Habits and Hustle - Episode 155: Mickey Guyton – Country Music Artist, 4x Grammy Nominated, 2022 Super Bowl National Anthem Artist

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

Mickey Guyton is a Country Music Artist, 4x Grammy Nominated, 2022 Super Bowl National Anthem Singer. Mickey’s the epitome of the “overnight success taking 20 years”. Only recently gaining traction and exploding into a household name, in this episode she talks through failure after failure being tossed around and undervalued in the music industry since she was 17 years old. Describing being signed to a label as just a “wedding day” in preparation for a greater marriage, Mickey sheds light on all of the mysterious and unfortunate dealings in pursuing music as a career. From start to finish, label to label, and when she finally started taking her career into her own hands leading to her Grammy nominations! Let’s face it, we’re all late to the party when it comes to Mickey Guyton but now’s as great a time as any to jump on. This is a perfect start. Youtube Link to This Episode Mickey’s Instagram Mickey’s Website ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When there's a penalty on the field, referees are there to sort it out. When there's an accident on the road... Sergeant Lindros, I'm glad you're okay. That's where USAA steps in. We help make the claims process easy, so drivers can get back on the road fast. Making the right calls. That's what we're made for. USAA Membership eligibility and product restrictions apply in our subject to change. USAA means United Services Automobile Association and its affiliates.

San Antonio, Texas. Vitamin water zero sugar just dropped in all new taste. It was zero holding back on flavor. You can be your all feeling. I'll play and all self-care you. Grab the all new taste today. Vitamin water zero sugar. Nourishcare you. Grab the all new taste today. Vitamin water's zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O.

I got this Tony Robbins, you're listening to Habits and Hustle. Fresh it. So today on Habits and Hustle, we have a really special guest. I mean, super, super special. It is Mickey Gaiten and this is very meaningful to me. I've known Mickey by gosh, over 20 years. I knew her when she first moved to LA and before she became a really huge country star. And you know, she's been grinding and working in the music industry for many, many, many years. And her story is nothing if not

inspiring. And she is exceptionally resilient. We're going to talk all about her rise to fame. For those of you who don't know who Mickey is, she is a country star. Her song, her name made history as a first black artist to earn a Grammy nomination for Best Country album. She just performed at the Super Bowl doing the National Anthem. She has multiple fantastic projects in the works. She co-hosted or guest star the Ellen Show. Like I said, she's nominated for Best

Country album, Best Country Song, Best Country Solo Performance, and that's just the tip of the iceberg for this girl. This girl is exceptionally talented but more importantly she is a beautiful soul inside and out and I cannot tell you how happy I am for her success. It couldn't happen to a more amazing person and like I said you're gonna really love her story, her rise to fame, so to speak, and how she kept on falling and failing, but her resilience obviously paid off. Please enjoy this podcast episode. This is a very exciting podcast today.

It's so exciting because I've known this girl since she was we-high if you're watching or like, you know very very small And now she's a global sensation Well, you know you are actually and you know, it's it's what I call her my Kell But it's Mickey Geiten. Hello who is up for three Grammys, I can't even believe it. It's wild. Three Grammys. It's wild.

Performing at the Super Bowl in like two weeks, doing the national anthem. And I mean, just your whole career and the trajectory of how like since I've known you, the how it's happened, it's so crazy to me. It's crazy. And you haven't changed like even like, you haven't changed, like even like, you haven't changed.

No, you, I mean, we go back, we go back before it all the time, but you literally have not changed. Like you look the same, you have to change. You do, too. You just have blonde hair. Well, this was more of an accident, the blonde hair than it was really. I wanted to go a little lighter, but the way.

I love it. It looks really good to you. Really? I think it was a little too blonde. We had curly hair, that's so nice. Oh, that's right. Yeah. I still do. This is again. This is just like one of those like styles that are just like here and also what kind of hair did you have back then? I had micro braids maybe. No, you didn't have my... Weaves. I definitely had a week. You probably had a week. Now I'm doing lace front wigs. This is is a night This is really nice. Isn't this so cute. It's beautiful

This is Rihanna. You look really that's a really yeah, I call her Rihanna and it's really it's beautiful Thank you and like the the headband. It's like you're so nice. You know I tried I tried for you No, you showed up like so nice and I'm wearing like my gym clothes underneath here I almost wore my gym clothes, but I was like, I got to step it up. You stepped it up for me. It's the elevation. Oh my gosh, I'm flattered. I'm flattered.

Where do we say so? I didn't like, because it's you. So everyone here, whoever's listening, so I've known Mikel, otherwise, aka Mickey, for many, many, many years since she was 20 years. I'm 20 years. Wow. Years.

I trained her when she was on MCA Universal. It was MCA Universal. And through Clyde Lieberman, you were one of my subjects at that end, but we became, I had a six pack. Because of you. You did? Yeah.

Oh, God, girl. You were also 19 years old. I was like tiny. You were tiny. You're still are, by the way. You're still a lot of you. I mean, you did? Yeah. Oh, God, girl. Well, you were also 19 years old. I was like tiny. You were tiny. You still are, by the way. You still are, tiny. But we had like an instant connection. And we were like sisters from the second we met.

And, you know, even though like many years have gone by, I feel like the connection never wavered. It never changed. Never. And here we are. So I'm watching the tickets to give you some background. So her and I stayed in touch for many, many years. For many years.

And then we kind of like drifted apart because of life. For like the last 10 years when I was in Nashville, that's kind of when. Yeah, when you were in Nashville. And then I'm like watching, you know, the today's show, getting my breakfast and who pops up on my screen? Little, little, my Cal singing a song, and then, I mean, next thing, you know, I didn't,

and then I'm like, oh my God, and I'm like Googling, and I'm like, oh yeah, up for like all these country music awards and all these things. And like, what's happened with your career? And this is, by the way, a great example of, you know, an overnight success takes 20 years in the making, right? Like nothing is ever nothing what you think it is, right? It wasn't like you just appeared on, you know, yeah, yeah, it wasn't like all of a sudden, right? So first

well, let's even go through it. So like, can you, I really want to talk to you because you really kind of like were in you were like, you like did the work. You were in it. You were when I met her, she was like when she was signed, she was like touted to be, you were touted to be like the next Whitney Houston. This girl has pipes on her that I don't even think people even know to this degree.

You know, I mean, this girl can sing. And you know, you went through so many labels and like it was like, it's like a grind. It's a grind. It's a grind. People don't understand that. Once you get a record deal, excuse me, you automatically assume that you've made it.

And that is not the case. Like the, the, signing a record deal is like the wedding. That's a great way to put it. That's like the wedding. Like you spend all this time. It's this beautiful moment. And then the actual marriage happens where you have to do the work.

And either you sink or you swim. And I sunk for a long time. Well, also you should talk about it. It's not that necessarily you sunk. It's how the business of music is. Well, also you should talk about it. It's not that necessarily you stunk. It's how the business of music is. People think like you said, when you get the label, when you get the deal, that it's gonna be like rainbows and butterflies.

And on both ends, it can be, well, talk about, I want you to talk about this for you. Yeah, well, every single time I've been signed or gotten opportunities in music a lot of times, the label was folding. And people don't realize that like back in the early 2000s, the music industry was going through a huge massive transition like it was crumbling everywhere. Used to be able to walk into a record labels and there'd be like 10 a and R people and loud and music playing everywhere. Used to be able to walk into record labels and there'd be like 10 a.m.

R people and loud and music playing everywhere. It was like such a vibrant experience. And now you can hear a pin drop walking through record labels. It's like few people doing doing many jobs and that was happening. Every record label folded, all the presidents of

all the labels were getting fired and labels were literally going away. And so that was something that I had to deal with when I first moved to Nashville. I mean, LA. So you're from Texas. I'm born and raised. I grew up in Waco, Texas and like the Dallas, Fort Worth area. And then I moved to L.A. to do music. That's where I saw the most opportunity for me was there. Well wait, talk about how you've been got to L.A. Because you were already, because you moved here, how old were you when you actually moved to LA? 19. You moved when you were 19?

Yeah, 19. So, but you were, you were doing music back in Texas. Yeah, I was doing music and recording demos and writing music with a man named Robbie Neville, who had a big hit back in the day called Sailovie and that's who really started helping me kind of get into the music industry. And I think the issues that I had living in when I first moved to LA is I was just the girl that could sing and I was kind of just following what everybody was telling me to do and I wasn't really being an artist. I was just being a singer. So many people can sing. There's people that can sing ten times better than me

and there's people that can sing okay that better than me. And there's people that can sing okay that have massive careers because they have a vision of what they want to do as an artist. I didn't have that. I just had a good voice and I didn't know where to place it. So I placed it wherever people assumed that I should be in. That's such a good point.

You've never actually said it like that. And I think that's so true. Like there's a distinction between being an artist and being a good singer. 100%. And you were, you had a great voice. And you were being led to do that. But you didn't, what would you say an artist is,

would be the definition of a someone who's a good true artist? I think a true artist, whether they are writing the song or not, are able to interpret a song. They have a very distinctive voice, and they have a vision of who they are as an artist, like a Madonna, like a Britney Spears, like I'm trying to think, like a Tony Braxton, like a Shenaiatue, they all had a specific art, like that they were very much so involved in the creative process.

And then there's people that are just singers that sing the demos of the songs, and I was almost acting like a demo singer than an actual artist. So when was the transition? Like, when did you kind of come... That's a great epiphany. When did you think of it? Was that like much, much. When did you think up it was at like much much later?

It was much much later. It was losing deals. It was it was working at restaurants. It was couch surfing. It was literally having $4.98 in my bank account. And life, which has happened to me, signing a deal and and realizing that country music is where I felt led to be. And as I was living in Nashville, there was a man named Darryl Brown, who works with

Lee and Rhymes, who I was writing with. And he told me this, this, this was the best advice somebody has ever given me. And he says that when you sign a record deal, you need to tell your label, how to label. Your manager is how to manage. Your co-writer, songwriters, how to co-write. Your business manager, how to business manager. Your tour manager, how to tour manage.

