Habits and Hustle - Episode 354: In memory of Jerry West: A Journey of Resilience, Basketball Excellence, and Leadership Wisdom

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

What does it take to turn childhood struggles into a legendary career? In memory of the man, the myth and the legend, Jerry West, I am publishing this episode of the Habits & Hustle podcast where I had the privilege of sitting down with Jerry for an inspiring conversation that talks deep into his tumultuous childhood, his rise to athletic greatness, and the enduring legacy he continues to build. As we trace Jerry's path to athletic success, we talked about his reflections on leadership, emotional intelligence, and the importance of honesty and respect in all interactions and more! His candid discussion about his strongest and weakest traits offers a glimpse into the personal philosophy that has guided him throughout his life.  Tune in this episode to gain a deeper understanding of the man behind the icon and the lessons we can all learn from his extraordinary journey. Jerry West was an American basketball player, coach, and general manager who spent four noteworthy decades with the Los Angeles Lakers of the National Basketball Association (NBA). West is widely considered one of the sport’s greatest players and later was hugely influential as a coach and executive. Perhaps the greatest testament to his enduring impact on basketball is the fact that a photo of West serves as the model for the ubiquitous red, white, and blue NBA logo. What we discuss: (07:09) Perseverance and Mental Toughness (11:49) Growing Pains and Finding Balance (20:43) Talent vs Mindset in Sports (28:03) Impact of Free Agency in Basketball (33:03) Steve Ballmer (37:26) Organization Transparency and Accountability (51:02) The Power of Athlete Activism (54:50) Learning From People, Leaders vs. Individuals (01:00:55) Staying Grounded Amidst Fame Thank you to our sponsor: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off To learn more about Jerry West:  Instagram -  https://www.instagram.com/officialjerrywest/ Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it! Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therisage. Their Tri-Lite panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps,

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So today's podcast is one for the books, in my opinion, and probably a lot of other people's opinions because we have Jerry West on, who really, really does represent the statement, the man, the myth, the legend, because you really do transcend that. You are someone who's had success and virtually seems like everything you've done. And I think what you were saying

before we even started rolling was that's not even like, you don't define yourself by basketball. That's just what people always want to talk about. So I guess it's a good place to start. Like, who is Jerry West? And what drives you, what drives him, you, to be so good in virtually everything that you touch? Well, you know, that's a really interesting question. I think it

all started back in my childhood. I think many times you grow up in an environment that's less than desirable, things that you would want in a family probably didn't exist in my family. And I think it changes your perspective on things because at that point in time I was just trying to survive. My family was trying to survive. And I think the negativity you see in life as a child certainly scars you. You can go two ways.

You can either try to choose a path that's pleasing for you. More importantly, to have these dreams that you don't dare tell anyone because growing up in a small place, at that point in time someone would laugh at you. But that's the only thing I, when I look back at my life of any success I've had in my life, it was really because I was a dreamer when I was a little boy. I was a complete loner. None of the kids growing up in this small little community liked to do anything I liked. I loved the outdoors.

I loved to go in the mountains by myself, wondering what I was going to see. Every time I would go, I would always get up to the top of the mountain. And it's probably a lesson I've learned for life. Sometimes you get to the top of the mountain and you see the very same thing that you saw when you were climbing up the mountain. And a lot of people think by getting to the top of the mountain, climbing the top of this peak, that's very rewarding. Sometimes the view up there is not so good. Right. And I think people have a real misconception of what's important in people's lives.

And what's been important to me in my life is that, as I say, my dreams were something I was able to live. You know, I picked up a basketball when I was 10, 9, 10 years old, just out by myself, picked it up and propelling it up between your legs like when you were a little kid and you couldn't get it up there when it was strong enough. All the baskets were 10 feet. But I know this sounds corny, very rarely did I play on a court that was anything other than dirt. And if it'd be rainy or muddy, for some reason this allured this game,

this crazy ball that I picked up changed my life forever. And I was so glad that I had people and I'll never forget probably one of the cruelest things I think I've ever heard and particularly when I was young, I was like 11 years old and my next door neighbor and everyone ran through each one's lawn to get home and I never walked anywhere. I ran. We never had a car, never went on a vacation, never had a bicycle until later in my life and so I was a I was like forced to go at an early age to be honest with you and There wasn't anywhere I wouldn't run up the hills down the hills it was just this enormous energy that I had but

these people I'm sitting there and and they were our next-door neighbors and These people I'm sitting there and they are next door neighbors and here I am not bothering anyone and one of the things that came out of their mouth was, oh my God, what is Jerry ever going to do in his life that's worthwhile? I'm 10 years old, okay? When I heard that it hurt, okay? It hurt because I had to go home. I never knew what I was gonna face at home. I grew up in an abusive household as my other siblings did. And I think that I learned a lot of lessons that day. Never, never give up, okay, never. And I was determined that somewhere along the way

something positive was gonna happen in my life. And all of a sudden I picked up this basketball, as I mentioned before. And somewhere along the way something positive is going to happen in my life and All of a sudden I picked up this basketball as I mentioned before And I had always as I was a dreamer. I could put myself in situation had a very vivid imagination and the thing that was probably Something that I've taken with me forever is that For some reason when people say no, I used to say yes and it has served me well. But from then on when I was picking up a basketball,

