Green Light with Chris Long - Woniya Thibeault of Alone Season 6.

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

0:35 - Open and Alone Background. 6:38 - Woniya on Alone: The Artic, Surviving in the Wilderness, and the Outdoor Lifestyle. Check out Woniya's website: https://www.buckskinrevolution.com/ Green Light with Chris Long: Subscribe and enjoy weekly content including podcasts, documentaries, live chats, celebrity interviews and more including hot news items, trending discussions from the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA are just a small part of what we will be sharing with you. http://bit.ly/chalknetwork Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And my friend who didn't get chosen, unfortunately, he was like, well, Nia, it's going to come down to you in Jordan. And I was like, I think you might be on to something. I think that's possible. And it's going to be the luck of the draw. Happy Friday, everybody. This is the Greenlight Pod. And I'm your host, Chris Long.

As I teased on Instagram to the Greenlight Faithful, we have a great pairing of guests, a one-two punch from today, Friday to Monday, a few days from now. You know, we went away from the Monday podcast. It was a bit of an overload, I think, on you guys. And certainly my family appreciates it down to two a week. We were doing three for a while. Let me know what you think about every now and again dropping a pod on a Monday. Like if we have one, we have a surplus of great guests like we got in the summer.

Let me know what you think about a pod on a Monday. Comment, whatever y'all do. Appreciate it. but the guests are two of my favorite characters from the show that you can find on Netflix alone in the Arctic, which is the season six installment of the show alone. It's been out a year technically, but it just dropped on Netflix, and it is awesome, man. I binged it this summer. I was hooked like I was hooked on the wire or something, but it's totally different.

And I will say, if you're going to listen to this pod and you, you plan on watching alone in the Arctic and you want to know who won or you want to, you know, know certain things for the first time when you see them. Yeah, this is a spoiler alert. I'm usually not one to cater to the needs of people who haven't felt the need to watch something in over a calendar year. But here it is. Spoiler alert. And you should go watch it. You should enjoy it. Bank this interview. Trust me, it's good. Bank these interviews. They're both good. and watch them when you're done. But there will be some spoilers here.

Okay? Turn back now. Not turning back. Can't reach the old radio or however you all this motherfucker. You're in trouble. Okay? Three, two, one. Jordan Jonas wins.

Wenea Thibaut is the runner up. And tried to get them both. It was going to be hard. I know because the show is pretty popular. I mean, Jordan's been on Joe Rogan and Winnia's been all over the place. We tried our hardest, and we ended up with both of them, with fucking both of them. Okay. Heavy hitters here. Shout out to all the people behind the scenes at Greenlight Pot. Shout out to Ian. Yeah, dude, we got them both. I'm psyched because this show is awesome.

The show, the premise of the show is 10, 12 guys and girls that are survivalist types with a plethora of different skills from a plethora of different places and backgrounds. Some have families, some don't, you know, throwing their hat in the ring and seeing who can stay alive the longest in the Arctic. Southern Arctic, to make it at least fair, but this is way up. Like if you get on Google Maps and just scroll north, I've done this before, don't ask. And, you know, you keep scrolling and scrolling. And then in northern territories, there stop being like real cities or roads. Like, they're up there.

They're like north of there a while. and they go up in the fall and that turns to winter fairly quickly, as you can imagine. And these folks are doing kind of a Hunger Games thing. I don't want to simplify it because it's Hunger Games. It's a good movie, but it's a stupid fucking movie. Like, okay, sorry, not a stupid movie. I mean, it's like, it's not real, okay? This is very real.

These people are trying to stay alive in a very inhospitable setup, very cold, Wild animals, wolves, bear, wolverines, moose, which people don't understand, moose are very frightening animals in real life. Like, they're not cartoons. They're just huge 10, 12 foot tall fucking things with horns the size, you know, whatever they call them horns. I don't know. Racks.

They got big racks, okay? It's a scary habitat there. And food is scarce. You can only bring like 10 items. Listen, the fact that a few of them lasted a couple months and the winter lasted 77 days, that is insanity. I mean, it was cold by the end of it. They were ice fishing to build your own shelter, all that stuff. You have a lifeline, you know, you can use it and they'll send a chopper, but kind of like the spoiler alert earlier, there's no turning back.

You can't stay in the game. You can't make the call and stay or make the call and be like, hey, WebMD, yeah, you're out. come to get you, but they can't get there quick enough to ensure that you're not dead by the time they do. So hopefully you got to be safe in the meantime. And, you know, that's it. That and the med checks, that's all you have for 77 days. If you're the winner, like Jordan Jonas or just under that, Winniea Tobo is in the 70s as well. And these folks are not seeing anybody talking to anybody. Like, that's insanity when it comes to isolation. When it comes to cold, like you got to learn some things about yourself when you're out there that long, I'm sure.

And hopefully we'll get to find out what what these folks did learn over the next two pods. So really, really thankful to have them on. And they're both, we're talking about the same things today on Friday and on Monday with Jordan. But the interviews are so different because there's so much to talk about with these two. There wasn't much crossover. We recorded both these interviews. And we were like, there might be some things they talk about. that are the exact same and, you know, we'll make a decision on, you know, what to keep or what not to.

Listen, there was like no crossover. So very interesting people, Jordan Jonas, the man who took home, 500K, going to be on Monday. But for now, enjoy the runner up, who was awesome, Wenea to both. So the reason that for the listeners, and obviously I talked about this beforehand, that people would know Winnia now. And I know when he and I just got into the season six of alone in the Arctic. I was a year late because it aired, you know, in 19. But with the pandemic, with sitting at home, I was just binging stuff. And I came upon the season and it was just, I was glued.

I don't think I'd even binge like the Sopranos or something. Because it's so remarkable what y'all did. And you guys, for those listening, headed up to Slave Lake, which is essentially the Arctic. It's right on the edge. And I looked at Yellowknife on maps before, and I'd be like, I wonder what's in Yellowknife. I want to go there one day. It's just so damn far north. And they actually put a dot and a name right there.

It's close to Yellowknife, right? Well, where we were, I mean, Great Slave Lake, Cuneve in Dene, the native language there, is, it's huge. It's like 400 kilometers wide. So no, it was like a 45-minute plane ride from Yellowknife to where we launched. And then from there, I mean, then they took us in helicopters further out. So no, it's actually not very close to Yellowknife at all. Is there any other, is there anything on the map? What's the nearest thing on a map to be all?

Lutzel K is a native village that is the closest thing to that. There's no roads to it. You'd have to charter a flight to get to L-S-L-L-S-E-L-L-A-P-E-L-Post. K-E. So yeah, that's that's the closest thing. What time of year was this? Was it early fall or? It was it was early fall for us late fall for up there. It was mid-September, which you know, I mean, we had already had our first hard freezes at that point up there and the colors were all changing and the plants were just about done for the season. So yeah, early versus late fall is really different. It's relative, yeah. Yeah, I was taken back, why,

watching and thinking like, gosh, this happened fast. And of course, you know, if it's incomprehensible to somebody in the lower 48, you know, how quickly that happens. Yeah, we launched like right, you know, within a week or two of the first frost. And then we woke up covered in snow day three of being out there. So it was like no transition. It was boom, winter right away. Was that sobering?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, my shelter was still in the early stages. So like I was, I slept under my shelter, but I still woke up covered in snow. I had, you know, a roof but not walls and it had drifted in. So yeah, it was pretty sobering. And I had a lot of big plans that I wasn't able to finish because, you know, so many of my crafting projects needed to be above freezing. You know, like bark, for example, working with birch bark. Once the water in the bark is frozen, that's that.

