Habits and Hustle - Episode 29: Denyelle Bruno – CEO of Tender Greens, Believing in a Brand…and Also Karaoke

Episode Date: September 17, 2019

Denyelle Bruno is a successful executive and the current CEO of Tender Greens. In this episode, she talks about her career trajectory from Apple to Peet’s Coffee & Tea to Tender Greens, and how she credits her particular style of leadership for her successes. Denyelle shares with us the importance of branding, believing in your brand, and her love of karaoke.  Youtube Link to This Episode Denyelle Bruno https://www.tendergreens.com/ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail] 📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Vitamin water zero sugar just dropped in all new taste with zero holding back on flavor. You can be your all feeling. I'll play and all self-care you. Grab the all new taste today. Vitamin water zero sugar nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. I'm super excited about today's guest. Her name is Danielle Bruno and she is the CEO of Tendegrains and it is one of my favorite restaurants and I have like I've been I've loved it for many many years and in full disclosure you and I were sitting on a panel maybe a few months ago. I was moderating the panel of these really super successful women. And when I heard you, I basically did it because I saw your name on the list of who's going to be there.

And I was like, oh my god, 10 degrees. And that's basically why I wanted to be involved in the thing. Oh my gosh. Yes, that's how much I love the restaurant. Wow. And then I met you, and you blew my mind, because you were so normal and chill, and you didn't even have an air about you.

Like as people would think like, see you over of a company and we're gonna get into your background and all the other amazing places you were. And like, I just like really liked you. I loved your attitude. I loved the way you kind of carried yourself and spoke with people and I'm just really happy

to have you on the show. Thank you, thank you. It's a lot of pressure. Yeah, I know. You're expectations lot of pressure. Yeah, I know. You're expectations. I know. Well, listen, you've met and you've exceeded my expectations before the podcast.

So let's just start with, I guess, some background. I mean, obviously I said that you are the CEO of Tender Greens, which for people who don't know what Tender Greens is, it's called, how do you say it's a fast casual? California, fast or fine casual restaurant that has food made from scratch daily. Right, and it's very healthy. And probably one of my, like I said, might one of my favorites. So how did you become like, you're a woman, obviously, and obviously, and you have, you've

had a very successful career in very male dominated world Before even 10 green less human backtrack you were at Apple One of seven executives to I guess run the retail part Create the retail retail under Steve Jobs. So let's start with that like how was it to work with Steve Jobs at Apple? so it was I mean detail under Steve Jobs. So let's start with that. How was it to work with Steve Jobs at Apple? So it was, I mean, it was probably a lot like you would imagine. I mean, he's a genius.

I didn't work with him on a daily basis, but I did interact with him several times and incredibly smart, passionate man with a strong vision, also a complete asshole. Right. But I kind of have this rule where if you're super smart you're allowed to be an asshole. Like if you're an asshole and you're not smart to me that's unacceptable. I agree with that. So you kind of have a little bit more permission for somebody who has. Yeah because you know what? For him it wasn't really about ego. It wasn't just like I

want to be right. I'm important. It was, he had a really strong vision for what he thought the company should look like, what the product should look like, how we should represent ourselves, and he didn't want that compromised. And if he felt like it was compromised, it was like he would just, it would almost be like he would internally, you know, like combust or something.

So it wasn't just that he wanted to be right. It was just that he had this vision, and it was so pure that he really wanted it to come to life. And he didn't want people to prevent that from happening. But it wasn't really just that he wanted to be a superstar. I mean, I think that happened, but that was in his goal. I mean, that's, I don't know his inner thinking, but that was my impression. Did you mean, that's, I don't know his inner thinking, but that was my impression.

Did you have any kind of, is there any examples that you can think of, like of an interaction where his perfectionism was, that you saw, it happened in real life? Yeah, so, and it's funny, I mean, because, I mean, his outer appearance, I mean, he would wear, like, you're wearing cut off shorts, he would wear, you know, black t-shirts

and cut off jeans or jeans with like holes in them. And it wasn't even meant to be like a style thing. It was more just probably just easy because you just wore the same thing every single day. But there was one day, and I brought this up before there was one day when we were, so I was part of this group of seven people and we built this store. He picked you, which is,, so I was part of this group of seven people, and we built this store.

He picked you, was he the guy that said, I want these seven people to create the retail. No, I went through a pretty elaborate interview process with a lot of people. And really, I think the person of the final say and who the seven people were was Ron Johnson. Okay. And so we built this store inside this building.

And this building was on Bob Road in Cupertino. And it was totally secret, secured building. And we had been iterating on this store for almost a year before anybody even saw the first version of it. But he would come in every week and walk with us and talk about what he liked and what he didn't like. And this is, I mean, I don't know if it's obvious to everyone else, but this is before computer stores were cool. Right. I mean, like before before we opened the first Apple stores, you bought computers at like a Best Buy or to Comp USA and it was all about stacking boxes. Maybe the product was out

invisible, but often it was just stack boxes. So the idea of sort of boutiquing out a computer store was really different. Right, that's what made him so innovative and and and genius. Exactly, exactly. Does he have the ability to see things really before the rest of us? Absolutely. So, so it was, you know, very bout-y and the computers were laid out. Things like, you know, like he didn't want us to ever show any wires. This is before wireless. There were no wires were allowed to be seen.

So every single thing we built, we had to make sure the wires weren't visible. The floors had to be perfectly polished. I mean, everything need to be completely stacked up and like perfect lines. I mean, everything just needed to be perfectly neat and orderly. But one time, and we would even do things like, what do you think the material for this shelving?

And one time when we were all walking, and we all kind of just followed behind as you point things out. And he said, too, I believe it was one of the carpenters. He said, I don't like the grain of this wood. I don't like the direction that the grain is going. Can you try again but make the grain go the other direction? And the carpenters said, oh well, trees don't grow that way. And he was like, all right, then you're fired.

And the guy kind of looked at him and we all just kind of startled, like, is he? And the guy was paused and kind of like, like joking. Like you're joking. And then he goes, I'm not kidding, get out of here. And so the guy left. And then we just kept walking through. So I don't know what ended up happening with that guy. So that seems like absurd and crazy.