I was a coach. I was the announcer first and foremost, but most importantly, I was the official. And so in my life, to feel good before I went home, I could miss 10 straight shots and I'd make the last one. I'd find a way to put a second back on the clock. When I went home, I'd conquered the world and going to my house, I never knew what I was going to face. But I'm sure there's a lot of kids out there that experience the same thing when you're by yourself. Basketball, the rudiments of basketball can be learned by yourself. And this was before, way before, we had all these instructional videos and

going to camps, which I could have never gone to one because I couldn't afford to go. But it was a pretty remarkable time in my life and I did all these things that were a feel-good thing. I used to love to fish. Some people fishing would be slow, hot summer day, humid. You'd still be roasting. But I would always stay out there until I caught something and it made any difference when I started. I wasn't going to quit. And it sounds like you persevered and you had a mental toughness and a discipline to always just kind of keep on going no matter what. Even as a young, that was pretty much the through line

in your personality. There's no question. The other thing, you know, to earn money because this was a sparse household in terms of money being around, I used to do all the jobs that no one wanted to do. And I hear people today say, well, it was minimum wage. I don't know what I was making for doing these things, but I cut everyone's lawn. I'd dig anyone's ditch. It was always going to be perfect. So consequently, anytime that a neighbor had something to do, they'd ask me to do it because

they know I'd do it. And I'd get paid sometimes a dollar, and I'm going, oh my gosh, it's all the money in the world. And I used to take that money and there was a rug in our house, a little tiny place we lived in, and I would take this money and put it under the rug. And sometimes, you know, I'd forget about it. My mother would be taking a sweeper and going around,

and here she was, she did this lump in the thing, and here it might be ten or fifteen dollars there that I had earned. That's how I, you know, bought a basketball, that's how I bought my fishing stuff. And then I started to get into hunting, and there wasn't much around then to hunt. wasn't much around then to hunt. But it was just, it was a unique childhood that unfortunately I had to share with myself. No one knew what was going on behind this crazy thought process that I had in my hand at a young age. But do you feel that because you had a difficult childhood and you had abuse and all that stuff, that kind of also propelled you to want to succeed. Like they gave you that drive to kind of get out of there, that fear of failure that you'd

still stay there if you didn't make it somewhere. So did that help you kind of push? Oh yes, but along the way there's so many obstacles. I was really little. I was tiny. And if a wind blew me away, I was so skinny. But I think the thing that was really interesting to me, and maybe the first time I'd ever felt incredible rejection for trying to be an athlete, I was always really fast. You ran all the time. No one could catch me. And so that was a strength. I could run and jump even a little age. But I remember the first time I tried out for the basketball team, I was in the seventh grade. And I was so tiny, and so almost intimidated by anyone who was in command. I was so tiny and so almost intimidated by anyone who was in command.

I was brought up and still very much today I'm a yes or no sir, thank you please person. And it wasn't until I got to be in the ninth grade that I had a chance to play on my junior high school team. And I was looking the other day, I don't know why, I saw this old picture of me in this uniform, and I said to myself, oh my God, what happened here, okay? All these skinny little kids look like waifs trying to do something that made you feel good. And even then, I had no clue that I would ever be good enough.

I was just somebody who loved to compete and play. So my life changed that summer, my summer of my ninth and going into high school, 10th grade. I grew about six inches one summer. Oh my God, that's a lot. But I didn't gain any weight. I looked like Ica-Bod Crane. I was so skinny. But I'd gotten to the point where I grew so fast, we had this set of stairs in this little house we

lived in. I would run up them and fall down, run down them and fall down. So it was pretty funny to all of a sudden I grew and I was happy about it, but not to be able to, you know, you had no balance, you had nothing, and it was like everything happened overnight. But I think one of the interesting things was that all of a sudden, because I got taller you know I felt I felt like I belonged in the real world and then when I got to high that year I got to high school I was like 6'3", 148 pound and and I played on the junior varsity team and we played all the same schools that our high school teams played. And obviously I wasn't good enough then to play on the varsity team. But something happened.

I started playing real well in these games, these JV games, and the coach decided to promote me up to the varsity. And the two coaches, the head coach and the assistant coach, they were both football coaches and so They bring me up there in the first game I played in I scored 14 points in the last quarter of a high school Game against one of our rivals and we won the game And I wanted to play one more game. That was another rivalry of ours Charleston High School wanted to play one more game that was another rivalry of ours, Charleston High School, okay? The big Charleston High School in the state capital. And I go down there and I broke the navicular, not the navicular bone, but the metatarsal bone. And so they put me in a cast

and so my, whatever left of my varsity career was done. And the doctor, it was a walking cast and the doctor said, well, you know, what should you do. And the doctor, it was a walking cast and the doctor says, well, you know, what should you do? And he asked, well, he said, he seemed to pretty much you can't break these things. Okay. Well, I broke seven of them. And the funny part of it was I was still play basketball with this cast on. And there was really some funny things. Oh my gosh, you played on baskets that were not stationary. And I remember one day I was playing and some guy, I was shooting a shot and I remember

the character Peg Leg Bates, okay? Long ago. He's the dancer. And I got hit on this thing and it knocks me out in the hall in the school principals there. I almost hit him when I went out the door. And that was kind of a, you know, one of the funny things that can happen with that. But it fortunately healed without any other problems. And then my junior year, again, I'd just gotten better and I'd learned to shoot myself and I always was a pretty good shooter, but I got to the point where I was much more confident and still had not lost my ability to run and jump.

