Habits and Hustle - Episode 404: Liron Kayvan on ADD: Misdiagnosis, Overmedication and Strategies for Channeling it for Success

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

Is ADD a superpower or an excuse? In this Fitness Friday episode, fitness expert Liron Kayvan and I dive deep into this controversial topic, exploring the rising trend of ADD diagnoses and the potential impact on individuals and society. We discuss misdiagnosed and overmedicated children, instant gratification culture and its effect on mental health. We dive into social media's role in exacerbating ADD-like symptoms. We also discuss the mismatch between human nature and the modern environment and share strategies for channeling ADD productively.  Liron Kayvan founded BFLA in 2019. He’s a NASM Certified Group Fitness Instructor, Personal Trainer, and Transformative Life Coach. Liron has competed in Amateur MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Rugby and has been a Fitness Coach for over 10 years. What we discuss:   ADD: Misdiagnosis, overmedication, and the potential to be a superpower The impact of labeling and using labels as an excuse for behavior The rise of therapy and medication among children Instant gratification culture and its effect on mental health Social media's role in exacerbating ADD-like symptoms The importance of delayed gratification and resilience Obsession and the difference between being obsessed with the craft vs. the results The mismatch between human nature and the modern environment Strategies for channeling ADD productively and developing coping skills Thank you to our sponsors: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. BiOptimizers: Want to try Magnesium Breakthrough? Go to https://bioptimizers.com/jennifercohenand use promo code JC10 at checkout to save 10% off your purchase. Timeline Nutrition: Get 10% off your first order at timeline.com/cohen Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers.  Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen  Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements Find more about Liron Kayvan:  Website: https://www.beyondfitnessla.com/  Instagram: @beyondfitnessla

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. Hey friends, you're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle podcast where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up. [♪ Music playing. Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therisage. Their Tri-Lite panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body.

It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go and I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations and places in my body where honestly I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therisage Trilight everywhere and all the time.

It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to Thererasage.com right now and use code BEBOLD for 15% off. This code will work site-wide. Again, head over to Therasage, T-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E.com and use code BEBOLD for 15% off any of their products. Okay. Hi guys. Welcome to Fitness Friday. And I have my special guest today is Liron.

And hello Liron. Liron is a soccer player slash fitness trainer, who is someone I always work out. Well, I used to work out with you. Did I ever really? Yeah, yeah, we worked out. We talk about fitness a lot. We talk mostly about fitness and mostly about just other stuff in general. That's probably only 5% of our conversations are about fitness.

Oh my God. You know what? That's actually true. I don't even think we actually do talk about fitness. Very little. We just gloss over it and carry on. Which is funny because I like- When we do, we record it, you know?

When we do, I was going to say, usually like we actually only talk about it during these like fitness Friday episodes. We don't really talk about it like outside of the fitness Friday episodes. Well, I think it's important to have a life too. Good point. Balance. Balance. Okay. First of all, balance is not, there's such a misnomer. I don't even think balance exists.

No, it doesn't. It's something you can strive towards, but I don't think you ever actually get it. I just think that when you put that pressure on yourself that, oh, we have to strive for balance, balance, balance, that word balance, it gives people anxiety. Like, oh shit, I'm not balanced. Am I balanced? Yeah. Am I, yeah. Is my work life balance perfect? Am I'm not balanced. Am I balanced? Yeah. Yeah.

Is my work life balanced? Perfect. Am I playing enough? Am I working enough? Like, no, yeah. You're never in that state. It never happens. You're always unbalanced in some way.

Well, I think anything that you, I don't know, maybe this isn't for everybody, but for me, when I like something, I go so far into it and I'm so hyper-focused that like, there is no such thing as balance. I think most successful people have that too. They get a little bit obsessed about things. Yeah. It's like a healthy obsession. Well, I think a part of it too,

is I probably have a little bit of OCD in general, to be honest, and ADD, the combo of ADD and OCD, makes you hyper-focused on and become obsessed. Like I believe anything you want to be really good at, you have to have a level of obsession and audacity. The combination of obsession and audacity is very, very necessary. This is your next book, Jen. Maybe. Maybe. How to succeed with ADD.