It is absurd and crazy. It is absurd and crazy, but the bigger message is, he was so particular and had such a vision. He wanted somebody to bring his idea to life, right? So it's like if you say, I want this to happen. I can either say, well, no, that can't happen. I did like the word no maybe too. Right. No, like, you know, I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, you're in business, the

word no is just great, right? So, you know, possibly he could have chosen different words. I don't know if it would have mattered, but possibly he could have chosen different words. Maybe he could have said, I think I know what you're going for. Let me try something. And you know what I mean? We've had to do that, right? I've had people say crazy things, and I'm like, I want to say you're out of your fucking

mind. Can I? Yeah, you could say whatever you want,'m like, I wanna say you're out of your fucking mind, can I? Yeah, you could say whatever you want, 100%. But you can't, right. So you're saying that the carpenter didn't maybe have the wear with all, to kind of just manage him a little bit and be like, yeah, let me look into it. Even though maybe it wasn't even possible. Or just like a get it or okay.

I'm trying to play again. Right, exactly. Like here you are in front of people saying no to somebody who has this amazing vision and is putting billions of dollars towards it. So I think it felt a little bit like it was about that, but it also felt like maybe a bigger message. I get that.

Now, he was a micromanager, then if he was coming in looking at every little detail like that, I would think that you would have a lot of interactions with him, even though. Yeah. He didn't, I didn't report him directly, so he probably really micromanaged Ron. I mean, there were very many times when we would all be in a room and he would get phone calls.

But my sense was that he had sort of pet projects, so when he was really excited about something, he really focused on that before he moved on to something else. And also maybe after somebody sort of proved that they could handle it. But I think there were certain things that really got his attention, projects that got his attention. But there's no way he could micromanage everything because we were at that point such a tiny part of the bigger business. Right, right, so it wasn't even existing yet. Yeah, I think he was just focused for a time when we were building that point such a tiny part of the bigger business. Right, right, so it wasn't even existing yet. Yeah, I think he was just focused for time when we were building it out.

Why find interesting is, before, of course, now, like I said, over and over again, that 10 degrees, 10 degrees. But your background with all these companies, all of them, had very strong brands. I mean, Apple was one of them. Pete's coffee was another that I saw. Dry bar, which of course is, blow dries for your hair.

What was the other couple that you had? What was it called? The design with the reach? Design with the reach. These are all are very, very brand, like very iconic. I could find it. I could find it.

I could find it. I could find it. I could find it. I could find it. I could find it. I could find it. I could find it. like very brand, like very iconic building, beautiful branding. Now, my question is, were you a part of the branding or do you pick companies to be involved with that have a very specific feel and touch and feel? Yeah, it's a great question. I would love to take credit for all of the brands. I would too.

That's what we're me. But no, in fact, somebody even made a comment the other day about, in fact, somebody even made a comment the other day about that I've been very successful in the companies that I've worked for. They've been turned around, or they've had massive growth. And what's the secret to my success? And I literally said, I just choose really good companies. So if that's a talent right there.

Well, I think it's a talent. But if I got a phone call to go work for a company where I didn't totally believe in the product or I didn't think the brand had either a cult following or the potential for a cult following, I wouldn't go. Because I think it would be very, very hard for anyone to take a business where the product is substandard or where the brand is mediocre and make it a wild success. So I have joined these companies.

Definitely at different stages, some before they opened, some in their early stages, some, you know, pizza joined when they were at 40 years old and they wanted to refresh the brand and open another 200 locations. So, I've joined the companies at different times in their maturity, but it was always with this notion that like, I was the customer there. I love the product personally. I love the brand and I can see that the brand had a strong trajectory.

So, that would be my selection process. So, what are you looking for exactly? So they already had some feel of an ability to kind of have some kind of like trajectory in the business. But like what exactly, I mean, is it too nuance for you to say this, this and that? Is it just a feeling that you got or? There's a little nuance to it, but I mean part of it is just that best in class, whatever product it is, whether it's coffee or computers or blowouts or food, like best in class. Another thing would be that there's some disruption quality to it.

There's something different about the business. It's got some major differentiator than other businesses like it. It's not another sort of me too business. Progressive company that really wants to appeal to maybe a younger or more aware audience, California is amazing. And I've really locked out because I haven't have been able to stay in California

I was I was born in California And that's not always the case for people, but California definitely is is helpful And then a brand that just has the capital to grow and the investors and the board that really wants to grow And that's usually my sweet spot. I can come in and say okay. I can scale this so piece coffee when you that just use as an example I'm a big piece drinker as well, I love it. What did you see differently in someone like them, for example? Apple, I got, people know Apple, we'll get to the other ones later, but what did Pete have specifically? So, it's interesting.

So, where I was working right before Pete's actually was a company called Pure Beauty. And I worked there. It was a sort of a high-end skin and hair company. We just had about 70 locations. I was the Vice President's doors there. And I was hired to turn around from the, this guy, Steve Hudson, from a group, Cameron Capital Capital bought the business with the idea that it was this great business that had just been run into the ground, and he wanted somebody to sort of turn it around. So he hired me.

I also thought there was a lot of opportunity to turn the business around within a couple years and sold it to Regis, Harris, London, Minneapolis. Oh, Regis, I remember them from the back when. So shortly after I started that job, I got a phone call from Pete. So I grew up in LA, but I lived in the Bay Area for about 15 years.

I did both undergrad and grad school there. And the whole time I lived there, I was a Pete's fanatic. Actually, there's a name for it. It's called a Pete Nick. That's really the name for it. Oh, okay, I never heard that. Yeah. So I was a Pete Nick, and during most of those years

to buy pizza coffee, you actually had to go to a pizza coffee store. You couldn't buy it in the grocery stores. Right, I remember that too. So I was a little bit of a coffee snob, and so I would go to the pizza stores, and I'd buy my coffee there, and I would get it ground, specifically for my machine, et cetera, et cetera.

So it was one of like a handful of things that I was sort of into. When I took the job at Pure Beauty, which actually was an LA, and I had to move from San Francisco to LA for the job, I got a phone call from Pete's within like three weeks of me starting that job saying, hey, we have this position. We would love for you to interview for it. And I was like, oh, I just took this other job.

I just moved to Southern California, but let's stay in touch. And I literally like, oh, I just took this other job. I just moved to Southern California, but let's stay in touch. And I literally stayed in touch with the recruiter there for the two years I was working at Pure Beauty. So when we sold Pure Beauty to Regis, they offered me a job in Minneapolis, which is like, oh no, I'm not moving to Minneapolis. Oh, I know, I'm from Winnipeg, Manitoba.

