Habits and Hustle - Episode 386: Bonus Episode - Helping Girls Overcome Barriers to Become Entrepreneurs

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

After working in Silicon Valley, Ebony Peay Ramirez quickly realized that young girls are not being taught entrepreneurial skills like their male peers are. So she launched Build Her World, an online platform aimed at helping girls aged 9-13 to build ideas and develop entrepreneurial skills. Sanjay and Ebony discuss the next generation of leaders, career transitions, and having a creative outlet. Listen to the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit: entm.ag/hiscox

Hey, everyone. Today we're playing you an episode from another podcast we think you'd really like, and it's called Side Hustle to Small Business, created by Hiscox. In this episode, they talk about helping girls overcome barriers when starting a business. And today, you'll meet Ebony, who launched an online platform aimed at helping girls build ideas and developing entrepreneurial skills. Listen to the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast on Apple podcasts or Spotify. New episodes every Wednesday. Welcome to the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast powered by Hiscox.

I'm your host, Sanjay Parikh. Throughout my career, I've had side hustles, some of which have turned into real businesses. But first and foremost, I'm a serial technology entrepreneur. In the creator space, we hear plenty of advice on how to hustle harder and why you can sleep when you're dead. On this show, we ask new questions in hopes of getting new answers. Questions like, how can small businesses work smarter?

How do you achieve balance between work and family? How can we redefine success in our businesses so that we don't burn out after year three? Every week, I sit down with business founders at various stages of their side hustle to small business journey. These entrepreneurs are pushing the envelope while keeping their values.

Keep listening for conversation, context, and camaraderie. conversation, context, and camaraderie. Today's guest is Ebony P.A. Ramirez, a DEI consultant and founder of Build Her World, an app designed to help girls aged 9 to 13 build their businesses. She joins us today from Seattle, Washington. Ebony, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Sunjai. Glad to be here. Yeah, so I'm excited to have you

because talking to somebody else that's helping founders, even though they're young founders, start their companies, is always exciting to me. But before we get into that, give us a little bit about your background and what got you to where you are today. Okay, well, you said it, I'm born in Seattle, Washington, born and raised here, so I'm Pacific Northwest

a diehard fan, Seahawks, all of it. I went to the University of Washington, grew up in a family of five and we were very, I would say entrepreneurial inquisitive or entrepreneurial adjacent. So parents were always asking us those questions, what do we want to be, what do we want to do, what do we want to try?

And so we always had their support. So I want to do, what we want to try. And so we always had their support. So I went to the University of Washington to actually study dance and fell in love with performance. And so I went to New York upon graduation and went to Alvin Ailey to study by an extension program and started to choreograph as well as perform. So my favorites are hip hop and modern

or some kind of fusion of the two. And I did that for about six years. And obviously while you're dancing, we didn't have TikTok at the time or YouTube. So we couldn't make money immediately by my sponsorship. So you needed a place to like cushion that bank account. So I ended up going to executive administrative route, which in New York is a

career all in itself and pays extremely well. And so I was able to do that to support myself as well as audition and take on side jobs for dancing. And I ended up at Goldman Sachs, which was probably not good for my artistic career because I soon learned how much money I was missing out on. And so by that, I learned a lot about the stock market and it happened to coincide with the 2008 crash. And so I ended up moving from there, but taking all of this kind of like newfound knowledge of money, as well as insight on, wow, maybe I should actually go make more money. Dancing.

So I kind of hung up my dancing dreams at that point, ended up through a couple of different roles, Bloomberg, and then I landed at a startup. And by that time in my career, I thought, you know, I think I want to do entrepreneurship. I worked directly with the founder of the company, at Conductor, and I just loved being in that seat. Every day is a new day. And I wanted to either become a venture capitalist or launch my own company, but I wanted to get some Silicon Valley experience. So I popped over to Silicon Valley and I was so lucky enough to get hired

by the team at Oculus. And at that time it was their EA, but I was very, very focused on DEI, really, really well from birth, pretty much. And so I grabbed all the opportunities and then transitioned into a PM role there and loved it for four years, popped into after that, taking a little break, raised a venture capital fund

and then, because I wanted to see what that would feel out, you know, test out my fundraising skills, did not too bad, and then I decided that Builder World was probably something that needed to exist and so I started to work on that. Yeah, just for listeners to make sure they know DEI, The regular world was probably something that needed to exist. And so I started to work on that. Yeah. Just for listeners to make sure they know DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion, and PM role, you said product manager, right?