And so by the time I got to be a senior in high school, oh by the way in a junior in high school, I'd average about 28 points a game. I had not won college offer in playing in the best competition in the state. And then by the time I was a senior, we won the state championship and played at West Virginia University where, of course, we recruited two and went to school. I wanted to go to my state university. And I'll never forget those days in the state tournament. I said all the state scoring records, all the rebounding records, and I fouled out of both games with a lot of time in one game. I often wondered, I think I scored 40 points and had about 20 rebounds.

And again, this is years ago, but I didn't play hard the whole last quarter, I'd fouled out. But we'd had a big lead and we won the state championship, which wasn't expected. And all of a sudden, these offers started coming in. There's some incredible stories about the recruiting process. And frankly, I couldn't take it anymore. I went home one day and there were four coaches from four big universities sitting in this little chair outside of my house on a little tiny porch. My mother was over there drinking coffee and hot and humid. And she said to all four of these guys, and again, I was really quiet

and shy. She said all these four guys, she said, you know, I don't really care where he goes, but I want him to go to West Virginia. So obviously she was swayed by that, but it was probably the best choice I could have made with all the crazy offers I got, and obviously at that point in time people were pretty loose in their recruiting. Right, what was it like back then? What kind of offers would you be getting back then versus how it is now? There must be a huge discrepancy. Well, for me then, it was, I don't really want to get into it because it doesn't make any difference, but my father didn't make a lot of money, but I could have gotten paid about three times what he got

paid to go into school by a number of schools. And it's something I've always been reticent to talk about because, you know, it really wasn't, there wasn't a lot of governance on athletes going to school, but it was flattering to me. But I didn't get one thing for going to West Virginia University, but it's the best decision I made in my life. Well, and why do you say that? Do you think that was the moment that changed the trajectory in your life beyond when you were 10 years old and when someone said to you, what are you ever going to make of yourself? Do you think this was another one of those moments? You know, I'm pretty loyal, okay, and I always have been. And it was just, I had gone up

there one time when I was a kid with my brother-in-law at that point in time. He's since deceased, obviously. They took me to a game up there. The fun excitement in this little gym that was about 6,400 people jam-packed. I couldn't sleep after the game. I said, that's pretty exciting. I wasn't thinking about playing at West Virginia

University at 12 years of age. But it's the best decision I've ever made. I love the state of West Virginia. I love how people are back there. It really is probably the foundation of who I am today. I'll never forget where I came from. The state is important to me. The university is particularly important to me

and frankly been the charity of my choice. And I will never shirk that responsibility because again, the foundation of my life, what I learned there, the people, they don't have a lot. And particularly today, the coal industry has faded out and not as viable. It's a state that needs a reawakening. They have a workforce there, hardworking people, and the thing they know is hard work. And it's not there anymore. So, I have a home in West Virginia. I usually spend three months there. This year I can't do it because I have a son

who's going to get married on August the 10th. Congratulations, I saw that. Congratulations. Well, he's a nice young man and she's a nice young lady, so I'm hopeful that this will be a... He's engaged... Your son, he works with the Golden State Warriors, correct? And he's marrying his name Johnny Johnny West and he's married. He and Michelle we professional golfer It looks pretty like a pretty impressive match say you can just seal feel the closeness they have and and

Somebody always says soul. I've had a couple people in my life that have been my soulmates. And there's something special about those people that you don't ever forget. Right. Doesn't happen very often. No, it doesn't. Not 100%. So I was going to ask you a question a little bit earlier about your opinion. Do you believe that raw talent or mindset is more important when becoming great at anything than basketball?

I know you seem to have a very strong discipline and competitive nature, but how much of that was also talent or did you, was it more the mindset of your drive and your wanting to be the best and... Well I would say that there's a couple things. You know some people are born differently. Their minds are organized differently and particularly athletes and the one thing that if I was going to ever pat myself on the back, that I've always been competitive no matter what aspect. No losing is not in my vocabulary. And I've learned how to lose, but I still don't like it. And I think just raise how I was raised, it taught me the significance of how important

it was to compete at a high level. A lot of players at that point in time, I hardly ever went out of my room when I played. It was all basketball. And I think the thing that mattered most was after games, I was really hard on myself. And when I got to the point in my career when I felt I could affect the outcome of games, and there was a number of years I could affect the outcome of the game, if we lost, I would go back to my room and I would kill myself in criticism. Not a healthy thing to do. I know that. And it's a curse to live with, but that's how I was raised. I'm not raised, but that's

how my mindset was. And getting to a different level, I thought that was one thing that was very important. But once you get to where you physically mature, and when I came into the NBA, I weighed 172 pounds. 172 pounds. And I was 6'4 and a half. Everyone used to say I was 6'2 and a half. And I had 40 inch sleeve length, so that makes you a lot bigger. And it's just something that as I competed against certain players, I started to get

to the point where, you know, they didn't concern me. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner. No, I know what you mean. They, I just felt that I had an edge and not only physically, but competitively. Yeah, mentally, mentally. Well, absolutely. In my mind, as I say, in my mind, I don't forget what players do. I can go back over the years and talk about players and their strengths and weaknesses. In my mind, it was like an encyclopedia.

