Habits and Hustle - Episode 183: Jason Feifer – Editor in Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine and Host of the Podcast Problem Solvers

Episode Date: September 6, 2022

Pre-order Jen’s New Book: Bigger, Better, Bolder today: https://amzn.to/3hvtqYp Jason Feifer is Editor in Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine and Host of the Podcast Problem Solvers. Jason has an anecdote for every situation and they’re all great. He’s retained so much information throughout his life and seems to key in on whatever happens to him in extreme detail. In this episode, he explains to Jen how and why he does this and how having a story for every conversation/question has helped him so much. He talks about success, transferrable skills (as he calls it, the ZigZag Payoff), and more in refreshing fun ways opening up an approach to your own pursuits that you may not have even thought of. Tweaking the usual information you might expect from someone talking about success and making it fun, new, and much more practical. He’s funny, a wealth of knowledge, and a fast talker so there’s plenty to get out of this episode. Give it a listen! Youtube Link to This Episode Jason Feifer Website – https://www.jasonfeifer.com/ Jason Feifer Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/heyfeifer ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's TRU NIA-GEN, and we have a special offer for new customers to receive 20% off, all orders a hundred100 or more using the code hustle 20 until August 30th 2022. So definitely run don't walk and scoop some up now. I got this Tony Robbins you're listening to habits in hustle. Today on the podcast we have Jason Feffer. Jason is the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur magazine. He's a podcast host of not one, but I believe three podcasts.

He's a book author. His new book is called Built for Tomorrow. He also is a keynote speaker and a startup advisor. Jason does a ton of things and he wears lots of hats and he's a very interesting guy. I loved this podcast. We had a great time talking. His new book is really about resilience

and how you can thrive in a time of change and how you can change with the times. The book is great. There's a lot of thought-provoking ideas. Jason gives a lot of tangible, practical things that you guys can do, which is something that I always love when guests do. And this, like I said, this was a great conversation.

I hope you enjoy the podcast. Today on the podcast, we have Jason Fyfer, like Michelle Fyfer, who is of course the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine. He's a podcaster. You are a dad. You've got some, and also you are really funny on social media. I have to tell you I follow you. You're welcome. I appreciate that. No, you're welcome. Are we recording right in? Why not? Yeah. Why? Yeah. We're doing the, this is it. This is the intro. This is that. That's great. There's nothing super fancy about this podcast. Let me tell you. We go, I told you this. I'm just going to like just start talking and, you know, whatever

it be, it will be. So yeah, I was being honest and I was being sincere. I do follow you on Instagram. I find you to be very funny and very clever. Thank you. You're welcome. And you do it before, I mean, before you were the editor and chief of entrepreneur, and I should also, by the way, say, he's also an author, right? And his newest book is called Built for Tomorrow, which by the way, I read this last few days, very good book, Jason. You're a good, right? Thank you very much. You're welcome. I appreciate that. You're welcome. So you do it all. I mean, how do you have time? By the way, you don't even have one podcast. Do have like what two podcasts or three podcasts there. I will have two currently.

I had three and I aspire to find the time to go back to the third. Okay, so you how do you do that? Plus the run the magazine and be a dad and do all your other side hustles because you have to have a lot of side hustles given the fact of what your book is about, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I have even more. I do a lot of startup consulting. I do some television development. I do a lot of traveling and speaking.

So no, I do a lot. Okay. So here's how I do it. I think of time as a balloon. You know, here's the thing. You don't expand a balloon in order to fit air into it. Right? That's not how a balloon works.

Right. How does a balloon work? A balloon works that you blow the air into it and then the balloon expands. Time is the same way. So if you were to say, you know, I would love to do that other thing, but I just don't have the time for it. Well, duh, of course you don't have the time for it.

Nobody has the time. Nobody is like, you know, I just don't have the time for it. Well, duh, of course you don't have the time for it. Nobody has the time. Nobody is like, you know, I just happen to have an hour and a half every day that I don't have a field and I'm looking for something to fill it. It's like not how it works, right? Because we all operate under, have you ever heard of Parkinson's law? No, I had, is that in the book?

I didn't see it. I don't know if Parkinson's law is in the book, but it should be because it's one of my favorites. Okay, what is it? Parkinson's law states that work expands to fit the time allotted. So if you have a lot of time to do the work, it will take a lot of time. If you have a little time to do the work, it will take a little time. That's how we work.

We work under Parkinson's Law. It's just true. Now apply it to like literally everything you do. So is why I love deadlines. So you know, you will never have the point is you will never have just like time like like, oh, I have an hour and a half. So instead, here's what you have to do. You have to think of your time like a balloon. A balloon expands under pressure, time expands under pressure. So, if you add more things, then what it will do is force you to reconsider all the other things that you do and the ways in which you do them. And so you will start to think, you know, this other project that I have, I bet I could

do it a lot more efficiently. What if I started to do this? Or, you know, okay, now I'm finally pushed to get the assistant that I didn't have and I'm going to stop updating my website myself. Or like, whatever it is, you will be forced to rethink everything that you do so that you can fit more in. And importantly, probably drop some things that you shouldn't be doing anyway because it's a waste of your time and it's not getting you anything and now you're being forced to really consider it.

So that's how I do it. I add. I'm a big adder and then I basically I think I will add this and then I will figure out how to make it work. Then I do and that means that I change everything else around me and as a result I get to do more and more. That's a great beginning to this podcast, a great answer and a great sound bite.

And as 100% what I actually do too, it's also why they say if you want something done, you give it to a busy person, right? Because it also, right? Because the more time someone has the less things actually get done. Yes, that's totally true. Because the busy person is in the business of figuring out how best to use their time.

Right. I am overloaded, but I still keep saying yes to things. And the reason is because I know that I will figure out how to make a work, and I like saying yes to opportunities, and I think that it's worth figuring out how to make a work. And I like saying yes to opportunities. And I think that it's worth figuring out how to say yes instead of saying no. I'm such a believer in that. And it's such a, it's like the antithesis of what people always say. Like, oh, you have to be laser focused on one thing to be successful. Like, a lot of people's my brain, a lot of people's brains, a lot of entrepreneurial entrepreneurs

brains don't work like that in this silo of I'm'm going to only do this, it doesn't really work in real life. It's what I'm saying. Yeah, well, I think that it is completely dependent upon the individual and how their brain works. Take no advice from somebody who says, here's how brains work and here's what you should do. Instead, why don't you say, let me take an assessment of how I work best

and then craft my day around that. So for example, I know that my sharpest thinking and my sharpest writing happens in the morning. Right, later on, I don't know, I'm just not a sharp. I got too many other things in my brain. It's hard to get the words out. So I will do my absolute best to schedule zero things between 9 a.m. and 12. I guard that time as preciously as I can.

