Habits and Hustle - Episode 215: Gail Federici - Building a $400 MILLION beauty care empire

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

Gail Federici was the co-founder and CEO of the iconic brand John Frieda and has leveraged her experience to build her latest venture, Color Wow, a professional hair-care line geared towards color-treated hair. Gail has always strived to have break throughs in the beauty industry and has zero interest in ever following a path paved by another creator. At John Frieda, Gail was the first to design products that combatted frizz. Eventually selling the business for over $450 million long before beauty acquisitions were a common thing. After a couple years, Gail eventually launched Color Wow, which is a collection of problem-solving products geared towards colored hair. In a wide - ranging interview together, we talk about her life before her success as an entrepreneur and being in the music industry to how she came to launch a business of her own. Gail also shares how being a mother was a perspective shift for her and drove a lot of her future success. Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail] Find out Jen’s secret to getting anything you want out of life Go to athleticgreens.com/HABITS. and get a free 1-year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/jennifer and get on your way to being your best self. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits in Hustle. Crescent. Your background's interesting to me because you are obviously a maven and a legend in the hair world, but you also were in the music world. Yes, because I love music. And when we sold the company, I wasn't ready to sell.

I mean, they just gave us an offer that I felt it would be irresponsible, but we weren't looking to sell. And we just had to take it, because it would have been insane. And we were kind of at a loss. I mean, it wasn't something we planned. And during the last few years of John Frieda, we launched a line, Sheer Blonde. And my daughters had blonde hair, and they photographed really well.

And unlike, they were with Ford because my sister brought them there, but they were in school. They didn't really model much. They didn't like it anyway, but they loved to sing. And they didn't care about their hair like a model. They didn't have to keep it the same. And so, because they photographed well, we cut their hair. Sally Hershberger cut their hair into these great styles. And we did a music video with them with Dave Myers, who

won every single MTV award for his videos with Pink and a million other, everybody that was anything he was doing their videos. And we did a video with him for Sheer Blonde the line. And the girls love to write, they loved to sing. And once we sold the company, we thought, what are we going to do? My husband plays guitar and sings, but he was in sales, never was famous. But music was always around us.

So I thought, well, why not? Like people were interested in the girls as singers, but they were like 17 or something at the time. And John Fried is brother had a building in London that housed a bunch of studios and things. So I thought, let's go into the music business. You know, I thought I was just going to be fun. And I always like to put shows on and do creative things. And so we had the girls and we set them up

with different producers and they were writing. And then once they had a lot of material together, we, I said to them, who would you love to work with? Let's see if we can reach them. And they wanted to work with Dallas Austin, who was in Atlanta. And he had done TLC's album and it's Michael Jackson, he worked with everybody. And he did the Pink Miss Understood album. Anyway, so we wound up being able to, they did record. They

weren't allowed to eye with him Connecticut. We started a little music business and signed another artist, Tio Cruz, who I don't know if you know who he is, but I do. I do. He had a huge, but yeah, what was the hard of my- I did it. Yes, yes. I did it. So we saw him. Yes, I did it.

So we saw him. I can't even, I could write, I mean I've been in hair care so many years and you know we've been able to do a lot of great things, but the five little years that we were in the music business, I could write the best book ever. So funny, so filled so many stories, but it was not successful like the music business. I could write the best book ever. So funny, so filled so many stories, but it was not successful like the music business. But what five years it was. What year was this? What year were you doing this? We sold in 2002 and we were in the music business probably. I don't really know.

When was that? It must have been around 2004. It was when Justin Bieber. We were in around a little bit. Justin Bieber was scooter. Do you know who scooter was? Yes, yeah, yeah. So the girls met scooter there.

And scooter was working with us. I mean, this is how bad I was in the music business. So the girl said, I'm this guy is so great. So I met Scooter and Scooter, amazing. Like he was a kid, amazing, promoting, putting people together, and he was working with the girls. And he thought, I want to manage the girls. And I'm thinking, I don't know, Scooter.

You're so young. This is my genius, okay, in music thinking I don't know the scooter you're so young. This is my genius, okay? And music is I don't know you're so and Of course and at the time almost a few of maybe a year or so later the girls are still recording down there and Justin Was discovered by scooter who's in Canada, right? And it was discovered when he was in the studio I remember the girls calling me say you cannot believe this little kid that Scooter has. He's unimbley-leavable and he's so kind of got such an attitude that you know, they were way older than he was like what it was he 13 or 14 and they were 18 and he's like

You know playing around coming on to them at a kid like it you know, playing around coming onto them at a kid like a, they're so hilarious, hilarious. But yeah, so we did that for five years and then during that time, we wound up figuring out how to cover roots with the product that we launched. And so we decided, that's probably what we should do,

that's what we know the best. But those five years were so much fun. The girls had this amazing manager, I mean, Scooter was in the mix, but foolishly, I didn't think he should manage them very foolishly because he's believable, obviously. But he worked with us to hire this Mona, Mona Scott Young, who at the time was ahead of this, what was it called? It was a management group that had 50% fitting, however, Busta Rhymes, Missy Elliott, and my daughters, right? So it was like the craziest, craziest situation.

I can't even know it's so fun. Really? So what happened? So wait, so what happened to your daughters and their music career? They got signed by Jimmy Ivean at InterScope, together. And they held with it. They must have been around 22.

