Habits and Hustle - Episode 381: Dr. Jenny Taitz: Expert Strategies to Regulate Emotions and Manage Stress in Minutes

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Are you feeling overwhelmed by stress and looking for quick ways to reset? In this episode on the Habits and Hustle podcast, I talk with clinical psychologist Dr. Jenny Taitz to discuss practical strategies from her new book "Stress Resets" that can help you manage stress and regulate emotions in just minutes.  We discuss evidence-based techniques like the "3-minute breathing space" and "opposite action" that can interrupt negative thought patterns and help us respond more effectively to stressful situations. We also dive into how to positively impact those around us, as emotional regulation is contagious, and much more.  Dr. Jennifer L. Taitz is a licensed clinical psychologist, board-certified in cognitive behavioral therapy, and one of the first psychologists to receive Linehan Board Certification in DBT. She specializes in treating a wide range of mental health issues, including depression, anxiety, eating disorders, and borderline personality disorder, using evidence-based approaches such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). Dr. Taitz is an Assistant Clinical Professor at UCLA, has authored books on emotional eating and relationships, and maintains a private practice offering telehealth services to clients in New York and California. What We Discuss: (00:02) Stress Reset (06:47) Emotion Regulation and Therapy Costs (14:15) Managing Stress and Medication Awareness (24:09) Overcoming Rumination Through Positive Techniques (28:57) Shared Humanity and Mind Resets (32:34) Body Resets and Stress Relief (41:56) Utilizing Exercise for Mental Health (47:43) Mindfulness-Based Stress Relief Techniques (56:16) Therapy Approaches and Rumination (01:02:56) Positive Contagious Stress Resets …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: BiOptimizers: Want to try Magnesium Breakthrough? Go to https://bioptimizers.com/jennifercohen and use promo code JC10 at checkout to save 10% off your purchase. Find more from Jen:  Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen   Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Jennifer L. Taitz, PsyD, ABPP: Website:  https://drjennytaitz.com/  Instagram: @drjennytaitz Book: Stress Resets

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. We have a really amazing clinical psychologist who wrote a book called Stress Resets. Her name is Jennifer L. Tates. I don't know why I said the L. Does anyone ever say that? No one says that. Everyone calls me Jenny. Jenny? Okay, I'm going to call you Jenny. I love that. My dad used to call me Jenny. And we're just talking about the fact that you become blind, or I said that you become blind in your mid-40s if you had 20-20 eyesight. And so she just told me that there are eye drops for that.

I had no idea. I saw it in the New York Times a couple of years ago. Again, not sure. I have not tried them, but worth looking into. Totally worth looking into. All right. So I have Dr. Jenny, how about that? Is that okay?

Dr. Jenny, there's Dr. Becky. Now there's Dr. Jenny, who's on the podcast today talking about her book, like I said, Stress Resets. And I think why I gravitated to this is what I love about this book. It's like a coffee table book. I love the types of books that you don't have to commit to sitting there and like

really having to like read it hours at a time. that you don't have to commit to sitting there and like really having to like read it hours at a time. It's done in a way that you can turn to any page and just get like a great thing from it. Like the first thing on the first page, which is not how you have to do it. But I saw about like emotional regulation, which I want to talk about. I want to start with emotional regulation and how important it is to regulate your emotions because it's like kind of, I feel it's become like a big topic now. And they say if you can figure out a way to regulate your emotions, it like is one of the best stress reducers in overall, your overall longevity.

Is that accurate? Yeah, I think emotion regulation is like the key to getting your goals done professionally, interpersonally, good relationships all hinge on your ability to manage your emotions. And the thing that people don't realize is this is something that anyone could learn. A lot of people say, my emotions are like a light switch. They're like on or off, or they go from zero to a hundred.

And what I truly believe is like anyone could be able to kind of create a dimmer system so they know how to dial down if they need to and when they need to. And this is like very teachable. It doesn't matter how many years you've struggled with this. We all have tools within us. Well, this is what I like to do in the podcast.

I like, and then what this is what I was going to even finish and further say is that I like when people get like actionable tools that they can automatically implement, right? And so this whole, like your whole book, I feel like really gives the ownership and the onus on the person and gives the person a tool or tools where they can in real time try to fix whatever stressor they're having. And if you can kind of break down or some easy tricks or ways, people can start to try and regulate their emotions because I feel like that's really like you were saying is

where it begins and ends. If we can really figure out a way to kind of hone that, it will help in every way. Totally, totally. And just getting back to the format of the book just really quickly and then we'll get to emotion regulation. I designed this because like I don't know about you, but the only time I usually have time to read is like when I'm on vacation. Barely even that. Yeah. And who has time when they're stressed to read a book about stress? The whole concept seems ironic and comical. It's true, right?

By the way, just on that, do you know, like there's a book called for people who have ADD and they, when I went to the, I thought I had ADD, which I probably do. She says I didn't. She actually gave me a book called, do you know that book? Like she said, you have to read this book on ADD called, um, something to distraction. Like it's driven to distraction. I'm like, how do you expect me to read a book on, on being distracted when, you know, I can barely even like move from A to B without being distracted, which is

exactly why this book is great. Nobody has an attention span. Forget about being on vacation only the time. Like the truth is we're becoming, we're becoming like such gnats where if it's not given to you in a bite-size easy way to take a piece of information, people just don't have the ability anymore to do it. Totally and I want people like even you know people that are in therapy forget these things in the moment and so to have like practical tools almost like a cookbook or like a quick like instruction manual for tough moments is so easy to so this is fully research based everything I say is rooted

in science. There's a pretty long reference section. But yeah, and you're like a real like you're like a legitimately behavior, a legitimate behavioral psychologist, I wouldn't have you on if you were just like some girl with a shingle on your door. Right? I try not to have all the stuff you are. Where'd you go to school? UCLA, right? I'm on faculty at UCLA. I'm an assistant clinical professor in psychiatry, volunteer clinical faculty. And I went to school in New York and I did my fellowship at Yale. But my whole thing, my whole shtick, and the reason that I'm here is because I feel like everyone, so many people today are struggling and people shouldn't wait till things are really terrible

to get help. And a lot of people that need help aren't able to afford it and aren't able to find a legitimate therapist in their neighborhood. And so I want people for the price of a salad in Los Angeles or New York to be able to get the therapy that they need. And to your point, and we'll get back to the emotional regulations, I want to talk about that. Since COVID, prices for therapy have skyrocketed to a place where I don't know how people who even have money can do this on a regular basis. What that, since COVID, prices for therapy have skyrocketed

to a place where I don't know how people who even have money can do this on a regular basis. I mean, things that even were like, I thought 150 was expensive an hour. Now like the going rates, what, 300, 350, 400, people are going up to $500 an hour. So it's- And for people that need it,

I mean, the cool thing about therapy is it's like time limited. It's like when I was in grad school, signing up for therapy meant like signing up for life. And now, I mean, my goal is like, come in, we'll learn some skills. We'll see each other for, even if you're severely depressed, you have panic attacks, we could treat that in a matter of 12 weeks usually. Really? Yeah. So that's the other thing.

