Habits and Hustle - Episode 171: Ashley Thompson – Co-Founder and CEO of MUSH Foods

Episode Date: June 14, 2022

Ashley Thompson is the Co-Founder and CEO of MUSH Foods. After leaving a guaranteed career as a day trader at Goldman Sachs to follow a dream around “Overnight Oats” Ashley poured every last ounce of time and money she had into making MUSH a success. In this episode, she explains what lead her to make that decision as well as how she found her way onto Shark Tank and eventually a partnership with Mark Cuban. According to her, it’s been a long way to becoming the person you hear on this podcast. She was apparently a “Boring, shy nerd,” but listening you couldn’t imagine where that’s been left behind. If you’re someone who loves a good success story, or who might want an inside scoop on what it’s like to make it on Shark Tank and partner with Mark Cuban, this is definitely the episode for you! Youtube Link to This Episode MUSH Website – https://eatmush.com/ MUSH Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/mush/ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail] 📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I got this Tony Robbins you're listening to Habits in Hustle. Press it. Today on the podcast we have Ashley Thompson. Ashley is the co-founder and CEO of a company called Mush, which is an overnight oats company that is, I'm telling you, I'm obsessed with this, delicious. I really wanted to have Ashley on because she's so impressive. I love her journey. She was very recently, I believe, last year, one of Forbes 30 under 30. She is a former Wall Street Goldman Sachs trader who left to pursue her passion of wanting people to eat healthier. She's a D1 athlete. The girl is super impressive and I really just loved

having this conversation with her. There's a lot of great information that people can glean from. I did and I am and I hope you enjoyed the podcast. She actually ended up on Shark Tank, where Mark Cuban became her main investor in Mush. And like I said, the journey is extraordinary. And I believe if you have a passion and you really have conviction, anything is possible. And she's proof.

So enjoy the episode. We have Ashley Thompson, the co-founder of NCEO of Mushed on Today's podcast. And I'm a big fan of Mush. It's basically overnight oats is what it is. Right. Exactly. And it's delicious. Yes. And that's why you're here basically. Because I go to the Expo West, I love food. Let me just give you, before I go even delve into you, which is why you're here, I wanna tell you that I go to the food expo every year for lots of reasons, just based on what I do, and I just love food.

And I found you guys like years ago, like how have you been around for? We launched into retail in 2017. So we've been around for five years. And we were at Expo several years ago, pre-COVID. So you might have seen us there. I think I found you, or there was other private,

there were investors talking about it. And so I think someone gave it to me. Or maybe your company sent me some, I don't know. But I loved it. And that was I think three years, right before COVID, like a year before COVID. So I'm really happy to have you because obviously you, was it your idea that?

Yes. And thank you for having me here. I'm excited as well, such a privilege. No, I'm so happy to have you, don't mind my phone. But. No worries. So because you were, let't mind my phone, but. No worries. So because you were, let me just kind of back up. So you came from Wall Street, you were at Goldman Sachs

as an analyst, right? Yep. And so kind of, what is your background? How did, why did you even kind of ricochet into the CPG world in the first place? Like, give me some back. It starts like well before Wall Street. So like a lot of stories, it all goes back to childhood.

So I grew up on the East Coast. There were five kids. We didn't have a ton of resources. So we ate a ton of cereal. So I've always had this obsession with cereal. And I used to eat it breakfast, sometimes lunch, dinner if I didn't like what my mom was cooking. We had a lot of chicken and rice so I would mix it up with fruit loops. And, and so three things in childhood really impacted my trajectory. The first

was my dad became an entrepreneur and it changed our life We we went from not having a lot to having so many resources and pretty quickly and I I saw just how Risk like taking on risk and working hard Could really change your circumstances? He was so inspiring to me. The second thing is, I think I was 10 at the time. My older sister was diagnosed with type one diabetes. And it was so impactful to her life, to our life as a family. It really woke us up to nutrition, health, wellness. And I became obsessed.

I've always been like a super curious person, and became obsessed with understanding how what we eat affects, how we feel, how we show up. So I went on this sort of lifelong journey of exploring nutrition and diets and all in service of trying to like feel good and be good. And so I carried that with me throughout my life. And I ended up going to school, going to college in New York, studying math and economics.

And I didn't know what I wanted to do. I sort of knew in the back of my head that health and wellness was my passion. And I love to talk about passion. That was my passion, but I was sort of swayed by external factors that led me to going to Wall Street. Like money, cheap among them, you know, growing up, not having a lot and then seeing that you could have more, I was driven by that like the freedom, the freedom that finances can give to you or the prison they can put you in. Right, but the golden handcuffs, totally.

And that was part of the story. Like I could see there's such golden handcuffs when you work at a place like Goldman. It's like that bonus is like a high, you know. It like sucks you in, it keeps you going. So anyway, I get there and I- But your first job out of college?

Yes. Oh wow, okay. So I got an internship in college, made my way, that's like a game of the most competitive musical chairs. It's like, you know, 80, 80 students or 80 plus students for the summer and there's probably like 30 seats and it's like 80 really competitive really smart people vying for these these seats. You went to Columbia right? Yeah, went to Columbia. Yep. But the most the kids, where are the most of the people from? Are they like Harvard? A lot of Ivy Leads. Yeah. I mean a ton of kids from Columbia, like you're in the FB Center of Finance

and being in New York, but like all the top, you know, 2030 private schools are big feeders into both finance and consulting. And I wanted to be in trading because I could see it was like highly competitive, a lot of risk, a lot of reward. It was just always drawn to that. So. And up, why not a lot of risk, a lot of reward. It was just always drawn to that. And that probably not a lot of women in that.

None. None. None. One of the only ones. Yes. And what was cool, and that's just happened, again, like I was lucky in the sense, I was hired onto a desk that was run by a man.

And eventually, he left and a woman took over. So she, her name is Beth Hammock, talk about, she's such a badass. She's actually now the treasure, her Fulman's axe. Wow, I'm going to write her name down. Beth Hammock, you, yeah, talk about like Stanford grad, the fastest talker. I was like, so petrified of her. It was funny when I told her I was leaving like the look on her face. She's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm gonna start an oatmeal company and like, she like did not know how to interpret it.

Like she was like, what? Completely shot. Well, how many years were you there? I was there for three years. So I was 24. And I am pulsively quit. I have high impulse, for sure. When I got something in my head, it's like, yeah, boom.

And I don't really see risk, which is probably why I wasn't going to be a good trader. I don't see risk, I think, the way other people see it. I almost don't see it at all. I'm like, of course we can get this done. And of course there's no issue that will come up. And of course we're gonna get through it. That's a great attitude to have, though. Yeah, I think a lot of entrepreneurs do.

And I mean, I don't know what it is about me. I think I saw that in my father. Like, he just, he took on so much risk. I was gonna ask you, what did he do that he went from like feast to famine? Yeah, famine to feast, I should say. Yeah, and like not in any like true dramatic way, like we weren't food insecure, but I mean five children and not a lot of resources.

So, and that's probably one other thing that was super impactful for me. Both of my dad's parents died at a very young age. Like he was on his own at 17, and they both died of health issues. And I could see just how impactful that was on his life, like how sad it can be, and truly heartbreaking,

and how it shaped his trajectory. And I don't think he would change anything for the world, maybe to see his parents again. But like again, back to like health and wellness and how impactful, like if you don't have your healthy, don't have anything. Yeah, nothing. Exactly. So that was, that was also super impactful. But anyway, he, so he didn't go to college. He barely graduated from high school. Again, his mom died when he was 12, his dad died when he was 17. He barely made it through high school. Eventually got it together, went to trade school and started working for Honeywell. Big corporation, a lot of electrical engineering stuff would have you. And after a few years of that, I think actually when I was like one or two, he said,

enough, I'll never be able to climb this corporate ladder because I just, I'm not, I don't come from that background. I don't have an MBA. I don't, you know, there's a ceiling here and I am capable of doing more like I believe in myself. So we quit and started his own company designing and installing electrical control systems for hospitals. Any sort of like commercial building. So all the heating, cooling, humidity control, he does a lot of work with hospitals, like the surgical rooms controlling the atmosphere, the air in the room, etc. And he did phenomenally well. I mean, that's amazing.

Yeah, he has, he is like, he's my hero. It's so is my mom, but he's my hero. But you know, you said something, I think that's so true. Like you had a role model that went out there and like believed in themselves. Totally. And I had that mental mapping.

Right, you did. And then you crushed it. And. I had that mental mapping. Right. You did. And then you crushed it. And so you saw that as like, so most people don't, a lot of people don't have that opportunity. No. So of course you're going to have much more, you're much more not risked for,

you're the opposite of risked words, right? Like you're, you don't see any risk. A risk seeker. So a risk seeker, I was going to say, that's amazing. Yeah. Keep coming back. You got plenty of space. Oof, not how you would have done that.