And I was really worried because they went to high school. They started writing music and I might always thought okay they're gonna do the normal thing, go to high school, go to college and whatever. And the fact that they didn't go to college straight out was always oh my god I'm gonna be blaming myself forever. I'm their mother. I've done the wrong thing. I'm letting them pursue this. And then at about 22 or so, Alex thought she didn't like the music that they were being given. She didn't like the direction.

There were a lot of things that bothered her and she decided she was going to go back to college. And so she went and got into Columbia, which was great because I think it was, she knows she was a very good student and everything, but she also had unusual experience after college, which sometimes I think is interesting for the schools, and she got a great education because of it. So I don't beat myself up too much about that one. Brits stayed longer, and she was signed by Jive and had to change her name because Brits' spares was there to Matisse.

And so she was Matisse for a while and she had a quasi-hit called Better Than Her. I don't know if you know, maybe if you heard it, you would know it was high in the charts in some places, but not everywhere. And then I forget what happened to Jive wound up being sold, I think. And she was resigned at Interscope by herself as Britt Smith.

And actually, when the girls were together, they had a song, Britt and Alex, on the step up two album. And that was like their moment together. And Alex just no more. And then Britt went on to do better than her and then she did a song with Will I Am, did some, oh actually A-Con was in better than her, did some rap part and then she did, they were good songs, but you know you have to have everything coming together and I wasn't involved with it at all Which was a good thing

but She then and she was in it for about seven years and she was becoming less enamored with it and Just thought I got to go school. So but now they're both working with me both of them Oh wow Yeah, do you kick yourself? They didn't let scooter manage them back then and Mona. I was so stupid. I mean, I made so many stupid moves. Of course, but you know what? I feel like, you know,

it's a rejection in that music business. They say that rejection is God's protection. And I totally believe that because I can't even imagine they are healthy that well Alex has her own congenital issues, but they're well adjusted and happy. And I just don't know because they were in the pop lane. And already I could see when they had some hits people circling that I didn't like that were circling them, you know, once it seemed like, whoa, maybe they're gonna take off. And I just think they dodged a bullet. You know, it's right for some people, but I think they dodged a bullet, honestly. I think, you know, when you look at some of the, you know, Britney Spears, for example, I feel so bad for her and look at Justin now with his who knows if it's because he was worked so hard He works so hard who knows but it's a really hard life and when you're that young you have Sikha fans or however you say that you know that

Sikha fans are good word exactly That's what surrounds is circling them and like Whitney Houston just being pushed out there, pushed out there when you know she was really not in shape to be doing that. But money, money, money, money, money everywhere speaks loud Michael Jackson. You know what I mean? It's like you know if you're not at that level and maybe they never would have been at that level, you know. But it's just, it's a hard business, I think, to wind up secure and happy and who wants paparazzi running after you every minute. Like, I can't imagine how tortures that would be. Totally. I think at the beginning of anything, right, it's cool and like wow, you know, but like everything fades after a while

and normalizes and that is your life day in, day out. It is, it would be so awful. Awful. You have no peace. You know, you have no peace. You can't be a normal person. And the demands on you when you can make a lot of money for people, the demands, they just keep wanting to, you know, push that machine, push that machine, make more and more until sometimes it breaks, you know, and so I feel like the rejection was a protection. They got into it a little bit, they worked with really tricky Stewart, who is such a good friend. I love him, he's from Atlanta, and he did Beyonce's most recent. He did single ladies.

He did umbrella for Rihanna. He did baby for Justin, his first hit. And those kind of friendships that we made with these really creative talented people, were so meaningful. And it was like a great five years from that aspect and the fact that while they didn't go on to have number one albums I think it's just fine and I think that they think that now too and the

relationships are there and they're very interesting talented super nice people so so that part we took away was really good that's amazing well so what happened to tail crews because I do remember that song. So he had that. He also had break break my heart. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he wrote with Usher for a while. Oh, okay. He signed him long before he had any hits. We heard one song of it. We heard a bunch of songs. When you say we, I'm sorry, what was your role, Val? Actually, I was just investing in John Frida. It was John's brother that was working with us. You know, Nigel Frida and Anne Bell, who was a partner in the John Frida business and as a partner in this business, she was involved too.

And I said, listen to this guy. I think I'm unbelievable. The girls thought it was amazing, but we signed him very early. And he had one, he had some other more indie or world music type of songs. And then it was just becoming difficult. Everything was, and I thought he needed, he wanted, we needed to reassign him at that point in time. And in my brilliant wisdom, just like with Scooter, I did not. Because the price went up, and meanwhile after that,

he did break, break my heart and also die. and probably a million other things that I'm not even aware of that he's a writer. Yeah, so he probably writes for all these big acts still, huh? Probably. I don't know. I ran into him in the airport in LA. I don't know what's been. It was before the pandemic. I'm not sure what he's doing.

Yeah. That's so funny. So that was like a nice foray from the hair world. So how did you leave in? Because you're not a, you're not a hair stylist, right? No. Like, you're not, so what is your origin? Like, what is your background that you were even able to become what you became in the hair space, in the beauty space, with not even having the practical experience, I should say?

Yeah. I think one thing is that my hair is really difficult to deal with and always has been. And so I have to learn. It looks good. Because it's very, very fine. I have a lot of it and it's frizzy. I have a ton of it. And it's not, it's wavy parts of it are straight.

