Habits and Hustle - Episode 153: Dr. Breus Part 3 – The Sleep Doctor, Author of Newly Released “Energize!“, and Clinical Psychologist

Episode Date: February 1, 2022

Dr. Michael Breus is The Sleep Doctor, Author of Newly Released “Energize!“, and Clinical Psychologist. This is our third time having him on. What can we say? We love sleep and, I guess, so do all of you! This time around Dr. Breus is discussing his new book and Jen squeezes every new tip and trick she possibly can out of him. He explains how he can sleep for only six and half hours a night and be fully rested with more energy than he’s ever had. What foods to eat, when to eat them, and (spoilers) what teas to drink to knock you right out for the night. Everyone sleeps. We all need it. We’re all probably doing a bad job at it. You can’t not listen to this episode. Youtube Link to This Episode Dr. Breus’ Instagram Dr. Breus’ New Book, Energize! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get grilling at Whole Foods Market Terms Apply. Vitamin water's zero sugar just dropped in all new taste. It was zero holding back on flavor. You can be your all-filling. I'll play and all self-care you. Grab the all-new taste today. Vitamin water's zero sugar. sugar nourish every you vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass oh I guys is Tony Robbins you're listening to habits in hustle

Today in the podcast we have doctor. Michael Bruce, otherwise known as the sleep doctor. Now you guys, this guy is the leading person in the country when it comes to ways to improve your sleep. And now with all the information out of how important sleep is for your overall well-being, health, and wellness, there's no time like now to make sure that you listen to this podcast. He is one of these guys that really give you information that you can take and you can integrate easily into your life. We talk about sleep hacks, what type of sleeper you are, the importance of naps and that goes on and on. He has a new book out, he's written so many,

but his new one is called Energize, how to go from dragging ass to kicking it in 30 days. The guy is just great and I really hope you enjoyed this podcast because he's been on before and people really, really enjoyed it. They got a lot of out of it, so I'm happy to have him return again. So enjoy. Today on the podcast, we have one of my dear friends, indeed, right? And who's been on this

podcast many times, he's known as the sleep doctor. His real name is Michael Bruce, doctor Michael Bruce, but otherwise aka, as the sleep doctor. And I just said, before we even started, Michael, the sleep doctor is one of my most popular guests. He's been on, this will be a third time, I think. Yeah. Third time. People love talking about sleep, how they can sleep better. Absolutely, you know, it's fun because it's one of those

few things that everybody could kind of use a little bit more advice on. Everybody wants to know, hey, is there a tip? Is there a trick? Is there some other way to eat out a little bit more quality on. Everybody wants to know, hey, is there a tip? Is there a trick? Is there some other way to eek out a little bit more quality? And we've got a bunch of them. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that because he's got another book out and it's called, Energize.

It's called, going from dragging ass to kicking it in 30 days. And he wrote this with Stacey Griffith, who is a very well-known fitness soul cycle instructor. Yeah, she's one of the founding instructors at Soul Cycle. a very well-known fitness soul cycle instructor. Correct? Yeah, she's one of the founding instructors at Soul Cycle. And so, yeah, so you get kind of like a blend of sleep, a blend of fitness and diet. Exactly. It's kind of an overall program for energy, right?

Because our body is taking on energy and expending energy 24 hours a day. And so the idea behind the book was, can we give people something scientifically based that's simple to do that they can actually personalize a program just for them and the answer took a while, but the answer is yes. Yeah, because they also because you're all about the chronotypes. I am all about the chronotypes. I mean, about the body types. That's right. And then the blend together. Exactly. I mean, you get you get this amazing book.

So let's start with, okay, how do we go from being exhausted to then being energized in, you know, it is sound like my goal. Right, in three easy steps. So the first thing we have to do is figure out where our energy lies. So one of the first thing, no, people really don't think about energy until it's low, right?

So people are like, oh, I've got such low energy. I've never heard anybody complain, oh my God, I've just got too much energy today, right? Like, does that ever freaking happen? I'm pretty sure it doesn't. So we use something that we've used in the fitness world for a very long time called the RPs, right? So it's the perceived exertion scale, right? So ratings of perceived exertion by Gunner Borg back in the 70s and this is when you're

doing fitness exercises, how much exertion do you feel it's causing for you? And we're using that as a rating of energy. So we educate people in the very first chapter of the book about this scale and we say, look, we want you to just check in on your energy level five different times throughout the day. So once after you wake up, then once before lunch, once after lunch, once right before dinner, and then right before bed, just kind of giving a zero to 10 scale. So once after you wake up, then once before lunch, once after lunch, once right before dinner, and then right before bed, just kind of giving a zero to 10 scale. So it's pretty straightforward. We have you set alarms on your phone. So that way you can figure out, Hey, are there particular times during the day where my energy is low? Because those

are the times I'm going to attack to raise that up. But we have to figure out which type of energy is low because believe it or not, there are multiple types of energy. Right. No, I love that. And so, how do we do this? So, what's the first step of doing this? So, step number one, buy the book.

Do you like that one? Yeah, that's a great idea. Exactly. Step number two, step number two is really commit to this idea for 30 days, right? And so what we're gonna have you do is again, use this energy scale for about seven days. Once you've done the energy scale for seven days,

then we're gonna start to learn a little bit more. And then after that, believe it or not, we're gonna have you take another quiz. So you know how I am about my quizzes. Yeah, as we say all the quizzes with you, yes. I love the quizzes, because I always like to find out, like, what are you going to be and what does that look like? People love the quizzes too. People love quizzes.

Love. Absolutely. So we have another quiz. So this quiz is a body type quiz that's added to the Chrono type quiz. So you did mention Stacy's love of body types. And so body types, if people don't remember, like think back to high school biology, when you learned about the endomorph, the mezzo morph,

and the ectomorph. So for a review for some people who might not remember all of the high school biology that they should, ectomorphs are the long and lean people. Mezzo morphs are more of the V shaped people. Usually their shoulders are a little bit wider than their hips. I call them more like the athletic build.

Right, an athletic build. And then the endomorths are more kind of a rectangle-y build. So they kind of keep their weight on their hips around their backside, around the middle for guys. So these end up being when you start to think about it, have a lot to do with metabolism, right? And so skeletal frames are pretty easy to figure out, but the width and how you hang the meat on the skeleton

has a lot to do with your metabolism. So, I believe that the ectomorphs, and I've got the data to prove it, have a fast metabolism, the mesomorphs have a medium metabolism, and the endomorphs have a slower metabolism, okay? So now you start to think about this, and you're like, okay, if I take these body types, right? And I put them together with chronotypes, what happens?

So we actually did the study. So just to remind people what chronotypes are, if you've ever been called an early bird or a night owl, those are chronotypes. Well, go through it quickly because I don't, just in case people don't know. For sure. Yeah. This is like, this is when I don't, just in case people don't know, yeah. This is like, this is when I'm your core pillars. This is it, this is a pillar point. This is a pillar for sure.

Absolutely. Let's do it. So my chronotypes are, I renamed them because I'm not a bird, I'm a mammal, and I wanted to have animals that actually represented these chronotypical schedules. So early birds turn into lions. I mean, who wouldn't want to be a lion?

