Habits and Hustle - Episode 172: Ken Coleman – America’s Career Coach, Best Selling Author, and host of The Ken Coleman Show

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

Ken Coleman is America’s Career Coach, Best Selling Author, and host of The Ken Coleman Show. Ken is a master at helping people uncover their passions. Challenging the concept of the “dream job”, shifting into his radio profession in his mid-30s, and knowing the right questions to ask to guide other people to find jobs they would love and find fulfilling, Ken is an unstoppable force for finding what you’re good at and doing what you love. Curious about how to make meaningful connections in the job space? Not exactly sure what you want to do with your life, but know you have a purpose? This is the episode for you! Youtube Link to this Video Ken’s Website – https://www.ramseysolutions.com/ken-coleman The Ken Coleman Show – https://www.youtube.com/c/TheKenColemanShow ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Go check it out at trueniagen.com. That's trueniagen, TRU and IAGM. And we have a special offer for new customers to receive 20% off orders of $100 or more using the code Hustle20. Definitely run, don't walk to scoop them up today. to have it's in hustle, pressure. Today on the podcast we have Ken Coleman. Ken is the best-selling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose, and the host of the nationally syndicated radio show,

The Ken Coleman Show. He's also known as America's career coach. I actually tease him about that. He helps color discover what they do best so they can do more work they love and produce the results that matter most to them. Whatever you're looking for, if it's a complete career change

or just some tips and tricks to take you to the next level, can can really help you get unstuck and get on the path to really meaningful work. This is a great episode you guys. If you are somebody who is in that situation, if you are someone who is stuck in your career, want to make a change, want to make a pivot, this is the episode for you. Enjoy. We have Ken Colvin on the podcast today. He is a best-selling author. He's a syndicated radio host. You are a career coach. Yes. Even though I know you don't love the term career coach

You are America's number one career coach. So they say yeah, is that true? Who you know, how do you even measure that? No, I don't know. It's the brilliant publicists come up with these things and you know people have you on and say it So you have to kind of own it. Yeah, and you just my own say yes I am you're roll with it right yeah, and of course you have to kind of own it. Yeah, and you just smile and say, Yes, I am. You're role with it. Right. And of course, you're the author of the new book,

of course, from Paycheck to Purpose, which I was telling you before we even started. I really, really enjoyed reading it. There's a lot of practical and tactical information that people can really use with it. So, well, thank you for coming on. I'm thrilled to be here. Well, you do really good work, and this is going to be fun. Love your well, thank you for coming on. I'm thrilled to be here. Well, you do really good work and this is going to be fun.

Love your audience. I love what you do. We certainly have a lot of synergy and why we get up and attack the day. Absolutely. The way we do it. So, this is, this is a great privilege. Thank you. Well, thank you. Why don't we start with the beginning? So, how did you become known as America's career coach? How did you become that guy? Well, you know, it's funny. You become something by overcoming something else. Isn't that true? No matter what it is, any walk of life. And the real answer to that question is that I was a kid who was always ambitious, very focused on the future.

You know, it just wired that way. I think, you know, it's this beautiful world we live in. We have all different types of people, and yet there's so many similarities. And I know that everybody watching and listening right now, you kind of know that person, maybe they're that person who just always had an eye to the future, maybe more so than your friends

or your siblings. And I was that kid. And I remember at the age of 16 being very clear, thinking I was very clear on what I wanted to do with my life. And I wanted to go into politics for the purpose of serving people. I come from a world where loving on people was very evident in my house, you know, caring for others, giving your life to others and serving. And I was fascinated with politics at the time.

And so I thought, okay, this is it. This is the path. And so I got very serious about that path, chose the college, got into the major, the whole nine yards, left college early, well, left one semester in my sophomore year to work on a congressional race, and it was like the battle, and it was amazing, and I loved it, and I was like, this is it,

and ended up dropping out of college to pursue it full time to work on a US Senate race. By the age of 22, I'm working for the governor of Virginia. And yeah, right, and it's like I'm doing it. And yet I realized in that moment, the difference between campaigns and working in elected office, the pace. It's very different.

So I'm not gonna get in all that, other than to say the bureaucracy sucks. Camp painting for ideals, whether it's a marketing campaign, politics, whatever. There's something exciting about that. So I realize, okay, if I'm going to run for office one day, I don't like this side of things. So I need to get into business and just build some type of a leadership resume so that I'm not in kind

of a lifetime political insider. So that led me to Atlanta working for our leadership guru by the name of John Maxwell. Then I go out on my own, start my own consulting agency thinking that okay now I'm set up to run 33 and I realize, wait what did you do with him? What was your job? I was a vice president for him, and so I was helping develop new content, so bringing in new content providers,

developing new content, strategic relationships. And tell people who he is, people don't know who he is. He's a well-known leadership guru, 21 laws of irrefutable leadership, 21 irrefutable laws of leadership is the classic. My gosh, I bet that's 20 some years old now. And in that leadership space, corporate leadership,

he's a big deal. And so I had the opportunity to work for him. And so when I go out on my own, this is a very long story, I'm racing through it, I realize that I don't wanna run for office, that I'm really kind of over it. I'm disenchanted with both sides of the aisle. Like, I don't think it's really the best place for me

to maximize my potential to serve and love others, but the problem is I don't know what it is. So that's a very disheartening, disillusioning time in your life. And I think a lot of people go through that, right? A lot of people. I think that becomes the big question. People don't know how to maximize their potential.

Yeah. They don't know what they want to do. They may have a general idea, but they don't know how to really kind of pursue it. That's it. Right? So then how did you figure out yours? And then what do you tell people when,

because that's I'm sure a really popular question. Yeah, it's really the heart of my methodology. So I'm in this place. I've got three little kids on the age of three. I'm on my own and I'm miserable. I don't even want to work for myself. I don't even want to, you know, that's bad. And so I began to connect with some life coaches that I had relationships with and they gave me some basic exercises and constructs. But the short answer is I spent about a six month period of really getting to know myself, you know, really diving in, looking at my backstory.

You know, I've got 33 years of history to look into and go, okay, what is it that is unique to me and unique to my story? In other words, experience, to get some patterns, to kind of go, okay, are there some threads or patterns? And long story short, got to a place where I realized that just because I'd been disenchanted with politics, didn't mean that I wasn't headed

the right direction this whole time. See, here in lies one of the big myths that I'd love to bust for people that there's only one dream job. See, that's like total myth. There are numerous, maybe innumerable amount of dream jobs. That's an interesting thing to say. Yeah, if you classify it with this,

if you're using what you do best, that's your talent. To do work you love, that's passion. To produce results that matter to you, that's mission. So you're on purpose if you use what you do best to do work you love to produce results that matter to you, that's mission. So you're on purpose, if you use it, you do best to do work you love to produce results that matter. So therein lies the freedom to be able to say and to be able to find multiple dream jobs.

See, the dream job, how do you define the dream job? And it's a hard thing for people to answer. I say, well, you're spending 75% or more of your day using what you do best to do work you love to produce results that matter. See, talent is not enough for fulfillment. It's just not. Right.

I think of some of the greats like Andre Aguise, Aguise, you know, you've read his book, Open. It's unbelievable, this guy's one of the greatest tennis players of all time, but he was very talented and everybody hated it. Right, it's not he hated it. Right. It's not crazy. It's nuts.

But Wall Street's littered with minute women that are wildly talented, but are committing suicide. Totally. So that speaks to talent is not enough. That there's a three-part formula. Everybody has it. Everybody has those essentials, talent, hard skills, soft skills. Passion, your heart races. you long to do this work.

And then when you get in the middle of this work, time stops. Right, right. Famed psychologist, Mihai Chiq, sent Mihai as a TED Talk on this called flow. And he considers this the same as ecstasy. Ecstasy for people is sexual in nature or romantic in nature, but it's not. It's actually a state, a mental state that is brought on and so he called it flow. And so I would submit to you that when you use what you do best to do work, you love to produce results that matter even in the hard days, the long days.