So I know Minneapolis. And the video guys from Minneapolis. Wow, you guys are brave. So see, if you guys are from there, then you are born with something that I was born with. Listen, you don't have to say it twice. I know, I'm living in California for a reason. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So I literally called Pete's back up and said, is there any way you'd still hire me? I don't know if that position's still open or a different position, but I really want to work there. And they hired me and they moved me back to the Bay Area. And I joined the funny thing about pizza. So to answer a question, the thing I loved about pizza is I really feel like I still think it's the best coffee.

I'm a dark rose coffee drinker. And I think it's the best coffee. So I liked it. I liked that it was sort of the Starbucks alternative. I loved that it was sort of created in Berkeley. What I didn't really totally realize that I'm until I worked there is actually Alfred Pete created the Arabic-a-dark roast coffee movement in the country. Actually Starbucks started by using Pete's coffee beans. They weren't even roasting their own coffee, so they bought Pete's coffee for a long time.

So when I joined Pete's, I was just like, this is the coffee brand. And I thought they were so amazing, but they were operating in such a tribal mentality. The funny thing is, even though I think when I got there, they had maybe 100 locations. They had been around for 40 years, but they had no process or systems because they were afraid that if they got too operational,

that they would turn into a Starbucks. So they would use that edge. They would use that edge, the thing that made them cool. And I think probably people would come in before me and they really tried and they failed because they were like, oh, you're just too corperty. So I think because I had come from Apple, they sort of trusted me with the brand a little bit more. Like you came from Apple,

what could you possibly do to hurt our brand? And I mean, as you've observed, I hurt, you know, our brand? And, I mean, as you've observed, I mean, I'm not the typical corporate person. Well, 100% that's not at all. And that's why I think that in itself, you fit there so perfectly just from an outside perspective, me looking in, right? Because you seem like the brand, you seem like you would feel that, like you seem like the brand. Like you, yeah, no, and I feel like that. And I feel that way.

And you know what, that is kind of what these brands, that would be the through line is that I feel a certain sense of like, I get the brand, I get the consumer, I know what they're doing, I know what they're trying to do, and I can help, and that's kind of my vibe. Keep coming back, you got plenty of space. Oof, not how you would have done that.

You like working with people you can rely on, like USAA, who has helped guide the military community for the past 100 years. USAA, get a quote today. This episode is brought to you by Vonage. Is your business ready to integrate live video chats into your app? The Vonage Video API makes it simple for developers

to build custom solutions that make sense for your business. From providing faster tech support and better customer service to hosting more productive meetings and classes, live video enhances every conversation. Go live on your terms with Vonage. Learn more at Vonage.com. So what would you say your superpower would be when these companies come to you? You said you mentioned a little bit.

You touched upon a little bit as like you come in and you turn it around a bit like you're a turnaround person that helps or expand the companies like I know 10 I don't think 10 degrees is a turnaround obviously. What do you think that your greatest superpower, could be one, it could be two, it could be 10 things that you do really, really well? I think if I were to boil it down to the most important thing,

I would say leadership. I think the way I lead is very specific. And I think for these scenarios and these types of businesses, I think my leadership style really works. I hire the smartest, best people. I try very hard to hire people who are smarter than I am in every category. And then I get out of their way, and then I consider my job to just move obstacles out of their way.

And I believe that we're all going to succeed together. And I believed in what, you know, some called servant leadership before I even knew what servant leadership was, which is basically servant leadership. Oh, servant leadership. And I'm not. What is that?

So we know. Servant leadership is basically that my entire job is to make the people who work for me successful. It's not their job to make me successful. My job is to make them successful, because then by definition, they're going to make me successful. And so, and if you talk to me, it works for me.

It sounds very sort of touchy-feely. I'm not a touchy-feely person either. I'm just super transparent. And it's sort of,y-feely. I'm not a touchy-feely person either. I'm just super transparent. And it's sort of, I guess it's amazing, but a little bit sad that my super power might be sort of transparency and honesty, but it's true. And I think so many people are surprised by that, that they appreciate it.

And they never want to work for anyone else, because they're like, I know what you want, and you're very clear about it. And you're authentic. That's what I said at the beginning of this podcast. Like what, why I gravitated to you, you know, even like if you didn't know I did, but I did.

I did. Was that, like you had that authenticity, that realness that like would make people want to be around you, that like, I guess people, I feel, don't see it very often, unfortunately, right? So when they do see it, it's really appealing. Yeah.

And they want to be around it. And so, okay, so you're saying, you're saying what makes you a good leader is that you hire really well. You hire the smartest. I hire really well. And I'm a good communicator. You're a good communicator. Okay, so how do you, how do you delegate them? Like, what is the process to'm a good communicator. You're a good communicator. OK, so how do you delegate them?

What is the process to be a good leader? So if someone's like a nonchup, you know, starting out they're an entrepreneur, they're like a new CEO. How do they hone their leadership skills? Well, I mean, obviously, different people have different styles that work for them. For me, it's really figuring out what the intention of the company is first.

What's the company setting out to do? Is it a turnaround situation? Is it, you know, Apple when I got there, Apple computer sales were 4% of all computer sales, so the market penetration was really low. So a big part of the mission there was just to awareness of the brand and the quality of the product. If it's creating a new brand that doesn't exist, if it's a new way of doing things, if it's like tender grains, we want to grow the business and we want more people in the world to eat real, whole, good food. So it's like what is the bigger sort of vision

of the company, what's it trying to accomplish? And so once you understand what the company's trying to accomplish, you figure out what the resources are, what the required resources are to accomplish that. And that's capital, that's people, that's systems. to accomplish that. And that's capital, that's people, that's systems. And then you go out and find the people that are really great at that thing. So when I went to tend to reenzo, I'll be honest, I actually replaced the entire executive team within the first two months. Really? Yeah. Because they were great people, and I, you know, if any of them are hearing this, I mean, I, you know,

I am not a big fan of allowing people to stand roles that they won't be successful in so I again I'm just very not to get about it and I have to say this you know this is what we need here this is the job that's required and it's not your strength right and so go find that thing and be wildly successful somewhere. Is that honesty though, you just finished saying that honesty is what makes you successful? Right, so you're seeing something, you're observing what was working, not working, and then like you're just saying to someone, listen, this is not your pet, this is not what you're good at, go find something that you're having.