That's what you mean by PM. You're right. PM could be product manager. I was a program manager, just to be clear on that. Program manager. Okay. Yeah. See.

Good thing I clarified. Awesome. So was this the first time, so Build Her World, is this the first time you've started your own company? Or you said you were entrepreneurial adjacent, which I love that word, when you were younger, were you doing some hustling things when you were young? And what was the first thing? Yes, but much more socially. So, like the money part didn't come until later. So, I, by the time that I was, oh gosh, like 13, I was already a pretty good dancer.

And so a lot of people kind of would come to me and ask me to perform. So I started to perform, started my own dance group in junior high, and then started another one in high school. In high school is when I started to get paid. And then also at the University of Washington, I started the dance group there and we obviously started to get paid there too. So I would say from the dance perspective, I was very much getting paid before.

Again, not as lucrative as the TikTokers, but enough to keep me energized and passionate and like, okay, I can probably fuel this career for a little bit. Yeah, I think your story there shows timing is everything when it comes down to it, like just a few years later and TikTok, you would be the new Charlie D'Amelio or something like that. So, okay, when you decided to go in and explain to us what Build Her World is actually before I ask you that question.

Absolutely. So it's essentially a platform for girls to learn what entrepreneurship is. Entrepreneur is not necessarily a word that at that age and at that group actually like adapt or adopt quite quickly. So I changed it to builder because that's kind of a term that really encompasses the crafting, the building, the creative right around 10 to 12 or 10 to 13 generation alpha girls, that's what we're focusing on. Those are the ages in which parents finally kind of get it

that you are kind of consistently learning a new tool or a new craft, and it's really the age where you start to get really good at building your skillset in a particular craft. And so it felt it was really important to grab at that age. It also happens to be the ages right before you start all of that insecurity that's that starts to mount up, right? And you know, 14, 15, 16, you start to question yourself and doubt yourself.

So it was really important for me to get in at that intersection to start building those skills. And really, it's like it's more muscle building in my opinion than anything else. If a girl actually builds a company out of it, that is, I mean, that's crème de la crème, that's me hitting it out of the park. But I would say more importantly, it's about inclusive collaboration. It's about understanding that a setback is just,

you gotta change your mindset and keep going after the skill. And then the most importantly is the fundamental like entrepreneurship skill sets that a lot of boys get, but a lot of girls don't get. Yeah, yeah. I love that and it's funny you mentioned that nervousness or self-doubt.

We hear that so many times with our guests on this podcast where I ask the question of, what would you do differently or something like that? And a lot of it is that self-doubt of like, well, I don't know all the things that I need to know. And honestly, most of us that start companies, we don't know all the things. And you're building the bicycle

as you're pedaling down the street for almost everybody. Even the people that you see that are successful. Exactly. They've done the exact same thing. So let me ask you this then, when you were starting this, was there something that made you nervous about doing this and how did you overcome that for yourself? Yeah, I would say there's two main things. So if you look at the app, it's a very diverse character kind of rap, meaning the branding

of it is essentially through six different characters of girls, all of various backgrounds. So from a black American, Asian American, Southeast Asian American, Latin American, I mean, I have everything to be represented. And I'm probably missing some just because this world's so beautifully diverse. But it was really important to me to kind of create characters that girls would be able to connect with, to kind of tell the story and guide them along their journey. And I am not a illustrator. So I had to figure out how to create these cartoons.

And again, this is before any kind of AI cartoon making or a little bit before like maybe the gig economy where you can just hire anybody. So I had to figure out how to do that. I of course did not draw them, which I think that's why they are beautiful because I was able to get my hands on some extremely brilliant illustrators and trying to figure out and identify that that was the first one that I had to really like get over and not get intimidated about. And then the second piece is I am not I can do a little bit of unity as a coder and a little bit of like HTML or CSS. But let's be real, like coding has gone way past that now. And so, I mean,

it's gotten way more sophisticated. And I was not about to take a class and then crash course this thing. So I had to figure out how to hire a development team and work closely with them, adopt their language, and really try to come up to speed so that we can have like really great communication and work together to build the app. I will say that I had a benefit of being in tech for a while, so I had a little bit of introduction to a lot of those terms and processes, but it was a whole different thing doing it on my own,

and of course on my own budget. So those are the two things that I had to get over. Yeah, yeah. I pretend to code still to this day. I wasn't a good coder 20 years ago. And now it's like, oh, I'm probably really, really not good at this point. But we're going to avoid that subject for now. Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox, committed to helping small businesses protect

their dreams since 1991. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, the business insurance experts. Okay, so when you decided, you know, what was it that made you take that leap? You were doing a venture fund, doing all these things. What made you decide like, hey, I want to go all in on this one thing?

