Habits and Hustle - Episode 277: Heather Dubrow: The Real Housewife on the Complexity of Life Under the Spotlight

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Sometimes we all wonder, what is it like to be under the permanent scrutiny of millions of judgmental eyes, while living in a reality TV microcosm? This week’s guest on the Habits & Hustle podcast, Heather Dubrow, answers that question. The Real Housewife uncovers the depth and complexity of life under the spotlight and her experience on reality TV – including how show edits can drastically influence viewers' perception of you, her apprehensions about joining a reality TV show, and the impact it had on her acting career. Heather also dives into the not-so glamorous side of fame in the reality TV sphere as she opens up about facing jealousy, competition, and the evolution of her public persona. She shares insights into how our environment affects our personalities, and what she envisions for her life post-reunion. We also touch upon maintaining relationships amidst the drama, her thoughts on body image, and the rumors of her husband's infidelity. Heather Paige Dubrow is an American actress and television personality. She is best known as a cast member of the Bravo reality television series The Real Housewives of Orange County, starring in seven seasons since her introduction in 2012. What we discuss:  (0:00:01) - Evolution of a Housewife (0:13:21) - Discussing Reality TV and Authenticity (0:16:37) - Real Housewives and Family Conversations (0:22:11) - Power of Celebrity Influence (0:30:18) - Understanding Female Competition and Empowerment (0:41:59) - Body Image and Personal Habits (0:50:32) - Reunion Prep and Future Acting Opportunities (0:53:46) - Reality TV Drama and Maintaining Relationships (1:06:36) - Heather Dubrow's Podcast and Website Thank you to our sponsors:  Pendulum: Head over to www.pendulum.com and use code JENCOHEN for 20% off. TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Ritual: Visit ritual.com/HABITS to start Ritual or add Synbiotic+ to your subscription today. Find more from Heather: Website: https://www.heatherdubrow.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heatherdubrow/ Find more from Jen:  Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen  Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I got this Tony Robbins you're listening to Habitson Hustle, Crush it. So Heather Dubrow is on the podcast and I really actually I fell in love with her when I did I did when I felt when I did your podcast. It was mutual. We had a mutual in love BFF moment. We did and now because of that experience you're now on this podcast so thank you for being on. You think it's because we're like East Coast Jews probably. Yeah. I think there's like an automatic feeling of a connection, automatic connection because of that Jewish thing, the East Coast thing. The vibe is very similar. Did we talk about where we went to camp? Did we

play the game? We did not. Where'd you go to camp? I went to Bucksrock and Trail's End. Oh, I don't know. Okay. No. I'm a Canadian Jew, but that's still like not a West Coast California Jew. And there is a big difference between the East Coast Jews and the West Coast Jews. Yeah, well, I mean, I think a lot of people moved here. Totally, but when the ones who grew up on the East Coast are very different, the ones who grew up on the West.

And I told you that funny thing about that friend that went to college with you. Which friend? Mindy Meade. Oh, yeah, who I can't, I don't know if that's the same. Mindy must be. I'm sure it must be the same one. It's very strange.

I have to tell you, like years ago, when I used to do scripted television and if anyone watches Real Housewives and you've seen how they've shit all over my career for the last season. I wanna talk about that. Yeah. Being on scripted TV, it was a last season. I wanna talk about that. Yeah. Being on scripted TV, it was a long time ago, so granted,

there wasn't social media or anything like that, but people treated you very differently. Then, you know, I was like, The reality TV. Yeah, it was like, I like your show, I like your character, but when you're on reality TV, they know you, so they know your children, they know your home, they know where you, you know,

had dinner last week, it's odd, it's different. Well, hey, Foyan, I want to talk about that because I'm fascinated by what happens like behind the scenes because yes, when you see a show, I mean, that is you and that's you're who you are and they, but how much of it is edited to a character and how much is it really you being you? All right, that's a good question. So in general, we have three crews, and our cast is, I think, smaller than a lot of the other cast. Okay.

And not every franchise has three camera crews, which I didn't know either. So I'll just have two. So we film a lot. So I was told once that the algorithm for our show is that every 30 hours of film that's shot, 20 minutes makes it to the air. What?

Yeah. So if you think about it, I would never cry editing. What I would say is, you know, when you're putting a show together, you tell a story, right? Whether it's scripted, on scripted, whatever it is, you don't put in every scene. But something that might be important to you

and how you feel and may have influenced how you behaved, if it's not there that affects you. So like, I mean, let's say you have dinner with your family, right? And your husband says something that's irritating, but it's irritating to you, but it wouldn't be irritating to anyone else, but you know it's irritating. You just have to pour off the non-examely. Right. And so they don't show that, because it's not significant to this dinner.

Of, yeah. But you look pissed the entire night, and it's like, ah, chavvers, such a bitch. She's always in a bad mood, and you're like, well, you didn't show that he just said this, but they're not doing that on purpose. It just wasn't sort of necessary for the story.

But it's true also with life, right? Because you only, people see snippets of who you are in that finite period. If you were to go to dinner, like if I were to go to dinner and my husband would do something that would annoy me, those people I would be with would see that. Right. But they wouldn't see what happened before dinner in the car. Right. It's the same thing.

It's basically a microcosm in a way of life. But the difference is you don't have millions of people judging that microcosm. Exactly. It's a very judging microcosm. Well, and so are you so used to the cameras being on or at the beginning, let's say? Were you changing or even subconsciously changing

your personality because you knew you were being watched by cameras and people around you. I don't think I changed my personality, but I think I was very disturbed about going on the show in the first place because I really wanted to act again somebody. Yeah, so talk about that. And look at it into that.

Because when I was in actress, when reality TV started becoming a thing, it was very much looked down upon. Yeah. So first, remember, you know, game shows became really big that took away time slots for how many years you're talking. How many years you were talking? I mean, you know, I did a lot of stuff in the 90s and the early 2000s and I had my twins in 2003. Okay.

So I had four kids in seven years. So I had like, you know, a good 10, 15 years of being in the business and whatnot and, you know, working as an actress and a singer and all that kind of thing. Before I had my kids, and then I had four kids in seven years, obviously took a little bit of a break and was a stay-at-home mom, I think of my life sort of in decades. And that's why I want to know, give us chronological

for people who don't, like they know you're a housewife. Right. But talk about like the whole, like how the evolution. So you became a housewife in what year? So let me see, Ace was born in 2010. So it was 2011. Okay. So like 12, 13 years.

So and you were an actress before, like, so it basically worked like this. Like I'm from the East Coast. I went to Syracuse. I was a musical theater major. I did a few episodes of Divorce Court in Florida. It was like my first big thing. And I had tape, you know, fancy. Oh my God.

And so they, the producers flew me out to LA to work on this other show that didn't go. But I thought, you know, let me just try it. I could always go back to New York. So I stayed out here. I got a job at Disneyland. I sang at Disneyland, I had a 14 piece big band that I toured with for four years,

that we opened up for some cool groups, you know, like Mel Tourmais, I'm not in transfer, we did corporate gigs, opened for comedians and whatnot. So you're a singer? Yeah, so I haven't really sung in a while, but I was a singer. And so that's what I did instead of waiting tables. I mean, I had odd jobs here and there, but once I got with the band so that's what I did instead of waiting tables. I mean, I had odd jobs here and there, but once I got with the band, that's what I did.

