Habits and Hustle - Episode 173: Jenna Kutcher – Digital Marketer, Host of Goal Digger, and Author

Episode Date: June 28, 2022

Pre-order Jen’s New Book: Bigger, Better, Bolder today: https://amzn.to/3hvtqYp Jenna Kutcher is a Digital Marketer, Host of Goal Digger, and Author. She is a major proponent of just doing what you can with what you have, and this episode is full of little Jenna-isms to break your patterns and nail down your ideas. Seriously, she does her podcast in a closet with no video component, just starting because she knew she’d put it off forever waiting for the “right moment” or for things to be “perfect.” Now, it’s the biggest podcast of its kind in the U.S. with over 65 MILLION downloads and counting, and she didn’t know a thing about podcasting! Not only that, but now she’s written a book without really knowing how and doesn’t seem to be slowing down. Need a little inspiration to kick you into following through on your projects? Looking for someone to snap you out of your own monotony with some practical/actionable advice? Maybe you’ve been in the game a while and need a little reminder of why you’re doing it. Give this one a listen! Youtube Link to This Episode Jenna Kutcher’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/jennakutcher/ Jenna Kutcher’s Website – https://jennakutcher.com/ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's trueniagen, T-R-U-N-I-A-G-N. And we have a special offer for new customers to receive 20% off orders of $100 or more using the code Hustle20. Definitely run, don't walk to scoop them up today. I got this Tony Robbins you're listening to Habits in Hustle. Press it. to have it's in hospital, pressure. Today on the podcast, we have Jenna Kutcher. Guys, I really love Jenna. She is a woman who can do it all.

She had a corporate job left because she always loved photography, became a super successful photographer, and then pivoted it again to the online digital space where she now has these online marketing courses that are well known and so popular that helps thousands, millions of people chase their dreams and really kind of go after what they want. She also has a podcast called Gold Digger, again, Super Successful, where it's a live workshop style business podcast, where she helps people to redefine what success is to them and chase what they want.

Of course, that's my philosophy, so you can imagine how much I love this kid. She also has just developed a really successful company, developed a really thriving brand, has created a beautiful family, and now is also an author. Her book is called How Are You Really? And it's a great read.

I hope you enjoy the podcast. I really enjoyed having this conversation with Jenna, and I hope you do too. Leave me a comment, a review, and let me know your thoughts. Thank you. So today on the podcast, we have Jenna Kutcher who is very has a very very popular podcast. I mean, in the top, is it the top? It's the number one marketing podcast in the country. The number, had me and 65 million downloads, right? And accounting. Yes. It's called Gold Digger. I love that name. Thank you. And also she's an author now wrote a we're just saying

before we started a really good book and it called How Are You Really? And I have to say also you're a very just overall super capable. You've like pivoted from one career to another to another and this is actually the first time I've ever met you. Yeah. I feel like we're old friends. I feel like, yeah, you're from Minnesota. We're just hanging out. I'm from, I'm from, I'm from Minnesota. You're like my kind of person already, right? Yes. This is really a pleasure to meet you.

Thank you. No, thanks for having me. Oh my God, absolutely. I know you're tired. You've been doing the whole podcast after podcasts in LA. It's great. It's a privilege. You know, as a podcast host,

it's really fun to be on the other side. Right. And it is just such a privilege in an honor because it's like people are inviting me onto their platforms and I really don't take it lightly. So truly, thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, you're so welcome. I'm honored to have you.

I love how you've built your business. You've created your business. You've been doing it as you said, unapolog to have you. I love how you've built your business. You've created your business. You've been doing it as you said, unapologetically being you, which I think is why you are as successful as you are. There's a lot of people I think out there who pretend to be authentic, but not really authentic.

And that's part of your whole, the whole charm of you, right? And I have to say also, well, actually, let me say this first, what made you now decide to even put out a book? You're so busy, you've been wanting your mom of two. Yeah. Your, how old is your youngest now?

So my baby is gonna be six months old. Wow. Yeah, and then my other daughter's three and a half. Right, so you're like in the week. Yeah, I am in the thick of motherhood, holy. And so like with that, you also wrote the book. Yeah, on your own. Yeah, I mean, it's been, it's crazy.

So, I mean, just to give a context of like what I mean by in the week. So this is my first trip in nine months without children. I was up at 3 a.m. talking my three year old who woke up screaming for me, telling her how to breathe for an hour or less and I tell her to fall back asleep while pumping. And then I get up and go on a whole day. And you know what though? It's crazy because I've always been a believer that we can do both.

And I know you feel the same way in terms of motherhood and career. But it is not easy. And it comes with a lot of sacrifice. And it comes with this constant questioning of like, am I in the right place at this moment? Yeah. It's interesting. That's a great way of putting it. I feel that it's, you know, I think the sacrifices are really great were to put because at the end of the day, my kids will always come first, I'm sure with you too. And sometimes I don't think it's sometimes a lot of my, sometimes my career will suffer because I have to say no. Absolutely.

And you can't have a flourishing social life plus have a flourishing, you know, marriage and a flourishing like family life and then I also have a flourishing marriage, and a flourishing family life, and then also have a career. So there is this balance thing that has to happen. How do you balance it? What's your kind of ratio? What are you doing? Balance is such a tricky word,

because I actually studied the word, because it was really bothering me, because I don't know why this doesn't stick with me. And the reason why is like balances, like having the scales be totally even and staying there. And to me, balance is like a split second, where it's like, whoa, I found it, but like it's not sustainable.

In my opinion. And so I've found that the word blend it feels a little bit better to me. And I think it actually is very fitting for the culture that we live in where it's like, in the last few years, if you were fortunate enough to be able to, you suddenly had to integrate all the pieces of you in one building, right, from home. Like work, you, mom, you, wife, you, partner, you, friend, you, like, you became a whole person under one roof.

And so for me, what's interesting, and I like that you said to the authenticity pieces that my values are not just things I speak about, it's how I show up and live, and they're very obvious. Like, it's undeniable. And so when I think about the idea of balance, it feels very intimidating to me because like you said, I feel like something always has to be the focus and the other things kind of fade a little bit. Yeah, totally.

And when you start to realize that focus is off, it's just like my photography career, you just shift the focus a bit and widen the lens. So that's kind of how I approach it, but I don't get it right all the time. That's for sure. Well, like how did, because you've built such a big online business, right? Yeah. So you went from being an HR person,

then an executive, and then you just said, you know, I really don't like this. Yes. So I'm going to pivot and make my passion, my real life job, and you became a very successful photographer. Then you pivoted again.