Oh, and that's my phone over there. Should we just let it ring? We can. Oh, we can just, uh, or just give it to you. We'll just turn it off for just a second. Okay. Sorry about that. That's okay. Everybody out there in the cat's zone. Everyone has a phone so they know. Everybody has a thing. Yeah.

So early birds turn into lions. And again, who doesn't want to be a lion? Lions are kind of my COOs of the company. They're the people who are really good at leadership roles. They're also the people that are kind of militant in their thinking. They go from step one to step two to step three, like Bing, Bing, Bing.

Very straight, straightly ordered. Very health conscious people, usually the alphas in the room, right? Right. Those are usually my lions. Again, they like to wake up around 4.35 o'clock naturally. I personally can't think of anything worse. Like the only thing I hate more than mornings are morning people. I'm just gonna get that out there.

They're just too frickin' chipper in the mornings for me. Well, I thought like, by the way, I would have at like seven o'clock, right? In the morning, seven a.m., six, 45, I thought that was early, but you're right. Oh no. It's like, that's not even like, that's nothing. That character needs these lions.

And so as you know, today is the day we're launching this new book. And I had to be up at five, 20 this morning to be on East Coast TV. So, and I'm a wolf and we'll get to that in a second, but you'll understand why it's been so painful for me today to have gotten up that early. So, I'm so tired.

So, lions really are an interesting group. And a lot of people wish they were a lion, but the truth of matter is, socially they have a problem. Dinner in a movie is out for a lion, because they've been up since 4, freaking 30 in the morning. Like they're exhausted. They're not interested in doing anything social.

So pros and cons to being a lion. That represents, by the way, about 10 to 15% of the population. Bears make up 50, 5, 0% of the population. So most of society is a bear. To be honest with you, I wish I was a freaking bear. Because it's so much easier. All of society works on a bear's schedule.

9 to 5 is perfect for a bear. Most bears wake up around 7, they go to bed around 10. So it really kind of works out well for them. These people have a tendency to be the glue of society, the people who get the work done. Usually fun, nice people, but really a majority of the people out there fall into this category. Next come the night owls or what I call wool.

So raising of the hand here, I am the wolf for sure. Ever since I was a teenager, I like to stay up until 12, one, two o'clock in the morning and I have no problems doing it. And I love to sleep later on in the day. What time do you wake up? So currently I have a whole story about how my sleep consolidated, but generally speaking, if I hadn't done some very specific things to consolidate

my sleep, my preferred time of wakinging would be somewhere between 7.30 and 8 o'clock. Easily. Oh, okay, 7.30, but you're going to bed like at one. Exactly. Exactly. That's not that different of a bear, though. No, it's not that different of a bear, but it makes a significant difference for things like going to work and your boss getting pissed off and stuff like that. True. True. So that's the wolf. And to be clear, all of these were around before I came along. People knew about the

early bird in the night owl. My contributions to the literature was I discovered an insomnia that fit into this chronotypical category. So for folks out there to remember, chronotypes are genetic. So I can go to a very specific place in your 23 and me data or your ancestry.com data. On the PER3 gene, there's what's called a single nucleotide polymorphism or a flip flop of the anatomical blocks that are there that create your DNA. That causes some people to go to bed later, some people to go to bed earlier. So this is all genetically based. I discovered one that was an insomnia

that was genetically based. Now by discover, I don't mean that I was searching through people's genomes. It was in the literature, I just realized that it could be categorized with these other three to increase the categorization from three to four. So now we've got lions who are my early birds, bears who are kind of in the middle,

night owls are wolves, and then insomnia are my dolphins. The reason I call them dolphins, aside from the fact that dolphins are kind of the coolest fish in the sea, is that dolphins leave uni hemispherically. So half of their brain is asleep while the other half is awake and looking for predators.

And I felt like that kind of represents people with insomnia who are like never quiet asleep. So we take these four chronotypes, we layer in the body types, how we did that was, I've had a million and a half people take the quiz. So we reached out and we said, does anybody want to take another quiz about body type? We had easily lots of people,

so we took 5,000 people and all of the sudden we started to learn so much more. Because we discovered, we started asking them their preferences for things like exercise and food and all of these different things. And all of a sudden we started to learn that we could take body type plus chronotype. So two genetic things, right? Your metabolic speed and your entire chronological system, put them together and it kind of unlocks all kinds of cool stuff.

Right, that's amazing. So then like, okay, so then let's start with like the mesomorphs, like in the middle, the athletic build. Yep. So someone like a mesomorph, do you go, do you say, okay, if that person's a bear, like me, that's the most basic, right? Bear, well, you know, and then we can kind of

kind of branch out after that. Right, so what well, you know, and then we can kind of kind of branch out after that. What does that mean? So what you do is you create a power profile. Right, what's the power profile? Because that's in the book. Right, so the power profile is what speed is your metabolism based on your body type and what is your chronotype? So what you're talking about is a medium bear, right?

So medium metabolism, because that's the mesomorph. And then bear is the chron because that's the mesomorph. And then bear is the chronotype that has the most likelihood because 50% of people are bears, right? So what is that in tail and how does that work? Well, we now know a lot of different things. So let's take a look at intermittent fasting. Now, I'm gonna tell you something,

and I think I said something about it last time we were on the show together, is I've been an intermittent faster for like five years. But I never followed the guidelines that the intermittent fasting people gave because I believe in chronotypes. Right. So I fast later because I'm a wolf chronotype and I discovered all of the sudden it works even better.

Really? Yes. So what happens? So what's your schedule then? What do you do? I'm so glad you asked. So in the book,'s your schedule then? What do you do? I'm so glad you asked. So in the book, we actually teach people how to create their own schedule based on these

two factors. So believe it or not, it's three times four. So there's quite a few different possibilities there. So is it the bear and the mesomorph? Well, no, not a lot of people fall in love. I can give you a general outline for it, that I think people will really enjoy. So first of all, I want to explain to people an easy way to figure out if you're an endomorph, a mezzo morph, or an ectomorph, okay?

So you take your thumb and your forefinger and you put it around your wrist. If you can touch, you're a mezzo morph. If your fingers overlap, you're an ectomorph, and if your fingers don't touch, you're an endomorph. So what's this? So you're an overlap, so you're an ectomorph, you're a leomorph. So what's this? So yours overlap. So you're an ectomorph, you're a leany.

I'm not. You are. That's no way. I'm telling you. Have you not seen my ass? I am not an ectomorph, honey. I'm not going to comment because your husband and I are friends is to whether or not I've seen your ass.

But what I can tell you is that your metabolism is quicker than you might imagine. And that's based on, and this is a well-known biological anatomical marker for ectomorph endomorphism. Really? Because, you know what, I grew up, always have no, like, I just have very small wrists. But it's not like in, it doesn't compare

to any other body type of lion, just because my bones are small there. I'm telling you, this is one of the most well-known anatomical markers that there is. Really? You're an ectomorph. I swear. Okay, then who would be a mesomorph? So a mesomorph is me, right?

So look, see, I can literally just touch. You are so far past it. Look at you. You can, you can, that's because I'm pushing it. All I'm doing is, you don't want to do it tight. You just want far past it. Look at you. You can, you can, That's because I'm pushing it. All I'm doing is, you don't want to do it tight. You just want to do it so like it is. So you've got lots of space there.