It's a really difficult hair to deal with. I can't just wash and go. It takes me a long time to even with the products we have now. They're like way better, it's way easier, but still it requires a whole lot more effort than my daughters who have straight hair, you know, and really healthy hair. So I think I learned to do hair because I had to learn or I would have looked extremely weird. So I knew how learned to do hair because I had to learn or I would have looked extremely weird. So I knew how to do it.

When I was in college, I wound up doing when there was some kind of an event, then I did everybody's hair. They would line up and I would just do everybody's hair. I was the last to go. I knew how to do it. And then I just sort of, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I'd like to travel. I didn't think, oh, I'm going to be a doctor,

or I'm going to go into computer science. Or I didn't know what. I just knew that I was interested. I wanted to learn to speak French. I wanted to travel. I went to the University of Paris for a little bit to learn that my mother got sick. So I had to come home. I was sort of dabbling, you know, and everything. I did not know what I wanted to do. And my boyfriend who became my husband was in a band. And then I would sing with them sometimes on a Friday night, not that I could sing well, but I kept my range very small. And I waited until happy hour when everybody was drinking. I waited like me now, no matter what I do. And so, you know, I was having fun and I was when I was working,

I was really serious about what I was doing, but didn't have a passion for, I didn't know what I wanted to do. Then I wound up, after my mother got sick, I left France, came back and stayed home with her, and then she passed, and I was working at a, as a temp at a, it was a haircare company called Zodos. And I wound up after a few years

being, I was in their education department, then I was in charge of the advertising and doing photo shoots, which I really liked that creative side of it. And I was up in the lab a lot trying to figure out why is this product better. So I was always talking to the chemists. So I learned a lot about the chemistry of hair while I was there. And I also was so involved in the positioning of the products and how to put it out there to consumers so that it would sell. So that's kind of, I sort of fell into that. And I really liked what I was doing.

And I was there for about nine years when I thought, I don't wanna do hair anymore. This is just not for me. That may, oh, and I went to law school because I thought, you know what? Maybe I really loved Kate different cases than I was reading and I thought, I'm gonna go to law school at night.

And there was a law school that had just gotten accredited near me. So four days a week, I wound up go to law school at night, and there was a law school that had just gotten accredited near me. So four days a week, I wound up going to law school at night. Four, three years, it's four year at night, and then I was traveling so much for the company that I had to make a decision because I missed five classes in one subject, and you can't do that at the school anyway. So I didn't continue, and I thought, I'll go back to law school, but right now I like what I'm doing.

And I met John Frieda about eight or nine years in who had a small bespoke line of hair care products. And he needed somebody to give him some advice. And that was when I was also ready to leave the company that I was at. And I, with my friend Anne, we were going to start an advertising agency because we were sick of hair. But advertising agencies don't make as much money as if you have a product company. And we really knew hair.

And I thought John was very marketable and very smart. And he kept talking to me and we were consulting a bit and he said, listen, would you join me in London and partner with me on this line and skip your idea about the ad agency? And I talked to my friend Anne and I said, you know, we know this stuff. He's so marketable and I had an idea for my hair type, the frizzy hair type. And I said to John, I said, you know, I have this idea for how to make a product for frizzy hair. And there's not one product in the market now, not one for this hair type. There's not the word frizz on anything at all. So would you be okay with me working to develop this? And he said, fine, no problem. You know, you guys get yourself over here.

So I moved over with my twins that were three, a nanny, and who lived in the house, and our husband stayed back. And we thought maybe it'll be there for six months. We were there for a little over a year and started the business there and the basement of John Frieda's salon. And about, I don't know, maybe nine months in or something,

and I'm working with the chemist, I thought that there was a product that was really good for frizzy hair and was working on my hair. And we gave it to the stylists in the salons. They went crazy over it and I thought, okay, we've nailed something here. This is something special. Let's put this out in the UK, which we did. They went crazy over it and I thought, okay, we've nailed something here. This is something special. Let's put this out in the UK, which we did. And it was amazing. And then I said, we really need to bring this to the US now before somebody else

tries to knock it off. And then that's how it all started, really. This episode is brought to you by NerdsCandy, calling all the stylish, transiting nerds out there. The sneaker heads and makeup beans, the film buffs and reality TV lovers, the style icons, the pop culture geeks. When nerds come together, we live louder, celebrating our passions in our own way. So let's raise our nerds in unison.

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products for frizzy hair. Yeah, the first hair product for frizzy hair. Yes. So this was way before like living proof remember like living proof came out, you know, and like like like 20 years or more 20 years ago, but I remember that 30 years ago, 1990. 1990. So what's so interesting is because when that product came out, it was considered to be like the first of its kind, you member. Yeah. And yeah, the living proof. No, when living proof came out.

See, I didn't think that because I just felt to me when they have a first product. Well, it was about like, you made it, it was good. Yeah, it was basically like when it came out, it was like, oh, it was, it would help frizzy hair. But you were doing this 30 years before with your product. So I guess.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that well, we had a whole line. I'm not sure to me. When I think about, let me prove, I think about the MIT positioning of it more than I think about a specific product because when they came out, like MIT, like, they came out, I remember that their position thing was that they had the scientists, the chemists from MIT that worked on their brand. They had a lot of different types of products. Whereas with our first line, it was all a whole range for frizzy hair because I used to say, you it's weird to me is that every product in the market was for people with fine hair because manufacturers thought well they have problems with their hair because there's no body in them so

every product out there was to add body in the name. I remember that. Yes that's not what I wanted. I wanted the opposite. So I said you know what is very weird is that skincare companies have a whole range of products for oily skin, normal skin, dry skin. But hair care companies only had shampoo's. The rest of the products out there were all for fine hair, all to build body. So I said, we need to, this is like a, I call them BGOs, a blinding glimpse of the obvious John. This is a blinding glimpse of the obvious. We. This is a blinding glimpse of the obvious.