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Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. And so then, okay, so three years you're working for gold menus inside. So while you were there, like, so three years you're working for gold menus. This is so while you were there, like at what point were you're like, you know what, I'm going to go and start this oatmeal company. Like, yeah, so I quite frankly was miserable there. I loved the, again, I loved the competition. I loved that I was surrounded by really smart people doing really high level things. Wait, I wanna ask you something.

Where else did you even out of college? Where did you even apply besides Goldman? Or did you just apply there? Couple other things, but I was like, I'm going to Goldman. Okay, so that was your number one. I'm sure you never mind. Prior to college, I didn't even know what an investment bank was. That's not the world I come from.

I knew about the stock market. I was, again, such a curious kid. I remember asking my dad, like, how does a company, what is market value and how do stocks work? And I was always so interested in how the world work. But going into college, I barely knew what an investment bank was. By the time I was done, I knew that Goldman Sachs was the best one. And that's where I wanted to work. Or the most prestigious. And as a really competitive person who didn't exactly know what fueled me and what my purpose was,

it was really the decision making was around, like, just do the best. Go for the best. Go for the quote unquote best. So I end up there. And six months in, I was like, holy shit. Really that fast. Oh yeah, I'm like, it's like six months,

like huge adjustment period, like so much stress on the system, like sitting for 12 hours a day, I had never done that before. It was like, you know, six AMs to six PM, like you do what you're told, like you just an interesting environment to adapt to and like torture to me. It honestly is. It's kind of like, it is so not designed for humanity. Like it like, and that's a big theory of mine. Like, technology is advanced

so much quicker than the way humans have evolved. And there's like a big rub and friction between where tech is and like modern society and where and how humans actually are mental is. Yeah. I agree with you 100%. Yeah. So the other podcasts I believe too. Yeah, because I totally believe that to be true. Totally. So, where was I? Yeah, so six months in, six months in, I'm like, I don't know how people do it here. Like, I, but this is just so not for me. But I-

So I may win my worth every side view. Or you're the only one. Not a lot. Okay. I mean, there are women on the training floor. It's not like the 80s. Like there are women there and we're not just assistants but no not a ton. I actually met one of my favorite females ever Sarah who now works with us. She's here. Hello. I have to mention it. I have to say I was, her direction, her part as a salesperson, on the street.

Oh, God, okay, where'd you go to school? So much for now. Okay, so you're not an idiot either, okay. She's not, no, no, I, yeah. And we used to like, we used to like, almost like be brought to tears in the bathroom, just like, consoling each other. Right, right, I can imagine.

Yeah, I was just like normal too. Can you both seem like super normal? She's normal. I have to, and then maybe this is like, I'm gonna get like, preconceived notions of that. Yeah, and then I'm gonna say, I better like be careful of how I stay.

There's God knows around in today's time. But you guys don't seem like the kind of people I would normally expect to be somewhere like that, right? Like, which is why we weren't supposed to be here. Well, that's why you're here right now. That's why we're talking like that, right? Well, which is why we weren't supposed to be here. Well, that's why you're here right now. That's why we're talking about mush, right? Exactly. Exactly.

Finance to oatmeal. Like, if there wasn't, it wasn't an organic set. And I took a long hard look in the mirror and was like, wow, this isn't for me. Like, what am I going to do about it? Like, what do I do? And I could tell it wasn't for me, like, what am I going to do about it? Like, what do I do? And I could tell it wasn't for me because my behavior was so compulsive.

Like, I was a servant to my mind, I wasn't a master of it. And like, I did everything I could to find an outlet for like, the energy that was bottled up inside of me as a result of not being aligned with like my true purpose. And that sounds touchy-feely, but I was just like so wound up

because I just wasn't meant to be there. Well, were you even able to take it, like look, can you come here and like your bike, you know, in your like gym clothes, which by the way I love, I knew it right away, we're gonna be best friends. Oh, right.

But, and so like were you even able to like take care of yourself like work out or like eat properly? I was obsessed with working out. So how were you able to before you started or after I was crazy? I was a complete like I will say like completely psychotic. I would wake up every morning and Sarah can attest to us, wake up every morning at 430 and go for 5, 7, 10 mile run before I hit the desk. Like truly nuts, I would walk in on the floor with my running shoes. Like I was, I love that. That's a non-negotiable, even non-negotiable. Like it was my outlet, my form of meditation. I was, I was, but I was compelled to do it. And I knew that that compulsion wasn't natural. I'm like, I'm compelled to do this.

I don't wanna do this. I'm compelled to do it. And then I was super regimented about food, but yeah, that's what inspired me to start. Much better for it. I think of it, long lost sister that lived in Canada back then. Okay, so this sounds like, I feel like I'm interviewing myself.

That's not easy. Well, see, I love that we'm interfering with myself. That's amazing. Well, see, I love that we can relate. Yeah. So I, like I knew something was wrong. I probably, I didn't know how to articulate it, but I knew something was off. I, and so running a lot, what do you need when you run? Energy.

Like you need energy. So every day I would have oatmeal, yogurt, and a banana as breakfast. You would have that every day. So what kind of oatmeal? Quaker oats or whole rolled oats? I had a canister of whole rolled oats in my filing cabinet next to my desk.

And I would go over to, we had little cafeterias off to the side of the every trading floor and would just get hot water. And I would chop a banana up, mix it in with some, I'm obsessed with Faye, Greek yogurt. I used to love that too. I haven't had it forever though. It's so good.

You're still eating. A lot of people mix mush with Faye and it's amazing. Really? Yeah, the strawberry with the Faye, so good. Really? So good. Yeah, because you get like the creamy texture, the high protein.

That's the pro-magnitude. Yeah, the nutrient profiles are actually very complimentary. I'm so glad that you said that because that was my issue with eating it so much was because there was no protein content really in there. And I was making it like an alternative. Like one day I'll have eggs, one day I'll have

other things. Versus an everyday thing. Versus an it. That's a good idea to. I sort of do it as like a module to like a component to a breakfast. So yeah, I mean I can see why you would do that. That would be the smarter thing to do.

Well, it's what I did then. Like oats and yogurt. So I. So smart though. Yeah, so, so I ate that every day and when I didn't, and then I thought, I was sick of just eating the same flavor every day, like banana with oats, and I was pretty bland.

So I started making overnight oats and bringing them in. But when I would forget, I would be annoyed and I'd have to go back to just this dry oat, whatever. And I'm like, why hasn't anyone, how can I can't buy overnight oats? Like why isn't it in like a, why can't I just go buy it in the grocery store? Okay, that's interrupt you, but I'm gonna interrupt you.

Yeah. I thought there was a bunch of companies that, I felt like there was like a moment when a lot of people were doing overnight oats. Not in 2015. Oh, I guess you're right. 2015, you were probably, you were very disruptive, right?

Because there was nobody at that time. No, I'm thinking, like me all was like, you're right, you're right, you're right. It started to, after that, like Pinterest, and all these influencers, like it became the thing to do. Yes, I'm thinking you're right. Back then, it was, because 2015,

because I've only known you about you guys for a few years. Okay, sorry, continue. Yeah, so I thought to myself, like, why hasn't anyone done this? I really want to do this. I'm going to do this. And that was it. Did you really, did you do any like market research?

No, what you didn't do any of that? Absolutely not. I like, I got some words of encouragement from Sarah. My, Sarah was like, run. Get out of this hellhole before you can, before you become addicted. And I was like, okay, I'm out. No, I mean, definitely that, my father and mother

were so supportive. My now fiance extremely supportive. He was like, yo, low, like fucking do it. If you don't do it now, you'll never do it. And like, my dad always said to me, you cannot make a mistake before you're 30. So just do it. Like, stop.

What are you worried about? Like quit with the anxiety. Just go do it. Right. You never know unless you try. But you never know. You're so lucky because you had again, like a really strong support system that encouraged you, right? He is not driven. Everyone's driven by fear. He's not driven by fear. He has so much faith, I, I don't want to tell his story for him, but like I could probably imagine that he's like, if I can get through losing both of my parents at 17, like there's nothing I can't get through.

Right. And that's an old company. Yeah, you can go make oats. Like you're gonna be okay. And like if you're not, like I'm still your dad, I'm gonna be here for you. Exactly. And I had saved, I had saved a bunch of money.

Right. Because you were probably making so much money. So much money. Like how much did I start 80 grand in three years? How much did they start you there? Six figures. So, right. So you were at rate 24, making six figures.

And your boyfriend at the time, what was he doing? What was he doing? So he was working for his family company, but he then decided to leave that and become he became a Navy SEAL. So that's how we ended up in San Diego. Oh my God. You're like, oh my God, that's so amazing.

I love you now. He was a Navy SEAL. He was a Navy SEAL. He was a Navy SEAL. He was a Navy SEAL. I'm putting you in. I'm putting you in. I love you now.