Your creative director, how to creative direct. And I was just like, it didn't really, I didn't process it until later, and I was thinking, oh, I need to be the CEO of my business. So what does that look like as an artist? What does that look like? So I started treating my music not just as, I just love music, but as a business.

So I started going on Pinterest and looking at different images of people. It didn't matter who they were. And I'm like, well, I see myself as that. And what do I want this music to sound like? And I realize my voice sounds best with piano. So let me put piano driven songs in my, as I'm writing. I found a female Canadian producer in Nashville that Canadian, you know, out in a boat. Out in a boat. And I love Canadians. Canadians will tell you that I love Canadians.

Because we're nice. We are very nice. You're very, very nice. We are. And so I just started having my hand in every part of my career. And that, to me, is an artist. It's not just being up there and consinging well. It's you being a business woman of your brand. That is first of all so well said. And I could not even agree with you more. And most people don't take

that ownership and that lead. And they hand it over to other people. And that's when their career really does go astray. Right? It's like you're, you're, you're basically treating it like any other business. I can't, like you're working for them. Right. Like, but you're, like you're reversing it. And that that because people are usually so grateful that they they get that deal, that they'll just acquiesce and just take what's given to them. That's what I do. Right versus actually flipping it on its head. But do you think you are able to do that because of your experience, you were kind of like you've been down and out so much. And it was like the power of resilience. You are so you are obviously so resilient that you've been down and out so much. And it was like the power of resilience.

You were so, you are obviously so resilient that you're able to get right back up. Because like, I remember just, with you, you had like at the beginning, like three or four deals, you were at MCA, then you were at, with baby face. And then you were with another, what was the other one? Universal. Universal. Universal, Motown. Motown.

And then there was like a bunch of other ones. Like, and then I signed to Capitol Nashville, which then, as I signed to Capitol, that label was sold to Universal. Oh my gosh. That's hilarious. I can't, like even when I moved to Nashville, I still couldn't escape that. And for like two years, the record label didn't even have a president. Really?

So how was it? For any news? You are really. So then how does that work? And then why would you get like, what happened with babyface actually? So remember that MCA thing, you... I kind of, it's a really foggy... Is that a word I don't remember either? It was just like, if you work with an artist that's as massive as baby face, they're going to still focus on where their bread and butter is. Right. How much they love you as an artist, they've got to go where their bread and butter is.

So you're definitely on the back burner. Are there labels out there that are known to be like the ones that actually help build a career? Because I think to kind of go on what you said earlier, which I think was really smart about the CEO of your business, a lot of times people try it. Like, either they don't think that way because they are so grateful that they were given the opportunity. But isn't there a lot of pushback because I would imagine it depends on who your partners are. I think it depends on who your partners are. It depends

on your relationship with the label. I was really fortunate to be signed to Capitol, which is a very good record label. And the president of that record label, Cindy Maeve, a woman in Nashville, she and I have a great relationship. Was it after we did this is way after this is me now they have a story. Yeah, fast forward to Nashville Capitol records emerging into universal and all of that fixing itself out. And then Cindy Maeabe is the president.

Okay. And I have a great relationship with her. And, and I've kind of followed in her footsteps and have really embraced, first of all, it's so badass that there's a woman in Nashville who's the head of a record label. Yeah. And it's just rare. It's very rare. It's very rare. It's very, yes., very good old boys system. There's a woman in there that is fighting the fight for women. And she has been so supportive for artists. Universal Nashville. I can't speak for every other label, but from my personal experience, Universal is the

best record label in Nashville. They do not give up on their artists. They give their artists a chance to find themselves and they don't just throw you away, which so many record labels do. You're like a noodle. They throw it on the wall and if it sticks, great. They go with it. If not, they cut off, you know, the fat. Yeah. So tell me how does it work. So it gives us like an idea. So then you get signed. Like you were saying it's the wedding. Yes. And then what is the creative process? And so often, more often than not, you get signed to a record label. And then they love you. And then they try to change everything that they loved about you to fit into whatever the times are. The more the fat is, whatever the it thing is of the moment,

they try to fit you in that. And which is so, it does such a disservice to people as artists because then you have to like scrap everything that you did to fit this. Well, also doesn't make sense because they signed you for a particular reason because you obviously stood out in a way. And then they try to change you to what they think, but it doesn't, if there's a disconnect there, right?

There's a huge disconnect. So like, why is that, could that still happen? It happens, it's like, it happens on these doors. It's a same story, different cast. Right, it happens on these shows. Different stories, same story, different cast. Right, it's like, it happens a bit like, but don't you think that people would have,

like, the people like the executives would have figured that out by now? You would think, but, you know, money talks more than anything else. Money talks and no matter what, that's where people are gonna go. Wherever the money is, they're gonna go. So, but when they do that, and there's clearly,

and then people are like, you, there are more singers, they're doing that, right? Cause if you kind of claim your power, I guess, and become an artist, you won't allow that, and it may be necessarily, but where are the choices there? Like, let's say, first of all,

there aren't choices. I'm just personally, was very, very lucky to have a label that allowed me to figure it out. But what if you, like I was going to say, like, let's say, like, cut to the back when like 10 years ago, right? And you kind of acknowledge that and realize that and try to do that. Yeah. It would have, what would have happened? Would you have been dropped? Because you're too sure. It depends on who the president of the label is at the time, 100%. You are there to say and do what they tell you to do. Right.

100%. And so you just... Or that's what I think. I don't want to say that 100% because I don't know. But I believe that that was more of your fate. Right. Until your... Because I've seen and heard artists that have put their foot down and said, this is what we're going to do.

And the label's like, okay, bye. Okay, bye. And do that yourself. And the truth of the matter is it doesn't always work. It does have like cookie ideas. One hundred percent. And they don't know what they're like. Yeah.

Sometimes it's a good eight. So I'm like kind of on now that you mentioned that like it to I feel like and maybe you can correct me but also you have to kind of burn that space a little bit like I think that if you show it becomes like such a double I just want to write because if you throw the noodle on yeah and it doesn't stick because they're doing what they want you to do. Yeah, but what if you, a lot of times you need to have like a some kind of success to been able to have the ability to call your shots, right? Take a doubt. So that is what happened with me.

So what happened with you when they signed you to have a lot of community with you? When they signed me, I did everything. The woman wasn't there yet. Jet was the name again, Cheryl. Cindy, Cindy, no, she was Cindy. No, she was not. No, she was. She was there.

Excuse me. She's Cindy made was, but she wasn't the president of the Oh, she wasn't. Okay. What was she doing in the past? Nice. President. Okay. Okay.

So when I signed there, you know, I did everything that they told me to do. I sang the songs that they told me to sing. I wrote this, tried to write the songs they wanted me to write. I used the songs that they told me to sing. I wrote this, tried to write the songs they wanted me to write. I used the producers that they thought should produce me. I did everything that they told me to do. And it did not work. And it didn't work for a long time until finally,

I started, I had been, well, to be honest, I had two different sides of me. I was writing the side that I was hoping would fit into the country music world. And then I was writing the stuff that just fit me as an artist that I loved, the stuff that felt cathartic for me to write and to sing. And the stuff that was me never really saw the light of day for a long time until I met with Cindy, maybe personally by ourselves. And I started just playing her these songs. I was like, I have this. Nobody's really responding to it. And she was like, well, this is really

good. And I was like, I thought so too. But I just didn't I didn't know what I was a bunch of men telling me what I should do. And not every man knows what a woman wants to hear. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. It's true. And I had nothing but men telling me what women want to hear. And I'm like, well, I'm a woman. I know what a woman wants to hear. At least what I want to hear. Right. That is not what I want to hear and I'm like, well, I'm a woman. I know what a woman wants to hear. At least what I want to hear. Right. That is not what I want to hear. The stuff that they wanted me to say.

And so I started just following my instinct. My internal gut instinct that was screaming at me for a long time. And that's the other thing that people have to understand. Like, first of all, you have to have the talent, you have to have the songs and the vision. But you also have a gut instinct. We all have it. We all know what's right for ourselves. And even when we go against our better judgment, it all, most of nine times out of 10, it screws us over. Right. And I was, this voice was screaming at me to do this. And I just kept pushing it aside and pushing it aside. You don't know.

Right. You don't know what you're talking about. These people know. Right. You don't trust yourself because you feel that people with more, quote unquote, experience know. Mm-hmm. And they didn't know.

And they didn't know. And you have to understand that, too. A lot of times, these people in these high-powered positions have no freaking idea what they're talking about. They have no idea what they're doing, like how they're even in these positions. It's a miracle. It's a miracle that we have been able to sustain this country with so many people that have no vision or clue or innovativeness that are in these major positions.

It's really amazing. And when you get more into the weeds, you see it's so clear and you see it more and more and it's baffling. Yep. It's totally baffling. But also you started so young and a lot of times when people start so young, you don't have the strength and knowledge to be that way. Some people do. And also the foresight and the ability to stay, like you seem like you kind of, well, not even seem you are, you're so level headed

and like, and you're so down to earth with them. Like a lot of times people, it ruins you. Like, because you were not, like let's go even back further when in Texas because even to get to LA at 19 to get this big record deal and to even Do all that stuff. There was something obviously that people saw about you when you were younger So what were you doing when you were like 14 15 16 because you were in this you have been doing this since you

Small small school. Yeah, I was just singing in church and around my school, singing the national anthem for the basketball games at Mansfield High School in Texas. That's all I was doing. And I'm wronging him. We'll found you at a church. Yeah. So no, so I found this vocal studio, which I don't want to name the name because this woman was just horrendous. Is this still around? I don't know. Oh, okay. I don't know. She was a really wealthy woman in Texas that

had a vocal studio and was and I guess she've worked with like Jessica Simpson or something like that. And that was her selling point. So all these kids were going there because this was our big shot. And this one was taking it to the bank. Wow, right. She just like leveraging off of that one name. Yeah, 100%. Like she like,

she should be now. But no intentions. But I guess I'll give this one credit because she did throw the seminar, which is where I met Robbie Neville. Somehow she got Robbie to do this. I was Robbie Neville even there. I have no idea. I don't know how she got him there, but she did.