I had a big plan for a big clay hearth and clay cooking pots and water vessels, but then the clay was frozen solid and there was no way. So, yeah, a lot of the things that I was really banking on all of a sudden weren't doable because it was mostly below freezing. And the rules of this thing, you were supposed to take, and by the way, Wenea lasted, spoiler alert, if you haven't. Well, you're going to figure it out if you listen to the podcast. So it was unbelievable. She lasted 76 days. I was 73. I would have been sucking my thumb like a baby by the third day.

And I'm just like, and you're positive the whole time. And I really want to get into the mindset in a bit. And your shelter you mentioned was the Cadillac of shelters. I think that was like, you know, it's like, you know, in a video game, they say, choose your fighter. Like, everybody has a strength. I was like, man, your shelter is amazing. I could live in that shelter.

That's the idea. But give me your background. Just to be clear, I just. want to correct because I was out there for 73 days and then Jordan who won it was 76. But when I left at day 73, then that declared him the winner. Oh, got it. So did they let 76 days? Did they, did they, so they just let Jordan spend a couple more days or did they grab them?

When it gets down to it, so the person who wins, they have someone, they have like a list of people that are going to come get them. You get to pick three people, but they call your people. And so when I left, that meant that they had to get Jordan's wife up there. Just boom. And then also a big blizzard came in. So it meant that they couldn't fly the helicopter out to get him. So that was the delay.

Isn't that wild? Because I was sitting there thinking to myself, you know, how quickly they had to scramble family members. That's not like taking a flight to Chicago. Right. Yeah. No. I was thinking to myself, you know, at any time, it could be very dangerous there.

I mean, it's dangerous anyways. But like, I think some people think because you have that sat phone or whatever was that like you're, at the very least, you'll survive. I kept thinking to myself, they could only fly that helicopter four hours a day by the end on a good day. So that's 20 hours of the day that even if you could get a signal out, which mostly you can't, you have to go and stand in a particular place with a clear sky

right in the direction of the satellite. And then you'll probably get a message out within an hour. So it's wild. So if you're mortally wounded or if you make a mistake or if, if you're very sick, which is like, I kept thinking of myself, you know, anything can happen, especially when people started ice fish. Yeah, they were very restrictive. They didn't let me go out on the ice for like weeks after I wanted to because they were so

concerned about someone falling through. So they were like really anal about not letting us out on the ice until there was no chance we could go through. And then I had to wear a safety vest and I had to construct this big wooden rig to drink to drag behind me in case the ice cracks so it has something to grab hold of to haul myself out of the ice with. So yeah, it's not, you know, they definitely have a mind to safety. And earlier on in the season before freeze up and before the light is so low, then, you know, you have a better chance of getting a message to them. And then they could get to you in a boat. But it's just

later in the season when the lake was frozen and it was only helicopters. Those can only fly in good weather. So if you've got a storm, no dice, and they can only fly in the light. And we had, you know, four hours of daylight at that point. So, you know, it got more and more intense as the conditions got more and more dangerous. So how about that? Do they buzz? I wonder this as I was watching. I don't know how much you can share. But like, I wondered, because they're not going to hear from you between the wellness checks or the weight loss checks. Like, do they buzz the area? And no, they do hear from us, we have to do we have to do us a daily check-in morning and evening. So they would check and this happened once because, again, the satellites were really bad. And one day I sent my morning

check-in from inside my shelter. And when I didn't have the shelter brushed in, you know, before I built those double walls, the signal will sometimes get out that way. But I didn't realize that as I added to my shelter, it meant that it wouldn't. So they didn't get my morning check-in and they showed up, you know, within an hour or two. So they do, yeah, if they don't, don't hear from you, then they know something's wrong and they'll potentially wrong and then they'll come and check on you. Which is only so much of a, you know, comforting thought because things can go south so quick up there and really anywhere, but that's just absurd when you like, give me your background

though because I feel like, you know, reading a little bit about you, you started doing this stuff as a teenager, right? I mean, this has been a lifelong. Yeah, I mean, 19, so like just on the edge of teenager. But yeah, so when I was, I mean, I was interested in this stuff my whole life, but I didn't really have access to it. You know, I grew up in a rural area, but, you know, in a standard home and food from the grocery store and all. So I was always fascinated by ancestral skills and homestead skills, but it was just like in my fantasy world, you know? And then when I was in college, someone gave me a copy of Tom Brown's The Tracker.

That book kind of inspired me. And then I started looking for instructors around me and ended up doing a, um, an ancestor, well, a backpacking course for a, for a semester in college, spent a summer backpacking with instructors who used to do like hoods in the woods programs, taking kids out. And they could only get fire from fiction fire. And they would only be able to eat if they could get a fire to cook their food. So they had a background in some of these skills. And then they told me about a gathering where instructors come together to teach them.

And so I ended up going to that. And that was like the event that changed my whole world. And I met a bunch of people and some people in my area who taught this stuff, especially who have taught hide tanning. So I really jumped in, you know, with both feet as soon as I found my way into this world. And so that was, yeah, 1995. So it's been main focus of my adult life for a long time, which isn't to say that you can't jump into it and learn it at any point.

Right. But I can't really, you know, pretty well steeped in all of these skills. That's for sure. Yeah. What about ancestral skills? Because that's a word I've heard you use a lot or a phrase I've heard you use a lot. And I have no idea what the heck it is, but I know that you're an expert in it. So, I mean, a lot of people refer to this stuff as primitive skills.

But there's some kind of like there's some load around primitive. And sometimes that's used in a derogatory way. So I like to use ancestral skills to signify the skills of our ancestors, you know, the skills that we evolved to utilize to live in close relationship with and dependent upon our environment. But they're interchangeable in terms of meaning, primitive and ancestral. I just prefer ancestral. Well, I like it.

I mean, and really, you've kind of carried that into, and I want to give the listeners a chance to check this out. The buckskin revolution thing you've done seems amazing. I was watching some of the YouTube videos, really informative. I'm like, oh, I already learned something. And I'm somebody who like to spend a lot of time outside. I am by no means survivalism. I think it's cool that everybody with the internet now

has access to these skills that you are teaching. You know, like that's one of the game changes, especially now like in a pandemic, you want to get online and learn something from Wenea. You can check out all her YouTube stuff. What prompted you to start teaching people? You know, I feel like I'm a born teacher That's been, that's just been who I am and my passion for a really long time.

So it's funny because even sometimes, like, I try to film, there's this project on YouTube life in a day and you're just supposed to film your life. And I was just editing some of my footage yesterday. And I'm like narrating the whole thing. I can't help but teach with everything that I do. So it wasn't a matter of getting into teaching. It was just like me doing what I do. And that's where it went.

Well, it's great because like, I'm watching these videos and I know that. like as like a podcast or somebody who makes content sometimes. They're not a lot of cuts in these videos. So you're one taking a lot of these things. So you are a teacher, you know, by trade because you are like going for 15 minutes without stopping talking about all these amazing skills that you can develop. And I think anybody listening should check it out. It's so rewarding to be outside, period.

And I think there's like, I think there's an element to it. There's so many people nowadays that are living in really urban environments. and they're just we all have TechNAC and probably you don't but like I don't even know that is you too yeah tech that is where you just bent to yeah I know you don't know what it is but you know you see people in cities walking around just staring at their phones so like I I think there's an opportunity for people to look outward and I'm hoping that if there's anything positive because it's been a horrible year but if there's anything positive about our challenges when we talked about this on the pod before

to look inward more and to be less dependent on, you know, it's great to be connected, but the intense interconnectivity, like there's a whole world out there. So if you're living in a city, check this stuff out, maybe get outside because that's the way you can properly socially distance this summer. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, I think that it's been a rough year, but I think that for me,

it's been kind of perfect in that I have been working so hard my whole adult life to try to encourage folks. to understand why these skills are so important. Right. We're like, that's not relevant anymore. And all of a sudden, pandemic and supply chains, you know, break down and people are, you know, really scared to seek medical attention. So things like herbal medicine and wild foods and hunting and gathering, all of a sudden they're really relevant. And then at the same time, alone season six goes on Netflix and people who are shut up in their apartments without access all the things they want are like, oh, but I'm warm and have food.

