Habits and Hustle - Episode 179: Vanessa Van Edwards – Behavioral Investigator, Founder of Science of People, Best-Selling Author

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

Pre-order Jen’s New Book: Bigger, Better, Bolder today: https://amzn.to/3hvtqYp Vanessa Van Edwards is a behavioral investigator, founder of the Science of People, and a best-selling author. She explains her research and findings for everything from what your Zoom background should be, to how high you should speak. Jen and Vanessa talk about comfort zones, handshakes, TED Talks, Shark Tank, and more as Vanessa breaks down the subtle vocal and gestural habits we all have that either guide us to or shield us from success. Never know what to do with your hands? Terrible at meeting new people? Always in your head about every single interaction you have throughout your day? Vanessa’s sure to have some insight that you may find quite revealing. Vanessa’s Website – https://www.scienceofpeople.com/ Vanessa’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/vvanedwards/ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail] 📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins, you're listening to Habitson Hussle, fresh it. Guys, I'm so excited about this podcast. Today we had Vanessa Van Edwards, who I'm a huge fan of. Vanessa, I've been watching Vanessa's videos on YouTube forever.

She is a behavioral investigator and she started a company called The Science of People. She's also a major best-selling author. Her first book is called Captivate, The Science of Sexteen with People. She's also a body language trainer and she specializes in science-based people skills. Her latest book is called Q's, which was amazing. And it is for anybody and everyone who wants to either read other people or really activate their strengths and make sure they're bringing them forward. She talks about what makes somebody charismatic, what makes somebody likeable, how you win over anybody or influence somebody, just by how you move, what you say, like how you

say it. It's just I can go on a non, but I don't want to, I'm basically like butchering this. But trust me, listen to the podcast, you're going to get so much out of it. Enjoy. On today's episode, we have Vanessa Van Edwards who I was, I am like just like, just smiling from like, I'm gritting from year to ear because you guys, I have been waiting for this interview for months. Her information is so amazing. She wrote a book called Q's. Her other book was called Captivate. They're like the seawards. Yeah, you really do. Confidence, charisma, Q's, captivate. Why is that? I don't know. Just such a good, such good words.

They are good words. And you can talk, we can talk all about that. Oh yeah. Because you're like, she is an expert on body language, on communication. And this new book is called Master the Secret Language of Charismatic Communication. She talks all about signals and how to have the most impact in meetings and first impressions.

It doesn't matter if you're just someone who's dating or if you are someone who is a professional, you can literally glean anything and everything from your work. So, oh my goodness, I'm so happy with you. I've been waiting for months too. So, I can't wait. I can't wait, you're just saying that.

I cleared my day, it's Jennifer Day. You guys, look how good you wait. You're just saying that. I cleared my day. It was like it's Jennifer Day. You guys. You guys. Look how good you are. Look how good you are. This is my day. See, you know how to make a great first impression. I bet I wrote a book about it.

More than one book, and you crush these books, crush. Thank you. No, like I said, practical information. I think that what's really helpful is a lot of the communication books. I'm an awkward person, right? Like I'm somewhere in between Introvert and Extravert, I'm an Ambervert. And so many of the books that I read

growing up or guides I saw were written by extroverts. And I just felt so like I had to pretend to be outgoing to be a good first impression. And so for so long I felt like I was faking it till I made it, make it, make it, made it, made it, was faking it till I made it, make it, make it. Made it. Made it. I didn't make it.

So fake it till you made it. Fake it till I almost made it. Yeah. I was like pretending to be something I wasn't. And it was exhausting. And so I so appreciate you saying that about the books because the books are the guides that I wish I had had. Very practical, a little funny.

Like sometimes I try a few jokes on there. And also like, what's the science say? Like not someone's opinion, but what's the science actually say? I should say, so what Finesse's title is, it's called the behavioral investigator. There you go. And she just studies people's behavior

and also helps people with how to cue better to get what they want, right? Yes. And I heard on a couple interviews, you were kind of nervous about even putting the book out because it could be used as manipulation. Yes. So like, there's this hidden language that's happening. We don't realize it's happening,

but we are constantly sending signals back and forth. And so as I realized, I have a very weird problem where I misinterpret neutral cues as negative. And there's actually research behind this that some say that if you're neurotic I'm high in neuroticism, which is one of the biopersonality traits. So I worry as a hobby, you know like I'm it's like one of my sports. So like I'd love to worry. And so because of that I have this length, this negative lens It I was missing all these cues. And so when I first shared a writing about them It was just let me catalog the cues

that are being sent to me. So I stopped misinterpreting them. So I stopped every time I would leave a party, I would turn to my husband and be like, she's mad at me. And be like, what? I'm like, she's so mad at me. He's like, no, she's not mad at you.

I'm like, did you see the way that she looked at me? He's like, no. And so I realized I had to create some sort of a glossary for myself to stop seeing people in that way. The problem is other people will use that, that information negatively. And so I was so scared that when I put the book out, the people would say, oh, I'm going to manipulate people with these cues. And unfortunately, they are very powerful.

Like they can be used now. Yeah. And that made me very nervous, but I thought, you know what, I'd rather have the information out there to be used for good. Hopefully then we can have a common language where we can say, that's the cue that you're sending, and I either like it or I don't. Well, think about like Robert Green's 40,000 as a power, right? It can kind of be considered the same kind of thing, right? Like how to get power over

people. There could be a negative connotation to it, but I actually think, you know, and I'm close friends with Robert and I love that book. It was, it's a, it's a huge, to monster book, right? Yes. And it could be used for good and for bad, right? Okay, fun fact. This is a really creepy weird fact.

Okay. But, you know, the classic book, how to win friends and influence people, Dale Carnegie. Dale Carnegie. So, that book has helped millions of people. People still read it. I read it when I was a teenager.

Yeah. Well, fun fact is that Charles Manson read that book in prison and used it to build his cult later. No way. And one of his early prison stents before he did the really bad stuff because he did little bad stuff. He read that book and he took a class that was being offered in prisons on the deal-carny method for how to win rent and social people and that is exactly what he used to build his cult later.

So these things really, if you know how people work and that's really what it is, is there's these hidden dynamics of people. And there are laws, right? There's 48 laws of power. There are 96 behavior cues. If you learn what they are, you can use them in any way that you wish. Absolutely. And that's why I'm fascinated by all this information of it so much. I'm fascinated by human behavior in general, why people do what they do,

and also why I'm doing, how I'm doing, and how it could be misinterpreted. And a lot of times I'm misinterpreted, right? So that's why for my found that book, this book, to your point, very resonated because people can think I'm being a bitchy I'm being hard, I'm being cold, I'm being this, but it's just like what I'm doing.

It's cute. So it's interesting. So I have the problem where I think I'm misinterpreted,interpret cues being sent to me. Do you worry that people misinterpret the cues you are sending to them? I don't worry about it. I just think, I don't really care that much about you.

But I don't care if people think that. I don't care if people think, I don't really care. I'm just being honest for you. That's the truth. I think that's a whole other problem. Maybe I'm a sociopath, no. That's not really what it is.

I feel like I'm sometimes very direct and very to the point. And I don't like to mince a lot of words a lot of times. And that can be sometimes seen as too direct. So the way that we break it down, which is like, I think this is the most important thing, which you know I love, is we think of people as two basic traits, warm and competent. And so if you're direct, if you speak right to the point,

if you have really direct, nonverbal cues, so lots of eye contact, lots of head movement, very clear gestures, people see you as highly competent, that's great. The problem is, is competence without warmth leaves people feeling suspicious or leaves people feeling intimidated. That is directly from the research. The people who are off the charts and competence, people go, ah, there's enough warmth. I don't know if they like me. I don't know if they're friendly.

And so without warmth, people don't always believe you're competent, but they can't digest your competence. And so you're right in that sense of like, am I being too direct? Is that going to turn someone off? It's simply because you're just lacking that sense of like, am I being too direct? Is that gonna turn someone off? It's simply because you're just lacking the warmth, it's like a lubricant. That warmth lubricant is a lubricant for competence. Well, that's interesting because,

and not to make, this is not about me, this isn't what it would be all about. Oh, but let's make it about you. No, it's not about me, because I mean, the other thing a lot of times, and I think, I wanna first talk about, I'll bring this up in a second, I'm gonna hold my thought. I want you to first talk about charisma. Because charisma is a

combination, right? Of you said, warmth and confidence and having that perfect blend. Perfect blend. And so 82% and that is a massive number. 82% of our judgments of people are based on those two traits, which is shocking to me because when you ask, and I've asked audiences, how do you want to come across? Name your perfect first impression, hundreds of words, outgoing, funny, smart, witty, impressive, memorable. All the words you could think of, but actually,

when it comes down to it, the only two words that make up 82% of our judgments are warmth, friendliness, like ability, openness, and competence, capable, powerful, efficient. In that way, when we meet someone, we are very quickly trying to answer two questions. And in your interactions, if you can quickly answer these two questions, your whole interaction will be better.

Doesn't matter if it's a date or negotiation interview, which is, can I trust you and can I rely on you? And we are looking to people to see, can I trust you and can I rely on you? And that's looking to people to see, can I trust you and can I rely on you? And that's when we have a good date. That's when we have a good interview. That's when we want to work with someone or be friends with them or talk to someone. That's what we're looking for is just the answer to those two questions. So what happens if you have too much warmth and not enough confidence? Yes, love it. So let's talk about

the two imbalances, right? So the reason why charismatic people are so magnetic that we're like Drawn to them is because they have the perfect balance the moment we get out of balance out of whack Like let's say you said too high and warmth. Okay, people who are sending lots of warmth cues They're seen as friendly, trustworthy, likable, compassionate, but not that smart Not that capable. Mm-hmm. How that powerful. They're often interrupted. So highly warm people have this problem where people always come to them for their life, for like advice and their life story. Like highly warm people are constantly sitting in the corner of the room and someone's like verbal vomiting all over them.

That is a highly warm person because they are sending off signals of open to me, open up to me, tell me everything. So people constantly seek them out and verbal vomit all over them, but don't take them seriously. Forget having met them before, forget their names. So highly worn people are super liked in the office, but when they want to get a razor promotion, they're looked over. Wow. Highly worn people are, yes, she's nice, but they wouldn't have you on their team. They wouldn't buy from you. They wouldn't come to you for really important advice. Highly-worn people also struggle with being people pleasers. And that's because highly-worn people, the reason they're sending those cues, like from a psychological perspective, is there's two desires

that we have as humans to be liked and to be respected. People who are highly-worm have been taught whether that's socially or from their parents that being liked is more important than being respected. And so what can happen is they say yes too much, they over commit. And so people, highly warm people, I always joke that if you have a highly warm friend, you have a highly warm friend, if they always say yes, then cancel the last minute.