Go find something else. Yeah, so the team that was there helped bring the brand to where it was, which was great, iconic brand, but it wasn't the right team to take it to the next level. So I brought in a new team of people and the guy I hired. One person I kept was the CFO, and she's also a woman. So female CEO, CFO. She's recently dubbed herself sort of the nuclear cockroach because she's like been sticking around.

But she's incredibly skilled and we have a great relationship and she actually was gonna quit when I started because she wanted the job. And she was like, I really wanted the job. And she was really, she was like, I wanted the job. You she was like, I really wanted the job. And she was really, she was like, I wanted the job. You got the job and I'm happy for you, but I'm going to leave and go somewhere else.

And I was like, OK, I understand. And then we got to know each other, even before I started working there. And before I started, she called me up. And I was like, OK, I'm going to stick around. It was like, great. I was like, we're going to do amazing things. So she stuck around.

But then the guy I hired for marketing also liked me, didn't have a restaurant background. He was the head of branding for Adidas. And so he just, you know, he had this energy and this vision and this idea and this way of building a brand that I was like, okay, he's the right person. And I also liked that he didn't come from restaurants because what I learned in coming to the restaurant industry

is the restaurant industry, generally speaking, is sort of woefully behind from a technology standpoint, from a marketing business standpoint. So I wanted somebody who'd really been part of building something amazing and just you know just kind of built the team that way and said you know like what are your ideas and how can we make this work and we have a meeting each week where we talk about our plan. At the beginning of every year, we create our strategy. We figure out what that looks like. You know, one mistake I see everywhere

and even when I came to Tendorans, I was like, what's, let me see your strategic plan. And it was like 30 things. And I was like, oh my god, like this is too many. Get it down to like three. And they were like three. That's impossible. I was like, get it down to three.

Right. And so really figuring out what the most important things are each year and getting people to align to that. But at my meetings, I have a lot of really strong personalities. A lot of people who are really good at what they do. And I like when there's friction, we have knockdown dragout sometimes at our meetings. You do? Yeah. Yeah, because I like when there's friction, you know, I mean we have like knockdown drag out sometimes at our meetings. You do?

Yeah. Yeah, because it's, I like it. I think it's, I think it's awesome. And I mean, even it directed at me because I'm like, look, if I have an idea and I'm like gung ho and we're going to go do something with that. Are you passionate about it? I'm passionate about it, but it's a bad idea and you're like, well, you're the CEO, so I'm just not going to say anything. That's a disaster.

That's so true. So I'm like, if I have an idea, and one of you was probably not a great idea, you are required to say something. Right. You're required to say something. And I can veto it. But if I don't have the opportunity to at least hear your concerns, like, you know how you go around?

I mean, I go around all the time to stores and restaurants and places. And I'm like, whose idea was that? Who let somebody get that to you? Oh, you know how you go around, I go around all the time to stores and restaurants and places and I'm like, whose idea was that? Who let somebody get that to your long term? You know, all the time. And I'm just like, it's like my biggest fear that, you know, to do something and have people be like, did nobody think about that? Exactly. So, it's like, I'm not alone going to be able to identify those things, but I have really

smart team, somebody's going to be able to catch it. Absolutely. And also, what you just said was interesting. And I tend to agree that you pick someone ahead of marketing is from Adidas, not from the restaurant business, because you feel, and maybe obviously you do, that if you're good at something, if you're good at something, it doesn't matter what industry. You can take that same skill set and plant it

in a different industry, right? Because if you're excellent at marketing, then that's your skill. You can take that and do it somewhere else, right? I think there are translatable skills that really, but I mean, obviously, if you're trying to be a doctor, you probably shouldn't like, I'm not saying build a house. But, right, right, right. But yeah, but I think there are. I think there are some really important competencies that translate across industries.

And I think if you're a smart person, and I mean, look, I say my skill is leadership, but I think my skill is really just like connecting with people, you know, connecting with the consumer, connecting with the employees. And so that I can take anywhere, right? So I think with marketing, it's about understanding the consumer, it's about understanding how people respond to things, it's about understanding the consumer, it's about understanding how people respond to things, it's about understanding the landscape, it's about understanding what people respond to, it's about understanding what noise is out there and when you should like, you know, turn up your volume or turn it down, I mean I think if you know those things and you have

a sense of it and you're good, then yeah, you can take that from place to place. More with our guest, but first a word from our sponsor. Is there something that's standing in the way of your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals? If so, better help online counseling can be a great option for you. It's super convenient and you get the help you need on your own time at your own pace. They have licensed professional counselors that are specializing everything from dealing with depression, anxiety, relationships, and so much more. Everything you share is confidential, and if you're not happy with your counselor for

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That's betterhelp.com slash habits. So what makes you okay so the how did that how did you become this person right like what I mean taking this skill set of being a good leader from place to place and the company to company. What like how did you how did you become this person? What's your back like before? Yeah. What's your background before you became the successful professional basically? Yeah, so what I would say is I probably have had the really rough skill set my whole life.

And so really for me it's been like a lifetime of like honing it and polishing it and massaging it. But like the raw me, like out of the womb was probably not that different than this, you know, more like, how you are now. Articulate me. Yeah, but, um, you know, I think I was definitely one of those kids early on that was, um, uh, as Tina Fey would say, bossy, you know, bossy. I had strong leadership skills as a kid.

I was, you know, I was very controlling with my friends. So I think I just naturally have those tendencies and, you know, at my age, I really believe and I have two young kids and I think there's a lot that are just like, you just are born with and that, you know, I think the natural environment sort of shapes what you're born with, but I think you're we're born with.

You're in 8-5. This is in 8-5. You had these qualities. So, I was always like that, and then sort of outspoken, opinionated, a little bit controlling. I don't know why you would like that. Also fun and interesting. Yeah, I think it was very playful. I feel like, you know, really a blessed good or maybe...

You don't seem stuffy at all. That's the word. No, not at all. You may have a strong personality and, you know, maybe controlling. But, like, you still seem like cool and like... You seem very like, I hate this work. It makes me sound like a hundred years old hip. But you do seem like a hip, fear of you hip Thank you. I feel like I'm okay good But I you know, I'm not controlling anymore. I think I was controlling as a kid just because nobody was able to do anything

Right right so I had to tell them how to do it I was making them better that makes sense to me I mean I have no anybody else, but I get it. I totally get it. I can see that. Vitamin water just dropped a new zero sugar flavor called With Love. Get the taste of raspberry and dark chocolate for the all warm, all fuzzy, all self-care, zero self-doubt you. Grab a With Love today.

