Green Light with Chris Long - Victor Cruz! Paul Rabil! Current State of the New York Giants, MNF Recap & PLL Championship

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

A couple sports collide today as we welcome on Victor Cruz and Paul Rabil. First, Chris recaps MNF and talks a few of the viral storylines from the games including the Steelers offense, TJ Watt and Alex Highsmith and Bryce Young's inability to QB sneak. Former NYG Victor Cruz talks his career as an overnight sensation in New York, meeting Jay-Z, Odell Beckham's first practice and the infamous boat photo. After Victor, we welcome Paul Rabil to preview this weekend's PLL Championship presented by Cash App, talk Chris' lacrosse career and Johns Hopkins in the mid 2000s. Please consider donating to the GoFundMe for Dale Mooney, the Patriots fan who tragically passed away this passed weekend: https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-amazing-husband-and-father-dale-mooney (2:33) - Hotels, Layup Line and Kyle Long in the Dallas Airport (13:45) - Deion Sanders Leading from the Front (19:39) - Pittsburgh Steelers vs Cleveland Browns Recap: Steelers Offensive Woes and Defensive Strengths, Cleveland's Questions and the Current AFCN Outlook? (41:48) - New Orleans Saints vs Carolina Panthers Recap: Can Bryce Young Withstand the Beating? (55:53) - Victor Cruz talks with Chris Long and Dr. Fax about his career in New York, Being an Overnight Sensation, Playing with Odell Beckham, Nate's antics in NY and the Current State of the Giants (1:39:53) - Paul Rabil on Professional Lacrosse, the PLL Championship and Chris as a Laxer, Presented by Cash App This podcast is brought to you by Cash App. With multiple tools for saving, spending, and sending, Cash App is the easy way to stay in control of your money. Cash App is a financial platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partner(s). Make sure to check out Fax and the King every Wednesday on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FaxAndTheKing Have some interesting takes, some codebreaks or just want to talk to the Green Light Crew? We want to hear from you. Call into the Green Light Hotline and give us your hottest takes, your biggest gripes and general thoughts. Day and night, this hotline is open. Green Light Hotline: ‪[phone]‬ Send any Talent Search submissions to: [e-mail] Include any video of your talents, takes and bits as well as a little bit about yourself. Love hearing from the Green Light fans. Also, check out our paddling partners at Appomattox River Company to get your canoes, kayaks and paddleboards so you're set to hit the river this summer. https://paddleva.com/ Green Light Spotify Music: https://open.spotify.com/user/951jyryv2nu6l4iqz9p81him9?si=17c560d10ff04a9b   Spotify Layup Line: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1olmCMKGMEyWwOKaT1Aah3?si=675d445ddb824c42   Green Light Tube YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenLightTube1   Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Who's the coolest person that in person came up and was like, yo, I love your game. Oh, my God. I mean, the biggest thing, I mean, Jay-Z, and then later signing to, like, his sports agency, and then sitting in a room with him, and my only question in the entire meeting, and I go, like, why me?

Like, of all the athletes you could choose in New York City or in the world, like, why me? He goes, well, up until this point, you've done everything that I would do if I were in your shoes. And I was like, holy shit. I was like, okay, noted. Where do I sign? Welcome to the Green Light podcast.

A couple sports intersecting today. We've got first Monday night football recap everything that went down in the two games across the four teams on Monday night. Chris is going to talk about it, review it, recap it. We also talk a little Dion Sanders and is Bryce Young a QB sneakable quarterback to wrap up our quick hit through the NFL? And then we get Nate Collins in here. Dr. Fax brings on his good buddy, Victor Cruz. New York giant Victor Cruz. They were in the same draft class together.

They joined the Jets together. And Nate was sitting right next to Victor Cruz when Victor Cruz went off and gained a couple hundred thousand followers in what felt like a couple hours. Chris gets Victor's take on the current state of the New York Giants. What really went into the boat photo with the G-Men, Odo Belcom's first practice, and why Victor Cruz decided to let Jay-Z represent him. And then our second sport of the day, we go to lacrosse.

Paul Rable, the headman at the PLL, former player, former all-star, former everything, now co-founder of the PLL. It's championship weekend. The Atlas and the Water Dogs face off this weekend. Paul gives you a little preview, what to expect, maybe what to bet, and Chris and Paul go down memory lane

of their respective lacrosse careers, where it might have gone wrong for Chris, and what Johns Hopkins was like in the mid-2000s. Y'all enjoyed this show. We moved back on Friday with our usual suspects, making in Stanford Steve. Stay tuned for that and we will catch you then.

I'm going to be square with you guys. Pardon the energy. It is 10.46 p.m. Came in here after a day inside the NFL, got off the plane, came home, kissed the babies, went to the diamond, got shelled by some guys

that work at a Mexican restaurant. I'm not so... Those fellows look pretty familiar. I'm not sure they might just be sponsored by the next semester. Yeah, they're sponsored by Guadalajara. Because we sure played them last week. Yeah, I was expecting people that could make bomb-ass tequitos to come out to the game, like, at least after the game, they'd have like a white table set out with like, I don't know, Mexican Street tacos. But nah, they don't even

work at the restaurant. They're just guys that are good at softball. Hired guns. They were hitting the ball left and right. And I was out there just, you know, I couldn't do anything about it. I got shelled. I'm still sweating. You know, I let Tom. Strikeout. I had a strikeout. So you're now, you're now tied. I had a strikeout? Yeah, you did.

Really? Yeah, you struck out to end an inning. No shit. Yeah, shit. I was kind of like SpongeBob, Mr. Crabb with the like the shaking underwater scene. Yeah. Giff. So I wasn't really all there.

You're now tied for the leading career all time green light strikeouts. Nice. I thought you're going to say walks or something. No. I think you have that. So I'm tired. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm tired, man. Like, it's just been a long day. I told you I was, I was wiped on Monday. And then this inside the NFL thing is like, it's a little bit more travel than I'm used to, like going to Philly in and out in a day. But I decided this week, I need a night at a hotel. You know, I need to treat myself. I'm going to go up there Monday night. You know, like get a little work done, pass out. I'm working on three hours sleep. So I get to the West and they drop me off at the wrong side of the West and the Uber driver. I'm convinced he knew that he was dropping me off on the wrong side,

but you know sometimes when they do that lazy shit. Yep. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know where the fuck I am. I've never been to the Mount Laurel Weston. So I walk in and it's just like a bunch of ballrooms. It's like one of those ballroom hotels, right? So I'm like walking through these ballrooms. I'm exhausted, little stoned, kind of felt like the shining.

But then it hit me. there was this really warm feeling that came over me and it was familiarity the weston is like the epitome of the hotel that we would stay at on the road like when i played and i loved going to the hotel like loved it and the older i got the more i loved it because you get married you have kids people are loud there are people in town your wife hogs the blankets like it's gotten the point where and she was say i hog the blankets because that's the story in every marriage um it's just both you are denying it but i got to the point where and this is something that i suggest to everybody listening to the podcast it's good for your marriage it's good for your sleep have your own blanket in the bed i don't know if you

have ever done that if you cohabitate but like it makes the world a difference so i love a hotel and i love a weston man i love the tv right next to the bed i love the outlets there's fucking outlets everywhere there's outlets in the lamps the commode is a strong commode it's not like it can withstand some heat yeah it's not like it's seen worse you know like you know sometimes you sit some of these high-end construction toilets like the ones i have in my house they're a little bit flimsy actually when you get right down to it they make the fucking weston commodes out of like granite it's amazing i love everything about the weston i really do i miss the ballrooms i miss the eating ice cream with my buddies till 11.30 at night on, well, not 1130, but before a night game, we'd be up pretty late.

Watching college football, sitting around the hallways, cracking jokes. I had that, like, that nostalgia that hit me. And I had a great time at the Weston. And I got to work the next day. And I was like, Ryan Clark was like, where'd you stay last night? I was like, I came in last night early night at the hotel. He's like, you got a night at the hotel. He goes, I love going to the hotel. who does it he's like that's a married man thing is like you know everybody's like why would you want to go stay at the weston you got this beautiful house like it's just so fucking quiet like you know it's just a one night of quiet so shout out to the weston i wanted to start the pot off by shout i'm not to weston they don't pay me anything they got ice machines they got heavenly beds strong wifi love the weston call us we can do some ad reads there's more where that came from I want to give a hello to Dallas, Fort Worth, Texas. You guys probably haven't seen the video,

but there was a naked man walking through that fucking airport that looked, I mean, like, Dead Ringer for Kyle. I mean, maybe Kyle's ass is a little bit bigger, which is just, but this guy walks like Kyle. I mean, he's just sauntering through the airport. The guy taking the video is like, this guy's got to be six, seven. He's walking by TGI Friday's with his twig and berries out.

There's just people gawking. What's crazy to me is the people, look at the guy with the roller. Go back, the guy with the roller doesn't even react. He just keeps on going to D-16. So I don't know what kind of drugs this guy's on. I don't know if it's like he's an influencer and this is some publicity stunt. I don't know if it's Kyle. I haven't asked Kyle.

I don't know if the Cowboys brought Kyle in for the workout or something like was there an injury to the interior O line Saturday or Sunday that I don't even know what day it is but Sunday that I don't know about because that looks like fucking Kyle Long walking C-29 he's walking towards Gates C-29 through C whatever the fuck but it's Kyle Long did he go through security in that state like where did it at what point does he lose his clothes Well, what you do is you go into the bathroom with the, the methamphetamine that you smuggled through security and you, and I figure, I don't know what you guys do with your meth, but do you just snort it? Like, what kind of drug has you walking naked through Dallas Fort Worth Airport, dude? AC's pumping.

I don't know what you're working with, you know? Fuck, airports are dirty too. Some people, just off the fact that this guy's walking around in his bare feet, would be disgusted with this video. let alone the fact. Yeah, dude. You guys just riding the moving sidewalk. Guys riding the moving sidewalk naked. You know, he's in Hudson News,

buying a bag of dried apples for, where's my wallet? I don't have one. He just pulls it out of his ass. He's, he's suitcases his American Express. Like, what is he doing, dude? What are you doing, guy?

Like, you're, oh my God. And there's no authorities. Like, this video is eight seconds. You would think it would take four seconds for somebody to neutralize the naked man of his stature. Like, get everybody down there. I need the National Guard. This guy's fucking crazy. And then he points at the guy who's taking the video because the guy's like, there's a naked man in the Dallas Fort Worth Airport.

And the guy's like, yeah, there is. And he points at the camera. So the guy's coherent, but he's naked and he's at the airport. So go check out the video. Mitchell Schwartz, who saw the same thing I saw, said, someone go get Kyle Long. Hey, layup line today, because I got to do it.

I've been getting away from the layup line. I am sorry about that. I don't know, it's just one more thing to worry about, but you guys like it. Some people hit me up and they're like, yeah, we like the music. I'll go footsteps in the dark, the Isley brothers, but the live version. the other night I was on Twitter X and I saw some former teammates arguing about the voices of Ron Isley and Teddy Pendergrass and I was like this is like a not my business argument right like kind of one of those things I'm like yeah not my business but I definitely have picked the side in the argument it was Snacks Harrison arguing with Anthony Johnson one of my former teammates LSU stand out

and play with him on the Patriots. Great guy. Love the guy. But I don't think he can say, and I know Teddy P's a Philly guy and what might have been, but like vocally, it's Ron Isley, dude.

Listen to footsteps in the dark, live. There's a couple other names I throw in the hat, but I was afraid to. Like, Bill Withers, for instance, doesn't get enough credit. He's talking about voices. So anyways, lay up line. All right.

here's the deal there was a terrible situation that happened in foxborough and there was a fight in the stands and like you know when you hear horror stories about fights it's usually not the punch it's the guy falling down and getting flatbacked on the concrete i've heard actually there was a guy at uvae who got in a fight like fair fight the whole thing outside i think actually i don't know who instigated but guy hit the pavement died and you know this this incident resulted the same way in new england a dolphins fan it doesn't matter whose team you know the fan roots for they're two human beings it should have nothing to do with the guy had a tyreek hill jersey on tyreek said early in the week that he doesn't like pat's fans I saw a tweet today that was like, he's liable. No, he's not. The two human beings need to decide that it's not worth it to fight at a fucking pro football game. And we've been guilty of joking about these fights and that sort of thing.

But this is the thing that can happen. And I feel just terrible about it. I mean, the guy was there with his kid. The guy's name was Dale Mooney. I just wanted to shout out Savon Ahmed from the Dolph. for stepping up and sharing a go fund me. So we'll attach that to the show right there on Spotify or on Apple, wherever you consume the podcast.