That's actually me. And that is because highly warm people in the moment, they wanna please you. They really want you to like them. They wanna seem open and likable. So of course, and in the moment, they mean it. But then real life hits third time, and they're like, I can't do it.

I gotta stay home and want enough. Like I cannot put on a pair of pants. There's no way that's gonna happen. Exactly. So that's highly warm, right? Superpowers, they have superpowers. Collaboration, being supporters, being open, being liked. Their weaknesses, they're not taken seriously,

they're overlooked, they're underestimated, they're doubt they're dismissed. That's their problem. Highly competent folks, the other hand, highly competent folks are always seen as impressive, they're seen as smart, they're seen as powerful. But what can happen is because they're constantly sending out competence cues, people think, ooh, she's intimidating. I can't open up to her. She's cold. And so this is what the research shows is that competence without warmth leaves us feeling suspicious. Now, I guess my question is, can you be one in certain environments and another in another environment? So this is the advanced, right? So actually very highly charismatic people use their warmth

and competence like a thermostat or like a dial. So when they're around really warm people, they dial up their warmth cues. Right? They send a couple more warmth cues. When they're at happy hours and they're socializing, when they're schmuzis, when they're with a VIP that like, oh, this would be a VIP, I'm going to be a little warmer with them. I want to get into their,

and get into their good side, they dial up warmth. They also oftentimes we default to higher and warmth around our families, around our friends. Maybe we dial up a little bit in competence and business situations. So yes, that's actually, that's where the magic is. Is that not only can we be different

in different situations, that we can actually control it. And that's my other favorite seaweed. I love control. Control. Oh man my other favorite seaweed. I love control. Control. Oh, man. Boy, boy, do I love control. So as a social warrior, I socially overthink. I lay in bed at the end of the day

and I don't know, or replay every conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. What the antidote to that for me has been control. So what happened is in my anxiety, my awkwardness, I would, what should I do with my hands? What cues should I send?

How will they take me seriously? And then I would replay. Now, I have 96 cues to choose from. So I know exactly what should I do with my hands? What cues should I send? How will they take me seriously? And then I would replay. Now I have 96 cues to choose from. So I know exactly what cues I want to send. I know exactly what cues are being sent to me. And so the way that we can take controls, we say, okay, in this situation, I want warmth. I'm dialing up the warmth. In this situation, I'm going to hit them with competence. Or I know why they see me as cold and I'm okay with it. Right. That's what I like about this book and your content is because you don't have to be a naturally, emotionally, highly intelligent person to get these things.

So I was going to say to you, I think that there are people who are naturally more gifted and others in picking up these social cues. Yes. And to be like, okay, I got to dial, I got to dial in that warmth. I got to like take it back a bit. But the majority of people do need help in these sorts because they walk away kind of like, well, why did that interview go badly or why did that date go badly? Why did I get a no?

Why did I get a no, right? And so if you have the tools and the information to understand more, it is so powerful. Oh my gosh, it's so empowering. Empower, exactly. Empower. And I also like what we don't realize, and this is what gets me excited about this one, is our cues are contagious.

So it's not just you being in control of your cues. Let's you show up how you want to show up. That's one part of the equation. Yeah. The second more exciting part of the equation for me is if you show up how you want to show up. That's one part of the equation. Yeah. The second more exciting part of the equation for me is if you show up more warm and more competent, you trigger other people's warmth and competence. So if I'm with my team, if I'm with my family,

if I'm with my friends, and I'm showcasing very purposefully in control warmth and competence, they are catching that warmth and competence. But if we show up as our most charismatic self, that is the single best way to make everyone around us be their most charismatic self. And also to add on to that, so in order to be successful,

to be successful, it's not about being the most competent or being the most, it's about really having that real perfect blend. So, if you don't have to be the smartest, you just have to have enough charisma or have the blend of charisma to get your goal done. Exactly. And also, there's one last area that we haven't talked about, which is, you mentioned smart people, being the smartest person. This is the problem I think that smart people make.

Smart people are smart. They rely on their really good ideas. And I think I have a great idea. I'm really smart. That's enough. And so they show up to pitches. They show up to meetings and they're like, why aren't people getting my ideas? And again, the research proves you could have the smartest idea in the world. But if you're not lubricating it with warmth, people cannot believe it. So what will happen is smart people, they double down on competence and that doesn't work and they wonder what is happening. So then they go sterile.

And that's the last area that we are trying to fight against. There's a lot of really powerful smart people don't know what to do with their cues. So they under cue. They under signal. So you'll notice it now, especially in the last five years, it feels like people have decided stoic is good. Being unreadable is good. Well, I don't know what cues to say. I don't know how to be warm comments. So I'm going to send no cues at all. And so what's happening is we're getting on video calls, we're watching presentations with people

who are like robots. They have, they're trying to conceal their facial expressions or trying to conceal their body. They try to be as unreadable as possible. The problem is muting, going mute, is in itself a cue. Right. So if you go mute, you actually look a lot like a liar. Liars often go mute because they're trying to not give away the truth.

And so what's happening is this muting, this under signaling is actually backfiring to healthy smart people. So then that's a great segue into how to cue properly, right? So keep coming back, you got plenty of space. Oof, not how you would have done that. You like working with people you can rely on, like USAA, who has helped guide the military community

for the past 100 years. USAA, get a quote today. Vitamin water just dropped a new zero sugar flavor called with love. Get the taste of raspberry and dark chocolate for the all warm. All fuzzy, all self-care, zero self-doubt you. Grab a with love today vitamin water zero sugar nourish every you vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass oh now I feel everybody's on zoom more than ever right these video calls or emailing

they're not really so can you give some good tips and good cues? How to be, how to kind of rock the video conference? And Matt, your cues on video call matter more than ever because actually other things are taken away. And I was very fortunate with the timing. So I signed the book deal for cues in June of 2020. And I was writing cues all through 2020, 2021. So I was hyper aware of video. If it had only been a few months earlier I think I would have been less aware of video. So a lot of the research we did for cues was on video because we couldn't do it in person Right. So for example, I'll give you one example. So I partnered with Dr. Paul Zach Dr. Paul Zach is an incredible researcher. He's kind of the oxytocin guy if you've ever heard of

oxytocin the chemical If you've ever heard of oxytocin, the chemical of connection, the chemical of love, he's the guy who's been researching it for the last 23 or a while. Oh, yeah. He's the one who kind of discovered that you can bottle oxytocin and you can give people nose sprays full of oxytocin. Did you wear a necklace or something that was an oxytocin necklace?

Yeah, I did. I have an oxytocin necklace. Can you wear it, you buy them? Etsy. Etsy. Is it a real thing? Yes, I got a goldxytocinaclust. Yeah, I have an noxytocinaclust. Can you, where do you buy them? Etsy. Etsy. Is it a real thing? Yes, I got a gold oxytocinaclust and I wear it instead of a heart. Because, you know, we're talking about real connection in noxytocinaclust.

Yeah. Not a heart. Yes, I wear it. Oh, because I was wearing a ton. How does it work? So, the way that oxytocinaclust works, it does a lot of things in our body. So, remember that. But if you wear it, you know, like, how does that work?

Well, I wish it, I wish it actually triggered oxytocin, but when you look at it, it makes me feel good. Oh, okay. Actually, the only way that we produce oxytocin is eye contact, touch and meet you moments. Like moments where we're like, oh, meet you. That makes us feel that warm and fuzzy, like belonging. And connect and like-

And like, oh, I trust this person. I'm on the same page with this person. Like, that's why we're always like always like oh where'd you go to school? Who do you know because the moment you have a tie you're like oxytocin? Dopamine is that like a dopamine hit so dopamine so oxytocin is a chemical of connection It makes us feel trusting it makes us feel the warm and fuzzies Dopamine is the chemical of excitement and motivation Dopamine makes us want to do things so So dopamine is like, I have a present for you.

That's dopamine. Oxytocin is me too. Like slightly different. So dopamine is like a motivating chemical. It makes you want to do it, makes you want to achieve. It makes you want to succeed. Dopamine helps beat burnout. Oxytocin helps build rapport.

Right, they're slightly different, right? Okay. So I partnered with Dr. Paul Sack, I've been friends with for years. And I said to him, The Toaston helps build rapport. Right, they're slightly different, right? Okay. So, I partnered with Dr. Paul Sack, I've been friends with for years, and I said to him, I'm worried, I'm literally writing the book on cues, and there's a whole cue on touch.

And I'm like, Dr. Sack, like, what are we gonna do? In a world without touch, where we're on a video call, there's no handshake, there's no cheek kiss, like there's no oxytocin creators. Report, bills, yeah. And oxytocin is created by touch primarily. So, cheek kiss, like there's no, there's no oxytocin creators. Report our bills. Yes. And oxytocin is created by touch primarily. So he said, let's touch you. And I feel oxytocin with you.

Well, we are making eye contact. We have lots of meetings. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So it's not the only way. But it's the primary way. It's the fastest way. That is why we're so inclined upon first meaning

to handshake or high five or cheek kisses because we want to seal the deal kind of chemically. So I asked him what do we do? Like we're in this environment. He said I said to him I have a theory that if you use oxytocin words it could kind of replace the level of engagement. So if I were to get on video and say sending a high five level of engagement. So if I were to get on video and say sending a high five, sending a virtual cheek kiss, would it do anything? So we did a little experiment where we had, he has this amazing technology on smartwatches where he measures your skin conductance and like your physiology to see if you're actually like being turned on, not sexually but just physiologically. Okay. It's on a smart watch on your wrist, yeah. I had to clarify that. And so what he did is we

had a bunch of people in put on the software on their smart watch and watch two different videos. One video we used oxytocin words. I would you know, I can see you that's not just word, sending a virtual high five, sending a virtual hug, which I could handshake you and the other one was just positive neutral. So hey, so happy to be here. So glad we could do this. Great to be here. So glad we could do this. Great to get together. We found that the, when we used the oxytocin words, it had double the engagement, double, meaning even saying, sending a virtual high five actually triggered a physiology like having an actual high five. Wow. So very first thing is on your first 10 words of video call, you should be using oxytocin words. It's so good to see you. Oh, I wish I could give you

a hug sending a hug from here. Hey, virtual high five. If that feels natural to you, that's a really easy way to produce oxytocin. If that doesn't feel natural to you, you want to do the next few warmth cues. So one is making sure that you're not too close to the camera. That's like the biggest mistake that we make in virtual calls. So in interpersonal reaction, interactions, there's four space zones. And these are incredibly important for gauging intimacy. So we're very aware of these, like even our distance of our chairs right now, I would say what we're about three feet away.