A lot of times what people end up doing is they go to therapy forever. And that's how that person works. I mean, they don't ever, maybe, I don't know if they ever like see progress or whatever, but to me, I mean, if you're going for something that's actually an issue or a problem, there should be places and things in place where you actually could see progress and have the tools or be given the tools to help you help yourself. Because otherwise you're just going and going. There's also this whole other theory, I don't know what your take on this is, but actually I'm not even going to talk about it right now.

I want to talk about it and then I'll get into what I was going to ask you. Okay, so there's so many different ways we can talk about it right now. I want to talk about it. Emotion regulation. Yeah, I want to talk about emotion. And then I'll get into what I was going to ask you. Okay. So there's so many different ways we can talk about emotion regulation. I mean, the simplest way I think to think about it is before an emotion even takes place. The way that I'm explaining this comes from dialectical behavior therapy. So I want to give credit where credit is due. This is one of the most research-based treatments for people that really struggle with intense

emotions. And what happens is before an emotion even takes place, we have what's known as vulnerability factors. So things that can make you more vulnerable could have happened today. Like you didn't sleep well last night, you didn't have time for lunch, you got an annoying text. All the above happened to me today. Yes, and I'm sorry to hear that.

And, or things, you could have vulnerability factors from your past. If you were in a car accident, maybe getting into the car is more stressful for you, even though that happened five years ago. But again, therapy can help you with that. Right. And so before an emotion even takes place, we have vulnerability factors. And so each of the things that comes, each of the pieces of the like recipe of an emotion,

we can then target for interventions. And so getting ahead before you're like exhausted and haven't slept and haven't worked out and haven't had lunch, making sure to do those things because then you're just setting yourself up for an increased chance of being able to manage your emotions. Because I don't know about you, but if I haven't slept, my bandwidth is so much lower. And that's like, we all know that to be true. And if I haven't worked out, I know the same is true for you. I can't even think as well.

I can't worked out. I know the same is true for you. Like I might, I can't even think as well. I can't think at all. My focus, my ability to be really kind of cognitively present is down. So these are basically, you're saying the best way to emotionally write you. So that's just the first step. Like first step is vulnerability. Like what are your, what are your,

what are the things that you know, reduce your vulnerability? Increase your vulnerability. What are, yeah, what are the things that you know reduce your vulnerability. Increase your vulnerability. Yeah, what are the things that from the get-go could boost your bandwidth? I call this in the book buffers. Like what are the things we could do preemptively to set us up for success? Like you would not go to a job interview like not having prepared to manage emotions you need to get ahead, like the sooner the better.

And so making sure to really, I know this is simple, but but profound like what are the things that don't work for you in your life right now if you feel like you have no time spending 17 hours a week as the average person does on social media is not good for you and skipping times with friends in real life because you're so tired because you're on your phone late even these things are not good for you so the first thing just very simple simple but complicated how can you manage like reduce your vulnerability, boost your resilience? There's a lot of things I... When you're using the word buffers or vulnerability, I say habits, like habit stacking.

How do you habit stack your life? So vulnerability is the bad and the buffer is the good. Vulnerability is the bad, but the buffer is the good. So you're saying buffer, I say habits. Is that really what habit for me? Totally. Yeah, totally. I love that.

And so some of the habits, so first knowing what your trigger or vulnerability is, and then building habits around that. Creating a lifestyle that just sets you up for more ability to cope with whatever comes your way. And also just sticking to your habits. And I know this is such a huge part of your work. Yeah. It just changes your mindset about your ability to cope with hard things.

And that is so important with emotion regulation. Also being aware of our beliefs. Like, do we believe I can't cope with my emotions? They go on forever. Because even that is a risk factor for struggling to manage emotions. It's like, if you think you can manage your emotions, you actually have an increased likelihood

of managing your emotions. And then, so vulnerability is the first thing. And then there's whatever sets you off, the prompting event, the trigger. And then there's the interpretation. So let's just say the trigger is you really like someone and they didn't get back to you on a dating app. The interpretation could be like,

nothing will ever work out for me, things never go my way, I might as well give up. Um, that obviously is going to create a different emotion than, okay, you win some, you lose some, this is a bummer, but like, I don't know what's going on for this person, and I'm gonna be kind to myself because I don't deserve to like struggle with,

because someone I don't really know decided to reject me. Um, and so our interpretation is like the first like big thing and obviously there's so many different things that come up in our lives. It could be a friend wasn't that kind to you. One interpretation is like everyone stinks and another is like they must be going through something. Or they're having a hard time. Right.

It's like re-framing your brain. Exactly. So one of the biggest takeaways with managing emotions and managing stress is being mindful of our interpretations because they come up so quickly, we don't even realize that they're interpretations. And so being aware, I divide the book into thoughts, feelings and behaviors and things to do at each point,

your mind, body and behavior, because our minds have so much to do and there's so many different tools to get into that. So the mind is first in terms of emotion regulation. Obviously, your mind is going to do something to your body. If you think something awful, your body is going to react in turn. And then many times people get into this like terrible dance. I shouldn't even call it a dance because it's like so unpleasant. But your mind is telling you the worst thing, catastrophic thinking, worst case scenario. And then your body is like, obviously tense.

You feel like you can't breathe. And then your behavior is like doing something that it's tempting to get into something, to do something that's like a quick fix, escape, or make things, you know, these things that may often make things worse. And so a huge part of emotion regulation is learning to think more flexibly,

allow your body to react. Because when we're not micromanaging and policing our body or judging like, oh no, I'm short of breath, like I need to like take a nap and then mess up the plans that you have, or I need to smoke a joint or I need to drink. We need to really be aware of like what we're thinking, how we're responding physically, be more accepting of our physical sensations, and then really a huge part of emotion regulation is being able to choose our behaviors because oftentimes when people tell me

that they struggle with emotion regulation, it's like they're upset about their behaviors, they're yelling at people they care about, their kids, their partners, they're totally procrastinating, they have no sense of like, I'm in the driver's seat, like I'm in charge of my life. But these are things we could change if we know how at each point. To actually change them.

Totally. But life, I feel, especially in the last, I don't know, well, it's getting more so with all the technology. But I feel like life moves so quickly now. And there's so many more expectations. Like now you have to be, like just for an example, if you are someone who's a company, a brand, or just a regular person who's an entrepreneur,

you have to build a personal brand. That means you've got to be on Instagram and all the social media. And then you've got to learn to be a producer because you've got to put all the content out. There's so many demands. And if you're a mom, you're a mom as well. Like there's so many demands being put on people

that's getting layered and top of layer. So people's stress levels are really becoming, I believe, like in manageable. And what I've noticed is almost, and this is really sad to me, almost everybody I know are on some type of antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication where it's become so prescribed, where it's like there's no stigma anymore. It's like, well, of course you're on this. I mean, honestly, I've never taken either one of those

and I just live in my anxiety basically or my franticness, because I believe that, you know, that has a vicious cycle that goes with it. I want you to talk about your belief system on, you know, medication and what it does, like what's the adverse effects that can happen and why people maybe should stay away from them.