And we ended up being the house band for the nanny, like instead of having a warm-up comedian, they had us. And while you work for Frangerus, like you work for that show, yeah, that is so funny, okay. I know, it's funny. Everyone in the audience, the studio audience, always thought I was related to that.

Yeah, you could just funny. Back then, you guys probably looked a lot alike. Yeah, yeah. And she was great, really terrific to us. So anyway, while I was with the band, I was getting better jobs, a little guest spot here, a little couple of lines there, a better thing, TV movie, whatever, and then when I left the band,

I was doing a musical at the Kennedy Center in DC that I had got cast on, and I decided it was time to leave the band. So I left the band. I was working also as a stand-up comic because the musical that I was doing was about stand-up comedians. I wasn't good. I mean don't get me wrong. That is a skill set. That is of its own. Okay. But because I was playing a girl who wanted to be a stand-up, I thought it would be good experience. So I put together a little act and did stand-up. Really? And it was terrifying and I'm so glad I got to do it.

And then, you know, I just started getting better jobs. And did you dance too? I mean, a little, but not a dancer. Okay. For sure. I know for a musical theater, but yeah, no, not a dancer dancer. And then I ended up getting cast on this show called Life

with Roger that I was a recurring character on. And then I did a bunch of shows. I had a show with Jenny McCarthy on NBC, and I did a show called Star Gravy Mad, and I had a show about a big Italian family called That's Life, with a bunch of really fabulous... But you were a working actress. I was a working actress. You were making a living doing that. Yes. Yeah. Okay, so then you stopped, you have your kids. Yes.

Okay, and then how did the you have your kids. Yes. Okay, and then how did the whole housewife thing come to be? Well, when I had the kids, so when the twins, who were my first kids, when they were, I don't know, two, like we had to pull the trigger on something and decide where we're gonna live. And so we moved down to Orange County.

And I was still keeping the dream alive, you know? I mean, this was before you could create your own content. Yeah. There was no streaming, there was no YouTube, there was none of that stuff. No social media. No, so you felt very out of touch and being a new mom is so isolating to begin with. Totally. And then taking someone who was used to being on a set for 15 hours a day to, you know, being at Jimbury 18 hours a day to, you know, being at Jembury and doing all the jimberings, I mean, right? Jembo! And so I hated Jembury.

I know. I did all the things. I was like, this, but keeping the dream alive, I would do a pilot or two. Yeah. Every pilot season and it wouldn't get picked up and I would sort of like be sad and relieved at the same time because I love my kids and I wanted to raise them and be with them. But it was just a very hard, it was hard period of time. And I remember Terry saying to me, if I had a crystal ball and I could

show you, I felt like everything was going to work out in the end. Wouldn't you be able to relax? I'm like, mm-hmm, but you can't, you know, and so then- I should use your personality. Like, I can't, you know. And so then, I received your personality. Like, I can't see you just being a stay at home mom without having other extracurricular. I made parties, I was room mom, I was at the park. I mean, I just did it all because, and so I mean, lots of moms do this.

But, you know, I am honest enough to say, I enjoy working. Yeah. And so the hard balance for me was I didn't want to leave them, but I also wanted to work. So I think sort of life gave me in a good way what I needed at that time, which was to be able to be home with them.

So even though it was like personally kind of upsetting sometimes, I wouldn't trade that time. Right. And then what happened was when my youngest, what I started housewives when my youngest was nine months old. Oh, wow. Yes, and I didn't want to do the show. Terry signed the contract for it,

because for me, I need to know. So originally, it's a longer story, but what happened was, we want to know. Okay, a couple of years before I actually got on the show, the year that they hired Alexis Blino, they had contacted me, because the way they find people for the show, the year that they hired Alexis Bollino. They had contacted me because the way they find people for the show is through plastic surgeons' office.

They call Matrodis at restaurants. They call hotels and ask about clientele, that kind of thing. So they'd call this- Is that how they do it? Partially. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. That's how they canvas. Okay. It's like their version of head hunting. At this time, Terry was a plastic surgeon in Orange County. And we were building a house. And it was like in the middle of construction,

we were doing this ground up crazy house, and not the one we just sold, but like the other one. And so we were building this house, and Terry says to me, he's like, hey, there's this show, Real Housewives of Orange County. And it's like, you know, a fun show with women and whatever, and did it, or are you interested? And of course, I'm like, this is before I had my fourth kid,

I had three kids, and I was like, back on television? Of course, yes. So I interviewed with them. I had no idea what the show was. And I interviewed with them, and did the whole thing, and at the end of the day, they thought I was to New York to be on Orange County. Thoughting you say that, I thought the whole thing, and at the end of the day, they thought I was to New York to be on Orange County. I thought, and you say that.

I thought the same thing. I actually thought you were New Jersey or New York, like when I first like saw you, because you were like the antithesis of what I would expect in Orange County. But I think that's what made it fun was the dichotomy of that. So anyway, they said I was to New York,

and I was like, okay, you know, never. And Terry goes, oh, thank God. I'm like, why? He goes, oh, they fight, they said I was to New York and I was like, okay, you know, never. And Terry goes, oh, thank God. And I'm like, why? He goes, oh, they fight. They, I go, how would you ever put me on a show like that? That's terrible. So then they kept calling and I said, no, they called once or twice. I can't remember how many years in between this was.

But then, we were pitching a show, me and some girlfriends were pitching a show about opening a restaurant. And throughout our travels, we met with evolution who produces Orange County. And that show didn't end up going. But they said, you know, we like you, we like your friends. What do you think about coming on Real Housewives Orange County? And we'll put all your friends on it. And if it works, we can spin it off. And I asked all of them. And they're like, yeah, I would do that. I go, yeah, but I don't see myself doing this. You know, I don't think I'm like, I have the right makeup for this and whatever. And Terry was so mad because at now a few years later, reality TV was reality TV. And obviously the landscape of television had changed. And this platform is enormous. So you can

imagine what it would do for a plastic surgeon's practice. Oh, that's probably the best, that's the mecha right there. Yes. And he had done bridal plastic other, you know, plastic surgery TV shows and they're always like so good for your business. So he ended up signing the contract.

So he was the one who wanted to do it more than you. Oh, yes. Oh wow. So were you like in the second or first iteration, when the originals on the show, like pretend I'm a moron, because I don't really watch the show. Yeah.

So Orange County is the first housewife franchise. Yeah, that I know. It's the original. I joined in season seven. So you were, so season seven, you, so you must have known about the show of seeing it somewhere. Well, when I had tried out that first time,

I season five or whatever it was. Four. Okay. Three, four, and it must have been four. It must have been four, I don't know. Maybe four. I don't even remember. But no, but then I knew about when Beverly Hills started

because we were friends with Paul Nassif and Adrian Maloof. So then I had watched it, so then I understood what the show was about. What the show was about. Anyway, so he signs the contract and I was so angry. And then finally I go, fine, if you need me to do this so badly, fine, I'll do it. And then he got nervous.

So he showed me a scene of Tamer throwing wine on this other girl Gina and this whole thing. And I was laughing. And he was like, why are you laughing? I thought you'd run from the room horrified. And I said, no, it's like a satire. It's like a Christopher Guest movie. I can do that.

Are you serious? Yes. So then what was the time commitment? What was the contract time commitment at the beginning? Was it like, well, take two days a week, five hours a day? I don't remember really working like that. I think it was more like, it's this many weeks of principal photography. And then there could be pickups and then...