Now, sometimes things will have to get through and that's fine. I don't deal with it. But I know that's what I'm going to do my writing. And then the rest of the day is when I'm going to do other things and I try not to force myself to switch between modes too often, particularly later in the day. So for example, like today, I'm talking to you, this is my second podcast, but like third or fourth thing where I was like on, right? Because I had like a meeting before this where I had was on video, I had to be on. And I like, I like stacking those things together because then I can just get my brain into the,

like, you're the animated guy who's going to talk a lot. I like offer things like that's my mode right now, right? And it's a lot harder to be in that mode and then go switch to like administrative tasks mode. And then like go back to being the animator. Like I would much rather just kind of stack it all together so that I'm using myself as efficiently as possible. I understand how I work and I'm building around it. I love that. So what are the kind of daily habits that you have that are non-negotiables? Do you have anything that kind of keep you on point? Like what time do you wake up at the

same time? Do you have a very particular morning routine? I would know you say you write between nine and 12 or you keep that kind of your, the writing portion of your day. Yeah, that's really it because every day requires so much of me. I don't have, you know, people tell, people talk about their like morning routines and I always think to myself,

do those people have small children? Probably not because I will tell you, as a father of a three year old and a seven year old, like a morning routine is not possible. I mean, we have now trained the children, like dogs to like not wake us up until 7 a.m. so that's great. So I'm here in Colorado,

where I'm talking to you right now over the summer and it's on like right near a lot of nice biking and hiking trails I try to like run out for half an hour before the kids have to get ready for camp and and do a ride doesn't happen every day But it feels really good when it does but no, you know, I I try to think of each day as a Individual project that I want to run as efficiently as possible, but every day doesn't have to be the same. That's funny. You say that first of all, I am very much about a morning routine and I have two kids,

seven and nine. Amazing. Yeah, and it's hard though, because the truth is you have to be malleable and flexible with a morning routine if you do have kids. It's not going to be exactly. I leave it kind of like Lucy Goosey, as long as I work out in the morning at this point and like, you know, have a lot of, drink my water.

I basically feel okay, like I'm sticking to it as much as possible, you know what I mean? Right, right, right. But, I do know, yeah, I do know by the way that if I, it's like around, if I haven't eaten breakfast by about 8.30, a brain fog sets in that will not go away the rest of the day.

Like that, the scariest part of my day is if my morning is so packed that 8.30 is come around and I haven't eaten breakfast and then I think of my little dammit. Like I'm gonna screw the entire day up because of this. So I'm really really mind-blowing. I'm just happy we've breakfast, by the way. I mean, it's the best meal of the day.

I think so, but like 99.9% of people come on this podcast they are all intermittent fasting, they're doing this, they're doing that. So like, could this very fatty and I'm like someone who loves breakfast and I, you know, I've tried it many times not like to kind of skip that meal and it just does not bode well for me or anybody around me. So that's crazy. I mean, look, I'm not a health coach, so don't listen to what I have to say. But what I know is not.

You're not. You're recipes so full of everything. A full of health coaching. I did spend a couple years working at Men's Health for what it's worth. I was going to say, right? You were at Men's Health for a while, so there you go. You can add that story.

Yeah, so I, right. So I asked a lot of celebrities for their workout tips. But I, I mean, I hear about intermittent fasting. Look at it. Like I'm a big believer in if it works for you, fantastic, but don't, what I, what I, like, really want people to not do is to hear of this stuff and think, oh my gosh, there is, there must be a better way. And I must, like, rearrange my life for this thing that feels like some kind of secret

because it may not be, you know, or fine, maybe intermittent fasting, it works for some people, and maybe it comes out of some period of time in which this is how we ate as people, but you know what, we also had two sleeps. Are you aware of that? There were people who used to, yeah, like,

pre, you know, so, I mean, if you rewind far enough, right? Obviously we have electricity before that, we have like gas in the home, which was actually quite dangerous. And before that, you had candles, which is like, in movies in which people are living in like medieval times, I was walking around with a candle,

but actually candles are extremely expensive. So most people couldn't afford them. So it was just dark. So for most of human history, someone down, it was dark. Really, candles were really expensive back then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah history someone down, it was dark. Really? Can't really really expense that back then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you are a platform for information. I gotta tell you through this book, there are so many stories from like, that you pulled

together. I'm like, the fact that matter of history you know is amazing. I, there's a reason for that, which I'll tell you in a second, but just a complete this thing, which is, which is, that's so anyway, so people people had people had two sleeps. It was called first sleep and second sleep and so so generally you go to sleep when the sun goes down and then you wake up in the middle of the night. This is a scientist hypothesized that this is the reason why sometimes you know you kind of like Have a little bit of consciousness in the middle of the night and you're like what time is it? I don't know. Let's not wake up and you're like fall back asleep, you know The hypothesis unproven, but hypothesis is that that's actually an echo of how

we used to sleep, which is that we didn't sleep through the night. We would have first sleep and there would be up for a little bit and we would, we would do some stuff. We would pray, uh, we would have sex, uh, we would, you know, whatever you do, whatever you can do in the dark. And then you'd go back to sleep and then you'd sleep until morning. Um, and, uh, yeah. So, but'd sleep until morning. And that's, yeah. So, but you don't see everybody doing that now, right?

Like that's not, that's not a, right, and the truth completely changed once there was available lighting and then suddenly there was like a night and night things to do in the nighttime that the idea of night life that they completely shifted the way in which we live our lives.

Anyway, the reason I, I'm really into history and I am is because, one, I think it's just important to know where we came from, but two often, we are living right now through our own story, like whether that's a personal story or a cultural story, and we don't know how it's gonna end, we can debate how it's gonna end, but there's no way to really know.

But if you go back far enough in history, you can see how the story ended. And so when you're trying to understand how do people navigate change, how do people introduce things that feel radical, how do people overcome panics, if you go back in time, you can see how the story ended, and you can draw lessons from it that can apply to today where if you're trying to talk about how something happens now it's only hypothetical and so I think it's really important to see like the full thing. That's true because it's about how do you, well your book also is about adapting, changing, having, you know, adapting to the new normal. Keep coming back, you got plenty of space!

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Vitamin water, zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of Glasso. By the way, what made you with all your projects that you're doing? What made you decide to write a book now? Like, why now about this? So it's funny. I, okay, so there are a couple of things to answer there to explain it. Number one, I have this podcast called Build for Tomorrow. Same name as the book, Build for Tomorrow. And the podcast Build for Tomorrow is very history-oriented. What I like to do is understand how change happens by looking back through history and seeing like what don't we understand about the things that we're talking about now,

what are we missing, how can we better understand the things that we are concerned about now, but also how can we see how change happened in the past and then feel better about our own changes. And so like that leads me in all sorts of crazy directions like deep diving into why America went through a national moral crisis, like a national moral crisis over teddy bears, 1907. Like schools were banning teddy bears, priests were preaching against teddy bears, right? Like if like Fox News and MSNBC were around in 1907, like Teddy bears would have been the topic of the day. And so it's like why? Why? Why did I have that? And so I mean, I can, I can, I will answer that for you, but I'm going to answer your original question first and then I'm going to go back because otherwise I'll never

answer the original question. So, um, so anyway, so I have this podcast of very interesting history and how change happens. And then I'm also, I've been observing through my work at Entrepreneur Magazine that the, um, the most successful people are the most adaptable. And so I had these two threads of like, changed through history and changed right now. And I'd been thinking for a while, what do I do with all of this? It's really, it feels useful and insightful

and it helps me with my own life. But like, what am I supposed to do with all this? And then the panda, and I'd been like kicking this around with a friend of mine named Matt, who is a book agent who is also just the dad of my son's best friend when he was four. And then the pandemic began and in April of 2020, Matt calls me up and he says, hey, you could think about doing a project about change.

