Habits and Hustle - Episode 383: Todd Anderson: Proven Tips for Better Sleep + Why Mindset Matters For Sleep Health

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

Are you tired of tossing and turning at night? In this Habits and Hustle episode, I chat with sleep expert Todd Anderson, to discuss a new perspective on sleep that goes beyond the usual tips and tricks.  We discuss major keys to better sleep, creating a positive psychological association with your bedroom and sleep time, and the importance of making bedtime peaceful. We also dive into the unexpected benefits of mouth-taping and why your relationship with sleep matters more than you might think.  Todd Anderson is an entrepreneur and human performance coach with over a decade of experience in health, wellness, and athletics. A former walk-on fullback at Michigan State University who went on to spend time in the NFL with the Rams, Todd has transitioned his passion for peak performance into coaching and business ventures. Todd's expertise extends beyond physical training to include a deep understanding of sleep science and its impact on performance, as evidenced by his creation of the Dream Recovery sleep tape product.  What We Discuss: (07:08) The Importance of Sleep for Health (13:18) The Connection Between Sleep and Performance (19:22) The Myth of Sleep Biohacking (26:14) Understanding Sleep Patterns and Stressors (34:20) Effects of Stress on Sleep Quality (38:15) Alcohol and Caffeine Impacts (41:18) Effects of Heat on Sleep Quality (46:31) Infrared Sauna Benefits for Sleep (54:34) Optimizing Sleep Position and Routines (01:04:27) Myths and Tips for Better Sleep …and more! Thank you to our sponsors:  Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. BiOptimizers: Want to try Magnesium Breakthrough? Go to https://bioptimizers.com/jennifercohen and use promo code JC10 at checkout to save 10% off your purchase. Timeline Nutrition: Get 10% off your first order at timeline.com/cohen Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers.  Find more from Jen:  Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen   Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Todd Anderson: Website:  https://www.toddanderson42.com/  Instagram: @toddanderson42_

Hi guys, this is Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. First of all, the reason why I like them is the ingredients. You're actually on this is a video. No, and that's not why I like them. I like them because number one, they taste good but that's not even why I like the ingredients. They do taste good because they look like they would taste bad. And that's why, why first of all it reminds me of a ginger shot Let me tell you something the competition to these things taste like shit this actually tastes delicious and the ingredient are like Top shelf and all great for they're all like adaptogens neurotrophics

It's actually very good everything in it looks good. There's a reason why they're probably the number one. Who's their biggest competition? Mental performance shot. I think ketone IQ is probably their biggest competition. That tastes, well, their new one with caffeine tastes way better. Yeah, but it's like rocket fuel. It tastes terrible.

They know it's crazy is the original was 10 times worse. Oh, I know. This tastes much better. The original was unbearable. Yeah, I know. This tastes much better. The original was like unbearable. Yeah, I know. By the way, this is gonna be on the podcast. Are you okay with that? Yeah, that's fine.

No, I mean, yeah, I remember, I was one of the first 500 people to try the first one and I couldn't even like, I mean, you had to like amp yourself up. I know. And that's why, like for me, I like something that will actually be part of my day-to-day life, right? Like, if I have to, like, brace myself to take something, it's probably not the best idea.

But something like this, I think, actually tastes really good, and it does keep you focused. So I actually been doing these every time I do a podcast, like, right before. And when I give it to somebody, I tell them, I ask them honestly, I'm like, tell me the truth. Do you actually feel more focused? I asked them off camera, not so they're on the spot and they're like, actually, I really like them. Can you send me more or can I have a few to take with me or whatever? And that's like a true tale sign.

I think taste is, I mean, people don't think about taste, but I do feel like if you look forward to taking something, your compliance is much higher. Like gummies, I feel like gummies have taken off in all forms just because like everybody looks forward to a gummy. Yeah, it's 100% right. So even if it's, you know, not, it's like more expensive or whatever, it's like if you take it every day, like there's a value in just being consistent. Well, there's a lot of research and data that actually points to if something doesn't taste

good, doesn't matter how good it is for you, if it tastes like shit, you're not going to do it long term or consistently. I'm guilty of that. I am too. That's why I like it. Or convenient. Or convenient. Well, convenient for sure.

I like little things. Little shots. What we do here, we shake it up, boom, boom, boom. This is Magic Mind. It is great for not just for your focus and for your brain, but it's just great for energy. And it tastes good. Don't worry. I would never feed you something. That's my first time ever actually had this. I've seen it a million times.

He's a virgin. Get Todd. I've done this before. Oh, that's much better than it looks. It does. It looks like it, so you think it's gonna be like nasty, but it's pretty good. It's kind of like peach. Yeah, I'm telling you, it's delicious. My husband's obsessed with them. They also make you, it kind of actually sharpens just your overall, like, I don't, it just makes you a little more alert. I need that.

I need all the help I can get. Yeah. Well, this is gonna be a long ass podcast. So I wanted to at least give you something to get you primed and ready. Yeah. All right, let's do it. We did talk to each other for like two hours

during hell on the hill that one time. We did. That's how we became friends actually. We became fast friends. Suffered. We became friends through suffering. You know why you were suffering? Because you had a knee problem.

A knee surgery. A knee surgery. A knee surgery like two weeks before that. Yeah, we talked, by the way, not to correct you, it wasn't two hours, we talked for like five hours. That thing was like- No, because at one point you tried to make it, remember? So then I couldn't do that. That's true.

No, I think what happened, we spoke for like 40 minutes and then I kind of went on my merry way, I came back to you for two hours. You were kind of like Bambi at the end, like your legs were all jello-y. Do you remember? Oh yeah, I remember. I totally remember, that was actually, cause I was like, if I came all the way here,

I didn't come this far to come this far. So I was like- You know, throw a Jesse quote in there. By the way, that's not a Jesse quote, that's an everybody quote. But he says that all the time. So just because he says it, he says a lot of things that other people have said prior, but yes, we're both friends with Jesse, that's not a Jesse quote. That's an everybody quote. But he says that all the time. Just because he says it, he says a lot of things that other people have said prior, but yes,

we're both friends with Jesse, it's there, and he does say that a lot. I didn't come this far to only come this far, but I actually say that too. That's in his home gym. Oh, is it? Yeah. No, I didn't even know that. I do like that saying, and I do say that quite often.

That's good. It's like, it gets pretty deep if you really think about it. Well, it's very true. Yeah, for sure. Right? Well, maybe not, depends who you are. Exactly, I guess it depends who you are. However, this is, I think I was saying to,

I was telling Todd before we started, Todd is very likable. You have a very likable quality. He makes friends very easily. You're very, you're like, you go with the flow. You're easy going. We made, we became friends very quickly. We became friends very quickly.

I thought I was special. Quickly did I learn that I'm not? No. That you do that with everybody. And so that's okay. But I do not talk to people for three hours on a hill. That's not true. There was a lot of other people there.

That was, there was a lot of people, but it was kind of like you were kind of stumbling around and people were very, very driven to get it done. Yeah, we were. And we were just lollygagging and having fun. We were there for the experience. Yeah, for the experience, the hell, the hell on the hill experience.

By the way, Todd, what do I call you, besides my dear friend? What do we say? You're a sleep expert, a recovery expert? Yeah, recovery. I mean, all things recovery. I'm obsessed with anything that makes you feel better. By the way, I didn't even bring up, so Todd Anderson's on the podcast, just FYI.

Not only is he my friend, he started a new company called Dream Recovery, which is sleep tape. You tape your mouth. He's all about, like I said, recovery sleep. And what I like about you and I think why you're doing well, Todd's really crushing it right now. You really are. It's because you are good at taking information and like explaining it in

layman's terms that is that people can really digest and understand. Probably because that's how I need to be explained. Well, it works, right? Like, your content is very simple. It's very easily digestible. And so I'm very proud of you. Congratulations. Thank you.

No, you're welcome. So let's start. So if you are like sleep is what you've been focusing on, let's start basic. Why is sleep so important? Well, it is. It's the only aspect of health and wellness that I think pours into all the other buckets, right? So if you think about like nutrition, exercise, even mental health, sleep has a huge impact on every single thing. The other ones, I think, can almost live in a silo where it takes time for them to affect the others.

Sleep is almost the foundation of all. So I would say people put like sleep, exercise, nutrition, these are all the buckets of health, wellness, longevity. And I would argue that sleep is almost like the foundation because it doesn't matter how good you're doing it, those other things, if you're not sleeping well, it will all crumble down. And it's really the only one that's like that.

There's a lot of ways to eat, there's a lot of ways to work out. There's a lot of different ways to manipulate these different variables, but sleep is the one that's very consistent and almost across the board, everyone has the same needs. It's very consistent across everybody, which is rare because there's so much variety

in every other bucket. You know what? I agree, obviously, because if you don't sleep well, everything else kind of falls to the wayside, right? Like your mood, you get like everything, the way you eat, you're unable to focus, you can't work. You know what's interesting? Only recently has sleep become a phenomenon in terms of having recognition as the importance it should have had, right? Like 20 years ago, no one really talked about it. 10 years ago, no one talked about it.