YouTube, I think we can do that too, right, Reed? So there's that. That was terrible. And, you know, it's a fucking football game. It's like the Dion thing. I'll just get into it right now. I thought Dion said something today that was so needed. He got up in front of the podium,

and he has just continually aced his post-game pressers, his media sessions, the whole thing. The guy's brilliant. And I think the good human being in him really shines in a situation like this where the cat from Colorado State, I don't know the guy's name, but everybody's seen the hit. supposedly a good player and definitely a dirty hit.

I don't know if he's a dirty player every week or if he got gassed up and made a terrible decision, but Travis Hunter is out. He's out for a month, his lacerated kidney. Like these are car accident injuries. It's a violent game. It was a kind of thing where when the hit happened,

I was like, he gets ejected, right? Or there's like some, you know, something that happens, right? But it didn't. And I almost felt like it was like, I have no frame of reference. I have not seen a guy just hit a guy this late on the sideline. So the guy gets fucking death threats.

Like people are emailing him or messaging him like, I'm going to kill you. You know what a death threat is. Messaging his family too. Messaging his family. I don't know what it is about today, but I just feel like people are very callous. And I also think people lack critical thinking skills. People have a really hard time taking two thoughts. that seem diametrically opposed, even though they're not,

and deciding that they're not mutually exclusive. The one thought being that this is a dog ship play, and I wouldn't have blamed anybody for lining this kid up Saturday night. You know, I could have been sleeping in the fourth quarter. Somebody could have just absolutely clean this guy's clock around the pile, concussion, whatever it was, and I would have said he had it coming to him. But death threats are like a whole other thing, man. like we're talking about football we're talking about a game it's like we're just talking about

the patriots fan it's a fucking game you know just just like be able to at the end of the game say it's a college kid and i'm a grown up presumably unless you're a fucking teenager some of these xbox kids you know like they're not above it but it's a grown man writing a college kid saying I'm going to kill you. Like, again, it's ridiculous. And the fact that, you know, I don't know if you hang around a lot of people that, you know, after something like this, are like, well, he kind of, he's getting what he deserves. But I was in a group text with the guy and he was like, you know, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I'm like, that is the most dangerous fucking saying on the internet right now. It's like, I agree on wingsuit guys and, you know, people that do things

that statistically lead to death. Like people that hang out of a moving car get hit by a stop sign, like curtains, Humpty Dumpty situation. But this guy made a dirty football play. And you're saying like his family should be threatened. People lack critical thinking skills in 2023. And sometimes, rarely,

you get the one guy that can calm every everybody the fuck down that has sense and Dion was the one guy and today came out and said that kid's a good player he made a mistake I'm not even gonna call him dirty which I think he's taking the high road but I think he means this death threats are way out of bounds and like I cannot believe and somebody made the point I can't believe that we're giving a guy so much credit and we should because it's needed for saying something like death threats are too far.

The climate is crazy out there right now in the world, dude. It's just nuts. And we've talked about how Dion's kind of like a politician, like the way he handles those press conferences, like settling everybody down. That's incredible. Yeah, he's great.

I didn't want to say it, but you said politician. I was like, I was typing out notes for the show and I was like, Dion president, question mark. And I'm like honestly like fuck and somebody you know they'll point to Tommy Tuberville and shit and I'll be like yeah it's a fucking different deal. I think Dion's great. I think that was I rarely get you know I'm kind of dry and I struggle to tweet because I'm so like I don't want to get excited about anything. But today I was like oh I got to love this up because fuck an adult in the room. Right. It's not just morally responsible. It's also smart as a football. It's team that has a huge game this weekend where they're 20 point dogs and needs to like refocus on that are they 20 point dogs yeah against organ and shout out Travis hunter because he

did the same he forgave the guy on his podcast he was he was like you know it it's a football play it happens I expect it when you know I expect something when I put on my helmet and step on the field and I don't know if he means that or not but good for him saying whatever if I were him I'd be like I'm coming to get you motherfucker but Travis hunter He's gotten under stress over. This kid's a speed bump for him. And he got on one of these live streams. I don't even know what to call it.

He's on Twitch or something wearing a giraffe suit. Like just hanging out. Is Travis Hunter okay? He's okay. He's wearing a fucking giraffe suit. I want to be good enough at something one day that I can wear a fucking giraffe suit and look cool and confident and classy. I love the Colorado Buffaloes.

All right, Monday night football. You know, it's Wednesday morning for many of you, Tuesday night for us. I was traveling last night during the game. Got to watch the fourth quarter at a bar in Mount Laurel next to a Steelers fan. He didn't know who I was. Don't blame him. But he was giving me the 401 on what's going on in Pittsburgh. And I was like, I kind of think Matt Canada might be a problem.

You know, like, you know. And of course I was like, I, I love Steelers fans, man. They just show up. I love the mafia guys. The whole thing, the suits are a little weird sometimes, but it fucking works. I love Steelers fans.

So I feel for you guys, the offense is disappointing to say the least. I'll just start with this because Pickett has regressed, it seems. You know, like I was on the hype train. And maybe I still think he's good. Like somebody was like, you really think Pickett's good? I was like, yeah, I do. He came on the pod.

like I think he's good. I think you guys good. I think he's got like, and I don't want to throw the word good around. He's good enough to start in the NFL. You don't like the word average though. I don't like the word, but nobody who's good enough to start in the NFL quarterback

for like a period of time is average. Not even in a sense of like if you, even if you're 15, if you're like 27, 25 on the reg, relatively speaking you're kind of bad it's like when people talk shit about basketball players never call an NBA player a bad player like everybody has a ball in a hoop around the world it's not like football and quarterbacks everybody wants to be a quarterback so all i'm saying is can he picket i don't think he's trash now he played bad last night he stared down that first

pick. You know, I don't want to over, over simplify the run game, but it felt like there were a lot of bodies in there early in that game. And Najee Harris, people are pissed at him. You know, people like Warren. Warren's kind of the guy that's come on like late last year and people, you know, there's probably a faction that's anti-nazzi and like, hey, give this guy more touches. But, you know, it's hard being the number one. And, um, I, I also think this offense, the scheme, while I can't explain exactly why, it's like, it's gross right now.

There are a lot of things I would do differently. I've been hyped about Darnell, Washington. Whereas the 12 personnel stuff. You know, we were talking about this earlier, me and Nolan, would you rather have Alan Robinson out there or Darnell? Like, who's gonna help you do the things you wanna do more? Where are you more?

Where are you more of an outlier? Because like, it doesn't scare me having Allen out there at this stage in his career. Darnel's this guy who like, you know, there's an unknown upside. I'd like to see him play. And of course, listen, I'm spending a lot of time on a lot of other stuff. I glossed over the Kenny thing. It's just because he played bad. Like, what he played bad.

You know, I don't know what he's looking at sometimes. The receivers. you know sit down in zone like find a find a void seems like they're just continuing to run the route so um i don't know i'm sure steelers fans are like i'm with you i have no idea because the the roster fuck dude you get that that ball to george pickens more easy schemed up stuff for that fucking guy right there like he should be like i'd be up right now if i were at canada how can i get this guy the ball don't make why make your job harder than it is it's already hard protection was decent wasn't like terrible pick it was bad but the run game you know nausey needs like momentum

you know i think he's a guy that needs to get downhill take big strides you know when he stops it's hard for him to get started again. So number one, there has to be space in there. Passing games got to open that up. And the scheme, you know, like, let's get on the same page up front, the whole thing. Let's. I'm just saying because I got the overwin total.

So Steelers' offense, they got work to do. And I just want to say this, because I'm not going to spend a ton of time on the Brown's defense. the fucking backends playing really well ward's good like he's sticky man guy like he he's just hard hitting del pits played well two weeks in a row rodney had a pick did he did he not he dropped he dropped it they can he gifted him one though he gifted him one yeah close uh so you know like schwartz has got those guys playing and shelby harris look good that's our guy we love shelby harris

they're going to be competitive because of that defense and that brings me to the point of like, you know, everything's changed for them with Nick Chubb out. And I'm watching that thing last night and when they say, and we're not going to show you this play, you know it's as bad as it can be. And I don't know if it's a new thing in today's world

where you're like, why do fans have to see it? It's like the people getting cut. Like, why do we have this, this, we're not entitled to it we're not entitled to it it's gore it's kind of gore you know like absolutely but i also think with the way everything went down last night i had to look at it a bunch because people were throwing the word dirty around with minka and not just throwing around like they seem to have a point like because when i first saw it in slow motion and that's the way things go in slow motion you're like oh my god dude you you're going for it huh you're

You're just going for it. You just head down torpedoing into this guy's knee. You see the guy on his back. At first, I was like, he's probably, I mean, like people say he has a history, right? Okay, I can't speak to every situation that Steelers, fans or Browns fans have seen or not seen. It's a division robbery.

I'm sure you guys remember every play. But taking that play in a vacuum, I decide to sleep on it to make the determination, make the determination as if it's important what I think. And I woke up and watched the all 22. And I'm frame by frame trying to figure out where he's lowering his head. Because I feel like in real time, it felt like he was being held up for seconds. But in actuality, this thing is bang, bang. And I know some of you are gasping at home because you think it was dirty and you think like I'm Mr. Good Guy and I am. I don't want anybody get hurt. I wouldn't a dirty player. I had an

edge to me, but I never played dirty except the guy that I punched in the nuts in high school because they were high-lowering me, which was compared to the act of going low on Nick Chubb. And I'll just say this. It's not a, it's not a clean comparison. I saw Ryan Clark getting into it with Nate Burleson. And Ryan Clark's the host of the show. So I come in this morning and I'm kind of like, like, I kind of disagree with Ryan Clark. Not that it's the end of the world. Like, we're not talking politics here. We're talking about two guys running 17 miles an hour crashing into each other in a pile of bodies.

So if you have a different take than me, hey, we disagree. But when you throw the word dirty around, it has to be malicious. Okay. You can say it's a, it's a bad tackle. It's lazy or it's cowardly, whatever you want to say. somebody would say you can't hit him up high. You got to take these guys low. And I'd say, well, that's pretty valid.

But I got to the All-22, and I'm watching. And his head's coming down about the time just a millisecond after the backer comes off on Chubb. Not to mention, I also went through the All-22 and looked at, hey, did this happen at all in any other situations? Not to mention it's low-red and points are on, you know, like in a low-scoring game, it's like, hey, it's, Killer be killed down there. 23, because he, for the Steelers, I mean, like, you can, you can pull up the play. I'm not snitching because, again, this is a football play.

Some guys decide to do it. He goes low a couple times in the game. I think there was a play in the fourth quarter where he was kind of like shoulder to the ground, rolling into the guy. And that's not Nick Chubb. It's like whoever was forward or something. whoever's backing up Nick Chubb. So it is terrifying to have that running back coming your way.

And like, your livelihood is getting that guy on the ground. And at first I thought it was dirty when I saw in real time because I didn't play that position. And I also don't pay attention to every time a guy tackles a guy low. Is somebody draped on them? Is somebody not draped on them? Because most times guys don't get hurt. The difference between that play and somebody holding a guy up in high low

a guy you know i punched a guy nuts over that because it's it's fucking malicious like there's not it's not only outlawed now but back in the day it was used as the technique to get after people my dad used to get high load because he was so fucking good and these guys you know these two hundred and ninety-pound guys are just getting thrown around like he mans out there like they're tired of howie long humping them by and they're fucking they're just diving at his knees and he's going over the line coach like, I want to see you in the tunnel. It's dangerous and it's different

because when a guy's being high load, he's got two rods in the ground. All the weight is coming through those two rods. They're stationary, you're stationary. There's no expectation of being high load. So in today's game, there's no comparison to that. You know confidently that unless somebody falls into your legs, which ended my season at one point,

almost it happens you're going to be fine uh when you're running back your feet are always moving they're always up and down and most times you're not as unlucky as nick chub was and you know i listen i think it's unfortunate it's a it's a bind that the nfl's in you can't hit guys up top for you to single that play out and say like minka's the dirtiest player because of that he intended on injuring him i think you i would caution you to look at more of the games on Sunday and find these situations where guys are just knifing guys' legs out because it happens all the time. And, you know, I took it a step further because I wasn't sure about giving this take because I respect Nick Chubb. He's been through it. I feel bad for him. I never want

anybody think I'm dirty or condone it. But I texted a couple guys that I respect that played in the back end in the NFL, multiple guys. Some I played with, some I played against. Guys who I without a shadow of a doubt are not dirty players and they were like no I saw all that stuff today you know like he's not thinking about the linebacker he's not thinking about anything but getting this dude on the ground and slow motion doesn't help and Monday night football doesn't help because Monday night football and I'm not comparing the actions but in this very same matchup Miles Garrett hit a guy with a helmet a couple years ago.