And Robbie Neville, by the way, it wasn't he the Guy Beehive High School Musical. Yes, Robbie Neville was behind high school musical, but he also had a big hit in the 80s called Say Lovey. Say Lovey, say Lovey. I told you, yeah. I told you, yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, so he was the one that kind of really took me under his wing and it just went from there.

But wait, how did he find you? No, no, no, no. This is like the the nugget set. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I was like 17 maybe. So you were singing at this thing. You meet it. So you were at like, you meet him at through this woman

at this thing and then what happens? And then he was like, he pulled me were like, you meet him at through this woman, this thing. And then what happened? He said, and then he was like, he pulled me aside like, holy shit. Oh my God. Come to LA. And so I went to LA and I was doing demos with him just to kind of like try to find a space for for me. Between 17 and 19, though, what we were Yeah, I was working with him and recording him was a working, no, no, not in Tuzl 18.

So you was still in high school. I know, but like you were doing two years of just back and like you were doing it from Texas. If you did, he would come to Texas. Yeah, and we were putting together music and writing songs, yeah. And then what was it? Why did you come at 19?

Like what happened? I graduated. So the second you graduated. I was I graduated from high school. That's when I moved. And then so did you did you have the record deal already or no? Yes I did. I got my record deal right right when I was um I was still in high school. They, John will save you. La la la la la la la. Uber, John will save you.

Uber, one will save you. On all your eats, the savings can't be beat. Up to 10% off your orders. Join Uber One, member save up to 10% on Uber Eats. Get that stuck in your head. Zero0 delivery fee and percentage off discount subject to order minimums and participating scores, taxes and other fee still apply. So you're winding down with the podcast.

Sounds like you have no plans to leave the couch tonight. Nope, you just want to unzip your jeans, slip on a pair of fuzzy slippers, and rip open a bag of skinny pop popcorn. Because the only place you're going tonight is the bottom of this bag of popcorn. What I still to this day, I don't even know, because you were like gonna be this big hot thing, why did you even get dropped?

That's when I, because that's when the merger happened. Oh, and that's when, because I knew's when the merger happened. Oh, and that's when I knew yeah, the new head caveman, whenever a new president, a new head of a label comes in, they bring their own people, they bring their own town, they want their own talent. And so that's what they started shaving off the roster. And that's when you had to go find someone else. Yes, right. So this went on for how many years this whole back and forth for you. Once I moved to LA, it was 19. Yeah.

But you could be between LA and then to Nashville. How long, like that was how many years? So from LA to Nashville, I was in LA from 19 to 26. So you moved to Nashville when you were 26 years old? When I was 27. 27 years old. And then, OK, so then when you were 26 years old. When I was 27, 27 years old. And then, okay, so then when you were like, waiting tables and all this stuff

and you moved to Nashville. Yeah, and during that time, you know, like no deal going to school, figuring out like at one point in time I'd give it a musical together. And you went back to school. You went to school, I went to Santa Monica City College and LA Valley College

because I could get both of my credits from both of those. So I like there were some days where I was at Santa Monica City College and then some days I was all the way out in the valley and I lived in Plei Avista. That's right. And then what were you taking at school? I was doing I was studying business administration. Could you like screw this I'm not doing this anymore? Yeah. And so I was like well at least if I have a business degree, then I can figure it out from there. So what made you go back into the business? So were you sitting at all? No, I was at singing at all. I was I was perfectly fine giving it up. Like I was okay with that. Like I just didn't have any opportunities. I didn't know. Like I was just done.

Like it's just so traumatic. It's not traumatic. That's not the word, but to see your dreams slip out of your hands like that. It's very disheartening. And it's like, this industry is so fickle and so materialistic. And and so even when you're struggling as an artist, you know, you get a signing bonus. I don't even know how much they are now. Maybe $50,000 is what you get for signing.

That's nothing. Really? It's nothing and that's it. What were the back then? It was like a hundred, but still. Right, so it's definitely decreased. Because you're right, the music business, that was like the beginning when the people were going on iTunes and Napster. Yeah, they were like iTunes wasn't even, no.

It was just lime wire and Napster. Yeah, lime wire and Napster. Yeah, lime wire and Napster. So nobody was making money, still aren't really. And so yeah, like you get that money and that's supposed to last you until you sell records. I know, it's a crazy business. We're gonna get into all that because I think it's super interesting too. So how do you do that?

But still portray that you're somebody but you need a job. To get like exactly like you need to make money. You have to make money. So I you know once I got out to Nashville, you're deciding your record. But still we got to that. So like what can you decide? So you're here. How are you work at the restaurant and you're also doing this. I became, yeah, and so I became friends. I auditioned for American Idol. I love this. I totally forgot about that.

I hated this. It was the worst experience I've ever had. I don't even know if I'm supposed to speak on it, but I had a horrible experience. It just wasn't fun. experience. It could just, was it fine? You're, you're in this room full of people that are exploiting themselves for television. And I'm an artist. I'm a singer. That's my first life. At that, I was going to say, at that point, when you did American Idol, were you an artist or you a singer? I was an artist. You're ready. We're like developing into it. Well, it wasn't even that. Like I didn't have that exact mentality,

but that's where I felt. You got it. And so I couldn't, I just shut down in that environment. Well, what happened? What was the process? Like, what was it? What is the process? Well, you know, they're looking for stories.

They have a cast that they are looking to fill. And it felt like that to me. And I just, I couldn't give them that. I'm very, I'll give you everything that I have, but at the same time, I don't want to give you everything that I have. I can't give you that much of a window into my world. And that's what they're expecting. And that's what, and it's not a bad thing at all.

It's good to me. It's good TV. It's good TV, so I don't blame them. But for me personally, I couldn't, I didn't do well in that. Did you like what would make, what, my ex boyfriend had me auditioned. That's the only reason why I did it.

And so you like, oh he said, come on and just audition. Yeah, and so I didn't even think I was gonna make it. And then I got on the show and I was, I regretted it, I regretted it. Like I wasn't happy, like you're stressed out, you're nervous, it's all of this kind of stuff. It was awful. I hated it.

How long did you get? What number did you get? I got to top 50. So that's gonna be so crazy to me. How did you even get to, how many people who are auditioning, by the way, or in your shoes, who are people who are oning by the way or in your shoes who are people who are on labels before who are like so many. I would say probably 50% of it. It's more morally like

I can imagine. Like for me, I was like this is what I've come to. Exactly. And I don't want to disrespect. But it's the show, because I sang on that show with one of the contestants, but it was even harder for me looking at it because it's for good TV and those hopefuls, those American Idol hopefuls that want to win. I knew as soon as that show is off, and show is over, they're on to the next. Totally. And those hopeful, those human beings that were so happy, like, it goes away. Well, then like, but people like, I think you get you've, the shows had what? Like they had Kelly Clarkson kind of under. Kelly, Kelly, carry underwood. Who else?

That's it? Like Ruben Stutterd, he had a, but the ones that have lasted. Clay, clay. Yeah, but he's in politics now, but the only ones that I can remember is carry underwood and Kelly Clarkson. I don't remember anybody else.

Yeah, that's it. But that's really kind of what the music industry is. Well, and by the way, because only the top 1% of the 1% make it. So think of all those people that have auditioned. Not to mention you think, like, I know what I think is interesting, at least American Idol had a couple of massive stars that came from you.

I cannot think of one person off of the voice. No. Or any of these other shows that people are doing it for the exposure. That's why they're at the end of the day doing it. America's got talent. They're doing it because they want the exposure. But what happens when you get the exposure,

what happens on that? But that's what I'm saying. Why has there never been anybody else who's hit it off of those shows, especially the voice, because that show has such high numbers. I feel there's such great vocalists. And there are people, these are people who are great, great stingers, great vocalists,

but maybe that's because they're only an artist. It's so hard to be an artist. Because they don't have, but has there been a person out of the, on the voice that ever hit it? I don't think there's ever been. And they'll cast a pope, but I don't know who that is. Yeah.

So then what happens? So, basically does that say that just because you have exposure, because week after week, people are watching you do that show at the end. And they fall in love with, they love the show. But will they, like, falling invested in the artist, like allowing them and giving them the chance to become artists. That's, I don't know, I can't speak on, I don't know what happens after that. I've never, well, even the people who win, I never hear, you know, hear from them.

That's it. It's like, woo! I know, onto the next day. Pop the champagne and the balloons and then it's blue, blue. Is it out of strange because because think about how much exposure they're getting? That's kind of how it feels after you have a record deal. Woo, pop the champagne.

And then you're like, oh, yeah, so like then what? So then yeah, like it's unbelievable. And not everybody's given the chance. I was really fortunate to have a label invested in me and giving me the chance. So like what happens to be an art tell us what happens. So you get hot, okay, so then I get signed. But wait, hold on, I want to go in order.

So many questions for you. I want to first know about how you got back into the business. Yes. And then we can talk about the actual, the nitty gritty of like what happens after you get signed. Yes, so I, I became after I auditioned for American Idol. I ran into, and once I auditioned, made it to the top 50, got let go, though same week that I got let go.

I went to a bar in Santa Monica and ran into Randy Jackson. So crazy. I know. And so he remembered me any week, changed numbers and we became friends. And then he introduced me to this woman named Jessica Bendinger who wrote, bring it on and stick it. His office was in the same office where she was.

And she and I became really great friends. And she became a mentor for me. And just a good person that I wouldn't be where I am I became really great friends and she became a mentor for me. And just a good person that I wouldn't be where I am without her. And how crazy that Randy Jackson was at the bar. Exactly. And I was super defeated from that. Like I was super embarrassed from that.