We need to put a whole range out for this hair type. There's 65% of women that have this issue. We'll put the whole line out one by one and then that's what we did and then after that one, I felt, we can't line extent to line extent. Even though people wanted for his products, because I don't want to be bogus. I said right now we've got a real reputation for delivering. I said, so then we did sheer blonde and we did beach blonde and then we sold and then

music and then music. And then music. But wait, so the so what how did you figure out? So did you figure out the formula for frizzy hair did you, you have someone to figure it out? Like, you have the idea for Frizzahare. You partnered with John Friida. And then did you hire people who were specialists in this area to kind of create the formula to make it work? No, what really did was I work for Frizzahare? Well, no, I worked with a chemist at Zodos,

who then has become our chemist for the last 30 years. Oh, wow. And but I had read about certain ingredients and I also worked with a chemist in London that John knew. And I said, I don't know whether this is right or not, but I think that these types of silicons might be able to be put into a formula that would work on my hair type. Could you work with me on this?

So they both did. And that's how the formula came up, you know, to be. And that was the first with a whole bunch of different products in the line for this hair type. That everything in this line didn't have alcohol, it smoothed the hair, it didn't make it big, it made it smaller, it made it shinier. It was completely different ingredients in every single thing. But what was weird is that no hair care company had, this is a huge percentage of the population that had my hair, huge. And the word frizz was not on any single package at all.

You couldn't find it anywhere. I mean, it was insane. And I said, I mean, John, this is like, we just have to make sure the products really work. I said, and this is just people need this. Did it work really well back then? Oh, yeah. I mean, it didn't work like the product we have now because the technology wasn't available. Right, right, right.

Well, you could feel it on your hair, which I didn't like, and it didn't protect against humidity the way this new product we have called DreamCode. That actually wasn't, we couldn't have done that until certain things happened and technology that allowed our chemist to do this. It's all, Chris has it all over the internet where he water proofs the hair, where they take this dropper and they drop it onto the hair and you see the water beat up. It just beads up and rolls off the hair. It's crazy.

It's just an amazing product. What is that one called? The Dream Code. It's, it has like over 60,000 five stars. We have sold, one self every minute. That's how this product, I'm telling you, it's my holy grail, like no question. And Chris, like Chris goes,

if I didn't have that product for JLo for the Super Bowl, I would have been dead because she was outside in a few really for hours before she performed. It is like a technological but you know Joe had this on his list of things from me like I and Anne we give him a list of things that we'd love you to crack this. So keep these in mind when you're meeting with all sorts of different ingredient suppliers. This is what we're after. There are many things on that list that have been on that list for 25 years and he hasn't been able to, you know, make happen.

But one day he came into my office because humidity proofing my hair, I was, because the original frizzy serum did not humidity proof at all. No product out there protected my hair from humidity even slightly. He came into my office with two swatches of hair, one blonde hair, one treated with this new product, blown dry, one without. You could feel both of the swatches, they feel exactly the same, you felt nothing on the hair. He took a dropper bottle and the untreated one he dropped The water on it and it just seeped in the other treated one with dream coat

Dropped the water on it and you could see it beat up like sunbrella It beats up rolls off, but your hair feels like hair It's like the most unbelievable Breakthrough for Fritz that took years because it just couldn't happen before then so I used From you guys the pure wow the conditioner the deep conditioner That was Chris That one that one the blue the blue one yeah, that was Chris that he worked with us on that because I don't know what did you think of it for your hair? I mean I liked it. What was that? I mean you have great hair. Oh thank you.

Thank you. I liked it. I never knew about your I never knew about this dream coat. Like I'm like shocked. It sounds like exactly the kind of product that I need. It's odd. Well you it doesn't look like your hair will frizz, will it? I mean, it looks super shiny and really nice quality from here. Oh, thank you. I haven't washed my hair in a week, by the way. I shouldn't have probably said that, but it's true.

But look at it. Thank you. I'm going to be washing it after I get off the phone with you, but after this interview. But I mean, I've been using for shampoo, like one of those Brazilian blowout types of things, you know, like- That was my recommendation and I don't know where the Chris said this. I am a fanatic about shampoos because I feel like a shampoo should just make your hair and scalp clean gently

period and do nothing else. I don't think it should condition, I don't think it thickens, I don't think it should defrize because if your shampoo does any one of those things, it has to leave ingredients behind on your hair in order to condition it and you're massaging that on your scalp. So, which means that those ingredients that are engineered to stick will stick to your scalp. And that's the worst thing for overall hair growth and hair health. So, we took every single conditioner out of our shampoo, all every ingredient other than cleansing, gentle cleansing, that's all it does. And I tell people, if you want to moisturize or condition your hair, do it with a conditioner after a mask.