And did they follow you around or did the plan things like give us the bat like the scoop? It's really it's not like the real world. Remember when the real world first came on it was crazy and it was like or big brother? 100%? It's not that. It's not like that. No it's not like that. No one's like surprising you from a bush. There's no hidden camera in your toilet like it's not like that. No, it's not like that. No one's surprising you from a bush. There's no hidden camera in your toilet. Like, it's not like that. It's not like that. No, because this is, I mean, listen, the show was based on,

it's like Mrs. Cravitz. It's like someone peeking through, do Mrs. Cravitz. What do I do? Someone peeking through the curtains of someone else's house and seeing, because like, wouldn't aren't you curious? Don't you see people? That's the best kind of show.

And you're like, I wonder what they're really like behind closed doors. I think the challenging thing today is finding people that are really willing to show their authentic selves and their authentic lives because reality TV is so huge. And I think it's hard. Some people want to create characters for themselves or things like that.

And that's when it doesn't work. Because you've got to be authentic. And my, you know, the bad part or the good part about me is that I'm sometimes too sensitive. And I don't think I'm not devious and I'm not calculating like, oh, if I say this, and I'm just not. And if you say, I'm going to react, the way I'm gonna react. And sometimes it's maybe not the best way.

Or is it the best? Well, it's probably the best for television. It's the best for television. Because it's real. It feels real. It's funny because I feel like the most likable characters are the ones who are, again, like the Bethany Frankel,

the ones who have like a bite to them that is more authentic. It feels more authentic. You feel that way. See, I thank you. I don't like mean fighting. No, I agree with that. Which is my only big problem with the show,

is that I like the petty fights. You know, in my first season, someone broke the bow off the cake of the party I was having, and it became like a ridiculously large fight. Hellarious. What do you mean? Like, I had a bow on top of the cake, like a fondant bow,

and one of the girls broke it off and ate it, like in the middle of the party. And so did you go up to her and say, someone told me, and so you caused a whole cuffuffo? Well, I didn't. You know, my friend Dina, who I love very much, we've been friends for a very long time,

she goes, you see that girl in the red dress, she just broke the bow off your cake, and I'm like, stop it. She did not. Who does that? That's like, kids do not. Not to do that. You don't touch the cake.

I see. So was that something that was like, no one insta, like no one, no producer said, hey, go tell her about that. No, she's not even on the show. She's my friend Dina. Like some random friend of yours. Yes. Okay, so we're going to a head of ourselves.

Hold on. So then now you start in this contract. They don't say to you, okay, so we're gonna follow you for Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday. I don't remember being like that, to be honest with you. I don't, it was like 12 other dinners. I don't remember exactly what it was. Even now, how was it?

Like, do they stay on the same day? No, no, it's like, you have, you know, principal photography is starting on this day and it's running till about this day. Sometimes it changes a little bit depending on our trips or if a venue for a final party, that kind of thing. But pretty much you know that we work five, six days, five days a week.

You do do five. And you have a crew. But do they need to have things to actually? So my fear would be like, oh my god, I'm not doing anything interesting. So people don't want to see that. Everyone feels that way. But what is interesting is the most mundane of things.

The new shot, yeah. It becomes so interesting. I mean, one scene last season on the show. So my daughter, Kat and I were gardening. Because I had these planners on the side. I stupidly, when I built this house, I thought a gardening arrow would be good. Didn't think to, I don't know,

ask someone who actually knows about gardening and sunlight and soil conditions. What would grow there? It was a little bit of a fail. So what I was growing didn't work in this plant or a catarena was like, let's plant flowers. I was like, great. So my friends own this really beautiful nursery, nearest called Rogers Garden.

So they came over and they have even Rogers Garden. It's very nice. So anyway, so they were helping us dig the things and so Kat and I are just talking, we're digging and out of nowhere she goes, I think I'm gonna take my lesbian flag down and I said, why? And she was, you know, I made a tick-tock and it was in the background and I got these comments, whatever. And it launched into the most beautiful, most normal, mother, daughter conversation. But it was a normal conversation.

And what I loved about it is one of the reasons that I know we're getting at. But one of the reasons, because I did five seasons, and I left, and I came back last season. I took four seasons off, which equated to five years with the pandemic. So I started, again, 10 years after the first time I was on the show. Oh wow.

So I started and it was like why go back? And my feeling was, I have this huge platform. We've done, you know, I'm very grateful. We've done very well. We've got books. We've got, you know, supplements, skin care, you know, lots of wonderful, lucrative businesses. My desire to go back was to use the platform to try to start conversations in other people's families and show them what our family looks like with kids of different genders and different sexualities and all of that.

So what I loved about this conversation, because we knew we were gonna talk about Max. Because Max is, she's bisexual, she had come out, I don't tell my kids stories for them, they do that, but she had come out on her social media and whatnot, and there had been all these amazing supportive messages and also, you know, sad messages from parents that are estranged from their kids, and vice versa,

and, you know, parents messaging me that their kids took their versa and parents messaging me that their kids took their lives because they didn't have a safe space. It was heartbreaking. So that maybe we can come back and maybe we can help some people. And when Kat and I had that conversation, it was so normal. But afterwards I said to her, I'm like, are you cool with this?

I'm like, you know, because if you're not, I can talk to the producers because she's a kid. Yeah. And she was like, no, do you think we'll help people? And I said, yeah, I really do. And she goes, no, leave it in. That's this is who I am. This is our life, you know. I want to tell you about Masterclass

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I even watch things, I can't, I cringe because it feels so artificial and phony sometimes. Well, if something feels artificial and phony to you, it probably is. And that's why when shows, if you're watching our show this season, it really feels like when I was first on the show. I didn't watch when I took a hiatus. Yeah, why did you take a hiatus anyway? It was time. It was, I, the culture of the show had just changed and it was time to step away.

But. And how long did you step away for? Four seasons. So literally four, that's like four, five years. But it was five years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. But I really honestly, I feel like those moments are so important. And you know, I think some people watch the show because they,

it makes them feel better about their lives because some people sometimes are a shit show. And some people like to watch it because they want to aspire to something. The house, the car, the trip, or the clothes, or the parties, and it's an escape to them. It's aspirational. Yeah. It could be escapism. It could be depending on who it is.

Like, yeah. But I will say it's so funny. He had that, like, even the guy who was here before, like, he's the most serious dude in the world. And he's, and I was like, oh yeah, blah blah blah. You're coming on. He's like, oh yeah, my wife loves that show. She loves that.

I'm like, it's funny how like everybody like it's such a it's such a popular phenomenon. Yes like it's beyond like there's crazy Crazy like I can't believe how popular like I don't think there has been a reality show Except of course the biggest loser in the fitness base. Okay, amazing race was good. In this world of reality that you're in, what has been bigger than the housewives? Nothing. I mean, it's pretty culture. It's pretty up there. And what's so crazy is like these huge a-list celebrities

that are obsessed. Everybody seems to be obsessed. Obsessed with it. Like who, name the biggest celebrity? Like Nicki Minaj, Chrissy Teigen, Jennifer Lawrence. Everybody seems to be obsessed. Obsessed with it. Like who named the biggest celebrity? Like Nicki Minaj, Chrissy Teigen, Jennifer Lawrence. I mean, there's so many people. I know, like, oh my god, I love you.

