Habits and Hustle - Episode 131: Dr. Uma Naidoo – Harvard Trained Psychiatrist and Director at MA General Hospital

Episode Date: August 31, 2021

Dr. Uma Naidoo is a Harvard Trained Psychiatrist and Director of Nutritional & Lifestyle Psychiatry at Massachusetts General Hospital. With a personal mission of learning what we can do instead of relying solely on overmedicating and over-prescribing, Dr. Naidoo assesses what diet, gut health, and our microbiome can do for not only our physical health but also our mental. Taking to nutrition specialties and being a cook, herself, she explores how our bodies may be able to work towards fixing themselves with simple lifestyle changes. It’s not baseless. It’s not anti-medicine. Her take is just one of concern, innovation, and personal control. Listen for a balance of science, medicine, health, and diet in a way no one else can do. If you’re looking for a specialist, here she is. Check it out. Youtube Link to This Episode  Dr. Uma’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/drumanaidoo/ Dr. Uma’s Website – https://umanaidoomd.com/ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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San Antonio, Texas. Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habitson Hussle, Greshet. Today on Habitson Hussle, we have Dr. Uma Nadu, who is the author of the best selling book, This is Your Brain on Food. She is literally the world's first triple threat in the food and medicine space. A Harvard trained psychiatrist, a professional chef graduating with her culinary school's most coveted award, and a trained nutrition specialist. She really has it all.

She has been considered Harvard's mood food expert and has been featured in a ton of media, including the Wall Street Journal, group, Healthline, NBC, and the list goes on. Please listen to this episode in its entirety and learn about how food affects your brain and everything else in between. I loved this episode, enjoy.

It's really great to meet you. I'm a huge fan of yours. Thank you. You'm a huge fan of yours. Thank you. You're like super woman. Your credentials are unbelievable. I've never met anyone who has a triple threat. You have everything. And usually you have guests on who have one of those modalities.

And you would literally have all of it. So thank you. No, you're welcome. You're what a Harvard, Iatrist, actual professional chef as well. Yeah. Yes. Professional specialists. I mean, wow, you're amazing. Thank you. Thank you for that. I love you. I love you. Where can I love your setup? It's cool. Thank you. You know what it is. I'll tell you what this is. Normally, we do the podcast on treadmills. Wow. Okay.

That's so cool. I know people keep on asking me if it's from the game of Thorns or something because it looks so crazy. Awesome. So that's the thing. So no, it's just basically, I have nowhere else to do this. I have two kids on Zoom. And since everything now is this way, on virtual, or Zoom, squad cast, I have to kind of put my new office, so to speak, right in front of my old office. It's all of this squad step space for rem for romance, but I'm trying to make it work. Absolutely. Where do you live, by the way? I'm counting New York, but I live between Boston and New

York, but I'm based in New York mostly these days. Oh wow. Okay. And so you, because I mean, at the beginning, we'll do a proper intro, of course, but I just want to get right into it with people because, you know, I get so excited when you just come on and especially you, who I feel is just like I said, like such a role model, I mean, like, are you, first of all, if you're, you call yourself, you're a nutritional psychiatrist. Now, are you the first, or do you create that segment, or are you just the only one who does this? So, I think there's probably one other recognized person in the US, my colleague, Drew Ramsey, who's done it in sort of a private practice model. I think of what I did

was that I brought it into mainstream academia. So my mentors at Mass Journal and Harvard were testing Omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, magnesium, folate, you know, for decades. But really one nutritional psychiatry does is puts it together for people into a nutritional plan. And integrates in my book what I felt was necessary. So two things, in my book what I felt was important was bringing together what we know nutrition science does change all the time. So that people could be guided to use food in nutrition as a tool. But the other component besides the fact that that hadn't been done in that way before was that beginning the clinic at Mass General was significant because it really was getting

the idea into academia. And having them recognize that, well, this is worth building a clinic on. And I think the book is brought a lot more visibility in the clinic, but I think that there's real hunger that people have to find more ways to feel better, because we know that medications just already take us and research is bad. now that medications only take us so far, including therapies with, you know, which I'm a big believer in.

Which is amazing, because typically you think of a psychiatrist as someone who just prescribes meds, right? Like that's the way it's turned out to be, you know. It used to be that way when Freud and the analysts were around, but that's how modern sort of modern day medicine has made it and, in short, certainly, has made it that way. But I think that the more times we can involve a holistic approach that has the mind-body connection and and really mindfulness, they come really important to all aspects of mental loving. Well yeah, because you can't make money off of food, so to speak, right? So they would be pushing all the drugs. Now, you know, what's interesting to me is that you're, so you've actually helped

heal people. You're really about the mind gut connection and how the mood is affected by that. And can we first start by, I mean, with the vagus nerve, what is the vagus nerve for people who don't know? Sure. So the vagus nerve is the 10th cranial nerve and the 10th, it connects the brain to the gut. It's this mychal nerve. And what I like to call it is a two-way superhighway, because it's find directional flow of chemical messages from the gut to the brain and the brain to the gut. It's significant because it works all the time and it really helps people understand that there is this real connection. But then people also need to understand that the gut and brain arise from the exact

same cells in the embryo, the neural crest cells. So, you know, people don't initially think, oh, these two organs are connected, my brain's up here and my gut's down here, but they actually start from the same cells. You know, then we also, for times of, of all the pandemic really want to be mindful of the fact that 70% of our immune system isn't a God as well. And I also, I'm sorry, it's all a system, it just you know, it's all a system that modern medicine tends to make me siloed. Absolutely, I mean, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I wanted to add that I also read recently or heard of the podcast. Maybe it was with you about how mental health is basically like one of the biggest drivers

for life loss or disability, more so than even heart disease. And now I imagine with the pandemic and everybody feeling more isolated, the depression is up, anxiety is up, I mean, you know. Everything is up and the CDC reported that 11% of Americans considered suicide during the pandemic, which as a psychiatrist is a very frightening number and it speaks to the depth of despair that people are feeling and maybe not unable to share. And in my opinion, clinically, I think that the silent pandemic is the mental health crisis