Was there an event? Was there like some aha moment that caused you to think like, I got to do this all in? I would say that when I was in venture, and I would, it was just as hard being in venture as a woman in tech, specifically a woman of color in tech, as it was in being in a tech company. Right. And so I would talk to a lot of the women and a lot of them were having fun, but some of them weren't. And so it kind of like, I don't know, something kind of, you know, went off in me a little bit of like, am I having fun right now? I really do believe that you should really love what you do. You just get that much more out of it. And so I would work with the founders and I realized that I had just a very good way

of working with founders. And I was like, you know, this is amazing. I feel like I'm getting fed just as much as I get the feedback that they're feeling like I'm adding value to them. And so that probably was it for me when I said, I need to go on all on this. And then I would say the second piece of that is, you know, sometimes frustration fuels, right? And so it motivates.

And so I got very frustrated not seeing enough younger girls having the opportunities. If you take a 13 year old kid from Silicon Valley, that's me, the boy, oftentimes you're going to find that that kid has either launched something, his mother or father has launched something, they're about to launch. And you know, they had the terminology, the vocabulary, and I was frustrated by that. But if you took a girl, not necessarily you were gonna get that.

Not that they couldn't do it because they're obviously brilliant, but it wasn't any targeted or geared focus to that. And so that really made me mad. So I was like, it's time, it's just time. And I think I waited a couple years thinking another group would do it and I still see that it's not done. And I was like, yeah, it's time.

Let's just go. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. I do the same thing. I've got a long list of ideas and I'm very happy when other people do them because that's one less thing that I have to do. All right, because the list is already long. I'm not gonna get them all done anyways.

But sometimes people just don't do some of these. What is wrong with you people? Okay, fine. I'll do it. And it's nice to hear that you're the same way. Yeah. Okay. So the company is, is it just you?

Is it more people? How big is the company right now? So I would say from a technical standpoint, the company's technically like three, but 1099 are contractors. I haven't hired any full-time yet. I'm on track to do that probably in about another year. Probably gonna year by myself and with a couple of contractors,

but I'll probably onboard maybe one or two contractors. As we've just kind of hit one of our major clients, we'll need a little bit more support in the kind of organization of stuff. So I think that we'll be growing a little bit more this year faster than I anticipated. Yeah, so you got a couple of people and then basically flex up with a development team

and all of these ad hoc illustrators and folks like that. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so let's switch gears a little bit. Even though you're helping girls with their businesses, running your own business is stressful. And so how do you manage the stress of owning a business and everything else that happens in life? How do you balance these things for yourself?

Gosh, what a great question that one is. I would say, and do I have a one point answer? You know what I mean? Not just one answer. And then, you know, it's a great question. So balance is not quite the word that I embrace. Although let's start there. I think that you always have-

Is it juggling? It is juggling, yeah. Yeah, it's not a balance. It's not... Some things require your attention at different times, right? And so I think that when I'm able to kind of shortchange a little bit on the DEI consulting, I can beef up more of the focus on the builder world. And then knowing when it's the right time to beef up and then when it's okay to get back to what's truly

paying my mortgage and all my other bills. So also I would say that I happen to have a pretty good support team, meaning I've built some amazing relationships and network with people that have been founders that I can go to that keep the stress down. Other entrepreneurs and other ways like real estate that I've built relationships with that can always remind me like, hey, what's the focus point here? I have an incredibly amazing husband who's completely supportive, 100% sister family. They're just all very supportive.

And so they know when I need a moment to like pause and I'm not like overly burdened with things. Say for instance, like if we're going to have a big cookout, don't expect me to cook something. Maybe I'll supply the supplies of the meat or the sides. So it's really just adjusting within every day, but knowing what's the most important to spend your time on. That's how I balance.