Great. So I'll just specifically talk about anti-anxiety medications. And I should just say that I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm a clinical psychologist and everyone should speak to their doctor. And I have a lot of clients that do find anti-depressant medication. SSRIs can be very helpful for people that have things like bipolar disorder. Medication is really a frontline treatment and so I don't want any-

That's a mental illness though. That's a different type of- Well, some people have clinical depression, like major depression and- I guess I should clarify, you're right. Let me clarify. I'm talking about like managing day-to-day life. It's an easy fix.

You go to a doctor, they give you a pill and you're good to go. I'm not talking about people who have true medical, like a true mental illness, like bipolar or schizophrenia or even clinical depression. I'm talking about it's become so common now, like popping a candy, where it's like it's like an easy fix that people become dependent on this as their coping mechanism. Right. Yeah, and to get to the back to the first part of what you said, because I think that was so brilliant,

life is really busy right now. Things are really frenetic. We have to be doing a million things. You don't just do one thing at a time anymore. But we sort of can choose to do that. No one can just thinking about juggling, the idea of juggling stresses me out. And we shouldn't have to do that in our lives.

We could really try to do one thing at a time and put the phone in the drawer, put the phone in like this thing called a K-safe, which is like a time-lock container. If you need to do the social media stuff, like do that for a set amount of time. But don't tell me, I wonder what is that thing? A K-safe is like a time-lock container.

You decide how much time you're gonna put it in the phone jail. And a lot of my clients that have ADHD swear that this has been so helpful to them because again, these devices are like designed to be addictive. And so we have a lot of the tools within us and a lot of them are obvious but hard to implement. But again, if you feel stressed because you're doing 27 things at once, you, I promise you,

you will do things better if you do one thing at a time thoughtfully, because I don't know about you, but if you're, you know, I said a few times, like if you're going to the market on the phone, you're probably gonna forget something that you came to get. And then if you're also texting, you're probably gonna like rear end someone, you know. It's my life. I go to the store, I'm on the phone, I'm thinking multitasking.

I end up going to the store four times because I keep on forgetting something. Again, so a quick thing for anyone listening, like just one thing at a time, I promise you, fast track like that, you will save more time. And then with... The idea of multitasking is really then a bad idea. Totally.

That's one of the, again, that's one of the resets in the book, like just one thing at a time. And I understand. I understand. I have three kids. I have a full practice. I see clients that are really struggling and I write books and articles and I totally get... I questioned it there.

That's why I wasn't texting somebody. No, no, no, no. I totally get that it question there, that's why I wasn't texting somebody. No, no, no, no. I totally get that it's hard to try to do one thing at a time if you're juggling a lot, but to notice the urge and to try to just do one thing at a time. And then with regard to medication, like anti-anxiety medications is a specific class of medication. Most people, when they say they're taking anti-anxiety medication, are referring to benzodiazepines, which are medications like Xanax, Clonopin, Ativan. And these medications are really interesting. I mean, first of all, they all have black box warning labels

that they are not designed for long-term use. They're extremely addictive. They also, a lot of studies have found that they can contribute to cognitive decline. And these medications, like, slow us down. And so when we need to be our sharpest, people are, like, sedated. And also, it's so disempowering to think we need to be our sharpest, people are like sedated. And also, it's so disempowering to think I need to lean on something outside of myself rather than, I can do this. Okay, I feel stressed because I'm doing 27 things. Anyone would feel this way. How do

I like manage things or use my stress to troubleshoot? And again, stress is the price of meaningful life if we even like reframe stress as an opportunity to problem solve or to pursue our goals. Taking a medication again is like maybe maintaining you on the hamster wheel that you can't possibly maintain. And so these medications are incredibly harmful because short term they're not helping us do the things that matter to us. Long term they can have very serious adverse effects. Getting off these medications is incredibly complicated and full of horrible side effects. But that side, it's, if people are listening and want to get off, a lot of medical professionals

can help you with a slow taper. But I mean, these medications, interesting, like even their history fascinates me and depresses me at the same time, but they're like Arthur Sackler, like the opioid crisis notoriety, like helped advertise these as mother's little helper in the 1950s to women dissatisfied with their lives

as housewives. And it's like, oh my gosh, like, that is totally not what we want to be doing. Like, if you're not happy with your life as a housewife, like, let's figure out how you can be happier. And that's kind of what these pills do. They like numb your body into submission when what we want to do in the treatment for anxiety

is really learning to like accept your body and accept stress as part and parcel of life. Right. Stress is a part of life and not all stress is bad. Not all stress is bad. I mean, again, like you don't want to go on vacation for too long. You don't want to sit camping for like months on end. Not at all.

That would be terrible. Even on a beach. I mean, that's not relaxing. And if we interventions for college students that teach like first generation college students in 30 minutes, like again, it's not years of therapy, a 30 minute quick intervention with like a large group of like stress is an opportunity for growth. And your body's stress response is helping you. Like if you have knots in your stomach, that means you might be doing well. That means your body is like really rallying to help you perform.

People that are exposed to that 30-minute training actually have reduced cortisol. They have less body stress, stress in their bodies, and they actually perform better and are more likely to complete college than people that aren't exposed to this. And so this mindset that I'm too stressed, I need to take the day off and take pills and smoke a joint. Again, I know cannabis is also kind of complicated,

but everyone that I'm working with and my friends included, like the thing that they most want is motivation and cannabis like causes a motivation. It's the biggest demotivator. I mean, I don't, there are people I talked to, they're like, oh my God, I worked out on when I was hot, like I was totally high. I'm like, how is that even a possibility?

Like, like if I'm high, I would, I can't leave the couch and I want to just watch Netflix. Right? If your life is overwhelming, we want you to be sharp and motivated. That's like the worst way. It's like it dulls all the, your, your motivation. Totally. I never really understood the connection, but I guess, you know, I think people like, like that's why you're here, right? It's like we, we lean on the path of least resistance, right? The thing that what coping mechanism will get me to a place where I can either be distracted or not think about it and not really do the work. Like at the end of the day, it's like everything

that requires any type of movement or growth requires work to be put in it, right? Like, all this, like, action items. And Jen, it's so hard because, like, the things that people do... Yeah. And we all do that, right? Like, I certainly have, like, do, you know, have procrastinated in my life. But the things that we do, it's so hard because immediately they work. Short-term, they work.

Long-term, major backfire, but we forget the long-term. We're just so focused on the short-term they work, long-term major backfire, but we forget the long-term, we're just so focused on the short-term. And so my big thing is, truly, I'm 100% convinced that you can reduce your stress in minutes, no long meditations, medications, or martinis required. You just need to know exactly what to do and different things work for different people. And that's why I offer 75 different resets and buffers in total. Okay. I want to talk about some, because you were saying there's different mind resets and there are body resets. So talk about some, some really easy mind resets we can do, and then talk about some body resets.

Sure. So one of my favorite mind resets. So look again, some of us have thoughts that are helpful. A lot of us have thoughts that are totally not helpful and don't serve any purpose, right? And so if you have a thought that's productive, obviously you don't wanna just like lose sight of that. But like 80 to 99% of people say that they have intrusive, unwanted thoughts. I'm a loser, no one likes me. I can't do this.