The days of tremendous failure and rejection, you don't burn out. You can't burn out. You can't burn out. Well, then I agree. I like that you say that. I like that you say there's more than one dream job. It's like, absolutely. Just how, you know, I think there's more than one soulmate for people. I agree.

You know, I don't think there's a choice. Love is a choice. 100% and I don't think I think that depending also where you are in your life, what you choose to focus on and there's a lot of different things. But okay, so let's say that. So I agree, and I also agree about this whole talent thing. However, what if you, what's the other, the problem is, or I would say the issue would be, okay, do you have talent?

How do you match a purpose with a talent? What if your purpose is not the same as your talent? You know what I mean? Well, it's not. And there is, it's not. And there is, it's not. And there's also an interception. I think you've been said this in your book, the intersection between, you know, that you don't really want to be doing something and what to do, what's that thing that you say?

I think you said, like, not knowing what to do and not being happy. Yeah. Well, yeah. So the reality is that we all have purpose in two major areas, relationship, purpose, right, and professional purpose. So when you begin to go, wait a second, I am uniquely made. All right, so even the atheist, forget.

Let's just for a moment, go, okay, do we all think we have talent? The answer is yes. Everybody has some type of talent. You just do. Now you shape that talent through practice and education into a sharpened skill. All right, so talent is just, think of talent as a premium tool, right?

I'm not a very handy person. I'm a disaster, honestly. But I love yard work. And all my yard work, it's very therapeutic for me, but I use power tools. Power blower. I don't want to use a rake. I want to use a blower, right? You know, I don't want to use a rake, I want to use a blower, right? You know, I don't want to do these things, I want the, you know, that's really fun, right?

So you think of talent as it allows me to be efficient and excellent. I'm still doing the same work, but instead of this, you know, that's efficiency and excellence. So we got to look at it talent as talent is just a tool and So there and goes the formula. Okay now talent allows me to do certain type of work Is their work that I love the answer is unequivocally? Yes But then the last piece is that mission piece but see talent plus passion plus mission when they're in alignment That is purpose because now you go because purpose answers the question, why? Right.

We sometimes make purposes big, scary, hairy thing. I think that's what happened. And that's why I've broken it down into talent, plus passion, plus mission. Guess what? You're on purpose. So for instance, if I wasn't doing what I'm doing now, I'd probably be a high school or college basketball coach. Is it on purpose?

Yes. Is it really different than writing books and being on radio and television and speaking in front of large groups, interviewing well-known people? Is it very different? Yes. But is it in alignment? The answer is, would it allow me to use what I do best, communicating, discerning, encouraging? Yes, check. Does it allow me to do work I love? Yes, teaching, coaching, instructing, motivating, check. Does it produce results that matter to me? Yeah, I would be pointing to the lives of young men, not just teaching the game of basketball, but pointing to the lives and teaching

them personal growth that they're disciplined, teaching them how to deal with failure and rejection, heartbreak, all through the game of basketball. Check. So that's an example of, you know, if I don't wanna be a teacher, how do I do? I get those calls every day, you've heard them on the show. Teachers are calling me crazy right now. They're burned out and they're going, what do I do?

Well, they haven't lost their love of instruction. That's passion, that's a type of work. So they could get into corporate training. It's instruction. It's also called transferable skills too, right? 100% you can take those things and apply it to something else. So that's really what it is. So what is so what's the? Okay, my first question, I guess to you is this is that the first, is that it not my first question to you? Is that the first

question you normally get on your show? Like, I don't know what to do? Yeah, probably am all in my job. Most popular one is, I'm not happy, but I'm not sure what is the right thing for me to do. And that's why I developed the talent plus passion, plus mission. We created an assessment called the Get Clear Career Assessment, it's not personality-based.

And I'm a big fan of Gallup. They came out with string finders many years ago, probably the most well known, but it's only focusing on what I believe is one fan of Gallup. They came out with string finders many years ago, probably the most well known, but it's only focusing on what I believe is one third of the equation. Talent is not enough for fulfillment. It's just not, because we as human beings long to make a difference

in the lives of others. And that's the mission piece. And then we as human beings like to do things we're good at. I mean, how many people watching and listening right now enjoy doing things they suck at? Well, 100% like, I talk with the time. That's why even at the gym, I'm going to use an analogy simple. I train the parts that I like to train, and if I'm not found not good at it, then I just don't bother with it. So you get dominant on one thing and you get weaker and weaker on the other thing.

That's it, but you ignore the weaknesses. But I use them because I don't want to focus on it. Fantastic philosophy. And I think most people would do't want to focus on it. Fantastic philosophy. And I think most people would do the same thing. So are you saying to people that if you have a weakness, you should work on that weakness? No, I think you should be aware of it. Okay.

And then mitigate for it. Okay, okay. It's too steps because here's what's interesting. You just nailed it. The human condition longs to do things that we're good at. But our Western hemisphere education philosophy teaches us the opposite. So our children end us and I'm not anti-education. So don't freak out.

You gotta listen to what I'm saying here. What I'm saying is, is our education system in the West is based on improving upon weaknesses. And yet, if you talk to any successful woman or man, they largely have never done that. They went, why would I do that? Right. You lean in on your strengths. Yes. So we need to be aware of our weaknesses. That's huge. Of awareness is the superpower to success. But then we mitigate for it. So I'll pick on myself. I'm a very creative, fast thinker. I love new. I'm a world class starter, but I am an awful finisher, which is consistent with a lot of personality types like mine. Well, I don't need to bust my tail

to get really great at finishing because it's a losing proposition. Let's just have a fun silly example. Rate talents one to 10. Okay, when it comes to organizational, administrative and detail, minutia, I may two. You're at least you're two. I'm like a negative.

Right, maybe I am. But if you and I get really serious, we start taking all these courses on administrative skills and we bust it. The most we're gonna improve is two to three slots. So all of a sudden, let's just say I was being... Is that a sat really? No, but I'm okay.

This is common sense. Okay. But think about it. Like how much are you really gonna improve in an area of weeks? You're gonna be converted. I agree with this. But people need to hear this. I'm not saying you have a talent, area of women. You're pretty sensitive to the converted. I agree with this. But people need to hear this.

I'm not saying you have a talent, you have lack of experience, and you can make that talent. I'm talking, you have no talent, no talent. So then I become average or below average? Who pays for average? Like, do you ever go to your house when you go, hey, let's go on an average vacation.

And while we're there, let's go to an average restaurant. And let's do average things. This is nonsense. And I'm being silly for a moment to grab people's attention because you would be surprised at how many people that I deal with, they don't realize this and they won't let go of the weaknesses and be free to go. I'm going to get really aware of where I'm strong, not just in talent, but my heart. Right. What work do I long to do? I get excited to think about for me, for you, like I get excited about my show every day. I could be really sick, feel terrible, and I get in that studio, and the lights come on, and that intro music comes on. I'm alive.

Right, right, right. You know, I can have a really rough week. My personal life could be in shambles. I'm alive. Right, right, right. You know, I can have a really rough week. My personal life could be in shambles. I'm raising teens. But you get me up in front of a stage and there are people I know that I got a chance to influence them. The juice arrives. Right, right, right.

I can't manufacture that. By the way, that's not motivation. You can't fake motivation. I agree. What is it then if it's not motivation? Passion, passion, emission. Those last two pieces. So when I love the work and I see that the work is creating or producing a result that aligns with my values.

Right. I have the juice. I'm motivated. It's called intrinsic motivation. For all the parents out there, extrinsic motivation is, if you don't clean your room, you don't get to go out with your friends tonight. So the kid cleans the room. They didn't clean the room because they wanted to. They cleaned the room because of an external motivator. Okay. Intrinsic motivation is you getting in that room over there, I just saw folks.

She's got this like, it's like LA fitness over there in this room. So you get up and work out because you want to. That's intrinsic motivation because there's a result, physically, mentally, emotionally, that you get out of exercise. Absolutely. Vitamin water just dropped a new zero sugar flavor called with love.

Get the taste of raspberry and dark chocolate for the all warm, all fuzzy, all self-care, zero self-doubt you. Grab a with love today. Vitamin water, zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. Now this is, I keep on going back to this. How does somebody find that intrinsic motivation? How does somebody find that intrinsic motivation? That's, that has longevity to it. Yeah. Because I'm a big believer that I don't believe in motivation. I think it's a nonsense of the word.