I could be in the Arctic and winter with no light and nothing to eat. I guess I'm all right. So it's been a rough year, but it's been kind of, you know, a poignant one for me and what I do. And all of a sudden, the world is doing the work for me of telling people why this stuff matters and why it's important. How do y'all live outside of alone in the Arctic? Is there any quote unquote normalcy to your life? So, well, normal is all relative, right? I was going to say relatively.

Yeah. So I think that that's one of the key things, honestly, about alone and about my time on alone is that everybody's coming from a really, really different background. And a lot of the folks on my season live in a standard home with heating and air conditioning and, you know, work standard jobs and that kind of thing. I have lived a lot of my life off grid in homes that I've built myself. I've lived, you know, outside a lot. I have, you know, lived plenty of places that didn't have running water.

I have rarely had central heat. I've always incorporated a lot of wild food and homegrown food into my diet. So for me, you know, being out on alone wasn't a big departure from my normal life. I mean, certainly it was, like isolated in the Arctic without stored food. Yes, it was a huge departure, but it was less so than for a lot of other people. And that was also true of Jordan, who won the season. You know, he spent a lot of time in Siberia living with native people who are reindeer herders. And he's spent, you know, six months of a Siberian winter on his own traffic by choice.

You know, I live my life by choice because it's what I prefer. So you take people who, you know, this is their preferred lifestyle and what they love and people who are hobby outdoors people on weekends and live a twilight. totally different lifestyle and we're going to have a drastically different experience out there. You know, I was out there because I wanted to be there. Other people were out there to suffer through it in order to make a bunch of money. Yeah. That's a very, very different mindset and outlook. And you see that reflected in people's experience.

You know, we were experiencing like Barry and I, for example, Barry and I were out there for a similar amount of time. He came out about four days for me, but we lost a really similar amount of our body weight. and we were experienced in the same conditions and he is suffering out there you know i mean you can they really show how he's breaking down physically mentally emotionally you know it was hard and i was losing just as much weight and i was just as cold and hungry but i was loving it you know i was there because i loved the experience and the environment and everything about it so i wasn't suffering at all there was a lot of variation in in the lifestyles to your point like and and i guess

I guess hearing it from you, there is an advantage, which is not a surprise to living that way 24-7, obviously not in the Arctic alone, as you mentioned. No, and not, you know, I don't live, you know, I have spent a lot of time living in normal houses with running water, too. It's not that, like, I live totally wild. But I've lived wild a lot, and I like living wild. That's my preference, and that's a big difference. I never got the sense that you were in it for the money. Do you think that you really think that gave you a big advantage, huh?

Yeah, it's huge, you know, because, and honestly, like what you say is true, I wasn't, but they did, they, they ask you kind of leading questions in the interviews beforehand, and they try to spin it like you're in it for the money. And they definitely like overdubbed me making it sound sometimes like it was about the money, which was really frustrating for me. Because I feel like, when you really watch it and you get me and my experience out there, it's pretty clear that's not what I'm out there for. But yeah, as you say, that is a profound difference. Because if you're, if you're you're in it for the money, you have a 90% chance of losing, even if the odds were all equal, which they are not. People are not coming with the same amount of experience. The sites are not, I mean, I had almost no game. I had no big game and no fishing. Jordan had amazing small game, amazing big game, and amazing. One one amazing big game incident. It was insane. The odds are not equal remotely. So, so basically, if you're in it just for the money, you've kind of already lost, right? because your chances of winning that money are not good. They're less than 10% because it would be 10% with everything else being equal.

Therefore, as soon as you realize that you can't win, why would you be out there? You know, you would give in. Whereas if you're out there for the experience, then every day is a win. You're winning every hour that you're out there and you're appreciating it rather than suffering through it for something that may or may not happen. So you're so likely to tap if you're out there just for the money. And that manifested itself because one of the things that drew me to you as a character and like a real person, but like it's, we're watching the show.

It's like, what character do you like on this show? And ironically, for me, you and Jordan were my two favorites. That's not me being a frontrunner. I'm not a frontrunner by nature. But I thought your positivity was just, it was, and you talked about Barry. And I could not imagine. But there were people that would go down these negative roads, these negative lines of thinking. and that could have been, you know, the ketosis or whatever, the, you know, the hunger, I don't blame them.

But what made you remarkable to me is even that last week, when I've heard you say that you were spiraling internally a little bit, you never showed it. You never really vocalized it. Even when you did, you had a smile on your face. Oh, yeah, I was loving every moment. I mean, and I didn't want to go. But one thing that you don't see from the show is I had a medical check on my birthday. I begged them to not come on my birthday. It's like, can you just let me have my birthday out here, like my favorite place in the world?

Could you just give me one extra day to not do a medical check? And they were like, no, I'm sorry. We're coming that day for a medical check. And I never in a million years thought that I would choose to go. But I had had all of these goals for myself. Like, okay, because I was way underweight. You know, I got my first like warning, look, you're underweight. We're concerned about your health on day 40.

So I knew for the last month plus out there that it was a concern and that I probably would get pulled rather than being able to stay out, you know, until I won or what have you. And so I set up all of these goals like, okay, I can't win the show. I can't be out as long as I wanted to, which was the whole winter. So what does success mean? And I was like, okay, if I can make it till this day, that success. And then I made it to that day. And then it was like, okay, if I can make it to this day, that success. And then I was like, man, if I could be out here till my birthday and spend my birthday out here, that would be amazing.

So, you know, I kept setting these little goals and just figuring like, and then and then they'll pull me and, you know, I'll have to go. So I never thought I would leave. But then I had this epiphany towards the very end where I had made all of my goals. I had succeeded in my mind and I knew that my body was tanking. And I still felt great. I still felt like I would push it for myself. But my epiphany was, this isn't just about me. This is about the millions of people watching me.

And what it looks like from the outside is me sacrificing my health long term for money and for competition and winning. And that is not in line with my values. And as much as I love being here, I can't represent something that's exactly counter to my values. So my choice, like part of why I was so emotional is I did not want to go. You know, I was dreading, leaving. I couldn't imagine living a life, you know, in a house without being so close to the land again. But it was about something bigger than me. So, you know, like my emotion, like I'm really, really torn about it.

And even after I decided to leave, I hesitated and I pushed it for another couple days. I had actually like tried to tap and was so conflicted about it. They were like, are you sure? And I was like, no, I'm not sure. I don't want to go. So, yeah. So basically I chose to leave knowing that if I didn't, I was going to be pulled hours later. And that me choosing to go on my own was a much more powerful message than getting dragged out of there.

I think, you know, dictating the terms of your exit and doing things on your terms is just such a. And I hadn't thought about it that way. Because when you did, I was like, I know she, like, I know she's hurting. But like her attitude's so great. I'm like, I feel like she could go another 50 days, but you really had this resolute attitude, which was, I'm not doing this for the money. I'm doing this for me.