It's so crazy. You know, it's so crazy that episode that season I was on the opening commercial for the Super Bowl that year was me singing on American Idol. No way. Talk about like a full circle. It's a very full circle moment. And I was the one singing. Yeah. And I had to watch that with that heartbreak. Like, why would they even have used that? If you knew I'm not even,

that is so interesting to me that that happened. And now like literally like 10 years, 11, 12 years later, you're gonna be singing at the Super Bowl. Yeah. Well, it is, it's like kind of, I think this is your destiny. So then, I mean, the fact that Randy Jackson is sitting at a bar a week later and he remembered you. So how did you, did you go up to him or what do you think?

Yeah, I went up and I was like, hey, I don't know if you remember me. And he was like, oh my God, you know how many times I, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's such a nice man, by the way. I heard he's very nice. He's very, very, very, very nice. And so that's when I started working with Jessica and she was the one she was like,

but why did he even like, what did he, like he's like, oh, I want to introduce you to her because she could help you do that. Because I was at the office. I was at his office talking about music and she happened to come in. She happened to come in. And so then that's how we became friends.

And she was writing a book and she made a soundtrack to the book. And so I volunteered to do demos for her. What book was she writing? It was called Written in the Stars. OK. And so she was writing songs to it and asked me to sing on them. And I say volunteer. I think and asked me to sing on them and Desi volunteer, I think she asked me to sing on them. And so I said of course, and so I started singing the demos and she was like

She looks I swear you have country elements in your voice. I was like, well funny. Say that. I Mean, I've listened to country music for my life from Texas. Like That's kind of what I listened to before, even when he said was like, the end rhymes. And, um, because you were here doing pop stuff. Yeah, yeah. And so, and I was doing, I was even doing Whitney Houston demos out here. Like, if anybody needed a song for Whitney Houston, they would ask me to sing the demos. Oh, trust me. Okay, believe me, I know, because I would, okay, just with this a little side note, when me and my Kel would go for lunch or do anything together.

I was singing for great people. I would literally make her sing like a pony because she was so amazing and I could not believe this girl's voice. I know, I was like, you're a little show pony. You were, and you were a great show pony. And I'd be like,

you don't understand how to tell us to this girl's, okay, you have no idea. Okay, Mikkel, sing. Yes. honey. And I'd be like, you don't understand how to tell us to this girl's, okay, you have no idea. Okay, Mikhail, see, yes. And then like she'd be here and the two of you want to just like that. Exactly. Oh, God. And it was so,

it was like authentic and like, I, because I'm telling you, I'm still this day. I still think you have one of the best voices that I've ever heard. No, it's the truth. And like, wait till you people here,

like people don't even know yet. Yeah. How incredible. Okay. Anyway, story. So continue. So she was. So yeah. So I'm, I was like, well, funny thing, you know, like, me and Ryan was just the reason why I wanted to even be a singer. And she was like, you really need to consider singing country. And I was like, I would love to, but how do I even start? Start. How do I even get there? Like, is there even a black person singing country music? Like, I didn't even know that. By the way, yes there is. And I thought about it afterwards.

This theory's record. Yes, yeah. At the time, but at the time, I, like, he had just released that record. So I hadn't even known. And when I tell you, like, I listened to country music, like, when I broke up with my ex-boyfriend, like, I was listening to rascal flats. Really? Oh my god.

Oh my god. And my car, like, that, I, like, that's what I listen to. That is all of it, you know. But you were doing Whitney Houston demos here. Yeah. Because because people just assumed, because you had that boy. Yeah. So they would make me, I would do those. And so I never, you know, I didn't know how to get there. And so I remember I started just googling on the computer black country singers. And when I looked there, I obviously saw Charlie Pride,

RIP, and then this woman named Linda Martell. And then I saw this woman named Risi Palmer. And I was like, oh wow, there's a recent black girl that sings country music. And so she had like a top 40. And I was like, oh, well, if she can do that, then I for sure, you know, can pursue a career. So at this time, you know, I'm still working two jobs. The idea, but is in my head, but I don't even know how to get there. And then I remember at a time, then I broke up with my ex-boyfriend who made me audition, not made me, but I auditioned for American Idol to impress him. Yeah. Oh God. We got. Whatever. That's all the other stuff.

We do dumb things when we're yet. Yeah, exactly. And so I, once I broke up with him, like, I had nothing left here, you know. And so I was just like, how do I get to Nashville? I don't know anybody. And I remember. Why do you have to be a Nashville to sing country, by the way? It's the good old boy system.

Really? So that just, like, if you want to be a country... If you want to be a country singer, you initially, I believe, need to be a Nashville because it truly, Nashville does have some of the best songwriters in the world. In that genre. They do. They do. They have some of the most incredible songwriters. Okay.

So you would need that for the experience and immerse yourself in the community. You do have to do that. I frankly think that you should go wherever you're happy. I'm happier living here than I was living in Nashville. Right. It gives, you know, like LA gives me a vantage point and I didn't have any when I lived in Nashville. Like my whole world was that and I immersed myself in it and it kind of messed with my

mental brow. So I can't. No. Do you have to go back though after you've made it to a certain, like after you hit a certain place in your career? Do people, can I feel like all the country people still live in Nashville? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's an easier way of life. You're not paying double taxes.

Oh, yeah, that's for sure. No, for that reason alone, for that reason alone. For that reason alone, like I get it, like you're paying taxes for your company and you're paying taxes for you. It's really, really, it's a lot. So more people do it more for a financial reason. I believe some, and some people like that. Yeah.

For me, I need, I'm as much of an outward and outgoing person I seem like I am. I'm actually recluse and I really like my home space. Like, if I lived in your big old house, like, I don't know if I would leave. I don't leave. I would never, I would never leave. I would never leave. I would never leave.

Like, it was right here. I honestly, it's hard for me to leave sometimes. I have a gym here. Oh, you've got everything. I got with not. Oh my God, I would not leave. Thank you. Also, I'm similar to you.

That's why I feel like I really resonate with you. Because you give so much energy out constantly that you, I'm always, I feel like I'm resonate with you. Because you give so much energy out constantly that I'm always, I feel like I'm an extrovert. I'm an extrovert, exactly. Like I feel like I'm an extrovert because I naturally could do that easily. It's my personality. But then like at the end of the day,

I'm not, I don't love big crowd. I don't love, too much. I don't love parties. I never was a party girl. I never tried. I tried. I'm so much better at like one-on-one conversations and like deeper, meaningful relationships. I gender party. You know, like a very small group. I much more that. So I feel like people get, it's a very, it's, people get very confused. Yeah. I think, oh my god, you must be such, you're such an extrovert. You're so little, little, little. No, but if they really know, I'm actually not that way. Because when you're out like that, you're giving so much that you have to go back inside to

finish, reenergize, every touch I'm exhausted. Like I, my favorite thing in the world is to watch TV and just sit on my couch. That's my favorite part of the night. My one's Grayson is in bed. My favorite at my show. That's why I get a lot of anxiety if there's nothing to watch. A good season. I'm watching Yellowstone right now. I heard it's so good. Everybody loves it. People think it's so amazing. I think it's fine,. Everybody loves this stuff. People think it's so amazing.

Yeah. I think it's fine, it's good. I don't think it's like the best show I've ever seen, but I think it's good. TV's been really hard. TV is, right? It's really, I mean, that's why reality shows are my favorite. Oh, it's these.

Okay. What are you watching? Oh my God, all the real downsides. Oh, God. I see I will not. Porsches, family matters or whatever. will not. Porsche's family matters or whatever. Which one? Porsche family matters.

They have met in a watch that. You're this, because I don't know that, but I mean, I was like loving hip hop, like trash. Oh, you like like trash shows. Like, it's like, I'm all of it in somebody else's business. Oh yeah, this is not mine. You know why? Because it's a total distraction from real life.

It is. That's what it is. You're like watching someone else's train right. That's why those shows do so well. There is a thing that's more better about my life. Well, why do you think those shows do so well? Like, they're like the best rated shows. Yeah.

I'm like super into like succession. I love succession. Have you heard of that? I have never watched it. It's my favorite. I loved Ray Donovan. Like, some of the two. I loved, I was like, I'm like in love with Ray Donovan.

I swear, he's like, and the movie just came out too. Really? Because I never, unless it's trash. Yeah, you don't. So where I can kind of like not be that into, I have to like, the problem is like, I watch it with Noah. And he gets so annoyed because I have to listen

to every single word and if I don't hear the word, I got to remind it. It's like four hours to to watch a 40 minute show. See, that's why the trash shows, because I don't have to really pay attention. I can be on my phone, like shopping. Exactly. Yeah.

It's a whole combination. I have to revisit this whole reality TV thing, because I used to like it for that exact reason. And then I'm like, this too many good shows on it. Yeah. There are too many, but then I have to pay attention. Have you seen you, the show you, on Netflix? I love that.

I love the other one though. The one that is, how am I rooting for a stalker? I know. But there's so much on me. So wrong. I mean, cute. He's so cute. The other one, have you seen sex life on Netflix?

No, is it good? Oh, how have you not seen this show? I have not. Okay. Did you ever watch GoopLab? I did watch it, which one? The first season of the second season. I think the first season with the mushrooms and the sex

theater. I saw that. That was uncomfortable. Some of it is a little bit like. That was like, this is too much. You would hate the second season then. Really? It was comfortable.

It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was It was comfortable. I think she was actually married to someone. I think she was married to the guy from the show shameless.

Steve something. Oh my god. And I love shameless. I loved shameless. Okay, a lot of people love that. I didn't really, I never really watched it, but she was married to him. And then they ended up together. And now like season two is coming up.

I'm telling you, it's like soft porn. Oh god. Like, but like maybe like one notch below. Okay. But it's like softboard. Oh, God. But like maybe like one notch below. Okay. But it's very good. It's a lot. Okay, anyway. Okay.

But I'm telling you. Okay, no, no, but this is like, I bet you people are more like, are like, really? It's a very good show. Okay. Back to where we were with Nashville. Nashville. Living in Nashville.