Everybody in the world is going through change right now and they are going to for years and years to come. Now is the time to write a book about change. And I was like, oh my god, you're right. And sitting down and being forced to do it really helped me bring together all of these insights and things that I had learned and make it feel coherent and useful. Like sometimes the best thing that you can do for yourself is just give yourself a project because it will force you to be really clear about the purpose of the work that you're doing

and it will draw out the absolute best of it. Like I had all these ideas and stories but I didn't know really how they fit together until I was forced to do it and I forced myself to do it. You know, Matt and I worked on a proposal for the better part of a year that we sold it to Penguin Random House

and off to the races we'd go in. So anyway, that's why I did it because I had gathered all this stuff and I didn't know what to do with it and then the time came and the lesson there for anybody, I think, is do things without knowing how they're gonna pay off. Like do things without knowing how they're gonna pay off because at some point the opportunity will come for them to pay off. Because at some point, the opportunity will come

for them to pay off and you will be prepared. Like if Matt had called me and he was like, everyone's going through change, maybe you should think about doing something. And I was like, I don't know what to do because I haven't talked to anybody about this for the last five years, but I had. I had talked to people for the last five years.

So don't worry about just do it. Do it, do it, gather, follow the things that you find are useful, that you help you through the world, and I guarantee you that you will find a way in which that's useful for others. This is exactly why I really loved your book, because I thought it resonated with me, because so many of the things that you talk about

are things that my philosophy in life, and I think that a lot of people I speak to also feel the same way. And you do it in a way that's very palatable for people. I love with your stories and everything else. But you said something that you're welcome. What you're talking about, I agree 100%. Are you saying it's kind of like having transferable skills,

like you may not know at the time what you're doing, but those skills are going to be very beneficial later down the road, that you had no idea that that opportunity would even exist. But you did this and this and that that you got good at that then now you can you can use those towards whatever that other opportunity is. Yeah that's right. I think another way to think about it. I like the phrase transferable skills. Another way to think about it is you're setting yourself up for the zigzag payoff. Yes. I was going to say that and then put that in the book as a zigzag. Yeah, yeah,

it's a zigzag, right, which is like, you know, it's not a straight line. People think that they like have a goal and then they're just going to go and meet it. And it's like, it never works that way. Instead, what happens is that your path is something that when you look back on it, it makes sense because you know that like, well, I did this and I learned this and then that enabled me to do this thing over there. And then I did that and I met that person and then they were right but like To anybody else it looks chaotic. Yeah, it's like well, how did you do that? How did you start over here and then you did this thing and then you went? It doesn't make any sense but it does over the course

And so the thing that you need to do is it is enable this exact payoff and so Here's a I mean just sort of like an example that I give in the book is, so let's say, let's say this somebody is a regular listener of Habitson Hussle and they love podcasts. And, you know, nobody's asking them to start a podcast, but maybe you should consider it. Why? Well, all sorts of good reasons. Probably not, to be honest with you,

probably not because your new podcast is gonna be awesome. I mean, let's just be frank, right with you, probably not because your new podcast is gonna be awesome. I love this, just be frank, right? Like, probably not. Because there's literally more than a million podcasts out there, growing a podcast is super, super hard. And it's a skill that you have to learn, and you're not good at it initially. You know, it's funny, like everybody tries to do these conversation shows, but most people are bad interviewers, and most people are bad at being interviewed. And so it's easy to do it wrong.

But, okay, let's say you start a podcast and let's say you start a, let's say you love comedy podcasts despite being a haphazard. And hustle listener, you know, you're like, you know what I really love is like just like good old gaffaws. So, so you start a, you start a podcast. You're so quirky and cute though, I swear. You're like a character on to itself, I swear. So let's say you start a comedy podcast. I appreciate that. I just say things and people react. But you're also very bright and you retain so much information and which makes you a really interesting interview and someone that's like,

it's a pleasure talking to you. Not to interrupt you, but that's what's going through my head. You can interrupt me for praise all day. It's fine. So let's say you start a comedy podcast and it's a bad comedy podcast because most comedy podcasts are very bad. And so nobody listens to this podcast.

So maybe you think that's a failure, but then because you have purchased all this recording equipment and you've taught yourself some basics about audio editing, maybe some friend comes along and they're like, hey, I have a band. You have a microphone and some stuff. Can you record our demo? And you say, sure, I don't know how to do that, but I'll figure it out. And you do it and they're happy. And they tell their friends and also like other bands are contacting you. And they say, hey, can you refer to our stuff? And eventually, you're like, you know what,

I got a lot of people calling me, maybe I should move into a studio. So then you move into a studio, you rent some studio space, and people are coming in, and then eventually this thing is growing, and you've got a reputation that eventually say, you know what, I should start my own studio,

and now you started your own studio. So you started a crappy comedy podcast that nobody listened to, and it actually turned into a business doing something totally else. That's the zigzag podcast, this is zigzag pal, and will never, ever happen if you don't start the thing first, if you don't just do the thing without knowing what the ROI is. Did you create, did you come up with that whole zigzag, uh, kind of, uh, yeah, it just kind of name.

Yeah. I was just trying to, I mean, I remember sitting on the porch trying to think because my own career has been like that. And I was just trying to visualise it. Like, how do you, I found that people remember things best when you give it a name and you associate a story and a big idea with it. And so I was just trying to think, how do I communicate what this is? I kind of just pictured, it's like you're going this way and that way. I probably tried a couple different metaphors,

and then I realized, it's just a zigzag. That's what it is. It's a zigzag. Then once you know what that is, you can follow the logic, and you can see how one thing leads to another in a way that's crazy, but totally makes sense. Someone like you, though, in a way that's crazy, but totally makes sense.

So someone like you, though, would you say that you are, if you had to say one thing that like everything kind of comes from, is it like you're just a really great storyteller, communicator, a writer, I mean, they're all in the same area, right? Yeah. Is it, what would, like if someone said, hey, Jason, besides I'm the editor and chief of entrepreneur, what would you say your thing is? Because you're doing so much stuff. Yeah, so the thing that I think is I tell stories

in my own voice, like that's my line for myself. And I think of myself primarily as a storyteller, which is to say that my skill is to hear things and figure out how they can be best communicated. But I will tell you underneath all that, I actually think that my real core skill set is that I'm a pattern matcher. And I think that that's not unique to me. I think that we're all basically pattern matchers.

Like at our heart, the thing that makes people human is that we're really, really good pattern matchers. And it's just like some patterns come more naturally to people, to some people than others. So for example, the thing that I'm really good at is matching patterns related to communications. So I can, I can read, I was trying, I didn't know how to write a book. I never wrote a book. That's all the people in the world. Someone like you who was written for every magazine.

I mean, you're so different. Yeah, but it's totally different. Writing a book is completely different from writing a magazine story. It's completely different. And I was like, I don't know how to do this. So you know what I did is I started going through some books and I figured out what the pattern was.

Like what is this author doing on a chapter by chapter basis, on a micro and a macro. Not long ago, we were at entrepreneur, we were kind of by email, trying to work up some good marketing language for some banner ads that we were putting together, whatever, anyway, like, you know, it's not, I don't know anything about that,

I don't know banner ads. So what am I gonna do? Well, what I'm not gonna do is just sit there and like bang my head against the wall because it's not gonna come naturally to me. I know that I'm a pattern mattress. So what does that mean? That means that I go and I Google best banner ads

and I go and I go through like 50 of them and I see what the pattern is. What are people doing? And once I see enough of it, I know how to repeat it. And the same is true for podcasting. Like, you know, sort of listen to enough, I have a narrative, my podcast is like a narrative-produced podcast. Right, it's not a conversation show,

it's like this scripted thing. And so what did I do? I went and I listened to a bunch of them, and I was like, okay, I understand how to do it. And that's just, that's my pattern. Other people I think know how to, they've been in enough businesses that they understand really, really well how to solve particular business problems, right?