What do you think it is about you? If you would say, is it just tenacity and drive that you're able to do that? What would you say the reasons are that you were able to pivot like that and have the confidence to do that? I've pivoted so many times in a decade. Oh, a ton. But what's actually even more impressive than just pivoting? You keep on pivoting with real success.

Not bullshed, except true success. I believe the top of your field. I receive that. You know what's funny is that I think why it's worked is because I've always stayed in alignment with where I feel like I need to go. And the other piece of that is that I unintentionally at the beginning and then very intentionally once I realized it, built a brand and not a business. A lot of people have businesses where you sell a product or you have an offer, right? People then

only have an opportunity to care about that offer. A brand is the personality behind any offer. My offer has changed 10 times over the last decade. People stay with me because they care more about the personality, aka me, then the actual presented offer. So I have lived many lifetimes in a decade. I'm only 34 and so when I think about all the things that I've done, the reason why I think they've all been successful is one, I haven't been afraid to stand at a starting line and say, I'm gonna qualify myself right now for this race even though I don't know

what it's gonna be like to run it. But two, I am staying so aligned with what I feel like is the next best move. That even if I fail, it doesn't feel like failure. It's like an experiment that yields a result that gives me information to move forward. This episode is brought to you by Nerds Candy, calling all the gaming tech-savvy nerds out there.

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Get the taste of raspberry and dark chocolate for the all warm, all fuzzy, all self-care, zero self-doubt you. Grab a with love today. Vitamin water, zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. Where is that inner confidence come from? I have no idea.

I wish I knew and I have always had it. Yeah. In your book you talk about having when you were like a little, little kid. Little girl, so we would be at the ice ring, which my Canadian here can relate to. Yes, I can, very much. And my brother was a hockey player and we spent so many hours at the rink.

And I would be this little girl in these double-bladed unicorn skates. And I would literally just go up to people and be like, hi, I'm Jenna, J-E-N-N-A. Do you want to be my friend? And I mean, my mom would like see this little hike, like skating around with high schoolers, because I was just willing to go up and like start a conversation. And I think that my confidence, because even in doing interviews and stuff lately,

I have this level of self belief that I hope doesn't come across as boastful or anything, but I feel good in my skin and I feel aligned with what I'm doing and I don't apologize for those things. And so it is. I wish I had like an answer of like, because I want to know as a mom, how do I instill this in my daughters? Well, you know what I find so interesting, because I feel it from you.

Like even when you walked in here, you just have like, you can tell you're very comfortable on your skin and you are who you are. And you know, that could even actually be, sometimes maybe even intimidating for people who don't feel that way, right? Because you so clearly have it. And it's one of those things,

if you can bottle that, it would be $1 million. It's $1 million business,'s $1 million, that's because. That's the missing key that a lot of people grapple with. So, do you think that it was from also, because in your book you talk about this, you had a really strong support system. Your family was like that, and that helped probably. Yeah, my family is very unreal and I recognize that. One of the things that I love about the blessings in my life is that I see them as I'm living them.

Like I don't take them for granted. And my parents raised us to be incredibly hard workers. There's a story in my book that I love and I always get emotional when I tell it, but my parents were really hard workers and they did not always have the resources available to them. And I wanted to be a gymnast and I loved gymnastics. I still love it to this day.

And I was supposed to move up to a new gym and like the tuition costs were really high. And my family couldn't afford it. But my parents never once said no, which they absolutely had every right to, but they said, we'll figure it out. And my mom, one day she was watching me practice and she kind of looked over to the side

and saw that there was a kitchen in the gym and it was like super outdated. And she said, you know, I could paint the cabinets, change out the hardware like, I'm gonna talk to the gym owner and just see if I can, you know, I could paint the cabinets, change out the hardware. Like, I'm going to talk to the gym owner and just see if I can, you know, make a contract or something that will make us be able to afford this. And something that my parents taught me and they went on to do this. And every single year that I was a gymnast for many years, the gym would close down for one week.

My entire family, my grandparents would come in and we renovated the gym from corner to corner, from the locker room to the bathroom. We did all the work so that I could do my dream. And as a mom now, I'm like, holy crap, that is so cool. That like, my mom, who was a nurse, saw this like opportunity and was like, if there's a will, there's a way. Wow.

And I feel like when I think about the support of my family, it really does make me a little weepy because I feel that one, I'm fortunate to have it, but two, my parents instilled this resourcefulness within me to figure things out and to trust in my ability to do that. I don't get scared of not knowing how to do something. I wrote a book.

I've never written a book before. That doesn't scare me because I know I can figure it out. See, because of the inner confidence that you have. So that book, that's a massive undertaking. I'm finishing mine. Also, I have one that comes out in December. Yeah. Like the time.

Oh my God. Nobody knows. It's so time consuming. It's crazy. And your book is like legit. Like it's long. It's like 321 pages. There's a lot of content in there.

And it's like, even though I just met you, it feels like you. Like you can tell you wrote that book. Oh yeah. Yeah. And like, how were I just met you, it feels like you. Like you can tell you're well-bapt, but you know? Yeah. And like, how are you able to do that? Do your podcast, do your online business? Like, how are you splitting your time?

Yeah, it's, okay. So it's really crazy because I did the book thing entirely backwards and I did it that way intentionally. Okay. I'm gonna share this because I wanna give your listeners permission to do things in a way that serves them. So I had gotten Different requests throughout the years of agents or publishers saying like we think you should write a book

Right, and every single time I said no to the point where I had a Gmail folder that said if I write a book and I told my team If anything comes through put it in there, I don't even even wanna see it. Wow. I never felt ready for it, and not in a way that I wasn't ready to approach it, but I didn't know what it would be. Oh. And for so long, people would tell me, Jenna, your next book, or your first book is gonna be this.

This is the idea. And the second somebody gave me an idea, it's washed every ounce of creativity. The second part of that is that I have been a successful entrepreneur for many years now. How many years would you say? A decade. A decade. Yeah. And the minute that money gets involved, I lack creativity. Like, I wanted to write words that tell and not words that sell. And I knew that if somebody had given me a book deal and said, here is your deadline, I would just have analysis paralysis and stare at the Blingman curse all day.