And I remember it like it was yesterday because I just asked him to be the head of my waterboys charity. And he's a great guy, made a terrible mistake, in my opinion. And you'd have thought that Monday that he was Hitler, like that no one had ever struck somebody with a helmet in a football fight before. I think it's happened since.

There were guys that covered the NFL for 30 years who are tweeting about I've never seen anything like this in my life. I have seen another man on maybe more than one occasion strike other men with helmets in football fights. It is supposed to be a no-no, but it happens. The line gets blurred. It's the most violent sport in America. And we know it's dangerous.

We know it's dangerous for the RBs. This is why we know it's dangerous. And it sucks. I feel terrible for Nick Chubb. I don't want anybody get twisted. I don't condone dirty shit but athletically it is really hard to make that split second decision that oh here's my opportunity to cut his legs out

there's a guy on his shoulder a mill a millisecond before I get here I just I can't call the man dirty I just can't do it so if that makes me a bad guy I don't know but I'm definitely not tweeting that because people on there are fucking crazy but you at home you can hear my voice you can hear my tone I've carefully come to this conclusion. And if anything, I don't know shit

because I never played the position. But as a fan, with the access I had to the people I have, with the access to pristine all 22 footage, a button that can scrub, a button that can go slow-mo, I feel like it's a bang-bang play, and it's really hard. I bet he feels terrible. You know, I don't know if they've called each other. I always wonder after situations like that,

but you can say you don't like it. don't like it sometimes you know when guys like i want my corners to fucking face somebody up sometimes and my safeties to face people up but it's nick chub it's the fucking four-yard line i can't demonize the guy okay i had to get that off my chest my chest now damn patrick was like hey i want to see that you know like hey uh it's like now i don't know where he was going with that that like hey you know it's your obligation to show it and that sort of thing and somebody in the comments of just APA football was like, somebody in the comments was like, kids don't deserve to see that. I'm like, well, your kids should be in bed.

Bad stuff happens later, a night on the football field if you haven't noticed, especially on Monday night football. But that's the thing. When something happens on Monday night football, you think it's the only time it ever happened. You're so caught in the moment. Anyways, Steelers defense for me was the story of the game. The D-line hung in there and like, they're kind of down, right?

Cam Hayward's down, right? Eight weeks with a groin. you're playing this big fucking O line that just ran rough shot through their opponent last week in the Bengals. Who's a solid defense? Like the Bengals,

you respect that unit. And they played 23 plays in the first quarter. And you want to talk about a Kyle called it a Ty Condorova game because he Googled like this battle where I had no nothing about it. But evidently he said our backs were against the wall and we fucking prevailed. And so he gave that award to somebody.

in America's teams. And in the comments under the pod, like one of our comments was like, Kyle has no idea what happened to Taekonda Roe. Just so you know, and I was like, you know, that's fine. I don't think he was intending to give you a history lesson. I just think he's funny. But this was a Taekonda Roker game for the Steelers. You want to talk about this? Why, I bet them. You know, it's fucking, by the way, I hope you bet that Panther Steelers teaser I gave out. The Steelers had their backs against the wall. I mean, they got embarrassed last. week this was a huge gut check like huge I can't tell you how what a dark place they went to this week I've been there fucking all that build up this season you go out and you just get

blank and it's emasculating and coaches are yelling at you people's assholes are tight and they went out there a man down one of their best guys in the run game and hung in there now they get the ball run at times all over them but You know, Benton's small compared to some guys. He's more of a one-gap guy. They got a guy on the nose number 57. I don't mean to be disrespectful. I don't know his name.

He, he's not a huge guy. Like, these guys are outmanned in there against Cleveland's O-line. And in the pass rush, they did enough to stay alive. In the run game, they did enough to create some negative plays. Some of it was ugly. Some of it guys are getting double-teamed out of their game. gap but they're popping back in and making plays and the big story obviously is the edge guys the fucking edge guys for the stealers stood really tall and i mean like tj played a really good game

i thought high smith played the superior game and people were mad about miles garrett's pff grade okay because he had the highest grade out of all three of me had like one tackle i don't know how they're grading them but sometimes i think they get it right because miles garrett watch his tape. If he's not killing somebody with the ball, it's because there's five guys on him. The ball's out quick or it went the other way. That's it. Like, he

had a rush. He's like, you know, the Hummer commercial that LeBron had with H2 that kind of turns like a crab. He's like the H2 that can move sideways at the top of the rush. There's no sense in this guy being so fucking big and being able to get his shin angle so low

at the top of the rush. He dug his clean in on that little yellow twinkle and I don't even know what that is. Is that like, what is that? It stands for like some sort of thing you mind. Is it steel? It's a steel thing. The yellow, that's my favorite one.

He dug in on that yellow motherfucker, all 285 pounds of him, sideways, running full speed, and, you know, Pickett got the ball off, pitched it off, but plays like that, I'm just like, oh my God.

And I just got done watching Steelers fucking film on all 22. I'm like, this is the most wow thing I've seen all night. Like, it's a really good player i love him i fucking dm with his dad on twitter i love the guy i want to get high smith on the but miles garrett's a mutant and i thought high smith played his ass off man i thought he looks really good he played the read i played like a read option really well he had to pick six obviously which i think was tipped by the right end the tj watsack that's the high low concept

you know that's high smith going low taking the inside movement which was there for him a lot. He landed some great spin moves on wills. And flushing somebody so that TJ can get a sack at nine yards. So he created a sack there. He created a sack later in the game. Or maybe it was, you know, one yard gain on a scramble. 37 comes down,

knocks Deshawn down with the game. On the line kind of late in the game on a third down. That's Highsmith. I mean, with the game on the line, he's fucking, he's got, he's got wills on skates. And so I just thought he played such a great game. He's worth mentioning. Ogan Joby played really well.

And Ogun Joby had to step up, right? And it was scrappy inside. But the two dogs outside have to set that edge like a motherfucker. Everything has to, you got to constrict everything. When you're missing your dude inside, you got to be, you got to do your job and some. And I thought they did that. And I thought like 23 plays in the first quarter against that offensive line. what a gut check win for the Steelers.

The defense hats off to him. And so the question is with the AFC North, how does the outlook change? I think it does change. I think it totally changes that. And I'm not being like hyperbolic here, but I do think we've had this whole running back conversation, their value, the whole thing. Nick Chubbs in that weird sweet spot where you are really the team's destiny. Like you're inextricably tied to where the Browns go.

Of all the guys that could get hurt, Sequin just got hurt. They're going to play Thursday night in, in Sanctuary. Francisco the only shot they had to win that game be competitive was with say one on the field after short week and that is an all-day sucker for them okay diners fucking macafer didn't get touch for a couple yards it was five and a half of carry so they played a physical game that was really hard hard fought competitive they had a big 21 point comeback they got to go San Francisco without say one that's a big deal but the difference is they're not talking about winning the division that team's not going to win the

division. Okay. The Browns are supposed to be Super Bowl contenders. I picked them to finish fourth. I didn't know Nick Chubb was going to get hurt. I just don't believe in Deshaun like that. But if they're going to do it, it's got to be a defense now. And there's, hey, the kid broke off a big run wants a great job and the O line can make anybody look good. But I do think Nick Chub is such a plus out of all the running backs that could have gotten hurt, the one that seismically shifts the situation is Nick Chubb. You know, like if Josh Jacobs got hurt, you know, if any of these guys arguing over

their deals got hurt, it'd be terrible. You'd feel bad, but the team's going to go on because Raiders don't have aspirations, the whole thing, the Browns, the situation changes. And I don't know, the Baltimore Ravens, they look pretty good to me right now. They can't afford to lose a bunch more guys.

Vegas agrees with you. Ravens are now minus 110 to win the division. Thank you, Lord, because I felt like a weirdo making that pick. and you know like we'll forget about the charges pick you forget about that i don't know chris was coming back didn't know didn't know fucking erin rogers we're gonna get hurt you know the panthers okay like i'm not gonna spend any time on this game and not because i don't respect the panthers or frank riker or the fans i grew up a panthers fan i love y'all even though you

threw zimas at me when i got ejected um and i wasn't arguing with steve smith i was i would never he's one of my favorite players i was actually joking with steve smith um about the fight and uh you guys you guys are in for it man because the offensive line is in shambles it's just like i don't understand it i thought motin was a good player when i played him i was old as shit but when i played him in philly i was like oh he's pretty good now they had like cam newton and it's hard to get them into situations where you're just like uh teeing off even though i've watched like connor barwin sack him four times on Monday. I don't know what the game plan was there, but can we get that one? That's a guy who can sneak the ball, Cam Newton. Well, yeah, and that's, and that's what I want to talk about

a second, but like, this film was ugly. I turned it on, and it's like the first play, he's getting flatbacked. These guys are winning left and right to tackles. Aquana, who's a high pick, Moten, who, you know, I thought was pretty good at one point. These guys look lost at times. And I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but whoever's coaching the unit is probably feeling pretty, like I think he's puckered up right now yeah I mean that you could ruin the guy's career this way like I'm not being dramatic I've seen it happen

Sam Bradford was the offensive rookie of the year that motherfucker could he could have been really good he got hit so much I remember watching him like limp into the locker room and argue with the trainers that he he wanted to play and he was just his ankle his high ankle, his fucking everything, shoulder, the whole thing,

because he was getting dented. And when you draft a quarterback this high, especially a little guy that could drown in a rainstorm, I, like, I worry about situations like this. And he looked calm and poised in preseason, but it's a whole different ball game

than the regular season because the heat gets turned up, you're playing the good rushers, you're playing the ones, the speed of the game increases, and the offensive line. not giving him a fucking shot so i can't even evaluate this kid like i can't tell you can he play bad i can't tell you anything about bryce bryce young i can't you want me to say he's he's not going to be any good i have no idea and i'm not i reserve the right to judge the kid until you give him a shot

i mean you got to worry about this guy being shell shocked the biggest news coming out of today with the panthers by the way granderson played a real really good game. The rushers, I said they had to win one-on-ones, not just generate pressure. They had a different approach, and I thought they won their one-on-ones. You know, not that they didn't win rushes against the Titans, but they really took advantage of the matchups. I think Grandison's a Wyoming guy. You know, he doesn't get tired. So the Panthers, man, this is the funniest headline I've read all week. It was like, update, Dov, climbing, update, which is my favorite thing. Just an update, but the Panthers.

actors can't use the QB sneak. Too short. Like on it, like that was everybody's reaction, right? Like they're worried about Bryce. I would not sneak him because he's getting killed in the pocket. I want to give him a down off. But like, that's kind of ridiculous. I think a lot of people see the height as the problem. And, you know, like maybe it's not just the sneak that they can't do. Like maybe the team, if they ever want to go to Bush Gardens, can't get in because of, he's not, he's not just limiting them in the sneak. game you know like can't retrieve things from top shelf i was looking up all these things that that short people can't do and i really empathize with short kings i actually have a couple ads written up for makins pod this week admin i have a whole ad campaign targeting you know not targeting but trying to rebrand being a short king you know like the way they're doing

bring notice this year they're rebrand in jesus bring notice bring awareness to it's like the rainforest hey i don't know if you guys have seen this fuck I don't know if you notice, but Short Kings just get shit on and they're awesome. So that's what I'm going to bring. They can't get the Woodford from the top shelf. They can't get the Woodford from the top shelf, the whole thing. But anyways, these people are picking on Bryce Young and they're saying, I don't know if it's true or not. They're taking this play off the board because he's too little.

And it doesn't make any sense. When I tell you, I did a deep dive on the QB sneak, I spent 20 minutes on it. Okay. Nobody's ever spent 20 minutes on QB sneak metrics. I did it. By, yeah, by that, I mean, I googled, QB Sneak, like best guys of all time. I mean, everybody knows Tom Brady's the best guy of all time.

But there was this article on NFL.com from like 2020. And it actually had, also, by the way, short men, they receive information quicker to their brain, which seems so simple. Like, it seems like something I would make up. But this is from, this is from fatherly.com. Also short king's blood blood clot risk men under five eight is is two point six Less times high fucked that up than tall men six foot and up so like guys been the bottle here with a blood clot, but it ain't gonna be aiding

So like congratulations. I know sometimes like girls are like I don't date shorter guys, but like Yeah, I'll be standing there with the other guys on the ground with a blood clot It chances are so they're like short guys man, I don't like this, man. I empathize with you guys, man. I'm hoping this is just like counter-op. So next week or in a few weeks when they need to run a sneak, they just don't expect it.

Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I mean, no, I don't think they're running them on a sneak. I think the guy's beat up. I'm worried about him. But like, I looked at this chart, and it was super interesting. It was a cumulative EPA from quarterback sneaks, 2001 to present.

You guys got any guesses here? Brady. Brady, obviously, number one. You should know number two, though. Once you say it, you're like, oh, yeah. I have seen that little motherfucker jumping over the line. Drew Breeze?

Drew Breeze. Drew Breeze. Drew Breeze, six feet tall. If that. If that. And he perfected the, like, jump over the line and pull the ball back, right? He'll get the first down or the touchdown,

whatever, and then pull it back, so he ensures there's no turnover. Which is why I think this is rubbish. I don't think it's true. I think they're worried about getting beat up and I think it has everything to do with the guard play and the center play and the offensive line and who's fucking up right now?

The offensive line's fucking up. They can't even run QB Sneaks and this short king is getting slandered because people haven't thought it out and googled the shit for 20 minutes. I know everything there is to know about QB Sneaks. You want to know the rest of the top five? It goes Brady, Breeze,

Flacco, David Garard, Cam Newton, McNabb, Carson Wentz. Okay, team is in short, short yard is a lot. Maybe the Jets can do better on first or second down. Carson Wentz is your answer. Okay, but here's the thing with Tom Brady. Who did he have playing inside?

I know some people are like, guys, you just knows how to do the sneak. Knows how to do the sneak. I know there's a skill because I texted a couple of my QB buddies and I was like, is it a skill? And they were like, yeah, it's definitely a skill. But more than anything is about the old line. Dan Copen, Logan Mancans, these motherfuckers, dude. these these slack-jawed fucking enforcers dude these plus-sized hockey guys that's what you need in a scrum

and so if the guys up front aren't being dogs if they can't move people you can't run that i just think it's a funny fucking update from tough climate and so here we are talking about it on uh Tuesday night and also by the way interestingly on the EPA versus attempts chart which is one axis has got EPA, one's got attempts. Really should have used Mark Bulger more in the sneak game. The guy was incredible, but they just never ran Mark Bulger. I think it was Mark Bulger. Trent Green, on the other hand, abhorrent down there with Brett Farr,

couldn't sneak. Guy couldn't sneak. And it's true in life, too. He can't, he's not sneaky. Like, you know, he's like, I'll just funnel seven mill from the welfare fund. Nobody will notice his volleyball. And then he's like a little dick pick here and there. Doesn't hurt anybody.

So he's not sneaky off the field and he couldn't QB sneak. Little did I know. But the, you know, I was thinking it was going to be like Brock Osweiler and the whole thing. It was pretty interesting. Actually, Drew Breeze was a better sneaker than Tom Brady. On that chart, he's taller than Tom Brady. So anyways, take that. Take what you will from that.

You've been educated on the QB sneak. give me too much time on my hands. All right. We have two great interviews. Victor Cruz, who I love, and Nate Collins and him are like best friends.

You think he's really cool because like you like having one friend that like you say, I know that guy. Me and him are boys, you know? Like I think Nate might have the cooler best famous friend than me.

I think so because when when Victor got on, he was like, nay, what's good? And also when OC came on a couple years ago. OC was like, nasty Nate. Nasty Nate.

Bro, and it's so funny because they were legitimately best friends. You'll hear about it in this podcast, but the night Victor Cruz became famous, they're riding the bus. Who's right next to him? Like Nate got to see. He was the second person to see the people who DM'd Victor Cruz. When the, when the pot end and Nate was sitting here, he was like,

that dude is, he goes, he goes, Victor Cruz is like a real celebrity, bro i don't know this he goes like he's like he's like high c right now and he goes and he used to be like high b and you know that's a compliment because what he's saying is like victor cruz was so famous and so good in the city where like it's so competitive it's there's so many famous people there's so many shows there's so many acts this guy was like the king of new york for a couple years bro and uh he was like a celebrity when he's dated famous people he's rubbed elbows with famous people's friends with jZ you'll hear about that so i don't even know who my best most famous friend is i got to get one that just like i'm like you know how he long okay uh anyways here's victor and then at the end of

the show uh we have a really outside the box guess for us i mean it's lacrosse but paul rable's the one guy if i'm going to have a lacrosse guy if not like gary gate you know or my brother howie long we call him dirty harry former uva standout it would be paul i mean the guy was like a player in the pll and also the mll back in the day like the leagues changed a little bit but like at some point in his career he was like yeah i want to own the league or like be you know be one of the brass and play so he's doing the like tom brady thing but if tom brady was still under center and he's one of the really great players that played the game and I played lacrosse in high school.

So it was one of those things we were like, we need to get, you know, Paul on the show because we got the PLL championship coming on. Part of my take does the water dogs thing. I know a guy on the water dogs, okay? And Paul's the man. So stick around for that at the end of the show, especially if you like lacrosse, I think it's a fun game.

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or our in-store pizza portal pickup. So on game days, order from Little Caesars, meet up with your buddies and enjoy a few slices during the tastiest hour before kickoff. Little Caesars, the official pizza sponsor of the NFL, Pizza Pizza. All right, so this is one of the most down-to-earth dudes that was ever like somebody, bro. When Vic played, he set the league on fire. He owned the league for at least a couple years and was a great player.

And then the coolest dude you'd want to meet. Of course, because you and him came in together. Yeah. Cruz and Collins. We happened just to have, no, the last names. That's how the giant. That's how they did everything. It was just alphabetical orders, no favorites or anything like that.

He ended up having lockers next to each other. And it was that journey being undrafted and kind of watching the lockers around you change every other day. And then you're just like, yo, we're still here. But you guys were, you guys hung in there. And so Vicks here. And I just wanted to welcome to the show, Vic. Welcome.

It's been far too long, dude. We've got to get you on the regular. But how you been, man? I've been good, man. No complaints. It's been dope seeing you guys from afar doing your thing, obviously, all through the social channel seeing you guys do your thing. So that's been a lot of fun. But life is good, man. No complaints. I'm just chilling. Golfing my face off every day. Having a good time.

My daughter's getting bigger by the middle of second. Nate's having more kids. So like, we're all growing, man. We're all getting old. You're making it happen. Hell yeah, dude. Are you in New York? You got some nice modern art in the background? I got something. I keep it sexy for you guys, man. I think I'm doing it in front of the art so they see what's going on. No idea who this is. No idea who this is. My designer came in and was like, this will look nice. And I was like, you know what? Those black lines will look good. Yeah, exactly.

But it's dope. It works. It's like, so where are you? Are you Manhattan or like, where do you live now? I'm in Jersey, so I'm right outside of, right outside of the city, right outside of, right right over the GW Bridge. Can't dox him. He's too famous.

Yeah, I can't tell him exactly what you're doing doxom. Is he an alpine? Not far, not far. I play that. I'll tell you what. If you played today, you signed that big deal, five for 45, you might be in Alpine. you might be in Alpine. You might be in one of those houses on those.

Because golly, man. He, I told you. He set the whole damn league on fire. And this is funny. I texted Justin Tuck this morning to be like, hey, I got Vic on today. Give me some good stories. And he was like, he goes, he's squeaky clean.

So he was looking out for you. And then 10 minutes later, he texted back. And he said, ask him why he was the only guy on the boat that had his shirt on. Oh, God. Jesus. The only blem— if there is a blemish, Ceylon,

that's the only blemish, dog, right there. Yeah, yeah. Did you have Tims on? I had Tims on. It was— Listen, we're playing in Philly for Christ's sake, and we literally drove back. You know, we took the train, I believe, back.

And we're all on the train like, yo, we're going to Miami. And I'm looking at guys, like, guys, let's just wait a couple weeks. Like, we don't have to do it. go right now. But then I'm also like, look, these kids are, they're also like locked in. Like, there was nothing I can tell them. Now I'm in the mode of like, I just got to go make sure they get back in one piece. Now I'm the dad, right? Now I'm like, all right, y'all are going

to do this. I'm going to go there with y'all, make sure everything is cool so we can get back in one piece at the very least. It's perfect. As a married guy, you've got to at least act like you're that guy in some situations. Like, I'm just there to make sure everybody's good. It's cool. Just in the corner like this. Like I'm not having any fun. Yeah, I'm not having any fun at all. So what did, were you guys shocked at how big of a deal that became? Because when somebody I was like, what do I want to ask Vic?

Somebody was like, ask him about the boat. And then Justice said, I was like, man, this intrigues me because I actually think it was no big deal. I just think it was just. No, Tim's on the boat. It wasn't about the boat. It wasn't about it. It wasn't about it. It was kind of about it.

Jeez. Jeez. The tips kind of took a life of its own after the photo came out. But yeah, I was shocked. I was shocked that like, I was shocked but not surprised. I guess I should say that. Shocked because I'm like, guys, we didn't do anything wrong. It was our off day.

We went, we had a good time. We were back in 24 hours. We didn't miss a meeting. We were late for anything. No one was in bad shape going into practices. Nothing. Like, everything flowed the same way a normal week would flow. Just a little Miami stop in the middle of that.

Just a little Miami stop. People have bi weeks all the time, dude. You're going to tell me they don't get back. I played really well off my bye weeks. It's just bad. I feel like it's down week in media. So they find something. And if you're a fan and you don't,

I feel like sometimes fans, they don't like to see us having a good time. Regardless, if you're winning or losing, sometimes in their head, they're like, you should be training right now. You should be doing push-ups. It's mathematically not possible that you have enough time to do that. You should be in the playbook.

That's what they feel like you should be doing. When it's in the season, like throughout the season, they feel like that should be everything you're doing. Because you need to be at your best to make sure their bets win. Well, yeah, it's all about the bets and fantasy. Well, here's, fantasy wasn't that big yet, or was it big when you, when you were going off? It was just climbing. It was just, it was just climbing. It was just taking off.

I don't even think draft kings was there, all these different brands, but I think it was just taken off as, like, when those years were happening, when the boat trip happened. Got it. Okay, well, another thing about the boat trip is, is like, you're the Giants, it's the New York media. And like, if you're not going to be on first take, it's still like an onslaught all week. Like, what was that like? And, you know, did you guys have people in the media that you were kind of like, I got to watch it when this guy comes in because he's going to try to divide us? Like, what's that like in New York?

Because I played in St. Louis for a years when I got to Philly and Boston, I was like, damn, dude, they really care about what we have to say here. You got to be careful. Yeah, that was a trip. You know, there was a couple reporters. You always knew not to give them anything or not to, oh, you knew they were going to ask you the tough question or the question about the topic you didn't want to discuss.

But you understood that going in. You understood the worst part was that like, you know, you could handle, at least me. Like, I'm an older guy at the time. I've been through the ups and downs with the media. I could handle it, right? Like, I just knew we got to, we have to win now, though. Like, we have to put a good showing together, win this game, and then it's all put to bed. So it didn't hit the fan for me until we lost.

And I was like, damn, they're going to ask me about this boat every, for the rest of the year, even going into next year, because this is our last game. And it's our last game. And I was going to roll over into next year. And the first question I got training camp the following year was, are you going to be a different leader this year and not go to Miami? I'm like, guys, we haven't even had a preseason game yet. So let me jump ahead to week 17, right? Are you going to be in Miami?

me, Odell was a young guy. Wasn't he a rookie at that point? Or was it first or second year or something like that? I think it might have been his second year. I think it was the second year. And funny story was that when we flew to Miami, we went right from Philly to train, drove to the airport, took off. He was like, man, I don't have any shoes.

Like, do you want to wear? Like, do you have anything for me to wear? You know, I was always a guy. I'm packing a couple of fids, whatever. And I was like, I only have these Tims for you. No. So those are actually my boots that he's wearing the phone of, which is even better.

It's an even better story, actually. Oh, that's great. That is crazy. There was a time when Odell didn't have clothes like that. Well, I wouldn't say that, Chris, okay? I would just say that at the time, given the circumstance, given the circumstance, and me being the wily veteran that I was at the time, I'm always ready. What was Odell like as a rookie and, like, you know how they talk about seeing George?

towards pickings in practice, making these circus catchers, like, just wait. Was there a time when y'all were like, just wait, you're going to see this guy from LSU and it's going to shock you? 100%. I think if anybody remembers, he came into our training camp, a little hurt. So he didn't even practice a lot. He was kind of rehabbing and kind of getting himself back together. And I remember the first practice that he had with us.

And they were easing them in, obviously taking care of him, but giving him a couple of reps. First play from scrimmings, it was like, look, we're going to send him on a deep post. and we'll see what this guy does. And they sent him on a deep post. You know, Eli airs one out. And he literally, it was back in the end zone, reached out with one hand, gripped the nose of the ball,

tucked it in, did a flip, stood up on two feet and looked into, like, the offices of the Giants building and was just nodding. Like, y'all see it, y'all see it. And I was like, I think we found our guy. Yeah. I think this is the guy.

