Habits and Hustle - Episode 452: Henry Abbott on Misogi - The Extreme Challenge With a 50% Chance of Failure

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

Could your brain be the only barrier to achieving incredible feats? In this episode on the Habits and Hustle podcast, I talk with Henry Abbott about Misogi - an annual challenge so intense you believe you have only a 50% chance of completing it. We discuss how these epic challenges can rewire your brain to overcome perceived limitations. We also discuss why movement is crucial for pain management, how our brains (not our bodies) create most of our limitations, and why stepping far outside your comfort zone once a year might be the key to unlocking your hidden potential. Henry Abbott is an award-winning journalist and founder of TrueHoop, a respected basketball media platform. His new book "Ballistic: The New Science of Injury-Free Athletic Performance" explores revolutionary approaches to injury prevention through the science of ballistic movements. What we discuss:  How movement rewires the brain to overcome perceived limitations and pain Misogi and its spread among NBA players The Harvard Fatigue Lab's findings on human physiological limits Finding the balance between boldness and foolishness in physical challenges Thank you to our sponsor: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers.  Bio.me: Link to daily prebiotic fiber here, code Jennifer20 for 20% off.  Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off David: Buy 4, get the 5th free at davidprotein.com/habitsandhustle. To learn more about Henry Abbott:  Website: https://www.henryabbott.com/  https://www.truehoop.com/  X: https://x.com/truehoop?lang=en  Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it! Welcome to Fitness Friday. Today I'm joined by journalist Henry Abbott to explore Misogi, which is a powerful practice where you take on a challenge so tough, there's only a 50% chance you'll finish. Think underwater 5K's with rocks or a 9-hour paddleboard treks through sharky waters. We also talk about the science behind mental limits, Henry's journey through chronic pain, and why pushing to the edge might be exactly what you need to break through. So let's dive in. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan, living better and longer, there are very few non-negotiables.

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LiveMomentous.com. Why do you write about misogi? Do you know about misogi? I do. Do you know where it comes from? Isn't it like, yeah, I do. Do you know? It comes from this guy.

This comes from Marcus. Oh, it does? Yeah. Yeah. You should read that It comes from this guy. This comes from Marcus. Oh, it does? Yeah. Yeah. You should read that chapter. Oh my gosh. Okay. I'm gonna read that chapter. That's the chapter I did not read. And then Kyle Corver.

We'll talk about it. Okay, so when Marcus was in medical school, Harvard Medical School, he and a friend named Garth, who were very outdoorsy and they didn't like being in Boston and they wanted to sort of get back to the country. So they went to the Wind River Range in Montana,

which is extremely high elevation, like 12,000 feet at the low parts and it's very intense. And they were gonna pack almost nothing and catch what they were gonna eat and deal with altitude by just being tough. And like 10 minutes in, that's a slight exaggeration, Garth gets altitude sickness and has to go home. So then, but he's been there lead up, he's been talking to Marcus about how he does all these martial arts. And there's this like Shinto tradition of misogi, where you do it as Garth explained it, which is not totally accurate with the Shinto tradition,

but you once a year you do a challenge that's so intense that you think you're only 50 percent likely to make it. And so Marcus flashed onto it as this idea of a way to get into your capabilities that are beyond what you think they could be. We're held back by our brain a lot of times. A lot of the times, even in like breath holding, you get this panicky feeling of to breathe long before you need oxygen. So you want to defeat that a little bit. And so they've done crazy things. One of the ones was run a 5k on the ocean floor carrying a rock. So if we were partners, I would drop the rock. It's like they do it in like the Channel Islands. So I'd be like 10 feet deep under the waves, drop the rock on the ground, and then you dive down and pick it up and run as far as

you can and then drop it. And then I swim down, pick it up, run as far as you can and then drop it and then I swim down, pick it up, run as far as I can and they do 5k. Or they paddleboarded from the Channel Islands to Santa Barbara, which is nine hours of like wind and sharks and like you know craziness and like nine hours. Or they climbed the height, actually most of them failed this one, they arranged to climb the height of Mount Everest in, I think it's called the US Bancor Tower in LA. Is that what it's called? Something like that. But a skyscraper. A skyscraper. So this idea, why did he do it? So the idea of doing this misogi was basically picking one thing a year that you're doing that is something that you think you have a 50% chance of actually completing, basically.