Probably. Yeah, around three feet. That's like the ideal for an interview, because it means we're close enough where we can make eye contact. I can see all your facial expressions. If we want to reach out right now and just see if you can touch my fingers, we can. That's the ideal. We want to be able to just close enough where if we wanted to touch, we could. And we judge that for intimacy.

The problem is on video calls, all the space goes away, right? Because there's no actual people. So what happens is you will get really close to their camera and we accidentally go into the intimate zone, which is zero to eight inches away. Yeah, to tell us what the fork, you just didn't book to this one. Yes, so the four zones are the public zone,

which is about over seven feet away. That's like, I don't know you, I can wave to you, but I couldn't talk to you. Then is the social zone five to seven feet away? That's like, I can see you. I know you. I feel safe around you. We're not going to have in-depth conversation, but I could be like, how are you? Right.

Good to see you. Then there's my favorite zone, which is the personal zone, which is right here, which is about three to five feet away. Eight inches to five feet away, depending on what culture you're in. And that's a great zone because we can touch if we want to. I can see your facial expressions, and it's still comfortable. Zero to eight inches away is the intimate zone. We only like people in our intimate zone if we want to be intimate with them.

So we briefly enter it for a hug and then immediately back up. If we're about to kiss someone, we're usually in the intimate zone, right? If we're really feeling close to someone we're in the intimate zone. So we reserve that for people that we feel very, very close to.

One video call, if you are less than 18 inches away, if you measure the distance from your nose and your camera and you're less 18 inches away, you are accidentally going into people's into my zones, which is triggering too much. Right. You know if it's a computer or that's not new. There's an instinct, and this is why like if people

are like really close to their camera, you're like, whoa, whoa, back up. It's a digital close talker. Like it's still the same along. Still the same along. Yes, what I don't understand, and that makes sense. That's really great. Those are great tips for people because doing Zoom now.

And by the way, measure. Just take a measuring tape and measure the distance between your nose and your camera. And your camera. Yeah, that's it. What I was going to say is how about in terms of the lighting all that that doesn't matter, right? People are not like is that I do the depth. No, I do think it matters Okay, I would even say like you're lighting and your background really matters Okay, so there's four different ways we send cues. There's non-verbal

So our body language our facial expressions are voice tone. That's about 60 to 90% of our communication It's the biggest. So our hand gestures, our smiling eye contact, those all matter. Next is verbal. So the words we use. So saying, it's good to see you, handshake. I wish I can give you a high five. Exactly.

Third is vocal. How you say your words. And we can talk about that in a second. It's a huge, important part of video calls. The last one is imagery. Imagery. What's in your background? part of video calls. The last one is imagery. Imagery. What's in your background? The colors you wear, the props you hold.

So for example, there's a research that looked at the background, and they said by far, having a real background is better than having a virtual background. And that is because we see a virtual background. Our eye is like, what's back there? Yeah. Why don't understand, where did her hand just go? So those cues really matter. So yes, I mean, the basics are lighting from the top,

coming down at you is always better. Having cues in your background that help you, that serve you, for example, when I was presenting on cues, I kept getting the question over and over again, our cues universal, our cues cultural. And RQ's universal, RQ's cultural. And I was so like, this question is crazy. I'm getting all the time. So I took down everything in my background

and I added a world map behind me. The question went away. Really? Just speaking with a world map behind me, it went away because that Q'd people to go, oh, she speaks around the world. Like that small prop. And so what I would think about is,

in your Zoom backgrounds, in your dating profiles, you wanna create cues that either answer questions or attract the right people or detract the wrong people. So I believe for dating specifically and creating allergies. So allergies are props that are gonna either turn someone on or turn someone off.

So allergies, I call it an allergy Q. Okay. An allergy Q is like a Q that people feel strongly about. Okay. But it's going to turn off the wrong people. So for example, I'll give you a really specific example. One of my friends was dating forever. Could not, she went on so many bad first dates, bad first two or three dates. Could not find the right person. I looked all over pictures. They were all very flattering, very beautiful. But the problem is they were too bland. And one of the problems is she's a vegan. And she would that would come up on the first second date. And if you're a vegan, you're either really into that or you're not into that. Very people feel kind of the middle. That's so true. Right. So I said to her, I want you, I bought her a sweatshirt that said, if you're not

nice to animals, I'll kill you. That's what the sweatshirt said, because that's how she feels. She said, this is so extreme. I was like, I want you to wear. I want you to look gorgeous. And I want you to wear it in your very first profile picture, because it's either going to turn someone on real hardcore or they're going to be like allergy.

Yeah, that's so true, right? And that's why you mean by allergy. And she found her man. Yeah, so I want you to create props that are allergic to your wrong people. Right, that's a great idea. Like our brand is called Science of People. I purposely told so science as an allergy.

There are certain people who are like, I don't like science, you're not my person. Right, you're not gonna like my book. Science is in almost every cover marketing in my book because if you don't like science, it's an allergy for you. Yeah. If you like science, you're like, yes, data.

Who wouldn't want to have data and science backing these things? Like not my people. They want like a bobble head just wandering around to say, my opinion is, they want funny stories. And we have some of those, but like you got to like data, you know, and so I think in Archie Mac, our Archie call me.

I agree. I agree. You know, like tell them, go get your Archie Mac. It's true. Like I mean, especially with this type of information, you want to have some kind of legitimate science backing of it, right? I agree, but not everyone does. And so I would think about like, for your personal brand, for your professional brand,

for your LinkedIn profile. Yeah. Like, for example, if you want to get a job in a tech startup, do not be in a suit. 100%. That's a great point. Like, so. You should be in the clothes that you want to wear at your ideal job.

So tell us about that. Let's talk about before I even jump into that, I'm going to forget why do people, when they see each other, and they don't know somebody, they get into that intimate zone by doing that face-to-face kissing or that hugging. When they don't even know them, it's uncomfortable. If you're someone who doesn't like to be touched or anything else, isn't that too just,

like, it's just like you're just assuming and it's like, it can, have that just be, can't that give you the opposite effect? So here's the thing. Humans are super curious creatures. Again, two sewers, I just love. Yeah. Here's what happens is we meet someone,

even if we don't know them, we really want to know, we want to assess you out. And so when we get close, we're producing oxytocin to see, do I like this person? But we're also looking for pheromones. We're also judging, is this my person smell wise? I'm going to tell you we're really disgusting, two disgusting studies. Okay. But these change the way that I think about touch. They did a study where that exact question they're like, why have humans evolved to handshake? It seems crazy.

More than that. And people are now constantly coming up to me, kissing both cheeks. Yes, yes, yes. And like, I don't even know you. And you're like, why would humans, it's very dangerous. We don't really know someone that well to allow them into your existence.

A stranger. Why would you do it? Okay. And then for the other person, it puts them in a situation where they feel like they're being rude if they step away. So then you have to go about that. And then everything becomes,

you're putting yourself in an awkward situation. But it's primal. Here's the problem. It is so primal. That's why it's hard not to do this because that was exactly the question they were wondering. So what pain did is they found that what happens when you handshake someone is you can decide about four of the five personality traits from a handshake alone.

So blind handshake, you can tell about someone's extroversion, you can tell about their agreeableness, you tell how organized they are. So first you can tell a lot about a person by their handshake. They tell us about mine. About, I'm going to let me shake your hand. Okay, okay. Okay, so I would say that you are ambitious, organized, extroverted.

Bob, I hand shake. By your hand shake. Yeah, because what was my hand shake to you? Firm. Okay. Quick, and you only pumped me once. Let me give you, I'm gonna give you the office of hand shake. Okay, you're gonna see how you're gonna see me as different. Are you ready? I'm gonna give you, I just gonna give you the opposite handshake. You're gonna see how you're gonna see me as different.

I just keep you in my real handshake. I'm gonna give you a handshake that is not my personality. You're gonna be like, whoa, this feels really different. Okay, because I've heard that this, I wanted to say one thing, we all know that that, you know what I do, it's like gives someone a handshake and they give you that dead fish. That dead fish, I'm like, that person's so stupid.

It's such a dead fish. I'm gonna give you the dead fish, you're not gonna like it. Okay, that's like awful. Now I'm gonna give you the other one, okay? We'm gonna give you that fish. You're not gonna like it. Okay. That's like awful. Now I'm gonna give you the other one. Okay, we're gonna the other way. You're gonna be like, well, that's so different, ready? Okay, okay.

Oh my God, that's like, people do that. I'm always like, wow. It's like, there's so. So don't you think of me differently? 100%. Okay, what does that say? So tell us about this stuff. Okay, okay.

So first, we learn a lot about someone from a handshake. So mine, a one pump. Whatever it was. I, you know what, I don't even wanna do. I don't wanna tell people because I don't eat a chain to eat one. No, I don't. No, I think it's brilliant.

You have to just know who you are and own it. And that means I don't eat dead fish. Okay, let's go over this again. So mine is, would you say ambitious? Ambitious, extroverted, and organized? Organized? Yes. Deadfish is when it's very, very loose and limp and we see someone as like a pushover,

can't get stuff done, probably timid, and probably not organized. I also think that they're like the pridest lame. I mean, who does that? And lame. Who does that lame? Don't, and also completely like, get aware of, like socially and self unaware. Like, how do you not know that's a shitty handshake, right?

You'd be shocked. Okay, like someone listening is like, oh, I have a dead fish hand shake. I mean, it's a shock. Change it. Okay, so here's what's crazy about this study. It's first they found out you could find out a lot about someone from their handshake.

What's the other one? You didn't tell us the third one. The sturdy one. Oh, you're really sturdy one when I like, really, I may hand you. I like, really, really strong. And I fast pumped you. Yeah, you fast. I just pumped you fast.