Yeah. So I'm not sure I realized this until now when you said this, but you're balancing between being a DEI consultant as well as Build Her World. What's your split between these two in terms of time? So I would say in the beginning of last year, it was more of like a 80-20. And I should say that in the DEI space, I'm also a coach for two other accelerators. So I have my hands in a lot of things, but that also keeps me really sharp to be able to write, to bring those learnings to my business for Build-A-World. So I would say now the split is probably about a 60-40,

60 on Build-A-World and 40 on the DEI. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so your plan eventually is to go 100% on Build-A-World. 100%, yeah. Right, okay. And so your plan eventually is to go 100% on Builder World. Yeah. Right? OK.

So that's great. So then let's talk about then the boundaries, because the consulting side is presumably the thing that pays the bills right now. How do you manage these things and make sure that you've got those guide rails and that you're able to spend the time and build a world because that's where your passion is.

And that's where your hopefully future income and all that comes from. But right now the moneymaker is the other thing. How do you set the boundaries between these two? And then more broadly, how do you set the boundaries between business and personal life? Because you're doing two things. You've got a side hustle and a full-timer. Maybe it's two side hustles. I don't know how you'd consider it.

You're just hustling a lot. How do you make sure this doesn't eat up 24-7, every day, every week, all the time? Oh man, can I say that it doesn't eat up? It eats up at least one, it eats up at least one week weekend a month for sure. But I'm working on it every day. I would say that time blocking is probably the best boundary

that I put in place. And I'm pretty efficient now with my DEI practice. It's something that I've been doing for 10 years and officially, but I mean, like I've been doing DEI since high school and college, like in University of Washington I was on their diversity advisory board. I mean, I've on their diversity advisory board. I've been doing it for a while, volunteering at various places as soon as I went to New

York. So I kind of live in an ecosystem of the DEI. So for me, it's actually not quite hard. That said, obviously, there's time that's required to my clients. So I would say it's time blocking is probably the most. To constantly checking in on my clients, making sure they feel that they're getting the value that I've committed to.

And if there's an issue, which luckily for me, thank the Lord, hasn't been an issue, then I'm able to put a couple hours in into Build a World. And then I would say constant communication with the family, if I need a late night or an early morning communicating that, hey, I'm not gonna be available as soon as possible. So scheduling, I'm a pretty good scheduler. As I said before, I had experience as an EA,

so I know how to schedule pretty well. So that's where I would say. Also, I would say as far as the boundary goes, I don't subscribe to like, hustle is definitely like part of it. There's no way you can't do some of it, but I don't subscribe to like overly hustling. If something feels like it's getting to a place like good, great, perfection is not a place I ever live in.

And so good and great is kind of what I go back into. One of the, you asked about boundaries, so good and great is kind of what I go back into. One of the you asked about boundaries. So I think this is important to say, I don't, I don't ever go to perfectionism. And, and maybe like, you know, somebody will get hired later in the brand and they're like, Oh, this needs to be a little bit more perfect. Maybe I'll let them handle the perfectionism. But I think that good and great will get it there. Almost like no 98% of the time. And so that's kind of the boundary that I do put for myself.

It keeps me from being overly stressed. Yeah, that's an interesting insight because I tend to be more on the perfection side sometimes. And I'm very detail oriented. Like I like things to be right. And I'm a strong believer in when you're doing things, even the things that people don't see, they should be right as well.

Because that one person that does see it will then appreciate all the effort in the whole thing. But I do recognize that sometimes that's not helpful in trying to accomplish things. So that is definitely a balance for me. You mentioned time blocking. Is there something that you do in terms of a tool or is it just using the calendar

and just using it effectively? Or is there something that you do to make that effective for yourself? No, it's very simple. It's color coding, calendar, and just using the calendar very effectively. And really putting in breaks for myself, like say for instance, if I looked at my calendar,

every minute of the day is probably pretty organized. Like the lunch is put in, the break to take a walk is put in. Those are the kind of things that I kind of live and die by. I also have, I would say another one that I do. I used to take a lot of kind of interruptive calls or emails. I don't do that anymore, and that has probably increased my efficiency quite a bit. Really thinking about why I'm using my time and what it's designated for and staying very close to that

is probably one of the most important things that I've learned as far as allowing kind of those interruptive, oh, let me get back to this person. This person is paying me. I really hold truth to my calendar in that sense. Yeah. And that's a hard thing because it's only gotten worse over time hasn't it? Cell phones and then we have email and now you have things like Slack and Discord and like all of these things where it's constant notification