I'm telling you. Wow. Okay. So I would be a mesomorph. So once you just got determined which body type you are, ectomorph is fast, mesomorph is medium, endomorph is slow,

then you add it to your chronotype. So I am a medium wolf. You're a medium wolf, okay? I'm a medium wolf, okay? So now that you know I'm a medium wolf, now I'm going to figure out how and when to do my intermittent fasting. So when I do it is based on my wolf schedule. So that means I'm not going to start until much later in the day. Right. How long I should do this fasting versus feeding is based on my body type. So ectomorphs who are lean,

they don't wanna lose any more weight. So we don't have them fasting for long periods of time. So they'll fast for 12, feed for 12. This is only your starting point for people to know where to go because most people don't know where to start. For your mesomorphs, you change it by two hours. So mesomorphs, you fast for 14 hours, feed for 10 hours. Notice how I change that timing. For endomorphs, who do want to

lose weight more quickly, what do we do? We do an 816. And that's where they start. So it's very easy to now have some kind of understanding of where to start in terms of length of fast and length of feed and when to do it so that it's the most effective. So a lot of people are out there intermittent fasting, they're not doing it right. Right. Because they're not doing it. This is all based on genetics. Like, I'm not making this stuff up.

We've got research to show this really works. Right, right, right. And so your believer though, and like, let circling it back to the sleeping part, right? That if we intermittent fast, it would improve our sleep overall, correct? So there's actually data to show that it does. The data to show that intermittent fasting helps with melatonin production also helps with circadian rhythmicity. So having consistency helps breed consistency.

So eating on a consistent schedule makes the rest of your circadian system be on a consistent schedule. And if you match it with your chronotype, yay. Yeah, it's really cool. Even better, right? Right. So what if we don't do intermittent fasting, but we just tend to eat the same foods over and over again.

Perfectly fine. It's just all about the window of when. My book is about energy and how to increase your energy. One of the things that we know that has been reported from lots and lots of intermittent fasters, they've got more energy. Why do they have more energy? Well, there's this process called atophagy. So atophagy, remember, is when we burn through all the carbs, which is slow energy, and we

hit fat, which is fast energy. And so the quicker we can get through at top of G and get to that fat energy, fast energy, the better off we are. Well, you've lost a lot of weight, too. You look super lean compared. I mean, even last time you were pretty lean though, too, I think, but even more so. Yeah. I'm definitely, and I'm working out less, believe it or not. And I'm just really spending more time on balance and like figuring out what to do from a balanced perspective. So I stretch every morning.

So I can tell you my morning routine. I talk about it in the book. Yeah. So it's kind of funny. So I wake up every morning, we got a new puppy, by the way. I think, did I send you a picture? No, you did not. Moose.

Oh my friend. What kind of dog? Oh, so cute. So cute. So in the morning, our older dog requires medications. When I wake up, I give him his meds. And what terms at eight o'clock in the morning? So I wake up at 6.15 without an alarm.

I'll tell you that story. So I used to wake up much later because I'm a wolf. So she's looking at me right now, guys. You can see the eyes. She's like, she's like, what's going on with this fellow? So here's what happened is I started going to bed at midnight. I did an experiment on myself about three years ago, saying I'm gonna make my bedtime

as consistent as humanly possible and just allow my body to wake up whenever it does. Okay. When I did that, I was waking up at 7.37.45. When I kept it consistent within two months, I was waking up at 7.30. Two months later, it was 7 o'clock. I plateaued down to six hours and 15 minutes.

So by following my chronotypical bedtime, so I'm a wolf, right? So by going to bed at midnight, it actually consolidated my sleep. Blazing deals, boundless options. It's Hot Grill Summer at Whole Foods Market from June 14 through July 4. Fire up the grill with quality cuts at the best prices. We're talking animal welfare certified meat. Check out the sales on Bone-In-Rib-I, Beef Cabobs, and New York Strip Steak. Round out your barbecue with plant-based proteins, slice cheese, soft buns, and all the condiments.

Plus, sales on fresh strawberries, peaches, and more. Don't forget to pie, either. Get grilling at Whole Foods Market Terms Apply. So you're winding down with a podcast. Sounds like you have no plans to leave the couch tonight. Nope, you just want to unzip your jeans, slip on a pair of fuzzy slippers, and rip open a bag of skinny pop popcorn.

Because the only place you're going tonight is the bottom of this bag of popcorn. It's a whole bag kind of night. It's a whole bag kind of night. Wow, so if you just pick a time to go to bed consistently at that time, your body will naturally... If you're close to your chronotype, it'll work like a charm. If you're the opposite of your chronotype, it won't work. So if I had picked a time of eight o'clock at night to go to bed,

never would have worked. That's early. So our bear, like myself, because it says 10 o'clock for me, right? That's a little early. Like, I would go to bed at 11.30. Perfect. Go to bed at 11.30. But then, but that's kind of late. Like that's the other hybrids of this.

There are. We know that there are slow and fast. No, so what do we call them in the hybrid model? There are early and late bears. So you're a late bear. I'm a late bear, right? You are. And then it's always important for consistency

for sleep anyway, right? Exactly. So as long as it's consistently that you're a late bear, you're fine. Okay, so then that's fine. So then if they do that and they consistently go to sleep at the same time and do all those things, then what? Consolidation of your sleep schedule. You actually get more time in your day.

So I used to require seven hours and 45 minutes to sleep. Now I only require six hours and 15 minutes. I just got 90 minutes added to my day. And you feel the same, you don't feel. So I even checked my numbers with my aura ring, like percentage wise, and getting exactly the right percentages. Really?

Yeah. That's amazing. It's awesome. It's all about consistency of the circadian system. That's why the number one thing I'm always telling people is wake up at the same time every single day. Yeah, I mean me too. And I also even on the weekends, I wake up at the same time. Especially on the weekends. That's the most important time to do it being consistent. Wow. Okay, so then what is your the power profile combining your body type

and the chronotype? Okay, how about like, okay, how about brain fog? I know brain fog's a big one, right? For sure. Okay, so can you just kind of help us with that? Because if sometimes when you don't sleep enough, that's what happens. For sure. So there's really a lot of different components to brain fog stays. And we don't always know which ones we've got, right? And so some of it has to do with something called sleep inertia.

So when we're sleeping for a long period of time, sometimes our brain wants to stay asleep. And so it's hard to kind of clear those cobwebs in the morning. Yeah. That has to do with the continued melatonin production. Sometimes our brain wants to stay asleep. And so it's hard to kind of clear those cobwebs in the morning. That has to do with the continued melatonin production. So your brain continues to produce melatonin, which makes your brain want to kind of stay asleep. Easiest way to get rid of that,

even though by the way, you're awake and still wandering around, melatonin could still be going on in your head very easily. Sunlight is the best way to just turn the faucet right off. So my biggest recommendation, other than waking up at the same time every day, walk outside and get 15 minutes of sun. Yeah.