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Services and availability vary by location, age and other restrictions may apply. For coverage, consult your health insurance company, visit the pharmacy or our site for details. So then what is your, like besides that, like you were saying off camera, like you know, you had some like, some struggles or like how do you as a child that maybe have like shaped for sure.

For sure. So I didn't want to ask off camera. No, no, no, no, this is all live. Exactly. So, so I had these, you know, this personality as a kid, and then my parents got divorced when I was 12. And my father was a homicide detective, and he was a bit crazy. You know, alcoholic, had some violent tendencies, womanizer, you know, really, like actually a really fun guy. I mean, like, honestly, it was like a really fun guy, but probably not amazing to be married to. Well, I was going to say, you don't hear that as a occupation

very often, like very rarely do you hear like, I'm a homicide detective. I was going to say, that's a cool job. It sounds like it's a a cool job except for you, you know, you're looking at dead bodies every day. But it's more the fact that it's not your every day, hey, I'm a, you know, an accountant, a teacher, like a homicide detective, like that's going to like, that's going to make me inquire about like, really? 100% what's happening. Totally. That was the worst thing to have the best thing. Totally. I mean, he was a very interesting guy. But how can he do the job if he was in alcohol,

though, didn't that kind of, oh my god, buck with his ability to. I'm pretty certain it's like a criteria for the job. I would probably imagine that. Yeah, that's right over here. Unfortunately. Yeah, so I think, I mean, I'm pretty sure I can say this because he died a week ago, which is a weird thing to say and it's shocking, it's on air.

But I haven't talked to him in 30 years, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, but you know, I mean, I think that my parents partied a lot and had a lot of friends over very social. They did drugs and I'm sure they were all things that he probably got from work. I can't believe your dad died a week ago. I'm sorry. I know. But you have to be careful. I'm not psychotic.

I'm laughing. But I actually really had to process this. So Anne Spoken-Toman 30 years, my youngest brother developed a relationship with him about eight years ago and started reconnecting with him. But I haven't spoken to him. Well, what happened? So when my parents got divorced, we spent time with my dad.

My mom had full custody of us. But we had a beach house in Carpenteria near Santa Barbara. And he would pick us up, and we would go to his beach house. And he was a really crazy time because this was like 30 years ago. And he would pick up my mom and he would come pick us up and he'd like have his like, you know, outy sports card and he'd be like drinking. And my mom would call the police and just be like, you know, he'd just picked up our kids and he's going to be driving them on highway 126 and they just be like, you know, he just picked up our kids and he's gonna be driving them on Highway 26 and we'll

go on. They'd be like, I think, you know, he's fine because he was a cop. And back then, that was like, yeah. That's so true, yeah. So they really wouldn't do anything. So she was kind of helpless, which now is a parent. I'm like, oh my God, that must have been terrible.

But, you know, he drove with like a gun in his, what's it called? In his glove compartment. glove compartment. Yeah. So she's like, here's this guy. He's been drinking. He's driving on this highway with my young kids. And there's a guy in there.

So anyway, that wasn't the problem. That wasn't the problem. That wasn't the problem. OK, what was the problem. That wasn't the problem. That wasn't the problem. Okay, what was the problem? So, we would go hang out at our house at the BH, and it was actually incredibly fun. I had a really good time. He would take me, we would go to the local liquor store, and he would get a bunch of quarters in roles, and then he would buy like whatever he's drinking probably gin and and he would get me a little bottle of peppermint

schnapps and I was like I don't know 12 or something and 13 and we'd go the arcade and play a video game so would you be drinking that? Yes, well yeah you were like not so you were like mint so were you like drinking with your dad at age 12 basically? Yeah, it was super fun. Yeah. So when we played video games and like, and it's like he had all these quarters. So anyway, so it was fun with, so another anecdote just because it feels like this is exciting

to you. There was, there was this time he took me to, and eventually I'm going to, like my goal is to someday write a book about this stuff because I think there's something here. But, yeah. This is exciting. this is interesting actually. He took me to this beach in Santa Barbara that's a nude beach and we went above on this bluff. And he brought binoculars and we just sat on the hood

of his car and looked at nude people on the beach and listened to music. And I was like, this is the coolest thing. So anyway, so- We would drunk the at that point. I mean, we're- Of course not, that would be outrageous. Right, so- We would rank to at that point, like, I mean, like, we're- Yeah, of course not, that would be a region. Right, outrageous.

That would be terrible. So that's Chris, so did, so how long was this going on? So we had this fun, so we had a lot of fun for many years. And, but here's the problem, those things were actually not the problem, and those things also did shape me, and I think in a way that I actually appreciate. The problem was when we spent time together, he would talk a lot of shit about my mom. Like he would just say terrible things about her. And I was very close to her, obviously, as most

kids are. And they were like now again, as an adult, I really say there were totally inappropriate things to say. Just really mean things. And so when I would go back, when the weekend was over, I would have all this anger towards my mom and I would be confused and I wouldn't know how to handle it. And when I started getting older, probably like closer to 16, I started to realize that this was not a healthy way for me to be interacting with a parent.

And that when I'd come home from these visits, I would feel terrible. And it would take me like the whole rest of the week to get over. And so one day I was just like, I'm just not going to talk to him anymore. I'm just not going to hang out with him anymore. Just one day?

Just one day. And then I didn't. And like he made overtures. He wrote me a few letters because we didn't have cell phones then and But I was like no I'm good like I You were 16 it was I was on the 16 And so then what happened he didn't so he made The jurors and then what so he still hung out with my young I had two younger brothers

He still hung out with them for a little while, but My mom started seeing somebody seriously. And he just eventually just disappeared. So then you never, okay, so then you never spoke to him for 30 years after that? No. And so he was hospitalized. So I think he died. Yeah, he died. We could go. No, no, it was more like three weeks ago. Oh, he was more like three weeks ago. He was going to go long, time ago, like three weeks ago.