He was a Navy SEAL. He was a Navy SEAL. He was a Navy SEAL. He was a Navy SEAL. He's a badass. He's a Navy Steel. Well, now he works at much. But he was a Navy Steel. Yeah. He was a Navy Steel. He was on team one in in San Diego. Really? Yeah. He's crazy. He's amazing. Yeah. He's he's been an instrumental part of my journey for the last seven years, I would say. That's amazing. Without a show of a doubt. Yeah. He has the strongest mind of anyone I know.

Oh, you have to have a screw loose, or you have to have a really strong mind. 100% like you have to either one. I mean, maybe even it's a fine line Maybe it's like yeah, it's on both. Oh, yeah, he it comes out every now and again I'm like, oh, you're actually nuts. So team one would be what the team one compared to Seal team six and all that others so seal team six That's what do they call it? Something Dev, Dev Group? DevCon?

DevCon? Is that, I think Dev Group. I don't know. I'm terrible with memory. And now I'm questioning if it was Team 1 or Team 3. I know it was a different one or 3. There's 12 teams and the odd teams are based in San Diego that even teams are based in Virginia.

Oh, okay, right. I'm pretty sure it was Team 1. But Dev Group Team Six, there. So it's like you become Navy SEAL and then of the Navy SEALs, like the cream of those guys, the cream rises to the top and those are the ones who go to SEAL Team Six.

But my fiance, he got injured, had a really bad surgery. He broke his wrist on a zodiac. Like one of the boats, he was at like the front of the boat, holding it down in a wave crash and he broke his wrist, and they had to, they botched the surgery, unfortunately. And now yes, I get a fusion. It's like a whole thing. But anyway, he was, he was done.

Like I think he acknowledged, he acknowledged he had something to prove. So he got through the program. And once he got through it, he was unfulfilled. He was like, I don't, I actually don't want to kill people. Like I get, I love serving this country. He has a unique story. His parents are from Ecuador. He was born in Miami.

He's got this extreme patriotism, so grateful for growing up in the country that we do. And so, like, have this romantic idea that his grandfather was the head of the Air Force in Ecuador and became like President or something, like some crazy story. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so he just, he eventually realized that it wasn't for him. He was able, it was more like a, it was to see if you could do it basically. Exactly. And then once he did it, he was like, what's next?

Next what? And he hated living in that. I think that's something that everyone, like, I think I would encourage people to reflect on that that if you constantly find yourself wondering what's next, you're unfulfilled. Yeah. Because what's next is like today,

like being present in the moment, if you're truly happy and aligned to like what it is you're doing, of course you'll always think about like what are my goals, but you have to have two feet in the present and be really grateful for where you're at today. That's a great point. I agree. That's a very good point. That's very true because you're always, I think there are people out there who are

though constantly just searchers. They're always searching because they're never, there's something like empty happening. Something missing. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. No matter what they have in their present moment. Totally.

Totally. And that's how he felt. And he thought, I don't like feeling this way. And so he eventually, he got out, medically discharged, and he started working at mush. What would he say do at mush now? He's our COL. He's the most resourceful person ever.

We just built out a manufacturing facility in Salt Lake and he did it on like a shoestring budget. Amazing. Yeah, he's incredible. How many employees do you guys have now? So with the facility, we have over 125 people. Wow. Yeah, but in HQ, we're climbing to like 26,

we'll be at 30 probably by the end of the year. That's incredible. Yeah, it's a fun, it's been a fun journey. That's a, he's so 30 probably by the end of the year. That's incredible. Yeah, it's a fun, it's been a fun journey. That's a, okay, so yeah, I want to hear the journey. Yeah. Basically then, you're like, we're getting into all these tangents, I'm sorry. Yeah. So then basically, I'm leaving, did you, did you have a plan at all?

Or you're just like, I'm going to leave and I'm going to figure it out once I leave. Well, I truly did not have any real plan. No. Planning was not in my nature. I was really driven by vision and impulse. And yeah, I'm not a process oriented person. I don't like stick to plans. I'm very much so more of a wanderer, I think, and like to, I think one of my superpowers

is like seeing dots connecting those dots, etc. So I could, what I did have was like a really crystal clear vision for mush, but what I didn't have was a plan on how to achieve that vision. Right, right, right, right, it makes sense. That's what I've had to learn all the way. And I think that's been a huge learning curve for me. Just like, like in order to execute, there's sequencing, there's process, there's a lot that goes into it, beyond just having the vision. Like, I can dream really big, but you have to start small. And I think that was one of, you know, one of the things that enabled us to just get off the ground, like a ton of humility. You go from like making six figures, sitting in this cozy, you know,

one of the most beautiful office buildings in Manhattan, you know, friends, whatever, to quite literally making and selling oats out of my kitchen into farmer's markets with people telling me that that was crazy. Right, and that's exactly it, right? Exactly, I mean, people were like, what? Like they didn't even understand the concept.

I had people come up to me and like, is it garlic? Like, what is this? Like, what are you doing? Like, it was wild. It was a wild journey. And again, it's like that vision and being steadfast with like, no, this is going to work. I know it's going to work.

It's like that gut and intuition, which I think I've always, I've had to some degree. So then did you start, like you said in your kitchen, did you have a recipe to follow? It's a heck no. So like, how did you, like, so like, what did you start like you said in your kitchen, did you have a recipe to follow? Heck no. So like how did you like so like what did you do? You just basically were like one you quit one day the next day you're like are you just making it and then putting in the fridge and check and see if it's good. Making a complete yes like making a complete mess in the kitchen. The first product had yogurt in it. So I literally made the concoction

that I was making at Goldman with the yogurt would have you and that was the first version and then I gave it to a couple of people to try and they're like, this is so gross. Right? Oh my gosh. Okay, I gotta figure this out. But so the beauty of starting in farmer's markets,

which are God bless everyone who's ever sold anything in a farmers market. It is so intense. Like a hard business. It's hard. It looks hard. I have PTSD from farmers. I can imagine you got to set up every day.

You got to break down. The set up is, and thank God, I've always been a very physical person. Like it was so physical so so physical it got to the point where we were Making the product and selling it and we didn't we had a very short shelf life in the beginning So we had to make it and then sell it and if you didn't wait what do you pray? You have to waste a lot. No, so we got clever. I mean truly resourceful. We were nuts

Any product that didn't sell that we knew was going to expire out, we started to bake with it. And at the farmers markets, we would sell like these muffins made with mush that was left over that would have expired. And people like were more thrilled about the muffins and the mush, but I was like, I was so done. Yeah. And I like, I think about it now. I'm like, should we have done the muffins and the mush, but I was like, I was so deli. I said on, yeah, and I think about it now, I'm like, should we have done the muffins? Like, should we have scaled that? And maybe down the line, but no, like, why?

Why didn't you though? I see a bigger vision for what we have today, I think. Like, spoonable nutrition. It's like, it's like the yogurt version of like oatmeal in yogurt form, essentially. I just think that's a much bigger opportunity. There's a lot more consumption and occasions to drive there than a traditional muffin. This is your world, and that's why I'm your here. The numbers are interesting. Can you talk about that? I'm just very curious because everyone could just grab

and go a muffin with your product, you need a spoon. Like you said, and it's much more, it could be messier than just eating and going or... That's true. On a shelf life. To people, so muffins are, I mean, they're usually eaten for breakfast. The cool thing about mush is people are eating it for breakfast as a pre-earth post-workout

snack. It has more of a health halo, I would say. Definitely. They have it for dessert. The chocolate, people are constantly saying, this has become my new dessert. Why? Because it's carbs and fat, like a little bit of healthy fat, which mimics ice cream. But it's like less, you feel, it's like, it's so, it's so, it's a satiation of it,

right? Because you feel like you're having something that's like, it's like, it feels very dessert like that's the problem a little bit with me eating it for breakfast because I, I feel like it's a little indulgent. It is indulgent, right? Yeah. That's actually very true. And I have had it for desserts before, just for that very reason. Yeah. So you're right.

So there's more opportunity for someone. Yeah, there are more occasions. But what about the fact that, and people have talked about this a lot, that when you have a product that needs to be refrigerated. It's tough. It's much more difficult. It is. It's difficult. Yeah. I mean cold cold supply chain is difficult. Building brands in refrigerated is much more difficult. Like one of the practical ways of building a brand is in the store with huge displays, but there's limited refrigeration space. That's right. And there's limited availability to procure huge refrigerators for a big shelf block versus

like you see these water companies like Liquid Death and they just have a bunch of cases stacked to the ceiling. You can't do that, but that is an effective way to build brand. So you have to get creative. But I think I'm the type of person. I've reflected on this and I've figured this out about myself. I've never thought anything in life should be easy. I don't expect things to be easy, and I like to sign up for things that are hard,

that I perceive as hard. I like doing hard things well. Yeah. I think that's like, um, just, yeah. Jeff Bezos says that. It's like, that's how you build reputation. You build reputation by doing hard things well. And again, like I was never able to articulate that until recently. I think that's part of just like, it's in my DNA and so I like the challenge of like, oh well, not only is it new and better for you and blah, blah, blah, but it's really hard because it's in the refrigerator.