Or what, did they have enough to do? I haven't met Jay-la, but I'm a fan. Is that what happens? Are the people like major celebrities come up to you and be like, oh my god, I love you. I love your show. Or what did they say? I, not with me, but I've seen it happen with other people.

I know, I guess I've been messaged and re-honoured said something really great about me last year, two years ago. That's a good one. You talked about me as a mom, how she really likes me as a mom, and she said I'm really chic. I mean, she said some nice things. And what was so funny was, so I have to pull it up. But it was like, Heather's really chic as a mom,

and I love how she lets her kids be who they are, something like that. So I put it, my kids in Terry, that we have a group chat, Dex, and I put it on there, that she said that. And they're like, oh my God, that's so cool. And then I posted it, and they're like, you are such a loser. It's so funny how you could go from being so cool

to such a loser. Such a loser. So quickly. That is, listen, that's postable, right? Because of all the people, that's a cool one to have. Like Rihanna is Rihanna. Rihanna is a rock star. Yeah, legitimately a rock star.

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So then let me just get back to what I saw the phenomenon is so like I you stopped all the time, like in life, like just walking around? What, yeah, it's not consistent. Okay. Like we can be places, when Terri and I are together, it's, we're more recognizable. Right.

Because, you know, obviously he's on the show by the way. Right. I'm on house on his work, you know, we have a couple. As a couple. We have a brand as a couple. So, so that happens. But there are sometimes where it's like your Madonna.

Like, it's crazy. And there's other times no one could give a shit who you are where you come from. You know, no one cares. They don't like, so in LA do people give a shit? Or they don't give a shit because of the light? No, they do. People, I have to say, people are very nice to us.

I've never had someone come up and say anything unkind. And especially, I would say in the last few years, really kind, thanks for this, this helped me, this helped my child. I rebranded my podcast this past year also. And I kind of did an internal rebrand. Not that I wanted to change my brand, because that sounds weird. I didn't want to be a different person, but I wanted to be more specific, like when I started

my podcast, like I think I was eight years ago. It was called Heather DeBros World, and it was like almost funny. It was, you know, my agent said, you know, you should do a podcast. I'm like, great plan, what's a podcast. I don't even know. And so I started it, and it was supposed to be because I was on this reality show, giving the audience a different view of me,

maybe something a little more raw and filling the blanks. A little bit. A little bit. So that's how I started it. And it was fun. And I had lots of guests on, and sometimes I would have even actors on and personalities, whatever.

And what I've realized in the last couple of years, even before the pandemic, and maybe it was turning 50, is that I am very interested in learning constantly, which I always was but even more so, how to be a better parent, a better friend, a better partner, better daughter, better everything. Yeah. And I'm not looking for perfection, but I'm just looking to do better. And so anything that I can do, like I want to start conversations

that is going to help someone. Because if I help one person, I mean, after I was telling you before we started about Terry's TIA and all that stuff. It's unbelievable. It was so crazy. But so Terry and I kind of went on a stroke tour, a TIA tour.

For a couple of days, you know, people wanted to interview us and we did them all because his whole-on-the-heart was fixed, he was good, and we wanted to spread awareness, and you cannot believe the messages I got, but one in particular, and I posted it, it was just chilling, and it was about her husband. This woman wrote to me about her husband and he was having these odd symptoms and she had just heard me talking about the signs and symptoms. She was like, he didn't want to go to the hospital, but like very similar and she made him go and he had an actual stroke stroke and he needed the clot busting medicines

and the whole thing. She saved his life and they said to her, she wrote this and this thing, she said, all the doctors and everyone said, he's going to make a full recovery because of how fat you acted. They said, you saved his life and she said, no, Heather Dubrow saved his life. And I like, I mean, she saved his life. But I mean, the fact that I understand, like, the fact that I could affect one person's life by just telling our story and putting things out there, that's what I wanted to do. So that's why I rebranded myself internally

to be on a more north compass for, you know, how I want to live my life, how I hope my kids live their lives and friends. And do you notice how you get older, your friend group gets smaller? 100%. That's all part of that. And you know what, I used to worry,

oh, they're going to think I'm a bitch because I'm not friends with them anymore. And I really try to elegantly extract myself, it doesn't matter. If you're not friends with someone anymore, they need a reason and they won't like you. I'm over caring about that because I know that that person wasn't good for me or I found out

like, who, find out who your friends are. You know? 100%. Are you friends with the people on the show with you? I mean, of course. Like you develop relationships. I mean, you of course have different relationships with each of them.

But man, these relationships are very complicated. Your friends, and you become family, and you're like sisters and your coworkers. And that's a lot of layers. And your women and those, I have to be competitive. Okay, so funny that you mentioned that because I am not a competitive person. And if you know me, you know that to be true. If you know that you're actually, you don't seem that.

I mean, I know you a little bit and I don't get that from you. You know why? Because after you did my show, we started talking about how we were helping each other. Yeah. Next. Exactly. How can I help you? What can we do for each other next? And we just love each other.

But that's how I like to show up in the world. And if someone has that energy and has right for me and vice versa, like, isn't that? Yeah. It's naturally. That's what comes out naturally. Yeah, yeah. But there are people that are very competitive and I don't understand it because there's, you know, these are very like, sorry, these are tight,

but like there's room for everyone and putting out someone's candle doesn't make yours brighter. It's not a zero sum game basically. Yes. And so I don't understand when women don't get that. Well, it happens, but it happens more often than not. Yes. And so I don't understand when women don't get that. Well, it happens, but it happens more often than not. Yes.

Because I think we're very caddy and I think when people say, oh no, we're not, women empowerment, all this like women empowerment talk. Mm-hmm. A lot of it is hashtag worthy and very much in the zeitgeist, but people don't. Is it true? But it's not true.

Okay, so when I was growing up, my mom, she's still alive, but my mom was a great mom. She did everything she could to the best of her abilities, but she was very like 1950s and don't tell anyone anything and sweep things under the rug and she was jealous. I don't know. My mom was. At you or at the women?

No. Of everyone else. And it would come subtly, but I don't know. I don't know. At you or at least I'm the women. Of everyone else. And it would come subtly, but I didn't realize how much it affected me as a person. But it would be like, if I didn't get the starring role, it was like, oh, why did she get the starring role? Who's her mother? Which she on the PTA or like, why'd they get that job? Who's her dad?

Who did they know? Who wrote them a recommendation? Like, everything was very jealous, and it took me, when I realized I was that way, it took me a couple of years to really reprogram myself because that's not who I am inherently. But I was so affected, how can you not? Because we're all a product of our environment.

Totally. But to me, it's how you break the cycle. So what I find strange is, once you start getting a modicum of success, I don't understand why that doesn't amineal, I understand struggling how it might be very difficult because I've been there too, to root someone else on that's really doing well. I hope that's not the case for people, but I could get it.

But once you yourself have a monocompromise success, how could you ever not want everyone to be successful? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you're saying. Because that's how you've retrained your brain to be that way. Yeah, I want, and someone once said to me, like, oh, are all your friends pretty and successful? And something, and I was like,

do you go out of your way to hang out with unsuccessful people or unattracted? Like, I feel like everyone's pretty when they're successful and happy. I also think it's, I prefer to be around people who I admire and respect based on what they've done and who they are. But there's a whole other psychology about people not wanting to sit the shot in for a thing. I think I told you that you, like people like to be around people or like misery enjoys company.