It's too much, I can't. For thoughts that like are recurrent and bother you, even just telling yourself without getting into the weeds, I'm an emotion mind. Like emotions are running the telling yourself without getting into the weeds, I'm an emotion mind. Like emotions are running the ship. Like it's Saturday night. I don't have plans. So I'm just telling myself I'm a loser. To even just see like from a bird's eye view, like I'm an emotion mind is so different than getting stuck in the rumination. Like rumination is one of the biggest sources of stress, but to just even spam filter, I'm

an emotion mind. You have filed it away. You don't need to honor it. It's something telling you that you owe a million dollars to the FBI. I mean, it's, it's, it's. The people, the rumination, you talk to us a lot in the book, the rumination, overthinking. That's where I think a lot of people struggle. That's the biggest cause of chronic stress.

A lot of people think that chronic stress is their life, but it's, of course, a lot of people have a lot of legitimate stress, but the overthinking is what stress researchers are very clear takes stress and creates the chronic stress. How do we stop overthinking? There are a lot of different things. I have like 10 ways to get out of overthinking in the book, but some of them-

Give me three good ones. Yeah, I mean, three good ones. One of them is interesting. If in another study using college students, because a lot of these psychology studies use college students because it's so easy samples to obtain. But in college students that were depressed, when they wrote for 20 minutes a day for three days about the most upsetting thing that happened to them, they three times 20 minutes, they ruminated less in the aftermath and they also had reduced depression six months later.

And the reason is, is because a lot of times we're just thinking, but it's like a news ticker. We're like barely focusing on what we're thinking about, and we're not actually like going deeper and processing. And so if you're constantly like kind of thinking about something upsetting that happened to you, if instead you go deeper and actually write about it, put it on paper, close it out,

that is really helpful for something that's unprocessed, that is like haunting you. This is not... This is very specific. Again, different things work for different people. This is if you are like ruminating about a past relationship, or a problematic parent, or a loss. Doing this specific kind of writing is very helpful. Another technique that I love when it comes to rumination is like swapping the why, why

me, why, why does everyone else have it? The victim mentality. Just like these, why you're never going to land on like, we don't know why, like we have to accept uncertainty, but swapping why with how, like why did this other person get the job that I wanted? How can I move forward despite this news? One is productive, has an endpoint, gives you a sense of empowerment.

The other is circular, loops, nauseating, not helpful. Another thing that I like when it comes to ruminating is actually problem solving. A lot of the times we ruminate, obsess over something, but again, similar to the how, let's come up with an action plan and even just thinking there's different things you could do, but even practicing like mental time travel,

like how will I feel about this five years from now? It's like, you know, probably you won't remember it. But again, like we're really into the weeds. And so learning to play with your thoughts, whether it's time travel or you talk about singing your thoughts, because a lot of us just... I love that singing your thoughts. Is it just because it changes what's happening in your brain

or you're changing the vibration of your brain? Or how does it work? You're changing your relationship with the thoughts. So we were talking about like mind resets. And so this is one of my favorites. A lot of us have thoughts like, I'm not good at this or it's gonna be bad. And instead to like,

what if you sang that song to like an upbeat tune, like a recurrent thought that bothers you? I'm sure we all have a thought like, I'm not enough. You know, if there's a thought. And then singing it like. If you have a recurrent thought, I'm sure we everyone could think of. I'm not enough. I'm not enough. Like that. If you, I mean, if this thought constantly like eats at you,

taking that seriously, I'm not enough. I mean, that's like really demoralizing. But if you see, okay, this is just what my mind does. When I'm around people that really impress me, I start to tell myself I'm not enough. And if I like sing that a few times, it quickly changes my relationship. So I see hello emotion mind, neon lights, emotion mind,

rather than that's like dictating my life and scary and upsetting. It's like, okay, this is like, you know, it was funny in a psychology conference, we all had to like, instead of name tags that said our names, we had to like write down a thought that we had about ourselves. And it's like every single person, even people that I really respect, leaders in their fields have thoughts of like, I'm a loser. No one really likes me. Everybody. Well, what if we laugh about it? What if we laugh about it and

play with it rather than let it like boss us around and cause us depression and anxiety? I think that's a... I talk about that a lot. I think that if people always over-index and put other people on pedestals and think that, oh, they don't have the same problems, they don't think the same way, like people who they aspire to be like... What I... Just even doing this podcast, because I've interviewed almost everybody on the planet at this point, I find that... So cool. Congratulations.

Oh, thank you. But what I was going to say is what I... One thing I've noticed is everybody's the same, nobody's different. Just because someone has more money in the bank account or the perception that you may think from social media is that they have it all or this, everybody struggles with the same stuff. It's just about how you cope with it and what you do with it and what actions you're applying to manage them. Really, like nobody's different.

You're not any, like nobody's worse or better than anybody. We should have an equal playing field in terms of how our brain, you know, how we talk to ourselves and think about ourselves and feel about ourselves. It's true. And I find that to be like something that I noticed really fast or, well not fast, it took me a minute, but pretty quickly, I guess. But is there

a difference between anxiety and stress or is it the same thing? Stress is often when there's too much externally coming at us. It's those moments where we just feel like what we're facing is exceeds what we can do. It's those moments when you just feel like, you know, I'm caring too much, I can't possibly do anything more. And anxiety is really the worry and the physical sensation. So stress could easily lead to anxiety.

But very interestingly, like stress is a lot about perception. And so if we believe like we can cope and stress is something that we can deal with, and I know how to manage my emotions, I know how to manage stress, I know how to manage my emotions. I know how to manage stress. I know how to implement behaviors to make things better for myself.

Then we're able to reduce stress and also reduce anxiety. We can also reduce anxiety using similar strategies. But getting back to like we all struggle, that's another one of my favorite mind resets is practicing loving kindness meditation. Because again, there's this like shared humanity and a lot of us are so hard on ourselves. We like we make a mistake, a legitimate mistake because we all make mistakes, rather than beating

ourselves up like practicing, you know, going through a series of people starting with someone that naturally brings warm feelings. Have you heard of this practice? No, no, I'm interested though. So bringing someone to mind that naturally evokes feelings of warmth and love like a pet or grandparent or child and bringing them to the forefront of your mind. May this person be happy, healthy, safe, live with ease and saying that really like you mean it and like you're giving someone this gift of these things actually happening and then yourself may I be happy, healthy, safe, live with ease. And then you go through a series of other people, someone that you care about that's having a hard time, familiar stranger, like someone that you see at the grocery store,

somewhat difficult person, not the hardest person, but slightly difficult. And then all beings, and it's just this reminder that like we're all going through something. And also instead of like the negative of like, I'm the worst and everyone else is terrible too. Yeah. Like in like purposefully inserting positives and this might sound like kind of fluffy or... No, yeah. But there's so much research behind this reducing self-criticism and increasing feelings of connection.

I love that. That's a really good one, actually. I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our sponsor, BioOptimizers. Let me ask you a quick question. Are you ever just tired of feeling tired? Do you always hit snooze and then slam your head straight back on the pillow or wish you can? You take care of a lot of things.

