Habits and Hustle - Episode 165: Rich Kleiman – Sports Manager, Businessman, and Co-Founder of Thirty Five Ventures

Episode Date: May 3, 2022

Rich Kleiman is a Sports Manager, Businessman, and Co-Founder of Thirty Five Ventures. Pivoting from a music management career into sports management and using every good connection he’s made along the way to build much more, Kleiman explains not only the importance of networking but how you’re definitely doing it wrong. From managing Mark Ronson to Kevin Durant to establishing business with Jay-Z, Kleiman seems untouchable when it comes to making lasting connections with people and getting in front of them in the first place. Wondering what it means to make an actual connection instead of just checking the boxes you think are necessary for networking? Not sure where to even start in reaching out to people? You might want to give this one a listen. Youtube Link to This Episode Rich’s Twitter – https://mobile.twitter.com/richkleiman Thirty-Five Ventures – https://www.thirtyfiveventures.com/ The Boardroom – https://boardroom.tv/ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today on the podcast, we have Rich Climmon. Rich is the co-founder of 35 Ventures and the longtime manager of the NBA superstar Kevin Durant. The 35 Ventures umbrella includes the sports business media network boardroom and their investment portfolio has over 75 companies, which include Coinbase, Postmates, Acorns and so many more huge successes. His actual career and the evolution of this career is really interesting. He was at rock nation for a long time. He comes from the

music business and Rich is just a really great guy and I loved having this conversation and I hope you enjoy listening. Please leave me a remark, tell me how you thought the conversation went if you liked it and enjoy. Today on the podcast we have Rich Climbing who I feel a very close synergy with. Your background is very similar to mine and but like I said much more extraordinary and I just wanted, I'm really happy to have you on the podcast. I wanted to kind of start just kind of giving us a background on who you are. He is a co-founder, let me just say this part,

of 35 Ventures, which is an umbrella company for all sorts of different investments over 75. You are a long time manager of Kevin Durant, business partner, and why don't we just start with your background and how did you even start? Because your background was in music initially, and how you kind of evolved into what you were doing. Yeah, and I appreciate that intro,

and thank you for having me on. I was excited to do this. I guess, you know, I grew up in New York City. I was excited to do this. I guess I grew up in New York City. I have been a sports fan probably, honestly, from the second I can even remember being alive. And I know everyone loves sports, but I had an incredible obsession with following

the local New York teams as a kid. It really was all I kind of thought about. I got a little older older and I was pretty social guy but like sports was my everything. And I was really fascinated by everybody that was involved. You know, I really obviously wanted to be an athlete when I was young. But I was so astute in my mind about the sport, about the game, about the level of basketball, I watched basketball, outside of playgrounds, I went to high school games, of basketball, I watched basketball outside of playgrounds, I went to high school games, I played,

I went to NBA games, so I understood where I sat in that. And I tried as hard as I could to go as far as I could, but I was pretty okay early on with going, all right, well, whatever I do, I'm gonna be close to the action, like I wanna be here. And I really chased that most of my life. And when I was introduced to hip-hop music and I was introduced to hip-hop music, similar as like from his far back, as I can remember.

But when I first got that entry into that world from a professional standpoint, it gave me the same type of energy and the same type of kind of adrenaline that like being around sports did. And I knew that the cultures were so intertwined that one way or the other, it would keep me close to it by being in music. So I started in the music business. I managed artists. I managed producers.

I managed DJs. And I was working on this documentary film for Jay-Z, Fade to Black, and that gave me the visibility into him and his life. And then that was like, well, wait, hold up. All these ball players that I have seen my whole life that I thought were the coolest dude in the room. This guy's a little bit cooler. I'm really ready to just follow him.

And I got the opportunity to bring my existing music business into rock nation and help build what they were starting to do. And then when the sports agency started, I had the opportunity right off the bat and got the support to help them launch it. And then really give up everything I had built in music to go do that because they knew how much everything I was doing was really rooted in like my love for sports and and they knew I was the one that knew the information The one that like when we did our big fantasy football league 15 years ago. I won the first hand roll one because I knew all this stuff And I we can talk about our amazing fantasy football league too because it's it's been a 15 year running thing

But those guys and that culture that I was exposed to gave me the confidence, I could go do sports now. And once that happened, everything in my life kind of connected back, all the experiences in music, you know, like you said, having issues in college and dealing with that trauma growing up, and I do think figuring out your traumas, a kid really is a useful skill in business if it's channeled the right way. And all that kind of culminated and now I had this opportunity to be in sports

and that's really where my career took its next iteration. Okay, so I wanna go from the beginning, right? So I understand what you just said, however, I think that when I was like researching you and I figured out and knew already about your music and then you to say, however, I think that when I was like researching you and I've found like I figured out and knew already about your music and then evolution to sports, what I never really saw and I was curious about was how you even started in the music business because everything was like I know that you

managed Wale and was it also like you are partners of Mark, was it Mark Ronson? Right, Mark. Yeah, yeah. But how did that even happen? So I feel, and there's a way I want to ask you this, is because even, forget about 35 inches, and everything you've done with Kevin Durant and all that,

even to get to that point, usually that, and with a lot of people's careers, is like the, is a pinnacle, right? How did that even happen? What was the quality that's about you as a child that kind of allowed you, even those opportunities? How'd you get that first job in music even? Yeah, well, you know, I purposefully tried to speed my story up

because sometimes I can go really long-winded and I don't wanna act like I'm that important where you need to hear all the details. But if you would like to know, I'm happy about it. I would. Because I like to know, because I really think the devil is in the details. I think that a lot of times, right?

People just kind of glaze over all those little intricacies that what makes people really successful. And yet, like I said, I want to know exactly those skillset, that skill set, or what that grit was, and how it kind of culminated, even to that, to there, and then we move forward. How do you and your guests go? Does your audience just talk business, or you really want me to tell you some details? I want real details.