Right, so in the refrigerator, there's like all these other like, I can't even imagine the different challenges, with COVID and the supply chain and having having it to be in the cool. I mean, I can't even imagine. Yeah, freight. The freight stuff. Oh my gosh.

I mean, when freight overnight doubles triples, it used to be like three grand for a container from overseas to here for goods. And it shot up to like 13, 14 grand. And like, that just puts a ton of pressure. But again, like that's, I think that's when, and don't get me wrong, I bet some people, my team would have been like, actually was crazy during COVID, but like I think I thrive in the challenge of it. In the challenge of it. The problem solving, like the grinding it out,

it's just always been in my nature. So like it's like, oh, hard, okay, bring it on. Yeah, exactly. I like to feel the pain. There's comfort in the discomfort. I love that. So then, okay, so now you're at the farmer's market. Who's helping you, your boyfriend helping you? No, so I had a co-founder.

Who was your co-founder, by the way? Her name's Kat. She's an amazing woman. She actually, she was the one who introduced me to my fiance. They went to college together. Oh, okay. And we met at Goldman. So we were in training together, new hire training.

They sat us in alphabetical order by last name, talk about like, that's so Goldman. Oh wow. So our last name was Thomas, mine's Thompson. We sat together for six weeks and then she went to Europe to work overseas for them. And then she quit, moved to Miami. Like I said, she was an athlete in college. So as my fiance, they knew each other then and then they reconnected and Miami and became

really, really good friends. I went down to visit her and she introduced us. And so the three of us moved out to California, Guy to be, you know, go become a Navy SEAL, and then Kat and I to start this business. And I actually credit her for a lot of the flavors. Like, she's a true, she's a true foodie. I'm, I, I used to, my thoughts on food have evolved a lot, but I used to eat to live,

not live to eat. Whereas she found much more enjoyment in cooking and experimenting with different flavors and textures. So she was instrumental in helping to develop a lot of the flavors, which I'm grateful for. She's awesome. So she not involved anymore? She's not. So she crazy, 28 years old, had a really huge health scare. Some heart problems went through a really traumatic experience,

had to get some surgeries. It was pretty brutal. And like we started the company to make the world a healthier place. Like the big problem to solve in my eyes is human health. Like environmental health, totally get it, but like look at how many humans are suffering and especially in America.

Like we are killing ourselves as a result of what we eat and what we do or don't do. And it's such a massive problem. And when the lifestyle of building this business coupled with this unfortunate event in her life and circumstance collided and she became unhealthy, it was like, okay, my health is what matters. So let me go focus on that.

It truly took 24, seven focus and care to get back on track for her. So she exited the business, but she's still the biggest fan. She's part of it still. When did she leave then? How long ago? That was in late 2018 into 2019. Oh, right.

Okay. So it's been a while. Yeah. So, okay. So then how did you end up on Shark Tank? So then here you are at the Farmer's Market. So you're at the Farmer's Market. We're going back that part. Yeah. And then because Mark Cuban was your investor. Yeah. So I want to hear that story. So, okay. Here, but okay. So this is very interesting for me because I think for a lot of people who are fearful of starting something and not following what they want to do. And then I'd like to hear the evolution of it because I think it's super important for people and for myself also to understand how it worked with you. So here you are at the farmer's market and you're making your stuff.

Then what happens? Did you have any investor yet? Do you have any, are you just making your own bootstra... Yeah, you're just making your own... A vow to poverty. Right. Okay, so you're just making a bunch, you're showing up at the farmer's market,

where you're going to. Every single one you could think of in San Diego. Okay, we were at the little Italy farmers market, La Jolla, we were just Santa Fe, Pacific Beach everywhere. And when you were just going there, going there and selling this product. And honestly, we were probably there for a little too long, but the most important... I think... Was it called mush, by the way?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mush. Mush, I call it mushroom. No, mush, mush, mush. You can do whatever you please. Yeah. much, much, you can do whatever, whatever you please.

Yeah, so we were at the farmers markets and we were gathering a lot of consumer insights. Like what do people like about the product, the format, whatever. It was an amazing experience taught us a lot. And one of the things that taught us was no one has a fucking clue what overnight oats are like no one knows what this is and we were like Educating the world is like how are we gonna educate people in like a a massive way? Yeah, there's like a big job to be done here How are we gonna do this with no money? There's just no way and so We we had started to sell our product in like cafes and gyms and coffee shops, like little one-offs, and one of the producers of Shark Tank saw our product and loved it. It might have even been, we launched in Whole Foods in 10 stores in the Southern Pacific

region, like in California, in March of 2017. And by May, someone had reached out from Shark Tank asking if we would audition. So we audition, and they were like, your co-founders great, you're pretty boring. Like truly, and I, I mean, I'm, I'm a hardcore introvert. So like, you are? I am. I really am. I am.

So this, you don't see me, you see me? You see me. I've evolved. I've really have evolved. I mean, back then, I was like, not afraid of my own shadow. Just like so shy and nerdy and like uncomfortable. So anyway, they were like, you guys can come on, but she needs to up the energy.

Really? Yes. Yeah, I used to be my dad's business, my dad had a business partner at one point. But you're fearless. That's what's so interesting. What a dice component. Because on intense, yeah, intense,

but I've always been quiet and shy and nerdy. You're like a strong silent type, basically. Yes, I would say so. Like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I will fight through anything to get to a better outcome, like anything. And it's not only to steal, get out of it a long so well. We say it's like in violent love because it's just like, there's toiling there for sure. And that's how it was in my house growing up too. Like we fought through things. So there's some sort of comfort in that. So then, okay, so here we are. So they are said to you, or whatever, you're, they say, okay, we're gonna go on, but you have to kind of up the energy.

Up the energy. Yeah, like you got to be Hollywood. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm not Hollywood. Yeah, I mean, like what you see is what you get. So I kind of like, I tried to fake it to get onto the show finally, but then like once we were there, I was just like, back to my old self. But it was the most amazing experience. So we get on and honestly, it was, I was, it was the most nerve-wracking experience

of my life. I was truly, I was shaking. And I wore the worst outfit. I'm like, regret. I tried to not regret anything, but bad outfit. I'm like, and I had these like flowy pants, which I never wear. And my legs quivering and they're just shaking on camera.

And I'm like, what? So bad. I also, so my fiance, he bought me like my first ever pair of designer shoes, a pair of Gucci slides. And I wear these, these gold Gucci slides, I still have my never wear them, but I wore them on the show and I walk out and the guest shark was Rohan, who's big name in CPG. And he has brands like, just say like he did the vitamin water ever was very famous for that. He got it, he's very famous for vitamin water,

pop chips, you know, health aid, all these, yeah, these awesome brands. Now the poppy and poppy, yep. So I get out, we walk out and it's like silent for 30 seconds, which feels like three hours. Like they like pan the room and whatever the cameras and the first thing that comes out and they didn't put it on the show, but Rohan goes, nice shoes. And I'll never forget it. I'm like, I'll never forget it. I'm like, yes. And so yeah, we pitched what have you

and a lot of the sharks. I think what they could, like everyone was so excited for us, regardless of whether they liked the product or not, they were so excited because they could tell that it was like authentic, that we were putting our hearts and souls into it. We had put all of our money into it.

We emptied our piggy banks into this. How much money did you guys put if you're own into it? Eventually everything. I put everything in. But at this point, pretty much everything. Like we needed money. Yeah.

So we were there to make a deal so long as we didn't get taken advantage of. Right. So how much by the way, though did you guys invest so far, though, you and your partner? I think probably like over $50,000 each. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. And then like, I think we, we were self-manufacturing. We needed to buy equipment. So I asked my dad for some money, which, you know, he's been so supportive. So, so we had you call those kitchens? We were at a commercial kitchen. Yeah, okay.

And then eventually that was like a big milestone for us that when we got our own place, it's so funny looking at the pictures. I'm like, wow. It's like, it's like this dingy, like close to the Mexican border, this like super dingy, I mean warehouse, like, I think like mechanics,

like we're on either side of us, like not food grade and we're like in there mixing oats with their hands, shouldn't say that on it. No, but it's okay. I mean, that's what people do. How many flavors at this point did you have? Henry skews one? Probably like five.

Oh, you'd five already. Yeah, yeah. I think we had five at the time. A few of them don't exist anymore. We had cinnamon raisins and peanut butter and we realized that raisins are out. People just don't like raisins. I don't like raisins. I'm glad to hear this. Really, I am.

Did you guys have a buzz around you at this point? No. We were like, you selling even? The ugly stepchild. Did you guys have a buzz around you at this point in this, at all? We were like, you selling even? The ugly stepchild, I don't know. Yeah, we didn't have the buzz. Were you selling though within the stores at your event?

Oh yeah, yeah, we were. There were definitely glimmers of product market fit. It was like, it was working with a ton of support from us. So like, once we launched in Whole Foods, we were demoing in the store. Yeah, I was, we were there, we were demo queens. Like really? They're just pounding, and again, I was so shy. They would ask, who started the company?