Yeah. So I literally wrote the book without telling my mom with only really letting my husband and one person in. And I wrote the whole thing. And I had the funny thing about this processes and Jen, you can relate to this is is that they say writing a book is like birthing a baby, right? Well, I wrote my book while pregnant and handed it to my final manuscript 10 days before my baby was born. And so I was simultaneously pregnant, writing this book,

but it's crazy because for so long I said, I would never do it. Yeah. The never was wrong, and I love contradicting myself because I'm an evolving human being. But the process in the way that the traditional world was didn't suit me. So I did it all backwards. I wrote the book, then got the agent, then got the book deal.

And I did it that way intentionally to protect my creativity and to make sure that like even if not a single person read it, it mattered to me. That's amazing. Because you know what? The process usually is you, you know, you write like a chapter and like you're what you're dreaming. Yes, and all that stuff.

And like what was, what's fearful about how you did it is in the process, usually the publisher has a million notes. I don't want it like this. I don't want it like that. Yeah. You got to switch it. Your book was done. Yeah. So did you't want it like this, I don't want it like that. We gotta switch it. Your book was done. So did you have to like, when did you change everything?

I'll just say did you get the change? Literally everything. So get this. Okay. So the book that I wrote in silence and solitude was a business book. Really? Yes.

My book, how are you really is not a business book? It's not. So I, and this is something that is not a business book. It's not. So, I, and this is something that I think a lot of women do. We are known for things, right? Like, Jen, you are known in the hall space, you are known in the wellness space, you are known for these certain things that you have done in your career. And people like to box you in as the... That's things.

...that talk about all the time. Yep. And so, I believe Miss Jenna Kutcher, host of the Gold Digger podcast, must write a business book. Thank God, my agent resonated with all of the pieces about life. And she said, this is so much more than business. And the wake-up call for me was Jenna, close your eyes and imagine your book in a Barnes & Noble. Where do you see it? And imagine your book in a Barnes & Noble. Where do you see it? Said, I don't really see it next to all the rich white guys

in the entrepreneurial space. I don't. So when I got my book to you all, it was like a conversation of like, we love what you wrote, but like, we need to broaden this. And it was a lot of work, but I don't regret the way that I did it because everything I'm folded as it should.

So I mean, it was a lot of reworking. We were able to keep a lot of what I had done, but we had to restructure a whole lot. It was like relaying the foundation. Oh my God. And like that and the stuff, like writing a whole book again. Yeah. But I loved it.

You know what's wild is like, I have loved every part of the process. The parts that people hate, like the editing process loved it. Like know what's wild is like, I have loved every part of the process. The parts of people hate like the editing process loved it. Like I've loved the way. I love it. I don't know. I just, I don't know.

It's, I loved every part of it. And I'm shocked by that. Because it feels like you too. Like I mean, just by this, like, you know, you're very good wordsmith. Like, just how you said you said like, I want to book that tells, not sells. I have a ton of these things that you say,

I'm like, that's great breakthroughs, roadblock. You've really, you have a gift of that. Thank you. Were you like that as a kid? Were you a good writer when you were younger? I was and I've written a lot in Instagram captions over the years. I saw it.

And I've had a blog and like, when I started my career a decade ago, I blogged five days a week every single day for years. Like, I don't even know what I wrote about at this point, but I still blog a lot. And so I love writing. But I, you know, book is a whole new undertaking where it's like, there's structure

and there, you know, what comes before this and there's parts and like, but if I could live a life where like, I just lived up at our cabin in Northern Minnesota and wrote books like, you can't, but why not? You can't. I know. If anyone can do it, I think it's true. I really have enjoyed the process,

but it is crazy too because I'm like, this is for someone who is in the digital world. We're used to like churning out content. We have an idea, we put it up, we publish it, we get feedback to have like a two year time span where you are just working without any feed, but you know, it's hard.

It's intimidating. Well, you're like a great content creator. I mean, like there's, I think that's, and again, like you have to figure that out. Can we talk a little bit about this? Like how did you become, I mean, like, I think that's, and again, like, you have to figure that out. Can we talk a little bit about this? Like, how did you become, like, when did you decide that you pay, your podcast is how many years now?

It's been like five or four or five? Yeah. So, when did you decide to do a podcast? Yeah. Like, why? And then how did you build it to where it is with the courses and like, again, this is not something that you knew about, right? Yeah. So, the podcast was an experiment for me.

Okay. And I actually tell the story in the book because I think a lot of times we want to have it all figured out before we begin. Yep. And we do everything but the actual work required to do the same thing. Exactly. I think it's the take about that all the time. I mean, the logo. And I guess like none of that matters. Literally None of it. Like all of the things that were tripping me up about starting a podcast have all changed over the years because none of it matters. But Kay and Dr. Perwaz, is that how you, was that your first, was that the big, you could tell you have a blog also. It was a blog first then the podcast. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You ready, you ready were tracking and having a lot of success

doing the blog, right? And your blog was really about, for people who don't know, what was your blog about that even was like the evolution to the podcast? Yeah, it started as just wedding photography about that. And then I started sharing a little bit more personal life than I started sharing more about business. But the podcast was birded out of loneliness, to be honest. We lived in a village, a village, an actual village of 3200 people, and I worked from home. I didn't know anybody,

and like entrepreneurship was freaking lonely. And every once in a while, it would be really blessed to have a conversation offline with someone who is an entrepreneur, regardless of if they were in a parallel industry or not. And I was like, man, like if I could just get people on the phone and ask them questions, maybe this would feel less isolating. And I committed to doing 10 episodes. So I was like, everything I do I look at it as an experiment, not a success or failure because I think we give like definitions in a wrong way that makes us feel like we have to succeed if it's not the right thing. It's like I'm

going to do 10 episodes and just see how it feels if I enjoy it. So I recorded the first one with iPhone headphones in my garage because my dog's bark all the time and I was so worried they'd bark. I use like my phone voice like you know the the voice. I use it when you're like, hello, this is Jenna Goodges. Yes, yes. I can't even listen back to the beginning. But what is funny and what is wild is that even to this day, most of my episodes are recorded

in a closet with boxes from our move from four years ago that we've still not emptied. I love that. And there's zero production value, but it is like all hard, it's just the message. And I think I've recognized that the mission and the message matter so much more than the method. And so often we get caught up in the method

where it's like, it needs to look good. And it's like, nobody cares, give them the content and let them consume it. And so at the beginning, my show was all interviews. I did not see the value that I brought to the table. So yes, I have been confident, but there have been so many times where I'm like, everyone else is an expert. And I'm going to let them lead. And after a while, I was like, wait, I have things to say or like, I do this differently. And

so then it just continued to grow and evolve. But to this day, I record in my pajamas, I hit record. And I mean, it is so low production value. It's incredible the success it's found. But it also reminds me to do things in the way that allow you to actually do them. Yeah, that's a really great point. So then, but you have to have things to say. So I thought it'd run out a long time ago.