How to succeed? Well, I think that ADD is a precursor for obsession, right? There's actually a study, sorry to interject, there was a study that said that there's a gene for ADD. And what they found is that that gene, when you look at like primitive people, like tribesmen and you know, know people cavemen essentially like modern day hunter-gatherers that gene made them really good at hunting and gathering. So it was actually a very adaptive gene and it made them very successful in their tribe. Like GNP 403,

you know what I mean? It's a very specific gene that is either associated or causes ADD. So they have mapped this out. They can see where ADD is in the brain and some people are predisposed towards it. But that was adaptive, meaning that was beneficial in our natural environment. It's only in the modern school system and so on and so forth where it becomes like bad, maladaptive. That's so interesting because for the longest, like first of all, if you really look at people who have ADD, most of the people that I know who have ADD grew up, they may have been really bad students because they didn't thrive in that academic school environment, but they thrived in their entrepreneurial endeavors, their career, and other things. They can actually work.

Like to me, ADD is like a superpower, right? Like does it like hinder my life with terms of administrative work and getting shit done operationally? Yes. But if I didn't have my ADD-ness, I wouldn't have been able to have gone as far as I've gone because when you have it and you find something that you're super in love with or obsessed with or passionate about, you're able to like focus so highly on that thing and go so into it. And it, it, it, you basically like supersede all these other things

because of it. Do you think that you get bored easily? Yeah. And do you think that's a good thing? No. No. I think there's pros and cons to both. Me being bored easily has pushed me to be able to, you know, seek and be curious to find and do other things, but it's also hindered me and hurt me in other things where probably being a little bored would have helped me, right? Like, you know what happens a lot with people like me, people who have ADD, you start a lot of things and you don't finish them. Right? That's a big thing. Right? Or, you know, relationships, like you are like super like into it and then you like kind of lose interest because it's like now not as exciting because like, unless

something keeps the excitement up. I'm just being honest. No, no, for sure. It's just part, I think that's kind of part of like being ADD, right? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not ADD. Oh, excuse me. Sorry. I don't really know too much about it to be honest with you aside from what I just told you before. But I think- Oh, so you just had like a factoid that you said.

Yeah, just like, just whip it out in case you- Listen, I'm no expert on it. I'm also self-diagnosed. I think people like use the word ADD and they throw it around super loosely now, like whatever. Oh, I'm ADD, oh, I'm OCD, oh, I'm- Yeah, like, oh, I'm so ADD, I can't even- I'm being ADD, like right now about this thing, yeah.

Yeah, like I think most people who think they're ADD, and by the way, I'm not even excluding myself from this, you know, are probably not ADD. Right. Right. And like you said earlier, I think that like before in time, it was not like something that was so focused on, but now everyone's focused on it. It's such a trending word. Yeah.

And it's also an excuse for people sometimes to kind of be less than or to not work as hard or to be like people use it as a crush. Someone's like, Oh, I'm Capricorn. So I do X, Y, Z. And they just like, excuse it off. Like they have to take responsibility for it. Cause they've labeled it. Oh, I'm this, I'm sorry. I'm this. I can't do this. Exactly. I think that the problem is when you label anything, then you can fall on that title or label to excuse bad behavior. You know, like I just did it myself.

I'm like, well, because I'm ADD, I lose interest in that. And that's not a good thing, right? But you also recognize that that part of your identity doesn't encapsulate who you are as a person. Like it's an aspect of your personality and you don't let it, you still take responsibility for your life. I think problem is we get labeled with anything, literally anything. Like it could be ADD, but it could also be your political affiliation.

It could be your horoscope. It could be your ethnicity. It could be anything. Like we sometimes take our labels too seriously and we make it our whole self. And then it becomes a problem, usually. Well, what do you think about children who are now being put on medication for ADD at 10 years old, 8 years old? Does anyone think that's good, apart from the people who are giving the medications?