I'd be like, this woman named... I don't want to be sorry. You don't want to start talking about it. No, like I'm just I don't know. I don't like being in the limelight. And I don't like I don't know. I've gotten now I can understand the beauty of telling the story and being proud of what we've cultivated. But it's so much greater than me.

Like there are so many people behind it. I'm like, it's not me. It's the team. It's the world's like conspired attitude. Okay, so I'm sorry. So get the book to Shark Tank. You're in there. Rohan loves your shoes.

And then we have- Rohan loves my shoes, but he doesn't love the deal. So he starts like, how much did you ask for? We, I can't believe this. Okay. We asked for $300,000 in exchange for 10% of the company. So $3 million valuation and Mark,

like he was, I will never forget it. He's like, I'm gonna let everyone else speak before me, but then I'm gonna like do the deal. So he was like super confident. And so he lets everyone like, you know, either I'm out or I'm totally in. This is what I like, I'm going to give you what you want. Then Rohan's like, look, I add so much value. Like in so many words, like I add a ton of value because I know this space, like, you know, if you want to blow up like pop chips,

If you want to blow up like pop chips, then you should partner with me. And we're like, okay, but like what deal? And he wanted more equity for less, or I don't know, some deal that we didn't want to do. And Mark was like, don't do that deal. I'll give you what you want in an unlimited line of credit. And like, you know, it's Hollywood, so you're like, are you serious? Like, no one has an unlimited line of credit, but we loved, like, regardless of like the actual tactics, we loved the fact that he was so willing to lean in and just be so supportive. And at one point, like, they start bickering Rohan and Mark

and Rohan's like, do you wanna be a true success like pop trips or change the world? And we were like, no, we wanna change the world. Like we wanna do something good. It's not about the money. We wanna truly solve a problem. And the rest is history. Mark is phenomenal.

I mean, he's unbelievable. He is so supportive. I can email him at any time of the day and within two minutes. Like his responses to me are quicker than anyone else's. He's amazing. That's, can I tell you, you're like one of the, I think you're the fourth person to say that to me.

Yeah. He's actually been an investor in a couple other people's businesses that I know, the scroll I think she has like a vegan pastrami or something, I don't remember what it is. Jenny. Yeah, Jenny. She's so sweet.

Actually, you remind me, she just emailed me asking about something. I need to email her. Oh, really? That is so funny. I remember meeting her somewhere and she was telling me all about her vegan pastrami. Yeah.

And then like next thing, you know, she's going, she's making a deal with Mark Cuban on Shark Tank. Yeah. But everyone says that he's amazing. He really is. I always tell people because people love to ask about Shark Tank, Mark Cuban. Yeah. Well, he's supposed to be on this podcast, by the way, twice.

And it's always like rescheduled. You can tell him that I really would love him to be on this podcast. I'll, I'm going to email him. Could you, and you need to get over here right now. He said he's going to my friend. He will. He will. He will. It takes him. Yeah. I don't know. I want to promise you that, but I, I do like holding my promises. I'll work on him together. Because I did actually, he emailed me back. He would have so much fun. Oh my, but for me, he's got great stuff to share.

He's awesome. He's amazing of all those sharks. Oh yeah. He's the real deal. He's the real deal. And he's like, he makes the show now. Like he's the star of that entire, he does. He can be like such a ham sometimes. But if everyone wants to work with him...

Yeah, I mean, because he's awesome. But he's been in Crywire, I always tell people, like, I've gone to the Mark Cuban School of Business. It's truly just sound advice and strategic advice. He won't get into the tactics of things like how to get this done, but he's like, here's how the world works and here's what you should be thinking about

when making XYZ decision. Like whenever it's really hard, he's really great. And that's what you want. That's what you want. More from our guest, but first a few words from our sponsor. By now, you've probably heard all about cryptocurrencies. You might even already be investing in them. But did you know that you can invest in cryptocurrencies through your retirement account?

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And for listeners of the show, Everly Well is offering a special discount of 20% off and at home lab test at EverlyWell.com slash habits. That's Everly Well, EVERrlywll.com slash habits for 20% off your next at-home lab test. So then he made this deal with you because a lot of times people make these deals on sharp-tank and they don't go through. Yeah, they don't go through. Well, because they don't pass in diligence. Like Mark wants to do these deals. I mean, he's a businessman.

Right. He, 10% of the company for 300 grand, like he wants to do these yields. I mean, he's a businessman. Right. He, 10% of the company for 300 grand, like he wants to get that deal done. He knows that that's venture, the probability of success, like the expected payout is beyond. Beyond. Yeah, so he wants to get it done

and we pass diligence. I mean, we're really honest about what we did. Yeah, like I think a lot of people get up there and I think so too. They just don't even, I don't know, like maybe they don't know better and then it just doesn't go through. It doesn't happen. Yeah.

And like he was, yeah, so we really wanted to get it done. He really wanted to get it done. We closed and we never looked back. It was so, I remember the day the money hit the account and I was like, no. Like at Goldman, you see these like, you know, we're doing billion dollar transactions. Exactly. But it looks like funny money when it was like in the Bank of America Bank account, I'm like, there's no way. This is like too cool. And then like, did that just catapult you guys? Because it did. It like, it kind of like loosened up. I think of capital is like too cool. And then like, did that just catapult you guys? Because it did.

It like, it kind of like loosened up. I think of capital is like, like either constricting or loosening up the operating environment. And I think constraints in the operating environment can really breed creativity. But like, there comes a point where it's so constricting that you can almost

feel suffocated a little bit. Like we don't know, we can't get out of our own way. And that cushion of capital allowed us, you know, capital increases your risk tolerance and it can enable you to dream a little bit bigger to think about doing things a little bit differently, to take on a little more risk. And that's exactly what it did. It was just enough to make us feel like, okay, this is the next thing we need to do.

Whereas I think before we were kind of like, we need this machine, but we don't have the money, and we don't trust any of these investors, and blah, blah, blah. Right, right. You know, we haven't raised a lot, partially because I'm so skeptical of people. Yeah, you're discerning. Yeah, that's, you're in the kids.

You should see. And, you know, yeah, I take what I do very seriously, and I'm very discerning about who's around the table and for what reason. And I've just, I've always wanted it to sort of unfold organically because I think that that's the best way it should unfold, not like force fit anything. I think that's where a lot of founders go wrong. It's like they just get ahead of themselves and it starts to become like uncontrollable. That's I think happens a lot of the time. A lot. It's sad too.

And it's sad because they mean well. They're like excited. Exactly. And you don't know what you don't know in a lot of times. You don't know. You don't know what you don't know. And then like you, you know, you have unfortunately you learn afterwards, right? That becomes your mistake that you have to learn from.

Totally. And you can't unwind it. Like canton wind it. Once you raise, you can't go back. And that was something like, again, back to, you know, Bezos, I, he's incredible. So bright. Has a lot of great like frameworks for decision making,

which I think is really important. And one of his is the one-way door decisions. Like, is it a one-way door decision or a two-way door? If it's a two-way door, you can go through it. And if it's not the right door to go through, you go right back and you sort of, of course, correct. But one-way door, like you literally cannot reverse. What's a one-way door, you know, having a child?

What's a one-way door, raising capital? So like, make sure when you walk through that door that it's with every ounce of conviction you have because you can't reverse it. That's so true. It's such a wonderful piece of advice too. Yeah. He does have a lot of these because I mean, I mean, he's so bright. Brilliant. I mean, bright is like an understatement, right? Yeah. And so when your show hit, when your show was on TV though. Yeah, it aired in November of 2017. So we had launched in Whole Foods in March and then it aired in November. It was wild. Was it may have like, did you crash the internet, like the water website? In two days,

we got half a million dollars worth of orders and we had no way of fulfilling even a tenth of it. It was, that was a traumatic time actually. So we got, we aired right around Thanksgiving. We didn't finish shipping those orders that had come in in those two days until the end of March. Wow. Because we had no supply. Back then. So like we had run out of cups. It was the haul. I mean every talk again, no planning. Yeah. Yeah. That's what God. That's what God us. We just they the numbers that they had told us to project were very different from what we had received. So we're just projecting. I mean, not 10,000 orders.

It was nuts. It was nuts. I thought maybe 1,000, 2,000, again, like a 10th of the volume. No, it was insane. And by the time that we had, we started shipping the first wave of orders, then some of those people would reorder. So it just kept snowballing. And we didn't

ship. I mean, it was, it was a, it was a dark time. We pulled, I am not, I really am not kidding. We pulled 10 all nighters in the month of December. My dad, who runs a business, came out for two weeks to help. Really? Yeah, I mean, like my fiance's mom came out for two weeks. She was like cooking and helping. It was nuts. At one point, I'll never forget it. It's like February. I'm like ready to break down.