If you want to thicken it, do it with a thickening conditioner, do it with a spray-on conditioner, but do not ask your shampoo to do that. Because it's the only product you massage into your scalp and you're massaging these ingredients and in order for them to give you benefits they need to stay there and you're suffocating. You know these shimpos like when and yeah they lost tons of hair they had a big lawsuit. We said that's going to happen because there

were so much conditioning ingredients in it that it was bound, suffocating new hair growth. So my biggest recommendation, and I don't try to push our products down, everybody's throat, it's just not my nature unless it's talking to an account, then I talk to them, but you can only use a shampoo where every ingredient rinses off. Condition it later, you don't rub the conditioner into your scalp. You just pull it through, your hair, use a mask. And then even if ingredients go onto your scalp later, it doesn't matter because your shampoo, if it doesn't leave anything

beyond, beyond cleans it. So like I can't tell you how much I recommend to this shampoo. It's like, it's the only one that does that. I haven't tried any of this. I'm going to send you stuff. Okay. Let me just put a little thing together for you. Please. Okay. Sounds exactly this and this also makes perfect sense to me. That's so common sense, right?

Like if you're, if you're doing that to your scalp, it's going to clog the pores somewhat, right? Yes. 100%. Like, so I feel so stupid because I silicones and conditioners into frizzies. I did. And I used to have unbelievably thick princess Diana bangs. And I feel like over the years of using shampoos that had things that stayed behind, I have had, I mean, I still have a ton of hair,

but I would have thicker bangs. My sister was 12 years younger, like 20 years ago, said to me, I don't know my bangs, she has the hair. I'm thinking you're crazy until when we were trying to come up with a shampoo for Color Wow, we were measuring the shine on it. And we did it after 10 shampoos. And it got dollar with each shampoo.

It got dollar, so we would make a new formula. It got dollar after every shampoo. So I said, Joe, why is this happening? And he said, the only thing I could think of is that we're, they're realizing ingredients that are in shampoos to make it look nice. Yeah. They stay behind. Conditioning agents, silicones.

I'm going to take them all out. I said, take them out. And so we took them out and the shine, we compared it to all other shampoos on the market. After 10 shampoos, they were dull. After 10 shampoos, arts was perfect like the very beginning. And then I said, Joe, I'm just thinking about this. If that's what's happening, that they're staying behind, they're staying behind on your scalp, and we are massaging these things into our scalp. That's horrendous. I said, take them all out, take all the ingredients out,

make the shampoo, just clean the hair, and let us train people to use your conditioner to add moisturizer, use a conditioner to defrizz. Use a frizz serum to defrizz. Use a product that adds volume, but don't ask your shampoo to do that. Do not. Because you're just, it's going to be a disaster waiting to happen. Even if it's a mini one, or a major one like diva curl and when, where there was a class action lawsuit because so much hair was lost. I believe it's because you can't keep pounding and piling on more ingredients from champos and have a healthy scalp. There's no way. There's no way. This is so interesting. So, um, so then why did, so, okay, so you, after you sold, you went, you know,

you're the John Frieda business and then you went to the music world and then you started a color wow. What made you start color wow? How many years ago did you start color wow? And why would you call it color wow? Yeah, it's been 10 years. And I didn't want to go into hair care once again, at all. It was my last thought. But my sister, my younger sister, went gray. She's got much better hair than I do, but she went gray earlier. And she was, had this gray striped down her head all the time, and I said, Lynn, how can you walk around like that? Can't you cover that with something? I never thought about gray hair because I never had it. So I said that was my one lucky thing about my hair. I didn't go gray until the pandemic. And then

it started. But I said, why aren't you covering that? It's crazy. She said there's nothing out there. But these sprays, they go all over my clothes everywhere. There's markers. They look disgusting and they wet my hair again. So I started to think about it. And I thought that's insane with the baby boomers and everything else. How can there not be anything? So I looked into it and there really people miserable was a small market when it should have been huge with all the people with gray hair. So I remember seeing a hairdresser put a blonde wig on a model at a shoot and it looked horrible. It looked really fake. So he went in with eyeshadow and darkened the roots. The problem with it is that when we hit it with a fan, first of all it looked dope, then

looked shiny, when we hit it with a fan, it blew into the air. So I just started thinking about it while I was in the music business thinking, I wonder if we could make a powder with a lot of different pigments in it so that it would be really forgiving and seamless, that could stick to the hair without feeling anything on it and Would be seamless. I said I wonder if we could do that. You could just dab on would be much easier than spraying all over the place So anyway long story short took us three years. We had these great products and I still didn't want to go into the music I mean into the hair care again. I still go. Well these are great, but

My sister's going to Florida. She's leaving to go and she's got the grace right? I said for God's sakes Lynn sit in the chair You can't go to the airport like that. It looks ridiculous. So I put this stuff on her. She leads she calls me the next day and goes You aren't gonna believe this. I said, what? She said, I went swimming. I was under in the waves. My hair dried. I had no great. It stays.

You need to shampoo this stuff off. I said, oh my God. And so then I'm thinking, oh my God, this product is insane. Maybe, and so I started thinking about it and thinking, maybe we have to go back because so many women struggle with the problem, we have a solution, and that was always what drove me really. A lot of it was making a difference.