And this is not going to be rewarding for me to sacrifice that. That's a great message. But also one of the other things I figured you're probably thinking about a good bit. And I know that you mentioned it is like being a strong figure for women watching. You know, like I thought that was awesome. Did you go into it with that attitude? or? Oh yeah. I went into it with that attitude and knowing, you know, I mean, there were three women and seven men out there. This season there are two women and eight men. And they keep saying, oh, we'd love to have a woman, a woman win the show. But like women are vastly underrepresented. So we already, I mean, if you look statistically at days stayed, the women statistically have done just as well as are better than men on average. But there are so few of us out there. We have a lesser chance of winning. And yet there's this whole idea that, you know, survival is like for big tough dudes and most of the shows are our guys you know survival shows out

there bear grills and you know what have you um i'm not repelling off of any like rock faces like bear grills if i'm in a survival situation no and i've never actually watched his show but i've heard that it's a lot of really bad examples of aggressive yeah so you know so i really wanted to represent something different and i wanted to show femininity as a strength not a handicap because i feel like it's often represented as a handicap. That's what you know, like I took what was supposed to be my neck buff and I wore it as a skirt because I wanted to be seen as feminine out there. Because there's that thing like, okay, sometimes you see women in this world, but they're

often like really like more masculine and more butchy women. And I wanted to be a feminine woman doing this stuff because it's not a liability. So yes, I absolutely was thinking about it. But I also really, it was for women more than anything and for young women, why I chose to go. Because women in our culture are also shown that our bodies are, you know, for other people. And for and, you know, what we look like is so key in how the world sees us and judges us. And I've been someone who has fallen into that and let other people determine what was best for my body. And so that was really the key was me.

as a woman choosing to leave myself rather than letting a team of male doctors be the one to choose what was best for my body. So yeah, it played in hugely in that decision. And that was the big epiphany that I had that I filmed. I was like sobbing like, I don't want to leave, but I know now that I have to. I have to because I want to be a good role model for the young women watching me right now. And they didn't choose to put in that footage. And I was really bummed because that was like such a poignant moment and very emotional for me. You know, they love showing people crying, and it was the only time I was really crying out there.

So I thought, surely they'll put this in. Yeah. Oh, they put you crying when you got your first bit of game, but they don't put the most powerful. That was one thing that I wonder was like the cameras, the editing, knowing that like at all times, like if the camera's on, your fair game, you don't have any like, hey, you can't put that in there. Do you? Like, do you have any editorial power? You can ask them. You can say, I mean, you're,

you're filming everything yourself. So like fair game. Like it's your, it's your choice. You can choose not to run the camera as much, but you'd be violating your contract. But yeah, no, you can say, oh God, please don't show this, but they totally can and often will. You know, they're looking for the drama often. So they're going to show those rough moments. Yeah, TV. Even, even such a powerful display of, you know, resiliency and stoicism and positive attitude. They got to, I'm not saying they butchered it, but if they left stuff out, that sucks. How about like, as far as applicants are concerned, what was the process, like separating yourself? 20,000 people as you're like, man, there was a pretty hot, it was a pretty hot commodity being on the show. Yeah, for sure. Well,

the show contacted me. I didn't apply. So, you know, that definitely gave me. me, you know, an advantage in terms of that process. So I came in a little late in the process. And, uh, yeah, you know, like it's, it's hard for me to speak to that. So our season had a much higher rate of applicants than most seasons prior because they had done two seasons in a row where they weren't really accepting applications. They did a season four was a pair of people. So anyone who applied as an individual, you know, they just hung on to their application. And then season five, was all returning participants. So they had three years to save up applications for my season.

So that made it the most competitive season to get onto. And the Arctic doesn't deter anybody. I mean, because like I'm looking at- You don't know when you're applying. You don't know. They don't tell you. When did you know that it's going to be the Arctic? Like a month and a half before we went.

What did you think? Well, I mean, I was intimidated. That's not a space that I've ever spent time. But also I was like, well, it doesn't really matter where we go because everyone's going to the same place and experience the same conditions. And I felt really confident in my skill set. You know, so I was like, well, okay, this will be a new exciting adventure and I'll have a lot to learn. But honestly, you know, another thing that was unique about me and my time out there is I made the vast majority of my gear that I brought out there,

a buckskin pants and a fur parco with buckskin outer shell and, you know, insulated buckskin overalls and like fur, fur and felt hats. The hat was stylish. The hat was stylish. There was some good gear. It was good gear. So for me and what I do, you know, hide tanning and teaching buckskin clothing making is a big part of what I do, the buckskin revolution. So a wet climate like Vancouver Island, just a rainy climate, would have been horrible for homemade gear. But for me, dry cold like the Arctic is primo conditions for the kinds of things that I make and do.

So in that way, I was really excited. that it was a really cold climate where, you know, making my own gear was going to be feasible and potentially even an advantage. How did you prepare physically? That's a great question. So, you know, I didn't do much skills practice. So basically, you know, we had very little time to prepare. And then we didn't know where we were going until towards the end of that time.

We knew it was going to be an extreme climate. But they told us it would be somewhere between the climates of Mongolia and Vancouver Island, which was, you know, the main. main places the show had been before. It wasn't. It was way more extreme than any of those. So, you know, my preparations were for me, it was like, okay, I could either work on skills practice or I could make my gear. I can't do both. I don't have time to do both. So I decided to spend the time doing my gear because that's what I teach and what I do is, you know, the ancestral skills and the handmade and the natural materials. So I really wanted to go representing myself and my

background rather than just like buy a bunch of fancy gear so I had time to do more skills practice. But in terms of my physical prep, I had already been doing intermittent fasting for about a year and a half. So I felt like intermittent fasting was huge and really key. I also spent periods of time going into ketosis, which is where you're not eating carbohydrates. But then that's also a state in which you tend to lose weight. And I didn't want to be losing weight. I wanted to be packing on the fat. So I would like do ketosis. And then. then eat a bunch of carbs. I think I did ketosis like twice, two periods of like a week,

just so that my body would be more adjusted to it and would recognize it when it happened out there because a lot of people get really ill when they first get into ketosis. But if your body knows what it is and is experienced with it, you're less likely to get ill. And we see that. A lot of people get really sick and feel awful early on and alone, but I never did.

So that felt really important physical preparation. I was also, you know, packing in the calories. I managed to put 20 pounds on that summer while also working out. So I also was working with a personal trainer to build a lot of strength, but without, you know, ideally without losing weight. And I was specifically working to make sure that I was going to be strong enough to pull my 40 pound bow even as I was getting potentially weak with starvation. So that was really key.

And then also to build like core stability. so that I had really good balance and just really good overall, you know, fitness and strength and resiliency in my body, which was a challenge to be packing on weight while also, you know, building a lot of strength and core fitness. Right. Right. I just started trying that intermittent fasting stuff. I guess are you doing the 16-8 or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. Basically, I eat between like noon and 8 or 11 and 7. Every day. Most days. No, I make exceptions. You know, like if I, if I, if I, if I, I know that I'm going to be busy. You know, if I have something planned, it's going to go through the whole morning.

I'll eat first. I just did a rafting trip for five days and everybody would like eat in the morning. And then we wouldn't. And I was like, well, I don't do that. And so for a few days I didn't. Then I was like, this is ridiculous. Yeah. I need a bar going through a rapid because now it's 11.

So, you know, I make exceptions. But in general in my life, yes, I do that. I think that it's really important to be flexible, you know, like I try not to be rigid in this stuff. But having the discipline and the experience of knowing that you can go really hungry and that it's okay, that is what really makes the difference, that your body and your psyche know that it's okay. So you don't have to do it all the time in order to get those benefits.

And probably, I mean, you're probably walking a tightrope between gaining too much weight because I would assume they're thinking it's like percentage of weight loss. Like when they manage football players' weights, it's like it doesn't matter if a defense of back who's a smaller, fast guy loses 10 pounds, it's much more of a big deal than if a 260 pound guy like me loses 10 pounds. You know what I mean? Sure. Yeah, they use BMI. So putting on more weight wouldn't have wouldn't have hurt me. I mean, I was trying like 20 pounds was as much as I could manage. And also, if I had, I couldn't have squeezed into my pants if I had put on my comment. But, but yeah, you know, the one of the main survival guys on the show, because they

have survival experts out there in the field who are doing part of the assessments and just kind of checking out what you're doing and making their little notes, which is interesting. Yeah, that is. He's coming out with a book. I actually wrote a piece for his book based on my alone experience. But where he talks about gaining extra weight isn't necessarily helpful for you. It kind of, you tend to, like, I ran through those 20 pounds way fast. I lost a pound a day.