We have issues with work, home, family, and friends. It's no wonder we just feel exhausted sometimes. And if you ever stop to think about it, who takes care of you? Magnesium breakthrough is an all-natural supplement that helps you reduce fatigue and sleep more peacefully. It even strengthens muscle and improves your heart and brain function. While most other magnesium supplements aren't full spectrum,

magnesium breakthrough is the only magnesium supplement on the market that contains the ultimate ratio of seven essential types of magnesium. Their formula includes co-factor ingredients to multiply the delivery of magnesium to every cell in your body and absorb it at a very high rate. And not all formulas can do this. Imagine having the strength and energy to get out of bed every morning and face the day boldly, courageously, and to be able to show up as your best self. And of course keep your energy up through the day and into the night. So if you want to be and feel more energized and get the best night sleep you've ever had, give Magnesium Breakthrough a try. And for an exclusive offer, go to BioOptimizers.com slash Jennifer Cohen and use promo code JC10

during checkout to save 10%. That's BioOptimizers.com slash Jennifer Cohen and use promo code JC10 during checkout for that savings of 10%. Do you want to move on to body resets or do you want to give me one more? Up to you. I love these types of things, because like I said, it's super tangible

and people can really do something in the moment. Give me some body ones. Sure. So body ones, I want to give you something counterintuitive. And so for people, this is actually a body buffer and then we'll talk about a body reset. But for people that have physical sensation. What's the difference between a buffer and a reset? A buffer is like, reset is what you do in the moment. Like I am really stressed right now. What do I do right now? And a buffer is like, what do I do preventatively? Like preventative medicine, because I know things are going to be stressful.

What are things I can do now that some of my peak stress is gone? What do I do to not go from crisis to crisis? So a buffer that I love is because so many people, even if you don't have panic, a lot of people, when they're about to give a speech, might feel their heart racing or sweatiness. Some people

driving gives them like a lot of muscle tension or sweatiness, sweaty palms. And so a lot of people get into this thing because if it feels like your body is like rebelling against you, your mind is going to start thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm in danger. I need to pull over. And so I really like helping people practicing, recreating what they notice their body does in stressful moments. So if you notice like when I'm about to go into a really important meeting I start to feel like I can't breathe, we can help you like a big part of treating panic and also treating physical sensations of anxiety is helping people recreate those. And so I help my clients you know take a skinny straw like the coffee stir straws or take a regular plastic straw and pinch it

then pinch your nose so you're only breathing from the small aperture of the straw. And like they're blown away, like, oh my gosh, like, I can make that happen. Like I can make that uncomfortable feeling that I thought only happens to me when I'm like flying and there's turbulence. I can make that happen like in my living room right now. Yes, you can make that happen. And then when you practice welcoming it, it, you, you can start to uncouple the physical from the negative thoughts that escalate the physical and that really keep you in this situation where

you're really trapped. And so I think that's very interesting for people to realize. Yeah. If you have like an acceptance around physical sensations, it doesn't take very long. It takes literally like five minutes to recreate some of these sensations and you practice it for a couple times. And you've seen success with this. Oh my gosh, it's one of the most proven ways to treat panic attacks. And for people that have public speaking anxiety, this is a really integral part of the treatment if they're scared of physical sensations when they speak. I think this is really, this is actually part of like a newer treatment. That's

one of the most evidence-based ways to treat people that have a bunch of diagnoses like general anxiety plus panic plus social anxiety like if you want to treat them all in one 12 session treatment, interoceptive exposure, it's called like accepting your body sensations is huge and this is I think as an athlete you probably already do this but I think a lot of people if they're like running upstairs if your interpretation is like this is normal I'm running upstairs it's fine it's like that's a good workout if you're like running upstairs, if your interpretation is like, this is normal, I'm running upstairs. It's fine. It's like, that's a good workout. If you're like, I'm out of breath.

What's wrong with me? Right. Should I see a cardiologist? Yeah. And again, like there are times that your body is giving you a signal, but oftentimes when we're stressed, it's a false alarm and learning to really see clearly like, okay, I don't need to police my body. It knows how to run itself.

On the flip side, I think slow breathing is really nice if you want something to really in the moment to reset breathing in for five and out for five, which is much lower than the way we normally breathe. We usually breathe about 18 breaths per minute and doing the five in, five out. I was blown away. I spoke to a two psychiatrist, husband and wife, Patricia Gerbarg and Richard Brown who are affiliated with Columbia University. And they actually told me that they teach people in war zones, the specific breathing exercise, the five in five out coherent breathing,

they call it. And they've had success with people even with so much going on around them. Really? Having had really positive effects so much so I was so moved by this finding that percentage of proceeds from my book are going to their cause because I'm like this is unbelievable. Are you serious? Yeah. Jenny, Dr. Jenny, I love that. Yeah, I know.

I'm like, I don't, yeah, I mean, the purpose of this book is like I want to help with stress relief. You really do want to help with stress relief. And I think you do because there's a lot of great stuff in here. You know, I like the one that you were, you talk about putting your head in like an ice bucket or like a salad bowl of some kind, like your face, I should say, kind of like a cold plunge, but for your face, because it also resets. What does it do exactly? Like what's the medical or science behind that? Sure. So this is something taught in dialectical behavior therapy for people that feel really intense emotions,

like they really struggle with managing their emotions, something really upsetting just happened. If you feel like, oh my gosh, I need to go do something really impulsive, this is something that you could do that has no negative side effects. I should actually say that this is not good for people that have cardiac issues because it lowers your heart rate

quite quickly, so if you have a cardiac issue, you should not try this. But for people that are wearing like an Apple Watch, if you took a salad bowl, fill it with ice, set a timer for 30 seconds, hold your breath and submerge your face in ice water, your heart rate will come down pretty quickly. It's because of the dive response, a human body that's submerged in cold water while holding their breath, their body will quickly redirect blood flow from non-essential to essential organs. If you've ever jumped into a pool, I'm sure you feel very different physiologically. It's basically like doing a cold plunge on your face for two seconds.

For 30 seconds, yeah. 30 seconds to 45 seconds and you could do it for up to 10 minutes. You don't need a whole fancy cold, you don't need a cold plunge. No, this is what I like about this. You don't need a cold plunge, you need a salad bowl. This is what I like about this, you don't need a cold plunge to get the same benefits. You can also take a cold shower. Like by the way- This is very specific, the dive response is very specific to like holding your breath.

Oh yeah, that one I'm saying, but like just in general, right? Like a lot of the things, there are all these other alternatives. So if you don't have one thing that you can figure out by doing something else. Totally. But that one I really,

I think is a really easy thing for people. Everyone has like a salad bowl or something where they can just put their face in. Yeah, and again, all these things are like tackling multiple things at the same time. OK, then that automatically reduces stress in your body. You will not be ruminating by the time you put your head up. And also, like, behaviorally, like like you just learn that you can do something difficult and that

you can take good care of yourself and like that's like three for one. It teaches you you can do hard things and a lot of this is basically teaching yourself that you will be okay, this moment will then pass, right? And just like, like kind of shifting your energy, your energy or your focus somewhere else. The one that I loved, I thought this was so true, is eavesdropping. I thought eavesdropping was great. Like you said in the book or something, like if you start to eavesdrop on someone's conversation, you totally forget like, what your thoughts are about your brain or what you're thinking about or your negative self-thought.