Oh, no, this is what case so you. So then I looked and I saw Racy Palmer. He's like, oh my God. So you? So then I looked and I saw Racy Palmer. He's always black. He's always black. So I was like, I can do this. But I still didn't have an avenue. And I will never forget this. I was sitting at Chibo in West Hollywood.

And I went there with Jen. She would always buy me food. So I was too poor and I couldn't afford any food. So she would take me out to dinner, which was so nice. Jessica, not Jennifer. You're looking at you. A lot of people call me Jessica though. Really? You confused a lot between the Jessica and the Jennifer name.

Yeah, I can call I'm looking at you and I'm calling her Jennifer Jessica. Yeah. So I was sitting there with her and I was crying to her because I had nothing in my life. And you know, when you start going through that like quarter life crisis, which we've all gone through, you're like 24, you're 26 of the time. I was 24 at the time. Yeah. And I was like crying to her because I didn't know what to do with my life. And I knew I wanted to sing country music, but how the hell do you get there?

And so I'll never forget it. And I was working two jobs at this time. I was working at a bar and manhattan beach. And I was working at the cigar club in Beverly Hills. That was awful. I totally remember that. The sexual harassment we dealt with. And you never thought about it. Is it because of the bunch of rich dudes? Yeah. Oh my god. It was disgusting. So you did you work there for the money, obviously? Oh, yeah, at the time, the toast was really good. And at the time, I was making $13 an hour. And that's one minute of a rage with wage was like,

what, seven or something like that. That was a big deal. So I was like, plus $13 an hour. Like that's a big deal. Yeah, so it really did help. And I could do my homework because I was in school and Work so I was making tips a night there Not a lot like it been like maybe a hundred bucks

Okay, and then how was working five days a week and then of the Manhattan place how much was making about? 300 a night Wow, and I was working there like Fridays and Saturdays. Okay. We can't. Yeah. And I was, that was awful too, but it's okay. We do what we have to do.

Right. You have to do it. You gotta do it. So I remember I had nothing. I was heartbroken. I wanted to do music. I wanted to sing country music. I had no idea how to do that. And Jessica was like, well, she asked me,

she was like, well, what is it that you want to do in my cow? And I was like, well, I really want to sing country music. And then she goes, well, then do it. Okay. Right now, okay. Okay. And she said, are you prepared, which I thought was really, you know, I didn't really understand what she was saying, but she was basically telling me, like, are you really

ready to put in the hard work? Because you know, I'm like this little 24 year old and what does a 24 year old want? She wants major results with little work. Like that's what we, we want to just happen. Instant gratification. Instant gratification, that's what we want. And it's like, but it doesn't happen that way. And so she's basically asking me,

are you really ready to put in the work and do what it takes? And I said yes. And that was the end of that conversation. I went home, still didn't know what I was doing, and then I ran into, I was gonna move back home. I had made up in my mind that I was just gonna move back home to Texas and finish out my degree there. I'd gotten all my credits, they should transfer,

and I should be able to go to like a university out there and live with my parents, and it'd be easier for me. More from our guests, but first a few words from our sponsor. So I have been a huge fan of Trinijin for years and that's why I am super excited to share. They've recently began partnering with them. I literally don't miss a day taking it.

And if I were to only take one supplement, this is the one. And here's why. Our bodies produce a molecule called NAD, which is critical for our cellular energy and repair. But the levels sadly decline as we age. A nutrient that can help increase our NAD is a form of vitamin B3 called nicotinamide riboside, otherwise known as NR. It is the most efficient way to get this is through this true niagen because it's the best NAD precursor around. True niagen helps support our bodies against everyday stressors. I can really damage ourselves like overeating,

drinking, staying up too late. In my opinion, no one is too young to take it. I wish I knew about this in my early 30s. And what's most amazing is that true nitrogen is backed by 18 clinical trials and has endorsements of two noble prize winning scientists So go check it out at true niogen.com That's T.R.U. N.I. A.G. En and we have a special offer for new customers to receive $20 off orders of $100 or more using the code Hustle20.

So definitely run, don't walk, and scoop some up now. Vitamin water just dropped a new zero sugar flavor called with love. Get the taste of raspberry and dark chocolate for the all-warm, all-fuzzy, all-self-care, zero-self-doubt-you. Grab a with love today. Vitamin water's zero-sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass-o. This summer, go to the movies, projected on the side of a mountain. Discover a new favorite restaurant, your campsite, find yourself when you lose your signal. Discover a new playlist, Mother Nature.

Make your summer special at the Kia Summer Sales event with a dependable Kia SUV or powerful sedan. Kia, movement that inspires. Call 800-333 for Kia for details. Always drive safely of an N7523. The day that I was gonna tell my parents I was going to quit or the day before, I was at a mall, this is when I was going to Santa Monica City College and LA Valley College.

And I was out at LA Valley College and I went to the mall over there because it was close and I was going to get my mom something and I went to the coach store and I bought her like this little $100 pouch. And that was a big deal. That it was. Could you do have any money? I didn't have any money. So it was like $125.

Did you fly it? It was a birthday gift. Yeah, it was her birthday gift. And I spent my money on that. And as I was coming down the stairs, I saw this DJ I knew when I was doing acting too for those of you guys. No, I was, I dabbled in acting too. You were just doing everything.

And I hated it. I hated that too. Like the auditions and the headshots and running canyon, I hated it. Running canyon. Yeah. You know, it's the actor and they have their headshots in the back of their cars.

They go and get their shoes to hike running canyon. Oh my God, that's so funny. And that's so true. It's so true. It's so true. Oh my God, that's so true. So how long did you even last? Oh, I didn't last long.

I hated it. It's a grind. It's a true. Oh my god, that's so true. So how long did you even last? Oh, I didn't last long. I hated it. Yeah. It's a grind. It's a grind and it's a constant like rejection. Constant. Tinful. How is it a different rejection though from music though? Isn't it the same?

It is the same, but it's different. Well, could you get more auditions I guess, right? Yeah. It's more of a constant rejection, constant rejection, daily or like every time you're out there, because you're I remember with audition and you know, the casting agents are usually pretty jaded. Toad, yeah, I can imagine annoyed. And so I walked in there and I was like, hi, she was, I

went to shake her hand and she goes, I don't shake hands. And imagine having an audition after that. Yeah, oh yes. So the whole energy and the rest of the show. Yeah, there was always some mean like, because they do this, they do this all day. Yeah, I imagine being a black woman trying to get an audition. And it's like, it must, I listen, I've never been. So I can only just imagine or like listen to the stories, but I can't imagine. I think what's interesting.

Imagine if you had a role, if they only had one role for a Jewish girl. A Jewish girl, yeah. So they have that in the description, specifically looking for a girl that's Jewish. And you're doing that in front of a whole bunch of white casting directors. Yeah. No, I can. And that's energy.

I feel like I feel like maybe now it would be better because I feel the world has changed. The world has changed. And there's also, I think, pressure on people. Yeah, to be more inclusive. I think that's the more truth. Like, to be more open. Because if they're not, it doesn't look PC enough for them.

And so their brand will be, or the show will be getting the brunt of it. So they'll have to be more diverse. But to your point, I can imagine back then, and also even now, people have their, everyone has their own personal bias or. Yeah. Of what, I know what really knows what happens if people's brains right like what they say and how they actually think are so different so

true you know so you don't even know but I think in general it can be a very it's it's a it's a it's it's hard on your it's it's a very what do you call it when it's like not a masculinity but it's a very ego is definitely a very, what do you call it when it's like not a masculinity, but it's a very ego is definitely a very hard business humbling experience. It is. I I've never been a actress. I don't. Oh my God.

Not for me. No, it's not for me. So, so, so, tell me how additions were you going on? Were you doing it? I was doing, I was doing quite a few. And even that, like being broke and having he's been $600 on some headshots. Like who has that money? So hard, it's so hard.

I know. I mean, the whole business. And then you hit, it's random who get, who you hit, how it hits, right? Yeah. Because you don't know what the person's looking for. Yeah, you don't. You don't.

And so like, either you're looking at your mid or not. Like some of these people leave your ego at the door. Yeah, you really had it. You have to be super tough or you have to like, hit bait of teflon because it says you have no idea. Yeah. So that's it. Okay.

So then. Um, so I said I dabbled in act. I can't remember where I was. Yeah, you're starting an act. I can't remember where I was. So the story of an act you hated it. Yeah. And then you said you wanted to move. You're going to move back to Texas because you wanted to. Yes, so I was going to move to back to Texas because I had nothing going on.

And I'm heading down an escalator. And I ran into DJ D-Rex, the guy that met when I did do a movie. I did do like a movie. You did? Yes. Don't need to tell y'all what it was, because it was really bad. I'm gonna look it up.

But I knew him when I did a movie, his name is DJ D-REC, Nick Cannon's DJ. And so I'll never forget, I ran into him and I was trying to get out of it. Like I haven't seen this guy in a long time. So it's like, well, you don't see someone for a long time. Yeah, yeah. You don, you don't see someone for a long time. Yeah, yeah.

You don't want them to ask how you're doing and how's life. When life is at great. You know, you just kind of want to just have to go to the left. You don't want them to ask you any questions so you can say, oh, I'm in school. Yeah, I totally get that.

100%. You just want to like kind of avoid the whole situation. Yeah, I'd be like, hey, good to see you out. Yeah. He stopped me. Got off the hey, good to see you out. Yeah. He stopped me. Got off the phone, stopped me. He was on the phone. He got, hey, let me go, you're about to go right back.

I'm like, uh oh. No. Now you got to like sit there and talk to me. Yeah, so I'm talking to a hip-hop DJ and he's asking me questions like, how am I doing? What's going on? And I just said, you know, I'm good. I'm in school, not really doing music anymore. He's like, you do do music. Like, what kind of music do you think without thinking this man was going to have

any connection to the country world? I said, I think country music. He was like, my boy, Julian Raymond has been looking for a black female country singer. And I was like, well, I'm your girl. And just like that, my life changed. See, it was a conversation that you didn't want to take, didn't want to, I'm so glad that you just gave me that story. Yes. Because I think that is, I always say that it's the people you always least expect to actually help you the most.