I know. I said Shaddon for the show this year. Oh, you did. This week I called them Shaddon for adventures. Oh, you did? Yes. Because people get pleasure at it. That's what it means. People getting pleasure out of other people's misery or in happiness because it makes them feel better about themselves. But that sucks. And like, it's like very easy to be a friend to someone when the chips run, oh, poor you,

poor this, poor that. But the hardest thing, the middle of a friend is to be friends in success. That's the whole thing. If right. But that is not the norm, unfortunately. But that's why you have to be friends with successful people because I believe successful people want to be around successful people.

And it's elevate to 100%. Like someone mindset though. One of the girls said about me on the show something like, oh, she needs to be the... People have been talking asking me if I'm going to be moving to Beverly Hills Housewives. I think I asked you that, too. Because we bought so much real estate, but they were giving it.

Someone on my show was giving an interview. I can't remember who it was, but they said, would Heather... How would she be on that show? She said, oh, I think she'd have... Oh, maybe it was Emily. She said, I think she'd have a problem not being the top dog. And it made me laugh. Because first of all, I thought to myself,

I ain't the top dog on this show. So I don't know where that's coming from. Who is the top dog? I don't know. But I think she was talking, I think what she meant. And other people have said this about me on my cast. Like, they feel like I need to have the biggest house or have the most money or be the way.

Like, I don't feel that way. By the way, you throw the party and invite me. You get the, you know, I can't everyone have a big house. Can't everyone be successful? Can't everyone? They can, but again, people want, sometimes, like people like to be around people who they feel are superior to them.

They feel better, but that's a psychology of, that's a psychology. That's how they talk about me, but it's not true. So how do you reconcile that? These are not friends though. That to me is not a friend. They could be co-workers or whoever, but it's a very competitive,

like you get more, let's say for example, you're getting more pressed in this person. I mean, it does become like a psychological, like, mind-fuck a little bit, right? Yeah, I don't, yes. And the things that I get upset about the show aren't that, because I honestly... It doesn't bother you. That doesn't bother me in those terms, because I truly believe that everyone's got their own path and everyone's got their own path and

Everyone's doing their own thing and everyone's very different, right? Yeah, so we're not all gonna be doing the same thing I mean would it be weird? No, I mean Look, I've had a skin care and supplement line for many years. How many years have you had it? Well, I mean Terry and I have done skin care in some form or another for the last 20 But this one I think is the last 10 years. And it's called by the way. It consults beauty and consult health.

And I don't talk about it that much, they do well, they're great. I don't know if you haven't mentioned it. I know, because I don't know why I own a show. Do you consult, do you consult? You can go to HeatherDepro.com, see it all, bye it all. It's great, it's all I've used for 10 years. Anyway, Gina, who's on my show, it's all I've used for 10 years.

Anyway, Gina, who's on my show, came out with a skincare line last year. I am thrilled for her. I asked her if she wanted any help. If she needed to know anything like if I could help her at all, I am happy too. That's what you do with each other. There's not just one skincare line in the whole world. There's many. And guess what? There's many that are very, very successful. It's not just one. There's room for everyone. There is room for everyone. So, does that mean, so Gina, how is hers doing? Just about an alarm cure? You know what? I don't know. I mean, I haven't asked her, you know. Do they have husbands? This is how like how like how much I don't know. But do they have husbands, this is how much I don't know,

but do they have husbands who are also successful, like have they made businesses out of the business TV? Out of the platform? Yeah, out of the platform. Some do. Because your husband seems to knock it out between the stat, your show, the bot show. Yeah, he was a very successful plastic surgeon

when I met him. Oh yeah, okay. Because I met him when I was, I think we're like 10 and a half years apart. So I think I was 26 and he was 38 when we met. And so he was, he was right doing well. He was already, he was like a fully formed, you know, human with a big practice and the whole thing. And then, you know, did TV show here, did a TV show there, whatever.

But truly, I mean, botched is basically a spin-off of housewives. Oh, great. So whatever happened to the spin-off of you and your friends doing the restaurant. So we filmed on the show a few times, but I have to say, like, my friends, they're so sweet, and I love them so much.

They didn't want to be on a TV show. You know, it was fun taking the meetings, because we'd go to LA and we would go to take the meeting, we'd get dressed up and then we'd have lunch and champagne. Right. And then we'd go home. It was so fun. We had the best time and they were all so kind about it

because honestly, when Orange County thing came around, I called each one of them individually. I'm like, look, they said they'll do this. I can't guarantee that. I'm happy to not do the show and do a show with you guys. Your friendship is more important to me. And they were like, eh, I'm never doing it anyway. It was like, it was very much like that.

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run, not walk, and check it out. dailyharvest.com slash hustle. You'll thank me later. So then, how about the other housewives on like the New York that land? I don't know, all the millions of other ones. Do you know all those people too? I know some of them.

Like I know a bunch of the girls from Beverly Hills. Some just from life from years ago. Some because I've met through like Lisa Ran and I were in acting class years ago together. Because she was an actress too, yeah. Yeah, Garcella and I have known each other for a number of years. And yeah, Bethany, I each other for a number of years. And, yeah, I'm Bethany. I've known for a long time too.

I was Rannender and Aspen last year. Our kids played together, it was really cute. And like, when we go to BravoCon, or, you know, we just did, you know, what's it called? Family Feud, with the Gallicrim at Landa. That's so fun. It was so fun.

We had the best time, and it was so great seeing all of them and their lovely. And even the ones that I don't know, the girls that I didn't know, like we saw each other and we even though we don't know each other, you know each other. And so it's like, oh my god, hi! And it's great and I really do feel like it's a sorority, you know, it's nice. And you know, you're only as good as your last episode, your last season, your last whatever. And you kind of forget, you move on and you run into people that used to be on the show and you're only as good as your last episode, your last season, your last, whatever. And you kind of forget, you move on,

and you run into people that used to be on the show, and you're fine. It is what is. It's such a, I'm fascinated by the whole phenomenon of it all, right? And I think people are too, like you're saying, like, filling in the blanks for people who don't necessarily know what they don't know, right?

And that's why I love having this conversation with you, because you're giving me the skinny on the show. By the way, you're so skinny. This is the trauma. Is this the trauma? Well, first I was skinny when I met you. Yeah, no, I tend to run thin. Yeah, you're pretty skinny.

But I don't have a trainer right now. Can you do cardio? That's why I'm so skinny because I'm doing cardio and I'm not, yeah, because I keep my heart healthy. So I always do my cardio. So I've been going to orange theory, which I really like, but it's not enough weights. And so I'm looking for a new trainer, which you and Anna are going to help me with. I'm going to for sure. First off, so let me, so you're naturally this skinny. So I mean, I feel like I've always been thin,

but you know, my body changed. So we're, tell me if this happened to you, because you're so fit. So thank you, but I used to be, like if you Googled me, so I had a really fat face, a lot of missed that college and a lot of big. Really? You had a fat face? Oh yeah, because my body was voluptuous.

Like I had huge natural d breasts, small waist, and I had hips. Okay, sounds good to me. I had a voluptuous cute little figure. And I gained like the freshman 40, that wasn't so good. But so for the first few years of college, not so thin, but like normal thin in high school, and then gain the 40, and then I I did pageants for a little while.