I mean, it depends on who the person is and how interesting to be honest, how interesting I find them. I find you very interesting because, just even what you've accomplished, I wasn't just like blowing smoke up your eyes. Like I think it's amazing when somebody who kind of, it does it really on their own through grit

and hustle and like really builds those things from like, you know, it's momentum, right? Like you, you had success in one thing and you leverage it into something else and you leverage it again and you keep on leveraging that success. And that's really like my philosophy. So I want to know your story in detail. I know even when you're story when you were 13, talk about that. All right, I will.

So I grew up in New York City. And I think in the 80s and 90s, there was a real middle class in New York City. So it was like, I did have the luxuries of being able to go to private school, but I maybe didn't get to go on Christmas vacation, which was school, right? I mean, I was privileged from that standpoint. So you did you have a lot of money growing up or middle class really, like where you find out? I think there was a real middle class, but I lived well, but like if I had a house and then I went over to a friend of mine's house, one may have

five people that were living in a one bedroom and then one may have seven bedrooms on Park Avenue. You know, I was always exposed to all walks of life and I had a really incredible mix of friends from, you know, a very small age and I always wanted to be around people and I always wanted to socialize and I always walk right up around people and I always wanted to socialize and I always walk right up to people and started conversations. So I had a real understanding at a really young age about to be honest, the difference,

maybe too young, the difference in like what people had and didn't have. And I had a homeless uncle and I didn't really understand because I was like, well, hold up, if we have this house and we're all chilling, I had a homeless uncle and I didn't really understand because I was like, well, hold up. If we have this house and we're all showing, how do we have, how do I have an uncle that's homeless?

So I really was like pretty thoughtful about, well, hold up. There's more to this, you know, like he's not well and circumstance and I used to ask my dad, like, you know, I don't say where we don't send him money, he was like, I send him a western union every month and I really paid attention to that stuff. And I also really love my neighborhood. I've always loved my neighborhood. I love like the guy ran the new stand, I love the guy ran the hot dog stand, I love the guy ran the dry cleaner and I really found them to be fascinating, I had a lot of respect for like the water money the hot dog stand guy had and how long he had to be out there And I just thought that stuff was pretty cool

um And I'd really I really put so much attention and focus at a young age on sports on girls on Where you carry with I guess what I'm trying to get at is what's that one quality that you think that you even had as a kid that got you to that place? Is it curiosity? Is it that you were paying attention to other details?

Yeah, I'm really... Well, I observe, I like to watch people and observe people and I read people and I'm very curious to ask a ton of questions and I have a really good memory. And I think that that allowed me to really like build equity in my relationships because people do care when you listen and you can remember and I have a lot of empathy and I always wanted to make sure that people around me and my friends and everyone close to me was okay. Always and you know my uncle being homeless affected me and that I wanted to make sure every homeless person I walked by, I always gave money to.

The problem was, my parents had a horrible marriage and it was loud and toxic and volatile and I hated it. And I was really in the middle of it all. I got myself in the middle of it and I had an older brother that did it and that was his way of dealing with it, which was cool. But when my parents got divorced when I was 14, and my dad moved out of my brother went to school when I was with my mom, and she hates when I talk about this and says that I have a different recollection of this reality, but that's not true, because I know my memory, and I have other sources. But it wasn't a safe, comforting home and environment.

So I didn't want to be in school anymore. And I hated school. And that sucks. And I hate saying that because my kids do so well in school. And I want them to do well. And I encourage them. And I respect it. But I just hated school.

Not going. I went every day. I socialized. I wanted to never miss a thing. But I just hated school. And when my parents got divorced and I felt like, well, shit, I don't feel really any safety at home. I want to get out of here. I really hung out with everybody around me. And where I grew up, that was allowed to be out.

I'm during the week. That was older kids. I was kids that went to, you know, the public schools in my neighborhood that didn't get to go to private school and have their parents hometown and everything they had to do and their homework was do I was really more comfortable being free and I was able to like get through high school and I had a ton of friends all the different walks of life my basketball career and then I went to BU because the only school I got into I applied to 10 schools but there was this general studies program that allowed me in at BU and you know unfortunately I had no discipline when I got there I felt even freer so I never really went to class I just never went and it was so immature I hated my dad didn't have money like that to really you know that's what middle classes that's a difference you couldn't save up to send me to school but then also have me blow it

so I really just took it for granted but I was aler. So I had a big bookie operation in college and I was making real money and I was popular and I was out and about. And after my freshman year, they kicked me out of the school and I convinced my father let me stay in Boston for another year, but then I would support myself because I had this money. Right.

And I stayed up for one more year, but I was, you know, it wasn't good. It was just like, it wasn't healthy. That's not the life I wanted. I went back to New York. And I ended up really just like the next two years. I didn't do shit. You know, I, I, I partied. I met people. I traveled. I network. Then I stayed curious and I, and I really though didn't have a focus. But the one thing that I always knew would be valuable was a vast network of people, people that I could pull from it,

anything that I wanted in my life. And that didn't just mean the biggest boss in the room. It meant creative people I met, young artists I met, young producers I met, people anywhere, graphic designer, anyone working in finance, getting their life up and running, and I just stayed around people my whole life. Keep coming back, you got plenty of space!

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electric vehicles, as well as strategies aimed to potentially generate income and much more. To discover how you can add ETFs to your portfolio, visit globalxetfs.com. So what was the first job you got to, like how did you start managing Wale or Meeke or any of these people? Like, who helped you with that job? Was there a person? Was there an opportunity that you capitalized on? No, what happened was two years later Some of my friends that actually went to college graduated and two of them graduated Cornell wanted to start an internet company

focused around Hip-hop music and culture and community and commerce and you know That's the web now now but this is 1999 and they wanted me to help raise money and introduce some of the people that I knew because that was something that I had a reputation for. So we raised money and I got this incredible advisory board from relationships I had that was Robert DeNiro, QTIP, Heavy D and there was some other like random people on this advisory board. We raised some money. We threw a major launch party in the Hamptons at Mark Garonson and Qtip DJ and then we

like the company kind of went under. But all of a sudden, I got it and I was like, I get it. You got to really do the work. And if you love what you do, it gives you even more of a battery in your back to do the work. And I knew I loved all of that basketball, sports, hip-hop, the art, everything that encompassed what I was seeing being built. And getting artists and producers to interact with the website gave me relationships. And it led me to then starting in my music career. And there