Like, if you make something that matters, you can make money, you know, for sure. And then you get the pleasure of being rewarded by people appreciating your product and you make money at the same time. So I thought, oh, maybe we should think about it and we did and we thought maybe we can make a whole line that's different than everything else for color-treated hair and that's kind of what led to it and when we call it, my sister, other sister called it, wow, because every time we demonstrated the product, wow, called it wow because every time we demonstrated the product, wow, everything is different. Wow, they would say it's such an unbelievable product. So that's sort of how it all happened. So it's also for I guess I would imagine it's good for people when they get their hair colored in between getting their hair color they can put totally. Yeah, totally.

It's a lifesaver because then you know there's that period where like I put it on but I see I didn't do a perfect job. But I have all gray here and I haven't been in a while. I don't have like tons but I have enough that you would see if I didn't use it. But in between like I'll go longer now. And I don't have to be embarrassed after a few weeks when you kind of see it. And I don't have to spray it all over. I just dab it and then it's gone. Dab it.

You can't keep doing it as it goes down. It won't work because your hair separates and everything. But for, you know, about down to here, you can use it. Wow. Can you put on your hairirline too or no? Yeah. So what Chris does a lot of times, because some people, their hairline goes back a lot and they don't have bangs or anything.

So he uses it to make their hair overall look thicker. Or you know when you pull your hair up, like I've got a lot of hair so you don't see any scalp. But a lot of people with dark hair especially, when they pull it up you see the scalp in between. So it looks like they have fine thin hair. But a lot of people with dark hair especially when they pull it up you see the scalp in between So it looks like they have fine thin hair. So Chris and stylus now all use it fill it in So it looks like you've got a big head of the care When you download the Croger app you have easy access to savings every day shop weekly sales and get personalized

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small go to AquaDuctPlumbingCompany.com. So how did you start working with Chris Appleton? You know, right from when we started I wanted to find another John because I don't like to be the front person myself And I like to have a collaborator, you know to a brainstorm with that really understands hair Yeah, how to use bar act and people were bringing me portfolios. They were sending me them online and I just couldn't find anybody and then I remember so well, I get this one sent and This is back in a year ago by the way and then I remember so well, I get this one sent. And this is back in a year ago, by the way. Well, God, like six maybe.

Okay. And he wasn't, you know, well known at all. And I'm looking at it for a second. No, he was in London, and he was, his only celebrity then was Rita Ora. So I'm going through the books, and I'm going, who is this Chris Aphleton? I've never heard of them.

I've been in the business forever. I don't know who this guy is. And I'm looking, I'm going, this is the book. This is the book, get me this guy. We all in Anna saying the same thing. Who is he? Well, he's so hot, like he's beautiful this guy. I mean, but he looks better and better every year.

Oh, but it's a joke. Like the guy is a knockout. I mean, the guy is just... Yes, I'm in. He's a specimen, this guy. Exactly. I call him like a great god. I mean, there's his bone structure.

He's how family the bone structure is. Unbelievable. I mean, he should be a model for you, never mind. But anyway, you know, I know. Well, we do put him in things. But yes, he was, so I'm looking at his book and I'm thinking, oh my God, this guy's a genius. So then we FaceTime, and he's very funny.

And so I'm talking to him, and he's quick. You know, he's really quick, and he's not like, his head in the clouds. He's really like to the point and You're not fair. He's not like what he's not as wishy-washy airy No, it didn't seem not at all. He's super smart Not that's exactly as it is not airy fairy at all not like, you know Oh, yeah, the trend is well it could be short. It could be long

You know, he's like right trend is, well, it could be short, it could be long, you know, he's like right answers the question, he knows what he's talking about, he's really, really good. And I've never seen anybody work with products like he does. And I've never seen perfect moments that he creates with hair over and over again. And I thought, so I'm talking to him and I thought, wow, he's articulate, he gets it, like he's funny, he's like making fun of me, doesn't even know me, and he's making sort of mean jokes, sort of mean, which I thought was really pretty cool and he did that. And so I thought, well, let's do this, you know, see for six months how it works.

Whether he likes us, we like him, whatever. Right, right, right. And when working together ever since, and he's just, it's such a perfect marriage because we see things the same. We laugh at the same things. He's a cook. You know, and it's funny because we love music as in our DNA and whenever we can work it in. And who does he work on? You know, I mean Kim doesn't, but J-Lo, Ariana, Dua, you know, so many music people read up, you know, back in the day. So, and he loves that world also. So, yeah, it just has, and then, I mean, now he does everybody,

but back in the day, it was just looking at his amazing hair. Like, there was no question that he was going to be incredible. Well, you know, it's funny because I was never sure, right? Like, is it because he's so gorgeous that like people just, like you can kind of like blur the lines, right? But he is really talented. I mean, I mean, I mean, certainly how he looks helps his overalls know to ride it.

Like people see him in the street everywhere they know who he is. Yeah, well he's so beautiful. He like represents, I mean, he's working in the beauty industry for God's face. Exactly. Right. And he just and he's so tall like 64. You can't miss him. That long hair, which he looks so great on him. And he's caught like like a Roman God. He's like larger than life, but he is so funny. Do you know what I mean? And you can make fun of him and he will laugh. He's not he's just and he's very serious about what he does and he keeps at his craft and you know he makes every whether it's J.Lo or Kim or whatever. He makes that moment that they want to be Marilyn or they want to be whatever in a whole leather wet

suit type whatever it is or when she came out of the water that time and he did the wet hair, Kim, he makes that moment, like she's got the clothes, she's got the makeup, and the hair could be something off, and it never is, it's like makes that moment even bigger, you know, what he does with it. He's a really remarkably strategic, remarkably strategic as well.