So even for the games in it, you don't have the same kind of preparation you do. The games where you might play three or sometimes four nights in a row in different cities, that's hard to do. It games were, you know, you might play three, sometimes four nights in a row in different cities. That's hard to do. It's hard on your body. But as you go along and the more experience you have, you don't have to worry about what someone will tell you about what this player is going to do. You have it in your mind. And I think that's one of the things that when I look at my life, while maybe it would have been simpler for me to play the game, I've always said that one thing that determines players who stand out in every era would be the people who see

the game in slow motion. If you're going fast all the time, it's too fast. That allows these people that truly are above the others, regardless of what people, you know, we throw the term superstar around so loosely today that it doesn't, I don't think it's so, there might be four or five in any given time. Who would you say the top five superstars are, like true superstars? You know, I would never go there because I was slight some people along the way. They're just players I've had respect for in all generations, you know, starting from 60s to 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000, 2010, 2020 coming.

Every period you see a difference in the players. And we're starting to see really very gifted players at an early age. They have been so schooled in terms of AEU camps, camps that are skilled camps. And the ones who identify themselves, obviously, are going to get the most attention. And sometimes when I see the ones who get the most attention, you watch them go to college and some, a lot of them hit that wall. They can't be get beyond that wall. And that's why they get into the NBA as great as they were and going up and all the accolades they receive going up

They hit that wall and they can't break through it Is there one quality that you look for when you could you have such a great eye? Obviously for talent they'd say probably the best ever of all time Is there it's obviously a gut instinct that you feel it? But is there something that you're specifically looking for? Is it? well People always talk about basketball IQ. Unfortunately we have, I don't say unfortunately, part of the game today is the fact that we have so many analytical people involved in the league. And many times they sway people into thinking that or presenting facts that

this guy is truly better than someone else. I don't, I'm not a big fan of analytics, and let me tell you why. They, I think they're great teaching tools. I think they're great for coaches. As this guy likes to go left 90% of the time, if a guy's good enough and he's really a star, he might go left 90% of the time, you're still not gonna stop him. He's gonna find a way to get over there.

But they're so versatile that they're gonna get to the other side too. But I think the one thing you can't look at, you can't look at a heart, you can't look at a mind. I think there's a lot of mistakes made and there have been for years in people overestimating and drafting for need. To me it's about skill and a person's desire to compete and excel. Right, so it's about their mindset, about their competitive, how their mental toughness again, and how competitive they are, how driven they are to be

to be the best, I guess, right? Right. Would you say you were more competitive in your while you're playing basketball or as an executive now? Well, certainly as a player, it's a different kind of competitors. You know, you're not only playing for your team, you're playing for the city and you're playing for the fans. So I don't know how players think today, but that was I felt that was a great sense of responsibility to try to win for your fans. You know, you see the free agency today, as I say, I've always been a pretty loyal person in my life.

Good quality. I would have loved to have had an opportunity to be a free agent to see if I could be tempted to go somewhere else. And someone would not be able to, you know, try to influence my be able to try to influence my thinking if I were going to be a free agent by a presentation showing me the city you live in, the glamour, all the other opportunities. It was strictly about basketball to me, strictly. And today, because of the enormous amount of money, the agents and the game the way it's played today have been the most significant change in basketball that I have seen in all my what?

50 some years in this game. The agents, they dictate where players go. I feel sorry for some of the small market team, but I don't know how you level the playing field. I really don't. But it's okay for people to seek, and I'm not critical of players at all. If you want to go somewhere else, you go. And there's one time in my career I definitely did not want to play for the Lakers because an owner told me a lie. Really?

Oh yes. What happened? Well, it doesn't matter what happens, just don't lie to me to say yes or no. That's the most important thing. Right. Oh wow. And I wanted to leave so badly, but yet I didn't have the opportunity, but I would have left.

It might have been a mistake, but I would have left. It might have been a mistake, but I would have left. City, I love playing for, the fans, watching the game grow, being involved, owning team in the West coach, and look at the first team, the Lakers today. Look at what's happened to this franchise since they've been in the city. The first team here, I'll never forget when I got here. Hell, no one even knew what basketball was

then about baseball and football. That's true. I'll never forget the first two games we played here in the old sports arena. There was a counter over the thing. And so first night there, I think it was like 4820 the next night. It was like 4200 and you get there and playing and I was used to playing and sell out crowds everywhere I went to college and the atmosphere we had to be playing the New York Knicks back-to-back game and You know officer certainly we wanted to win. But I almost felt that there were 4800 transplanted New Yorkers there rooting for the Knicks.

Right, right, right. And to see the way the franchise has grown and to see what's happened to the Lakers here, those are obviously the most special years of my life. To be able to play there, be able to coach there for three years, and have an opportunity to work with an incredible owner, Jerry Buss, was really pretty special. He believed in me, he trusted in me, and we had such a different relationship for someone who's working for someone. And I learned a lot from him.