And but like he was hospitalized a week before, and it was kind of like, you know, but the thing is, my brother had reconnected with him about eight years ago, and they actually had a relationship or had a relationship. And once my youngest brother reconnected with him, I got to learn more about him. And so my fantasy of him really changed because when I last saw him, he was this like, you know, good looking ladies man, grew up a Harley, made stained glass, you know, his drummer and a band, you know, just party or fun guy.

And then, so in my mind, he was always that guy and I was like, that was a cool guy. And then when my brother reconnected with him, I learned that he wasn't those things at all and he was living in Texas. And there's just, we were very, very different type of people in the world. And just, I mean, our politics, our approach to life, like, you know, I got to look at his Facebook page because my brother was, you know, and I was just like, we have nothing in common. And I would rather just keep those memories in this little box and not expose them to this other person that I don't know anyway.

And so for me, it was just a lot more comforting and maybe romantic to just keep things there. But when it's a quality in you that you were able to like shut him, it keeps your father, it's not like he was like some kid at school, right? That one day you're able to like, shut him, a kisser father, it's not like it's like some kid at school, right? That one day you were able to turn that off in your brain and be like, you know what?

I'm not going to do this. He didn't hurt you, right? Like at all. It was just you were having fun with him, but you, something in you, and you just decided one day, not to like, talk to him, and like, you were able to shut it down, like that. What's that, how?

What's that quality? And I guess the quality is like ROI. I mean, I know that sounds super weird, but like I mean, I think I'm always evaluating the return on the investment of anything. So if I'm putting my energy into something, then I'm going to figure out whether net net, it's positive for me.

So you are all in or all out type of person, right? 100%. So either you're like, right, so that's why I find interesting. Even like, so you didn't even think maybe I'll talk to my dad or like tell him I don't find this to be appropriate and change the kind of relationship we have. No, because I'm insightful. Right. And so, and I'm just like, I already could like, play out in my mind how that would have

gone. And I knew it wouldn't go well. It's not that I don't want to give people a chance, but he wasn't the kind of person who would have changed his approach. It would have been impossible. So when I kind of played out, okay, so what would be decisive? Next up be, it would be like, no, it doesn't make sense. How I would say that would be good for you in business

Is that you're extremely decisive? I am extremely and when you make a decision You make a decision and you stick to it obviously if you could do that with your father for 30 years and then some right? Yeah, you could do it with anything. Yeah, so like that to me is like how I would think it kind of but what how did that experience shape you 30 years later or like 20 years later? So um basically I'm gonna wait a minute, I'll do it. Oh, I got terrible allergies myself. It's crazy. I'm on a lot of it. You never do that. I like it. Don't worry. Um, yes, we won't we won't even show that part. They'll show me you blur it out or something. Yeah, no, you don it. So it's all right. That's the real deal. Real nose wiping out. Yeah.

So how it shaped me is, so I mentioned this in the panel we're on. Like I don't believe in rules. I don't really feel guilt because it's just like a waste of energy. It just feels like, you know, like, I'm gonna make a decision and then regret my decision, then beat myself up over it. And that's like, it seems like a terrible waste of energy. So, you know, when,

you mean, that's not guilt though. That's more like you don't like, you don't like, second guest, you don't say, in guest your decision or you don't dwell on shit that's happened already. Well, the part that makes it sort of maybe guilt adjacent is that, you know, maybe you get more information and somebody's like, oh shoot, like I shouldn't have done that. And I'm like, no, based on the information I had at the time, that's the decision I made now.

I have new information. Yeah. time that's the decision I made now I have new information. And so how it really has affected me so you found out earlier to your shock and amazement that I'm a lesbian. Yes, listen, the only reason why I was shocked was because you've never mentioned it like or I never saw it. I don't know, I wasn't shocked but I was kind of shocked just because like people I don't know. I wasn't shocked, but I was kind of shocked just because like people would, I would think that you'd say, um, I don't know. Maybe I don't know why it was shocked actually.

I have no idea why. I mean, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know you had a husband until I was, I know. I honestly, there's no reason. I was, I guess I just didn't know it, you know. I was actually shocked that you were heterosexual. Really? I'm just kidding. I'm like, maybe some would be.

I mean, I don't know. No, it wasn't that I was shocked. I was more just like, oh, I didn't know that I was new. Oh, yeah, exactly. There's more just in surprise. Like, oh. Right, like I'm Canadian. Yeah, exactly.

Like I would have shown that same type of enthusiasm if you said I was Canadian. Because I'm Canadian, right? Or like if you said, you know, whatever you were, you know, it's just because you're like, I get very enthusiastic and excitable. I guess I get excited easily. Yeah, that's it. Well, I'm, I, maybe I should be more forthright with my gayness, young four, I'll keep that in mind.

Yes, no. I'll lead with my gay. No. So, the way this is played out is, so I have a wife and we have two almost six year olds. You have two almost six year olds? Yeah, a boy and a girl they're twins. And we started out with very different parenting styles. And this is not something that we could have ever guessed because we both met, we were both a little wild and crazy and sort of outrageous, challenge the dominant paradigm. And then when we got married and we had kids,

she was like, okay, we're parents now, and we're gonna act like parents. And I was like, oh, I didn't know we were gonna do that. Right, right, right. And I was like, you've totally changed. And she was like, you totally haven't. And I was like, This is the conversation, by the way,

that people have all, this is the problem that people have all the time. I bet. Like, all the time. I don't think I've had no one couple or I don't care if you're heterosexual, not what I'm, but who cares? Everyone deals with this issue.

Right. Right. So what happened? So, I mean, I don't believe in rules. And I think, you know, Christ Christine, my wife, she came from, like her family was like the opposite of my family, right? Like she came from this like, you know, very upper middle class, white,

sophisticated, highly educated, very successful family that did everything right. And they also had three kids and so on. And I won't go into too many details about her story because that's hers to tell. But basically, what I learned is that the product of our parenting, or I guess our being parented, and the product of our life and growing up,

didn't make one of us better than the other. I mean, she's more successful at some things. I'm more successful at other things. I think a lot of the difficult times I went through actually really built resilience in me. I think the difficult time that my mother had through the divorce, I think I ended up playing this role where I found myself always trying to make her laugh

or help her see the bright side of things. And I think that ended up sort of becoming part of who I am. I'm a wildly optimistic person all the time. I'm somebody who never dwells. I'm like, I don't complain ever. And it's not like I don't complain because I'm a doormat. I don't complain because I'm like,

well, I have my arms, my legs, I'm walking, I'm, you know, I'm, you know, I'm, I can add it to you. So I have, you know, so, and I feel like, I don't know exactly how I just, I have, you know, so, and I feel like, I don't know exactly how I became who I am, but certainly grit and challenge and things not being ideal. I think can actually help season and develop a kid. And so where she wanted them to have this very sort

of cookie cutter life, and I think there's some of it is, there is some of it to be in gay, like, well, if we're gonna be, you know, lesbian parents, we need to be excellent parents, and like we're gonna be lesbian parents, we need to be excellent parents, and we're gonna be role models. So maybe some of it is that. But for me, I was like, no. Do you see that, though,

in your community then, or? Strangely, strangely, I haven't seen it. I haven't really seen it that much with gay people. Like I'm saying it, like I've seen it, but I don't really think I've totally seen it. I have seen it with like immigrant parents or like second generation where there's a little bit of that, like wanting to fit into like being like American.