I was honestly, it was like exhaustion. Yeah. And I email Mark. I'm like, Mark, like we don't know, like should we shut down the web, like what do we do? We are so under water and it feels like there's no end insight, like I'm like gased right now and he's like, just stop what you're doing,

go home and take a shower, go to bed, don't ship anything for the rest of the day and get some sleep. And tomorrow you're gonna go back and you're going to keep going. And don't shut the website off. Really? And I'm like, okay, I guess I'll do that. Like I needed someone to tell me what to do in that moment because I was like fraught

with like just, I was overwhelmed. But also how could you not be? And also isn't it like a very pivotal moment for companies because you don't have any product and you know you have one chance to make a good impression right first chance for the first impression. And honestly I think we probably didn't make a good impression to a lot of people and like I it I try not to look back on that too much because I, you know, quite frankly, I'm like, God, I feel so bad. Like, we always want to have the best interactions, but you learn these lessons in one way. And you can't look back. You got to keep moving forward. So I will never, I'm like a maniac about product now. Now you're, for sure,

you learn from that. I mean, I'm a maniac. Like if it's all about the product, everything. Like you will solve everything with amazing product. Profit the people you hire, your sales, distribution, it's about the product. And it is. Like that's all it is. It's what keeps the lights on. It's like what facilitates commerce. the product. And it just, it is. Like, that's, that's all it is.

It's what keeps the lights on. It's what, it's like what, like facilitates commerce. That's a great answer. That's a all, all amazing founder CEOs say when they have a product that, you know, basically like a consumption product or like a sort of that you're serving people. Like at the end of the day, that's all people care about. Yeah. Yeah. Tastes good. And quality. Yeah. And also for food. Like at the end of the day, that's all people care about. Yeah, yeah. Taste good. Tempted quality.

Yeah. And also for food, especially at the end of the day, it could be as healthy as you want it to be, but if it tastes like shit, no one's gonna buy it anyway. No, I don't care what anyone says. Like I see a lot of, I get introduced to a lot of early stage CPG now

because they're like, oh, you made it. I'm like, I have not made it. Oh my God. I feel like, I have not made it. Oh my God. I feel like this is making me. I do not make it. It makes me. Right, right. But I had an idea, GuyRaz, how I built this,

it really should be how this built me. Because it truly changes you as a human. But anyway, it's a good spin off. Yeah, it's the product. And obviously without a shadow of a doubt, the people, I mean, you have to surround yourself with amazing. It's hard to find really good people. You're lucky in that way that you were able to, especially now, post-COVID, it's even more complicated, but that's a whole other story. Yeah. But, how did you find the recipe? How did you get to the recipes?

Because here you're making it, you told me you went from the mixing with the yogurt that you did at the Goldman. How did you kind of figure out the recipes for all these skews? Were you doing it? Did you hire a person to come on? No, it was a lot of experimentation. And we drew inspiration from like traditional yogurt flavors, traditional oatmeal flavors,

you know, dessert flavors, websites, et cetera. I mean, we, it was just, it's all about experimentation, like iterating, iterating, iterating, and reading. Constantly, and then getting ideas, even from consumers, like listen to people, like, oh, I like your blueberry, and I put banana in it, it's like, oh, okay. What should we play with that?

And we play with that. And like, what about that? Or like, oh, I put, you know, wallnuts on top of this one, and like, oh, what if we experimented with that? Yeah, yeah. Do you, so then, okay, so all that happens. When was your next raise your next? Yeah. So great question. We so we closed that deal in 2017, and then we didn't raise again until 2019 from the founders of RX bar. So Peter Ray Hall,

of RX bar. So Peter Ray Hall, Jared Smith, and then their right hand who essentially built the sales and marketing team, Sam McBride. And, you know, I had been introduced to Peter in 2018 at one point. And we got on the phone and I was kind of like, yeah, okay. I guess he figured it out, like I don't know. It was like kind of like a blah conversation, like nice and awesome, but whatever. And then my younger sister had moved to Chicago and so I went to visit her and again, I started to, I got into that same sort of mode of feeling like we're so constricted from an operating perspective.

Like, what do I do? Like, I don't want to raise. I don't want to, like, I don't want another partner. I want to just keep focusing heads down, but like, I think we need capital, all the stuff. So I reached out to Peter again. I was like, hey, I'm in Chicago. Do you have like a few minutes? Just want to chat with you about like, what I'm thinking. Did you go through the same thing? And like in minutes, he's like, yeah, come to my office. Met him and hit it off. I mean, we, I think Peter, Sam and I spoke for three hours. Just chatting.

And they were like, well, why don't we invest? And I was like, uh, okay, I guess. And that was it. And never look back. And now there are like some of my Biggest fans biggest mentors. I I adore Peter and Sam and Jared. They're amazing Amazing. So how much did they give you a million dollars and that was in 2019 2019? Yeah, and they also have the experience. They were really good strategic partners as well.

They're just money. In the business. In the business. And they get great exit. Like, great exit. An amazing story. But even more importantly, they are really good people. Yeah.

They're good humans. And I love that Peter is a true entrepreneur. I mean, truly just totally gets it. Like when you take money from people who haven't operated, there's like a structural cognitive dissonance. There's just something blocking the neurons, like you can't relate.

And he can totally relate, like totally. And it's comforting because everyone says it's like a lonely journey. It really is. And when you can share sort of the, you know, what you're grappling with and have someone truly, like, connect and be interested and engage, it's super rewarding. That's amazing. Yeah. So very lucky. You're very, so I'll say you've kind of been, not but you create your own luck, right? Like these are the way. I don't believe in just luck for luck.

I mean, you created your own luck in every set of the way. How much of the company did you have to give up for the million? That was 10%. I think we raised at a $10 million valuation. So again, another 10%. And then by that point though, were you already in other retailers besides Whole Foods?

Or? Yeah, we had started to branch out from Whole Foods. We were in a few other retailers, but we were still, I mean, really quite small. I think by then we had like truly proven out the concept that like, okay, this could be a brand. Like, it's not, you know, we know how to make good decisions. There's clearly some sort of product market fit. And I think they were really great coming in at that point because what we then needed to learn

was something that they could could truly support us with which is like people and hiring and like You know commercialization strategy and what have you like sales and marketing plans They had just gone through it. Yeah a few years ahead of us Did they start their own fund or they just did a one-off with you? It's so funny. Yeah, they started to, it wasn't a formal fund. They started to invest with one another.

And they were pretty cute with it. They formed an LLC to invest into motion. It was called the Breakfast Club. Oh, it's so cute. Yeah, it was really cute. It was so funny. When I saw that come through on the term sheet, it was like these guys are funny.

That's awesome. Yeah. And so since then, then, did you do another round? Or? We did with our existing investors, and then a few other folks who have been mentors of mine from our finance days. And then Mark is, yeah, so our existing investors and then a guy named Doug who has had a tremendous career. He's in the private equity space for the energy sector. He is, I think,

the energy sector, he is, I think, one of the brightest people I've ever met. I mean, what a machine, what a machine. So bright, he had gotten his start at Goldman. He became a partner there, then left, had this insane private equity career. Truly amazing. He's a really, and he's awesome, like so fun to be around. Like, again, you're like, oh, they might be stiff. He is like the most progressive, like so fun to be around. Like again, you're like, oh, they might be stiff. Like, and that, yeah, yeah. He is like the most progressive, like so fun, always down to have a good time.

And like truly just like normal, normal. So that's normal, that's the word, you know what I'm saying? That's the word, you don't want to be rude. But, yeah. You know what I mean? What's normal, but I, But no, but you know, it just like who can connect to people. I mean, he can honestly, that's his superpower is connecting.

He is so good with people, which company, which fund is here, which firm is it? It's called Energy Capital Partners, ECP. And it's huge billions and billions. Yeah, yeah, out of New York, actually, he's been time New York Miami and billions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, out of New York. Actually, he spends time in New York Miami and California. So he actually used to go to the Rancho Santa Fe farmer's market. Oh, really? Yeah.

And if I remember your product there, or... I, you know, he didn't. But I was like, Doug, how did you not run into us? But yeah, he used to go to that farmer's market. So Doug and then another amazing, super bright human, Quincy, who actually Sarah introduced me to. So one of her dear friends who again had a phenomenal, successful career in finance.

And then one of the partners at Goldman, who I looked up to all the time, he absolutely loved him. His name is Rob Camacho. He's now at Blackstone, doing like structured debt, yeah, managing director there. He became like a super young partner. Actually Sarah worked with Rob. Really? From the same desk. You know what? I'm sure there's something to it that I think people are comfortable and you tell me if you think this

Yeah, because of your background that like you know, I built and in my opinion This is my opinion. I feel that people invest in people more than the product, right? Totally and that's and I feel that You're so solid as a someone who'd be running a company and founder with your background and just even speaking with you now, that it helps so much when people, like it's easier to raise money with someone like you than someone who doesn't have that pedigree behind them, right? Yeah, I completely agree.