I talk to people who are like, my job or like my skill set is walking into a business that is hammering money and figuring out how to stop the bleeding and start growth. That is a very specific thing. And that means that that person's skill in pattern recognition is understanding what are the things that need to happen when you walk in, how do you identify problems, how do you start to solve those problems in this business. Everybody's got that. I think it's worth thinking about.

What are the patterns that you match? For me, it's communications, but for someone else, something else. Yeah. I like that pattern match, and that's a really good way of putting it also. So that's why you make that the whole story teller and you you're taking information. This is what the book does. And you make it that people understand what you're saying by because you're, you're creating like some kind of like premise around it in a way.

That's very palatable. Like I said. I, yeah. So here's what it's funny, because now I'm gonna tell you this thing, and then you're gonna listen for it, the whole rest of the conversation. So I came to realize that the key to any kind of speaking, whether it's on stage or it's talking to you right now, whatever it is.

The key is this theory that I came up with, which I call the theory of interlocking parts. I don't think this is in the book either. I don't know, I have too many of these things. It's not, I didn't see it, but I'm running it down. I don't think it's in there. It's the theory of interlocking parts. And here it is.

So to be a great speaker, what you need is to build a menu of like three to five minute interlocking parts in your head. What is an interlocking part? Well, it's three things. An interlocking part has three components. It has a name, like the theory of interlocking parts. It has a big idea.

And then it has ways to express that idea in story form. Generally, either I tell a story about myself learning to do something or I tell a story about somebody else learning to do something or I do both. So that's the interlocking part. And when you have enough of those in your head, then every time somebody is asking you a question, every time you are asking me a question or you're like not even asking me a question, you're just kind of reacting. What I'm doing in my head is I'm basically rifling through everything that I know and

figuring out which one best matches whatever you're talking about. And like, you know, whenever I'm on stage, and it comes time for, like, I have a talk that I give, it's like a 45 minute keynote, which is built around some of my, like, these interlocking parts, but I can either modular, I can like take one out, I can put another one in,

but then also when we do Q and A, people are asking me questions. As soon as somebody starts their question, I'm thinking, what is the answer that I have available? And the reason for that is because what I wanna do is give people the best, most coherent, most thoughtful material. And those are things that I've just worked out. I haven't practiced them, but I've just said them enough.

And they're interlocking parts, which means that they can just snap together in whatever order I need them to snap together. So at the very beginning of this conversation, you asked me something about time management, and I was like, time is a balloon, right? I know that, I came up with that a year ago. I like it. Every time somebody asks me about time management, I was like, time is a balloon.

And it's like, but it's a day, right? It works. It's got a big idea, and it's got a story, and it's just like, it works. So that's how I communicate. Yeah, no, it works. It does work. Have you done a TED talk yet? Not yet I communicate. Yeah, no, it works. It does work. Have you done a TED talk yet?

Not yet. Oh, okay. That should I? You should put that. Yeah, I did want. Yeah. I usually put it on your list. And I, you know, I have a book coming out also in a couple months or, yeah,

congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. And I'm not telling that I'm just telling you that because I know it's like a, writing a book is very, very, very, very different than writing an article or writing some type of like speech of some kind, right? Like, it's, it's, I don't know, I found it speaks extremely stressful and then anxiety written, but that's me personally, I don't know about you, but yeah, you know, but you're

much more, that's what you do, that's your part of what you're there. This is my area. Yeah, it wasn't that anxiety, you know, the know, the thing that gives me anxiety is launching the book. Oh, tell me about it. I know. That's the thing. I know. The greatest advice anyone ever gave me, which is totally true, is like marketing the book

starts basically the second that you start writing the book. Like you should be building your contact base of people who you're going to ask for favors for years in advance. Years in advance. This is not a thing where you reach out to everybody three weeks before book launch. Like no, no, no, no, no. I know, I'm looking and you have,

I'm looking at your testimonials or your Gary Vee as your quote, usually my guy, sorry, my publisher wants four or five really good ones too, just on that part. And then of course the pre-order sales, it's all in the pre-order sales, My guy, sorry, my publisher wants four or five really good ones too, you know, like just on that part. And then of course the pre-order sales, it's all in the pre-order sales, that's just, you know, there's so much that people don't, like under the hood, that people don't really understand about it unless you're doing it.

And it's, you're right, it's extremely, that part is extremely stressful. I am incredibly mindful and patient about how I develop relationships with people and what I ask them for. I will ask for something once every five to ten years. I don't ask because when I want it to matter, I want it to really matter. I have known Gary a very long time and frankly given him a lot of press, I mean he's been in an entrepreneur quite a lot. I deserve it, deservedly so. It's not a favor. People love Gary, but I know Gary, you know, and I've never asked him for a single thing and the reason for that was because I know Gary, people ask Gary for, Gary must just, he's just must be inundated with requests for everything.

And so I am only going to ask Gary for something, I'm going to ask Gary for something like once, and it's going to really matter. And what I asked him for was to blur the book and also to be on his podcast. And that's it. You know, I have people who will ask me for, like, random people will DM, hey, can you comment on this LinkedIn post? It's like, dude, that's your ask.

Like, this is such a bad ask. Right. I think that's a very good point. Yeah, it's, I believe I'm really not into transactional things. I think that you build relationships and those relationships just sort of have a natural like given flow to them. But that also, you know, everyone's in a while you ask somebody for like a favor to kind of go out, go do something a little bit extra for you.

And it is my belief that if you focus on relationships first, such that nobody feels like you're asking any, like the reason you know them is because you wanna ask them something. Like that, people hate that, right? But if you just develop a nice relationship, then I think the thing that you just need to do next is just be really mindful of their time and their capacity

and just like make sure that the interactions that you have are meaningful and that you're giving more than you're asking. And in return, you'll basically get all the help that you want. I mean, listen, it's easy for someone like you to say, right, when you also are the editor-in-chief of a big magazine or media, media online,

whatever you wanna call it, where at the end of the day, or a magazine or media, media online, whatever you wanna call it, where at the end of the day, it behooves people to also do that with you, right? Because it would not be smart if they have something that they're launching or they wanna be, like, you know, what would you say to a regular person?

When I say a regular person who doesn't have, who's in charge of a media company or a magazine where it's like in someone's best interest also to be nice to you, right? So yeah, I would say you make, I mean, look, you make a great point because people want things from me and therefore I have this leverage, which I, which I'm really careful not to use. Yeah, really. It's hard though. Because that's what you are. not to use. Yeah really it's hard though because I know I know that I could I could I could I could just

email a ton of random CEOs and publicists and whatever and basically say hey we'll use support the book and they're gonna feel like they have to they're gonna feel obligated to do it. I do not want that because that's not fair. It's also an inappropriate usage of the position that I have. So the only people that I've reached out to to help me with the book, and yes, I know a lot of high-profile people because I'm in the position that I'm in. The only people that I've reached out to are people who I've developed real relationships with, who I feel confident, know that I'm not asking them something

as a way to lord over that if you don't do this for me, then you're not gonna get something that you want. I don't ever want that. I'd like, because here's the thing, life is long and, or hopefully it is. And like, what you definitely don't wanna do is play all of your cards all at once. Right?