I started speaking on sleep like probably six or seven years ago, mostly in New York. And companies would ask me, okay, you know, how long is your presentation? Yeah. And they're like 15 minutes. And I'm like, it's an hour. They're like, how do you talk an hour on sleep?

Like there was no interest, no, like nobody was even concerned, but it an hour. They're like, how do you talk an hour on sleep? Like there was no interest, nobody was even concerned. But it was cool because at that time when I was talking about it, a lot of the stuff that's so mainstream now, people kind of, their minds were blown. Because no one had ever spoken about caffeine, alcohol. Like people didn't even know like why any of this stuff affected your sleep.

Yeah, what was the outcome? So that's what really like motivated me to dive all in on sleep because it was cool that the information wasn't really out there. And then when someone changed their sleep habits, the impact of their quality of life was exponential. And there's not really anything else you can do that will have that big of an impact.

If someone goes from sleeping five hours to eight, they're like a different person. I mean, they literally are a different person. Their brain works in a whole different way. No, that's why they even say like, if something is happening in your life that's exceptionally stressful or emotionally charged, you always hear people say, you hear like,

you know, let me sleep on it before I respond or do the X or Y, because that will make a major impact on what your decisions are. You know what's crazy about that? Like there's so much truth to that. And I don't even know why people, when they used to say it, impact on what your decisions are. You know what's crazy about that? There's so much truth to that. And I don't even know why people, when they used to say it, they knew what they were saying. But when we sleep, a lot of our memory is consolidated.

And the one thing that's not consolidated, the thing that we don't hold on to as far as memory goes is the magnitude of emotion. So if you're very emotional, you'll remember every single detail about an argument, the facts, why, what you were saying, but we tend to not remember how amplified our emotion was. Like you almost forget,

it becomes more of like a logical memory. So if you're ever in like a huge fight and you sleep on it, you'll actually have like a clear outlook on that argument. And a lot of times you realize like, you were just really worked up and emotional. And when you write this all out on paper, it wasn't worth getting worked up for. Right, are you saying also that our,

how we react in the first place is more emotional? Definitely, yeah. Because of the lack of sleep, right? Well, yeah, and then naturally, you know, I think a lot of arguments take place later in the day, especially with couples, and our anxiety naturally ramps up throughout the day. You know, that's just how our brain works,

and it needs to reset when we go to sleep. So, like I tell people, like you actually should go to bed angry. If you're getting a huge fight, you're better off, just go to bed, or reset, wake up, talk through it, because you won't be as emotional about it in the morning. Like just scientifically, you literally will not store the amount of emotion that you felt the previous day.

That is so true. And I think that this whole idea, that concept should be like flipped on its head like you just did, like, you know, like never go to bed angry. Actually, you're right, you should go to bed angry because your response and how you react and the dynamic will be so much better if you actually slept well.

Yeah. But how do you fall asleep when you're angry and stressed? It's hard to fall asleep. That's true. I mean, that would be the argument for the other side of it. Could you? Can you fall asleep when you're super angry and pissed? I probably could.

I mean, me and my wife are pretty like, I guess, resilient when it comes to falling asleep. So we probably could, but I think a lot of people might have to work it out. Or at least get to a point where you agree that you're gonna talk about it the next day. I think you have to be on the same page, but. I agree.

What was your, okay, I know your background, but why don't you tell people a little bit about your background to where you came, like where you kind of started from to become someone who's such a renowned sleep expert now. Yeah, I mean, so, you know, I played football, I was at Michigan State with the Rams for a little bit, but throughout that, I was always obsessed

with human performance. And it really started, like I was an overweight kid, and I think I just wanted to be in shape. Like I used to dread pool parties. Like I didn't wanna, I would make up excuses prior to summer to like not go to pool parties if someone's birthday, I hated it. Yeah, so I became kind of obsessed with like, I started working out and I realized

I could get myself in pretty good shape. Kind of became obsessed with human performance, but then I was just fascinated by- How old were you when that was happening? That was like middle school. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So then high school started working out, getting really good shape.

By the time I was a senior, I was in like awesome shape and was just obsessed with I loved learning and you know back then it was like reading muscle and fitness And like that was that was the only resources out there and that kind of continued and I thought I wanted to be like a college strength conditioning coach So even in college with football I was always more concerned about the performance side than even like the playbook It's just more interesting to me. And so when I got done playing football, I wanted to go into train conditioning, went back and worked for a facility that trained like a bunch of pro athletes,

and then started training people on my own, went to Miami and started working with Equinox and being a manager and then overseeing different areas. And through that time, I got to spend a bunch of time with Dr. Jennifer Martin, who's at UCLA. She's one of the top sleep psychologists. And that like just sparked my interest. Like as soon as I started diving into this stuff,

way before anyone else was really talking about it, it just, you know, like a light bulb went off. And I realized this was a huge gap. People don't know about any of this stuff, but it's one of the most important things we can do. And so, you know, I tried to learn as much as I could, took as many courses that were available, which it was tough at the time. And then, yeah,, I tried to learn as much as I could, took as many courses that were available, which it's, it was tough at the time. And then yeah, I started speaking

to like sports teams and companies and really connecting the dots between the science and the goals people are trying to achieve, like almost like the liaison, you know, athletes are told all the time, like, sleep's good for you, but they're never told why it's good for you in relation to the sport they're playing. So really trying to relate and even like, you know, I spoke to the New York Bar Association, like their lifestyle is insane. They're working 18 hour days, entertaining clients like nuts. But you know, you have to speak to them in a way that they're going to realize, you know, how much more efficient they are that they sleep and how it's going to make them more money and save them time. And so I just became super passionate about it. And through speaking, that's kind of how

Dream Recovery was born, is I would get asked about products, what do I use? What are some tools? And I never had awesome answers. Then I met my partners and it was like, kind of just perfect timing, it all kind of came together. So it became, it was a need. Like I got asked all the time and I would be like,

well, you know, there's some stuff on Amazon, but it's not the best. And all of a sudden it just all lined up. So, I mean, I find this interesting because there is, like we said in the beginning, the correlation between sleep and weight gain, the correlation between productivity and sleep is so high, right? And it always comes down to like, OK, well, how do I sleep?

There are people who, no matter what they do, they can't seem to be good sleepers. And then you hear the same adage, okay, well, sleep in a dark room, in a cold room, you know, do all these things, right? Like consistency, like do like have like a routine. Can you talk about some things that people who are listening, what can they try to sleep better that

has not been talked about and Googled at Nausium that may be like something that they didn't even think to even try? I think this is a huge miss in the space and everyone focuses on all the things you just said. None of that matters if your mindset isn't right surrounding sleep. So if you don't connect your bed

with a place of peace and restfulness, it doesn't matter how perfect your routine is, your mind will take over every single time. So as soon as you're battling with sleep, you're thinking about not being able to sleep, nobody has stressed their way to sleeping better, right? So when you start stressing and not being able to sleep and you're sitting in bed and laying there awake,

you immediately, you start associating your bed with that feeling. And our brain is really good with linking places and feelings and sense and in different spaces with emotion. So if you start feeling unsettled and anxious because you can't sleep, your body is going to start being like, oh, this is the bed. This is the place where I feel uneasy and I can't fall asleep. And every time you get in the bed you're gonna have that feeling. So I think, you know, taking a step back

and being like, how do I create the most peaceful space and keeping that a sacred place? Like for two things, sleep and one other thing. That your friend has a whole podcast about it. Oh. Emily can talk about that. Yeah, it's true. Okay, so either sex or sleep. That's it. And that you also have to connect the feelings surrounding those things. So it's not just,

I go to sleep, it's like actually sleep. And as soon as you start feeling anxious, having thoughts about not being able to sleep and beat yourself up, get up and get out of that space. That's a sacred space. It has to be peaceful. You should look forward to going to that space. And as soon as you start having thoughts beyond that like you need to exit And kind of reframe so, you know, I don't have a TV in my room Because what what happened is I would watch TV and that the it would keep me up for another 45 minutes an hour Minimum, do you feel like that's something that like how do you kind of condition? recondition people not to have that as a place where they

So this is interesting. So there's been some cool stuff to come out on this Re-condition people not to have that as a place where they... So this is interesting. So there's been some cool stuff to come out on this, but I'm some, I totally break the rules on this. I have a TV in my room and I watch TV with my wife every single night before bed. But I'll tell you why, because we've done that for 10 years.

We watch a show every single night. What show? Just depends on what we're watching, but that's like our sacred time. It almost feels like everything's right in the world during those 30 minutes. And I would not trade that for it ever impact the light or having a TV is in my room.