is like one or two things that happened that then introduced me to the Mark in my music career. And there is like one or two things that happen that then introduced me to the Mark Roncens and Wallace of the world, but that was really that job and those two guys giving me an opportunity. And Maju, those two guys now are the CEO of Acorns and one of them is the CEO of Stocktwitt. The one that's a CEO of Acorns, Noah Kurner, has already sold a major marketing and lifestyle business and Rishi, who's my, with my other partners incredibly successful. So that really taught me everything I needed to know

about being a professional. And then that's when my career started. So then you'd say that really like your social networking, your ability to kind of create relationships was really kind of, and the curiosity piece was kind of how you kind of launched everything really. Yeah. Because you were able, like, listen, you got Robert De Niro and all these people, like, that, that to me is not exactly an easy task when you're a kid, right?

Yeah, I mean, I do, I do like gloss over it. Like I obviously, you know, I live in New York City and I'm very proud. Where is it on a connection to networking? Well, but I, and I'm also, I value those relationships, you know, and I stay in touch with people and I reciprocate favors and I'm conscious of it, you know, and I don't ask for anything.

And the relationships that I have through the years, through business, I keep in touch with everybody. It's not easy to do, but that's something that I made a real focus of my life, or my career. I figured that that was something that I could do, and then I could do well, even when I didn't think I had any real traditional skills. But what happens is experience is undefeated.

And as I started to do more and more, I was like, oh, yeah, I've done this. I can pull from that. And each piece started adding on for me. And then when I got asked by a friend of mine to go to radical media, big production company in New York City, to work on this sports show. It was like, oh, well, there's a little bit of sports that I can kind of like tap into now. And we ended up selling the show to ESPN throughout a comedia, but I stayed on as the music supervisor.

And there was a budget to do the music. And I asked what would happen if we didn't spend all the money. And they said that you could keep it. But the goal was that I would spend most of it. But I had this network of young producers that I was talking about, and young artists and young DJs. And I went to all of them and I said, look, I'm going to get your music all over ESPN,

but we don't really have much money. I'm going to be able to put your name and credits at the end and just so help your career. And I started building up this pretty cool library. But along the way, I was learning the music business and asking people questions. I would ask people things that most people scared to ask, how could I be in the music business

and ask someone what is Ask Cat? What is a publishing field? But you tell me one time, and I'm never going to forget it. So I kind of just kept building that way. And after I built this cool library of artists and did a handful of shows now at Radical Media, people like Mark Ronson and some of these other DJs and artists were like, well, Rich,

why don't you stay on it, Manages? Like you're bringing us all these shows. And then that's when I really doubled down on like managing artists now. I stopped doing the music supervision for TV and film. And I was an artist manager. And that's when I got to meet Jay-Z and got to go over to Rock Nation.

And that's really like the whole journey there. So then how did you ricochet from that rock nation to then sports then and beginning to even manage Kevin to even start this whole other journey? Yeah. Well, the stuff I learned at rock nation, like lessons, work lessons, way to conduct myself at times, you know, was priceless.

And I was managing Salon's, Meg Mill, D. NICE, Mark Ronson. You know, we had in our studio in Soho, Amy Winehouse recording her her album Back to Black. There was so much around me that I told you, I just learned and I've thrown myself into it and I developed real relationships with the town I was working with, really trust me.

And I built, but I was learning myself as I went. And I will say that the comfort level that I felt managing artists felt 90% there, the fit felt 90% and I knew somewhere in my mind that that wasn't like my destiny that I really did have something that was going to make me feel more passionate but I loved it you know what I loved being around this talent and I loved being a rock nation. So that was my, that was my music life, but finding myself in sports was gonna happen. Right.

So you liked the job, you liked what you were doing for the job per se, but it wasn't in like, it wasn't specifically what the area that you loved. Like you really had like a huge passion for sports. You loved the music, but not like you love sports. Yeah, well, look, I was managing Meeke Mill. I thought he was a superstar, the second I met him. I was managing Mark Ronson, one of the most generations, best producers. Wale is had 10 albums and Grammy nominations. The thing was, when Mark Ronson would say to me,

you know, come by the studio and I wanna play you every song from an album, like that didn't get me, that wasn't the same as when like, I got to go even to Kevin's first Nike Skills Camp. And I pulled up there, I went to like, Foot Locker before because I didn't have the right hoop gear and I was like, oh, I'm home, like just being in a gym made me feel that feeling,

because that was my escape from everything as a kid, and it still is. I'm happiest watching, watching Kevin, watching basketball, watching sports in general. But the things that I learned in managing artists and what was happening in hip hop in the enterprises that were being built around JZ and Puffy and Dr. Dre was really the blueprint

for what has happened in sports now the last 10, 12 years anyway. So it afforded me this incredible experience to be like, well, not only was I in the music business, but I understand how you build this now. How, if you're an artist and you're putting an album out, you got to support the album by doing all these other things and then all these other things turn into potential new forms of business and revenue and look what it culminates in. Jay Z, my God. And you were seeing LeBron starting to

build what he was building, which no one had done that early in their career while they were playing. So when I went into sports, it was the right time. It was like 2012. Rock Nation was starting the agency and they let me do it. Like, you got to have dope people you work with that are like, yeah, I remember calling and saying, I want to give up music. And like, they let me. That doesn't happen anywhere else. And I went into sports.

I was like, oh, okay, I get it. I get what I think is one of here. I get what we're into. And then God and timing, Kevin Durant was, at a point in his life where he was looking for change. And that, we were very lucky. And I had a real relationship with him through Wale for years.

And Jay-Z was there. Like, who wasn't going to come and make a show what we were doing? You know, so I think it was a perfect storm. And at that point, I wasn't gonna let anything get in the way of what I wanted to do with my life. Right, perfect. So then basically you had a relationship with Kevin

through Wall-A, already, your friends already. So it was like, it kind of just, that's how it kind of happened then through that whole relationship basically. Yeah. Oh, while I introduced me to Kevin in 2008, and I stayed in touch here and there until 2012, 13 when we started working with him. But there was enough of a trust factor there. And he really was, you know, he had his eyes set on doing something differently. Like I said, he had seen it in hip-hop, he had seen it with LeBron.