Yeah, totally. Because you can go to like even a Tony Robbins seminar and be, woo-hoo, motivated for like a week later. And then you get back to real life. And then you get back to reality. And it's a huge dip. Yes. It's, you have to find that passion.

Yeah. What, how do you tell people? Yeah, there's three huge dip. Yes. It's you have to find that passion. Yeah What how do you tell people? Yeah, there's three questions that fall into now that everybody's understood the construct right so passion and mission is where we get the clues Right, so you ask these three questions who are the people I most want to help and I want you to visualize the people I mean get quiet Visualize who are the people I most want to help? quiet, visualize who are the people I most want to help. Interestingly enough, all those confused callers on the Ken Coleman show, I always set them up. I always go, I think you do know. Oh no, I really don't know.

I need your help. I go, okay, give me an idea. Give me an idea that you've had recently. And they'll always say, I just want to help people. And I just laugh and say, well, welcome to human race. So I get into who are the people you want to help people and I just laugh and say, well, welcome to the human race. So I get into who are the people you want to help. Now we begin to turn their brain off at a migdala that's kind of freaking out, fight or flight and they're in a panic mode trying to figure out what they're with it and we engage the

heart. So I want to turn the brain off and get into the heart. And the heart answers the question, these three questions, who are the people I most want to help visualize them? Second question goes deeper. What is the problem they have or the desire they have? Problem or desire, it's one of the two. There are no other options. Third question, what are the solutions or maybe it's a singular solution to that problem or desire that you want to provide? So I'll repeat it again because now we begin to get this is where the ideas come from People I want to help problem or desire they have

Solution that you want to provide I remember getting a phone call from a lady on the show about a year ago. I write about it in the book and She was very very successful in sales, I believe and she's killing it But she's just like I have no fulfillment Ken, but I definitely have no ideas help me So we started walking through this whole thing, she couldn't get it, I finally said, people you want to help, but she went, well, I want to help women who are overweight and physically unhealthy.

And I said, why? And she immediately, I could hear her voice change. She went, well, I recently lost 80 pounds, and it changed my life. Like every facet of my life changed. And I said, so you want to help other women make that change or avoid what you went through. She said, yes, that's it. You just nailed. I said, I didn't nail it. You're the one that filled in the blank. I walked her through people, she wants to help. These were women.

But why? Because she's a woman, she walked through tremendous transformation and a lot of pain in that transformation. And so out of pain comes tremendous passion many times. It's a tremendous clue to maybe the kind of work we want to do. So when we began to look at that,

so what did she do? So we walked her through it. I said, okay, so what are the solutions? She goes nutrition and exercise. I said, great. Does your heart lean more towards nutrition? Or exercise or both? She was like, well, kind of both,

but I think it's more the exercise piece and nutrition's kind of the, and I was like, great. So what are three or four jobs? And she just, and so now she's like, being walking around with tremendous clarity. Right, right. Now watch the transformation that happens. When a person gets clear, Jennifer, they get confident.

And when a person is confident, they will have the courage in the moments of life to step out or stay on the path. So the reason I teach that talent passion mission and ask questions like like who are the people I want to help? Probably want to solve. Problem they have that I want to solve.

Solution, there are business ideas there. There are job and career paths in those three simple questions. And on the other side of that is clarity. And clarity always leads to confidence and confidence leads to courage. But absence of clarity, you will never have the confidence to get off the bleachers of life and get in the game. I love that. So the first step to kind of figuring out what you want to, or for people to figure out

what their best job is, or their best direction in life is, is to get clarity first. That's the superpower. Absolutely. What am I good at? What do I love to do? What results do I want to produce? And that That's the superpower. Absolutely. What am I good at? What do I love to do? What results do I want to produce? And I love it. You say clarity leads to confidence and confidence leads to courage.

That's a really, you should make a bumper sticker. That's what that is. Well, right about in the book, I'll just drive this home for folks. All of us have read or seen a story of a real life person doing something heroic to save the life of another. And I want the audience to just kind of walk through this with you very quickly. I want you to remember back on the story.

At some point, they were interviewed. And the question was, what made you decide to put your own life at risk in this moment? And the answer is always basically, I came up on the scene, let's say it's a fiery car. No one else was around. I felt like I could get them out. I felt like I needed to get them out.

And before I knew it, I was inside a car pulling them out. It just happened. It sounds about right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, definitely. What just happened? Clarity.

They come up on the scene, very clear. Someone's life is at risk and danger if someone doesn't act. Confidence, I think I can do it. And before they know it, courage takes over. So this idea that I can be courageous when I need it as much like this, I can motivate myself. I got to tell you, I'm not trying to pop anybody's bubble. I'm a very positive person, but I'm positive that that's garbage. Okay. It's garbage thinking because you cannot some encourage

absent of clarity and confidence. That's where courage comes from. We go, it goes from, I should act to, I must act. Well then what holds people back? Clarity. Confusion. You know, think about how debilitating confusion is and a lack of clarity. It's like being in a car, you know, I'm from the south. Yeah. So man, we drive through rainstorms and through mountains and fog. And if you've ever gotten into thick fog or thick rain, where you can't see past the hood of your car, what do you do? Stop, man, we're pulling over. We're not moving forward. That's debilitating. It's horrifying. The third of the unknown is the greatest fear we face. The fear, 100%. So I think sometimes there's a step before clarity, right? Because I think once you get to the clarity spot, then you're on your way, right?

You're on a path. But people get stuck before they get to that place, right? They do. So then what is that, why do they get stuck? Is it because they're the fear factor? It's one of them. I write about these three enemies in the book. I call them the enemies of progress. Fear, doubt, and pride. They, I mean those nasty boogers, I'm telling you, and by the way, before I break these down, I want to say this first.

There's this notion that you can remove fear and doubt and pride, And again, that's bad motivational stuff that you're seeing on Instagram, run from it. It's garbage. It's going to lay you out. Fear, doubt and pride are never gone, but you can overcome them. You don't remove them. You overcome them. But I would also tell folks that fear and doubt, specifically are great signs. A lot of people think of fear and doubt as negative

and they can't be and I'll break them down. But fear and doubt only present themselves to people that are moving forward. The people that are sitting on the bleachers of life, elbow deep in the popcorn bag, right? You know what I'm talking about? Watching everybody else play? They don't experience fear and doubt

because they're passive. They are spectators. Many women that are moving forward in life It's a sign that you're moving forward or desired to move forward. Okay, but quick break down a fear down pride I won't spend time on all of them the number one fear is the fear of the unknown It's terrifying Sorry The fear of the unknown is I think the greatest fear we talked about that, it is paralyzing.

So let's not overthink this fear. What do we not know? Let's dive into it. What are we afraid of? Well, I'm afraid that if I pursue this and I leave this career at the age of 42 and I go here, that I'm going to be homeless starving under a bridge. Let's just call it out. Okay. It's fine. I'm not making fun of it. And by the way, it doesn't even have to be that extreme. It does it. It could just be like, well, if it doesn't work out then what?

Right, but let's own it. Yeah. Let's get the fear out of our head. And I tell people to write the fear down. It's a powerful psychological experiment. Data proves this. Let's get it out. And then let's just put it on the witness stand like those cheesy, you know, crime dramas. Let's put it on the stand. Is fear protecting me or is it holding me back? Because sometimes fear is protecting us.

And other times it's holding me back. So I gotta find out is fear telling me the truth. So we go, the fear of the unknown, so we go, what must be true for this fear to come true, right? That's how we kind of play with that one. Right. Fear of failure, let's play the failure out. What's the worst possible result that could happen

if I don't have some calculated risks? Right. Come on folks, let's walk through this. And then we're gonna say, okay, I'm not gonna go bankrupt and whatever. And then there's fear of peers. It's a big one. What are other people gonna say?

I got this really great job, great benefits. We got the country club membership, got the second home on the beach. People get all hung up on this. I get it. Those are big doubt. There's a little different. Doubt is I don't have enough time.