So I think something to point out is with all these sleep health wellness hacks, relationships and how powerful and deep your relationships are by far the most accurate predictor of longevity. So if optimizing your health is interfering with having deep relationships with friends and family, you need to reassess your priorities because you think you're being healthy,

but you're actually not. There's times when staying up till one in the morning is probably worth it. I'm so glad that you said that. I'm a huge believer in that too. I think that it's gotten out of hand quite frankly, on like what people are doing. Like they track everything, everything has to be monitored

where that in itself becomes such a stressful endeavor where that has to be impacted on what you're doing. Like what do you feel about tracking like sleep trackers and sleep? Does it actually make your sleep worse because you're like up on edge, like, oh my God, am I sleeping okay? You know, so there's been an outbreak

of what we call like an orthosomniac, which is like ortho coming from the Greek word or like fixing, like an orthopedic surgeon, they fix things. So orthosomniac is being obsessed with fixing your sleep. And I think with all this data and tracking, it's brought this wave of people that almost try to make, they treat their sleep like running a marathon.

Like I can get faster and faster and better and better and better. And that's not really how to approach sleep, right? Like sleep is this thing where like, if it's really good and things are going great, that's it. Like you can't continue to press on and lower your pace. That's not how it goes. And I think there's an obsession with this

because all of a sudden we have this big influx of data of like, okay, sleep is really impactful to our health. It's very important. And then so all of a sudden people are like, well, how do I get the best sleep ever? And that's just not how it works. It's almost like a yes or no type thing. Do you have great sleep?

Yes. Okay, move on. Let's not think about it anymore because the more you focus on it usually the worse your sleep gets So I love sleep trackers, but not in the traditional sense, you know, I wear a whoop I have for seven years I think but what I do is honestly don't even look at it to the day to day I look at the monthly recaps, you know, you can look at the yearly recaps look at big life changes Maybe maybe you made her a change in your routine or you added in like a sauna, something like that.

And you can see on the macro level, like how did something impact my sleep? But there's no reason to wake up, stress out about what that number is gonna be and then let this number that comes from this piece of technology dictate how you feel. You could feel awesome, wake up, that number says 19% recovery

and you convince yourself that you don't feel wake up, that number says 19% recovery and you convince yourself that you don't feel good. And that doesn't make sense. Well, right. Also, how accurate is technology? It's not 100% perfect. It's getting better and better. But yeah, I get questions all the time. I had this percent of REM sleep and this percent of deep sleep and And I'm like, listen, first off, those are very hard to measure, especially at home with a wrist-based tracker. Second off, if you feel good

and you're getting the optimal amount of sleep and you have a consistent bedtime and wake time, why are you worrying about this? Yeah, I agree. I mean, listen, I used to do all of it, right? I used to wear the aura ring and the woo and the this and eventually I'm like, you know what, screw that. Because like I know how I'm, how I feel when I wake up.

Right. If I'm sleeping well, for me to drive myself nuts and create like more stress and anxiety over looking at the data of this and that, like you can't biohack yourself into happiness. No. You can't. You can, you can biohack yourself into craziness, but you can't biohack yourself into happiness. No. You can't. No. You can you can biohack yourself into craziness, but you can't biohack yourself into happiness. No. And the more you try to like biohack your life, I believe that it actually is more destructive than good, right? Like in everything, like people don't like it

becomes like if you're doing something good, it's not good enough. You have to make it more precise and more better. And sleep's not like that, right? It's like, if it's good, it's good. And then walk away, like leave it alone. 100%. You know, like, you know what happens to me and I'm sure everybody can relate. And I'm sure you do this too.

Like once I'm not, once I start not thinking I'll be able to fall asleep, then I'm thinking about it. My pillow gets hot. And then I'm like, oh shit. And then I have to turn my pillow around to get the cold side. And this goes on for like an hour, and then I start to count sheep.

Which has literally been proven to keep you up longer. Well, yeah, I know, and you told me this. Can you tell people this? Because I think it's such an important, fascinating study. So they literally used to tell people to count sheep, right, to help you fall asleep faster. They did a study. It actually makes you stay awake longer because all it's doing is drawing attention to the

fact that you can't sleep. I think originally it was meant to take your attention off of that, but once you go into that practice, you're like, I do this when I can't sleep. And all you're thinking about is counting these sheep. How many sheep is it going to be before I fall asleep? And you stay awake longer. So anything that brings attention to the fact that you can't sleep is probably gonna be a deterrent for actually getting good quality sleep.

And that's why I recommend like don't spend time in that space if you're just ruminating about not being able to sleep. Just get up and do something different. Yeah, just get your mind up. Even if you go in the other room and there's like a TV show that's relaxing, I know it's light and all that stuff,

but that might be a one-off thing, right? So like a couple hours of sleep one night is way less impactful than all of a sudden associating your sacred place of sleep with anxiety and the feeling of being uneasy about sleeping. So I'm gonna give you my number one sleep tip, okay? Sleep pack, because I don't have a TV in my room, I told you, but that's more like logistics

in terms of where to put, don't ask where to put it and all that stuff, because we don't have walls, they're all like windows. It's a whole thing. Tough life. Yeah. Just so many windows and they're poor to ceiling. So I just can't. That's not what I pointed.

So I use an iPad, right? And I only use it when I really can't fall asleep because there are two. So my number one sleep hack, there's two shows that just bring me joy if I watch them. And that's the Golden Girls. Oh wow. And that's Frasier.

Okay. And if I watch one of those shows, it brings me back nostalgic. Like it brings me back to like years ago when I was a young kid. This is a great point, yeah. And I just get happy. And it just, I watch an episode,

it brings me joy and I fall asleep. And it takes away any angst of the day. And by the way, I want to shout out to Dave Rubin because I know you know Dave Rubin that you're the same way with Golden Girls. We have this like, we bonded over this thing. Do you know what Dave Rubin is? Yeah, I don't know him.

Oh, okay. Well, anyway, I love him because you know, you know he is, he's a political guy. Yeah, okay. And he came on the podcast and we had like- That's how I saw him on, but I know he is. Well, anyway, I love him because you know he is? He's a political guy. Yeah, okay. And he came on the podcast and we had like... I saw him on, that's how I knew. Oh, he's not on yet. He wasn't on yet.

I mean, he was on, but I never aired it. Posted a thing though. What? Then you post a story or no? I did, I did post a story, but yeah. Because he could understand it. So the truth of the matter is like, if something brings you joy and happiness,

it will help you fall asleep better. So there's some actually good stuff on that now. So they did this study with the light, like blue light, right? There's an explosion of these blue light blocking glasses. And the data on like its impact on sleep was, it wasn't like strong correlation. It was relatively weak. Well, now some new stuff come out

and what they're realizing is really the more impactful thing is how intense your connection is with the content. So like if you're viewing something that's really emotional or really like invigorating to your brain that you're dialed into, that's gonna be more impactful than the actual light, if that makes sense.

Yeah, totally. And there's also on the flip side, I would venture to say, and I think I'm in this bucket, like if there's something like Golden Girls that's relaxing and you associate with those positive emotion, I would bet that might be worth actually having the light. And when you think about- Totally. Like you think about how embedded,

how deep rooted those emotions are, that's more powerful than like a little bit of light in your eyes, I would venture to say, this is just going off of trying to piece things together, but I think when you look at the psychology of things, like psychology and just how you feel emotionally is usually a lot more powerful than any physical reaction.

Totally, it puts you in a different head space. Which is really, like I said, that's the most important thing about sleep. That's why when you said I smiled, because I think blue light, shmoo light. I think at the end of the day, if you're in a good head space and you feel peaceful and joy and like any calm, calm's a big one,

then you'll fall asleep much easier. So tell me about staying asleep, because I think a lot of people have that problem. Yeah, I think a lot of people. Well, it's not abnormal to wake up in the middle of night. So I guess- No, but I mean like not to go to bed of people, well, it's not abnormal to wake up in the middle of the night. So I guess- No, but I mean like not to go to bed, pee, whatever, but like-

For sure. Well, so that's, I think that's what you have to think about is, okay, first off, if you're waking up four or five times, that's not normal. And think about how many times and why you're waking up. So a lot of times sleep issues don't show up as sleep issues at all. It's really stress management.

And if you're waking up, worrying about the same thing over and over and over again, like that's a good like indication. You should probably talk to somebody about that, right? Like you should, therapy is a great option, but like if there are issues and stressors in your life that are repetitively waking you up or keeping you up at night,

that has nothing to do with your sleep. And then the other thing is like- That's a really, can you say that again? Cause I think that's super important, right? People assume is that they have bad sleep hygiene, right? But yet it's actually something else in their life that's just kind of keeping them up that they have to address.

Yeah, it's like stress management. And they always mask each other. And I think what's unfortunate is, is people think I can't sleep, I can't go back to bed, I have a sleep problem. And then they go on the route of supplements and medication to address sleep, and they don't address the stressors in their life.