And Rock Nation was that, and that coupled with the trust he had in our relationship, but also how enamored he is with Jay and what they were building. Kevin took the shot with the agency and, you know, and I did that for Kevin at Rock Nation for three years. I was his agent and manager. And to be honest, I wrapped a handful of other athletes too. And when I went to them and I said, I want to focus just on Kevin, they let me do it again, you know.

And again, these are circumstances that afforded me this. So then I was able to really hone in on it. And ultimately, I started as an entrepreneur and I knew I had to be an entrepreneur and Kevin wanted his own thing. And that's really all that was, was it was time. It was time for us to take a shot and do something on our own.

But I learned it all being around those guys and like Kevin taking a shot at rock and what we built there, catapulted like this next phase for us. Right, wow. So I didn't realize that you had a bunch of other sports client athletes as your clients. And then you could just really honed in on him.

For good reason, I mean, honestly, like he could probably keep you busy just that one client for, you know, just on that, just just to do the agency of that, not let alone all the businesses besides that. But because I was going to say, I was going to ask you, did you want to ever just be a sports agent? Let's say when you were a kid or just that because that to me, right? Because that to me, right? Because what you love to do. I always wanted to be a sports agent, but by the time I got there, I realized the business had changed. So, you know, honing it with Kevin had to do with A, obviously, it was Kevin. B, he wanted that, and he wanted me to hone it on, which is a big part in it.

And then C, I knew I wanted to build a business. I didn't, at that point in my career, I was 36, 45 now. I didn't wanna spend the next, I didn't wanna spend agent, cause I wanted to build my own business. And I didn't think I could do both at that time, you know? Right. So what was the big, I feel like,

I feel like, and obviously you can tell me if you What what was it changed like I feel that athletes now it used to be They would do endorsement deals and like they would do like those types of partnerships But I feel now like it's the trend for Top athletes to now start their own funds and to own pieces of these businesses. And that's become like a whole business on its own. What do you think was because of social media? I do think it was just because of more information, the access that people have now to what's available to them.

Yeah, I think it's a culmination of all that. And I think these young athletes are as aware and educated about business as anyone that you'll meet men, women at that age. Young men and women athletes are so locked in on themselves, their business, who they need to have around them. And most 18 and 19 20-year-olds don't know that information. So you're already dealing with pretty astute business minds. Then you talk about like the trend and who these young athletes have grown up seeing. It's been these entrepreneurs have built business and done this and own their own brands and own their own rights and build things in their own name. They see what Rich Paul has done. They see what LeBron and Maverick have done and what Kevin has done and what Steph Curry has done and what Tom Brady's doing.

They see what the big entrepreneurs at Hip Hop have done. And that's already embedded in how these young people are being raised now. And then coupled in with the whole change in social media and now NFT and blockchain, they're coming into this as we have the power and we have the fan base and we have the ability to control that and monetize that And I think it's just an evolution in it, you know, and I think it's it it's not for everybody at every level and doing brand deals If you believe in those brands or you want to get your face out there is not a bad thing You know sometimes some young athletes will be like I'm not trying to do any brand deals. I just want to do equity. And it's like, it's not it's not black or white like that.

It's more about how you approach building your business. So if you get a, I mean, LeBron James, the biggest business athlete of them all still does brand deals. There's nothing wrong with doing brand deals. It's about understanding your work to the brand. You're not going to get equity and Pepsi. Some of the things you can get paid. But at the same time, what do you want to invest in and with what you invest in? What is on brand with your organization? So you want to do more for it?

Like we have 80 companies in our portfolio. We don't publicly promote every single one, but we're strategic and helpful and advised with all of them as they want. Some of them we are more active with and some of them we put more money into because we do want more equity. You've got to look at it as part of the big picture because what's having equity in a company that you don't believe in or that you don't think is going to work or that doesn't work. It's not worth anything.

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Coinbase is one of the companies. Postmates is another one. Was it Robinhood? I mean, you have like, is it TheraBody that you guys do? You guys do TheraBody? I mean, you guys haven't had a lot. I'm sure you've had a lot of dogs also, but you also have

picked very well. Is there a type, do you like have like a checklist that you like to go over? Is it more about like what, what feels natural to? Yeah, well, I'll be honest with you, we haven't had a lot of dogs. You have out of 80 companies, really? No, I mean, you have core, I mean, that's amazing. Some of them are still obviously mouturing and some of them are still building and some of them may ultimately not pay out. But I wouldn't say that we have a lot of dogs. I think that we were able to build up

a really great network first of deal flow and pipeline from institutions. And we proved ourselves as really good strategic investors and obviously, you know, Kevin being associated with the certain brands allowed us to have even more value and more access. And then as we really proved it more and more, we've got deal flow from founders. And when founders start recommending you to other founders, then you're really starting to get great deals and really starting to build a network. But I also see all these founders and all these companies

as partners in helping, you know, what we're building and what we're doing. And I use our media platform boardroom as an advantage and a compliment to help these portfolio companies and those companies give me information to help us build our platform. And you know, I think that when we see these companies,

they're usually earlier stage, it's not deal terms to really go deep into. So we've analyzed it based on what we know about the market, about how we feel about the founder, how we feel about the company in general, whether we get it, whether we like it, whether we see it working. And then, obviously, some of it is interesting and especially early on and you know I think that sounds easier said but again if you you know from memory and from reading people and from like visualizing if I believe like I could see this working like I see where this fits I see where this works this guy can do this when he's saying sounds like the guy or the woman that I spoke to at this company when they were successful. And I really do pull from all that, you know, and try to make a read on it. And then some of them,

you know, it's just good deals and you'd be kind of doing the wrong job if you didn't see that they were good deals, you know. Well, how early stage do you guys get in? How early? Sometimes seed, series A, sometimes rounds a little bit later on, but even if that's the case, we're probably not making a sizable check. It's more about the alignment with the company. We've done some pipe investments, but those pipe investments have been strategic. So some of the companies we've invested into in the pipe have become partners or investors back in our platform.