Yeah. So I took over the handshake, and that's dominant. Dominant, right? It's very imposing. It's very powerful. It's not even organized. It's like hyper focused. Like, you probably thought, like, whoa, she gets it done.

Yeah. Right? Yes. And so I quick pumped you, and I held harder, and I also pulled you a little bit closer she gets it done. Yeah, right? Yes. And so I quick pumped you and I held harder and I also pulled you a little bit closer to me. Yes. Yeah. You didn't even think we can do is,

you're giving me a hand. When girls do that to me, I'm very like, whoa, I'm always like very like, like put back a little bit or like, take it back. I kind of like it. But when guys do, I'm like, wow, that guy's like, oh, I love when people like dominate and can shake.

Yeah, I like that, like that's like, oh, you's a guy. But I like girls and guys too. I like both. I'm like, oh, you's a guy. But I like girls and guys too. I like both. I'm like, yeah. Be strong. When a girl does a strong like that, Oh my god, I'm into it.

That's strong. It's so intense. And so into it. You were squeezing so hard. So the other thing that can happen is this. So if I turn you up, this is a very submissive position. It's very weak for me. And so I'm saying you're in charge versus if I were to do this to you

That should not feel good. That's saying I'm in charge. There's certain politicians who do this So if you've seen the challenges, you go like this and they pull you close and they go like that That is your in charge. Yeah, so if your palm is up you're in charge If you're if if you're showing your very weak part of your hand, that means you're submissive Right, you're saying I'm weak to you. Also, there's more pharaoh mones that come out here. A lot of times women will be like, oh, it's so good to meet you.

Yes. To be sort of like, I'm showing my intimate space versus like, hey, nice to meet you, which is much more I'm in charge. So that's some handshake science. But what this study found, which I think is insane, is in the 10 to 20 seconds after someone handshaked, some point in the interaction they would touch their own nose.

And they hypothesize that we like to smell with the other person's hand smelled like. And I cannot tell you now that I know this, you'll never be able to learn that. Now when I handshake people, I have to say don't touch my nose, don't touch my nose, don't touch my nose, don't touch my nose. Like it just happened now where I was like don't touch my nose. don't touch my nose, don't touch my nose, don't touch my nose. Like it just happened now where I was like don't touch my nose because it's actually a human instinct I swear to shake hands and then touch your own nose because we want to smell it. I love this. So bare hands are. So you want to see how the other person smells. Yes, you want to. Wow. And hormones and like you can learn a lot about the person by smell.

It's totally subconscious. Like here's another, the other example I share about this in my TED talk, which I think was one of the reasons the TED talk did so well because it's so disgusting. Is they had two groups of people come into the lab, the first group ran on the treadmill wearing sweat pads. They got their sweat. The second group, Skydive for the first time wearing sweat pads. They took the sweat pads, both live identical, but two different kinds of sweat. The second group, Skydive, for the first time, wearing sweat pads. They took the sweat pads, both live identical, but two different kinds of sweat, and they

had participants smell them. Disgusting, right? I hope they paid them really well. And MRI machines. They found that when people smelled the fear sweat, the skydiving sweat, they began to feel afraid, even though they had no idea what they were smelling. When they smelled the runner sweat, they felt nothing at all. So what this means is that when we are afraid, it creates a certain kind of smell, and it's actually catching, it's contagious. So one of the reasons why we insist on cheek kissing is we're like, are you afraid?

Really? A little bit. This is like silence of the land. I don't do this so creepy. It's so creepy. Another favorite seaweed. I'm just joking. No, no, no, no.

But like, but that's what we're, we're, we're sussing out because we don't want to catch it. Very highly charismatic people are so confident. They are sending signals of confidence and we want that confidence. We want to catch it. When someone is low confident, when they're sterile, when they're afraid, we don't want to catch it.

True, true, true. I, that's such a good fact point. What happens if it's not about confidence? when they're sterile, when they're afraid, we don't wanna catch you. True, true, true. That's such a good fact point. What happens if it's not about confidence, this is about like the opposite. Like I don't want this rando to be like touchy me and kissy me, it's not that I'm not confident. It's just like, I just don't want their,

I just don't want their, cause you don't want to touch you on me. Yeah. 100%. So people who are less comfortable with touch, it's probably because they're like, I don't wanna take a risk on your PBGVs. I don't know what you're gonna smell like.

Or like, I don't know you, yeah. It's not big deal. So I kind of like it. Like, I kind of like to know what other people are about. Like, that's my whole job, right? I love listening to that. So, like, I'm gonna smell you. I wanna get close to you on a failure hand.

It's great. I'm like, what if it's something like gross and not very comfortable? I don't know, I'm into it. I'm like, into it. Like, I'm like, no judgment. Like, I'm like, what are you like? What, I'm like into it like I'm like no judgment Like I'm like what do you like what what's gets you going? You know really yeah totally that's my job

So so you think if I could I had an experiment one time where I just all I did the experiment was looking people's junk drawers There are trunks of their car and their medicine cabinet It was like the greatest three months of my life like it was like the best see that would be interesting to me Okay, I like that, but if that would be interesting to me. Okay. I like that. But if you're kissing someone, she's smelling people. I guess as it's subconsciously,

it's telling you something. Exactly. And now that I'm aware of it, like just this gross challenge for listeners. But like next time you cheat because someone just like smell a little bit. Like what do you smell? I'm telling you, you're gonna learn something.

It's a hundred percent true. What if you, like, I guess, and do we even know ourselves, like, what we think of that smell, like, if it could be very non-descripts sometimes? I also think it's super subconscious. Like, even I've known, I've known about this research for almost a decade. Like, I've known about it, and even still I'm trying to assess people out. So, I just try to, like, like, take someone in, like, I take in their handshake, and I try to think, like, what does pops into my head? Because I don't know exactly what it is, but I know there are certain things that will

pop into my head that I'm like, mm, interesting. That is so interesting. I'm like fascinated by it. It's so weird though. But the book is less weird than that. I promise. No, no, no, it's actually, I love all this stuff. There's also something else that I heard that gestures are way bigger than words, right?

Like way more impactful than words. Yes, so there's a beautiful researcher Susan Goldemetto who wrote a book called Hearing Gesture. And basically her argument in all of her research is that gesture isn't just like extra. Like we kind of think of it as like fluff. Like we don't really think about it, but actually gesture is critically important to our comprehension, both as a speaker and as a listener. And that some gestures carry 400% more information than words.

Like for example, if I were to say, I have a really big idea and I hold up, like I'm holding a little quarter, you're like, that doesn't look very big at all. You're actually more likely to believe my hand. Same thing with if I were to say, I have three different things I wanna tell you, but I hold up the number five.

You're like, no, it's five. You're actually more likely to believe my hand. So our brain actually gives a lot of weight to gestures. Yet, we don't think about our gestures. And so one of the experiments we did in our lab, I've always been interested in gesture, is we watched and coded thousands of hours of TED Talks looking for patterns. And we found that the most popular TED Talks looking for patterns. And we found that the most popular TED Talkers by view count use an average of 465 gestures in 18 minutes. It's a huge amount of gesture,

whereas the least popular TED Talkers use an average of 272 gestures, almost half. And the reason for this is when we are listening to a speaker and they know their content really well, they're like outlining their content along with their words. And so when we're thinking about presenting an idea, telling a story on a date, showcasing our smarts, actually the best way that we can underline that is being like, I know my content so well. I'm going to tell you this point number one and this point number two, I'm going to tell you it's this big or it's this big, like we like, it's like, wow, they're so congruent,

their gestures are literally punctuating their words. I'm glad that you mentioned that, Ted, the Ted Talks. So I know you did a bit, you did a bunch of studies on that, and also Shark Tank, which I'll get to in a second. So give me some other cues or points of why, what you noticed when you did all your research with the Ted Talks.

Yes, actually, this brings us right back to what I forgot about, which is vocal power. I wrote that down, voice. Because the gestures and the voice are so much more powerful. And we don't use the actual word you use. Yes, I always think of these opportunities. I imagine you work so hard on your ideas and your presence, your makeup, your hair, your clothes. Imagine if you just added these, It's like super charging your charisma. So gestures one, vocal power was the other very clearly,

in that there is like a TED Talk sound. So I'm gonna do it for you so you can hear it. There is vocal cues that we use. So vocal cues are voice volume pace cadence that make us judge someone's charisma levels. They're one, they're competent. So like for example, all the the best head talk start like this. Today, I have a big idea. I'm going to break it down into three areas that are going to

change your life. And when they get to a statistic, they say, and now that took giant percent, giant percent. And you go, wow, that's a big percent. Like they even cue you when you should be wowed. That is so interesting. So wait, because my TED Talk did very, very well. Yes. And I started with, I wish I just walked it. I was like, I wish you watched it.

I know, I wish it. Damn, I know, I know. Did you use that voice? I started it by saying, yeah, you do the beginning for me. Okay. So I know the secret to getting anything you want in life. You did it. So we were just talking back and forth. You'd be like, I know the secret to getting anything you want in life, but you said it in Ted Talk voice. So I know the secret to getting anything you want in life. That's a Ted Talk voice. You did it. So if you, so you think because what I was like when I did my Ted Talk, yeah, I left their thing. So you think, because what I did my TED talk,

I left their thing, oh my God, I bombed, right? Like so many things went wrong. I had no time on my hands. And I was so nervous that I had cotton mouth. I was like, they had to restart it for me. I'm like, who would stop? Because I need some water. I could not even, there were so many like,

like, foibles that happened. That's good, though. That what I'm thinking, I'm curious, is it because there were so many foibles that I came across very real? Yes. That people maybe were like, ah, that would happen to me that big loser.

Yeah, I mean, yes. Yes, yes. So here's the misconception. If you go watch the TED Talks, it didn't do well. And by the way, it didn't do well like 20,000 views. Still like a lot, right? Right. Go watch those talks.

The misconception is that those people messed up. No. The worst TED Talks sound like this. Today I want to talk to you about a big idea. This is a life-changing idea. The last 20 years I've spent researching has been on the marine biology life in the series of the ocean.

Like, it's like so robotic and so memorized and actually what happens is the worst head talkers, they under-cue. We're right back to where we started. They are so focused on the scripts. Right. They take away all the vocal charisma, they take away all their gestures,

they stand there with their hands limp by their sides in the microphone, reciting a script. Right, they take away all their gestures, they stand there with their hands limped by their sides, in the microphone reciting a script. Right, maybe right, because they all memorize. And there's no gestures. So actually, the foibles, the vulnerability, we like speakers who use a conversational tone, a conversational stage tone, because we're like, ah, we could be having coffee with them.