because we're talking about the vaccine, we're talking about how to be safe for COVID, but no one's talking about how people are managing with isolation, being separated from families, or even those with their families as different levels of stress, financial stress, school stress, meal stress, that they're experiencing on so many levels,

we know that we know from surveys that different types of abuses increase during the pandemic because of confinement and people really being in quarantine with people who are abusive. And then drugs and alcohol are on the increase because there's boredom, there's suffering, there's, you know, again quarantine and inability to go out and see friends. So many people are just sort of, you know, just drinking more and I value

any patients where, you know, people are talking about having most of a bottle of wine and dinner and ordinarily, you know, that would be maybe a Saturday evening for someone. But now this is a matter of times with people. And because of this almost lack of boundaries that the days and the pandemic has, people don't know whether it's Wednesday or Sunday. Sometimes I believe that they're having a bottle of wine. It is. And it's about to help understand that. Wednesday or Sunday, sometimes I would say that they're having a bottle of wine at this.

Oh my God. And it's about to help understand that. So, you know, I'm not judging them. I just think it's really hard for people right now. Oh, absolutely. Now, would you say that like in your practice, you combine, like, are you, like, you're not saying, or maybe you are, I don't know, but that, you know, foods, because obviously the book is called, this is your brain on food,

that you can replace medication with food or the combination together is what really is the secret sauce. It's either the combination, so I still prescribe medications for some individuals, but what nutritional psychiatry does is it's really the an augmentation. It's an additional strategy for someone who's taking medication. So I've had individuals use nutritional strategies and be able DSM-5 just does not capture every single person who has, let's say, some type of mental distress.

The categories just don't capture everyone, and there are many people with a touch of anxiety, but also, you know, some problems with focus, and there are many, many cases like that, and I find that those individuals, if they're otherwise functioning, and they have the willingness, the ability, but really the energy to say, well, I'm going to try this plan. They can actually get around taking medications and be perfectly fine over time, but it involves being consistent, not expecting overnight success, and being safe enough to manage without a medication. And there are those who are too severely depressed, who really do need to start with the medication and work their way from there.

The amazing thing though is even if someone's being prescribed, then you aren't had a person, it doesn't mean they can't eat differently. If they're taught, in fact, they educated a head of time about how to use these strategies to help the fiber in your gut, to eat plant-rich polyphenols, to eat omega-3 rich, fatty fish like summons. Then they have the tools going into that versus just facing the side effects, which is usually how medications work. You go from diagnosis to medication and then the side effects. And hopefully in that, there's some relief sentence. And so you kind of, from your book, I read all about the fact that you kind of got into this whole, this blend of nutrition and psychiatry because of your own

health and your own experience. So can you kind of talk about that a little bit and psychiatry because of your own health and your own experience. So can you kind of talk about that a little bit and how it kind of evolved and came to be? Absolutely. You never intend to be your own patient or to be your own case study. And somehow life teaches you great lessons. And so I was pretty healthy, you know, I was pretty healthy,

not noticing any changes. Probably I would, and I have said this before, I think that my stress level, I was growing my clinic and really interested in the work I was doing, but I was busy. And I think the one thing that had changed is my levels of stress. And, you know, unfortunately,

by chance, while on on vacation discovered this lump. And you know, the blessing of being or having access to excellent medical case, that things move so fast. So it's almost as though my body went through all of these tests in, it is super fast way. But my mind was still in shock. And so then seven days, including a weekend, I was beginning treatment. And I think that what occurred to me in the morning of my treatment was, I'm fortunately not a person who has anxiety.

Like, I don't, you know, I empathize with people who do, but I hadn't been a person who would wake up feeling anxious. That morning at my first treatment, I was incredibly unhinsh and feeling, you know, what was I, and she has the problem. I knew all the side effects that was going to face. And that was the scariest part for me. And it really was a very central moment in how things changed for me. I think made me realize that I was advising people and counseling people and studying

this and researching it. Why wasn't I just trying it on myself? Because I was thinking about the side effects of the medications and not what can I do to improve hard feelings because I was unusually anxious. And that's really when I decided in that moment right there, and that became the attitude of how I was going to handle treatment. You know, I was going to do everything I knew and up my game in terms of how I was eating, what I was drinking, how I was managing myself in order to feel better. And I have to say that I didn't know the result and that, but my doctors were always stunned that I had virtually no side effects.

I went through treatment with obviously the things that you can't avoid, the chemotherapy and the effects of chemotherapy, but for, so for example, I'm saying, there's no way around the chaos. But that part is hard. But to not have the side effects of people suffer with was quite amazing, and that to me was a feat.

And it taught me the power of how you really putting it into practice and looking to see how your body would respond. So really inadvertently became my own case study, but it was, I think it was good. It was good in the end. It taught me so much. And it humbled me because you always, it's so powerful to have a prescription pad, you know, and to write prescriptions and someone leaves your office in my early career, that was what we were trying to do. But I always had the side of myself that had been raised in a very holistic, you know, in a family that was holistic, that had doctors and I have had practitioners and they had talked about the mind-body connection, they had focused on eating healthy and eating delicious food.

So for me, there was that gap of how do we bring it together for people and hopefully we are getting closer to more for holistic, integrated and functional model of care that doesn't you know, just use the power of prescription pad and makes the person receiving the prescription actually not feel that they're in control. It really takes away a lot of autonomy and of course, you know, prescriptions are needed in many cases and can be life-saving, saving. But sometimes it's good to know both sides of that. I think when you're a patient, you realize. Absolutely.

I can imagine. I have so many questions written down here about all the different types of mental, not I wouldn't call it an illness, but like just things that happen mood disorders, like we call it, anxiety, depression, brain fog even, which is not even, or like cognitive functioning. And I want to know from now, I feel like everything becomes a fat, right? Like, intermittent fasting is a big thing. The keto is a big thing. It's all kind of pre, it's kind of repackaged from like,

isn't the keytos similar to the Atkins Diet Back when? Right? Like, it's so confusing and overwhelming. So, when I notice a lot as people are doing a little bit of everything, so they're combining everything and getting no real effect, right? Because what would you say? We'll start with the overarching

and then we can kind of like, whittle it down. Yeah. What do you think, we'll start with the overarching and then we can kind of like whittle it down. What do you think of the intermittent fasting, the ketogenic? What do you think is the best, most effective diet plan for overall health? Absolutely. So let me just stop by saying that I think more and more that we understand and got microbiome, we know that it's like a tamper and to each of us. So I've had, I've treated a woman several months ago who happened to come in with her adopt daughter.