I don't have enough money. I don't have enough talent. Interesting that fear and doubt are nasty little cousins. Let me tell folks the difference between the two. I was gonna say, what is the difference? I feel they're like sisters. They are, but they're very different. So fear is, let's use the word worried for this exercise.

I'm worried about what could happen to me. Doubt is, I'm worried that what I want to happen won't happen. So one isbt is, I'm worried that what I want to happen won't happen. So one is fear is I'm something negative. Happens to me. Doubt is something good won't happen. That's the difference. Very big difference.

And they loved hanging out together. William James is considered by many to be the father of modern psychology. And he once said, this is powerful. No matter how absurd something is, if it is repeated often enough, people will believe it. No matter how absurd something is, if it is repeated often enough, people will believe it. Now we've seen that through history. We've seen dictators, brainwashed, we've seen religious leaders, brainwashed people. It's powerful, it's true.

Yeah, it's absolutely. But let's talk about the voice we let's look up at the person we listen to most ourselves me and So if I've got an absurd thought in my head and I don't get it out on paper and I don't put it on trial That sucker is just gonna hang out like roller skating night back in the 80s and skates around our head and all of a sudden what is absurd initially becomes safe all of a sudden what is absurd initially becomes safe, becomes a reality. And we make excuses for it.

I can't tell you how many dudes I've had to get in their face because I can do this with dudes. So, hey bro, you're a little boy and it's okay, but like you've created this absurdity and you're not being the man that you're supposed to be, the person, the human you're supposed to be, the person, the human you're supposed to be, because of the excuse of providing for your family, you're gonna provide for your family or whatever. I hear this a lot with guys. They won't step out because,

well, they've created a safety excuse. Well, the safe thing is just keep letting my soul slowly seep out of my body. And as a result, I'm dragging that home with me and I'm a worse spouse. I'm a worse dad. I'm a worse friend. See, that's the reality of the stuff. I mean, it's a clarion call for me to minute women to say, Hey, you can't separate your work life in your personal life. You just can't because if you're not doing something that fires your soul up at work, it is eventually going to work its way into your personal life. Right. How does it not, right? It's impossible.

But that's more also, you just describe, feels like it's reinventing of yourself, right? Like I think that's a big area, right? Sure. People who, there's two things, right? It's like finding your purpose and finding your quote unquote, dream job or what's right for you. Sure. Then it's like the next step or that is how do you reinvent yourself? If you've been doing the same job or doing something that feels safe and is safe, you know,

day in and day out, and you know, I feel like COVID also did a number with this, right? Amanda's. Right. And now everybody feels like they don't want to waste their life or they feel like that screwed that. I'm not going back to the office. It's reinvention time. Yeah.

I love that point. You know what I would do? I would come back to those three little questions that I gave earlier. Yeah. It's the same thing. Who are some new people I want to help? What problem do they have? The same thing.

Same exercise, but it can absolutely be in a different lane. And well, I think what I'm going to use myself as an example here just for this thing, but people get pigeonholed a lot. If you are exceptionally known in one space, like I've written a bunch of fitness books, people only see you in that one area, even though people don't see the back end, right? They only see the front facing stuff. People don't think, oh, if she can be a good fitness person and a good business person, everyone gets very marginalized. That's right. What do you tell, do you have advice for people to re, for that reinvention and not getting caught up in that

and that getting pigeonholed. Yeah, I am well. And to pivot. And really it's about pivoting at this time. Yeah, I love that. First of all, let's just stop worrying about what everybody thinks. Right.

I mean, you know, but it's not about what you worry about. It's what people's offered. Like if people is psychology, right? Oh, yeah. People look at you as the career guy. Let's just make that you're the career coach. Sure, sure. Right? And all of a sudden you want to be, I don't know, make it, you

know, you want to be a fashion designer. Sure. Okay. Totally 180 or whatever. Yeah. Even though you know that you're not that person, and you can be, you can be, you could be a multitude of things. Yeah. It's other people's perception that won't even give you that opportunity. That's right. Yes. And that is fair if we allow them to hold those keys. So how do you how do you not? Yeah, so what you do is you go wait a second. Do I have the talent to make this pivot? Let's go back to talent passion mission. I want to know do I have the talent to do it? So let's make something up. Let's say that and by the way, I speak on leadership as well You know, so I'll give leadership talk and made of 6,000 leaders, but you gotta bring it.

So part of this answer is, I'm gonna get to this, but like you gotta have something that when you bring it, it doesn't matter what everybody else says because the marketplace goes, that's legitimate. So that's kind of the overarching answer. But the way we do that is we go, okay, wait a second. You and I were talking, we love vintage shoes. I'm a child of the 80s.

The team always gives me a fun, hard time. I care about clothes. More than probably the average suit, I just do. I care. I dress well. Thank you very much. If I were to design a pair of shoes, which I could see myself doing,

if I ever had the time and interest in it. Crazy, it's a fashion designer then. Well, I'm going with your example. I would never be a true fashioner there, but I could design shoes. I would enjoy that. This summer, go to the movies. Project it on the side of a mountain.

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Okay, so what do I have to do to kind of overcome this for 20 years you've been this? Well, first thing is, I'm gonna try it and test it and see, do I have the talent to pull it off? I'm not gonna make this giant jump. I remember interviewing Jack Dorsey, co-founder of Twitter years ago, and Jack said something so brilliant.

He didn't set out to start Twitter. He set out to try to create the best grid in San Francisco for getting somewhere. How do you get from here to here to here? That's how he started it. And then a little one thing led to another and he tested it. He was super passionate about this. And he tested with all his good friends and family members who were telling the truth. And they were like, dude, it's really great, but nobody wants that. Okay, so there's this idea of testing is my point. So I'm gonna design a couple pairs of shoes,

just a couple, and I'm gonna see, do I have the chops? Can I do this to the point where we go, yes, I would pay for that. I mean, the end of the day, that's the ultimate. That's the ultimate point. We go, we'll a consumer trade you a certificate of appreciation, otherwise known as a dollar, but that's the deal. It's a great Jewish rabbi friend of mine, rabbi Daniel Lapin, who says that. He says, the audience, the customer will tell you if you're good by certificates of appreciation. And he calls it the dollar. It's a wonderful. That's so cute.

Yeah, he's great. He's a genius. So anyway, I think you test first. Are you okay? Is anybody jiving on this? Are they really down with this? Okay. All right, now we go.

All right. Now I know I can do it. So now I'm going to actually do it. I've tested. Now I'm going to put myself out there. This is where courage comes in. I'm clear. I'm gonna actually do it. I've tested, now I'm going to put myself out there, this is where courage comes in. I'm clear, I'm confident, and now I'm courageous enough to put this stuff out there.

And I'm gonna tell everybody in my audience, hey, you know me as this, I really like designing shoes. I've been puttin' around for about six to eight months on this, here's my first shoe, and I've got this, and I'm putting it out there, and I think it's really gonna think you'll like it. Go check my shoe out. And so you begin to put yourself out there,

and it's just like anything else. The pivot happens because of the courage to actually do it. And so people go, oh, but they go, oh, they don't go, oh well, Ken's only an expert over here. There's no way I'm gonna look at his shoe. They're gonna look at my shoe and they're gonna go, huh, I like it. I'm not gonna buy it, but I like it,

or it doesn't do any for me, or I love it. And now I'm playing to the people that love it, and I'm trying to win over the people that go, it's nice, I'm not ready to buy it now. So, right, so you had your proof of concept, basically? Yes. And then you ask people who are close to you with their true, real, honest opinions.

Yeah, you gotta have great feedback. And then go test it with real people too. And so that's that point in the story where I'm gonna put it out of my Instagram feed, right? Yeah. I'm gonna run a thousand people and I'm gonna go, hey, I'm doing this right now. It's a little side hustle.

Hey, my shoe is for sale. We'll go find out real quick. What people think. Now Instagram, by the way, and social media is not a wonderful testing ground for selling. People are consuming content. They're not buying largely off of those platforms. But the idea is I could at least test it.