People always think you have to, it has to come from some powerful source in this other thing. It does, right. And like, if you, again, this was your destiny because if you just like kept on moving, you wouldn't have had that conversation with him. Exactly. Who would have thought a hip-hop DJ would be the one? With the added connection.

And then just to think about it, like go back even further, I'm sitting in front of Jessica Bendinger and she's telling me, asking me what I want to do and I said, I want to sing country music. And then she said, just do it. And I had no idea. And no connection.

It's a prize that you even said country music at the time. But the fact that you just like blurted it out to him with the first time you've ever said it. And I said, I'm thinking like there's no way this man's gonna have any connection. And I can just keep moving on. So then what happens? He tells you what you do. He was like, he gave me his phone number. And I was like, wow, it felt different when I said it. And even when he said, I have someone I

want to introduce you to, it felt different. And so I went home the next day, the next morning, it was surprising my mom for her birthday and my roommate at the time didn't show up for my work shift at my other job, the job that was giving me really good tips that I needed and I got fired for my job. Because someone else is still showing up. Yeah, but I was still like, I didn't need to work there anyway, I hated working there. And something about this conversation felt right. And then this was over the core. I started working on it off with Julian for the last three years.

And he's the reason why I got my record deal. So some random conversation you have with this DJ, led you to the guy that actually got you the record. So what, who's Julian now? Julian really works at Big Machine in Nashville. And that's who's, where's Julian now? Julian Raman works at big machine in Nashville. And that's a big, that's a big label. Yeah, Taylor's, where Taylor Swift used to be, and she's not there anymore.

Taylor's not universal. Also, Taylor's on your record label? Universal? But, but she's not Nashville. She's, she's, she's global. But you're Nashville? Yes. Okay, so I thought once you're on Universal,

it would be amazing. I mean, it's all the same, but you're just under different umbrellas. I'm umbrellas. I'm under capital umbrella. I think she's universal. Proper. Gotcha.

Okay, and Big Machine is where she was, who also is on Big Machine. There's some other artists, I'm not sure. Like Brett Young. Oh, okay. He does some saying artists I'm not sure like Brett young. Oh, I guess I'm saying I could say them. I wouldn't even own them anyway, but but then what, what did he do at Big Machine? Was he an R? An R. Okay.

So then he got, so you were, he got you the deal of capital? Yes. So he introduced me to my management, Gary, Borman and Steve Moir, who managed Keith Urban. Yeah. They managed Lady Antibellum, and they managed Faith Hill. So huge, and then that's, but why would you decide to big machine then?

He wasn't working at big machine. He's now working at big machine. Oh, at the time he wasn't. What was he doing back then? He was just doing production, and he was working at Warner LA. Oh, so he wasn't, I was thinking like, he didn't live a Nashville. He didn't live a Nashville.

So you worked with him here in LA. And then when did you finally move to Nashville then? I moved to Nashville. So I met Julian when I was like 24, 24 ish 25 ish. I think I was all I was that was this. Yeah, I might have been 25. I can't. Okay. I'll forgive you for like okay. It's too it's too it's close enough. Okay. We don't have to be exact. Yeah. Yeah. 25 26 something. I don't know. It's so long ago. And so I was working with him for like like two years or something like that. So before you moved.

Yeah, before I moved to Nashville. To Nashville. And so he didn't have, so then when you moved to Nashville, you ready hat? So he got you this manager with him. Yes, and then my managers introduced me to these songwriters I started writing with. And then they introduced me to Mike Dungan, the chairman, the now chairman of Universal Nashville. But he was the president of Capitol Rick.

Got you. Then you got your record deal, another wedding, as you would call it. Yes. A wedding. Another wedding, okay. And then what happens? You moved to Nashville. I moved to Nashville. And that's when I get the call to Nashville. I move to Nashville.

And that's when I get the call from you. I'm moving to Nashville. Yes. But I moved to Nashville. And I was like, what? You're going country now? Yeah. I was so confused.

And like the fact that you like did that pivot, so to speak. I mean, again, the resilience, somebody's not working in one way. You figured out a way to make it work. I've been in another way. And then what a way to make it work in another way. And then when so then you move there and then what happens. So then I moved to Nashville and I started writing a country record. And it was very fun and hard. How long were you doing it for? 10 years. I just used my first albums. So that's a state last year. It took that long. Why? Tell us. Tell me. So first of all, once I got signed there, then capital was sold universal.

Right. So there was that role in that period where there was no president. Here we go again, right? But at the same time, it was like, like I said, a lot of times you sign an artist and then you try to change everything that made that artist special enough for you to sign then you start changing it. So, everyone's making all, and I see it happen as so many new artists that are now being signed way after me.

And I try to have lunch with these girls and I'm like, don't let them change who you are. Newtelvis, yes. I say, stand and exactly who you are and don't ever waver from that because they will try to change you and it won't work. And I know, because I dealt with it. And it's like any song that I wrote,

it was overly scrutinized. It wasn't going to be enough for country radio. And you need to make records that sound super, super country because you're black. Wow. Is what I was told literally. And, and they're telling me this as I'm listening, there is this whole wave. It's kind of gone back to super country now, but there is a wave, about a 10-year wave on country radio where everything was like, like had a trap beat in it and had R&B melodies. And it was what you call pro-country.

And it's still, country radio is gonna be what country radio is. It's a heavy male-driven industry, and they don't really have a lot of room for women, and they will tell you that. On record. Right, on record. And then, so you're doing all...

So, if I'm getting my timeline, right, it still is about eight, at least years, until your album comes out. Because when did this album come out officially? September, September 24th. So 2021, but the single came out before. Oh my God, I released a single in 2016. And that's that's what.

Okay, so what had it was the no. So the single I released was like the number one most debuted act It was the single I released was like the number one most debuted act added songs in history and in history yeah in history of country music yeah It was a big deal and we thought oh this is it this is going to happen. What was it called for people who don't know It was called better it was called better than you let me and it was working. It was going And what ended up happening a girl a song of a girl that is a really good friend of mine and I love her got on the verge. And it's a pro on the verge.

I don't know if it still is a thing, but it's a program that I heart radio does where they, um, when an artist gets that, they put that artist's song in heavy rotation. Oh yeah, yeah. And it's a program for like six weeks and nine times out of ten, that song will go number one. And she got it. And her song was a ballot too. And they literally have gone on record and said that they don't play two female ballots in a row. So they kept her art, they kept her song and drop my. Really? What song was it, the other song?

I don't, it doesn't matter, but it came out and that was a devastating blow to me. And we were going for this next slot and it was working and it was devastating. It devastated everything. And it was devastating. It devastated everything. Like I was on a major tour and imagine being on a major tour and seeing your single die on the radio and people that weren't once excited about you,

don't care at all that you're there. Oh wow. That's why I say getting the record deal is the wedding. That's a, yeah. And even up to getting to the point of releasing a song, like better than you left me, that was the first song I ever wrote when I moved to Nashville. And they recorded it every which and every which way.

I went through all these different producers. I'm telling you like they try to alter everything and they finally circled back around on this song. Wow. And it took four years for me to just get that. And to get a song on country radio, I don't know how it is anymore, but you have to do this thing called radio tour, where you have to fly or get in a van and drive all over every region and just visit all these radio stations and sit in a conference room with white walls and, you know, those lights and sing for them alone in a room.

And you're doing that everywhere and then you have to go to dinner and then you have to sign and go on their radio station and promote and to do all of that. At one point, I even had to sing this country ballad at a Vegas pool party. Really? Girl, why? That's where the radio station, it was their idea to do this.

And like new artists would interrupt a Vegas pool party to sing their song for these people that aren't even there to listen to you in the first place. Yes. It's not. It's Vegas. It's so crazy. And so all of that just to get your song added on the radio. And then once it didn't work, then the label's looking at you like your liability, you're not working. And so then you just keep getting pushed further and further and further back. And you feel like you're being left more and more and more behind. And I had to deal with that. So what, what, how did you resurrect from that? Oh my God. I, I mean, I,

I went through a lot. I, I kept writing. That was one thing I never stopped doing. I kept writing. But then at a certain point, I was writing for no reason because I had nothing to say because I was trying to do everything that they wanted me to be. And that didn't work. So anything else that I wrote or did, it wasn't going to matter. They were going to already see me as someone that doesn't work. So that was now, that was 2016, I thought. That was 2016, 17, 18, 19. This all was very recent. And then they didn't even drop you though, right? They didn't drop me.

But every year I kept asking to be let go. So how were you making money then? I wasn't. So you were just, did you have another job also then? I didn't have another job, but I had a husband who was my soul support at a certain point. Like I had nothing. So that how did it, at what point did it hit?

Like it went from. So in 2019 is when really when I started, I finally had my meeting with Cindy, Mabe, and I said, I really want you to take over my project because I had all men working on my project. And I did everything that they told me to do, and it didn't work. And I said, if I stay, I really want you to take over my project.

She goes, okay, I will. That was the first step. And the next step was me. I mean, I remember I was so skinny and on diapils and drinking too much. You were? Oh my god, yeah. And at this time, I remember-

Is that because I told you to be so? No, I was just being a dumb woman that was trying to keep up with the Joneses in this town, you know. Oh my god. I know. And how long were you doing that for? Maybe like six months. Yeah. How skinny did you get your skinny?

I was pretty small. I was pretty small. And I remember I went to the record label because I really, I had been writing these songs that I'd kept to myself. Like I didn't even feel like it was a point and playing it for anybody because they weren't going to listen to it with any other ears that weren't geared for country radio and I'm like they're not going to play me.

They're not. They're they're not going to play me. So why am I continuously on this hamster will? Right. We've got to try something different. And so I remember I went to the label and I had all these new songs that I'd wrote and the first thing that the chairman of Universal said to me was like, Oh, you look like you got taller. Like Mike, I'm, I haven't grown since I was 15. Oh my god. I'm the same height. I'm 33 years old. I'm the same height. And I remember we sat down and I played my songs.