The way he rolled. He rolled and stood up and he's looking right at the GM's office. It's like, just looking up. They're probably in there going, ah, yeah. That one. Yes. We're going to have to pay this guy. Yeah.

The other was like, we probably should let Victor go so we can free him. I've been in that situation, man. With the young guys coming along and you're like, damn, dude. But like, what's it like being, you know, former teammate of his and seeing him in Baltimore? where I feel like I really like the fit. I thought the offense looked really good yesterday. What can he do for Lamar that people might not realize? I think he just provides that explosiveness, right?

Like, I know they got Zayflowers over there as well, but he provides a level of explosiveness and a level of insurance from a receiver position that I don't think Lamar's really had up until this point. Like to line up every play and be like, okay, I got a guy that if everything goes wrong, I can trust him to throw the ball up in his, direction and he's going to make a play for me and might make it a touchdown on top of that.

So I think he provides a whole different element. I love the fit as well. And then just seeing him progress over the years, man, to, you know, now he's a vet, which is like insane to see it from the beginning all the way to this progression. He's been through the ups and downs of the league, right? He's been through the injuries coming back, switching teams. So he understands the business side of it now. So I think he's approaching the game so much differently.

And I was just happy to be someone that he could lean on. early on and really just like pick my brain about different things, especially starting off your career in New York. It's not easy, man. It's not easy. Being injured early on as a rookie coming through that, playing well, having success, and then switching teams, having the turmoil with the GMs and the front office and all of that good stuff. And then having to switch teams is just that could weigh on you as a young guy coming up. So the fact that he was able to battle through that, win himself a Super Bowl, come out the other end of that. And now he's in the second half of his career with Baltimore. I'm excited to see where it goes. What do you think about what it's like to be a giant right now?

If that game ended at halftime, I feel like you wouldn't even want to go back to New York. I mean, what's the outlook and how hard can it be when you guys are struggling? Those first six quarters of this year, man, I need to get my heart resuscitated, like, after those first six quarters, man, because it was just tough to watch. It felt like, who is this team? Like, this isn't the team that I saw last year coming off of beating. Minnesota in the playoffs and then putting up a fight and then you know having the putting up the points that they were putting up the defense being what they were last year I was like this this team

is going to take a step and the first six quarters didn't didn't say so but those last two that third and fourth quarter I think really indicated what this team is and really indicated how much how much Daniel Jones is just a baller like he might not impress you with his arm and do it the way we want him to do it and do it the way it's true. He's just a gamer dog. Like he's tough. He can use his legs. He's got weapons all over the field now to throw the ball to.

And you see a different, you see a different Daniel Jones now that he's got some guys around him now, too. You know, he's got some guys that he can depend on, Jalen Hyatt coming into the game and providing the spark. Like, we got guys all over the roster now that can play. And I think that third and fourth quarter is what's more indicative of what I think this Giants team will be. and now it's up to Coach's Dayball to kind of keep them on this level

so that they don't have these laws like they did in the first half. Is it safe to say, and this is a relevant question, if you look at Kansas City and some of these teams that have big turnover in the wide receiver room, because at the end of last year, Daniel Jones, thrown to a lot of guys we hadn't heard of. Well, now Hodgins is more of a known commodity. You mention Hyatt, you bring in Waller,

but the receiver room still needs to get better through the year. And I'm wondering how and can, a receiver room get better throughout the year. Like Rishi Rice and those guys in Kansas City, like that's going to be a work in progress. What goes into improving the connectivity between a quarterback and a wide receiver room through a year? That's a good question. I think it's communication for the most part.

I think it's understanding and communicating how you want these things done. And I think from a coaching perspective, it's delineating who are the guys. I think you're seeing chef in the game, Jalen getting his snaps, Paris Campbell in the game as well. Slatens in the game. Like, we need to define who our three wide receivers are going to be and who our fourth wide receiver is going to be when he comes into the game. And then we can operate holistically from there.

I think, you know, you're seeing different guys kind of being in and now and kind of doing different packages for different guys, which I understand because we're deep. I think there's a luxury that we haven't had for a while. But I do like roles. I think roles are important on a football team. And I think especially, you know, micro teams on, you know, position groups are micro teams.

You get in that receiver room, getting that lineback room, getting that D-line room. That's a whole other team you got in there. So I think it works and it helps when you're in those receiver rooms, delineating who the guys are, and then everyone else can relax

and kind of operate within their role. It's like who does what, who does what well, you know, what kind of routes are we going to run with this guy? Where are we going to this guy in a man-beater, short yardage situation? I feel like that's got to be harder

to shake out in today's NFL. I know the passing game, is easier to replicate in camp than the run game. But with the CBA, the way it changed, and I think I don't remember what your first year was, maybe 0-9. 2010, 10. Bro, two a days.

We were in the trenches. You got one year of it, bro. Trenches, in the trenches. That was for real. But you really run your offense a bunch, and, you know, there is more contact and that sort of thing. Is it harder in today's NFL? Did you notice your first couple years out of that CBA

to get on the same page in the passing game than it was when you had more reps. Is that a bigger challenge? It's definitely a bigger challenge because not only do you have less reps, but it was shorter. Training camp was like two weeks, and then you're into the flow of weekly games and preparation. And you're technically out of camp. You're still technically in it, you know, from a practice perspective and obviously from a team numbers-wise, but it was still very much preparation. So it's definitely a little bit more difficult.

And then now, I mean, you take an undrafted guy now to try to make a team is even harder because how are you going to get the reps? Like, I was a guy that was lucky enough to like get the, I got the reps, dog. Like there were vets that didn't, you know how it goes. Some vets don't practice often. You get bumped up the stat, you know, the stat sheet. Next thing, you know, I'm in the huddle with Eli. I'm like, okay, this is happening. This is happening.

You got to steal reps anywhere you can. Any way you can. Oh, you ain't going? Perfect. I'll take those reps. I was playing, I was playing scout offense to get reps. Correct. You were probably annoying as hell on scout offense.

Y'all, they hated him. They absolutely hated Nate on the offense, y'all. Hate him. What was he used to do? He just tried to block people. Just walling people. So, like, when he decided to be like, okay, I'm just going to wall you now. And then he's like, on offense, like, kick sliding, walling dudes and just mall and then, like, then he just maw him after that.

In the red penny. And then shout out to Osi. Osi used to put the battery in my back with Tuck, Justin Tuck. And when he knew I was going to play scout offense, he would be like, Nate, every. Oh, my God. He goes, if you pancake Tuck, he goes, I'll give you a thousand. Did you ever get a snack? And then one day, the day he told me this to it, and he goes, and every time you lock him up,

because one day, like, just joking around, I really locked Tuck up. And he wasn't trying. But like me, like, I'm always going to go hard and practice. You're always going to try. And so, yo, he was like, he was like, yo, every time you stop him, the D-line coach actually said something about it was just like, you can't get past Nate. You can't get past Nate. And O.C. was like, yo, O.C. was like, yo, if you do it again, Nate, he goes, he goes, every time you block him, he's like, I'll give you a hundred. He's like, if you pancake him, I'll give you a thousand.

And, yo, the next practice, Tuck destroyed. Yeah. Yeah. Tuck was like, let me stop playing. We're done that, dude. We're done that at the first practice. I'm taking a little tort all for that practice, and I'm going to fuck you up.

Tuck was done. He was done. He was done with it after that. Did that D-Line room, did that Vic and Nate, too? Did that group just run the building? Oh, they read, they had the most money. It was always money. Whoever has the bread, and we called it,

they all have the left side of the locker room. So they were like, oh, it's money roll. We walk up as money roll, guys. Keep your feet. Keep the voices down and keep your feet light when you walk through here. You better. The funniest thing about that is our other fellow rookie at the time, JPP, he had just got paid.

And he was one of those rookies. He was the rookie that if anyone said, like, just a regular rookie stuff, carry my pads. He'd be like, how much money do you make? As a rookie. As a rookie. This was free. This was pre, like, new CBA, so he was getting, he got big money back then.

Uh-huh. And he knew he was going to be good. Yeah, he knew he was going to be good. But he did he pay for the rookie dinner? Oh, yeah, they did him and Limbaugh. So I got lucky because I had the first rounder and the second rounder in my group, D-line group. And so they were like, big time blessing.

I just had to do the stuff like go pick up the food, everything like that. They got, they had to pay, which was a huge, huge, huge, huge blessing for me. Buddy, I remember. my rookie year. You know, I got picked high and I just remember getting a text from a buddy is like, you're going to have to pick up that rookie dinner and it's going to hurt. And then the rest of the draft, I'm like, draft some more defensive

guys. They didn't draft the fucking linebacker until the 6th. I was me and a couple guys who were like, I'm not making much, man. And I had to pick up like the whole damn thing. Vic was the rookie dinner bad for the wide receivers? I could figure the old NFL, old giants with those stingy old

vets. Now, you, maybe they took it easy on you, but somebody had to get hit hard. No, we were good because there was, I mean, if you think about it, we were still relatively young. Hakeem Nix was still first, second year guy. Mario Manningham was still like year three or two or something like that. Then we had Ramsey's Barden, Steve Smith. I remember Ramsey's? Look at these names, dude.

His names were crazy. Steve Smith was there, but he was only like year four or five. So he still didn't really care. And if you knew Steve Smith, he didn't really care. He didn't really do it. So I kind of got out unscathed on that one because I was, it was the DB. The DBs were trying to reel me into their dinner so I could pay. I'd be like, nope.

I'm good with my clan. Oh, hey, Vic, you want to join us? Yeah, you want to join our dinner? No, I'm good. I think I'm okay. All right. So, so, you know, you guys bring up being undrafted, both you guys undrafted, came in together. It's really cool.

I got the young whales stuff on right now, vintage gear. You didn't think I still have one. I got one, bro. It's in good shape, too. It's in great shape. Dude, it could go for 300 on the street right now. But I'm not letting it go. Okay, so you guys are both undrafted.

Remember, you guys had Hard Knocks. And Hard Knocks is different. No, we didn't have Hard Knock. No, you were playing against somebody. Jets had it again. The Trots again. Correct. So Vic goes off on Hard Knocks, and obviously people aren't like watching every preseason game,

but it is New York football. It's Jets, Giants. Oh, no. But it was the opening of Memphis. life. Okay, so it's a big deal. Huge. So my, you picked a good time to go off. And my question would be, uh,

how were the DMs after the game? And like, just being a superstar in New York, was there like a flood? Like there were a lot of them Saturday night. And then when Hard Knocks came out, was it like, yo, dude, I can't even get through these things. Yeah, it was a, it was a lot. I remember showing Nate.

We're on the bus. Obviously, we're obviously very sad and upset that right after that game, all the rookies. We had to go back to Schenectady, New York. Tell me about that real quick. After we're all on the high, we're all in the locker room. We just won the first game in MetLife against the jets. And they were whispered ceiling.

They're like, oh, they might let us stay. They're letting us stay. Oh, that's the word. We're like, Coach is going to let us stay. And when they said, yo, you guys get to stay here. You guys just need to be back in whatever, blah, blah. Everyone's like, yeah. And then they were like, rookies on the bus.

We were sick. We were sick. I was like, no. And you had to go to curfew, too. Bro, there's nothing to do. There's not, no, we were in dorms. There was, there was 13, there was like 20 rookies back at the dorms.

No one else is there, which is me and my phone. I'm cycling through Twitter responses, and I'm hitting up my family on text messages because Instagram wasn't really a thing yet, to be honest. So it was Twitter was live and flooding, and my text messages were going crazy and I'm in Schenectady, New York, staring at the walls.

Yeah. His text, I mean, his text and Twitter were going him. Me and Victor before this game, this is no lie. I have the same Twitter that still has no motion. You guys had the same.

Me and Victor at the time, I think I had like 500 to 1,000 more followers than Victor. The facts. And we used to go back and forth laughing And after that game, LeBron James tweeted during the game, who is this team Vic got? It actually added him. He didn't even like, he didn't like like him.

He looked him up, found his, his handle added him. And I think, I think Vic had like, he got like 80,000 followers or something from that. Oh, dude. Blown away. Through the rule. Long away. It was on the way. How about LeBron tweet that you?

I mean, like, when LeBron chooses you on a Sunday. It's like the other night he chose, he chose the kid for Colorado State. It's not a good LeBron tweet to have happened about you. Yeah, but, but, you know, when LeBron tweets about it, you made it. No, for sure. We were on that bus ride home. Going nuts. He was like, yo, Nate, Nate, look.