They were talking and I'm saying the history and they had an opposite reaction to the same healthy food. So we can't even assume that a healthy food is going to just be great for someone. That also speaks to the personalization of what we need to be doing in the old nutritional psychiatry. That being said, based on the research and based on what we know, there are certain patterns which have definitely emerged. Plant rich diets, fiber fold diets, plants of which in polyphenols,

antioxidant, anti-inflammatory foods, and then things like beans, nuts, seeds, legumes, healthy whole grains, or braille brink fiber, as well as plant-based omega-3s to the gut. But we also need protein, and we need healthy fats, so proteins of choice, things like salmon. It could be a type of meat that you eat, it could be poultry. For me, it's much more the source of the food than whether someone should be vegetarian, vegan or carnivore. So I consider myself diet agnostic and what I eat really doesn't matter because I've got to be able to help a person who's carnivore or vegan or anyone, anyone, everyone in between know it because I've got to be able to help the person who's carnival vegan oil, anyone, anyone in between.

And what I've found is that people who find the balance for themselves, of course, they enjoy eating, that they tolerate, but with those elements of paying attention, one in ten Americans eat enough vegetables, and they die. That's a pretty low number, so it's sad. And most of us, you know, eat way below the amount of fiber in our diet. And part is not, you know, the orange supplement that our granny's take, it's, you know, it's actually

in our food. It's supposed to be something that we eat. And we now know that it's so important to nurture the gut microbiome. So I agree with you. There are, you know my vacation's always coming in with the newest fad or what they read in a magazine of newspaper.

I think that where I'm at in this process is I think that we need to be paying attention to a few things because of our metabolic health. And we know that the pandemic has shown that individuals that preexisting conditions are ones who are suffering either from death or in fact severe side effects or longer term problems. And with one, what is the basis of some of that? It's how we eating because it's metabolic disease. And with people, you know, with levels of obesity being so high, with pre, people being

levels of obesity being so high with pre-dibedic or almost many having type 2 diabetes. Metabolic health, which is really what we need to watch for is insulin resistance, oxidative stress and inflammation, other things that you really want to break that cycle. So my ultimate answer is to be careful about a metabolic health. And what does that mean? Be careful about the types of carbohydrates you don't have to exclude them. They're very important act when you're cring. But be careful about the types, especially if you're struggling a little bit with your weight. Combine that with healthy fats from the right sources, you can plant-based protein, you can eat animal protein, the source matters. And a diet that's really rich

and abundant in plants and so fruit vegetables and plant-based proteins as well. So that kind of balance, it's not a keto diet and it's not the pure Mediterranean diet. It's almost some sort of combination of elements of being careful about carbohydrates because you know there's nutritional ketosis which is really allowing your body to still have carbohydrates but the right kinds for your body and allowing your body to burn alternate sources of fat. And I think that that's very, very different from the way that the ketogenic diet is discussed in the media or how people understand it.

And that's what I mean about combining a plant which died, being careful about carbohydrates, eating healthy fats, and then deciding on the proteins you want. Someone could be vegan in eating and be eating soda, diet, soda, and chips. That technically could be vegan. In a similar way, someone who's kind of could also be eating in an unhealthy way. So I think it's about finding what that bright mix is, finding what your body tolerance based on your unique gut microbiome and really not solving one rule, but integrating elements of what works in different, we know for example, that Mediterranean diet, really you set the high notes in studies

of depression and anxiety. So it's a good basis to have, it's a good starting point to have. For example. Yeah, you did talk about the Mediterranean diet. Like, down to me that that was the diet of that, like, that you would say would be the starting point to have. You did talk about the military and diet. Down to me that that was the diet of that you would say would be the best one to look at as a role model, so to speak, to kind of face your diet on.

Absolutely. Because of all the things that it kind of includes and involves. So who, okay, so then let's go through a bunch of stuff. So, like, what is the, for brain fog, cognitive functioning, things like that. What would you say would be the best foods to help with that for focus? I mean, we all read about blueberries and wild salmon.

Is there anything that we haven't heard of? That's like, oh my God, that's completely unique. I'm going to conclude that. Yes, so some may be that I showed that there's a very powerful antioxidant called luteerlin. That's found in things like fresh peppermint leaves, certain spices, like thyme, juniper berries, and several others, that actually help with brain fog. So adding those two is soup, adding those to a tea. Actually can help to lift brain fog. With cognition, there are a list of foods and the way that I divine up my book is these chapters, but you can kind of be the chapter that's most appealing to you. And there's a list at the end of foods to embrace, which is really intended to be much longer than the foods you have to avoid. So cognition thinks spices like cumin, the pinch of black pepper to make it more bioactive

actually has shown, has been shown a number of studies to help, but then you go into individual foods. So there are things like that that are slightly unusual like saffron, a spice that we don't use much of, actually shows a lot of good evidence for improving depression. But that's one of those circumstances where we don't eat enough saccharine and not diet. When we do cook, or that we only use a few strands, it's also so big, expensive. That could be a plate that someone could use a supplement that has saccharine. So, wait, that's interrupted, but I want to ask you two questions. So

why do you have, so is turmeric not effective if you don't include the black pepper in it or the bioactivity? Right, so turmeric has an active ingredient called curcumin and curcumin becomes bioactive and more available to the body. When it's either combined with black pepper, which contains a substance called cookering, or if you use it in a healthy fat. So either of those processes makes the tumor really, what you know, my feeling is why not get the best benefit and have it be by available,

if not really not getting as much of a benefit from it. So, I just told people to add in their black pepper with the truants, a pinch of black pepper with chimichur, so you can grind some in to your spice char or just remember to add it in when you're cooking. Blazing deals, boundless options. Its hot grill summer at Whole Foods Market from June 14 through July 4. Fire up the grill with quality cuts at the best prices. We're talking animal welfare certified meat. Check out the sales on Bone-In-Ribb, beef

cababs, and New York strip steak. Round out your barbecue with plant-based proteins, slice cheese, soft buns, and all the condiments. Plus, sales on fresh strawberries, peaches, and more. Don't forget to pie, either. Get grilling at Whole Foods Market Terms Apply. This episode is brought to you by FX is the Bear. The hit series returns with Jeremy Allen White and the Golden Globe-winning role of Karmie. He and the team will transform their family sandwich shop into a next-level spot, all while being forced to come together in new ways as they confront their past and reckon with who they want to be in the future.