He was a good guy. He was a man of the people. And so my ears there were filled with a lot of fun, excitement, saw an awful lot of winning. And I saw this city become a Laker city, not a Dodger city, not a Ram city. They eventually have town. And at one time I can remember the dominant, we were on the last page of three newspapers in town. Now all of a sudden we have one daily newspaper, the Los Angeles Times, and other newspapers in smaller areas that don't have the same circulation they used to have. And all of a sudden, I can remember the Herald Examiner, and he saw the Lakers creeping up

from the last phase to the second phase, and all of a sudden, the most dominant team in the town. And that was a great thing for me to see and witness. I can imagine. That's kind of like, I was telling you, I'm Canadian. And my first job was with the Raptors. And it was the same thing, because it was the first year, it was an expansion team, and Toronto's also about hockey and baseball, and it was the same thing.

And slowly but surely, you know, the Raptors, well, now, I mean, I was going to even, I didn't want to even start asking you, of course, about the obvious current affair of, you know, the coup that you were able to accomplish with, well, you know, of course, what's going on with the Clippers, because I figured it's all over the place anyway. But that was quite an amazing thing that you accomplished. Well, it wasn't me, and it's never one person. It's never one person, but you were still a part of it. To be part of it was really fun.

I work for incredible people now. I mean really incredible. As good as any front office I've ever seen in this league. An impeccable owner and Steve Ballmer. And you know I don't know if I'll get fined for this but I'm gonna say it anyway. If I were a young player and I was ever able to get involved with Steve Bomber at this point in time. I'd have to listen to him. He's a pretty amazing man for the enormous success he's had. Everyone always talks about his wealth. He's like Jerry Buzz.

Really? He's like Jerry Buzz. He's a Jerry Bus. Really? He's like Jerry Bus. He's a people person. Jerry was more conservative, but this one is more enthusiastic. But if you're with him and his wife, it's just amazing how grounded they are. It really is pretty grounded. I love hearing that because exactly what you said, from what my perception is, he's Steve Balmer, he's known to being one of the wealthiest men in the country, and then when you say

he's also down to earth and seems very normal, that's a big compliment to give somebody. Well, he's great. He really is. I don't like to go overboard on people because I've said it a number of times about him, but his philanthropy is beyond belief. Really? And he keeps it quiet. And he and his wife together, I don't even know what they do in terms of giving, but he's just one of those people,

he's like your next door neighbor. I don't know if we get to know our next door neighbors anymore. You're probably right, not very often, that's very true. But it's nice to know, because I feel like that actually means it's very authentic and genuine. He's not doing it to brag or to look at me, but it's more coming from the right place,

which is his heart. And like I said, when you have that kind of wealth and that kind of success, you know, you tend to not really know the person. So to hear that he's so kind and authentic and genuine and generous, I think it's a good boss to have. He would be, if you were in a meeting with him and around him to see how he acts with people, how he treats people, he's pretty amazing. And as I say, I'm fortunate enough to be now here with him. This is my third year.

Obviously, I'm getting to the end of my time as involved in this sport. I've been around a lot. But as I say, I think your final resting place sometimes, I've been three other teams in Memphis with late Mike Heisley, who was an incredible guy himself, very philanthropic himself, and with the Warriors, a unique ownership group up there to see the success they've had and the friends I've made up here. And to be involved with this group I am today, the Clippers. The front office they have, as I mentioned before, oh my goodness,

they've hired the best of the best. It doesn't make any difference. Steve will leave no stone unturned in order to have the best of the best, care of the players treatment of the players is paramount in his mind and When he gets this arena built it will be the best arena in town Yeah, it sounds like it will be the best arena in the league

He is as I say he's a man of vision And the thing that I love about him is the fact he is competitive. I mean, really competitive. Where other people, you know, does he take an active part? Very much so. Does he tell us who to draft? No. But there's such interaction. We have meetings over there. I don't know what teams in the league would do this We have meetings over there that are all the basketball people a lot of my former coaches or our scouts and and people who contribute We might have 20 20 people 25 people in a room discussing players This disgusting, you know, how can we get to this point in time? Would we be able to move here to get this player? The openness of this organization is amazing. It's not a closed shop. And when

you get in environments like that, those are really healthy, really healthy. And again, I don't want to say that there's other organizations not like that because they're more closed. You know, everyone's afraid of leaks. Well, the leaks many times come from the same people who want a clothes shop. Right. I've often, you know, you look at a very popular figure in this league who reports stuff, Adrian Wojnowski. He has stories come out before they're even out there. And how does he get it?

He maintains a great relationship with agents. He maintains a great relationship with GMs. And so if you're going to tell people to press those things, why exclude people in the front office? Right. That's absolutely true. Why exclude them? But I have fun with our guys.

It's not ego driven. It's oh my gosh, the kidding and ribbing that I get, which I love. I don't like anyone to be benevolent to me, period. I don't want them to be. It's uncomfortable for me. And I don't want anyone to think I'm any better than anyone. I'm not. I want to rebound people that want to have fun and don't take themselves too seriously but take what they do seriously. Yeah, that's actually a great, that's also a great life lesson as well, right? Like, everything you're saying, I think it doesn't just apply to basketball, it applies to everything

in life and the traits, the qualities, it doesn't matter what industry you're in. But one thing I found interesting, I read that you're very superstitious. And since this podcast is all about people's habits and rituals to be super successful, what are your superstitions? What were they back then? Are they the same? Did they evolve? Well, I'll give you one. It's really stupid. Before a game, I used to chew two sticks of gum, okay? But I'd tear them in half and I'd put two halves over here and I'd have one whole thing. It was like a stress reliever.