I mean, I think it's great for Big Pharma. It's fantastic for Big Pharma. It's great for Big Pharma. You know what though, like I have a problem with it, because I think it's a problem when you put a child on medication, especially because you're dimming the things that make them who they are,

and then they get reliant on this medication, and then that's a medication they're gonna be on for 40, 50, 60, 80 years, and anything that you put yourself on medication wise, your body becomes acclimated and then you have to constantly up the dose. So why the fact that you start children on something like that for a thing that may or may

not even be, you know, because for a thing that actually could have really benefited them in real life, right? I think though, I'm actually shocked at how many people have, are putting their children on ADHD medication at a really young age. I don't know if it's just an LA thing or what, but I think what's happening is all these kids are now going to therapy really young. When parents don't know how to parent their children, they're like, I'm going to take them to a therapist. And then the therapist, you know, diagnoses them with ADD or ADHD. And then like the next thing is like, well, they should be on medication for it.

And that becomes like the slippery slope where then that becomes who that child is. That becomes who the children identify as. And then that's their crutch for anything in life. I've seen that I can actually think of someone very specific who is a younger person, 20, about to be 21. And they do that all the time. They make their labels, their identity. And I can see it limits them tremendously in life, but they also use it as a crutch to just get out of things.

Oh, I'm ADD. Oh, I'm XYZ. And you can see they're using it in a way that I think they think it's to their advantage, but you can see clearly this is like really limiting this person. I also think it's become much more common now than it was before, like when I was a kid, right? Because of the diagnoses. The diagnosis has become more common, taking children's therapies much more common. Like instead of like kind of like, kind of, instead of just kind of like figuring it out

on your own and like just kind of, you know, understand or trying to create coping skills and coping mechanisms by going through challenges and difficult times. The go-to now is like, oh, I'm going to take my kid to a therapist and let them deal with it and then talk it through and talk it out and talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Too much talking, too much of this emotional ability to kind of like keep on feeling your feelings. Especially going into the past as well. A lot of times they'll go into the past and they'll say, well, why are you this way and why are you that way?

And it goes back and it's, you know, you're talking about something that happens when you're three. No, but I'm talking about these kids who are super young, like who are not even like, they're prepubescent kids who are like, are in therapy like once to five times, once to three times a week, like to feel their feelings, which I really believe is the opposite of what you should be doing. Like I think when you feel your feelings to that extent,

it actually could be detrimental. And it also ends up making the kid ruminate on these things and problems that they may have versus just like kind of like moving through them. Because at that age, like, yeah, you'll have a problem, but if you're not focused on it, the kid will eventually focus on something else or do something else,

as opposed to just this hyper-focus on what your issue is and who you are, badly or not badly. People are just too, I guess it's part of the culture we're in, which is this caudal culture of like, you're so scared of doing X and Y, and so you just bring in like an expert or a therapist, or you know, you don't want,

you want to give them a safe space, or you don't like that trigger and all these things. I think it speaks really, when you're talking about kids, it looks like the kid is the one with the problem, but really it speaks to the fact that the parent is the one with the problem. The parent has, has, is getting exacerbated, has given up, doesn't know the solution to the problem. And I don't think 99% of the parents I know are doing what they think is best for the kid. They just feel like they've run out of options. So I think it's really more about,

it says more about the parent than it does about the actual child. So again, though, the other thing I think is interesting is like therapy is expensive. So is this kind of just like, is it like a first world problem? It's like, Hey, you know, I have excess money. I'm just going to throw, throw it to a therapist for two, $300 because let's not even talk about the fact that no one takes insurance anymore. That's a whole other problem, right? Like no one is taking insurance. So this is all out of pocket expenses usually. And so like, yeah,

if you have the extra money, like why not? I'll just do that. But the average Joe doesn't have two, 300 bucks to throw to therapists for their kids. Which might be beneficial because then they don't dwell on these problems. They just feel, well, you're going to have to just get on with your life. And that in some situations, in many situations, it's probably the best thing to do. That's exactly what I think. I mean, like, I don't know, like I really keep on saying this, but I feel like I belong

in a different era at a different time. Like I want to go back to living in 1996. I do too. I do too. You know what I mean? And where, you know, I just, I was forced to be bored. No one was like over scheduling my life. And I wasn't told I have to go see a therapist because I'm emotionally like, irregularly, when it's just me being mad that I didn't get the toy I wanted, right? Or whatever it is. I think like, less is more.