Number one, it's great for vitamin D production. That's about all the time it takes to get it. Everybody needs vitamin D. People are so, so, so deficient in vitamin D. By the way, I think it's 97% of COVID deaths or in people who are vitamin D deficient. Absolutely. Vitamin D is a, people don't even realize if you're living in a, even in California, you're are vitamin D deficient. Absolutely. Vitamin D is a people don't even realize if

you're living in a even in California, you're still vitamin D deficient. Absolutely. I take a supplement. Do you take a supplement? I do. I take 10,000 units units of D3 every day. 10,000. Oh, I take five and I thought that was a lot. Yeah, no, I take 10,000 every day. Who told you to take that many? My doctor. Really? That's because it can also, isn't there something about it taking too much? It's about absorption. Yeah. Well, you know, you can overdo vitamin D, but I mean, I'm not anywhere close to that. I've got, I know people who take 50,000 units a day.

I don't sure. Are they living in Alaska? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Why they do it at those levels? Because I didn't, they weren't my patients, so I didn't ask them, but there were friends

that do it that way. Does, if someone takes vitamin D as a supplement, instead of going outside for the 15 minutes, does that help with your sleep overall? So it will help with circadian rhythmicity, but it will not help with the removal of melatonin, because we need sunlight to hit your eye to send that signal.

Because last time you were here, we were talking about how melatonin as a supplement is not good. Not good. But yet, it's like a huge business. It's ridiculous. And people still think or people think that that is the way to fall asleep. The people think melatonin is a sleep initiator.

Yeah. It's actually a sleep regulator. Okay. It's a different. So a sleep regulator basically tells your brain it's bedtime. A sleep initiator makes you fall asleep, right? So those two are very, very different. So it's the difference between having an appetite

at certain times and being hungry. Oh, is that okay? So yet, why do people still, they are dependent on taking it before they go to bed? And do you think it works for them? Which is so ridiculous because 99% of people have plenty of melatonin on board. The number of people that have a melaton deficiency

is so small, it's remarkable. But if you do have a melatonin deficiency, which you can actually do an online test at saliva test, then it is worth taking it, but you don't need that much. 95% of it is sold in an over-doseage format. Most people are taking three milligrams, five milligrams, or 10 milligrams. The appropriate dose for an adult is between half and one and a half milligrams.

So then what, so, so how is it that people are actually falling asleep with it? Is it because they're just psychosomatic? Yeah, absolutely. So they're working. Yeah, so what would be, how about magnesium? I heard magnesium is also... So magnesium has got some science behind it. Magnesium has got some ability to make people feel calmer,

people feel more relaxed, and then a kind of lower anxiety and allow that natural sleep process to take over. So it's a very different animal. I would say magnesium is more likely to help somebody fall asleep. Melatonin is more likely to keep somebody asleep. But once again, most people don't have a melatonin deficiency. There is however one group of patients that you can use melatonin in fairly big dosages in and it works well and that's autistic children or any on the autistic spectrum. There's a lot of data now coming out that three in five

milligrams in those individuals can actually be helpful for them for sleep. Oh, interesting. Okay. So why did you guys decide to write this together in this way? So we were, we've been friends for a while and we were talking and she turned to me and she was like, my clients are so exhausted all the time. And I was like, are they sleeping well? And she was like, I don't know, but they're working out really well. And I said to her and I said, you know, some of my patients are exhausted. And I know they're sleeping well,

but they're telling me that they're still exhausted. And she's like, are they exercising right? And so we said, there's gotta be a crossroads here. So originally, the original title of the book was called Exhausted. Really? I think people would have really taken to that one. So then what is the correlation between the fitness

and the sleep? Because people say if you work out before you go to bed or when you work out, when I work out, I sleep better. Yes. So the data is very, very consistent on that. People who are regular exercises. And I'm not talking about your twice a week people. I'm not talking about your twice a week people. I'm not talking about three times a week.

Talking about five to seven days a week people, they sleep better than people that don't exercise that amount. Is it because they're exhorting a lot more energy or? So we're not 100% sure. We think it has something to do with just the entire system kind of continuing to reboot and kind of, you know, when you take a battery like your body battery and you drain it and then you fill it back up, it's going to feel better than if you're constantly doing one of these types of things, right?

Right. Right. So you, instead of getting the trickle of energy, you want to, you know, reboot, if you will. So we think it has, it could have something to do with that. It could just be the people who enjoy exercise are genetically better sleepers and that could be the reason why they enjoy exercise. You talk to some people who are sleep deprived, the last thing they want to do is exercise because it sounds so unappealing to them. Right. Is there a form of exercise that works better

than other forms of exercise? There is, depending upon your body type. Oh, here we go back to body type. OK, so let's go through that. So it's interesting, but when we look at endomoriffs versus ectomorps, we can see very easily there's certain exercises that some want to do and some don't want to do.

So endomorps hate cardio. Why? Because they're bigger and they can't be successful at it. And ectomorps hate, you know, doing heavy build muscle exercises because they're weaker and they can't throw around weight as much. It's kind of common sense actually. We think about that, right?

And that's why you see all these ectomorphs otherwise known as like skinny minis, loving the bar classes and the yoga classes and pilates, never like hardcore weight stuff. Exactly. So it starts to make sense. How about the mesomorphs? So the mesomorphs. That's believe I am, by the way. I really do. It's okay. Mesomorphs are great for everything. So mesomorphs are in the middle. Sure are. But it's good because you're in the middle, right? And so you're, you have the body type

that will allow you to do all kinds of exercises. You've proven that time and time again with your fitness career. Right. Right. Exactly. Except I hate, I hate Palat. I'm not I hate, but I don't love yoga. I don't love the bar. Right, but that would make sense because as you're saying, you're more on that mesomorphy side of things. Yes, exactly. So that would make that would make intuitive sense to me that that could be okay. Same as well. So then okay, so the what type? So if, so if the mesomorph is good with everything, the ecto is above. More on the cardio, stretchy, you know, pilates stuff, and the endos are more on the anaerobics,

so more on those types of stuff. So where does that leave it with a sleep then? So it depends on if they're doing, if so, the body type is doing the exercise form that works best for them. Yes. Then they sleep better. That is correct. And when they sleep better, they enjoy those exercises more. Right. And they stay more motivated because they're more successful because they keep reaching the plateaus that they want. You know, I wanted to ask you about staying asleep. I think that's a lot of people. It's a big issue. It's a big one, right? Because I think stress, I can, I have no problem falling asleep. But even as I get older, I find it harder to stay asleep.

So number one complaint is inability to stay asleep. And most people have a time. Like they're like, it's at 3.27. 3.27. Exactly. Between 2 and 3 o'clock, I'm up. You know? Right.

So one of the top questions that I get asked, something that we do address in the book, but I'll address it now for you and for all of your podcast listeners. Okay, thank you. How kind of you. So thank you for coming on the podcast and answering my questions. Well, I mean, it is your personal therapy that we're doing.

Yeah. That's okay. I think a lot of the book it relates. Okay. So the very first thing that people do is they look at the clock, right? And they know. And it's such a bad idea. Okay, dude do is they look at the clock, right? And they know. And it's such a bad idea.

Okay, dude, don't look at the clock. It's so hard not, you instantly do the mental math, right? And then you say, oh shit, it's three o'clock in the morning. I've got to get up at six. Sleep, sleep, sleep, and you try to sleep. Okay, so I've said this before. I'm sure I'll say this many more times. Yeah. Sleep is a lot like love. The more I'm sure I'll say this many more times. Yeah.

Sleep is a lot like love. The more you look for it, the less it shows up. That's a great, so true though, right? Right. So when you're out there looking for that person, you're never gonna find them, but when you just relax for a minute, that person wanders into your life.