And so I would come in at halftime, I'd do the same thing, get a fresh one, put them up there. I always ran out third. Always I would kill to get out run out third. Really? So when you we say put them over there Where are you putting them? Are they like you sticking them somewhere? No, they put them up in the top We had a little shelf a little shelf. Okay at the end of the year at the end of the year There was a big pile of half sticks of gum up there. Really? That's a cute one. Give what you give us one more

I'm sorry. Give me one more superstition. Yeah, I Can you give us one more? I'm sorry? Give me one more superstition? Yeah. I used to drive the same way to the game every day. And here in Los Angeles, because of the traffic, there would be a 50 car wreck. I wouldn't get off. I wouldn't get off.

You would just stay on that right? I was going to stay there. I don't say it's a superstition, but my eating habits were really different. When I first started, everyone used to have like a steak and a salad. Right. Right. As I went on, I couldn't eat anything. I wouldn't physically get sick. And so I used to eat at like one o'clock.

Right. And I had the same thing every day. I'd have a turkey sandwich. Right. And I would have a turkey sandwich, and I would have water and a half a scoop of vanilla ice cream. That was my pregame meal. Really? Not a full scoop, always a half a scoop? That was part of the super, had to be that meal.

And again, I could eat anything then and never gain weight. And obviously, as you get older, for some reason, you don't want to eat as much. And with me, that was one of the things I was, if I didn't do the same thing, I took a nap every afternoon. I would tape around the curtain if there was a peak of light coming through. I would carry tape with me on the road from the trainer so I could tape my windows up so I could take a nap. And one time I will never forget one of the funniest things that ever happened. We had a Friday night game

in Los Angeles and we had a first game of a double header in New York the next night. That's when they used to have double headers. So, double headers, yeah. So we flew there, we get there, by the time we got the hotel, the traffic in New York was like maybe a quarter or seven. And I get in the hotel room, I tape my windows up, I was really tired because I couldn't sleep after games anyway, never slept on a plane. So I'd been up all night and finally went to sleep and all of a sudden I hear all this barking, barking, barking, barking. So I called been up all night and finally went to sleep and all of a sudden I hear all this barking, barking, barking, barking. So I called down the manager and I said, you know, I said, there's a dog barking next

door and I was, again, always very polite. And I said, is there any way that someone could just go check? And this gentleman said to me, he said, well, I'm sorry, we're having the Westminster dog show and they're all staying here at the hotel. Oh my god It wasn't fun. I can imagine that was fun But the worst part we played the next day in in Boston an afternoon game in Boston, right? Anyway, it wasn't fun. It wasn't fun traveling that way. That was not at all. Wow. So then, what are some superstitions?

What are some habits that you do now? You still have similar ones? You still have a... Well, I guess you're not playing, so you can't have that turkey sandwich or the stick to the bone. Well, no. I have very similar habits. I do.

To me, when I go to a game now, I look at it from a different perspective. I try to be a scout, particularly with younger players. Are they getting better? Does our coach need another player? I think one of the things that was important to me when I was involved in making decisions for a team, I have a voice today. And I do really express my opinions, they're important to me, if I'm going to be working for someone. And one of the things that I've always felt that when you go to the game, you watch these young kids, and some of them coming out so young today, they lose their confidence very

quickly. But more importantly, you know, sometimes you see mistakes they make over and over. And you point them out to our, you know, I do to our, to Lawrence Frank, who's our president and GM. I point them out to him. And so to me, to get to the point where you're communicating things that you see that maybe will help this kid get better so you're going to need someone to work with him. You need to get better at this. You need to get better at this. You need to be more alert here. A stupid thing like the sideline. How many guys at times do you see guys step out of bounds? Normally it's the same person all the time. So it's about footwork.

Wow. Even with veterans, even with veterans. Okay. And on the corner threes, there's not a lot of room down there. So your footwork has to be impeccable. Another thing, you know, watching the ball, you know, you have to be alert, your head has to be on a swivel. But I think the thing that I most enjoyed when I was being involved with the team was going to coaches and saying, is there a particular player you'd like to have? Maybe we could try to require him for you. And you'd be surprised how many times that in communicating with other people and obviously

the general managers were the ones you communicated with then. Now you have agents calling, I think you should call him about this player. I said, you can't do that. That's not the way this league works. You should communicate with the executives who are running these teams. But unfortunately, the landscape has really changed. Right. It sounds like it. But it seems like you still keep it old school. Like you still are doing it the way it used to be done more and it's succeeding.

You're succeeding. Well, the kids have so many different people training them. My goodness, they have their own trainers, they come to training camp with their own trainers, and they seem to have confidence in them. But you add a lot more people and sometimes when you add a lot more people, you have people in the staff, maybe that's their specialty. And do they feel slighted? I don't know that answer to that question

But I think with the players today the power that the players have today and I think you know Who was it said this is talent driven league Unfortunately, the talent in all leagues is what makes leagues go. What's this person saying when he says that? I think it was Mark Cuban. But, it's always a talent driven league. The players today are getting more bouncy, they have a lot more craftiness to their game, they have some zigzag in it, which makes them better.