So my very first medical check was day 21, and I had lost 21 pounds. And from there, my weight loss really slowed because then I was at like my core normal weight. So I'm still glad that I had those extra 20 pounds. They maybe gave me 20 extra days. But I sloughed that weight super, super fast compared to my normal, you know. Right. It's not like your core weight. It's, you know, it's excess.

So it probably falls off fast. I mean, when, when you can get a momentum with that weight loss where it can cut into your core weight faster if you put on enough weight that you're using it more rapidly. That's, that's his theory that he talks about in, in his book. How about you lost what, 40, 50 pounds? 50, yeah, and I'm 5'4. And yeah, it's a lot different than me losing 50 pounds. So like you had to, and I think about all the sensations as you got out, you know, into the Arctic,

I think about all the sensations that would concern me and I was trying to rank them in my head for me. I don't like being cold, okay? Like, I think that's happened as I got older. I used to, like, I'll play football and, like, we'll play a game in zero degrees, but I'm moving. You know, the adrenaline's right. I do not like sleeping in the cold.

Like, you know, the isolation might be tough, the boredom, but the hunger. I mean, you said you're used of it. What are the mental effects for somebody who's not used to it of starving? I mean, I'm used to it in terms of like waiting until noon or one to eat, you know, very, very different. I wasn't used to that level of hunger. I had never fasted for more than 24 hours prior. But, you know, and here again is the mindset is like one, loving being out there, wanting to be out there.

Believing that that lifestyle is the best lifestyle for people, loving ancestral skills, loving the challenge and the ability. to push myself and really put my skills to the test. So, you know, going without food wasn't, it's not like I loved it. It was uncomfortable. I didn't want that. But I wanted the other things so much more that the reward was greater than the discomfort. And I do think that there's a super huge value in building a relationship with discomfort. And then it's less uncomfortable to you, you know?

So like I've gone, I've lived in, you know, Wisconsin without running water or central heat. And Vermont. and Northern Ontario in an uninsulated cabin, you know. So the fact that I'm used to being uncomfortable means that discomfort isn't as big a deal for me. And also, I'm always looking for the gift in whatever experience, you know. So I could sit there thinking about how cold I am and focus on that. And then that becomes bigger and bigger and less comfortable in my mind. Or I can be like, you know what?

Thank goodness. It's less than 15 degrees because all water is. frozen and that means that I'm not wet and cold. It's a dry cold. So hallelujah, you know, looking for the gift and focusing on that completely changes. Like here's an example. I, you know, I starved straight up for the first two weeks. And then I started getting food. And it was amazing. And I appreciated it so much. And then I went through another period of starving again because the foxes came in and were clearing out my traps. And at that point, I had burned through all of that extra weight I had put on. I did not have reserves. And I was like,

uncomfortably hungry. And I was like, I'm starving. And that focus on starving had that really uncomfortable. And then I was like, you know what? I'm not starving. I'm doing a really deep cleanse. You know, people do cleanses on purpose. I'm doing a cranberry chaga cleanse. And it's good for me. And then starving didn't feel as uncomfortable. And all that was was in my mind. and shifting my attitude and my relationship to it. And I felt different physically. I felt stronger. I felt more resilient.

I felt better and less uncomfortable as soon as I changed my mental attitude about it. Is that the psychology of being a survivalist, like a multitude of attitude choices? Is that what's necessary? Because I always want to be the psychology of being a survivalist. I mean, I've never described myself as a survivalist. That's not where I'm coming from these skills

and this lifestyle from. it just happens that it's also applicable to survival, which is great. But yeah, no, in fact, I have a workshop that I teach called Connection is a survival skill. And I talk about attitude. And that is, I think, the least focused on, but most crucial skill when you talk about survival and long-term wilderness living. Yeah. I just wonder, like, how bad did the pain start to set in of hunger? And then when did they, do they subside?

because most of us only know hunger pains. Like most of us only know like, damn, the first bit of food I got, that hurt. Like when you got that grouse like two weeks in, was it, was it the grouse two weeks in? Yeah. And I actually got a squirrel right before that grouse. And that's part of why I'm so emotional when I get the grouse because I had nothing, no game. Like bang, bang. And then I was on my way home with my squirrel when I shot the grouse.

So I was like, okay, now this land wants me. Like the land has spoken and it has tested me and I have been grateful and prayerful and happy every day as I starve in the Arctic. And now it's like, okay, you're in. Here's two two game animals. Yeah, the doorman finally let you in. It was like, so did that hurt going down like that food or did? Oh, no, God. No, it was amazing.

Yeah. No, I never, you know, I, they have you. Well, for me, you know, having. lost, you know, 33% of my body weight and being really shrunken. They have you on a refeating program when you first come in. But I actually was able to be on the accelerated refeating program because I, you know, I was pretty wise, I would say, and how I went about things. I brought a food item as one of my 10 items that was chicken, which is high and fat. It was the only food item that was high in fat. To my mind, it's silly to bring anything else. But I

I kneaded that out. I had a little bit of pemmican on the day that I left. And so I also was eating. I stored up a bunch of cranberries before the snow got too thick. So I had cranberries to eat every day. And I made myself eat, you know, a little pinch of pemmican for the fat. And as many cranberries as I could eat before they made my mouth too raw every day. So my digestive system didn't shrink down.

And I was still able to process a little bit of food. And like my, because one thing that happens with starvation is your gut stopped being able to process food. But I was, you know, I was still working my guts. So they, yeah, it was never uncomfortable. It was always amazing when I got food. It was so interesting to hear you talk about the little bit I've heard like the last week and like knowing there was a difference. Like what was the physical difference that you identified this being a problem? Yeah. So, you know, up until the last week, I was getting medical checks and they were telling me they were concerned about my health. And then, you know, it was clear that the situation was getting more and more dire. And at first,

when they first told me, I had this like, oh, God, wow, I'm so bummed. Like, I feel so great. And then I was like, you know what? They're outside of me. They're not in my body. My body feels great. So it's fine. They're wrong. Like, it's fine. I'm doing great. I feel great. I'm going to keep feeling great. So I did. And then it was towards the very, very end. They were asking me questions, like, how are you sleeping? I mean, is it like uncomfortable in your bed? Because you're so bony. And I was like, I don't know, what are you talking about? And they were like, what does it feel like to look at your body now? And I was like, it's negative 20 degrees. I'm not ever looking at my body. It's under four layers of wool. But finally it started to sink in. And I started

actually like in my sleeping bag at night when I didn't have all my clothes on actually feel my body. And I was like, oh, huh, that's different. And I. And, And so it was partly like allowing the knowledge that, in fact, there was a lot of change happening in. And then I let myself feel it. I think that I probably could have like pushed myself right up until death if I hadn't done that, you know, because our bodies are so incredibly resilient. Our minds can be stronger than our bodies. And I think that I could have done that. But I also know myself well enough to know that I can push myself really hard.

And I've done myself harm pushing myself really. hard. And so I knew that that's what was happening. And then once I kind of let in, okay, it actually is getting pretty dire. Then I started to feel it. And I had this sense that I was like walking up to the edge of a precipice. I was still walking. I could still do everything I wanted to do towards the end. But it took more will to make myself do it. There was more inertia and momentum in just like sitting there. And I like, I could get up in the morning and put my boots on, but I had to make myself. And every other day, I had, you know, been eager to go about the day and putting on my boots wasn't an effort. And then I also, I had all of these routines set up where I had a dance party every Thursday when I was out.