that you feel like you're on somebody else's time and not your own. Yeah. So that's an interesting insight. So, you know, in your kind of your daily and weekly calendar, you mentioned lunch and going out, taking walks. What else is like constant that is like preplanned in there

that doesn't vary? Well, I was a dancer, so obviously a dance session is happening every day, just so you know. It's every day it's happening. So, you know, that's a requirement for me. It's the way that I express and get it all out. So that's happened. Easier to do now that I'm working from home

versus when I was in the office, obviously. I'm just having an image of you, Ebony, at Goldman Sachs, dancing in the office. And they're all like, why is she doing that? What is she doing exactly? Is she having, does something good happen we don't know about? What is happening? Yeah, Goldman, not so much.

Maybe at another company, the startups, they'll join in, but yeah, Goldman, not so much. But it happened. So a dance session every day. That's a good lesson for everybody. Whatever your hobby is, maybe schedule it in every day. Yeah, you got to keep it close. I do a little photography thing, so oftentimes on the walk, I would take the 20 minute walk

and just take pictures as well. So, and I feel like that keeps me creatively like motivated as well. It also keeps me very humble, right? Cause I'm not great at it. So it keeps my humility intact. It's like, yeah, you got some learning to do. So it reminds me of that.

What's your camera of choice? Are you just using your cell phone or is it an actual camera? It's an actual camera. It's a Leica SL. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So nice camera. Yeah. We're a Canon family ourselves. I started with Canon. I started with Canon. Yeah. Yeah. I started with Canon. Canon is a great brand. I love it. Yeah, Leica makes some real, and some of their newer cameras are really beautiful. Oh my goodness, got some on my last. Not to mention performance, but they also look good too, so. Which, you know, it's funny how much everything has changed

in terms of how we view products. You know, if you think back 20 years ago, it just had to work. Yeah, absolutely true. And now it also has to look good. That's right. Because if something that works better than and doesn't look as good, it's just not going to sell.

Yeah. And I think I'm happy about that being the place that we're in personally. I am as well. I have a high aesthetic for things. So yeah, I would agree with that. I love matter of fact, probably like a I I mean, it's a beautiful product, period, like as it produces these beautiful pictures, but it's one of the most beautiful

pieces of technology made into cameras. So like, I'm very attracted to that. So yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's switch gears a little bit and think about going back in time. You've had kind of a long career,

spending back to New York and being an EA and all these things. You know, if you could go back in time and do something differently, well, what is that thing that you do differently and why? Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's I think that's an easy one for me. I would probably have gone into science research. And, you know, when the COVID situation happened, that might have been the moment where I was like, shoot, did I miss my calling?

You know, to go and study sciences, particularly in, you know, epidemiology or oncology, those are the two that I would probably would have had the calling for. I tried to go that direction in the beginning, but I was too much of a talker. So it did not work out for me. I did well with the grades,

but I just talked a little too much. So I think that I wouldn't have focused for long hours. I worked in labs. It just, you know, they were like, get this girl out of here. They were not, yeah, it wasn't a good, that's about what I probably would have done. You know, it may be a different kind of impact to society that I think I would have wanted

to aspire to. Yeah. I can see that as a necessary skill for somebody who's working a lot. My dad was actually a microbiologist for many, many years. He worked for the CDC. And yeah, he had his lab by himself. So himself in his lab, doing his work, nobody to bother him, that's how he liked it.

I think that might be a common trait with people that are doing research like that. Okay. You need to focus. Yeah, you need to focus. And I think you and I are probably the same where we need the people as well. Exactly.

That doesn't really mix with the research. Okay. So, uh, thinking about kind of all the things that you've done, you can do inside hustles now, you're working with girls, doing all these things. Um, if you're talking to somebody who is thinking about taking that leap and launching a side hustle or taking their side hustle and making it a full-time business, what kind of advice would you give to them? Oh my gosh.

I don't know if you're gonna like it. So I'm gonna say, there's two pieces of advice. One, the first piece of advice would be a question. Do you see what the current offer is? The current offer is long hours, unappreciative, you not getting the value that you could ever make on your own and, you know, micromanaging. That offer is not really great. It's great to learn for a couple your own and, you know, micromanaging. That offer is not really great.