This game is the second largest game in the world today behind soccer. And I do not think it's going to stop growing. I think it's going to become... They're playing basketball in India. Who ever thought that? At one time when Yao Ming was playing in his league, there were seven, I think it was a hundred young Chinese kids that were seven feet tall or more who were playing basketball. What was the impetus for that?

Right. Yao Ming. Right, exactly. Yao Ming. They play basketball in the Philippines. They love basketball and they have professional leagues. Australia is producing some good players and certainly Europe is a fertile place for many NBA players today. So it's becoming a worldwide game.

The NBA has done a great job in Africa because you know we need if you look at the players today with long rangy players they come there's so many big kids in the Ukraine area over there. I mean, they're huge. And in South, in South, in Africa today, these kids are really tall. Right. But they're, the NBA has gotten so involved, and some of the African players who played very successfully in this league have gone about their way to try to contribute back to their countries. That's a good thing. It's a great thing.

Yeah, it's a great thing. I mean, that's... Opportunity in life is the most important. And it's not always about athletics, okay? Right. Exactly, too. People need... People...

We have so many displaced kids today, and they might have completely different interests and it it's great for me to see people get involved who are influential who can provide resources for these kids to have a chance to live their dreams very much like myself and tons of NBA players tons of other athletes in all sports. Absolutely. It's really important to pay it forward and give it back to your community, to give other people the opportunity. Because a lot of it is opportunity. A lot of people can be very talented and have all the other characteristics, but if they're not given that opportunity, it goes unnoticed. Well, as I say, we have so much money in a lot of few hands. If those people would

be a little bit more disciplined, I think, in where they judicially give their money, I'd like to see them, again, I'm not preaching to people, but I'd like to see these people who have enormous wealth get involved in youth today in this country and participate right well absolutely yeah it's probably the best feeling in the world to do something give something to young kids yeah they never forget it they never forget it absolutely and that's what makes the world go around right you if you are if you were given that opportunity and have the ability I always think it's if you have the

ability to help somebody why wouldn't you help somebody? Well, you should. Right. Absolutely. Life is about getting. 100%. And you get when you give, right? That's what they're saying. So, what's the day in the life now? So, of course, we know what the clippers and what you do, but what time do you wake up in the morning? Like, what's your, would you work out? Do you exercise? You must. You still, you probably don't run like Forrest Gump anymore, but maybe close. Well, you know, I try, I try to work out when I have the time, but you know, being here today cuts one day out, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna extract a pound of flesh, cut one of your fingers off.

But no, I try to do that. And when I'm traveling and sometimes it's not personal, it's not for me, you find it's difficult to keep doing those things. And I have my own gym at home, I stretch, I lift weights, I get on a treadmill. When I'm in town a lot, I have a young lady who comes and stretches me. I try to be disciplined with what I eat. I'm not much of a dissipator. I used to like wine very much, but I've even cut way back on that. But the thing that probably I love to do most is read. I've

learned so much from reading about leaders and about giving stories of people. People should go back and look at the days in the South when we had slavery. People should study some of the leaders back there. It's pretty remarkable what these people have done for a cause. And the players frankly that I most admired when I was playing the ones that would take a stand and today's players have an incredible platform. Right. Oh, with social media and everything else now. Incredible platform. And I wish there were more that would, because of the enormity of their popularity and their

wealth today, that's the best feel good. Forget all their careers, okay? If you're good at something, you don't have to tell anyone you're good. You don't have to tell anyone. But the thing that will, you know, their, their image is a player, their record will live forever. But the greatest impact in the world they can make, are helping others. Absolutely. Is there is there one book that you recommend to people to read that you would? Oh, my gosh, so many. I read probably three books a week.

Wow. Okay. What are you reading right now? What are the three books that you just got through reading a book on Malcolm X was fascinating Just got through reading a book on George Washington and during the during the war in the nineteen what? 79 59 Plot to kill him by his own soldiers. I just got through watching a documentary on Martin Luther King.

It was pretty stirring. I read things that sometimes when I travel, I might read a mystery book. But I try to read things that are meaningful to me. Leaders. Why they were great leaders. And some of them have commonalities. And they're different. And people, we see players, okay, that are out there jumping around, oh, look at this leadership ability.

Trust me, there's many more quiet ones that are better leaders and tougher minded, and those guys are constantly calling attention to themselves. Absolutely. I actually agree with what you say. If you're good, people will notice. You don't have to tell everyone. Yes. Yeah, but That's not really the society we live in right where people feel they well as I say society is changing all the time Yeah, okay, it's changing all the time

But I think there's lessons to be learned Regardless of what area you have grown up your life. I listen as I told you before, I've seen time when there's, you know, no phones in the house, no TV in the house, no air conditioning. And I see all the amenities that people have today. With all the smart people in the world, I wonder if artificial intelligence is not going to run this world. And it's a scary, it's a scary thought. Absolutely. And that's the trajectory. That's what's happening, that's the wave of what's going on, it gets to be that way more and more.

Why would Albert Einstein say years ago, he's concerned about artificial intelligence? Years ago. Right. Pretty amazing. Isn't that kind of, it's kind of scary. I mean, are we doing, how are we doing for time? No, we're doing okay. Are you okay?