Absolutely true. However, okay, what if you don't have a hundred thousand followers and you're just somebody who wants to pivot from, let's say, HR to someone who wants to be from let's say HR to someone who wants to be in marketing or PR. That's a great question. So we go back to the construct. Do I have transferable talents?

The talents I have, do they allow me to be good in? What did you say? Was it PR? Anything PR? Great. So I was in HR and I'm going to PR marketing. So I'm going to go, do I have the raw talent, what are transferable skills from HR to PR or whatever, to marketing, storytelling. And so then I'm going to go, okay, got the

baseline talent. No question I can develop the skills. Now, where do I best do that? A lot of people think, well, I got to go back to school. It's garbage. You don't need a four-year degree to be good in marketing. But there's some great marketing courses you can take online that are very legitimate. I go do those instantly. Let's get after it. Early morning late at night, let's go get qualified. It's stage two in the seven stages we unpack in the book. So I'm going to go get qualified.

So there's something I need to learn and then there's something I need to do. So now what experience do I need to move from HR to marketing? Well in all reality, I might need to move from HR to marketing? Well in all reality, I might need to get an entry-level marketing position. That's a $30,000 pay cut, Ken, what do I do? You decide. Exactly. And there's also been a ton of, and you talk with us too, I mentioned this many times, when a lot of research and data backing that people's, people rather make much less money and do what they like to do versus just making a bunch of money.

Without question. And there's a lot of, I mean, that's mental health, we talked about mental health before, right? Oh, yeah. There's a huge, the golden handcuffs thing is a real thing and people would actually sacrifice that

if they can actually do what they love. No question. But what I wanted to say actually to what you were saying, but the pivoting and reinventing yourself, and again, you've mentioned this, I don't know what number it is in your seven-step program, but the connecting. Yes, stage three. Stage three. Stage three, okay.

So it's great segue in just an intercession. Yeah, so one time qualified while I'm getting qualified, by the way, I'm getting connected. Because I can do that, do both of those stages at the same time. Right. See, that's where opportunities come. I'll talk about it because you talk about the difference between connecting and networking. Yeah, I hate networkers. We all do.

They're like vampires. You can see them coming. We've all been at networking events where you walk in and you put that stupid sticker on your lapel and you feel like you're in a dating, like a speed dating gross thing. And I'll never forget the first one I went to and I'm an extreme extrovert folks, like extreme extrovert. I love people, I can meet people anywhere.

I'm down, I love people. But those events make me like clammy. And here's why, I walked into my first one, I'll never forget and this guy was like, hey, Ken, you know, you know, he's all into me. And I'm like, man, this is great. This was a great decision. I'm glad I came here.

This guy's, he's really into me. This is gonna be a great relationship. And 30 seconds later, he's found out that I can do nothing for him. And he's immediately looking over my left shoulder. I'm bearing my soul. And he's like, uh-huh, yeah. And he's effectively leaving me for dead.

He's bit into my neck, sucked whatever he could out of me. And it moves on. And I'm a heap on the floor. And so. Was it in LA? He must have been in LA. No, it's in every city in America. I know.

But the reality is, is that networking is very selfish in nature. It is very, I'm looking to find who can help me. And there's a slight spirit change. The reason I'm playing on words here, some people take me so literally, I'm like, would you just listen to what I'm saying? You still have to get out and connect. But networking is very selfish in nature.

I'm trying to figure out who can help me get here. And here's what I know fast forwards, connections and opportunities. It is taking on the spirit of a student. I want to be a learner, not a not a networker. And so when I go in and so, so let's take my daughter, Josie, she's 13. And let's say Josie wants to get into your space one day. I'm calling you.

And I'm going to go Jennifer. I'm sending Josie out. We're going to fly out. And I want Josie to spend an hour at lunch if you'll do lunch with her. And you're going to hopefully save, of course. And I'm going to tell Josie, and here's what I want you to do. I want you to have something to write with, and I want you to have questions prepared ahead of time, and I want you to feel like you're doing a research paper on Jennifer's career.

And how she got where she's at, because you're interested in doing that. And so I want you to sit with her and be a student. So she's going to have a posture of humility. Grateful to be with you. Thank you so much for doing this. She's going to be humble in that she's asking you questions to learn. She's looking for knowledge and wisdom, two different things. Knowledge is I'm looking for some facts. And then wisdom, I got some thoughts here on what you're taking on some of the things I'm thinking about. Now, here's what happens. Let's say that that happens without me.

You're gonna be so blown away by a young girl who seeks you out that way, that she's not even gonna have to ask you for connections. Because you're probably gonna go, hey, there's a couple other friends of mine that I'm gonna connect you with and I think you'd be good to you. She doesn't have to sit there and go,

can I get a job working for you? Or will you hire me? Or will you tell this person, doesn't have to be that gross. It just needs to be, I wanna learn to you. You know what I mean? She doesn't have to sit there and go, can I get a job working for you? Or will you hire me? Or will you tell this person? Doesn't have to be that gross. It just needs to be, I want to learn from you. Who else at the very end of the conversation? Who else do you think I need to connect with? Who else would be good for me to learn from? And most likely, you're going to be willing to help her. Now, you may hire her later. You may never hire her, but you never know where that's going to come back. And when we stack that kind of sponge mentality, like, I'm just going to be a sponge. I'm going to be sponge, be a sponge.

Oh my goodness, the opportunities that come to you. And some of the opportunities that I've had, I mean, there's no business for me to be where I am right now, starting as late as I did at 33 other than I was really, really good at connecting and learning and asking questions and never asking for favors. But I asked questions for knowledge. I asked questions for wisdom. That's extremely attractive. Successful people, by the way.

I don't know if you found this. I think a lot of people are intimidated to approach them. But I found this successful people like, come on in, the water's great. Right, I think you're right. I think that I agree with you. I do think, I call it curiosity, right? Yes. It's just like, because you, and someone who's naturally curious, it's easier to connect with people like that because you're not coming from a place of like

genuinely wanting to like know something versus what's in it for me. And that's why, by the way, I love this podcast. And this is why I even do this podcast because I'm genuinely curious in knowing things about people beyond the surface stuff. And I agree with you. I think most successful people appreciate that. So you don't have to be so overt and be like, hey, so what can you do for me?

But I think interest in being interested versus being very interested is very important. Yes. And I agree with you 100%. I call it being helpable. Helpable. There's a track to that. It's like, I want to help this kid. Yeah. I want to help this person. I've listened. I think it's 100. And I can't stand that idea of people looking. And it happens all the time, especially where I live. But people are always looking over someone's shoulders.

See, who's better to talk to? Who's better? It's gross. It's 100%. You know what I mean? And I think that there is a thing about water does find that finds its level. You know, people gravitate to things

that are similar in feeling. And if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. Oh yeah. Right? Oh, it's absolutely right. And you know, being helpable, by the way, is also finding opportunities on your journey to help others.

You never know where it's going to come back to. 100% I understand. For the story I share in the book about a lady who to my dying day, I will forever, and every once in a while, just send her a text and go, thank you so much. I was in Atlanta, I was the three kids in it, I'm trying to figure out how do I transition from, you know, this consulting business to full-time broadcasting,

can I even feed my family? This is tough, you know, and I'm trying to figure it out. And I was at a real place of pity. It was pretty pathetic. Sitting around, just know, and I'm trying to figure it out. And I was at a real place of pity. It was pretty pathetic, sitting around just like, I'm talented. Why isn't, you know what I mean, just like, it's pathetic. And the thought hit me.

It was not pathetic, I think it's being real. Oh, I was pathetic. But why? I mean, you're a part of your life. I was frustrated. I tell you why, because I was spending more time griping and complaining instead of getting busy. And so I realized I had a little truth hit me one day and it was,

nobody's sitting around thinking about how they can help Ken Coleman. They get their own life. I'm serious. I mean, that's what I mean by put that like, nobody's sitting around going, that Ken Coleman guy. Now there's a talented guy. Let me call him up and just look him up like this. But this is the mindset we have.

We can sit around waiting for somebody to discover us. It's entitled in a little bit. It is 100%, which is why I called myself out. You were very nice, but it was pathetic. I was having a pity party. I was the only person there, human ear. You know what I'm talking about? And then I got serious and I walked down, never forget.