Sleep is exactly the same way. So when you look at the clock, don't worry. Number one, okay? Because worrying is not elevating your anxiety is going to do no good whatsoever. Now, the next thing I'm going to tell you is there's this thing that I actually learned from Andrew Huberman, that is called non-sleep deep rest. So there's data on lying in a bed, we essence, lights off, eyes closed, it's still rejuvenative. Now it's not rejuvenative to the point of sleep, but an hour of that is probably worth about 20 minutes of sleep. So when you wake up between two and three in the morning, don't call me.

Don't worry, please. But you won't answer anyway. I probably won't. Look at the clock because I know you're going to anyway. Right. And then you can turn to yourself and you can say, Hey, number one, I've been down this path before and I didn't die, right? Like I'm nothing terrible is going to happen. So that's number one. Yeah. Number two, if I lie here for a little while I'm still going to get some form of rejuvenation and Dr. Bruce reminded me that that's still pretty good. Number three, if I relax enough and I can lower my heart rate, then I might be able to fall back asleep. So most people don't know, but heart rate is really the biggest determining factor. You want a heart rate of 60 or below

to enter into a state of unconsciousness. So once you've calmed yourself down and realized, hey, here's an opportunity to either practice some of that non-sleep stuff that that weird doctor guy was talking about, or just know that I'm going to be okay. Now you can try something called four, seven, eight breathing, right? So this was a technique that was developed by Andrew Wilde, used by Navy Seals. You breathe in for a count of four, you hold it for a count of seven, you breathe out for a count of eight. What this does is it helps you dump any excess carbon dioxide. People don't know carbon dioxide weighs more than oxygen.

So it sits in the bottom of your lung. So by pushing out eight, you dump all that extra CO2, you bring in a big breath, four big four count breath, for more oxygen, your heart has to work less. Guess what that means? Your heart rate goes down. Your heart rate will dump down to 16 about four or five cycles. So I tell people, look, do six or eight cycles of four, seven, eight

breathing. Remember, non-sleep, deep rest, and just chill. The other big thing is, if you don't have to go to the bathroom, don't. So here's the thing, many people will wake up in the middle of the night and they're like, well, I'm up. I guess I should see your life compete. No, bad, frickin' idea, okay? Because heart rate, right? You go from lying down to sit and to standing and walk across the room. Of course, you're gonna jack your heart rate.

So at that point, it doesn't make any sense. So if you don't have to pee, don't pee. To be clear, if you gotta go to the bathroom, go pee. Right. That's a good piece of advice. I out, that's automatically, when I wake up in the middle of the night, what do I do?

It just autopilot, I go pee every time. And you're saying not to do that. Not if you don't really need to. Now you're going to be thinking about me in the middle of the night. Yeah. I don't know if that's such a good idea. I know, right? Exactly.

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So definitely run, don't walk and scoop some up now. Habond in terms of food, I mean, is there things that I should stay away from before I go to sleep that will make me wake up that not even subcult, I'm like not even conscious of? So there's a lot of foods out there that can do some damage when it comes to sleep. But more importantly, there's some very pro sleep foods as well. Anything with the omegas, so any fish products, salmon, tuna, all those things, great, great, great for sleep. Believe it or not, broccoli is good for sleep because it helps detox caffeine faster.

There's an enzyme in broccoli. Yeah, steamed broccoli. That helps you blow through some caffeine a little bit quicker. So if you had a latte at four o'clock, you may want some steamed broccoli with your salmon. Yeah, the data's out there on it's pretty interesting stuff. I've never heard that.

So broccoli can help get rid of unneeded caffeine in your body. Yeah, it can help metabolize it. Tell me some other good little ones like that. Little nuggets. Yeah, little golden nuggets like that. So I'm gonna have to, I'll have to go through my, through my litany of different nuggets. Magnesium is a big one.

Firstly, we can get that through leafy green vegetables and things like that. But remember something, you get a frickin' bushel of kale and you still might not get enough magnesium because our soil has been so over-tilled. Right, and so magnesium, we don't make magnesium, we have to eat it.

So one of my favorite ways to get magnesium is with my recipe for banana tea. Oh, I guess, we don't make magnesium. We have to eat it. So one of my favorite ways to get magnesium is with my recipe for banana tea. Oh, I guess let's talk about that. And why do you think that's such a good thing to have? Do bananas help put the potassium in bananas? Is that it's potassium and magnesium. So most people don't know it, but we call bananas nature sleeping pill because it's loaded with magnesium. But the magnesium is not in the fruit. It's in the peel. So, what am I going to ask you to do? No, not back in high school when they said you're supposed to smoke banana peels. I'm going to tell you that you actually take a banana, organic banana. You wash it off, cut off the tip and the stem, cut it in half. Okay? All I've actually to do so far

is take an organic banana and wash it off. Drop it into about four cups of boiling water and boil it for about six minutes or until the banana turns brown and then drink the water. It's loaded with magnesium, phytosteroids, all kinds of things to help you absorb it. As my daughter likes to say, Dad, it's very banana-y, so you have to really like bananas, but it's really quite delicious. It's great for constipation. It doesn't interact with any medications. You can give it to seniors, you can give it to kids. I got one mom and she pours it into popsicle molds and gives it to her kids and they're out like a light.

Are you serious? That is a great tip. You've never said that before. Really? Well, banana tea. You asked for her to bring out some good stuff. I know. I want some new fresh ideas and you're bringing them, the broccoli, the banana tea.

Now now we're cooking with gas here. I love that one, the banana. And I always heard that bananas were very constipated. They can cause constipation. So because they're there of a super high glycemic index. So first people out there who were diabetic, banana tea is probably not the best idea. Right. But when you're only drinking the water that's got the, that doesn't have all that fiber in it,

it becomes, it becomes doing the opposite. It's not constipating. It actually does the opposite for most people. Oh, wow. Okay. Give me one more good food or tea. So for the diabetics out there who can't have banana tea, there's something called guava leaf tea,

not guava fruit, not guava's something called guava leaf tea, not guava fruit, not guava juice, but guava leaf tea. So there's at least one scientific study that shows that guava leaf tea helps keep your blood sugar stable all night long. So one of the things it's another issue of people who wake up in the middle of the night is blood sugar dumps. So if you have an eaten in a while, like let's say you finished your food for the night at 7, 8 o'clock, and you don't go to bed until 11, 30, 12 o'clock, what happens when you wake up at 3? Well, that's about eight hours from your last meal, I would guess, right? So guess what? The dinner bell's ringing in your head.

So being able to have something ahead of time that can keep your blood sugar stable, like this guava leaf tea could be helpful, or my final tip that you may or may not have heard, I don't know yet, is raw honey. Oh, raw, no, no, no, I don't think you said that one. So raw honey is another favorite. So, and you want it raw and you want it locally raw. All right, so this isn't the honey from the bear

at the grocery, okay? Go to, you know what I'm saying? Go to a place that's got a farmer's market or what have you with a local honey? The reason you want it local is it has all the particulates, all the flowers and the pollen are in it. So if you have allergies, you can start get used to it. One teaspoon of raw honey about a half an hour before bet, not if you're diabetic, go for the guava leaf tea.