I was going to say, after all these years, how are you able to have things to say. So you, you, I've had it run out a long time ago. I was going to say like it's so, after all these years, how are you able to keep it fresh? You cannot regurgitate the same stuff. Yeah. Like it's amazing. It is amazing. And it's actually funny. My brother has the best I told you so

because he told me a long time ago. I thought, I think you should do a podcast. And I was like, dude, I would run out of things to say like five episodes in and we're like 550 episodes in. You know, it's fascinating because we do a mix of research. So like I was just working on an outline for an episode about retirement and planning for retirement as an entrepreneur. So I do a lot of research.

I also just share a lot about life. And then the other thing is that the marketing world is always evolving. And I am someone who loves to like test and play and like try things. to just share a lot about life. And then the other thing is that the marketing world is always evolving. And I am someone who loves to test and play and try things. I'm not afraid to commit to things and say, I'm just gonna see what happens and then share those results with people. So I actually just have so many ideas

that sometimes my team is like, free it in. Wow. How big is your team now? He went from 10, all remote. I haven't seen them in years. Most of the mothers, we all work from home. We don't use our cell phones for work. We have very high boundaries.

And really, everyone has been with me. I mean, like, no one's left. Like, we all love each other, like family, it's kind of wild. What makes for a great vacation depends on who you ask. Are you looking to get away or bring everyone together? Do you want to get outside and play or see a play at the plate? Fortunately, however you operate, I'm the destination you've been looking for. The name's Missouri, but you can call me Mo.

And I have just one question. What's your Mo? Come see me at VisitMo.com. How did you grow? Like give us, like, some, so your podcast start to have a lot of traction. Yeah. When did you decide to start your online courses and kept on? That's how you even know how to do this, create a course. And the whole online business is very overwhelming for people. So overwhelming.

And you were saying earlier, it's about building a brand, not a business. So what was your strategy? What did you have? What was your... So, here's what I do. And I mean, it's not earth shattering, but maybe we'll be to somebody. Maybe somebody who is. So, when I decided I wanted to teach, I started doing one-on-one mentorship, and people

would come to our little apartment, and it was like photographers. So, I had popped out there like, hey, willing to do like half day mentorships is anyone interested? Well, within like an hour like 25 people had said, yes. So as doing these one-on-one sessions and recognizing that I was saying the same thing over and over and over again.

And I have been in the service of trading time for money too many times. Right. And I was like, okay, I'm literally telling these people the same exact thing every single time. How can I get this out to more people? Now I did it through nontraditional means in that this guy, I like got on a prospecting call somehow

with this guy, he had an online course. I said, I actually don't really care about your content, but if I buy it, well, you tell me how you build it. And I love being a student of like trying to reverse engineer how people got successful. Like while I am like all about like lifestyle things like I love nitigrees. Yeah, that's what I want. That's what I'm trying to get from you. I want to know exactly step by step.

So I asked him, I said, if I buy this course, it's a couple thousand dollars, it was like my first big investment in myself. Well you teach me exactly how to do it. So he's like, sure, I'll teach you. So my first course that I ever built was audio only, me sitting in my bed with a microphone, this is pre-podcast, me sitting in bed with a microphone being like, and in module one, you learn about branding. And I put together this program

and charge $2,500 had 25 people take it. So right off the bat, like matched my annual salary from my corporate days. Wow. And realized we're onto this. And in those days, I did a ton of like one-on-one calls. So every student got like personal mentoring. Like I poured into people. But then again I realized crap, I'm in the service of

trading time for money again. Yes. How do I keep shifting to get myself out of it, but to still get people results? And that's been like the decade long process. But when you think about it, there is no shortage of knowledge out there. Like think of how many podcasts and YouTube channels. I mean, you can Google anything and learn it. And so when I think about my courses, my podcasts and my free resources are the what and the why. So I'm teaching people what, whether it's marketing strategy or a tweak or a system

or an efficiency act, and the why, why is this going to matter, how is this going to affect their lives? My courses are the how. Here is the step-by-step process that you do this, and save yourself time, money, energy, and frustration. And so people can get results from the free knowledge. It's up to them to implement it. But if you're ready for the how, that's where you invest.

Well, I love you saying a bunch of stuff that I love. Like, people, was it, you you said, yeah, about information gatherers rather than intuition seekers. Yeah. You have all these amazing lines here about, like, believing your stuff. But what I was gonna even get to is, it's the implementation where people get stuck.

Absolutely. They can do all the knowledge and they can, like, they can hear every podcast, read every book and then what? The execution is not there. Well, right. And I think that oftentimes we tell ourselves, we're going to piece meal and plan together. And what happens is, is because there is so much information out there, it gets so overwhelming or it's contradictory. Or you're like, well, this person said to do this and this person said to do this. And that's where we go from being information gatherers to intuition seekers of like coming back

to yourself and saying, what is approachable to me or what resonated with me? Like I sit at tables with some of the most brilliant minds in the business world. And if I can just walk away with one actionable thing, that trip was worth it or that table was worth it. I'm not there taking 100 notes. I'm asking myself when I go to bed that night, what am I remembering?

What stood out to me? What actually was for me? Yeah. And I think a lot of times, we're the kind of people who want to sit in the front row and take every single note and write down the exact system in the set by set process. But there's a line in the book that says, like sometimes if you're not where you thought you would be, maybe the directions from someone else

are not going to get you to where you want to go. And it's like we've lost this level of discernment of like, yeah, this does fit me. Like I was telling you, I appreciate how people have teams and setups and like they have these systems around their show. For me, I know that that's not gonna work for me. Like if I'm gonna keep producing content, it's gonna be in my closet where I can waltz in

after my kids go to school or whatever that is. So, no, I think that's a really good point. I think that the distortion is super important and knowing yourself is not having that self awareness. Absolutely. To know like what works for you, what doesn't work for you. I totally, I'm in agreement with a lot of these things. I'm like, all these people have these teams,

and they have this, and they're doing that. Why am I doing it this way? It seems like, and I second-guess myself a lot of times, because they're doing it another way, and that they have success. Yes. And would you tell people your audience when that happens, when people do second guess,