FX is the bear, all episodes now streaming only on Hulu. So is there a difference between the ground turmeric and actually fresh turmeric that you have to grind yourself in a juicer? Is there a efficacy difference? So generally the dried spice is much more potent than a fresh the fresh food. So what I say to people is because you know, Jimmy is a beautiful spice but it's also bright orange, it stains people's clothing, it's certain stains, chef's coat and counters. But you know it's up to them.

They can really spend that money on a really good organic brand and use the dry spice. But if they want to use the root, you know, you're putting it into a blender or however they'd like to use it or grate it out of high-bredable or cut it up, it could be okay too. But remembering that it does sting. It does sting. I had no idea that, so what I've been doing, because I would just, I just assumed that the fresh root would be so much more potent that I've been like basically staining, my husband's like so mad at me because I've stained all the counters, all my clothes, my hands are,

are orange for like, oh my gosh. I'm trying to get it right. And I'm like, and he's always like, can't you just use the dry? And I'm like, no, this is way better. And your talent is a matter. Well, you know, it just it just have all dried spices concentrate. So even if you would, by say fresh parsley, but you had, you know, dried parsley for a roast, you would just use, you know, you would also, you would use less of a dried parsley for a roast. You would just use, you would also, you would use less of a dough time for that matter. That's just the understanding of how spice is up.

It's not harm using the fresh food, but I caution people about it for exactly the reason that you, because then they don't get put off and they don't want to use it again, because it stains a white shirt. Yep, 100% sure. And then how about in terms of the amount? So I've read a bunch of stuff and in order for these spices like a turmeric or saffron to

actually be effective, you would have to use so much of it because the amount that we're using, a teaspoon here, a teaspoon there, I know it's probably accumulative over time, but how can these, how much do you really actually need for these things to take effect for your brain fog, cognitive function, anxiety? Yeah. So, with, with, with San Fron, that, that is really for the best benefits for depression, San Fron is better. And that's because we just simply don't cook with enough strands of saffron to make a difference, and they use to highly concentrate capsules in a lot of the studies.

With Chumic, you can start off with a quarter teaspoon and a pinch of black pepper and bulb your way up from there. It's pretty safe in terms of, say, a number of teaspoons depending on what you're making. And it does work over time, so it does accumulate. But you can, the range that I like to give people start with a quarter teaspoon and go to a few teaspoons in a day and split it up into a soup, a smoothie or a tea or coconut,

a stir-fry or a saute or your roasted vegetables. I think that it's pretty safe if you eat it and you, including it, is when people do strange things, it was a case report of amounts you can use. And for things like cognition, just adding it into a soup every day, or smoothie is just the way to go. And you don't need a ton. Start off with a quarter teaspoon and both are ways up from that. So how long does it take to kind of feel any type of real effect?

How long, like all these things I'm going to be asking you, is it like after a few months, your body will start to see a change after a couple of weeks? Like what would it be? So I think that with turmeric, it really probably is one to two months before you notice anything different. But yes, it's turmeric has other effects. It is an anti-inflammatory, it is an antioxidant.

It actually even has antiviral properties. So you're doing something good for your body if you're tolerating it and if you're not running into an issue with it. So my feeling with food and actually even the other nutrients or spices that we're speaking about is why not? And this you have a problem, have an allergy and intolerance, add them in because they're all going to build up towards your better health. Same thing with even changing a simple habit like the servings of vegetables are YouTube. So then we talk about anxiety because I feel like as you know we were speaking earlier especially with the pandemic I feel like that is at an old high as well. Of course.

I read in your book certain things like vegetable oils to stay away from artificial sweeteners. Would a sweetener be – would Stavia be considered an okay sweetener or is that still under artificial? So Stemia is natural. It was just found that in a lot of studies, it did worse in anxiety. So anxiety is a specific condition where you probably want to be a little bit careful with Stem here. You know, I think that a Rothruittal Stem here are relatively okay. You know, some people are no artificial sweetens at all. I think that most people want that taste. So I say to them, if they're really one use,

they just use everything in moderation. Just use a little bit, and there's a new one in the market called Alulose that is so far showing up some pretty good results. And I think that what people like about it is it actually looks like sugar. And so they can add it to baking. You know, they can add it to a little

bit of yogurt if they want to get that sweet, that sweet taste. So far, the evidence that we've seen in all your loaves is pretty good. But again, some people say, no, artificial sweetness at all. My focus is really that niche of mental health. So therefore, even those serious, you know, otherwise natural, it does wasn't exciting. So just be a little bit careful in that situation. I also like people to be aware of those foods to avoid because they actually have a pretty important category. Someone that I was treating, you know,

was, felt, was addicted to sugar, and in many ways she was. And so she gave up sugar and went from sodas to diet soda. And it really had a, she had a chandelier optic and anxiety for two reasons. Firstly, her body was physically withdrawing from all of that sugar and the second, which she was going to sweeten it, so that was driving her, you know, official sweetness in the dyed soda. So that just was kind of an event that was really not good for her, either physically or emotionally. So it's being aware of those things, or the fact that process meets contain nitrates. So those can drive depression.

These little things just to be aware of a process vegetable oils which are less expensive, so often fast food restaurants use them. So if you died, it is sort of largely fast foods, if you think besides the processing, out of processing, the use of the inflammatory, prone inflammatory process vegetable oils, the things like, you know, the people don't realize like fast food, clinch rice, have sugar to make them hyper-palatable.