So, you know, I think for the most part, our focus is early stage, but there's been some creativity to how we've invested in some late-stage companies. Do you see any, I mean, right now everything is about like Bitcoin and crypto and NFTs. I mean, you guys jumped on the bandwagon coin base a long time ago. I mean, and now you guys have another, don't you guys do another partnership with them where you provide content for their platform or? Well, that's a good example of like the flywheel we try to create them in Dapper Labs where companies we invested in and then in working with them

and being as hands on as they needed us to be. We built up to a relationship where they could then, you know, turn around and go, all right, we want spawn to your platform, we wanna pay Kevin to be in a commercial, we wanna program and activate it. You know, your center in PG County to the kids in the college track program.

So that was that kind of culmination of company that invested and now investing back in us, Dapper Labs, similarly we invested in their company and now they're a partner of boardroom. I think that shows a little bit of just where we see the business going to some degree. And hopefully there's more of those companies and that kind of tidal wave effect is part of how we grow the business. So, okay, so then when you guys started, when you guys first thought of 35-enture, why 35? Was it because Kevin's number was 35 for a bit of time? Yeah, I mean at the time, like, in order, we didn't really have, when we left the start

our own business, we really were starting from scratch. We were getting rid of all his brand deals and it was just Nike and his obviously his encore. So before we decided to do anything and really create anything or build anything or start thinking about what we wanted to do in media or brand, we started investing in venture and Kevin's number's 35. And at that point, we were really focused on ventures.

It's really evolved to the point where the company's called 35B. There's a venture fund, there's a venture business under 35B parenthesis, but then there's Borderman under parenthesis and we've got handful of other media properties and docs and scripted series and we have some small ownership and a handful of like professional sports teams but just in soccer and so far because we have to grow into that next phase. But we've put it all under one company and because that we changed it to 35V because the venture is always alluded to thinking we were just to be Steve. No, exactly. Did you ever think?

No, no, no, no, it's not. I mean, listen, did you think when you first started, it was going to grow and evolve to this map? Like, I feel like you have so much, it's not. I mean, listen, did you think when you first started, it was gonna grow and evolve to this map? Like, I feel like you have so much, it's an umbrella company, really. You have so much under it, right? I love the word growing that way. I just wanted to have, honestly, like, really, I knew I wanted to do well.

Like, I really wanted to be regarded for doing well. I wanted to do well by Kevin. I wanted to get real wins on the board and put quality work out and then, like, keep my head down and then as it started to unfold see like the puzzle pieces and then You know as we grew it it was like, okay, well, we can create a separate company called boardroom And then it's like, oh, we should invest in this and then as you start to see it unfold more and more Start going, well, all right, well now this all works together. And that's kind of how like now we're thinking in parent company, but when we started,

it was, you know, I was really thinking about it step-by-step. You know, I wanted to be a great manager and do my job. And then let's do great investments. And then, oh, okay, we're gonna do a documentary. We'll just make that great. And I figured we'd just do that great work, we'll pile up. Wait, how many people do you have working now at 35V? How many? 40?

Wow. Okay, so how do you split your time, then? Because just being a manager for someone that's such a superstar is so time consuming, then you have this business that you oversee. And such a superstar is so time consuming. Then you have this business that you oversee. Are you really involved in the minutiae? Or like how does, they give me a day in the life of you? Like what time do you wake up?

I'm involved in a very bit of minutiae. And I don't work 24 or 7 at all because I really value balance. I really value my family. I like to value my time. And we have 40 people. Like I said, and I'm conscious of what we take on, I would never do something I couldn't do, I would never want to feel bogged down. There is no dollar amount or like place I can

get that's worked at for me. I don't want to feel that way. I love what I do, and I keep adding on things that I love doing and that Kevin loves doing and that are natural to him and I and to everyone that works here. And we have this incredible staff of like really creative entrepreneurial people as well. And it works. And it's all very intertwined. I wake up early during the week. What's early?

Are we talking five in the morning? Are we talking? Not like some nut that like wakes up and runs a half marathon? I wake up at like six, six, 30 in the morning. Okay. And I don't really, I play tennis, but you know, like one or two times a week, I work out with this guy who I really don't work out.

He's supposed to be working me out, but all I ask him to do is stretch me for an hour and 10 minutes, but it makes me feel good. Okay. Every day? Every day you work on it. Not every day. I see him once a week. I play tennis once or twice a week. I go to the office when I'm in New York from like nine, nine, 30 till seven. I go out for lunches sometimes. People come here. I go out for dinner, but work one or two nights a week, I go to the net games, on the weekends I really like, I'm more of a family man, and I'm always on though, like I have my phone on me all the time, I speak to people, my work is so much my passion that I can do it and be a present dad and present husband

and manager to Kevin like you said and do it to the like level that he needs. I don't phone any of it in, but if it ever gets to where it's too much, I won't take it up. So, of all the stuff that you're working on, you have the, you have the, the companies obviously. Do you see, by the way, do you see any, is there a, besides of course, you're going to probably going to say like crypto, but, and you can, is there an area or a niche that you see a trending that you really are passionate about that you think that it's going to,

that you want to focus on more? Well, the good thing is, when I realized during the pandemic, was I don't like the feeling, I don't want to ever feel like I have to try to keep up with anything, I don't like that feeling. I don't want to ever feel like I have to try to keep up with anything. I don't want to ever feel like I like mists or have to chase anything.