This is so interesting. So this is so interesting. So in a study where people were asked, and this isn't one of like the resets, this is just an interesting- No, I know, but it's great. It's so interesting. I mean, in a study when people are asked to talk about, to talk or write about,

forget if it was talk or write about, the most upsetting thing that happened to them, while hooked up to like all sort of physiological measures of stress, people will literally like, to the point of ruminating is bad for you. Talking about something that happened 20 years ago will put your body in the same state as it was 20 years ago. And so half of the participants that did this had the option to eavesdrop on like a stranger at the lab, which I'm sure was not like juicy TMZ gossip or the you know your social club gossip. It was like a random person in a psychology

lab. I'm sure it wasn't that juicy. The people that were eavesdropping, they quickly returned to baseline just doing something really easy. Like again, not even just the chance to do something different recalibrates you. But we're unfortunately like the downside of being human is like we have a knack for making thinking the worst, making things hard for ourselves, judging normal responses, gravitating towards things that help in the short term and hurt us in the long term. But we're also remarkably good at getting better if we know how. Yeah, we are. We've got to give ourselves more credit and try to implement these things, right? Like totally. That's what it really comes down to. Okay, so give me another body reset. I love the body reset. Oh, let me just say this too.

Like this is not to simplify anything, but like the best mood enhancer, the best antidepressant or best anti-anxiety is guess what? I say it all the time is exercise. That will change your mood and shift wherever your brain is thinking, any negative thought in like, again, in a second, right?

Because like you're again, like sometimes also when you're exhausted and tired or huffing and puffing, you don't have the ability to even think about what you were thinking about. But also the endorphins and the dopamine, right? Like, is that the number one thing? I love exercise. I mean, it's like my happy place. I will smile from ear to ear. I mean, Tyler in gym class, I, it's also the thing that like I make my whole schedule around when I

mean, like, good for you. I love that. What's your class that you like the most I do I'm gonna get a trouble for saying this but I do soul cycle and berries Because they feel like they're very like go to one or the other and I think they're both really good in different ways. I don't like soul cycle. I gotta be honest I hate psych I hate like the bike for I I could do like intermittent like kind of like intervals but I can't sit and do an entire workout on a bike. We both go together.

Yeah, I mean, we can try but I know I'm bike wrestling or it's on like a workout podcast, but you know what? No, these are my, but you know what? There's so much that I love about it. It's like the music, the being part of a community, the inspiring. All of it. Yeah. It's true.

You know what? Like a lot of times you go to these classes, not for the actual workout, but it's for all the other ancillary things that you're getting. Like you said, the community, the music, the feeling of like doing something in a group, like it's like all of that stuff.

And it's not even so much, like it becomes like part of, it's like a ritual becomes part of your, but to me, like, isn't, can all of this be solved? Not all of it. A lot of people just incorporated exercise daily into their life. It would like lower their cortisol levels.

It would make them, it would enhance their mood. It would change the brain chemistry. It's something that's so basic. People don't really want to listen to it. They'll do all these other crazy, kooky concoctions and things as opposed to doing the one thing that actually works the best because it's not sexy or glamorous to be like, go for a walk, you know, like exercise. No, we don't want to do, why would we do that?

We've heard that for too long. Let's talk about something that we haven't heard of that is so outlandish that doesn't work anyway, but at least it can, you know, be a trend. Yeah, and I want to honor, I know some people have like really difficult jobs where they don't have a lot of time or they don't have a lot of resources. Like I'm just thinking about like a home health aide or someone that's working like around the clock that might not be able to easily exercise. Let me just interrupt you.

I know that people say this. I'm not saying to go to Equinox and spend hundreds of dollars on a membership. I'm saying walk out your front door and go for a walk. It's free. It's free. And it's the barrier to begin is very low and it will 10 at 100X your life quality

and happiness, like, actually not even 10X, it would like a thousand extra life quality. Yeah, I love exercise. I'm just thinking about so many of the people that maybe just had a baby or they can't, like that may not have like the childcare, like the freedom to, but even then you can see a stroller. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true.

You know, listen, I'm a believer, and I'm a believer, that if somebody wants something bad enough or the pain is that bad, they will find a way and they'll figure it out. There's a lot of options out there. And it's about then just like choosing to do it or choosing not to do it. Yeah, and I also love like really celebrating like anything and everything counts. Like if you can't go to a 45 minute class, like 10 minutes counts. 10 minutes. By the way, these little 10 minute, whatever increments, they're like, they accumulate

into something big. People think, oh, I don't have time. I only have seven minutes. Guess what you can do in seven minutes. Well, I have studies on that. It's like literally the second part of TIPS, like TIPS is this body reset, which is the starting with the ice. the ice is the temperature, then that eye is intense exercise and that's like 90 seconds, like burpees, squat jumps, quick, fast, getting your heart rate up, because that again, like is

a quick thing and you don't need- And like HIIT workouts too, super quick. But even like literally if you can't do a HIIT workout, like 90 seconds, if you're about to go into a meeting and you're really overwhelmed or you're about to go into a very painful conversation to be able to know like the ice face plus the intense exercise, then the pace breathing, the slow five in, five out. Is that the P? There's two P's. One P is the paced breathing, which is the five in, five out. The second P is progressive muscle relaxation, like tensing and releasing from your forehead

to your mouth to your neck, like shoulders. How do you from your forehead to your mouth to your neck, like shoulders. How do you release your forehead? Tense and then release. Notice the difference between tension and relaxation in your forehead. Each breath further relax your forehead, condense your... I'm trying it right now. You just go in order to, because a lot of us hold tension without even noticing.

Without even noticing. Tense your shoulders, release. And also again, like this, how can you be ruminating if you're focusing on tensing your shoulders? Exactly. It's basically just distractions from what you're, these are all just tips and tricks of distracting yourself from what the negative thought is or the rumination

or the overthinking into a different state of mind. I think of it more as expansion because a lot of times we're not in this current moment and we're not aware of, like when I do the body scan, I feel so much gratitude and appreciation. And a lot of times we're not even aware of it. So it's not even like the other stuff is distracting us and this is like anchoring us in the present moment.

I love that. So if you can tell us a couple of things that we may have not heard before. That's why I like the eavesdropping. I never really heard about that except I do like the page on social media, Overheard in LA, which I think is very entertaining, which then it's basically being eavesdropped on, which I love. Is there anything else like that that you can think of?

One thing that I think again is that it's we know, but we forget in the moments that we need it most. And the eavesdropping again, I just want to be clear. Like I'm not saying that's the only thing. Like everything counts. Like noticing flowers, noticing trees, noticing water. Like there's so many ways we're like not in the moment and not aware of like magic. I know.