I can totally see you doing that. Because in my day, the only way you could get on TV singing was Star Search or Miss America. What Star Search? We won Star Search. No. I submitted a tape to Star Search and I didn't get in and it was funny. I was on a red carpet for something and Ed McMahon was there and he hosted Star Search. So he came up to me with his wife and he was like, oh my, he was so nice.

And he said, oh, we love your show. He was so sweet as years ago. And I said, oh my god, I'm so excited to meet you. I said, you know, I sent in a tape for Star Search. And he said, if I told you the number of talented people that I have met that have now gone on to be from successful, that didn't make it really. Yeah, he was so nice. Anyway, so Star Search or America and Vanessa Williams went to Syracuse, but also she and her brother her brother and I grew up together since we went to school together. He's a great above me, but we went to school together since like nursery schools. So I knew her family whatever and so if you were a musical theater major at Syracuse and

You were sinker. Yeah, you did the Miss America. You did the Miss Syracuse pageant. Did you do the Miss Syracuse? I was so I won that and then I went to Miss New York and I did not win that but I was Miss Aginiality so I was the nicest girl in New York for a whole year just saying are you serious? But anyway, what was great for me, two things about the Miss America pageant, Miss Syracuse pageant. I learned how to interview, like you cannot believe, because at that time you had to answer a question live on stage. And it wasn't like, what's it mean to be a friend?

It was like a question. And so you really had to be up on current events and be able to answer a question live on stage, which is, you know, a difficult thing to do sometimes. And there was an interview portion where you sat in front of a panel of five people that counted for, I mean, it could have been 35% of the score. Oh, wow. Yeah. And you were drilled with questions about, you know, the town, the city, the state, the country, you know, all kinds of things. And so, it was, I got mad skills from that, number one.

And the other thing it did was, I lost the weight from freshman and sophomore year. Oh, that's good. Because I had to be in a bathing suit. Oh, you did, yeah. So, I did that. And then, from then on, I was thin. And then, I was an actress. And I was like, but still, young, big boobs, voluptuous, but then, but if you look at my face, like it's huge.

And so after I had my kids, or during the process of having three pregnancies for children, my body completely changed. And I, you know, no more boobs. Although, they bounced back a little. Barely, yeah, but yeah. I mean, they're like a solid B plus. But your husband's a plastic surgeon for God's sake. Can you get them fixed at least or any? No, they're good.

Good for you. Like, I just, I don't wanna do it. Good for you, neither did I. But listen, by having that as a perk as a husband, I mean, it can happen. Well, listen, I like other things, but he only does surgery. He doesn't do like injectables or anything.

I don't think that. No. But you can go on now. So after having my kids, my body went for that, so I lost the boobs, and I did for five seconds think about getting my breast done. And this is why I always tell people, if you want a mommy makeover, you've got to wait

a couple of years, because like my breast tissue can be bad. So I'm like a big bee. Let's call it small-sing, big bee. Small. I think it looks good to me. It's all right, it's not bad. And they look not terrible naked. And so nipples are still in a good place.

And so my body got super straight. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's a different question. I don't know. My body turned into like this leaner, more athletic body. So I have had two completely different body types. What are you doing? Like my race instead of going in just got very straight.

And it's not like, imagine I'm like ozampic or anything. No, what am I trying to get back to my birth weight? Who knows, you're very skinny though, I gotta say. So what do you do, do you? I was thinner a few years ago. So when we had our 20 year wedding anniversary, we went on this big trip, and we went to the South of France,

and went to Paris, whatever, it was so fun. But I wanted to be like bikini ready. Yeah. And so just 10 years ago, you said? No, no, it was, I think you said you were maybe 30 years over there, you told me you were no, it was, I think you said you're married 30 years over there, you told me earlier. Not married 30, like we're together like 27.

Oh, okay, okay, almost 30. No, we're gonna have our, we're married 24 years, it's four years ago. Wow, okay. And like, but the great thing was, so I got super skinny, like weight-wise thinner than I am right now, but I was shredded, like I was doing two a days, I was weights, I was like,

I was so happy. It was the first time I life that I felt like, all right, maybe I won't put the sarong on. I'm gonna walk around. I'm gonna do my thing. Ever since then, it's gone down. But, and then I had foot surgery. Oh my God, if you don't have to,

don't ever have foot surgery, I had a bunion, I had a thing. And, and I'm going through menopause. Like, what a disaster. So, I gained a bunion, I had a thing. And I'm going through menopause. Like, what a disaster. So I gained like 12 pounds during that period of time. This is a couple years ago. And then I was like, it's not comfortable on me. I don't feel like myself anymore. So I lost the weight. I'm super excited to share my latest health obsession with you guys.

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Product Membership with this code, Jen Cohen. So go now to pendulumlife.com and use my code at checkout. Trust me, you will feel incredible. So what are your habits like you're doing? I eat lean protein and vegetables is the basic of my diet. Okay. I work out, I mean, right now it's a little bit difficult with the kids going back to school and all this, but a minimum of six days a week. A minimum. Okay. So do you sometimes work out like every day? Mm-hmm. Okay. And not orange theory every day or every day you're doing orange theory.

It depends. No. I mix it up. I like boxing. So you'll do like how much exercise a day, an hour, 30 minutes? Yeah, I like an hour. Every day, in the morning, and that, and that. I like working out in the morning, and I like cardio fasting, and I'm an intermittent faster. So I will, and I don't drink coffee.

So you don't drink coffee? No, no coffee. I like it as breast on my routine. I know that's super weird, but I don't drink coffee. Oh, it's interesting. Every once in a while, I'll have one, but I really, it's not my thing. So I get up in the morning, just water. Okay.

And what time do you wake up? It depends. But like with the kids back in school, it's like 6-20. They okay, okay, me too. Okay, so how old are the kids again? You said they're... So they're about to turn the next ages, but the twins are going to be soft... They're sophomores in college now.

And Kat is going to... She's a junior, she's about to be 17, and Ace is seventh grader, and he'll be 13 in December, and the twins will be 20 in November. My God, they're old kids. Yeah. Wow. I can't believe it. It's such a good stage. Yeah, like that.

I love it. But don't you have like a life again in a lot of ways? Um, yeah, well, the school that they're at, like cat, she can't drive because the parking, I have to drive them again. I thought I was done with them. But yeah, but actually, I enjoy being in the car with them because you get like those conversations.

So anyway, so I basically drop them at school, go to the gym. It's the first thing I do. Unless I have an early morning meeting, I try to schedule everything. Yep, I'm with you. After, because I just want to get it done. And I don't care about being like, I have makeup on right now,

but usually I don't. So I get up, I'll work out, I'll take a quick shower, and throw my hair up, and just put my face cream on, and I keep going. Yeah, that's what I do too. Because look at your face, you're wearing very little makeup. What do you wear? I wear, so one of the products that we have is this,

it's a tinted moisturizer, but it's got skin ingredients in, but it honestly didn't sell that well, so we stopped making it, but I think I have like the last 10 bottles, I don't know what I'm gonna do when it's done. It looks good. Yeah, I know, it's good stuff. And that's tinted?