So is he your spokesperson? Does he have a partnership partnership with this other way? What is the relationship? Yes. He is part of the company. He is a partner in the company. And that's pretty much the relationship. He's been helping us with developing products.

He's just intricately involved with everything and he has been, you know, for a while now. So when he started to get these big, how did he go from Rita Ora? I don't remember a story with him off the top of my head. But when he hit the tipping point, like how did that happen and how did that, how did that change your business?

Well, I think with him, he, I think the story was from him always. He said, is that JLo found him for through his Instagram, which of course she's so strategic and driven herself, looking for the best, the best, the best, because you know, you're only as good as your weakest member of a team. And so the stronger her whole team is, the best, the best, because you know, you're only as good as your weakest member

of a team. And so the stronger her whole team is, the better for JLo. And she found him, she's got a great eye. She found him and that's what really started. I think after a few weeks that he was in LA, he felt I need to be in LA to really, he may have just moved to LA when we, I'm not sure, but didn't have any clients that were US-based when

we wound up signing him. But yeah, he's just, and with us, it's a combination of, you know, the products, you can see it in-stand transformation with them, because that's what we do. We look for a problem and we have a solution quickly. So they're perfect for him too because boom, he can take somebody from one way to another fast. So all of these demos on TikTok that he does. And he's really strategic about it and that he educates. And it's simple. What he does are all these hacks, you know, that make life easier for women. And he's got products are critical to Chris, because you're only as good as what you're using, what your tools are. So that's why it's also great with him, because even if we were going to, but we're neurotic about the formulas

and what they have to do, but he is too. And so it works because we will push and push and push and not let it go. Like it's so tempting sometimes. Well, it's good people aren't even going to realize. No, we make sure that if we say it's doing this, you're going to see it doing it and you're going to see it doing right away. And so he goes on everywhere and on TV and everywhere

and people see the results quickly. You know, it's funny. You have your hair style right now is one of his looks on TV and everywhere and people see the results quickly. It's funny, you have your hairstyle right now is one of his looks that he does. All the girls is that ponytail with the bangs out. Did you learn that from him? No, I've actually learned a lot of techniques from him, but no, because of the type of hair I have,

I've always had to work with it for years and years and years. So you figured it out already? If I ever said that I learned this from him, he would have a heart attack. And so don't be saying that that thing on your head is from me. So that's hilarious. So is your big... Okay, so when he started to get J-Lo

and all these got people though, did your business like 10X, 100X, like put you on the map? No. No, no. I mean, it certainly helped, but it wasn't like, oh boom, immediate. Like when I'll tell you, one of the big moments was actually even before Chris, I think it was Hoda was doing one of her favorite things or what the product that she does in the morning

and she had got a pot bottle of the dream coat from her hairdresser. And she went on and her hairdresser called us and said, Hoda wants to talk about your product. I noticed that it's not in stock. When is it going to be in stock? I said, going to be in stock. My sister's PR said it'll be in stock in a week. She said, well, hold on to your hats because she's going to talk about it.

We thought she went on like the best infomercial on and on saying, I'm telling you this product is going to be the last product you will ever need. This what did she call it secret,, this secret sauce is the best, on and on, like we were looking and again, we see our 60,000 bottles sold out overnight. Really? Yeah. And so that was a huge moment.

And then since then, honestly, that product has been the hardest thing to keep in stock, the ever. Where's the cell? I've never been seen it. Yeah, it's it's in Sephora. Oh, okay. I'm writing it down.

Yeah, and it's in salons. It's in Amazon. It's on our site. But yeah. You have to send me something. And now I'm dying to send you a pat. I will send you. And so is it good? So I would use the dream, what I, if that's the, is that dream coat a conditioner or a shampoo? Neither.

So you all send you the shampoo, which won't leave anything on your hair. The gentle one, yeah. Yeah. I'll send you a conditioner, which is fine. And then I'm going to send you the dream coat. And the thing about the dream coat is you really, you only use it every like third or fourth shampoo. It's, you don't have to use it every time you blow dry. You, when you use it, you have to liberally spray it and I mean liberally. There's a

million videos that people go on, girl, if you don't like the results, it's because you're not using it right. And that is true. You have to to and you're never going to feel it on your hair. Never. I don't care how much you put on you won't feel it. So you load each section, you load it up and you just blow it dry with tension. Your hair is going to be insanely glossy, insanely like glass. It's going to be like glass and the humidity is not going to break it. It's you can go out and it can be really humid out and it's not gonna turn into frizz.

I am so excited to try this product. I'm telling you, it's like a miracle where I'm not, I mean, I'm not just saying it, there's like all over the internet. You can see it all over TikTok, all over everywhere. Oh my God, I feel like I've been living under a rock now. What do you have other interests? I do, I do, but it's fascinating to me.

So wow, well, this has been so informative. Is there anything you can, can you leave me with one great hair tip that I should, Miss Dye, you gave me some good ones actually. For what would you be looking for? You personally, well, me not personally, because I guess I guess I hear what kind of a hair tip do you need? I mean, that's a good, well, I was wearing wash for hair in five days and it looked like that.