I haven't seen it too much, but I feel like that was like that with her a little bit. Yeah, that was the time. Like, with the family, like, you know, we can do everything like you guys. So, but for me, whether I was, you know, with a woman or a man or anything, like, I just don't believe in those rules. So if you don't believe in rules, does that mean you don't believe in kids having a routine, structure, or where does it where do you mean by rules or do I draw the line yeah where does the line drawn especially

with kids yes so where I draw the line is if somebody says like you should or shouldn't do this right like for me like there's got to be some proof to it. Like if somebody says, if I learn that kids having routines is actually helpful to their development, then I will do my best to provide a routine for them, right? So do they have a routine? Yeah, they told me okay. Well also, Christy's a stay at home mom and she's, you know, very, very, very good at that stuff. So, um, but when it comes to like values, good or bad, or things that could be oppressive, like, oh, you shouldn't do that because it's not any of that.

And that's where I get a little weird. Okay, that, okay, that makes more, that makes sense though. So it's not just like a free for all, right? It's not like that. It's just more, but okay, so give me an example, give me one of those examples. Don't do this or that. Okay. So it sounds like you have an open mind, if anything. It just sounds like you're very open-minded and you're willing to listen to something that's opposing than what people, you don't just take something

for a face value, is what it sounds like to me. I don't take something for face value, and I just considered possibilities, right? So, okay, one example would be arguing in front of your kids. Okay. So, you know, Christy might say, well, you know, we can't argue for the kids. I'm like, no, they should hear different points of view.

I mean, if we're not being mean or insulting each other, like I think it's helpful for them to know that you can have contrary points of view. And I think that will help them shape who they are and develop their points of view. Right, right, right. You know, things like socializing or drinking, you know, it's like some of my best times

where when my parents had huge parties and you know they would you know relegate us to like a bedroom and we would be in the bedroom watching a show but then we would want to sneak out to go like me those were really fun times. Exactly. So it's also because it's all experience based. It's like your experience was a positive so you're just taking that right and it's living with you in your adult life. That's right. Right. That's right. So some of those things that somebody might assume were bad actually for me were very helpful in developmental.

So I'm like, I don't know, maybe there are more of those things. You know, I think. You're a product of your environment in a little bit, right? Yeah. I think like anybody is, right? For sure. So then how do you balance? I hate that, because I feel like everyone

always had a good balance in your life and parenting. But do you have tricks or tips to kind of balance, especially when we're talking about you have a different parenting style? That comes with a whole other laundry list of stuff that happens at home. Sure. Then you have work. It's not like you're a coordinator or you're running a company that's, quickly. So I don't balance. Thank God you said that. Yeah, I don't really believe in balance. I think it's a myth to be honest with you. Well, it's it's it's a myth and it's like it's sort of a pre-assumed goal. For me, the goal is imbalance. Right. For me, the goal is like living, like the whole thing being all that are being all out. So for me it's like if I want to do something and it's important to me then I'll do it because if I don't do it I'll be resentful

about it right. If I don't want to do something if I get invited to an event and I don't want to go then I'll just say no sorry I'm not into it. And I don't feel guilty about it because I'm like well if I go and I don't want to go, then like, like, I'm going to show up there. Don't you? I mean, I feel like I do that all the time, though. I feel like I'm always doing stuff that I don't want to do because I feel like this internal obligation. You don't get that feeling? No. I mean, sometimes with work, I will just because I, it's like, okay, I know, like, I know

I should go on this, like, habits hustle, but I was waiting for that. I mean, I think for work, there are definitely times when it's like we all have to do things we don't want to do, whatever that is, and we all have a different list of those things. But in my personal life, no, I don't, because I always want to be the best version of myself. And it's if that's being compromised because of resentment or like feeling like I'm missing out on something or because I, you know, I don't want to get in trouble. Like whatever those things might be, then I'm just going to compromise who I am

and then like why even be alive. Right. Listen, I'm hearing everything you're saying. I tend to agree with a lot of it. So then what did you have, what's your schedule like? Like give me a day in the life of you. Like what do you do? Some do wake up.

What do you do for routines and habits? And I wake up at exactly 6 a.m. every day because that's when my son wakes me up. I go to complete clockwork. And then I will go make coffee and then I'll come upstairs and both kids will get in bed and they'll be allowed to watch one show in the morning in the morning it has to be a PBS kids show okay let's show did they like to watch they right now they're really into that's just my personal curiosity. Yeah, right now they're really into... Well, they

really love super monsters and they really love Molly of Denali. Oh, really? Molly of Denali, yeah. So, yeah, that's so about that girl and Alaska. So, and then I'll like look at my phone for a little while just to see if I miss anything urgent. And then if it's a good day, I'll go for a run around the lake. I live by, I'm in Silver Lake Resort. And then I'll come home, go to work. And then, what time do you start work?

I'm in the office usually around 9. And then what time do you leave around? Wholely different every day. Every day. You work from home sometimes? Like what's your, like what does the day, I wanna know because you seem so like, you seem so casual.

Like I feel like, if I didn't know any better, I don't know. I would think that you were like just like kicking it here and you're better like, I don't know, like just, I don't know what I would think kicking it here and you're better at like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm thinking. I know what you're saying, and then because other people say it. But I don't have even my team,

I don't really care where they are, what they're doing. No, I'm just do the job, do it really well, get it done on time. So it's like, people don't tell me when they're gonna be in the office and when they aren't. So you're not micromanaging, that's not your style. Oh my god, no.