We walk through the world and not pay attention. Cute dogs, cute babies, cute elderly people. I mean there's so many things that we're not noticing so much around us. And for us to really like center, like listen, like three sights, three sounds, three sensations, like get here. Like you don't need to be in the future past worst case scenario that will never happen. Something that we don't realize, but I think is so helpful to think about that has personally changed my life and is kind of like how I run my life is there's a skill called opposite

action, which is like we act on our emotions. We're angry, we yell, we are sad, we cancel, we're anxious, we procrastinate or avoid. And we forget that like how acting on our feelings is part of that emotion regulation cycle just keeps us stuck in those feelings. Like the more we yell, the angrier we are, the more we avoid, the more anxious we're gonna be

in the smaller the scope of our lives. So I just love asking yourself, like, what do I want to do in this moment? Is acting on this wise? And if it's not, what does opposite action look like? Like, let's do it all the way. Like a lot of times we're doing the splits, we're doing like the right thing,

but our mind is like, this is terrible, I hate this. I think that's actually very true. I think what happens if we're autopilot, like we're on autopilot, we walk through our lives, we may do the things, but we're our body and mind are not doing it connectedly. Right. And so hard to some for some people, me one of them is to sometimes get that connection because you're moving your brains moving at a million an hour. To make it easier if you're doing it already, if you're already going to work, give it, try this. I mean, try this. Like, let's look over, like, everybody sucks and I'll do it later. Let's try to see, like, if you really think like this, I'm happy to be here. And obviously, like, if you want to look for another job, look for another job. But the more you're able to, to get things done and not judge the people around you, the more bandwidth you'll have to look elsewhere.

I mean, yeah, that's true. And also I think that this idea of, oh, I'm such a great people. You said this earlier, but like, I'm such a great multitasker. It's like, it's become- No, you're not. Right? And nobody is. And they like, you should like, we think we are and we think, and it's been very like

highlighted in today's time. That's like, it's been very praised when the truth is like, if you do focus on one thing and do that really well, like I know what I multitask, I'm doing, now I'm doing nothing well versus like, I'll do everything half-assed versus doing something, finishing it, doing it good, or finishing it, doing it well, moving on.

Okay, so you said to commit to three minutes of mindfulness, Why three minutes? So there's a specific research around this thing called mindfulness-based cognitive therapy. Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy is a specific treatment for people. It was initially designed for people that have had multiple episodes of depression. So if you have been depressed twice, oftentimes psychiatrists will keep you on antidepressants because there's a very high likelihood of relapsing into depression. It's kind of like, it's becoming a well-worn path.

And so psychologists were curious, Zindel Siegel and his colleagues were curious, like, is there something we could do to get people off antidepressants and prevent the risk of relapse? Is there something behavioral we can do? And so remarkably, people who participate in mindfulness-based cognitive therapy,

which includes about 20 minutes a day of mindfulness for about eight weeks. How much? Eight weeks, 20 minutes a day. They are able to reduce the risk of relapsing into depression as effectively as medication. But here's the thing, after the eight weeks, no one's sticking to the 20 minutes. And so the thing that people do after the eight weeks, after you have some experience of seeing thoughts or just thoughts, what's happening with my body,

learning to breathe, learning to be more aware, paying attention in the moment, after the 20 minutes, people usually just stick to the three minutes. And Dr. Siegel, who's a colleague of mine, says that the three minutes alone is the thing that helps. Like you don't need to stick to 20 minutes for the rest of your life. Most people just stick to the three minute breathing space.

And I like the three minute breathing space because the specific one that I teach in the book, because it's just a quick reminder. It's so hard in the moment to remember. What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What do I feel like doing? And remembering that emotions come in waves. Like we all need to remember emotions come in waves.

How I feel right now is not going to go on forever. And I'm not good at predicting how I'll feel in the future. A lot of times we grossly overestimate how bad things will be and underestimate our ability to cope. So just three minutes is like a good way. Yeah, it's incredibly powerful to just, yeah, you don't have 20 minutes every day. But if you have three minutes to just in a quiet time, get clear on what's going on with your mind, body and behavior, it's a little easier to tap into that when you need it most. Are these strategies things that you've used on yourself personally that you were struggling

with? I use these all the time and I don't even think it's like struggling. It's just like optimizing my life or even if the struggling piece, like I think it's interesting. I'll tell you a quick story that I don't think I've shared on a podcast, but I was at a conference when I was early in grad school, like maybe my first year in grad school. And I hated that the thought of public speaking would like make me want to throw up. And I, it's actually interesting, like I never had a hard time like being conversational

and like a lecture or something. I would raise my hand for a question, but I would never like want to be on the podium. And I was part of like, I did like this workshop with this like leading psychologist whose books I had read and he was like a leader in the field and I really respected him. And I did his workshop and I was participatory and then he saw me like walking around the conference center

and he was like, oh, are you giving a talk at the conference? And I was like, oh no, I like, I don't give talks at conferences, I'm not a good public speaker. And he said to me, did you thank your mind for that thought? Did I thank my mind for that thought? What does that even mean? But it's me, did you thank your mind for that thought? Did I thank my mind for that thought? What does that even mean? But it's like, did you thank your mind for that thought? Like, that's just a thought that like came into your mind. I could say thank you mind. And so I truly like a million times while writing this book

or even before this podcast, it's like, will this be okay? Will people like this? But it's like, okay, thank you mind. Like you care. Let's get centered in the moment. And so I truly like all of the things that I want to share with the world are the things that have changed my life and the lives of my patients. And that I think all successful people are trying to make habitual. I love that answer. Because you're just kind of, again, you're just also making notice of what your brain is saying, what your mind is saying to you. What's the difference between your mind and your brain? When I think of brain, again, I'm not a neurologist or anything, but when I think of brain... I'm just asking that question and I'm like, you know what?

I'm going to ask you. When I think of the mind, I think of... Yeah, I mean, when I think of brain, I think of like brain structures and... Like physical. Yeah. And mind is like, I think maybe like our thought patterns. And when I talk about mind in the book, it's really our thought processes. Yeah.

No, I was just asking, someone asked me that. I'm like, you know, I don't know what to ask. I'm gonna start asking people that. Is there anything else that you think we should talk about that you think is important for the book and for people to help themselves reset their stress level, their anxiety, how to soothe your body and mind in minutes, which is literally in minutes. These are all strategies and resets and buffers that will help you again in real time, which is what I love about it. It's not these long drawn out things that will take years to learn. It's like, okay, what am I feeling right now?

How can I change that pattern? How can I like focus somewhere else? Which is again, why I liked it really, I really did. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, in terms of other things, I just think life is really hard and we are really resilient and we need to remember that.

And you have the tools within you, your body is your best pharmacy and there's so much you can do. And I just want to honor, so many of my clients have been through really horrific things and I'm repeatedly blown away by how people are able to recover and bounce back. And their future can be so much better than they could ever imagine.