It's like a super hard challenge. What's the purpose of it? So the purpose of it is to shut your brain up when it tells you you can't do something, right? The purpose of it is to show your brain. Movement is actually interesting in rewiring your brain in terms of limits and also pain. So if you have chronic pain, which is a big topic in the book too, because it's the reason why a lot of us don't move like we want to. I talked to this awesome pain expert, Rachel Zofnus,

who explains basically the way that you convince your body it can do something, where it's sending pain signals, is carefully progressing through more movement. The movement sends the signal back, like no, we're okay doing this. So in doing a misogi, you're telling your body, you're like, you might feel like we can't paddleboard for nine hours, but I'm telling you we can.

I'm showing you we can. We're gonna feel that we can. And then once you've finished that, you kind of have this self-regard where you're like, maybe I can do anything. Right, it's the concept of doing hard things to show and prove to yourself that you can do hard things Yeah, right. So it gives you the confidence to do something again or different, right?

And there aren't they used to have this thing called the Harvard fatigue lab around like World War two where they would just Abuse people and see how much they could take right and they found there's almost no physiological limits like people can deal with like insane amounts of heat or cold or dehydration or whatever. They just can't really find, the limits are in our brain. So, this is where it sounds like kind of trippy, but in writing this and I went to this research, every animal that flies used to not fly, which means there was a first one to fly.

That is trippy, huh? How bad ass is that? Right. And they just like one day means there was like a first one to fly. Like that is trippy, huh? How bad ass is that? Right. And they just like one day an animal was like, hey, I'm going to try to fly. I got this. And then they just started flying. And I think about the lemmings, right? It's like they're all trying, right?

They're all just like, maybe I got it. Maybe I got it. That's so true. Like maybe one day one of them will. So can one day a human could just try to fly. Why don't you just go outside and try to fly? Have you tried? People have those skin suits are getting closer, you know?

You think so? I mean, I don't know, but like I'm not gonna tell them they can't, right? Like I'm gonna leave that up to them. Do you think humans are gonna be able to fly one day? Or not soon, but, but. But if animals can do it. There are things that used to be fish that fly now.

You know what I mean? Like what? I mean, we all evolved from like little sea creatures. That's true. That's true. Yeah, I guess I just, you know. It's limitless to what we can actually achieve. And there's this great study about like, you can see on an MRI in the brain, like a little thing that happens when a thing starts to fly. Like when the first dinosaur started to fly, the skull got a little different to accommodate like this little new brain activity. And I use this for my pizza.

And when a pigeon flies, that same little part of the skull like has this little extra activity of like whatever they have to do to fly. Like I'm guessing that the first step in human flying would be that in our brain, right? We're flying. So this is the misogi to me is like, you can change your brain.

You know, they can put a freaking, I don't know why they chose this thing, but they, like an owl can only survive if it catches mice and stuff, right? And that's why its eyes are like way bigger than ours. Like 30% of their head is eye, and they have better eyes than we do. But they would put like basically goggles or lenses

on the owl so that it was seeing the whole world through a prism and it was like totally screwed up. Now they can't survive, right? But it would take them like two, three days to learn how to catch a mouse looking through that crazy mess. Cause they just like learned a new language. They learned a new way to do it, right?

Wow. And that's like only survival will give you that like crazy burst of learning, right? And I feel like this is what the Masogi is touching a little bit is like, maybe we can do way more than we thought. So is the idea that this place gives tells people that they need to choose and pick a misogi every year so they can then not feel limited by anything and get rid of limited beliefs of themselves?

Great question. So you know how I said this is kind of like learning language? And there's like the two ways, right? There's like drilling with your teacher, doing vocab drills. And then there's like, just move to Quito and see if you can speak Spanish, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in the lab, you pay them, whatever, that's going to be the vocab part.

That's where they're going to assess you and watch you and coach you. Like the outside The lab part is not part of the paid service, right? This is just like that's how Marcus lives his life and a lot of his friends and some a lot of the NBA You know Kyle Corver was an NBA player for a long time He and Marcus became like best friends and that's kind of how Masogi Got out into the world because there was an outside magazine article about Kyle doing his first time with Marcus