So what I get, you're super decide from this podcast, I would say that your leadership style is you're very decisive, right? Yes. You don't dwell on on anything. Whenever you make a decision, it's what it is and that's what it is. Yep. What else? You hire very, very well and you don't micromanage.

You stay out of the way. You stay out of the way and just help with obstacles. These are really great. These are great tactical things people can take as a leader. It will work for you. And you really don't have much of a routine that's like I have to meditate every day. I have to eat broccoli and spinach at 11 o'clock. Like you don't have anything like that.

No. Are you fanatic a little bit eating tender greens every lunch? Well, I don't have tender greens. No, no, no, no, no, no. I do, well, we cater into the office. So, when I'm in the office, did you like, did you love it before? I ate at 10 degrees three days a week before I started working at Friars.

So by the way, before you worked at Pete's coffee drink, before you worked at 10 degrees, you were at 10 degrees a year, did you go get your hair blown out of the dry bar before you worked at dry bar? That's the only exception. So like I was an Apple user before Apple, that's the only exception. My hair is pretty easy. It looks great though.

I thought for sure that you were always cute. Thank you, Lila. Still a... Thank you, no, this is all me. Wow. I mean, I learned some tips and tricks. I was gonna know how I would think so. But this is tough for me because obviously I spent many, many years

there selling the dream. But I think for people who have very difficult hair, and a lot of people have really difficult hair, and they don't want to take the time to do it. And so driving to a dry bar and getting a blow out is worth it to them. Sometimes they're working and like, yeah, lawyers were like, I'm making money doing this.

So I think it's very useful or for people going to events or things like that, but my hair's pretty easy. And so when I work to drive our, I would get lost. But even then, even though I could get a lot whenever I wanted, I didn't get them as often as most people, just because my hair's not that hard to do. Right. But I understood it.

I mean, I'm not like a super high maintenance woman, but I am into hair. I really into hair products, and I've always cared about my hair. So it was something I understood. But I haven't gotten a blow out since I left. Well, OK, listen. I have one today, but I never do. I'm very much on natural with us, too.

It looks natural. It looks. Well but I never do. I'm like very much neck. Oh, natural with us. It looks natural. Well, I look forward. I'm so sick of having the same look. I mean, I feel like I am Steve Jobs. Like I wear the same thing every day at Black shirt. Like I have no I try it was much stuff on autopilot So I don't have to think about it. I only smart. I wear the same thing every day. I eat the same thing Like every single breakfast is the same thing every day. I eat the same thing, like every single breakfast is the same, every lunch is like a couple different options. Just, I don't wanna think about stuff like that. It's just, it kind of like,

it kind of saves space for things that are much more important in my life. Well, I saw your lunch order was very specific. Although I'm very particular. You're very particular. Because that's, I'm very, that's another reason, by the way. I'm very, very particular. And so, some places can deal with it.

Hopefully, my men will see today. We'll see if they show up with breakfast. I know, right particular. And so some places can deal with it. Hopefully, my men will see today. We'll see if they show up with Rick. I know, right? OK, so I guess that's basically it. You have nothing to do, anything you want to add to this lovely list of stuff? No, I mean, we've covered a lot of ground. We covered a lot of ground.

It says here when it says after here, what are any unique rituals that you keep? You said that you love karaoke and you love... Oh, yeah, I built a karaoke room in my home. Are you kidding me? No. Do you have like Japanese businessmen coming over all the time? And having a session with you in there?

No, it's funny that it didn't occur to me that that should be part of it. Yeah. But that's amazing. That's an amazing, amazing idea. No, I actually would spend a lot of time at karaoke bars. And finally, that was not something I would ever expect coming from you. You're like literally surprising me with so many durnets.

I would never think you were a karaoke person. I was going to end this podcast right now with Andy. Oh my God. And now you're telling me like this, you actually feel glad. I'm so glad that this thing can get left out because I would say it's probably one of the most, if I'm gonna lead with anything,

lesbian would be second to karaoke person. Seriously. Yes. Okay, why? You just love it because it's fun. Because I think it brings the world together. I think karaoke. Sure people would love it. Because I think it brings the world together. I think karaoke. Sure people would like to.

karaoke could create world peace. You know, I actually think you're actually onto something. Because how do you not have a good time when you're singing with a bunch of other people, other friends, and whoever. It's a great bonding thing. It's a great thing. You should bring it into the 10 green's office

for like an employee bonding. I'm sure you have it. That was probably like the obvious one, right? Wow, okay, that's another great leadership skill. Why don't, you know, maybe just karaoke with your employees. Oh, yeah, well that's, that was sort of like my secret sauce that I didn't want to let out, but it's out there. Well, no, everyone's gonna be doing it.

Well, thank you. How do people find you if they're more curious and interested in the ways of- Oh, the? I'm on LinkedIn. I'm also Danielle Bruno at Danielle Bruno on Instagram. And tell people to go we just salad and a piece of chicken and Thai food. Go if you like good food and you haven't been to tenderines, you should absolutely go. We make all of our food fresh daily. We source from the highest quality farmers, all of our restaurants have an executive chef. You will get a five star meal for a three star price and if you haven't been there yet, shame on you. Right. I second that motion. Thank you. Thank you so much now. This was

actually very fun. I'm very happy to have you on. Yeah, it's very fun and well, that's it guys. See you later. Thanks. Hope you enjoyed this episode. I'm Heather Monahan, host of Creating Confidence, a part of the Yap Media Network, the number one business and self-improvement podcast network. Okay, so I want to tell you a little bit about my show. We are all about elevating your confidence to its highest level ever and taking your business right there with you. Don't believe me, I'm gonna go ahead and share some of the reviews of the show. So you can believe my listeners.

I have been a longtime fan of Heather's, no matter what phase of life I find myself in, Heather seems to always have the perfect gems of wisdom that not only inspire, but motivate me into action. Her experience and personality are unmatched, and I love her go getter attitude. This show has become a staple in my life. I recommend it to anyone looking to elevate their confidence

and reach that next level. Thank you! I recently got to hear Heather at a live podcast taping with her and Tracy Hayes, and I immediately subscribe to this podcast. It has not disappointed and I cannot wait to listen to as many as I can as quick as I can. Thank you Heather for helping us build confidence and bring so much value to the space. If you are looking to up your confidence level, click creating confidence now. creating confidence now.