But most of the time, like if you're fulfilled in what you're doing in life and you have great relationships, people tend to sleep a lot better. That's such a, I think that is such a great point. This is why I like you, because I think that a lot of other sleep people really scientifically talk about sleep at a scientific level, right?

But what you're doing is you're humanizing it into like actual like life, right? Like why you would, like why sleep is actually important for your wellbeing and like what actually other things besides a cold room keeps you asleep. Because I think that's a very good point. And then what happens is I've seen this so many times with my friends,

because I actually sleep okay most of the time, but when I do have something that's going on in my life and that keeps me up and then I'm not sleeping and it can also go on for too long, I think, oh my God, I'm not sleeping well. So then what you end up doing is you take the melatonin or you take the magnesium or my friends, the ones who have really high stress,

they take, what do you call it? It's like a pharmaceutical, it's like a big one. Ambien? Ambien. And then they can get addicted to Ambien and it becomes a rabbit hole. Cycle. A horrible cycle. Yeah, I think you have to look at, stress is like the kryptonite for sleep.

And foundationally, just when we look at life as a whole and what causes stress, like if you don't have purpose in what you're doing every day and you don't have the right people around you, those two things, you're gonna add significant amounts of stress to your life. So how do people expect to sleep well if the biggest things that create happiness

in their life aren't in place? You're obviously gonna have huge amounts of stress and we know immediately you're gonna be impacting sleep. So I think a lot of times, hopefully when people think about having a sleep issue, why is that happening? What thoughts are happening? And peel back those layers.

And a lot of times it's super foundational. And sometimes you might need to make a big change in your life, maybe you're not around the right people, but it can be a really good, almost magnifying glass to reevaluating what you're doing. And I think that's happened to me. There's been times where I didn't feel fulfilled and I was kind of unsure

and I definitely wasn't sleeping as well. And why would you be when the foundational ingredients of happiness are out of whack? Yeah, I think that's so true. People also turn to alcohol or weed to kind of help them fall asleep. Which also makes sense. It does knock you out, right?

Like it's sedating. So on paper, you're like, oh, I fall asleep faster and I wake up and I felt like I was knocked out. So you assume that it's better sleep, but it's the opposite. So what happens with alcohol and sleep? What's the effects? I mean, alcohol completely changes the architecture of sleep.

So, you know, it's sedating. So when you think about it, it makes sense. People like it because you fall asleep faster. Same with THC, but you fall asleep faster. And what it's doing is it's just not really allowing your body to get in those REM cycles. And REM cycles are important for Basically resetting our mind resetting our emotional stability and our ability to to reason with that emotion in a sense

Reset our emotion emotional intelligence So if you're eliminating those REM cycles and you think about the reason people turn to alcohol creates this cycle You know, you're not gonna reset from the most perspective but when you have the alcohol the majority of the first half the night you almost don't have any REM cycle or no REM cycles and as your body is Metabolizing this alcohol when it's done doing that it tries to make up for it And you go into these like crazy deep or long REM cycles, and you wake up feeling like you're in this great sleep But really all you're doing is bouncing around in these lighter stages of sleep,

and you're actually waking up quite a bit. It's just for, usually it's really short, so you don't even remember it. A lot of times people will be like, oh, I didn't wake up one time. But if you actually look at what's going on in your brain, a lot of times it's very wakeful sleep, and it's just for a split second.

But your brain really isn't having the chance to get into those cycles, those REM cycles, that are so important for resetting every day. What's worse for you, alcohol or THC for sleeping? It's interesting because from just looking at the two, alcohol in regards to cancer causes seven types of cancer. THC hasn't been shown to do that at all. So I think just if you're looking at two substances, alcohol is pretty horrible for you.

But with sleep alone, if you isolate them, they kind of have some similar traits. They both affect those REM cycles. And THC is a little different because, again, it's sedating, they both are sedating, but it seems like the first couple nights, they might have a positive impact. You might have more deep sleep

and have good quality of sleep. But then then afterwards when you're chronically using it, it goes the other direction and you tend to not have as many REM cycles and and creates this lighter stages of sleep. So it's kind of weird but they almost do the same sort of thing. I think a lot of times THC is is associated with good sleep but night after night even though you're falling asleep faster it doesn't mean the quality is where it should be. Anytime you're changing the structure of your REM cycles and how our body flows through that natural rhythm, usually not a great thing. Our body likes to have these rhythms and have a reason how they adjust throughout the day. Same with our circadian rhythm, how light affects things, even our breathing is,

it's a rhythm. And so our body tends to like to have control and anytime those are thrown off, it's gonna show up somewhere else. It's gonna be impacted in some way. So by the way, do you do any of that stuff then because you're such a... I mean, I drink from time to time, like I said,

but I would say, I mean- Does one glass of wine affect your sleep? It does, but it depends when you have it. So I think what I've done over the years, just knowing how this is impacting sleep, is I think about like how much am I gonna have and when I'm gonna have it. So, you know, good tips with like having,

if I'm gonna have a glass of wine or two, having it before dinner as opposed to after dinner or with dinner makes a huge impact. It gives your body time to metabolize it. And then even like if you're going to have, let's say a crazy night, right? A lot of times, you know, there's not really a difference between four and six drinks, as far as your experience, if you slow it down a little bit or, you know, cut it off towards the end of the night.

But when you look at how it impacts your sleep and the long-term effects, you know, if you eliminate a couple of drinks, you know drinks 10 times throughout the year, that's a huge difference. And so I think just bringing the awareness to it and just having a little intention between or about what you're doing makes a big difference. As soon as you know what it's doing, I think you rethink every time you order a new drink. Exactly, just being cognizant of what you're doing.

What about caffeine then? Because I feel like caffeine, you can get very, your body acclimates to it. Like if I have coffee, like I do it now more habitually when I wake up, I'll have coffee. But if I drink coffee at like five or six o'clock, it doesn't really impact me at all. Or I was going to say, is that just what I think? What does it do to my body for sleep or for everything else? I mean, caffeine is interesting because you feel it quick, right? So it peaks at like 45 minutes, but it stays with us for a long time.

You know, half life is five, six hours, which means you're only metabolizing half in six hours. So a lot of times people are just having caffeine in their system all the time. If you have like 300 milligrams of caffeine, for example, spread throughout the morning, like between eight and two, you'll have like 30 milligrams left the next morning, like 8 a.m. Really? Yeah. It really stays with you. What's crazy is like if you have an espresso martini,

alcohol will double the half-life of caffeine. It's almost like 10 to 12 hours. I think that's like the trendiest drink right now. It is. It's funny. People don't realize like that. You want to impact your sleep, dial up an espresso Martini rebel vodka too. But I think if you have rebel vodka, I think that's the effect that you want.

But I think a lot of people are ordering espresso Martini. It is super popular right now. Notice that too. Like a decaf, like, you know, a lot of times you're a nice restaurant, like they'll have decaf espresso, which is a way better option. That's a really, yeah.

That's actually, I think that's, yeah, but people are not doing it for that. I never trust it though. I'm always like, is it really decaf? Does decaf also have caffeine in it a little bit? It depends, like, yeah, probably a little bit, but you know, 200 milligrams, well, you're not gonna have that much, but you know,

a hundred milligrams in a shot of espresso is way different than maybe 15 with a decaf. They take a majority of it out. I mean, how much caffeine do you allow yourself a day? Do you drink a lot? Yeah, like probably 300 milligrams, but I try to really front load it. So I'm going to do it. It's like in the morning, 8 a.m.

Yeah. How about other things that can help sleep? Like I know you're a massive sauna person. Love it. Yeah. Right. Any heat. Heat, me too.

I love heat. Yeah. Sauna is like a, me too, I love heat. Yeah, sauna is like a, you know, it's a luxury. You know, most people can't have a sauna at their house, I would say, but any heat, like sauna has awesome health benefits, you know, Alzheimer's dementia,

but for sleep, isolated sleep, it's really just about heating your body up and warming up your core temperature. So hot tub, bath, hot shower, all those are just as effective and they can be really useful. So hot tub, bath, hot shower, all those are just as effective and they can be really useful. Which is interesting, cause that's like a,

like, isn't that kind of like counter counter to what people say? Like you should be sleeping in a cold environment, but your body's core temperature should be higher with this on? So what it does is if you raise your core temperature, your body reacts and like overcompensated, just like I need to cool myself down.

So it starts to cool itself down. The other thing that happens is it dilates your blood vessels in your extremities, so your arms and your legs. So there's a rush of blood flow to your extremities, which cools your torso, your core down, and you're able to drop your temperature faster. So you go from like a really high body temperature, and then you go from that, this great blood flow,

into a cool room, and you cool down super quickly and are able to fall asleep fast. I like that. So it's like a reverse reaction. And I should tell people, like, by the way, you don't have to have an expensive sauna at your house. No. I have one over here.

I have this one here. I have like an indoor portable one. I have one outside too. I have a big one too. I was gonna say, that's quite the combo. I have a combo because I'll tell you why. I like this one because, shout out to Therisage because it's amazing.