And there's a recent study from February of 2021. So last month that was from the American Journal Clinical Nutrition that was really looking at the lifeness of the way that foods are processed are really made to be addictive because they are hyper-palatable and they have these processed ingredients. So these are the things that we do have to keep an eye out for. Oh, absolutely. I know I saw you talk about that one on somebody else's podcast about sugar and french

fries and, you know, people don't aren't aware. They don't know what they don't know, right? So they think they're like having a no sugar diet and they're going to McDonald's and having french fries. And it's also dipped in gluten, which is a whole other funny thing. So even gluten, though, gluten, you say is also the correlation between gluten and anxiety is very, very high. Exactly.

So the gluten, you know, I am careful about how I share this and it goes back to what we spoke about earlier because of the sort of fads that people go on and there's these assumptions that speaking in vegetarian or even sometimes gluten-free, that it's healthy, but actually a gluten-free package to processed food can have a ton of the wrong kinds of starches for you. So it may not have wheat, which is the glutinous protein wheat, but it could have tons of other high starch and high glycemic processed flowers. So the way I like to speak about glutinous really,

that it depends on what you tolerate. With people with anxiety, maybe a slow elimination of removing, say they, a person who eats just to turn off store more threads, that's something to think about. And sometimes a slow elimination will show that then anxiety improves. But that doesn't mean you have to demonize gluten because there are also other sources that you can eat and are more whole food-based sources. The ones that I'm always most concerned about, the kind of loaf of sliced bread that you buy, that if you left on vacation and came back,

it would be completely fine. And you have to ask yourself, why is it completely fine? Because it's filled with preservatives and added refined sugars and oils and stuff that unstableizes and all that, that keep it that way, that's preserved. And those are the things that are not great for pain.

And there's our metabolic health. And our metabolic health. So what is it about gluten? And though that causes such anxiety, like what is it? And I used to be told, you know, if you were a lot of, because I want to just kind of preface it with, I feel like a lot of times people cut out gluten because they think it's going to be,

it'll help them with weight loss or fat loss. And I would always say, well, unless you're a celiac, unless you have celiac disease, you know, you're able to eat it, but they'll say that, they'll say, oh no, I'm glucose or gluten intolerance. You know, they can't eat it. It's an overused thing.

People just keep on saying they're intolerant just because they want to use it as a reason to lose weight. To lose weight. It gets me confused with the diet was out there. And I think that gluten is not the perfect substance and part of that has to do with the industrialization of wheat over time. with the industrialization of wheat over time and the kind of wheat that goes into the products that we, you know, that are

made. It goes back to the form, the form of gluten, that it is. And so I think the people do need to be careful because gluten can be destructive to the gut in certain ways, et cetera, but again it goes back to the source. The other thing I would say about it is people often have a misunderstanding that if they start to eat products that are gluten-free, but then they go and is stored by a ton of packaged processed foods that are gluten-free, and that doesn't help them.

So there's that factor. And the way in which people give know, when people give up gluten, this view often will lose just because of how the body and the metabolism works, you might actually initially lose weight. But people don't always think it's real weight loss because there's a lot of water weight that's lost. And then you still have to work on the shedding the pounds that you have.

So it's a little bit misleading to people sometimes and that's why just cutting back you know eating more vegetables that that are pretty low in calorie and having you know more more fiber and you die from beans and nuts and seeds and legumes and that type of thing just a healthier direction for you to go, even eating a super healthy green salad with lots of colors from the rainbow, that's a filling meal that could have the different nutrients you need, and it's just much better than going in direction of, I have to be gluten free, that's actually over time, going to help you shed the weight, but also keep it off.

Right, long-term, long-term. What would you say would be the best foods for someone who has anxiety to really incorporate into their diet? So we come with one of them which is a little bit of chimmy, but not everyone. Chimmy right? It eats chimmy. It seems like chimmy is like the super power food, the super power side. It is good for everything. it's good for depression.

It does show up a lot in the different studies. But the other ones find them in de-rich foods. So having, adding those in, and then there are things like there are in Ayurvedic medicine, there are things like Ashwagandha that people don't usually eat it, but it can be in different supplements that they find. There's also super dark chocolate, so dark chocolate, extra dark, about more than 80% with no added sugars. extra dark about more than 80% with no added sugars is actually a really good good one because it is

firstly it's the pre-botic food because of the way that it's made and contains an tonin rich in magnesium and all of those things will help with anxiety. So just a square of extra dark chocolate will be helpful to a lot of people. And then things like eating or berries is my other tip. Because the blueberries really do help with both the fiber, the polyphenols, which are great for your gut, great for your brain, antioxidant and anti-inflammatory. And then there's a few more that you work through.

And including things like teas that are very relaxing, lavender, passion flour, which can be made into a tea, as well as cow milk. I really help for things like stress and anxiety. So then, wow, this is great. So then how about with kids? Let's talk about kids. Is the mental health in children?

Is it also obviously in an uptick now with all the zooms that people are so isolated? Are we seeing more ADD in kids? Do you believe in ADD? Do you think that's an actual thing? I know a lot of doctors think it's kind of just an overused. I think there's a little bit of both. I think it's over diagnosed.

I think we need to be careful before we pull up description pad out, especially in children. But I do see a lot of it. And I have to think that it's also related to our food system over time. And the more process foods that children are eating over, the more and the more process was that children are eating over, the more hypertrophy was concerted, the more unhealthy that our diet has become over, over generations, which lines up with the obesity crisis in children as well.

So how do we help our kids? What's some good tips that we can do to feed our kids? Because kids also will eat something if it's not, you know, if it doesn't taste good. So absolutely. And I think anything we have to taste good, if not no one's going to stick to that, how do you choice? Exactly. So do you have any good tips for us that we can kind of use the food that both have kids like me? Sure. Sure. I think part of it is we have to model the behavior, right? So if if you're an eye going for that type of ice cream after dinner, then that's what they see.