I don't know like 10 10, 15 years ago. And so there's like this, you know, that knowledge is out there. Marcus does it all every year. He does misogi. And I think if you want to, you know, his recommendation is somewhere out in nature, not something you practice with friends and not something that's like easily measured. So it's fun to have a kind of amorphous, you know, like we're going to go from here to there or from that mountain to that mountain or whatever it is. something that's easily measured. So it's fun to have a kind of amorphous, we're gonna go from here to there,

or from that mountain to that mountain, or whatever it is. But the problem is if it's something you practice, then you're gonna be thinking the whole time about, well, I know I can run this mile pace, and this many miles, and blah, blah, blah. And he wants you to think, Kyle Corver had never been on paddle board before in his life when he first started to paddle

from the Channel Islands, which means his brain is like massively expansive. Right? He's just like, what am I doing? That's so scary. It's so scary. At some point, someone dropped a chicken burrito in the water and they thought they were gonna have

shark attack and then like there was a, I don't know what a sunfish looks like, but I guess it has a fin that looks like a shark and they all freaked out because there was this like fin in the water. So he did a paddle board without ever doing one before. Yeah. And that's so dangerous though too. Isn't there like a like there's a fine line between being bold and being stupid. They did have a well they had each other they had a little bunch of them but also had a boat of like they could retire if they can jump in the boat. Okay.

Yeah, don't die. That's one of the other rules. Oh, that's another rule. Don't die. Don't die. That's a good one. It's a great one. Yeah.

Yeah, very important. Very important. What else did you learn about pain and how do you're asking today because you're in pain, push through pain? Maybe. Yeah. No, I went through hell while like it was so I'm writing a book about joy of movement. And I went like, I was like on the floor in the dark with like an open bowl

Tylenol. Oh my god. Brother-in-law, I was feeling like, oh, I'm getting better. Like I'm figuring out my stuff. And my brother-in-law popped by his Christmas and he's like, he's like, this is so sad. I'm like seeing it through his eyes, I'm like, yeah, it's super sad. Oh my god, that's hilarious. But so then I did regular PT like all of us would do, but I had to come back out to Senator Barbara to finish writing the book. And when I got out here, they were like, can we just try to help you? Can we assess you? And I had said I didn't want to be part of it

because I don't want to lose my journalistic objectivity or whatever. And finally, I was so desperate, I was like, all right, let's go. And they assessed me on a Friday and put me through a little, I had one session of physical therapy and then just did the workout including that thing

I mentioned with the foot on the floor and weird stuff like a stork press. Look that one up, that's kind of cool. There are a bunch of weird moves I had never done before. Stork press. Okay. Stork press is cool. And then the next day, Marcus, you know, who is a doctor, he's a medical doctor and he knew all of my results. He was like, why don't we go for a hike? And then on the hike, the hike that he took me on in the hills above Santa Barbara, which are so beautiful, we're hopping from rock to rock,

which isn't something I would have been doing. I was in so much pain before, but because he knows what he's talking about, he gave me permission to give it a whirl. And Jen, it was like, first one, I'm like, we'll see how this goes, right? And first one, like, okay. But then my right leg was usually more painful.

So then I'd like, there's a stream and I have to clear it and make it to the next rock. I'm like, I go airborne and I'm just like, this might be murderous when I land. But it was okay. And like, I'm thinking about using my hips more and I'm thinking about the ball of my foot. And then next thing you know, I'm like,

I can do this. And I think that I had, since I had already done the PT, I was ready for this, but I wasn't gonna give myself permission to take that kind of risk. But I needed to move like that. I needed to convince my brain not to send wild pain signals all the time. And it totally fits with the research. At some point, you got to move.

And it's not the day of injury. Well, they say even when even when you get like, to stop moving is like, that's what becomes deadly, right? So like, when I never, I'm like you, I need to move. I'm not someone who does well being sedentary. So even when I have the flu or something, like I have to really feel terrible because movement is, to me anyway, movement is like, it's like life,

right? Like if I have a bad back, even with a bad injury, I still walk to get the blood circulating. Did they teach you that back there? Yeah, well, I sent Mark, there was an article in New York Times like three years ago maybe, which said like basically to cure what else you walk. Yeah. And there's a lot of evidence about this. And so I sent that to Marcus. I wasn't sure what he was gonna say. And he was like, yeah, for like a broad swath of people,

walking will cure a lot, right? A lot of us are so immobile that this counts as. Right. But he's like, but you know, don't you want to do more fun stuff than that? Right, don't you want to learn how to really move? Marcus' take is that basically, if you manage your hips and your ankles and feet well, then

these things will still come up, but they'll just be speed bumps. Right? Rather than being out six months, you'll be out two weeks.