Pulled up my laptop and I looked at my Mac and I said, all right, I'm gonna go through every contact if it takes me five days. And I'm gonna see, do they know somebody that knows somebody in broadcasting? I just, it was old school, like, let me just figure this out. And several months before this moment of pity, several months before I was running a sponsorship company

for a large live event. And a friend of mine called me and said, hey, would you go to lunch with me and my friend Elizabeth, she runs a nonprofit and she told me the mission of nonprofit. I mean, it was like, this is amazing. I love this mission. She's like, would you do lunch with her? She didn't have any money. She can't afford you.

But would you just help her out, get some sponsorship ideas going and it would be a favorite of me. And I said, of course, so I got a lunch with Elizabeth, getting a knower, small talk. And in the early small talk, she mentioned that her family under radio station. And I made note of it, but like it wasn't appropriate. And you know, and I wasn't in that zone, I was helping her. So fast forward back to this day of pity.

And for a couple of months, I'd been calling local radio stations, just asking for a phone call back. And I said, I'll pay my way on on a Saturday Sunday. I will pay for an hour. I'm going to ask you to hire me. Okay. Nothing crickets. So that day I come across Elizabeth Carzwell's note and I was like, she said that her family owned a couple of talk radio stations in this area. I wonder which ones they were. I didn't even ask. So I fire her an email instantaneously, Elizabeth. Now there's a point to the story.

I said, Elizabeth, because you're going, where are you going with this? Elizabeth says, I mean, I email, I said, Elizabeth, would you have five minutes for me some time soon? She, five minutes later. Hey, I'm in my office right now. I'm wide open. Give me a call.

So I call Elizabeth up. She answers right away. I said,. How you doing? How's everything going? You know connecting? And I said hey during our lunch, you mentioned that your family has a radio station. What were they? She says them and I immediately go this is one of the stations I've been targeting and I couldn't get any response. So I tell her I go hey, I'm willing to pay But the station general manager's not getting back to me. Can you help me with him? She goes, she goes, I'm gonna call my brother. He runs the station. I have you meeting this week. Fast forward, I get a meeting, I get on the air, I pay my way on, I do it for a year,

year and a half. They love my show so much that they put me on Monday through Friday during drive time, people come at home all because, and here's the story, I took an opportunity to help Elizabeth when there was nothing in it for me. And you're, you know, months later, years later, that turned into the opportunity that got me noticed by Dave Ramsey. So I want people to understand. That was how that was. Well, he knew me, but he, he started paying attention to my radio show. And when he listened to me for was how that was well he knew me But he he started paying attention to my radio show and when he listened to me for that That's when he offered me the job. He's like this guy can do live radio and you see what I'm saying And so of course I see what you're saying. It's like speaking my language I could not agree to you more like also that that just goes to show you that in my opinion again

This is my opinion a lot of times it's not the people that you expect to be helpful to you. That's right. That are the most helpful, is the people that you kind of like don't even like consider to be like an option. Like some of my best, that's why when you're saying this story, I was listening and smiling because some of my most incredible opportunities came from the most just arbitrary ways and from people that I barely even knew

that I met one time, that was just like, it was a blip in something else. But I would guess it was a, can I ask you, can I turn the tables on? Yeah, go ahead. I'm guessing those were, they were, while they may have been quick interactions, they were wholesome, they were real.

They were genuine. Always very genuine. And so they had a positive feeling about you when you reintroduce to them, right? Or when you come back in their minds, I they go, oh, that was good. I like Jennifer. I mean, 100%. I never go into any situation. To as that networker, right?

People are like, oh, you're such a great networker. I'm like, actually, it's up to them a great networker. I'm like, actually, it's not that I'm a great networker. I think I'm a good connector because I'm genuinely curious and interested and I'm going into an opportunity thinking this is going to be, I'm not opportunistic about the opportunity. Not at all. And I don't know how you could,

I don't know how you teach someone not to be, right? Because it's hard to, I would tell them this, just turn that opportunity gauge off. Off, right. And just go in and learn, okay? Like learn about them. One of the pieces of advice I give my kids, and I give to a lot of young people is

anytime you get in a room, I early on in my career, Jennifer, I would get in these rooms, these big leadership conferences, and like, I'm in the room with Malcolm Gladwell, one of the smartest people on the planet. This is before I had the opportunity to interview him, and I go, I might get to meet him, and I would be that guy in the room who's smiling, you know, but underneath I'm going, if I get a chance to say hi to Malcolm, I'm not going to say, Malcolm, hey, I love your books. You're a brilliant genius guy, because he hears that all the time. I'm going to go, I love your books. You're a brilliant, genius guy, because he hears that all the time.

I'm gonna go, I'm gonna say, Malcolm, how are you? Hey, let me ask you a quick question and ask him a good question. It's simple, but is, he's good, and let me start, I started doing that. And next thing you know, I remember the first time I met him, he's talking to me for 20 minutes. Do you know why?

Because I led with a question about a specific part in his book and I said, hey, you wrote about this in tipping point and I had a question about that. And I, before he could even, you know, he's like, I'm not, I mean, as much time as it takes to go, hey, I'm a big fan, I love your work and all that stuff. I'm asking a question from Page 27 or whatever it was. Absolutely.

So here's the point I'm making. Always be learning. So even if it's not Malcolm Gladwell and like you get an opportunity to go somewhere and you know you're in a room full of successful people, first of all, go find the white haired people. That's where I'm at. I'm always wanting to hang out with the old people. If I'm in go find the white-haired people. That's where I'm at. I'm always

wanting to hang out with the old people. If I'm in any room of very successful people, I'm matriculating towards the old people because there's wisdom. There's wisdom there. And I want to talk to people that are 20, 30 years ahead of me because they've forgotten more about success than I know. That's a great, great piece of advice. I mean, it's gold, but you gotta be willing to just be someone who's interested in them. You don't even know them, just go up to them. Hey, how you doing?

You don't know who they are. Next thing you know, they've like, you know, they're worth $300 million or $2 billion. I met a guy in an NBA game like this recently. True story. So I gotta tell you, so I'm in Phoenix doing business. The client says, hey, we got a suite at the Phoenix Suns game. You want to go. I'm big, you know, I'm big basketball. So I'm like, yeah, I'm in. So he's like, we got a suite. So we go to the suite,

you know, during the quarter breaks and a half time. And I immediately see this old dude walks up. He's got a plaid shirt on, tucked in, pleated pants, you know, I'm like this my guy That's who I want to talk to so he walks up. Hey, how you doing? I'm Ken. What's your name? Start talking how you know, you know, you know guy was a billionaire Yeah from families from Norway He's third generation CEO of a commercial construction company and the company's gonna do $7 billion this year And I'm like, you know, eating a cheap hot dog talking to this billionaire all because I was willing to just go up and ask questions about him Now I didn't ask him for anything. There's you know, but you know what? He's like, what do you do after I was interested in him?

Then the billionaire tells me he goes, well, what do you do? And I tell him, he goes, you're kidding me. He goes, we really have a problem with engagement. We have a big problem with engagement in our company. He's like, it says this guy walks over, says this is our chief operating officer, get Ken's information. Now, I don't know if I'm gonna go speak for them, because I don't know.

But my point is, is that that's all, that's what I'm talking about. When you're in the room, find the right people and just be interested. Don't leave with you. I find the old people. Old people first. And then interesting people be interested in them.

Because when you're interested in them, it is a very attractive quality and then they will play tennis with you. I think that's exactly on point. I agree with you 100%. Now, this will also segue into the other piece of the question, which is the proximity principle. You've got to put yourself in these situations to win and to get this. Explain that, talk about it.