But if you want, you can actually have this with your banana tea, if you really want to have something that's pretty delicious, but the raw honey is more difficult for your body to process and it helps keep your sugar stable all night long. So what I was gonna say that what I eat a lot of fruit, that's like my big weakness. Yeah, you eat a lot of sugar.

I eat a lot of sugar. So then if I'm waking up in the middle of the night, is it because I've had too much sugar? Can it be the also the opposite? I would say probably. I would curtail your fruit towards the end of the evening and start to see if that moves your awakening time or try the guava leaf tea.

Where would I even get that? It's on Amazon, it's all over the place. Yeah, it's just guava leaf tea. Guava leaf tea. Because the banana one, you can just make by buying a banana. Yeah, for sure. The brand I like, I think it's called DNA. For the guava leaf tea.

Yep. That's a very good tip. Okay, you always, you always talk about napping when you're here. I do. And you love your big napper. I am. And I'm working with a new product right now that's super cool that has all to do with napping. Really? Okay, you can tell me what that one second. I was going to say, if someone is a bad sleeper though, is it a bad idea to take a nap? Because, if you're a bad sleeper and you're napping, you're lowering your sleep drive and you're making it more difficult for you to sleep at night.

So for most people who are bad sleepers, I would say you wanna be steer clear of the nap. Now every once in a while taking a nap might not be a bad idea. For example, if you've got a big presentation. So let's say you only got three hours of sleep and you're already not a great sleeper, and it's really making you anxiety,

then I would say a nap is probably not the worst idea just before your presentation, but set an alarm because gosh forbid, if you go through the whole presentation asleep. So that could you have all these different forms of napping? There's a bunch. So there's the disco nap,

which is like a pre-game nap for folks out there. So many people may not even know what a disco is because they're so damn young. Yeah, and you're so old. You're dating yourself right now. 53 years, I'll be 54 in February. Really, you look great though.

Thanks, I appreciate it. You look great. You look great. You look great. Well, yeah, well, you couldn't tell. You're doing an amazing job looking youthful, a sounding youthful, a fact-tune-a-sful. Well, thank you.

Well, thank you. Well, then let's talk about the disco naps. Yes. This is from my youth. Exactly. So a lot of people would go out to the disco but you didn't go there until 10, 30, 11 o'clock at night so people would take a nap before hand

to kind of bank their sleep if they would be able to kind of make that happen. So that's the disco nap. One of my favorite naps is called the Napa Latte. You love that one. I do love that one. And that's a lot about this product that I'm working with now.

So my original idea was that you have caffeine just before you take a nap and when you wake up, you've gotten rid of a little bit of deep sleep and the caffeine is locks in and boom, you're good for four hours. So I talked about that the last time I was on your show. You actually really liked that idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I was approached by a company that's taken that one step further. So they're called NAPJITSU. Okay, so I love the name. It's so much fun. Hey. And so it's a two-pill combination. So they give you one pill that you chew, and it's got a little bit of passion flour in it and a little bit of

Magnolia bark and a little bit of valerian so it helps you fall asleep because some people have a hard time falling asleep during the day. Then it's got a hundred milligrams of caffeine and 600 milligrams of neutropics. A hundred million grams of caffeine is one cup of coffee. Yeah, I thought a cup is 200. Depends on who you get the cup from if it's drip, if it's not that, but on average, it's about 100. But the tropics are really where it's at because here's what happens is you get value from the sleep, you get value from the caffeine, but it's not focused with the new tropics.

They've got things like altirine. I mean, there's actually a whole list, ashwagandha. I mean, there's a lot of things in there. But what's cool about it is when you wake up, you have energy and attention. So you get the sleep, you get the energy, you get the attention. And you're kind of getting called.

What's it called? NAP JITSU. NAP JITSU. Okay, when did this whole thing happen for you? So that actually just happened. I just actually announced my partnership with them this week. Oh, well, congratulations. Yeah, thanks.

And congratulations in that NAP J jitsu, who has you. So by the way, I wanted to ask you something tonight, we kind of, I didn't ask you this part. Is it possible to overexercise or exercise too much? You bet. It actually disrupts your sleep. Yeah, so it's called overtraining. And so we see it every once in a while.

It's something that I definitely have to keep an eye on with my professional athlete clients. Right. Because some of them are such good specimens. Like they're SUT, like I work with some surfers. And like these people are, they're not like real humans. It's unbelievable. But they can end up overtraining.

One of the early signs of overtraining is insomnia. So we really take a look at them. I keep my aura ring on them. So I can actually monitor all of my oral ring on them so I can actually monitor all of my athlete's sleep on a daily basis. Yeah, I mean, because that's a real issue, right? 100% who are, you think that you're like, doing, not doing more is sometimes it's less is more, I'm gonna say, right?

Absolutely. How about in terms of, okay, we talked about the natural, how about red light? So like, if you're just a red light help with sleep or if hinders sleep. So here's what I'm gonna tell you. There was a... That's what a biohacker listener's out there. Yeah, so there was a group that came to me that said, Michael, we want you to do some red light work.

We want to develop into red light, all of these things. Yeah. I could not find any data to suggest that red light before bed helps with sleep. The only data I was able to find showed that when red light is used in place of blue light, meaning when you don't have blue light, then it's helpful. So you could do just the same thing with another shade of light, if that's what you wanted to do, like an amber colored light

or something like that. So red light doesn't help. Red light helps with inflammation. Yeah, yeah, I mean inflammation all the other light helps with skin conditions skin conditions. I have seen no Data that says red light makes you fall asleep faster gives you higher quality sleeps does anything to your sleep other than it when it Replaces blue light. Mm-hmm. It's better than being exposed to blue light. Right. How about? How about infrared saunas? Love infrared saunas, lots of good information about raising core body temperature. So if you do it about 90 minutes before bed, it gives your core body temperature a chance to continue to drift downwards

because that's actually the mechanism by which melatonin kind of kicks off. So your core body temperature rises, rises, rises until about 10.30 and when it peaks and then drops, that's a signal to your brain to release melatonin. You can artificially induce that by doing an infrared sauna. I'm a huge fan of sauna. Is it the same?

How about if you don't have an infrared, you just have a regular sauna. You can have a regular sauna. I got one. This is kind of ridiculous. I got one. It's like a big burrito. It's like a soft one. You lay in it and it so primes you.

Do you like that one? I do. I liked it a lot. It works. Yeah, I was shocked. Really? Yeah, I can't remember the name of the company, but it worked really well. So how often do you do that?

So it depends because sometimes I work out and my workout facility has a steam room and a sauna. So it's kind of nice to go back and forth between the wet and the dry. So I have a tendency to do that. I would say I definitely do the sauna, especially now that it's getting colder, probably once or twice a week. Yeah, it's kind of nice to go back and forth between the wet and the dry. So I have a tendency to do that. I would say I definitely do the sauna, especially now that it's getting colder, probably once or twice a week.

Yeah, it's really good. There's so many other health benefits. I'm, I have it in my backyard now, I'm a huge fan of it. So I love them. And people say it, like I think it helps me sleep. I think it's no question about it. Every single patient that I have that

owns a sauna at their home, sleeps better because of it. Yeah, absolutely. Totally. So, tell me, we talked about a one or two of the questions, but where are the most popular questions that you still get? So, the number one question that I get is what bed should I buy? Really?