Yeah. You know? Yeah, for sure. But just to kind of wrap up on this ADD thing, I find that interesting because it's not just kids. I also think it's obviously adults. Yeah. And even I said, oh yeah, I think I have ADD.

Like I said, I'm self-diagnosed, but I always, I want to really kind of hammer home the point that I think whoever you are, whatever you have, you can make that work for yourself and make that your superpower. So if you are somebody who, you know, does have ADD and like has trouble focusing, you know, that can work to your advantage too. Like everything can work to your advantage. Definitely. It's all about how you frame it in your head and how you reframe it, right? Like nobody's better

or worse than anybody. The only thing that actually actually like makes the difference or like moves the needle is action, like taking action, doing something. Yeah, definitely. 100%. You always want to validate who you are and what you are and accept it. And then you're going to be in your power. And then you're going to be able to, you're going to do things differently from everyone's going to be different. But this idea that like I'm this way and that's bad, you know, nobody, I don't think that anybody thrives from that. I think whatever you are, if you're ADD, whatever, and we're talking about it like loosely, clinically ADD necessarily, but like, we're not doctors. It's just like what we're seeing in like societal, you know, and in social media and all the things.

But it is, I mean, we know about like TikTok brain and stuff like that. We do know that social media is hijacking the dopamine system and making people more ADD. And like, I don't think anyone is debating that. So as a society, we are becoming more ADD. Well, that's funny you say that because it's true. I think that even if we aren't some, we were not, we may have not been that way, but our brains have become so used to like these instant gratifications, no delayed gratification, instant hits of dopamine.

Where we're Without working for it. So in nature, you would have to work for every reward you got. You wouldn't, you'd very rarely get like a big, fast dopamine hit without having to like put in some effort, which I know you're all about effort, right? Yeah, I am. You're all about striving and being bold and taking action towards something and not just having things delivered to you on a plate. Like we think we want that, but that's not, that's not what we want.

It's not what's good for us to be just delivered something. And that's probably the ultimate first world problem is we are given things too easy, our life is too easy. And so we find a way to make it hard because we, it interferes with our wiring. It interferes with how we were meant to be. We were meant to take action and strive and have delayed gratification. Right.

There's a big mismatch. I think there's a direct correlation between delayed gratification and your ultimate happiness, right? Cause when you have to work for something and like see it through and develop patience, right? And once you get it, you feel so much more satiated and like that you earned it. And it lasts that, that's that satisfaction lasts a lot longer.

Well, I think overall, like the feeling of I, feeling that you earned it versus just got it because it came too easy. You it's like more precious to you. You like actually, I think that you just, you really kind of appreciate it more. Yeah. You work with, you know, a lot of celebrities, like Hollywood types. I don't know. It depends.

I guess I know a few. Have you noticed that that is quite common amongst the Hollywood types? Cause they're very, when I first moved to LA, I worked in Hollywood just a little bit and I observed them. And they're an interesting bunch. Yeah. They're an interesting bunch, but I think maybe there's quite a bit with that because they get so much fame and money and love

and like these unnatural amounts of adoration that we wouldn't again be wired towards. And they get it so fast. And I'm not saying they don't deserve it because a lot of them were going to get rejection after rejection after rejection, you know, like going to casting calls and... No, but most people don't deserve it. And I think that's why most of these people are fucked up. Right.