Yeah. I came up with the proximity principle to just help people understand the key to opportunity is strategic connection. We've been talking about a little bit. The proximity principle says, in order to do what you want to do, fill understand the key to opportunity is strategic connection. We've been talking about a little bit. The proximity principle says, in order to do what you wanna do, fill in the blank, you gotta be around people that are doing it in places where it is happening. I kinda touched on this idea,

let's say my daughter wanted to get into what you do. It's like I'm gonna help her connect with women and men who are in that space, because when she's around them, she is observing them. She's learning from them by asking good questions. And people, the right people point us to the right places. And then, interestingly enough, when we get in those places, we meet more of the right people. And so what happens is it becomes this cyclical process and it becomes a habit of, you know

what, I don't have to ask for anybody to really to help me. I just have to ask about knowledge, ask about wisdom. I want to run around and write people who are some other people that I need to get around. What are the places that somebody like me needs to be? And if I want to win in this area, oh, over here, over here, online, this learning group here, whatever, whatever. And so when we do that, we realize

that we are constantly being intentional. And so really it's a simple principle to teach intentionality. Intentionality about being around the right people and in the right places. And really does come back to what is the most famous relationship study done ever by Harvard. I think it's in its 75th, 60 year.

They've been following people from birth to life, Jennifer, it's fascinating. And now the head of the study, I share this quote all the time, on my show on stages. They've concluded that 95% of your success in any area of your life is directly related to the people you spend the most time with. Success or failure. So if you're failing in your physical life, I can just tell you without knowing you, you're hanging out with people that don't take their physical health seriously. If you're stuck

professionally, you're hanging out with other people that are stuck. I'm just going to tell you, I can, I don't have to know tell you. I don't have to know their names, I don't have to know their details. And so if we look at this truth that 95% of success or failure is based on who we spend the most time with, you've got to spend time with the right people. They set the pace for you.

Naturally, if you're just hanging out with people that are getting after it. You know what's funny? Is that the same study? It's very similar, probably like a sister again, but the five people that you hang up with the most is basically the top of the game. Oh yeah, Jim Rohn, Jim Rohn, the legendary, he kind of said that, but this is actual, like this is Harvard's data.

They studied people's entire lives. And they're like any year of your life, success or failure, it's directly related to people you spend the most time. So it could be five people, it could be two people. That's a really amazing, I like that. Yeah, I think it's very valid and if you really, if I'm thinking about it right now in my life, yeah, right, like I think that's a great,

I think that's gonna be interesting. I mean, if you're negative, I'm gonna tell you right now, spend time with some positive people. You know what I mean? Like I'm just, if you're a naturally negative person, you lean that way. It's okay. That's so true.

Hang out with some positive people and watch how your mentality will change. If you're a victim type thinker, you always think, you know, then, because, oh, so I'll be really transparent. Because of my life and my journey, I have an edge on my shoulder, I really do.

And I use the edge properly, but I've been to therapy about it. What kind of edge do you have? Just being overlooked and rejected. Just because I was the littlest guy in the basketball court. No, I'm saying, there's a pattern of this. You know, like, you know, just, you know,

like people not, I've, when I got into broadcasting, I mean, I had a guy tell me in Atlanta, you don't have the talent to make it in a number 10 market. You know, I'm an adult, that hurts. You know, now I'm nationally syndicated and I host co-host Second largest radio show in America. I got the talent. I knew I did, but it hurt.

And I believed him for about three weeks. Did the edge come from when you were a kid, though, you said when you were playing basketball? Yeah, also my dad, my relationship with my dad too, who I love and have a great relationship, but there's a chip there, you know, because I wasn't a good student. So I'm the kid with ADHD who did need medication.

You didn't go on medication? No, good, yeah. That's a whole nother podcast. That's a whole other podcast I know. And I don't want to hack anybody off who's actually diving into this much more helpful content. But my point is, is that I thrived in subjects that I was really good at.

Hello, this is human that's not Ken this. But my dad was a straight A student, honor society, you know, full ride to Michigan. You know, that kind of got what he do for a living. Well, he ended up going into ministry and pastoring, which is why I love people so much, but he was an engineer. He was on the path to be an engineer Yeah, he became a pastor totally switch gears Yeah, that's a whole nother conversation, but the point is is like my dad was tough on me because I was a terrible student And you're not gonna mount them much. You're gonna pump gas blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and so they created an edge, because I never believed him. You didn't. No.

I thought you were gonna say the opposite, because usually, the dude's finishing. No, that's what developed the chip though. Right. I'm gonna show you. It's gonna, I'm gonna show you, but it's, there's like an insecure, that kind of is, it's very much so. It's in there, right?

It's underneath the chip. It's underneath the chip, like that, am I good enough? 100%. And like, I am gonna like prove that I'm good enough a hundred percent And so you'll stop at nothing to prove that you are good enough. I'm very much that way still I mean now I've been in therapy over it and I'm very aware of it and I'm much healthier than I was But at 47 I'll be 48 this summer. I mean, you know, look, I'm still that little boy who now the chip can be good. So my therapist said don't get rid of the chip just be much more aware of the chip

The chip is good, but let's not bring the chip out all the time Does that make sense? Let's keep that chip. But listen Tom Brady's got a chip the greatest football player of all time He's drafting the seventh round, you know, didn't even play much at Michigan. You know, so most people, Michael Jordan had a chip. What I was most super successful people, I think there's been a bunch of through lines that I've noticed in my life, in my business life, on the podcast life, of all, most of the people I've met who are like really successful. I'm talking like next level like disruptors in the world is because they had a chip on their shoulder

But they used it as fuel. They use their pain for fuel That's right to push through it and become like just winners in life That's exactly right. I think in a way people need that I think like you're the edge that you're saying or that type of like situation Really actually works to people's advantage, not disadvantage. I agree. I absolutely agree. And I see people even now, like I, who have had, who have just like a stellar life, they've no problems, they've got tons of money, they're beautiful, and there's like something missing.

There's like a vapidness, and when you don't have to like work super hard for something, it's very, very hard to really, really like drive and succeed and be like hungry and gritty. See, there's no purpose in that. It's full circle. That person has no purpose. There's no why, Andre. They haven't, no, they didn't have the work for it.

They have to like prove it. That's why I put, there's no pain associated. Right, there's no pain. I think pain equals purpose. I think pain equals purpose. Well, there's absolutely right. How can. Right, there's no pain, like I think pain equals, I think pain equals purpose. All right, well, there's absolutely right. How can it not color the way you see the world? Your pain automatically connects you to a lot of people

in this world who've been through similar pain. That's why again, you see so many people that do great things and you dive into their story and it goes back to a point in their life where they were either in pain or somebody they loved dearly was dealing with pain. So many people that are in counseling either went through tremendous stuff

themselves, tremendous trauma and overcame it or they saw a loved one go through trauma and they go, I want to help there. And so it's very pain oriented. I think it's impossible to not see some level of discomfort or pain in any true why statement, a purpose statement with anybody. It's just, it's impossible.

We as humans, we can't help our humanists, this desire to step up and help. It's what's great about our world. Like we can be so divided, which we are. And then September 11 happens or some other major crisis and we put aside faith, politics and whatever other nuclear bomb that creates conversations with people. And we go, you know what? It's time to step up and help people. Right. And then step up. So there you can't for the person who's searching,

I get back to those three simple questions, Jennifer, because it really is enlightening. Who do you most want to help? What problem do you want to solve? What's the solution or what are the multiple solutions? And therein lies the freedom, because you can come at, there's that back to that idea that there are multiple dream jobs.

Right, or soulmates, or... Yeah. One, quite last question. I mean. Right, or soulmates, or yeah. One quite last question. I mean, maybe like second last or last, depending on how long the answer is. Okay, I'll be quick. No, no, no, just be concise. Yes.

Not for me, just because I don't want people to tune out because they're like, oh, I'm at the restaurant. Yeah, yeah, right, right, right. How do people stick with whatever they are? I think you were saying earlier, you're a great starter, but you are a terrible finisher. Yeah, so it's interesting. Which is interesting,

because I think people, that's a lot of people's problem, right? They start something, they don't finish, they lose patience, they lose direct, they lose focus, and that's when things go to hell on the hand best. I actually think that's one area that's very important to follow through and see through. How do you tell people of how they can go the long haul?

Yes, stay with it. On that starter side of things, I'm great at finishing things that I really, really love. Yes. So I've got to start the right things and therein lies the discipline. So what I will say is discipline is a big part of it, actually. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But you know where the discipline comes from? Passion. From passion.