It's an infrared indoor sauna. It's like a little, it's like a little area because I can keep my head out of it. And so it doesn't ruin my hair. Or the hair. Right, or my eyelashes when I have them. So this just gets my body sweaty and sweating. Yeah, I'm a traditionalist.

I go for the old school hot sauna. I know, well, you have like, yours is like crazy, you have a barrel, right? I have two, I have the new cabin by Sisu and then I have the barrel. What do you mean a cabin, what do you mean? It's like a square, they just came out, it has glass on the front.

That's what I shoot the podcast in because of the glass. It has white. I couldn't shoot in the barrel because it's so dark. Oh, so there you have that. So how hot does that one get? Same, 230. It rips. Can it like burn your brain or overheat your brain? I'm not even joking. Yeah, you don't want to stay in like way too long. Well, how long can you stay into that in that?

At 230? I mean, 10 minutes would be really, really hard. I'm joking. Yeah, you don't wanna stay in like way too long. Well, how long can you stay into that in that? At 230, I mean, 10 minutes would be really, really hard. It's also in that one, you're a little higher. So like, you know, heat rises. So if you're up a step, your whole body is in like the really hot air, as opposed to a barrel, you're on the ground. So like 230 in a barrel is a little cooler

than in like a cabin style. Holy crap. Like I, so you're going to feel it one day in the podcast. I know. What am I doing? So Todd actually started a podcast that basically he wants to torture people, literally torture people in the sauna. It's whoever can withstand what every minute in that crazy sauna while you

ask, you know, rapid fire questions. Yeah, it's beat the heat. And then, yeah,, so it's it starts at 160 and the 230 every five minutes It goes up 10 degrees. And so if you make it you beat the heat and then there's five like how long do you say it was? The max is 30 minutes. So you're gonna make people say 30 minutes into that 200 Well, it starts at 160 gradually gets hotter. Okay. Well, well, by the way, at 160, I'm hot. That's a different heat though, infrared's a little different. It is different.

Can you explain the difference? I know you're not here for saunas, but I do think it's important to you. Yeah, so infrared is basically heating up the molecules in your body, like some of the water molecules are vibrating in your body. So it almost heats inside out, it takes time for that to happen and heat you up,

where traditional sauna, the air is much, much hotter. And so it almost heats you up from the outside in. They both take time, right? Cause air doesn't transfer heat very well. It just doesn't like it. It's like, you know, if you look at a thermos for the most part, there's usually air pockets in there or a vacuum because it doesn't transfer heat.

So it takes time for your body to heat up. But in general, the same thing is happening. It's just the type of heat and mechanism, type of waves are essentially different. But the air temperature in a traditional sauna is much hotter, so it's weird. Like in traditional sauna, you walk in, you're like, it's hot, and you know exactly what you're getting into.

Infrared sauna, it's kind of sneaky. You're like, you know, you're like 10 minutes, in the first 10 minutes, you're like, this is nothing. I'm not even hot, and then it's like, all of a sudden you just start pouring sweat. That's what happens to me. Yeah, because it literally is heating you

from the inside out. So like when you're getting heated traditionally, your skin is reactive to sweat, so it happens quicker. So I think your body is almost like, you know, slow to react because its temperature is rising without like the sensation of it being hot on your skin, if that makes sense. Yeah, so isn't that better for you, the infrared? We have some really awesome data on saunas,

40 year long studies done in Finland. And that's really the gold standard in sauna studies that we have. And so those were all done during traditional, you're using traditional saunas. Now, that doesn't mean that infrared is not as good, but it just means right now, like if you had to place a bet on what's gonna work, we know traditional saunas work.

I think just on the mechanisms of an infrared sauna, I'm sure it has the same outcome, I would guess. There's a lot of studies being done right now, but the one thing that the infrared's not as good for is if you do like contrast therapy, just for the experience, because it's like, like you said, it takes a while for you to heat up. So like, if you go in a really cold water

and you think I'm gonna run in the infrared sauna and warm up, you're gonna be cold for a minute. That's 100% true. That's why it's really hard for me. Like I have my cold plunge out there. Honestly, like doing that hot cold thing doesn't work with the hot sauna at all. It's like a joke.

Like you need like 20 minutes to heat up. Oh, easy. I mean, like for 30 minutes, I'm like, all right, I guess now I'll go into contrast. It's like, doesn't have the same effect in terms of, just in terms of efficiency. Yeah, like Remedy place has like a contrast room you can rent out and they put an infrared sauna in there

and it's like, I think you have like an hour and a half. And it's like, if you do one sauna and then cold, and then by the time you warm up again, the hour and a half is over. Because you gotta be in there for like an hour. Well, I was gonna say, if they have a room, why don't they just put a sauna like within those barrels in there?

For sure, they should, I think they probably would if they could go back. If they knew. Well, yeah, because it's like, I don't know. In fact, actually, the one I have outside, for a while actually, because it takes so long to get to 170 where I actually feel it, feel it, I'm like sitting in outside for a while actually, because it takes so long to get to 170 where I actually feel it, feel it. I'm like sitting in there, I'm like, okay,

like this is like, it takes a long time. I used to actually, when I had infrared, I mean, there's frozen cons. The benefit of infrared too is a lot of times you don't need to connect it straight to your circuit breaker. Like it's a normal plug. So I used to have one because I had it on a balcony when I lived in a high rise. And I used to have one because I had it on a balcony when I lived in a high rise and I used to I put like an extra heater inside like a space

heater and infrared because one it takes a while to heat up and two like I do like the feeling of it being hot. So it takes a minute. That's a good idea though. Maybe I should put a space heater in mine outside. That's a really good idea when I want to ruin my hair of course. But that's a whole other- Yeah, well, not worth that. It's definitely not. I only go in it, it sounds so crazy, if I know I'm going to be washing my hair. Any girl can relate. Maybe I'll do it the day before and that day, so it's only so often I can really use it.

That's why I love this indoor one. Foundation of happiness is purpose, people, lashes, and hair. And good hair. So if you're biohacking interferes with any of those. Then it's absolutely not good for your longevity. Exactly. 100%. Stress will be added.

100%. Okay, so magnesium versus melatonin for sleep. Is there anything that you wanna tell us about that? I love magnesium. You do? I like magnesium 3 and 8, like momentous. That's what's in their sleep packs, but that was developed by some neuroscientists

across the blood brain barrier. So I'm thinking about sleep and the brain and resetting, that's gonna be the most impactful on the brain. There's a bunch of other forms of magnesium, but in general- That's a good point, because people always ask me, well, what about magnesium glycinate and this one and that one?

What's the difference? It's net positive, right? Like all magnesium is useful. Some are more bioavailable. I specifically like the three and eight version because I do tend to take it before bed and it's a little more calming. I experienced just because it's impactful on the brain.

But I mean, blood work's always a great place to start too because there's quite a few people that are low on magnesium and it impacts so many functions in our body. It's not just like sleep or being calm. It's across the board of super important molecules. So it's like, I always tell people to start with blood work. And even if you feel awesome, you need a baseline.

And I think eventually a sleep study will be the new blood work because it's kind of the same thing. For me personally, I had moderate sleep apnea. I had no idea. Thought I slept great, and then I got a sleep study done and had moderate sleep apnea. And the only reason I got that done

is because I felt so much better doing the mouth tape that I was like, why do I feel so much better? So I did one with the tape, one without the tape, and realized I had like full blown moderate sleep apnea. The doctor would have recommended a CPAP, the whole deal. And I did it with the tape and it fixed everything. How long did it take? That was like two nights of one, two nights of the other,

back to back, one with the tape, one without. So I was taping for about a year before I did this study because I was like, all right, let's really see what's going on. Because it changed my life. I mean, I felt so much better when I started doing it. You know, I didn't wake up as much. I slept deeper.

I felt way better in the morning. And you know, I wasn't really positive what was going on. So eventually I tried to figure it out and you know, it basically, yeah, had this apnea going on and it was totally alleviated. Not, you know, that's my experience. I'm not saying that's what you should do. But my point is get a sleep study

because you've only slept as yourself, right? You've never experienced what anyone else feels like in the morning, you don't know. You're also sometimes not aware, like, now if I don't use the table, wake up and my mouth is really dry. Well, I was always having that. I just was so used to having a dry mouth in the morning, it didn't even dawn on me. As a kid, I used to brush my teeth a a million times like three times a day because you know I always didn't want to get cavities and I always have a cavity and I'm looking back

It's probably just cuz my mouth was open all the time and you can get cavities from having an open mouth Yeah, yeah So why one of the big factors in in breaking down the enamel your teeth is the pH level and how acidic your mouth is So, you know like water is like seven, that's like neutral-ish. And anytime it drops below five and a half, most dentists will say that's, the acidity is really breaking down your teeth at a fast rate. And a lot of times when your mouth is open at night,

it's in the threes, like 3.6, 3.7 pH, super acidic just from having your mouth. So when you think about the, you know, microbiome of our gut, it really starts in our mouth. And that's all that bacteria is all being impacted by having an open mouth. And we're seeing more and more, a lot of dentists are on board with the mouth tape

because yeah, like the rate at which your teeth are getting broken down accelerates quite a bit. Wow, I didn't even notice, I didn't know that. Yeah. So there's so many other reasons for using this mouth tape. Yeah, yeah, I mean, jaw structure too, like your bone structure takes shape

of whatever you're doing. Our body is adaptable. So when you think about- Right, so what does that mean then if you- Yeah, you think about your mouth, especially as prevalent in kids, they've done studies, but when your mouth is open, right? Right.