And I was like, if I'm not loving this life enough to go and dance it out, then I shouldn't be here. You know, well, that very last Thursday, I didn't. I just didn't have it in me. And I also, you know, I was prayerful and I would, I would sing the sun down every single day. And I loved that. That was part of the beauty and like my gratitude and my routine. And then it got to where it felt like a chore. I was like, oh, I got to go sing the sundown.

And I was like, ooh, wait, that's not right. Something really shifted. So it was that. It was that I was having a harder time keeping that love and that engagement with the world around me. and I was having to push myself to do everything that I did. I didn't lose capacity. I lost drive. And I knew myself well enough to be like,

that's not right. You know, that's not how I am. And that means that like there's big shifts happening. And they basically told me that the doctors had wanted to pull me long before, but the show was like, no, she's doing great. And, you know, we want to give her a chance.

And, um, but, you know, sometimes people will, like people who are starving like anorexics particularly, they'll keep going fine until all of a sudden their heart stops beating and they die in a heart attack. So they felt like that was, I had that capacity to just go, go, go and feel good and then drop over dead. And they felt like that was, you know, I was getting closer to

that and I started to feel that that was a possibility. And so even though I still felt good, I knew that I didn't want to cross that line. What's it like looking in the mirror the first time when you leave? It was really freaky. I mean, I had no idea. I knew I was getting skinny, but the first time I saw myself in the mirror was so shocking. I mean, like, you know, like the bones of my face. My eyes were just sunken in hollows. And my skin was like black from charcoal and so ground in. And my hands, like deep bloody cracks all over my hands. I mean, I knew that because I could see those. But yeah, the look of my face. I mean, I looked like a bobblehead, you know, with my body so shrunken and my head big, but all of the, you know, I had like, I had like folds

in my cheeks, you know, because, because there was no meat there under the skin. You can see when somebody looks healthy, like, like, in a traditional sense of just being, like, well. And it's amazing seeing, like, because I'd go, I was watching the show and then I'd, like, go look at, you know, people's Instagrams. Be like, what do these people look like when they're back to normal? I'm like, what, how they're living now? And, like, you know, know. And it's just, it's insane. I had to wonder not only the effect of seeing yourself in the mirror for the first time in 74 days or 73 days, you know, the difference, but also like, the experience of never looking at yourself. I mean, that's different. Psychologically, I mean,

it's got to be kind of liberating, maybe. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's the view screen on the cameras. Oh, yeah, so you do have the camera. But it's not detail. No, I mean, because of the mirror was so shocking. So yeah, I couldn't really tell, you know, it's this teeny little image of yourself. And the camera adds weight. Right. Yeah. Yeah. 10 pounds. I'm doing good. I mean, it says here that I've lost 50, but maybe it's only 30 pounds. Like your first meal, I know that you said you, you grab some pemmican on the way out, but like, were you, did you plan? Were you like, I'm going to have pancakes or I'm going to have this? Like, and I know that Yellowknife might not have an Arby's or something like that. But what do you eat?

because I'm assuming you're like, well, I got to eat the bars or whatever they have in the helicopter, like, right now. Or is there a... They didn't have any food for me in the helicopter. Oh, what? Yeah, no, I thought that we got food right away. One star. No, no. You could kill yourself eating right away.

So I had... So there's a scene at the very, very end. They show me talking about a biscuit with butter. And that was after I had called to tap. I knew that they, like, the helicopter was on the way for me. Because before that, I didn't ever let myself think about food. started thinking about food out in the world, then it would have been, it would have been harder to keep a good attitude. So once I knew they were coming for me, then I started to think about

what I could eat. And I started talking about butter and biscuits. So I was picturing something like that. No, what I had for my birthday dinner was bone broth and a little bit of pureed vegetables because I wasn't allowed to eat. Because it's dangerous, right? It's dangerous. Yeah. So I, so that's what I got. Like they came and they gave me bone broth when they arrived in the helicopter. But I was expecting more food than that. And then they brought me back and had a doctor just check me out to make sure I was healthy enough to get on a plane to Yellowknife. Because we had a production or they were in a production base camp way out in the wilderness. So they gave me like the thumbs up.

Yes, you can take her straight to the ER, which they did. And then I was like, could I have a snack on the plane? and they gave me like a little bag of trail mix and told me to be very careful and maybe not eat the fruit in the trail mix, but just, but by that time, I was like, oh, I've already eaten the whole thing. That's maddening. Yeah. Because you're like, you know, yeah, I mean, it's the reality. People put themselves in the hospital a lot before.

They didn't used to be as conscientious with the refeating program and people got really, really, really, really. How long does that last the refeating program? Is it just a couple days or is it like? No, it depends on your. It depends on where you're at. It depends on your system. So I, they put me on like an accelerated plan. And so by, I was able, because I was the last one out there, you know, because Jordan wasn't

badly off. So Jordan didn't have to go to the ER or be on a refeating program. He'd been eating. Yeah. Every day. Even got half, he even got all the fat stolen by a Wolverine and he still. Not all the fat, just a little bit of it. He would be a dramatic with how much fat he looked.

Well, they just used the cuts that made it look more than that. He wasn't being dramatic. They just picked and choose. They made it look dramatic. It made me, I was like, Jordan must be pretty like mentally tough because he got all his fat stolen by Wolverine. And he like, I would have been so mad at myself leaving the ladder up. I would have been so mad. Well, and the Wolverine got up because of the ladder once, but even after he took the lap down, it chimmed up the pole. Yeah. So no, Jordan had hundreds of pounds of food left. He had like 10 fish, like a seven fish and 200 pounds of moose and still part of the Wolverine and like buckets of fat still. They just, you know, they just showed. The cracklins. The cracklings look so good. Like I'm sitting here and I have access to whatever and I'm like, you know, those cracklings look

good, dude. Cracklings are amazing. I would lay in my bed at night just dreaming of bear cracklings. I've processed a lot of bear fat in my life. So I've eaten a lot of bear cracklings. And all I would do was fantasize about cracklings in bed at night. But so I, so I was the last one out there. And within two weeks, I was recovered enough that I got out, but by last one, I mean like on the ground in Yellowknife because Jordan got to go home a lot sooner because he wasn't as poorly off. But me, they held me because I was so underweight.

So I was there, like, as the whole production was wrapping up. So I got to go out to dinner with the whole crew all of our last night in Yellowknife. And I got to eat whatever I wanted then. How about Jordan's killing of the moose? and the variation between settings. Like, I figured there's so much variation and how much game is present. I noticed that in watching some of the characters,

some of the people, I use the characters, some of the people on the show, my favorite character here. Some of the people on the show, like, they just couldn't catch a break. All they saw was squirrels. And then when the foxes came along, I didn't know you couldn't kill a fox up there.

I mean, but they were doing your food. Yeah, no, it was an issue. I mean, so yeah, like none of the women on my season had a fishing location. Fish was like world class fish. People come from all over the world to fish this. Like some people had deep water and could catch fish. And some people like I had like the water was like a foot deep. There was no fishing where I was.

So and then also I was on a narrow rocky peninsula. There was no big game on it. And there was really limited small game. But Ray was on an island. So there was no way. he had access to big game. And they don't even tell you that he's on an island. So, right, got the really short end of the stick.

Yeah, he got like, he ate the three squirrels that were on that island, basically. And then, like, what are you going to do? Right, right. Yeah, that was tough. And then, and then, of course, Jordan, when the moose came in, I was like, I was thinking to myself, is this like the, I don't know if you've seen the movie, the Truman show where they're, like, controlling everything from a production. I was like, did they, I love that movie?

So I'm like, did they just drop a moose? in here? Like, it's... I mean, no, they don't, it's... No, I know they didn't, but it's that unlikely. But, I mean, Jordan, like, Jordan was already the ringer, right? Jordan has lived by himself in Siberia, surviving on his trapping. So right away, he's got tons of experience in an environment really similar. And then he got the ringer spot.