Is because they have no real sense of reality anymore. Right? It's just like... They do seem quite deluded after a while, especially if you've been famous for a while. For a long time. I think it also depends on when you get famous. If you get famous really early on in life, it's really a problem. Yeah. Because then- You grew up with that. You grew up with that fame. And so it distorts your idea of what's real. Michael Jackson or-

Right. Like Britney Spears, Michael Jackson. I mean, these people have had like crazy experiences with life because it's so pseudo reality. It's not real. If you're somebody who worked really hard and had a lot of failure and had to be resilient and had to kind of get back up over and over again. And so then when you finally found success, when they finally found success, it really meant something. Those people are much more normal. So that speaks, I think that speaks again, sorry. I think that speaks again to what you were saying about like validating where you're at. Like if someone is not, hasn't made it in whatever avenue they're talking about, whether it's business or a relationship or family or fitness or whatever it is, money,

the fact that it's taking a lot longer for them could actually be a good thing. It is a good thing. Cause like we just finished saying, like instant gratification, if you just like, if you came out to LA and you hit the first movie you got, like you came off the boat or the bus from Ohio

and you got the first movie or first gig and then boom, you're super famous, it's probably not so great for your psyche, right? But if you actually got here and like you like tried out for a movie, you didn't get it and then you're like, oh shit, okay, I gotta go through the grind and I have to do all these auditions and I have to get, I have to be rejected over and over and over again when you finally get the opportunity and you succeed, you're like, wow. And you appreciate it more. But I will say there's something to be said for people who, like, who are like a

glutton for punishment also, right? Like you must, I think there are different types, right? There are people who just want to be famous for the sake of being famous. Cause they like, they think it's glamorous, which are like a whole other group of people that I don't really have much to do with. But then there are other people who are truly like really talented and like they've honed their craft, they work on their craft, they like practice, they have like coaches and all these things to get better.

That's like a different mindset, right? You're saying there's a difference between people who's obsessed with their craft versus obsessed with the results and the rewards of the craft. I think the people who are doing it for the right reasons, who they become, it's very different than the people who just do it for fame. The problem is anybody can be famous today, right? Like if you have a big social media account, I know a lot of these people who just like buy 10 million followers, right?

And then they leverage this fake number to become famous. And like they have like a whole team around this whole facade that's not even real. And then people don't do their homework and they think, oh, this person, this girl has really 11 million followers. Okay, I'll give her this or I'll let her into that. And they get access to things that they otherwise wouldn't have got access to. But they didn't, not only did they not earn it, they bought it. And then they're working the system.

Yeah. Which is cheating the system. They're totally cheating the system. But this is the world we're living in now. Like anybody can do that. That's kind of what we're talking about in general. My philosophy on basically all problems is that there's a mismatch between how we were meant to be, how we're naturally wired and our environment. And that's the same mental health problems, the same physical health problems, the same way. But I think all of that is really, all these issues come from trying to kind of cheat the system.

Like again, try to get rewards for not doing the work in the first place. Right, they're all hacks. These are all like hacks, like you know, not bio hacks, but kind of like these like life hacks that you're doing. Like life hacks are kind of like cheating the system, right? Because you're trying to like find these shortcuts into getting from point A to point B. And that might be a hollow victory. Maybe you're not prepared for that level of success. Maybe you're not going to be able to sustain that.

So, like here comes the other, we can go on about this. That most, a lot of people don't care because they don't have the self-awareness to know any different. So, you know, they don't mind hollow victories because they're hollow. Right. Right. So then it comes down to like, right? Like we could go, this is like a rabbit hole, right. But like, I find all of it to be just where we're going as a society in this way is not the right way. No, it's not, but definitely like people to be truly happy and fulfilled. No, clearly not. Clearly not. I mean, if you look at younger, younger people, it's, it's, it's depressing

how much they're depressed, how easily they're depressed, how anxious they are and how it's kind of a horrible thing to say about them, but how weak they are. You know, to a lot, to a large degree when you, but you do soft, fragile, snowflakes, yada, yada, yada. I just did last Friday, I did a Ted talk. It's not out yet, or maybe it will be out by the time we do this, by the time this is loaded about how we are breeding a generation of soft, fragile people.

Like Gen Z is much more fragile than our generation was because we're not giving them the tools to be strong mentally or otherwise. And it is going to be the demise of our society and culture and life because of this problem. And we're feeding into the problem unless we put a stop to it. I think that social media, I think that screens, I think both of those social media and screen are the main culprits. I think ca coddle culture is a major problem when we are brainwashing too.