I was like, what? He was like, LeBron tweeted this. And I was like, yo, no way. I remember just literally like, I'm over the back of the bus chair looking at Nate just going through tweets. And I'm showing Nate, like, Nate, like, showing him every five minute. Every time I refresh, there's like 40 more posts, more retweets. And I'm just like, yo, this is, I can't even relax. I don't even know what to do right now.

Well, that's the thing. You play in New York. You never know who's watching you. I remember I used to ball out against New Orleans and be like, I wonder if Little Wayne's watching. There's a dog cussing me. I love that, you know? But, like, nobody's there. He's not going to tweet at you.

You play in New York and you ball out. Like, were people just, were you meeting people left and right that you were like, damn, this is incredible. I'm like I'm famous. You're not thinking that way, but like the celebrities, man. Like who's the coolest person that in person came up and was like, yeah, I love your game? Oh my God. I mean, the biggest thing. I mean, Jay Z for one of them, for starters and like being able to like, and then later signing to like his sports agency and then sitting in a room with him and my only question in the entire meeting, they have like four people speak, he spoke. And I go like, why me? Like of all the athletes you could choose in New York City or in the world,

why me, for starters, like, why, why am I the decision? And he goes, well, up until this point, you've done everything that I would do if I were in your shoes. And I was like, holy shit. I was like, okay. Wow. Noted. Where do I sign?

You were like, ah. Immediately. And he was cool. He was cool. He was super cool. He's just a fan. Like, they have sports center burned into their TVs and their offices. They don't watch anything else.

They're just tapped into the game. and when he obviously started to see me rise. The good thing about Jay, right, is that, like, he's still connected to the streets, too. So as good as I was doing on the field, he wanted to know what I was like, like, when I was outside in New York City, moving around, when I'm meeting different people that know him,

that I may not know, know him. Right. And he's asking around, he was like, yo, Vicks, you know, everything he got back was like, Vicks is a good dude and a humble cat and a good dude to align with. Man, that's so cool. That's so cool.

Jay came to St. Louis, one time for a game. The only person that could bring him to the Edward Jones Dome was Todd Gurley. And he was in our locker room after the game. And people were like, what the fuck? Like, why? We got this picture with him, 40 shirtless dudes mugging up with Jay Z. Jay's like, what the fuck am I doing here?

Where's Todd Gurley? So, yeah, we cross, we cross pass. Talking about, you know, New York football, another thing, you know, the Jets in a situation right now, like they're in, with Zach. Wilson like there was the the back and forth last year with some hey looks showing up the quarterback a little bit when it was the quarterback who's fucking it up but like you know the receiver code of like no hands up no palms up no showing your guy up there was some stuff like that last year I thought garr wilson's done a great job all things considered of being classy as fuck because his career is in

this guy's hands and he's not throwing him the ball I mean he is but who knows where it is and I'm wondering if you ever had issues or instances where you had to navigate tension socially between a quarterback and the receivers, I figure not because of Eli, but how does that go in that room socially? How bad can it be when the connection's not there? Yeah, it could get really bad. And it's, you know, and it's up to the leadership group in those rooms to kind of continue to write the ship and keep it on track because it can go left quick. And like you said, there's like, These are livelihoods, man. These are like people who got mouths to feed.

People need to perform well on this football field so that they can provide for their families. And the quarterback has the wide receiver's jobs in his hands, essentially. Like, if you don't throw me the ball, I'm not going to produce. I'm not going to get paid. It's as simple as that. So, and I think that's what Gary Wilson is thinking. That's what he's about, you know what I mean?

And he wants to win now. He sees his window, everybody's window in the NFL is small. Like, he wants to win now while he's got the team. He sees the team that's around him. And he's like, we got the talent to do it. We're just a quarterback away. And it's a tough position to be in, but it's about that leadership group to keep everybody's heads on straight. And the quarterback has to find ways to play better.

And it's up to the coaching staff, too, you know. Yeah, no question. You know, another kind of guy who was going through in Tony, Cadarius Tony in Kansas City, and he start the season off three drops in the big ballgame that everybody's watching. And I think he's the guy that actually gives them a differentiating factor outside. he you know he's he's sloppy right now he put the ball on the ground yesterday he's obviously going through it a little bit he deleted his twitter the sauce gardener joined him a week later but you know like obviously the guy's going through it how mental can that be when you drop a couple

uh is it like a baseball player in a slump is it just like how do you because i always figure when you guys make these tough catches for somebody who doesn't catch the football i'm like are these automatic catches i don't know how they're catching these fucking balls and you know i understand like dropping balls. But for a receiver, it's your livelihood. What is that like when it happens? It's tough. I've been there. I've had three drops against the Cowboys Week 1. I've been there. Like, I've had those ups and downs and I've had those moments where you're like, man, and in New York City where like people are going to rip you apart to shreds, you know? So for me, it was just like, all right, let's get back to the drawing board. Let's get on this jug machine. Let's work extra.

Let's work harder. Let's focus a little bit more. Focus a little bit differently. Try different drills. do different things to get myself prepared. Like, you're a professional. Do everything you did to get yourself to this point. You know what I'm saying? Like, it wasn't just, you didn't just roll over and become a pro. You had to work at it. You had to perfect your craft.

And I remember just, I just couldn't wait for the next week. I cannot wait for the next week because I knew I wanted to put my best foot forward. I knew I was going to be prepared. And I remember the next week was Tampa Bay. And Hakeem had 212, and I had 189 and two tuttees. And Hakeem had a tuttee. Like, we went crazy. Granted, that's because, I mean, Eli, do three picks, but that's neither here nor there.

We had to fight from behind on that. We had to fight from behind that day, but I used to also love those games where we had to fight. Because I knew what you know we're going to throw the ball. You know Eli's going to, you know, find you. He's got to drop back and get you the rock. So I used to love those come from behind days. It's funny because it's kind of similar. D-Liaming and Y receivers, we kind of hope for the same thing in games.

Because when they're doing that, that means we can. get the rush. Yeah. That means we just get the rush. And they get like the Houston situation yesterday. Stroud throws for 380. I know he played well, but it's just like a lot of, a lot of, you know, garbage time, as they call it.

But, yeah, can a guy become a pro? Because you seem like you were a pro from the beginning, right? That's ingrained in you. You have your work habits. I'm not saying Tony's not a pro. But, you know, his track record is one that's like mixed bag on kind of getting along and that sort of thing. Have you played with guys that you were like, They were just train wrecks as rookies and then they learned how to be a pro?

I think, well, not necessarily a train wreck, but Odell was some of that. You know what I mean? He had himself a little bit more put together, I would say. But he definitely had his fair share of ups and downs that we kind of had to write the ship in the locker room. And just have conversations. It wasn't nothing more than just having a combo and letting him know what he's worth not only to this team and this organization, but to himself. and what that means to him and how he wants to be portrayed moving forward

and like screw the media man screw who's talking screw who's gonna ask you these questions worry about you worry about how your family perceives you worry about how your teammates and your family here within the building perceive you like that's what's important that's what's going to carry you through

and I think those conversation helped him immensely and I think Carderius Tony's one of those guys that you know heard some rumblings when he was with the Giants obviously for that cup of coffee when he was saying different things behaving a certain way, responding to certain things from the coaching staff a certain way where it's like, you've got to kind of earn that a little bit. You've got to kind of earn the right to say those things a little bit. You can't come in out the gate and because you're a high pick or there's

somebody that they've invested some money into you just can say and do whatever you feel. You've got to earn that. You've got to earn that on the football field. You've got to earn that with your teammates in the locker room. And then once you start to put some production up and you start to show us that you're all in on this thing, then you can have a little bit more say. And I think that's where he just needs to grow up a little bit. It just made me think about Kenny Goladay, and I'm just hoping he's doing good. I have no idea what's going on with him,

but I felt for him last year. I mean, I was just thinking about that, I was thinking about that wide receiver room and just Tony to be so talented, but to be cut loose and not used, like that really spoke to how dysfunctional maybe it was. And I actually listened to his music. I like Young Joker.

Oh, yeah? Yeah, I think he's all right. You know what, man. You know what, man. Young Joker. Is that his rap name? Yeah, Yeah, go check it out.

It's on Spotify, bro. He's not on Twitter, but he is on Spotify. I'll give him a stream. And he's on Instagram, too. I'll go give him a stream. Give him a stream, bro. It's not that he could use it. He's got a lot of stream.

Okay, you have single digits, man, because a lot of guys are going the single digit route. You were number three, I guess, in preseason. Yeah, what happened with that? And do you think the guys look good in single digits now? Well, I think they look good. You know, the swag in me loves it, right? Like, I'm like single digits all day.

But then, like, the fan of me is like, who's that? Is that Daniel Jones? I don't know what that is. Like, you can't figure out who some of these guys are now because they change their numbers and things like that. But I'm actually just jealous, to be honest, man. If I got to rock the number three, like, on the field. Three looks good.

Three looks so clean. Is Chef wears three? Chef wears three. And he looks so. clean. Are you just, like, kind of mad at him when you see him? When you see chef, or you're like, because, you know, me and chef kind of had the same body type. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like, I like I'm looking at him and I'm like, that would, that's what I would look like in my jersey. Like, you know, the worst part, the worst part. That's how I feel about Brian Burns and zero. It's

we, we look the same out there. No, the 80s story is, it's just ridiculous. So I remember making the team, right? And I'm ecstatic. I'm coming in. I'm like, I didn't get a call. I'm coming to the next day, Vince McMahon struck. You know what I mean? Like coming through the locker room. And I'm like, oh, I can't wait to see this number three jersey with my practice. And also, Nate, you already know, we had blue high school musical lockers, like in the middle of the joint.

And now you made the team, you get the real locker. You get the real locker. We finally get our real locker. I could charge my phone. My phone. Oh, God. I can charge my phone. Oh, my God.

I can charge my phone now, man. It was a game changer. So I get to my locker and I look up and I see 80. And I'm like, what the fuck is that? So I'm like, you know what? I'm undrafted, guys. I can't choose. I'm just putting this jersey on.

And I never forget walking out. And OSI was like 80. Osi's like 80. I guess you're going to have to make it work. And I was like, I guess I will. And here we are, 80, you know, eight years later. Crazy. Osi's the reason I wore 72.

Well, I didn't have a choice because there weren't any fucking numbers left. But I was like, Osi looks cool in it. And I tried the chop clubs and everything. It just didn't work the same, you know? So for him to come at you wearing 72, about the 80 is kind of crazy. I had 75 and that, like, other than your pops,

like, I didn't know anyone. Kyle's going to take umbrage. Kyle wasn't in the league yet, though. So he can't say that. He can't say that. 75's not the worst. Remember Jaquay Parker. He played defensive end in Philly back in the day.

He might be a little older than you, but. But for inside, bro, I'm a one technique. You're right. It's a little bit. It's a little bit. It's a little bit so. See, Long, how do you feel? There's a lot of deal.

And Nate, you too, there's a lot of de-lineman out there in number zero and one. He hates it. So I did, I do hate. Well, here's what I hate. Like, knee-jerk changing your number just because you can. Like, there were certain guys last year that I was like, oh, you just did that to do it. One looks terrible. Your jersey looks huge.

You look like kind of. It's marketing. I forgot who you are. No, I get it. I get it. I know you're a big marketing guy. But my thing is, like, Brian Burns looks sweet and zero. I don't think there's a cooler looking player in the lead than D'Andre Swift right now.

He might look like the coolest motherfucker in the NFL. Okay, so when it works, it works. But then when Josh Jacobs goes out there and puts that eight on his chest, and the eight is the size of his chest because the font's all fucked up. He's rushing for negative two yards. You're like, what's going on? Maybe you change your number because you're like, it's going to be bad this year. Yeah, he bought, I think Chris doesn't,

He doesn't know it, but he low-key body shames on like when you're wearing, if you're wearing a single-digit jersey, I think it's a body-shame. I'm going to shame that outfit. This is what I want to do. Hey, my mom needs her drapes back. She called me and asked him. Don't hate it. I'm not hating, bro.

I'm not hating. I got the young whales on. This is timeless. You guys both look great. Nate is very Nate. Nate. If anyone knows Nate, Nate's been dressing like this forever. This isn't new.

Tell me. Tell me something I don't know about Nate, maybe. Take a shot. Oh, my goodness, man. You know what? Surprised me about Nate? I'll give you this one story about Nate. I remember I was, you know, we were in training camp.

We just met each other that year. We're hanging out. We're already best friends at this point hanging out every day. And I was like, you know what, Nate? I'm going to take you to meet some women down in Washington Heights. Oh, yeah. I'm going to take you down the Dykemen and just see how he responds. Brought him around.