I mean, an old burn with all of the vegetation just growing up is like the best possible spot for both small game and big game. and then he also had amazing fishing. And not to say that Jordan isn't incredibly skilled. Like he's incredibly skilled. He didn't need the luck. He didn't need the luck. But he freaking had it.

Yeah. I mean, I was out in the woods with a moose call all the time too, but they didn't bother showing that because it never brought a moose. I mean, there was no, I didn't have a shot at a moose. So why show, you know? I'm sure there were some people that were uncomfortable with it, but I certainly was. And I understand like that if you're respect.

And this is, this is life of death in this situation. Yeah, I mean, I have a, I have a, it's actually my most popular YouTube video. It's had, you know, like 130,000 views or something, talking about Jordan's moose kill. And, you know, people don't tend to have a problem with you killing a squirrel or a rabbit. And yet they do with a moose. And it's like, well. Like a class system. Well, right.

Because if you're eating squirrels, you have to kill, you know, 200 times more squirrels than you do if you're eating moose. So, like, is a squirrel life not as important as a moose? I always wonder that. I mean, I wonder how people. You have to kill one animal and you're eating for months. If you don't have that, you're killing hundreds of animals. So, like, your moral, you know, basis for taking issue with the moose has no logic. Yeah, it's a little illogical.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I watched him get it. And I know that he had to wait it out. I mean, that's a dangerous animal. I think a lot of people don't understand how dangerous. A wounded moose is?

The other huge thing is like we had limited territory. Most game, if you approach wounded game, you're going to spook it and it's going to run. And the chances of it running out of his territory were really good. And then he doesn't get the moose and he's killed an animal for no reason. So on so many levels, he did the right thing. And yeah, the issue, you know, I think that the people who took issue with it really just have a hard time with hunting and don't understand what it's like. And they don't have a problem with buying meat at the store where it's all

nicely wrapped in plastic packages. But the reality of life and death and the reality of the fact that those cows that you're eating had a worse life and a worse death than that moose, you know. Yeah. And I think a lot of hunters are very misrepresenting, you know, the way to respectfully harvest an animal. So the mainstream. you know, vision of a hunter is some dude spotlighting a dough on the side of a highway in

Alabama or, you know, killing big game in Africa for no reason, trophy game. Right. It's just, I get it. I was vegan and I was anti-hunting when I was a kid, you know? So I totally get it. I was totally against hunting then and I have a different perspective now. But, yeah, it helps to have to have kind of been on both sides. But people wrote me livid about the moose thing because they felt like I would be livid about it too.

And that's why I did this video because it felt really important to be like, here's the reality of hunting and eating meat. And even if you're vegetarian, it's not like you're doing no harm. I mean, carrots are living creatures too. Not creatures, but living things. And so, you know, you're saying that a carrot's life doesn't have inherent value, but a squirrels does or, you know, there's just. just so many fallacies and a lot of these arguments when you start to bring morality into it. Well, I love carrots and I love venison jerky.

So like, also, by the way, if they're writing you with criticisms, it's like, I don't even know if you can count it as writing when it's in a comment section. It's not like they're writing you letters. It's just like people are just so critical of everything. Oh, yeah. And it's really hard to move online. Anyways, as far as the zone, you said if Jordan's Moose

was out of the zone, he literally would be a rule on the show. Not only would be wasteful if you lose the moose, but it would be out of his zone where he can't travel. Oh, yeah. Like the reason why I didn't have good fishing or, you know, game possibilities is because they drop you in an area and there's a fence, a geo fence. You know, you can't leave your territory. Yeah.

So you don't know. You can't see the boundary. But if you go beyond it, you get a message on the GPS device that you have to carry all the time. So if that moose had left his territory, he couldn't have gotten it. I mean, we're not allowed. How close is your zone to other people's zones? I think there's usually a buffer.

So I don't think that they're right on one another. Like there's my boundary. And then because I was actually just north of Jordan. But my boundary didn't reach his boundary. How about like sizing people up? You're not being competitive. But naturally you're looking and you're, you know, you're seeing what people skill sets are maybe admiring different skill sets, respecting them.

Did you make any determinations in your head, even though you're not competing with people, like who might be there at the end? Yeah, sure. Yeah, no, I definitely. Right. Yeah. You know, and I had a good friend who was with us at boot camp. So the final selection process is they bring 24 people out to a 22, anyway, 20 people and two alternates.

to New York and do a bunch of assessments, you know, like psychology tests and physical health tests and skills assessments and IQ tests and like all of these things. And my friend who didn't get chosen, unfortunately, he was like, well, Nia, it's going to come down to you in Jordan. And I was like, I think you might be on to something. I think that's possible and it's going to be the luck of the draw. So, you know, it's interesting too because I felt like I was kind of discounted by a lot of people for being a woman, for being like a hippie girl from California, for being someone who, like, I was pretty scattered at boot camp and pre-launch because I was still madly making my gear. Like I was up until all hours every single night before launch because I was working on my stuff. So I was nervous and people thought I was nervous about going out there, but I was nervous that I wasn't going to finish my boots on time. I was like totally hiding the fact that my gear was not yet finished because I was insanely ambitious.

I made like 20 things, you know, like my own boots and my own parka and my own insulated overalls and my own, you know, two hats. I knit both of my sweaters, like knit two huge sweaters all in the month and a half I had to get ready. So it was absurd. I was like knitting on my sweaters as we're doing first aid trainings before launch. So people were like, this girl does not have it together, you know. No, you never struck me as I, you always struck me as somebody who was going to go far because to me, like, still waters run deep and like you just kind of had this easy way about you. You weren't like proving something on camera.

Not that anybody else was, but like you weren't like doing some. People were fronting for sure. Like before launch, there was a lot of kind of like posturing and people were definitely talking themselves up a bit. And I never did that. I just sat quietly in the corner knitting. And so I think people discounted me because of that. But yeah, I felt, you know, lots of the folks had awesome skill sets.

But I had, I felt like I had an idea of who was going to go furthest. And a lot of those ideas bore out. You know, I mean, there's, you can't know. There's accident and injury. And there's lots of times. There's so many things, you know. I felt like for some of the people competing, it must have been maddening. not knowing how many were left.

For some of the people thinking about, like, I'm in this, hit it against everybody else. And your mindset was different, which ruins my favorite question as I'm late. I was like, it's like, I want to ask, and I'm going to have Jordan in a little bit. But like, what, you know, how does that affect somebody's psychology

and knowing like, I've pushed so far, but maybe there's eight people out here. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You don't know. I mean, it's interesting because we reached, so the Mongolia season, which was the season right before ours,

was the most extreme environment they'd ever had. But it was nowhere near as cold as our season. Like they didn't get snow till the very end and we had a three. But that season was determined by day 56, I think. And so I'm out there and it's, you know, day 56 is come and gone. I'm like, there's no way. Like, there's still people out here. Like, we're just getting started.

And but also, I think that if you, you, if you're out on the land in a good way and you're out there, you know, with the right intentions and the right mindset and you're really dropped in and you're connected, your intuition really develops. Like I felt like I knew. I had a sense when there were less and less people out there. And part of that is, you know, like also they started bringing me a lot more batteries than they had.

So it's like, oh, there's more batteries to go on. So there were indications too. And there were indications with how they. they interacted with me in the medical checks. I could tell that the doctors were impressed with me. And so I was like, oh, I'm doing well relative to the group. But that said, also the intuitive sense. Like there weren't any clear indications.