Number one question has been my partner. Have you seen those smart beds, by the way? I have. I'm not a few mungus fans. Yeah. Did they work? Well, that's a big problem. Some of them, most of them actually don't work.

But number two, not convinced you need to have all of that technology underneath you at all points in time. I do think there is a place for some technology. And I think there's a way that you could do it that might be pretty cool. But I'm not, I don't need my bed watching my sleep necessarily. Unless I've got a sleep-related problem. But generally speaking, I'm not the biggest fan

of smart beds. I like beds that do the two things that beds are supposed to do, which is give you support and give you comfort. Right. Exactly. That's what I'm looking for. It's becoming so, everything's becoming so tacky. And why the eight, like sleep, I mean,

we've got the aura rings and you know, everything is about like monitoring. I mean, I've I mean, I actually believe that there's been people are now having more anxiety than ever because they're watching all of these like so there's now something called orthosomnia, right? Orthosomnia, right? Where you watch your data too much. Yeah, and it makes you nuts. It makes you nuts. Right. So I talked so when before I put a ring on somebody. And you know, look, I've got rings on all kinds of, you know, celebrities, or athletes. Are you with or ring or something? Yeah, I'm on their board. Oh, you are. I'm a huge, by the way, I will say, of all of these sleep technologies. That is the one I like the best,

because it's the most accurate. It's on your finger, it's much more accurate. And it's not as cumbersome. Right, and you're right on both counts. And so the reason it's so accurate is because you can get core body temperature, which means you can track sleep so much better. That's the reason that I joined the company was because the form factor is fantastic. They just did a head to head study

where them and Fitbit are the two most accurate that are out there. For falling asleep, waking up, and total sleep time. And then Aura actually had 85%. I think it was agreement with full nighttime polysumnography. So when we put people in a sleep lab, they had 85% agreement with that, which is the best anybody's ever done so far

for sleep staging. Really? Yeah, so they're on their game in terms of trying to get there in terms of the technology. But they're also the people that say, hey, if you live and die by these numbers every moment of every day, like, uh-uh, that's not a good idea either.

So thinking through it, do you weigh yourself every day? Well, some people do because they wanna keep an eye on that. But then do you obsess and obsess and obsess over it? Well, if you do, then maybe you shouldn't weigh yourself every day. Same old's true with sleep. Yeah. For most of my patients, what I do is I take a look at their sleep once a week.

Usually, the night before they have an appointment with me the next day, so that way I can kind of get a summary of what's going on and be able to give them some real-time information. On occasion, I do have some patients who are interested in particular feedback for particular things. As an example, I have one patient who is an electronic EDM, electronic dance music person, and he doesn't go on stage until one o'clock in the morning. He wants to know how his sleep was the night before. He wants to be able to give 100% of his energy at 1 o'clock

in the morning. So those are instances that, you know, where tracking can be very interesting and you can really zoom in and learn some specifics. I actually do sleep genetics on almost all of my patients. So I actually can take your 23 and me data or your ancestry.com data. And I can actually predict things that are going to happen about your sleep in the future with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Really?

Yeah, it's amazing. That's great. I mean, can you, if I give you myself, can you do that for me? I could. And then do you like make suggestions? I do. So like as an example, I had one patient

who had a 38% chance of having restless legs syndrome in the future and in his blood work, we noticed that he had low ferritin, which is a key marker for restless legs. So we gave him iron and we're trying to now avoid him getting restless legs syndrome. So that's kind of how it works. It's super cool. This summer, he XU energy is back. The ultimate summer path, starting 50% off energy charges all summer. Everybody's on for automatic energy savings!

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It's amazing. I also do feel this has been such an uptick though, just on people's interest and curiosity about sleep because sleep has become like a trillion dollar business now. I know, I feel like I'm the little black dress. Right, really awesome. You really are. I mean, I've been little black dress. Right, really are though. It's awesome. You really are. I mean, I've been at it for 23 years, you know, educating.

I mean, I was the sleep expert for WebMD for 14 years. Like, I've been at this for a while, and it's so thrilling to see people finally starting to understand how important sleep is. I mean, especially now with the pandemic, you know, we're really seeing how sleep has such a great impact on immune function. And if we don't have our immune system steady, you know, for sure, you're going to get COVID and it's going to suck, you know, also, and if you're getting, you know, vaccinated, you should get good sleep the week before and good sleep in between the vaccinations because there's data to suggest that it makes the vaccine more effective. So, really?

Yeah, there's all kinds of data. Oh, yeah. We've seen that data in the flu studies that were done in the University of San Francisco maybe eight, 10 years ago. The flu shot is much more effective if you get a good night's sleep than I before. Same goes, holds true for COVID. Okay. Give me some more little tidbits like that.

See, these are the things that I'd like to, give me giving some current new, like, statistics that you've learned over the last year or two. Well, there's some unfortunate ones. I'll tell you that. So, I mean, alcohol is up, I think, 21% in terms of consumption, caffeine consumption, I think is up like 17%. It's, people have kind of gone off the rails, right? So you didn't have to go to work on a schedule so everybody could just throw on a ball cap in the Zoom. So, you know, like what's going on with this? So people's sleep schedules are off. I mean, we're seeing record numbers of prescriptions

for antidepressants and sleeping pills. Like, record numbers, like 20% increases over two years ago. Wow. So 20% more people are getting on antidepressants. 20% more people are getting on sleeping pills because everything is so messed up because their stress is through, that's why we want clean energy.

Like that's why I'm trying to do this and get the word out. It's like, we don't have to do this. If we could just follow like a simple, fricking game plan, like we could all feel a hell of a lot better, but we're abusing substances that we don't, and look, I'm not saying don't have caffeine, don't drink, I like scotch, you know, like there's nothing wrong with it, but I'm not gonna have four and then go to bed.

Right. I also ruined your sleep though. It was just a hate alcohol for that reason. It makes you feel like crap. Oh my God, it's the worst. But a lot of people are addicted to, what's that sleep medication? You know what it is.

Ambient? Ambient. How does someone transition off of that? Should they be smoking weed or like vaping weed? Because we can get you to sleep. So this is a great, so there's lots of questions. I'm gonna unpack what you just said, but briefly, okay? So first of all, if you are out there listening because we can get you to sleep. So there's lots of questions. I'm gonna unpack what you just said,

really briefly. Okay. So first of all, if you are out there listening and you're on a sleeping pill, that is a conversation between you and your doctor. That is not something that you just willy-nilly pull yourself off of. That's hyper-dangerous,

and you will get something called rebound insomnia. You'll be awake for four days, and you will be a mess. That's number one. Number two, there are people out there that should be on a pill to sleep. But again, if you're a paranoid schizophrenic, guess what, you're gonna need something

to put your ass to bed, right? That's how that works, right? That also works with people with major depression that also works that way with people with major anxiety disorder. So there's a lot of people out there where it's perfectly appropriate to be on a sleeping pill. So that's number two. Number three, if you don't like that, then you should be having a discussion with your doctor and you should be asking about a taper schedule. You never want to pull off of one of these medications quickly. For

taper schedules that we've worked with my patients, we work with their doctors who are the prescribing physicians, it could take three to six months to get somebody off of 10 milligrams of ambient. But we get them off of it very slow and very easy while I'm teaching them cognitive behavioral therapy and behavioral strategies scheduling all of the different things that go with it. Now there are some cases where somebody's in some, it's just so frickin bad, we need something to break the cycle. Sure, we'll use something like an ambion at that point in time.