We got about five more minutes. Okay, I that they don't want to be respectful of your time uh... okay so when i was in the new albert einstein yes uh... all yeah i also saw that you're a big fan of malcolm gladwell oh yes i'd like him to another fellow canadian by the way on that he's uh... he's different he's very different the blink The the one book blink in particular was really good because I'm kind of a blink person It seems like the I can make quick decisions

Are they always right? No, but they are more nearly right because I trust my own personal judgment, right? but again, the more you read the more you study people the more you study people, the more you experience and exposure you've had to people of all shapes, all kinds, all nationalities, you can learn from a lot of people. And the one thing that I know is that I have learned more from people who have been, or just the average person, and I've learned from people who are supposed to be leaders and some people are leaders by definition only. Absolutely true. What would you say then, considering that you're considered to be a leader and an icon,

what would you say your best and most proud accomplishment is of everything? It doesn't have to be profession, it could be anything. I think the balance I have in my life with myself, because if you're not careful, you'll get overwhelmed with, when as a player, rarely did I get criticized. It was hard to criticize me because I played the game at a level that, during my period of time, that was really high. I was a great late game player. But I'm really not sure. I think the one thing is that I'm pretty balanced. I don't

like publicity at all. A lot of people would say that's not true. I get embarrassed by it and it gets to the point sometimes you just... all the praise you get for certain things. Other people have contributed more to me than a lot of things that I've been involved with, and yet I end up getting the credit. I have written letters of apology to people I've written what work for, for the fact that I get so much credit and they don't get enough. Wow. That's very unusual to feel that. I mean, where do you think that comes from though? Do you think that's from your childhood? Because I'm honest. People don't want

you to be honest. That's true. There's a lot of times I'd really like to be, I'd always thought I'd like to write the final chapter in my life, okay? Wouldn't do it. Because I'm too honest to write things that I see that I just wish people would do a little more differently. Respect the people that you work with, okay? Respect them. There's some people that I don't care for. But I don't hate them. Period. I would never... I don't hate people, period. The way they treat people, the disrespect sometimes you see, people who work in this league, everyone wants to win. I hope everyone wins. I hope everyone wins.

But this is so hard to win in this league, getting more difficult because of the rules, the way the game has changed, the way it's officiated. It is just a cycle sometimes that we go through, but I just, I love people, I really do. And I wish I were enormously wealthy because I would give it all away, every penny. Well, I think that you should be writing a book called Life Lessons by Jerry West because I think like we said, what you took from basketball can be, you can use that and transcend any industry personally or and professionally and I think what I got from this is that you are you're really good at like picking up on like emotive very good with emotional intelligence picking up on nuance of how to deal with people and you're very empathetic and I think that's what

probably from what I got this is my opinion That's probably what makes you so good in what you do. Well, again, you know, I say, praise that you get. I had someone to send me a seal with a ball on his nose, okay? And I had really been getting a lot of criticism for a couple of things. One trait in particular that people were, fans were upset, writers, and they felt like it was, I had a vindictive mode toward this person. I coached him and had great respect for him. But anyway, to make a long story short, this person sent me this seal, this seal with a ball on it. I still have it on my bathroom counter. You too?

They said, life is about balance. I started thinking life is about balance. And I said to myself, oh my gosh, all the incredible things that have been said about me, some way too praiseworthy. And now I'm getting this uncomfortable version that really was... I felt bad about trading that person. We him I didn't trade him we traded him and That's when I realized I said, oh my gosh, you know life is really about balance if people say great things about you all the time It's not reality. It's not and particularly people in the press or people have a social

venue And particularly people in the press, where people have a social venue. It's not always true. Well people always, what happens then, people tend to believe their own hype, right? Because the more people praise you, you get an unrealistic sense of self, right? That's what happens. True. So do you not, so you do not believe, not that do not believe the hype, but you try to stay grounded.

Is there something that you do even as a ritual to kind of keep you stay humble and grounded besides the seal that you look at every day? I guess that could be what it is. It reminds you every day to stay balanced. Well, I remind me every day. I'm just like everyone else. I had a life that was a fairy tale life in terms of my basketball life as I say those days are coming to an end and

I will look back and say thank God. I've met some incredible people in my life And I will also look back and I will say there's some people in my life that I was deceived by. And, um, but on balance everything has been like, oh my gosh, how did someone come from a place of 500 and have met the people in my life, I've experienced the things that I have in my life. There's very few that can say that. And no one gave me anything along the way. I earned everything that I've received in my life. Right.

Hard work. Hard work got you where you are. Hard work and the skill. Yeah. And the combination of both, right? If you have skill and you don't have hard work, you're not going to do anything, okay? Right, exactly. You're going to tease everybody.

Exactly. So I guess, basically, I don't want to keep you any longer than I have to. So what is that one... To describe you, give me your strongest trait and your weakest trait, and then you're free. You're a free agent. My weakest trait? Self-worth. Self-worth. Never felt I was worthy of anything and again I attribute to give and I really like people a lot. There would be two answers to that.

Two answers. Well, I'll say I really like you a lot. Thank you very much for coming on this podcast. It was an honor. I know you don't want to be praised. It gets you get uncomfortable. So I'll say I really liked having you. You're a really cool guy. And maybe, you know, we can do this again sometime if it works out.

Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you very much, Jerry West, guys. You can find them basically anywhere online. I don't think you have Instagram and Facebook, do you? No, that's not me. Yeah, I didn't think so. Thank you very much, Jerry West. Thank you so much.