I think like one of the biggest blessings was that I got my start in finance. It's like in you business, it's like the product, the people, and the funding. And like that funding portion, it can't be overlooked. You can really screw up a company with the wrong capitalization or funding strategy. And so I was very comfortable with the wrong capitalization or funding strategy. And so I was very comfortable with the financing of the business. I think that's been a big advantage. I don't waste a lot of time figuring that out

because I understand how it works. And I think, yeah, I think they, like all the investors around the table right now, they've all, I think for sure invested in me and my vision. And the product does matter. Like it, it, you know, even these smart, smart guys around the table, like they want to, they want to see it succeed. And they know that a large portion of it is how you execute. But like, they were all super excited by the fact that this product wasn't like a MeToo product. It was really like new and novel. Like, it hasn't been done before.

But now there's a lot of MeToo's, right? Yeah, there are. I feel like there are, but then I can't think of any at the time. I know a lot of people say that. They're like, there's a bunch of products coming out. I'm like there are, but then I can't think of any at the time. I know a lot of people say that. There's a bunch of products coming out. I'm like, yeah. But then, not that many. Yeah, I think about it. Yeah, I mean, there are, like, in competition, it's here, it'll come.

But again, like, business is not a zero-sum game. So I rarely think about it. Because I'm like, if just because another company pops up, doesn't mean that we can't exist. Like, there are Coca-Cola Pepsi. Right, you won't give it a abundance mindset, not like the scarcity mindset. Well, and that's funny, you say that,

because I do think I grew up with a scarcity mindset, and I've really had to work on that. You have to have an abundance mindset. But maybe you grew up with it, you started with that, but then you saw abundance. So maybe over your life, it evolved into this naturally. I would imagine. What is your like revenue now, your annual revenue? And a COVID, a COVID kill you or make you or COVID did not kill us. No, it certainly slowed, I think slowed us down a little bit because retailers were not authorizing new products

as readily or as quickly. But we sort of just kept going, charged through. I think we were at the perfect place in size of business to really weather the storm. We weren't too big, I would say over $50 million, it's really tough to continue to grow if retailers aren't authorizing, because a lot of your distributions coming from new doors are coming out.

So, we weren't over 50. We're approaching. And then we weren't too small. Yeah, we weren't too small such that, you know, if you're a million dollars and like no one's off the right, like you just, you can't get traction in COVID because it's just so noisy and everyone, no one cares about your new product, everyone cares about surviving. And also, I feel like so many brands just went bankrupt because they couldn't, like brand two, they couldn't because they couldn't like brand to it. They could it they couldn't sustain themselves because they were in this growth period.

I know. And the tide sort of goes out. Yeah. Yeah. With your pants down. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. And the fact that how much of your sales are online versus retail?

We actually don't have a big director consumer business. We so the two things. One, the infrastructure in America is not built out well enough for refrigerated products. That's going to say because of the refrigerator problem. And like, a lot of people are doing it, but it's not economical. Like, it does, the unit economics do not make sense. So when I think about asset allocation, like time, energy, financial capital, human capital,

and you know, D to C, yeah, might be some, there's some size of prize, but the profitability of it is next to nothing. I'm not gonna put a ton of assets behind that. Instead, I'm gonna go to what's tried and true, which is the retail business. So we've been really focused on that. The other idea I have, or like the other thought I have around direct to consumers, that

it's amazing to me that no one's called out just how impactful it is from an environmental perspective. Like that has a huge impact on carbon footprint, all the corrugate, all the ice packs, all the insulation, the FedEx trucks to drive it, the planes, whatever. It is so much more, it's way healthier for the environment to go to stores and buy goods, a lot of goods at once. I agree with you.

I surprise that nobody ever talks about that. No one talks about it. They don't talk about that at all. But they're like, death to plastic. And I totally get it. Plastics an issue too. But what about us delivering a paper clip on a Sunday? Think about it.

I mean, I kept so many boxes, just product. People want me to try whatever. With the amount of packaging that goes not just the actual box, but in the box, it's absurd. I'm throwing out so much stuff every single day. Nobody ever does talk about that. There is insane. There is no literature on it. It's on. I'm like, how is the world not woken up to that? That's what I don't understand. But you know,

the problem is people cannot get into retail. It's very difficult because you need to have so competitive. So competitive. You need to have a distribution channel. You need to have. You got to like, don't you and and you tell me that the demos in itself are extremely expensive. So it's expensive. So it's expensive. You need a budget for these things. And most companies now are so struggling,

they have no other choice, but to do it vis-a-vis Amazon and, or their website. Yeah, it's like, there's a lot of short-term gain to be had digitally, but again, it's short-term. One of the most amazing lessons that Goldman ever taught us was the idea of being long-term greedy. And not greedy, like, I say it out, like, exactly, long-term greedy,

and all the time. Yeah, that's it. I mean, at least where I heard it the first time was Goldman, like, be long-term greedy. Like, do the right thing by our customers for the long-term, foster that long-term relationship, get the revenue that's sustainable, that coupon every year. Don't do things in the moment just because you might be able to get a big pop. I think a lot of, it's just easier.

It's, yeah, anyone can throw anything up on the internet. It's hard to get into retail, but it's just easier. Like it's, yeah, anyone can throw anything up on the internet. It's hard to get into retail, but is it extremely hard? It's sticky and it's certainly like, it has bigger legs. Can you tell me a couple, for people starting out or for entrepreneurs or people who want to be entrepreneurs, what would you tell me, what would be the biggest lesson that you've learned and one of the best qualities that you need to have to become an entrepreneur?

Oh, biggest lesson learned. All right, qualities? Okay. I think I get to answer that one and I'll have to think about the other. Humility. Like, no ego, I think in order to learn, you need to be humble. You need to know that you don't know everything and that you're coming to know things throughout the journey.

So I think humility, I think discipline, I mean, it's like consistency, Melissa would talk a lot about consistency and like consistently showing up every day, that's discipline. It's like it's focus and I think it's so underrated. Like think about, like, it's like a similar concept to compound interest. Like, just some gains every year

that compound on itself, that focus does the same. And before you know it, like your trajectory is just off to the moon. So that focus day after day, year after year, super important, focusing for an uncommonly long period of time. I think that's really hard as humans we crave novelty, but we have to stick on the path. And then, yeah, discipline, humility, perseverance, vision, I think confidence in self, like you just, you, you, you have to, you have to have confidence. And then probably final thing, passion, like you have to be

passionate about what you're doing, because it is so hard, it will bog you down. So if you don't, if you're not connected to what you're doing emotionally, metaphysically, I think it's really easy to just, you know, go hop to the next thing. It's that passion that will, to like, do and create, that I think carries you really far. And then I think surrounding yourself with amazing people. It's so important. You know, everyone talks about like you're the average of the five people you spend your most time with. And it's so true. Like you're you as a human, you learn from others. And those others need to know more than what you do. than what you know today. And so I constantly try to surround myself with people who can add to my

perspective, cultivate it, make make me better. The biggest lesson I learned in business or so far is like, it's just hard. You have to get really comfortable with making hard decisions. And when you don't, like you avoid pain in the moment, but it comes back to haunt you in such big ways. And it's really tough. Like, I recommend this book by Ben Horowitz. He is one of the founders of Andreson Horowitz, big Silicon Valley, venture fund, super successful,

and so bright. But he wrote a book called The Hard Thing About Hard Things. And that's exactly it. Hard shit is just hard. And you gotta grapple with it. And it's uncomfortable, but you gotta do it. Hard decisions, gotta make them hard conversations. And I was pretty inept at interacting with humans.

I have pretty low interpersonal sensitivity. Like my emotional intelligence was not super high, EQ. And I've had to really, that's been an area of learning for me and it's been difficult, but so necessary. You have to motivate people, work with people. It's funny that you're saying that you have a low EQ because I don't know if you're staying because- I don't know any more, but like I did.

It's because you're being very humble because you don't see, like you're staying, you're like awkward. I'm honest. Yeah, but you don't have to me. You can't picture it, but like I wish. I really can't. I wish I had like footage. I don't have to me. You can't picture it, but like I wish I had like footage. I don't know.

Like I wish I could. Is she much better now? I am. You are. I don't know if you're ever as bad as a thing. Yeah, I don't think so either. I mean, just because you're... I'll send some photos from high school.

Will you? Yeah, because I'm like this, do we be 90 pounds soaking wet braces? I mean, I came in and they were like, are you in sixth grade? Like, and it was, I mean, it was remarkable. My best friend as a freshman was like this beautiful woman and womanly and athletic. And there I am, like my backpack weighs more than me.

Like, I was that person. I really was. I was. You are so funny to me. Really, you are. I feel okay. Wait, I have one other question I wanted to ask you that was. Yes, sorry. No, no, I actually love that you're saying this. It's actually so endearing and that's why I want to be your friend now. If you'll take me, you need a friend. No, I do. I love that. You seem so, you actually seem genuinely like down to earth and authentic.