But like, by day 70, I was like, okay, it's in it. Like, weird day 70. There can't be eight people left day 70. How about last question about when you're in was the shelter? Like, I wondered the temp outside. They kept showing the temp outside. how like and you were your shelter was like I said earlier it looked like a mansion um like well it wasn't very big it was so nice you had it like layered I don't even know what to call half this stuff but I was

like oh yeah her shelter's good I don't know what I'm looking at but it's a damn good shelter and then and then you look so comfortable in it and cozy it was like is it 10 20 degrees warmer when you got the fire in there what's the actual temp in the shelter on a cold night that's a great question. Basically, like, I would be eating my little bit of like rice boiled squirrel bones, you know, because I would eat freaking everything. And if, so I would hold it over the fire and then I would have a little sip. And if I set it down on a rock, it would start freezing over pretty quick. Okay. So it was cold. Yeah, you had to really huddle around that fire. Yeah, I was like literally straddling the fire. I had one leg on either side of it. And it was way below freezing as soon as I

got away from it. So the problem was that shelter was incredibly built, but I still had a hole for the smoke to go out because my plans to build a chimney were thwarted by the temperature dropping so fast that my clay was frozen solid and I couldn't build a chimney. So it was never as sealed and warm as it could have been given how well built it was. That was a huge liability for sure. Yeah, it was freaking cold in the shelter. Yeah, okay. Well, what about reentry? Because like, you talked about a meal or a eating kind of program like what about stimulation and like just you know being social again yeah the stimulation thing was big so i got taken out to to yellow knife to be you know to go to the er and then because barry was still out nathan was like

they were still like with the staff so barry and nathan and then before too long jordan were all on the ground at the production camp, they ended up keeping me in Yellowknife longer, whereas other folks went back to the wilderness, like to live where the production folks had been during their recovery. And I was so grateful because I knew if I was there, there would be all of the staff and the scurry of people.

But in Yellowknife, I basically was kind of like shut up in a hotel suite by myself. And I interacted with two people, the person who was making my food, and then the medical guy who was like checking my, heart rate and checking all of my vitals every day. And I was so grateful to only be interacting with those two people. I felt so just raw, you know, like I felt like my skin was made of cellophane. I just everything, every stimulus, every, like I was so emotional when I came out.

I hadn't been very emotional out there. When I came out, like every time they would bring me a plate of food, a teeny plate of food because of the, you know, refeating program, I would just sob for 10 minutes before I could even eat it just because the significance of a plate of food that I didn't have to work my ass off for was so huge. So yeah, I just was, yeah, everything felt really, really intense. I was very emotionally, physically, and in every other way, very raw when I first came out way, way more so than I'd ever been out in the wilderness. Like, you know, I went straight from the wilderness to getting into a plane to the ER. I was in the ER for eight hours in the waiting room, just waiting to be seen under fluorescent

lights and people coming to and fro. And yeah, it was so intense. The transition was just brutal. Mm-hmm. I'm sure. I'm sure. What about one piece of news you missed that while you were gone? something that shocked you, whether it was like a celebrity did something or like there was something

that happened in the world. I didn't get any of that, but California was on fire. Like near my hometown paradise, California burned to the ground while I was up there. And that's, you know, an hour from where I grew up. So that was really intense. Totally news to you, obviously. Like that's like you're getting all that at once. Like when you get out, do you just start peppering people with questions?

Like what the hell happened the last 74 days? No, you don't, you don't give a shit. about that honestly you're just like yeah it's for me at any rate I didn't um you know I'm sure it's different for people who have who have families and partners and that kind of thing but you know like I didn't I wasn't going back to any of that so I have people that I love I have close friends but there was no one that's so close to my heart where I like had to know what was happening with my kids or with my that's a strength I mean that's a strength out there like like we do okay this is the long as I'm outside I'm outside for like eight days on kill a majority

because we do we go to Tanzania for the water stuff and and there's no cell service you got a sat phone you know which I abused to check on my two little kids because I'm just paranoid I could never be away from my two kids and my wife Meg I mean obviously but the kids you just all hours a day you're like what's going on with them right now something that was totally my strength if I had had as much food as Jordan I would have won because Jordan had two toddlers at home you know like Jordan like missing his kids' birthdays and he kept thinking about Christmas and missing Christmas. And he was like, I think I'll have to go home for Christmas. I didn't have anything like that. So I knew that things being equal in terms of resources, I, you know, I had a really good chance. But yeah,

so when I came out, I didn't want news. I didn't want to know about it. I knew that I had enough to deal with just with the reality right in front of me. And they actually, they don't let you have access to news. Like I didn't get a cell phone or a computer until the day I left. So for, you know, two weeks, they kept me cut off on purpose and I was grateful. Psychologically, that's a, that's a precaution. Yeah, that's a precaution that they do on purpose. And some people were pissed about it and really wanted all that and wanted contact. But I was like, thank God, thank you, save me from myself, because it would not be good for me to dive in to the greater world right now. Wow.

They do that more now than they used to. They used to just let people go. You know, Megan from season three in Patagonia, they just brought her to a coffee shop for her first meal. And she made herself so ill that she lost a ton of weight after she got out. She was poor her off after eating food again than she had been out there because they didn't know how sensitive people are. Like they learned through letting people. The hard way. threw themselves up.

Yeah. I mean, it's intense. that's an extreme precedent that doesn't really exist. I mean, it's wild. What's next for you? Because I mean, I see the buckskin revolution stuff. I know that you've kind of done, you have aspirations of maybe having a physical school at some point. I mean, my, yeah, right now, I, like, I'm living out of my station wagon because I'm putting so much energy to my YouTube videos and my online courses.

And I'm working on two books. so I'm not having a lot of income come in so that I can work on these bigger projects. But I'm really excited to get those books out and published and be able to at some point afford to buy land where I can have physical courses there again. And not like to live in school. I've done that in the past and that just takes over your life too much. But I'd like to do like one weekend a month for a year, taking people through basics of things like ancestral skills and off-grid and homestead living. and producing and saving your food. I used to live off grid and taught a lot of classes

about year-round living from what you can grow and gather, living without refrigeration, all of that kind of thing. So, you know, all land-based living. And, yeah, that's my goal. So I am even considering turning buckskin revolution into a nonprofit so that I can take donations more easily towards that. But yeah, just finding ways to support myself with my passion

and to get these skills out to as many people as possible. I used to just teach in-person classes. And now with the greater publicity I have through alone, I'm recognizing that so much of the world is so hungry for what I have to give and doesn't have access to it. I'm just trying to find ways to broaden that every way I can. So videos, books, online courses, as well as in-person teaching once I'm able to do that again.

Well, I will be applying to the school. Whenever it gets up and running, I think what you do is awesome. Terrific job. I know you probably hear it all the time, but it was pretty inspiring and positive. I thought you just carried yourself so positively. And you can check out Wanea at buckskinrevolution.com. And I know you've got a Patreon too, right? Yeah, that's one of the right now.

That's where all of my funding or the vast majority of my funding for what I do comes from. And Patreon is totally awesome because you get to be a, part of what I'm doing. So, you know, I'm doing exclusive content for Patreon folks. They're the reason why I was able to do my online gathering. They get discounts on all of my courses. They get Buckskin Revolution merchandise and a lot more access to me and what I do. So it's a really sweet give and take relationship where, you know, there's a lot of mutual support. My online gatherings, that's something that I just started doing because of COVID. And they've been amazing. So there's information about that on my website.

and also I have a mailing list on my website where you stay in the loop as my book projects get closer to completion and as I have new courses and stuff out. So, yeah, signing up for the mailing list and supporting me on Patreon are the best ways to be really plugged in, but I'm also on YouTube and Instagram and Facebook. Sweet. Hey, this is awesome. I know you didn't do it for the fame, but, you know, I think you can do a lot of great stuff with the notoriety. And so I hope you come back when those books come out and talk to us again on Greenland. pod so really appreciate it winning yeah yeah thanks so much Chris it's been great