Yeah, I just, the discipline person who works out, the passion is what feels the discipline. Or it's also, I also a result oriented also. And also, I also believe in delayed gratification. I think you go through the pain or you go through the like bad stuff to get to the good stuff. I don't actually love working out. I actually despise it now. So I'm so over it.

Right. And I'm, you know, so it's very missional then. Is that a passion, it's mission. It was passion for so many years. And then what's happened is now it turns to like, when you're really, really busy. But I need to do it because on the other side, I love the feeling.

I love the focus being more alert, being more, I do it more for the mental aspects and for the physical aspects. But you've got to go through that like annoyance, in life. The fitness is just an analogy. I don't always hate it. I'm saying there's days when I just don't want to go through it.

I don't hate it daily, but you have to do it anyway because of the results. You really led to the answer to your question, how do you stay with it? It's about the desired future. You just beautifully kind of laid it out for yourself and what it looks like for you. It's your desired future, what's your desired future. In other words, what's the pinnacle? Sir Edmund Hillary is known as probably

the greatest adventurer in the world, First Man to Climb Mount Everest. By the way, he wasn't done. Then he goes on to be the first man to go to the South Pole and the North Pole. So what drives a Gaelic Siremin Hilary? Well, he's no different than the rest of us. So the key to staying with it, Jennifer, is simply put, I never lose sight of the mountain top. Never. I have to show up in the grind. But I always am glancing. I know why I'm doing what I'm doing. What am I really going after?

What is that desired future? Well, does that look like for you? And when we grab hold of that, and it is rooted in purpose, I really believe the talent-passion mission formula allows you to get a really clear why. And what keeps you staying with it is the desired future. So we write about it in the book. Hillary gets to the top of the mountain. He's with the Sherpa climbing partner and they take pictures and they put things up there and not moments after that. He sees another mountain range

and he says that's the one we climb next. So what I love about the seven stages in the book, it really answers your questions. When we get to the dream job, the sixth stage, we don't get a glass of tea and head out in the hammock, we are view changes because we've been going up the whole time and now we get to the top of the mountain, our view changes, now we're looking out. And there we see another mountain we climb. And there we keep evolving.

So we stay with it because we continually evolving and growing. That's the answer. And so it's still rooted because we continually evolving and growing. That's the answer. And so it's still rooted in why it's just a different mountain. You know, what keeps Coach Kay and John Wooden and these coaches that have, you know, coached for so long and they stay in it so long after they've achieved everything. Well, there's another new challenge. And they find another new challenge. It's still on purpose, but effectively it's another mountain of climbing. So when we have that mindset and

we the final stage just for the audience in the book, stage one is get clear, stage two, get qualified, stage three, get connected, stage four, get started, stage five, get promoted, stage six, get the dream job. The seven stages give yourself away. I chose that wording very, very purposefully because this is the idea where we've achieved the point where we're not working for income any longer. We're no longer working for accolade. We're working for legacy. In other words, fingerprints we left behind when we leave this earth, could they tell that we were here? And to me, that's give yourself away. I can ask you one more question. You can ask me as many questions you want. Okay, so would you, just to sum this up, what would you say is the, besides the pride,

besides the fear and all this other thing, would you say that is the reason why most people are not successful or what would you say is the number one reason why most people are not successful? Yeah. I think it's a lack of awareness that they, what they can be. I think fear and doubt and pride are underneath that. But I really, that's why I've committed my professional life to helping people discover what it is that they can do and what it is that they should do. Right. The should is key. And the should is very personal. You know, greatness lies within uniqueness. There's a lot of people in our world and our space that they poo poo passion. I don't know what they're talking about because they don't think about it in the right context. Remember,

I didn't talk about passion being enough. Now I tell it passion and mission all three. But the reason most people, by the way, this is one of the best questions I've ever been asked, nobody's ever asked me this. And I'm so excited about it. It is the reason most people don't find that thing and that fulfillment and they get to their deathbed. By the way, one of the top five regrets of of people that are in hospice is I didn't chase that dream. And the reason they don't is because they were never aware of it. And the reason they don't is because they were never aware of it. We don't teach this stuff in schools. What we do, and I'm not knocking and banging on parents, but there is this.

And I'm speaking about the American psyche here. I can't speak to other countries. I'm Canadian, so I'm not offended. Yeah, I don't know what it is in Canada. I would suggest it's probably close, but what do we do? We prepare kids for a safe job and a safe life. 100% true. I think people get what I was saying about the sheds before was that people get stuck in the sheds.

I should be going to law school. I'm Jewish. I should be going to med school. I should be doing this. I should marry the Jewish doctor. That's just, you know, that's just my stuff. But what I'm saying is we all get stuck in the safe sheds that we are, that our culture, our society tells us. And I think that is detrimental to people's happiness because they really are afraid. That's what people

really are afraid of. 100% but they, they don't know what a great future could look like. They don't. You know, here's, I say this all the time on social media. It's by far my most popular post. The American education system is creating test takers, not pathfinders. We don't teach kids to find their path. We teach them to get a degree so they can get a good job. Blah! Nobody wants that. What is Jennifer's unique contribution to the world?

That is so true. That's what I want to teach. Well, to that point, what happens again, I, in my experiences, is that if you're not a good test taker, then you think you're stupid. Me. And then you act as, because then you believe that. And to me, that's the kiss of death. 100% believe and think that they're stupid because they weren't good at school or they weren't good test takers. And that's the beginning of the end.

And that's where the trajectory takes a really bad time. Let me just tell you, let me set some people free. Maybe some parents will set you free today from a former straight C student in college drop. Me too. Oh, I wasn't on a college drop. Yeah, I mean, but I left to go work in college. Yeah, no, I answered. I was an iPod. Yeah, I mean, but I left to go work and post. I mentioned. But here's, yeah, here's the deal.

Answering questions is not the great skill of life. Asking questions is the great skill of life. You and I've been talking about this whole time. You mentioned curiosity. The great thinkers, the great doers, the great inventors, the great leaders, always ask questions. Martin Luther King Jr. dared to ask different questions. Albert Einstein dared to ask different questions. You know, so the reality is is that back to the question you asked, because it was so profound. Most p it's not fear, it's not doubt, it's pride. Those are underlying issues. The issue is, we know where the stars and the moon, we know about the planets, we know all these things. But I think the thing that we know the least about is ourselves. Because I don't think we're taught to truly discover our uniqueness. And it is in our uniqueness Jennifer that greatness lies. People are trying to treat trying to chase greatness. I got

news for you. You will not achieve greatness whatever that looks like until you discover and this is the key embrace your uniqueness. Every personal planet was born at a unique time in history with a unique combination of talent, passion, and mission and a unique audience that they were put on this planet to contribute to. That's what I believe with everything in my being? It is uniqueness that we must discover. And then greatness can happen.

But we've got it all twisted. I like it. Leave it at that. That's perfect. Done. That's perfect. Okay, guys. This is this is Ken Coleman. His book is called From Pay Check to Purpose. Dantara, if you are watching this and not listening, that is the book right there. You are great.

Thank you. You're welcome. And I really, I love that you came on this podcast. I'm thrilled to be here. This is fun. Where do people find you? I know you're part of it. He's part of the day.

I think we mentioned it briefly. For the day, Bramsey Network, you have a radio show. You're on YouTube. KenColman.com. KenColman. You see, easy as, because they can see where the podcast, Bramsey Network, you have a radio show. You're on YouTube. KenColman.com. KenColman.com. You see, easy as, because they can see where the podcast, the show is wherever you get podcasts. We're on YouTube live every day,

Series XM, the business channel. I believe that's 132. And then they replay me every morning, bright and early, if you're a serious listener on channel 111, and then 75 radio stations and wherever books are sold but kincoma.com we have a lot of free resources that we give to people to make some progress so a lot of fun stuff there and we'd love for folks to engage. Thanks Ken. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. So much fun.

The ditto and mutual. Bye. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Holla Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young & Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. Each week, we dive into a new topic like the Art of Side Hustles, how to level up your

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