That feels really real. So all the best times, you're like, brine, brown, Simon, Cinnch, they're not that rehearsed. Now they might have been actually rehearsed, but when they're talking on stage, Ken Robinson, it sounds like they're joking around at your dinner table. It does not sound like, today is the speech of my life.

They're not talking like that. So our vocal power one is not scripted, not undercuing, adding lots of emotion, including foibles, including vulnerability. And second, and this is what they all have, is they use the lowest end of their natural tone. So the other mistake that the worst tattoockers make is they would start on a really high tone like this.

Said, walk on stage, hey everyone, good morning. Today, I really want to talk to you about a big idea. And you're like, no, I cannot listen. That's so true. Click away. So the tone that you give is one of the most important parts of our vocal confidence. More from our guests, at the first a few words

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It only takes a few minutes to create your account and start sending. text habits H-A-B-I-T-S to 833-T-R-Y-S-M-S. That's 833-287-9767. That's text habits to 833-287-9767 to get an extra 500 free texting credits on your trial. Is that the tone? Do you know that girl Elizabeth Holmes from Fade to Us? Let me talk about Elizabeth Holmes. Okay. So this research is pretty well established that lower tones for both men and women are seen as higher in confidence.

Goes flying. Sorry, say that one more time. I want that to be like said properly with me listening. Yes. So it's pretty well established research that people with lower tones are seen as higher in confidence. In fact, research has found that it takes about 500 milliseconds of hearing someone speak to decide how confident they are. It's incredibly fast.

Literally your first word, that's when someone decides how confident they are. It's incredibly fast. Literally your first word, that's when someone decides how confident you are. And it's usually based on the tone. I think that study came out in nearly two thousands. I think Elizabeth Holmes read that study. You think so? I do. I think she read it. And she went, wow, great. This is the clearest link to confidence we have. Women need to be taken more seriously. I'm going to take this study and I'm going to go solo that no one can question my competence and my competence. So what she did is she went too low, right? She went to really low down here,

so she was talking like this. The problem is we all can hear the inauthenticity and this, it's actually distracting. So when she was talking, it was like, what is happening with her voice? So I think she wrote that study and took it one step too far. Well, what's interesting though is she did raise almost a billion dollars with her voice. So I think she wrote that study and took it one step too far. Well, what's interesting though is she did raise almost a billion dollars with that voice.

She did. And she was like a kid from Stanford, right? It worked. It worked. So what is interesting is, against Q-Gong wrong. But these are cues that actually, maybe a Q-Gong wrong, but these cues are so subliminal

that even if you know what's happening, it's happening. It still happens. And like, investors and employees would say, her voice on a weird, but boy did she sound like she knew she was talking about. Well, 100%. Like, first of all, does anyone have any video or? Yeah, has anyone ever heard her speak before the Theranos? Yes.

I've listened to many of them. I did a little breakdown of Theranos. Yes. You can find clips of her on a podcast where her voice is much higher. It was much higher. Oh my gosh. Obviously higher.

Yes, absolutely. And also employees have said that when she was drunk, she would speak higher. I saw that on the special on her. By the way, if you want to hear the perfect example of her low voice, go listen to the first one minute of her TED talk. It's bizarre.

Like it's so low and it's halty. How do you stay that low for so long? Oh my gosh, it must have been like exhausting for maybe that's why she wore turtle necks. It's like it's like, like cover up her book chords. So in your first few lines of your video call, of your phone call, of your date,

you do not wanna go, hi, that is the mistake that we all make is we take in a deep breath and we say hello on the upper part of our breath. So we say, so good to see you. So did I hate that. So we listen to recordings in our lab. We listen to recordings of phone calls, of sales pitches, of negotiations, and always the

highest note someone has is their very first word, which is so sad because that means all of their confidence is given away in their very first words. People go, Hey, it's so good to hear from you. It's true, but the problem is it's like a very weird blend because you're trying to be warm with a warm cue. You want to come across open and nice. Yeah. So you go high, of course, right? Remember that a high voice tone is not warm. A high voice tone just means excited. So like for example, we talk to babies, we talk to puppies. Yeah.

Hello little one. Hi, how are you? Excitement, not warmth. So warmth comes from vocal warmth. So listen to the difference. Vocal warmth is we hear happiness, we hear compassion, we hear smiling and actually smiling changes the sound of our voice. We did this in our lab where we had actors come in and record different halos. So we had them do

their normal hello, hello, then we had them think of something that made them happy. Make a smile and say, hello. So just listen to the difference with that. So this is my neutral hello, hello, here's my happy hello. Hello. Like you can literally hear it in my voice. By your smiling. Yes. Even if it feels like a fake smile. Doesn't matter, you can still hear it.

Wow, okay. Right, because the shape of my mouth, again, we're very subconsciously aware of these cues. Yeah. We don't have to think twice about it, but if I were to answer the phone and be like, hello, I don't sound very excited to hear from you. No, you don't.

I just sound miserable actually. Right. It would be like, ooh, right. I actually would come across this left likable. We literally study this in our lab. People rated the smiling halos as more likable. We asked people to listen to these halos. They had no idea what they were listening to, and they didn't know the person was smiling,

and they rated the person as more friendly, more likable if they want to hang out with them. So when I hear, hello, likable if they wanna hang out with them. So when I hear, hello, you much more wanna hang out with me, just by even that fake smile. So are there, and I think you talk with this book or about smiling in general though. What smiles are the most impactful or the most powerful to get what you want.

So there's a smiling, it's funny because it's sort of gotten a bad rap in the last few years. Like it's horrible to be told to smile like no one likes that. So I try really hard to not give that advice. So what I would say is either smile for real or don't smile at all. Here's why. Dr. Barbara Wilde and her researchers found that when they

showed people pictures of fake smiles and real smiles and the differences in a real smile are upper cheek muscles are activated. So it goes all the way up into our eye, that's in these upper cheeks, right? Yeah. And those upper cheek muscles are activated and by the way, only one in 10 people can consciously activate them. So it's very hard to fake that. That means it's a real smile.

We look for those upper cheek activation muscles. When it's a fake smile, it stays in the bottom half of our face. They're not activated up here. Like, cross feet, you mean? Cross feet, yes. And look at a ton of those. So, it's, the cross feet are fantastic. The problem is, is Botox is a very complicated issue.

I'm not anti Botox, but it's important to know if you're going to do it, that it inhibits your emotional feedback loop. So when they Botox people's smile wrinkles, they actually felt less happy. When they Botoxeebles anger, they felt less angry. So they're actually thinking about using Botoxee's anger management treatment. So it's, again, not better. Seriously? Yeah.

They've actually found that it inhibits the anger cycle. But if you cannot make that anger expression when your eyebrows are pulled down together in those vertical lines, it actually makes your body almost goes, oh, my face is an anger, I guess I'm not that angry. It literally makes you feel less angry. So there are things about using it for anger management techniques because it actually helps inhibit that loop. But for smiling, it can also inhibit your happiness.

So what Barbara Wild found is that when we see someone with a fake smile, we do not have any mood change. When we see someone with a real smile, we do not have any mood change. When we see someone with a real smile, we catch the happiness. So if you want a smile, make sure it's real. That makes you literally more physically memorable. It makes you more contagious. I'd rather you real smile or no smile.

A fake smile doesn't do much. Okay, give me some other cues like that. That goodness, there's so many. I know. There's like a bill. I mean, I'm trying to think of how many. Oh, I want to ask you about power posing. Yes.

Because, you know, it was an Amy Cuddy who did this whole thing. Wasn't that kind of, I heard that people, she had some faulty science behind it. She had some faulty science behind it. And there's no, the power posing is not actually something

that you can use as. She's come out defending her work. So I highly recommend if you're interested in like really learning about it. She's come out with her work. So I highly recommend if you're interested in really learning about it. She's come out with a defense of her work and explanation of what happened. So it hasn't been totally debunked. There was some fuzzy science in there, but she's come out. So it has not been debunked.

She insists that her science was whole. Okay. I'll leave it up to you to decide and you can go read her a bottle. Okay. What is good to know though, I don't know how accurate it is that power posing completely changes your testosterone. That was a big leap. That was the biggest leap in our research. I also think like, I love power posing, but you can't like walk into a meeting like, you know, with your hands above your head. So I like the idea of

it, but I actually like to like take it down an notch, which is just a very simple, my version of a power pose is actually just expansive posture, which very simply the only distance that I care about, I don't care if your arms are up, I don't care if you're claiming space. That doesn't matter to me. Okay, all that I care about is the distance between your ear lobe and your shoulder. The distance. Way. So my favorite distance on the human body.

Okay, really? This is the distance from your ear and your shoulder. Okay, why? Why? When we are anxious or defeated, we tend to roll our shoulders up. We tend to sink our head down. We'll often tilt our head down. People who are really ashamed will often have no space between their ears and their shoulders.

It makes us feel very protected. And so you'll notice that you will be more really anxious. We'll sit like this. Like teenagers will be like, you know, we see any space right here, whereas confident people, they want to claim their space, they roll their shoulders down and back, they usually use arm rests,

they usually have their torso open, they have their head up and out and their chin up. So the only distance that I care about that's the most important on video calls, on profile pictures, is I want this to be as big as possible. But you're not like this in your profile pictures. It was like the worst, because it literally shows low confidence, but you're not going to start your video call.

Hi, good to see you. And that's what people do in their first impressions. They accidentally creep their shoulders up. Hey, everyone, Good to see you. That's a great point. So if you keep your shoulders down and head up, and that's for everything, not just, again, this is for like LinkedIn profiles, LinkedIn profile pictures, video calls, in person, how you wave hello, how you walk into a room, how you carry your stuff.

I mean, oftentimes I'll see you with their laptop, right? And they have it like tightly in front of their chest with their shoulders hunched up. And I'm like, what are you doing? Wow. You look small. So that distance is the only power pose, quote unquote power pose distance that I care about. That's actually the most impactful for your perceived confidence.