But there are there are ways to re, almost rework this far south. And some of it is replacing those crunchy salty snacks that they're looking for with healthy versions that you can quickly make. One of my favorite go-to's is either chickpea snack or spinach or kale chips in the oven instead of crunchy salty snacks that are processed. Because literally it takes 20 minutes, you add on salt, pepper, and maybe a spice that you like. It does a lot of avocado oil, takes 20 minutes minutes and it's a crunchy snack. You know, things like switching out the ice cream for, I make banana ice cream and it's really just frozen bananas. I will, you know, in my recipes, use a touch of honey but again in my equation.

I was going to say these recipes are very good actually. I'm going to use one tonight. The miso glaze salmon. is a very good actually. I'm going to use one tonight. The misoglay salmon. Salmon, no, sweet potatoes, absolutely. And so it's almost like taking what they like and finding healthier versions and making sure that they're there. Another one that they're like is having kinds of cut veggies, you know, in either interesting shapes or, you know, kids like Ansono log. You can do that with other ingredients that don't have to be a raisins which are very concentrated sugar, you almost have to think about ways that would be attractive to them, so almond butter, you know, with celery sticks.

And having what you know in your family, other favorite, almost replaced with a healthier version of them that they buy into and that they start to like. And then making sure that the foods you have, often say every foods have a ton of added sugars that we don't realize, like pasta, sauces and ketchup and things like that, salad dressing, even. So making just a two or three ingredient, venegrapin, having the fridge for the whole family. Having a large salad be part of how everyone is eating. And people, that's one of the bases of what we do when we add. And maybe the proteins, some families, one child is vegetarian, one child is vegetarian, whatever they're.

So ways that it can work for different diets and different family members. But almost subtly or overtly, maybe, just changing how the family is eating. And that's how kids learn. And of course, breakfast seals are, unfortunately, a big issue, because breakfast seals are highly processed and have a kind of sugar. So getting away from the habit that we've sort of grown up with is hard. It's not people to switch that out. It's very hard because also the kids see the commercials on TV and it's like, it feeds

everything, right? And so they want to see, they want to have it. It looks like the fun, cool breakfast. I try all of these things. I try to do this with my kids and at the end of the day It's very very difficult, you know, but it is hard. It is definitely hard and you know It's it's it's hard to change change your habit is difficult to know Where do you start? So I told you get that What I'm putting is one of my favorites, but oh, she a pudding. Oh, that's a good one difficult to know where do you start? So I told you get that. What are putting one of my favorites? Oh, chia pudding. Oh, that's a good one. I'm going to try that one. I haven't tried that one. I haven't tried that one. I'm running it down.

Because you can make it ahead. Make it ahead, you know, for the week and everyone can have a little scoop with rich in protein, rich in fiber. It has plant-based omega-3s. You know, use coconut milk, which is, which is healthy. And they topple with berries or, you know, use coconut milk, which is, you know, healthy, and they top it with berries of, you know, dark pieces of dark chocolate or whatever they want. No, that's great. I'm gonna try that one. What is your take then? Because I know you said, you also use it in the books,

so it can't be too bad, but the honey, because honey and popcorn are two things that are very, I wouldn't say controversial, but there's a lot of like mixed messages, because popcorn, it's corn, which can be, right, right, which can's a lot of like mixed messages because popcorn is corn, which can be, right. Right. Which can be problematic.

So with honey, my position on honey is that I use it only because it has other health benefits. And so I use it, but I use it in extreme moderation. And it's the one thing that, you know, say I made a recipe, one of the recipes in the book and say golden chai. that say I made a recipes in the book, and I wanted something, usually I tried to go the sweetness of the cardamom and sweetness of the cinnamon. But if you want a little drop in a golden chai of honey, that's fine, I really do mean a drop,

because the moment we start going from a drop to two tablespoons is when the whole problem begins with overly using, even in actual form of sugar. So I think that being mindful of that becomes really important. And I like to, because there's a lot about, sort of the corn industry and all of that, I say to people, can we find other ways

for those crunchy snacks that we like? You know, an organic, a can of organic chickpeas, rinsed and dried, and some fun spices. You can go in any direction of ethnic foods that you like, and crisped up in the oven. You know, can be an actually nutritious snack that you make at home.

And it doesn't take long. You know, and you don't have to, I'm not saying you have to buy the chickpeas and pressure cook them. You can buy a couple of cans of organic chickpeas, rinse them out and dry them and roast them. So it's thinking out of the box a little, but maybe for us to model more of that behavior until it catches on, and of course, understanding it's not gonna happen overnight. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running

on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. So then, so honey then, you're okay with in moderation. In moderation.

Right. But can it does it? So very little. Yeah. No, no, no, no, say that how does it affect your gut? Is it does it change the microbiome at all or? So honey, when, when, you know, honey, the reason I say little end in moderation is it's still broken down.

Right. As sugar. Right. So, so it, you know, honey, the reason I say little enemoderation is it's still broken down as sugar, right? So, so it, you know, the moment that you start to, instead of that drop of honey, start adding it back in in a big way, the whole, with the gut microbiome, those gut microbes want to be fed by fiber, those polyphenols from plants, lots of anti-inflammatory substances that we're eating antioxidant substances. Moment we go on that fast food diet with the sugar and the french fries and adding three tablespoons of honey to yogurt is when we start to actually feed the bad microbes in the

gut. And when they take over the good microbes, that's when you start to get inflammation in the gut and when they take over the good microbes, that's when you start to get an inflammation in the gut and that's when problems start for us. So it's about making sure that that gut environment and the microbes are healthy and fed the right foods. We were talking about the gut bacteria for second. I've, and you said this in the book a little bit or we read a little bit about if you had like a schizophrenic person who had, you said this in the book a little bit, or we read a little bit, about if you had like a schizophrenic person

who had a, you know, they got bacteria that gets a fronted person, what would happen if you took that, that got bacteria from a person who has schizophrenia and put it into somebody else? Would they not or would they have schizophrenia? So one of the studies that was actually pretty significant that was done was where they

did a fico transplant of the gut, you know, elements of the gut bacteria from individuals who had diagnosed schizophrenia, and they put them into germ-free mice. The germ-free mice do not have them. They do not have bugs in their gut. And the mice developed those symptoms. So I think that was very significant because what it told us it was being, it really was being, but remember, this was an animal study.