or to believe in themselves, or not even believe in themselves, but have trust their gut, right? Because a lot of times we don't, and we look at someone else, and be like, well, they're doing it correctly, because they're more successful. Yes. Oh, I was so bummed when I found out

that my book was in the self-help category, because there are so many gurus out there, right? Oh, I was so bummed when I found out that my book was in the self-help category because there are so many gurus out there, right? And I say this with so much love because I could be self-proclaimed guru. And I could be seen in that light, but the book is not about, here is my step-by-step process that you must adopt. The book is about coming home to yourself to listen to your own intuition. Like there's a line that's like, it's not about coming home to yourself to listen to your own intuition. Like there's a line that's like, it's not about my answers,

it's about you finding your own and uncovering those. And so it's funny because a lot of times when we feel guilt about like, well, we're not doing things the way that other people are doing them or whatever, it's like our eyes are like lifted up on everyone else. And like we have forgotten what it feels like to just like come back home to ourselves

and be like does this work for me? Is that even what I want? Like I was just joking because I was at some of these houses and like they had like housekeepers and landscapers and all these people. And I was like I don't like anyone being in my house. Like if I want to walk around naked, I want to walk around naked.

Like and I was like good for them, but not for me. Amy Polar always says that. I love that line. And I was like, good for them, but not for me. Amy Polar, I always says that. I love that line. It's so true. Good for them, not for me. And I know that. And that's where it's like that unapologetic of like,

I'm on to something that works for me. It's a self-awareness. Do you think that's an innate thing? Can someone get better at self-awareness? Absolutely. So in my book, and the reason why we did the title, How Are You Really? It's because it's kind of that difference, Jen, when you're like, how are you good, busy, ever, you know, you get to great, whatever.

And then like your weird surface garbage. Yes, you're like with a close friend. Yeah. And like, you get past all that and you kind of like get comfortable in the conversation and you lean in and you're like, how are you really? And the whole premise of that is because I think we've gotten so far away from ourselves and our self-belief and our desires and our own definition of success. And the idea here is one, yes, getting conversations like this where we can ask each other those things, but two, getting conversation with yourself.

Yeah. And get honest with yourself. I think it's freaking scary for a lot of people. Yeah. That's really scary. Terrifying. I think it would be almost like, it'd be up there with public speaking of like being alone with yourself.

Like, how do you feel when you're alone with yourself? Right. And then what you want to do is like distract yourself and visit yourself because you don't want it. So why do we go pee with ourselves? Yes. Like we can't even sit long enough to pee. It's so true.

Is it crazy? Oh God. 100%. I mean, it's like we go from, I saw this funny meme and it was like, we go from looking at computer screens to looking at TV screens, to looking at TV screens and then we go to bed to read on screens. It's like a hundred percent, you know what I mean?

And so it's like we are so pacified that we've forgotten how to listen to ourselves. A hundred percent. And how to trust that voice. And I think it's really fascinating because we all have our intuition. And in fact, if you are a woman listening to the show, I would argue that women are far more intuitive.

And society and expectations and relationships have all causes to like turn the dial down on our own intuition and to doubt that voice. It's like we hear that inner mean girl and think like that's the voice when really like our intuition is like the whisper that we've drowned out. And so I absolutely believe that people can strengthen their ability to do that, but it's going to require learning how to be quiet with yourself and also likely unearthing answers to questions like, am I happy?

Does this feel like success? Am I where I thought I wanted to be? Do I need to change? And that stuff is scary. But I kind of like in it too, like, you know when you have something on your to-do list and it's like go to the DMV or schedule the down just point, and you dread it.

And then you finally do it, and you're like, that really wasn't so bad. Exactly. We think it's watch-horse that it is. You spend like three hours dreading the thing that's gonna take you 20 minutes. And then you're like, okay, I just wasted all that time. Absolutely.

I think we're wasting our lives by not asking ourselves those questions. We are, but at the same okay, I just wasted all that time. Absolutely. I think we're wasting our lives, but I'm not asking ourselves those questions. We are, but at the same time, I agree with you. What, it's like that hard stuff. Like once you put it out there, then you have to do something about it. Absolutely. That's the issue, right?

So sometimes easier not to... I agree with that. Right, right. I agree with you, because I, so there are three parts in the book in the last one is like what are you gonna need changes, whether it's relational, career, aspirational, success, redefinite, redefining success. But at the same time, I feel like we won't regret when we do the work. Yeah, I think that's a good point. But there's that thing between that to actually do the work, right?

And that's why people just suppress it and they're like, okay, I'll just take what's good enough because I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to have the pain of going through it instead. Do you ever find yourself, okay, let's talk about this. Do you ever find yourself where you like, maybe feeling down or frustrated or stuck, and then you like gratitude your way into just being okay

with those feelings, like where you're like, but I have so many blessings. My kids are healthy. It's called justification. Uh huh. And we do that so often. And I think part of that comes from us as human beings being so aware that there are millions

and millions of people that have it worse than us, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's beautiful. I think that awareness is beautiful. But we've started to forget that. Like, our heart is still hard. And like, I even find myself doing it when I'm like in a tough like week of motherhood and I'll like

text my best friends and I'll be like, oh man, like toddler sleep training is just like eating me a lot of them exhausted and they're like, but I'm so grateful because I have healthy kids and I'm so, you know, and it's like we had so many butts and like so many caveats and you feel thirsty. Even staying out loud. Yes, we don't feel safe anymore doing that. And we definitely don't feel safe doing that in our own lives.

And so I just think it is a fascinating time for women, but what I really believe is the answer is that a lot of us doubt our own ability to get progress. We've set out to do so many things and failed or not followed through and I think we're walking around with so much shame. Like that we didn't do what we said or we aren't where we thought we'd be. Right. And a lot of times it's because we do these extreme things. We're like, I'm gonna cut sugar for the next 30 days and like five hours in, we're done.

And we hate ourselves for it. Yes, yes, exactly. And so it's like we have to learn how to inch forward and recognize that progress and small progress is still progress. Right, right. And I look at the way that I've done things and the way that I've pivoted and the interesting thing about it, because I was really looking for

themes, like why has this worked? What is the secret sauce? And it's because I've always allowed myself to inch really slowly. Yeah. So when I started my podcast, I didn't just abandon everything that had got me to where I was. I kept doing that and let the podcast be a hobby until it became a job. And then when I decided to do the book, it became a hobby until it became a job. And I think we've just forgotten that we have this ability to get and make progress and we don't trust ourselves to do that. And so the only way to do it is slowly. Well, you know, you mentioned him in your book.