Hmm? Okay, but I believe in wearing as little as possible, as possible, like getting your skin to the right spot And like because you don't want to cover your skin right you want like something a little she want your skin to show through Yeah, well you have good skin though. Yeah, yeah, I want to know what you do I want to know like just art. It's just art. It's just and this is by the not a promo for her stuff I had no way she doesn't even talk about it. This is just me like I should talk about it It's not good. How would you not ever don't you like because how do you know why don't you talk about it?

I mean, I do it's just been so long. I feel like I don't know. It doesn't matter anymore So it does I mean it does it does I should do you talk you should yes, but you don't need to you've all these other things So like okay, I had another question and now I'm forgetting what I wanted to ask you about exactly to first thing is Are you shooting now thing is, are you shooting now? Like when you when you start again? No. So this was actually an odd year because we were done shooting in November, early November. Okay.

And so the show usually would have come out like in January. Right. Oh, yeah. So what's going on? I have no idea. out like in January. Right. Oh yeah, so what's going on? I have no idea that the powers that be at the network, you know, they schedule their shows appropriately and, you know, it's not just about our show, it's about all the shows and the programming and whatnot.

So this is when they were doing it. So what happens is, now you're going to watch the show because now you've got to see what everyone was saying about you. And then what happened? Yeah, and then you film the reunion. So they are just giving us all the final. Oh, so that's why you were saying you were getting reunion ready right now. So that's why I'm telling you I'm thin.

So partially I'm thin, particularly thin right now because the reunion and also partially because what happened with my husband, I'm like, I want to ask you, but I don't want to make you repeat yourself again, do I say it? Well, if you want to hear what happened to my husband, you can just go Google me, but basically he had stroke-like symptoms at a restaurant

and he had a TIA, which was caused by a hole in his heart. And it was such a deal and such a disaster and to get him to the hospital and the whole thing. And so thankfully, it was a very fixable problem and he already had the repair, like a couple days later. And he's good now. And he's good now. But the thing is, is that, I don't know if this is just,

I'm just gonna speak about women. You know, a lot of us are the glue for our family, right? So we take care of the kids and our spouses. And the household. The household. And even like the fun calendar calendar like all the things. And I think I think after it happened I went into shock quite frankly and I don't think I've come out of it. And so I think I was joking with you before but

we're shooting the reunion next week so by the time this airs it may have already been shot. We're shooting the reunion and then I always book a trip for a couple of days away from me and Terry went out the day after. Just to get away, check out process, whatever. And so I've scheduled my breakdown for that. I love you break down. I love that.

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Enjoy. What I wanted to, I have now, now I remember what I wanted to ask you was about your acting stuff. Like now that you've done the show, are you wanting to go back to acting? Have you had any opportunities while you've been on the show? Or like, is there a disconnect? Is it something now?

Like, because a lot of actors, like you said, come on the show, but have anyone from the show ever become an actor or done any other things? Oh, yeah, I think so. I think both of those things are true. I mean, Nini Leaks, although I think Nini was a performer before she came on the show, but you know, she's been on Broadway,

she's done a lot of things. You know, a lot of people have done that. And I think it's fantastic. Why not? So since I've been on the show, I've done like a few guest stars here and there, nothing huge, but what's sad to me, especially this season on the show, is

there's shit talking. My career, so by their playing up my IMDB, talking about my credits, like it's lame or it's been so many years since I've done anything, or they talk about me as if I walk around, talking about myself, like I'm Merrill Streep, or it's just very odd, and actually, on the episode that's airing tomorrow night, I just watched it. You know, they say I staged paparazzi photos at Disneyland. It's so stupid.

I don't even know how to do that, but that's a whole nother story. But anyway, and- Who's they, by the way? Who are these the girls on the show? The girls on the show. And so Tamra makes a comment. This is terrible.

This is terrible. It's terrible. She makes a comment in her confessional. She says, you're not an a-list actress. You never were. No one would want to take a paparazzi photo of you. And then you go like this. And by the way, that hurts me so much

because to answer the first part of your question, yes, I definitely want to, I want to do script it again someday. I don't know when. And on the show, it, the other girls talk about me or it makes it seem like it's imminently happening. My youngest kid is in seventh grade. I still have a lot to, you know, take care of, drive

and make sure everyone's okay. That I can't be on a set for like those kinds of hours, depending on what it is. Totally. So the answer is I don't know, it depends. But I'm not, it's not my, at the forefront of my mind, at the second, I just bought this house in Beverly Hills, I'm super excited about that I have to do a massive remodel on. And it's like there's a time-essent,

a time issue with it, with things that are going on in the city and whatnot. Anyway, so I have a lot of things going on right now. All fantastic, great things that I'm on in the city and what not. Anyway, so I have a lot of things going on right now. All fantastic, great things that I'm loving and interested in. But it's like, it's what we were talking about before, about people that just want to bring you down and press your buns. Like, I never said I was an a-list actress, but why do you have to point out that I'm not?

And, you know, it makes you go, what, how do I handle it? Do I post all the paparazzi photos that have been taken of me in the last year? Because there's a number of them. I mean, maybe not as much as Jennifer Lawrence, but, or JLo. Or JLo, who are a list, I'm clear,

but there are some, so clearly some paparazzi wants to take a photo. And by the way, I don't care if they want to take a picture of me or not. You do. And then these quote staged paparazzi photos, I'll show them to you. So someone wrote an article. There were rumors that Terry was cheating on me.

He's not. And by the way, this happened a few years ago also. What does no one ever think I'm cheating? I am cute. You're really cute. Like, come on. You are. Anyway. She's actually really cute and personalized.

Thank you. So, so, so. I'm sure there are guys after you. There's really not. But I'm just saying. I'm sure there is. But anyway, so they were saying like he's cheating. And so, Terry and I were at Disneyland.

And we're at Disneyland because it was my daughter's sweet 16 and that's what she wanted to do. And we were also celebrating that no one knew but we had just sold her house. And so, thank you. And it was kind of like an epic deal and whatever. So we were at Disneyland, we were drinking, we were laughing, we were hanging out. Drinking at Disneyland? Yeah, because at California Adventure there's bars.

Oh, I didn't know that. Oh yeah, in Marvel world you can get this huge pretzel. That's when you cheat. You get this huge pretzel and they have this like tequila drink. It's so good. Oh yeah. Anyway, so we're like drinking and laughing and walking through California Adventure and Disneyland

and I guess someone took photos of us. So someone wrote an article with the photos and they said, amidst cheating rumors, Jibros looking happy at Disneyland. Now, if you look at the five photos that this person took, three of them were like, sitting like on a bench

where he's looking in the distance could be mad, me making a bad vase. Like this, like, you very easily could have plucked one of those photos and written on amidst cheating rivers, unhappy at the happiest place, right? But they just want to hate.

But then what do I do? Do I post that? Do I leave it alone? Is there a faction of the audience that's going to think I staged popper? I mean, it's just so stupid. Why would it alone? Why would I do that?

Because people want to be famous and people want attention, that's why. But I already am famous. I'm already on a show. And what do they've said he's been cheating on me for years? What do I care now? Because people have to maintain their level of importance and level of fame.

We're living in a world where social media now, everybody wants 15 minutes of fame and then to maintain and then keep it going. That's where they go. But to your point with these other women on the show, these are not friends. Like this is what's scary about reality TV. Is that you have people like that

who are doing the same thing you're doing who are like, they should technically be compassionate and like be your buds, but it's competitive. And they want, they want to destroy you. Yeah, but think about real life. There's always one in the group. There's always ones. They always a rotten apple.