Just put him in the deep. They love him. They embrace him with open arms. And to the point where I call, I will call you, we have days off. And I'd be like, yo, Nate, I haven't seen you in a couple of where you at? I was like, oh, I just shot over to Dykeman real quick. I'm just hanging out for a little. Hanging out.

I brought you there one time and you're already making friends hanging out. Oh, he's going to take you down there. Now, hey, Vic, I want to take you down to Washington. A funny story about that is at that time, I had just, we had just, we had. We're in camp. So I had my mother's easy pass in my car, and I was winging out going through the tolls. And my mom's like, what are you doing right now? I'm my easy pass.

She's like, how is it? She was like, you're in the NFL now. Take it all. She was like, you need to get a credit card and put it on there now because you're not going to be doing this. She's like, how are you going back from New Jersey to New York this many times? In a week. It's like 50 bucks a week, my guy was doing, I was serious. He brought you to the Heights, man.

Crazy. You brought you to the Heights. That's a fucking good one, dude. Hey, I'm not surprised, though. That's the thing. I'm not surprised at all. All right, my last question for you, Vic, and we'd love to have you back another time, too,

because it's great catching up. But, you know, when it came to, when it comes to today's receivers, I know there's, like guys that I like. at defensive end and invariably it's always like the guy that reminds you of you sometimes is like you know you like the guys that are great but I'm like yeah you know I can't relate but for you know who's who are the elite slot guys or elite guys that can catch balls in the middle of field that you're like man I really like this guy he might remind me of me and some

of the dirty work I had to do is there somebody that you identify with this in the league now There's a couple guys, and, you know, it's funny because the slot guys are kind of everything guys now. Like, Stefan Diggs 10 years ago would be a slot guy, like technically if you had the category. But he plays everywhere. He plays everywhere. He's inside. He does it all. So between Diggs, and I love a, I mean, I know he's injured this year and stuff, but Cooper Cup has always been one of my favorite guys that just watch, play the game.

He plays the receiver position just the way it's supposed to be played. You know what I mean? like gritty, strong, catches the ball out of the sky, and then just does some really great thing. And then Jemar Chase, I think Jemar Chase, another guy that can play any and everywhere, he can put him wherever you want, and he has the ability and the skill level

to run every route in the book. He can go up against linebackers and run those intermediate routes, and he could take the top off too. So I just like the guys now that are slots and can do everything, you know? What's the young guy's name from L.A.? That's going crazy.

Nenu. Oh, Pooka Nakua. That guy can play, man. He might be the next Victor Cruz, bro. I love it. 25 catches in his first two games. He's breaking records. That's crazy.

It's just amazing. When you give a guy, like, as an undrafted guy, especially coming from, like, 1-Dbill-A, we always said this. Like, give us some facilities and give us, like, a pool in our locker room or something. And you're going to see a different guy because all guys need is an opportunity. And some guys, some guys don't make the best of it. But the guys that do and appreciate it and put their ability on display, Good things usually happen from that. Well, you brought up the AA, but, like, you know, Travis Hunter and those guys coming from Jackson State,

I know it's not a clean analogy necessarily, but, you know, there's a big carryover. Good football players can, you know, can play at any level. And, you know, Shadour was like, I don't read the jersey on the, or the name on the jersey. Like, you know, I think the small school guys, there's got to be some trick to finding them. But when you find them, they're just as good as everybody else and maybe better. Because all of a sudden, hey, it's not just, hey, I was playing against maybe less talented defenses, but now I got a great quarterback, great playmakers around me, the whole thing. So I love watching Colorado.

I love what Coach Sanders is doing out there with those kids. You can tell they just love them. They appreciate them. They appreciate what he brings to them as a coach. He's fun. Like, I'm watching these highlights and clips on Instagram or without TV. I'm like, I want to go play for this guy. And you're starting to see other athletes.

Like I just saw, what was that, Etienne tweeted. He was like, maybe my little brother needs to go play with prime. And you're going to start, you're going to start seeing that more and more and more. So, but yeah, man, you give, you know, I think my head coach in high school, I'll never forget the first thing he said to me was like, if you are good, the NFL will find you. You could be anywhere in the world, the NFL is going to find you. And you will be playing on Sundays. And I was like, that's what led me to go to UMass. I mean, it was also my only scholarship.

But that was like, if I do well here, they'll find me. And they found me. They found you, bro. We found him. Victor Cruz. Cruz. Legend, dude. It's great to see you, bro.

We got to get up soon. Definitely, man. We got to come up for a game and check in on you. Yeah, it was definitely good talking to. Appreciate you taking the time, man. Thank you. Always a pleasure, my brothers. And I'm not going to lie.

I got to get you on my facts and the king. My facts and the king show too. Yeah. See, you didn't realize that we're going to double book you now. It's a fucking trap. Try. All good. Just let me know, Nate, so I could bring the matching floor shirt, too,

so we can catch the same page. We can coordinate next time. I got you. And I hit you with the Spider-Man point on the screen. Yo, Cruz. Good to see you, man. Thank you. Absolute pleasure, guys.

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You know, here's the reason I can't judge the guy from Colorado State to the point where he deserves death threats. When we played Trinity Episcopal in 2000, 2003, maybe 2002. I played lacrosse. I came out for the team. Didn't know my elbow from my ass. They gave me a long pole.

And they were like, don't worry about picking the ball up. Just whack people with it. You can't pick it up over your head and whack people with it. But like, we're going to put you on like the X, which is like the really shifty guy behind the thing and just trying to lock him down

because I was an athlete in the whole thing. So I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. The only time I ever picked the ball up, I saw one of my cool, you know, fish friend. like fish fan lacrosse friends who had like a hacky sack he picked up the ball and ran down the sideline like he was scooping an ag or something and he didn't even cradle it he held out in front of him i'll never forget all 200 people in the stands were like oh the girls were going

nuts and i was like if i ever get the ball i'm going to do that because i can't cradle we're playing trinity motherfuckers coming down the sideline and uh i just deck him like he doesn't even have the ball like I don't know what I was thinking it was like I malfunctioned in the moment and just hit the guy without the ball I guess maybe lost the ball or the ball went over his head but I just were like oh I was like the guy it was the right sideline too and I I wasn't trying to be dirt dirty like now when we went up to play the maryland teams like Landon and boys Latin and all those fucking short kings kicking our ass there were a bunch of good looking short kings out there with all this these money in

their bank accounts they got 401k's already there are up there on these beautiful sprawling campuses, and they're just kicking our asses in front of all the hot prep school girls. And why are their prep school girls there? I don't know. It's a all boys school, but the girls are getting in their nice cars to drive over and watch them kick our asses.

They're beating us like 176. It's emasculating. I just wanna hurt them. Now, not in like a dirty way, but in like, I just wanna run in a hard and see what happens. So I got me a hickory stick. Some of the sticks are titanium, but some are, as, you know, the Iroquois intended the situation.

They heard a lot more when they hit you. Yeah. So I got one of those. And it actually broke on one of the landing guys. Okay. So I'm just saying, I'm judging the guy from Colorado State. But what if I got some death threats? I think it was like 19.

I got held back in high school. I could be that kid's age. He's a kid. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. Maybe he got caught in the moment. It was dirty. but this is an opportunity to bring it up because we got Paul Rabel

and I'm going to tell a lot of lacrosse stories okay fucking we had a huge defense man huge D huge D huge D 240 250 250 235 man

those boys Latin guys finger fucking their girlfriend's oh I just I just beat a bunch of meanderthals today I didn't know what they were doing they were just they're up there like you see me rip that that heater from behind the axe like it's just and i'm sure somebody from land and prep is listening no disrespect bro but that wasn't my sport all right and so with that

you know this is presented by cash app uh the good folks at cash app are the they got their name on the pll championship coming up you can bet this game take the over a little spoiler you know a little easter egg there from the rable interview which is coming up in a second but yeah like cash up when they signed me they were like yeah man be yourself and i was like can i do segments about you know preppy guys in baltimore finger blasting kicks talking lax before i talk about and they didn't say yeah but they were like be yourself Anyways, I love those guys at Cash App. Boys Latin guys, not so much.

Paul Rable might have been one of those guys. You know? Fuck. He's a tall guy, too, six, three. Usually when those guys come around, I can be like, yeah, but they're little. Not him. Total stud. Here's Paul Rable.

All right, this is the first. I mean, this guy's like the head honcho of the PLL. I don't get a lot of like brass on the show, but he's a guy I've met. He's personable. He's done a lot in his 37 years. I mean, this guy has got the irons in a lot of fires, and I'm welcoming to the show Paul Ravel. Paul, how you doing, man?

Appreciate you, Chris, man. I've been trying to link with you through one of many mediums for now, five, six, seven years. We see each other in person quite a bit, but it's nice to have this conversation on your show. No question, man. It's good having you. And the guy who played a little lacrosse in high school,

I'm not saying I was great, but they kind of gave me. So I heard. Yeah, yeah. So they just gave me the long pole, and they were like, we're not really going to tell you the rules. I remember hitting a guy at Trinity, and I want to apologize to this guy as a private school in Richmond. I hit him like the Colorado State guy hit Travis Hunter the other night

because I didn't know the rules. The guy missed a pass on the sideline, and I just leveled him, and they were like, what do we call here? They throw a flag on you at least? No, I think they did. And the ref was like, hey, buddy, you can't do that. you need a little penalty box time. So I loved it.

We had a big defense. We had James King who played at UVA. You probably know James, about your age, a little bit older. And then Anthony Woodard, who went to Hopkins, actually. Yep. And that was how I used to go up to Hopkins to hang out with the football players. Yeah. And go to Preakness.

I bet you and I have shared a couple pretenesses. You know, that was the thing we used to say at Hopkins is that in our four years, we'll never go to fucking Preakness because we're still in the playoffs. Yeah. true. We used to be like, you know what? Every, every season before the Talston game, we'd be like, they're going to fucking go to Preakness.

That's good. So am I. No, but the football team, we actually got along with the football team at Hopkins. We'd all go and have some adult sodas at PJs after games. Yeah. But that was our local watering hole before going out downtown where nothing good ever happened. Well, let me tell you about Preakness. Not much good happens.

I remember one year looking up and seeing 100,000 glass bottles flying through the air. It was like the beginning of like a Braveheart battle. Right. People just started to throw them, you know? And I was like, that's going to be the end of preakness for me. But I didn't make it back up. But a Hopkins guy, man, so much respect, great player, man. You know, obviously just making the transition from the field, actually, while you were doing it to, like, ownership

and, like, being one of the top dogs, a co-founder of this league. 2003 cash app PLL championship is Sunday, the 24th at 3, Subaru Park in Chester, PA. We got the water dogs and the archers. My bar stool boys got the water dogs. Big Big Dan Katz is probably going to bet this game. I don't know if I should take the other side of it. But what do you see in this matchup, man? If I'm betting the over-under, I don't know if you call it that, it's 23 and a half goals, and it's to pick them.

Well, both teams have the best offenses in the game, and they both have really, strong defenses. Water dogs won last year, as you mentioned, Big Cat and PFT. They, uh, they're, they're water dogs owners. And, uh, they talk about those guys quite a bit. Uh, I was actually messaging with Big Cat just a moment ago being like, yo, let me, um, let me pick up your airfare and lodging, get you to Philadelphia for this game. He was like, I have so many NFL commitments. I was like, how about just thinking about it? How about I get a monitor on the field? And then I started thinking, is that a good look for us? If he's like watching the NFL, they're in our game, he was. gains, but so let me get back to it. Big Cat's the fucking man. Love, love the PMT guys. Water

dogs are ridiculously talented. They have the level of chemistry that you would expect from a championship team. Back to back years, we know it's hard to do that in any sport. And then the archers have been the number one team this year. Basically, I mean, there are two lost team, but really should have, could have had a claim to being undefeated. and they have the MVP and Tom Schreiber. So I'm hoping for, as now just a pure executive, I'm hoping for an overtime or one goal game that sustains, tune in, audience flow, long-tailed conversation in the next season.

And I'm expecting that, but you never know. Our playoffs have been a little bit crazy so far. Yeah, do you, you as, like, one of the head honchos, do you, like, root for, you know, in the NFL, the game is engineered in today's, you know, kind of context of, like, we need scoring. You know, like, do you guys feel the same way? Will you take like a physical, like big hit game? Or would you take the, you know, 20 to 19 game?

