much like right before you go to bed. And then like in the morning when you wake up and you have to go to the airport, you're like, I've had like most of my fights when I come back on the airport, I'm in a wheelchair. Like, and I won't break anything. Like there were so many times where I'm like, I definitely broke my foot. It's so swollen. My shins and my feet are so swollen that like I can't even walk.

I'm completely black. I'm like, I definitely broke both my ankles. and I'll go home, I'll go to the hospital, and they're like, no, it's just swollen. I'm like, how is this possible? Like, I'm in a wheelchair in the airport, but I walked out of it. Like, I didn't, a whole three-round fight,

it was totally fine. I walked out of the cage. And then as soon as the night goes on, I remember one of my fights, we were in our, after the fight, we got dinner, came back, and we're in our hotel room, and I was like, my foot's swelling up right now,

and I was in my sneaker. I had sneakers on, and I was like, I can feel my, my foot expanding and then all like I took my shoe off and all of a sudden it was like and then I couldn't like a slide on it was like at that moment I'm like now my foot's swelling and as soon as I took my shoe off I like couldn't wear I couldn't wear like a slide for like four days and it wasn't broken so is the worst pain like after a fight probably like your lower extremities or like your shins or is there some hidden thing that you're like people don't know if you don't fight but this thing

hurts um I think for the most part I mean for me I kick a lot so it's but like your shins and your feet because there's so many like bones in your feet when you kick like you hit the person's knee or they block you hit their just their foot hitting their elbow because you always wear shin pads when you train and then it's like the one time you're throwing it 100% and you hit the point of someone's elbow like don't feel it there um and then I've had like one fight where I would won three round decision I feel I'm like I feel great I might post fight interview I have no injuries I'm right I'm right I have no injuries I'm ready to go, I want to fight as soon as possible. And then, like, two days later, I'm like, in, I kept saying, I'm like, my arm hurts here. I think I got, like, pulled muscle or something. And I was, like, in the drive-thru at, like, Starbucks, I was like, I can't look my arm. And I ended up there like, yeah, you have, I didn't want to get an MRI because I'm like, I feel so stupid. Like, yeah.

And then I know you have a fully torn labor. I'm like, from what? But you're like, yo, good news, bad news, the good news is I'm not a wimp. The bad news is I'm not a whim. from like, totally. How about head trauma? You worry about that in your career? Obviously, we all probably do in contact sports,

but, like, you know, is that something you worry about long term? And have you ever thought about limiting, like, your career or anything like that? Definitely not. I think that, I don't know, now on sparring, like, or in training, a lot of fighters are getting away from sparring. And some, like, only, some don't, like, some don't spar at all. They're like, I'm not far anymore. It's not good for you.

Or some are like only spar when they have a like, you know, or in a fight camp and they'll spar twice. And I'm kind of like the opposite. I spar. I don't have a fight coming up. I'm sparring like four days a week. And then I start pretty much every day. But also, you know, I don't get hit that much, you know?

So like my style, I like, my style is where I move all the time. I don't, in any of my fights, I don't really, even fights where I've lost. I don't take a lot of damage and I don't get hit a lot. So I think that that's different if your style is just like standing in there and bawling like crazy. And like sparring, like I said, I don't really get hit that much. And I think it's different if you're like, you know, if you're a guy that's fights at 205, you might not want to spar with other guys that fight at 205 all the time.

Maybe that's a little different. But for me, that's like the best way to stay in shape and like to really get better. so I spar more than more than most people. Yeah. I don't, like I said, I don't take damage. I'd never, we were saying this, me and a couple of people I was training with, they're like, oh, you know, like when you get rocked

and you kind of see stars, I was like, yeah, you don't feel that, huh? I was like, I'm like, are you kidding? I'm like, you experienced, it was like the one girl I trained with. I'm like, you felt that before? She's like, yeah, it's not like knocked out, but she's like, when you get rocked

and you're like out of it and kind of black out for a second. I'm like, I've never experienced that. What's harder going from like Brazilian jiu-jitsu or some sort of, you know, martial arts background to learning wrestling or the other way around? If you're first a striker, I think it's harder to like learn the other stuff if you're on like a time crunch. So if you're a little bit older. Right. You know, because I think the stuff with jiu-jitsu and wrestling is more, it takes more time.