I don't want to, yeah, I could probably abuse my position and sell more books, but then I'm also just like this jerk that people don't feel good about, and that's not gonna serve me well or serve the brand well. And then like both me and entrepreneur should, you know, march for, march along in time. Like, so, so instead what I do is I just be, I'm really, really careful about it.

Now, what should the person, somebody do if they don't have the kind of access that I do? I think the answer is step back and think what kind of value you do have to others because I guarantee you that you have plenty. I remember talking to Swim and Shira, who started Goody Girl Cookies, this line of gluten-free cookies, you can find them basically anywhere. And she didn't know how to run a CPG company

when she started out. And so she was like, what do I have? And the answer is that she used to be a publicist. So she understands marketing and PR, and a lot of people don't understand that, and that's pretty valuable. And she wasn't like a celebrity publicist. She didn't have like, it wasn't like she was able

to knock on every door and just have it swing wide open. But when she would reach out to people and be like, hey, can you explain to me how manufacturing works? And I know your time is valuable, so what I have to offer you is that if you need some help conceptualizing your PR strategy, that's the thing I know I thought about, and I'd be happy to help you.

And Dora's opened, like she just basically, she helped people and they helped her. It was an exchange of information, and it was really valuable. I guarantee that you listening now, you have something, you know something, you have access to something, whatever it is, you have something that other people want. You are an expert in something that other people are not an expert in. And that is useful and valuable. And the more that you leverage that in a non-gross way, but are you just like, let's do an exchange of value here, the

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go what are you waiting for? You also talk about in your book, you know, people should be doing like you did this. So you said like what do you have? What do you need and what's available? Right? Yeah. And I think right. And I think that's a very like having these like systems in place for anybody to really kind of like work to help them get to the next place is very, I think, is super important and helpful. Yeah. So I'll explain what that is, what I have, what I need and what's available. So I was surprised that I knew that or I had that written down. I love that you know, it's so funny that you pulled that out because I was doing the I was doing the audiobook of the book and um and so which means you sit down in a studio for three

days and you use your book and a director is in your ear being like do it again. Pillow talk, Pillow talk that's what my director kept saying. Pillow talk, right, because I was going too fast and I was too loud. Pillow talk. So, so anyway, like I got to that part, which I had written down, tried to forgotten that I wrote down. And I was reading it and I was like, that's a real, I should say that more. Like I wrote it, but I don't usually say it. Like it's not a thing that usually comes up in interviews. I have, I haven't built it into any talks. I really like that thing. And so then I can't, I wrote it, but I don't usually say it. Like, it's not a thing that usually comes up in interviews. I haven't built it into any talks.

I really like that thing. And so then I wrote it down. I wrote it down, I was like, use it. Like, use what I have, what I need, what's available. And so I have over the last month, like, tried to work it in more because I just really like it. So, but you're the first person to just

yank it out of the book and ask me about it. So that is validation. So you're appreacinating. I just thought, when I said it out loud. Your eyes kind of like lighted, like lit up a little bit. So I had to like ask you about that. You're like, oh, it's great. I read the book.

Just something. No, I, I, at this point, I believe you read the book. So, okay, so here's, here's the story. I started my career at a tiny newspaper in North Central Massachusetts. I really hated it. Because it just, it wasn't what I wanted to do, wasn't that exciting to me. I had these ambitions of doing big things.

I didn't know how to get there. I didn't have the skills that I wanted that I needed. As a result, here I was sitting at this job that I didn't really love. I was trying to figure out how to get out of here and how do I build my career and build towards something that I that matches my ambitions And and by the way, I don't know if you can hear in the background But like it is literally impossible to escape the sound of a lawnmower. You just cannot escape it Yeah, I'm here a little bit, but that's okay here a little bit. Okay. Well, I apologize for that It doesn't just like it's like aren't the suburbs supposed to. In the suburbs. I hear a little bit, but that's okay. You hear a little bit, okay, well I apologize for that.

I just, like, it's like, aren't the suburbs supposed to be quiet? In the suburbs. That's fine. I'm so entrenched in this conversation, it's just. Good. I appreciate it. So, okay, so anyways, so here I am and I'm looking at my situation and I break it down into these three categories, which I think are useful to anybody as they try to assess

where they are in anything. So, okay, what do I have? What do I need? What's available? What do I have? What I have is a job at a very tiny newspaper. And my colleagues are all people who are at the very beginning of their career as well. And we have a fairly inexperienced editor who's not really helpful.

So, I'm not learning and growing. What do I need? Well, I need the opposite of that. beginning of their career as well, and we have a fairly inexperienced editor who's not really helpful. So I'm not learning and growing. What do I need? Well, I need the opposite of that. I need to learn and grow. I need to have access to really talented and experienced editors and writers who I can learn from and who can also help me develop more of a body of work so that I can go convince people that I can work at a higher level.

Okay, great. Now here's the most important one. What's available? The thing is that we don't want to fantasize about what's available, right? What's available is not, well, I'll go bang on some doors and somebody, right like, no, you won't.

And nobody's gonna answer. So what literally is available? What could you do right now? Not in some is available? Like what could you do right now? Not in some fantasy land, like what could you do right now? And the answer for me in my line of work was freelance. In media, you may not know this, but in media, the people who write for publications are generally, they're either on staff or they're freelancers.

And freelancers are, they're independent contractors who generally work on a one-off story basis. It's a deeply inefficient system, but I could come up with an idea and I could pitch that idea to an editor. And if the editor likes it, then they will assign it to me and I'll get a contract for that one story and then I'll write that one story. And that's a way in which I could gain access to publications that simply wouldn't hire me, but maybe if I could convince them that my one idea is good, then they'll take it. So that's what I did.

I started by freelance, while I was working that job in a venture, I quit that job actually and I sat in my bedroom in holding Massachusetts, a dumpy apartment next to a graveyard, cost me 500 bucks a month to live there. And I called pitched, I called pitched, and after nine months I got a story in the Washington Post and the Boston Globe and Associated Press and some other places and this was what helped me grow my career.

And I attributed all to just being extremely realistic about what I have, what I need, and what's available. And you had a nice guy at New York Times who was doing some email exchanges with you. And by the way, you still at the New York Times, did you ever find out? No, he has long since retired. Yeah, Alan Siegel. Yeah. I had emailed him for some reason or another. And just to try to get on his radar, he was like a legendary editor at the New York Times

and I'm this kid working at a tiny newspaper. And I made reference to that one day, I like to work with the New York Times and he wrote me back. I think it was a joke, but it was basically like, well, I'll be long gone by then, right? And I don't think he was being being spirited, but it definitely hit me hard that I was like, oh man, this guy sees me as so far away

from being able to work at the New York Times that going to guys like him and just trying to impress them is not gonna get me anywhere. Right, right, right. Because I just look like a kid with no experience. So I can't just go and be like, Alan, Seagull, you know, like instead what I have to do is I have to literally get experience. And the only way to do that,

I mean look there was another way to do it. You know what the other way to do it was? What? What I could have done is I could have stayed at that small newspaper job for like another year. And then I could have taken a that small newspaper job for another year, and then I could have taken a slightly larger newspaper job and been there for two years. And I could have taken a...