I had him on my podcast a couple times, BJ Fog and Tiny Habits. Do Tiny things. Do tiny things. Scoop-pigly, small. Microscope, exactly. Because we're in a world right now where it's all about go big or go home. And go all in, or else you won't have success and all that. And there is something to be said about just having it

like as a hobby, but people that, like it's that other voice or too much social media or all these big, hard personalities being like, no, you're not gonna be successful if you just have a side hustle. Like, but the truth of the matter is, why do people have bills to pay? They can't just quit their job and do that, right?

So I think it's like a very realistic way of going about it to becoming kind of more of the evolution, or the more self-actualized person that you wanna be. Yeah. Every single thing that I do in my life and for my work started as a side hustle. Yeah, and I wanna speak to that more because I do feel like there are these camps where it's like,

you're either a CEO or a hobbyist. Like how's your little business doing when it might actually be booming? Or you might, you know, totally. And it's fascinating to me because when we look at like the world right now and like the great resignation where people are saying like, I'm out. Like I'm not happy.

This does not feel or look like success. I'm saying no to these things. We have to start building people up to know that, like, start the hobby and maybe it turns into the passion, and the passion turns into profits, but like, you gotta just start. Yeah. And the problem.

Exactly, and I, like, I love side hustlers, because to me, I did everything. I never went into debt for my business. I like funded it very slowly, resourcefully, just like my parents. And I did it through side hustling. And so I love speaking to that because I think a lot of times we just qualify ourselves

for me been starting because we're like, I can't go all in or I can't be perfect or I can't, you know, we worry so much about like looking like a business that we aren't actually a business that makes money. Well, I also, where is your stance on like social media, right? Because it can be, it can be, I think it can be used as a great tool, but a lot of times it's not. There's a whole competition, right?

Like, if you look at everyone else's life, we're thinking that they're doing it better, or you compare yourself, so therefore that also stalls you, right? Absolutely. Because it's a time stock, right? Because you get stuck for hours that you're spending on social media, you could be spending on making a better life for yourself

by starting whatever it is, right? And what I'd like about your book, as you were saying, it's not just about how to be successful in business. It's literally about like whatever floats your boat, like it could be success in relationships or business if you want it or life or motherhood. It's because I think success is very different for everyone.

And just because you want to be a big entrepreneur, it doesn't mean that person over there wants to. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, how I feel about social media is always it's complicated. Like the Facebook Relationship Status. My goal is I want my life offline to be far more beautiful than life presented online.

Totally. Now, in alignment with that is I have always been so conscious that my Instagram and social media will not be a highlight reel. Right. Because I have met so many people I want to know, I'm sure you have as well, where their life looks perfect. Beautiful. And you meet them behind the scenes, or years later they say, hey, remember when that looked

so good, I was dying inside, or I was an anxious mess, or I was in rehab, hey, remember when that looked so good? I was dying inside or I was an anxious mess or I was in rehab or I was going through a divorce and you're like, how do I trust you now that what you're presenting is in a false reality? Yeah. It always just kind of like tweaks me a little bit where I would like so you're presenting this life and it's not what was happening. And I had a huge realization around this when we lost a really close friend to us in a car accident years ago. And I remember after he passed away looking at his social media feeds and thinking this was his legacy and he didn't even realize he was writing it. And I looked at like, what was his last post?

What was he talking about? And none of it was profound, right? Like, you don't necessarily look at that. But I committed at that time in my life, I said, I wanna look back on this and be like, this was real, it wasn't a highlight reel. This was R-E-A-L real. And I've shared about our miscarriages and body image

and motherhood struggles and entrepreneurship and the realities and all of these things. Because when I scroll back, if it is real, it was my real life in that season. And I don't ever want people to get it twisted. And I recognize that like every square, every post, every publish is a part of my legacy. It's my digital legacy. Now my book feels like a real legacy, but I don't think we realize that. Yeah. I think that's so true. And I think the majority of people, it's not reality.

No. And again, because there's like fear in that, right? And it's like everyone feels very competitive. Like, you know, you do it, you are so honest. And even with like that post, I mean, that I saw the whole body image thing in itself. Yeah. Like, it was amazing to me that there are people out there

that would say such cruel things to me. Like, these trolls, like, trolls, who are these people? Yeah. But you seem unfazed by it. Yeah. It was blessing in disguise. It's so gen-sizing about it. Yeah, it's been a talk about that, dude.

Post that went viral. And it's me and a bathing suit standing next to my husband. I was like, you're great. I agree. I thought so too. I thought, I see the first thought was like, I don't think that. Yeah, and I thought, oh my God, this is such a nice picture.

And you never would even have a curtomy. Yes. So I am a size 12, and I always just have been, and I'm a really healthy person, and I'm really invested in my health. And health is not a size. And, and by the way, I wanted to say something that's so important that I wanted to, I was screaming at the, at the post when I saw it the other

day again, because you're reposted it recently was like, first of all, like, I believe sex appeal comes from within. Yeah. It doesn't matter what you look like really on the outside. Yes. Like, if you are confident and self-assured, that is the hottest thing bar none. Amen. Right? You can be like, size zero and smoke and hot on the outside, but be a total loser in the inside. And it shows because it comes out.

Well, that's all I have to say. And my husband is ripped. And he loves health and fitness. Like he was, I was asking you earlier, I thought he's a personal trainer, I thought. Right. He loves and that is his thing. And my thing is business. I get along with her husband, great.

He really would. And it's so funny. So essentially the post was that someone had message me and said, how did a girl like you manage land a guy like him? And I said, you know, excuse me, like first stuff, we've been together for over a decade. My body has changed over a decade. I had already suffered two miscarriages. I was in the process of trying to get pregnant again. So like this

person had no idea what my body had been through. But the funny thing was that I don't usually clap back or say, you know, I don't do that ever. But in that moment, I was like, how dare you? Like we are so much more than our bodies. And like, our love is so much deeper than surface level. And what was wild is the post went viral. And there's beautiful sides of going viral and there are negative sides. And I just have embraced the beautiful sides of it. So brought a lot of people into our world. And a lot of people felt less alone from feeling that way because you know, a lot of my body insecurity comes from being married to a man who is so fit. But I've learned that like that is his passion and his purpose and mine looks different. And if I am prioritizing

and working on healing my relationship with food or you know, moving my body now, not out of punishment and like things like that. like that is the most healthy way that I can start to operate. And so it is funny. And you know it's wild is that when I was writing, I wasn't going to put anything in the book about bodies. But I've really learned that the way that we feel about our bodies impacts how we show up on a visceral level. That's true. Part of the reason why I never loved doing video is because I didn't like the way I looked on video.