It kind of creates a shape that's a less structured jaw. So if your mouth is shut, your jaw will slowly take shape and replicate that position. More and more you're in that position. So people tend to get a sharper jawline over time when they're nasal breathers. Are you serious? Yeah.

I mean, there's really cool studies with kids because kids grow at such a fast rate. It almost like accelerates the data, if that makes sense. So you can see a big difference. And you can almost, you know, once you start looking at people, you can kind of tell how people breathe based on their jaw structure. So if you're more defined jaw line. Not everybody, obviously there's a lot of genetics,

but yeah, it will definitely make a difference one way or the other over an extended period of time. Really? Which makes sense, I think about anything you do, like think about your knees and hips, if you're doing repetitive motion. All the time, of course, it takes them. Yeah, it adapts Yeah adapts your body adapts the same thing if you're in a position for eight hours a night It's gonna adapt and make it easier for your body to be in that position

So if you're like this, yeah, you won't have as much of a I'm more vain some cures I won't have as much of a structured. Yeah, jaw. Yeah Okay, well sign me up. There you send me a lot of sleep tape? Just one pack, like one sleep tape. This is all you. This is the anti-aging formula. I know. What are you trying to say, Todd?

Do I need anti-aging? No, but you're 20. You want to stay 20. I know, exactly. And by the way, anti-aging is like a terrible word. You should say pro-aging because we all want to age. What's the alternative to age? Staying 20.

That's what I want to do. That's true. I do too, but like anti, like I'd rather like keep on living than not. We'll fix that on the packaging. But yeah, basically, you know, a lot of, especially females have skincare routines and the tape is tough because it needs to be on a dry surface to stick well.

So we put, you know, collagen, biotin, vitamin E, vitamin D, aloe, stuff that moisturizes your skin, it's good for your skin, and the adhesive. So it's kind of the best of both worlds. Also made in the US, only US made. Thank you. Thank you for pitching it and promoting it. How about sleeping positions?

Does that affect your sleep? Yeah, definitely. I think it depends on, the hard part is like everybody has different issues, so like if you have orthopedic issues, for example, like a shoulder, that's tough. Because the side, side sleeping seems to be majority of people sleep on their side.

It's also the least amount of snoring. Wait, majority of people sleep on their side? Yeah. Interesting, not their stomach. About 50%. 50%. How many sleep on their stomach versus back? Back is the least. And I think stomach is like 30. They're gonna get different data,

but about half is on our side. So what are you gonna say about that? So, you know, on your, it depends on like your lens, right? So it's like on your back from orthopedic perspective is probably the best such anatomical position. Like it's, it's very safe for your joints. On your side from a breathing perspective is pretty efficient, it's gonna be less snoring,

better for sleep apnea, but when you think about like your shoulder and your neck and stuff, there's kind of like a lot of room for issues. So I think it's, okay, what's your main goal, right? And then figure it out from there. But rule of thumb, like side sleeping is probably your best bet. One thing with the side sleeping though is like,

I'm a big fan of like the squared off memory foam pillows because you wanna make sure your neck is aligned, which can cause some issues, right? So if it's a rounded pillow, it's hard to really get the right height and having a correct height pillow. So really having that distance from your shoulder to your head being similar to your pillow height, right? Like my pillow height should be higher than your pillow height, right? Like if I

had your pillow, my head would be tilted a little bit. So. How tall are you? Six, three. That's sweet. Yeah. Okay. What about, so you're saying sleeping on your side is probably the most beneficial. Yeah. I've always heard that sleeping on your back is the most beneficial.

Like I said, it depends on your approach, but from a breathing perspective, that causes the most snoring. If someone has apnea, which, well, right now, about 60% of people breathe out of their mouth. That's the studies coming out. So the chances they snore or have apnea are much higher if they're breathing out of their mouth.

So I'm just saying in general, on your back, for a lot of people, causes their airway to be airway to be in a more compromised position. Interesting. So I sleep on my side. So that's interesting. I feel like back was always promoted because from your face getting puffy. I was gonna say.

The inflammation. I think it was more of a beauty thing than anything else. And females tend to do better with it because they have a lower chance of snoring and having apnea, just in general. If they're on their back. Just across the board. Yeah, but I think it's uncomfortable.

It's much more imprevalent than men. It's way more prevalent than men. Yeah, I can't sit on my back. I feel like I'm in a coffin or something. I'm just like. It's so uncomfortable. I hurt my back and for a while that was the only way I could sleep

and it was pretty torturous. What happens if you wear a mouth guard? Can you wear a mouth guard with this tape? I guess it's fine, right? Yeah, we have a lot of people that do that. Double it up. Yeah, cause the mouth guard is kind of like, some people have a hard, you know,

you can't really control your mouth when you're sleeping. So sometimes it moves around. So this can be useful to combine with it. Cause I'm a grinder. I'm sure you are too. Tape is useful. We have a lot of people that message us that it helps with grinding,

which that's like, I wasn't, you know, 100% certain about because, you know, I'm sure you are too. Tape is useful. We have a lot of people that message us that it helps with grinding, which that's like, I wasn't, you know, 100% certain about because, you know, it doesn't really totally like make sense that it would fix it, but I'm talking hundreds of messages about that. That helps with the grinding? Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. I think when I was asking earlier about melatonin and magnesium, we talked about magnesium, but I don't think you mentioned melatonin. Yeah, melatonin, it's tricky, right? It's wild, it's a hormone, right? So it's producing our body.

But how did melatonin become this idea that melatonin helps you sleep? Because I was like, for me, if it is a hormone, how does that work? It's like a triggering hormone, like our circadian rhythm. So throughout the evening, it's meant to, like with the absence of light, it's meant to ramp up throughout the evening

to make us fall asleep. But what's wild is like a lot in Europe and stuff, a lot of times you have to be prescribed it, a lot of countries. I know. It's a hormone. Like it's, you know, there's not a lot of hormones you can just grab over the counter.

And the good thing is with it though, there's like a ton of negative side effects from taking it with that. I think that's why it's so readily available. But why not? Why is there, if it is a hormone, shouldn't there be side effects with it? Yeah, the receptors, the way it's absorbed, it's like when you have too much, it's not like it throws you all in a whack like a testosterone or estrogen.

It just goes unused. But, and some people are using like crazy amounts of it nowadays, but the reason I tend to shy away from it is not because of the results more is the thought behind it. Cause everybody wants a quick fix, right? And then all of a sudden you're dependent on this thing and you think this thing is gonna help your sleep.

And then, you know, you're not doing all the behavior stuff to actually create a good environment. Like when you think about thing is gonna help your sleep and you're not doing all the behavior stuff to actually create a good environment. Like when you think about melatonin, most people can produce a great amount of melatonin if they just control the amount of light in the evening and create a routine that winds down and they stop stimulating their brain. But people don't want that, they want a quick fix

and they just go to like a pill or a supplement. Like that's why we don't have a sleep supplement, is because I just don't love the idea behind the thought. Usually people just jump right to that, instead of thinking about like, how are my stress levels? Like what's my routine look like? What is my day to day, nighttime routine? What am I eating?

What time am I eating? All the things that can really impact sleep, I just want a quick fix. And also I guess with sleep tape though, that's not really a quick fix, right? Because, and boy, you're not ingesting it. That's the first part. No, yeah, hopefully not.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. But yeah. That'd be weird. Yeah, I mean, I think what it does, breathing is so powerful. And I think a lot of times people are turned off by breathing in general.

They don't give enough time to actually like feel the difference. And so it's almost like bumpers too. It makes you nasal breathe, it makes you relax. And when people are stressed, that's just gonna calm you down in general. A lot of people feel really relaxing because it's the first time throughout the day

they're probably breathing out of their nose. And so that calms you down. And yeah, it also does create a bit of a routine, right? Because you can't talk anymore. And it kind of creates a subconscious, like once I put this on, I fall asleep. That's why we love masks too, because you can't be on your phone when you have't talk anymore. And it kind of creates this subconscious, like once I put this on, I fall asleep. That's why we love masks too, because you can't be on your phone when you have a mask on.