Like I feel like they have next to, again, I'm being harsh and there's, there's definitely smart kids out there, but a lot of them seem to have no critical thinking capability whatsoever. And we'll just literally eat whatever's in front of them. You know, well only because we're, they're being told like they're on tick tock, they're on, they're on Instagram, and they are looking at these influencers and they think, oh, this person says that eating this is what's going to get me to the goal I want, or that's what they're doing.

It's cool. Like that Bieber shake, you know, that $25 shake that everyone One that Hailey Bieber has. You know what? I'm thinking to myself, who can afford a $25 shake? Right? Like it's expensive. That's crazy expensive. Especially because the type of person who's going to be drinking it shouldn't have that, you know, it probably doesn't have that. Well, number one is all sugar, but that's a whole other problem. But like for 25 bucks, you can go get like a real amazing meal at like a nice restaurant.

For two. For two. I can get a great chicken kebab, I can get salad, I can get my potato. But no, people are going and they're, by the way, they're going there in droves. It's not like it's like, you know, straggling in one at a time. There is a lineup. I'm like, I can't make this up. Like no matter what time I go to Arrow 1, like I won't even shop there.

It's at a principal alone. But I'll drive by. I don't get who shops there. I mean, if you're going to pick up one or two things, we'll get lunch. I understand. But like who's doing that grocery shopping at Era One? Okay. By the way, have you been to Era One? I have. From time to time. Yeah. Okay. I will tell you. We're packed every time we go. Packed?

Yeah. I'm talking in the morning. I'm talking late at night. I'm talking in the middle of the afternoon. Who has the money to spend on that place? I'm a working person and I still feel like it's so crazy expensive that I can't afford it, okay? You see the people who go there, they're like young girls. They're like young boys. They're like people who don't even look at they have jobs. They're like, look at they do yoga all day or have no job. They look homeless and they're going into the store and there's lineups.

I'm talking like lineups at the, at the, like the, the hot food area lineups to get that Bieber smoothie lineup to buy fruits that are like, you know, like kind of the price of what they would be at literally any other, no, no, no, you don't understand. They aren't. Okay. I prop, I went there, a friend, I went there and I had to get bone broth that was like $25 for like a bowl of bone broth that like, by the way, it's like bones and water. Yeah. I literally made it this morning.

I bet you cost like seven cents. Yeah, something like that. Everything there is so ridiculously expensive. You would think, you would think that they were giving you, giving away gold in the food or like there was like some kind of like, what is it? Is it like a sort of just mob mentality? Like a hysteria? No, it's trendy. It's trendy. People see it on TikTok and they see some famous person who's drinking something. That's a huge thing. I feel like the trend, like their, their like propensity towards whatever the trend is. That's what I'm saying.

Like I don't think they even care. It's like, Oh, the cool kids are doing it. I want you to go to Arrow One and try that Bieber shake. You as a fitness person like me, if you see the ingredients- I'm more of an animal based one, but I'll try the Bieber one. It's literally a bunch of sugar. If Arrow One pay me to do it. No, they're not going to pay you. They're probably going to like ban this pond test. No, I was going to say that if you saw the ingredients and all the things, they put the

word organic in front of like an ingredient. Which itself is a little bit of a scam. It is a scam, but we'll get into that after. But the point is you put organic bee pollen and people are like, oh, it's healthy. I'm going to go get that organic sugar. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to run and that organic sugar. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to run and get, get the shake.

You, I'm telling you, you would have to stand in line for 20 minutes for this stupid shake. It is so beyond anything. Yeah. It's all sugar. I didn't like it, but you put Haley Bieber's name on a shake and all of a sudden it's like, it's the most popular thing. It's like people are so crazy.