And I think those are very truly rare qualities. People can act that. They are that way, but they're not really, you know what I mean? And I see a lot of people like that. But you just seem like you really are what you see is what you get, and I think that's part of, but I think that's part of the success here, because if you are that way, chances are your product

is gonna be similar in authentic. It is, and like, it's like a physical form of a thing. Represent, yeah. Because by the way, the ingredients, they are clean. Like, there's nothing in there. There's no added sugar. There's really like- No added sugar, no artificial flavors or colors,

no preservatives, and we're gonna continue to make it as clean as possible, but I'm a big believer in that. Like, there's so many products that position themselves as better for you, and maybe to some degree they are, but like, there's fillers in there, there's stuff that like you, you can't buy in the market. I mean like ours are made with like fruits and oats and almonds and water,

like it's basic stuff that we just happen to put together for you. Why are they so small those little six ounces? Like why can't you make a bigger one? Because I'm starving. I get it. I eat two. Like I mean I was going to say I just need one. I need two. No, I need to. But okay, I'm so glad you bring this up because one of the best ways to tell whether or not a product is

truly good for you have two in a row. And if you don't like, if you're stomach doesn't start gurgling or you got gas or what have you, it's truly a good product. And like, you can eat too much and be totally fine. But you can't eat too quest bar. Like, no, no, no. That's gonna hurt you. No, no, no.

You're gonna regret that. I know. Well, the problem is, I think there's like a, that's where I think there's like a place in the market. Because I feel there's no, I have not yet found a protein bar that is really clean and satiating. And you feel like you feel like good about it. I cannot find them. They stay clean and then you look at all the ingredients or the ratios are not.

It's like really. And then brown rice syrup. I'm like, what is that? Or tapioca. There's a lot of tapioca. Yeah, there's like a lot of binders in bars. Cause like that's what keeps the texture together. It's tough.

We need some innovators. And then can you make a protein bar? Why not? Can make anything. Yeah, I mean, I mean, count, I mean, count, like as if it's my company. We should. We should. Why don't we, we should experiment. Yeah, I mean, I mean, count, I mean, count, read, like, as if it's my company. We should, we should experiment.

I'm telling you, I really believe there is a market for this because people come to me, I get 10, 10 DMs, probably, a week being like, hey, I'm wondering, you know, I'm really looking for a protein bar and I've never been able to give anybody like a solid recommendation. I will say plug to Peter. I think he did a phenomenal job. You know, they're selling some cons, but a lot of pros to that product and I think they're very good

and you can eat too and feel totally fine. I will give him that. The problem I have with the taste. Yeah. At the end of the day, like what we see. It's date. Yeah. It's date.

Well, I don't know. Yeah, I guess I just feel like it is super clean. Maybe that's why. I don't think so. But it comes down to the taste. And the taste to me is just not, I don't feel after I finish it that like, oh, that's satiating. It's that satiation that's a problem.

Yep. feel after I finish it that like, oh, that's satiating. It's that satiation that's a problem. Yep, which is I think mush so delivers on that. Like you feel. You feel satiated. You feel satiated. But you know what I think will be a great, maybe you can do, maybe we can, if you make like a mush with that yogurt in a bar form. Oh yeah.

Can you do that? Oh yeah. Add like protein to that and create a bar form. Let's do it. I'm serious. I think it'll be a bar form. Oh, yeah. Can you do that? Oh, yeah. Add like protein to that and create a bar form. Let's do it. I'm serious. I think it'll be a great product. I think it would be too. Because your product is very tasty.

Like it's super, it's like it's super tasty. Totally. And it has to taste good. It has to taste good. It has to taste good. It has to deliver. Yeah. You know, it's an amazing, Another one that's amazing that I've

found like their Canadian. Have you tried the, um, and other years, I, yeah, um, I have not. I'm going to give you some. Do you love them? I really like them. I think they're delicious. I've given away. I'm not even exaggerating. Probably a thousand bars. No. I'm not away, I'm not even exaggerating, probably a thousand bars. No. I'm not joking. I'm not joking. That's how many bars. I mean, I'm like a huge fan because if you're going to eat chocolate, is it super healthy? It's chocolate. Okay. I think it's chocolate. Yeah. But they do a fantastic job. You like the taste. In terms of, I like the taste, the peanut butter ones are delicious. And they do a fantastic job with their marketing, with their branding, with their

creative and media company around themselves. Yeah. And they have a huge evaluation. I mean, it's like very high. Yeah. Yeah. So, but that's a whole other story. But as a product that I've seen, like I've been following them for a long time.

And I think they're doing a really good job. And you feel okay eating it, right, because it's the protein content, they add fiber to it, blah, blah, blah. But that's still not a protein bar. No, it's chocolate. Not in the, yeah, it's chocolate. Like, I'm not eating that for breakfast. And I think they've positioned it in that way. Like they're not trying to be something that they're, yeah,'s chocolate. Not in the, yeah, it's chocolate. Like I'm not even that for breakfast. And I think they've positioned it in that way.

Like they're not trying to be something that they're functional chocolate. Yeah, I mean, it's delicious. Yeah. But my point is, there's very few brands and I get tons of stuff that I've ever been like that excited about. Yeah.

That you can really integrate, right? Yeah, yeah. Like something, I always think about product development. Like, you have to, I think the products worthy of developing are things that you can eat every day. Like you want to do day-to-day life. Every day, like it's not a tree, it's not a once-a-time thing, it's an all-the-time thing.

Totally. That's the stuff that really excites me. I think that's, there's a lot of power in that. I agree. So what's the next iteration for a mush? Maybe a bar. Yeah, I'm serious. I'm actually, I'm going to follow up with you about this because I'm serious.

You're going to do it. No, there's definitely some cool concepts in the bar space. I think what's next is continuing to beat the drum with this current line, maybe come out with some amazing flavors. The best flavor hasn't been released yet. I will say. What is it?

Should I? Should I mention it? It's my favorite. What is it? Chocolate peanut butter. It's so good. Oh my God, you have chocolate. First of all, that's my, that's the,

I love chocolate. You love chocolate peanut butter. Yeah, love chocolate. You love chocolate peanut butter. Yeah, I do. I love chocolate peanut butter. Me too. I mean, anyone who's in fitness loves a good chocolate peanut butter anything. That's why I want to give you this mid-distance layer.

Like, you should make chocolate peanut butter sneakers, like brown and whatever. 100%. Like, there, it would, it would kill it. I, and so anyway, this flavor is phenomenal and it's got some great protein. When is it coming out? January because talking double-digit protein content.

Really? Yeah, so I'm excited. That could be a game changer. Yeah, I know. That could be a game changer. Well, here we go. What's so long? My stubbornness, honestly.

I hate saying this, Peter will kill me. He'll also be like, what took so long? Yeah. He's been beating me upside the head with this. You know, what took so long is like I think quite frankly and there's no excuse, it's just the reality of it. We focused on the product, we found product market fit to some degree. And then it was a true concerted effort on building the team to scale the product. And that was the part that took the most time for me to learn. Like I was, I had to like really invest executive coach, like reading books about how to win friends and influence people. I mean, like one of the chapters, like smile. I'm like, okay, I got a smile.

You didn't know that? No, I'm like, oh my gosh. So I, like, truly when I say, like, people on affiliation and tribes, like, I'm like a lone wolf sometimes. And it just didn't come naturally to me. Just was not, is just not in my DNA, but I've been able to, I think like anyone, you can learn how to do anything if you put your mind to it. And I've really had to learn how to cultivate those skills. And it took a lot of time and energy. And so I probably, I don't regret it,

but like there was a shift in focus. And so now that I have a great team around me who can manage people well. And you can just focus on what you're good at. So it goes on product and growth and all the other stuff. So I'm really lucky in that sense. I have the most amazing team. That's amazing.

I'm going to have to wrap this up because it's been forever. But I actually want you to come back on there because I actually have a ton of questions that I haven't even gotten to. I'll come anytime. Any excuse to come see you use the gym, the pool. I'm serious. As long as I can say here for a few days. You can stay here for as long as you want. I wasn't joking. I mean, I'm telling you. I think I really love the story and I I like it's just been so long and people are probably like, we just, you know, caught, like,

it's like two hours or however long it's been, but, and I have someone, of course, waiting, but people buy mush, it's delicious. You can buy it anywhere, I buy it, sprout, you can buy it at Whole Foods, you can buy it anywhere, right? Yes, yes, sprout. Not anywhere, we're working on that.

We wanna make it accessible everywhere, but sprouts, Whole Foods, some Costco, Target. We've got some great distribution, some amazing retail partners, and I highly recommend going and getting some. I do too, the apples in the mints delicious, and then peanut butter, I can't wait to try, but you'll be one of our first recipients.

I hope so. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much one of our first recipients. Absolutely. Well thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Pleasure to be here. We're gonna say goodbye.

Bye. This episode is brought to you by the Yap Media Podcast Network. I'm Holla Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire, YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young & Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. Each week, we dive into a new topic like the art of side hustles, how to level up your influence and persuasion and goal setting.

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