But you said that, okay. So when you said we were, when you were kind of imitating that one, how about a head tilt? I heard it. I thought you'd love head tilt. I love you'd tell me. I love head tilt. Yeah, you like head tilt. Yeah, so isn't that still the ear to show? So it's a little bit different, right? So if I'm gonna do a head tilt that I like,

a head tilt is in a universal sign of warmth, it's a universal sign of engagement, it shows on listening. So if I head tilt, I still have lots of distance. Mostly I'm just exposing my ear, and you see that as, ah, she's listening, she's open. Versus, right, so you listening, she's open versus, right, so you don't shrug those ears.

Shrugging. You don't shrug those shoulders up. And that also makes it really hard to have vocal power. So if I were to try to give an entire podcast interview like this, you would actually hear it in my voice. Actually sound smaller, and it sounds weird. Exactly, because you can hear it. We don't like people who take up little space.

For the moment that I add more space, you go, that's better. That is 100% true. Okay, how about this? I've got so many, but like, because I haven't even asked, I feel so, okay, but how about, I have a note here, but I don't remember why the walk.

There's like a lot about a walk here. You could tell a lot by someone's walk. I mean, I don't remember why I had it down here. I don't know, but you can tell some, but there's not, it's funny, there's bi-emotional. Oh, and I've had some interesting things about walking, but I didn't even include it in the book because it's hard to learn it.

It's hard to change your life. Maybe I heard that, what, you're talking about that. I think maybe I mentioned the book that like having movement in your walk, like not having like your arms really stiff, like the more moving you have the more space you take up. Yeah, that was probably what it, okay. So let's get back to the other stuff

they're saying for the video calls. How about in terms of emailing and texting people? Yeah, so the last, the second last chapter in the book is unverbal, right? Because so much of our communication is email. Right. What we're fighting in verbal is sterile. Meaning a lot of our communication has gotten so sterile that our words mean nothing.

So we send emails like, hey, our meeting is planned for next week. I'll prepare the proposal for you and I'll get all the information over to you, talk to you next Tuesday. But, right, like we get those emails all the time. It's hard to reply to them. We're burnt out. And texting also. And texting also, right? Hey, are we still on for next Tuesday? Right right we get those all the time the problem is is in terms of our brain our brain needs more cues If we have taken out all the cues from our body language in email We have no body language in email. We have no facial expressions email. We have no voice-turning email We better make our verbal cues pretty powerful, right?

And so that's why we're so burnt out on email That's why we all might respond slowly on email. That's why people might respond to the email, so there's not enough cues. It's like under signaling. Right. So what I like to think about is adding warmth and competence to your emails, to your texts. To be text also?

Yes. Absolutely. So when we are getting a text from email for someone or reading a LinkedIn profile, we're also trying to see warmth and competence. It doesn't go away in innovation. So I someone or reading a LinkedIn profile, we're also trying to see warmth and competence. It doesn't go away in innovation. So I can look at a LinkedIn profile, actually we've said that we did in our lab,

we had people come into our lab, I felt bad for these participants, they had no idea it was coming for them. And we had them take our charisma diagnostic to see where they were on warmth and competence. By the way, that's up for free, you can get whatever you want, it's scienceeval.com slash charisma,

so take it as many times as you want. So I then take that. It's like a, you know, 10 question questionnaire to see where they were on one of the competence. Then we asked them to open up their email sent folder. And we looked at their last five emails by sent. And we counted the number of warm words and number of competent words. So warm words are words that are like the warm and fuzzies. Happy, best together, collaborate, open, emojis are warm, exclamation points are warm. Words like wow, yay, fab, whoop. Those are all warm words. They make us feel like, oh, wow, I like this person. But emoji, doesn't it kind of also, yeah, it takes away the people you don't feel a person's company. Right. It's warm. It's warm. Yeah. It's friendly. It's friendly. It's too, like,

cutesy. Yeah. It's all friendly. Yeah. it's friendly. You feel like it's too like, you see, yeah, it's all friendly. So we counter the number of warm words and we counter the number of competent words. Comptant words are words that make you want to get it done. Productive, efficient, brainstorm, power through goal, win, achieve, success, master, those kind of words, statistics, numbers, prices, charts, graphs, right? Mm-hmm. Right.

So those are all competence. We count them all up and we could almost exactly predict where someone was in the Christmas scale, based on the kind of words they use. So if someone was highly charismatic, they had a perfect balance of warmth and competence. If someone was highly warm, they used a ton of emojis and a ton of exclamation points. And someone was super competent. They had either nothing at all or lots of statistics and big words. Wow.

So in your texts and your emails, you want a balance, a number warm-thin confidence words. Now, is that for personal and professional? I think so. Right? Like I want to be seen as charismatic in all my relationships. Now, on emails that don't matter, like emails where it's purely logistics, sure, you don't need to do it. Right? Like these are the emails that matter to you. Like the emails like to your boss or client or an important email to your best friend. So it's not that you have to use them in every email. Like you wouldn't be like, have the perfect hand gestures

when you're trying to talk to your husband about the weekend plan. Okay, but if you want to text back from a guy that you like or woman that you like, you want to use it, right? So give us an example of what you should do and what you shouldn't do. Okay, okay, so what I wouldn't do is,

are we still on for tonight? Right, which is like often the text that you get. Okay, okay, so what I wouldn't do is, are we still on for tonight? Which is like often the text that you get. It's sterile. There's nothing there. I'm just making this up before I say hi, you know, like whatever. I don't know. Hi, like hey, like hi.

You know, you say like don't even say things that are like social scripting like how was your day? A great, yeah. Oh, agree. So like, for example, I live in Texas. Right. So, I might be like, howdy. Yeah.

Okay. Just to be a little different, you know? Howdy. And I might be like, so instead of, are we on for tonight? Howdy. So excited for tonight. Still looking good. So, that's very different because I'm giving an interesting howdy as an interesting

opener. I'm saying, so excited for tonight. So, it's a little dopamine word. Excited is a great dopamine word. It's almost like a charisma word. It's perfectly warm and competent. And then I'm like, still looking good for tonight. Still looking good for tonight is such a good

psychological sentence. Right. Because you're basically saying, I'm looking good. Are you looking good? Yeah. I love it. Okay, if you don't live in Texas, what do you do?

What do you do? I love. What if it's not a bunch of in Texas, what do you do? What do you roll? Chow? What if it's not a bunch of plants? Give me another one that's not planned. And by the way, you don't have to like use all of the numbers. You can, but like, yeah, you don't have to use howdy or a low-har, chow, or whatever. They're great.

Yeah, if you can, if you've been to the way. If you want so much to respond to you, that's not like, if you don't have plans, but you want them to engage. It's using words that are gonna wake people up. So it's not like, how's your day going? Man. Right.

So boring. It's what's good today. We're like, even just like that very small switch, asking someone, how are you? You're gonna get good, busy. Exact, or nothing. Or nothing. Asking someone, what's good?

What's good? You're gonna get like, someone, what's good? What's good? You're gonna get like, well, what's good? What's good? Well, you know, I've just had a beautiful cup of coffee. Me too. We should get one together next week. Right, like it's using more, being a little senior.

By your second kit, like you'd be, I've been listening. You could be a great like matchmaking coach too. I, you know what? Back in the day, matchmaking was like my dream career. I would like, I would love it. Oh, was like my dream career. I would like love it. Oh, I would love it too. I would let I would do personality assessments on people. I would do body language.

By the way, I'm getting to that. Don't even think you're getting away. Scott free with all of that. I didn't even get to the hard stuff. Yeah. I'm getting through all the stuff. Is there hard stuff? No, not listen, I'm getting through the stuff

that's like, you know, very tactile for people who work. Okay. For work, for business. Like okay, so it would be hard one. Emails, for work, for business. Like, okay, so if you need a hard one. Emails, okay, well, first of all, I have a bunch. I wanna talk about like even how, and I wanna talk about the shark tank pitches. Like, you analyze like 500 of them, right?

495. And you notice which ones, why the ones that did well versus not? Yes. Okay, talk about that. And then I'm gonna get into the, I wanna get into the scientific personality knowing, like even like opposites. like if you're a neurotic

person and seeing with I found that stuff so interesting. So interesting. That would be matchmaking stuff for sure. Like, we should take first. And also just like in terms of like relationships in general. It like if you're in one and it's not working and why it's not working. And I think that was fascinating when I heard you talk about that. The personality stuff is the basis of all of our relationships, right? So, okay, so let's talk about a chart tank and then personality. Is that good?

Perfect. I have always other things I want to talk about the interruptor, which I've interrupted. You were really into that. No, we're talking. It's great. Okay, um, chart tank and the scientific popularity. Well, you got to pick which one are we going to do? Do the chart tank, but do it quickly so we can move on.

Oh, okay. And like, don't stay on it forever. Okay, okay, okay. So we analyzed 495 pitches on shark tank looking for patterns. Very, very simply the biggest pattern was dopamine. In other words, the pictures that created some kind of interaction were the ones who did best. So they thought of some reason to pass out a sample to touch to go into the shark's intimate

space, because in the shark tanker remember, they're all seven feet away. It's really hard to bomb with someone when you're in the public zone. So we found that what would happen is they would cleverly think of ways to go very briefly into the shark's intimate zone or personal zone and they immediately had Maroxytocin.

And that you noticed are the ones that did that were much more likely to get a deal. And also when they walked in, they did something. Their first impressions were really strong. So they had a grand entrance. Maybe that's what you meant by walk. Maybe. They were walking in.

So like, when from the very first moment that you saw them, they were walking in there, were taking up space. They had lots of space between their ears and their shoulders. Oftentimes they would use some sort of a greeting hand gesture like they would wave to a shark or say, good morning, sharks. There's something about it.

Exactly, there's something about we like to be acknowledged. Sharks like it too. So when someone was like, jam and a pitch you an idea with no hand gestures, no open palm, we love an open palm. So that was like the biggest takeaway. Open palm, some kind of greeting, some kind of interaction, any opportunity

you could have to go into someone's personal space or social space, not intimate. The social space, you're gonna to produce more opportunities for connection. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. You're inhaling and long exhale.

Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or paid subscription starting at 12.99 per month. So walking in, doing some kind of hand gesture was a big one. Open palm, yep, having some kind of interaction

if you can and having a greeting. Good to see you, sharks. So happy to be here. Today I have a great deal for you. I have a one that was or anything about like I noticed a lot of them when they I love that show, by the way. So good. Yeah. When they hone in on one particular shark. Like always better. Is that purposeful? Yeah, we also found that if shark would say something like, you remind me of myself almost always, they were gonna get a deal eventually. So there was something to like, like picking your target and giving them extra eye contact, extra nods, answering their questions first, right?