And I felt like the camera had 10 pounds and like all of those things and I never wanted to have to read YouTube comments about what I looked like. And so I would record in my closet with no video on. And I didn't want to speak on stages. And I didn't, you know, there are definitely, you know, I'm a confident person, but there are definitely

insecurities around my body. And have you ever looked at a picture of yourself from like five years ago? And you're like, why did I not see how freaking gorgeous I was? Why did I not walk around making more like you know what I mean? Well, I actually am hard. I'm very critical on myself, but no.

But I always see the imperfection. I'm learning to get better with that. Yes. But I do feel like I'm very naturally confident. Yes. I don't think how I look or don't look makes a difference on. Well, I hate my nose, for example.

I always hated it. I would have never noticed your nose in a million years. Oh, well, thank you. But I, I do. And like, so like, what, why I'm bringing this up is it never stopped me from getting anything I wanted in my right? Like, yes, because it didn't, it didn't represent who I am as a whole. It just says something I don't really love that much, right? But I had, I did a TED talk and it went viral. Millions and millions of people are like, thousands of comments, 100,000 comments, I say. And let's say out of like 2,000 comments I read,

one comment is, I hate our nose, or she's got a big nose. And that's the one that like stings, right? We remember those for me. We made them, right. It's almost like we're scrolling through the positivity to see find the negative. What is wrong with us?

That's what my facts are. That's why I'm bringing it up. Like you could have accolades up the, you know, ying ying, but that one thing that you're sensitive, if you are sensitive about that, it stings. And you feel it and that's, and why I'm even bringing this up is like you didn't, even though you were saying you had these body image issues prior, when you kind of,

I feel like, embrace it. Yeah, you embraced it. It's part of my superpower in that. The more that I've shared about the things I struggle with or feel vulnerable or want to hide, the more that I realize those are liberating, but those are the things that connect me to others. 100%.

That's exactly what it is. And it makes you feel like a normal person. And I feel like we are all walking around or scrolling with our thumbs, trying to feel more enough and less alone. And it's like, if I, like the things, it's kind of like Jen, like, when you call out the things

that you're worried someone will call out, like when you're like, hey, I know my nose is big. It's like a protective mechanism. 100%. So that I am aware of this. So you can't say it to hurt me. You can't weaponize it against me.

Exactly. And so it can come from that place, but it's fascinating because it also helps us to really connect with people. And in sharing those things, it just really helps people to understand that like, I am a human being.

I get ingrown hairs. I pluck chin hairs. You know, like we all do. It's like those old magazines where it's like celebrities. They're just like us. They come scarce and stuff. It's like, well, no kidding.

We're all human. 100%. But you people forget that, right? And so with social media being something that obviously has been like a big platform for you, what do you, has it not ever, you don't play that game, that whole competitive game, or this person's doing this? So what do you tell other people, your listeners,

when they say, well, you know, so and so, what kind of advice do you give them? Show up in any way that you can show up. And just don't, don't play that game. It looks different in every season. And so here's a good challenge. Maybe this will be a good tactical thing. So I challenge myself to show 60 seconds of my life a day.

That's it, 60 seconds. That's four Instagram stories if you do the math. Wow, yeah. And so if I can let people into just one minute of my day, whether I'm in sweatpants or spit up or the baby's crying, like just letting people into one minute of your day is a beautiful place to start,

just feeling comfortable, but also connecting. And so that's like always my challenge. It's like how can I just let people in just one minute of my day? It's like less than one percent of my life. Right, right. But it still is me just showing up. And it's challenged me to not just show up

when I'm camera ready or have a make up on, but it just show my life. The other piece of that too is that there are different seasons where things make sense. And I have learned to just approach things in a way that offers myself grace when I'm inspired, share, when I'm not inspired, don't apologize.

It's like when people take a week off of social media and they come back on and they're like, I'm so sorry, I took a week off, I'm like, nobody noticed. Yeah, well that's a big thing. I took a week off. I'm like, nobody noticed. Yeah, well that's the thing. Nobody cared. Don't apologize. You were looking your life.

A hundred percent. People, I think also always think that other people are paying attention to them. Nobody's making things. Nobody cares. They're too willing to be refreshing. They're your feed. Yeah.

Like, I don't even think people, like when you do a story or whatever, or whenever I go through the stories, I don't know what they're even posting. People are just, I think it's become so autopilot. People don't even know what you're doing. If it's you, if it's not you, if it's this person, that person,

it's become such a, I don't know. I think it's overtaking people's life to set a terrible place. I guess this is my, how do you make it not become your life? How do you not get like, you know, a part of thrown into those to that, to that trap? That is a trap because that's virtually how you make your money

in a way to online. You know. So I have this role where I never post in real time. What I mean by that is like, have you ever been out of like a beautiful dinner and you look around and everyone's on their phone? Always. You're at a concert and everyone's on their phone like posting the story of a moment that they thought was so important they should capture but now they're missing it. Yeah.

Because they're you know and so I have this rule where it's like capture whatever you want to capture and set your phone aside. Yeah. And come back to it. Does it still feel like you need to share it? Does it still feel important? Does it matter to anyone but you? Yeah. How are you inviting people into the moment? So like I always have to take space from photos. Like I only shoot photos on my camera.

In that I have to intentionally sit down, pull it onto my computer, look at it, think about it. Is it worth sharing? Do people care? Does that help connect me to anyone? The answer's no, I'm not gonna share it. And so I think that we've forgotten like the power of the pause.

Yeah, just pause for a minute. Take some space. And so it's like we're so immediate, like if I don't post, it didn't happen. And it's like, that's not healthy and it's not helping. Absolutely. What would you say is the most popular type of podcast that you do or that people want information from?

Is it mostly about personal? Is it personal? It shocks me every time. Is it relationship or just people are curious about the people behind the things. And I always avoid it when my team is like, or just people are curious about the people behind the things. And I always avoid it when my team is like, yeah, you should do like a ask-gen of anything.

I'm like, I am so boring. Why would anyone care? And they all care. They all care. I mean, like I do interviews with like my mom or things. I mean, they outperform some of the celebrities I talk to because it's like, people just want to know the person. Yeah.