Especially for college teams, it's insane. People are just on their phone, Snapchat. Snapchat, it's until they literally pass out with their phone. But then the sleep mask creates this routine. They don't even really realize what they're doing, but it creates this nighttime routine just because you can't get back on your phone. Right, so like a couple of good things is,

so that's a great like circle back, right? Like terms of like ways that people, some ways that people could try to sleep better that we haven't heard before is maybe trying a sleep mask. I love the sleep mask. And the sleep tape. Yeah, sleep masks are, I would say underrated big time

because the mask, people love blackout shades. They know we shouldn't have light, all this stuff, but you can't take that with you. The mask is cheap and you can literally replicate the environment anywhere you go. You go to a hotel, whatever you wanna do. If you're an athlete and you go on the road, you have control.

You took something that was uncontrollable, you made it controllable. So I love that. And the tape is awesome because I think just the breathing in general, when you calm down your breathing, because when you're breathing out of your nose, you're forced to calm down.

You don't realize it, but our breath is like the steering wheel of our nervous system. And people don't realize how quickly it will calm your nervous system down and down-regulate it. You know, it's also great, I just realized when you were talking and saying that, the sleep tape can probably be a really great

mechanism for people with anxiety. 100%. Like forget about the sleep part. Yeah. Just putting that on your mouth because it will force you to breathe better. Right. And when people have anxiety,

it's hard to convince them like just breathe, like do this protocol. Yes, exactly. That's hard. But if you just throw some tape on, even if you go for a walk, it's insane. Like it's like this less, not invasive, that's not the right word. You don't have to be as intentional.

And it just forces you to physiologically calm down. And you don't even have to think about what's happening. It just forces you to breathe in this calming way. Will you send me some more of this? Yeah, for sure. How many come in this? 30, a month. Oh, wow.

Yeah, that's- And you use this every night? Yeah, I mean, I'm habitual. I literally, it was almost like self-serving. I mean, I created it for myself. And I was like, I know if I'm having this issue of not finding a good one, that there must be a bunch of other people.

Wow. Okay, I have another question for you, another myth or non-myths. Is it true that everybody should get eight hours of sleep? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, the amount of people that can function off of six hours of sleep is less than 1% in the population, yeah, optimally.

And it's actually probably more. So they did this study last year, is it Harvard in Japan? And it was a pretty cool study. The average age, I think, was 30. They took everyone. They let them get acclimated to having the ability to sleep as long as you want. You can sleep up to 14 hours. So that's trying to find the optimal amount of sleep.

So they brought them into the lab, they let them get acclimated for a few nights, and then they were like, sleep as long as you want. And the average is about eight and a half hours. So that's actually where it ended up being, which is more than thought. So if you're someone that's like, I really need like eight, maybe even more, that's actually not weird. That's the norm when we look at it. But what was interesting was almost everyone in the study was getting over seven hours of sleep when they came in. In the first few nights, most people slept 10 hours.

So they were, even though they're sleeping over seven hours, they were chronically under slept and their body was trying to make up for it. So that's a good like litmus test. Like if you ever go on vacation and kind of stress free and you can sleep as long as you want, if you're sleeping like 10 hours or you feel like you can't sleep 10 hours,

you're probably chronically under slept. Wow. Well, I thought it was the opposite because I'm habitually used to waking up so early. There's part of the circadian rhythm too. I'll just wake up super early. Which also happens. So there's some, you know,

you can poke some holes in that, but in general, if that's happening. Well, cause I'll tell wake up super early. Which also happens. So there's some, you can poke some holes in that, but in general, if that's happening. Well, cause I'll tell you what happens. My kid for the last, he's now 11 and another one is nine, for like, I don't know, eight years of this kid's life, how I wake, he's my alarm clock. He comes into my room, he like basically lies on top of me and like, and just like basically terrorizes me me and he's getting, it's getting harder

and harder cause he's getting bigger. And so I'm so used to that happening at like six o'clock. That like, even if I have like a night to myself or I'm on a holiday or whatever, I'm traveling for work, I'll still just pop my eyes open because I'm used to that behavior. Even though I am, but by the way, I am under slept. Because I've conditioned myself to think that, oh yeah, as long as I got like six and a half hours,

at least I didn't get four, but I'm exhausted. Yeah, I mean, the other thing with that study is they didn't know what time it was or couldn't see any light outside. So that has an impact too. Like if you start, your circadian rhythm is triggered by the light. So you take that out of the equation.

But yeah, if you're always tired, we got to do something about it. I know, I mean, like this is the thing, right? You're pretty high energy for being always tired. I couldn't, maybe I don't want you to sleep. I know. I don't know if I want to be around for that. See, I think that we all, I think people in general,

what we do is we adapt to what we know, like to what our circumstances, right? Like you don't know what you don't know, right? Like all I know is that I get about six and a half to seven hours of sleep, which, you know, I just kind of like, I don't like, for an example, like until you have something that's much better, you didn't know what you were missing, right?

Also, ignorance is bliss of sleep sometimes. Some of the people that know the most about sleep, sleep the worst because they think about it too much. So like if you're sleeping well, like don't go down this rabbit hole trying to figure it and do all the stuff. Like keep that positive association and if you can fall asleep fast, like keep doing your thing.

And also relationships, super important. If you have like personal relationships that are fulfilling and satiating. One point, one thing to point out with relationships though is like, that's a huge issue a lot of times in relationships is just waking each other up. So like memory foam mattress, easy fix.

Like, you know, if your partner's waking up three times and you're waking up three times, all of a sudden that's six times. If you have a mattress that mounts you around. So having something that doesn't transfer force is a useful tool. Oh, that's a great idea. So have a different, what kind of mattress do people use? Any memory foam, you around. So having something that doesn't transfer force is a useful tool. Oh, that's a great idea. So have a different, what kind of mattress do people use?

Any memory foam, you know. Memory foam mattresses. I love memory foam mattresses because like I said, like I could bounce on my side of the bed and Katie wouldn't feel anything. I am writing that down. Yeah. That makes a big difference. Huge difference.

How about, okay, but, and you also said something about a pillow. What kind of pillow? I like a memory foam pillow too. That's kind of personal preference, but I think the reason I like memory foam is because you can kind of create that squared off shape. Totally. Think about your neck and your shoulder.

You kind of want that filled in. I'm a side sleeper. So if you're a side sleeper, you want that. If you happen to be a back sleeper and you breathe well, you don't want a very elevated pillow. You might do a down pillow because you don't want your neck forward. You want to have good posture.

What is the number one question that people ask you about sleep? Number one question people ask, how many hours should they get? That's usually what I get. Really? No, it's usually the most open-ended question, like what's the best way to fix my sleep?

And I'm like, I'm not gonna stand that long. You have an hour? Yeah. Okay, what was one of the best questions that you've ever been asked about sleep hygiene that you were like, wow, you know what? That's actually a great piece of information I should share with people.

That's a great question. I mean, we covered a lot. I mean- That's why I can't pay the big bucks, not. A lot of people, I mean, the biggest issue people have is saying I wake up at a certain time in the middle of the night, every single night, like why can't I fall back asleep?

Again, referring to a sleep issue. And it's like, well, if you're checking your phone every time you're creating anxiety, just by checking the time, like eliminate that and you probably are gonna have a much better situation. But I think like- Oh yeah, people always talk about keeping your phone away from you in a different room when you're sleeping.

That would actually give me anxiety to be honest, but that's neither here nor there. Yeah, that's great. But I honestly like, I think if there's one overarching theme here, it's like all these things we're talking about that are physical things you can do for your sleep hold nothing to the psychology and the feelings associated with your bedroom and not over thinking sleep

and feeling peaceful, feeling relaxed and feeling like you're stress free. I think people attack all that other stuff first and they're a disaster on the other side. 100%. And also vice versa, like you can't have a ton of stress throughout the day and then bang, turn it off and go to sleep.

What's your thoughts on different foods that are good for sleep? What would you say? Do people ask you that? Should I be having warm milk before I go to bed? Yeah, well, I'd ask them if it was the 1940s if they said that. You know why I said that?

Because my mother always talks about, you should have some more milk before you go to bed. I mean, really the good thing is like giving yourself. She's actually almost 80. That makes sense. Yeah. But giving yourself like a gap, a time gap from like, yeah, if you're three hours

before bed, it's great. Let yourself digest. And then the other thing that seems to be useful is just having like a low glycemic meal, meaning like a good combination of proteins, fats, carbs. Like when you spike your blood sugar, you know, I've seen with people like it creates almost this like reaction wave when you have like a ton of like sugar or something and then tends to disrupt sleep more throughout the night.

So low glycemic is usually a good path. Okay, I'm no sleep expert, but I think that I am, I do have an opinion on certain things that we just kind of talked about. I know it's shocking. First opinion right here. I know, this is, I know. I'm such a meek person normally.