As long as I stay informed, and as long as I'm in the conversation, and I have visibility into what's happening. So the way we started building our platform during the pandemic was as everyone was starting to like make big bets and trading card space, adventure space and create their own NFTs and their own drops and buying and selling different tokens and coins, I told everybody, let me cover it. Let me tell everyone what you're working on. Let me give you flowers. Let me promote

your NFT drop, your new investment, your new company. And I was also investing in these companies too. So it was giving me a lot of access and visibility. But in terms of what we were going to do in the space, I've still been really thought, but we haven't put out an NFT yet. We do have a partner in Coinbase and Dapper, but I'm not trying to be the person moving the needle of what's happening in the space. There are people that do that but we're we're in it and I think that what I love is all of it I love the energy around all of it. I love the intersection. I love that tech and art and fashion and music and sports and and finance can be in one conversation

That was the point of boredom was that the way it looked in a room now is people in sweats and People that can talk any language they may not have finished college They understand and they're connected and they're in touch and to me like I want to stay in touch I don't want to be out of touch. I don't want to be Irrelevant and disconnected so I stay completely locked in and in touch and just want to have a seated it So I just love all of it, but I will tell you that like what I don't forget is the fact that Katie opened so many doors for me, so many people did along the way. But I did hustle for those doors to be open. I had to let these people know that I was

worthy of that door opening. But they supported me and pushed me. And my job with Kevin, if I could pull one thing out of the fire, if it was all burning down, is always gonna be what I choose. It's gonna be helping him build this foundation and his organization and helping him and his family and building his life. Because I'm cognizant of some of the ways in which I got here. And that's how much I care about him. But there's not one thing I love more than anything else. you know, some of the ways in which I got here and that's how much I care about him, but,

you know, there's not one thing I love more than anything else. Border to me, you're body to me more than anything I've ever worked on. You know, it feels like me and that part I love. But, you know, I love sports still. Like, the end of the day, I love being around that. So, you know, I'd love to do that at one point in my life only again. Would you ever, would you expand by even having a more of a sports agency within 35V and like getting other people underneath

to be representing different athletes or do you have a, and do you, like I know you have this show on Apple TV, you're up for an Oscar. Wasn't he up for, or he won the Oscar for something else? Something that we EP'd won an Oscar for best short film last year. We don't get an Oscar because we're just the EPs, but right, right, but I felt pride in it because we read the script very early.

We were some of the first people to invest in it. But, uh, yeah, what was the question? No, my first question was other athletes. Not really. I mean, the thing is, I work going to ask? No, but my first question was for other athletes. Not really. I mean, the thing is, I work with so many athletes already, like helping in different ways, whether it's through venture or whether it's through sharing a deal or working with boardroom and Muayee,

work with so many athletes that I get to collaborate with so many of them, that it would have to be one person where he or she was like, I want in their world. And if they wanted in our world, and it was somebody that I aligned with, I would do it, but I can't rebuild because we built a business. You know, we built something that

Kevin's my business partner in, and we also happen to have a relationship where I'm his manager, but I couldn't do that again. That would be two different businesses I would be right. So it would only be if an athlete was like, you know what? I'm down with Kevin and Rich. I want it.

I want to be around boardroom. I want their venture deals. I want Rich to work with my team. And if that worked, I'd do it right sport, right person. I would do it. Right. And then do you have a production arm or because of this, the show or whatever?

Like how, what's your neck with the next iteration of what you're doing? And then do you have a production arm or because of this the show or whatever like how What's your neck with the next iteration of what you're doing? Well, let's just keep growing where I'm raising money at the parent company level now to build more investments out I'm building border amount building new IP and in different brands, but You know the stuff we produce for border and we produce but the You know, the stuff we produce for Bordroom, we produce, but the Apple show or the documentaries that we do, or we have an incredible doc coming out on Showtime, but we partner with a director and producer that we love, and we're all hands on and all over it,

and it was our idea, but we still very much like delegate the production and making of the docs and series to our partners. Bordroom content, we make all of it. I'm so surprised that you haven't done an NFT yet. That is very shocking. Well, we're putting one out and we have two or three coming out in the next like few months, but yeah, we haven't put out our own. No, because I feel like everybody in their dog is now doing that, right?

Because it seems to be such a big money maker. Especially someone of his caliber and his that, right? Because it seems to be such a big money maker, especially someone of his caliber and his size, right? So. Yeah, but, you know, there's no window to do it. So like now, I was armed with more information and I've seen it. And Kevin, now any celebrity was going to have the ability to recreate board eight

or recreate world of women. So it's really about, you know, being patient and thoughtful about how you're going to enter in the market. And we were involved in so many other ways that we were in it. So to put an NFT out, I felt more of a responsibility to do right by Kevin. So the first one we're putting out is more of like an art project that he happens to be the subject of the NFT. So it was a photography piece that we did.

So there's more thought to it in that way. But I think there's opportunity, obviously, eventually, as we build board and amount, and there's new iterations of how we create one destination for all of it that there will be more frequent drops here and there, you know, across all of our IP. So do you stay in New York most of the time? Do you, is your office solely in New York? Do you have offices that say in California LA or San Francisco? What was that? What was that?

Not that big yet. Not that big yet, as the office. Well, hopefully we will be, but maybe not. I don't know. I don't know if I want to have 500 and plus not who I am. But I love this team we have here. And I think you can scale and build without having to necessarily do it with having offices.

In our business, there's some businesses that have to do that, but I will tell you though, my any life is very, I can rock with that, so I would potentially open an office there. Right, well also to these days, I think with COVID, everything's taught everybody, you don't have to be in an office You can be doing this type of Well thing or just work from your home, and it's you know the overhead alone that you save is just remarkable That's right. Well, that was the test. That's what that's why during the pandemic

The people that network by chasing every party and the people that network by traveling to every event and really not having any Real responsibility back home or if they didn't have a family then the people that networked by traveling to every event and really not having any real responsibility back home or if they didn't have a family then you know if they did have a family just didn't care. All those people that always ran around and chased the network, now it's an ad to really network, the network with relationships and real substance. And to me that's when I locked in because I was like oh shit I don't have to travel to do this. This is, you know, the one maybe so reliving of an awful time was that I really value mind these relationships that I've built. So when I reached out and wanted to have a conversation, someone would get on the phone

me for 45 minutes and talk on the Zoom while we were building. I didn't have to go travel and, you know, make sure that I didn't miss anything to show up and be in front of people. Because that's one way in network. The other way is really valuing those relationships, really having the relationship where it's something you can build and learn from. I don't get a lot from most of my network.