Like, so it's good to have like a pick, like a target. Same thing in dating, I think too. Like it's always good to have like a target that you're going after as opposed to like, I, will they, anyone? No, you want to date the right person. Exactly. Okay, I dating, I think too. Like it's always good to have like a target that you're going after as opposed to like, I, will they, anyone? No, you want to date the right person. Exactly. Okay, I know what I want to ask you before we moved on

to these other things, which I think is really important as a priming. How do you prime people? So that's exactly what we're talking about with the words. So like, when you mention words like collaborate, people are more likely to be collaborative. So that's the definition of priming. Priming is when you set up people's behavior

by priming one with the right cues, like a wall primer. You prime a wall so the paint is stickier. Words can prime interactions. So if I have an email or a text where I'm like, I'm so excited for tonight, are we still looking good? I am priming for excitement and good looking.

Yeah, good looking. So I love that. And then what was the other, oh yeah. All these other things. I would have personality. Yeah, that was okay. Well, personalities have a very big topic. I know, but I found it.

You want to pick your favorite? I just find it to be so fascinating. Like why certain relationships do well versus not? And like, again, if you, when you have this information, and also this can be like professional relationships. Oh, not just the book I gave example, more professional relationships, even though it's really important

for personal relationships. So right, because you can still have, it's the same trait to apply, right? 100%. So let's talk, can you talk about that? Yes. So there's a lot of personality tests out there. Anyogram is very popular right now, disc is very popular right now. Myers, Brigh. Those are all fine, but they're just not super backed

up in research. It doesn't mean they're not true. They just haven't been replicated over large populations. The one that has is the big five. The big five is replicated over and over again. It's like the standard in the academic community for personality. And I basically have studied that there are five personality traits that everyone has and you're either high, medium, or low on each of them. They're like a spectrum.

So openness is how you approach ideas, creativity, conscientiousness is your organization, your approach to details, extraversion. So it's ocean, OCEAN. So I'm extraversion how you approach people, agreeableness, how you approach cooperation and teamwork, my favorite neuroticism, how you approach worry. And so like, for example, I think you were saying something

about like even, this is a piece of information I saw. Like you're saying, if you're one person who's very open, like you wanna try like a taco stand, like you're saying, if you're one person who's very open, like you want to try like a taco stand, like down the street, right? Like get to, like, if you want to like become, you know, fast friends with someone at a conference, right? Yes. You can easily see it and you ask someone else and they're like, nah, I don't really want

to go. Yes. Those are those two open person, these are another open person. Yes. Openness is like one of the most helpful. That's why I start with it in the book, which is if you wanna know how open someone is asked where they wanna go, where they wanna go for lunch.

Right. A high open person will be like, let's try somewhere new. Let's go to that new place, it's all. That tells you a lot about that. That means that they are driven by new. They get bored easily. If someone's like, oh, I have my favorite place

with my favorite dish, my favorite waitress, and I know exactly where to park. That's probably a low up person. Like tradition, habit, retrain, routine. The way that you would approach them for pitching a new idea, professional, let's say it professionally, is very different. So a high open person, if I have a high open client, I'm pitching on new. I have a great new idea for you. You're going to love it. It's going gonna completely change the way you interact. I hope person is like turned on by that. They're like, yes, a new way to interact. A low-op person is like, no, I don't want a new way to interact.

I'm, I'm interacting just fine. Thank you very much. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. A low-op person, I would say, listen. You're doing a great job with what you're doing. I have one little tweak. It's gonna make things easier for you. It's proven by research. it's proven by other people,

and if you make this one small change, it will help everything else be so much easier for you. How do you know if someone is, or not all the time, or they wanna go for lunch? Yeah, that's exactly a great one. We're if you're not having lunch, though, or like even in a,

so we have a research on our website, which has like, I call them behavioral questions, or like questions you can ask to like, suss out someone's personality. So like, things like, where do you wanna go for lunch? Things like, what do you do this weekend? I open person's like, oh, you know, there's this festival that we heard about,

literally, so I'm high open. Literally this weekend, I just got confirmation of my tickets. I'm so excited to a fairy festival. I'm taking my daughter, I never been before, it's the Panty Uncle Gardens, and it's literally a, they put fairy figurines and trees. It sounds amazing.

I don't know if it's gonna be amazing, but I can't go. So never got into that before, but my high openness, without would tell you that I'm into high openness, high openness, like they're trying something and they're doing something new. A low open person's like, oh, well, every Friday,

I have dinner with my family. Saturdays, we always do pancake breakfast, usually're doing something new. A low open person's like, oh, well, every Friday, I have dinner with my family. Saturdays, we always do pancake breakfast. Usually we have movie night. We're seeing a regiment. We're seeing a regiment. So that's gonna sus out. And what's the other ones that you said they're not great. They're not compatible though.

You said highly neurotic or. Hyerotic and loronics are great together. So hyerotic and loronics are thinking balance to their out really well. Right. They found research shows that too low conscientious people in a marriage have financial problems.

Totally, that makes sense. They don't want to pay bills. So, does it make sense? So, is it true that opposites attract or not always? Not always. That's the cliche that isn't always true. Sometimes high and low people drive each other crazy.

Actually, that's a really hard one in a marriage because high open people are like, let's try some more new people. That was really hard. So that one's hard opposites, but low and high neurotics do well together, typically, not always, but typically. Yeah.

High and low contentious people drive each other crazy. The high conscious person is like, pick up your socks. Yes, just freaking pick up your socks. And the low conscious person is like, my pile is our organization. Well, what if you have a high conscious, high conscious, but low open, It's just freaking pick up your socks and the little consciousness person is like, my piles are organization. Right. What if you have a high conscientious, high conscientious, but low open it? Like what if you have like, oh yeah, that's, that's all.

So this, right? Right. And that's the dynamics of marriages, right? Like you can tell, you can solve so much dynamics of a marriage. If you know people's personality traits and personality ratings. So for example, if someone is, if I know, look, I have, I do the personality matrix for everyone in my life, right? I know everyone in my life's ocean, and they know mine too, by the way.

Because if I'm like, okay, I have an employee, let's say, where I give them their personality test before I start, and they are high in openness, okay great, they're gonna want the new projects. I should give them new stuff, not as much old routine. They're gonna get really bored, right? And they're high contentious. I cannot casually assign them a project. I have to make sure that if I have an assignment project, I am ready to go with details.

So like for example, I have a high conscious employee and if I were to say hey next week, I really want to talk about you coding our YouTube videos. She'd be like, okay, how do I do that? Is there a tutorial that I can watch? When do I need to do that Tuesday mornings or Monday mornings? And if I don't have those answers for her right then, and Eric creates an anxiety. So that way knowing your people and how they're ready, you can predict what their needs are.

Right. That's why I think this is so important this stuff. Like, it's to me, I think there's just so. And in matchmaking, if I was ever gonna be a matchmaker, I would try to match people who I think are gonna help each other. Like some opposites are helpful. Lone, rhotic, and hyaluronic, they're helpful.

Low-conscious, side-conscious. They can drive each other crazy, but they can also help the other. A low-conscious person can help a high-conscious person be more spontaneous. And that high-conscious person can help a low-conscious person be more organized. That can work if you're willing to learn.

Right, right, right. You have to, I feel like a lot of this stuff though, like there's always, of course, it's never like an exact thing, but I find this to be so helpful in just in terms of personal relationship understanding this stuff. And that is what took anxiety away from me.

Right, like my anxiety, my awkwardness comes from not understanding, not knowing, not knowing how to help my husband, not knowing how to predict my friends' needs, disappointing them. So when I felt like I had so much relief when I learned the personality matrix, so I was like, oh, I know what she's going to want because here's where she is. You don't even seem awkward. I can't, you keep on saying that. I am, ask my high school friend, they'll tell you.

Really? Because you don't have any. There's no one to ask but yeah Oh come on Well that goes into the science of popularity. Yes. What makes somebody popular? It's funny. Yes. This is a great This is like a great kind of sum up of everything we talked about which is Under signaling is bad if there's one thing you're gonna take away from this interview is Undercuing under signaling holding back is bad. It never serves you it gets you to the danger zone Same thing with popularity. So they want to talk into the danger zone. Same thing with popularity.

So they want to talk about the danger zone. The danger zone is when we're sterile, that's when we're not warm or competent. We're not sending enough cues. And that's called a danger zone. That's what I call the danger zone. It's like that's when people dismiss you, that's when people feel like they can't quite get a read on you.

You're not warm or competent. Same thing with popularity. They want to know what makes kids popular. Now what's funny about this if you were to think about what makes kids popular? What would you guess? I know you know the answer to this. So what would you get? I would have guessed people who are of course open that are actually a lot of it that would be openness, friendly. Friendly, huh? Actually, a lot of it would be openness, friendly. Friendly, huh? So, has it ease?

Yeah, like casual, easy-going. Yeah, casual, too. I also would have probably guessed pretty or handsome. Oh, you're talking about Kate. For girls, I would say pretty. For boys, I would say athletic. athletic. athletic.

Right. So that is what most people think. Yeah. But actually, when they looked at it, and they did this across multiple schools, they had all the kids basically rate and rank each other and tell who their connections were, so they could see literally who were the most popular kids.

What they found, there was one difference. It didn't have to do the GPA, it didn't have to do that. Letticism, it didn't have to do it prettiness. They also had them all ranked for attractiveness as well. Well, it had to do with the most popular kids, had the longest list of people they liked. The most popular kids had the longest list of people they liked. In other words, to be popular, you have to work on liking more people. Not being pretty, not getting people like you,

they had the longest list of people that they liked. How, why is that and how is that? They found that those are the kids that would walk down the hallway and smile first, nod first, wave first. They were the kids who would say, hey, come sit with us. Like a fairest viewer.

Exactly. Friends with everybody. And so like, that's, I think, the word trying, what I, my work, my mission in this world is trying to fight against. Holding back, like, if you like someone, just say you like them. trying what I my work my mission in this world is trying to fight against holding back. Like if you like someone just say you like them. If you're with someone assume that you're going to like them, right, I would always rather assume liking than try to be protective

or ambivalent. Really. No, I mean, I'm saying really with like popularity stuff, like the more people so the people who are, because you know that whole thing about like mean girls, right? Yeah. more people so the people who are, because you know that whole thing about like mean girls, right? We're much more discretionary, discerning mean girls, they're not the true popular girls. They're not the really the popular girls. So the people who are friends, they're known as mean girls. They're known as mean girls, but those are the groups that people want to become friends

with. Now, when you did your research on science and popularity with young people, how did it change as you were getting older? No, for older people. Because you could be a not popular kid, but you're a super popular adult. Could you not, I don't know. I don't think the study actually looked into adults.