Whereas if you're, you could be just like a kind of a freak athlete and just kind of pick up on some stuff pretty well and learn the striking a little bit easier. but even if you are, you know, that freak athlete, it takes time to learn the jujitsu and wrestling. So I think that stuff's harder to learn. Who's the best all-around athlete? Like, if they, in MMA, if you had to, you know, set up some competition where they could do everything but fight? I mean, I guess, I want to say John Jones,

just because that's what, like, everyone. Yeah, well, his brother leads me to believe he'd be pretty good at almost anything because his brother's a damn good. football player. Yeah, I would say John Jones. And then the one guy that's fighting, I can never say he's fighting this weekend. Alexander, the guy's fighting Max Holloway. He used to play like high level, like in his country, I guess like rugby. And apparently he used to be like 220 pounds and now he fights at 145 pounds. Oh wow. Yeah. So from what I heard is when he was like he was like 220 like jacked, but he's only like, I don't know, he's really short. I think he's only like, yeah, five five.

And days, so I've heard they're like, he's like a freak strong, like insanely, thinly strong. Like, he's like pretty crazy. And like he's strong and like super explosive. So I've heard that he is. But I definitely think that like John Jones is like, that's what sets him apart. He's definitely different. I think no matter what sport he would have gone with, he would have excelled at it. What's your pre-fight routine?

Like, do you sleep the night before pretty sound? What do you do during the day? So I usually sleep really, really good the night before, just because the night before that is weight cut night. I usually don't sleep at all. So I sleep really good, like a full stomach of food. And then when I work, I do like a workout in the morning. So in the morning of the fight, I do like a full workout, like dripping sweat. And so that's kind of like my routine.

I feel like not that many people used to do that, but now most fighters are doing a workout in the morning because you don't want... Really? Yeah, they call it like a shakeout. Like you because and every time I... Yeah, we say shakeout, but ours is so bullshit. We just go in a hotel ballroom and do some high knees and shit. Yeah, yeah.

I do like a, you know, I just, it does it's like a full workout and I get like, so I break a sweat because the two days before I would just spend cutting weight and I didn't really like get that workout and I just want to and every time I do that morning workout, I'm like, man, I'm tired. My cardio feels like shit. That's why you do this. And then I feel fine by the fight. So, you know, for me, I'm kind of a, like, when I fight, I tend to be like a slow starter.

So I definitely like to get that workout in the morning. And then during the warm up and the fight, I definitely, like, warm up really hard. Now, that's something I've learned over time because I tend to be a slow starter. So I pretty much, like, spar in the back. Like, I have, like, one of my corner. I'm like put your gear on and I pretty much just like spar them full out. I hear you. I hate I used to hate like early in games because you just like especially you've been sitting a while like you said. Yeah. It's just because you get caught in this thing where

you're like I want to recover. I want to be physically fresh but I don't want to be rusty and like cold because that rust builds up quick. Yeah. And I mean, fight is only three rounds. If you lose that first round, you have, you have the pressure, you have to win the next two rounds. It sounds so simple. But my coach always is like, you have to win the first round because then you only it sounds like you only have to win one more. Because if you have two in a row, it's so hard. Yeah.

What's the most embarrassing song on your pre-fight playlist? Probably like anything like Ariana Grande. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's funny. I used to be like embarrassing. like, oh my God, I have to play like, I have to play like. Layer. Yeah, I have to have like, you know, hardcore music in the back.

Now I'm like, I don't care. I'm like, whatever. I know. What the fuck do you have to prove? You're about to go beat somebody up. You're worried about like Ariana Grande. Come on. Yeah.

And the thing is, it'll play. And then like other people in the locker and we're like, oh, I like this song. And do you, do you, what do you walk into? Um, so actually I walk into DMX for a little of that. Oh, wow. Yeah, you probably weren't expecting that. No, I know what? I kind of did it.

I expect, you know, a greater, your greater Philly area girl is what I'm going to, I'm going to, so you got some shit to you, man. So I definitely, I can respect the DMX there. And then lastly, for the listeners, you did confirm this before we got on this. You are a birds fan. Yes, absolutely.

My whole family is like diehard birds fan. You can't say, like, when I went to high school, there was no, like, there's no Steelers fans. That's not how it works. Nah. When I go back to, like, when I go, like, back to where my parents live and pets waiting on stuff, it's like, you know, like every teacher, every school teacher has their nails painted, like green, blue, like everyone, you walk into a grocery store,

and even when it's not football season, like, it's great, like, everyone. I love it. I love it. Even in New York, it's not like that. I think there's so many people from different places. but like it's crazy there like and actually where I live in Long Island it's funny um like my backyard's kind of attached to someone else's backyard and uh we don't really ever like talk to them or see that neighbor because they're like they're like on another street and I like walked my dog

and I saw in the front yard they had an eagle's um like in their front one time I saw him out there and I was like birds fan he's like yeah let's go yeah like we got to be kind of quiet but yeah let's go like give him the head nod so any birds fans out there uh making sure you watch Caitlin fight incredibly gracious with your time. I wish you the best of luck and hope you get a fight soon. I'll be watching and thanks for being on the pod. Awesome. Thanks for having me.