And he was like, you know, there's just no room for pop on country radio. And I said, with all due respect, Mike, after all the pop music that you've released on your male country artists You can never say that word in my music again And that's where I I took my power back and I stood up for myself And what did he say he goes? Okay

That's all yeah, and I'm inside That's all? Yeah. And inside, I was like dying. Yeah. The juxtapal hungry to say that. Yeah, I was really scared, you know? No kidding. And there's a way to deliver things, you know.

That's the other thing in order to get where you want. There's a way to talk to people. I believe and they can hear you. And I could have gone and there was a tyrant like, well, y'all haven't done this and you promised this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I had to take it from a very like level headed place like I non-emotional, you know, and that's what I had to do in that moment. And I had to say, I'm not making music for you, Mike. You're not my audience. I said my audience is women.

The LGBTQI plus community. Black people. That's my audience. And that's where I'm headed. And in order for this to work, I need you to trust me and allow me to figure myself out as an artist. I have done everything that you guys have told me to do. And it is not working. And they listen to you. They listen to me. And then I slept for three days. Really? I could not get then I slept for three days. Really? I could not get out of bed for three days.

And like I'd always heard, you know, when people are going through anxiety or depression or something like that, that they can't get out of bed, I didn't know. I'd be like, what do you mean? Just get out of bed. I was super ignorant like that until I felt that feeling. Like I was sick. I was completely ill. And it wasn't because I was actually sick,

but I think I had released all of this pent-up anxiety that I had for seven years. I was holding it all in. Like I was a ticking time bomb. And the only way I coped with it was through diet pills and liquor. Right, I mean, that's what diet, I mean, don't even tell me.

Because that was not a good one. Let's just put it that way. But not a good diet pills. What were the diet pills? Like, they just made me skinny like all the girls in country music. Like I was gonna say, did you feel that you, Subcontent, did you feel somewhere that the reason

why you weren't hitting success was because you did not look the way you should look. Did you, I felt like, on your self-esteem and the physical. That, that, and I felt like I needed to, I was looking all around me like, because women are usually super small and tall. I never heard of how they can be that. How is it that everybody's small? It doesn't make sense. Exactly, you can't.

You have to be starving yourself. There's no way. No way. There's no way everyone's a zero. There's no freaking way. There's no way. There's no way. There's no way.

If you're eating, you can work out all you want. But in order to look like that, working out only gets you so far. Yeah, it can get you stronger, you could get better endurance, but like take it from me. Now this is now my area of expertise. It's all diet diet is 90%. If you're gonna be eating badly or just eating,

you're not gonna, if you're not eating properly and so precise, you're gonna get you. And who wants to eat completely precise all the time? There's no way. If you're not eating properly and so precise, you're gonna get your... Who wants to eat completely precise all the time? There's no way. It's very hard to maintain that. It's almost impossible. The day you tell a no, I know.

It was just a bad... It's terrible. It was a bad place, a very bad mindset, but I think it was a form of control for me too. That was the only easiest way to control. That was the only thing I could control. Like everything else, I couldn't control what the industry wanted.

And to be honest, I'm still having, I have a hard time getting out of that mind frame. When you're told no for 20-something years, at a certain point you start seeing so many faults in yourself. So that once confident girl that you met when I was 19, I'm not that girl anymore. Yeah, you are. I am in a sense, but I also...

You got it back. I mean, maybe you were... I'm getting it back, but I still, like, it's a battle for me. You were beat, you know. Mental things, yeah. The mental. You were definitely beaten up. Yeah. But, like, you also have shown proven resilience.

I believe it. Like, you're right. Like, after I was like a battered wife. Like, you're like, but it's true. I still sometimes take on a mind frame of like, and a lot of us do like, even after having a baby, all this stuff happened to me when in a pandemic, and I was pregnant. Well, that's when you hit it.

That was so strict. But like, that's what's so random about it. It's so random. Like, you know, like it wasn't working when you were like young. No. When you were in 19, it wasn't working. Yeah. But then like all of a sudden, you know, you're pregnant,

you're... Everything in the kitchen, thing. Yeah, and like in the pandemic. And then what was that? Like, I have no idea. I just, what made it hit all of a sudden. I have no idea. I had the songs. So like, did you What made it hit all the sudden? I have no idea. I had the songs.

So did you, but did you release anything different? No. So that song better than me. No, no, I released Black like me. No, sorry, sorry. But better than, no, no. But better than you left me was 2016, you released Black like me.

2020. 2020, I thought 2019, okay. 2020, you're right, okay. Obviously you're right. You know more than I know. Do you're right, okay, obviously you're right, you know more than I know, you. In a pandemic, but what made you release it then? Well, so I had had it recorded and mastered by the end of 2019. Okay.

And we were trying to figure out a place to release it and a playlist for it to play list, but we didn't have any definitive plan and then the world shut down. And when the world shut down, then there was the death of a mod, Arbery, there is the death of Brianna Taylor, and then there was the death of George Floyd. And I think that back to back to back. Oh, gotcha.

I mean, I saw these and I was just devastated. And so I just released a clip of it on my social media. Just a clip, just the core. So it wasn't even released? It wasn't, like, it wasn't released by your record label. No, I put it out on my social media and that's when it like had this just crazy response

and then they had, like it was, I mean, my inbox, like I couldn't keep up with the messages it was so much. It was so many messages and then I did a podcast with my girlfriend janna and her husband a while back and he They were they were playing devil's advocate with racism and It was very upsetting. I was very pregnant Didn't know. And-

You didn't know your pregnant? No, I didn't know I was pregnant at this time. And this conversation made me really, really upset. And I was upset on the podcast, so you heard it. I was sobbing when I was out. The girl's husband was just so disrespectful to me. And it broke me down to the worst place. I'm like, I'm watching, like I just saw this man murdered a mod arbor, and you're debating on whether

black people have received racism or not. It was baffling. And I, and so all these people listened to that podcast and that blew it up too. And then blackout Tuesday happened and Spotify asked for it for the song. And then I released it and this is whole thing. The next thing I know I'm seeing at the Grammys. Two weeks after I gave birth, by the way. So let me get this straight because I knew these bits and pieces. I didn't know that this was kind of done. This was totally you. And this was not the record label. And this was not a planned strategy.

This was literally like, it was really like a question of you took an opportunity or timing. Yeah. And it kind of just, it basically just spiraled from there. And and it wasn't like I didn't look at it and I didn't look at it as an opportunity I mean it wasn't even it wasn't even for me. It wasn't like I was like, oh, this is a moment here It was like I was devastated and watching what was happening in the world You just like it was but you do it. It impulsive, like I just, I'm pulsating. It was something I just was like, well,

I'm just gonna put it, I don't need to, I'm not gonna ask my label to do it. I'm just gonna put it out there and I was like, this is Firmaud Arbery. This is Firmaud Arbery. You did put it on YouTube or just, no. You just put it on your own social media. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. And then from there, everything else happened and Spotify and then this. And the next thing I know, I'm pregnant, having to do all of this and had a baby. Yeah. OK, so this is so recent. Oh, it's so recent.

So cut to now. Like so recent, like, you know what happens after you give birth. I know. So I was trying to sing. I was, I know. I mean, this is, I mean, that's amazing. I say that or not. I was being on my own.

She was peeing on herself, everybody, when she was trying to sing at the Grammys. Yeah. Which is so crazy to me. So look, let me get this straight. So, so then this is all in the last year. The reason because when you give birth, oh, you're on that still.

Yeah. It's people you know, so I was just being a baby and then on like you're doing the grantees. Just saying, to sing and to push from your diaphragm, yeah. But what I can't even under believe is, yeah, I mean, it just all happened truly. Like it went feast to famine.

It was like famine. Famine to famine, famine to famine to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and to fam and fam and fam and to fam and to fam and to at the Super Bowl, you're up for three Grammys, you're doing Sesame Street, you're doing a show with Reese Witherspoon, pretty on Apple, which will be a judge on a show. And then you're also going to be guest hosting for Ellen. Yes. That's all, and that's all, literally, but this is to me momentum, right? Because one thing triggers

another thing triggers another thing so and all because you release that little clip from that song yeah and so then you when when did you were at label decided to release the album like had it they had to move fast so as I so when the world shut down while the world was shutting down and people were on Instagram and doing Instagram lives and all they were doing, all they were doing, I didn't do that. I hit up my producer and I was like, Karen, we have this opportunity here. My name is Karen. I know. The irony is so cute.

Karen Kassowski, she's got blue hair white women. Oh my god. She's amazing. My name is Karen. My name is Karen. And I said there's an opportunity here. We need, like, tell me the gear to get. This is in the beginning of the pandemic. I said, tell me what gear to get.

And I can try to figure out how to work logic while we're in this pandemic, so we can produce and write and put out a record. There's something here. We can't just wait. And she's like, I agree. And she told me all the gear to get Cindy Maib, the president of my label, cleared it. My husband paid for it while they were waiting to get the money. And now I don't need like the gear, a lot of the gear is sold out because everybody finally got on thing, but Karen and I, within the first month of the pandemic, we learned how to record vocals remotely. And I was doing music the whole time.

So I was creating and building an album this entire time. And that album was created remotely. So that Alan... Karen was in Nashville. I was here at L.A. and we were recording through Zoom. So you did that album? That's up for all these families in your house while the pandemic was happening? In my bedroom. Oh my god.

That is pregnant too. There is moments like where I was super pregnant. So some of the songs that would depend on the day when I could record it. Like I would have to record before I ate because if I eaten, you know, like once your, your baby is super big, like you don't have any room anywhere for your diaphragm to go. So if I had food in my stomach I couldn't sing. Yeah. That's the definition of hustle right there. Like you actually like you put your muscle literally capitalized on it. That is an opportunity. You saw an opportunity because you already had the momentum. Yeah. And I wasn't going to just let it go. You were just because you're in a pandemic. And you just jumped on that chance. And now your whole career is like, it's crazy.