I mean, I appreciate big defensive battles. So I think I actually like living on both sides of the spectrum. So 20 to 19 is an amazing game. And I actually like a 6-5 game. If you're sitting in like 10, 7, 10, 8, you know, pick a side, right? So I love good defense. My brother played defensive tackle. Dartmouth, he's my business partner with the PLL. So I sort of grew up in the locker

room and understood sort of the mindset of a defensive player. I always had that mindset even as an offensive player well in my pro career. So I appreciate both ends, but look, we have engineered the game for pace. You know, we have 52 second shot clock, two point arc, and I think that's just modernization of pro sports, but trying to create a game that is just absolutely ideal for television. And so that's what we've been working over the last five years when we lost the POL. And I think that the game this weekend will demonstrate that level of pace.

Yeah. Well, I'm going to bet the over. I'm just telling you right now. And I want a little scouting report on my guy, Jeff Conner. I just want to shout out Jeff Conner from the Water Dogs. What do we see from the Virginia product? I mean hardcore Allie Dodger. So that means he'll split to his right and his left and shoot on the run.

Sort of like a throwback midfielder. You don't see that too much anymore because the style. the game has changed, much like you would have in football. If you're growing up in the 70s and 80s, you're building your skill set around run game, and now I'm building it in the air. And I think when I grew up,

it was all on the run. Like, just being fast and athletic and shooting down the alleys with a low angle, and then that's gotten sort of flushed out for sweeps across the middle and higher percentage shots. So he's a throwback midi. That's why I like him. We also talk about Ryan Conrad before the show,

also throwback sort of do it all athlete, you know, could have definitely played in the NFL, I would say athlete like that caliber. Yeah, wow. And you've got a football background. There is some crossover. I feel like lacrosse is cool because it's a combination of a few sports. I mean, if you've played basketball, you play defense, there's some elements. If you play football, there's probably some elements. You've got to have great hand out that you can build in other sports. But you want to grow the game, right? Like, there's all types of corners of the market that you're trying to hit. I know of, Harlem lacrosse. I know you guys have

interfaced with them. I love Harlem lacrosse. I know there are Power 5 football schools that I'm like, hey, why don't the Florida Gators have a lacrosse team that's not just a club team? Why can't some of these teams compete at a higher level? And then is there an international aspect of it?

Are there pockets around the world that you see yourself being able to grow the game like in those three categories if you can remember a lot? I mean, huge. So I would say start backwards and forwards internationally, we are once again in Olympic sport. We got that official recognition in 2019. We used to be in Olympic sport, 1904, 1908, and then 1932 when the games were in the LA Olympics. Then we sort

of like disbanded as a governing body and I've been working on that the last 20 years. In 1998, the first international U.S.-Canada game I remember watching on ESPN, there were 18 countries that we're playing. Wow. But it was always like USA, Canada, Iroquois, Australia, England, have good teams, Japan has a good team. Oh, really? 90.

Now they're over 90. And we are crossing our fingers, having completed the bid that we're going to get back into the LA 28 games. But I always tell people to cachet that the Olympic rings carry from a validation and just a universal language of got it, Olympic sport. Those guys, those guys wins gold medals. That's huge. on the university front, I mean, bringing in SEC lacrosse, which, by the way, those universities have club programs.

It's called MCLA lacrosse. The challenge for our sport is, I mean, just calling it space. Football in America is just so fucking massive, right? Yeah. And when Title IX was introduced, it was meant to offset the disproportionate investment into men's sport over to women. And so for universities that are making hundreds of millions. of dollars playing football, they've obviously kept that P&L the way it is, and it's offset by women's sports, because you get 84 scholarships in football. So there's not often team sports

that are started up on the men's side as there are women's. And women's Division I lacrosse has grown so fast as a result. So like Stanford, Oregon, Cal, they all have really good teams, Clemson. So I think that, well, the roadmap still is private funding. So Utah lacrosse was the latest and furthest west of a Division I program that was privately funded by this guy David Nealman who co-founded JetBlue. So we need more of that in like the Alabama's and Tennessee's of the world. But that certainly would elevate the conversation. And I think the access to new fans to the sport. And then the last one was Harlem Lacrosse.

So we work through our nonprofit arm called PLLSIS with dozens and dozens of nonprofit groups. So you have Harlem, Brooklyn, Bronx City just here in the boroughs of Manhattan. And then you have groups like Oakland, LaC., far out west, and Winters LaC., in D.C. And Owls LaC. and Cowles LaC., in Chicago. So we help invest by getting sticks in hands of those programs and goals on field or goals on court. And our latest investment was an initiative that we launched. launched and ran last week, actually here in New York City at KD and Rich Climman's Lower East Side Court. So we called it street lacrosse.

But Katie and Rich are investors in the PLL and they were like, how do we help get lacrosse in the community? Yeah. Right. So I'll talk a little bit more on this. I know I'm being long-winded. No, you're good. It's interesting to me. Lacrosse is not too different from hockey and golf.

I would argue that those are more difficult to access because of ice time and green teas. Yes. But we all have equipment. And where sport is so fucking great is it's an ultimate equalizer. Anyone who wants to play should be able to play. And that's why ball sports like hoops and soccer are so popular. So you don't get that in games that are expensive. So how do you then invest into making it less expensive?

So for us, it was like, cool. In every neighborhood around the country, there's a basketball court. And so let's build a game that you could play on the courts, just like we all grew up playing pickup hoops. and that was what we launched last week. It's called Street Lacrosse with KD. And we actually had a little bit of a battle of the boroughs where we brought in all of those orgs,

Harlem, Brooklyn, Bronx City. And those programs competed. And then we brought our pros, and they played pro games. And it was just so fucking great. So more of that type of stuff where we invest in the community is also a big part of what we're doing.

That's awesome. And you can't cut back on the equipment because I just read that you used to shoot the ball 111 miles an hour. So there's no, like I was kind of think, well, maybe they could just do it. bitchy equipment. I don't think so. I mean, dude, that was the first thing.

I remember he didn't invest. It was maybe because of this. But I remember having a conversation with Peter Goober, who's one of the owners of the Golden State Warriors and, like, major Vegas mogul and media executive. And he grew up playing lacrosse as well. And he was like, can you figure out how to play this game without helmets? You can do that. I will invest because, you know, I want to see faces. Yeah. And, you know, the balls in headspace.

You know, we piloted tennis balls. If that thing hit you had 100 miles an hour and blow up your orbital anyway. No question. No question. What happens? What's the worst you've seen somebody hit by lacrosse ball?

I mean, I'll pull up. I'll text you photos of goalies, legs and arms and hips and stuff like that. They just wear a chest protector and a throat guard with their helmet. Yeah. Off his nails, man. They get in the net,

and those balls come at them fully dense rubber, 100 miles. and they'll just mark up their whole body. I worry about some of their blood clotting and stuff from time to time, but those guys are just their own fucking animals. Animals, dude. Those toughest guys on the field. I guess I don't have to ask that question.

Who's a guy in the NFL? Because, like, I played for Bill. You know Belichick a little bit, and I know he tried to get you to convert to football. We had Chris Hogan on our team. Mike Pellegrino, dude, I know well from my time there. Awesome, dude. And then, you know, like, there's. It's just with the Jim Brown history, I mean, with Bill, I remember we played the Browns,

and he was like, stop the bus outside the stadium, and we all had to get out and take a picture with Jim Brown statue, and like a lot of it has to do with lacrosse. And, you know, it's the football thing, too, but there's a deep appreciation. There's a little bit of crossover. So I'm wondering, who's a guy in the NFL that you would like to see play lacrosse? If you could just pluck one guy or a couple guys to bring them to your league, to PLL, who would be. Oh, man, that's such a good question. Let me think on that for a second. I'm going Lamar. Okay, Lamar. Travis Kelsey. And by the way, Lamar went out to Charmed City Youth Lacrosse, which is the

version of that league I was describing in Baltimore and had a catch with those guys at Morgan State and I was tweeting about lacrosse and the whole community was going nuts. Lamar would be crazy. I think about like, I think skill position and speed. So Tyreek Hill, Juju Smith-Schuster, people that are like, man, that are just a little bit larger than life athletes, I think the crossover from football to lacrosse and across to football is there. And document, right? Two guys that I played with my year, I mean, I'll give you one example that I could talk about a lot, but went from playing attack as an offensive player to offensive line was Will Yateman.

Oh, wow. I mean, Will, that shows like, fuck, man. Like, we can talk about Chris Hogan and Chris is a beast and, you know, Trent, here with Penn State, All-American midfielder, and then went over to Monmouth, played a season of football, and then boom, had three Super Bowl rings. But Will Yatman, probably when he was playing with Bill and then other teams in the league, and he was like probably a seven-year journeyman in the NFL,

like out to 3-10, fucking Mitz, twice the size of mine. Yeah. That's a big boy I'm looking at it right now. Because a lot of people think people like you, Chris and Will is like, oh, they'll play defense, but not. Some of the best linemen in football have the best hands. Yeah. It's like centers in basketball. The softest most underrated hands to catch a pass behind the back from Chris Paul on the run.

Unexpected. You have soft hands. So I would say, I mean, I would say you can't miss on on guys that are like speed, wide, receivers, even safeties. But Aaron Donald probably fucking great, you know. Yeah, that would be, no. And are there fights in PLL because you don't want Aaron Donald beating up Yeah, you don't.

No, no, no, yeah. I mean, there are, there are fighting. There's not a, there's not a ton of it because of the implications, a five-minute penalty on 12-minute quarters would be. Yeah, it's a lot of time. Yeah, we take five minutes, but that's based off of the NHL, They have 20 minute period. So, you know, guys, there's plenty of, like,

roughing situations that have them, but nobody's thrown down this season, like, full on square off. I always say this. Hockey and lacrosse are the most culturally similar group of guys. They're just from different regions, and hanging with them is kind of the same. Like, I got a bunch of hockey buddies, and I fucking love them,

and their accents are different than y'alls. But there's a little bit of crossover there. Yeah. Well, I mean, they're northerners, and a lot of them are Canadian. And so the crossover is that lacrosse was created the version of the game that we see today in Montreal. The game that's been around for thousands of years is called Dehontique Juarez, and it was created by the Native Americans. And it was first formed as a spiritual practice of the creator.

And they would cut down hickory branches and bend them into lacrosse sticks. And then French missionaries came over into Canada, saw the game called it La Crosse. And Montreal Lacrosse Club was formed. And since then, it's been a national sport of Canada. Yeah. So, but they play a lot of the indoor game, but that's where a lot of that crossover from hockey to lacrosse. I mean, John Tavares was an exceptional lacrosse player, as was Wayne Gretzky. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So you just, you get that crossover probably in the stickball nature of the game, but also the type of people who play it tough, you know, just kind of don't give a fuck type of guys who just want to get their elbows dirty. No question. And a lot of lacrosse slang, a lot of hockey slang. You guys have your own vernacular. So, and my last question to you, Paul, be this. Like, it's a growing game. Obviously, you have done amazing things with it. You're going to be kind of at the forefront here, your young dude. The whole roadmaps in front of you. What does that look like, what's lacrosse look like in 10 years? Like where do you see the sport? I mean, I want to be

a top five sports league in North America. Difficult to do because you have so much competition and so much establishment. But the thing that I think about with lacrosse is especially if we get into the Olympics, you have the international game, 90 plus countries that are playing. You have the fastest growing at the participatory level. And you have the most historic game in North America. So, I actually view it incumbent on us to be able to make that dream or reality. You know, and you nail it, man. International College youth. And then if we keep doing our job, then we'll help grow the attention around all.

But even if we don't get into and how would you qualify top five team sports league, probably by viewership and total revenue, but even if we're not there, we always want to be the best pound for pound, you know? And I think that's where we are now, too, in the way of like our size. in scale and the sort of like the helmet that everyone proverbially puts on every workday to just fucking be the challenger league and and sort of right the wrong of where professional lacrosse used to be over the last 20 years and now what we're trying to do and that that's the stuff that gets me up and lean into the the passion because you guys have a really passionate i wouldn't call it niche

because that's not a it's not a backhanded compliment but it's like it's the people that love lacrosse love it more than, you know, some people that love their other favorite sport because they know it is a growing sport. And I feel like that comes across when you meet a lacrosse fan or you go to a lacrosse game. And so that's really cool. My, I lied. My last question is, if Big Cat called and he's like, I'll come to the game, but you've got to put me in the game, where would Big Cat play? And then if PFT is like, yeah, I'll come too. Where is PFT going to play?

I would say I would say probably throw Dan in net Or he doesn't have to run Or take him to take the opening face off Yeah I just think a face off guy And then PFT maybe in the midfield Or on a wing

Or draw I just let them like Get out there in the most primitive way And try to cut people up Yeah we need to go kick JMU's ass in lacrosse because they just beat us in football, speaking of PFT. So, yeah, Paul Rabel, appreciate the time so much. Keep up the great work, and hopefully I'll see you soon. Thanks, brother.

I appreciate you.