It's great to learn for a couple of years or, you know, a decade. And, you know, shout out to everyone, you know, working hard with that because, you know, we're all trying to support our families and ourselves and how we need to do that is so important and valued. But I would say that's the first part of it, is like, you know, the current offer is not that great. The second thing is the reward that you get for walking into your passion,

and if you're able to make money with it, I mean, the value that you feel at night won't feel as much exhaustion, or maybe you'll feel exhaustion, but it'll be a nice kind of reuse of exhaustion. I think that you, like, emphatically will be much more successful in your life if you're able to align with something of your passion. So that's the first thing that I would say. Two, I would say, or three, I guess, the third piece of advice is we all make mistakes and

just assume you're going to make tons. And so the faster that you accept that is the quicker that you'll be able to not only get past those mistakes but learn from them as well and then be better at what's your end goal, towards your end goal. Yeah, I think that advice is actually spot on. Entrepreneurs, people doing entrepreneurship for the money are not necessarily always successful. If you're doing it to make a difference in the world,

make a dent in the world, I think there's much more chance that you're gonna be happy and that you're gonna be successful. And hopefully that means it comes into some financial rewards to you because of that. So my next question for you, I've got two questions actually left for you.

One, we talked a little bit about technology around time blocking, things like that. Is there any other kind of technology or apps or systems that you use to keep you going, keep your day sane, you know, all these things you've learned a lot as somebody who's basically managing and helping managing these large organizations, what do you use to keep the train running on the tracks? No, I wish I don't think that I use anything particularly well, but I guess I'll share and helping managing these large organizations. What do you use to keep the train running on the tracks? No, I don't think that I use anything particularly well, but I guess I'll share just a little bit of the systems,

but they're probably what everybody else use. Slack, I think is fantastic. I really do. I think WhatsApp is fantastic from an international standpoint. I love most of, I mean, this is not gonna be a shocker since I worked with Apple, but I'm an Apple head. I just am. I love, I think that the way that they make the product so beautiful and that I've had an intimate relationship with those that did design the works, they

put such intention into it and you feel it when you work with them. Don't get me wrong. I know there's, you know, not everything's perfect and we can go, we can have a discussion on that. And you know, I was talking to an Android person. But I think Apple products, I love Google products. I think Google does a fantastic job of their ecosystem. And I think that's about it for me. I don't think there's anything else. I'm starting now to probably adopt a little bit more chat GPT.

But slowly I am I as a DEI professional you probably not surprised to hear that And in it for those that are listening, you know, there's this conversation where you know How much inclusive minded is it and you know, what's the harm that it's doing? So I right cause I'm and don't get me wrong I'm extremely excited because that is the future where we're gonna be going Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely excited because that is the future of where we're going to be going. But we've got to be cautious. So I'm just starting now to kind of like play with that to see how we can like, you know, fast track maybe some of my systems or processes.

Yeah, yeah. That's great. Okay, last question for you. For our listeners, you know, you're working kind of exclusively in helping girls become entrepreneurs and founders. Is there anything that you think all the other founders and listeners of this podcast should be doing to help create that next generation of entrepreneurs in society? I do.

I would say, this is going to be spot on to my own personal brand inclusion It is we're missing out on a lot of genius because we're not being inclusive enough So my number one to everyone that they could be doing more of is to think who is missing from the table And who you're not who you're not making better bridges to so that your product and and what you're trying to build is accessible to everyone So I and I you know I know that I should probably put some context around what everyone means, because I know every founder maybe have a target group

that they're focused on, but really getting to the underbelly of like, how much more inclusive can you be to your product or your service? So I think that's what all the founders, I would challenge them with. I love that, I love that. Ebony, this has been fantastic.

How can our listeners find and connect with you online? Oh, absolutely. Please jump to WWBuildherworld, and it's herworld, H-E-R, world.com. That would be wonderful. You can find me also on Instagram as well. And Twitter's coming soon. So those are the three places that I would say

that you can find me. Also, you can email me at ebony at buildherworld.com as well. And I'd be happy to answer any questions and just share more about what I'm working on. Awesome. Thanks so much for coming on the show today. My pleasure. Thank you so much for being such a gracious host. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast

powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit hiscox.com. That's H-I-S-C-O-X dot com. And if you have a story you want to hear on this podcast, please visit hiscox.com slash share your story. I'm your host, Sanjay Parikh. You can find out more about me at my website, sanjayparikh.com.