I love how you just said that, but I got one more question, actually. I'm sorry. Yes. There was a woman, I don't remember her name, Abigail. I think her name is, you know, she is Dr. Abigail. I don't remember her last name. And she actually was saying that the worst thing you can do for

rumination is to go and just see therapy, therapists at nausea, like just constantly, because all you're doing is continually and continuing to focus on the problem or the thing that you don't want to focus on. And that's how people end up overthinking and ruminating is by going to therapy, especially children, putting children in therapy at a young age, because if there is an issue, you're just basically telling your brain, like, this is my, this is, I have a problem, this is my problem, I have a problem, this is my problem. And like, you can actually over talk and talk your problem into being bigger. Right. So I think it's helpful to just realize

that different therapies are focusing on different things and it's not helpful to over generalize that all therapies are encouraging rumination. None of the people that are seeing me are ruminating in my office because it's like, we talked about the breakup, we're gonna, we get five minutes to talk about that if you want to talk about that.

No, no, no, we're not talking about this type of therapy. I was actually asking you more from a child's perspective for like, I mean, I know you're not. So I think behavior therapy for kids, like anyone that's focused on cognitive behavioral therapy is aware of and mindfulness-based cognitive therapy specifically is top of mind aware that rumination is a problem

and what are we doing? All of these interventions are meant to what are your goals and how can we get you towards them? It's very solution focused and present and forward moving rather than focused on the past. I think you don't agree with that. I'm going to look for her. I know. I know who you're talking about. You're talking about Abigail Shrier and she wrote a book called Bad Therapy. And I think Therapy. I was gonna say Bad Therapy. And I think it's, I'm sure that if you looked at therapy, some therapists, like the ones I said, that are keeping people in their office for 20 years,

some therapists might be encouraging rumination, but I think a lot of kids might need therapy and behavior therapy for a kid that needs therapy is not gonna include ruminating. It would include like, what are we gonna do? You're anxious about, you don't wanna go to school. How do we get you to school? Not overly dissecting why you don't wanna go to school and what happened yesterday.

So you're talking more about there's different techniques. Some techniques are just like- We can't judge an entire field based on one sector. You know what I'm talking about. Because I did agree with a lot what she was saying for certain cases. Some techniques are just like... We can't judge an entire field based on one sector that might be... You know what I'm talking about. Because I did agree with a lot what she was saying for certain cases. She's not a therapist, she's a lawyer that did... She's a lawyer?

She's a lawyer. She did an investigative... Oh yeah, she talked to a bunch of therapists. She talked to some... And it's very... I know, it's very... She mostly talks... She's very controversial.

And again, I actually know her and she's wonderful. I think she's a gifted writer, but I think it's easy to make all or nothing statements and it's helpful to see that sure, maybe one doctor did a bad knee replacement surgery, but maybe another doctor would change your life. Right, so don't paint everybody with the same brush. No, and there are a lot of adolescents that truly need therapy, and I worry that their parents might have the wrong impression, and adolescents that are doing dialectical behavior therapy

are dramatically reducing their risk of suicide. And so I think it's really important to see, like, some therapy is not helpful. I think it's helpful to ask questions, like, what is the difference between therapy and venting? Because in my practice, it's, I deliberately, like, I actually was joking with a client once, helpful to ask questions. Like, what is the difference between therapy and venting? Because in my practice, it's yet I deliberately like I actually was joking with a client once this person wanted to talk over and over again about the same thing I brought. Obviously,

my job is to be genuine and tell someone when they're finishing their tea, that's like, we've talked about this so much. I like we can't like what are we going to do to move forward? This already took up so much of your life, taking away our time. What do you want to do going forward? And the person like literally was like, this is my time I'm paying. I'm like, I can't do this. I'm not gonna, this is making you worse. From now on, if you wanna talk about this,

we'll set a timer, we'll agree upon amount of time to talk about this. And then I'm literally, because I think my face is too like reinforcing. I'm going to start doodling on purpose that like the rumination has started and we're going to change the channel. And so I think, yes, it's a problem for therapy to be rehashing your upsetting thing with your third grade friends.

No, there's a lot of integrity in what you said. I think that that is integrity based, right? So therapy, so not everyone's painted with the same brush, but that's what you just did with the patient. I think there's a lot of integrity in that. But there are people out there who do stay for 20 years and they're, because they're getting a paycheck and they're getting, you know. You know what, there's enough need for therapy right now.

Like I feel like it's a disservice. People need therapy. I need to create a space for them in my office and graduate someone else to do that. Absolutely, but yeah, but again, like you're maybe you're different. And by the way, I'm just like having a conversation. I was actually asking more than my belief. I just don't know. I was saying from, I heard one person talk about him asking another therapist what her, what her, what your opinion is. Yeah, I love talking to you.

Yeah, I'm just saying. I mean, I thought't know. Yeah, and I love talking to you. Yeah, I'm just saying, I mean, I saw that it was super, it was very, it was super... No, I think it's helpful to draw attention to something people might not be aware of, like what is the difference? Yeah, I'm a very curious person. I love that. Yeah, that's why you're good at this. And no, and I like, when I hear something that strikes a chord,

I want to like deep dive into that and ask other people's opinions. I don't take one person's opinion on it. And you're right, like, you know, I want to like deep dive into that and ask other people's opinions. I don't take one person's opinion on it. At any rate, like, you know, I didn't even realize that she was actually a lawyer. I thought that she, I know that she did a bunch of, like, she did a whole investigative report on it and talked to a lot of different people. And that was like the general consensus. But I assume that she had a background, but that doesn't mean that you can't.

Yeah, and I think it's a helpful thing for people listening to think about, because I think oftentimes when we're stressed, we're like, let me call a friend and like rehash. And just the same way that rehashing with a therapist isn't gonna be helpful. Rehashing endlessly with like seven friends or reassurance seeking, what does this mean?

What do you think will happen next? So we, a big thing I talk about also in the book is like, and we all know is like friends are amazing for stress reduction, but we need to like use our friendships as like mental vacations and nourish us rather than like bringing ourselves and other people down, which is like a perfect thing that I also want to add is like the reason to reset from stress isn't just for you, it's for the people around you because you regulating your emotions is contagious.

Like emotion regulation is contagious. Being able your emotions is contagious. Like emotion regulation is contagious. Being able to reset is contagious. Managers that are able to see stress as positive, like their teams are less stressed. And so we want to reset our stress so we don't need to ruminate with other people or... No, and it's true. I think that you... So if everyone has a vibration and stuff, I feel you're at like, if you're unregulated, I should say, and you're at like a 20 on a scale of one to 10, it's going to just raise my level, right? Versus if you were more regulated and more calming, right? So I think it's not just for you,

it's for the people around you, for your family, not just for your work people, but for your family. Right, because then you feel worse if you like took something out, work stress out on a family level or snowball. And then that's a whole other snowball situation. So that yeah, the whole point of this is you don't need to snowball and actually you could do the opposite. You could feel incredibly proud and feel a sense of self-advocacy

that not only was I able to manage, but that spared my kids like going through something difficult and actually created a nice night for them. All right, you guys, the book is called Stress Resets and Dr. Jenny Tates. Thank you. I appreciate where people can buy the book. Where do they find you more information on you?

You can find the book wherever books are sold. And my website is Dr. Jenny Tates and I'm on Instagram very infrequently because I really practice what I preach about Dr. Jenny Tates on Instagram. I love that. Thank you, Jenny. Dr. Jenny. Thank you. All right, guys. Bye.