Ambion in particular, is falls into the category of non-benzo-diazopenhipnotics. So it's considered not in a class of addictive drugs, whereas benzo-diazopenhipnotics, restarile, zanx, those are considered highly addictive. Zanx is a tough one. I've never been able to get a patient off it. Really? Ever.

So what happens? They just stay on it and that's it. Some people are stuck. Wow. Do they go to, like, I mean, don't they go to some type of like drug? So there are drug rehabilitation centers for people on benzodiazepines, people on sleeping pills for sure. There's some new data looking at substance called NAD, which I know you're familiar with NAD.

Very much familiar with NAD, like true niogen, it behind you. So there's data to show that IV, NAD, so that's highly, highly concentrated NAD, can actually be quite helpful in bringing people off of benzodiazepine addiction and sleeping pill addiction, as well as alcohol addiction and marijuana. So now let's talk about marijuana because you brought that up. So should you smoke weed while you're trying to come off your sleeping pills? No, that is a bad idea. I don't even mean that.

I mean, how about just maybe not instead of, but how about if someone has a problem following a sleep, if they vape weed or take an edible, can that get them to sleep? Is that a good option? So, it can get them to sleep, and it might not be a bad option. We just don't know enough yet about the data. So, there's not great data yet. All the data that we have in sleep and weed is from 30 years ago because it wasn't federally legal. So, nobody could study it. So, we're really relying on the Israelis because they've got the most data and the Belgians. They've got some data on sleep.

One of the things we're finding something called CBN is very effective. So CBN is oxidized THC. So if you remember back to high school, and I'm not picking on you in particular, but if you ever had a bag of weed in high school and you left it in your closet for a couple of months and it turned brown We would call that dirt weed that was actually oxidized

THC or CBN so what it has is it has a lot of the characteristics of THC which help lower the anxiety without the potency of the psychedelic effects so CBN can be effective with CBD, but I wanna be very clear about something. The claims they're being made about CBD helping with sleep for the most part are complete and utter bullshit. All right, you would need the way the data reads right now,

you'd need north of 160 milligrams of CBD in order to show any type of somnolent or sleepy effect. What CBD does do a good job of is reducing pain and reducing inflammation. Now, if you're not sleeping well due to pain or inflammation, take some CBD. Is that right? Right. Because they're selling it. I mean, listen, I think it's like the new quality flower or kale. Right. I totally agree. It's such horseshit. It is. I mean, listen, I think it's like the new cauliflower kale. Right. I totally agree.

It's such horseshit. It is. And it's host CBD. Like I refuse to really do anything with the CBD companies because I find them all to be a bunch of nonsense. Well, here's what I can tell you is there are a few good ones out there.

But those are the ones that actually do science. So I'll tell you a funny story. I had a group come to me with a CBD pillow. Oh my gosh. are you serious? Yes. And here's what they said to me. They said, we soaked the pillow in CBD. And when you roll your head around,

little microspanials burst and you sniff it in. Oh my gosh. Okay, so of course that's, there's no pot, there's no universe where that actually occurs. But I figured I'd play around with them for a minute and I was like, okay, well that sounds interesting. How much CBD did you, did you soak this in? They said, you're going to be so excited, Dr. Bruce. We soaked it in 160 milligrams of CBD. So, right. So they looked up the number. Right. So I said, perfect. So if I swallow the whole freaking pillow,

then maybe it'll reduce some of my inflammation. Get out of my office. So like that's what I believe is. Is you've got people who are misrepresenting the science, not really looking at it. Look, if people want to learn how cannabis affects your sleep, I've written north of 14,000 words about it on my website. I've got eight different blogs looking at everything from, do you want to use CBD for insomnia,

which weed should you smoke if you're trying to sleep better? How does marijuana affect my sleep stages? Like it's all there. I've done an extensive research on this and it's all well-referenced so you can find out whatever you want. And you just told us, it's the CBN kind, the oxidized THC is the best kind

to be sleeping with. Now, to be fair, I should have thrown that away last week, damn. A little bit of THC, I personally kind to be sleeping with. Now, to be fair, I shouldn't have thrown that away last week. Down. A little bit of THC, I personally believe is good. And I'll explain why. It lowers your anxiety. The biggest problem with THC is it ups your heart rate.

Remember, 60 is the magic number for heart rate. So you have to find one that doesn't have a very high level of THC, higher CBN is probably going to be good for you. I'll be honest with you, as a doc, I can't say vaping is a good idea. It just goes against everything. I know. I'm a eyes day and four. But how do you do it?

Put it in brownie. A tincture. A tincture. You know, a little dropper that you can put under your tongue. It actually will get up and in sublingually almost as fast as if you vape. I love that or an edible. Edibles take a little bit longer and they're less predictable. I heard.

They're less predictable because you gotta get in the stomach, all the stomach acid eats it, you gotta get it up there. Personally, I would suggest use the under the tongue for sleep. If it's just for recreational use, again, as a doc, it's gonna be hard for me to say that you wanna vape, that I want you to vape, but what I can tell you is the effect is going to come on much quicker if you do. All right.

And then any other tips we can take away with us before you get off this podcast. I know. I'm feeling a little tipped out by my book. That's the best tip I can give you. Go buy energize by Michael Bruce and Stacey Griffith, go from dragging ass to kicking it in 30 days. I am so happy to have you again on this podcast. You're always a great guest.

I swear, I love it. And always like, you always bring the information all the time. I love it. I got that broccoli one this time. I got banana tea, banana tea, the CBN. Oh, yes. I mean, I just.

You're taking notes left. Yeah, I am, raw honey. I love it. T, the CBN. Oh yes. I mean, I just. You're taking notes left, right? Yeah, I am. Rahunny, I love it. Like, this is great. Where else can we find you? Where did they buy the book? So buying the book, Amazon, as the obvious choice, books a million, whatever books are sold, or you can go to my website, thesleepdoctor.com, or if you want to take the quiz, go to myenergyquiz.com

and you can figure it all out. Yes, I love these quiz. Everyone loves those quizzes. Quizzes are super fun. Yeah, they are. People will dig it for sure. For sure they will. Thank you, Michael, for being a great guest as usual.

Thanks for having me on JC. Absolutely, I'll see you again for your fifth book. Ha ha. Habits and hustle, time to get it rolling. Stay up on the grind, don't stop. Keep it going. Habits and hustle, from nothing in the sun. All out, a host to buy Jennifer Cohen. Hope you enjoyed this episode. I'm Heather Monahan, host of Creating Confidence, a part of the YAP Media Network, the number

one business and self-improvement podcast network. Okay, so I want to tell you a little bit about my show. We are all about elevating your confidence to its highest level ever and taking your business right there with you. Don't believe me? I'm going to go ahead and share some of the reviews of the show so you can believe my listeners. I have been a longtime fan of Heather's no matter what phase of life I find myself in. Heather seems to always have the perfect gems of wisdom that not only inspire, but motivate me into action. Her experience and personality are unmatched, and I love her go getter attitude.

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