We also, with research, have to start somewhere. We can't always look at some of the brain tissue and youth reminds them for that reason. So that's why we start with animal models and work from there. So we do know that the gut is powerful and that there's a lot of almost one of a better word memory coded in the genes and in our DNA. Wow and how about the role of the amygdala, the fight and flight response? Can we talk a little bit? Can you talk about that a little bit? response, can we talk a little bit? Can we talk about that a little bit?

Sure. So, you know, the way that what we basically want to do is calm down our system. And that's where I feel like, not only is it not only about medications, food is a big element, but another thing is mindfulness. Breathing exercises the power of a deep breath, using apps to calm ourselves down, to feel like we can transport ourselves by listening to a sound and looking at something or doing say an alternate most breathing, or something, alternate nostril breathing, even a mindfulness exercise, if you meditate or you can help yourself get out of that state of panic, and it's really about working with ourselves to overcome the firing of the imager.

It's interesting how in the gut, you know when you have a inflammation, you have a lot of symptom effects if you have an inflamed gut, but when you have an inflammation, you know, you have a lot of symptom side effects if you have an inflamed gut But when you have inflammation in the brain, it's not really obvious, right? So how how do people know if You know how to kind of how do they become aware of what they need or don't need based on just if they have if they don't know You don't know what you don't know. So what's a good starting point for people?

Besides of course getting your book? Absolutely. So, the way we want to think about it is, some of the research in Alzheimer's has shown that your information in the brain, so brain information and your information is related to how we eat in our lifestyle. So, what we can take away from that is that I clinically what I've seen is that individuals have an uptick of symptoms on new onset of symptoms when they have a disruption of the gut which then looks back to that inflammation in the brain. So we know that we have to be eating

differently, working on our stress, practicing mindfulness, doing all of it in the system about the system in order to lower that information. So it's something we firstly want to be aware of, and then making sure we eat differently for that as well. If someone would come to your, so like someone who, but someone had inflammation, if they had OCD and anxiety,

I feel like those two are kind of,, if they had OCD and anxiety, I feel like those two are kind of, aren't they all somewhat connected, anxiety, expression? How do people could have, you know, touches of each, are different things and not necessarily full in, full in the checkboxes of a category in DSM-5, which is what we use, but very often people have parts of different conditions and they just not feeling great. Right. So if they come to your office and they have a lot of OCD and a little bit of anxiety, is

that inflammation in the gut, is that inflammation in the brain? What would be a diagnosis to get someone started besides, of course, tumor, which we know is like the secret power for everything. Sure I'm sorry I'm going to say how's the that what's the diagnosed? Yeah what would be a debt what would be kind of like your first what would be the kind of like action plans for someone like that besides I said turmeric because we know how much you love turmeric. Right right. So you know I talk about pollution mental health and some of this really I developed as a way to bring

these plans together really doing COVID because I knew that the book, my book, has the principles and them. And a good way for anyone to start would be to think about how can what change, number one, what change can I make right now today? You know, am I eating enough vegetables? Could I have some new berries in the morning with my cheer pudding? Could I think about what I'm eating instead of say a fried chicken sandwich from a take-out? Could I learn to do an oven-roasted chicken, oven baked salmon, or a fine plant-based? Maybe I have a good non-gmo piece of organic tofu,

a tofu or tempeh or not so that I can prepare home with some spices or however I'd like to have it instead of that safe fried chicken sandwich. So what can I do right now today that could up my nutrition game in terms of my health because I can tell you that if you make those changes, it's going to impact your mental health. That's where I have people start. It's going to be something that they feel they can grab onto and do. For some people, it's as simple as having enough water

in a day, because hydration really affects our metabolism, it then affects the nutrients that we need for our brain. So it could be as simple as that. But other people want to do a little bit more. So I have them start with a corner piece, a cornerstone, of what they're not doing. And can they start to change some of that?

And it becomes, really, is a matrix of building up these different steps. But I also realize that you ask me about emotional immunity. And the best way that I can explain that is that so we have we have our motions, we have our motions, could be more stressed, could be our mood, being a little bit blue, sees the effect of the sort and the winter is hard. But we have faced a lot of this discussion and my book is really based on the gut-brain axis, but 70% of more immune system is in the gut.

That becomes really important to understand because we are also eating far better immunity. So people don't realize that red bell peppers are one of the highest levels of vitamin C more than citrus root. You know, adding those into a stir fry or smoothie, however you want to have it, becomes important because it's improving your immunity, but it's also helping your emotional health, because we understand that the gutterine connection, how we eat, impacts us gut microbes,

and so we want them to be thriving, and that's really where it looks back into impacting our motion and also impacting our immunity. Now, is there, that's great. Is there certain things that we should, I mean, I guess not stay away from, we should incorporate if someone does have OCD, I know we talked about, well Red Pepper has a huge amount of vitamin C, but what's just someone be looking for, what should they be kind of incorporating to their diet if they have OCD?

Sure. So they should definitely be starting with those good, we've talked about the pre-bondix, we've talked about the probiotics, starting with those. And then I think one of the things that I consider very powerful and have had very good effect within OCD has been being really cautious about where they find glutamates because glutamates can be in natural foods like mushrooms, parmesan, cheese or even tomatoes. But monocerium glutamate and other glutamates can be found in other foods and when you don't realize they're there, they're actually worse than symptoms. So I often start with an OCD with people really wanting to be aware of the things that they want to be more careful about because I find that a really drive symptoms, especially

where it's hidden. Right. I think a lot of the stuff like we were talking earlier, but the French fries and their dipped in sugar or have sugar, a lot of things are hidden. That's the problem, right? We don't know. No, we're eating that. And we don't know how we're eating,

and that's why going towards, as being with someone earlier, and she would just say, everyone just needs to come out process with us because we simply don't know what's going into them. And we also understand that that's hard. It's really hard to be able to do that. But I feel that we have to move from the standard American diet