I don't ask the most powerful people that I've been able to really build with and get close with. I don't ask them for anything. I'm getting everything from them. I got to sit with Pat Riley and Miami for two hours, you know, two weeks ago, we could go, I wouldn't ask him for anything, because that was a gift for me.

And like when I get to meet and talk to some of these people that I've got to know and my God, like, so you know, that's how you build a real relationship in my opinion. At Carvana, we're in the business of driving you happy. And with the widest selection of used cars under $20,000, at my opinion. you won't get surprised with any bogus fees. Visit carbona.com or download the app to shop for a vehicle. Carbona, we'll drive you happy. Avaliability may vary by market.

Yeah, I think that you've said that, you've kind of made a mention of relationships and the value of them so many times that I feel like to me, what I walk away from this podcast with is that, that is like the core of like who you are and why you're of your success. So can you maybe give my listeners just a couple or a couple of pointers on how to truly build valuable,

I mean, real relationships, not these like superficial nonsense words like, hey, hey,, but really build true relationships with people. I think you said it a little bit by saying, not to ask for things, not to be someone who just, what can I get from you? What can I get from you? I think that's a good point that you mentioned. Is there anything else that you can think of?

That's a good question. I mean, I'll try my best. I wouldn't necessarily call these like my three rules on like relationship building because I don't know if I have enough cred to be able to do that. But I do think that for me at least, I've really always thought about this. There's an analogy that I use a lot like when Michael Jordan was playing and people would reference how the whole game moves in slow motion for him. And that always kind of like stuck with me.

And it was like, oh, well, I guess if it's all moving in slow motion, it's like your mind is slowing down. And I really hated that feeling. Because he came when I was anxious to stress out and like too much to handle was very stressful. So I tried to consciously be aware that like the person I'm talking to, it doesn't matter if it's President Obama. Like, most people want to have a regular conversation and really appreciate when people say certain things and ask you about yourself and ask you about your family and it's not cliché.

It's like these are just human beings. And I think that if you go into a relationship just trying to make You know an impression and to feel okay with that and not feel like you got to get a follow-up meeting or get an email or You know make sure that you don't leave there without them hearing your business. That's not what it's about like Really try to be patient and spend time building these relationships and valuing like the opportunity to meet these people and let them remember you, you know, and take an inventory of who you meet and who they are and then you can shoot a note and don't ask for anything, shoot a note and people are going to be, you know, people are going to be more responsive nowadays because they have their phone by their hand, you know, like when we were coming up, I had to call someone leaving leave a message and hope Lear Cohen was gonna call me back.

And then if they didn't, I was cool with it. Now people are like offended. Someone writes me an email who wants to meet me and then they sent me question marks six days later. And it's like, if I had ever done that to some of these people I lived up to, I would have been kicked to the curb. But like I said, it's tough to feel that way. You'd be like, oh, I would have been kicked to the curb. But, you know, I, like I said,

it's tough to feel that way. You feel like, oh, I got my moment in front of this person, but just slow down, make the connection, keep building, keep observing, be in control. You know, don't get, don't ever get out of control. You got to stay in control. But if someone is, okay,

and then what's the next move, right? Because if someone obviously wants to be, you know, become an agent or do what you're doing, that's great advice, but then what, right? So you're saying be patient. Gives there, what do they do next? What's the next move? So that was just me explaining to you

how to network a bit, right? Right, right, right. But I think. How's tough question? Because those are things that it's really, you could never explain. So at least for me, I just was always cognizant of being chill, like don't try to just be

too extra. That's number one. In terms of like going forward, you got to go for it. Like you have to go for it. You got, I did send that email. I did call you or call in four months after that. And I did stay on it. And then when I did see them the second time,

I said, look, I would love to get a minute through time. I would love to do this, but I stayed so informed of what they were doing, what they were working on, what they had in the works, because people want to talk about their own stuff. So I would make it sometimes about not what I had, but what I wanted to learn more about what they were doing, and understand what they were building.

People will let you in on that. And if they don't, then you got to keep it moving. You know, and I think that's like the second stage and starting to build that network. And listen, the third thing is there's a little bit of a reckless abandon. And it doesn't mean that you're not chill, like I said in the first one, but there's a little bit of like, why not me? Like, I'm going for it. I'm going to go for it. And sometimes, you know, when you're young, whenever I had an idea for a business, I would be like,

let's make t-shirts. Because it's like, tell anyone around me. Let's print up a t-shirt of what my idea is. Because it needed to feel real. And when it felt real, people saw it and the optics matter and people were like, man, this shit is real. He's building a restaurant.

I never built any of those restaurant ideas I had. But all the kids I grew up with are like, remember that thing you did that element when you made the T-shirts? It was real to them for a minute. And I think that like, you've got to go for it and you've got to really believe that what you're doing is real. That what your building can happen, that you can do it. And I think that like you've got to go for it and you've got to really believe that what you're doing is real. Like that what your building can happen that you can do

it. So, you know, I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's really like some of how I've approached a lot of this. Is there someone that you have not met yet that you want to meet still? Well, yeah, but I have to really think about like offhand. I've never really, never met Denzel Washington. I think he's cool as well. You haven't met him yet. Wow. Okay. I would think because no one will not take your call, right? Because of I think people, I mean, listen, I think he's a, people are, who's not a sport? I mean, who's not a huge basketball fan of someone like that? I mean, I would think that if there's an opportunity for that alone, maybe not everybody, a lot of people, okay?