And I could have liked, do do do do do do do, work my way like all the way up. And I, that's fine if that's your pet, you know, like lots of people do that. It wasn't for me. I was too impatient and I was too ambitious and I knew I needed to skip steps. And so I had to start thinking, well, how do I skip those steps? How did you ever end up writing for the New York Times like even a freelance piece or anything?

I've written, yes, I've written for the New York Times twice. Once was during that time when I was young and I was freelancing, I ended up writing this like weird piece about a strong man competitions for the New York Times Sports section. And then a couple of years ago, I had a weird alternate life for a little bit as the world's foremost selfie expert. Because I had started in 2013, I had started these,

I don't know if you remember single topic tumblers, do you remember single topic tumblers? No, what is it? What is it? So Tumblr, which I mean Tumblr still exists, but it doesn't have the cultural weight that it does. Oh, Tumblr, like it's a social media app or something, right? Yeah, it's UMBLR, yeah, yeah, yeah.

What is it though? I don't know what it is. Oh, it's a micro blogging platform. So, you know, it's basically like, it's basically a blog, but it's a micro blogging platform. So, you know, it's basically like, it's basically a blog, but it has a different format in any way. So, but around 2013, these things started to blow up

called single topic tumblers. And so what people would do is they would just, they'd create a tumbler devoted to like one extremely niche thing that they would repeat over and over again. So for example, there was one of the really popular ones at the time was called Women crying while eating salad and it was just it was just a collection of all the stock photography somebody could find of women crying while eating salad because there's a lot of it Yeah, it's a ton of it

I It's really so high. I don't know the answer to that. He's like, guess it was a reason, it's a useful image. So, but that's why it was funny, right? Yeah. You know, like there's another one, there was another one also on the theme of crying, which was called, Reasons My Son Is Crying. And it was just, it would just be like a photo,

it was this guy who just kept taking photos of his son every time he would like be screaming. You know,'s this guy who just kept taking photos of his son every time he would be screaming. The kid is like two years old, right? And it would just be like, because he got the wrong kind of pasta or whatever. And so anyway, so I created, this is so far off topic, but I created this Tumblr called Selfies It Serious Places.

It was a collection I just kind of scoured, Twitter, and Instagram, and I found selfies that teenagers had posted in just sort of like deeply inappropriate places for selfies, like in front of the Anne Frank House and the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin and the 9-11 Memorial. And so I just collected them and it was so busy serious places.tumbler.com. And that's hilarious. Jason, this is the best part of the interview. So it keeps going. So I made it and it was the weirdest thing. I made it and it like, I just, so I made it and I, and it was the weirdest thing. I made it and I hit publish on it.

And then I like walked away from my desk. I was working a fast company at the time. And I walked away from my desk and I came back an hour later and this writer from Business Insider had found it and written a story on it and it was just exploding. And, and you know, there was just like international outrage over these kids

doing this. And so then I started getting calls from reporters around the world, right? Like the BBC called me an ABC Australia. And like it showed up on like Good Morning America. And so I then I had to start like I had to have something to say about this. I hadn't really had anything to say about it. But so I came up with a kind of line, which was basically, I was like, look, I don't think that these kids are, I don't think that these kids are like ill-meaning, and I don't think this is an indictment of a generation. But I do think it's sort of an interesting insight into how

we've developed these habits of capturing ourselves in a particular way. And we haven't really thought through yet like where those habits are and are not appropriate. And it's like an interesting moment in time. So true though. And yeah, and so anyway, so then I created a second one called Selfies at Funerals.

And that one, that one, like that was the one that really blew up. Like Weird Al Yankovic put it in a song. It was everywhere. When I decided to shut it down, the guardian literally emailed me and asked me to write about it. Anyway, then I was getting more calls and then I did a third one called Selfies with Homeless People, which I thought was actually very, like those photos were mean-spirited.

Anyway, I don't care. I don't even care. It's amazing. I love worried, by the way. I told you this. I don't even care. It's amazing. I love it. Open the New York Times.

Oh, right, for the New York Times. So I became the selfie expert for a long time. So people would call me for years. People would call me, and they would, and whenever they would be doing a story about selfies, right? Like the New York Times, in fact, had called me at one point. They're like, we're doing a story on selfies.

And so we would like your commentary, and people would interview me. And so the times at one point ran a story about an Earth selfie. It was a satellite that had gone out into space and like turned around and taken a photo of Earth. And so I started tweeting at the times about how that's not a selfie. Because that's not a selfie. That's a photo. Yeah.

This is a different thing to selfie in a photo. And so, and then like me and the science reporter at the New York Times got into like a little bit of a Twitter spat over it. And then the Washington Post, like, Ombudsman wrote about it. And then the Washington Post, like, Ambudzman wrote about it. And then I decided, you know, I'm gonna write a piece called,

is this a selfie, which explores whether or not things are selfies and submit it to the New York Times. I just see what happens. Yes. So I did it, they ran it. No way, are you serious? Yeah, you can Google it now. Is this a selfie, Jason Fyfe, for New York Times?

So, yeah. That is hilarious, Jason. I haven't looked at it in a long time, but here I'll pull it up right now So in this is selfie ran in 2015 And so here's where here's her here's our wet. It's just a it's just a Q&A So here it is I held a camera and took a photo of myself So that's that's like that it's it goes back and forth very so it's like that I held a camera and took a photo of myself. So that's like, it goes back and forth. Very so it's like that. I held a camera and took a photo of myself. That is a selfie.

I took a photo of myself and two friends. That is a selfie, also called a groupie. I set the self-timer on a camera, a step back five feet, and it took my photo. That's in the selfie family, but it isn't a pure selfie. Consider it a self-portrait. I took a photo of a slice of pizza and called it a pizza selfie. Are you in the photo with the pizza? No, it is just of the pizza, not a selfie. And it just kind of goes

on like that for a long time. Anyway, they ran it. You are. I mean, you are hysterical. I'm like, I honestly, I have to say you are me. I just, I get such a kick out of you. I can't even. Okay, no, I mean, honestly, that story is like gold. Gold. I mean, yeah, what happens when you just like do things? But yeah, it's true. But okay, so let me ask you a question. I'm like getting off track for a second, but I want to,

okay, first of all, to that whole selfie thing or what our generation, why then don't you like, I saw in the book, woman from MIT she did a Sure, yeah about the documentary people don't people want to document versus of course Right live, but you didn't like it, but isn't like heard all you don't like her. Hey, why because isn't that kind of isn't that accurate though? Like the whole story with like a Z's that were And sorry, yeah, sorry the truth the matter is people like had no interest in talking to him. They just wanted to have that picture for their own like memory, right?

Right. Right. So, okay. So, let me let me fill in what you're talking about. Yeah. So, Sherry Terkel is a professor at MIT who has written four billion books about how technology is destroying us. And her argument is basically always the same, which is like, new technology has torn us apart. We don't know how to communicate with each other anymore. We don't have conversations. We are only interested in digital interaction.

And- We're going to have to socialize. Right, and I really, really just don't like that stuff. I really don't like it. And the reason is because I just don't think that stuff. I really don't like it. And the reason is because I just don't think that it's smart and true. Has new technology kind of created different modes of communication and has it shifted our habits?