And that's business though. Like I always kind of, I always get into these things and I flip it like I'm thinking from a business perspective. Good for Error One. If you're Error One, that's what, that's your job in America. They are genius. By the way, I want the founders of Error One to come on this podcast, even though I trashed you, because brilliant. Brilliant. Because, but we're living in a-

I don't get how they do it. I don't get why it works, but that is a brilliant business. I'll tell you how it works. You overprice everything. People find that there's value if they're paying too much for it. If you underprice something or whatever, people think that like, ah, it's not worth it as much. Like even for trainers, right? If I put a price tag on me that says I'm $500 an hour,

it's the perception of value. Oh, if she's $500 an hour, she must be really good versus that $80 an hour trainer at LA Fitness. He can't be as good when it's just all fucking lies. It's all perception is reality, but perception is actually not reality. It's also a status thing. I think people, one of the things that people like makes human behavior look more complex than it is, is disregarding like basic human nature that we want to have status. Like the thing that most people want more than anything else is to be high status. Like more than their health.

They would sacrifice their health to be high status. Here, I'm going to give you the equation to how like mob mentality works, right? It is have a really famous influencer, right? Drink the Hayley Bieber smoothie, right? Walking around in yoga pants, right? Put that on two to seven reels. And next thing you know, someone's gonna see it and their friend's gonna tell their friend,

their friend's gonna tell their friend. Next thing you know, that becomes a trending product and everyone will drive there in droves. Now they did the same thing with Il Paseo. Do you know Il Paseo, the restaurant on Cannon? It became massively, it was always very popular, but it like hit its tipping point when on TikTok, a couple of famous people were shown eating lunch there.

And all of a sudden people were like, oh, that's the cool place to be. That's like a restaurant where so and so's eating. I want to go there when I come to LA. And so you have tour buses, literally, you know, basically like driving people by the droves to buy around there to take pictures of this restaurant.

Also, they do the same thing with Arrow One, and they're like, oh, why don't we go eat there? And then they go back home and tell their friends back in Ohio or Kansas. And so when they come, they wanna go. And then they're telling all their friends, while this is all happening, people are still posting about it,

like people who are well-known, famous, influencers, celebrities having pictures of their meals at a particular place. And then like, it's like, it becomes like a cumulative effect, right? And that's what happens. Yeah. But you need that starter culture, which starts from like some celebrity endorsement or whatever. I don't think it's a celebrity endorsement. I think endorsements don't work.

Not overt ones, like subtle kind of. It has to look organic, right? It has to look like, oh yeah, I just stopped in to get my smoothie or I'm just having dinner here with my friend. And is that generally the case or is that... I think people usually, I mean, sometimes it's like, it happens, I think it happens, sometimes it happens just kind of... Organically. Organically. But I think a lot of times people have like deals on the side.

You know what I mean? Like deliverables. I'm going to go into your place four times in the next, you know, eight weeks and I will post about it this Valentine's. I will do two stories around it. I will, you know, do do do. Like now people know the value of what social media brings or that type of optic can bring or that type of exposure can bring. And so they want to get paid. It's like, they're going to get paid for it. That's why I like, that's something, the idea and like what, like the word celebrity has really been like morphed and evolved. Like anybody can be famous if they have a big following now on social media. And I'm not talking like a hundred thousand people. I mean, even that could be good, but, and if you

get, if you are somebody who has a lot of engagement with that number, I mean, it's the sky's the limit. You can make millions of dollars a month, literally. From just having lunch. From just having lunch. Yeah. That arrow one. That arrow one.

All right. No, El Paseo for that one. Okay. So let's wrap this up, you guys. All right. No, El Paseo for that one. Okay. So let's wrap this up, you guys. I don't even know. We were like on a tangent. We spoke about like all these random things, but thank you for being here. Thank you.

Thank you for having me. Okay guys, check out Leroy on his Instagram. What's your Instagram? At beyondfitnessla. B E Y O N D F I T N E S S L A. And by the way, we didn't even talk about fitness, so you'll have to wait around. Yeah, we'll do another one on fitness. Yeah, we're going to do one right now.

We'll probably start on fitness and just gloss over it like we always do. Totally true. Okay. See you guys. Bye. Bye.