And it's just like, one thing I've learned is just because someone says no, doesn't mean that that's the end all. And so often in life, we're put in these boxes. And we're supposed to, for some reason, people have created this imaginary box that doesn't exist to make sense of everybody, but you don't really, it doesn't exist. Yep. It literally doesn't exist, and if something doesn't work one way, find another way. I know, I just, I always say, don't give up on yourself just because that person said,

no, it's just because 20 people said no. Don't change your goal, change your plan. Yeah, exactly. You know, I, I, yeah, you're not, you're speaking my words. I totally agree. If you're, if one person says no, it doesn't mean it, who cares? I mean, go find another person or go find another door or no right now. Or make your own door, make your own door.

That is absolutely okay. I was like, don't put your destiny on someone else. Like don't make other, someone else decide on your destiny or your future. Like you're gonna take the ownership and do it yourself. I didn't even realize that that was happening. This whole album was done in the pandemic. I assumed that that album was done

is they just weren't releasing the album. I mean, I had a lot of these songs written. Some of these songs were three, four years old, but wasn't recorded. That wasn't recorded. So, you mean, and so that whole time, I didn't know the way. I actually did know the way,

and I was subconsciously making this way and recording this album, like I was subconsciously making this way and recording this album like I was doing some music to appease my label and then I was doing the other music to appease myself. And that is real artistry is making art for yourself, not art for to fit in a format. And also you took matters into your own hand and you're creating yourself, you're actually create your own future and destiny. And I constantly was working.

I was constantly working and building. I never, that's the one thing I never stopped working. Like even when they said no, I never stopped writing. I still showed up every Monday through Friday and wrote many songs. And whether they were good or not, I still showed up. That is really amazing. I mean, what a change of lifestyle for you, right? Yeah.

So like, what are you doing now? Like how are you like now what? So now that's how it was out. Now that's how it was out. How many albums have you, like do you know the numbers? I don't know the numbers. How was it?

I know it I mean fairly I mean it's Grammy nominated. I've seen that stuff. I know. But is there a correlation sometimes between it's no the correlation is really like the Grammy it's like your peers are listening to your music and it's and they're and they, they go for the music, not for chart success, but for the actual body of work, which is like, thank God, because I mean, country radio isn't supporting me, so I'm not having success there. Where's all your success really coming from? From the world, the film and television, that's where my success is coming from. Yeah, because you're getting so many ancillary opportunities that are not even related to this stuff, right?

Like, you're right. But it's weird because you're up for Best Country album, Best Country song, Best Country Solo. And I don't have a top 10 hit in the country. How is that possible? Well, whenever you put out an album, anybody can submit for a record. Like anybody could submit,

but when they're listening, they're listening to the actual music. And just because what is working on country radio, doesn't necessarily make it good music. Well, because wasn't Taylor Swift, and it wasn't she initially consider a country music. She was. She was. She was. And then, did she really try, country music star person. She was.

And then did she really try, it's not like she became like, she's up, she does more pop, but is it like who's giving you those categories? That's, I mean, I made a country record. So those are the categories that I, I'm submitting. But they're not even recognizing you. You said that's more. The country radio. Radio, radio, that's the thing.

Is it recognizing me? But the industry does. Right. But what I'm saying is, yeah, country radio isn't, and country radio, is that what they're recognizing me? But the industry does. But what I'm saying is, the country radio, and that's just, like it has nothing to do with the actual or got it, I see. Yeah, that has nothing. Like Casey Masgraves for example,

like she doesn't have any top 10 radio hits, but she was nominated in one album of the year for her album Golden Hour. And that was an incredibly beautiful album that country radio chose not to support. Oh God. So much of this is like politics. And that's why it's just one, it's like one little variable can change the trajectory that the trajectory, trajectory, trajectory, Shachak, Shachak. Project, trajectory, I've never seen that word properly

of someone's life. And you know, it's about, it really takes the onus on that person to really kind of guide the ship and make things happen. And wow, so now, okay, so now we are, now what's next? Like, we're, I mean, we are, now what's next? Like, I'm working on all those things I told you. So, I mean, we said just now. So I'm an observer and the way this industry and the way the world works, like our attention

span is like that. Totally. So, yes, I have this album. I'm ready to put out new music, hopefully by March or April. Are you serious? Yes, yes. I mean, that's how hip hop artists do. They're consistent. You have to consistently in order to continue in my personal opinion,

and from my observations, and in order to continue to build, you have to have product. You're consistently really confident. You have to have a constant or else they've moved on. I really consider it. You have to have a constant or else they've moved on like you've got about 20 seconds No, it's not even and by the way that time for someone like that 20 seconds has actually become 12 seconds That's why I take talk is so popular Instagram now people don't have the patience to even go through Yeah, so like the truth the matters I know like that's why people are constantly churning out content because people's attention span is so little. And if you think about it, those videos on TikTok, that takes days to make. Like it's takes so much time and they're just, I know. You're constantly on your phone and that's another hard thing for me is that,

how do I be an artist in a world where there's constant, How do I be an artist in a world where there's constant, you're needing constant gratification for 12 seconds or less, six seconds. Well, that's why people have to build teams, right? They have a social media team. Yeah. Very few people, when they hit a certain place, are even doing their own social media or doing their own because it's the content creation on just that level alone. It takes a turning out shit.

And you have to take a day to do it. the content creation on just that level alone. It takes a turning out shit. And you have to take a day to do it. It's those like to your point, 10 seconds of video takes hours to edit and to think of what, like look at JLo stuff. She's pumping out, like you think she's doing any of that stuff. She's not touching her. No, she's not touching that stuff.

In her facials. Right, she's not doing five, she's not doing hours of editing and she's not writing those, what do you call those things, those captions? There's so many writing in the other voice. That's just what the reality is, because you don't have time. When will you have a full album or you're going to just draw some? I want to draw some EPs. Yeah, and then do another album. Hopefully this year, next year. But I want to consistently have like bodies of work,

whether it's in the form of an EP or an album. Geez, I know. It's a lot. It's a lot and I can't believe. Gonna have you a mom. And be a mom, as I was gonna say, and like you're traveling a lot, you're still like wonder,

but you still have the same girl. Why did you change, why did you go from Mikel to Mickey? Because people were calling me. People just called you Mickey all the time. Michael too. Really? Oh, I thought, that's cute name. I mean, Mickey, I never called you Mickey

but I thought maybe other people called me not to Mickey. All right, so we know what's coming out. You're gonna be putting out new music in the next few months in March. Anything else, my dear? And I mean, I have no idea. I have no idea. I'm just consistently trying to put out more music and do more film and television. Oh my gosh, well, I really enjoy that. I mean, I'm sure, what is the show come out?

The, what my kind of country? Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure Wow David told us yeah, well you're gonna have to come back on anyway. I will this is it by the way This has been such a different podcast for me because I have so I feel so I know you I know you I'm like so happy for you and to see what's gone on. I'm so happy for you. Oh now now But I'm happy for you because you have like I've just to see your's gone on. I'm so happy for you. Oh, now, now. But I'm happy for you because you have, like, I've just to see your career evolve and now to be a mom and- The mom thing's crazy.

You're a mom and you're like a grown woman. I'm a woman. You're not like, now I'm a teen. I'm not. You still have a bad knee or now to a bad knee. To a bad knee is Lord Almighty. Oh my gosh, but you're still you. Still me.

Oh my gosh. And like the sweetest amazing kid alive. You're still a kid to me. Where would, so to tell people for people who don't know who you are, what you're doing, where they can find your music and you. And so again, my name is Mickey Gaiton. I am a country singer also just artist and you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, I wish I'm still figuring out Twitter, Facebook, all of them

is at Mickey Gaiton that's M-I-C-K-E-Y, G-U-Y-T-O-N. So you'll can find me there. You can stream my music on you, whiteyto, and so you'll can find me there. You can stream my music on Spotify, Apple music everywhere, everywhere. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you don't even have to go through all that song and dance. People can do it. You can save, yeah, you know, streaming, Google me. Yeah, yeah, and, you know, I'm sure people can find it. So, all right, dear, you, this has been great. Thank you so much. Thank you. I can't wait to talk to you after, well, even after you finished with the national anthem and in three months, you're gonna be even at a different place. And it's gonna be so beautiful to watch you grow

from a close, not from afar anymore. From a close. From a close. I'm so glad when you saw me on the today's show, I had been following you. I just didn't want to like, what, I don't even understand it. That's the craziest thing I've ever seen.

I didn't know, like how did I get about you? I didn't know. It's the craziest thing. It's the craziest thing. You're this big time. Oh yeah, please. God, I love this. You want to see the co-down to earth and how silly she is.

Thank you so much. I love you. I love you. We'll down to earth and how silly she is. Thank you so much. I love you. I love you. We'll see you again. Yes. Bye everyone. Bye. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network.

I'm Hala Taha, CEO of the award-winning Digital Media Empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young & Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. Each week, we dive into a new topic like the Art of Side Hustles, how to level up your influence and persuasion and goal setting. I interview A-List Gu guests on Young & Profiting.

I've got the best guest. Like the world's number one negotiation expert, Chris Voss, Shark Damon John, serial entrepreneurs, Alex and Leila Hermosi, and even movie stars like Matthew McConaughey. There's absolutely no fluff on my podcast, and that's on purpose. Every episode is jam- jam packed with advice that's going to push your life forward. I do my research, I get straight to the point and I take things really seriously, which is why I'm known as the podcast princess and how I became one of the top podcasters in the world in less than five years. Young and profiting podcasts is for all ages.

Don't let the name fool you. It's an advanced show. As long as you want to learn and level up, you will be forever young. So join podcast royalty and subscribe to Young Your Profiting Podcast. Or, yeah, like it's often called by my app fam. On Apple Spotify, CastBox, or wherever you listen to your podcast.