Yeah, of course it has. But that doesn't mean that there was only one way in which we could interact and that we've lost it like you've biting the apple and getting kicked out of, right? Like, there was this guy who I had a really fascinating conversation with, his name is Lee Rainey, and he's the head of the Pew Internet Research Center

or something, I'm sure I got that a little bit wrong, but anyway, Pew is a very established, reputable name. And Lee made this really interesting point to me, which was he's like, look, a generation ago, a sign of intelligence was the ability to retain and recall lots of information. And today, a sign of intelligence is the ability to find and process information very quickly. Because we don't need to retain as much of it anymore because we have it at our fingertips. And so, like, is there one better, is one worse?

No, it's just different. It's just different. It's different needs for a different time. And that's how I feel about a lot of the shifts that happen with technology. That's not to say that people don't develop unhealthy habits. Of course they do. It's not to say that bad things can't happen online. Of course they can. But like, let's not think that there's only one way of doing things and then look at every new thing through the lens of the old thing. So, so, so, Sherry, um, Sher. So, that's the thing that drives me crazy, is because I think that what Sherry is seeing is people communicating with each other in new ways,

and then she is creating a valued judgment that these new ways of creating are worse than the old way of communicating, or worse than the old ways of communicating, and therefore we have lost something that we can never gain back. And I just don't think that it works that way have lost something that we can never gain back. And I just don't think that it works that way.

I think that we are constantly evolving. If you go back through time, people have the same concerns about the telephone. Oh, now there's a telephone. Nobody will ever come over to your house. Nobody will ever see each other in person because now they can have the telephone. And like, no, no. Instead what happened is that we call people sometimes when that's convenient and we see people sometimes when that's convenient and enjoy.

We do both. It's okay. And so, and so anyway, the disease on sorry story just like I just I mean like I when I was reading that the New York Times I wanted to scream. So so Sherry wrote this this opinion piece in the New York Times in which she's it was about like the death of conversation. It was called it was called the documented life and about how everything is now about being documented. And so she, by the way, like, I, oh, that's a question. Let's find out the documented life. Before after his scandal.

Oh, it was before, it was before his scandal. Yeah. So it was before his scandal. This was in 2013. Oh, yeah. When you're kind of doing your selfie stuff. Yeah, same time. So, so she, okay. So she tells this story of her in a season,

sorry, the comedian who of course, his name, it doesn't mean what it used to because there was this whole, me too thing, but anyway, but back then he's just a beloved comedian and they're walking there, though. He is. He's getting back there, yeah. And so he and Sherry Terkel are walking around L.A. and fans keep coming up to them. And Sherry describes how fans would come up to him and he would, okay, I just pulled

it up so that I could just read directly from her. So people approached him every few minutes not to ask for an autograph, but to demand a photo, which I know in the book, just think about the the judgment value like the value judgment there and the difference between ask for a photo and demand or ask for an autograph and demand a photo to ask for an autograph she thinks that that's a perfectly natural thing because it's old and demand a photo that's because it's new and dirty so okay mr. and sorry is gracious to his fans he explained that instead of a photograph he would offer a conversation he inquired about their taste in music, what they liked about his performances, his standup,

his sitcom, Parks and Recreation. His fans were modified, but they were rarely happy. They had to walk away with nothing on their phones. Now, Sherry describes that as just like a condemnation of a generation, right? Like these people didn't want an actual human interaction, all they wanted was something on their phones. And like the point I wanted to make, no, the point I did make in the book is like, that's a

perfect example of actually a completely different thing, right? Which is, and that's completely different thing is that like, not every interaction is the same, nor should we expect it to be the same. Because what those people were doing when they came up to a disease is they weren't looking for a meaningful interaction with a's for all sorts of reasons. For one, they're probably very nervous in front of him. And to like, look at this, he inquired about their taste and music, what they liked about his performances. Could you imagine meeting a celebrity? So awkward. Could you imagine meeting a celebrity you love? And they're like, oh, tell me what you like about my performance. I wouldn't know

what to say to that. That's so awkward. And so, and they also probably feel like Aziz is busy. He doesn't, why, I don't want to take up that much of his time. Like, they, they want to interact with Aziz to get a photo, to share with their friends because they want to interact with their friends, right? That's the thing. That's what Sherry's missing. Sherry thinks that the interaction is about the fan and Aziz, and it's not.

The interaction is actually about the fan with the fans' friends, and the fan wants something to show the friends that they can have a fun time together. Aziz is simply a participant in that, and so they completely got it wrong. They were looking at this experience from an old lens, and that I think is damaging. Because when we do that, we start to condemn all sorts of things, and we say, oh, well, because people are trying to take photos with each other, they're like, now they don't know how to communicate. And that is so stupid. That's just a misunderstanding of how progress happens. And I think that it doesn't help us build good things for ourselves and build good habits for ourselves.

No, I felt your anger when I read it in the book. You know what I mean? It was like visceral, you know? Like, that's how you are now. Yeah. Well, it motivates me. It drives me crazy. I mean, whether you're doing intents

to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into warrior one in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. We're inhaling and long exhale. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today.

Peloton app available through free tier, or paid subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Okay, so why the hell, what else are you, like since you have this ability, you said you were writing TV shows or you're doing, what are you doing? What do you mean you're writing TV shows? What kind of shows? Some developing TV shows.

So television development is a ridiculous process. We're basically, you, I know a lot about it, but tell everyone, I said, yeah, you know about it. Okay, so you like, you basically, you work with a producer and you have an idea. And they're like, this is really interesting. They have a million phone calls.

And you put together this deck. And then you have a whole bunch of calls with other people. As people like to joke, there's never a bad meeting in Hollywood. So everyone's like, this I'm so excited about this. So great. And then after all that this, so great. And then, you know, and then, like after all that work, nothing happens, right? So, but-

You know that this podcast was supposed to be a TV show? Oh, it did not know that. No. That's a whole other story going on. Yeah, so anyway. You gotta get out of the book. I'm kidding. So, I will read all about it.

So, anyway, I'm doing that. I find it to be really fun, because it's like, as long as you go into it knowing that you're basically buying lottery tickets, right? Like you're gonna have conversations with really accomplished people who have made shows that you know and they're smart and you throw out an idea and they're like, that's really interesting

and then they ask you a question that you hadn't thought of at all. And, and then you look for- Are you know by someone or are you like independently doing this? Like what is it about that? No, I'm just doing it. I'm just doing it independently. Like I'm doing it independently with a bunch of different producers

because I just have a bunch of different connections. And so, so you're kind of like writing an idea with some producer, whoever, and then you're gonna pick it basically. So, right, so like a, here's a, like a, It was an example that you could talk about. Yeah, an example. So I can't tell you like specific story things,

because I don't, I at what point, any of this is supposed to be public, I don't know. So I'll just give you can talk about. Yeah, an example. So I can't tell you like specific story things, because I don't, I, at what point, like any of this is supposed to be public, I don't know. So I'll just give you like broad strokes. So that's a just all I would term too. I know. It's terrible. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I know. Can't somebody pay me already? I'm using the language. So, so anyway, so like a friend of mine who, a hit on HBO Max. And now he's got a first look deal with a network and he's got a producing partner that has made a whole bunch of very big shows

you've heard of. He reached out to me and he was like, hey, do you have any ideas for television shows? And I was like, boy, do I. And so then I just sent him a bunch of ideas. And they really liked one. And so then we have a whole bunch of calls and emails where we're refining it and now we're working through the deck and then eventually we'll take it out and try to sell it.