You're right. I shouldn't be, I wouldn't say that. But I was just curious, is there anybody you have not met yet that you would like to meet? Or is there, who has, who have you met who's been the most impressive to you? Well, some of the people that have like inspired me, this guy John came in that radical media who gave me a shot,

Jimmy Ivey, and this inspired me greatly, J.C.'s inspired me greatly, Steve Stout's inspired me greatly. J.C.'s inspired me greatly. Steve Stout's inspired me greatly. My friend Eddie Q is inspired me greatly. Kevin's inspired me greatly. This guy met when I first went to San Francisco, the famous investor Ron Conway helped me greatly. Lorraine Powell jobs helped me understand where to take my business from a philanthropic standpoint and how to approach it. I mean I went with Kevin to the White House when Obama was there but he took Kevin in the room privately so I didn't get a chance. So I mean I think that'd be cool. There's other people because there's people like not famous people,

that I would love to meet. And there's just people that I've heard their stories along the way that aren't famous people that have inspired me. I got to meet David Letterman last year. That was pretty cool, because Kevin's on my next guest is. But those things, to be honest, the things that I find cool are like Players that were like stars when I was like a teenager, you know, I'm saying

We want to talk to me But I'm really like I can't believe I'm talking to you I'm not that you know, I'm not that deep unfortunately a lot at the end of the day A lot of those guys are really what like excites me though. you read, like what are some of your hobbies besides sports or besides what you do? Is there something like tell me something or tell us something about you that maybe otherwise people would be shocked to hear? Well, you would be shocked. I love watching documentaries.

What's your favorite, are you watching a TV series right now? What's your favorite, are you watching a TV series right now? What's your favorite book, TV series? He's like tech scripted series, like the Weed Crafts series, the Fire Super Pump is good. I'm watching the Darenose scripted series on Hulu. My wife had me watching the Amy Schumer show the other day. It was pretty funny. But honestly, I don't have my attention span is odd

because it's like I'm doing a lot of things at one time and sometimes I don't give the shows like the full attention I should. I made a decision that I'm not gonna stress myself until I'm 50 about focusing a bit more on some of those things because I love all this. Like my kids being young and being around them and like their conversations

That is exciting to me my friends being around my friends helping my friends being around my family that really does genuinely Excite me and being around my business like I get to go to I'm going to another basketball game tonight And I get to sit with my feet on the floor and I used to sit all the way up Not on some like this isn't a Spike Lee story, but to sit all the way up, not on some like this isn't a Spike Lee story, but I sat all the way up and I stared down and I wanted to be the people that had those seats. So it's like I really do love all this stuff. I love play tennis, I love watching sports, I love hip-hop and like you know the whole culture in and around it still, but my friendships are my relationships and keeping in touch with people,

and checking in with people, that really fills me up. I really get rewarded from someone calling me that wants to talk to me, and I can spend two hours talking to them. I really do enjoy that, because I learn myself still while I'm doing it. No, I understand that. How old are your kids, by the way? 12 and eight. Nice. I have a nine year old and a seven year old. That's great. Listen, I think that this is great. I feel like I've taken up a lot of your time

over an hour already. And I really appreciate you coming on and giving us some insight into what you do, how you've done it. And I think we're good to go. I think you're free. You're free to go call your friends or do whatever you want to do. Work.

Work, whatever, exactly. Did I answer everything? OK. Was that too long when did for you? No, you were great. I mean, I think you answered really everything. I was going to ask you more about your investments. Like, are you doing more health and wellness? Are you going to ask you more about your investments. Are you doing more health and wellness?

Are you going to be doing more crypto? But I think, like, is it any? I can answer that for you. I can answer that in good sound by you can use. Yeah, I have a couple of different sound. I mean, yeah, okay, do that. That would be great. Do you want to do that?

Well, I think early on when we were investing, we were able to see a lot more of a wide variety of companies. And I didn't think we had anything to see a lot more of a wide variety of companies. And I didn't think we had anything to stand on to say this was our focus. So I really just like was seeing a whole mix of companies and was able to understand a whole different variety of sectors and it was pretty helpful. I think now that moving back to New York and Kevin coming to play here, and I always let you, but having our business really grow here, and because of what we're doing in media, there is a little bit more of a focus around

some of the things we see in these like, kind of, you know, these like innovative companies and then around sports and blockchain and crypto. But we still see things sometimes that are just like, you know, a business that's trying to reinvent pet health, you know, like there's things we still see and if I'm inspired by a founder or there's synergies that I think that we as a company can be beneficial, we'll still look at it. I have a bunch of companies for you actually that you should look for in the health and wellness space.

Who does your deal flow? Like who kind of like who kind of oversees it? Do you have people who oversee in the health and wellness in the crypto, in the pet health? Or it's just like blah, everything. And then like, there's organization that there's like of the 40 people. There's like maybe five or six that work closely

with me on the deals, but like, you know, I'd say probably 80% of the deal flow is initiated by everything we've talked about. Like if I didn't get deal flow from everything, I just said, probably 80% of the deal flow is initiated by everything we've talked about. If I didn't get deal flow from everything, I just said that. Yeah, you're gonna get so much deal flow. Yeah, that's... It's 100% true, but then you have somebody to, I would imagine you get so much...

Well, so when the emails come to me, if it's somebody within one bucket of relationship, I'm interacting and then copying my team on, and if it's somebody within one bucket of relationship, I'm interacting and then copying my team on. And if it's in another bucket of interaction or a cold email or it comes through some source that seems real, but I don't know these people. I forwarded to the two closest people with me in this group. And then when we get a little bit closer to making a decision, I'll bounce some things

off KD if it's appropriate at a certain investment. And we make a decision, you know, and We have financial advisors and we have different people to pull from but it's that small group That does it and it is a lot of deal flow, but you know, it's not Inundating us to the point we can't do it, but it's a lot. I'm sure so if people want to know more about 35 V Where do they go or you do you have or like this? Think and listen to your podcast either they ought to Yeah, I mean, I you know, I would love everyone that listens to your platform to go to boredroom.tv

There's incredible content in all forms that they can engage with and I think it's starting to grow and it's In its tone so there's a lot for everybody. We're going into music now a bit, which is cool, full circle moment. And then we, you know, you can see the kind of the body of other things we do. I'm 35 Mentors.com if you want. But, you know, or just listen to this pod that you and I just did.

Yes, exactly, exactly. Well, you've been so great. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. This is your moment. Excuses we in heaven that the habits and hustle podcasts power by happiness Hope you enjoyed this episode. I'm Heather Monahan host host of creating confidence, a part of the YAP Media Network, the number one business and self improvement podcast network. Okay, so I want to tell you a little bit about my show. We are all about elevating your confidence to its highest level ever and taking

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