How would I, what do you believe about that? Do you believe that people should be washing their hair? I, because I think there's's like, but I've heard was you shouldn't be washing your hair every day. You should be washing it every few days. I think it depends on your hair. If you have really oily hair, don't be afraid to wash it because it's not good for the oil.

Your hair's not going to keep falling out because you're washing it. But if your hair is drier, you don't need it. Like your hair looks fine. So I would, why wash it? You don't have to wash it. It'll just dry it out. Exactly. The more you're going to draw the oils out on your head. So don't do it. If your hair looks like that, why, you know what I mean? Like I can't see it close up. You might think that,

you know, you have some oil built up, but I wouldn't be washing it every day or every other day if I had that hair on my head. That's for sure. I wouldn't be washing it every day or every other day if I had that hair on my head. That's for sure. I don't wash my hair every day because it's dry. My hair is dry, so it would be crazy for me to keep washing it. Right. And then I guess the only other question, whatever happened to John Frito after you sold it and all the different patents that went along, is it out of business, is it gone? We're having to all the patents and... Yeah, that business was sold to Cal. Totally John retired and he's got a house in Switzerland. He's got place in Ibiza and I always tell people if anybody ever

wondered who was the smarter because we were pretty much equal owners of company. We now know that it was John Frieda because here I am slogging around talking about haircare products. And he is off in Ibiza. I don't, I hang the phone up on him. I'm not going to, he goes, look at this. Look where I go, John, I sit seriously, turn around and see your face. I don't want to see your location anymore.

That's funny. So I guess, but you seem like to be the type of person that needs to be doing something, that you need to be doing something productive, that you need to feel like you're working, like you seem to be that type of person. Right, a monk once told me, I need a home for my mind, and that is very true, or I go to a not a good place. So I need to keep working, I'll be more of a warrior, you know, and I so I need to keep it moving, keep it it moving and I'm okay. Yeah, exactly.

And you have two kids. You live in a Connecticut. You still married to the guy that was the musician who... Our player. The guitar player. Is he a go-getter like you? Or you're the more the go-getter? Very different.

He's way more of a poetic soul, more laid back and I don't know if he's so laid back actually but he's he's very different. We're like polar opposites really. Good thing that we weren't the same probably. It's a good thing absolutely. Yeah. You're such a pleasure. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you, Jennifer. My pleasure. It's been fun. It's been fun. I'm glad we talked about music and everything too. It's fun. I love it. I love that you have like, because you know what I've learned is that when people have your type of, you know, people who are type A and who are naturally driven, it seems like you're naturally driven. Like you said, your mind is going constantly. You can

use transferable skills that you have in one area and use them in another area and like there's no, you don't have to be in one silo, like even though you may have not, you don't think you had success as much in the music world. It doesn't matter, you tried, you attempted, you did it and you think that's a, you know, everybody should try because I've got a lot out of it. I have like a great time I met such amazing people. Just go for it and you always do get something out of it. Absolutely.

How we learn from things that don't go right also. It also gives you like colorful, a colorful life with experience and difference. And I think that the fact that you even did that is I think it's very inspirational. People should do that all the time and not pigeon them pigeonhole themselves into one area. Do you do follow Jesse Itzler? Of course I do. He's a good friend of mine. No. No.

Okay, so I love him, right? So I of course have his big ass calendar. I got it. That's hilarious. I really love it so funny because I feel like I believe what he believes and you know his misogyn or whatever he calls it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes, for you and Dave's rule of six things that he has to, right? I just love that kind of thinking because yeah,

well try it. You know, what do you have just give your life some color like he leaves? It doesn't matter if you're the best at something. You know, it doesn't matter. You don't have to be because you're going to grow from that thing and you're going to have experiences. And that's what life is. All these experiences. I love watching. In fact, yesterday, my girls always say, oh, you're never tired. And I go, yeah, I'm tired. But then yesterday I watched him and he said, and I read his book, Living with a Seal,

which I laughed the whole thing, I loved it. I also loved the seal. Like I've read every seal book there is, because I feel like I'm not really like that, but I want to be. And so yesterday I was saying to my friend, because we were trying, I'm not really like that but I want to be. And so yesterday I was saying to my friend because we were trying I'm in this group now we have to do 8,000 to 10,000 or something steps. They put us all on it a day or whatever.

Anyway, I'm watching and I felt a little tired and then I'm watching Jesse and he's going he's on set mile 74 and his feet are amazing. He's exhausted. He's nothing. He's empty and he's running with his friend and his friend said, you know, I'll chat. I'll chat. Chad, the funny thing about me, Jesse, is I never get tired.

I don't get tired. Yeah. I don't get tired, right? So that's my motto now in the house. How are you? I think, so you look tired. I go, I don't get tired. Are you kidding me?

That's all I've been saying for the last few ever since I went out, I'm get tired. I love that. I'm going to tell him that you set all this. I'm going to text him. Oh my god. And I'm going to tell him that you brought him up on my podcast.

That is really hilarious. I'm going to leave that you know him so well. That's great. That's amazing. OK, I'm going to let him know. That's hilarious. Thank I'm gonna let him know, that's hilarious. Oh. Thank you for this podcast.

You were great and I appreciate your time and I can't wait to try your products. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Holla Taha, CEO of the award-winning Digital Media Empire YAP Media and host of YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Paula Tah-Hah, CEO of the award-winning Digital Media Empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young and Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young and Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable

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