So it's like, it's that. I'm doing it. It's like a lot of that. And I have a talent agent and I'm working with a whole bunch of different people. I'm dabbing. I'm at APA. Okay. So my goldberg had Hidden Myer, shout out. And yeah, it's fun.

It's such a side to the side to the side hustle, but the way I see it is like, all that's required right now is me throwing out ideas, which to me is just like the easiest thing in the world. And then, like kicking them around in conversation, which is fun. Why not? Let's do it.

Now, who's your favorite person you've ever interviewed? Oh, boy. I don't know the answer to that. Just the first person comes to your head. Don't even think about it. Just like the first person that comes to your head. OK. The first person that comes to my head

is Josh Holloway from Lost. And the reason for that was because, so I've interviewed, like, while at Entrepreneur, I've interviewed so many inspirational people, and they've told me so many inspirational things, and I can repeat them all, and I can tell you that Ryan Reynolds

told me that in order to be good as something you have to be willing to be bad, and Malcolm Gladwell said that self-conceptions are powerfully limiting, and like, I love all this stuff. But if you're just gonna ask me, yes, if you're just gonna ask me like, who was just like my favorite?

Well, the answer is, when I was at Men's Health, and I was 28, and this was my first National Magazine job, and I was an enormous lost fan. Remember lost, like the show. Of course, I know John Holloway, yes. Yeah, and then we were gonna put Josh Holloway, who played Sawyer on Lost, we were going to put him on the cover and the team there knew that I was like the Lost Obsessive on

staff. So they said, do you want to fly to Hawaii where Lost is filmed and sit down with Josh Holloway, they're filming the final season right now, and profile him for the magazine. And I don't even know if I'd written a celebrity profile at that point. And I was like, yes, of course I want to do that. And so I got on a plane, and I flew to Hawaii,

and Josh and I sat down and had some beers on the beach. And we had, I still have this. We had, so the Kona is the local beer, right? This is the Hawaiian beer. And underneath the cap, when you pop open the Kona is the local beer, right? Is the Hawaiian beer. And underneath the cap, like when you pop open a Kona bottle, underneath the cap is a word in English. It's sort of like a fortune cookie where they have the word in English and then have to

try and use. So they have that, but for, I'm embarrassed that I don't know whatever the native Hawaiian language, which I'm embarrassed that I shouldn't have the the, whatever the native Hawaiian language, which I'm embarrassed that I shouldn't have the answer or what the word to that is. But anyway, so after Josh left, we had a great conversation. He was so nice. I really liked him. And then he took off and we were cleaning up me in the team. And I picked up the bottle cap from our drinks and I looked at it and the

word that was being translated was lost. And I was like, oh, really? So I have that bottle cap still, like I kept that bottle cap. That's a such a good story. That is a really good story. So would you say who would be the one person you have not interviewed that you want to? I don't have a good answer that people ask me that and the reason is because I have interviewed enough people who I just didn't know anything about because I'm not actually that pop culture focused. I loved loss but I don't really know that much about pop culture.

That I interview people like like I just interviewed Norman Reedus from who's like the star of the Walking Dead for the magazine. I don't know either. I don't watch the Walking Dead, so I wasn't familiar with him at all. I loved him. He was so nice and thoughtful,

and we had a great conversation that went on and on and on. At the end, he was like, this is like a therapy session. And I loved him, but I would have never, he would have ever put his name down on a list to interview because I don't watch the Walking Dead. Right.

So, to me, I don't know. There are lots of interesting people out there. The most interesting people are probably the ones I've never heard of. Yeah, I agree, by the way. It's always the people that I least expect that, like I never, you know, that I have the best conversations with.

And it's the people that have the high profile that I was like, oh my God, how was it to, you know, how amazing it was to, but, you know, sit there and talk to them. And I'm like, you know, like, I kind of like going in with, like, feeling like there are no stakes because I don't have an emotional investment in this person, you know, like, right. I've interviewed people who I, who's like work, I really, really loved, or who I was just a fan of. I grew up in Miami Heat Fan, because I lived in South Florida.

So Chris Bosh, but Dwayne Wade was first. I interviewed Dwayne Wade, he was the first guy I interviewed at Men's Health, and so I was like really nervous to do that, and he was really great. But so there are those people, but you know, a lot of these people are, like maybe I know their names,

but I'm not that invested. Like Jimmy Fallon, I interviewed Jimmy Fallon. I, you know, like spent time in his office. I loved Jimmy, he was so great. I don't stay up and watch late night TV. You know, like I don't watch the tonight show, but I loved him, he was so, so wonderful. So yeah, you just never know.

Are you, um, okay, that's fair. Who do you, who picks the covers? Are you, are you the one who picks the covers? I'm me and me and others, you know, I'm in a sort of, like a team effort. And then ultimately, I mean, Bill, who you, who you know is the president of entrepreneur. He and, he and Ryan, the CEO have kind of final sign-off on who goes on the cover, but, you know, I mean, Bill, who you know is the president of entrepreneur, he and he and Ryan, the CEO,

have kind of final sign off on who goes on the cover. But, you know, I generally, I'm generally the one having conversations and scouting ideas and then I'll take it to Bill and I'll be like, I think that we should do this. And, you know, he'll say, that sounds great or he'll say, I don't know. And so, yeah, but it's off me. And then I do a lot of the interviews, not all of them, but I do a lot of them. I was going to say, do you do most, who else does them besides you? I feel like you do most of them.

I do a lot of them. Do you pick who you want to do or they just say, you're doing this one? Yeah. No, I mean, you know, editor-in-chief prerogative, I can kind of clean what up what I want. But so I mean, generally we keep it in-house. So, Francis, our deputy editor does, keep it in house. So Francis, our deputy editor does, you know, does some Liz, who's a contributing editor, does some, and then occasionally we'll bring in a freelancer if all three of us are like too busy or something. But yeah, we try to keep it in house. By the way, so I don't know what your time is like, this has gone over an hour, but I mean, I've got like a bazillion other questions for you. I appreciate that. I'm just gonna say that the book is called Build for Tomorrow. And as I'm sure you can tell, Jason is just,

he's like a wealth of information. You got great perspective and you're also great on social media. Just tell people that and then we can wrap it up and... Sure. So yeah, first of all, thanks. This is so fun. Second, I promise that I was gonna tell the teddy bear story and then we never did that. So I'll get in the book. I guess it's in the book because we didn't get to it. So blame you.

You didn't blame me. Blame your, blame your host. Not your guest. Yeah. Yeah. And then number three is you can find the book wherever you find books. If you can't think of a place where books are sold, which you know maybe you're having a memory lapse, then jasonfifer.com slash book is a good place. Otherwise, yeah, you can find me on social at hayfifer on Instagram. I'm also, we're TikTok, which I'm trying to get more into. And I'm also just very active on LinkedIn.

You're just very active on LinkedIn. Yeah, super active. Yeah, it's a great community. It is actually on LinkedIn. You're just a very active on LinkedIn. Yeah, super active. Yeah, it's a great community. It is actually. I think you're just awesome. Thank you. We're going to schedule another one. We're doing part two for sure.

Okay, great. Then maybe I'll tell the Teddy Bear story then. That's it. We'll kick it off. I love it. Okay, don't hang up, but we're saying goodbye. So bye. Thank you. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network.

I'm Holla Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young & Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. Each week, we dive into a new topic like the art of side hustles, how to level up your influence and persuasion and goal setting. I interview A-List guests on Young & Profiting.

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