But that's why it's real life. It's a microcosm of real life. Yeah, it is a microcosm. And even though it sucks and it's aimed at me, it's like, how do you navigate it? How much can you just let brush off? And how much do you laugh off? Laugh off. You gotta laugh it off. Yeah, I mean. Is there one that's worst in others? Are they all just the same? Like who's the worst one? I can't say that. I mean, is there, you whispered in my ear. No, tell me off line. I'll tell you later. Okay, because I'm curious.

Because I don't, like, I'm just, I'm just fascinating. But that one person might be different for everyone. But, you know, I think my biggest problem right now with my show, I don't know if this is the same on other people's shows, but on our show, is that it's a little Trumpian in the fact that, am I gonna get a lot of shit for Zangina,

but it's a little Trumpian in the fact that if you might get a lot of shit for Zangina, but it's a little Trumpian in the fact that if you repeat something enough times, it's the truth. Yeah, by the way, that's what's everything in social media or anything in life. Again, it's like a microcosm. But it didn't used to be that. It used to be the truth was the truth.

And if someone was still, although, but like it reminds me of Hitler, I mean, it's just terrifying. It's all of it. It's people who have a, whoever's louder, bigger, who is more... Polarizing.

Polarizing. They get the attention. Yeah. Because it's the dopamine in our brains that we want to have. Like, our brains waking up to that. It's terrifying. But I do always feel like this.

Like, at the end of the day, I get to go home. And like, I don't mean like, to the house. Like, with... I know, I know. I mean the day, I get to go home. And like, I don't mean like to the house, like with. I know, I mean like, I get to go home. To your family. To my family. And I, I mean, I am so lucky. Like, I have the greatest husband. He's awesome.

And we have such a nice relationship. Like, we really, he's my best best friend. Yeah. We have so much fun together. And we were just, in the beginning of the summer, we had like a wedding at this, that we were like together He's my best best friend. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice.

He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice.

He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice.

He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. He's so nice. for almost three years together. Yeah, we really are. I swear, I think I love him more now. I think our relationship is involved into the coolest, greatest thing. That's amazing, even with the show, because I would think, I think you and I talked about it. That was our one bad year. We were fighting about, it looked like we were fighting about something else, but we were really fighting

about being on the show, because he thought, I was just talking to one of the other girls on the show about this, because it's so weird. He thought it was a joke. Tim, it was funny, because he thought, I was just talking to one of the other girls in the show about this because it's so weird. Like, he thought it was a joke. Yeah. Tim, it was funny because he's a doctor. Like, what does he care about being on a show? So he would press my buttons thinking it was funny.

Yeah. But like, you know, if your husband ever does that to in a dinner or something, later you're like, don't do that again, but it's on camera. It's on camera, yeah. And I would be like infuriated. That was a bad year. That's it. But even though, like, that's the worst of it.

But I'm saying like people's like there's very few relationships that make it through reality TV. Yeah, well that's we had to have a come to Jesus moment. That year I said to him, I go, look, we're fighting. It's not okay. And we have to figure out how to navigate this or I'm getting off the show. Because our marriage and our family

is more important than being on a TV show. But you've navigated it pretty well. Like the things that kind of like you're talking about, they're like pretty benign in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, you're right. Like you know like you're vocal about your kids, your vocal but like you know husband's career has taken off. You have all these other platforms and amazing things happening. You guys are still a unit. Your kids seem to be handling everything well. Yeah, they're good. You know, like, it didn't, like, how are they at school?

Are their friends like, oh my god, your mom or this? No, no, not really. You know what, I think people who know my kids know them. Yeah. But I think people would assume certain things about my kids. My kids are really normal. Yeah. They're really grounded.

I bet they are. I thought they would be with you, actually. They're like grounded. I bet they are. I thought they would be with you. They're just good kids. Normal good kids. They're normal good kids. And trust me, they have friends who have parents that are very famous. I was going to say, like, it's all relative. We live in LA and know that.

But you're out there very vocally with your children, talking about all of their, you know, everything about them in terms of either. That's a tough walk, I have to say, because, you know, my main job is to protect them, which I need to do, but I do have this platform. And, you know, we started this show, like when my youngest was nine months old, so, like, these kids have been known their whole life. The whole lot, that's what I'm saying. Like, that's what I'm saying, doesn't matter how the celebrity being an a-list, be-list, see-list, your kids are out there more than an a-list kid

would be with true things that are happening in their day-to-day lives. Right. And being talked about in gossip rags, is what I'm saying. It's a different situation. Yeah. It's not easy.

And so I do the best, I mean, the problem is, we can't move to another state and live off the grid. And I mean, these are like, these are our jobs. Exactly. And so. But you can, we don't want to. But like, I mean, he's gonna, where is he gonna be a plastic surgeon?

Like, I don't know. In Kansas? I guess. I'm not gonna happen. This is like the mecca. So. And still there's social media, like, you know, it follows you wherever you go.

So here we are. This is what our family is. And, you know, I'm just doing my best to protect them. But I feel like I was given these kids for a reason. And I want to protect them and take care of them. But I feel like part of my mission in life has become to take care of other people's kids too. Yeah. Well, great. You're using your platform for good. I know we've got a rap because we've got to, you got to go get your get your kids. One fat, your husband still actually practice surgery. He does surgery like that.

Yeah, but what's so crazy, we always joke, like he never sees virgin tissue anymore. He only sees the worst mess up. But what could have bought? Yeah, of course. He does all the hard, revisional surgery, but he loves it. You know what's so great? Seeing, you know, I remember there was a period of time where he was a little bit disillusioned with plastic surgery because you know He started off as a general surgeon. Yeah, because that's all right. Well, that's the classic way

I mean there's different ways to become a plastic surgeon But he was a general surgeon chief resident general surgeon and then plastic surgery chief resident plastic surgeon And so you know he started with gunshot wounds and all that kind of stuff. And then, plastics and doing reconstructive and whatever. And then he was in a practice where, you know, it was like women holding their eye, like a millimeter, second above millimeter, but I like it here.

I'm unhappy here. I'm happy here. I'm not on it. And he was like, oh my God, what am I doing with my life? And then when he started botched, it changed. It changed everything. Because he was fixing legit things. He was using his skills for like to really help people again.

It completely changed him. And he got so re-inverted. He loves operating. He loves what he does. He's such an incredibly smart, such a talented doctor. And he got so re-invited. He loves operating. He loves what he does. He's such an incredibly smart, such a talented doctor. And he loves it. That's amazing. He's the most enthusiastic guy.

My God, I love that. I need to meet him. Yeah, I got to meet Terry. Yeah, well, we'll go to dinner. OK, we have to. All right, I'll let you off there now. OK, so Heather, you're great. What's your podcast call?

Where do people find you if they don't know? OK, anything you want to know, you can go to HeatherDubrow.com. Everything is there, there's links to everything if you want to buy the console beauty. Yeah. This is a console beauty phase. And the podcast is called Let's Talk with HeatherDubrow and sign up for my newsletter. It's free. I give it all away for free. Perfect. Not a monetizer, apparently. I don't talk about my products. I don't get money from the links. I don't know. Nothing.

That's it. She makes money off just being Heather. It's like a donut. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Bye. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Hala Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire YAP Media, and host of

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