It was purely teenagers. It was purely teenagers. It was purely teenagers. But I do think this is the same. I think at work, the people who we think are probably the ones who say hi to us first invite us out to lunch. They're the Lakers. They're the ones that people like, yes, those are the people I want to be with.

So when I read that study, I decided in that moment I'm going to be a Laker. I would rather say I like you and have you reject me than miss the opportunity of us liking each other. Yeah, absolutely. And that's good information for kids to hear too, right? It's like, yes, 100%. So that's the kind of empowering. And I tried to write the books to be safe for kids' dangers.

Like, there's nothing in there that would be inappropriate for them. Right. Specifically, because I wish that we had had more of this kind of communication work. Like, I wish that we'd had an empowering way. Super, super, like, I think it's so empowering. You know, I wanted to talk about a couple different things too.

Like how does spot a liar? Things like that that I think is super valuable. Like you talk about a lot of like Lance Armstrong and the boat here, Rod and the boat here. Even like Britney Spears, you know. So fun. Is there, can you just give a couple different points? Sure.

A certain things like that. How does spot a liar would be one of them. And then, well, let's just do that one. Okay. That's a very big topic. I mean, honestly, I could have wrote a book just on that topic. On Liars, yeah. Yeah, but I was like, it's so negative.

I decided to only keep it to one chapter. Right. Because I was like, I was talking to my publisher. I was like, this could be its own science-done book. And I was like, oh, the idea of doing a bunch of touring about Hattest Pot of that, deceiver in your life. You know, I just was like, oh, the idea of doing a bunch of touring about how to spot that deceiver in your life. You know, I just was like, no, let's keep it to one chapter. So we did a bunch of research in our lab on light detection.

Very simply, we had people submit two truths in a lie to us. Yeah, I love this. So fun. It was such fun research to code. Two truths in a lie is a very simple game. You say, two true statements about yourself in one lie, but you try to hide which one is the lie. And we coded them to see if we could find differences. That was a lot of our line of action research. We found just for differences in the lies.

So I'll give you my favorite one, which is a vocal cue, which is that liars typically done the lying statement. They asked it. So instead of saying the statement, they went up at the end of their sentence. If you were asking a question, because they were sure that was true. And liars, the research proves this. Second-emic research that liars don't believe what they're saying. So they're basically asking, do you believe me? Right. So I'll give you mine. Here's two, three straightness about me.

See if you can figure out which is the lie. I'm from Los Angeles. I love dogs. I'm a Los Angeles. I love dogs. I'm a vegetarian. You're a vegetarian. Not a vegetarian, right? That's a question. That's the one. That's exactly how they sound. It went up just a little bit. Yeah. Exactly. That's exactly what happens. So the lie made them a little nervous. They went a little higher than the verbal power. Yeah. And they often went up their sentence. If they were asking you. So that's the biggest thing that's wanting. Yeah, look, listen for that.

If you accidentally hear the question reflection and second, make sure that if I don't want to teach, you had a lie better. That was the other part of this, but I don't want to teach you how to lie better. But if you believe in something, say it, like a price or a timeline, don't say the price of my service is $5,000.

Right. So the price of my service is $5,000. Right. So the price of my service is $5,000. Because then you're seeing like uncertain. Exactly. So it's more important on delivery. Negotiations asking for your raise, asking for promotion, don't ask, it's say it. That's a great thing, because when you have that voice,

that octave going up, it sounds like you're asking permission. Exactly. And you're begging people to negotiate with you. People subconsciously are like, she doesn't believe what she's saying. Should I believe what she's saying? Right. That's giving me another one. Like the person of the lips I know is one. Yes. The person is another one. So lip person is the universal with holding Q. So we're like holding back. So like if I press my lips together into a hard line. So we found that and Lance Armstrong did this in his Larry King interview that liars

will often lip purse right before or right after a lie. As if to be like, hmm, don't give it away. Right. So it'll be like, like mine would be, I'm from Los Angeles, I love dogs, and I'm a vegetarian. Like, but you know what you just did, Alissa with Holmes I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,

I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,

I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,

I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was we haven't heard before, that's like, oh, very interesting. I've heard the person of the lips before. Um, there's so many.

There's like, I would say 14 different, like red flag cues to gonna look out for, one you haven't heard of them. Like when someone's deceiving you, can I actually give a myth, which is much more empowering? Yeah. Like when someone's deceiving you, can actually give a myth, which is much more empowering. Yeah. There's a horrible myth about lie detection

that when someone looks up to the left, they're lying. Yeah. When they look up to the right, they're lying. That has never been repeated in research. Really? Never been repeated. In fact, like do not use that because it will make you get false positives.

Lefty is often switched. There are people who process down. There are people who process up. That's true. And so you have to be very lefties often switch. There are people who process down, there are people who process up. That's true. And so you have to be very careful of the mitts. There's no panocchios nose, right? Like if someone lit purses, it does not mean they're lying. Right?

Is that could be their baseline? I talk about this in the book, like how you protect yourself. So just keep in mind with light acting. There's no like one single cue that means someone's lying. There's red flags. There's a cluster of red flags you can look for, but not one single queue. Is there, okay, so I feel like,

is there anything else we can go through that's like you wanted to kind of speak about? Let's do the last one is that had us stop interrupting. Get someone to stop interrupting. Should we do that as the last one? Yeah, absolutely go ahead. That's a kind of my favorite one. I know, I saw that one.

I love that one. It's so fun. This is so practical. If you're interrupted, you have to notice. So this is if you are interrupted and you want to get someone to stop talking, this is also how. If you're interrupted, you have to notice. So this is if you are interrupted and you want to get someone to stop talking, this is also how you can politely interrupt, and this is also what you can do with it over talker.

So it's all the same skill, okay? So there's three different things you can do, and they go up in level of aggression, right? So level one is when someone's speaking and you wanna get it word, and you can, I call the fish, I call the the fish. I call it the fish. You just open your mouth slightly. We know this universal cue of like,

don't people do that naturally though? No, especially because what happens is, instinctively, if we're like, I wanna talk, I wanna talk, we go, we often will hold our mouth and to say, keep together, it's not your turn, it's not your turn, but that's actually opposite of what you wanna do. You wanna open your mouth.

Yeah, so it's, right, so that not your turn, it's not your turn. But that's not the opposite of what you want to do. You want to open your mouth. Yeah, so it's, right. So that's a very, it works on video too. That's a great one. It's a great one. It's a great one. It's a great one. It's a great one. It's a great one.

Yeah, especially even if you're on mute, you can, what did you do on the phone? I think even like, like breathing, you can like, you can like, you can like, you can like, you can, I'm about to say something. I'm taking a deep breath to about to talk. That's okay. Yes. I'm about to say something. I'm taking a deep breath to talk. That's okay. Fish. Then the bookmark. The bookmark is when you just hold up your hand just slightly.

So like you just, excuse me, this also looks like a pupil. Like you're holding your hand up. So what you can do is like, I bet you're just holding your hand up slightly. You can also pair them together. That's a good one too. Yeah.

And by the way, the longer someone talks, the more aggressive you can be pair them together. That's a good one too. Yeah. And by the way, the longer someone talks, the more aggressive you can be with this, like literally like, like the higher your hand can go. Like that's like the more egregious it is. And lastly is a touch. If someone's like so in their own world talking, you can usually anchor them with like a... Very, very quick touch.

And it works. Yeah, it works. And by the way, if you've gotten to that point, they're still not talking. This is not the person you want to be in a conversation with. Yeah, I mean, a lot of people are so completely unaware. Unaware, that's what, like, a touch is the final thing. But they don't get the touch,

and then it'll wrap up in the next 10 seconds. This is a rude person. It's probably a narcissist. Absolutely. So, is there a lot of difference between, I mean, there are traits that are narcissistic and charismatic. Are there a lot that kind of,

I think that there are. I don't know too much about narcissism. I haven't done that much research on it, but I think that confidence can be something. Yeah. So confidence is closer to narcissism than charisma, but narcissists can be charismatic. They usually very much are.

Can be. I don't know. I would be curious to see the research if there's like a big overlap. I'm looking here again, because there's so many like I didn't ask you all these other questions. You come back again Yeah, of course I'm coming out like all the time. I'm happy to I mean I have I have all these things too

We can definitely do part two because like you have so much amazing information I'm trying to like just give like just at flavor. Hopefully we gave a lot This is one like I always like to kind of end interviews on this idea, which is yes, charisma is warm, think competence, but it doesn't mean that you have to be like a robot. Like there are 90s excuse you can choose from. So as you pick them, you get to kind of pick your recipe.

I think that's like the fun part, right? Like we don't all want to look and sound the same. That would be horrible. So I think the fun part of is like picking the cues that make you feel good. Like that's your unique flavor. And so like if everyone could just pick their unique flavor of charisma, I would be so happy. I mean, listen, you've been incredible as usual. That was true. You gave a lot of love. I love this stuff. Like, but it shows. And you're like super passionate about it, which is, which makes it why it's so good.

I'm not joking. You have to come back. I'm back in LA all the time. Okay. This is like, I love all the stuff. I love it. I love it. Of course. I mean, tell people, okay, the first, her book is called Q's. And like I said, the first one's called captivate. So amazing, informative, helpful, for any form of communication, really. Where do people find you if they want to know more about you? Yes, so I read the audible books,

if you like my vocal power. So you can check Audible, it's on Amazon, wherever books are sold, I think it's still in airports. And then I'm at scienceofpeople.com. So if you want to see some of my Q breakdowns, I do Britney Spears, The Rock, just in Bieber, you can go check out my YouTube channel. I have a lotofpeople.com. So if you want to see some of my Q breakdowns, I do Britney Spears, the rock just in Bieber You can go check out my YouTube channel. I have a lot of fun on there. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Bye everyone. Bye This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Halataha, CEO of the award-winning digital media

empire Yap Media, and host of Yap Young and Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young and Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. Each week, we dive into a new topic like the Art of Side Hustles, how to level up your

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