Yeah. I think so much of this stuff, I mean, a lot of the stuff that you, that's again, like I repeat, I don't want to repeat myself, but I think a lot of the stuff that you said was you take a different approach to sleep, which is what I really like about you. And I think a lot of this stuff is emotional,

psychological stuff. 100%. And so like people have to do trial and error, you know, like what works for you. Yeah. People can say to me all day, well, don't eat three hours before you go to sleep and don't have fruit because the sugar blah, blah, blah.

But guess what? I like eating my apples before I go to bed and it makes me feel good and it makes me feel comforted. So guess what? I'm going to eat my apple and then I'll fall asleep better knowing that my stomach is yummy and full versus feeling that I'm depriving myself and starving and going to bed with an empty stomach where I'm thinking all the time. I'll wake up at night and be like, I'm hungry and I'll go downstairs and eat if I don't feel like I ate enough before.

So like I think a lot of this is know thyself, know like what works for you. Try some things kind of like give yourself some grace, you know, like look at your life in lots of different ways and see what is actually not working for you and why you're maybe staying up all night or not being able to fall asleep and work on those things. I hate to say it, but a lot of these things in the wellness space is not rocket science. We try to make these things so much more complicated than it really is. We've tried to make sleep more complicated, nutrition more complicated, all of it more complicated versus just being a real person and just looking at your life and being like, am I happy with my life? What do I like

about my life? What do I don't like? What don't I like about my life? And tweak it as you go and not to be so hard on yourself. You'll be much happier in the long run. Yeah, and if you have a poor night's sleep, you're here. You've survived many poor nights of sleep and you're gonna be fine. You're gonna get through the next day and you have another shot at it tomorrow night. Exactly, I know that it's gonna be like,

oh, even in clips, weight gain and bad sleep, you're not gonna become morbidly obese by having a bad night's sleep. Will it be helpful to you if you're someone who's struggling with weight to try to get more sleep? Yes. So just like try to get like another hour or two of sleep, you know? But guess what? That is not enough to like get you super fit.

Also, it's just another thing that can help you get to- Just greases the skin a little bit. Exactly. It allows you, it lubricates the situation a little bit. Exactly. Both are those. But if you're even listening to this, you probably have enough awareness

that you're probably doing the right things to get better sleep. And it just gotta give us some time and give yourself some grace and you'll get there. Nothing, sleep is one of those things where, like you said, it's psychological. So like, you're not gonna listen to this, implement five things and then have an immediate fix.

Your body has to get used to it. It takes time and you start to get the psychology and associating that with sleep and you'll be in a good place. But yeah, grace is powerful. And sleep should be something that's, stress and sleep should be nothing associated in your life. They should be the opposite side of the spectrum.

You should be so excited to go to bed because that's the one place where you feel like everything kind of melts away. Or because you're just tired and need to go to sleep. Well, I was gonna say, we didn't talk about it, but I wanna talk about a great sleep tool is there is so much truth to like wearing yourself out. Exercising, even like we just found out not too long ago,

exercise is net positive. It used to even be like, don't exercise close to bedtime. Oh God no. All the new data that came out, it's all net positive for sleep. Now different types of exercise affect our different sleep cycles and when we do it, whatever, but it's all net positive.

So even if it's right before bed, you're better off moving than not doing anything. There's no negative outcome that happens from working out or exercise. I am like literally a broken record when it comes to this because whenever someone asks me a question, I just say, exercise, workout. Like if you are mad, go exercise.

If you're anxious, go exercise. If you are depressed, go exercise. If you need to like let out some steam, go exercise. Like it's actually like the best drug, antidepressant. That's so good. And then anything else. You know what's crazy about sleep though, that I really, a lot of people have problems sleeping.

But you know, when you think about health and wellness, exercise is hard, right? Like it's not easy, right? Eating good is hard. A lot of this stuff is difficult. Sleep is like the most enjoyable thing of all these things. Of all of them. Everyone's. Sleep is like the most enjoyable thing of all these things. Everyone's so resistant to like jumping on board that sleep should be prioritized and all

these people. I'm like, why are we fighting the one thing that everyone likes? I know. Well, I think it's because like, again, like sometimes they even say like the more energy you put on something or the more you ruminate about it. Like that's why even therapy is, it could be problematic. There's a lot of research now on that, right? Because the more you ruminate on your. That's why even therapy could be problematic. There's a lot of research now on that, right? Because the more you ruminate on your own, right? The more you ruminate on your own problems, it actually gets you deeper down that rabbit hole and that black hole of angst and unhappiness.

Number one symptom of depression is talking about your problems. Say that again. The number one symptom of depression is talking about your problems. Exactly. And I would say the number one issue or the number one symptom of depression is talking about your problems. Exactly. And I would say the number one issue or the number one symptom of a sleep problem

is talking about how bad you sleep and thinking about it. 100%. I'm a big believer in that. And that's why when people like, I'm living in the Mecca of therapy land here. What does somebody tell me? Like, do you go to therapy for life or do you live to go to therapy?

That is such a great thing. I will tell you in LA, you live to go to therapy. This person lived in LA. This person lived in LA too. I'm from Canada. I come from a smaller town where, and also maybe it's a time we, I'm like a latch-gate kid.

I grew up in the 80s. I feel like we kind of kid, you know, I grew up in like the eighties, you know, like, I feel like, you know, we kind of just have to figure shit out. And there's, I mean, I think that's a, that's a lost art. And I think I was on the tail end of that, like generation of like, I was still like, you kind of, you didn't really talk about stuff, but you just press forward.

But when you look at like all the data coming out, it's like, there is a huge advantage to just kind of figuring out your problems and emotion. And I think there's like, the pendulum swung way far. Way too far. We're gonna come back to the middle, but I think you need to be able to work through things and figure things out.

And it's okay that you're, it's normal to feel anxious. Like when you care about something, you're gonna be anxious. And that's a great feeling to have as a reason for it. But it's like, just cause you feel a little uncomfortable doesn't mean there's a clinical issue going on. That's the thing. Again, just because you feel uncomfortable does not mean it's a clinical issue going on. That's the thing. Again, just because you feel uncomfortable

does not mean it's a clinical issue. And that's what's happening, especially where I live in Los Angeles, New York, or anywhere where the socioeconomic level is higher. It's like, oh, I have a problem. Maybe I'll run to therapy. You know, if I told you how much therapists charge here and like, you can't even get in.

You cannot even get in to see a therapist around here. And if you do, you're paying like $400 for a 15 minute session. It is literally absurd to me. Yeah. And, and you can't even like make an appointment. And so to me, I feel like number one, the fact that like it's make it, you're, you're preying on

people's discomfort is I think an awful thing and no one's wanting to take insurance, which is a whole other podcast altogether. But the other thing is I think an awful thing and no one's wanting to take insurance, which is a whole other podcast altogether but the other thing is I think this idea of Running to therapy to try to figure out your problems or focusing on your problems too much the sleep The whatever the thing is is part of the problem as well Great well of athletes that come up saying like before races like I get super nervous and I can't, you know, I'm kind of shaky. I'm like, yeah, like you care about it

and you want to do well. That's a great feeling. Like you should be anxious. And I think like, you know, it's a skill of almost, you know, becoming comfortable with that feeling and adapting and like getting used to it and almost leveraging it for positive. Like some of that, you know,

cortisol and anxiety is meant to give you energy. That's why it happens. It's like if a lion came after us, it's meant to give us energy to get away. It's the same feeling of emotion in something in our life. It's like if you care about it and it's a big deal, you can leverage some of that like anxiety and some of that physiological response

to actually propel you forward and then deal with it, whatever it is that's giving you that energy. Yeah, 100%. It's what actually makes you wanna do well. Yeah, for sure. Right? It's like, there's nothing wrong with it. And now we've been conditioned to think that there's something wrong with it.

Yeah, if you're really trying to reach your potential, you should kind of feel a little anxious like all the time. There should be a little touch of like, can I pull this off? This is a lot to take on. This is pretty advantageous. I don't know if I can do all these things. And that's probably a sign that you're pushing yourself.

And it's like a healthy amount. Because otherwise you're just stagnating and just kind of living in your comfort zone of good enough. Like, oh, I can do this status quo. How do you know what you don't know of what you can do and what you can accomplish if you don't at least? Try to make an attempt at it, right? And that's really you want to talk about not being happy

That's the absence of happiness when you really have no feelings of being uncomfortable and like you're pushing yourself and you're overwhelmed It's just coasting a hundred percent agree with you. Well, this was fun. Thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me You're welcome. Maybe we can do something. I've been trying to be cool enough for a long time. I know. I've been working on it. You made it. I've tried to step my game up.

You've become cool enough. I even wore nicer clothes, so I tried to step my game up. I know you got dressed up. I usually wore gym clothes like 99% of the time. Really? So you did this for me? I did.

Wow. I should be very flattered and I am. That's very nice. You look very gentlemanly. I am. That's very nice. You look very gentlemanly. Got you. And very professional. Appreciate it.

Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you. Bye.