And so it's fascinating. Sorry, I know you're good. You're good. It's a good reminder for us that like people care about you. Yeah. And a lot of times it's easy for us to be like, no, they don't, but like they do. Yeah. No, I agree.

I think that sometimes people overestimate like for this, anyway, I've had a lot of celebrities and they never, like a lot of times they don't do is what you think that because they have a big name, the people care about them. Oh, they don't, because it's just another interview for them. Exactly. Where is the people who see it as like a true honor?

They're gonna go out and shout it from the rooftops. Well, 100% and it's also, again, it's all comes back to authenticity, right? Absolutely. This is a real conversation you and I are having. You know what I mean? I think that that type of thing resonates much better than these cookie cutter answer, response, questions, things like no one cares.

Yeah, and then you and I were like connecting via text of like, I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know, I know I had kids and living in the northern part of the country. And like, you know, it's a real person. Yes. And so, yeah, it is, it's a great reminder, no matter where you are, what you want to do, people are curious about you.

And they want more of you. Yeah. I think that's, I'm going to add up, I think that's awesome and true. I know we've got to wrap it up, but I think you have like another, you're doing like 100 of these. But I have to ask you about, of course, finding goal setting and all that stuff. That's what you, that's your podcast,

that's what you talk about a lot, book a lot, not a lot, but it's a piece of it. What's the difference between goal, get like goal setting really and like goal getting? There's a big difference. There's a line in my book where it's like, I am the host of the goal digger podcast and why I love that people are digging goals. They're not going and getting them. And one of the biggest themes in my book and one of the reasons why I feel like it is the perfect

book for right now is because I feel like we are in two camps as women entrepreneurs. There's the manifestation side, the woo side, and then there's the hustle side, the work side. And I feel like women in this polarizing world we live in feel like they have to choose one or the other. And I truly believe that there's magic where like the woo meets the work. You can hold the visions, you can have the visualizations, you can have those beliefs and those things that you are working on in the mantras, but you also have to be willing to do the work to get there. And how do we do this in a sustainable, approachable way that feels like success?

It doesn't just look like success. And so the difference between goal digging and goal getting is those impossibly small BJ fog movements, those inch by inch progress is progress, slow growth is deep roots moments where we're like, I am just going to lace up the sneakers today. Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't mean to, I was going to say something about that because the woo, it's fine because I, that's a big conversation we have a lot because this is much more about not the woo woo, right?

Absolutely. And then there are other people like, you know, people are like, yeah, she's not, this one's very woo woo, she's not very woo woo whatever. Yes. And it's because I don't think I'm a woo woo person. Yeah. And it's been hard for me because it's hard for me

to connect with people who are about law, the traction and manifesting. Are you a believer in those things though? So I had a really amazing guest, Dr. Tara Swart on my podcast. And I was like, no, no, no. Right. Oh, I should connect you to her. She's amazing.

And I was like, break down. So she is a doctor. She studied neuroscience. I would love that. And it was about like, des Visualization work, does manifestation work? And she said, like, the only reason it works is because you are awake to the vision. And if you keep that vision close, it's like if you're on the market to buy

a new car and all of a sudden you're paying attention to cars. You've been driving by them for months, but you didn't see them until you were really looking. Yeah. Yeah. And so manifestation absolutely can work in the way that you are awake to what you want. And you're paying attention and noticing more. So you are going to see what you're looking out to find. And so I just believe like I have the power of having visions and like not just like a vision of like I'm on a beach somewhere like but like I visualize my life with like my daughter when we were struggling with our fertility journey. And then I was willing to do the work that it took to like heal my and figure out how is this gonna happen. So it's like where the woo meets the work.

I love that, but the visualization is one thing. I think that you have to have the picture in your head of what you want. I guess, I guess it becomes, that's why I love when you say that, the woo and the work, it's another great way of your wording. Because if it's too woo-woo, then there's no implementation.

You lose people. And there's no implementation. It's very hard to kind of grasp and understand. Yeah, I like that woman. Would you hook me up to that lady? Yeah, oh, absolutely. Her episode was one of my favorite episodes ever because she was just, I mean, one, it was very scientific

which I love. So I'm like, tell me how this actually works. Exactly. But then two, she gave you steps of like, yeah, works, but here's why, because you're seeing this. Like if you had your screensaver on your phone, be your vision board, you will be reminded every time you pick up your phone,

is this aligned with the vision, right? Exactly. You're gonna check yourself before you wreck yourself. Again, this is where you, you should be doing this all day. This is why you're a great content creator. You have so many, these great one-liners. You should be a copywriter. Is that your next thing? I mean, I like writing copy. I write a lot of my own stuff. Do you write all your own copy? Not all of it, but a lot of it. Because these little, these little one- The whole book is like that though. Yeah, yeah.

It's a great name down. Yeah, what was the other one? I was like, it was all of them. They're so good. Oh, I have to ask you this, it's so important, and then we can wrap about building a community. I think that's really important that we didn't really get to

because that is really how you kind of thrive. People need teams of people. It's not just one person, right? Yeah. How do you really build an authentic community for people who really are struggling and who really want to thrive and be successful in whatever walk of life they want to do? Focus on serving and not selling. And I think a lot of times as entrepreneurs and people that do have products or brands or things like that, we get so fixated on the sale, but we forget to do the service.

And 90% of the time, I am just straight up serving. And I just believe that if I can get people results without them spending a penny, when they have the penny, they'll come back and invest. And I wanna get people results for free so that they're able to make those investments and feel confident in betting on themselves. And so we're so fixated on more, but serve the people that are there.

And if you look, if you were to scroll all the way back in my feed, I was talking about all of this when nobody was there, when I got 12 Facebook likes or whatever, you know. And so it's like use the megaphone, whether it's to the people in your church or the kids at your feet or the family members and start sharing that mission now because that mission will become your message and you will be able to follow through in a way that actually makes an impact. That's amazing. Are you in a mastermind or anything like that?

Not anymore. I don't have time. Yeah, I'm just going to say, do you have a Bible? I love meeting you in person. Oh, yes. Thank you so much for having me, Jen. No, it was honestly a pleasure. And when did your book actually come up?

What's the date? June 28th. Oh, June 28th. Oh, wow. So we have a little bit of time. How are you really? I love that title, leave it in. Thank you so much.

You can grab it at howareoereallybook.com or anywhere books are sold. Oh, you're just the best. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Of course. Come back. Please next time we hear.

I will. I will. Okay. And I need to have you on my show. I guess when I have my, well, my book comes out in December. Are we? Perfect. Bye. Bye. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network.

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