as much as we can adjust ourselves in a healthier direction or push ourselves as much as we can do that we shouldn't. And any one of those changes is going to be better than the fast food franchise and kind of junk foods that a lot are diet. And then the things like trans fats have been associated with behavioral aggression in clinical studies. So, you know, there's no denying these effects anymore. We know the evidence is that it's how do we walk ourselves back from what we're eating to

to a healthier place. Does it matter timing of food? Like at the beginning, we're talking about the keto. I also think I kind of mentioned the intermittent fasting. Do you intermittent, is that something that you do? What do you think of that whole thing? So you know, I think that there's more and more emerging evidence. Certainly there's positive benefits for physical health with intermittent fasting and fasting, you know, mummicking diets and those different kinds. I think that it

a depends on the person because everyone's response is different, b, we're knowing and learning more about the impacts on mental health. Some of my patients who have used it and I always say, only do that under the instruction of the doctor because you don't want to get yourself sick. You don't want to fast too many hours, you want to be discussing this with the physician. But people have noticed an improvement in brain fog, more clarity and focus. But I think that where I'm at with it is I feel like the evidence for mental health is still cutting out.

But there's really good evidence for physical health, for sleep, for hormone balance, for circadian rhythm use, and really helping us be in a better state of mind because of using fasting and interpreting fasting to our doctor. And people start up with a 12 hour overnight fast and then have breakfast and then build up from there. Breathe in, breathe out. Get dressed, head out, grab some friends, camp out. Get hyped up, vibe out. Take your Dean, let it all out. That RRICop, we're here for all the outs. We want you to spend more time outside our doors and in there. Try it out, check out, think it out.

RRI co-op, all out. Visit RRI.com. Yeah, I mean, I was just so curious because I know everybody who comes on here, every single person is intermittent fasting, I feel like I'm the last one to join the tribe. So I wanted to ask you because if anybody knows, I would think you, I would trust. I think there's a really a lot of good evidence

for doing it, but doing it the right way. So the intervals, women, it's like a different for men. I think that there's definitely a place for it unlike, you know, what I would consider to be more of the the fats that are going, I think that there's a good amount of medical evidence and signs behind what's being done on interfaithing fasting.

So what I just don't know enough of yet is where it will take us in terms of mental health. Got it. I have one more question I think and that's basically I'll let you off. I'll let you go. I know obviously it's about having the food source but in terms of supplementing which are take on supplements. I mean besides of course like I said you obviously having the real food but sometimes like you said for staff, for example, That's a great example of when it's needed. But the other one is another important one.

Many people will supplement for the mega three fatty acids, plus eat it and they died. You know, I think that magnesium can be super helpful for anxiety, but you can also get that through food. So my principle is, I try to work with people around their diet first. So changing into healthier habits, moving from that standard-making diet, why? Because I know that that's going to start to fall in nutritional gaps that they have

because they've been eating a poor diet. But the reality is we don't lead a perfect life. We tend to have a lot of stress. We may not be sleeping well. We have the source of our food. They're not perfect. We don't all grow our own organic vegetables and our gardens and black women eat them.

So it's hard. It's hard for the average person to do this. So I think there's a place with supplements. And I think it much depends on what you're not getting in your diet, checking with your doctor. Maybe you need to get some blood tests or not. Or maybe you know that you're getting certain nutrients and not others.

So it could well be that you need to supplement to fill in those gaps. But I wouldn't start there because you really can't, just like you can't exercise out of a bad diet, you can't supplement your way out of a bad diet. So if you eat french fries from a fast food restaurant and their burgers every day, you know, taking the best mild environment and all those other supplements I mentioned is not going to do much. So people just need to understand that. So rather start to tweak your diet first and then fall on the gaps with supplements that you

may need. Absolutely. Thank you so much, brother. This was a real pleasure to have you on the podcast. It was great to talk to you. You have such a great knowledge and fountain of information. And the book is called This is Your Brain on Food. And I recommend it. Like I said, the recipes are like, I can't wait to make the salmon tonight and the sweet potato. The recipes are delicious. It looks delicious. It seems delicious.

I haven't made one yet. But people have liked them. And I think that the focus was really making them simple, not because people can't cook. Yes, because you want to make it accessible. You don't want salmon for too late. You just want to get some rose salmon on the table or roasted miso sweet potatoes or something like that.

No, and that's why I got to tell you. So many cookbooks that say come to me are people who have recipes, and they never really make anything. But when I went through this, it was. It was actually so there aren't very many ingredients. And it's kind of like dummy proof. It's really hard to kind of screw it up. So that's for me.

So that's why I'm like, oh my god, I'm going to make a whole meal tonight with this. So thank you. That's awesome. It's a pleasure to talk to you. I had to such great questions. Oh, thank you. It was a pleasure to have you. Where do people find you if they want to know more information on you and your book and

all the amazing work that you're doing. Thank you so you can follow me on social which is at drumma.ni.id. Oh, which is at Dr. Umanai. We're always putting out kind of research, the you know, new stuff that's coming out and sharing really educational tips with people to feel better. And my website which is you can subscribe to umanai.dmd.com, the book better. And my website, which is you can subscribe to umanidumd.com, the book is available through the website, it's also available on all major booksellers online and your local bookstores.

Well, congratulations. It's a really good book and it's a good guide also. So like you said, you don't even have to just kind of read it, you know, end to end. You can kind of go back to it and find what you need. And it's really, I really enjoyed it. So thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate hearing that. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'm Heather Monahan, host of Creating Confidence, a part of the YAP Media Network, the number one business and self-improvement

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the perfect gems of wisdom that not only inspire but motivate me into action. Her experience and personality are unmatched and I love her go getter attitude. This show has become a staple in my life. I recommend it to anyone looking to elevate their confidence and reach that next level. Thank you! I recently got to hear looking to elevate their confidence and reach that next level. Thank you! I recently got to hear Heather at a live podcast taping with her and Tracy Hayes and I immediately subscribed to this podcast. It has not disappointed and I cannot wait to listen to as many as I can as quick as I

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